South Beach Sessions - Frank Thomas

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: South Beach Sessions - Frank Thomas
Release Date: February 20, 2025
Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz
Guest: Frank Thomas

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, host Dan Le Batard welcomes baseball Hall of Famer Frank Thomas to South Beach Sessions at the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami. The conversation delves deep into Frank Thomas's illustrious career, personal life, challenges with the media, and his perspectives on professionalism and race within the sports industry.

Early Life and Influences

Frank Thomas begins by sharing his humble beginnings, emphasizing the pivotal role his family played in shaping his character and work ethic.

• Family Foundations:
  "It started with Charlie Mae... my mother, I was the baby of five kids... she just really made sure I was secure every day." [02:13]

• Neighborhood and Upbringing:
  "I grew up in a semi bad neighborhood, but not a real ghetto neighborhood... I wanted to stay out of trouble." [03:06]

• Parental Influence:
  Frank highlights the dual influence of his parents—his mother as a disciplinarian and his father, a deacon and bail bondsman, instilling both love and discipline.
  "My dad was the real, real strict disciplinarian. My mom took care of me, but if I ever stepped out of line, dad was quick to smack me back." [04:31]

Baseball Career Highlights

Frank Thomas offers an insightful overview of his baseball journey, focusing on his dedication to the sport and his exceptional performance.

• Commitment to Excellence:
  "I was obsessed. First guy there, last guy to leave." [38:40]
  His relentless work ethic was a cornerstone of his success, enabling him to achieve remarkable statistics and earn his Hall of Fame status.

• Career Milestones:
  Frank discusses hitting 500 home runs and becoming one of the few athletes with statues celebrating both his college and professional baseball excellence.

Challenges and Media Relations

A significant portion of the conversation addresses Frank's tumultuous relationship with the media, particularly during his tenure with the Chicago White Sox.

• Media Pressure:
  "When you're the biggest guy, they talk about David and Goliath all the time. I was Goliath and I was supposed to do those things." [12:42]

• Interactions with Columnists:
  He recounts confrontations with prominent sports columnists Jay Mariotti and Skip Bayless, emphasizing the lack of respect athletes often felt from critics who didn’t engage personally.
  "Jay never came to the clubhouse. Skip never came to the clubhouse... I wish he had spent more time having real conversation and doing interviews to get to know me." [17:05]

• Impact on Performance:
  The constant scrutiny and pressure were challenging, leading to periods of defiance and strain within his organization.
  "Once all that cleared the air, I was back being who I was. And that was tough on the organization." [25:50]

Personal Life and Family

Frank opens up about his family life, marriages, and dedication to being a good father.

• Fatherhood:
  "My biggest take is to be the best father you possibly can be. I've been that guy... I invite them to everything I do." [07:03]

• Marriages and Family Dynamics:
  He discusses the challenges of balancing his career with his personal life, including his first marriage ending during his peak baseball years.
  "I tell people my biggest take is to be the best father you possibly can be. I've been that guy." [07:03]

• Supporting Aging Parents:
  Frank shares heartfelt moments about his parents’ choices and his efforts to support them.
  "They loved the neighborhood we grew up in... They wanted to be here. If you want to do something, make this place better." [09:00]

Post-Career and Business Ventures

Transitioning from an athlete to an entrepreneur and broadcaster, Frank discusses his ventures and experiences after retiring from professional baseball.

• Endorsements and Campaigns:
  Frank highlights his successful partnerships, such as with Carvana and Genics, emphasizing his ability to market himself effectively.
  "Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience... I've been blessed." [37:29]

• Broadcasting Career:
  He reflects on his decade-long stint with Fox, the challenges faced, and his eventual departure.
  "Fox TV... it was time to release me. It was a gut punch... but life comes at you fast." [50:37]

Reflections on Race and Professionalism

Frank offers a nuanced perspective on race within sports, drawing from his unique experiences navigating predominantly white institutions and environments.

• Navigating Dual Worlds:
  "I went to an all white school, learn that education, but then go back to the ghetto and deal with both sides of the fence. I saw racism on both sides." [14:29]

• Personal Philosophy:
  "I love people for who they are... I've never been able to see color like the other people." [65:30]

• Professional Conduct:
  Frank emphasizes the importance of respect and professionalism, contrasting his approach with the often adversarial relationship athletes have with the media.
  "I always cared about being professional... I always wanted to be great." [27:03]

Overcoming Adversity and Work Ethic

The conversation delves into the physical and mental challenges Frank faced, including injuries and media pressure, and how his work ethic helped him persevere.

• Injuries and Resilience:
  "I was in a lot of pains. I played many hurt days on the baseball field." [47:34]
  Despite injuries, Frank maintained his commitment to the game, often playing through pain to support his team.

• Mental Fortitude:
  "If I can, the biggest guy on the team who's doing the most damage normally is playing hurt. Other guys can't complain about themselves being hurt." [47:56]
  His resilience and determination were pivotal in sustaining his performance over a long career.

Closing Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Frank reflects on his legacy, relationships within the sports world, and his current focus on mentoring his son.

• Legacy and Mentorship:
  "I've been a great father... I hope to be a great father for many, many years to come." [07:47]

• Future Endeavors:
  Frank emphasizes his continuous efforts to positively impact others, both through business and personal interactions.
  "I'm a talented man, you know, I know how to market myself... I love people and the fans have made me who I am." [48:12]

Notable Quotes

• On Family and Upbringing:
  "It all started at home with mom." [02:13]

• On Media Pressure:
  "I always would come out with vengeance." [67:34]

• On Professionalism:
  "I always cared about being professional. Always cared about the other man." [27:03]

• On Resilience:
  "Life's too short. I'm happy being a happy go lucky guy and loving people because I love people and people love you back when you love them." [63:43]

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive look into Frank Thomas's life, highlighting his dedication to excellence, the balancing act between personal and professional spheres, and his forward-thinking approach to challenges. Frank's candid reflections provide listeners with a deeper understanding of the man behind the statistics, emphasizing resilience, respect, and unwavering commitment to his passions.

Transcript

[Frank Thomas]

What is Dax?

[Dan Le Batard]

Are you tracking all our cars on Carvana Value Tracker on all our devices? Yes, Kristen. Yes, I am.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I've been looking for my phone for.

[Dan Le Batard]

In Dax's domain we see all. So we always know what our cars are worth.

[Frank Thomas]

All of them?

[Kristen]

All of them.

[Dan Le Batard]

Value surge trucks up 3.9%.

[Frank Thomas]

That's a great offer.

[Dan Le Batard]

I know.

[Frank Thomas]

Sell. Sell.

[Dan Le Batard]

Track your car's value with Carvana value tracker.

[Frank Thomas]

Today.

[Dan Le Batard]

Daredevil is born again on Disney plus.

[Frank Thomas]

Why did you stop being a vigilante?

[Dan Le Batard]

The line was crossed. Sometimes peace needs to be broken.

[Frank Thomas]

Chaos must reign.

[Dan Le Batard]

On March 4th, the nine episode event begins. I was raised to believe in grace. But I was also raised to believe in retribution. Marvel Television's Daredevil born again. Don't miss the two episode premiere March 4th only on Disney Plus. Hello and welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm excited about this guy. I've admired him for a long time. I've told him so for a number of different reasons. Two time AL mvp. He's a businessman now. He has been great as a broadcaster, but his, his baseball excellence makes him super unique. One of five athletes anywhere that has a statue at both his college baseball excellence and his professional baseball excellence. Frank, thank you so much for making the time for us.

[Frank Thomas]

It's a pleasure, Dan. Thanks for having me today.

[Dan Le Batard]

I want to know a little bit about who you are, how you are, the things that shaped you. Because I was always fascinated by the roots of how you became a. A baseball hall of Famer. That was that. Excellent. But also how you carried yourself professionally. It seemed from where I was standing, like it was hard to be you. And you always carried yourself with uncommon grace. So begin, if you don't mind, by telling me a little bit about Charlie Mae.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, it started with Charlie Mae. You know, I grew up in a small town, Columbus, Georgia. Much larger town now. But growing up my mother, I was the baby of five kids. So being the baby, she just really made sure I was secure every day. I didn't get caught up with what was going on out in the neighborhood and everything else. I always stayed around. I had good friends, but I never wanted to do what everybody else wanted to do. I was always focused. So for my mom, she made sure I stayed out of trouble. She made sure I was home on time. She made sure I did my homework. So it all started at home with mom. But as for growing up there and keeping everything, you know, under wraps but not falling in the same traps, cause I grew up in a semi bad neighborhood, but Not a real ghetto neighborhood. You know, I was. I wouldn't call it middle class, but I would put it somewhere in the middle of middle, lower class.

[Dan Le Batard]

A kid doesn't know that though, right?

[Frank Thomas]

You don't know that because the walks of life I came from, I mean, there were lower. Lower class. There were, you know, lower middle class and there was middle class. So for me growing up, I just wanted to stay out of trouble.

[Dan Le Batard]

She was how. As a disciplinarian, she was the youngest of 14 children.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes. So my mom knew a lot about family. You know, when you're talking about family gatherings, mother, aunts and uncles coming over, it was a huge clan. It was a lot of people, a lot of cousins, a lot of. We had a big family. So you learn a lot from those situations and learning about family.

[Dan Le Batard]

And she did what, other than your father, because your father was a deacon, a bail bondsman. That seems like a difficult job. An animal catcher.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know what that is exactly.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes, it was basically, you know, like dog catcher. You know, dog cats, you know, would keep him for control for the city. But his biggest job, I really feel, was at Georgia Crown, which was a big distributor of alcohol. He had a huge keg route that he would do for a lot of the bars and restaurants around town. So dad was a man of many talents, but he was very stubborn with me. You know, he was the real, real strict disciplinary. My mom took care of me, but if I ever stepped out of line, you know, dad was quick to smack me back.

[Dan Le Batard]

So what did that look like? Explain to me how this balance and this support at home, because I am hugely interested. What you did, Frank, was so difficult. I don't think people know how hard it was to be as excellent as you, to hit 500 home runs in the big leagues, to be the best in baseball for a good amount of time, and doing it clean while everyone around you was not doing it cle and going to talk to the Mitchell Report, being the only active player doing that.

[Frank Thomas]

This is important to me.

[Dan Le Batard]

But, Frank, you were doing naturally what others couldn't do on drugs. You were playing. You were surrounded by people who were cheating.

[Frank Thomas]

Right. But I look at it as the biggest, strongest guy in the room. So everyone wanted to be the guy that's hitting the ball at the ballpark consistently. Batting practice, game, but also getting hits and stuff. Like, I was different. I was a different animal. But I'll tell you where all that started. You know, I grew up in the boys club because both My parents worked nine to five. So after school at 2:00, I went to the East Columbus Boys Club. And that's where that real competitive sports edge began. And we played everything, basketball, football, baseball, foosball, pool, ping pong. We just, you know, had that atmosphere.

[Dan Le Batard]

Were you better than everybody because you could have played professional football as well.

[Frank Thomas]

My brother Michael's three years older, so I wanted to hang with his crowd all the time. So I had to hold my own. Always been that young kid or they'll push me, me out of the way. So I played basketball against them, football against them, everything. So when I started growing up and getting bigger and stronger and faster, I was not, I guess, intimidated of the older players because I grew up in that environment and that made me who I was. So wanting to succeed, wanting to be better than everyone else, it started there trying to compete with older kids.

[Dan Le Batard]

So what did support at home look like? When you've got the disciplinarian, you've got a great foundation of love.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes, great foundation of love. But it was very disciplined. I saw my other brothers and sisters screw up a few times, and I'm as a baby going, oof. That wasn't pretty. Because back then, parents could put hands on their kids to keep that discipline in line. I didn't want any part of that. I knew what I had to do to stay out of trouble, and I stayed out of trouble because I just. I didn't feel trouble was where I wanted to be. I wanted to be successful. I wanted to be somebody. I wanted to be something different.

[Dan Le Batard]

So you have six kids. What do you take from your parents? And what do you push aside one of them? You came in here, couldn't talk enough about somebody that you're saying in your family that you think is gonna be a better baseball player than you were?

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I look at it, I have three boys and three girls. I've been married twice. My first marriage right in the middle of my career, things just weren't right. I mean, I had a lot to do with that because of baseball. But I tell people my biggest take of that is be the best father you possibly can be. And I've been that guy. I've been a role model sitting there with my kids. I invite them to everything I do. I keep them with me offseason, always had them with me. I care about being a father because I had good parents who cared about being a good mother and father. And so that's something that I really care about. My wife now, Megan, she really cares about the kids. She's the same way. She grew up in a great household. Who? Mom and dad were very, very, you know, great people with their kids, and they still are today. You know, they taught me a lot about, you know, being a good father.

[Dan Le Batard]

Are you the same kind of disciplinarian?

[Frank Thomas]

I'm a little light on my feet to my dad. You know, you gotta understand, when there's not much finances going on, there's a lot more stress. So I've been blessed to have finances for years and not be as stressed as my father and mother were. Trying to, you know, keep food on the table for a lot of kids.

[Dan Le Batard]

What do you remember about that stress? I've got a number of questions about what you just said. What do you remember about the stress in your household? Because that sounded like a lot of jobs for dads. Mom's an inspector at the mill.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes.

[Dan Le Batard]

And the kids are a handful.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes. I mean, there were times. I mean, there's good times, there's bad times. You know, high times were eating great. Low times were not eating as great. But you enjoyed everything your mom and dad put on the table for you, and you respected that. And you never disrespected my parents. Because I kept myself busy with a ball in my hand, and that was important. More important to me than anything. And I felt that would be my way out one day because I wanted to be something to help my mother and father.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, this part's interesting because you. For your nieces and nephews, you'll close out a Toys R Us for them. You'll send your father a Mercedes on a flatbed truck. You've tried to buy a home for your mother, and she says, no, I'll stay where I am.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes. You know, they just wanted me to remodel it. They love the neighborhood we grew up in. I'm like, mom, Dad, I got money now. Let's move to the north side of town. I'm like, no, our people are here. Our family's here. We want to be here. If you want to do something, make this place better. And I did. I remodeled the total house for them, made it the biggest house on the block. But, you know, mom and dad, they loved that, respected that, and they stayed with their people. And that was more important to their people, too, that, oh, you're not so fancy now. You're going to leave us? No. My mother and father, until my father died and my mother died, they stayed in the same neighborhood.

[Dan Le Batard]

I have heard your sister say of your father's death. Frank has not gotten over It. Frank has not actually dealt with it. I don't know how old those quotes are when she's saying that. I don't know if you've gotten any better at handling that.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, it's something you never want to get over. Because my father would go to every practice, every game. I mean, I went to Auburn University, and that was 45 minutes from Columbus, Georgia. My dad was almost at all my practices. That's how big a fan he was of his kid. So I respect and love that. I'm so gracious of it because most fathers wouldn't do that, especially when you're working nine to five. So, yes, I've gotten over it now because I've matured, you know, I've matured, you know, so many years after the game, you get older and you respect. And now I'm starting to lose. Friends at my age are passing away. So you start to understand the circle of life. You're not here forever. So what my mom and dad did with me was heroic and love them to death, and I will always love them. I wish they were still here. But reality, you gotta understand. I'm in my mid-50s now, so that's one of those things that, you know, you start looking at your. Your peers and you're starting to see people pass away.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's the first time. It's the first time I've ever done that. I don't have an athlete's bulletproof mentality. Right? So something that has served you for a long time is sort of the feeling like even if the. If you're the big hurt, even if your body can break down, I can overcome just recently in losing my brother and then just feeling my age in other places. The mortality visits you in a way that is unavoidable.

[Frank Thomas]

It is. I mean, of late, you know, we've lost some greats, you know, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, now Pete Rose, who I just worked with for many years at Fox. And, you know, losing him a couple weeks ago, I just. It made me break down because I remember having those conversations with him, you know, where he went wrong and how he's moved forward and, you know, being the guy that he is, because that guy could crack me up like no one else. I enjoy working TV with him because I got to really know him. And one thing about him, he never lied to me about anything. So I know other people view him a certain way, but he told me things that, you know, he needed to tell me that made me feel like, this is a great man because he's been honest with me and he didn't have to be honest with me, working with me on a daily basis. That's why we had such rapport on camera. That's why we were great together on camera, because we had a friendship.

[Dan Le Batard]

As someone who has problems with cheaters and rule breaking, should he be in the hall of Fame?

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I don't have a problem with cheaters and rule breakers. I understand most people come from nothing and they will do anything to acquire wealth and whatever it takes. I just wasn't built that way. But I look at Pete, absolutely what he did for the game of baseball, maybe never, ever be done. 25 years on the field with all those hits. I mean, I look at, I'm in the hall of fame, almost 2600 hits. Pete had over 4300 hits. You just think about that. So, you know, and one thing I feel bad about is he always told me, I wish I, you know, get in the hall of Fame before I die. And that hit me a couple weeks ago that he had passed away and he's not in the hall of Fame. But he did say, Pete Jr. I hope is alive when they get me in. So I'm hold on to that for that guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know why I would assume this about you, because I couldn't possibly know you this way. But it's hard to imagine you breaking down, at least in part, because when watching you from afar as a professional baseball player, I always found you to be a stoic, that it would be hard to get to you in any way emotionally, that you sort of had this perpetual armor on playing in a tough city like Chicago. The columnists were awful to you, like terrible. The things that they were writing felt cruel and misguided and to me had some race stuff in it that made me uncomfortable. Because you looked lonely to me as an athlete, that the ownership was white, the media was white, the fans are white, most of your teammates are white. And yet you always gave off stoic professionalism. So it's hard for me to imagine things even like death getting to you and making you sob, break down.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I came up a little different, and I didn't finish my whole story. My dad, when he worked at Georgia Crown, worked for the richest man in basically Georgia. He saw me playing sports as a young kid who just passed away, Mr. Donald Lieberman. He passed away a couple months ago. Mr. Lieberman saw me play football a couple of times. And he said, hey, Lil Frank's got something I want him to Come to private school. And he put me in private school when I was a young kid. And I left that private school in eighth grade because the talent wasn't enough for me. But my early upbringing through elementary, all the way through early junior high, I got an education and I was the only black kid. Basically, it was, well, two of us, only two black kids in the entire school.

[Dan Le Batard]

So you're getting two educations?

[Frank Thomas]

Yes.

[Dan Le Batard]

I got to know you're getting the education.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes. But I got to know people. I would go to an all white school, learn that education, but then go back to the ghetto and deal with both sides of the fence. And I saw racism on both sides of the fence like no other. So I understood life. And it's. It's helped me today move forward and watch people make the same old mistakes. I've been watching since I was a kid. And I just shake my head because there's great people on both sides of that fence. And you can't say that everybody's the same because everybody's not the same. And for me, I used that growing up, you know, got to meet people, you know, either white, black, whatever, Latino, it didn't matter to me. I love people for who they are, and I've always been that person.

[Dan Le Batard]

Was the Chicago press experience as unseemly as it seemed to me from very far away. Do I have it wrong when I say you were a guarded, guarded pillar of professionalism who was hiding a lot of big hurt behind stoicism?

[Frank Thomas]

I don't think you got it wrong. But I think I was always misunderstood because I was focused, I was in a zone. I didn't want anybody to bother me. I wanted to stay right here. I wanted to be great. I didn't want to be good. I wanted to be great. And I gotta thank Michael Jordan for that because it was his town and Michael Jordan could do no wrong. And this big kid came up, starting to set records, doing everything. And they put that same pressure on me out of the box. Oh, you got to win six championships. You got to do this. And it's like, baseball is not that type of sport. You can't give me the ball and I can score. Every night you get to the playoffs, they're pitching around you, they're doing everything. A lot of great things in baseball has to happen for you to have success. So I look at Michael Jordan experience because I got to watch it firsthand. Most incredible basketball player we'll ever see. And I respected it. I started, I backed up out of that, you know, Because I said, they're hammering me because they think I supposed to be like Michael Jordan. And you find out I had a lot of success. But to win championships, you got to have a foundation. You got to have a team, 25 guys that. That really all in. And you got to have both sides of the fence. You got to have pitch, you got to have defense. You got to have great hitters around you, and that's how you want a championship. So I had no disrespect for any of those guys. I just wish I had to talk to me more because I'm a great person to talk to and I don't mind having conversation.

[Dan Le Batard]

The columnists were Jay Marioti and Skip Bayless. They were adventing the idea like they started the idea of sports debate television. And they were critics who were loud. And I remember this. In baseball, specifically, baseball players did not have athletes in general, a lot of respect for people who are critical in print and then don't show up in the clubhouse.

[Frank Thomas]

That's more important than anything. Jay never came to the clubhouse. Skip never came to the clubhouse. Skip came to the clubhouse one time. There wasn't a great situation. It was in Cleveland and the late Tony Phillips. Torma. I hate to say it, but Torma, no asshole. Right in front of me. And I was like, hey. I was like, tony, it's okay. He said, no, that was not okay. He went off on Skip. That's the last time he came to the. To the locker room and. But I forgive and forget. I mean, I saw Skip many days at Fox when I was working at Fox and. Hello. And, you know, nothing wrong with that. I get he had a job to do. I just wish he had spent more time having real conversation and doing interviews to get to know me. Because getting to know me is not hard. And from afar, people think, big, black, famous lot going on, interracially married. Something's going on with that guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Focus. Yeah, something's going on with that focus. Makes him aloof, makes him distant, makes him.

[Frank Thomas]

Thank you.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's trying to concentrate on baseball. It's hard to be excellent at baseball. I may not be as warm as you need me to be at, you know, 45 minutes before game time.

[Frank Thomas]

Thank you, Dan. I'm just. I was being pulled a million different directions. You know, had one of the first baseball players, along with King Gibberish Jr. To have big marketing campaigns, and that went all year long. There was no downtime, so I would end the season. I'm doing stuff Reebok. I'm going around the world, you know, to Asia, to wherever, to England, wherever they wanted me to go, you know, promoting another brand. So, you know, like I said, I wasn't hard to get along with. People just didn't take the time to really get to know me.

[Dan Le Batard]

And there wasn't time, though, because you just mentioned your first marriage. Your focus had to be such on what it is that you were doing to remain excellent at it and also all the business and opportunity that comes with arriving at success. You're saying I couldn't be the husband I needed to be or the that the what demanded, what the game demanded of me and I wasn't mature enough.

[Frank Thomas]

Thank you. And like I said, once again, I got to thank Michael Jordan for that because Michael has said has started doing something no one has ever done to market and promote a sport. And they wanted to do the same thing with baseball when I got with Reebok. So it took a lot of time from family times and same thing happened to his family. You know, he ended up getting divorced. And there's no happiness when you're never seeing your wife. It's just tough, you know, you grow apart and that's just what happens. So, like I said, I tell people the best thing you can do right now is be a great father. I've been a great father for many, many years, and I hope to be a great father for many, many years to come.

[Dan Le Batard]

The balance is hard, though. I don't even. I'm not even sure it's possible. Maybe it is. Maybe some people have spiritual maturity and enlightenment that allow them in their early 20s to figure out both adulthood and being a Hall of Fame player. It seemed to me that what you went through in your 20s and early 30s seemed to me uncomfortable and that it would require a lot from you in a lot of different ways. You remember it how when you're looking at the 15 years of you being.

[Frank Thomas]

Great at this, you know, I look at it as not being perfect. You know, you come in out of college, all these expectations, you want to get there, you want to do it, you want to make that money, you want to be famous. I would say the first seven years, I never got caught up and been a leader. I never got caught up in a guy that everybody wanted me to be because I was doing stuff to try to be something different. And I sat down around my 28, 29 years and like, hey, it's time to become a leader. You know, it's time to lead this team. Because I was hearing. I was hearing people. He's not a leader. He's all about himself. He's selfish. He cares about numbers, he cares about stats. It wasn't about that. I just believe in, if I go out and have the best stats every night organization, we're going to win and we're going to win consistently. I care about being consistent. And today with anything I do, I care about being consistent.

[Kristen]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Was there time to enjoy it though? Or was it too busy just pursuit, pursuit, pursuit, pursuit?

[Frank Thomas]

I didn't enjoy the first 10 years like I should have, you know, but I got older. I had much more fun in the game. I remember my favorite year in baseball was 2006 with Oakland A's, you know, and it brought something different out of me. Everybody thought I was done. I ended up having my best year in a very long time because I was happy again. I was relaxed. I didn't deal with the Chicago media every day, you know, because that all that became a see that. We can fire him up. Let's push how many buttons we can push. Ah, you know, that's what that was all about. I got to Oakland on the west coast. Everybody's laid back. I went six straight weeks and didn't do anything. There was no booing, there was no nothing. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Fans are in the parking lot going, don't worry, big hurt. We know who you are. We know it's going to come soon. And, you know, when I Went home that night, I told my wife, Megan, I said, it's time for me to turn this thing on. Like, I never turn it on. And it ended up having one of my best years of my career. And from that day forward, I hit like 400 all the way through. Ended up in like another 35 home runs or something crazy and had an unbelievable season. Ended up 41 home runs, like 118 home runs at 118 RBIs as a 36, 37 year old. So for me, that was. I felt blessed and it showed my true talent again just by being happy.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's a bit startling to me because it makes me wonder how much better you might have been the first 14 years of your career, the first 10 years of your career, if you'd been. If you could have absorbed. I'm happy and grateful instead of, you know, making your world as small as that baseball, which is what you did for eight years because of how hard it is to hit just a baseball. And then you decide you're going to be a leader. But when I'm saying to you that it all felt very pressurized, and from where I was standing, it seemed unpleasant to be you even as you were having all of the success, because it just felt lonely.

[Frank Thomas]

I can just tell you right now. Ozeki had told me about my first two years. You're in trouble. And I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? He said, you hit 350. 360. 40 home runs, 130 RBIs. You can't have a down year. If you don't achieve those numbers, especially in the city of Chicago, they're going to lambaste your ass. And he was right, you know, And I still have a great relationship with Oz. We do TV together. But he told me, and he'll tell you now on tv, you did too much at an early age after those seven straight years that no one has ever seen before. It's just, you know, you can't keep up with that. I don't care who you are as a player, especially on the baseball field, but that's how locked in I was. And I laugh at Ozzie every day because he told me that my second year in the game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Frank, do you realize, though, from my position how much it sucks to hear a baseball hall of Famer say, I couldn't really enjoy being a Hall of Famer because of everything that was bashing against me? It's what it looked like from down here, right?

[Frank Thomas]

Well, you know, like I told you, when you're the biggest guy, they talk about David and Goliath all the time. I was Goliath and I was supposed to do those things. After you do it for seven straight years, you're supposed to do it every year. I don't care if you're getting older, I don't care if you're slowing down. You have set that standard. And when you set that standard, people look at that standard and say, hey, that's where you need to be and that's where you got to be. So. And for me, I took it upon myself to be that guy. And when things weren't as good, I remember getting divorced in 97. That was my first down year in baseball. And it wasn't really a down year. I hit like 30 something home runs. I hit 277 and drove in 100 runs. But everybody was like, oh, he's finished. He's watched something's going on, he's lost his focus. You know, I'm like, I'm going through divorce with three young kids. So I was going to the plate like this every day because it was left and right stuff over here, stuff over here, not being able to focus on that little white baseball. So for me, once that all that, you know, cleared the air, I was back being who I was. And that was tough on the organization because that got a lot of organization strain going with me in the front office, managers, everything else. So I was a little defiant there for a year and a half because I had to be, because I'm like, what? Why are you guys treating me like this? When you saw what I did for your first seven years, you know, I'm going through something. Everybody goes through things. Once it's over, you're going to get the player back that I was and that, you know, I had to prove people wrong every day. So at that point forward, I felt like I was always proving people wrong and not being that happy player that I possibly can be.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's super interesting. The defiance served you though, right? Like going in there with a bleep. All you do. You know how hard it is to be as good at this as I'm. None of you are as good at your jobs. None of you.

[Frank Thomas]

They took it for granted. They took it for granted. They really took for granted of being locked in, in the zone for 162 games a year. They took it for granted and they've tried to replace it. They tried to replace it forever. And a couple years they got away with it. But majority of time they didn't. So as for me, you know, that's one of the things I do regret, is not finishing my career in Chicago, because I felt I had earned that. And to be released after the World series in 2005 with a broken ankle, coming back healthy because they knew I would be healthy again. They thought I was done, but I knew I wasn't done. I just needed to take some time and get healthy. And that explosion happened in Oakland, and it finished out the rest of my career until 40 years old. I mean, I'm proud to play this game for so long. 22 to 40. That's a long time playing a baseball season. I mean, baseball career. So I was blessed with it. And I tell people all the time what a ride it was. I enjoyed the ride. Yes, there was some turbulent times, but that's okay. It made me a stronger, more professional and a tougher person.

[Dan Le Batard]

You were pretty professional.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I always cared about being professional. Always cared about the other man, you know, Always cared about respect and respecting the game. That's why when I hit a home run, you saw me sprinting around the bases. I cringe now watching guys hit home runs and flipping bats and all that other crazy stuff.

[Dan Le Batard]

You hit the ball pretty far.

[Frank Thomas]

You hit it consistently pretty far. You know, like I'm saying, it's just like, been there, done that. I don't want to show up the other man because they feel just as bad as you give up a home run. You know, they got to feed their family. You know, they're. They're in trouble. You know, too many of those. They're going to be out of here, you know. But now the game is all about fun. I get that. But, you know, the flipping of the best. Disrespect another man, I still have a hard time with it.

[Dan Le Batard]

You would have preferred to end your career in Chicago with the White Sox? No knock on Oakland or Toronto Experience.

[Frank Thomas]

Oh, I love those experiences. Don't get me wrong. I'm so happy I had that experience at Oakland because it revived my career and probably got me to the hall of Fame. Toronto was a great experience. I just wish I had more.

[Dan Le Batard]

You were already in the.

[Frank Thomas]

I just wish I had more to give to Toronto because that organization was first class. They treated me like a king, and I gave them everything I had. I just hadn't gotten old and my, you know, arthritis, my ankles, I just couldn't do what I could do early in my career. So hats off to Toronto. They. They were patient with me as. As long as they possibly Could, Yes. I could have gave them average numbers. But like I said, once you set the bar so high, people not looking at you to give.

[Dan Le Batard]

Stop apologizing.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, no, when you said that.

[Dan Le Batard]

But you're 40. Come on.

[Frank Thomas]

I know, but when you set that bar so high, people can't. Can understand you've been an average player. They can't.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay. You were close to 40.

[Frank Thomas]

Yeah, come on. But still, give yourself a break. They still wanted big numbers. Okay. I mean, my last, but my first year in Toronto, hit 27 home runs and 96 RBIs for a 39 year old. I mean, that's pretty dang good.

[Dan Le Batard]

It is pretty good. They should be happy with that.

[Frank Thomas]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Were you made sad by Oakland losing baseball or everything happening in Oakland at the end?

[Frank Thomas]

You know, I'll be honest, it sucked because that fan base is tiny. But they support, you know, they. They're screaming and yelling at the top of their voice every night. I understand it because it was time to get rid of that stadium. It's time to move up. And I think going to Vegas will be special, will be a special moment for the organization. I do think half of that fan base still will support and they will go to Vegas because it's a good time and it's close enough that they can get there, spend three, four days, go home and it's drivable. So I just, I really feel Oakland having a big time situation like the Raiders, like the WNBA team and the Golden Knights. Trust me, I lived in Vegas for 15 years, a special town. And they care about sports. 24, 7. They're going to be fine. I just really feel the backlash is they lost the Raiders and they lost Oakland. A. It's gonna be tough for the city of Oakland. And I, you know, I feel bad for it because I joined the city of Oakland and they revived my career. So yes, they were the best, smallest crowds I've ever seen in my life. Because it didn't matter. The energy was unmatched.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're a champion. So you're saying the time in Oakland was the most joyful time? I'm not saying necessarily the best time.

[Frank Thomas]

No, no, no. It was my favorite season of my career. It really was. I had a young team that re energized me. Guys like Nick Swisher, Bobby Crosby, Jason Kendall, Milton Bradley, who was crazy but fun. Who else had on that team? Jay Payton. I mean, we just had a team of guys that just care. Mark Ellis. I mean, those guys really cared about playing the game. It wasn't about Money out there. It was about winning. And I had fun with those guys. And they just needed Mark Koch, who's managing now. You know, those guys were special guys and that's why we played so well. And I'll be honest with you, I think we could have got to the World Series that year if we didn't have that five day layoff like these guys about to have to start the World Series now.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's crazy though to say that that season was your happiest ever when you're a champion. Every time I ask an athlete what was the most fun you ever had, they do some revisionist history and they say the year that I won the championship because they got the ending right doesn't mean that the whole year was fun up until the end. It's crazy to hear you have a non championship year as your most joyous year. But it makes sense, honestly.

[Frank Thomas]

I mean what Billy Beane does out there and what Billy being did that year. I've never seen a general manager bring guys up ready to perform. I don't care how young they are, they can come pitch seven innings, send them back down, bring another one up, bring a bat in. Who could do something to help us. We had a team full of that and we had Ron Washington, that third base coach who made the game fun daily. I mean, I've never been around a coach. People like, what's the magic of Ron Washington? Just, just think about this. I'm always the first guy there every day, and he's always the first guy there. Ron would sit there with his long white underwear, with his cigarette, get you going every day. What happened to you last night? Big hurt a boy stuck it to you and like. And he would run and laugh, you know, but that's the motivation he provided on a daily basis. I had fun again.

[Dan Le Batard]

A lifer, a baseball lifer.

[Frank Thomas]

I had fun again. And that whole clubhouse was like that. It was about winning. It wasn't about who's got the biggest check, it was about winning. And we didn't care about anything else. And we had a lot of fun. And that's why we had a great team.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's cool. Do you have a best Milton Bradley was crazy story? Because there are a lot of those. Yes, there are a lot.

[Frank Thomas]

I had a great one kid mocking was sitting there in the seventh 80 one day. Milton had a bad day. He had struck out three times already. He walks off the field, goes up to clubhouse, he said, I'm done for the day. And I was like, what man? You can't I'm done. Hurt. I'm done. So he walks up to the clubhouse, took a shower in between innings. We were like about to start an inning and no one was in right field.

[Dan Le Batard]

He just quit.

[Frank Thomas]

He just went home. And Marco was like, Frank Ruckos. Dharma, go. I said, ken, it's over. He's going home. He took a shower. He's gone. He's like, what? So it was the longest in between ending because we had to get off the bench, warmed up to go to get out there. And that was the funniest Milton Bradley story of my time.

[Dan Le Batard]

He just quit.

[Frank Thomas]

He quit. He's just like, I can't help you guys today. I'm done. I'm done. Went up, took a shower, went home.

[Dan Le Batard]

So you're saying he didn't quit. He was just self aware. He didn't have it.

[Frank Thomas]

That words. That was unbelievable. It really was. I'm done for the day.

[Dan Le Batard]

You, you're not even mad. You totally understand.

[Frank Thomas]

He gave you everything he had every day. He was a hell of a player.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, he had a little more there. He. There was a little more required of him that he was not giving you at the end.

[Frank Thomas]

Some days he couldn't get out of his own way. But I'm telling you, what a ball player who cared about playing the game of baseball.

[Dan Le Batard]

Let's go back for a moment to what you were saying about being in an all white high school and just how you grew up. I believe that a lot of people look at you and your physical size and imagine that a holy man reached into a crib and just gave you an assortment of athletic gifts. Amateur draft. In 86, you go undrafted. And I would imagine that right around there, maybe a little earlier, is when Frank Thomas develops again. Observing from afar. Don't know this about you. A work ethic that he would put up against anybody.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes, that, that really hurt me. In 86, not getting drafted, I was the best player in the area. And six or seven guys at the area I drafted, I had no idea what happened. I was the biggest, strongest, fastest. I already had signed a football scholarship at Auburn University. I guess they thought back then big guys like me didn't play baseball.

[Dan Le Batard]

Tight end.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes, they were like a football player playing baseball. I remember talking to the late Cam Bonifay and Cam said, you know, at the time I thought you were just a football player trying to play baseball. I knew you could hit the ball consistently and hard, but. But, you know, didn't think you were in a. Been a baseball player. You Already signed that football scholarship. We passed, and I was, like, shocked because they could sign me out of high school for anything. I would play baseball. But Pat Dodd gave me a chance in football. They grew me up there. They worked my butt off. I got bigger, faster, stronger. Toughened me up a lot. You know, I tell people, try to block Andre Bruce every day. As a freshman going to college and a man who was the number one draft pick in the draft, you grew up in a hurry.

[Dan Le Batard]

You would have been a professional football player.

[Frank Thomas]

I could have played NFL, but it wouldn't been long. I mean, I just, you know, three years and out was not enough for me. Baseball, Pat Dye told me himself. Pat Dye retired me from base from football. He said, my team is. We're four deep in every position. What I saw on the baseball field with you, he watched me for, like, two straight weeks. He said, I've never seen anything like it from a big man. He said, baseball could be your career. It could be 15 to 20 years. That's how long you could play at the next level with your size, strength, and athletic ability. He was right. So God bless him. You know, Coach Ty made that decision for me, kept me on full football scholarship. He kept me there. So nothing changed for me and my family. He knew, he loved my parents. Nothing changed. I just played baseball.

[Dan Le Batard]

You did get drafted in the first round after going to college, but going back to being undrafted. Why were you undrafted? If you saw six or seven players in the.

[Frank Thomas]

And it was like 50, 60 rounds back then, I had no idea what happened. I have no idea what happened. The man upstairs had a plan for me, and it was gonna be bigger and better than coming out of high school, because I never probably would have got that growth in the minor leagues. You know, you think about the physicality of the SEC football, being in that weight room, you know, lifting three, 400 pounds. You know, growing up, I. Football. Baseball became very easy after playing SEC football for two and a half years.

[Dan Le Batard]

What was the relationship in and around Bo Jackson there at the time?

[Frank Thomas]

Well, Bo was. I didn't get to play with Bo, but Bo was a senior that year, and that's when he took the trip to Tampa Bay. I was supposed to play my freshman year with Bo. It was disappointing because I had lived in Columbus. I used to go over and watch him all the time. I had never seen an athlete like that. Never his speed, his size, that the weight is a tenacity. It was just. I'd never seen anything like that on the football field, so. But I Got to play major league baseball with him. I just saw him last week. He still gives me a hard time. But Bo's my guy. I don't care. I told him last week, I said, you know, I love you, even though you're an a hole to me all the time.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know, why is he giving you a hard time? How can anybody be giving Frank?

[Frank Thomas]

He gives me a hard time. Just give me a hard time. Bo is Bo, though. Bo's a tough. He's a tough son of a gun.

[Dan Le Batard]

But you're a Hall of Famer. You're the big hurt. What do you mean? I don't imagine anybody giving you a hard time.

[Frank Thomas]

Bo Jackson was probably the most athletic guy of our time. Of our time. Football, baseball, could dunk, a basketball could do. I mean, he's. If you see him hunt and shoot a bow and arrow, he could do that professionally. It's like the guy, he's gifted talent. I feel sad because I think we got robbed of seeing his greatness for a long period of time. But you saw him with the Raiders, you saw him with the Royals. Just a mix of talent that you probably never see again. That he could do it all. He really could. Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet? Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Frank Thomas]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient. Just like that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yep.

[Frank Thomas]

No hassle? None. That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap. Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.

[Dan Le Batard]

Take me through now. You get drafted and you go to the minor leagues and you're feeling. How about things in the. Are you. You're obsessed, right? Because you didn't really answer the work ethic question. There was nobody who was out working. Right.

[Frank Thomas]

That's second to none. My work ethic was crazy. I looked like a football player my entire baseball career. You know, I would go in legs one day, arms next day, but it was like intense. And I wasn't blocking 300 pound linemen anymore. But I cared about physical because I felt if I'm physically prepared. Every handout, coordination, all that came easily for me. So that's what you saw with me on the baseball field. A guy, big, strong, faster than everybody else, basically hitting a small baseball. And that's why consistently I could do what I could do.

[Dan Le Batard]

But what was the level of obsession?

[Frank Thomas]

I was obsessed. First guy there Last guy to leave. But I, like I said, working out, wanting to be great. I've always wanted to be great. I didn't want to be good. I wanted to be great. And that's. That pushed me my entire career. And that's why I accepted, you know, like I said, from the media, because they knew how obsessed I was. So they were happy to take jabs. If I go over four for a couple of days or over three, over four, what's wrong with Frank? No other players went through that. It was just. And I mean, I remember Jerry Manuel as my manager. I mean, that was his out most of the time. If team's struggling, Frank's got to do more, you know, because he knew I accepted that. You know, I was mad at him a lot of times, but he would do that, and that would just send the media right to me, like, what the heck's going on? You need to do more. I'm like, you know, okay, I'll deal with it. So we had a couple conversations about that. But, hey, I mean, he felt that that a great way to motivate the team and get the team going. All he had to say was, frank, need to do more. And I had a good time doing it some days, and some days I didn't.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the part I don't get, though, Frank. I keep saying versions of it seemed like it was hard to be you. And you're not taking any of victimhood there. You're not taking the bait on that. Because I'm looking at it, I'm like, man, this guy could use some positive reinforcement, this guy. It would be nice if this guy wasn't getting all the pride he was getting from the stat sheet. And it came from human warmth of he's being surrounded. But all you cared about was the admiration and respect of your peers, it would appear, and that you had biggest.

[Frank Thomas]

Man on the field. You look at Aaron Judge right now, and I watch it. I just shake my head. I mean, this guy's put up astronomical numbers year in and year out. And when he's in a slump, the world has stopped. He's not working hard, something's wrong with him, what's going on, blah, blah, blah. You look at his numbers like, are you crazy? Are you crazy what this guy's doing? And I feel for him sometimes because I know he's going through that same thing. And he's consistently done it over and over and over. His numbers are ridiculous.

[Dan Le Batard]

This. Have you explored when you say, I had to be great, good wasn't One of the options. Have you explored what's happening there? Like how much does that have to do with your dad? How much does it have to do in the childhood? Is there some not good enough in there? Like what's happening that's making you someone. It's not okay for me to just be good. I'm going to have to be better than everybody.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, it's growing up with not having everything you really want and knowing to be better than everyone else. On the field you can always have what you want. You can always fit in where you want to fit in by being that guy. And it drove me, it drove me to be obsessed, to be great. I'm sorry. I mean I tell guys, I tell my son now be obsessed. Being great. He is, it's kind of crazy. He's. Some days I'm like, okay, just take a break. No, let's go. You know, that's the way he is now. He wants to be great. So for little Frank, I'm like, I'm coaching him daily. Hopefully. I tell people not to over hype your kid because I never want to do that. But what I'm seeing and watching him respond right now, I'm seeing this on a day to day basis. I think he's got a chance of being a great one.

[Dan Le Batard]

I betrayed a confidence by saying that you said on the way in, I just can't believe it that he might be better than me. And I know I. You probably don't want to put those expectations on him. I just couldn't believe you were saying it though, like. Because there are very few who have ever been better than you. So the idea that your son would be able to do that was a bit jarring.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I teach the same way I was taught. He used a line to line hitter, but he's a lefty, lefty, that's the difference. You know, he'll be hitting, you know, 60% time against right hand, 70% time against right handers. That's just what it is. I'm just, I wish I could have hit lefties all the time, you know, I mean I, you're talking about the numbers I had. I probably would have hit, you know, 360, 370if I'd had left handed hitting all the time. Like a left handed hitter on gets the right hand pitcher. So watching him hit and watch him respond. Yeah, I mean I don't think he'll, he'll be the, the power guy that I am, but I think he between 30 and 40, you know, but I consistently looked at myself as 40 to 50. And if they didn't give me that kryptonite inside fastball, that far inside, I would have hit 50 consistently. So I tell people now, I watch the game and I'm like, oh, these guys are complaining about a ball a little down over the plate or whatever else. If I consistently got that ball out of the plate, there's never, you know, that little box, that little shadow box there. I wish I could have got that ball in the box all the time for a strike. I tell you that right now, it'll be unbelievable.

[Dan Le Batard]

Your plate discipline was extraordinary. You. The idea of being great instead of good is as simple as I wanted things. And there was real freedom. If I could be better at sports than everyone else, I could have the real freedom of getting anything I want from life.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes, it's important. You know, I tell guys, you just want to be great. I mean, I didn't second guess anything. I just wanted to be able to say, hey, I'm laying on the table every day. And I did it for my family, I did it for my friends. I just wanted to be consistently great for the organization. I wanted to win. First of all, it was about winning because I never really lost in my life. Always high school champions, you know, college SEC champions, you know, when I got to the major league, it was about winning. And I got to the White Sox. We were a doormat at the time. And within, like, five years, we were the team Everybody was talking about winning.

[Dan Le Batard]

The championship, actually winning it. Joy or relief, it was.

[Frank Thomas]

It was sucked because I was injured. 2005, I played a month, a little over a month that season. I had a huge impact at 13. Well, 12 home runs and 12, 13 home runs in, like 30 days. But I knew that team was going to win the World Series. That was the first time I looked at a team that had just as good as pitching, as hitting, defense, relief. It was. Everything was there. And I came back early, so I knew that was taking a chance of coming back. Refracturing ankle. The doctor said I needed two more months of healing. But I told Herm Schneider that year, I said, herm, this team's gonna win it. I said, I'm not gonna miss this. I gotta play on this team. And I ended up playing. And then rest of the year, I basically was a coach. You know, I really helped my teammates get better. So, you know, it was humbling. After driving the bus for so many years in that White Sox uniform to being a bus rider. The last down the stretch in The World Series, but it made me a better teammate. You know, like I said before, I watch guys sit on the bench all the time. Didn't think much of it, but it's hard to sit on the bench and not making the impact as you're used to making and watch success happen. So, you know, Ozzy and I talk about that all the time, but I think it made me a better man. It made me a better person, better man. And that next year I went to Oakland, healed. I was able to do that because that year I helped coach and I helped coach a lot of young kids. I helped get them better. Extra bp. Every day we're out there working on things. Nick Swisher, he couldn't hit a changeup. You know, I would get him out there early, make him hit every ball over the shortstop head and before long he was starting hitting changeups and you know, not trying to pull and yank. He was starting to get line drives. Hit 33 home runs that year. So I, like I said, I watched these guys. I had a lot of fun with those guys. And 2005 was really maturing and growing up for me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Your son is now getting all the joy of that coaching.

[Frank Thomas]

Oh, yes, he is.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's getting. But you're not coaching any. That's where you're coaching. Yeah, he's getting all of it.

[Frank Thomas]

Yes, he is. I help other kids around if they.

[Dan Le Batard]

Want it, but I'm saying he's the.

[Frank Thomas]

One day to day basis.

[Dan Le Batard]

What do you regard as the greatest things that you've overcome in your career?

[Frank Thomas]

Like the injuries, injuries. I tell people and then this is going to blow your mind. All the numbers I put up were done in 16 years. I had 19 and a half years. I was injured three and a half years of my major league career. And I tell people everything I did was within 16 years. So I look at my numbers for 16 years. If I'd have had those extra three and a half years of playing, you know, you're talking six something with, you know, crazy Frank.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're one of the all time greats, the white winner.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I'm just saying people think I just played nine. I didn't play 19 years. I played 16 full years on the field. Rest of three and a half years I was, I was injured.

[Dan Le Batard]

So the injuries are just because my will doesn't help me at all here. Usually I can will myself into football.

[Frank Thomas]

Hurt me, you know, I had a bad ankle from football that started there, you know, had ankle surgery out of high school and then I had Another scope job. So you know that that hurt me down the line from playing football. So that's why little Frankie was like, dad, I don't play football. He's very good at football. He said, I don't want to play any more football. He said, I want to play baseball only. So, you know, I'm here to up coach. But I understand staying healthy is everything. If you can stay healthy on the field with great, incredible talent, you can do a lot of great things in this game.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think people understand how flatly inhumane 162 games and that travel schedule is. Can you explain. Can the big hurt explain how much pain he was always playing in? Because once you're in at your size, once you're playing game 130 of a season, waking up in a different hotel room, there's just a pain you get used to.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, you start chewing Tylenol like it's Tic Tacs and Skittles, you know what I mean? But bottom line is, my first seven years, I didn't miss many games at all. You know, I was playing 161, 162 consistently. And it takes a toll on your body, and that's how injuries happen. So. But I always felt I needed to be on the field. I don't care if I'm making a huge impact that day, but I'm taking pressure off the guys around me and we got a chance to win baseball games.

[Dan Le Batard]

But how much pain were you in?

[Frank Thomas]

I was in a lot of pains. I played. I played many hurt days on the baseball field. I mean, but that comes with football, you know, so my mentality was, if I got a jog the first, but I'm in that lineup, it helps this team win. So it helped. And it helped set a culture in our locker room that if I can, the biggest guy on the team who's doing the most damage normally is playing hurt. Other guys can't complain about themselves being hurt.

[Dan Le Batard]

Where are the places not just the business of baseball. Maybe this is also a broadcasting question. Or the other places where you do business. You're an entrepreneur now. Where are the places that business have hurt you, hurt your feelings?

[Frank Thomas]

I really don't know. I've been very blessed. I'm still, you know, I got a new Genics campaign. When they first brought this thing to me, I thought it'd be over within two years. We've been 10 years straight as the number one Vitality product for men, and I had no idea. This thing has grown and people look at Me now walk to the airport. Hey, there's a new genics man. You know, it's not Frank Thomas, the baseball player. It's the new genics man. So, I mean, I've been blessed. I've had a great baseball career, and now I've hawked products for some of the best companies in the country. And I've had a lot of success. So for me, I just. I. I've always wanted to breathe success. And I believe that I can do things that others can't do because I am who I am. And like I said, there's nothing fake here. There's no fraud here. This is real. And I love people and I love the fans. The fans have made me who I am. And that's why I used to sign autographs until the last kid leave. Because once you go up that mountain, a lot of guys come crashing down when it's over. For me, I've walked down Grace Lee for years, and I love that. And that's the biggest joy I have in life, is walking down that ladder and people still knowing, hey, that's Frank Thomas. There's a big hurt. I retired in 2009, and I tell people that. And I'm just as well known today as I. And this took almost 20, 25 as I was in 2009. And that says a lot about the person.

[Dan Le Batard]

My question was slightly leading in this regard. I imagine that you were hurt not trying to get out of trying to be with the White Sox in a way that was most dignified in respecting and remembering your contributions to that franchise, but also not knowing the specifics of how it is or why it your run at Fox ended, or if there was another answer outside of that, that might be triggered for you where you would think, oh, here's where I took business a little personally.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, I mean, starting with the White Sox, I just think, you know, Kenny Williams and I got off on a bad foot when he became general manager. We were friends before. I think one of the first days he said, I'm taking over as general manager. Things need to be done. You know, you might have to take a pay cut. And I took that like, whoa, are you nuts? And I handled it the wrong way. And we became a little argumentative there. And then I said, well, why don't you just trade me? And that never went over well, you know, because he knew I was a cornerstone of that team. And taking over as general manager, you're not going to get rid of your cornerstone right away. And so I just think that put A bravado there that was negative from the start.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who's going to lead this team? Who's going to be in charge?

[Frank Thomas]

Exactly. Ken and I had a great relationship before that when he ran the minor league. We were great. His father was great. I loved his family. But we got off on the wrong foot when he became.

[Dan Le Batard]

What did you handle poorly there? I don't remember the details by saying.

[Frank Thomas]

Maybe you just need to trade me.

[Dan Le Batard]

But is that the way to handle it poorly? If you're being asked to take a.

[Frank Thomas]

Peggy franchise guy and you know when a general manager come in, he can't lose a franchise guy, what are you gonna tell the public, oh, I just traded the best player on the team. No, it's hard to do that.

[Dan Le Batard]

But why is he telling the best player on the team he's got to take a pay cut?

[Frank Thomas]

Well, it went downhill from there and it shouldn't have because I've always had respect for him and I think generally he had respect for me. And we just came more of a pissing match in town and the media loved it and they would always, you know, put us against each other and it went down a hill that it shouldn't have. Later, as we both matured in our jobs, we realized, you know, what the hell's going on? But I think it was too late at that point because it was the last couple years. But as for him, like, when he was released last year, people thought I was going to have a field day and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, I don't disrespect people like that. That's just not who I am. I respect him. I thought he brought a championship to 2005 to the White Sox. I tipped my hat and respected him because he did a hell of a job. He had a job for a very long time in the city of Chicago. But as for the organization, I thought it was time when that whole regime was over. I thought it was time for them to bring me back in a front office position because I see the game differently than a lot of other people. And I know I could have been. Had a huge success in the front office in helping them do some things, but it just has never happened. But I'm not going to lose any sleep on it. I mean, I've been around doing TV with them, doing local stuff stuff, but like I said, I. I got a lot of pride for myself and respect that. I just don't let things hold me down like other people do. I'm not gonna go in the corner go, oh, they don't want me around. No, I'm not gonna do that. I'm just gonna keep living my life, being who I am and been a positive effect on as many people you probably can. As for Fox tv, that was kind of devastating. You know, I Look at that 10 years we did this with the ratings straight up. And yeah, we had one of the most incredible postseason shows ever with different parts. But I was parked. Kevin Burkhart. Burkhart. And I was there the entire time. And, you know, I had one year left of my contract and I was looking for a big raise like everybody else. You go 10 years, a decade with somewhere didn't happen. So I guess it was time to release me. And they did. I just, it was, I felt like a gut punch because I'm like, whoa. I think I thought I was one of the main, you know, mainstays on the show, but it ended up not being that way. And team moves on. I mean, it's a, you know, TV business, agent driven business. And certain agents have a lot of power and they have other clients and they can move things around. That's just how it goes. So I'm not disrespecting anyone or upset about it anymore. I was upset for last year, but it was time for me to go back into the tool shed and say, hey, bring out some more of those tools of yours and figure out what you want to do now.

[Kristen]

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[Frank Thomas]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Gambling problem.

[Frank Thomas]

Call 1-800- gambler in New York.

[Dan Le Batard]

Call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut.

[Frank Thomas]

Help is available for problem gambling.

[Dan Le Batard]

Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play.

[Frank Thomas]

Responsibly on behalf of Boot Hill Casino.

[Dan Le Batard]

And resort in Kansas, 21 and over.

[Frank Thomas]

Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void.

[Dan Le Batard]

In Ontario, bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG Co Audio. Both of these places that you've mentioned have a certain disrespect in them when you are somebody who obviously, respect is very important to you. I saw again just now, in the original part of that story, you still get indignant about the idea of being asked to take a pay cut. Like, this is.

[Frank Thomas]

I mean, the number is what I did was historical. Like, how do you tell a historical player he's gonna take a pay cut? I mean, are you serious? Why would I do that? You know, I'm not asking for my money. I never was paid what I was supposed to be paid by the organization. So you asked me for a pay cut. I'm like, are you kidding me? That's what it was about, you know, Like, I'm still way underpaid for what I do on a daily basis. So, you know, it wasn't one of those things that. Disrespect and saying, oh, I'm not taking a pay cut. It wasn't one of those things. It was like I was already. I always felt underpaid. So you told me to take a pay cut. I just, you know, I got things off on the wrong foot and it shouldn't happen.

[Dan Le Batard]

The second one has some disrespect in it, too, though. It sounds like I don't want to make any.

[Frank Thomas]

No, it's like I said, I. I felt I deserved a lot more money over there, and I didn't get it. You know, I just, you know, it was time to move on. They brought in Derek Jeter, who I have a lot of respect for, and nothing but I talked to him before he took a job. I said, well, you know, some days you got to deal with some stuff you might not want to deal with. So. But they couldn't have replaced me with a better player. You know what I mean? He was respected captain of New York, Big media town, big media market for national tv. So, you know, hands off. I, you know, gotta move on.

[Dan Le Batard]

But why was it devastating? What was there disrespect in it? And I'm not trying to leave.

[Frank Thomas]

I'll be honest with you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Did you get an explanation?

[Frank Thomas]

No, I didn't get an explanation. But like I said, I knew I was great at my job, and it's disrespectful if you're bad at your job and you get fired. You understand it. But like I said, the numbers and the ratings was up. I had a big fan base. Just didn't understand how I was let go the way I was let go, period.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you talk to any of them about it? Poppy.

[Frank Thomas]

You know, Poppy and I got a great relationship. Alex and I never had a good relationship. You know, we. We are okay, you know, but TV is tv. We put on great TV moments, great entertainment. It's not their decision. It's the front office decision. They made the decision. You move on. I don't have any disrespect for any of those guys. It's just one of those things that I don't understand how I was released, but I was released and I dealt with it. A lot of people didn't understand it, but life comes at you fast. You got to react, you know, And I'm a big boy, so I reacted, and doing what I do, kept quiet. Get back in that tool shed and do what I do.

[Dan Le Batard]

That is your way of soothing yourself? Always. Right. I will bet on myself.

[Frank Thomas]

I'll bet on myself. I'm a talented man, you know, I know how to market myself. I know how to get myself going. I mean, just. I'm one of those things. There's a lot. There's a lot of things out there in the world that you could be successful at.

[Dan Le Batard]

How do you deal with failure?

[Frank Thomas]

Just like everyone else, you hate to fail. Everyone hates to fail, but that's part of life. And if you fail something else. For me, I've always pivoted. Keep it moving. That's just the way I am.

[Dan Le Batard]

I would just. The reason I asked the question is because I haven't gotten good at it either. But in baseball, there is great learning and failure, and it's a sport of failure. Even though you do short term memory.

[Frank Thomas]

Short term memory, you just get back in the tool shed, bad day, got five minutes to get over it, move on to the next day. That's just where I am.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why didn't you and Alex have a more personal relationship?

[Frank Thomas]

I don't know about that. We had a good relationship at times, but sometimes I always thought he just wanted to be bigger than the show. And, like, you know, that's just the way he is. I mean, he. He demanded a lot more attention than everyone else, and it's always been that way. I always felt that we could just pass the rock and keep it moving. That's what made the show better. And I talked to Kevin about it all the time. Let's keep passing The Rock. Let's keep moving it and not feel like it's somebody else's platform. It's a great list of hall of Fame guys that did a lot in this game. Keep passing the Rock. That's just the way I felt.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, you know what's interesting about this one, and forgive me, because I. Alex has done one of these with me. And I've known Alex since he was a high school player.

[Frank Thomas]

I've known him since high school.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is what I want to say, though, because you were the only active player who participated in the Mitchell Report, the only one. You have had a career, those numbers, 16 years, that could have been 19 and a half if you hadn't been injured. You did it the right way, you did it correctly. To be sharing a stage late in life, in midlife, with Alex Rodriguez in a show that was yours, and now with the idea that Alex is here to be the show. When you pride yourself on kind of being a good teammate, there's a lot of garbage here that would be very easy for you to be like, well, you weren't actually a better player than me. You did some things I wasn't willing to do. And I could see some of that getting involved there, too.

[Frank Thomas]

Well, like I said, everything that's happened over there has been documented. There's nothing I could tell you differently. But like I said, it's just. It's one of those things that I always felt like, let's be great teammates and just keep passing the rock.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm not.

[Frank Thomas]

No, I'm just saying. But the conversation on a TV desk, it is what it is. The more you keep passing around with great players, the better the show is. And that's just the only. Only thing that bothered me at times with the show. But as for him, you know, he wasn't alone. You know, Alex wanted to be great. He spent his whole life wanting to be great. So I. There's no disrespect. I don't want people to just come across as disrespectful. It's not. You're not a high school kid. And I know he wanted to be someone very special. He's doing well now. He's doing tv. He's a co owner of a basketball team. He's doing himself. He's reinventing himself, you know, and that's important for him and it's important for his family. And like I said, I don't spend time over spilled milk and got to continue to keep negativity going because there's no negativity there for me, it's very.

[Dan Le Batard]

Classy of you and it's very nonjudgmental of you. I guess the better way for me to have asked the question would have been how alone did you feel throughout? Being someone who was surrounded by people who were doing something that you weren't doing. And you're the only active player talking to Mitchell the investigator because it was important to you in some way to be like, it's not exactly fair that I have all of these expectations on me doing it clean. And I see that I'm surrounded by a sport that's not doing it clean.

[Frank Thomas]

I can be honest with you. I was naive to the fact of how many guys were doing it, you know, because I, like I said, I always minded my business. I had no idea so many guys were doing it because I, like I told you I was the biggest guy on the field, basically the strongest. I weight room non stop. I had that explosive power. So I was shocked when all of it came out. I had nothing to hide. That's why the mission report came out. I had nothing to hide. I didn't know what was going on. And when I went and met with these guys, they're like, I'm like, what are you talking about? I had no idea. So when all that unfolded, I was as shocked as any other people. I mean, there was guys like Seiko, they were saying, we're doing it, blah, blah, blah. You know, I wasn't totally 100% naive, but that, that was a lot of people throwing arrows on stones, saying, well, that guy's on it, that guy's on it. But it wasn't all the guys that came out, you know what I'm saying? So I was really shocked at the whole process of how to handle. And like I said, I didn't make a big stink up because I didn't need it. I didn't need it. My numbers were the same throughout the whole era and I stayed consistently who I was the entire time. And it was important to me to keep up with the guys. When I found out later that these guys was doing it, I still felt I had to work harder. And I did work harder just to make sure, maintain that I can keep up with these guys regardless.

[Dan Le Batard]

What is the proudest thing on your baseball resume?

[Frank Thomas]

Been a clean player in that era. It's got to be, you know, I put up tremendous numbers in that era, like I said, but I don't throw stones at people because of what they did, like I said they did for their families. And Everybody's goal wasn't to be in the hall of Fame. I had many guys and my goal wasn't to be in the hall of Fame, was to make as much money as I can and take care of my family. You got to respect that. I played football and I saw guys did the same thing because they had to, because they had to block the 300 pound, 400 pound lineman and they did what they did to survive. But as to baseball, I was just shocked that so many guys did it just to hit a baseball.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's great though. It's not only very forgiving. You're not doing a whole lot of moralizing that would be very human to. But the idea that you wouldn't have bitterness about that, it would be very easy to have bitterness.

[Frank Thomas]

I have no bitterness towards it because I got a kid, my son wants to play major league baseball and he. I'll be damned, he's a carbon copy of who I was. You know, he's gonna be better. Like I said, he's a more athletic kid because my wife played sports too. She was a volleyball player and a softball player. So he's naturally gifted. And I'm telling you right now, why would I try to burn Major league Baseball? Why? I have no, no respect in it at all. I would never do that. You know what I'm saying? Bottom line is my kid wants to be a major league baseball player and I'm pushing him as hard as I possibly can to be the best he possibly can. Because basically baseball has done everything they possibly can to clean it up. But when you dang, like care of 500, $600 million, you're gonna have a lot more guys doing the same thing, trying to get it. I promise you that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you do much in the way of bitterness?

[Frank Thomas]

No. Life's too short. Life's too short, Dan. I tell people every day, life's too short. I'm happy being a happy go lucky guy and loving people because I love people and people love you back when you love them. That's important.

[Dan Le Batard]

Does any of that come from upbringing? I don't know what, dad being a deacon. I don't know. What was happening in your childhood that formed your principles, morals and where it is you arrive at right up until you disrespect me. You're not gonna disrespect me, Right?

[Frank Thomas]

Exactly. It's just one of those things that, like I told you, going to that all white privacy school and coming back to the ghetto every day, I got to see both sides of that Fence. I got to understand people and learn people. Money meant a lot differently over here than it did over here. And people, it was about being who they can be in their areas. And for me, I was in the middle of that fence. I got to see the world with both eyes and that's who I am. You know, I see things from both sides of the fence. I have just as many white friends, I have black friends, I just Latino friends. I understand the world, how it clicks and how it goes around. And my insight is a little different than everybody else. It really is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Can you explain that part to me? Because you've said it a couple of times that you look at the world a little bit differently. Is it? Are you telling me, look, I see where all the cultural frailties are and I meet everyone with forgiveness right up until. Don't disrespect me.

[Frank Thomas]

Exactly. I can tell you right now there's racism on both sides of the fence. I was able to sit in this room because of who I was and learn some things because had a lot of white friends. Oh, you're not like that. And I'm looking at like, what do you mean? I'm black, you know, I mean, but I'm not like that on the other side of the fence. Oh, you go to school with all those white kids, blah, blah, blah, blah. There's racism over here, there's racism over here. Then you mix in the Latino friends. All that's racism is everywhere, you know, but like I said, I'm one of those guys that I was more of a sponge. I can take this, I can take that and understand the world. But I took it as education and learning people and learning a lot about people. So I've never been able to see color like the other people.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's interesting that you say that for a number of reasons, but one of them is because I would like for you at the end of this here to correct viewpoints that I have either incorrect or lend credence to them. One of the reasons that I admire you so much, even though you had your occasional flare ups with the Chicago media that I thought they earned every bit of your wrath on, is because at an age that now feels prehistoric, but I didn't know was prehistoric at the time, you are a Chicago sports superstar in the city of Michael Jordan in a largely white sport where a lot of people are telling the Latin and black players, don't be too flamboyant. You're working under the gaze of Jay Marioti and Skip Bayless, who bring upon the advent of cruel sports writing that tears down athletes. That from where I was standing, I couldn't help but notice that's a big black dude and those are two white dudes just burying this guy every day. So I saw without accusing them of racism. I just saw a racial element there that made me feel bad for you in the middle of it and made it seem to me from afar. And you're confirming it now, like your joy was diluted in the daily experience because you were always fighting something off. And hitting a baseball is hard. Tell me where I'm wrong and where I'm right there, you know, I don't.

[Frank Thomas]

Think you're wrong, but I didn't think about it the way most people did. I felt it was motivating. I always felt they're trying to push my buttons to make me better. You know, that's the way I looked at things. I never looked at it as a racial situation. I always looked at it. Some guys, some guys, you push them, they go to a corner and cry. Some guys, you push them, they come out with vengeance. And I always would come out with vengeance. And I think it became, let's see how much we can piss him off to see what he can do this week on the field. And that's just the way I looked at it. And most people didn't look at it that way, but I did. I just felt like I was always being pushed. Buttons were being pushed to be better, and that's just the way I look at it. I didn't have time to worry about people.

[Dan Le Batard]

I get it, but it almost seems like in this way, I'm not going to. You liked it, but it was fuel.

[Frank Thomas]

Yeah, it was always fuel to my fire. It really was. And I always looked at all time greats and said, hey, you think they didn't have to deal with some of that? When people want you to be great and you've proven to be great, they're gonna make sure that you don't have days off of not being great. And that's just the way I looked at it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Frank, it was a pleasure. Thank you for spending this time with us.

[Frank Thomas]

What a pleasure to be here talking to you again. I wish your pops were here because I.

[Dan Le Batard]

You love him?

[Frank Thomas]

Yeah, I love him. He makes me laugh.

[Dan Le Batard]

The only reason Frank is doing this.

[Frank Thomas]

He makes me laugh. I wish Pops. Pops were here. But you're incredible. What you've done in your job. I've loved you for years and thanks for having me back.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you, buddy.

[Frank Thomas]

Thank you, my friend.

[Kristen]

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