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- [00:02]
Dan
You're listening to DraftKings Network.
- [00:11]
Atsuko Okatsuka
When you have high standards and fancy all the fancy things like a Dior saddlebag or that diamond tennis bracelet, you go to ebay. There you'll find new loves that will never disappoint. Expertly authenticated.
- [00:22]
Dan
Whether it's that vintage pearl necklace or.
- [00:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Brand new ruby earrings, a Prada crossbody bag, or classic watches like that Rolex Oyster or that Cartier tank on ebay, there are no lim to your high standards. Yeah, ebay. The place for new, pre loved, vintage and rare fashion. Ebay. Things people love. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You might say all kinds of stuff when things go wrong, but these are the words you really need to remember. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. They've got options to fit your unique insurance needs. Meaning you can talk to your agent to choose the coverage you need. Have coverage options to protect the things you value most. File a claim right on the State Farm mobile app, and even reach a real person when you need to talk to someone. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Okay, I'm ready.
- [01:31]
Dan
She doesn't seem ready. I'm happy to see her here. She says she's ready. She's yawning. She's just wanting to get flexible to start our south beach session. I'm excited about this one because she's fun, she's vibrant, she's viral. And your journey is unlike any I've seen. I was very thankful that your husband came in here and was very meticulous about telling me how to pronounce your name correctly because he didn't want me to get it wrong. He said Atsuko.
- [01:57]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm.
- [01:58]
Dan
Okatsuka.
- [01:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Perfect. Crushed it.
- [02:01]
Dan
Okay.
- [02:02]
Atsuko Okatsuka
You crushed it. He crushed it. And I just get to benefit from the fruits of both of you really, really working at that together.
- [02:09]
Dan
Yeah, really. I'm proud of myself for being able to get that part right. Your journey and you are done. Dan.
- [02:16]
Atsuko Okatsuka
No, I'm just kidding. I've been practicing all day. It's done.
- [02:19]
Dan
But if I made you do your. The last name, we'd need your husband's help. I feel like. Again, I feel like.
- [02:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
- [02:25]
Dan
That's okay, though. We're gonna get to know each other now. That's what we're working on.
- [02:28]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Hel. Hello. Hi.
- [02:30]
Dan
It's nice to meet you. And I don't understand how you got here. You are the funniest victim of kidnapping that there has to have been in the history of comedy. And I will Tell everybody that she tells her story on her Hulu special. That's called Father.
- [02:46]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm. Right.
- [02:48]
Dan
So how did you get here, though? How did this all happen? It's really unlikely.
- [02:52]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, how did I get here? It's such a. When people ask like a question like that, like, who are you? How did you get here? I'm like, you're gonna get me. Ex existential, sweetie. I'm like, who am I? How did I get here? You mean like to this studio?
- [03:07]
Dan
No, the map that brought you from Japan to this country, undocumented for several years, to a space in competitive comedy where you have a lane that is uniquely yours.
- [03:22]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, right. A lot of it. The comedy part took a while to figure out, though, you know, to figure out that lane. But just physically getting somewhere, you know, as a kid, you just. Where your family says we're going. So that's. Hence, I think, you know, I'm an easy victim of kidnapping and that it's not so wild. I don't want to scare people by saying that, but yeah, you know, I was born in Taiwan. I grew up in Japan. I was there until I was 8. And then my grandma told me we were coming to LA for a two month vacation, so she brought me and my mom. And then 20 something years later, I'm in West Hollywood with you.
- [04:06]
Dan
Grandma didn't ask for permission. Grandma, like, you were too young to know what was happening there.
- [04:12]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Yeah, she didn't ask. And we've talked about it since, thanks to Ira Glass. And I always joke that you never want to have the help of Ira Glass figure out something like that. That means things went bad. Right. You never want to be on this American life because that means someone messed up. Okay. And like, if you know a whole journalist helping you try.
- [04:34]
Dan
Thanks to Ira Glass is not an expression that I was thinking we were gonna have as part of this story. But yes, he told the story of you and your grandmother.
- [04:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, Right. And he helped me figure out that it was technically a kidnapping. Right. What she did, he actually, like, looked up California law, and with like statute of limitations or whatever, he was like, you could technically still press charges. And I was like, okay, I'll hold that to her, you know? But yes, she didn't tell me anything because, you know, just flat out. And it's true, she said, if I would have told you we were gonna move for good, you would have resisted or said no. And I was like, I would have at 10. At 8. Yeah.
- [05:19]
Dan
Okay, so you would have resisted. And because the transition was very hard Was it not? There was a lot of. I mean, I would imagine it was. Would be hard.
- [05:27]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. Especially since I didn't know. Right. I thought it was temporary. So as I'm slowly realizing two months is over, I'm still here. It's been three months, four months, five months. I'm enrolled in school here now. You know what I mean? All our stuff just got shipped from Japan. Like, you know, as you're putting it together, as you're realizing you were getting bamboozled as a kid, at the same time, you're having to, like, quickly catch up and, okay, I better learn the language then, and the culture and try to make friends. Right. It's like, survive, survival skills. At the same time, the person that brought me here, my confidant, my guardian, my grandma is a liar, you know what I mean? All these things. But at the same time, she's my best friend. It's a lot of complex things. So, yeah, like, assimilating was. Was hard because it wasn't just like, learn the language like you do on Duolingo.
- [06:23]
Dan
I mean, that would have been hard enough, though learning the language alone would have been a really hard culture shock. Just that.
- [06:31]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'm going through that right now in that things have settled. Right. Like I'm, you know, in that I'm on Duolingo now, is what I'm saying. And that is hard. Okay. But maybe because I'm used to, like, chaos, like I just, I just described, I'm like, just learning one language on Duolingo. No, no, no, sweetie. I'm learning three at the same time because I think I need that kind of stimuli. I wonder if that kind of, like, upbringing, you know, trained my brain to be able to always want to do a bunch at the same time.
- [07:04]
Dan
That's interesting. I would also think that comedy would make you very precise about language, and when you combine it with your perfectionism, then all of a sudden you're in a place where you want to get very sharp at learning quickly things that are tools for your. For your job.
- [07:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
That's true. Yeah. I think it's all goes hand in hand. It all comes from the same brain, all this. Yeah.
- [07:26]
Dan
Well, I've seen you when you get interviewed about your inner child as from afar, the pop psychology I'm doing is I'm imagining, well, a good portion of her childhood was probably stolen. Like, that was so confusing that I would imagine that she had to grow up fast amid that confusion.
- [07:47]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, right. Emotionally, I had to grow up fast. Yeah. So Sometimes, you know, growing up fast, I think, means not healthy things like suppressing your feelings. Oh, she's so. She's such an old soul. No, no. Bitch. It's because I'm suppressing things. Oh, she doesn't complain. She's so quiet. Oh, she's so well behaved. I'm traumatized. But because of that, right? I look more adult as a kid. Right. I'm not running around and, you know, watch me, watch me, watch me. Or, you know, because sometimes I'm just observing, going, okay, is something wrong gonna happen again? You know, so in a way, yeah, I did grow up faster, but I don't know if those were healthy.
- [08:33]
Dan
Well, what if the woman who sits before us today, the seminal. Where is she?
- [08:39]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Where is she?
- [08:40]
Dan
Oh, shaped by what? Most, like is the relationship with Grandma. Like, if you had to choose the one thing most responsible for shaping the adult before us, her comedy, everything else. What are you looking at there?
- [08:56]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. Oh, it's a lot of mistakes. A lot of trial and error, honestly. I think my upbringing, for sure, is one. And then. But also being in, like, the wrong relationship sometimes and then just, you know, delving into things like comedy. Right. Like, I started comedy when I was 20. Yeah. I think 20, 21. And, you know, so, like, there's a lot of failing at it at first because I was like, I don't know how to do it the right way. I wasn't always the best at making friends, too. So, you know, it's. I had to. I had to fail a lot. I was in a bad relationship for seven years, too. It was kind of toxic, and, you know, I was kind of stuck in it. And so all those things shaped me, I think being in situations I didn't want to be in for a long time. And I go, okay, so let's not do that.
- [09:57]
Dan
Yeah, that's the way. But that's what learned. That's a lot of learning in relationships is, I don't want that. I don't want that. I don't want that. And then you figure out what you do want.
- [10:05]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, Right. Knowing what you're not into, knowing who you're not sometimes takes years, right? And you go, oh, my gosh. Yeah, maybe I'm not, you know, a filmmaker. I thought maybe I was gonna be a filmmaker. Right. I was like, oh, I was just doing what my ex wanted to do or was, you know, so it's a lot of. That's all those things shaped me. Right? Including my childhood, you know, and seeing what went wrong and going, okay, I don't do that. I think partly that's why I'm not gonna have kids.
- [10:37]
Dan
I'll get into that with you in a second. The comedy is also in here, though. The ability to be funny are the seeds of it. In the darkness in some of these places where you have the discomforts.
- [10:52]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think that, you know, I didn't know about, like, making people laugh. Not necessarily naturally. My family are not funny people. My family are not even laughers. My family don't even really talk. We sit and eat in silence. Like, our dinners are just like. You just hear the clanking of the plates and the fork and the spoon. Like, you just. You just think, oh, did someone die every time we eat together as a family?
- [11:31]
Dan
What is that? What's happening there? Because you're. That's not you at other dinners, is it?
- [11:38]
Atsuko Okatsuka
No, no, no. No other dinners. I'm like, oh, I had to learn to have a personality almost, because if I just learned personality from my family, I would just be, like, a quiet person, still suppressed and not funny or, you know, want, like. Yeah, it's wild. I think, obviously, I think this. This is my true self. I love funny things. I love making people laugh. I'm an observer first, maybe, is what I'm realizing as a kid, like, I said, I observed a lot, Right. So then I would call out the elephant in the room, you know, if we're eating in silence. I remember one time, you know, at dinner once, I did learn, like, humor a little bit from watching tv, Chelsea lately, Scooby Doo, or, like, a couple funny classmates. I was like, okay, that's how jokes work. Okay. One time, we were eating in silence again with my family, and I remember just going, like, midway through it, this is really fun. We should do this again. And then I saw my uncle kind of, like, chuckle, because he's like, it is pretty ridiculous. We just eat in silence. Like we're at a funeral, you know? Yeah. And so little bits like that would come out, and then I would go, okay. I had to learn to be funny, though.
- [12:55]
Dan
Okay, so you're. But you're also doing it to bring a spark to what is otherwise boredom, Right. Because you don't want to be sitting there in silence. Correct?
- [13:05]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. I think that's what it is. Yeah. Boredom, Right? It is boredom. I had to entertain my poor brain.
- [13:12]
Dan
But your family also didn't want to talk about the stuff going on with your family. Right. Like, none of that was being expressed.
- [13:20]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right. To the point we barely even small talked. You Know, I was like, gosh, y' all need. They need to be on the show. My relatives need to be talking out. They need to be.
- [13:32]
Dan
They need.
- [13:32]
Atsuko Okatsuka
There's two more mics here. Yeah.
- [13:34]
Dan
Yes.
- [13:35]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [13:35]
Dan
And so that I would grill them. Why do you eat in silence? And why. Why did. Why did grandma have to rush to take her away to another country and lie to her about it?
- [13:46]
Atsuko Okatsuka
That's right, yeah. Why are you so afraid to laugh? Do you not know comedy? They kind of don't.
- [13:51]
Dan
Are they proud of you now? Do they understand what is happening now?
- [13:55]
Atsuko Okatsuka
They do. They do, yes. Yeah. You know, I had to. My grandma and my mom have seen. Have come to a couple comedy shows. So they've seen what American stand up comedy is, or else it's not really a thing in Taiwanese culture. They didn't grow up watching it.
- [14:12]
Dan
I would assume the way you make a living is at least somewhat confusing to people who are eating in silence.
- [14:18]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah. I think, you know, they do live in la. My uncle, my aunt, my mom and grandma. So for the most part, you know, I think by now, right, with like social media, Instagram, you know, TikTok, people watching stand up clips on there.
- [14:35]
Dan
Your grandma's famous, right? Like, they love your grandma, your fans.
- [14:39]
Atsuko Okatsuka
They do love her. My fans do love her, yes. And because, you know, I do feature her a lot on my social media. She had a Twitter account for a second. Yeah, 17,000 followers. What? She literally just started an account and said something like, hello, I love you. And then, boom, 17,000 followers. I said, do you know how many comedians try for years tweeting funny things? Oh, man, maybe this will stick. Trying to get, I don't know, even up to 10,000 followers. Meanwhile, this 89 year old is just like, hello, hi, do you see me? And they were like, yes, bitch, we do. We want to every day, you know. So, yes, she is known. So she's. She's pretty quick to figure out things, you know, me and Ryan, my husband, explained to her, like, how Twitter works. Okay, so these are actual real people that are following you because they're interested, some of them. Yes, exactly. Yeah.
- [15:37]
Dan
Explain that part to her.
- [15:39]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, I haven't been able to explain that part to her, but she's off Twitter now kind of because of it, you know. How do you explain that? Yeah, that there's bots and.
- [15:48]
Dan
Well, how do you explain your relationship with her, though? Because it's changed over the years in a variety of different ways. And the adult you now has come to grips with what? With closure on what your relationship is with your 89 year old grandmother.
- [16:04]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Yeah. How has it changed over the years? I think, you know, I had to, I. Maybe the toxic relationship helped where I was like, okay, I'm with this boyfriend. He does not make me feel good, you know, it's it, you know. Right. I wasn't really able to have like my own friend groups during that time, chase my own dreams, you know, it was all about him and serving him. And I didn't really see my family during that time. But I was also like, trying to take time away from my family because I was like, there are a lot of things, right. Living in a garage with my mom and grandma, you know, for seven years when we were undocumented, that's a lot. Not enough boundaries. My mom has schizophrenia, so she was also confusing and aggressive and toxic too, sometimes. And then when we would eat with my uncle and aunt, we all ate in silence. And then. So. Right. So then, you know, for me, I thought that break was nice with that boyfriend. But then during that time, I was like, ooh, now this is toxic. Maybe I do miss my family, you know, And I think I was able to maybe through, you know, what, what is it? Absence. Through absence, I was able to put more perspective into what my family's going through. And so then after that, after I broke up with that boyfriend, I started seeing my mom and grandma more again. And then it was until honestly, maybe these past 10, 11 years that we really rebuilt relationship, me, my mom and grandma. That was healthier.
- [17:47]
Dan
In mentioning the toxic relationship as a shaper now a couple of times. What have you learned about yourself in the examination of how it is that you got stuck in something that wasn't good for you?
- [17:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, well, you know, it really is trying to create a better sequel to your childhood. Right. Or finding your own family, I think. I mean, everyone goes through that. They call it chosen family. Right. You can't help your blood family, but you can choose who you do hang out during Thanksgiving.
- [18:22]
Dan
You also can't choose, right. What passes for love in your household before you learn outside the doors of your household what love should be. Right. Like if you're, I would imagine, in your childhood, whatever it is that's there passes for your normal. And so that's what love becomes for you. And I don't know in what ways we then choose in our future partners, some things that are about our patterns in the past that might not be healthy for us until we learn the things that have to be Learned about what we don't want so that we choose the things we do want.
- [18:53]
Atsuko Okatsuka
No, that's very true. Yeah, for sure. I think that repeating what you knew from home is such a typical first step to trying to get out of the family, even. Yeah. And some people stay in it, you know, for the rest of their life too.
- [19:11]
Dan
It's very easy without ever seeing it, really. It'd be very easy to do. To just choose the same things. I think most people end up living pretty close to the place that they grew up, whether actually or metaphorically or emotionally. I think. I think that you can not outgrow your surroundings, but you've done so in a way that you recognize the braveness in the choices you've made. Correct?
- [19:34]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, the braveness. Oh, that's so sweet. But I guess it's some braveness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Courage. Yeah.
- [19:45]
Dan
You went from a sheltered experience into choosing a sheltered, silent at the dinner table experience to choosing something much bigger than that for yourself by chasing the arts.
- [19:58]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Sure. Right, right. That's true. That's true.
- [20:00]
Dan
But you don't think of it as brave. It just. It called you. You didn't go call it.
- [20:07]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, yeah, I did call it. It called me. Yeah. I really need it, and I love it, and it's my way of communicating to people. It's my way of finding community. It's. Yeah. So it felt necessary so, you know, to say it was brave. Right. I didn't really ever think of it that way because it's like, oh, people say, oh, it's so brave to do comedy or to do standup. I could never. Oh, my gosh, the guts. You have to. Have to do that.
- [20:44]
Dan
I'm not even talking about the act of performing, though. That too. I'm saying choosing a career choice that has both the expectation of funny in it and you're just. It's you and your talent. That's what you got. There's not a. Not a team of people helping you get there. And there's not a health insurance company that is, you know, interning comedians.
- [21:05]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I would say it was brave to be stuck in a garage with a mom with schizophrenia and a grandma who kidnapped you too.
- [21:15]
Dan
Okay, all right, fair enough. Look, I want to talk to you about how my.
- [21:20]
Atsuko Okatsuka
No, but, yes, I will take. I will take the compliment.
- [21:24]
Dan
You will accept it.
- [21:25]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [21:25]
Dan
Thank you.
- [21:26]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. No, thank you.
- [21:27]
Dan
I'm bad at accepting compliments, so thank you for stopping me right there and accepting the compliment. I did not have that sheltered a childhood, but my parents were political exiles and so it was very small. My world wasn't very big, but it wasn't a garage. 7 years undocumented with a grandmother. And I don't know what the details are on mom being schizophrenic or that that would make that a particular kind of nightmare, because it seems like that would be really claustrophobic.
- [21:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I always. I have joked that a garage because, you know, during that time. So I went to like, puberty in a garage and an eating disorder in the garage. In middle school, I went through figuring out high school. My first, like, crushes, masturbation, all of that. Meanwhile, my mom has schizophren, severe depression. A garage is not enough space to hold even just an eating disorder. Okay. I said there's.
- [22:32]
Dan
There's not enough space for any of those things. You just.
- [22:34]
Atsuko Okatsuka
A garage is enough space for a car. A car. Maybe a dog.
- [22:39]
Dan
Well, but a garage.
- [22:40]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Some people keep a dog in there.
- [22:42]
Dan
A garage with grandma and mom is not. Is not a place for masturbation or any of those other things.
- [22:50]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, my God. You have. Yes. Doing homework on top of where my mom's eating dinner. You know what I mean? Masturbating really quickly. We shared a bed. And then we would take turns sleeping on the ground too. So two people on the bed and then seven years.
- [23:06]
Dan
For seven years, sweetie.
- [23:08]
Atsuko Okatsuka
The economy. In this economy.
- [23:11]
Dan
I mean. But that seems.
- [23:12]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Of course.
- [23:13]
Dan
Okay, but that seems hard. But it also made.
- [23:15]
Atsuko Okatsuka
We didn't have a job. What rent. That was, you know. Right. And so. But yes. Sorry, keep going.
- [23:21]
Dan
No, it made you strong, I imagine.
- [23:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, I don't know if I was strong. In a way it made me weaker because I was like, you know, I mean, it was just confusing. It's just a lot. Yeah. I remember when I got my period in that garage and my mom was going through menopause, I was like, we should not be having full circles, a full ass circle of life here in a garage. Meanwhile, my grandma's like, I've done both of those things 20 years ago. She's just watching us. My poor grandma. Like, are you hungry? I'll microwave something. You know what I mean?
- [23:58]
Dan
You used the word trauma, though. Like it was that. Right? That all of it was traumatizing. It wasn't just confusing. It was also traumatizing, was it not?
- [24:07]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. That's why I think I was like boyfriend, you know? Yeah.
- [24:14]
Dan
Yeah. So you can get out. Right? I don't know. The details in what it is to be raised by a mother who is schizophrenic. Like, what ends up happening there where grandma feels, I've got to get everyone out of here to a new life, to a transition that had to be scary for everyone involved. Like, I don't know how you get out of the situation of seven years in a garage undocumented without feeling almost entirely hopeless.
- [24:43]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, right. I mean, you know, my grandma is many things, but she's also a hustler, right? Asian grandmas, immigrant grandmas, all grandmas are in a network of other. With other grandmas, okay? These grandmas talk. And now that they have cell phones, I don't know if you know, but they are online on WhatsApp. Okay. And they're in these text threads together.
- [25:09]
Dan
And they're a crime family of strength. They can get together.
- [25:13]
Atsuko Okatsuka
These grandmas are straight up in mafias. These are gangs, okay? My grandma is part of. In a thread with text thread with other Asian grandmas. And they mostly give each other tips about, like, discounts, like where to get the cheapest meat, loopholes to get more money out of the government. You know, where to move your money to a bank.
- [25:37]
Dan
Just hustle. Just general. There's a general hustle that will not die.
- [25:41]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It's a crime family. Yeah. And so, you know, so she figured out things like, you know. Yeah. I'm like, am I allowed to even talk about this now?
- [25:50]
Dan
I'm gonna.
- [25:51]
Atsuko Okatsuka
In this.
- [25:51]
Dan
In this administration of limitation. Well, that's a good point, actually.
- [25:56]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I am a citizen now, but I don't know.
- [25:58]
Dan
That's a good point. You think. You think the statute of limitations isn't up on some of those garage hustles?
- [26:04]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I don't know. I don't know how this administration works. I keep thinking maybe I've figured it out. And then they're like, nope, actually, we can undo that, too.
- [26:12]
Dan
Fair. Better to keep it safe then.
- [26:15]
Atsuko Okatsuka
But I will say that, you know, my grandma was able to figure out, through talking to her community of other grandmas that she met, you know, once we got to LA through, like, church, you know, my uncle and aunt were going to church. That's a quick way for immigrants to, like, find community. They were like, do you want friends? You know, that's how they get you, right? You want friends, right? Free food. And we're like, of course.
- [26:37]
Dan
So we ended up finger foods and friends is how the church gets you. It's how cults get you.
- [26:42]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, suddenly we were Christian. We were like, yes, I'm Christian. And, you know, there's like free trips to, you know, I don't know, we would go play basketball at the park or whatever. Right. Little outings. Go to 3rd Street Promenade. You know, Community.
- [26:58]
Dan
You got it right. Community. Well, especially how you grow up. I would imagine there would be some starvation for community. Like, I. I was describing a small exile life to you. Yours is considerably smaller than that because there's also.
- [27:11]
Atsuko Okatsuka
We don't have to have an oppression off. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
- [27:17]
Dan
Okay, well, but I feel like you'd win an oppression off. I feel like you would.
- [27:21]
Atsuko Okatsuka
It's okay.
- [27:21]
Dan
You're right. We don't have to do that.
- [27:22]
Atsuko Okatsuka
There was no outside war in our family.
- [27:25]
Dan
Okay.
- [27:25]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I moved from Tokyo.
- [27:27]
Dan
Okay, fair enough.
- [27:28]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I moved from the future. Okay. That was the other confusing thing. People would be like, oh, my God, you're undocumented from, like, a war torn country. Right. And I'd be like, no, Tokyo.
- [27:43]
Dan
It sounds like, though, there was a lot of just fear in your life. Like at some point you escaped all of that. Right? That kind of fear.
- [27:52]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Yeah. My mom, you know, I'm still figuring out, Right. She makes me feel all kinds of things, but I have so much empathy for her. And I have more resources and I have more. Mm. Yeah. Whether it's financial or mental and emotionally. And also like Ryan, my husband, you know, and friends and community. That I can deal with my mom a little easier than when I was a kid.
- [28:22]
Dan
That must be nice, though, to have a loving relationship there. That is a testament to your adulthood.
- [28:29]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm, yeah, totally. Yeah.
- [28:31]
Dan
Because that can be hard. Right? You can just. Somebody like that, you can have all sorts of blind spots and resentments about somebody who raised you without arriving at a place where you're like, the boundary is you get out of here. Like, get out of here. You've caused too much damage.
- [28:47]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right. And that's probably healthy too, for people. Some people. Right, yeah. Because, you know, you need to do what's best for you. So there are people who are like, yeah, I don't talk to him. My mom with schizophrenia. I don't talk to, you know, so and so with mental illnesses. Yeah.
- [29:04]
Dan
But you still don't talk. The family still can't talk about any of these things. Like, it's still that if you go back to dinner, it's gonna keep being quiet at dinner.
- [29:12]
Atsuko Okatsuka
For the most part. Yeah. They still do things behind each other's back. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [29:19]
Dan
So do you feel alone inside of that.
- [29:23]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I think that, you know, sometimes more recently, actually, you know, I had a realization where my family was trying to decide something again without really telling me or my grandma, but it pertained to my grandma. And, you know, I was telling Ryan, I was like, oh, gosh, like, I feel like we have to just go with this plan. Like, I just. I found out. We all found me and my grandma found out later and I was telling Ryan like, oh, I guess we just have to go with this plan, you know? And then I found. I guess I took time to think about it and then I realized, wait, what? No, I don't. I don't have to go with this. I'm an adult. And not just an adult, I'm. I am a known comedian. I have resources, I have community. I can stop this from happening. Right, because my grandma didn't want this to happen either. It pertained to my grandma moving to Taiwan. They were like, let's just move her there, Buy one way ticket to her for her to go to Taiwan. And I was like, gosh, just like that, my grandma, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna lose my grandma, you know, and then they're like, and then your mom, you know, is now yours to full time take care of. And I was like, wait, there's gotta be a middle ground, right? And so anyway, we're still figuring this out. Probably too soon to be talking about it, because we're figuring it out. But what I was gonna say is that I swear this had something to do with what you asked.
- [30:55]
Dan
Well, no, I think you learned your own power in there somewhere. How to be. I was talking to you about the freedom of adulthood and being able, in a family of people who don't talk, to have your own agency. And that's what you were articulating, that you're in the middle of. And made clear, by the way, even as you talked about it, that something was being decided for your grandmother that you weren't okay with. And I can't even imagine how close you are to that woman, like, given. Well, you just explained the details of how physically close you were to her for seven years, but just all of it that would be responsible for you being able to reach a life that isn't just always forever eating silently at the dinner table in a very small world.
- [31:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, no, I think we could in like, what is it called, a lineup, Like a prison lineup without our faces. I could point just based on body. I could tell you which one grandma is. She could do the same with me. I did have a left nipple piercing and a belly button, one that didn't heal, so I'm easier to spot. But I could spot my grandma just like that. Is that tmi?
- [32:12]
Dan
No, that's okay. That's what this whole thing should be. It should all be too much information. We're already probing around in like all of the dark spaces.
- [32:21]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. So what's my grandma's body? That's just a light walk in the park.
- [32:27]
Dan
It's just collateral damage on what we're doing here. We're gonna go grab every. We're gonna go grab every shame, vulnerability that we can find.
- [32:33]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right? Right. Mm.
- [32:36]
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- [35:14]
Dan
What was your break, though, like, as you decide where? Do you have any kind of a epiphany or illumination when you say comedy's for me, comedy's what I'm gonna choose. I'm gonna make a go of this.
- [35:26]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah. Well, you know, being in a healthy relationship with Ryan really helped that because I was suddenly like, I think, you know, like, just like my grandma. For the most part, as she tried, she tried her hardest when I was a kid to try to let me have as much of a normal childhood as possible. I know that sounds wild considering how my childhood was, but, you know, whenever she was struggling, like I didn't know our financial struggles, for the most part, she wouldn't tell us. Right. You know, if I wanted a Barbie doll, even if it was like, you know, a discounted one, she would make sure I got one, you know? Or.
- [36:11]
Dan
You didn't know that the family was struggling.
- [36:14]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right? Right.
- [36:14]
Dan
You were too young to know. Even in a garage.
- [36:17]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Yeah. I didn't know she was having to get medicine from Taiwan, like smuggled over so that my mom had medicine because we didn't have health care. You know, I didn't know these things because she just wanted me to, like, play with friends, if possible. I would always play with our neighbors. I would sleep over there a lot sometimes even. Even though we were just two minute walk away. But it was her partly trying to protect me from seeing how dark my mom would get sometimes at night. And so just like that, she allowed me some space to be able to play, maybe daydream, you know, Ryan Allowed that for me. You know, when we first started seeing each other, I wasn't like, I've been doing comedy for like what, 16 years now, I guess. Oh my gosh, 15. But you know, and I was doing comedy when we met too, but not as much because I didn't tell myself, oh, this is my full time job. This is. And it wasn't my full time job, you know, I was walking dogs, I was teaching dance fitness, I was teaching community college cinema at the time and doing stand up. But not as much because it was so scary to be like, yes, this is my full time thing. Who has that self confidence? A lot of people. But I didn't, you know, so, you know, it took him being like at one point, the community college I was teaching at, which I was not a great teacher, I was bad on my job. I've been fired from most of my jobs in my life. That one, that one is one of.
- [37:53]
Dan
Them and all deserved. Oh, it sounds like you're. It sounds like you weren't wrongly weren't wronged as an employee.
- [38:01]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah? How do you know?
- [38:03]
Dan
From the way that you're smiling. From the way that you're smiling.
- [38:06]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Maybe I was wrong.
- [38:07]
Dan
Sounds like you were justifiably fired at every stop.
- [38:10]
Atsuko Okatsuka
No, I was a terrible employee. I was. And but before that firing, I was given the chance to be a full time teacher at this community college, which meant like my salary. I would have a salary or I don't even know the difference. I was like getting paid monthly, right? And then now it would be like this. A full time salary, right? And I talked to Ryan and I was like, well, this would mean I really can't do stand up as much because I would be there all the time. So much homework, so much homework, so much planning, right? I have to have to really care about these kids futures. And you know, and then it made me like really sad to be like, oh, I wouldn't be able to do stand up as much or at all, you know, and Ryan said, you know, because Ryan was at the time working at restaurants and he was like, I'll, I'll keep working these jobs. And you, you, you should do comedy, you should pursue comedy, you should do it more full time. And then when we invest like that, it's bound to happen because, you know, he really believed in my talent, you know, and so, so that really helped.
- [39:27]
Dan
What a beautiful love story.
- [39:29]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh my gosh. I know I'm sometimes like, oh, what does he get out of this besides my looks?
- [39:37]
Dan
Well, he seems Very happy taking care of you. It's nice to see him enthusiastically making sure that everything is good with you. So I juxtaposed against seven years of toxicity. I wonder how it is that you guys met and how it is that you sort of very quickly realized, oh, this is what it's supposed to feel like.
- [40:03]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. Well, so we met through a mutual friend who also ended up, like, officiating our wedding, but he forgot to turn in, I think, the paperwork. Marriage paperwork. Me and Ryan didn't know we weren't actually married till, like, recently.
- [40:20]
Dan
Okay.
- [40:20]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. I tried to put him on my health insurance, and, yeah, we were like, oh, we never turn in people.
- [40:25]
Dan
Actually married.
- [40:26]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, Right. Yeah. Which is very us. That's so me and Ryan, because Ryan is more with it and put together than me. But we're both still, like, artist brain at the end of the day.
- [40:37]
Dan
Bad at the details.
- [40:38]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah. I mean, we. Yeah, we're artists. Why would we know what paperwork. Where we put our paperwork? Are we professional organizers? No, we don't work at the dmv.
- [40:55]
Dan
That's correct.
- [40:56]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And so I don't even know. I was like, who deals with paper? Oh, dmv. We're not Kinkos, but yes. So that's how we met, how we realized that we, you know, this was. Right. I think, you know, we both kind of came out of a relationship that was, like, seven years long. We were, like, twins or something around the same time. And so, yeah, I don't know. It was one of those things where, like, when you. It's so silly to say when, you know, you know, but I think just very, very easy and truly coming from a place of, like, love and empathy, and we have a lot of fun together, that was very important.
- [41:38]
Dan
Well, that's a good combination that makes life on the road. Right. Without kids. That must make it a real joy for to be able to have not just be at the mountaintop of what it is that you're doing, but have someone there who can share the view with you so that you're not alone while you're having success, but also, you know, feels very much a part of being responsible for the caretaking of all of it, which is also your happiness.
- [42:01]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, yeah, totally. I think a lot of times, you know, especially, like, in a workaholic world, right. Because of the economy, because hustle, the rent is high. You know, it's easy to just be so into work, but work is very lonely in general. Work can be very lonely. Even if you work with your partner, you know, Romantic partner or something or family. Right. And oftentimes, you know, a lot of successes in your workplace, it's like, is it worth it if you're celebrating a milestone and then. But you're alone in it or. You know what I mean? Or your partner can't be there in the same city as you're like performing at your biggest venue yet in Chicago. You know what I mean? My biggest theater in London to 3,500 people. But Ryan isn't there, you know, and I sure I can come home and tell him about it. I love to talk, but you know, it's right. I feel.
- [43:01]
Dan
No, it's a shared experience without words. It's a shared experience. Like I would imagine that on this last tour that there were any number of times, you tell me if I'm wrong, where you're locking in with him on something that you have not yet become numb to around success. Whether it's 300 tickets in Singapore, that becomes 3500 tickets very quickly. I imagine you have a lot of shared that where business resides.
- [43:28]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think it's important to have that with friends or whoever you can share that with. You know, some comedians bring an entourage with them to tour or a couple friends. I think it's for that reason.
- [43:42]
Dan
Well, but comedians are also competitive too. I don't know. Do you have a lot of comedian friends who are happy for your success?
- [43:51]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, I think so, yes. I mean, we tell each other that. Yeah, I have a comedian friend and we tell each other we're proud of each other. I think that, yes, they mean it. My nose starts to bleed. Of course they mean it. Why, what have you heard? What did John say? John, who was your guest earlier, but he's not a stand up.
- [44:15]
Dan
No, he is not a stand up. Do you have a story from this last trip that would articulate what it is that we're talking about where you feel at the height of your game and that you have the things in place that would make it feel like joy.
- [44:32]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah. I mean, so I kind of named two of them. Chicago theater, right. That was like a third movie, 3500 seater. And in London at the Apollo event, Tim Apollo. Because I had just done London four months before too, at another theater, Hackney Empire. So it was like my encore show back at an even bigger theater just a few months after. And so I'm like, I'm already doing an encore show just a few months after. And then I did my whole Europe tour. It was my first time, you know, doing shows In Europe for my European fans who I had to, because of scheduling and stuff, keep, you know, I had to push it back and I hadn't been able to go to them yet. So, you know, I'd done my Asia tours and they were incredible and sold out. And it's so cool to see locals coming out to watch my comedy. I'm not changing my words, I'm not changing my show. And they feel seen. And I feel seen because I'm like, oh, my gosh, you're here. You really sold out this theater. Thousands of people, people from different cultures. And yeah, this is the whole point, right. Of doing art for me, right. Is to, gosh, internationally, we understand each other, you know, and not only that, you find the same things funny or, you know, so generally that's been really cool to experience together. Me and Ryan, where we're like, who would have thought? Like Japan, you know, American comedians don't really. Can't really perform in Japan because Japan, they're still learning English and stand up comedy is new there. They're also very shy. Like, people tour Singapore, American comedians tour Singapore because Singaporeans speak English, you know, Filipinos, even a lot of Southeast Asia. But like Japan, Taiwan, where, you know, I'm from too. So those were cool, like, full circle moments. It's like, I'm from here, I'm from Taiwan, I'm from Japan. And, you know, Japan was somewhere I was like, taken from and couldn't go back to because, you know, when you're undocumented in the States and you want to go, you want to come back, you can't leave, right? And come back. So I couldn't see Japan for a long time when I didn't have the papers. And suddenly, you know, I'm like selling out shows in Tokyo to strangers and they're telling me, welcome home, you know, so that was. Those were really, really cool, cool moments. Sorry, that was a long story.
- [47:16]
Dan
No, but it's great. It's what I was asking you, is your perfectionism more of a blessing or a curse?
- [47:23]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, it's both. Yeah. Just like my haircut, it's every three weeks, it's a trim.
- [47:30]
Dan
In what ways is it both? Like, when I say perfectionism, how does it serve you and how does it not?
- [47:37]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Well, you know, my shows, I want to make it good. And so, you know, even now, tonight, I'm doing my first hour of new show. I just came back from Europe like a month ago doing another show.
- [47:54]
Dan
That's crazy. Everyone says it takes a year to make that Material live up to the expectations of the previous one. You're doing it. Most comedians I've talked to say as soon as they end the tour, it's a bit scary because it's a blank canvas. And now you get to start all over again.
- [48:09]
Atsuko Okatsuka
For sure. Yeah. And I've been working on it for a couple of months when I've been able to. But it's hard when you're in a new country every day. Like, I was in Europe during that time. I couldn't work on this new hour of show. So, you know, but I was out there hustling, bustling, just like, you know, and sometimes it means that, you know, when Ryan's just trying to relax at home, I'm in his face with a mic, being like, does this work? Does this work? Okay, so the other day I was here. You know, it's insane. I'm out in my front porch talking to the trees. That's how I practice.
- [48:44]
Dan
Well, you gotta feed the machine. Right. It's a hamster wheel of. You've arrived at what represents largely your professional dreams. You got there, at least in part, by grinding the entire time to get to this freedom. Now you don't want to lose it, now you got to keep it. Everybody wants the things that you want. So now you're a perfectionist. And I would imagine there's some workaholism in there as well. No. Or that you're always thinking about it, for sure.
- [49:10]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not like riding a bike where you go, the hard work was in the beginning. I learned it. I can take a break for, I don't know, 40 years, and when I pick up a bike, it'll be back. It's not like that. Not at all. Yeah. The pressure gets bigger every time. Okay, you got your second special. First one was good. Second special. And I honestly feel like the second special is even better and funnier. And you can see that there is even growth. And I'm like, how. But that's how we are as humans. You know, it's easiest to see growth in babies. Right. Because, you know, they're literally small. And then you're like, whoa, I didn't see you for a year. Now you're walking or whatever. I think it's like that with adults, too. You know, actually, you can see it.
- [50:05]
Dan
In your work, though. Like, that's.
- [50:06]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I can see it in my work.
- [50:07]
Dan
You've arrived at a pretty confident place if you believe that you have met your standard of expectation from the previous special.
- [50:17]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah.
- [50:18]
Dan
And that you have the confidence of, like. No, I'm. If I met my standard, then you guys are gonna like this. I'm excited about you guys seeing this.
- [50:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh. I care about other people's experiences a lot. I care about the audience experience a lot. Down to. I mean, what I'm wearing, down to the lighting, down to the dance that I am going to entertain you with before I do my standup. Down to my opener. Right. I watch. You know, before I was bringing Dylan Adler, my opener, across the US And I brought him in Europe, too. It's hard to find someone with the right energy, the right material, the right, you know, all of that for the show. It's a full show. It's a whole show. I think about that and the length of the show. How much time is he gonna do? How much time am I gonna do? Has it changed? You know, how much is too long?
- [51:11]
Dan
I think that people like you. I don't know if your audience knows this. I don't know if perhaps the laughter is something best not deconstructed. But I don't think most people watching, you know quite how hard it is to make it look that easy.
- [51:25]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm, yeah. I wonder maybe. Yeah.
- [51:31]
Dan
I mean, the point is, it's not easy. Correct. Right, right. You would not argue that the honing of your act, the finished product, is not in any way easy. All of it's work. Correct. And much of it is lonely work. And getting in Ryan's face when he's tired and doesn't want to hear the ninth joke that doesn't quite make the cut.
- [51:49]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right. Yes. Yes. It is a ton of work. Stand up comedy. I feel like I'm so proud of just the art form in general because we have really arrived internationally. People know stand up comedy. People get stoked about stand up comedy. People are going to see it, you know, more than ever, I think. And we were always like the stepchild in art forms, I think, because like you said, it's so much work. It is so much work. I'm out there every night doing multiple spots a night, and after I do one show, then I'm on my drive to the next one, fixing which joke. I feel like, okay, that didn't need those two extra words. Okay, good. All right, so that one didn't do as good. I think I'm gonna cut it now. All right, what can I replace it with? Write really fast while I'm driving to the next one. And then I try that at that show. Right. And then I go home, and then that's when I'm talking more sometimes till like 2am Right. That's when I. Mostly people work differently, but I really, really work well at night because I'm a vampire. And like, you know, I feel like a lot of comedians are. And so the work is a lot. But the point of stand up comedy is to. To when you're performing, it is to hide the work is to look like you're saying it for the first time. That's why we don't get standing ovations, to be honest. Solo shows. That's showing your work. I talk really fast and then I talk really slow and I'm gonna talk really loud and I'm gonna be really exaggerated and then I'm gonna talk really slow again. And that's how I beat cancer. Lights out, standing ovation. You know what I mean? Like, it's theatric. Stand up comedy is like, all right, so, like, I was doing this and I feel like you might think this too. Okay. My mom. You know what I mean? You're just like having lunch with your.
- [53:50]
Dan
Girlfriend, trying to connect, finding something that.
- [53:53]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And it's supposed to feel casual. But I have done said that sentence 400 times. But you feel like we're just hanging out, you know? Yeah. And so I love the art form so much, I sometimes just snob about it because. Yeah, it's. It is.
- [54:12]
Dan
The best always are. I would assume that any of your peers that you would consider excellent would say almost all of them are snobs about it, that they. I've. Jay Leno will talk about critiquing the hand movements of somebody in an act, because when you're watching somebody's act, you're watching it differently than I am.
- [54:32]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm. Mm. No, for sure. Yeah. I think you had Anthony Jeselnik too. Yeah. He's also someone who really takes the crowd seriously. I love watching him and listening to him talk about it. Yeah.
- [54:45]
Dan
Has it given you a freedom that you could have even dreamt about back when life was so confining? Like, what has. How much freedom has there been in doing this as a career?
- [55:02]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, there's a lot of freedom, but also freedom comes with restrictions. What was the saying? It's like, responsibility comes with what? No, no. What was it? Power. Responsibility, Right. The more power, the more responsibility you have. Right. That's Spider Man.
- [55:18]
Dan
I don't know if that's the saying.
- [55:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I don't know what's the saying? Do you watch Spider Man?
- [55:22]
Dan
I don't. I'm not a Spider man person.
- [55:24]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Who's Spiderman? Person becomes great, responsibility with great power becomes great.
- [55:29]
Dan
Right, but I didn't know that was Spider Man.
- [55:31]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I don't know if it was him that said it at first. It could have been a guy in Greece or something, like the musical.
- [55:42]
Dan
Sorry, I stepped on a lot of philosophers.
- [55:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
No, no, no, no, no, no. A lot of philosophers come from there, so I just assume maybe it was some Greek philosopher.
- [55:51]
Dan
So wait a minute. You're being agreeable here. But you don't think it's freedom. You think it's been responsibility that comes with restrictions. And, and by the way, yeah, by the way, I would recognize it because I, I thought when I started my own business that I was starting toward freedom. Like true freedom, away from corporate overlords, from restrictions and everything else. And as soon as I got out the door, no, it came with responsibility and restrictions. So I recognize what you're saying, but I assume that because it was laughter and lighter and perhaps I erred in assuming this, you must be so competitive about staying on top that all of a sudden it doesn't feel like freedom. I've got to keep feeding this machine. And not only that, not only that, your popularity has been rocket fueled by what you are in the social media space. And that thing needs to be fed all the time.
- [56:42]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, right, that too. Yeah. And also, you know, because it's like building a community or even just something as logistical as, like, being out and about. Can I take a picture with you? You know. Oh, you've been watching me this whole time as I was having a tiny little argument with Ryan. You know what I mean? Or like right now, this whole conversation, I've been like, sit up straight. Sit up straight at the back of my head. Don't put your hands. Don't put your hands in a weird place, whatever. You know what I mean? Things like that. Because like, we're being filmed. I'm being myself.
- [57:22]
Dan
No, I understand what you're saying. But fully aware, always, that you're being watched as well. Like when you are, I don't know where. What the comfort, where. Where are you most content in privacy.
- [57:34]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, right. And then also making sure that. Yes, exactly. So that's, that's one big thing. And then another one is, I don't know. Even when I said, okay, I have the freedom to tell the relatives, no, you're not sending grandma away to Taiwan. But that means I have to quickly figure my shit out too, because I'm like, okay, I have the. Maybe the finances and you like an assistant now to help figure out where to put Grandma and mom, you know, but that is restricting, too, because it's like, okay, I have to quickly then set aside that money or something. You know, it just comes like that.
- [58:14]
Dan
Are you gentle with yourself in your perfectionism? Because you didn't. I don't know that we fully got to where it is that your perfectionism is a. Is a plague or can be a plague.
- [58:27]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right? Yeah, I'm learning to be. Yeah. And Ryan has really helped me with that. I now have a therapist, too. It's only been two sessions, though, so. And I was supposed to see her today, but I had to move it because I was seeing you.
- [58:43]
Dan
Well, here you go. There you go. Some replacement therapy for you here.
- [58:46]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Don't let her know she might be watching or she might watch. I don't know. I don't know what the rules are with a therapist watching her stuff.
- [58:54]
Dan
But two sessions in, though. Only two sessions in. So you are. You are just starting the process now?
- [59:00]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah.
- [59:00]
Dan
Of. I need to analyze. Well, I would imagine this. Whatever culture shock has been in your life up to now, I would also imagine there is some culture shock in being recognized for what it is that you do. I don't know. I don't pretend to know what it is that you're dealing with in therapy, but I imagine your life has changed yet again.
- [59:21]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Seeing a therapist.
- [59:22]
Dan
No, I'm saying just the success that you've had, just everything that's come with. Sometimes your dreams arrive as you expected them to arrive, and sometimes they come with complications you were not expecting. I'm being presumptuous here. I have no idea why you've decided now. I'm going to try therapy.
- [59:38]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, sure, Yeah. I mean, it's been. Yeah, it's all of that. It's the quick. What was it? The momentum of the career, but also family stuff. You know, my grandma's aging. My mom's mental illness is getting worse, and she's also aging, so it's kind of hand in hand.
- [59:56]
Dan
And Hourglass. Put all your business out there.
- [59:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, but thank goodness for that, because I'm always like, oh, put it out there. I don't mind that. I like that.
- [60:07]
Dan
But it forces you to examine it as well, though. Like, after a lifetime of family members not talking about this stuff, and I don't know when you came to the realization, oh, my family doesn't talk about shit.
- [60:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, gosh, a long time ago, as a kid, when I would go to other people's homes and have dinner there with their family, and they're like, laughing and talking, catching each up. Catching each other up on their days. Even if it was, like, drama. Even if it was like they were fighting. I was like, you guys fight. They're like, your family doesn't. That's so awesome. I'm like, yeah, but we also don't laugh. We don't share anything. I don't know what my. I don't know what my uncle's been up to all day. I don't really know what I. If I know what he does for work. You know what I mean?
- [60:54]
Dan
That's remarkably repressed. Like, it is off the. What you're describing. You know it vastly better than I imagine anybody listening to this. But what you're describing is the height of repression. It seems like a lot of stuff would get stuffed down there and that any of those people would benefit from examining it with an expert who examined such things psychologically.
- [61:18]
Atsuko Okatsuka
In our family, it was always up to the spouse that the blood family married to be the one that's more lively and like, oh, you know, so, like, it's the aunt that married into my family that's more talkative. Or Ryan is the one that actually gets my family talking at dinners now.
- [61:33]
Dan
Yeah, but you've escaped. You realize that, right? Because I know that in my family, my father's all of the grandparents and uncles, they were in a band that was famous in Oregon, but it was just all men, and it was all caricature repressed men who weren't exploring their feelings. And so all of that ends up getting passed down. And I'm somebody who tries to break free from all of that. But it can be a bit of an anchor. You.
- [62:05]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right.
- [62:05]
Dan
The career you chose is so flamboyantly colorful that I keep going back to sort of the freedom of your inner child getting now to experience what would be the equivalent of child in adulthood. But it comes with all of these restrictions and responsibilities as well, and then the aging of your mother and your grandmother as well, which is also very complicated.
- [62:27]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, right, Totally. Yeah. And so my therapist has a lot of things ahead of her. Okay. Week two. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, we have a lot to cover. But, you know, she's great. I love her.
- [62:40]
Dan
Your confidence now, though, would be, at the highest point that it has been professionally, Right?
- [62:44]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. That is. Yeah. Undeniable. Yeah, that is something. Yeah.
- [62:48]
Dan
Well, but that must feel very secure and very soothing because, I mean, if you dream about doing this and are perfectionist about doing it, my guess is that the fear of failure throughout would be something that would be very damaging to happiness.
- [63:03]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, right. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, you're always a little scared. Yeah. And always want things to work out, so there's sometimes a little fear, but. Yeah. But the confidence is easier to tap into, for sure.
- [63:19]
Dan
And are you finding it that it's rewarded? It's being rewarded at every turn? Like, are you finding that. That now failure is not as present? The fear of failure is not.
- [63:33]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh. It isn't. But also, you know, there's more pressure as you do the next project. The next project. Right.
- [63:44]
Dan
Okay, so the answer's no, then. Then the answer is the answer is not fear of failure. No. Because now, you know, because now you've arrived at a place where you have expectations. And I can see why those or how those would be a burden as opposed to a pleasure.
- [63:58]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Mm. Right. Right. Yeah. But I do have confidence going into it. It's more just. I'm, like, still kind of like, self critiquing, like. Okay, okay. Nope, that joke wasn't it. I'm gonna rewrite it. You know, I'm gonna. Which will then force me to write like another 15 new minutes, because that's a new topic and different. You know, how do I make that fit into this new hour that I'm writing? I gotta be ready in a week.
- [64:27]
Dan
See, what you're articulating here is not joy. And I understand it because this is something that I struggle with all the time. It's been a recurring theme of these conversations that I have, which is, if I've gotten to the place that I've always imagined myself being, how is it that I cannot just stop and enjoy it while I'm in it with a cognizance that doesn't have this plague of, how do I make it better? This isn't good enough. I got to keep doing. I got to cut out until you just, you know, fall over one day because you were working all of your life. Like, this is the struggle for me. And it sounds. Every time I talk to you, every time I say to you something about freedom or something else, you're responsible response is no. Well, yeah, maybe, but what about. I got this restriction over here. And also, I need to make this better. And let's wrap this up. I've got jokes to write.
- [65:19]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah. I wonder if it's because I think, you know, having like a. And I've seen people do this. My friend Chelsea Handler does this. She writes like the gratitude list. Right. Like having a gratitude list. Things you're thankful for. I think that I should start practicing that because then you can, you know, you say, oh. You said, if you've arrived at where you've always dreamed of being and you're like, it's not enough. It's not enough. But my problem is I never dreamed of anything, so I don't know what my ultimate goal is. Does that make sense? I didn't have self confidence to dream that big. I never saw standups on TV and said I could do that, like some comedians have. I'm like, what? Your upbringing must have been so good that you can see someone and go, that's gonna be me one day. What? In what world? I was like, no way that's gonna be me. Why would it be me?
- [66:12]
Dan
Well, you were too busy surviving.
- [66:14]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yeah, but also I'm like, okay. I think, you know, at that time in the industry too, it was like there were only 20 standup comedians that were on TV and that's it. Margaret Cho was one of them. I thought it was so cool. I thought it was so cool to see an Asian American woman doing stand up comedy. But in what world would I think there's gonna be a second one? I'm like, no, this is it. She got the slot. It's awesome. That's it. I was, I was stoked. I was like, oh, stand up comedy is cool. It's only for 20 people at a time. Because they sure made it feel that way. They really did. Margaret Cho was the first Asian American woman to have a stand up special on HBO and I was the second. It was 27 years in between. Why would a little Asian girl watching TV think she could do stand up too, if it took that long? I'm lucky. We know each other, we're friends. You know what I mean? And so maybe that's part of why, like, I'm like, no, no, we must go, must go. Because I don't know what I've reached. You know, maybe I need to spell out gratitude list. Maybe I need to spell out I will be. I'm happy enough. I don't know, five stand up specials and everyone in my family is happy and healthy and I have that TV show and that movie and I can pause and be happy. Maybe I take a break in Japan or something like that. Maybe I need to spell it out, you know? And I don't know if that's what you have done or you. I don't know if it's. If you've said, this is where you want to be.
- [67:52]
Dan
I'm trying to be very conscious. But this. The particulars of talking to interesting people in a way that is revealing and intimate. In Los Angeles, enjoying my work. No, this would represent, while I'm sitting in it, what I want. And so I am grateful for it, for your time, and for everything that we've done here, because I can be in it right now as we're experiencing it. As can you be when you're in London with your husband and you're coming off of stage. And that is a place where you can, for a moment, not be off to the next special.
- [68:29]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Right, right. Or in Miami with you next time.
- [68:32]
Dan
All right, Well, I look forward to that. Let me tell the people here that you can watch her special on Hulu. It's called Father. And you can get her shows and tickets. I'm sorry. Because Atsuko is very popular and atsuko comedy.com is where you go for shows and tickets if they're still available. They are, right?
- [68:52]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Yes. Yes, they are. They're not sold out everywhere for the new material show. This is my new hour. Yes, they should be.
- [68:58]
Dan
They should be sold out everywhere.
- [68:59]
Atsuko Okatsuka
A lot of shows are, but we're like. It's. Yeah, we're just adding them by the.
- [69:05]
Dan
End of the sentence. There might not be any more tickets yet. You heard her. She promised to see us in Miami. You've got to watch her Hulu special. It's called father and@otsuko.com for upcoming shows and tickets. Also, she's in a Pixar film. Elio, I didn't even mention that. Congratulations on all your success. I was very happy to get to spend this time with you. And I'm gonna hold you to it. You, when you're in Miami, you got to spend time with us.
- [69:29]
Atsuko Okatsuka
I will. I will. How do I tell you that? It's Otsuko comedy dot com.
- [69:34]
Dan
Okay, you can do it right now. What did I say?
- [69:36]
Atsuko Okatsuka
Calm. It's okay.
- [69:37]
Dan
Okay.
- [69:38]
Atsuko Okatsuka
You got this.
- [69:38]
Dan
Okay? Otsuko comedy.com is where it is. We got it. Let me stumble at the end. End. And you got it right. You professional at the end.
- [69:45]
Atsuko Okatsuka
And you crushed it.
- [69:46]
Dan
Me here to serve. I'm sweating. Can you see how much I'm sweating?
- [70:00]
C
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