Share & Cool & Tell with David Dennis Jr. and Mina Kimes

Summary

Episode Summary: "Share & Cool & Tell with David Dennis Jr. and Mina Kimes"

Release Date: May 30, 2025
Hosts: Pablo Torre, David Dennis Jr., Mina Kimes
Podcast: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

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1. Introduction to Coolness in Sports

The episode kicks off with Pablo Torre introducing the central theme: exploring the concept of "coolness" among current athletes across major sports. Building upon a Substack article by the anonymous author "Oxportello," the hosts delve into the idea that the NBA playoffs are signaling a "crisis of cool." They aim to dissect what makes an athlete cool and how this perception has evolved in today's sports landscape.

2. Defining "Cool"

Authenticity and Originality:
David Dennis Jr. emphasizes that "cool is truly in the eye of the beholder" but identifies authenticity and originality as key components. He states, "I think cool is original... [Anthony Edwards] does not seem to be emulating anyone either." (09:56)

Effortlessness and Anti-Authority:
Pablo Torre adds that trying too hard can be counterproductive: "Try hardness, like somebody who really wants to be cool. Effort, transparency of effort feels like another anti-cool sort of aspect here." (10:47). Both Mina Kimes and Pablo agree that effortless demeanor contributes significantly to an athlete's coolness.

Cultural Impact and Personal Surroundings:
Mina Kimes points out that coolness is influenced by cultural surroundings and personal authenticity: "If they are on social media, we get to know the real them... These players just play basketball all the time." (11:13).

3. Drafting the Coolest Athletes

The hosts engage in a draft-style discussion to identify the coolest athletes across the NFL, NBA, and Baseball, incorporating their personal views and societal perceptions.

A. NFL

• David Dennis Jr. picks: Joe Burrow
  "He has these like, credible big moments. He's ice cold." (22:26)

• Pablo Torre picks: Jalen Hurts
  Despite Pablo's choice being contested by David, the discussion revolves around Hurts' demeanor and authenticity.

• Mina Kimes picks: Lamar Jackson
  "I was thankful that you guys had picked Lamar Jackson. I love Lamar Jackson just because he... is plainly spoken." (27:08)

B. NBA

• David Dennis Jr. picks: Stephen Curry
  Noted for his style of play and authenticity: "He is one of the coolest athletes alive." (30:04)

• Mina Kimes picks: Asia Wilson (WNBA)
  She highlights the coolness of WNBA players, stating, "There are so many cool ass WNBA players that are so much cooler than NBA players." (28:57)

• Pablo Torre picks: Ja Morant (with an asterisk)
  Pablo discusses the duality of Morant's coolness juxtaposed with his controversial actions: "He is going to stay on the court... he's one of the coolest dudes ever." (31:22)

C. Baseball

• David Dennis Jr. picks: Aaron Judge (though controversially labeled as "not cool")
  "Aaron Judge is too large to be cool." (40:27)

• Mina Kimes picks: Shohei Ohtani
  Praised for his mysterious aura and exceptional skill: "Shohei... is so private that it creates this aura of its own." (38:15)

• Pablo Torre picks: Ellie De La Cruz
  Celebrated for his athletic prowess: "An all-time athlete doing cool stuff." (39:08)

4. Insights and Cultural Reflections

Generational Shifts in Coolness:
Mina Kimes reflects on how coolness is often attributed to older generations: "People who grew up admiring athletes from the past tend to deem them as the epitome of cool." (15:09). This sentiment highlights a generational disconnect in perceiving current athletes as cool.

Role of Media and Exposure:
David Dennis Jr. discusses the paradox of exposure: "No matter how cool you are, the more we see of you, the less cool you're gonna be." (20:03). He argues that excessive visibility can dilute an athlete's cool factor.

Inclusion of WNBA Players:
Mina Kimes brings attention to the WNBA, advocating that female athletes often embody coolness more authentically than their NBA counterparts: "Agent Wilson is the coolest person in basketball." (28:57). This inclusion broadens the discussion beyond traditionally male-centric sports narratives.

5. Concluding Thoughts

The hosts conclude by acknowledging the subjective nature of coolness and the evolving landscape of athlete personas. They emphasize that authenticity, originality, and a balance between on-field excellence and off-field demeanor are critical in defining an athlete's coolness.

6. Notable Quotes

• David Dennis Jr.:
  "Cool is truly in the eye of the beholder." (09:56)

• Pablo Torre:
  "Effort... feels like another anti-cool sort of aspect here." (10:47)

• Mina Kimes:
  "There are so many cool ass WNBA players that are so much cooler than NBA players." (28:57)

• David Dennis Jr.:
  "No matter how cool you are, the more we see of you, the less cool you're gonna be." (20:03)

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This episode provides a nuanced exploration of what constitutes "coolness" in the realm of professional sports, offering listeners a blend of personal opinions, cultural analysis, and lively debate on current athletic figures.

Transcript

[Pablo Torre]

Palo. I'm Pablo Torre, and this episode of Pablo Torre Finds out is brought to you by Remy Martin. 1738 Accord Royale. Exceptionally smooth cognac for all your game day festivities. Please drink responsibly because today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Are any of us cool? Do you think if people did the exercise we're about to do, anybody, they would say any of us are actually cool?

[Pablo Torre]

Right after this ad.

[Mina Kimes]

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Put us in a box.

[Pablo Torre]

Go ahead.

[Mina Kimes]

That just gives us something to break.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Out of because the next generation 2025 GMC terrain elevation is raising the standard.

[Mina Kimes]

Of what comes out of standard.

[Pablo Torre]

As far as expectations go, why meet.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Them when you can shatter them? What we choose to challenge, we challenge completely.

[Pablo Torre]

We are professional grade. Visit gmc.com to learn more.

[Mina Kimes]

This is a nice around the horn off ramp. I get to hang out with you guys. I don't is this. I'm finding myself missing hanging, missing companionship.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Wednesdays is usually when I do around the horn. I was thinking about that, actually.

[Pablo Torre]

As someone who didn't attend the around the horn. There have been a lot of tributes, I should say, to a show that we owe a lot to. I don't think I went to an around the horn conference call in a decade. So as long as we can skip that part, I am down to refashion what we missed into this.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I don't know when I stopped attending the conference call, but I definitely. Pablo was like the bad example to me. I was like, why am I doing this? Pablo's not doing it. I'm also on west coast time.

[Pablo Torre]

This is, by the way, this is how David realizes. Oh, I could have not done the conference call the whole time.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, oh, I knew the whole time. But, you know, hey, I was like, you know, being a good steward, I'm.

[Pablo Torre]

Just the look as we will get into. I'm just the cool guy. I'm. I'm Bart Simpson. You know, just skateboarding, spray painting stuff.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Are any of us cool? Do you think if. If people did the exercise we're about to do, anybody, they would say any of us are actually cool?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, we did last gather to do an entire episode about the X Men animated series reboot.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Cool.

[Pablo Torre]

So I think it's cool.

[Mina Kimes]

Don't get cooler than that, guys.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that there are some people out there who think that the three of us are cool. I think there are more people who would laugh at those people.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Have you ever been cool? Was there Ever a point in your life where you felt like you were cool? When did you peak in coolness?

[Pablo Torre]

Probably like third grade.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Third grade?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Wow.

[Pablo Torre]

Mina, what are you. You picking college?

[David Dennis Jr.]

It's definitely college for me, 100%. But a lot of that is because how cool you are is a product of your surroundings. Right. And so going to college for me, my cool factor on a relative basis skyrocketed from high school to Yale. David's nodding like he had a similar experience.

[Mina Kimes]

Absolutely. I'll just. I went to school with a bunch of dorky white kids. Small liberal arts school. I was the coolest. I was the coolest now. Yeah, I went the like the pendulum swaying so drastically from high school to college. I didn't know what to do with myself.

[Pablo Torre]

This is also where I need to remind people, Mina, that David Dennis Jr. Is a former beer pong partner of his classmate at Davidson, Steph Curry. So he is both observer.

[Mina Kimes]

He wasn't cool when I was there either. So that he wasn't cool to like the last two. Two weeks of my. My time at Davidson.

[Pablo Torre]

But you, David, David Dennis Jr. Was the original Splash brother. This is reported fact. This is real. This is not an exaggeration. Also, I am now banning officially Nick Wright. I just want to say you, Nick Wright, you're off the show. We can get into that a separate time based on cool.

[David Dennis Jr.]

You're banning him because he's not cool?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, Mina, also because he did this to you today, do you have any other media beefs going on right now?

[Mina Kimes]

At present, for the eighth straight year, first things first. Was not nominated for best studio show.

[Pablo Torre]

Weekly at the sports Emmys.

[Mina Kimes]

When I saw the list of nominations.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't remember all of them, but one of them was NFL Live hosted.

[Mina Kimes]

By one of my media rivals, Mina Kimes. And when I saw they won, I was very happy because I think that.

[Pablo Torre]

They do a really good job and.

[Mina Kimes]

I think Mina's excellent. Obviously I don't think she's as good.

[Pablo Torre]

As me at anything, but I do.

[Mina Kimes]

Think she is excellent and I was happy she won. Is this why he's trying to grow his hair like Mina's or is that a different.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Nick Wright has been trying to do this whole rivalry thing with me now for four or five years. And honestly, it's like, I don't know what's a good comp.

[Mina Kimes]

It's giving Kobe stopper. Ruben Patterson era Kobe stopper.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, wow. Wow.

[Mina Kimes]

That's what I'm getting from it. That's. That's the.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I saw A tweet that when Brock Purdy signed his contract, where they were like, brock Purdy joins, like, a right, like rivals Josh Allen. And like, maybe that's. Brock Purdy's great, Mick's great. But, like, come on, let's. Let's get real here.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, both. Both. Mr. Irrelevant, I dare say.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Hey, his show is really good.

[Pablo Torre]

All right, fine. Let's start the actual show. So the thing I wanted to start with, guys, is, in fact, a case study in cool. And it started on Substack, which is not the coolest place for things to start, but there's an anonymous author who goes by the handle of Oxportello, which is, I believe, a reference to Inherent Vice, already setting sort of like the highbrow kind of illusions ending here. We know we're harkening back with David. We asked David to read this. David, your initial review of the piece.

[Mina Kimes]

Was, in brief, I don't know, like, half the references that he made in the article.

[David Dennis Jr.]

So there's.

[Mina Kimes]

I had to look up what is. What's the. The vape thing that everybody.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Internet Zen.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, the Zen and Zinternet. I don't know what that was. I didn't read the cut article that was referenced in there. It was like a subsection of the Internet that I'm not familiar with at all.

[Pablo Torre]

It's.

[David Dennis Jr.]

You know, white people have culture, too, David.

[Mina Kimes]

Thank you, Mina. That's sort of where I was. It was a very much like, cultures matter.

[Pablo Torre]

All cultures matter. But the. The thing that got this going viral around the NBA Internet, at the very least, was one statement in particular that I. I think is consensus, and it was articulated thusly, quote, for as long as I can remember, the NBA has served as a cultural North Star. These NBA playoffs portend a crisis of cool. And he goes on to analyze Jalen Brunson and Tyrese Halliburton and Shay Gilge Alexander, categorizing them as uncool, which I would like us to discuss. Anthony Edwards sort of sticks out as, quote, the exception proving the rule of cool, that actually he is somebody who is so alone in his coolness that the others who are variously, I would say, try hard, meme lords who seem to be imitative of previous imitations even there was a bunch of that. And so I just want to start, Mina, by actually articulating what do we mean by cool? How do we even define this? Because, yes, it is one, I believe, white blogger's opinion that the categories flow as such. But I do think there's something he's getting at here that's worth talking about.

[David Dennis Jr.]

The so cool is the perfect debate subject because no one can actually define it. Cool is truly in the eye of the beholder. However, when he says something like Tyrese Halbert and Jalen Brunson are not cool. Anthony Edwards is cool. I imagine we all nodded as we read that because it immediately reads as correct. So starting from that point, it's not just about play. I think we can all agree upon that there's a certain vibe, what the kids call aura. I would argue this piece gets at something that is both true and does actually help us arrive at a definition of cool. When he talked about how a lot of these guys and he mentioned Haliburton and of course tat are their sense of what is cool is just kind of memeing other things, right? It's derivative. I think cool is original. I think part of the reason why Ananthy Edwards feels cool is because he does not seem to be emulating anyone either. You know, in his sense of self, the way he speaks, what he. In fact he thinks he's better than everybody, which doesn't that in itself. You don't have to be super egotistical or whatever.

[Pablo Torre]

He was almost too cool for basketball. I mean, he was a quarterback, right? He played football. He was like, football's actually the thing that I'm like great at for a while, you know.

[Mina Kimes]

He was too cool for Barack Hussein Obama. He looked at Obama and said, stand down, son. Like he was a 12 year old child. Yo, K. LeBron, come on, listen.

[Pablo Torre]

Are y' all talking to this young man? Cause he just keeps on right now. He just said he's the truth and all that. And the truth, the whole truth of nothing but the truth.

[Mina Kimes]

You asked him, you tell him the whole context of the situation though. You asked him what he think about this young man and he said I'm okay. I said I'm the truth. He trippin' that's what happened.

[Pablo Torre]

What's wrong with that?

[David Dennis Jr.]

So funny. So funny. But I think that if I had to isolate one variable, it is authenticity and originality. Would you guys agree with that?

[Mina Kimes]

Yes. Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

I would add one wrinkle, David, which is also. And I resemble this at times and I am trying to be self aware about this at times. Try hardness, like somebody who really wants to be cool. Effort, transparency of effort feels like another anti cool sort of aspect here. Yeah. What would you add to that?

[Mina Kimes]

I think, yeah, I think that's important. The try hardness is also is important. But also I Think that, like, I'm not sure that these dudes are any less cool than the people who came before them. I think that we're just not sort of distilling, like, there's not a way to distill their personalities in the way that we had. Like, immediately when I'm thinking about coolness in the NBA, I'm thinking of, like, slam covers. And, like, we're sort of missing this packaging of how players are supposed to be kind of cooler than they may or may not have been, right? Like, there. A lot of these dudes are like, AAU guys who just played basketball for all, you know, for a lot of time, which is different than, like, some of the guys from the 90s who also just went to school and, like, hung out with friends and, like, created their own culture and came from different regions and different regionality with different cultures and. And these guys just play basketball all the time. And I think there's this belief that if we just see them on social media, we get to know the real them, which I didn't really get to know the real versions of a lot of these dudes. What I saw was these cool packaged Nike ads or Reebok ads or slam covers. And this way that cool was, like, disseminated to us. Like, think about somebody like Reggie Miller, who you got the choke, and he was like this kind of, like, kind of annoying dude, but, like, he had this quote unquote aura. And then he gets, like, unfettered mic time for three hours on TV as a color commentator, and everybody's like, shut up, Reggie Miller, we hate you. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's. And, you know, Reggie Miller is great and all that stuff, but, like, that's kind of what. What it became because, like, he had this, like, barrier and this packaging that created cool in a way that a lot of these athletes do not have right now. We just get their social media personalities, and they're mic'd up, and we, like, see Jalen Brown being like, we're not wizards, we're Harry Potter. I think I'll be playing with the energy, they. The magic. But who really got the magic over here? I like it. No, Harry Potter, you know, like, we get a lot of that what we didn't get before.

[Pablo Torre]

There's also one thing, Mina, I think, which is that we are look the NBA as this, like, cultural barometer of cool as the piece sort of leads with. Part of that is as these things become increasingly corporate, as these things are like, you know, lineages that are increasingly formalized, as David was alluding to. We also get further away from what might be the fundamental tenet of cool that we haven't mentioned yet, which is I think that you have to be kind of anti authority. You kind of have to be subversive. So like, to me, the coolest figure when it comes to the modern NBA that we have been sort of circling implicitly without naming him is Allen Iverson.

[Mina Kimes]

So that brings up the qu. So I have a question for both, for both of you, for all of us to ask, which is sort of a central part of this piece. Like what? When you guys think of coolest athletes that you've ever experienced, who. Who comes to mind?

[David Dennis Jr.]

I love this question. Iverson's definitely up there in basketball. This my football example. And I think this cuts to Pablo's theory. I think Marshawn lynch is probably the cool. He might be the coolest human of his generation, but definitely the coolest football player. Just everything about him, from style of play to the anti authority aspect, to the way he spoke and carried himself to like, the lore around him. I would contend that Ken Griffey Jr. Is on the Mount Rushmore of cool athletes in any sport of any generation. And was. And you hit that apex because he. He was actually one of the best of all time and had this glow about him where you just saw him and you wanted to be him. Granted, we were the target generation for that, but there was just something about him. The way he played, the joy with which he played, the way he swung his bat, the way he wore his hat, the way he moved, the way.

[Pablo Torre]

He played with the Seattle Mariners for mena times growing up.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Okay, I actually asked Cortez for a clip. I want you to watch this and tell me that any athlete has ever looked cooler than Ken Griffey Jr. Looks in this clip.

[Pablo Torre]

Here's the pitch.

[Mina Kimes]

There's a drive.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Hey, I'm sorry, but if you ever need to define aura, just play that five second clip right there.

[Pablo Torre]

Just the dolly shot, pushing in on Ken Grieve Jr. Winking and breaking. Shattering the fourth wall with a wink is.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, no athlete has ever looked cooler than that. Right there.

[Mina Kimes]

This reminds me, this article and this whole idea reminds me kind of like when I was coming up in the hip hop blogs and I was reading like the New Yorker and there were like older dudes writing about, like telling me what was cool and like, what, like Lil Wayne rhymed like Nigerian hair with whatever, like you should like him. And it's like, well, you know and so I think what fundamentally, as humans, you're going to always think is cool are people who are older than you, who grew up like, who you grew up admiring and who you grew up wanting to be like. And I think for us as near 40 year olds, I don't think we can really determine what's cool or like, none of these athletes are going to be cool. Like no. 20, I don't think that any 24 year old is cool. There's not going to be a 24 or 25 year old that I will ever think is cool ever again. Like, my dad is never, my dad is never like Michael Jordan is cool. He's like Elgin Baylor was the coolest basketball player ever because that's who he wanted to be.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I think there's young football players who are cool actually, David, but to your earlier point, some of that is limited exposure. Right. Like we don't really see them as much. They are naturally kept at a little bit of a distance from us. The helmet, they're not as present as basketball players. They don't talk as much.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[David Dennis Jr.]

So I think that helps their cause.

[Pablo Torre]

But I do want to do a thing in a second here where we are going to draft the coolest athletes across at least the three major sports in the present day. So we're going to put this to the test. I'm going to see that in your brains. We don't have to do it just yet, but we will answer and test David's theory about whether we are just afflicted with clinical old headitis and cannot possibly actually consider a young person cool. I also want to add a wrinkle as we assess the criteria here for the committee of our audience to judge us because on field play, right? So are we saying that that is, that is clearly not separate and apart. It is involved in the calculation. Right.

[David Dennis Jr.]

The reason why on field play matters and as we do this like cool thing or try to figure out who the coolest guys are, is there's nothing cooler for a professional athlete than being unbelievable at your sport and then backing it up with how you present yourself. And I think when we talk about the top guys, Griffey, Iverson, lynch, they hit that. It's a very elusive, very elusive bar.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, but so just the greatness though, right? Like what does that get you? So Michael Jordan I think is a very reasonable answer. A very popular might be the number one answer when people think of the coolest basketball player of all time because he both as a marketing vehicle was unprecedented for the obvious Nike etc reasons and every other sponsor thing, right, for. For our generation also because when it came to be the most pressurized moments, he had the greatest legend and arguably the greatest performance. So there's that. But then we get to, for instance, like to. To discern a bit of the. Of the lineage when it comes to Kobe. I'm like, I think there are lots of people who think that Kobe is cool, but I see an imitation of Michael Jordan and I'm like, okay, I'm going to dock points for that. I think Kobe is. Was as great as he was a legendary tryhard by the time that he became the guy who was branding all of his mamba stuff. Which is to say that I think the answers to the draft as we go around in a. In some sort of order. David, There's a I know it when I see it definition as opposed to like some strict criteria. For better and for worse.

[Mina Kimes]

Can I dump out a hot take real quick, please? I'm not sure Michael Jordan was that cool. Like, I'm sorry. Like, when we. When you watch the last dance and you like, this dude is like talking to his baseball bat and he's like jamming to Anita Baker before the playoffs. Like, this dude is not that. Like, I remember way, way back he did an interview and this sticks out to me so much. Like, he did some sort of interview and they were like, what is your favorite artist? I mean, this age is poorly, but, you know, for other reasons. But he was like, Robert Kelly. And I was like, who calls him Robert Kelly? Like. Like who? Like, I don't know. Like, there's just so many things about Michael Jordan that I'm just like, it was all ads, all this stuff. Like, is Michael Jordan actually really cool? And by. By, you know, extension of that is Kobe Bryant even less cool because he wanted to be like Michael Jordan, who is not even cool.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Where's that Leaf Tatum who's doing the third. Third round of beaming? I think you. You hit on just like the more we see of someone, the less then it's just. There's an absolutely an inverse relationship between exposure and coolness. And no amount of. No matter how cool you are, the more we see of you, the less cool you're gonna be.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Mina Kimes]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[David Dennis Jr.]

Go.

[Pablo Torre]

Should we get this draft going?

[David Dennis Jr.]

So current players, right? Current athletes, you have to be active.

[Pablo Torre]

I think we should do coolest player per sport for the three biggest sports. So we each pick one. So we're each going to draft our. Our pick for who we think the coolest is. And if someone has drafted them, we cannot take them. And we will show our results at the end because I love. I love a draft chart results.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I'm gonna say this one and this is a player who I've gotten a lot of grief from their fan base because I consistently have him behind two other quarterbacks in football votes and whatnot. But I think Joe Burrow is incredibly cool.

[Pablo Torre]

He has the nickname he.

[David Dennis Jr.]

No, yeah, right. But he plays cool. He has these like, credible big moments. He's ice cold. And the way presents on and off the field is legitimately cool. I. I really believe that.

[Pablo Torre]

Counterpoint. Counterpoint. I don't think Joe Burrow saying stuff is cool. I don't think Joe Burrow says cool stuff. I think he does cool stuff on the field. I think that is. Does he what?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, he knows all the words to get the G from his time at lsu. So I think that's pretty cool.

[David Dennis Jr.]

The championship picture is one of the coolest pictures ever taken of him smoking cigar. But I would say, like he. The way he talks when he's interviewed, he's not very. He limits his exposure, which is what cool guys do. When he speaks, like he puts pressure on his organization to do stuff, he's pretty plain spoken. I. Yeah, I like. I think Lamar Jackson is the coolest football player. Player to watch. But I don't think he has enough of a Persona for me.

[Pablo Torre]

So Lamar gets. Okay, so I'll go next. Second, Lamar has the anti authority thing going. The fact that he doesn't have a conventional agent, for better and for worse, I don't know if that's cool in the classic sense, but it's sort of like a you to the way that like football and business tends to operate. So the case for Lamar is. Is strong. But I think I'm gonna go. Jalen hurts.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Oh, terrible choice, David. David, Horrible choice. David.

[Pablo Torre]

Tell me where I'm wrong. Tell me where I'm wrong.

[Mina Kimes]

Okay, you go, Mina go. Go for it. Go for it.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I don't know. Can I use the word unk first of all, can I need a reeling? I need a ruling from my compatriot here. Jalen Hurts, I think is an amazing person and I'm a huge fan of his in a million different ways. But he is not cool. Like he dresses and acts like a 45 year old man.

[Mina Kimes]

He's not. He's. He's lean. He leans in to 90s fine. Like that is his whole personality. Like he is. He is living single era fine man.

[Pablo Torre]

So far I'm waiting for the problem. I remain waiting for the problem. That again I Have you heard him in interviews.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He said speaks in cliches. He speaks in like football talk. He has no. He has the ultimate. It's funny because he just did something that you could say it was anti authority. So he.

[Pablo Torre]

That's what I'm thinking about. Yeah.

[David Dennis Jr.]

But for the most part, the man when he was in college, I believe said he related to Nick Saban.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, that's uncool. I think that's pretty.

[Mina Kimes]

I think the only.

[Pablo Torre]

I didn't have that in my oppo research file.

[Mina Kimes]

The thing that helps Jaylen Hurts is that now he stands next to Saquan Barkley for the rest of the season. And by virtue of that, he is going to be the coolest dude because he is an anti Saquon Barkley and I think that that's going to elevate him way further than he would have been otherwise. The thing that'll get Jalen Hurts that. That the test is and I don't know how this has not happened yet. How has he not gone through the Jennifer Hudson tunnel yet?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Because he has good management who will not reveal that to the world.

[Mina Kimes]

That's going to make or break him. When he goes through that tunnel, we'll.

[David Dennis Jr.]

See what kind of football players have gone through that tunnel, right?

[Mina Kimes]

No, I don't think we have one.

[Pablo Torre]

He's going to go through that tunnel. Oh, my God. Hold on. There's. There's a reference. I'm going to pull out and. And go.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Have you guys thought about what you do if you had to go through the tunnel?

[Pablo Torre]

First off, that. That is a show that I only know, of course, because of the tunnel. It's. I don't know what else happens on the Jennifer Roson show. I assume good stuff happens. I just know it as the tunnel. I did see recently Randall park go through the tunnel, if you recall him, Asian dude. And he proceeded to, like, do a mixture of. We'll show this in post. A mixture of, like, sort of like popping and locking, where I was like, I would aspire to do that and not be nearly as good.

[David Dennis Jr.]

And Asian dudes who can dance constantly go viral for crushing the tunnel. This is my algorithm. Like, the dude from the White Lotus guy talk crushed it in the tunnel.

[Mina Kimes]

The. The. Here's the thing about the Jennifer Hudson tunnel that is fascinating is that they manage to know the algorithms, because I don't think I've seen a single white person go through the tunnel. And then when I talk to white folks about the Jennifer Hudson tunnel, they reference white people went through.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I'm getting Asians and, like, the hot guy from Lion King.

[Mina Kimes]

Constant. Right? I don't know. That's.

[Pablo Torre]

I did see Usher go through it on skits, and I was like, serial comment section.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Okay, sorry, Stevie, what's your pick?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, what's your. What.

[Mina Kimes]

What do you got? My pick here. Lamar Jackson. Okay, just like, I was. I was thankful that you guys had picked Lamar Jackson. I love Lamar Jackson just because I think there's also this, like, unfiltered interview that, like, is part of it. And also he has an unfair advantage. His name is Lamar Jackson. Like, it's like, like, come on.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Like, style of play gets him, like, 95% of the way there because he is absolutely the coolest. This episode is brought to you by ebay. We all have that piece, the one that's so you. You've basically become known for it. And if you don't yet, fashionistas, you'll find it on ebay. That Miu Miu red leather bomber, the cousteau Barcelona cowboy top. Or that Patagonia fleece in the 2017 colorway. All these finds are all on ebay, along with millions of more main character pieces backed by authenticity guarantee. Ebay is the place for pre. Loved and vintage fashion, ebay things. People love.

[Pablo Torre]

The NBA. David, we're gonna snake draft it go the other way.

[Mina Kimes]

Are we doing NBA or we're doing basketball? Because here's the thing that, that I, that I also got out of this article that we started this whole thing from. This seems to be a male centric problem because there are like 15 or 20 cool ass WNBA players that I'm obsessed with at all times. And so if I had to pick all of basketball, my number one pick would be Agent Wilson. Because she's like the coolest person in basketball. I think right now. She's like an incredible interview. She won the championship and talked about all the tequila shots she was going to drink.

[Pablo Torre]

You have to take four shots. Children take shots of ginger ale, but you got to take four shots before you pull up to the parade and drink responsibly.

[Mina Kimes]

She has the new shoe out, which helps. She has the like really cool Internet soft launch, hard launch, bam at a bio thing going on. She's the best player in the world by a large margin. And I just don't think that this article really applies to women. Really. Like, there are so many cool ass women athletes and there's a larger thing to discuss, I think about like women and, and how they, you know, drive the culture and like make stuff cool in a way that guys kind of are not doing. Which goes to the Zen and the manosphere and all that stuff. But like, there are so many cool ass WNBA players that are so much cooler than NBA players. And Asia would be my number one pick in basketball by far.

[David Dennis Jr.]

They've also been cool for a while, I think is the other thing, right? Like this isn't like, oh, wow, all of a sudden we have this like cool new generation. Obviously the WNBA is exploding popularity, but Diana Tarazzi is one of the coolest humans to walk this.

[Pablo Torre]

He does, by the way. An awesome at a microphone does not give a fuck.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Is incredible, but meets the parameters I established earlier.

[Pablo Torre]

And the greatest of all time.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Goat player. Yeah, one of the goat players backed it up. Great on the mic. Very. She might be on my round.

[Mina Kimes]

Rushmore of cool great at social media. All these WNBA players are great at social media. Like, the more we know them, the more we get to like them.

[Pablo Torre]

So Steph not even a consideration for you? Like you're like, Nah, not even. No, like, because Steph is the ultimate example to me of playing style getting you on the list. Not number one, but just like on the list.

[Mina Kimes]

I think he is absolutely one of the coolest players he has a cool celebration. He's like, probably the most like old school. I'm gonna text or call somebody when he's doing something dope.

[Pablo Torre]

Even though he's a Nepo baby. Even though he's.

[Mina Kimes]

He's always. Even though he's a Nepo baby. But like Steph has always had this, like, I think the, the arc of coolness has shifted more towards him.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Authenticity, again, is kind of the driving.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I think that's, that's fair. Influence. I was just at so influential. Yeah.

[David Dennis Jr.]

A friend's house who has two small boys and they're both into basketball, like 6 and 4. And I asked them, which player would you want to play with him? Like, play like. And both said Steph. And it's like, wow, we're still on. It's still going. You know, they're not saying lamello or Ja, but.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, that brings me to my pick because my pick is John Morant with an asterisk.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that's. Look the unsaid thing in this right there for him.

[David Dennis Jr.]

So sad.

[Pablo Torre]

It was it. Everyone was ready. I had a friend who worked on. It's part of the Nike campaign that they were doing for Jaw as all of this stuff was unfolding and they had to blow it up and make it less cool because they had to make it so that actually John Morant was more palatable to an audience that expected him to be a massive up who loved playing with guns. Like, there is a line beyond which you go too far. And as much as the anti authority thing is, is part of it, like he. At a certain point you gotta know when to just stop. And that's where it became untenable.

[Mina Kimes]

I think John Moran is fine, guys. Like, I just think that like, if he played better, it'd be fine. Like, you know, like if he came back and was healthy and they had like deep playoff runs. Yeah, like, I'm just, I, like I. I just don't think you're gonna get a whole bunch of people who are just gonna get too upset about like people liking guns in this country. You know what I'm saying? Like this dude, you know, like people.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Have forgotten and forgiven way.

[Mina Kimes]

Yes.

[David Dennis Jr.]

In all these sports talking about.

[Mina Kimes]

Exactly. And like, we're not going to finger wag at a dude and his love of guns and the bad. And you know, there's a lot more. It's more complicated and complicated.

[Pablo Torre]

It's more. It's more like, can you stay on the court? Is my concern.

[Mina Kimes]

Right. I think, yeah. I think if he came back from this thing. And the Grizzlies, or if the Grizzlies are playing now, for instance. Right. And he's playing in the conference finals, I think he's fine. And like, whatever. You lose your Nike campaign, whatever. I think he's still in a point where he's one of the coolest dudes ever. The problem is you're still doing this, like, anti authority celebration when you're not that good or good enough to warrant it. Right now, I think that's probably the big problem.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I do think the anti authority aspect of him, it feels. He doesn't feel as cool. I mean, for obvious reasons, but also it just doesn't. It feels a little bit. And this cuts to the original premise of this piece is a little bit cosplay in a way that I think is something we sniff out with a lot of people. Whether they're cosplaying, you know, gestures or Kobe imitators or being anti authority. There is a sense of like, is this really you like what you doing, bud? My pick is, I think to certainly corroborates the thesis of no younger players. Is an older guy. I'm gonna go Dame. I think Dame is one of the coolest athletes alive. Obviously, he isn't the end.

[Pablo Torre]

What do you.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I think of the hardest NBA photo, one of them of all time, which is the game winner okc. Looking at the camera. I mean, I know I said earlier that no one has better looked ever cooler than Griffey, but like I was.

[Pablo Torre]

Gonna say, Mina has a clear thing for who she thinks is cool. It's looking into a camera.

[David Dennis Jr.]

If you do something cool and look straight into a camera, you're probably cool. But David, that photo, I mean, come on, it's.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah, I mean, that's cool. I mean, also another great celebration.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, another great.

[Mina Kimes]

And the. And the very, very rare accomplishment of being an athlete who raps and people still respect you. Like, that's. That's one thing that. That.

[Pablo Torre]

That is hard.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. That usually docks off a ton of points if you're trying to rap, but he got Lil Wayne on his album.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I am also realizing a lot of my picks are really handsome guys. Also, like, does make you cool. Cooler.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, I picked Asia Wilson, so I get it. Samesies.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, Jalen hurts guys is clearly a beautiful person. Beautiful, objectively beautiful person. Okay, so baseball. Are we ready to move on to baseball or any other takes we want to get off? One side? One. Actually one. One side. Brief postscript take about the NBA because David you were hinting at this before and Mina as well. Like, as much as the current generation of NBA players might be starving for cool in the way that bloggers and others will approve of, if you go through like, is LeBron cool?

[Mina Kimes]

I don't think so.

[David Dennis Jr.]

LeBron's like an iPhone. Like he's too, no, he's like too much of a monolith. It's like Taylor Swift, you know, like it's too, it's too big.

[Pablo Torre]

He's a literal corporation who is also trying very hard at all times. But if you just go through the list of like Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, James Harden, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Paul George, I'm going through just like all NBA caliber guys. It's not like we have been dealing with a bumper crop of the previous generation where it's like, man, those guys check all the boxes.

[Mina Kimes]

You know, I mean we can get in the second apron and players moving around and stuff like that. But I think a lot of the players that we all thought were the coolest were not necessarily the best players in the game. Right? Yeah, Rasheed Wallace, like, yeah, there's the Rasheed Wallace. There's like, you know like J.R. ryder and the between the legs dunk or like, you know, Gary Payton who was all, you know, this all NBA was never like the best player in the world. He was just a cool ass player. You know, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, like those type of dudes were always really cool and we loved them. We collected their basketball cards. We like did all this stuff that, that you know, we loved about them. The Clippers, the like Quentin Q. Rich Clippers and all that. Darius Miles and them. Like those are people that we love that were not necessarily the best in the world. And I think that like it kind of shortens our list and like the potential of who we're going to pick if we're only looking at all NBA players. That's never always been the case about who we think is great. It's also good to note that like we did have a draft and neither one of us really picked an NBA player. Like we kind of picked like an old, like a dame who's not going to play and AJ Wilson who's not in the league and Ja who's like.

[David Dennis Jr.]

The guy's argument checks out. Yeah, definitely our picks kind of illustrated for him. Baseball's very top heavy.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean I think the question do.

[David Dennis Jr.]

I get to pick first?

[Pablo Torre]

Mina goes first. And there is a question that I'm wondering if she will ask out loud. As she makes her first pick.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Well, there's two guys, I think, who are clearly the two coolest guys in baseball. That's how I feel. So I'm deciding between the two of them. I'm taking Mookie here.

[Pablo Torre]

He's just so cool.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He is a joy to. He's an amazing player. He's a joy to watch. He seems like a legitimately awesome dude, but he's funny. And he, to me, has the close is the closest thing in spirit to Griffey in this generation.

[Pablo Torre]

He's also really good at bowling, and I want to unpack whether that makes him cool or not, because he is like a professional caliber bowler. He has bowled a 300.

[Mina Kimes]

Another wildly attractive person.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He knows to keep that hat on. You know, he's playing the right sport. That's true. I am. I am taking only hotties. I wanted to take. Speaking of hotties, Julio Rodriguez, but I can't. The homer allegations would be too strong.

[Pablo Torre]

Are we. Are we saying definitively because Mina brought us to the. To the team in question, like Shohei Ohtani, not cool?

[David Dennis Jr.]

I think he's cool.

[Mina Kimes]

I think he's cool. I think Shohei. He was my pick. Shohei was my pick. Don't want to skip over Pablo. He's my pick. I think just virtue of being. I think that sometimes it's virtue of just being good as hell. And the dopest at your sport goes a long way. And we also have a barrier. We don't know that much about him.

[David Dennis Jr.]

This mysterious.

[Mina Kimes]

This mysterious dude who just goes, does.

[Pablo Torre]

He have a crippling gambling addiction? You know, these are ongoing mysteries. Yes.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He also, even when he is not playing, just watching him, like, move in the world. A lot of this is carried by just his. How physically imposing he is.

[Pablo Torre]

He is enormous.

[David Dennis Jr.]

He has, like, star power and he's incredibly handsome.

[Mina Kimes]

And. And watching other baseball players react to him also makes him cool because it is like Ohtani is like when Beyonce walks in the room.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, right, right, right, right. People are in awe of the sound that the ball makes off his bat. People are in awe of his physical stature. People are in awe that he can do any of this. He also is, I think, to the earlier point, like, so private that it creates this aura of its own.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Being private is cool.

[Pablo Torre]

I think. I think we're learning that too. Like, being less online on some level actually does in this era. Yeah. It creates the intrigue that I think rates is cool. I think I gotta go with. I'm looking at his age right now. To, to invalidate David's theory about how we can't really respect young people as we continue to draft some young people. I'm going. Ellie De La Cruz, great player. He's, he's, he's not like, again, household name necessarily, but he should be if you like baseball in any vague way. He stole a zillion bases. He had 20, I think was 25 and 65, was the first shortstop to ever do it. And that dude playing in the Cincinnati region, I'm like, yeah, I think that's, that feels like conventional. Like that's just an all time athlete doing cool stuff. And I select him.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Aaron Judge, not cool.

[Pablo Torre]

I want to say, what's the difference.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Between an Aaron Judge and.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I think, I think there's kind of a. There's almost like a parallel to like sneaker sales to me where like the guys who are too large aren't as cool. Like no one's really. I mean, the big man, Aaron, Aaron Judge is too large, I think, to be cool. Jazz Chisholm, though, on the Yankees is cool and has like, you know, speed and flair and all that.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah, being okay. This actually connects to Steph and Dame and being small and being really, really good elite at a sport is a real fast track to being cool because there's like an underdog aspect to it that instantly makes you cool.

[Mina Kimes]

And just the style of play, just like crossing people over lends itself to more like acrobatics. Like the people I mentioned, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, those guys, like we grew up loving those dudes. Like point guards. Point guards are just going to lend themselves to being cool nine times out of ten.

[Pablo Torre]

Is Jokic cool? Is Nicola Jokic? Who? Oh, Mina's shaking your head no, immediately. He doesn't care. He's not effortful in the way that we expect athletes to care. But he's also clearly. Yeah, I think he's one of the most skilled players in NBA history. Why isn't he cool? Big man. Is it the big man thing?

[Mina Kimes]

I think part of it's the big man thing. Part of it, I think is that I don't think people, you know, as superficial as it sounds, I don't think people aspire to look like him. You know, I think there's like this feeling of, yeah, he shows up to work and he just kind of doesn't care and he leaves and goes, does his horses and everything. I think there's something to that. I actually think if he were a little bit worse at basketball, he'd be more popular. I just think, like, he's almost, like, too good. It's like, you know, like, it just. What a great take, because I think, like. Like, when I think about, like, Shaq. Right, Like, Shaq. One of the things about Shaq that was so relatable to me, especially, like, is that this dude was dominant. But you always felt like he could be a little better if he just didn't want to, like, break dance and rapid DJ as much, but, like, he kind of wanted to break dance and rapid DJ a little bit more. So it'd be like. It'd be like if Jokic were a little bit worse and be like, this.

[Pablo Torre]

Dude cares about horses than any in a movie.

[Mina Kimes]

Right? Right. Yeah. If you could draw a little bit worse, he'd be more popular. He's just too good to be popular.

[Pablo Torre]

So I want to recap what we've done here today in the NFL. The three coolest players as appointed by the three of us. Number one, Mina Kimes took Joe Burrow. Number two, I took Jalen Hurts with and parentheses I want next to it with Kangal. Kangal is essential. And number three, David Dennis Jr. Took Lamar Jackson. What did we do for the NBA? Who remembers what we did? Oh, David. Right. It was David Dennis Jr. Number one, Agent Wilson, me. Number two, John Morant. Asterisk, number three. My picks are great so far. Number three, Mina Kimes. Dame Lillard looking into the camera like Jim Halpert or Randall Park. And then baseball. Number one, Mina took Mookie Betts. Number two, I took Ellie de la Cruz. And number three, David Dennis Jr.

[Mina Kimes]

Took Shohei Ohtani.

[Pablo Torre]

Damn. How did. How did. David out Asian us Not gonna.

[David Dennis Jr.]

David ended up with Lamar Jackson, AJ Wilson, and Shohei Ohtani. He kind of bodied this draft.

[Pablo Torre]

I wound up with a Kangal and potentially future gun charges, which is suboptimal, I guess.

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. I want. I want the graphics to have each of the names by. By our. You know, who we picked, and so that it could be in graphic immortality that I spoke to you guys in this draft.

[Pablo Torre]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Ebglis. After an initial dosing phase of 16.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Weeks, about 4 in 10 people taking.

[Pablo Torre]

EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing. Eglis Lebricizumab LBKZ a 250mg per 2ml.

[Mina Kimes]

Injection is a prescription medicine used to.

[Pablo Torre]

Treat adults and children 12 year old.

[Mina Kimes]

Of age and older who weigh at.

[Pablo Torre]

Least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with.

[Mina Kimes]

Prescription therapies used on the skin or.

[Pablo Torre]

Topicals or who cannot use topical therapies.

[Mina Kimes]

EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids.

[Pablo Torre]

Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur.

[Mina Kimes]

Tell your doctor if you have new.

[Pablo Torre]

Or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with ebglis.

[Mina Kimes]

Before starting ebglis, tell your doctor if.

[Pablo Torre]

You have a parasitic infection searching for real relief. Ask your doctor about epglis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. At the end of every episode of Babladori Finds out, we go around and say what we found out today after having a, I would say pretty in depth discussion of cool. Mina, what did you find out?

[David Dennis Jr.]

I found out that I didn't have time to get in a mention of my podcast with David Dennis Jr. But I'm gonna talk about it right here y' all, if you're still listening. David and I have been doing this Love is Blind pod now for a few couple years. We've done three seasons now. David, is that right? Yeah, yeah. And it's a YouTube show and it became a podcast and we enjoyed doing it so much that we are expanding into a ongoing general TV and entertainment show which you can watch on YouTube.com enakimes or you can subscribe to. The new name of the show is Viewer Discretion with Mina Kimes And David Dennis Jr. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

I like that.

[David Dennis Jr.]

The first show we will be recapping is the upcoming season of Love island, but we are going to be doing non reality shows. Non, you know, romantic shows as well. However, Love island really last season was one of the greatest seasons of reality television ever made. For those who don't know, Odell Beckham Jr. S brother Juan what cool.

[Mina Kimes]

What's a cool dude?

[David Dennis Jr.]

Actually extremely cool. Cordell Beckham, who's now kind of more than OBJ in certain circles. But anyways, go check it out. Viewer discretion. You can just look up my name, you can look up David's name and give us a subscribe rate and review.

[Pablo Torre]

What I found out, David, is that Mina also showed up to today's episode of Pablo Torre finds out with multiple clips. And so there is a clip from, I believe, one of the reality shows in question that Cortez could not be more excited about. And I have no idea what this is, so I'm about to find out right now.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Do you ever get told you look like a celebrity?

[Mina Kimes]

Yeah. Do you? I do.

[Pablo Torre]

I get too.

[David Dennis Jr.]

All the time on the plane. I get one person and it's just.

[Pablo Torre]

Because I have dark hair and blue eyes.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Ooh.

[Mina Kimes]

But I don't see it.

[Pablo Torre]

So don't get excited. Excited.

[Mina Kimes]

Say it.

[Pablo Torre]

What's he writing down in that notebook.

[David Dennis Jr.]

MG I don't even know if it's MGK's wife or his girlfriend.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, no.

[Mina Kimes]

Megan Fox. You're saying he looks like Megan Fox? It's just because I have light eyes and dark hair.

[Pablo Torre]

That's the only reason.

[David Dennis Jr.]

There's nothing else. At least I'm assuming so.

[Mina Kimes]

I mean, oh, listen, can we get married, buddy? What'd you say?

[Pablo Torre]

So I guess I should. I. It's been whispered into my ear because I didn't realize this until some. Until Rob whispered it. They can't see each other at that point.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Yeah. Because there is a wall proposed to Megan Fox. Yeah.

[Mina Kimes]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

And so I. I am told now reliably, we have the reveal when they can.

[David Dennis Jr.]

Oh, God.

[Mina Kimes]

Oh, no. Sort of like hit on looks, but not for you. She definitely lied to me on. On some how she looked.

[Pablo Torre]

Chelsea told me she looked like Megan Fox.

[Mina Kimes]

But, you know, at the end.

[Pablo Torre]

Of the day, it doesn't really matter.

[Mina Kimes]

I. I'm very attracted to her. I. I can work with that.

[Pablo Torre]

What an emotional roller coaster. That guy, so sweaty.

[Mina Kimes]

Is the cruelest edit I've ever seen in a reality show.

[David Dennis Jr.]

You also didn't get to see when they meet. There's a moment where he has a Jim Halpert look to the camera right after meeting her when they hug. That is one of the most themed moments in love is Blind history. David and I have probably spent no less than three hours breaking down the Megan Pops moment. If you're into that sort of thing. If you like listening to two people who treat these shows like the game tape that it deserves to be treated like, check out our podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you both for helping me find out more than I bargained for.

[David Dennis Jr.]

You're welcome.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo staring into the camera and Wink. Pablo Torre finds out is produced by Walter Averoma Ryan, Craig Cortez, Sam Dawig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, neely Loman, Rob McRae, Rachel Miller, Howard Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tominiello and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems. Our sound design by NGW Post. Our theme song, as always, by John Bravo. We will talk to you, Sam.