PTFO - The Ballad of Saw Man: How to Tear Down (and Steal*) a Goalpost

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode Title: PTFO - The Ballad of Saw Man: How to Tear Down (and Steal*) a Goalpost
Release Date: November 26, 2024
Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz

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1. Introduction to the Tradition of Goalpost Tearing

The episode kicks off with hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz delving into a unique and storied tradition in college football: the tearing down of goalposts. This custom, reserved for triumphant underdog victories, is explored as a profound celebration that transcends mere jubilation.

Quote Highlight:

• Nikki (02:16): "So for the uninitiated, tearing down goalposts is really the supreme celebration for a college football underdog. When they pull off an upset victory at home, they're inching closer. The hometown fans storm the field."

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2. The Phenomenon of Goalpost Tearing

Hosts discuss the cultural and emotional significance of goalpost tearing, emphasizing its rarity and the fervor it evokes among fans. They highlight how this act is not only a celebration but also a method of commemorating historic victories.

Quote Highlight:

• Pablo Torre (03:00): "Absolutely. It is a tradition that is hard to compare with anything else in the world of sports."

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3. The Rise of Saw Man: A Modern Hero

a. Origin Story

The narrative introduces Ned Vickers, affectionately known as "Saw Man," a seasoned enthusiast of the goalpost tearing tradition. His passion began in 1984 during a Tennessee vs. Alabama game, setting him on a lifelong journey of goalpost acquisition.

Quote Highlight:

• Ned Vickers (Saw Man) (27:01): "I turn to my dad and say, I'm going. See you. And before he had a chance to say anything, I was gone."

b. Recent Feat: Vanderbilt vs. Alabama

In a thrilling recount of the October 5th game, Vanderbilt's unexpected victory over Alabama sets the stage for another dramatic goalpost tear-down. The episode features firsthand accounts from Luke Rickers, a die-hard Vanderbilt fan, detailing the chaotic yet euphoric scene.

Quote Highlight:

• Luke Rickers (07:01): "Vanderbilt takes down number one, Alabama. Vanderbilt 40, Alabama 35."

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4. The Mechanics of Goalpost Tearing

Hosts and guests break down the physical and strategic aspects of tearing down a goalpost. Nikki provides a step-by-step guide on the process, highlighting common mistakes and essential tools needed for the endeavor.

Quote Highlight:

• Nikki (21:31): "There are a lot of ways to do this wrong. The first mistake is thinking that the key to taking down a goalpost is the gooseneck."

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5. Saw Man’s Legacy and Innovations

a. Building a Dynasty

The episode explores Saw Man's extensive experience and methods, showcasing his meticulous approach to goalpost tearing. His influence extends to his family, with his son Eli also embracing the tradition.

Quote Highlight:

• Saw Man (29:29): "Ned and his family even made the photo of them sawing the goalpost that year, their family Christmas card."

b. Technological Countermeasures

In response to the persistent goalpost tearing, manufacturers like Sports Field Specialties innovate with hydraulic goalposts. These advanced systems allow for quick retraction post-game, aiming to thwart the traditional tear-downs.

Quote Highlight:

• Nikki (41:24): "There is a new hydraulic model of a goalpost, a futuristic model that can cost up to $25,000."

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6. The Economic Impact

The hosts discuss the financial implications of goalpost tearing, highlighting the costs associated with replacing destroyed goalposts. They reveal how universities are monetizing this tradition by auctioning off pieces of the torn goalposts, turning a celebratory act into a lucrative venture.

Quote Highlight:

• Pablo Torre (39:00): "The goalpost costs about 8 to $10,000 each to manufacture and to ship to location."

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7. The Future of the Tradition

As new technologies emerge to prevent goalpost tearing, Saw Man and his peers adapt, ensuring the continuation of the tradition despite mounting obstacles. The episode underscores the resilience and passion of those committed to preserving this cultural practice.

Quote Highlight:

• Nikki (45:05): "If anyone has dreamed of doing this. If anyone wants to take our point by point guide and put this into action, now is the time. Change is coming."

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8. Conclusion: Preserving the Legacy

The episode wraps up by reflecting on the enduring nature of the goalpost tearing tradition and its significance in college football culture. Hosts celebrate the contributions of individuals like Saw Man, who embody the spirit and passion of their communities.

Quote Highlight:

• Nikki (52:42): "Let me be the first to tell you Happy Holidays. This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time."

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Notable Moments and Highlights

• Emotional Accounts: Personal stories from Saw Man and Luke Rickers add depth and relatability, illustrating the profound connection fans have with their teams.
• Technical Breakdown: Detailed explanations of the goalpost structure and the mechanics of tearing them down provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the process.
• Economic Insight: The discussion on the financial aspects offers a unique perspective on how traditions can intersect with commerce.
• Innovative Responses: The introduction of hydraulic goalposts showcases the ongoing battle between tradition and technology.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz masterfully blends storytelling, technical analysis, and cultural commentary to shed light on the vibrant tradition of goalpost tearing in college football. Through engaging narratives and insightful discussions, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for a practice that symbolizes triumph, community, and the undying spirit of sportsmanship.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. And today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[Nikki]

If anyone has dreamed of doing this, if anyone wants to take our point by point guide and put this into action, now is the time.

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Nikki]

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

[Pablo Torre]

Right in front of the glass where our producers are, there's books, there's a racially ambiguous Christmas elf. If you recall last year's Christmas episode. There's a PS5 controller, a microphone.

[Nikki]

It's really a junk drawer of a.

[Pablo Torre]

Shelf my wife has accused me of and she called me this yesterday. Okay. This is some late breaking insult.

[Nikki]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

I am the master of tchotchkes.

[Nikki]

I think that's great.

[Pablo Torre]

I agree. I think stuff objects, physical objects in digital time.

[Nikki]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Nikki, you're an artist. You get it big time. This is important. It's important to commemorate our history in front of us in real life, tangibly, you know, it's.

[Nikki]

It's very in vogue to have a minimalist aesthetic.

[Pablo Torre]

Right, Marie Kondo?

[Nikki]

Yeah, I'm totally against that. Yeah. I am clutter. Core to the core. I like to collect objects.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Nikki]

And having them around me or on me or in my pocket, it just. I don't know, it makes my life feel richer.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. And I would say that the episode we're here to do together is effectively about this concept as embraced by college football.

[Nikki]

Definitely.

[Pablo Torre]

It is about the tangible objects that people are striving whenever possible, to risk so much, it turns out, to acquire and keep for themselves.

[Nikki]

So for the uninitiated, tearing down goalposts is really the supreme celebration for a college football underdog. When they pull off an upset victory at home. Oh, they're inching closer. The hometown fans storm the field.

[Pablo Torre]

Their own field.

[Nikki]

Their own field. Here we go. Place about to explode. It's Oral Iowa. They jump over the barricades, they get out onto the field, and they celebrate with the players and the coaches, and they just go nuts. There's gonna be some fun on this campus here tonight. In moments of great historic victory, they take the extra step and tear down their hometown goalposts. And what a scene is Bobby Dodd. There go the goal post.

[Pablo Torre]

And this is essentially the most valuable pelt that you can take down as a big game Hunter.

[Nikki]

Absolutely. It is a tradition that is hard to compare with anything else in the world of sports.

[Pablo Torre]

The goalpost is going.

[Nikki]

Do they have enough? Come on, come on.

[Luke Rickers]

Get it down. I love it.

[Nikki]

I love it.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. So good. Carry them out. Take him downtown. It is self destruction. It is your own stadium that you are ruining. It is illegal, highly illegal, objectively dangerous. And you have commemorated this on the sweatshirt you've brought us today in studio.

[Nikki]

It says, you're going down, you're yr going down. And with a little felt gold post underneath that.

[Pablo Torre]

There's a certain partisanship in your reporting, I dare say.

[Nikki]

Pablo, I feel like you focusing on the vandalism and the destruction, I just have to say that legally, yeah, I mean you're coming off as a real square because this is not only a great celebration that has gone back generations, this is really a folk tradition that I've come to learn and appreciate recently.

[Pablo Torre]

I should also say that again for just purely self protective reasons, it is theft technically.

[Nikki]

So college administrators and law enforcement, they would agree with you. They tend to frown upon, you know, the vandalism of stadiums and so forth. This goes far beyond just a conventional celebration. Not only are these things kind of paraded around, but they are also oftentimes chopped up into little pieces and distributed among the hometown fans who are celebrating this upset.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. Which is to say that this is an unusually and very special ecstatic revolution that involves all of this property destruction and theft that you describe. And the crazy thing about this season, of course, is that I believe that this tradition has been clearly the theme of what we've been watching.

[Luke Rickers]

Clark Lee and his Commodores looking to make some history. They haven't knocked off Bama since 1984.

[Nikki]

Let's really start this story talking about when the great and number one seat at Alabama visited Vanderbilt University.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, the Commodores.

[Nikki]

To get inside this great upset that happened, we reached out to a young man named Luke Rickers who's a student at Vanderbilt.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

I'm a huge sports fan, go to all the games, go to all the basketball games, all the football.

[Nikki]

And he's such a die hard that he stays to the end of every game, he says, because Vanderbilt historically not a great football power.

[Pablo Torre]

That is also kind to Vanderbilt.

[Nikki]

They're horrible most of the time when they're losing, most of the fans clear out of the student section, which for Luke and his close buddies is a great opportunity for him to weasel down to the front row right next to the field so he can take in what is usually some pretty mediocre football action.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

If there was ever a Vandy win and you weren't there, like you messed up big time because that's not a thing that happened that often. So any win that we could get, you had to Be there.

[Pablo Torre]

Which is all to say that Luke's expectations heading into this specific game, October 5th against Alabama, big bad Alabama. It sounds like they were fairly low.

[Nikki]

Well, historically Vanderbilt has been killed by Alabama by probably an average of 50 points.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

I had zero expectation going into that game and I was just thinking as long as we didn't get blown out like that last time we did like 52 to 0, like that would have been a win in my book.

[Nikki]

But unbelievably to Luke and to everybody at the stadium, the game went very, very differently than the usual contest between Vanderbilt and Alabama. Wants to throw. He goes down the middle and touchdown Vanderbilt. And junior Cheryl. Vanderbilt's been playing football since 1890. They've never had a top five win. Top five.

[Pablo Torre]

It's amazing.

[Nikki]

Yeah, Little replay. Pavia throws. Touchdown Vanderbilt. So this is an unthinkable story that's unfolding. And the biggest win on the west end.

[Luke Rickers]

Vanderbilt takes down number one, Alabama.

[Pablo Torre]

Vanderbilt 40, Alabama 35.

[Nikki]

So Luke is sitting there and you know, he's sitting front row at this point. The unthinkable miracle has happened. And he said to himself, I want to be one of the first students on the field. He's standing at the top of this like 10 foot wall. He's just adamant that he's going to get on that field and the rest.

[Luke Rickers]

Of the students will do the same.

[Pablo Torre]

Everyone's storming the field. It's mayhem. What was Luke's plan?

[Nikki]

Luke told me that there was no plan.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

Oh, there was no plan. There was this like opposing team cooler right under the wall. I was like. Cause I think it was a pretty decent drop. There was like 8ft, 10ft. I ripped off my shirt at some point. I don't know if that was before or after I went over the wall. Fans kept accumulating. That mass in the middle just kept getting bigger and bigger. And I look over and the goal post is just like shaking. I was like, if that thing's coming down, like I have to play a role in it. I have to get my hands on that thing. I managed to get my way like to the base of the goalpost and there's so many students trying to grab onto that thing and bring it down. It was so hard to just even get a hand on it. And eventually I do. Some kid I don't even know, he like grabs like my legs and like lifts me up onto it. I don't know who pulled me or what happened, but I just ate it. Like I fell off the post like into this Kid, it was just a show, for lack of a better word.

[Pablo Torre]

I just want to point out that Vanderbilt is an excellent university. It's like a really academically rigorous school.

[Luke Rickers]

I will guarantee you that this was.

[Nikki]

Not on the Vanderbilt syllabus, no matter.

[Luke Rickers]

What the course coming into the semester. How to tear down a goal post. But they chopped and chopped and they finally brought the thing down.

[Pablo Torre]

The video that we just played. Yeah, I mean, if you zoom in, I.

[Nikki]

You can pretty clearly spot that's topless Luke right there. Right there.

[Pablo Torre]

Hands both stretched into the sky in a V appropriate Right beneath a clearly tipping over yellow metal upright.

[Nikki]

I mean, that's forever. That's so good.

[Pablo Torre]

So I was watching from home, and what you see both online and in the broadcast, you see what reminded me of an army of just completely drunk ants, right? Just like carrying this object that's so disproportionately large. Larger than them.

[Nikki]

Once they got the goalpost down, they started to parade it around. And then everyone is thinking, okay, let's try and get this out of the stadium. On the side of the field that it was taken down, there was a tunnel. And they tried to march the goalpost out of that tunnel. It ends up being too big, but they slam it into the top of the tunnel. It takes a chunk out of the tunnel. They say, we gotta back up. This is not gonna work.

[Pablo Torre]

Where are the security guards at this point?

[Nikki]

At this point, the security has pretty much given up hope of stopping the mayhem. So the students, they're like, okay, we gotta backtrack. They're like, okay, we're gonna try and get it out the totally other side of the field. They're able this time to get it out of the stadium. And suddenly they're out with this giant goalpost just out on campus.

[Pablo Torre]

Where are they trying to go?

[Nikki]

So Luke says that even though there was no coordinated plan, the hive mind seemed to want to take this giant goalpost, almost as if the goalpost itself was a giant divining rod, and take it towards water. A three mile walk from campus down Broadway into what is the Cumberland river in downtown Nashville.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

I knew that when we got on the street that that thing was ending up in the river. It's just kind of this unspoken mass movement in that general direction. And I was like, okay, that's what we're doing. I'm gonna keep carrying it and see where we end up. But we end up at the river. And it just was the perfect landing place for it. Like, I don't know where else we could put it down there, like in the middle of Broadway. Like, is that considered littering?

[Pablo Torre]

I'm going to show a video here on YouTube and the DraftKings Network, which I am deeply proud to show everybody. This is from the police helicopter. And it's in night vision.

[Nikki]

So good.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, this is an ant farm. Like, this is. Look at Vicky.

[Nikki]

How unrealistic.

[Pablo Torre]

Just so many. Just again, night vision. White thermal signatures, just a crowd of them all.

[Nikki]

There we go.

[Pablo Torre]

Just plunging what is now clearly like the dislocated elbow of an upright into the river.

[Nikki]

Luke talks about it almost like he had an out of body experience. Everyone's chanting, in the river, in the river, in the river. There's a real, almost a hysteria that has taken over everyone. So as he's watching this thing quickly sink into the Cumberland river, he tangibly feels the adrenaline leave his body and he kind of comes back to his senses. And as he does, he kind of takes a look around him and he realizes that his comrades, they're starting to get arrested by police.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

And I was like, all right, that might be. Might be wraps. Might be time to find another activity or somewhere else to take the rest of our night.

[Pablo Torre]

But that sort of phenomenon you just described, of a transformation. Yeah, I mean, part of the physical object that we're talking about here, it goes from this thing that is so mundane, it becomes this talisman, this piece of genuinely valuable memorabilia freighted with all of the energy of a nightlike this that people, as you referenced, proceed to then eventually get a piece of.

[Nikki]

Sometimes there seems to be some sort of unspoken, magical energy that comes from carrying a physical piece. I mean, we're talking about an artifact that Die Hard fans would regard as something that could live in a museum.

[Pablo Torre]

Right, Right.

[Nikki]

Not only has this phenomenon existed, this practice existed for more than a century, but that there is also this shadow war that's been going on between the kind of rebellious practitioners of this art form.

[Pablo Torre]

The Lukes of the world.

[Nikki]

Yeah. And these larger forces that are really trying to squash this practice from happening. And I was really put onto the dynamics of this through one of the master practitioners of this rebel art.

[Pablo Torre]

And so this man, who does sound like he has a plan, what is this man's name?

[Nikki]

This man's name, Pablo, is Sawman.

[Mickey Dujay]

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[Nikki]

How am I gonna sleep?

[Mickey Dujay]

Boom. Peloton has classes for sleeping. Just put it on and fall asleep. Find your push, find your power with [e-mail].

[Pablo Torre]

So just one basic fact that I would like you to understand here before we proceed is that nobody tears down goalposts after NFL games, which I think says so much about the institution that is college football. A sport where this past Saturday, for instance, Lehigh University doinked their goalpost off a bridge and into their river after beating Lafayette to win the Patriot League. And in college, in fact, tear downs like this will happen multiple times on the same Saturday, including on that October day, October 5, when Vandy upset Alabama and Arkansas also upset Tennessee. And none of our correspondents could have been more eager to dive into all of this than Mickey Dujay, an animator and documentarian and illustrator who was last seen on this program sharing the story of his secret life as an underdog goth tennis champion. Because despite what one power conference executive suggested to us here, Pablo Torre finds out, which is that the sport is deeply concerned about, quote, the safety of participants and spectators alike, end quote. This tradition, this subculture, is also an art form. A currently endangered, unhinged art form about literal unhinging that some are now daring to preserve.

[Nikki]

So, as we said, Luke himself did not have a plan once he launched himself off this 10 foot wall onto the turf at Vanderbilt.

[Pablo Torre]

And I don't want to be this guy, but I have to be this guy, because you're not going to be this guy. Obviously we are not telling college students who might be listening to this to tear down the goalposts at your local university football field, but if they were to efficiently tear down a goalpost So.

[Nikki]

I can help you. As a public service, I have created the official Pablo Torre Finds out guide to tearing down goalposts.

[Pablo Torre]

Great.

[Nikki]

So let's start with the ingredients. First, you'll start with the goalpost. Obviously, the next thing that you'll need is a crew of individuals. Third thing that we'll need is a field storming, where your group can have access to this goalpost. And the last thing that you'll need is a little bit of time. Let's just say, on average, you'll need about 15 minutes to pull this off. After you have all of those ingredients, let's talk about the anatomy of your adversary here. Goalposts generally weigh between 600 and 1,000 pounds each. This is not a small object.

[Pablo Torre]

It's so heavy.

[Nikki]

Each of these goalposts has three main parts to them. The uprights. Each of them is 30ft tall. Those are connected to a horizontal piece in the middle of the structure called the crossbar. And that crossbar is connected to the ground by the gooseneck, which is a curved piece of metal that connects usually to some sort of base at the bottom of the structure. So, generally speaking, the uprights are the lightest part, which are made of a hollow aluminum piping. Weighs about 50 to 75 pounds each.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm just going to stop you and point out that it sounds like you're an instructor in a terrorist training cell.

[Nikki]

I resent that. This is, again, a public service, Pablo. The crossbar is a bit heavier. It weighs about 150 pounds. But it's really when we get down to the gooseneck, that's really where all the weight is.

[Pablo Torre]

What do young people typically screw up when they are trying to tear down a goalpost, given everything you've just laid out?

[Nikki]

So there are a lot of ways to do this wrong. Let's just cover a few basic rookie mistakes. The first mistake is thinking that the key to taking down a goalpost is the gooseneck. The durability of said gooseneck is more than what your crew can handle. Sometimes people also think that the way to do this is to unscrew it. That is also not a thing. So don't think that that is worth your time either.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to point out that this entire time, you have been pointing and gesturing and clenching your fist very violently over a bunch of illustrations. You've made us very helpfully for this thing we are not telling college students to do. Once again.

[Nikki]

Well, it is really important to know what you're doing, because the clock is ticking. The move is to hoist your group up onto the crossbar.

[Pablo Torre]

You want to lift the whole group onto the crossbar.

[Nikki]

Maybe the most agile and strong members of your.

[Pablo Torre]

You're gonna hold a draft combine for this.

[Nikki]

You want to group your members into one of the far corners where the crossbar meets the upright. So you're not trying to evenly disperse your weight across the entire length of the crossbar.

[Pablo Torre]

This is just physics.

[Nikki]

Now you're trying to choose one of the corners and put maximal weight on that corner. So you want people hanging on it. You want people jumping up and down on that corner. You are trying to give that corner, Pablo, the absolute business that is going to win you just a few inches of downward tilt. At that point, move your attack to the entirely opposite corner. This is a gradual process, and after you do that, you're going to want to rock back and forth.

[Pablo Torre]

See saw on this?

[Nikki]

Absolutely. That's. That's the word. Seesawing. So you're going from one side to another. It's really helpful for you to deputize a field general who's on the field, who actually calls out the changes, who says, you've done enough on that corner. Shift your attack. And once you get one of the corners very close to, if not down on the turf itself itself, that's when you shift to the next phase of this process, which is getting your entire crew behind the goalpost facing midfield. And what you want to do then is get as many hands on the goalpost, and if you have sufficiently weakened the goalpost's structural integrity and you give it an epic heave, that thing will come down and glory will be yours.

[Pablo Torre]

But as I'm now just processing all this methodology, which I appreciate the detail on.

[Nikki]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

I realize that the part where we get to keep the glory for ourselves has not yet been discussed. And I presume for this part, we're gonna need a tool that you haven't illustrated or taught me about yet.

[Nikki]

That's right. And not just any tools.

[Luke Rickers]

In my professional opinion, you can either go old school, you know, with a, you know, old school hacksaw. Now, what I would recommend is that you actually have a sharp hacksaw. This one is like a butter knife, and it takes a little long to cut, but if you really want to get through the upright, you really need a reciprocating saw.

[Nikki]

So, Pablo, this is the infamous and beloved folk hero known as Sawman.

[Pablo Torre]

I had a guess.

[Nikki]

Yeah. So by day, Sawman is known as Ned Vickers, who is the president of the Sugarlands Distilling Company. In Tennessee. But this man's passion, his true passion, and I would say his calling is really to saw through a variety of goalposts with his beloved a hacksaw. But he has also considered a variety of other tools.

[Luke Rickers]

A grinder would work. I've also heard people say that, you know, a cutting torch would be, would be ideal.

[Nikki]

Like almost like a, like a blowtorch that burns.

[Luke Rickers]

Yeah, like, like a welding torch.

[Nikki]

Wow.

[Luke Rickers]

Yeah.

[Nikki]

And what about. This is going to seem ridiculous, but a chainsaw?

[Luke Rickers]

No, no, you wouldn't want to do that. Chainsaw is not sharp enough. You need it. You need a real fine tooth blade.

[Nikki]

And what about a battery powered circular saw?

[Luke Rickers]

Again, the blades, now if you had a blade that was specifically for cutting metal, that would probably work well. But most of them are meant for lumber and that's. The teeth are too big.

[Pablo Torre]

How does one become saw man? Like, what is Ned Vickers superhero origin story?

[Nikki]

It all started a long time ago, 40 years ago, back in 1984, when our man Ned was just a wee boy, 12 years old. He and his dad were both Tennessee Volunteers fans and they went that year to the Tennessee Alabama game.

[Pablo Torre]

It's time for the 67th meeting between the Alabama Crimson Tide and the Tennessee Volunteers.

[Nikki]

So Ned and his father were sitting at Nealon Stadium among the fans. 95,422 are on hand as the Volunteers come racing onto the field.

[Pablo Torre]

And it's football time in Tennessee.

[Nikki]

And in the fourth quarter, unbelievably, Tennessee stages this epic comeback.

[Pablo Torre]

Tennessee with the ball, the full house.

[Nikki]

Backfield Jones give him six touchdown pig. Or this is Robinson the option Robinson keep there is field storming. And our little boy ned as a 12 year old finds himself in the mix.

[Luke Rickers]

I turn to my dad and say, I'm going. See you. And before he had a chance to say anything, I was gone. So we wind up making it down the strip. I've got my hand on a four foot section of the goal post with four other, you know, middle aged guys and were looking for a hacksaw at the time. They had service stations on the strip. And so we eventually found a service station that would loan us their hacksaw. And so we cut up a piece of it for each of us and I head back to the car not knowing how mad my dad's going to be. This is almost three hours later. So I get to the car. It's the only car in the lot at that point. I have my piece of the goalpost. And I think he was just relieved, honestly. And Pleased that I had this piece of the goalpost. That's really how it got started.

[Nikki]

So, yeah, very safe to say that there is nothing more important to Ned than these rare, valuable artifacts of upset glory. And so from that point forward, we're talking decades now, 40 years. He has again and again just been sawing through goal post after goalpost, creating these artifacts for himself and others in good old Rocky Top, Tennessee. Rocky Top, you will always be holding on to me.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

Good old Rocky Top.

[Pablo Torre]

Rocky Top.

[Nikki]

And all of this brings us to the present or the near present. We're talking 20, 22. Once again, it's Alabama against Tennessee. Tennessee was the very sexy upset pick. Give me Tennessee Pandemonium Lane. This is going to be some kind of celebration if the big orange holds it off and they win the game on an incredible knuckleball field goal from 40 on the way. A knuckle ball. He got it yet again, inspiring the Tennessee fans to storm the field at Neyland Stadium. And here they come. The misery is over on Rocky Top.

[Pablo Torre]

And Ned again is somewhere in that teeming mass of people.

[Nikki]

So actually, Ned is not there. Ned was on a college visit that weekend, and so he was just getting back into town. He said he was a mile and a half from campus at a friend's house, but he watches this whole thing unfold.

[Luke Rickers]

Our other son was at the game with a friend, and so we're watching the game like everyone else and then have the miraculous comeback and the field goal, and we're jumping up and down in the house, and my wife says, you know, the boys need to see what this is like. So I grabbed a Tennessee bag, you know, bright orange bag, so it blend in with everything, and I stuck a hacksaw into the bag, and off we go.

[Pablo Torre]

I am struck repeatedly by the intentionality of Sawman and his arsenal here, in deep contrast to Luke once again, who just seemed to show up in this crowd, deeply disorganized with his classmates, and just generally try to throw this thing in the Cumberland River.

[Nikki]

So the much experienced Sawman is very familiar with this dynamic and also with this milieu.

[Luke Rickers]

And so we're walking up the strip, and sure enough, about halfway up the strip, here come two uprights. So at that point, I join in the fray, and I'm walking along beside all the drunk college kids, trying to convince them to put the goalpost down and let's cut it up. And they were just dead set. Individually, they all thought it was a great idea, but, you know, together, every time I'd get one of them convinced of it, somebody from behind him would yell to the river. So we followed them all the way to the river, and sure enough, they tossed the first upright into the river. And then here comes the second one. They toss it in the river. Well, about that time, some fraternity boys decided that it would be awfully nice to have a piece of that goalpost. So several of them jumped in the river. You know, it's about 10:30 at night, October, it's freezing outside. And there they are in the river. They fish it out and they bring it back and they start marching it back toward fraternity row. And my wife stands in front of them and just, you know, puts her hands up and says, you know, halt. We have a saw. And so I'm few hundred yards away with some other people at the time, and all of a sudden I start hearing them chant, saw, Men saw.

[Pablo Torre]

Men saw.

[Nikki]

Men saw.

[Luke Rickers]

And so here I come. So my plan is to cut a piece off of it, take it, and then donate the saw to the cause. Cause it's a lot of work to cut one of these up with a hacksaw. So I get started on it. They're chanting, saw, man. About halfway through it, I put too much pressure on the blade and broken. And all of a sudden I start getting booed by all the. All the college students. They lift it up and off they go. And there had to have been 150 people out there. And all of a sudden it's just the four of us standing there alone and just bummed out because we've missed our chance at getting a piece of the goalpost.

[Pablo Torre]

What an emotional roller coaster.

[Nikki]

Absolutely. But let's not forget there was another goalpost in the water.

[Luke Rickers]

And so off we go, and we're running down the riverbank and sure enough, there's one of the whole uprights is in the river and there's some poor college student clinging to it, but it's too big for him to wrangle back to the dock. So my now 16 year old, he was 14 at the time, turns to me and says, can I go in after it? And you know, being the great parent I am, I say, yeah, sure, go. You know, he strips down to his T shirt and off he goes. And so the two of them get it up on the bank and then we help them pull it up the rest of the way. But we don't have a saw. It's my four family members, a young life counselor from UT, and a 35 year old drunk guy with one shoe. And so and so I, you know, I start looking around, I tell the drunk guy, okay, you're coming with me. We're going to my house.

[Pablo Torre]

Good news for the drunk guy with one shoe. Saw man, as we know, owns more than one saw.

[Luke Rickers]

So he follows me, we go back to my house, we get a reciprocating saw. This time, we come back down, got another hacksaw, work our way down to where they are. They had hidden the goalpost in the brush because there were people all around looking. And we pull it out, cut it into five six foot sections, and we head back. So the young life counselor where his apartment was actually located, right beside Peyton Manning's Bar, Saloon 16. And that night, in celebration of the win, Morgan Wallen was doing an impromptu concert at this little 2,000 square foot bar. Got a special guest, Knoxville Zone.

[Pablo Torre]

Morgan Wallen's gonna come over.

[Luke Rickers]

You know, so you can imagine what that was like. It was a zoo. So we pull in next to this guy's apartment and was like, okay, three, two, one, go. He runs around, we open the lift gate, he pulls his section off and he just takes off running. And so he made it out of there alive.

[Nikki]

In this moment, the legend of Sawman is really born. And I want to give credit to Mike Wilson at the Knoxville News Sentinel. He originally published, reported and published this story.

[Pablo Torre]

A local legend befitting local coverage.

[Nikki]

So this legend starts to spread. And Ned himself, when he went back to work on Monday, every Monday morning.

[Luke Rickers]

We have a manager's meeting where we get together at our production facility.

[Nikki]

He happened to experience the legend being talked about out in the wild.

[Luke Rickers]

I walk into the meeting and everyone's seated at the table, and I hear someone telling the story of this middle aged guy called Saw Man. And so I walk in and I'm a very conservative person. They would never expect that I would be the person. So I sit down and I said, yeah, I'm Saw Man. And their chins just hit the table so very proudly.

[Nikki]

Ned and his family even made the photo of them sawing the goalpost that year, their family Christmas card.

[Pablo Torre]

So I've not seen this yet. Happy holidays. The Vickers family. And it is a Saw man doing what he loves.

[Nikki]

They're all elated.

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[Pablo Torre]

So we clearly have now Mickey, thanks to your reporting, the first family of goalpost destruction that I have to personally for legal reasons again disclaim because as much as this practice is a family heirloom, much like the goal posts themselves, this DIY dynasty is in fact legally a thing that we cannot co sign officially.

[Nikki]

So funny enough, Saw Man's son Eli Sawboy. Sawboy happens to be a freshman at Vanderbilt this year and was actually at the Vanderbilt Alabama game. Of course he was that we talked about earlier in the episode with Topless.

[Pablo Torre]

Luke and where was Saw Man?

[Nikki]

So Saw man was not there. Saw man is watching the game on TV and he's texting with his son Eli, who's sitting in the crowd in the student section. And as we described before, this unbelievable upset is brewing. Caught touchdown Vanderbilt and Junior Sherrill. And so Sawman texts Eli and says, hey, I'm getting in the car right now. I've got my Saw. He also adds, as the great father that he is, that also in the event that you need bail money tonight, mom and I were good for it.

[Pablo Torre]

Great parenting. The decision making though does raise this question about the the economy around all this, right? Like the goalpost economy, which is clearly something that is of concern to both police helicopters with night vision and also college administrators everywhere. The reason that they are concerned from a financial perspective, how much does the thing that Saw man loves to saw actually cost?

[Nikki]

This is where we have to talk about the existence of big goalposts. There is a company called Sports Field Specialties that is the number one manufacturer and installer of goalposts throughout college football and also in the pros. I spoke with a guy named Kevin Deventier who is the director of sales at Sportsfield and he is also very charmingly the head of what is called the replacement goalpost market, which is a market that exists because of this phenomenon of goalposts getting torn down. What Kevin told me about all of this is that the goalpost costs about 8 to $10,000 each to manufacture and to ship to location.

[Pablo Torre]

So for the buyers, not great. But for the sellers, the goalpost industrial complex, that's pretty good business.

[Nikki]

Not only do they sell these replacement goalposts, but they have now come to recommend that schools actually purchase a second goalpost just to have in storage in the event that their goalposts get torn down. And the goalpost guys, big goalpost, all their executives are on a group chat together, and they watch the college football scoreboards almost like tornado chasers watch the doppler radar, and they're looking for upsets. And in the event of Vanderbilt and Alabama, apparently that evening, the executives were gleefully texting to one another about the goalposts. They're coming down, they're coming down, they're coming down. It's go time. And suddenly they have to mobilize to make the new goalposts and rush to get them installed in time for the next home game.

[Pablo Torre]

So it sounds like the defense of Sawman is that Sawman is actually, in this economy, just a job creator.

[Nikki]

Definitely. He has been. But there is something happening in the world of goalpost technology that is threatening to turn all of this upside down, as it were. There is a new hydraulic model of a goalpost, a futuristic model that can cost up to $25,000. So we're talking more than twice the cost of a conventional.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm getting a pimp my ride just sort of aspect to this.

[Nikki]

Definitely. But what a hydraulic goalpost is, it looks just like a conventional goalpost, but instead of it being one solid structure, at the top of the gooseneck is a hinge. And the hydraulic hinge allows for the uprights to tilt forward and lay straight down, like, almost face first on the turf with a push of a button. I want you to take a look at this clip and see what happens right after the clock hits zero.

[Pablo Torre]

Right, Georgia tech. Yep.

[Nikki]

So the goalposts come down immediately. Paul, I'm pointing at this. I mean, everyone's shocked. No one's seen this before.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Nikki]

It's like watching, you know, the death star being operational. So what happened technically, is that that was so fast. Somewhere in the stadium, an administrator pushed the secret hydraulic button, and the goalpost immediately slammed down to the ground, and they swarmed it with security guards, trying to keep the students away from it so that they couldn't rip it to pieces.

[Pablo Torre]

Right. And so this New security system, it seems like, worked exactly as advertised.

[Nikki]

Well, there was a photo that went around after the game, and if you take a look at this photo, you can see that the hydraulic system and the gooseneck, it did function as intended.

[Pablo Torre]

Those 30 foot uprights that Mickey was describing before have been amputated.

[Nikki]

So despite the fact that the hydraulic component worked as intended, clearly that part.

[Pablo Torre]

The gooseneck is immaculate.

[Nikki]

The students, and really credit to the Georgia Tech students, they still somehow were able to snap the uprights off of the construction and still parade them gloriously around the stadium.

[Pablo Torre]

And that, by the way, is exactly what happened this past Saturday when Arizona State stormed the field early after upsetting byu, it turned out. And Oklahoma did the same against Alabama. And at both places, you could very clearly see the hydraulic goalposts that Mickey was just describing rotating down to the ground and then immediately become defended by all that security where they remained intact. And when it comes to the conferences themselves, because you see all these headlines about all of the money that they're finding, schools, right, who are involved in these things, I do want to point out that we here at Pablo Torre finds out, did of course, reach out to a top SEC official for comment about this regime of fines. And what they said is that these are field storming fines. The price has in fact gone up in the 20 years since the SEC adopted the policy. We now are at $100,000 for the first offense, $250,000 for the second, half a million dollars for subsequent offenses after that. And there's also, just in case you were wondering, an additional $100,000 penalty, Mickey, if fans storm the field before the end of the game.

[Nikki]

So all that being the case, you should know that those are blanket fees in the event of goalposts getting taken down. There are no punishments at the moment. There's a loophole.

[Pablo Torre]

Look, you have your sweatshirt. I see what you're trying to imply here.

[Nikki]

Yeah, I mean, just as a public service announcement, I will just say for.

[Pablo Torre]

Anyone interested, why are you speaking directly into a camera?

[Nikki]

And I'll say this, I don't like.

[Pablo Torre]

You grabbing the camera.

[Nikki]

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[Pablo Torre]

I think we should probably go to break.

[Nikki]

Don't delay.

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[Pablo Torre]

So it's time to bring us all full circle here because the last time we talked about Luke, our Vanderbilt friend, he was topless en route to the Cumberland river, tracked by police helicopters using night vision.

[Sawman (Ned Vickers)]

It was just a show, for lack of a better word.

[Pablo Torre]

And now we also know because of your reporting with the Saw family, that Saw boy, son of Sawman was also there in the milieu, as you put it somewhere, marching down Broadway towards that very same river in question. And so the thing that they all hurled into the Cumberland river together, that all important metal object, when they get dredged from the water, which I presume they did, where did they go?

[Nikki]

So this is another great innovation that has happened this time on the university and on the rebel side, which is that these goalposts oftentimes make their way back to the schools from which they were taken. And schools have realized that these objects are incredibly valuable, especially if you cut them into tiny little pieces and auction them off on the university website. So in the case of Vanderbilt University, they auctioned off tiny pieces of this incredible goalpost for prices like up to $7,500 per slice.

[Pablo Torre]

Wait, it sounds like the university, the big bad administrators from the top down, they were doing in the end what Saw man was doing.

[Nikki]

Well, this is capitalist society, Pablo. And they would argue that, hey, they're just doing this to pay the fines that the conferences are levying on them and also to cover the cost of the replacement goalposts. But just a cursory look at these auctions, you're realizing that the universities, if you do the math, they're actually making more money, I was going to say, than any of this cost.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, I'm doing some basic multiplication, and this sounds like a. Like a relative windfall for one Vanderbilt University.

[Nikki]

It has been. But, you know, I say credit to the universities for doing this, because there is a great appetite for all of these objects. Yes. And as a surprise to you, we can bring in a little something.

[Pablo Torre]

I like how you're grabbing cameras. You're summoning Patrick from.

[Nikki]

Here we go, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you to Rob for unveiling Jesus Christ.

[Nikki]

And in front of us today. Feel its power, Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, my God. Hold on. This is on a plate.

[Nikki]

I mean, I mean, lay your hands on that. Is this the goalpost from Vanderbilt university? That was October 5th. Thrown in the Cumberland river, torn down by Topless Luke. It's so dirty there. It was, you know, piece of 4 inch aluminum pipe lent to us by Vanderbilt boosters who, you know, retained some of the slices. Perhaps they will auction them off at a later time. But just to give you a sense of, again, the totemic power of this.

[Pablo Torre]

Object, this would look so good on my wall of tchotchkes that my wife is mad at me for.

[Nikki]

Unfortunately, Pablo, you cannot have that. But before we go, that's a real bummer, honestly, I do have another surprise for you. And, you know, to honor again this underground folk tradition, I have a gift for you that you can keep. And it's a gift on behalf of myself and also on behalf of big goalposts.

[Pablo Torre]

Nerve wracking to continually unveil things I don't know about.

[Nikki]

Can bring this one in. We can leave this one for the moment.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so a fancy box with a velveteen cushion. Oh, my God.

[Nikki]

So what you have there, Pablo, is, oh, my God, another slice of a goal post. This is the very top of an upright. Oh, my God. And I will say that, you know, for a variety of reasons, some legal, I. I can't fully disclose.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, where is this?

[Nikki]

Where'd you get this where this game used upright came from, but let's just say that I myself got something out of this as well in the form of my new Christmas card design.

[Pablo Torre]

So for those now watching on YouTube and the DraftKings network, you've made a terrible decision. Today Mickey is taking a hacksaw to what I now must presume is the upright from a local field near his home in New York and it says Happy Holidays above and he is grinning like a saw relative if I have ever seen one. I think I have some questions that have been answered.

[Nikki]

Good.

[Pablo Torre]

When I tell my wife why I'm bringing this home today and what it is, she is not gonna find any of this even vaguely funny.

[Nikki]

Another tchotchke for your shelves, Pablo. And let me be the first to tell you Happy Holidays.

[Pablo Torre]

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out a Meadowlark Media production and I'll talk to you next time.