South Beach Sessions - Baron Davis

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: South Beach Sessions - Baron Davis
Release Date: January 30, 2025

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Introduction

In this deeply personal episode of South Beach Sessions, hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz engage in an intimate conversation with former NBA star Baron Davis. Stripping away the typical bravado, Davis opens up about his tumultuous upbringing, the profound impact of his family, his basketball career fraught with injuries, and his journey toward forgiveness and personal growth.

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Early Life and Upbringing in Los Angeles

Baron Davis shares a harrowing account of his childhood in Los Angeles, highlighting the pervasive violence and instability he faced from a young age.

• Exposure to Violence:
  “By the time I hit 10 years old, I had been to like 13, 14 funerals for kids, not adults…” (02:53)

• Living Conditions:
  Davis recounts the constant threat of gang violence and the unpredictability of his environment.
  “If you live in this hood or if you live in this… welfare,… you hang out at the park, you know, at 2, 3 o'clock in the morning.” (02:53)

• Family Stability:
  His grandparents provided a semblance of stability amidst chaos.
  “My grandparents just kind of like flipped the switch and gave me stability, gave me and my sister stability.” (02:53)

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Basketball as an Escape

Basketball becomes Davis's sanctuary, a creative outlet that allowed him to navigate and cope with his tumultuous surroundings.

• Creative Process:
  “Basketball is art. That was my art. I could escape. I could use my… I was all imagination.” (13:13)

• Therapeutic Outlet:
  Davis describes how the game helped him transform negativity into creativity.
  “Everything, you start living in this tunnel, you know what I mean? A safer tunnel than everything else you were dealing with.” (13:13)

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Forgiveness and Relationship with His Parents

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Davis's complex relationship with his parents and his journey toward forgiveness.

• Struggles with Absent Parents:
  Davis speaks candidly about growing up without a consistent parental presence.
  “I was always the kid on the AAU team that everybody felt sorry for… I was one of the only kids who… didn't have parents there.” (02:53)

• Forgiving His Father:
  After his father's death, Davis reflects on forgiving him and the ensuing emotional liberation.
  “I forgive you. It could be because if you chose a different path… I just kind of wouldn't trade how I did this for anything.” (27:48)

• Reconciliation:
  Their final interactions were bittersweet, filled with both forgiveness and unresolved emotions.
  “I had to forgive myself again for my ignorance.” (44:12)

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College Years and Overcoming Injuries

Davis's transition to UCLA was marked by significant challenges, including severe injuries that threatened his basketball aspirations.

• Injuries Began Early:
  “I broke my ankle when I was in ninth grade. And then I came back playing, like, a week out of a cast because I wanted to get recruited.” (78:23)

• College Setbacks:
  His time at UCLA was marred by a torn ACL and other physical ailments.
  “I tore my ACL. After I tear my ACL, I get to the league. I'm okay.” (78:23)

• Determination to Return:
  Despite continual pain and setbacks, Davis exhibited relentless perseverance.
  “I started working my way back. And then I came back my sophomore year.” (64:27)

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Professional Career and the Clippers Experience

Davis candidly discusses his tenure with the Los Angeles Clippers, shedding light on the internal dysfunction and challenges posed by the ownership.

• Dysfunctional Environment:
  “It was extreme dysfunction. Like, you don't know what the fuck you're doing when you go to work. You don't know if you got anything.” (96:14)

• Clippers Ownership Issues:
  Davis criticizes the Clippers' ownership, likening the environment to chaos and highlighting the lack of genuine support for players.
  “Donald Sterling is not a racist. He is a hate. Everybody is. He don’t give a shit.” (84:51)

• Attempts at Building a Competitive Team:
  Despite high hopes, Davis felt the Clippers fell short of expectations due to poor management and lack of cohesion.
  “I figured Clippers have the talent. With Elton Brand… So I go in thinking, I'm going thinking, like, oh man, I get to… we are going to carry the team.” (92:06)

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Post-Career Reflections and Current Endeavors

Davis reflects on his career's impact on his personal life and discusses his current ventures aimed at fostering community and business leadership.

• Emotional Toll of the NBA:
  The constant demands and personal sacrifices took a significant emotional toll on Davis.
  “This is my life. So when I got injured, it was almost like, now they can have my attention.” (80:38)

• Forging New Paths:
  Transitioning out of professional basketball, Davis channels his experiences into entrepreneurial ventures.
  “Some of what it is you're doing. TeamBig IO… blacksanta.com… we’re trying to have our own Black Santa Claus and bring our community together.” (101:23)

• Commitment to Community:
  Davis emphasizes the importance of giving back and supporting his community through his business initiatives.
  “We do mixers, summits, and we bring entrepreneurs and the right people together in the right space.” (101:23)

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Notable Quotes

• On Overcoming Adversity:
  “I never was 100%. Ever. I don't even think I was even, ever. 90%, probably.” (78:23)

• On Mental Health and Trauma:
  “I grew up with this anxiety, with this PTSD and church, my grandparents, basketball, everything else.” (06:43)

• On Family and Unconditional Love:
  “Like, unconditional love, like, that's a grandmother's love, it's just so unconditional.” (46:10)

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Conclusion

Baron Davis's conversation with Dan Le Batard offers a raw and unfiltered glimpse into the life of a basketball legend who has navigated immense personal and professional challenges. From his harrowing childhood in Los Angeles to his battles with injuries in the NBA, Davis's story is one of resilience, forgiveness, and a relentless pursuit of personal growth. His current endeavors reflect a dedication to uplifting his community and fostering meaningful connections, demonstrating that his journey extends far beyond the basketball court.

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Timestamps

• Early Life and Upbringing: 02:53
• Basketball as an Escape: 06:43
• Forgiveness and Relationship with Parents: 27:48, 44:12
• College Years and Overcoming Injuries: 64:27, 78:23
• Professional Career and Clippers Experience: 84:51, 96:14
• Post-Career Reflections: 80:38, 101:23

Note: Timestamps are indicated in the transcript sections and correspond to key moments discussed in the summary.

Transcript

[Baron Davis]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Welcome to South Beach Sessions, west coast style. I'm very excited about this one. I'm going to call this man my interview nemesis because he only wants to show you so much of himself. He likes this creative process a little bit. You tell me whether I've got anything wrong here. Baron Davis, two time All Star, but so much more than that. Like, I don't know if two time All Star is the least interesting part of his story, but he's got more story to tell here. But I feel like what you have felt during the process of interviews over the course of your career, a lot of gotcha. A lot of journalists trying to get you to say things and not totally understood. So you play with the form and don't actually reveal anything intimate because you are careful that way. So I'm hoping that over the course of this, I, I can get to know you a little bit better. And I don't know if you're gonna allow it. I'm gonna see if you deflect.

[Baron Davis]

No shark dogs this time.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I'm gonna see. Yes. During the pandemic, he just made a total mockery of everything that we were doing at ESPN in a way I found delightful because at that point we were ready to leave ESPN and I felt like you were in on the joke. But I don't feel like I've gotten to know what your actual roots are. Not just la, but like how you were raised by your grandmother, how it is you got to where you are. And so these are meant to, they're meant to be biographical. And we will see how close you allow us to the truth here because you, you're a very creative person and I've loved to see what it is you've been trying to do in your city after. From afar.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

When I watched your career and I'm like, this guy loves L. A, gets to ucla, blows out his knees, so that story doesn't go quite the way he wanted to. Gets to the league as a sophomore way too early to get to the league, then gets his dream with the Clippers and has a racist owner who makes everything awful. And you thought it was going to Be something and it became something else. But I don't want to speak for you, I do want to get to the roots of how all of that was made. So let's start with how it is that you grew up in Los Angeles and what Los Angeles means to you. Because it seems to have the same pull on you that Miami has for me.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, man, I think, you know, when you grow up in a city like Miami or la, especially growing up in la, as I was saying this last night, as a kid, by the time I hit 10 years old, I had been to like 13, 14 funerals for kids, not adults, you know what I mean? These were kids, kids getting shot, kids dying, playing, you know what I mean? And so I seen so much death, I seen so much drugs, I seen so much gang violence, I seen so much everything. Everything you could imagine, you know what I mean? By 10 years old, right where I lived was like. It was. If you paid attention, you're in the worst fucking place in the world. Can I cuz you're in the worst. I was in the worst place that you can be. And there were epicenters in la, in the hood, where it's like, hey, if you live in this hood or if you live in this, you know, on this street, like you're pretty much never, like, you're never gonna make it, let alone seeing down the block, seeing around the corner, like, you know, welfare, you know what I mean? You in and out of crack houses, you in and out of, we don't know where the fuck we at. You hang out at the park, you know, at 2, 3 o'clock in the morning. And then my grandparents just kind of like flipped the switch and gave me stability, gave me and my sister stability. So from that moment I could do nothing but as an 18 year old kid, appreciate the fact that I can go to bed and wake up and I can do that every day, you know what I mean, and not have to worry about is the house being raided, like, where the fuck are we going tonight? You know what I mean? Like, damn, it's just me and my little sister here. What happened to the lights? So the people who know me, they know even my aau, I was always the kid on the AAU team that everybody felt sorry for, you know what I mean? Cause I didn't have parents and like my grandparents, they was old and they went into sports, but I was one of the only kids who like literally didn't have parents there, you know what I mean? And if any of my teammates saw my Parents. It would be probably the most embarrassing shit on the planet. You know what I mean? And so that's just kind of like how I lived. I lived with this creativity, you know, basketball and this mask. And so it's like, I can flip this shit. I can take the crackhead and put him on the court. And now like, oh, damn, he used to hoop. Oh, you hooped in high school, you know what I mean? And so it was more so like, you know, the negativity, the guns, the drugs. Like, I used to dribble between my legs, like, going into the school, and I would. I had to dribble all the way to the court. If I messed up, I had to go all the way back to my house, which was like, across the street, but also thinking about, all right, I better hurry up and get here before it's a drive by. I better hurry up and get here before somebody come, you know, gangs come, or some problems. And so I grew up with this anxiety, with this PTSD and church, my grandparents, basketball, everything else. Like, I had to turn things into, like, comedy, right? I had to relate things to, like, movies and tv.

[Dan Le Batard]

I want to talk to you about creativity as an escape from all of that stuff and imagination, like, to be able to dream for you. What I've noticed in your post career, in observing you, is how much you gravitate toward possibilities. And I was wondering, sort of the source of the inspiration of that, because I'm, like, hearing you with John C. Reilly and Will Ferrell over here, just choosing the opportunities that Hollywood provides. But let's go back, just because I want to do this, not necessarily chronologically, but biographically. So you're an adult by 10 years old, right? Like, you've. And somewhere along the lines, I don't know when this happened, you learned to love and appreciate la, at least in part because of how tough it made you, I imagine.

[Baron Davis]

I didn't know what. I didn't know la. I only knew my neighborhood. Going to church. It was only where we went. My neighborhood on Sundays we go to church. There was no activities until basketball came. And then I finally got a chance to play football in Inglewood. So it was like, okay, my house, Inglewood. Now I know people in Inglewood. And so it was very gated growing up. LA was gated like you.

[Dan Le Batard]

And you're outside the gates. You're not allowed in the gates.

[Baron Davis]

We're in the epicenter of, like, we're inside the gate. You know what I mean? It's like if there was a wall when I was growing up that could have been built so people wouldn't have to see a certain part of la. They could have built that shit in South Central. You know what I mean? And that's what it was. I always say it's invisible, Wal, because, you know, here I am on Manchester and San Pedro. You got Main, you know, you got Broadway. Those two different gangs. San Pedro's different. Avalon, next street different. So you like, you know, city blocks. That's like, those belong to someone else. So there's no walking to McDonald's, even though it's four blocks away. There's no walking to the grocery store. I mean, you can. But everything is like a chance. It's like you literally taking a chance.

[Dan Le Batard]

Which it's not the way kids should be living. It's not the way kids should be thinking.

[Baron Davis]

No, not at all. Like I always say, like, can you imagine if I could walk from Manchester and San Pedro to the beach? It's not that far. Or ride a bike. It ain't happening. I can't even go to the bus stop. And so that's how I got to Crossroads. Cause my grandmother was just like. She needed me to go somewhere else.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, Crossroads, a private school in Santa Monica.

[Baron Davis]

Crossroads, a private school in Santa Monica. My AAU basketball coach worked for K Swiss. He was the marketing director at K Swiss. They sponsored like four high school teams. And Tony Smith, remember Tony Smith played for the Lakers. And Crossroads was one of the teams. There was a point guard at Crossroads named Trayvon Dugard. He was like 5, 5, 5, 6. And my AAU coach was like, damn, that could be Baron. He's not gonna grow past five'five you know, he would be good around. Like, he could actually assimilate to white people. You know what I mean? Cause, like, you gotta think only white people we know is the people we play against in AAU basketball. And so he was. He. The high school coach was from my neighborhood. And my grandmother wanted me to go somewhere where I got out the neighborhood because one of my friends got killed on the bus stop at like 7, 8 o'clock in the morning, going to school. And so that was the bus. That's like the bus stop I have to take. You know what I mean? Like, I can't walk to the next bus stop.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was the last stop for Grandma. She's like, that's it.

[Baron Davis]

She was like, man, if he can't walk around the corner, go sit on the bus stop. And, like, that's the most dangerous part of the day. Like, the bus Stop is the most dangerous part of the day when you're going from elementary to middle school.

[Dan Le Batard]

And if you're walking, you can't walk. And she can't take you either, right?

[Baron Davis]

No, she don't drive, right? She don't drive. My grandfather drove, and so when I went to Crossroads, my grandfather would drive me from Manchester and San Pedro to Manchester and Crenshaw, which is like a bus ride, so I wouldn't have to be on the bus. My AAU coach would pick me up and take me to Crossroads, then drive all the way to Burbank, like, all the way back around the city. And so I always say, like, I was blessed, you know, that's why I'm so positive.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's hard to believe how positive you are all the time.

[Baron Davis]

It's crazy. Well, it's like, you know, it's also like a. I'm not. I'm not sure I deserve all this shit, you know what I'm saying? But I know that there's a greater calling, a higher purpose. And I understand, like, a lot of things because I've had to understand me through other people, understand me through other situations, you know, and more so, like, take my agendas, take my selfishness, and put that shit to the side. Because I've always tried to, like, save somebody or, like, bring somebody along, you know what I mean? And whether that, you know, is to my detriment, you know, why I kept getting hurt in the league or whatnot, you know, I just kind of wouldn't trade how I did this for anything because I learned so much about myself. I learned so much about the person that I was as a kid. I can relate to that kid now. I can communicate to that kid now. But also, like, I want to help solve problems, you know what I mean? Because a lot of it is creativity. I keep going back to. That is you escape. If it wasn't for basketball, like, basketball is art. That was my art. I could escape. I could use my. I was all imagination. I was all dreams. You know what I mean? It didn't matter who it was. If you want to hoop, cool. You know what I mean? If we watching basketball, cool. So that was like, every day you start to see. Like, you start living in this tunnel, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

A safer tunnel than. A way safer tunnel than everything else you were dealing with. I want to talk to you, and we will get to all of this about how it is that you walk with gratitude now and may feel like you don't deserve all of the opportunities that have come your way. Because the odds, I don't know that people understand what the odds are against you arriving in the places that you arrived. When you talk about the anxiety and the ptsd. But I don't know the story, and forgive my ignorance here as to how it is that you came to not have parents when the other kids are seeing that you don't have parents and are being raised by your grandparents.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, you know, it was LA la, drugs, gangs. It was at the height crack epidemic. And you know, my parents fell victim to that. It wasn't, you know, it started like, oh, this was great. Like I'm just a normal kid, get a lot of toys, hella spoiled, you know what I mean? And then it was like nothing. Eating, you know, eating out. We only had a frying skillet, we only had like one blanket and a heater. We had, you know, all our shit got pushed out. And you at the park, it was like you went from like banging on drums and having all these toys to like literally nothing. And you know, you blame it on, you know, the system or you know, you blame your parents for, you know, their lifestyle and the partying and like you never, you know, it's like I never had a relationship with my dad. Never understood him, you know what I mean? Like I felt like he, like he had good energy, you know what I mean? Like he was always smiling and shit. But I knew nothing about him outside of like, who knows? This is what he do. He'd come around every blue moon, you know what I mean? Once or twice every two or three months. But because he wasn't there, it wasn't like I needed him, you know what I mean? And so like it was normal for me. It was normal for me to be.

[Dan Le Batard]

The kid, to be on your own, to be self sufficient. So. But how does, how do you go from having. So you see the crack epidemic sort of just sweep through your living room. Like you see the deterioration of your parents.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, it was crazy. It's like the whole neighborhood, you know, I remember I learned my mom taught me how to catch the bus at like 4 years old. And she, she was a beautician, she worked in a salon. And I would catch the bus at 4, you know, like she. I learned a lot. Everything was good. I was a mature kid. I had a lot of love and like I had, I did not want for anything. And then it went from that to like nothing.

[Dan Le Batard]

And you have the childhood snapshots. I remember so little of my life at that age. I don't have. But I grew up exile sheltered. Like my parents were just afraid and that was not coming through my neighborhood. It was just small, keep it small. And your grandmother or your grandparents were trying to keep. But I'm talking about before then. You are, it sounds like you're becoming.

[Baron Davis]

An adult fast as, like, you know, you fast, you know, you six, seven. I'm getting kicked out of school in third grade, you know, for cussing out teachers and shit like that. And it be, you know, it's just, you're just forced to, you're only around adults, you know what I mean? And like the adults are dominating all of the time in the day, in the lifestyle. And the kids, like we go outside and play. That was our disconnect from the world.

[Dan Le Batard]

So you're out at 2 and 3 in the morning because you're not supervised a lot.

[Baron Davis]

Like sometimes they would go out, they got kids, they want to do their thing where they, where the fuck do you drop some kids off at the park. And so that's how I got good at basketball too. Like I, I would be at the park, you know, or swing like you playing at the park at like 11, 12 o'clock at night. And so that's kind of like I got used to that. But I knew like, all right, the car over there, you know, outside, you know, pull in, drop us off in the park, then pull outside the park. Park across the street from the park next to an industrial spot where the cops can't really jam you up. You know what I mean? So that was that, that was like a lot of. It was just a lot of like being in like weird ass situations and like figuring out how to make the most of it. But you don't know as a kid, you don't know. It's like, shit, man, I think it's cool. I'm at the park, it's 11 o'clock, it's dark. Like it's just me and my sister and maybe two other kids. Um, we know what's going on, but we don't really, you know what I mean? We don't really know what's going on.

[Dan Le Batard]

Cause I was just gonna ask you, it sounds like you had your childhood stolen, but you're saying children don't know that they're having their childhood stolen.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, you and I had a great childhood. Cause I still got to be a kid. Like the opposite side of that was my grandparents, a lot of love, my sisters, my friends, like we played a lot. But like you like you were covered, right? Your parents Said, whatever's going on in the world, we're gonna make sure Dan can just see what he needs to see until the world opens up. My shit was like, boom. All right, what's all this? Right? And so now you gotta figure out, who do you trust?

[Dan Le Batard]

Cause that's a big one, man.

[Baron Davis]

One wrong turn, I'm a kid, right? One wrong turn, I'm kidnapped. One wrong turn, you know, I'm somewhere else. You know what I mean? Like, anything could happen. One wrong turn, I could have been in the gang. One wrong turn, I could have drank or smoked something that I shouldn't have. And so it's just. It was just tough because this world is opened up now. You got to figure out, okay, who do I trust? Who gives me a feeling of being safe? Why is this person trying to help me, right? So then you, like you playing Russian roulette with all these different situations at.

[Dan Le Batard]

8 years old, and I don't know how you are taught or learned what love is. Never mind. Trust you've got. Trust is one thing. I don't even know how all of this would impact future relationships for you or just general dystopia on what your relationship is with women, with men, with authority figures, with any of.

[Baron Davis]

Has a huge impact, I think, because you don't feel like, my grandmother's love, most incredible love in the world. My grandfather, love before he passed away, the most incredible love in the world. But when I start thinking about it as an adult, it's like, those are your grandparents. They never told you about their life. They never told you about their past. They just made it safe for you to wake up, go to sleep, get mad at you for not cleaning. You know, just the little things. But, like, they didn't. They weren't connected to a little kid growing up, listening now hip hop and all.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, you know, and what does their relationship look like? Like, what are you learning in the generational gap there about how a man and get along to provide safety for a child?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, yeah. It's like my grand. I would say my grandparents, I watched them be taken advantage of by their kids. They open their house. My grandfather, if you were walking in off the street and needed food, they would feed you. You know what I mean? My grandmother, like, go get them something to eat. This dude over here, he looked like, go get him something. Like, that's how kind of like, that's where that love was. Like, people stopped by our house all the time. Whether you were up, you were down, you were good, you were bad, it was Just almost like this big therapy place. And it was like home for a lot of people and it was safe. Even when you was out in the street doing all the bullshit, right, you run back to the house. Cause you know, like anybody coming around this little gate and border, oh, it's, you know, is action. So that made, that brought so many different people into my world, like random shit every day, you know what I mean? Credit card scam right there on the table. Hey, let me get one of them credit cards. Get your ass out of here. You know what I mean? Like, damn, I can't get a credit card. Go shopping, I get in trouble, I get a whooping, you know, drugs, violence, gang violence, all kind of violence. Like, you know, like watching my dad and my mom fight and like my mom. And then now I'm sitting in the back seat with my mom going to the hospital, you know what I mean? So it's like I could kill somebody. I could kill him. I could kill my mama boyfriend. I'm eight years old. This is what I'm thinking outside of basketball and like everything like the dark side is I should kill him if he goes to sleep.

[Dan Le Batard]

Because you're seeing your mother beaten or you're seeing.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, just saying like you mistreat my mom. I don't like my mom. Cause she being mistreated. It's not, you know what I mean? And then like, man, I should, when this dude goes to sleep, I'm going in the kitchen, getting the biggest knife I can and I'm going, it's over. You know what I mean? And so what kid needs to be thinking about that? Eight years old, you know what I mean? And you thinking about like if I, if I like all these things are going, if I decide to do this, I better do it and be successful or he's gonna heal me, you know what I mean? And you know, I think my grandparents just was like once I got with them, it was just like I was protected. My grandfather, my grandmother, like me and my little sister, we start become protected, we start feeling safe, you know what I mean? We start to be more of a kid now. All the vices and the shit that was coming, we got to now a chance to sit back and watch people like TV instead of being in it, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Of course. I mean, yes, a saving grace. Even more than basketball. Before we get to though how it is or what it is that you remember about coming into their care beyond being in the back seat as an 8 year old thinking about how do I Rescue my mother here. What do you regard as the most turbulent or scary or trauma inducing landmark before 10 years old that others would say, okay, there are the roots of where it is that Baron Davis started to be stronger earlier than he ever should have had to get strong because he overcame X, Y and Z. I.

[Baron Davis]

Mean, I would say even before that, you know, you four, five, six years old, you living on the streets, you going walking in, staying in motels, right? So it wasn't, it was survival, right? And as a kid you just, you kind of like, you gotta trust the person you with. Cause like, where else the fuck you gonna go, you know what I mean? Like, who else do you trust? And so I think all of that happened kind of like when my grandfather built my basketball court for Christmas. And like basketball kind of came into my life. It kind of numbed me from people. Cause I had an instrument that didn't require anybody's help. I didn't have to tell anybody what I was doing. And like, this was kind of like my therapy. But like being in this survival mode, right, where it's like you really don't, you don't know what's gonna happen the next day. Like, you don't know what's gonna happen. You know what I mean? It's like you wake up, you're like, okay, okay, cool. The day was cool. We got through the day, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

So you're waking up with anxiety every morning.

[Baron Davis]

You're waking up not knowing what the hell you're gonna do if it, you know, you go to school. Like, if it wasn't for school, that was. But like kids, you know, in third, fourth grade, as you, you know, they ditching, cutting class, you know, getting suspended. So like that shit was like normal. That was normal.

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[Dan Le Batard]

Have you, as an adult, forgiven your parents? Like, what is your relationship as?

[Baron Davis]

So my dad passed away. He actually passed away the night before a Laker game, and that was the first game that I had invited him to.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, no.

[Baron Davis]

Yep. Yeah. I got to a point where, you know, I hated my dad a lot. I hate him a lot. And I didn't want nothing to do with him. I was embarrassed and, like, you know, it's one of those things. It's like, damn. Oh, now you want to show up? Cause I'm balling in high school. I'm about to go pro. And for him, I just think he was really just, like, always happy for me and was like, oh, shit, this is my son. You know what I mean? And it was like three or four years I was in the league, and then something hit me, and I was at a game, and I was like, yo, like, everybody here got dads. All my teammates had dads. Like, fathers. Like, real. I was like, damn. You know, Paul Silas, you got Steve Silas. It was like, they going to dinner with they dad. They dad come in. I'm like, shit, man. Like, I ain't got no goddamn daddy. I do have a daddy. Maybe I can help him. And so I went, I called my dad. I was like, bro, don't even trip. You know, I forgive you. It could be because if you chose a different path and you chose to be active in my life or try or even give an inkling of trying, I probably wouldn't have made it. So I gotta thank you, bro, for showing me all this shit, put me through all that shit. Cause it made me who I am. And I don't hold any more animosity to you because I made it so it wasn't like a despite. It was just like, you helped me get to where I needed to go because of how you were.

[Dan Le Batard]

That must be freeing. To forgive, to have gratitude.

[Baron Davis]

It was incredible. And on top of that, I'm about to do you one better, homie. I'm about to come back now. You about to get your shit together. And I want you at these games. Cause I want people to say, oh, this is my daddy. You know what I mean? And I got questions. You know what I mean? I got questions like, do you got a lump right here on the back of your neck? I got questions like, who am I in relationship to you? And so when I made. I made amends and we would talk, you know what I mean? It was, you know, it was awkward. Yeah, it was awkward. But it was also like, damn, I know that was him. I didn't pick up the phone on the first one. But I call him back. You know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, and you have to crave. It's somewhere. If you're always the kid who never has his parents at the games, there has to be a craving somewhere in there for like, even. No matter how tough, how many scars, you've got something that feels like love or, hey, be proud of me. Yeah, like that. That would feel good. That would feel good. To have someone be. Be proud of. Noted. Sharing that with someone, it was.

[Baron Davis]

It was almost like if they were proud of me, I would have been more upset.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why's that?

[Baron Davis]

Because that's where my angst. Like, that's where my interpretation. You gotta think I'm trying to interpret this shit myself. So if they would've been proud. Like, my dad showed up to the game, I remember in high school. And he was like, yeah, yeah. He was like rooting for me and shit, cheering for me, telling people he was my dad. And I kicked his ass. I told him, man, you gotta go, bro, you trippin'you. Know what I mean? Like, you ain't been around.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, I see.

[Baron Davis]

And you gonna pop up and you cheering for me, like, get your ass out.

[Dan Le Batard]

You haven't earned this. You've been embarrassing me.

[Baron Davis]

I was always mad, you know what I mean? I was just always mad until I made amends. Then when we were talking, I was like, man, you know what? I wanna invite you to a game. He was happy as shit, but at the time, he had emphysema, so he was kinda like fading. And we played the Utah Jazz and then we had the Lakers on the back to back. But I talked to him during my nap, like, yo, bro, you gotta come to the game. Got your tickets, you know, we come in tomorrow. Like, I want you to come to the game. Me and my teammates, Yada, yada, yada. I never forget, the plane landed from Utah. Soon as the plane land, I couldn't even turn My phone on, and it was ringing, but my sister called and said, daddy in the hospital, he may not be able to make it to the game. Before we left, when the phone rang, she was like, he did. And then I was like, damn. And I remember sitting on the bus, Eldon Campbell, Derrick Coleman come. My teammates just put their arm around me, was like, man, everything gonna be all right. I was like, of course it is. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't even know how to. Like, I didn't. I didn't know. It's a feel, like. It wasn't no feeling. It was just like, damn, dude. This is. It's hella fucked up. I played in the game, like. But it was like, why am I. Why am I thinking about this, man? Like this? So that's like you wrestling with. Do you love him? Do you care? I don't care. I'm tough, I'm strong. Like, fuck all this shit. You know what I mean? It's like you building this Persona, and it's like. I don't know if I'm sad, mad. You know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Confused.

[Baron Davis]

Confused. But I remember getting on that court. Shaq came up to me, D, Fish, Kobe, everybody, like, by the time the game started.

[Dan Le Batard]

But they don't know any of this. They don't know what your relationship is with your dad.

[Baron Davis]

I lost my dad. So everybody is like, damn, dude. Like, you think about it. It's like, oh, I lost my dad. Damn, if I lost my dad, I gotta reach out to bd. And they was like, man, you all right? I'm like, yeah. I'm like, you shouldn't be playing. I'm like. I said, hell if I ain't.

[Dan Le Batard]

This has always been the place I escaped to.

[Baron Davis]

I've always been the only thing I got, dude. This is like, the only thing I know I have that I can do, that I don't need anybody else to do.

[Dan Le Batard]

In retrospect, I don't know how you feel about it now, but. But God Almighty, what a blessing to forgive him and make amends before losing.

[Baron Davis]

It's crazy. It's crazy whether he gets to see.

[Dan Le Batard]

The game or not. You gave him something that felt, like, happy. Like it might have been the last happy thing he felt.

[Baron Davis]

Totally. Yeah. And he gave me something, too. You know what I mean? He gave me. It gave me the opportunity to walk in or try to learn who he was. So, like, as I get older, as I get kids, you know what I mean? Like, now I got two kids, and all I think about is like, damn, if I don't take my kids to school today. Like, they're gonna look at me like, how am I? You know what I mean? Like, if I travel and I'm gone for, like, three or four days at a conference on business, I gotta get my ass back. And so it kind of helped me, like, understand him more, understand his life. I know nothing about his life. You know what I mean? Still, bits and pieces.

[Dan Le Batard]

You were eager to ask those questions, so that's.

[Baron Davis]

I needed to, but I never got a chance. And so it's like, everything has been through, you know, discovery. Like, I learned a lot about my dad at his funeral. At his funeral. Everything I needed to know about him was three people got up and spoke. The three people that got up and spoke. I learned everything about this dude. He had a drug dealer he owed a lot of money to. And the drug dealer was like, man, you know what? He's the only dude that you know. And he was a tough dude. He was like, yo, he's the only dude that got a fucking IOU credit with me. And every time I see him, he just smile and be like, hey, man, I get you tomorrow. You know what I mean? And so he was like, man, that dude was so goddamn charming and helpful.

[Dan Le Batard]

So his dealer is one of the people giving the eulogy?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, yeah. People give up and give a speech. So like, the guy who was like his dealer and then his best friend, who we roll with was like, yo, man, like, whatever we was doing. And like every. You know, like, we do it, we party. Da, da, da. But he would always get up in the morning and we read the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, have a coffee and sit up, and we'd be like, yo, what are you doing? He's like, man, you gotta fit, you know? He was an intellect. He was an intellect, too. And so he was, like, highly intellectual. People say he was super smart. And then people say he was super crazy. Like, creative crazy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, wow.

[Baron Davis]

So you and my mama said he used to see things, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

So you got some of that, though? You got some of that?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, I got some of that. Yeah. I would say, like, creative, you know, creative. Creatively curious, you know? I've learned how to really just use curiosity as a learning tool to understand people, to be able to forgive people, be able to forgive myself, too, when I do wrong by people, you know what I mean? I would say that's how I, like, kind of like unlock my freedom, right? Is understanding that there's a. There's always, like, two ways to look at the scene. Right? There's a dark version, right. And there's a Disney version.

[Dan Le Batard]

I wish I were better at forgiving myself on some of that stuff. I haven't gotten to the freedom on the other side of. If you get good at being gentle with yourself, you can make some of the mistakes without, like, ravaging yourself and look at the light instead of the darkness.

[Baron Davis]

Why is that, though? Is it based on, like, the pressures of success?

[Dan Le Batard]

I would say that if you make me get to the roots of that, wherever it is that I was smothered by exile parents in a small world, and because work was the thing that would get you to freedom, and they were scared that whatever it is I was doing was not quite enough because I had to be a little bit better because the only way to freedom, it's.

[Baron Davis]

It.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I don't have any of any of these traumas. I got into my 50s without realizing how strong I was. But that. That hardened me, like, trying to always be better made. Made for a striving because it was like, the one thing that I was taught. But it's unforgiving.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, for sure. Because you're not. You're determined to get there. And so you don't really know. Sometimes, you know, it's like basketball. It's like you may. You know, I like the old coach come, like, oh, man. You know, like, the old coach is, like, mad because you haven't reached back to them or brought them along with you. And it's just like, when you're working, you're just punching. And when. And when you're obsessed with work and you're like, you know, like, when work is your lifestyle and your destination is to get there, like, it's not that you're not appreciative as it must be.

[Dan Le Batard]

To get to where you got right. Like, you got. People do not realize how obsessive compulsive you have to be about the sculpting and all the lopsided shit you have to be that, like, falls. I still don't understand how you were able to get to the league as a sophomore, even with. With everything it is that you're talking about. But in talking about your parents real quick and your father and how it is that you arrive in a place of forgiveness, a child. I have a lot of friends who lost parents to addiction or alcohol. And because it happened as kids, the feeling that they had is, why did you choose that over me, man?

[Baron Davis]

You can't do that.

[Dan Le Batard]

You didn't do any of that.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, hell yeah, you do that as a kid. But as an adult, I'm looking at it and like, man, you know, it's like, that's what you gonna automatically think as a kid, but as an adult, you, like, maybe he was embarrassed, you know what I mean? That's why he didn't come see me. Maybe he was hungover and had plans and intentions to come see me and it was just too late. I was already in school. So it, you know, like, I started making excuses for them, you know what I mean? As adults. Because shit, you're an adult. You got these kids. Like, do you want them or not? It don't matter. If you don't have no real responsibility, then you don't have a real responsibility. And so you gotta kinda live your life. Like they wanted to live their life and party and hang out and I'm sure that shit made them feel good, you know, But.

[Dan Le Batard]

So you never did any of that? Because you're talking to me about it as an adult. But I. And so you didn't even do that as a kid.

[Baron Davis]

As a kid, I hated him. Like, as a kid, I hated him because it wasn't so much. Yeah, I would say, like, you're choosing to live this lifestyle or a disease.

[Dan Le Batard]

Has a grip on you and you're not choosing much of anything. You can't. There is nothing.

[Baron Davis]

There's nothing you can do.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's nothing sad like.

[Baron Davis]

It's so sad because it ain't nothing you can do. You wake up, you wake up and you. Like, I wake up and go to school. They wake up and they. On a whole nother mission. It's a whole different lane, you know what I mean? It's like, here's the Disney movie. Here's the damn gangster movie and drug. Like, all of these movies are happening in my world and you as a.

[Dan Le Batard]

Child are viewing, like, physical things disappearing from your home that are being sold or like, to keep the habits going right? Like, you're just.

[Baron Davis]

Nah, we just went from like, Nah, they weren't even selling shit out the house. It went from, like. Cause I mean, we're on welfare, so you get welfare checks too. It went from, like, everything. We got kicked out. All our shit was on the sidewalk. And then once it's on the sidewalk, it's trash. So now you just. They ain't have nothing to sell now.

[Dan Le Batard]

You just don't have. Now you're just a child that doesn't have anything. No ebay back then to try and slow it down.

[Baron Davis]

Maybe they did. Maybe that's what happened to my toys and shit. I was like, what happened to my toys, man? I'm losing toys. I don't know if they saw. I wouldn't say, though.

[Dan Le Batard]

Tell me more positively, is Leela your grandmother's?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, my grandmother. Yeah, Leela. We call her Madea. She was, like, I would say for me, the epitome of love. Just like the backstop of care and wanting to see. All she wanted to see was she wanted you to be clean cut, honorable, respectful, humble, and treat people kind. And she was funny. I think that's where I get my sense of humor from and my wittiness, you know what I mean? She was all about the church. You know, we had to stay in church. We had to go to church. And funny enough, she was never into sports. Never. When I into basketball, she used to be like, boy, you in that damn ball. You play that ball too much. You know what I mean? Like, you better get your education. You better have something to fall back on. So that was her. That was her thing with basketball. Like, yeah, like, whatever it is you think you want to play there, you better get an education. You know what I mean? You don't want to be no dummy. That's what she used to call me. You don't want to be no dummy. But she was, like, the perfect person, man. I think when you think about, like, unconditional love, like, that's a grandmother's love, it's just so unconditional. Right. And, you know, she passed away, I would say, all the way to my last year in the league when I. Cleveland. My transition from Cleveland to New York. And the sad thing about that is she had dementia, and I didn't know what dementia was when she had it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, so at the end, you're not recognizing. You don't have a diagnosis.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. You don't. Like, in the hood, you know what I mean? Or on this part of the movie, they don't, like. They may say dementia. But you, like. You're not. You don't know what the fuck that means. We like, oh, she going crazy. Oh, you know, she just repeat herself. Like, in our community, we kind of like. It's kind of like a nonchalant approach of, oh, you know, granny gone crazy. She just be talking shit. Don't pay attention to her or, you know, she's tired or she'll just repeat herself. But, like, the dementia, I didn't know what it was. And so I. I started getting frustrated with my grandmother and getting frustrated Going to see my grandmother. And that was like, my only place of peace and refuge. And I always say I, like, never had a chance to have the last conversation with her. And so that's when I learned what the word dementia was. Then I was able to forgive myself again for my ignorance. Right? And then also, like, you're sitting in this weird space where it's like, damn, like, I could have maybe done something to help, you know what I mean? But there was nothing I can do to help. So, like, I have to be at peace now that I understand. You know what I mean? Now that I understand.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, it's nice that. So what you're saying is in the stages of grief, you have gone through the guilt and forgiven yourself so that the guilt is no longer there for you. Because I was ignorant. I just didn't know. How could I know? But in remembering her in the most positive ways that you remember her with, what you're saying is an unconditional love, she was giving you discipline. There was discipline there. There was safety there. How about belief?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. Like, you can do and be whoever you wanted to be. As long as you clean up, clean cut, make good grades, don't get in no trouble. That was it. That's all she cared about. Do not get. Be a good human being. Be God fearing, right? Treat people right. Treat people with respect. You can be whatever you like. You can do whatever you want for a job.

[Dan Le Batard]

And then a friend dies at the bus stop and she sends you to a private school. How was that possible? It's your basketball skill that's making that possible in Santa Monica, right?

[Baron Davis]

No, it was my AAU coach. My AAU coach literally was like, hey, man, you know this dude? Like, this dude live in South Central. He's probably the only kid on the team, like, that is in this situation. Like, he would be cool to, like, be a proof of concept at a school. Like a crossroads and you fit in.

[Dan Le Batard]

Or was there a culture shock?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, it was culture shock.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, there must be, right?

[Baron Davis]

Both sides.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I'm sure. But also, okay, this is a totally different world. And there are opportunities here that weren't available to me before, man.

[Baron Davis]

It was white people. That's all I saw when I first got there. You gotta think I only know white people from police. Maybe the grocery store on tv. Like, I, you know, or we played basketball and we had, like, one year we had a white person on our team. You know what I mean? But it was like, white people were rivals. And then I get to Crossroads and I realized like, oh, not everybody here is white. What do you mean? You know, white. What are you. Oh, I'm Jewish. What the fuck do that mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, you're just learning a whole new.

[Baron Davis]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm Korean. What do you mean? I thought everybody was Chinese.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, you're just learning.

[Baron Davis]

You don't have.

[Dan Le Batard]

You didn't realize how small your world was.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, my God. I knew nothing. You know what I mean? I knew nothing about people. I knew nothing about, like, at Crossroads. It was almost like my first year. I could have got kicked out once a week for either. Saying some shit I wasn't supposed to do, drawing some shit I had no idea what I was drawing. You know what I mean? And so it was more.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're just ignorant. You haven't given.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, I was completely ignorant to, like, everybody else. Right, but why.

[Dan Le Batard]

If you're. If you're living in a gated. It's not a gated. I wouldn't call it a gated community. But you're saying it's a gated. That you don't. There's nothing outside those walls for you. And furthermore, if not for. I mean, many people never get outside those gates. If not for grandma and basketball and AAU coach and everything else, the odds are you never get beyond those gates.

[Baron Davis]

Totally, dude. And, like, your ignorance is just, like, they looking at you like, you know, they struggle with me. Like, I would say, like, the first year, because they'd never had someone like me. But it was like a. It was a great experience because every moment was like, oh, you meant this. You mean here?

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, oh, it's all learning.

[Baron Davis]

I was getting fixed. It's all learning. You know what I mean? Like, I was getting learned, right? And at the same time, they had to learn me because I was not like any kid at that school. I was the one kid that didn't have anything. So, like, even if you suspended me for the day and sent me home, I live in South Central. Ain't nobody coming to pick me up. So, you know, when I get suspended at school, guess where I be at. I don't care.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're still in school. Like, you're just wandering around.

[Baron Davis]

I get suspended. I'm like, all right, cool. And then the principal gotta walk around the campus. I slide out of his office. I be sitting on the, you know, little stool.

[Dan Le Batard]

I ain't got nowhere to go.

[Baron Davis]

And people were like, we thought you were suspended. I was like, I am. Like, I'm just waiting for my ride. And my ride didn't come till 5 o'clock every day. It was frustrating. Dude, shout out to Tom Nolan. Morgan Swartz. They used to suspend me. And I be sitting in their office like this. I'm gonna call your grandmother. I'm gonna call her.

[Dan Le Batard]

But suspended. I mean, I don't wanna say you're feral, but suspended. Because you're arriving, you haven't had very much. There's some church, there's some grandma, but you haven't, like, social norms.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, I don't know. I was. I was just. I was just an aggressive kid. You know what I mean? I was aggressive. And I love to play. I love football. I would love to fight, you know? Like, I just didn't. I didn't know. Like, when I remember I was trying to fight somebody and the dude was like, man, I'm not trying to fight you. We need to talk about this. I'm like, talk. Like, talk. Are you crazy? Like, can you believe this dude wanted to talk to me? And everybody around the circle was like, yeah, you should talk. I'm like, what?

[Dan Le Batard]

So the problem solving is we fight. We fight. If we disagree, we fight.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. We don't even. Ain't no negotiation. And it's like, you know, it's like somebody gonna get socked first. It's like, you gotta get the first sock in. And then at crossroads, they're like, hold on, dude, like, you upset? Let's talk about it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Let's talk about your.

[Baron Davis]

What you mean, let's talk about it, dude? It's like, dude, like, what did I do wrong that's bothering you? And you get to a point, you're like, I don't fucking know, dude. I just wanna beat your ass. And everybody around is like, well, why do you wanna do that? That makes no sense. He didn't really do it. And then you watch like, damn, dude. Like, all right, well, ain't nobody at the school fighting. I guess I gotta start talking about my problems. It was. I give you a funny one, I'll give you a good one. So we had, like, peer counseling. It was called Life Skills. I was in seventh grade. I feel like Kate Hudson was in my class, too. So we would pass around and everybody go, you know, talk about, oh, you know, my mom. And, like, these kids were deep. Like, my mom and dad going through this, my parents going through a divorce, talking peace get to me. I'm like, what the fuck am I gonna say? I say, you know what? I'm open up to you guys. You know, I used to have a twin, and we were Playing basketball at the park. And it was a drive by shooting, and they shot my twin. Killed him. So I'm playing for two people, and after the class, dude, it got out on school. They was like, oh, Baron could have had a twin. We could have had two people. Kate Hudson walks up like, you don't have no fucking twin. Stop telling people you got a twin. I'm like, I didn't know. And then I told people I had a kid when I was 13. And here she comes again. Yeah, I know kids, stop telling people. You stop lying. Like, tell them the truth. But people thought I had a kid at 13 at Crossroads. They thought I had a twin. I was just making shit up.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, you do that with the media. Sometimes I think you get bored in these because they're asking you the same question, and next thing you're doing is talking about, yeah, I was abducted by aliens.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, my God, the alien thing, that was crazy. I just made the story up. I made the story up and the dude clipped it. And that's the only thing he put out on the pod. It was a good podcast. And he was just like, what happened? I was like, man, I don't know. I was driving from Vegas. You know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Just your imagination.

[Baron Davis]

I was just like, yeah, you're just bored. I was super bored. And then next thing you know, I'm on the fucking New York Post and like, everybody's like, oh. Like. And then I'm seeing people like, yo, you saw aliens? Yeah, let's talk about it.

[Dan Le Batard]

You didn't think of the consequences of what you were luring into your life.

[Baron Davis]

People from high school. I had a buddy from high school call me, and he was like, man, I want to catch up with you. Da, da, da, da. I'm like, man, let's catch up. We go to lunch and we catching up, and he talking about his business, what I'm doing. And I'm thinking like, damn, dude, this dude gonna invest with me. Invest in a company, you know, invest in my movie. And he goes, all right. Last thing you know, that thing I saw something. I said, man, I ain't seen no fucking aliens, yo. See the fucking. I was not abducted by an alien, yo. I was not abducted by an alien.

[Dan Le Batard]

He was like, you're denying it now? He's like, ah, yeah, you gotta hide it. You still duck.

[Baron Davis]

I was like, bro, if there are.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, shit, yeah, understood.

[Baron Davis]

I mean, if it was true, I'd give you the real.

[Dan Le Batard]

But you were just bored. You were just bored. Look, I've got experience with you being bored during interviews. Like I know what you do when you're bored during interviews. But your high school team was great because of you, correct?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, we were good my senior year. We were really good our junior year. We were good my senior year. We were really good. Just cause we were underdogs. We had a really good underdog mentality. We were well coached. You underestimated all of my teammates and they were really good. And so we're defensively, we were scrappy. And then we had guys, Felipe Williams, Chad Gordon, Laquan Tolbert. All these dudes could play and make plays, you know, and score. E.J. harris, Cash Warren was on that team. Jake Hoffman was on that team. Dustin Hoffman's son. So Dustin Hoffman, Denzel, imagine. No, but this is crazy. Dustin Hoffman, Denzel, UCLA basketball team, all these directors, producers. Like that shit was like rockstar. My senior year was crazy. People always, Kate Hudson and I are same class, okay? We graduated the same class. So that's my homegirl, one of my besties.

[D]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Did you have other options that you were seriously considering out of high school other than ucla?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, I was gonna go to Duke. I was gonna go to Duke. I was all set on Duke. I was big on Duke. I liked the way they played. I thought like, if I go to acc, you know what I mean? Like, ooh, just like the way they flow, how they play defense. And then like I got started getting recruited by Duke and then Coach K, mom, his mom started getting sick and then, and you know, this is the first time I gotta leave home. So I'm thinking like, all right, if I go to Duke I'm out of la. I'm out of all the, like, melee. But I gotta leave my grandma. I don't know, you know what I mean? I don't know if that is the right thing now. If I go to Duke, I'm going to wind up being one of the best players ever at Duke, you know what I mean? Just because of my talent, the way they play, the kind of talent that they had around, like, that would have, that would have taken me into strictly basketball, all basketball. Be the greatest player you can ever be. And everybody else was here to like, help, you know what I mean? Or stay home, take care of granny. There's a whole new generation of LA basketball players that have been coming to your games in high school, that's playing in middle school and elementary. I was like, man, I'm staying home with my homeboys. I wanna raise my young wolves up. I want them to see, I want them to still be able to go. If I fuck around and go to Duke, they gonna stop giving tickets to all these kids that I was giving tickets to their parents when I'm a primetime recruit. So I, I just thought about all that. And then when Coach K mom got sick, I think he missed a visit and it just like really sat with me. I was like, damn, dude, I felt, I felt for him. And I was so like, Coach K and I were connected too. I started to feel the same thing about my grandma. And I think Coach K held that against me. He wrote about it in the book. I was like the hardest recruit. But I don't think that, that he understood that, like, we were more connected than we weren't, you know what I mean? And so like, I always felt for him in that situation, but like, I did want to go to Duke, Like, I ain't gonna even lie. But I decided to go to UCLA based on like, all right, I'm here in la, alright, here's what I have to do. Take care of my grandmother, raise the next generation, be here. Like, you know, you have to make these little. So you gotta sign a contract.

[Dan Le Batard]

Not so little, though. Those things aren't little. Like the ideas, staying home and all of those things you just mentioned and the connection to love that you didn't want to be on the other side of the country away from like, Duke.

[Baron Davis]

Would have been the selfish move.

[Dan Le Batard]

But you don't regret it, right?

[Baron Davis]

I mean, you think about it, it's like, damn, dude, if I would have wound up at Duke, I would have got all the pub, all the hype, you know? National stage right at the time. Nah, I don't regret it. Got Earl Watson, dawg. That's my dog. Like, shit, you never find an Earl Watson in your life, you know what I mean? Rico Hines, that's my dog, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Friends for life.

[Baron Davis]

You meant that way. Yeah. Barnes, you know, you got Todd Ramazar, he a agent in the space now, you know, but, like, you ain't gonna never find no Earl Watson. So, shit, Earl Watson trump all the Duke, you know what I mean? Like, just my experience with him and LA and the next Kizzy. Now you see Farmar and Jrue Holiday and Russ and all these dudes starting to come to ucla. It's like, oh, we back, baby. You know what I mean? Lonzo Ball.

[Dan Le Batard]

We built something. We built something in my city. In my city.

[Baron Davis]

We held it down in like. Like, these dudes just keep upping the levels. And so I get to be a fan of them. I get to say, I went to the same college and played point guard. Same as Jew Holiday, same as Russell Westbrook, same as Lonzo Ball, Darren Collison, Jordan Farmar, you know what I mean? Aaron Holiday, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

And you started it and you were at the forefront.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, I was on the. Yeah, I was like one of. I was the transitional dude, right, because nobody was. You know, we had come off a national championship and UCLA was still trying to recruit on a national level, and I was local, so it all worked out.

[Dan Le Batard]

Your freshman year, you dunk, you blow out your knee. And I don't know if that is the first time, but you then, over the course of your career, have an assortment of injuries that is your body betraying you. You want to go through them, because it's a lot of them.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, my body, I would say once I hurt my knee, it was kind of like, damn. Like, I never had basketball. I never was. Like, the one thing I had every day is I can go play basketball. Once I got hurt like that. The only other time I got hurt before I was in high school, I broke my ankle and I told the homies, I want to start gang banging. You know what I mean? Cause I was bored, couldn't go play ball. I was like, yo, let's. I want to, like, put me on. I want to be, you know, I want to be on the. So, like at ucla, when I got hurt, it was just like, damn, I'm in college. Like, I just became a total fuck up. I would say that's the first time I gave up. I gained like 40 pounds. I was like, 253. And I'll never forget my college coach, Steve Spencer. He came to my apartment, he was like, man, you over here. Like, you know. Cause in college I was cool, you know, I had some bread, I had nice cars, more than one. But it was, you know, all my own hustle. No illegal shit, Just, you know, no NCAA illegal shit, just all my hustle. And he came to me, he was like, bro, you fucking lazy. You privileged. You entitled. You was just hitting me up with all this shit. Was like, wait, hold on. Like, I am kind of like at school living like a D boy, you know what I mean? And I'm not. You know what I'm saying? And so at that moment, it was like 5:00 in the morning. I couldn't swim, right? And so he'd make me go to the pool. And because I couldn't swim, I couldn't tread water and I couldn't swim laps. So the workouts were like impossibly hard. Cause it was just like falling down, getting up. And so I had to learn how to swim, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

Because you can't have. Yeah, you can't have tension on the ligaments and stuff.

[Baron Davis]

And that was the only way I could get in shape. So because I was like a bad swimmer, I got in shape faster. Cause I was like doing all the shit I wasn't supposed to, getting super tired. And I started working my way back. And then I came back my sophomore year.

[Dan Le Batard]

And you go to college, so you go in your sophomore year, after your sophomore year, you declare. Are you in any way ready for everything that comes with that? With you are now a professional at. Are you even 20 yet? Are you?

[Baron Davis]

No, I'm 19 still.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're so. You're so. You're an adult in some ways, but not an adult in the ways.

[Baron Davis]

No, not in the world. No, not at all. You know, shout out to Arntel and Bob Myers. They were my agents. I think I had a good, good. I had good agents, you know what I mean? And Arn build a good family environment. And so when I turned pro, I would hang out at Oren's office every day or go to my workouts, go to office, go to my workouts, go to apartment. But I would spend my day just hanging out in the office. Cause I had nothing to do. And so they would let me listen in on phone conversations. Arn would be negotiating.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, so this is where your business interests start. Because now you are super interested.

[Baron Davis]

I'm into it.

[Dan Le Batard]

You. You are somebody who cares about financial acumen. And this is where it's starting.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah. And I wanted to know, like, what was, you know, I was just curious what's so and so. Making what's so and so. Making what my contract look like versus Tracy McGrady versus Kobe. What's in his contract that's not in my contract. And so, you know, Bob Myers would let me, like, read contracts or, like, you know, they would ask me for, like, you know, different stuff. Like, what'd you learn from that? You know? Or ARM would let me sit in on baseball negotiations sometimes. He let me sit in on my Nike negotiation for my shoe deal. Oh.

[Dan Le Batard]

And there's like. So now there's just light spilling into the room on you on possibility. Like, wait a minute, I got money. Yeah.

[Baron Davis]

You know what I mean? Like, this looks cool. I want to be an agent. You know what I mean? Like, agents are cool. You know what I mean? They having the right conversations. They know all this stuff. Like, this is some shit that I can get down outside of. Like, I wanna make movies. And they keep telling me, no, you can't make movies. No, you can't be an actor. No, you can't. Like, why can't I? I wanna make movies. No, you can't do that. You're gonna go broke. It's like, well, I wanna be an actor. No, you can't do that. No, athletes are, you know, it's like cameo roles. So that was like. The other alternative was looking at Arn and just really studying from him. Bob. So I would say my first three years of the league was one of the best internships because I had another safe space and work environment like school. And then on hoop, all I had to do was hoop at that point. You know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

See, that's not even what I was asking you, because I'm assuming you're not ready for the social parts of it. You're not ready for, all of a sudden, so many people who want to be in your life. You haven't learned the skills of who you should trust, who shouldn't you trust. All manner of temptation is coming your way on people who don't actually know you, but feel like they do. So that's what I was talking about, you not being ready.

[Baron Davis]

I went to Charlotte, so Charlotte was the Bible bell. So I met great people, you know, I met great people, met people who are family. But to your point, on the other side, it's like I spent all my time here in the gym, and I tried to spend very little time being social or. Or Letting people have access to me in the first. I would say the first two or three years, because anytime some shit happened, it was still the same drama. My mama and daddy still on drugs. You know what I mean? My family. And, you know, my granny is still getting older, right? There's still, like, violence in the hood. There's still, like, all of, like, my world is not, like, left behind. This whole shit comes with me, you know what I mean? And it. And it. Just because of who I am, everything else grows around it.

[Dan Le Batard]

So basketball is still the escape everywhere. All of the shit. All of this shit is always around you since childhood. And you don't escape it by going to Charlotte, like, any. And you wouldn't have escaped it going to Duke.

[Baron Davis]

Going to Duke. Yeah, that was. And that's what I started learning in Charlotte was like, yo, like, these problems are worse now. You know what I mean? And I can't get away from them, so.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, now everybody needs money right now. You're the one. You're the economy.

[Baron Davis]

I am everybody's last. Look, let me tell you something, Dan. You know, I wouldn't even come at you like this, but you are my last resort. That is the conversation.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah.

[Baron Davis]

Your best friend can call you. Oh, what's up, Dan? What's happening, man? Man, you have an hour conversation. Call back the next day. Like, man, you know, I really called you yesterday to you my last resort, bro. I need, like, $1,500. I need like $700. I need, like, $3,500 to. Can you bail someone out at 3,500? I need a lawyer. I need this. Da, da, da, da. Like, Nobody's asking for $100,000, but 100 or a thousand people are asking for $510, $12, you know what I mean? And it's not, you know, I learned it's not now I learned it's not they fault, just people, like, they're bold to ask, but you struggle with that. No.

[Dan Le Batard]

When you're young, but it's not even bold to ask. They're also coming from, like, there is real desperation there. Like, if they're calling you for. For $1,000, I don't even know how close you are to these people. But I'm guessing at the beginning that doesn't cost. But that didn't cost you much. But when you're noticing that it's everything start adding up.

[Baron Davis]

And it's not. Not that the money add up, it's the ass start adding up the stories start adding the emotional drain, the emotional Drain starting adding. Then when you are. Then like, are you making the right decision giving that person $4,000? When this person asks for $1,000 and said they'll pay you back, you know what I mean? And now it's like, I already gave the money. I don't want to give them more money. But this person was probably the person who needed it. And the person that's gonna go on, you know what I mean? This person is gonna burn that bridge all because it felt good about, like, that's the homie. That's somebody like, that you had a. Felt like you had a stronger connection to in your past. So you make a lot of mistakes. Saying yes to people. And so no was like the hardest thing. Because if you told somebody no, they would really tell you how they feel.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, this is the thing. All of your relationships start changing there. And you start seeing things perhaps you didn't want to see that are a circumstance around.

[Baron Davis]

Imagine telling your mama no. And you have to. You have to.

[Dan Le Batard]

And it's real desperation. Like, if she's asking, it's. If she's asking, it is last resort stuff because she's already embarrassed you plenty and she doesn't want no, I don't.

[Baron Davis]

Know, I can't do it. Then who am I? Like, I am, you know, I'm an enabler to everything that you want to do. And so for me, it was like, oh, hell no, I ain't doing that, mama. Like, I call my mom, my dad, be like, what I used to yell at him, be like, what the fuck? I'm in the NBA. Clean your shit up. Like, God damn. Like, if I had a son like me, I'd be trying to get right because it's cool over here. You know what I mean? And so it's like, it was that. It was that struggle. And so when you tell your mama no, man, it's hard. Cause like, you didn't ask me for a house. But I can't get you a house. You got these people with you, you know what I mean? I can't get you nothing. Cause you got this dude with, I can't. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah. And then when I go to do it, like, I'm really trying to do it and help, and it's just like. It's a tug and pull.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you remember what she said when you said no? Like what? Like that in just hearing your mama.

[Baron Davis]

Got a bad mouth. I don't even think she remembered. But I remember everything, you know what I mean? It was just like, you get cussed out, you get cussed out, you get told like you don't care. You get called names. But, I mean, that's just the nature, you know, that's just the nature of. That's the consequences are what come with saying no. You gotta know when you say no, nobody gonna be like, all right, you're right.

[Dan Le Batard]

How did you get good at no where, where, when? Like, I imagine.

[Baron Davis]

I ain't never got good at no. I just start avoiding people. I think you gotta get to it. Yeah. I just think I would say my. My mom finally got right when I was like 28, 29, like my ninth or 10th year in the league. And so that was like, I would say after that, it was. It kind of became like a little bit.

[Dan Le Batard]

If you can say no to her, you can say no to anybody.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, pretty much. But, like, my mom was never really, like, in my life like that. So it wasn't like saying no to her was like. I knew what that was, you know what I mean? But it was also like going back to the person for the 4,000, person with the 1,000. Now you got 500, you got 200, you got $5, you got $10, you know, and now you got all these people, and each one of them has a story. The dude who needs $50 may have the greatest story ever. And he just wanted a burger. But you tired. You're like, man, I ain't buying you shit. And it could have been like your old coach. And you just like, you're like, damn, dude. Like, you know, you see an old coach, I'm like, man, you should at least buy me a burger. And it's like, man, buy you what? And it's all because you've had all of these little micro ask and micro stories. And so it just kind of like, it's. It's still this world, you know what I mean? It's just now you're in the world where you got money, nobody understands you, nobody cares to get to know you. Right. They only see and hear and, like, you can imagine how frustrating.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're an atm, you're an atmosphere.

[Baron Davis]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

How did you get to repair with your mother?

[Baron Davis]

Yeah, me and my mom, great. We great now. We talk every morning. She's been sober. She lives in Baton Rouge. I mean, we got a great relationship. Like, I would say, you know, in my NBA career, when I look up and say, damn, I may not make the hall of Fame, you know what I mean? I don't have a championship. I played 13 great years. And at the end of the day, like, I'm sitting here, I got a relationship with my mama. You know what I mean? Like, shit, it took this long. But like, me and my mom, we rock. You know what I mean? And we talk and, you know, it's like, so all the things that I'm starting to learn, you know, about my dad, that I'm learning about me and like, you know, my mom is just, she's, she's great, she's fun, she's funny, you know, she got great personality and it's, and you know, it was worth the wait.

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[Dan Le Batard]

We've talked very little about the professional basketball part of your story, which is ostensibly the thing that probably people care about the most. But before we go through some of that, can you take me through the injuries? Because when you said could have been to the hall of fame and when I say at the beginning, two time all star is interesting, but this was a talent that I recognized. Like when Dwyane Wade beat you in the playoffs, I'm like, oh, okay, Dwayne Wade's gonna be something that's an all timer. Because I know what's happening. I know what this is here. And, but, but your body and I don't know how this starts, right. Whether you hurt Your ankle in high school, and then you break or you tear up your knee in college. And then other compensations happen, no matter how healthy you are. And little pieces of you start physically falling apart, no matter how careful you are. Take me through all of the injuries, because there are a lot of them.

[Baron Davis]

All right? I broke my ankle when I was in ninth grade. And then I came back playing, like, a week out of a cast because I wanted to get recruited. Roy Williams thought I was handicapped when he came and recruited me four years later. That was a funny story. So I broke my ankle. I didn't let my ankle heal. So I just. Because I needed. Like, I needed to play. So I played literally a week out of getting out of surgery. Then I wind up at ucla, tearing my acl. After I tear my acl, I get to the league. I'm okay. My rookie year, I have loose cartilage in my knee. But, I mean, you know, when you growing up back in that era, you don't really, like, you ain't trying to sit on the training table. You know what I mean? Like, take shots and get out there. None of that shit. And so I remember my first year, my second year, I would have, like, this, what they would call, like, a floating piece of cartilage in your knee. And so I would run, and the cartilage would get in the joint. And I'd have to jump and shake my leg on the court so I could mobilize it. Then I had a small little surgery then for that. Then I hurt my back the next year. That really kind of fucked everything up. Like, I had herniated L4, L5 dis. And then that was the year we played Tracy McGrady. I got Max contract, but, like, my back was, like, crushed. Then I had to go play in, like, the Olympics. Not the Olympics, but the Goodwill, whatever, World Championships. Like that disaster team that they always clown. I was on that team, but I was also hurt. Cause I had fucked my back up. But I just never told people. I was just trying to, like, all right, I can get this right before training camp. So I would say, for me, it was always like. I never was 100%. Ever. You know? I don't even think I was even, ever. 90%, probably.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're always playing with some sort of pain, some sort of compensation.

[Baron Davis]

Because that was my lockdown. You know what I mean? That was literally my life. So when I got injured, it was almost like, now they can have my attention. Cause I don't have nowhere to go. You know what I Mean. And so I would rush back to play, like, soon as I can, I remember. And I'm sure coaches and teammates would tell you, like, there was a lot of times that I was not supposed to be playing, that I just like, yo, if I can walk and I can barely move, I'll be able to go out there and play. And I never thought about, like, it was just kamikaze, you know what I mean? It's like, fuck it, ride or die. And then as you get older, you start looking at, like, gotta take better care of your body. But my body was like, you know what I mean? And I remember being with the Knicks, shout out to Andy Barr and the trainers and Dr. Callahan, Dr. Ainsworth Allen. They did my last surgery with the Knicks. But, like, when I signed with the Knicks, I couldn't even walk. I could not walk. Dr. Callahan was like, you may not even play again, let alone, like, you may not be able to walk straight, because I just hurt my back. I was playing. Somebody hit me, my back went out and I couldn't walk. And she was like, if you work hard, I'll take a chance. We'll take a chance on you, but we don't think that you're gonna be able to play this year, you know? But, like, we'll get you right, and we'll work with you, like, if you can. And it was a lockout year. I was back in a month and a half.

[Dan Le Batard]

You've got an unusual pain threshold, I would imagine, right?

[Baron Davis]

I mean, yeah, dude, I've been through so much pain that if I can get back on the court or anytime I walk in the gym, that's like. That's my sanctuary, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Roy Williams thought you were handicapped, though.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, Roy Williams thought I was handicapped. He was recruiting Paul Pierce, and that was the week I was out of my cast. So I was ninth grade, but I wasn't. I was, like, on the end of the bench and I was playing. I had a broke ankle, so the coach would only put me in, like, in garbage time. And I just, you know, move like that. And Roy Williams was recruiting me in front of my grandma. And he was like, man, you know, I got Paul. He was like, I always wondered what happened to the kid. I think he was like the coach's son. I was like, coach's son. That was coach. He was like, man, little dude, handicapped. You know what I mean? Like, handicapped. Like, who the fuck on our team was handicapped? He was like, man, little dude. Like, he looked like. He looked like he was the coach, son, because he could play and the coach played, you know, but he would like throw him in there. But the kid just couldn't keep up. But he could play. But he just, he was like, there's something wrong with his leg. He had a, you know, like, I was like, coach, that was me. He was like, man, no way, get out of here. I was like, yeah, that was me basically my ninth grade year trying to, trying to get on.

[Dan Le Batard]

I really appreciate throughout all of this the intimacy and the vulnerability. Over the course of the years, I have at various times tried to ask you some form in short interviews where you're not in a totally trusting place about the Clipper experience, at least in part, because I thought to myself, my God, that could have been and should have been for him, such a beautiful story. Yeah, that seems from afar like he expected one thing and it was the complete opposite.

[Baron Davis]

It was like, get out of that thing.

[Dan Le Batard]

So basically, get out, you're being heck by the owner in the stands and that person turns out to be very publicly a racist. There are all sorts of reported stories about him bringing people into the locker room and looking at showering basketball players and talking about their beautiful black bodies. You have never shared any of these stories with me because they've. Because you know, they're going to get aggregated and you know, it's going to be a whole thing.

[Baron Davis]

Well, the thing is like the people who are telling the stories, right, are doing it for a whack ass TV show, you know what I mean? A whack ass documentary. And, you know, I'm a storyteller, so I know who was there, you know what I mean? You know, no disrespect to Ramona Cherbourne, but she wasn't even a fat. Like, she was a rookie when I got there. And so I look at that and I look at people and say, oh, y'all just gonna take this story and run how y'all wanna run. Oh, y'all other athletes, Y'all gonna take this story and wave a black power fist on man. I'm not with none of that, you know what I mean? Because what I had to do was I had to understand this man, right, to be able to articulate what type of person he was, what type of business he ran and all the people who worked for him, right? And what they had to do, right? Whether they wanted to or not, he's the boss. Yeah. And wherever their moral compass was, they was fucked too. So there's a lot of fuckery going on, right? And so when you have somebody, and I have to make sure that people know. Donald Sterling is not a racist. He is a hate. Everybody is. He don't give a shit. He don't understand. He don't understand blacks, Latinos, Asians, white people. He don't understand shit. He's delusional. And so whatever he says to you is like whatever the fuck he's thinking. And he is beyond ignorant, right? And so when you have that much money and you use the team as your scapegoat, if you use the team as a media play for your other business, like he wasn't a basketball fan. Basketball was just a real estate holding, right, that he probably didn't even like, but he knew it gave him fame and notoriety and shit like that. I would have to walk into the Clipper practice site and see the person in community relationship bawling her eyes out. Now I gotta go to work just like she at work. But I gotta stop going into the gym, getting my shit together to make sure, like, hey man, don't worry about it, you know what I mean? He ain't gonna do nothing, you know? Like I became now like the only person who cared about other people. Because I saw with the Clippers there was no care. Everybody was there telling on each other, snitching on each other, backstabbing people. And the people who were actually honest and working and hard working, that were scared and terrified, they had nowhere to go. You know what I mean? They had nowhere to go.

[Dan Le Batard]

And people need a paycheck.

[Baron Davis]

Other job. Coming from the Clippers. Back then, ain't nobody hiring no motherfuckers from the Clippers. So like, you are at the bottom of the bottom and the worst environment. And you worked for him. It didn't matter what the team. The team was just a tool. The players were just tools, right? They were never to be understood by him. And so when you have people like Ramona, you know, or other.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, not, not just that, because they were at the center before George Floyd. There's all sorts of stuff being moved around politically on black white causes. Doc Rivers has to decide whether to boycott a game.

[Baron Davis]

Oh, man, that's bullshit, man, that's bullshit. That's bullshit.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know the reason why I.

[Baron Davis]

Went in the locker. I went to that game. I literally went to that game because I wanted to see what they were gonna do, you know what I mean? And. And when you look at that squad, none of them dudes was playing like all of a sudden, oh, you hella woke. Because the Media say you gotta be woke now. Y'all gotta, like, if you was that woke, if you cared that much, if you was standing up to racism, if you wanted to make a statement, why the fuck didn't you not play that game? Suckers. Hey. What? It's weak. It was weak. Everybody in the league was ready to shut down for you. And what y'all do? Y'all turn y'all jerseys over, ran out there, got y'all ass whooped, and asked for people to feel sorry for you. And then here, you know, and then Doc standing out like, you know, like he a black figure. You know what I'm saying? So, like, for me, that's why I don't like talking about it. Because I start. Start picking apart, like, all the pieces and saying, like, the reason why I don't say nothing, because I got a lot to say, and I know what the fuck I gotta say, right? And then everybody else are opportunists in this situation. So when opportunists are minor, I get out of that.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've noticed that with you, and I want to give you the space and context on all of it. But what if I were to push back with saying to you, look, basketball players for the Clippers also had to live in the same world that you experienced of. We're all employees of this lunatic.

[Baron Davis]

That's not true. That's not true. That's not. Because, remember, I went to work every day. My problem, right, with all the other players was they didn't give a fuck. You know what I mean? And I could not for the life of me figure out. But that's why, like. Well, when we had the Lob City stuff, when we started that with Blake and DeAndre, when Blake got there, it was different. Cause Blake was different. You know, he was the number one pick. Him and DeAndre were like, like, on their way up. And Blake didn't give a fuck about none of it. And so I was, like, finally starting to see, like, hold on. These young kids, they just hooping. I come from an era where, like, I had to deal with owners and deal with all this shit, and, like, I'm seeing everything. They just seeing the gym. You know what I mean? And so it became, like, I started to realize, like, damn, dude, these young dudes, like, I need to be more like them. I need to care less. I care too much, right? Because I really wanted, like, I really felt like, yo, three, by the time I get three years with the Clippers, like, we will be where the warriors is, where the Warriors Are right.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was your expectation.

[Baron Davis]

That was my expectation going in.

[Dan Le Batard]

I wanted to.

[Baron Davis]

Don Levy was the coach, so that didn't work out well. Lord have mercy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hold on. We'll get back to this stuff for a second. But how is it that you could be so wrong Signing, thinking that the Clippers were gonna be one thing? And is it ego? Is it because you thought you were good enough to be able to be the change you wanted?

[Baron Davis]

Nah. You know, Elton Brand. I was supposed to go there with Elton Brand, and then he did some punk shit and like signed with Philly and didn't tell me that he was signing with Philly. So I had already signed with the Clippers. So I was like, fuck it, I'm going home. I had made my mind up anyway, but I did think that the Clippers had talent at the time. They hadn't. They were literally right there. So it was like if they were playing games, you know, it was like 8th, 9th, 10th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10TH. It was all kind of like us, the Clippers, Denver, Golden State, all these new teams were trying to fight for a position. So I figured Clippers have the talent. And with Elton Brand, you know, you already got a big dude. So I can just. These next four or five years, I can just play traditional point guard, shit, pass the ball. He can get double team, shoot threes and you know, so you go in thinking, I'm going thinking, like, oh man, I get to. We're going to carry the team. You know what I mean? I don't have to do all the. Like, I just play point guard. Like, I really just want to play point guard and like run off and shit. I don't want to do all this shit. That's why I went to the Clippers. Cause I felt like, all right, they got a big. They got two big dudes. They got Cutino Mobley, you know what I mean? Like, we got a cool. We got cool four right now. Tim Thomas, like, we had size and talent and dogs. We just had a coach. You know, once Elton Brandon didn't come, then everything just kind of fell out. Marcus Camby, we traded for Marcus Camby. Showed up to training camp first day and then don't show up for two weeks. He bout to retire. I gotta go find Marcus Camby, sit with him. He like, man, fuck this shit. Like, he. You know what I mean? Cause Denver traded him. So like, you know, it's just all the shit that people go through, you know what I mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

So right from the start, right from.

[Baron Davis]

The start, walk in and Play basketball. The very first day of media, the media guy comes up to me and say, look, he pulls me to the side. He said, I know you're having fun line. I'm just gonna let you know, when he comes in here, don't get upset. Don't get offended. He may or may not say something to you that'll offend you and like. Or he may say some shit. I'm like, what are you talking. This is media day. What are you talking about? He's talking to reporter. He's talking about the owner.

[Dan Le Batard]

So he didn't say Donald Sterling. He just said he, he, he might come in here.

[Baron Davis]

He might come in here and say the wildest shit to you. Be careful. Don't get upset. Y'all in a good mood, you know? Cause everybody would say, like, you know, when the season, like, before I got there, when the season started, man, you know, it's fucked up around here, you know, everybody has nothing but negative energy and negative shit to say.

[Dan Le Batard]

You didn't know any of this beforehand?

[Baron Davis]

I mean, I, no, not like that. Yeah, not like that. Like, all teams are dysfunctional.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know what I mean?

[Baron Davis]

I just came from the warriors, you know what I mean? When an owner, you know, he be riding a bike, when he hung over, you know what I mean? Like, everybody's got something. He was a hot mess. You know what I mean? But at the time, but not like this, this was like, with the warriors, like, okay, that's the owner. You know, you like him, you don't like him. It was a separation between what he does for the team versus what he do for this situation was like, you cannot detach nobody from nothing. Everybody's a spy. Everybody's lying to move up or to save their face. And then Mike Dunleavy has all the power, so he can literally say whatever the fuck he want to the owner or to anybody, right? About anybody. And so, like, when you have leadership like that, that. It's a circus. I, I, I remember in training camp, I was like, man, this is. I up. This is a circus. Like, I ain't never seen no shit like this. I would say that every day in practice. Like, y'all, I've never seen. I did not think that the NBA, like an NBA team could be ran like that.

[Dan Le Batard]

And you'd been some places at that point, you'd seen some.

[Baron Davis]

We had some bad years, you know, Like, I just come off a bad year with Byron Scott, where I got traded, you know, and the warriors was having a bad year, but, like, wasn't like, nothing was like this. This was like, man, Chris came in, we in practice, he grabbed a rope, lasso it around. What's the. What I wanted them dudes pull the shit. Just all kind people pulling each other, pants down, kicking water bottles over. It's like, man, this ain't no fun. That is a fucking circus, yo.

[Dan Le Batard]

What is the context that people would need, again, with the space to do it? Not worried about. Because I'm so appreciative that we've done this this way. And I hate for you, the entirety of your career. I have felt like the back and forth with journalists isn't stimulating enough to you. Isn't something that appeals to your greatest curiosities. What are the things that people need to know as someone who was in the fire of that. The context that they don't. When you say, that wasn't actually a race war, that was just a basketball team that was stuck under an owner that had an organization of profound dysfunction.

[Baron Davis]

Man, it was just extreme dysfunction. Like, it wasn't. It was just every day. It was dysfunctional. Like, you don't know. You don't know what the fuck you're doing when you go to work. You don't know if you got anything. Like, how do you go to the gym and not play basketball? Like, we wouldn't scrimmage. We would just talk, run through plays. It became like, the. Who the fuck wants to be here? This is like, now you talking about stress, ptsd. Imagine can't do what you want to do, how you want to do it. All they doing is just telling you what to do. It's like groundhog telling you what to do. And I felt sorry for the people. Like, you know, you think like, Jason Powell, he's still there, the head trainer. Like, this dude is brilliant. This dude is doing all that he can, right, to solve a problem because the players keep getting hurt and they keep telling him no, right? And so, like, I'm watching none of.

[Dan Le Batard]

The competent people have power to do anything crazy, undermined crazy.

[Baron Davis]

And so now you gotta be. You gotta like, everybody gotta be a little sneaky to get some shit done to benefit the players. You know what I mean? Or the players have to go and, like, come back, which you don't care. You gotta come back to the gym to get extra shots because you realize, man, I ain't got no shots in practice in three weeks. And so, like, the environment that was created made you not want to be in the gym. You just wanted to go to work. Soon as this shit was Over. You didn't want to see nobody. Like, you wanted to dis. Like, imagine being living as a basketball player and not wanting to disagree with, like, it was literally like, yo, this is a job that I hate. And when you go to work, like, your other teammates and homies, like, damn, man, what's wrong with you? You all right? Like, you don't look good. And then you playing the game, they're like, yo, what the fuck? Like, what's wrong with you and your homies and your friends here in LA who showing up to the games, they like, yo, we came to see BD play. And it's like, I ain't know how to play basketball. Baltimore, this motherfucker talking to me like, I can't.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's gotta be some joy around what you're doing.

[Baron Davis]

There's gotta be freedom. For me, it's gotta be freedom, artistic freedom, freedom creativity. And, like, I know what I'm doing out here. You know what I mean? I can't play.

[Dan Le Batard]

Support it. Don't undermine it.

[Baron Davis]

Support. Don't undermine. Then the next year, Vinnie Del Negro. And you gotta think the Clippers were going to have success because DeAndre Blake, your cornerstones, were getting better. You know what I mean? The younger guys were getting better. And then Vinnie the Snake. I call him Vinny the Snake. Cause he a lion, motherfucker. Oh, no, Vinnie the Snake, you know, he was. He was just positioning to keep his job so he could, like, he knew he had a good team and he could. They started bringing in the right people, like, once I left, but I was like, damn, dude, all we need. All I needed was one Chris Paul squad, like the Matt, Jamal, jj. Give me that team. Like who? I want a championship.

[Dan Le Batard]

We are out of time, unfortunately. We were just getting to some of the good basketball stuff. But I will do it.

[Baron Davis]

I'll come back, dude.

[Dan Le Batard]

We will do it again. And before you leave here, just tell the people what you want them to know about what it is that you're doing in tech. Because you're a business mover and shaker. You have a great deal of financial acumen and. And artistic interest. So tell the people where it is and how it is they can support.

[Baron Davis]

Some of what it is you're doing. TeamBig IO the company is called Business Inside the Game. So it's a platform. I talk about business, interview leaders, and we do mixers, summits, and we bring entrepreneurs and the right people together in the right space. So that's teambig IO and then blacksanta.com, you can support the brand. We have, you know, part of the proceeds go to various different charities and so we just trying to have our own Black Santa Claus and bring our community together.

[Dan Le Batard]

I will tell the audience, which is a very supportive financial audience, that blacksanta.com is a thing that you want to be supporting because he is very interested in helping people. So thank you for the candor. We finally did this one right.

[Baron Davis]

This was good.

[Dan Le Batard]

We finally did it correctly. It's nice seeing you again, buddy. You've been with me for 20 years.

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