South Beach Sessions - Josh Johnson

Summary

Summary of "South Beach Sessions - Josh Johnson" Episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Introduction

In the January 23, 2025 episode of "The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz," hosted by Dan Le Batard and Stugotz from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, comedian and Emmy-winning writer Josh Johnson joins the hosts for an engaging conversation. The discussion spans various topics, including Josh's unique approach to stand-up comedy, media distortion, the psychology of billionaires, personal growth, community building, mental health, and contemporary issues like loneliness and police interactions.

Josh Johnson’s Career and Comedy Style

Josh Johnson delves into his career as a stand-up comedian and writer, highlighting his dedication to producing topical content. He discusses his relentless writing process, stating, "I just try to keep myself as curious as possible about not just like an individual story, but about how we get to certain places" ([04:04] Josh Johnson). His ability to create relevant comedy stemming from current events sets him apart in the comedy scene.

Media, News Distortion, and Social Media

The conversation navigates the complex landscape of media, with Josh emphasizing how different news outlets shape narratives through their inherent biases. He remarks, "As soon as you see that, as soon as you see that presented, you know that, okay, this is CNN's take on the story" ([04:05] Josh Johnson). He also highlights the role of social media in providing rapid, multifaceted perspectives, contrasting it with the slower, more biased mainstream media.

Discussing Current Figures: Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Diddy

In an interactive segment, Josh is tasked with providing comedic takes on trending figures:

• Elon Musk: Josh humorously critiques Musk's vanity and insecurities despite immense wealth, stating, "He's like a hurt kid...and...he's not really this, like, big, scary monster evil genius" ([07:01] Josh Johnson).

• Jeff Bezos: He discusses Bezos's subdued public persona compared to Musk, noting, "Bezos is like the one who's the most gently trying to get in... he believes in space as the real option" ([09:10] Josh Johnson).

• Diddy: Addressing legal controversies surrounding Diddy, Josh reflects on the pressures faced by high-profile individuals, saying, "It gives me hope that if you could just say whatever and hope it sticks" ([13:40] Josh Johnson).

These analyses reveal Josh's knack for blending humor with insightful criticism of wealthy elites.

Billionaire Psychology and Happiness

Josh explores the paradox of wealth and happiness, pondering whether immense fortune can lead to genuine contentment or mental instability. He muses, "I feel like when all your dreams come true, when you have all the money in the world, that is when you lose your mind" ([19:06] Josh Johnson). This discussion raises questions about the sustainability of happiness derived from financial success.

Family Influence and Personal Growth

Josh shares personal anecdotes about his supportive family, emphasizing the role his late father played in shaping his compassionate outlook. He states, "He was so optimistically supportive from the very beginning" ([45:27] Josh Johnson). The loss of his father profoundly influenced his approach to relationships and his desire to foster positive connections through comedy.

Comedian’s Role in Community and Therapy

Addressing the role of comedy in community building, Josh asserts, "Comedy's only really as important as it is to, like, it is to the people that watch it" ([28:56] Josh Johnson). He discusses the importance of therapy in personal development, highlighting, "therapy is just a first step" ([47:53] Josh Johnson). Josh advocates for using comedy as a tool to bridge connections and alleviate pain, emphasizing its communal benefits.

Loneliness and Pandemic Impact

The hosts delve into the "epidemic of loneliness," exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. Josh reflects on how lockdowns exposed deep-seated social isolation, stating, "The epidemic of loneliness is here" ([56:49] Josh Johnson). He underscores the importance of genuine human connections and the limitations of digital interactions, advocating for community-centered approaches to combat loneliness.

Police Brutality and Public Perception

In a discussion on policing, Josh critiques the aggressive nature of some law enforcement interactions, using Tyreek Hill’s incident with the Miami Dolphins as a case study. He remarks, "Once you press the roll up the window... that's aggressive" ([73:07] Josh Johnson), highlighting the tensions between police and the public. The conversation underscores the need for respectful, mediated interactions to deescalate potential conflicts.

Closing Remarks and Promotions

The episode concludes with promotional mentions of Josh's 2025 Flowers Tour and his online presence, reinforcing the community-centered ethos discussed throughout the episode.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Johnson on media distortion: "As soon as you see that, as soon as you see that presented, you know that, okay, this is CNN's take on the story." ([04:05])

• On Elon Musk's insecurities: "He's like a hurt kid...and...he's not really this, like, big, scary monster evil genius." ([07:01])

• Discussing the loneliness epidemic: "The epidemic of loneliness is here." ([56:49])

• On therapy: "Therapy is just a first step." ([47:53])

• On billionaires and happiness: "I feel like when all your dreams come true, when you have all the money in the world, that is when you lose your mind." ([19:06])

Conclusion

Josh Johnson's episode of "South Beach Sessions" offers a thought-provoking blend of humor and social commentary. His insights into media dynamics, the psychology of the wealthy, personal growth, and societal issues like loneliness and policing provide listeners with a nuanced perspective on contemporary challenges. Through engaging dialogue and sharp comedic analysis, Josh reinforces the power of community and laughter as tools for connection and healing.

Transcript

[Josh Johnson]

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[Luigi Mangione]

Hello, welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm saying this to this man right here and to you as well, because I'm excited to have this conversation with Josh Johnson because, among other things, a hot comedian who's doing stand up comedy differently. He's been an Emmy winning writer for the Daily show and other shows. I am fascinated how all this came to be. You're awfully young to have had some of the successes that you have now in doing the stage work that is different than just about anybody is doing these days. Because you're doing it topically. You're a content furnace. You're able to do comedy sets from club to club. That change with the news, that's not something that's been seen too much in my experience in this field. Which means you're trying to change the form a bit, are you not? And thank you and welcome for being on the show. If I have anything wrong and have talked at you, please tell me, because I'm trying to tell the audience who you are and why I admire you. Because I don't understand how any of this came to be.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I just. I guess I just don't do anything else. So that helps. Like, if you just are writing as much as you can all the time, then, you know, you do end up in a place where you have a lot to bring to the next show for the next night or the next city. And I think because I am like naturally off by myself a little bit, this is something that's been leading up to this moment of how I've always been mixed with what I'm really passionate about, which is, which is stand up. And not necessarily just politics in general, but the way that people are digesting the news and everything. Because I think that sometimes we don't give ourselves credit, that something is happening, but it's not really new. And so you hear people go on and on about a new development of a story, but then if you look at the wider context of history, you see that this is really just A big part of it is cyclical. And I think that one puts me a little bit at ease to joke about it, but then also makes it so that hopefully I bring something a bit fresh to the. To the idea.

[Luigi Mangione]

Can you explain to the people the process of. I don't do anything else. All I'm doing is writing. That makes you somebody who's curious about the world. This is a unique time in the world. There are a lot of people at this trough trying to make things. Things. I imagine you're super stimulated. So it doesn't even feel like work to you. It's just a bombardment of stimuli, 12 hours a day of things on television that are happening, that aren't funny but are funny.

[Josh Johnson]

Sure, sure. I mean, I think when I say I don't really do much else, like, I clearly eat and sleep and stuff, but I just mean I try to keep myself as curious as possible about not just like an individual story, but about how we get to certain places. So if I see something that is maybe on CNN or something like that, and there's already a sort of wide narrative of the way the story's being told because it's impossible to share information without some form of, like, moving the needle, some form of either a person's interpretation or their biases comes into play.

[Luigi Mangione]

Distortion.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Luigi Mangione]

There's no way to do all of this without a distortion from everyone's prejudice.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So as soon as you see that, as soon as you see that presented, you know that, okay, this is CNN's take on the story. And then you watch more news and you maybe see an MSNBC or a Fox News News Nation, whatever it is, and they're all talking about the same thing, but they either have different pundits on to discuss it, or the anchor themselves are giving the information to you in a very specific way. And so all of it, the story as it exists, is malleable enough that it's either funny how the thing is being reported, or maybe there's a missing piece of context that is not likely to be talked about because it doesn't fit the sort of general narrative of that station, or it's just maybe a misread, at least in my opinion. So then when I talk about it, I try to find the angle that hasn't been spent up. And then through doing that, usually there's already like a humorous bend to it, and then from there you just add the jokes, as many as possible, wherever you can, and you tag it all up. And then you've now brought something new over something that could have already felt a little bit played out or old, because the news cycle now, with all of the savviness that people have around the Internet and where they want to get their information, and once they get it from there, they sort of got it. So if you get your news from, let's say, Facebook or Twitter or something like that, it's very easy to get 50 different angles in the matter of 10 minutes just reading down a thread. And so I think that's one thing that whether you want to call it mainstream media or legacy media has not caught up to, is that there's never going to be a way for them to give the information as fast as social. And so adding the extra context of what everyone on social is saying about a story, then you also have hopefully now an even finer needle to thread. But you'll really be saying something specific if you can manage to walk the tightrope of, like, what everyone's already said.

[Luigi Mangione]

I'm gonna test this with you right now because one of the things I want to show the audience is what an evolution this is in the standup comic, to have this sharpened tool on things everyone's talking about. Can he or she find the things that are different and stimulating? So I'm gonna go through five of these with you. Okay. I'm just gonna hit you with topic du jour and see what it is that you got on any five of these things. So if I present you, just here's Elon Musk.

[Josh Johnson]

Okay.

[Luigi Mangione]

What do you do with all of that?

[Josh Johnson]

Like, just Elon Musk right now.

[Luigi Mangione]

Just Elon Musk right now. The minute that we're speaking, as he's chasing Donald Trump all around the country, clearly trying to buy the power of being the guy who runs America.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So I think. I think one thing that's really interesting about Elon Musk, at least today in the day that we're talking, the minute right now, is that while he's trying to do all these things that you would at least think have some. Some sort of influence on how he's going to run his business and some overall profit that he's. That he's planning for the future on, like, if he can get the right contracts, if he can get the right H1B visas from Trump and just get his blessing for. To move his business however he wants, then I think anyone who is, like, capitalist in their mindset can understand why he's doing that. What's hard to understand is that while he's doing all of this Stuff he's been lying to the gamer community about being maybe the number two or three gamer in the world in a very, like, in a very encapsulating game. Like, you need hundreds and hundreds of hours to even be good at this game. And he said that he was like, top three in the world, and then he got exposed for lying about it. So it's like, so super jarring that someone who's already the richest man in the world, that's gonna be one of the most powerful people in the world with his proximity to.

[Luigi Mangione]

They're all high school kids, still needs.

[Josh Johnson]

To feel cool to people who, like, there are gay. Like, I know gamers who are like, I really am not doing anything else. I don't know why he needs to impress me. That feels weird. And so then I feel like that becomes your angle. You go down the thing of, like, this man is going to be able to get whatever tax breaks he wants, tax breaks he doesn't need because he's already the richest man in the world. And yet somehow there's still a part of him that's like, I really wish I took this person to the dance. It's like that. That, to me, shows me a few things. One, that, like, he's not really this, like, big, scary monster evil genius or anything. He's like a kid. He's like a hurt kid. And. And then two, clearly, I don't need all the money in the world because the dude with all the money in the world is, like, still hung up about stuff that I feel like I've let go of. And so now you have your angles where maybe unless they've been beat down, you now have something where it's like, here's an interesting thing, or here's a thing that is a completely unrelated story, but it's about Elon. So it adds context to the other thing that's happening.

[Luigi Mangione]

Would you do this with Bezos as well if I offered you that as the second item for your chewing on just Jeff Bezos? Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

So, I mean, right now he's kind of like the quietest of the three tech billionaires who have really buddied up to Trump. I mean, in different forms. Like, Elon kind of came in hard and was like, I'll help you campaign and I'll show up to rallies and stuff like that. Zuckerberg was a little bit more recent, and he kind of came out complaining about Biden and about being what he felt like was sanctioned and. And being censored and stuff. And now he's all seemingly potentially pro Trump. I'm not gonna put that on him if it's not true. But it seems like he's really gung ho about, like, getting into like, the maga culture. And then Bezos, who has been the quietest. All he's supposedly done is killed, like, one endorsement of Kamala Harris from the Washington Post. So now to me, Bezos is like the one who's the most gently trying to get in. Like, he's got, he's got his like, seat at the inauguration, but other than that, he's kind of chilling. And I think, I think Bezos among all of these people is the one who, like, believes in space as the real option. Like, I think he might dip. We may one day not see Bezos anymore. Wonder what happened.

[Luigi Mangione]

Just like that.

[Josh Johnson]

And he's been on Mars for like a year. Like, that's what I think about Bezos, what I think about, because he's really like the quietest moving of all these people. Even when he got ripped, he got ripped quietly. He got ripped the way Chappelle got ripped. Remember when Chappelle was doing Chappelle's show and he was skinny, and then like eight years passed and he was just. There was that picture of him on a skateboard.

[Luigi Mangione]

I saw him in Miami down here. His arms were enormous.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, Bezos did the same thing. This dude was like, kind of balding, trying to sell books on the Internet. And then he became really rich and.

[Luigi Mangione]

Then he shaved his head fully, which is leather jackets. Yeah, it's the same high school thing. They're all high schoolers, right? They're all, they're. They're trying to wrap insecurities, normal human frailties in billions of dollars.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, I, I think it's, you know, one. I think a billion dollars is generally too much money. I don't see how. Like, one credit that I'll give some billionaires is that I can't imagine a world where like a normal person, which a lot of these people aren't normal people. They've kind of hidden the million dollar, multimillion dollar or background of loans that they got to like prop them up to at least traject to this project to the sort of success. Right? But let's say you are a normal guy and you come up with a, with a good business and you get investors and you do your series of investing and everything like that. Then you, you hit this like billion dollar valuation, which still doesn't mean you have a billion dollars. It just means your company. If somebody Bought it today will be valued at about a billion dollars, which might not even be what you get. Somebody might try to undercut you, but then you build up to the multi billion dollars to the point where now you can live off of your own stock and not pay any taxes because you're living in debt, right? Because you're living off of a loan from when you sell your stock. All of that being said, I think that the fact that no human needs and no Maslow's hierarchy of needs goes away with enough money is kind of why I'm good. Chilling where I'm at. It's like I'm good wearing the same thing every day. I think that is like one thing I've seen, like Bill Gates do is like wear the same thing every day. I'm like, that's just easier, right? And so I don't know how more of these people, they're clearly some of them are out of their minds, but I'm surprised they're not more out of their minds in like a let's try crack sort of way. You know what I mean? You already can afford everything. I don't know why you. I don't know why you need to go to space. I do wonder why more of them aren't doing like the most insane drugs. Like, develop me a drug and I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna get very high. I don't know if I would do that if I was a billionaire. But I'm surprised more billionaires aren't doing that exact thing.

[Luigi Mangione]

How about Diddy?

[Josh Johnson]

You know.

[Luigi Mangione]

Diddy is what just happened to you now? I'm sorry. Forgive the transition. It was clunky and I hit you with just three words and there a lot I unspooled at your lap there.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, well, I mean, out of everything you've asked me, Diddy has the most. So I do feel like one. I'm still wondering who else is like, nervous about the trial, Someone who hasn't been arrested, someone who hasn't been subpoenaed because it was Diddy had parties. These were parties. And I don't know about you, but I've never partied with like three people. Lots of people are at these parties. So people know things that haven't been asked yet, and they're very worried about being asked. And so I feel like when I look at Diddy updates, I'm more thinking about where Diddy is in the process of like, getting to trial and all that stuff. But I know that there are some people just looking at every update, just holding their breath, hoping their name.

[Luigi Mangione]

How could they not be like, I mean, you would think that all of these parties are total bacchanalia and that famous people behaving poorly. Because if, okay, we're talking about Bezos and Musk, but now make it somebody who gets all of that in their 20s and comes into billions of dollars with whatever it is. I've got to feel alive, get to Mars, or let me see if I can abuse my power all over the place.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And also, I mean, Diddy's lawyer has maybe the most work cut out for him in the history of law, because I don't know how a lawyer. Already they've made one claim that the tapes that Diddy was making of people without their knowledge, by the way, is somehow proof that everyone there was consenting. And I'm like, that's. So I'm not a lawyer. But that seems so wildly out of pocket to make as a claim that I'm like, maybe I could be a lawyer. Like, it gives me hope that if you could just say whatever and hope it sticks, then if that's what law is.

[Luigi Mangione]

But what is. How do you defend this? How the hell do you defend any of this?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, you do your best, but I just feel like with Diddy, it's like, you. I'm surprised they're not trying to plead everything. Like, the fact that they're like, my client is innocent. Why would you say he's innocent? That, to me, is like, the most jarring. Like, if I was Diddy, I was watching my lawyer. I'd be like, like, obviously, you. You then being caught, would wish that you didn't do any of the stuff that you did. But at the same time, now someone has to defend you. And, like, it is hard to come up with something because then the most out of pocket questions are being asked of Diddy's lawyer because of what Diddy is accused of and. Or did you know? So then they'll be like, why was Diddy here at this time with this person? And then like, even, like, the thing with Kid Cudi's car is genuinely insane. The thing that, like, before Diddy was ever arrested. And then somebody's like, hey, I think Diddy blew up Kid Cudi's car. And then Kid Cudi is like, look, more than likely, I'm like, how, guys, How. How do you. I don't know how you defend Diddy, but if there. If there is a way. If so if someone comes up with a way, I think it will be, like, a landmark case in law if you're able to effectively defend Diddy. Because it would be different if somebody was just being accused of a series of crimes in one thing, right? Like, if someone's on trial, like, Jeffrey Dahmer's on trial. He's on trial for, like, basically being a serial killer, you know, but that's like, one specific thing. So if he. If you can prove he's not a serial killer, you've already cleaned him of, like, all this stuff. Diddy is being accused of so many crimes, you would think that he did most of crime since he became popular, you know?

[Luigi Mangione]

Well, what do you think is true and not true? And wherever it is that the pathology gets completely contaminated on fame and wealth, whether it's Bezos or Musk or in a way that would make Diddy comfortable enough to think problem resolution is blowing up Kid Cudi's car. Because that's how I live. Because. And you can have all the rumors around, maybe I did kill Biggie or Tupac. You don't know. Like, seriously, when we're getting to these distortions of, you give the billionaire so much money, who wants to live on Mars? Here, Diddy. Here's everything Earth has to offer. In your 20s. Now, what.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I've said this on stage before, and it is something that I genuinely believe, no matter who you are, like, listening to their show or like anyone that I. That I think about in their lives, I genuinely, from the bottom of my heart, hope that like three quarters of your dreams come true. Like, just almost all of them, but not quite, because I feel like when all your dreams come true, when you have all the money in the world, that is when you lose your mind. And usually not in, like, a fun way. You know, like every once in a while, you'll hear of a billionaire you've never heard of before. That, like, maybe they're not the most, like, philanthropic person, but they're like, oh, I just want to make the best candy. And you're like, okay, Wonka. You know? But by and large, that much power, money, influence anything, Even if it's, like, happenstance, it leads to something that's, like, very bad for other people. Right? So you look at and for them.

[Luigi Mangione]

And for them, it seems like unhappiness to arrive at all your dreams, not have any more dreams, and then, you know, romp off on criminality or whatever insanity it is. Because your human experience is, I can dream no bigger than where I've already arrived. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

And, I mean, most people don't have to come up with more dreams. There's plenty of dreams they're never gonna get. So, you know, if you on a random Tuesday, needed more dreams, you'd probably lose your mind, too. You'd probably be like, yeah, like, I. Like, I've told people about it before. It's like, I don't know if Musk. I mean, I definitely know what Musk has done with Twitter and how he's leveraged it to be this sort of information disinformation platform towards his own ends. Right. I don't know if that was always the plan, if I'm being honest. I feel like he woke up one day and was like, what if I just, like, owned all the talking and then he bought Twitter or he joked about buying Twitter and then they made him buy Twitter. I don't know if it's. I don't know.

[Luigi Mangione]

It is. It can be. I like thinking about it that way. I've achieved all my dreams. You know what I'm going to do now? Now I'm going to buy all the talking. Watch me.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, I think that Mondays are difficult enough. Imagine if you had a Monday coming and you needed new dreams. I think it would. I don't know if it's a key to happiness, you know? Wow. What's up? I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes. You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your walls eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes. They made it easy, Transparent terms, customizable, down and monthly.

[Luigi Mangione]

Didn't even have to do any paperwork.

[Josh Johnson]

Wow. Mm.

[Luigi Mangione]

Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet.

[Josh Johnson]

I sent you for our dinner? Options finance your car with Carvana and experience total control financing subject to credit approval.

[Luigi Mangione]

I'm gonna get to a couple of the other topics du jour, but when it comes to your dreams, whatever it is that you were dreaming about when you were a kid, how many of them have you arrived at? How many of you. How many of them have you exceeded?

[Josh Johnson]

I have some very bad news for you. I'm almost there. I'm almost, like, out of dreams. So next time you talk to me, I might be out of my mind.

[Luigi Mangione]

We'll do this on Mars. It'll be a Mars session because how old are you? Forgive me? I don't.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm 34.

[Luigi Mangione]

Okay, so you're working in circles to have learned some things in show business that make you somebody who's had a lot of good fortune that is also earned. So what were you dreaming of when you were a kid? What were you studying to be? What did you imagine your life was gonna be?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, so I always wanted to do stand up. I just didn't know that it could be a job in a way. And when I went to college, I studied design and I used it for a little while. But ultimately I moved Chicago to start doing comedy and sort of built from there and then moved to New York and built from there. I think that my general dreams now is just to really be doing what I'm doing now, but at a more efficient, better, higher level. I think it's a dream of every comedian to get better. And now I feel like I have a chance to really build community and culture with the people that enjoy my work and the people who are out there struggling. I think that to some degree and in every way we've already covered it with the billionaires. Everyone suffers, so there's no need to suffer alone. If there's already something that happens to everybody, then why have it happen to you by yourself or why suffer in silence and stuff? And I feel like comedy is the thing that undercuts all that suffering, at least for a little while, you know. And I think that if I can get better at comedy, if I can get better at building community, then I think that that's the sort of world shaping stuff that has lasting impact even after I'm gone and I don't know, change the world as a whole set of set of bigger issues and problems than, than I'm like smart enough to tackle. But I think that you, you change your community and then that, that sort of impact blossoms out. And though, I mean, I think that's my dream right now, you know, I, I like what I wear, I wear the same stuff every day. I don't, I don't drive, I don't really do cars or anything like that. Like, if I can learn more effectively how to build community with the people who come to the show or the people who don't come to the show but watch online, or if I can make sure that some of the dopest people that I've met that just enjoy my work, get to meet each other and go off and make their own thing, I think that I'll be really happy with the work that I've done. So those are the main dreams right now.

[Luigi Mangione]

So I've got it right. So the North Star is change the world and also become a monk of comedy community styling where you welcome in, you want to change. And I'm not being Facetious here when I say your North Star, because you mentioned a couple of times now I wear what I wear. So you're fairly obsessed with the craftsmanship of what you're doing and its impact. And what you're saying is, if I can make people laugh and have community, that community will listen to me at times that I have important things to say. And that's lovely. And I'll just keep building that. Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I don't even need them to listen to me. I think that I just want them to sort of, like, have each other. I don't. I don't know. I don't even know if I'll always say anything worth listening to. I think. I think that if, you know, sometimes you remember the person that introduced you to your best friend.

[Luigi Mangione]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, maybe because you're still friends with them or maybe because of the situation, the happenstance, whatever. And that's, that's. That's the. The. One of the main goals is to. When I say community, I mean, like, the idea that, yeah, maybe these people met at a show, but maybe they all became friends, exchanged numbers, and now maybe they come to another show of mine, maybe they never come to another show of mine, but they have someone in their life now. And then I was able to influence that with what I do. Cause, you know, at the end of the day, comedy's only really as important as, like, it is to the people that watch it.

[Luigi Mangione]

Who taught you all of that, though? Like, where is that? You didn't just come upon that, did you? That's hand me down from somewhere or who influenced you there?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, my grandmother, grandparents, my grandma, My grandma, especially my mom, my aunt, my dad. I've been very blessed with good family and with good. Not just like, opportunity, but with good mentorship and everything and knowing what influence does to people and for people. And so if you're not careful with what happens as you gain influence, it all becomes stuff that happens to you as opposed to things that you can do for someone else. And so I try my best. I'm not perfect. And it's all very new. You know what I mean? All this stuff is. At least where I am now is a year old. So it's not as you've been touring.

[Luigi Mangione]

For a year, but you also toured with Trevor Noah before that. But your own voice, your own economy, your own things, you're growing into those now, right? You've always been a writer for others. You've written for yourself as well. But you wrote for Fallon. You wrote For Conan, now you are writing. For you, it's a totally different proprietary thing, right?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Luigi Mangione]

And comedies also tends to be selfish, does it not? Like, one of the things that I've seen in that world is what you're describing there. Most people are out for themselves, and I know you're out for yourself as well, but it's not in service of any kind of community so that they could be spiritually aligned with the laughter.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I. I think everybody does it for their own reasons. I feel like some people do comedy to sort of heal themselves, and some people do it to. To even. Even if you like. Like, I'm not. I'm also not trying to make it this, like, esoteric movement of. Of, like, social consciousness or something. I genuinely believe that, like, making people laugh is important because when you laugh, you feel no pain. And so I'm not smart enough to be a doctor. I am not dedicated enough or savvy enough to be one of the, quote, unquote, like, good politicians who would probably just get, like, lost in the ether. Anyway. I'm good at this thing. I'm good at talking to people and bringing an angle on a story that hopefully makes them laugh. And if this is the only thing that I'm really good at, then here's all the things I'd like to do in life, and let's see if we can connect them to get to that thing. Sometimes, like, comedians do get a little bit too, like, on a high horse about what comedy is or what it does for people or anything. And I'm not trying to do that at all. I just. I want to make people laugh because I feel like, one, when you're laughing about something, you can actually enjoy it, even if the thing is painful. And two, I think that when something even as goofy or dumb as a joke can be, when you can, like, talk to someone about a joke, you can build that shared relationship. And that's my way of doing it. So I also don't want to make it sound like I'm, like, trying to be, I guess, something bigger than I am in a way. I'm just having fun doing comedy. This is all the stuff that I hope happens while I'm doing comedy. So it's where I focus my attention.

[Luigi Mangione]

How did those people in Alexandria, Louisiana, when you mentioned them, family of all kinds. How were they supportive? You've mentioned how they influenced this shaping, but how were they supportive of a job? This is a tough way to make a living. All of it with writing. It's not Poetry. Poetry is a harder way. But you want to take all your talents and you want to do what with it.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, sure. I mean, no one was ever not supportive, but they were reasonably worried. I think it's fair to be like, oh, okay, you're, like, working this grocery store job and then you're doing comedy at night. All right. And then I think that it wasn't until I got hired at Fallon that I think people really understood that you could, like, make some form of living doing it. So, you know, no one was ever, like, outwardly discouraging or anything, but I think even with my dad, my dad was like, very excited about me getting into comedy and stuff, but. But when my dad was alive, I didn't have any major successes or anything, so he was just. That was just such a genuine support of, like. Of, like, oh, cool. Okay. You know, I don't even think he was thinking too much or worried too much about what I was doing to, like, pay the rent as far as, like, whether it was the grocery store job or, like, odd jobs here and there. I think he was more like, oh, that's cool. I like. I enjoy comedy. Hopefully you'll meet people that I like. You know, I've enjoyed my time at every job that I've had because I found a way to cling on to every bit of positive feedback, every good experience, all my coworkers who brought me joy and made me better. And so I feel like everyone's gonna have their experiences and things to say. I think that for me, when I look at making creativity a job in any form. Right. You. There is a certain amount of play that a person within themselves can potentially lose. Because now I'm not just doing this. Like, I'll give you a good example. When I did a little bit of freelance work, like, just trying to almost, like, sell. It was like selling Onion esque articles, like satire articles to sites. Right. Like, that was that for a little while.

[Luigi Mangione]

Hard work right there.

[Josh Johnson]

I was trying to like, okay, that's a hard hustle. Yeah, it was. And it was insane. It was very dumb. I should not have even tried to do this. This is before I was working at Fallon. This is before I was like. Like doing.

[Luigi Mangione]

You're trying to figure out how can I get paid for writing things. You're just trying to figure out the economy of where can I get payment for making people laugh.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And so at the time, writing funny's hard, man. I was in Chicago. I think my rent was. I was cheap too. My rent was like, 550. Because I was like, roommate and. And in a cheaper part of town and everything. So 550. All the places I was looking up, they would pay you anywhere from 20 to $50 for an article if it got approved. But there was still an editor, so they could still tell you, hey, go back, fix this thing, whatever, Right? But in my head I was like, all right, if I do like 1112 articles, I should be solid. But I haven't even eaten yet. I'm just like, 1112 articles. This should be good. But I love satire and I love writing and I love what these sites do. Right. So.

[Luigi Mangione]

But no safety net of an employer.

[Josh Johnson]

I'm just no safety net of an employer.

[Luigi Mangione]

So, wait, so this is crazy. So now you're in crazy town. You're going to try. You're going to try and believe in your dream, but you've got to. You've got to write the rent.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Luigi Mangione]

You've got to. You've got to conjure from a piece of paper.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Luigi Mangione]

The money that you are printing to pay a landlord for rent.

[Josh Johnson]

And this is all by the way with the hope that, like, this. This is all by the way with the hope that the things I'm writing, no one else is writing. No one's writing it better than me. I'm picking good topics they're interested in. Like, this was like pie in the sky. Insane.

[Luigi Mangione]

And need to be 12 buyers so you can have $240 every 20 every month.

[Josh Johnson]

Like.

[Luigi Mangione]

Like, yeah, not so. Just nuts. So math that doesn't work.

[Josh Johnson]

Exactly. As soon as you are doing that, you are having less fun doing comedy. And so I feel like anytime you take on comedy, entertainment, whether it's music, any form, as a job, you are adding something extra to the relationship you have with that art. And so I think that it's gonna be very hard to be making something with your friends and have it stay. Like, if you're talking about a working environment, like working for you or something like that, it's going to be very hard for anyone who brings a passion for what the job is in their personal life, and they're going to bring that passion to you and make this whole show and everything around your business better. It's going to be hard for them to do that with Rent on the line with. You know what I mean?

[Luigi Mangione]

And so everything is less fun with money concerns.

[Josh Johnson]

Exactly. And so I think a lot of, like, a lot of what it means to make money off of your art is going to entail having to make real concessions with what you expect every day to feel like. Because if somebody just told you you had a stipend, right? If somebody was like, look, I want to be even old school. Like when people. When artists had patrons, right? And they were like, look, your housing, your food, and maybe a little bit of leisure's gonna be taken care of monthly. I just want you to create even in that. Even in those relationships where you straight up had a patron who made sure you were gonna be taken care of. It was a blank check back in the day, like Roman times, right? Blank check. You still had a pressure of like, well, I don't wanna offend my patron. I hope in the painting portrait that I'm doing of their family, the daughter likes how she looks. So there's never gonna not be something to be in your head about around making entertainment.

[Luigi Mangione]

You know, art and business commingle uneasily and with contaminants.

[Josh Johnson]

You gotta remember I was working at a grocery store right before I got hired. And then even as I was hired. Cause I didn't quit right away, so then I was still like, hey, if this.

[Luigi Mangione]

What are you doing at the grocery store? Wait a minute. You're writing the Tonight show monologue while doing what at the grocery store?

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, stacking grapes and like, you know, ringing people up and stuff like that.

[Luigi Mangione]

So you're. And you're going in there and then you're writing. You're. You're cutting up 40 jokes and they're using three of them in the monologue. Or.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I let there be a little bit of overlap just because I was still in disbelief, I got hired.

[Luigi Mangione]

Well, how did they find you, though? How does all of that end up happening? Like, so how much crawling is there? Is that your big break? Is that.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I would say so. I would say, because I had a manager at the time, and my manager at the time reached out to the booker, comedy booker at Tonight show, and we sent a tape. And then that tape, I believe, got seen by the head writer at the time. And the head writer was like, oh, we like these jokes. You know, just. These are just jokes I'm doing to hopefully perform on tonight's show. And so they were like, oh, would he want to send in a packet? And so that got back to me. And my manager was like, hey, look, you can tell them you're not interested and you just want to perform on tonight's show and be about your way. Or you could write a packet's worth of jokes, like monologue jokes, sketches, desk pieces, all this all these different stuff. Any ideas? Right. And so I was like, oh, okay, I mean, I'll do the packet. I'm working at the grocery store, so I'll do the packet. Right. And then sent that off. And maybe a week or so later, I didn't even think anything had come of it. Low key. I actually thought I had maybe blown my opportunity to perform because I was like, oh, man, what if they didn't like my jokes? They didn't like my jokes so much. They're actually like, we don't like the jokes we liked before we asked you to. Oh, they don't want anything to do with me. I was like, I was in my apartment with my roommates, just like, oh, oh, what did I do? And then sure enough, I get a call from my manager being like, they want another packet of jokes. But this time is a tighter turnaround because that's what a day work would be like. And so then I did that and they brought me in for an interview. And then after I interviewed, I found out a few days later that I got the job. Right. And so once again, I'm like this kid that's moved to New York that is like, so, like, shell shocked that I'm even in this situation that I'm just trying to, like, have the best time possible, meet as many cool people as I can. Like, I'm. Even to this day, the writers that I worked with at tonight's show shaped a lot of, like, how and what I do now because it was the place that taught me to not be like, precious. It's like, you will write 75 jokes and it's only possible for three of them to be used because of literally time, you know?

[Luigi Mangione]

Yeah. If you're lucky, one of your jokes will be used. It's a failure game, and you're going to be grateful for it. Cause what's interesting about what you're saying is I'm sitting here talking about the pressure cooker and how hard it must be to write, to make money, and you're telling me some form of. Do you have any idea what I was doing at the time and what I come from? Like, I've arrived there. Like, the. The pressure cooker is my dreams. Like, I'm not going to complain about what the environment is. I got a job that's not at the grocery store and isn't in Alexandria, Louisiana.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Because even now, I kind of feel like I'm. I'm only speaking to my. To. To, like, my thought process when I go to any. Any job or when I look to, even when I put something online or something like that, because I have people asking me, they're like, oh, now people expect you to post. Do you feel pressure? And I feel like my, my feelings with that when it comes to like, what I'm doing and like the community that I'm trying to build and everything and, and how there's so many places you can fall and you can fail people, is that, to me, pressure is, is a, is a privilege. I did, I did what I've been doing for so long and nobody cared. So now people actually want to know what I'm up to or they care what I've done.

[Luigi Mangione]

But you're a content furnace. Comedians tend to be precious about this stuff. They sculpt and hoard and then they unveil in three months. Right. Like you're belching jokes. And I don't mean to cheapen it by saying that. I'm saying, like, you have refined and honed the craftsmanship, that this is the thing you like to do. So it doesn't even feel like work to you because you enjoy it.

[Josh Johnson]

Well, also, it's like, I think that what late night helps you do eventually is not be as precious because I feel like there have been jokes where in whatever environment I was in, the head writer would even say, I really like this joke. We literally just don't have time. So then you see how, like, it's not even always a merit based thing. There are so many different things involved with what show gets created for an audience that they watch and enjoy. And so to be part of that is something special. But also taking away the lesson that I took away from it of like, oh, just because something doesn't get used doesn't mean that it wasn't good. Just because the outcome I wanted to have happen didn't happen doesn't mean that's a knock on me as a writer or as a comedian. So then when now it's all up to me and it's all my show. When I go out and I tour or when I post things online, I'm, I'm less precious with, I'm less precious with giving it away because I've had to be less precious with, like losing it to a certain degree. And so that's kind of how I got here. Which is why I say that, like, every experience that I've had that's led up to this moment has it felt like everything was to get me where I am now. And I'm sure where I am now is to get me somewhere else so I'm not too stressed about like, I guess how I, how I share that stuff because I feel like one, thankfully the feedback is letting me know I'm on the right track. But two, I look at what it was like when it wasn't my show and I wanted to get this joke out and it just wasn't possible, you know. So I'm just grateful that people are enjoying and watching.

[Jeremy]

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[Luigi Mangione]

I have two follow ups on specifics.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah.

[Luigi Mangione]

Do you remember the first joke that made it on the Fallon show? Do you remember what it was?

[Josh Johnson]

That is a great question. You would think I would remember.

[Luigi Mangione]

I've got a follow up. If you can't find that one, if it's hard to find, that's fine. Do you have one that didn't make it that you're like, come on. That one. Or you recycled it somewhere else because you're like, that deserves that one. Should have gotten. That's as clever as I can be.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I. Sorry to let you down on both fronts. I have not.

[Luigi Mangione]

You take too many shots to remember them.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. I definitely remember the feeling of like, Jimmy saying my joke for the first time. And it was like on my first day as well. So it was like such a great start. Like, first day at the job and I got a joke on. I was like, so excited about it. And then once again, the monologue team, the writers not only welcomed me with open arms, starting out as this kid that just got hired, but they also took the time, which I thought was really special to some of them. Listen to my comedy album just to try to get to know me ahead of time. And it just felt like I was already welcomed in as soon as I sat down at my desk. And then the way that a few of them really, like, celebrated the fact that I got a joke on my first day. And they were very like, oh, that's great. Like, like, good. Good for you. You came in, you don't even know where the bathroom is, and you were able to get a joke or two on is like, pretty big.

[Luigi Mangione]

So. Yeah, it's unusual.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So now, now I really wish I would remember it.

[Luigi Mangione]

Oh, that's okay. You failed. You failed spectacularly. I don't care about is that I asked a good question.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, no, it was a great question. I'm sorry that I let you and.

[Luigi Mangione]

The listeners only thinking of myself in that circumstance, I don' the audience. I'm just thankful that I asked a good question.

[Josh Johnson]

You did do well and I was bad.

[Luigi Mangione]

I really blew a plume of blue smoke in your face, disoriented you, and now I am standing over you victorious. I have a couple of other questions as it relates to topics du jour that I will get to before the end of this. But you mentioned that your father never got to see you perform. You've had your family give you the proud moments, and that one is absent in a way that you would have liked. Because he meant what to you along this path?

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, no, just. I think he would have got a real kick out of the fact that things were. Things have gone so well. And like, he was so optimistically supportive from the very beginning. Like, even when we were on the phone and I was telling him, like, oh, yeah, I've started doing a little bit of standup and stuff like that. And he was like, oh, really? Such a genuine interest and. And such an excitement about it. That would have been something nice for him to see, you know? But yeah, it's tough because losing my dad, especially like when I lost my dad, I feel like was also that, like, sort of formative time because I was just really getting going career wise and Everything. And it really has shaped, at least to the best of my ability, how I treat people close to me and try to treat everybody as much as humanly possible. You could really lose someone. You could have the last conversation with somebody and not know it's going to be the last one. And so it's important to let people know how you feel and to be as generous as possible with, with all of the good things that you have to say. You know, I mean, you never want to lose somebody and not have them know exactly how much you, you care about them, how much you enjoy their company, what they mean to you, all this stuff. And so, like, one of my. Yeah, that was like one of my big, like, regrets, I guess, or like, I, I think everything happens on time, but I, I wish I would have started, quote, unquote, like, making it a little bit sooner so he could have seen some of it, you know.

[Luigi Mangione]

But you also can't learn until you learn what the impact is of grief, changing your perspective on that. Because my guess is you were young and probably bulletproof enough to not consider that that's what was going to visit. The last conversation is going to suddenly visit is not a way to carry yourself until you felt it one time. And then you only have to feel it one time.

[Josh Johnson]

Exactly, exactly.

[Luigi Mangione]

Because it hurts so much that you won't take it that much for granted. Like, there's, there's real life wisdom in death that way. I've found in the early stages of grief. I don't know how much that has to do with you choosing therapy. Espousing therapy.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I think therapy. Okay, there are two things that I think are important about therapy. One, I think that even if you have what you feel like is a handle on an issue or some problems or something like that, I do think that talking it out sometimes, like, I. Sometimes I will really think I know how I feel about something. And then when I talk to anybody about it, having to say out loud the thing that I've been thinking in my head is a different barrier to break than people recognize.

[Luigi Mangione]

Sometimes it's sharing versus being alone with something.

[Josh Johnson]

Exactly, exactly. And so it's like, I think that while therapy doesn't replace these things, I do think we're in this sort of, of era of isolation. We're living in, like, an epidemic of loneliness. And so I think therapy sometimes is just a first step in, like, it's not necessarily quite the same as community building, because I understand, it's like, you go in there, you pay a therapist, this person's being paid to listen to you. So it takes a little bit of the softness and the sweetness out of sharing sometimes, I guess, because there's a little bit of money involved. But at the same time, I think that even people who have community, who have whatever their religious leader is or who do have people to talk to, sometimes you have your people to talk to about certain things. And not that you should be putting everyone in buckets, but like here's someone who is not. It's literally their professional job to not judge you or to not bring any preconceived notions about you when you share something. And so I, I think that therapy is important for those two reasons. One, a lot of people don't have someone to talk to. Even if you have someone to talk to, sometimes they're not the person you want to share that thing with because you're worried about them looking at you differently or no matter how much they say they won't judge. There's something about what you have to say that carries a certain weight that can't be taken back. So I think it's good for, for those two main reasons. But I'm also like, I don't know how to put this without sounding like I'm anti therapy now, but I do think that therapy is only to me worth it with the effective practice of what you do outside of it. And so I think that, you know, I've known people who have been in therapy for years and they're still like kind of jerks. And it's not, and it's not a, it is not as if it is a chemical imbalance thing or a prescription thing or it's like, no, you go to therapy and then you tell your therapist how you were terrible to everybody and then you don't change the behavior. Feels like therapy's not really working for you. It almost feels like you're not going at this point. If you're just going to go and.

[Luigi Mangione]

Well, if you're just going to rummage around in your bin of narcissism and self involvement as opposed to going there to get the tools open mindedly, to see yourself clearly, to have tools so that you can go to work on yourself, on the things I liken it to just. Why wouldn't. If someone has some expertise, someone you trust has some expertise in me, they can feed my narcissism and help me be a better me, get me closer to the things that I want to be and make me more gentle with myself and all the things that you need to learn, because you don't quite know everything about yourself that you think you do.

[Josh Johnson]

And it's also like, I'm not saying it as if it's some sort of catch all for me. I looked at it as like, I do think it could and does at times help me become even better at what I do. Because like you said, with tools, right? Either give you the tools or show you the tools. I think the same way that a drill will never be a hammer. Like, not really. You can use a drill as a hammer if you want, and you can make a hammer a drill if you want. It's not going to be that effective. But if you go somewhere and they're like, this is actually a hammer. You should use this to hammer things. Now you and the tool are more effective. And that's kind of how I look at it, is that, you know, it's not as if I go every week or even every month. I think that I have a decent. And this may be misguided of me, but I do think I have a decent barometer for when I should be going and when it's time to talk to somebody and when it's, you know, when I feel like, all right, like I do. It's not about going until you feel okay, because you can still go and feel okay. I think it can still be very important. But I think knowing when it's serving you versus, like, you're just doing it to do it. And so I feel like sometimes if I think I'm gonna be just going to, like, do it in a way that's not productive, I do take a little break.

[Luigi Mangione]

You know, you used a phrase, epidemic of loneliness. And I think you have a chance because of the style, the way you're doing this generationally new voice. You have a chance to speak to some things in comedy that are new because pandemic is new. Loneliness of pandemic and everything that changed with the anger of the loneliness. I just got done talking to Lewis Black, who said he could be at home for like 12 hours. And then he started looking at all his problems and he thought he was going crazy because of what the pandemic did to us. I read the other day a stat like 74% of adult American men feel moderate to high levels of loneliness. The epidemic of loneliness. It's new, isn't it?

[Josh Johnson]

I mean, I don't know if I don't know how new it is, but I know it's been building up and it needed something like the pandemic to fully be Exposed. Because I think that before, before anyone was ever Talking about anything, 2020, even in 2016, you could feel a little something like bubbling up. And there were just practices that we had of how social, had the opportunity to connect everyone as far as all the apps, all the different ways of communicating, but then all of it was also very isolating in and of itself. You could feel like you had had a bunch of little interactions with people all day while not having a single intimate conversation with anyone. And so I think that that's something that I think was gearing up that just like, I mean, even, even if you want to Talk about pollution, 2020 exposed a lot of stuff because just people being like inside for two months and not having the air and the pictures, the aerial pictures of cities was like incredibly clean. It looked like whole cities were healed in a month, you know. And so I think that as far as an epidemic of loneliness, there are certain practices that are gonna be really hard to get out of just because it's human nature. Like, for instance, even with the phone, there's that phantom reach. Have you heard about that?

[Luigi Mangione]

I haven't heard about that, but I've done it.

[Josh Johnson]

The phantom reach is this thing where let's say you are on like a cruise ship and you have no reception and your phone is useless and you have all these people around you to talk to. Even if you are, whether you're a kid or you're middle aged, there will be times throughout the day just because of how much we're on our phones, that you'll reach for your phone and you may even open it and then be like, oh, wait, yeah, I can't do anything with this. And those are some of the only indicators that we have of how much we're actually on our phone. Because if you ask someone how much they're on their phone, they might say a lot or they might give you a certain metric. But it wasn't until Apple itself decided to expose our screen time and tell us every week how much we had been on our phone that people really got a glimpse of, like, oh, wow, like five hours a day. And it's not. And especially if their phone isn't how they do their job, you know, that, that, that really tells you something. And so I think that the epidemic of loneliness is here. And I don't, I don't know when it's gonna go away, but I think that when you build community and you build culture around connection, I think that you, you start to have like, like little seeds that you plant that will bloom later. That will be a practice of like, okay, maybe I'm on my phone, but I'm on my phone talking to this new friend that I made that I enjoy the company of, even if it's online, that I trust with things about myself and that I can set up a time to maybe meet in person and spend time together in real community and connection in my home or something, make a memory with this person. Because, Because I don't think it's bad. I know people from all different walks of life who are like, for whatever reason, cut off from community, right. Maybe, maybe they don't feel like anyone around them gets them. Maybe they just feel like, yeah, that sort of odd one out. And so it takes the Internet to connect them with another odd one out somewhere else. And then those two.

[Luigi Mangione]

It passes for intimacy 100%.

[Josh Johnson]

And sometimes it is the placeholder that people need. So I'm not saying it's, it's, it's all or nothing. I think that sometimes it is how you build the connections that are going to get you that, that next level that, that sometimes even saves your life. Because then when you do maybe, let's say, move out of your hometown or you get the opportunity to see this person in person, that, that's the real, like, you know, in real life experience stuff that, that, that we need from like a biological sense even. That's the big.

[Luigi Mangione]

To feel human.

[Josh Johnson]

To feel human, absolutely. So I think that that the. To me it's something that now more people are catching on to like, like with a lot of things, I think more or less obviously there's like disinformation everywhere. But I think that because of how people feel, people are waking up to things that you wouldn't have been able to convince them of maybe seven years ago. You know what I mean? I think it took things like the pandemic and I think it took having to like, even if you. I mean, I know it was different per state, but like, like all around the world with some of these lockdowns. I'm not even talking about necessarily the merits of lockdown or the efficacy of just it saving lives and stuff. I'm talking about in the actual practice of a lockdown. There were a lot of people who had to, for the first time ever, especially as Americans, with how much we work and how much we are constantly stimulated and how much we create. That had to stop and maybe take a good long hard look at themselves. And that's not always. I'm not saying that that's like Made the whole thing worth it or something. I'm just saying that by and large, that happening, it made people realize, oh, I don't have any real friends, like, now that I'm not working and I just have to sit here for. Remember when we thought it was gonna be two weeks? Remember that first, like, two weeks. I just have to sit here for two weeks and I don't have anybody to call. Like, now that I'm not working and.

[Luigi Mangione]

I don't use my phone as a phone, I don't want to call anybody. I don't take calls on my phone. I don't use my phone as a phone.

[Josh Johnson]

And remember the first two weeks, people treated that that like, okay, it's gonna be a little time off, right? So then that first week was all well and good. People were like, oh, hey, you know, people. It's so funny too, because it was like, people literally were like, not using it. What it for what it was supposed to be for, because it was like, two weeks, we're gonna shut everything down, see what happens with this whole little virus thing, right? And then people are like, man, two weeks off. Come over to my house. It's like, ah, that. That's not. That's not quite it. But I do think that after the first week, when watching all the movies gets boring and like, staying in every night and you finally have, like, an argument with your spouse or whatever, I think. I think that, like, really being, like, trapped and having to sit with yourself was something that a lot of people weren't prepared for, obviously. But it's something that exposed a lot of the loneliness that people feel. And so coming out of that, you obviously want there to be. To be the opportunity for people to connect, you know, And I think that that's a place where post pandemic, post, like, lockdown, Covid stuff, we're still failing people because there should be more places to go just to be in community with people that aren't just church, that aren't just this weekly occurrence somewhere you can go at any point. That's not necessarily a bar that you can be in communion with.

[Luigi Mangione]

A bar is lighter fluid on loneliness.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you're there with all these people, but now it's like, all right, even bars have their own dynamics where it's like. Like, let's say I'm lonely, so I want to go to where people are, so I go to a bar. Well, now anyone you approach is one. They're going to think you have some sort of agenda. You Know I'm approaching you because I'm asking you out. Can I buy you a drink? Whatever. The thing is, when maybe you are just trying to strike up conversation which sometimes is more off putting. Sometimes people are like, oh, I'm just trying to be your friend. It's like, ah, get out of here.

[Luigi Mangione]

Don't need a friend right now, you know.

[D]

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[Luigi Mangione]

All right, before I get you out of here and before we get to the last two topics du jour, I will tell everybody that tickets for Josh's 2025 Flowers Tour are available at Josh johnsoncomedy.com and you can subscribe to his YouTube channel at Josh Johnson comedy Luigi Mangione. What do you got? It's a lot. There's a lot there. And I was mortified but understood about a general reaction filled with so much desperation from people who are tired of being bleeped by insurance companies, by government, by rich people, by health insurance that they just want to kill somebody.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, I mean, I think that one of the things, Luigi, is that I think that every sort of established narrative that's been tried, that they've tried to create around him is failing because of people's disdain for the system. And so I think that's something that somehow a lot of news and a lot of like officials still aren't getting, you know, because I don't know if you saw the picture of him being escorted to the courthouse.

[Luigi Mangione]

Yeah, yeah, the Hannibal Lecter made it.

[Josh Johnson]

Look like the Dark Knight. They made it look like a poster.

[Luigi Mangione]

It was amazing.

[Josh Johnson]

And I'm like, that's such a absolute read on how they've misconstrued the situation. Because if you are an insurance company that's Trying to gain favor with the people again. And this will never happen because there's boards and there's C suites and there's too much money at play to do this. But I don't know if you remember when Earth Day was a big deal. So we're talking like 2002, right? Earth Day was such a big deal.

[Luigi Mangione]

The world could have been a lot different if Al Gore had won and wanted to change the climate and succeeded in doing something about what would be protecting the Earth.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. Cause like, Earth Day, I remember, I don't know what company it was, so I don't want to lie on them, but I think it was like. Like Walmart or something. Every company would have these Earth Day initiatives where they would be like, we save this much energy, or we use these fewer resources on Earth Day. Right? Now, obviously, what they're doing is that they're going bare bones for a day so that they can get the PR of saving a little energy or whatever.

[Luigi Mangione]

Of going bare bones for a day.

[Josh Johnson]

But the problem is, when they did that thing, people were like, oh, well, well, why don't you just do that all the time? Right. But if you're an insurance company trying to gain favor with the people again after something like, Luigi, you could just be like, hey, we're cutting everybody's rates for six months. I don't think people realize how little people need who are already scraping by to survive. I don't think they realize how little they need to go on longer. And I'm not saying this from a perspective of manipulation. I'm just saying it as someone who was in that situation of, you don't really know where rent's coming from. You don't really know. You haven't fully figured out how you're gonna eat, especially eat well. Right. You're just worried about the next meal. Someone giving you the opportunity to get ahead and get two meals ahead is huge. It's bigger than I think even a billionaire can fathom. Because a billionaire has all the money. A multimillionaire has all the money that they're ever gonna need for the rest of their life. They actually can't spend it. They can't spend it in their lifetime. No.

[Luigi Mangione]

That's where the disconnect is. It can feel like caring to simply not feel hopeless for five seconds.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And so I think that with Luigi, you know, I think that he's going to end up being more symbolic than anything he actually said in his manifesto or anything that he actually says in court.

[Luigi Mangione]

He's going to end up being a vigilante hero slash saint, slash, whatever. Hannibal Lecter. Cool. Because he defied the system and he broke the rules and he spoke for, quote, unquote, all of us.

[Josh Johnson]

I think. I think that, okay, if you could. If you could pick anyone out of a history book and actually have like a conversation with them that was in any form. And I'm not necessarily calling Luigi a revolutionary, but I'm saying pick a revolutionary, any. Anyone that you've picked in your head, and you actually got to sit across the table from them and like, have lunch. I think it would be a pretty disappointing lunch. I don't think that, like, you know what I mean? Like. Like, just because they were in, some.

[Luigi Mangione]

Revolutionaries don't know that they're revolutionaries. Why? While they're in the middle of the Rev?

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, they're just like, oh, I was dodging bullets. Like, I wasn't trying to. I was trying to like, live, you know? And so I think that no matter what, Luigi is actually like, as a person, and no matter what happens with his actual case, I think that if you make any person, if you pull any person and you separate them from what they are symbolic of and have a real conversation with them, they're gonna let you down in some form. Right. Because there were already people that like, weirdly. I only say weird because I understand the logic, not because I'm. I'm saying you have to believe what I believe. But there were even people who weirdly were like, on the CEO's side again when they found out Luigi actually came from money. Like, there's always gonna be. There's no. Perfect.

[Luigi Mangione]

All of these things are clouded and stained by our own prejudices when viewing them.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So. So I think that, hey, with Luigi, that, that that court sketch artist is going to have their work cut out for them not making him look hotter and hotter every picture. It's, it's, it's. It's going to be tough, you know, because even I don't know if you saw that. Did you see the one that. When they took the picture of him just. I think it was just his arraignment and he was looking over his shoulder and he was brooding. I was like, like, what is he doing?

[Luigi Mangione]

Brooding and sensual. Like, honestly, flirting with a public that wishes the bad boy murderer to be everything they wish him to be.

[Josh Johnson]

Like, they low key just to. Just to break him even. They're literally going to have to put that Hannibal Lecter thing on him just so you can't see as much of his face. Because every time, every picture, he's just, like, smoldering. Yeah. And I'm like, who smolders over being on trial for murder? You would not catch me smoldering at all. I would be crying. I'd be in there like, hey, I'll snitch on anybody. I didn't do it. Please. This man is over here. Quiet. And then he'll cut a smile to his lawyer for a second. They get a picture of the smile.

[Luigi Mangione]

It's like, no, I've seen him wink. And I hear the ding on one of the sparkling teeth when he turns to the paparazzi. I have not talked to you about sports. So I'm gonna take a random sports topic and throw it in your lap, because we're in Miami. I don't know if you. Anything about sports. I have no earthly idea what your sports knowledge is or isn't, but do you have any opinion on Tyreek Hill and the Miami Dolphins? The season that began here. I'll do it locally. Began with an arrest outside of the stadium, and then. I don't know what you do or don't know about Tyreek Hill.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So I know that when it comes to sports, I only know how the ball should be shaped. Jamie. Like, I'm. Like, I'm. That is a baseball.

[Luigi Mangione]

That's all you have. So you don't know. But you know who Tyree Kill is.

[Josh Johnson]

Knew Tiger Kill. I knew the Dolphins. I knew the arrests that happened. And I feel like, all right, I do think that, once again, just like we started talking about billionaires and money and stuff like that, I do think that there is a certain amount of money that at least in your mind, allows you the privileges of moving the way you've seen other people move or the way you think they move. Right. Because when you watch the whole video, I even talked about it on stage. It's like I said all of my, like, big, big thoughts about on stage, which is probably more than you have time for.

[Luigi Mangione]

But I think about what, like, police brutality or any of that.

[Josh Johnson]

I talked about him, and I talked about the police. Because I think that even the way it started is like. It starts in this way that's like. Did you watch the whole video?

[Luigi Mangione]

Yes.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. So initially, it's. It's like, boom, boom, boom. Lowers his window. Don't tap my window like that. And I'm like that. To me, that's like, all right, I understand. You're a millionaire. But now I'm very nervous that when you hit that button like that I. I mean, I've hit it before on people. I've never hit it on the police. Right? But then you get the police pulling them out of the car and, like. And, like, sitting them down, everything and getting them on the ground and stuff. And there's some of it. You can tell there's a shade of it in there that's just, like, you hurt my feelings. You disrespected me, and now you have to pay in some form, even though that thing in and of itself is not illegal. Right? And then you also saw people trying to check on what was going on, and the way they even spoke to those people, or the fact that they were going to arrest everybody who stopped and asked the question, hey, we're headed to Prague. What he do? Can I. Can I help? Can I mediate in some way? And so it does make me nervous that there is no. It's a scary thing when there's no mediation with the person who's supposed to be keeping the peace. I think that that is something that needs to be addressed in every police department, no matter what. It's like, if the same way that, like, you as an individual, right, you might be, like, righteously indignant, you might be ready to let somebody have it. You talking to them in the parking lot, and you're just like. And I'm talking about. There's a very different thing when you point like this, and you point like this, right? Like, you're doing this, pointing. You're over here, A right? And now you turn around and all these cameras are pointed at you, all these cell phones are pointed at you. You as a regular person, that makes you go, maybe I'm being out of pocket right now. Maybe I seem crazy. And the fact that, like, there is no. As a collective people around an officer who aren't trying to get involved. Once again, I'm not talking about somebody trying to, like, start a fight with a cop or attacking a cop or, you know, cursing at a cop or anything. I'm talking about if everyone around you, if you're a police officer and you're throwing somebody on the ground and you're putting your, you know, your knee on their back or whatever, and everyone around is like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. I think that there's this thing there in policing sometimes where to back down or to stop or to mediate the situation is to admit some sort of guilt or be wrong. And it's not that at all. Because as a cop, I'm not a cop, and I haven't been in cop light situations. But I imagine sometimes you show up and you don't know what's gonna happen. That's my general takeaway from what policing is like. You show up, you have no idea what's gonna happen. That's why they give you the gun. Maybe we're at a 10 out of 10 situation. Maybe we're at a 1 out of 10. We're going to give you the gun no matter what. Right? So you show up and you have the gun, and you don't know if it's going to be a 1 or a 10 out of 10.

[Luigi Mangione]

You never know.

[Josh Johnson]

And then you find out through talking to someone, it's actually a five. All right, we're at a five. I don't even need the gun. Right? But if you show up to everything or you take everything, maybe it was a 5, and then you yourself took it to a 10 because you were like, this looks like a 10. I'm gonna go ahead and just pull the gun. So everybody knows I'm ready for a 10. That's the type of stuff that I feel like, at least in rhetoric and in the process of policing, I think is dangerous because I'm a pretty passive person. I try to understand all sides of a thing. But I also can see where in that specific situation where it became less about, here's what you did wrong, here's where you broke the law, or here's the citation I need to give you. And it became more about respect me. And I think that once we get into a place where it's all about respect me, that's where I'm talking about. You took it from. It was a five and you made it a ten. And in this case, anytime it's traffic, it should be a three. Like, sure, if you're speeding, you could have hit somebody, could have killed them. This is why I pulled you over. You were speeding. I got to give you your ticket. Don't be a jerk. Right, right. But I don't know. I feel like sometimes things get taken to a 10 that were so clearly a 2.

[Luigi Mangione]

You're right. But while I would be willing to basically say I'm willing to make the absolute edict that everything in traffic, no disputes, is a three, once you press the roll up the window on do you know how long I've been famous, Officer? That escalates. If everyone comes to their own conclusions about what their prejudices are on a situation, that disrespect right there is going to escalate. You're playing lotto with cops. On where am I going to hit this cop in a sensitive spot that's going to turn that three into a nine.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah. And I think that's where the thing deviates from me because I'm like, okay, if you, if you are a police officer, the best way I can describe at least the public's perception of you is that you are in the peacekeeping business of customer service. Right. I call you when somebody's in my house, but it's still this customer service position. And I don't know if you've ever worked customer service, but I've worked in restaurants, I've worked at grocery stores, and sometimes I get the do you know who I am? And then I have to be like, I don't know who you are, but I still have to do my job because then now I cannot now be out of pocket because they were rude to me. Like, I'm working at a grocery store and they hit me with a do you know who I am? And if I'm like, you know what? I don't really care who you are. It's 1784 and I told you I don't have change for 100. So either come up with a 20 or get out of here. That gets me fired.

[Luigi Mangione]

That's right.

[Josh Johnson]

You know, so it's like, I totally get that. And that's why the roll up window thing for me, I was just like, like, like that was. I was like, my man. Oh, no. Like, I thought it was going to be a way worse video when somebody was like, have you seen the Tyreek Hill thing? And I started watching it and I. The click. And because it went up a couple times. It didn't go up just one.

[Luigi Mangione]

One.

[Josh Johnson]

This is the thing with once. Once is I'm rich, right? Once. It's like, I'm a rich man. I could see Jeff Bezos Eli hitting them with the once. Right. They wouldn't be driving themselves.

[Luigi Mangione]

No, they would not.

[Josh Johnson]

But, like, I could hear them from the back of my head. I could hear them tell the driver to roll the window. And he nervously goes, I'm so sorry. That being said, roll it up multiple times is aggressive.

[Luigi Mangione]

That's a rough move. It's aggressive.

[Josh Johnson]

I was like. I was like, oh, no, that's money.

[Luigi Mangione]

It's defiant. It's disrespectful. And he's been famous for a long time and he's got bad judgment and he's just generally reckless.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, because like, also, Tyreek Hill's not necessarily the most sympathetic guy to like, go to bat for anyone.

[Luigi Mangione]

He's not.

[Josh Johnson]

So then I was like, I mean, there's no perfect victim. But at the same time, I was like, guys, if this is the same guy I've heard about with other things, now you got me.

[Luigi Mangione]

Yeah. Yeah. He's not a perfect victim, but he is a pretty. Pretty imperfect victim. He's really good at the imperfect, perfect parts of this. And he can be right. And he can be wrong. Josh's 2025 Flowers Tour tickets are available at Josh Johnson comedy.com Josh joshcomedy.com and you should subscribe to his YouTube channel at Josh Johnson comedy. It was a pleasure. Thank you.

[Josh Johnson]

Thank you so much. Thanks for having. Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet? Yeah, sold it to Carvana. Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy. The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months.

[Luigi Mangione]

Yeah, no.

[Josh Johnson]

Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient. Just like that?

[D]

Yeah.

[Josh Johnson]

No hassle?

[Luigi Mangione]

None.

[Josh Johnson]

That is super convenient. Sell your car to Carvana and swap. Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.