PTFO - Share & Gift & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and David Samson

Summary

Podcast Summary: "PTFO - Share & Gift & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and David Samson"

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz presents a compelling episode featuring Domonique Foxworth and David Samson, delving into the intricacies of organizational culture in professional sports, superstar privileges, and personal struggles with body image. Recorded on December 12, 2024, the episode navigates through candid conversations, insightful debates, and personal anecdotes, providing listeners with a rich exploration of both professional and personal landscapes.

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1. Organizational Culture and Superstar Privilege

The episode kicks off with host Pablo Torre introducing a critical discussion on organizational culture within professional sports, anchored by the recent high-profile acquisition of Juan Soto by the New York Mets. Torre references reporting by John Heyman, highlighting the Mets' unprecedented $760 million over 15 years deal with Soto, which notably included a luxury suite—an element the New York Yankees were unwilling to budge on.

David Samson challenges the notion that suite inclusion influenced Soto's decision to join the Mets, stating:

"No player that I've ever negotiated with had it as a dispositive moment... It's absurd." [05:39]

He emphasizes that such perks are typically handled through riders and not as central negotiating points. Dominique Foxworth expands the conversation by emphasizing the importance of maintaining organizational culture and the potential repercussions of bending on core principles:

"Once you start to bend on those things you are a bit like compromising the culture." [07:03]

This segment explores the delicate balance between rewarding star players and preserving a consistent, principled team environment. The discussion transitions into historical examples, such as how Steve Cohen’s flexibility contrasted with the Yankees’ rigidity, underscoring varying management styles in handling superstar talent.

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2. Cultural Differences Across Sports

The conversation shifts to compare cultures across different sports—baseball, football, basketball, and hockey. Foxworth highlights how each sport's unique culture affects team dynamics and privilege distribution:

"I think the broader point ... is about what's acceptable and what's not acceptable." [07:03]

Samson recounts experiences from baseball, noting that while certain privileges (like accommodating family members) were granted, they seldom impacted team culture positively:

"I had to give a roster spot to his brother, Wilton Guerrero... absolutely not." [12:34]

In contrast, Foxworth discusses the structured and team-oriented nature of football, where organizational protocols minimize special treatment and maintain a level playing field among players. This distinction underscores how different sports prioritize team cohesion versus individual accolades.

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3. Superstar Privilege as a Zero-Sum Game

Pablo Torre introduces the concept of superstar privilege as a zero-sum game, where granting special privileges to one player inherently affects others. Samson provides insights from his tenure as a baseball team president, emphasizing the challenges in managing roster spots and the financial implications of rewarding star players:

"There are only so many of these that can be given out. And so someone is actively not getting something if the super duper, Duper star is getting it." [11:31]

Foxworth echoes these sentiments, discussing the potential conflicts that arise when teams prioritize star player needs over the collective good, illustrating with examples like Giannis Antetokounmpo’s brother contributing positively to team culture despite not being a high performer.

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4. Personal Struggles: Body Dysmorphia and Weight Issues

Transitioning to more personal narratives, Pablo Torre introduces a sensitive topic about microdosing weight loss medications, leading to a heartfelt discussion on body image and mental health. David Samson bravely shares his battle with body dysmorphia and anorexia:

"Yes, I have always... I think about what I look like, how I feel. I'm very hyper aware of every little thing that happens." [28:56]

He elaborates on his struggles, detailing how his condition was exacerbated by the high-pressure environment of managing a professional sports team:

"I would run 20 miles and purposely not eat the entire day." [29:27]

Foxworth supports Samson, emphasizing the pervasive nature of body image issues, especially among men who are often less publicly acknowledged for such struggles:

"We're all public figures because of social media... kids and adults going through this, and it sucks." [32:00]

This segment underscores the hidden battles many face, highlighting the importance of open conversations and support systems in combating mental health issues.

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5. Holiday Traditions: Best and Worst Gifts

Embracing the festive spirit, the trio shifts to lighter topics, sharing personal anecdotes about holiday gift-giving. Samson recounts receiving the same desk set for three consecutive years during his school days, expressing his frustration with the lack of personalization:

"It's just lack of knowing me or lack of paying attention. Lack of care." [38:10]

In contrast, Foxworth reminisces about meaningful childhood gifts, such as the excitement of receiving a coveted Sega Genesis console, illustrating the profound impact thoughtful gifts can have. Torre humorously admits to being a "self-gifter" and shares buying an Apple Vision Pro, which he quickly regifted to his son. This exchange highlights the complexities and personal reflections associated with gift-giving practices.

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6. Concluding Revelations and Reflections

As the episode wraps up, each participant shares their personal revelations from the conversation. Foxworth humorously acknowledges Torre's intellectual prowess:

"I found out that the depths of Pablo's content brain know no floor." [45:59]

Samson highlights Foxworth's competitive nature:

"I found out that the depth of Dominique's competitive nature knows no bounds." [46:06]

The trio engages in playful banter, reinforcing the camaraderie and mutual respect that underpin their professional interactions.

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Notable Quotes

• David Samson on Player Privileges:

  "No player that I've ever negotiated with had it as a dispositive moment... It's absurd." [05:39]

• Dominique Foxworth on Organizational Culture:

  "Once you start to bend on those things you are a bit like compromising the culture." [07:03]

• Samson on Body Dysmorphia:

  "Yes, I have always... I think about what I look like, how I feel. I'm very hyper aware of every little thing that happens." [28:56]

• Samson on Worst Gifts:

  "It's just lack of knowing me or lack of paying attention. Lack of care." [38:10]

• Foxworth on Meaningful Gifts:

  "We're all public figures because of social media... kids and adults going through this, and it sucks." [32:00]

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz offers a nuanced exploration of the challenges inherent in managing professional sports teams, particularly regarding superstar privileges and maintaining organizational culture. Simultaneously, it provides a deeply personal look into struggles with body image, fostering a space for vulnerability and understanding. Through engaging dialogues and personal stories, hosts and guests alike illuminate the multifaceted nature of success, privilege, and personal well-being in the high-stakes world of professional sports.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You a side piece surprise.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[David Sampson]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[Pablo Torre]

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[David Sampson]

I have a sandwich that I had to custom build myself, which I did.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Are you. Are you talking about making a sandwich? Do you call it a custom bill? When was the last time you fed yourself?

[Pablo Torre]

Yo, check out the build on this sandwich.

[David Sampson]

I did custom build the sandwich and I can't test it and look at it because of our delay. I've been sitting in place for 15 minutes waiting, and I could have gotten the order myself and checked to make sure that it was right. And now I have to think about it through this entire show, which also does not make my brain happy. You're not catching me in a great moment.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Oh, man. What'd you get? What's your custom bill?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, what do we got? Can we guess? Can we guess? I bet. What? He has little faith in our ability to predict David Sampson's whims. Dominique.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I think he got A lunchable.

[Pablo Torre]

You got, you got, you got a ham, you got a cheese, you got a little, a little Capri sun.

[Dominique Foxworth]

He's not going to eat ham.

[David Sampson]

Oh, I said literally never religious. Am in my life religious reason.

[Pablo Torre]

That's on me.

[David Sampson]

And I am despondent right now.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, that's on me.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You don't seem like a tuna guy.

[David Sampson]

Certainly not from a store or restaurant.

[Pablo Torre]

No, a store or restaurant where the you getting your tuna?

[Dominique Foxworth]

You gotta.

[David Sampson]

I'll make my own tuna.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Which. You got the tuna from a store?

[David Sampson]

No, no, I will make tuna from a can with Miracle Whip and Dijon mustard and green onion and avocado and cucumber. I will make that. Obviously always water and you drain it, but I will never order tuna in a restaurant.

[Pablo Torre]

The sandwich so far sounds like it's going to be terrible.

[David Sampson]

It's amazing. You just haven't figured out what it is.

[Pablo Torre]

David, you want to make the big reveal? What's, what's the big reveal?

[David Sampson]

It's turkey with Dijon mustard, lettuce, brie, cheddar, onion, cucumber, jalapeno.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Oh, I see. That's a build. Yeah, I didn't realize criticism.

[Pablo Torre]

That is the work of a structural engineer.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That's a build. God damn.

[David Sampson]

I told you I don't lie to you guys.

[Pablo Torre]

And that in some ways is its own concern. The share and tell topic I brought with both of you guys is this Juan Soto topic. And there is a part of the John Heyman reporting on this. He's the guy who's been on top of all of this. He tends to be on top of Scott Boris represented athletes, if you've been paying attention to the game within the game. But he has great color on this story, David. And so I just want to read a part of the reporting. Of course, Juan Soto, now a New York Met. They outbid the New York Yankees. The Mets paid $760 million over 15 years, a record price. All that stuff is true. But it seems like one thing the Yankees would not budge on, which was startling to me, was the inclusion of a suite, a luxury suite. Quote, the Yankees felt they couldn't give a suite to Soto as part of this deal. When Judge Aaron Judge pays for his suite, and even Derek Jeter paid, they were willing to discount a suite but not alter their precedent. Meanwhile, Steve Cohen, one of the 100 richest men in the world, apparently, quote, didn't give the suite much of a thought. When he has his eyes on a prize, he is singularly focused. And so Juan Soto got The super duper duper star treatment. And it made me think about the ways in which there is in fact levels of superstar treatment and gifts and benefits and privileges. And both of you guys happen to have, I would say, personal viewpoints, I assume informed by your roles in your past lives.

[David Sampson]

Let's first say that it was 765 over 15. Let's then say that there is no scenario under which Juan Soto chose the Mets because there was a suite included in the deal. The way these deals are negotiated is that you get to the rider after which is season tickets or suite on the road, meaning a hotel room, whether or not you pay for that or whether you have the player pay for the difference between a regular room in the suite, when there's season tickets, where the location is for the player's family, whether it's in the regular family section or elsewhere, all of that is extra stuff. No player that I've ever negotiated with had it as a dispositive moment. You're not including the sweets. It's absurd. And by the way, last thing on this, if the Yankees really were competing to win, all they had to do was gross up the amount that they were paying Soto and tell Soto to buy the sweet and Soto would have been at par. Gross up meaning the price of the sweet each year. You can even include what the taxes would have been on that. I've been grossing up people forever. It is normal. So it's thank you. I handed that to you. I'm so glad that you're paying attention because you're not on your phone. So I don't buy into this notion that that went into the decision making process.

[Dominique Foxworth]

But I think the broader point that you that I think is probably interesting about this conversation is not this specific negotiation, but superstar treatment. And the what I took out of this particular article was I feel very strongly about organizational culture. And I think part of setting a culture of an organization, particularly in professional sports, is about making it clear what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And I tend to believe that those things are non negotiable because once you start to bend on those things you are a bit like compromising the culture. And I think I've defined organizational culture for a bunch of different people a bunch of different times because I think in sports we talk about culture a lot and we rarely understand it.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it feels vague and fluffy, but.

[David Sampson]

They are till they're not. Dominique, because I never gave a no trade clause for a long term deal ever until Giancarlo Stanton and it was a deal breaker for him and we gave him a no trade clause. So everything is principled and everything's culture until it's not. Until Barry Bonds wants a recliner and you say, come on, nobody has a recliner. Hey, I'm Barry Bonds, all right, we're getting the recliner for you.

[Dominique Foxworth]

A no trade clause is different from recliner. I think a recliner is a better example. But I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm. I'm saying. So first of all, I think it's important to, to like, define what culture is in an organization. And I think it's like the acceptable processes and behaviors, and those are different from organization to organization. And I think the recliner point is more interesting. The no trade clause to me doesn't bleed into a culture of organization that's just like. I mean, maybe you seem to disagree. Go ahead.

[David Sampson]

I do, Dominique, because think about that. As a player, you're paying attention, you know, contractual provisions of all of your teammates. And if we give an advantage to one teammate in the guarantee provision that we didn't give to another, they know it in about 45 seconds.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And so maybe that's different in MLB than, than in football, but I didn't feel that way at all. But I mean, it's. I think it's fair to say that all of your decisions and all of your actions impact your culture to some degree. Some of them, some of them are negligible, and some of them are enormous. And I think you're willing to bend on the negligible ones for players who are worth it. The question is, are you going to bend on the big ones? That's where this, the rubber meets the road in a conversation about Juan Soto or about any organizational culture.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it's interesting though, that Dominique's brain went to a place where mine did, which was. There is something, though, about the furniture that you have to see every day. There's something, David, famously. Barry Bonds had the double wide locker as well. You know, like there is a list of examples throughout sports history. I mean, Giannis Antetokounmpo, you might say that Thanosis, his brother, just being around him, getting the other deal like. So is that a benefit? Like an extra wide double locker on the outside?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Absolutely, yes. Having a whole roster spot reserved for your brother. But the funny thing is, anytime you talk to anybody about the NASA's Antetokounmpo, and I interviewed him for my show, that's more highly rated than yours. How dare you. And anytime you talk to anybody about him, they talk about how he was the one who helped to instill and institute the culture of the team that was celebrated when someone was slacking. Even though Thanasis wasn't a high producer, he was the one that would call them to the carpet when someone had to say something to Giannis. He was the one who did it. And even though he wasn't a great player, I think I find that incredibly interesting because I would see that as the ultimate. Yeah, it's similar to, like, how right now people see the Bronny situation. It's like, oh, well, this organization isn't serious about winning if they're giving a roster spot to a family member. But it's funny because obviously I'm not on that team. But anyone who you talk to who's been on that team and even guys who are gone now who have no reason to, like, protect him, would say that, no, he was important to the culture of this team.

[Pablo Torre]

What I find so interesting, David, also just to sort of characterize this, it's interesting to think about this as a zero sum game, right? Like, in terms of real estate roster spots, there are only so many of these that can be given out. And so someone is actively not getting something if the super duper, Duper star is getting it. And your view, in terms of a guy who had to worry about, okay, here's the payroll, here's the composition of the clubhouse. Your view was how. How often was that challenged by this privilege?

[David Sampson]

Almost every year. So the two examples in, in sports or baseball is when you're drafting someone internationally from the Dominican, and the Busconi wants you to take the kid's brother, the kid's cousin, and the kid's second cousin, and you give, you know, 50 grand to each of them just because you want to spend 800 grand to get the good player. And so you're willing to take on all the extra stuff. And it goes all the way to the big leagues, where with Vladimir Guerrero, we had to give a roster spot to his brother, Wilton Guerrero. We even got Wilton Guerrero through arbitration because Vladimir, which is Vladimir Guerrero Junior's father, Vladimir Guerrero, senior Hall of Famer, he had his brother and mother with him in Montreal. They lived together, they ate meals together, and Wilton was part of the package. And so for us, it was necessary until he became too expensive because he was getting service time and not really all that productive.

[Pablo Torre]

And how was he on the culture? How was was he thanos like, in terms of impacting the culture of your clubhouse?

[David Sampson]

Absolutely not. And it's an amazing thing, what you're saying, Dominique. I had not heard that before. That's a position I would not still value in terms of a roster spot in basketball where there's so few of them. My growing up, there were 11, I think now there's 15 or 16. It's still not very many. That's an amazing piece of real estate. And the whole Bronny thing, don't even get me started.

[Pablo Torre]

The Lakers, yeah.

[David Sampson]

And they don't want.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't want to relitigate Bronny, but, Dominique, as somebody who played in the league, how obvious was it on the teams you played for that actually there were guys who were getting stuff that you guys could not dream of getting.

[David Sampson]

Yeah.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I mean, so football is kind of different in that there's the quarterbacks and then there's everybody else, and there's the good quarterbacks and then there's everybody else. I never played on a team with, like, a Hall of Fame quarterback, but there is something about. And this is a broader cultural thing. There's something about the culture of football that's very different from some. From basketball, I don't know. Baseball culture nearly as well, or hockey culture. But basketball culture, I feel like I know pretty well. And it's very. The hierarchy in basketball culture is obviously very clear and such that it's understood and not bucked against. And there's no shame. There's almost like, pride in being that guy who can. Who can subvert the rules and who can show up late.

[Pablo Torre]

And Joel Embiid, I was going to say, like, famously just got in trouble because Tyrese Maxey was calling him out, allegedly, reportedly, for having the temerity to show up and treat time as a construct.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Was it mitigated or unmitigated?

[Pablo Torre]

It seems like it was increasingly mitigated.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I know that's a thing, and you hear it about all types of great players who have success in football. On the other hand, I've been on teams where guys obviously had, like, some special treatment, but it was minimally special. Like, they didn't have the suite in the hotel when we traveled. They didn't show up. They showed up to meetings five minutes early, just like everyone else. And there's a very, like, team oriented thing about football players where it's like, the one thing I remember my rookie year. I'm sorry. Go ahead, David.

[David Sampson]

Do you know what your teammates have when you're traveling?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah.

[David Sampson]

So you just said that with some certainty. Do you Get a room list with the actual room numbers of the players in where they are in the hotel.

[Dominique Foxworth]

No, but I mean, I know where everybody is staying. So there's a table put out with all the keys on it with all the numbers on it. The team is pretty big. And then you end up on the same floor as certain guys. Like I've had rooms next to the star players on the teams before. And you guys ever get to go.

[Pablo Torre]

Do you guys ever do a joining room slumber party?

[Dominique Foxworth]

No, we never did a joining room slumber party.

[Pablo Torre]

I would do a joining room.

[David Sampson]

You have roommates early on 30, 40 years ago, players in baseball, they would room with a teammate in a double room. Now the keys are on the table. Dominique. But there's numbers. They put the number. But often it's with names. That's not, not the real names. They check in under fake names. But you know that if you've got the same last two numbers as the team president, you know that's a suite. And so we would fool around with what we do with certain envelopes so that players wouldn't know who has the suite.

[Dominique Foxworth]

We didn't have that situation. I imagine that some people and also didn't really care. I think that that competitiveness wasn't there. And also like I mentioned, like there was bed check. Like that was one thing some people would have bed check. And we thought at first, when we first got there, everybody had bed check. But of course, like nobody was going into the 32 year old starting quarterback's room and saying, are you there at 11 o'clock? So there. But they were there at 11 o'clock. It was like these. We only travel, but so many times. So those were the things that were slightly different. I will say that the big advantage that I remember was my rookie year. We were 13 and three, we won in San Diego on New Year's Eve at the Chargers. And we were headed to the flight, headed to the plane because we fly back immediately. Headed to the plane to fly back home. We'd won the division and it was New Year's Eve and Champ was like, we should go to Vegas.

[Pablo Torre]

This is Champ Bailey, greatest cornerback, arguably of all time.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Don't argue it, it's a fact. And he was like, we should go to Vegas. And I was like, huh? Okay, tomorrow. He's like, no, from here. I'll go ask coach. I'll see if you can come too. And he said, I'll go ask coach. And so he got a private jet. We went from San Diego to Vegas And I'm celebrated New Year's Eve on the rooftop at T between the prime minister of a Caribbean nation and Britney Spears, if I remember correctly.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, where's the button that I can press?

[Pablo Torre]

That's great.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Like, there's no way that anyone else said, can I stay in this city or can I go to Vegas? That coach would have said, yeah, get your ass on that plane. And would any of us ask no? It's absurd. But Champ, that's the one thing that I knew that I witnessed in my first year. But from then on, I never really saw it happen much after that. Like, every now and then, someone would stay if they. We played in their hometown, someone would stay to be with their family and then come back on Wednesday by the Urban Meyers style.

[Pablo Torre]

You're saying nothing. Urban Meyer stay over?

[Dominique Foxworth]

No.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, when you're the coach of the Jaguars, maybe go to the restaurant that has your name in it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Never do anything Urban.

[Pablo Torre]

You've no room for the Holy Ghost. David, when you're the president of a baseball team, how much were you saying no to stuff in the flow of a season, when it came to special.

[David Sampson]

Treatment, there were more no's than yeses. But baseball, the baseball season just has a different rhythm than the football season. You're playing 162 games in 185 days, and that's after 30 spring training games in 34 days. So it is just the grind of the season that the staying in cities later, that rarely comes up because there's so few off days during the season. But there's stuff that. Other stuff is where the permission comes. It's in the clubhouse. It's special treatment for guests. It's location of seats. It's things like that that come up hotel rooms.

[Pablo Torre]

What's the most absurd ask, given this array of possibilities that you hated to get, because it felt like way over the line, but was very common to.

[David Sampson]

Have a player take both a wife and a girlfriend on a family trip on the plane. That's.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That's amazing.

[David Sampson]

That would. That was the end of our families traveling with the team.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait a minute. So just to spell that out, we.

[David Sampson]

Had a whole set of rules. Pablo, you want to find out? We had a whole set of rules that I developed with Larry Bindfest about what relationship was required to travel with the team on a family trip. And I said, this is. I can't deal with this.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, you developed a citizenship test for someone's relationship? What was the criteria? What were some of the criteria?

[David Sampson]

I needed proof of wedding I didn't want engagement. I didn't want. I needed proof. I'm talking, like, proof of wedding.

[Pablo Torre]

Engagement wasn't enough?

[David Sampson]

No. No engagement.

[Pablo Torre]

You need paperwork.

[David Sampson]

I want paperwork.

[Dominique Foxworth]

So that. Again, this is a different.

[Pablo Torre]

You said I want paperwork with a level of just arousal there that I just.

[David Sampson]

No, it's a pain in the ass, Pablo, to deal with this. It really was not fun. The traveling secretary would come to me and talk about the layout of where rooms are in the hotel because where players were. This is such a bigger deal than people would think. You have to have girlfriends in a different place than wives. Different floors, different parts of the stadium where people are sitting. Certain family members don't sit near each other. It's a whole McGill.

[Dominique Foxworth]

We're talking girlfriends. So, like, I could understand wives not wanting to be with girlfriends, but we're not talking about wives and girlfriends of the same player.

[David Sampson]

Yes, we are.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Okay. Yeah. No, I mean, we had that situation on our teams also in the travel sector, but it's only eight home games. The travel secretary, you could. I mean, I remember guys having to put people in different spots, and then that becomes an argument, because there is one spot where you get access to friends and family, like the little backstage area. And then if you don't get access to that, you recognize that you a side piece. Surprise, surprise. I'm in a 300 level.

[Pablo Torre]

Customs stopped you.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And I'm outside. Oh, I don't get the wristband this week.

[Pablo Torre]

This is incredible.

[David Sampson]

Dominique, this is all true, and I love that you're backing me on this. And now picture 81 home games.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, that's. That sounds.

[David Sampson]

And picture a stadium that's not full. It's a total nightmare.

[Dominique Foxworth]

We are. We are far, far away from the building championship culture now. Just, like, just staying afloat. Hopefully we don't have a fight in the stands between wives and girlfriends. That is a lot. The biggest benefit, I think, to, like, the star players was also a benefit to the team for us in football, because football practice is intense. And so that was the thing that stood out where we were like, damn, must be nice. You ain't got to practice today. And it was, one, because they had enough credibility, they knew they would be fine, but two, because their bodies were breaking down. So it was like, it's kind of a special dispensation, but it also was like, we need you on Sunday, so how about you chill out on Wednesday? Thursday, Friday, we give you some drugs on Sunday morning, and you go play. And then you recover next week by watching film and not practicing.

[David Sampson]

Right? Yeah. That's a whole nother thing, is trying to discern injury from not wanting to do infield or not wanting to take bp. And so we're monitoring always the trainers and the training staff. And that's why we mark everything down of any player who walks in and what they say, what's bothering them. We do it both for coverage and workers comp purposes, but also to understand who's just hungover. And so what I would try to do with the players is just say, be honest. We don't want to put you on the report if you're just on the training table because you have a headache and your headache is because you were out all night. Do it. Go sleep in a dark room. But we're only going to put you on the report if you're hurt. So that's a. That's another funny thing that goes on during the course of a season behind the scenes. How.

[Dominique Foxworth]

How prevalent is that in baseball? Because I. That to me sounds so. And again, it's about the length of the season, but that sounds so absurd to me in the football context. Like any player who did that, it would be like, it would feel like an affront to the team and percentage of your schedule. Yeah. Guys would be so mad at a guy who showed like, hey, we got to work. Like you showed up to. I've been on teams where a guy had a drinking problem and showed up to practice drunk all the time. And we wanted him out more than the coaches did. Like, it's our livelihood and safety, frankly, is dependent on. And I guess baseball is a very individual team sport. So it's like, all right, that wants to do that with his career. It's not going to impact the way I hit or the way I feel.

[David Sampson]

Well, some of them. I think that if I did the math, I was a president for 208 Sunday games. Roughly if I had a guess.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Nothing's more fun than math. Let's do some more math.

[David Sampson]

205 of 208. Someone came in hungover on a. For a Sunday game. From a Saturday night to an afternoon game. And more than one player. Some players were better. I love you, Miguel, and I've said this to your face, but Miguel Cabrera could hit the ball and he would just aim for the middle ball. And it was just incredible what he.

[Pablo Torre]

Was able to do.

[David Sampson]

I guess other. Other guys were not able to perform when they were hungover.

[Pablo Torre]

So I was going to get to that just so that look, I love you, Mickey. By the way, we certainly believe that less than we did before you snitched.

[David Sampson]

No, I really do, actually.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. Even though you snitched on him, I.

[Pablo Torre]

Was going to wonder aloud about the bottom line performance criterion of just, hey, is this guy actually just worth it? Right. He's still hitting. He's still the guy we need to give the ball to at the end of LeBron, again, famously. Just to add another example from recent history, remember when Phil Jackson got in trouble for the posse comment? He got in trouble because he was objecting to the treatment that LeBron was begrudgingly given by Pat Riley, who was running the heat because LeBron got to dictate his travel schedule, his friends like his business partner Maverick Carter, as well as his other associates that he wanted to. Wrong.

[Dominique Foxworth]

He didn't get in trouble because he objected to that. He got in trouble because he used.

[Pablo Torre]

The word that felt like it did not reflect an understanding of the legitimacy of those guys and also the racial history of America in general. All of these things are true.

[David Sampson]

Thank you for clarifying that, Dominique.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, you're welcome.

[Pablo Torre]

But. But the point being that he's LeBron.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Many jobs of the black man, I got to do everything around here.

[Pablo Torre]

That's right.

[David Sampson]

Player empowerment's a real thing.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. I'm talking about player empowerment. Right. And what we're really talking about is superstars getting to dictate terms in a way that reflects their understanding of the scarcity of their talents.

[David Sampson]

The hardest thing to do is when a player's been empowered and they're really, really worth it. And then time passes and they're not worth it. And it's really hard to claw back the power that you've given the player.

[Pablo Torre]

The Emirates NBA cup is here, and you can win big by getting in on the action. At DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, there is sure to be a wide array of awesome dunks. No look passes, all the stuff that brings a crowd to their feet. So get behind your favorite players and the prop bets you can make on DraftKings, the home of NBA player props. As always, lines are subject to change, but getting the Thunder, for instance, getting them to win the cup at plus 550 is looking pretty nice to me. And if it's your first time, here's something special just for you. New DraftKings customers bet $5 to get $150 in bonus bets. If your bet wins, score big. With DraftKings Sportsbook, every point counts. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app and use code Pablo. That is code Pablo for new customers to get $150 in bonus bets. If your bet wins. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours. Gambling problem, call 1-800- gambler in New York. Call 877-8-OpenY or text hopeny 467-369 In Connecticut, help is available. For problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit C Please play responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino in resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void in Ontario. Bet must win to receive reward. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG co B ball. All right, it's time for me to take the wheel back. There's another story, David, that I thought of you when I was reading it because it is titled the Allure of Microdosing Ozempic. So there is a whole and Dominique's giving a face that I think is the right reaction when I say, David Sampson, I thought of you when I was reading this story. And the subhead is some people are taking tiny amounts of weight loss medications, hoping to drop pounds while avoiding side effects. Does it work? And the spoiler alert on this is that there is no real solid scientific consensus, but it does seem like there is a community of people that is seeing benefits from this in a way that feels both encouraging because it speaks to, again, the way the body's chemistry and the science of both weight loss and hunger are actually shaped by levers we can pull. But also seems like it's too early to spike the football. We've solved the problem of people struggling to lose weight. And I think of David, Dominique, because I don't think a lot of people know this necessarily. And David, forgive me if this is not the intro that you wanted, but weight is something that you personally have had to reckon with, despite the fact that no one would look at you and say, that is a guy who is struggling with weight.

[David Sampson]

Well, you can't judge a book by its cover. Yes, I have always I've never been what other people would consider overweight, but I have always had a tremendous body dysmorphia issue. And so I view myself right now actually as not as looking about as bad as you can look at the end of a day like this. So I know what you're talking about. And I've looked at all sorts of herbs and all sorts of ways to lose weight, and it turns out that the best way that I ever found to lose weight was to be actually sick. And I had a disorder. And it turns out that that's probably not the best plan either. So it's a multi billion dollar industry full of bad plans.

[Pablo Torre]

And David, when you say you were sick and had a disorder, that was the way you lost weight. What are you describing there? Just so we can bring people into this conversation. And.

[David Sampson]

I was an anorexic for a bunch of years while I was running a professional sports team, while running marathons. I was sick.

[Pablo Torre]

When did it develop? When did it develop?

[David Sampson]

It, it, it really started when I was very young. I always had this weird view of myself. I'm always. And even as I sit here today, all these years later, all I'm thinking about when I do shows or when I'm in public and when I'm in private, it's every moment that I'm awake as I'm thinking of my stomach, it's all I think about. So if you ever look at me in pictures, I'm often I cross my hands over my front so people can't see. I'm very cognizant of how I look from the back, whether or not I'm flat down by the waist. And when I see a little roll or something like that, it makes me insane. It's a horrible thing to have what I have. And it was years of therapy. I was down to 117 pounds in a very public job. And I thought that's the best I've ever looked. And I still look at those photos because they're on Google and I still view them as the best I've ever looked in my life. And I would, I would run 20 miles and purposely not eat the entire day. And I would. And while running a baseball team, that's how you lose weight. And now I'm about as heavy as I've ever been at about 139. I used to weigh myself about 25 times a day. After, before and after. Every time going to the bathroom before and after every course of a meal. I mean, I was sick. I really have never talked about that. That's a disappointing thing to say out loud.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I joke about how you have content brain all the time, but I'm not joking. This is the most content brain of all. Content brain we can talk about. It's fine. As long as David is comfortable talking about it. I'm proud to talk about it.

[Pablo Torre]

Hold on, hold on. David is clearly comfortable enough to want to talk about this.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Okay.

[Pablo Torre]

I have a Real conversation, real life with David. He can vouch for this. And then I'm reading all these news stories and I'm like, wait a minute. This is something that I want to talk to Dominique and David about, because David is as described. I am somebody who has had an incredible metabolism. And Dominique, I've shared this with you, but it's merely. It's really just me calling myself out. You know, it's like, oh, wait a minute, am I pre diabetic now? Because I'm not eating healthily, which is a thing that I have, by the way, last blood test, I've gotten out of it. For now.

[David Sampson]

We're all diabetic.

[Pablo Torre]

I know, we're all right. We're all day to day, as they say. But the point being that I am feeling as a dad, like when David said, I cover my stomach with my arms. You may notice on the YouTube or DraftKings network that I was also doing that for the same reason. And I am realizing my metabolism is done and I need to figure out my own issues with, like, how do I look in public? And Dominique is, of course, a former professional athlete whose physical health has been something he invests in in a rigorous way. And so here we are, three legs of a up tripod. And I just wanted to revel in that for a second.

[Dominique Foxworth]

We reveled.

[David Sampson]

I've been with you both. And Dominique, you are obviously a very fit, attractive man. And Pablo, I always assumed you were resting your arms, not covering anything. I thought they were on the ledge. I'd say that you look good in butter. There's no question about that. But listen, Pablo, I love you and I love Butterface, but we. You are not a butter face. But I. This is a serious issue. I hate that we're making light of it. I'm not happy to admit no one wants to talk about this stuff, and I'm not happy to have to talk about it. It's uncomfortable. But I'll tell you that it's not better because I still think about it every day. Every day, all day. I think about what I look like, how I feel. I'm very hyper aware of every little thing that happens. I used to be a tremendous picker. If I had a blemish anywhere. And so I had to wear gloves to stop myself from picking. So I'm aware of all these things that people struggle with, and it's not easy. And now I would choose to be a public figure, which I am. But guess what? We're all public figures because of social media. And so even if you're not in the world of media with your feed or your Instagram or Snapchat, there's kids and adults going through this, and it sucks. It just downright sucks. It drains the life out of you. It makes you exhausted to have to be a certain way all the time. And that's the world. And now I'm a part of it.

[Pablo Torre]

David, the word you use, which I think is appropriate and by the way, I do want to acknowledge. Right. Like, the reason I find all of this especially interesting is because we are dudes. And this is typically something that women, of course, are socially conditioned to be horrified by. And we've seen many movies about that. This, I think, relatively less so, which is why I want to lean into it. But you use the word before, which is dysmorphia, and I think that is a good word for this because it, of course, describes a feeling of profound unease or dissatisfaction, but it also indicates that there is a misalignment of reality and perception. And so when David is the guy. Davideek. Who is analyzing a table of hotel key cards with numbers, and he's a guy who is examining a stadium and picking out every little flaw and making sure it's right, it does track that you would turn that same gaze onto yourself in a way that indicates even though you're the guy who also. I don't think you've said this explicitly on this show, this bluntly. You're the guy who once ran how many marathons and how many continents and how many days? Right. Seven. In seven and seven.

[David Sampson]

Well, there are only seven.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[David Sampson]

Well, I'm just saying it's not. I've had more people ask me that. Is that you ran on every continent. Yeah. There's only seven.

[Pablo Torre]

I feel like that sort of proved my point, actually, the one I was gesturing towards. But, David, the point being that, of course, you're also that guy. You can't turn it off.

[David Sampson]

I think there's a lot of people who are just struggle with this. And what the dysmorphia is is that you see something that other people don't see, which is why with you two, I do it all the time, both on and off camera. I'm always testing. Hey, are you sort of hearing what I'm hearing and then reacting how I'm reacting to this? Paavo and I spend hours talking about this. And Dominique and I, we've talked about this sort of thing. That's where the testing comes from. I'm always testing.

[Dominique Foxworth]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

[David Sampson]

There's nothing sweeter than baking cookies during the holidays.

[Dominique Foxworth]

With Prime, I get all my ingredients.

[David Sampson]

Delivered right to my door, fast and free.

[Dominique Foxworth]

No last minute store trips needed.

[David Sampson]

And of course, I blast my favorite.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Holiday playlist on Amazon Music.

[David Sampson]

It's the ultimate soundtrack for creating unforgettable memories.

[Dominique Foxworth]

From streaming to shopping. It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.

[Pablo Torre]

I feel like we should go with a bit of a holiday spirit topic, and I want to know the best and worst gifts you guys have received.

[David Sampson]

I'm ready to go, Dominique.

[Pablo Torre]

So this is David's superpower. David, you give him a prompt. He's like, got it in a second. And it makes me think that he has contemplated every question I've ever asked anybody, ever.

[David Sampson]

But this is not rehearsed.

[Pablo Torre]

I know.

[David Sampson]

Rehearse. I've never.

[Pablo Torre]

I did not. I did not prep you guys about this.

[Dominique Foxworth]

So I read the other article, getting ready to talk about that. But I'm fine with this. Let's do it.

[Pablo Torre]

I think we've talked enough about bodies.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. Spoiler alert. And locker rooms.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[David Sampson]

My mother and father got me the same desk set three years in a row. The same exact thing when I was in 8th, 9th, and 10th grade. It was a pencil holder. It was a thing where you put your papers on. There were no computers at the time. It was a three piece set. One was for pens and pencils, one was for a stapler, and one was the square thing that you put on top of your desk three years in a row. Same one.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That's the worst, right? Not the best. That's the worst gift.

[David Sampson]

Oh, that's the worst. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I was just making sure.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, a little hard to tell sometimes.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Surprise.

[David Sampson]

Oh, my God. It was horrifying to me at the level of. At the lack of attention to detail or the absolute care.

[Pablo Torre]

I believe it's called mens rea when it comes to the criminal law. What is the motive here that you have. You have diagnosed?

[David Sampson]

Oh, it's lack of. It's just lack of knowing me or lack of paying attention. Lack of care. Lack of all that stuff. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. It makes you feel totally unappreciated or loved. It's terrible. It's the same fricking thing.

[Pablo Torre]

I do love that the guy who can't stop paying attention to the most microscopic detail is given three years in a row, the same gift as if.

[Dominique Foxworth]

He wasn't given it the year prior. So I'm not a big. I'm not a big gift guy. And so I would guess that this is probably also consistent with other things that you felt because I don't really consider myself a great gift buyer. I don't really want gifts from anybody in my life. But I do consider myself a good friend, partner, parent, and I consider people around me good to me without giving me any good gifts. Because when you ask me that question, I go back to my childhood and think about the Sega Genesis, which had no meaning to me, had no value. It's just like the happiest I remember being. Opening a present was like a Sega Genesis that I really wanted. Most of the other times, I don't know. At a certain age, I don't really care about gifts and it's really hard to find a gift that'll grab your attention. Right.

[Pablo Torre]

So I agree that. And I was going to pivot to sort of how gift giving in adulthood as a parent has been so much not about me anymore, to the point where, like, I can't remember. But I want to go to the Sega Genesis thing for a second because that feeling of like, unboxing a gift is both something that I, on some level, am chasing, even if I don't totally know it. And I know that others are because the most popular, of course, genre. One of the most popular genres on YouTube, of course, is unboxing videos in which you are watching other people unveil their gift. And so there is just something about that feeling of being a kid getting a present. And the promise of this is exactly. It's the promise of your emotional needs will be satisfied by this material possession. And over time that has been worn down to such a raggedy nub. But at the time, as a fellow Sega Genesis haver, I remember that exact Christmas of being like, oh my God, this hedgehog is going to make me happy. And it did for a while. And now as an adult, I'm like you, Dominique. I am not a good gift giver. I am a. I'm a self gifter where I'm just like, okay, I want you buy it. Yes. So the worst gift I've given is the gift I gave to myself, which is I am one of the idiots who bought the Apple Vision Pro. I'm. Oh, there it is. Me and David Sampson both raising our hands. We bought the VR headset.

[David Sampson]

I re gifted it to my son for his 21st.

[Pablo Torre]

Amazing. What? How many. First off, we should talk about regifting. But what how many times did you use it, David, before you decided to regift it?

[David Sampson]

It was unopened.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Do you give good gifts? Or have you, over the course of your children's lives, given them good gifts?

[David Sampson]

No.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's funny because you recognize how much it hurts you, and you just like, yeah, do it to them, too.

[David Sampson]

It's. Listen. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Dominique Foxworth]

But it's clear the goose. The goose is clearly not happy with.

[Pablo Torre]

Bad for the goose. It was traumatic for the goose.

[David Sampson]

It's goose, but it's a goose nonetheless.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think we necessarily agree on the meaning of this idiom.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, I don't think we do.

[David Sampson]

Idiots.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. My kids always ask me what I want. I always tell them, give me a hug. This year, my oldest daughter kept asking me, so I said, I would like you to put your clothes away every day from now until Christmas without me asking you. And she rolled her eyes at me. So I was like, I don't know. Like, write me a card. I don't.

[Pablo Torre]

Did you. Did you guys ever do the thing where you gave. I used to. I remember giving my mom coupons. Yes.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, I knew you were gonna do that.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. You write a custom coupon book, and it's like, I will clean my room. I will whatever, not play Sega Genesis. And you would tear them off and hand it to your mom. That everything. David, you familiar with the coupon as a. As a creative project?

[David Sampson]

One. One time, I got a coupon saying that I would get a bike, and it was just a picture of a bike, and I never got the bike. I ended up with just the picture. So I do not. I do not traffic in coupon gifts at all.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Tell me something. Tell me something happy, David. Something happy about your childhood. No, I mean, I just want to hear something happy about your childhood or. Or something that. Some experience with your children that you had that was, like, incredibly meaningful.

[David Sampson]

I have one. When I was 13, I had a bar mitzvah, and the hottest girl in the grade came to my bar mitzvah. And she came in a purple skirt, and I remember the outfit. And I was in love with her so much, and I didn't think I had a chance that she would come to little old me. My lunchtime bar mitzvah, and she came to that, and it was the greatest gift I've ever gotten in my life.

[Pablo Torre]

What happened at the.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Congratulations. I think that's it. I think that's it. I think she just came.

[David Sampson]

What do you mean that was the gift?

[Dominique Foxworth]

I don't think that he got his kiss.

[David Sampson]

Someone's time. A kiss? Don't be ridiculous. I barely got a glance or a gander, but it was good enough for me. We were in the same space.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Good for you, Goose.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say it's rare that the control room weighs in through my ear and just says, david is bumming everybody out.

[David Sampson]

Oh, I don't mean to. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. You guys are not playing it right. I'm just giving you stories. You guys, I'm so sorry. I'm very fortunate. Literally, I'm the luckiest person I know. So don't feel badly for me. I'm more than fine. More than fin.

[D]

This episode is brought to you by Disney Game On. Because ESPN content is available on Disney, you can watch your favorites from Disney, Hulu and ESPN together like never before. With espn, unwrap a full day of NBA action. On Christmas Day, tip off the festivities with the spurs and Knicks, followed by the Mavs and Timberwolves. Then a class between the Lakers and Warriors, followed by the 76ers and Celtics. And finally, the Nuggets face off against the Suns. All streaming December 25th. Then with Hulu, watch the terrifying sci fi thriller Alien Romulus, where a group of young space colonizers come face to face with the ultimate horror. And on Disney, follow the adventures of four kids across the galaxy as they meet unlikely allies and enemies in Star Skeleton, starring Jude Law. All of these and more now streaming and available with a Bundle subscription. Visit disneyplus.com for details. Terms apply.

[Pablo Torre]

What did we find out today, guys, on this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out. An episode in which we found out. I think a lot of stuff, personally. Yeah. But, Dominique, do you want to lead us off with the revelation that you have developed here today?

[Dominique Foxworth]

I found out that the depths of Pablo's content brain know no floor.

[Pablo Torre]

Mm. Take that as a compliment.

[David Sampson]

I found out that the depth of Dominique's competitive nature knows no bounds.

[Pablo Torre]

I found out that both of you guys are bad at finding out because all of those things should have been obvious from episode one that we ever did together.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Oh, man, that's a good one.

[Pablo Torre]

I invoke superstar privilege. The show is over. Get the out of here.

[David Sampson]

Thank God. See you later, guys. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Love you guys. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.