South Beach Sessions - Max Greenfield

Summary

Podcast Summary – The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

South Beach Sessions - Max Greenfield
Released: November 20, 2025
Host: David Jacoby (for this session)
Guest: Max Greenfield

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Episode Overview

Recorded at the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this episode features a candid, in-depth conversation between David Jacoby and actor/writer Max Greenfield. The discussion explores Greenfield’s unconventional path to success, his struggles with traditional education, the roots of his children’s book series, forging a creative life, the joys and anxieties of balancing family and career, and his experiences working on the Netflix show "Man on the Inside" with Mike Schur and Ted Danson. The conversation is warm, humorous, vulnerable, and deeply reflective, offering listeners meaningful insight into Greenfield’s journey and the broader challenges of choosing an artistic life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Tone for an Intimate Conversation

• Greenfield requests a more intimate discussion, wishing the audience could've heard their off-camera chat (01:58).
• Jacoby introduces Greenfield and the Netflix project "Man on the Inside," created by Mike Schur (02:25).

Greenfield: “Mike Schur’s the greatest. I’ve known him for a very long time… it was spectacular, as you would imagine.” (02:57)

2. The Genesis of Writing Children's Books

• Greenfield explains how the COVID-19 pandemic prompted him to be more involved in his daughter’s education due to school closures. He admits schooling was always challenging for him, both as a student and parent (03:33).
• This struggle and public vulnerability led to him documenting the experience via Instagram, which unexpectedly created a supportive online community—especially among frontline workers (05:20).

Greenfield: “Using social media in the way that I think it should be used, which is we’re scared, we’re overwhelmed, we feel very alone. We want to connect with other people and see hopefully, that other people are feeling the same way as we are. And we got this tremendous response…” (05:20)

• A literary agent noticed the Instagram posts and pitched Greenfield on creating a children’s book. The concept, "I Don’t Want to Read This Book," humorously tackles kids' reluctance to read and is reflective of Greenfield's own struggles with learning (08:33).

3. Struggles with Education and Finding Support

• Greenfield shares openly about his academic challenges, eventual decision to drop out, and the supportive but concerned response from his family (12:56).
• The experience inspired his approach to children's books—being honest about struggles and opening conversations between kids, parents, and educators about learning differences (10:34).

Greenfield: “The books… are not like, solving childhood literacy in our country, but it’s another tool for teachers… trying to get kids to open up and talk about what’s going on with them and what struggles they might be having in a classroom that they’re unable to articulate.” (11:40)

4. Parental Expectations, Taking Alternative Paths

• Both Jacoby and Greenfield discuss the difficulty of departing from their fathers’ expectations—Jacoby’s father wanting him to become an engineer, Greenfield’s father being in finance—and the fears involved in pursuing creative careers (16:12–17:46).
• Greenfield recounts a humorous story of his dad interacting with rapper KRS-One at Warner Brothers, illustrating his parents’ complicated but ultimately supportive view of his artistic pursuits (17:59).

5. Hollywood Hustle: The (Very) Long Road to ‘New Girl’

• Greenfield debunks the myth of "early success," detailing 10-12 years of odd jobs, including delivering pharmaceuticals to retirement homes and various side gigs, while grinding for acting roles (20:00–27:55).
• He describes near-misses and the emotional rollercoaster of being a working actor without big breaks, with bits parts and no lasting roles for more than a decade (22:49).
• The realities of financial and emotional strain hit especially hard with the responsibilities of impending fatherhood, almost leading him to quit acting (31:14).

Greenfield: “I was running around on audition to auditions, and I thought, I don’t want to be the guy who’s like, bringing the car seat into an audition… It just felt like a very selfish choice at that point to put this career ahead of what was so obviously now important.” (31:14)

6. Crossroads: Family versus Artistic Dreams

• Both Max and his wife Tess go through career upheaval as she loses her casting executive job and he considers giving up on acting; both are unemployed while expecting their first child (33:09).
• Max emphasizes the profound effect of becoming a father—it changed his priorities and perspective on what mattered most in life (35:34–36:32).
• Ironically, letting go of his need for a "big break" and embracing his family responsibilities paved the way for him to land his breakout role on "New Girl" (36:32).

Greenfield: “It was probably because of that shift in perspective that I was able to approach what I was doing in a different way. And then was very lucky a New Girl came out.” (36:24)

7. Work, Success, and Sustaining Joy

• Discussion of “enoughness”—how neither host nor guest fully planned their careers, but instead followed what inspired them, pivoting when necessary and embracing unexpected opportunities (40:27–43:52).
• Both stress the importance of community, joy, and gratitude as engines for creativity.

Greenfield: “...the thing that I love the most in life is discovery… moments that feel like discovery to me are the most fulfilling.” (47:44)

8. Therapy, Self-Judgment, and Kindness

• Jacoby and Greenfield candidly discuss therapy and the lifelong challenge of being overly hard on oneself. Jacoby notes his biggest struggle has been learning how to be kinder to himself, especially after loss and hardship (51:50–54:33).
• Greenfield shares how he’s working to reduce self-judgment and find greater self-acceptance.

Greenfield: “It’s like discovering that I have so much power over… I’m giving myself so much power over myself. It’s weird. It’s a weird thing to discover this late in life.” (54:33)

9. On Confidence and Collaboration with Heavyweights

• Greenfield reflects humbly on his career, admitting to entering new projects "terrified" but relishing the opportunity to work with the best (“Man on the Inside” w/ Mike Schur, Ted Danson). He credits his ability to collaborate well, serve the vision, and learn from those around him (55:35–58:53).

Greenfield: “Being with those folks and being able to collaborate with them and not feel…scared enough…that it takes away from what we’re trying to do and have an understanding about what they’re talking about and what they’re asking from you. Being in that situation and feeling like you are adding to what they’re doing, that’s a really good feeling.” (55:35)

• He shares an amusing story about screwing up his one line during a complicated camera shot on his first day, and how welcoming and collaborative the environment ended up being (58:53–61:53).

10. Artistic Process: Playfulness and Growth

• Max and Mike Schur developed a playful working relationship, experimenting with bits and gags—some making the final cut—and deepening both their friendship and the creative quality of the show (63:18–64:56).

Greenfield: “It became a full playground… I may or may not have begged him to let me do [bits], which he then reluctantly allowed me to do. One of the things ended up in the show.” (64:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "I can't believe I'm here. I was on stage… at this thing. And they were like, well, you know, we had Bill Nye a couple years ago, and Maya Angelou… LeVar Burton… I'm so sorry." — Max Greenfield, on being invited to educator conferences (12:16)

• "Who’s going to pay you to do that?" — David Jacoby quoting his father's reaction to his desire to be a writer (17:11)

• "Most actors get jobs as waiters, but I was too scared to be a waiter because I didn’t think I could remember people’s orders… so I got this job delivering pharmaceuticals to old age homes…" — Max Greenfield (27:11)

• "I don’t know that my dreams were ever gonna fulfill me in the way that this child has. Those all seem futile now." — Max Greenfield on fatherhood changing priorities (35:34)

• "I just took the joy of doing that. And then the next thing you know, they were like, ‘You’re the guy we want to hire.’ And then I thought, well, I’ll never get it. And, you know, the rest sort of…" — Max Greenfield on how he landed "New Girl" (36:32)

• "The thing that I love the most in life is discovery… it can be as simple as walking down the Sunset Strip and discovering that in this moment I feel really grateful…" — Max Greenfield (47:44)

• "Are you hard on yourself?" — Jacoby

• "I’m trying to ease up. I’ve been so much better lately." — Greenfield (51:13)

• "I understand what you’re saying. I get, like, the self-deprecating thing and everything. Maybe, again, maybe it’s the wrong way to articulate it, but it’s the thing that I enjoy most in life and which I try to stay connected to always. I love that we’re having this conversation. It’s really nice. I didn’t think we were going to go down this route, but the thing that I love the most in life is discovery." — Max Greenfield (47:44)

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Important Timestamps

• [02:09] – Greenfield's desire for intimacy, his path to working with Mike Schur
• [03:33] – How the pandemic led to creating content with his daughter
• [08:33] – The children's book idea and its origins
• [10:34] – Reflection on learning struggles and access to resources
• [12:56] – Dropping out of school; family reactions; finding acting
• [20:00] – Greenfield’s “10- to 12-year grind” before major career success
• [27:03] – Delivery work in retirement homes; emotional impact
• [31:14] – Fatherhood, career crossroads, almost quitting acting
• [36:32] – Shift in priorities leads to “New Girl” opportunity
• [47:44] – On discovery, gratitude, and maintaining a childlike sense of wonder
• [51:13] – Both reflect on being hard on themselves and the journey toward kindness
• [55:35] – Working with Mike Schur and Ted Danson, creative collaboration
• [61:02] – The anxiety and humor of screwing up on set (“First take, really?”)
• [63:18] – Creative playfulness within show production, enhancing friendships

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Tone & Style

The conversation is heartfelt, vulnerable, and frequently laced with humor and self-deprecation. Both Jacoby and Greenfield share deeply personal stories while bantering about their respective neuroses, proving that vulnerability and comedy can coexist in discussing life's hardest (and best) moments.

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For Listeners

This episode is an engaging, often funny, but ultimately moving exploration of resilience, the messiness of creative careers, the power of support and community, and the profound effect of embracing joy and discovery—in art, in work, in parenthood, and in life.

Recommended for:

• Anyone feeling uncertain about their own unconventional path
• Creatives struggling with self-doubt or impostor syndrome
• Fans of "New Girl," Mike Schur's oeuvre, or Max Greenfield
• Those interested in honest talk about family, gratitude, and growth

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Listen on your favorite podcast app, or catch “Man on the Inside” on Netflix.

Transcript

[Max Greenfield]

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

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[20th Century Studios Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by 20th Century Studios. Upcoming comedy Ella McKay from Academy Award winning writer director James L. Brooks. Emma Mackey plays Ella McKay, an idealistic young woman who juggles family and work in a story about the people you love and how to survive them. Featuring an all star cast including Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Loudon, Kumail Nanjani, Iowa Debris Julie Kafner. With Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. Ella McKay in theaters December 12th a message from McAfee wondering why the post office is texting you or why you owe thousands of dollars in toll fees because someone's trying to scam you. The good news? McAfee can help. With McAfee's award winning scam detection. It's easy to tell what's real and what's fake over text in your inbox and online. If they're FA, you want a free gift. Seriously, if they're faking it, they're not making it past us. Get award winning scam detection today. McAfee.com Keep it real.

[David Jacoby]

Usually I look at this camera and I welcome people into south beach sessions, but Max Greenfield has requested that this be more intimate. So tell me how you want to do this so there can be a maximum intimate conversation.

[Max Greenfield]

I would have liked for you to have recorded everything we said for the last 20 minutes.

[David Jacoby]

Well, you were asking me a lot of questions. You're a sports dork. You were asking me a lot of questions. I should tell the people when I'm introducing you that a man on the inside is what you're doing now with our friend Mike Schur on Netflix.

[Max Greenfield]

Friend of the show.

[David Jacoby]

Yes. But you're not just here because you know you want to hang out. We're plugging something. So I've done my part here. Now we can go intimate.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes. Man on The Inside Season 2 from creator Mike Schur, starring Ted Danson.

[David Jacoby]

And you're in the mix.

[Max Greenfield]

I'm in the mix. We'll get there.

[David Jacoby]

But they've welcomed you into their family. They seem like really decent people. It seems very unhollywood. Whatever Ted Danson and Mike Schur and their significant others have going, it's Incredible.

[Max Greenfield]

Mike Schur's the greatest. I've known him for a very long time. We've been friendly for ages, and he finally invited me to come work with him, and it was spectacular, as you would imagine.

[David Jacoby]

Okay, well, I want to hear more about it. Should I introduce you as new girl, the neighborhood girl? This is your show. Writer of children's books. Like, if you want to be identified publicly by your work, what is it that you would put in front of.

[Max Greenfield]

People to tell all those things? Sounded great.

[David Jacoby]

Okay. All right. Well, children's books, like, that seems like something that's far afield from everything else you're doing, right?

[Max Greenfield]

It came about in a very strange way. A worldwide pandemic hit my daughter, who she was entering fourth grade, and there was some academic struggles happening, and we had put what they call scaffolding around her and support, and she finally was really thriving and doing well, and she had some wonderful teachers in fourth grade. And then the pandemic hit, and we were. She was at school on a Friday, and then a Saturday, there was like. Everyone felt like, whoa, this is bad. Sunday, everyone was just like, I guess we're home forever. And then Monday, the school sent us a curriculum that I was now tasked on teaching her. And I'm not the sharpest.

[David Jacoby]

Well, you famously dropped out of school, right?

[Max Greenfield]

I don't know famously, but you went.

[David Jacoby]

To pursue your dreams is a better way of putting it.

[Max Greenfield]

I don't know if my father would say famously. Yes, disappointingly, school wasn't your thing. School was very difficult for me. It was not something that ever quite made sense. Still kind of doesn't make sense to me. But, yeah, we were stuck in a room with a curriculum, and we looked at each other, and she knew my struggles. And I would say to her, dad couldn't read any of this stuff. And so I would come into her room every once in a while. Hey, did you do your homework? And she's like, well, you definitely couldn't do it, so why should I? And make. That wasn't the point of the story.

[David Jacoby]

No, that really wasn't why I was sharing with you. Again, not good at learning, not good.

[Max Greenfield]

At teaching, not good at parenting. And so, anyway, so we took to Instagram and took a picture because both of us were completely overwhelmed and frightened. And I think we captioned it Professor Greenfield, and we threw it out there and using social media in the way that I think it should be used, which is, we're scared, we're overwhelmed, we feel very alone. We want to connect with other people and see hopefully, that other people are feeling the same way as we are. And we got this tremendous response, and all these first responders called in or wrote on the Instagram and said, oh, these are great. We miss our students so much. I'm in the hospital. Our shift is God only knows how long. These pictures, these videos that we started to do are getting us through this. And so my daughter and I just started to break up the school day by making these videos. And within that, I had an agent call me and was like, you know, what can we do with this? And I was like, I don't know if we're doing it.

[David Jacoby]

So wait, so the agent did jazz hands all the whole thing. Like, I've arrived here. Wait, you've got a sweet, pure thing. How do we commercialize it? Well, and so you're like, no, it's got a better soul than that. It shouldn't be quite that quick and dirty.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes. And I said, we're not doing anything. He goes, well, what if it's like. First he said, what if it was a podcast? And I said, I don't want to hear myself talk that long. I haven't done a podcast in a really long time. I'm like, I love you and I love Mike. And I was like, this is. I really want to be here, but I'm so sick of hearing myself talk.

[David Jacoby]

That's not usually the way that one goes in acting. I thought you were supposed to be really enraptured with the way that you talk.

[Max Greenfield]

I did a podcast a while ago, and it was one I listened to and wanted to be on. And as soon as I said yes to it and then was in the moment of, you know, participating in. And I thought, oh, my God, I'm like the last person I want to hear on this show. And this is. This was such a bad idea.

[David Jacoby]

This is such a good sales job, by the way, on the idea of you're gonna find all of this interesting, I promise you. It's just. He's not gonna find it interesting. Cause he's bored by the sound of his own voice. This, though, is an interesting playground for you. So you made something pure in collaboration with your daughter. It was artistic at a scared time, yes. It created community. But on top of that, I found that a lot of actors, creative types, like, I've talked to a number of people in this setting. Let me see who was. I'm trying to think of, oh, Lewis Black is home for a day, alone in the pandemic, and starts looking at his life and doesn't like what it is that he's seeing and needs to start creating immediately because creatives have to create. So you do this with your daughter, though.

[Max Greenfield]

But it's organic, very organic. And also we were receiving all of this really positive feedback from people who were on the front lines of something that was happening, that felt. That was very, very intense.

[David Jacoby]

So community, the power of community, the power of not alone.

[Max Greenfield]

And we thought if we could continue to bring joy to people's lives through Instagram, like, great, we'll do it. So we did it. And it was nice. And people just. The comments were so positive and sweet, and I think they were really uplifting for her during that time.

[David Jacoby]

You the first person ever to have a positive experience with social media.

[Max Greenfield]

And so. And so he said, what if it's a podcast? I go, please God, I can't do a podcast. And he said, what if it's a book? I go, a real book? And he goes, no, no, no, he knew me. And he goes, well, what if it's a picture book, like a children's book? And I love children's books and I've read them to both my kids and they were about the right length for me. And I had always had an idea about a children's book that I would have liked to have written, but obviously was never motivated to. And I said, well, if I was ever gonna write a children's book, it would be called I don't wanna read this book. And it'd be all the reasons why a kid doesn't wanna read a book. But by the end of the book, they will have read a book. And so he said, can I pitch that? And I go, go for it. And then like two days later, I remember thinking, that was actually a really good idea and I would like to write that book. It's a shame nothing will ever happen with it. And then I think a day after that, he called me and he goes, we've sold it to Penguin. And I go, you gotta be kidding me.

[David Jacoby]

So it was just an ide. And it doesn't have much of anything to do with what we were just talking about. Right? You're writing an anti learning book that's funny for kids from an adult perspective that treats them like adults by speaking to their language. Nobody actually wants to be doing this.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes. And also the struggles that one has with it, or that a child has with it, or that I had with it, or that a parent has with it, trying to get their child who has problems with it, and it articulates a lot of those feelings and insecurities and hopefully creates a conversation for a child and a teacher, a librarian, whatever it is, a parent. And it was so relevant and present, and part of my experience that writing, it was a piece of cake.

[David Jacoby]

Well, when you say part of your experience, you're talking about your troubles with school. Right. Or whatever the norm was on how you were supposed to learn.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes, for sure. Times are a lot different now, and I think if you have the resources, which we do, and I feel very grateful to have those resources, but not a lot of people do, actually. You can identify real differences that kids have in their learning experience. I grew up in a situation where we did not have those resources, and no one identified those differences. And it wasn't until much later that I was like, oh, yeah, there's some real issues here. And so, you know, the books, and there's been multiple books since then, but they're not like, solving childhood literacy in our country, but it's another tool for teachers. And I just got back from the Indiana Youth Institute conference and spoke to a bunch of, like, they have this beautiful conference. They do. Was there Monday with all educators and youth workers and everybody, and spoke to them about these books. And it's just all adding to the conversation and trying to get kids to open up and talk about what's going on with them and what struggles they might be having in a classroom that they're unable to articulate.

[David Jacoby]

It's interesting that you're sort of framing it in a wonderful nobility when really there's just all the bleep you in you of. I was someone who didn't like to read books. Now I write them. I was somebody who didn't do well in school. Now I'm part of a lecture series at the school after I have dropped out. Like, this is an undercurrent in your life. Right. Make something out of taking a different path.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes. And also just. I can't believe I'm here. I was on stage at this thing. I was on stage and I read. I was reading. Well, who have you guys had before this? Who spoke at this conference? And they were like, well, you know, we had Bill Nye a couple years ago, and Maya Angelou came and spoke LeVar Burton. And I go, wow, you really.

[David Jacoby]

Yeah. They exhausted all of the good, good guests.

[Max Greenfield]

I'm like, I'm so sorry.

[David Jacoby]

It's good company. Yeah, you're keeping good company.

[Max Greenfield]

I know. It has been a wild, wild experience.

[David Jacoby]

All right, well, take me back to why Are you dropping out of school? And why don't you believe in school? And how does that go over with the family?

[Max Greenfield]

I shouldn't say that I don't believe. I just. I couldn't do it. You know, there was a part of me.

[David Jacoby]

You said you don't understand school.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, I think there was a part of me for a really long time that thought, you know, probably in my 20s and 30s, like, if I wanted to go back and I really tried, I could probably do it. And at some point, I got to a place where I realized I actually don't think I can. I think there's requirements for graduating a university or college that I really think I'm incapable of doing.

[David Jacoby]

What is it? It's not a lack of discipline. What is it? Scatter mind. Your brain works differently than the customized ways of learning.

[Max Greenfield]

I get distracted very easily. And if I find that I'm just not interested in something or that I've exhausted all areas of interest, and this is not for me, it's very hard for me to stick with it.

[David Jacoby]

So you follow your heart. Like, you're well aware of what your intuitions are, what you like and what you don't like. And so you were strong enough at whatever you were 17 years old to tell your dad or whoever, you'd be disappointing here. I'm not doing this anymore. It's not for me.

[Max Greenfield]

I would say strength was not what I would call it. I would probably lean more into fear at that point. I was just so overwhelmed and terrified of engaging in any type of education. And it just didn't feel like this is where I can't really articulate it, but it just. I had a. I guess a gut feeling where this is not the place for me. Organized learning. Being in a university or a college is not the place for me. And then, you know, I get. I. Whatever it took to have the conversation with my father about, I'm not going to continue this, which he was like, oh, my God. And then found an acting class.

[David Jacoby]

How does this go over, though, with the family? You're basically not well.

[Max Greenfield]

Not well.

[David Jacoby]

I mean, you're quitting on what their idea was, a life of discipline or safety, and you're not their responsibility anymore.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, I think as a parent, you know, you can get a vibe on your kid and see, like, what they're going through. And I think there was. There must have been some sort of understanding that this is a real struggle for my son here and he at least has an alternative path, which maybe is not one that I agree with or that scares me as a parent. But God bless my parents. They both, you know, reluctantly, I think, against their better judgment, supported an alternative.

[David Jacoby]

My father didn't speak to me for a while when I was in college, like, because like you keep in mind, he comes in and he's in exile and all he's trying to do is make sure that I get to a safe path. Engineering seems like a safe path. And I tell him I want to be a writer when I am. And so I got a lot of silence after that. It wasn't a lot of support and I wasn't strong enough. Like you say, you're not strong, but there is absolutely strength in that age of saying, you know what? I'm not going to do what you want. My body's recoiling against this. I'm gonna go do what I want. That's absolutely grown up.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, yeah. But I will say, and I have a question though, because the 20 minutes you cut out of this interview in the beginning was a beautiful sort of discussion we were having about your father. And I wonder, when you told him that you were gonna be a writer, was there any fear on his part about you expressing ideas and being public with your thoughts?

[David Jacoby]

That sounds good, but it was just. Who's going to pay you to do that?

[Max Greenfield]

Right?

[David Jacoby]

I came to this country, sacrificed everything so that you can go to a private school. You need to be an engineer. You need to do something that's serious. So your heart sending you or your fear you're classifying as fear is chasing the arts. You felt like you had to do something creative.

[Max Greenfield]

I think there was a lack of understanding too. Cause my father was and very successful, but was in finance. And so.

[David Jacoby]

It'S a different brain.

[Max Greenfield]

The arts were not, you know, a part of his experience.

[David Jacoby]

Well, the arts. My father's an engineer, he's coming from Cuba. The expression's not an expression's not a thing, nevermind the arts.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, yeah, he actually. So my dad worked, he was in the finance department at several different record labels. So he would work with artists, musicians, and they would come in, you know, they'd ask him for money because we're like, we need to do this. And. And I remember he find his last job was at Warner brothers records. And KRS1 was like, do you remember KRS1?

[David Jacoby]

You were so eager to have the recognition in my eyes that said yes, I know.

[Max Greenfield]

For a second I was like, maybe this one's over.

[David Jacoby]

No, we're together here, we're together here. You're A little young for this, it feels like.

[Max Greenfield]

But no, KRS1 came in and we're from New York, so KRS1 came in and he was working at Warner Brothers at the time, and he was, I think, heading up their hip hop label. And he was having, like, this discussion with my father. My father comes in, he's like. And I walked in and he's like, max, Max, come in. He goes, I'd like you to introduce. You don't have to introduce me to anybody. And then Garrison is having, like, this, like, intense conversation with my father, but a good one turns around and then immediately realizes, like, oh, this kid knows my music a little bit. And then gives me like a few bars from some song. And I was just like, oh, my God. And my dad was like, okay, please, can we continue this? But. So he had experience with artists and that side of the. What we do and being in it. But I also think he was very aware of how difficult it was. And I think you don't want to see, as a parent myself, you don't want to see your children in harm's way or struggle or anything, but, you know, it takes a lot of love, and it did on his part and my mother's part for them to sort of put that aside and at least understand that they really didn't have a choice in this.

[David Jacoby]

So what did the climb look like after that, though? Because you came to success pretty early, didn't you?

[Max Greenfield]

No, no. There was 10 years of. There was 10, 11, actually. There's more than that. It was about 12 years of really just slamming my head into a wall, probably both literally, unfavorably. It was a tough. It was a tough run. It was a really challenging run.

[David Jacoby]

So hold on. So give it up. So you've got these dreams that everyone here has. Right?

[Max Greenfield]

Right.

[David Jacoby]

And you don't have any of the disciplines that you. That what that would be learned traditionally in school, but you don't necessarily need them for what it is that you're trying to do. But you also don't know very much about what you're doing.

[Max Greenfield]

Right, right. But I had some wonderful teachers who. Who were able to show me how to do this, showed me who to look at, who did this best, and really started to study what it is. I feel like I do now. And by the way, I was attracted to all the people who are nowhere near doing the things that I ended up doing. But I felt like I was on a path and learning and just totally inspired and had moments, because you don't always have these, like. And especially with acting, it's like, you know, you're up on. It's always like, this. This didn't go well, or that. That felt weird. And every once in a while, you get a moment where you. Especially early on, where, like, it drops in and it works, and you go.

[David Jacoby]

Whoa, this is why I'm doing it. This is what I'm chasing. Yeah.

[Max Greenfield]

And, like, that's it. And I was totally out of my head, and I wasn't thinking about the thing. And I did enough work where you drop into it and you're in it, and it's great. And so it gave me enough fuel to be like, this is what I want.

[David Jacoby]

But that's all you need for learning, right? This is the learning that you want, where you're inspired to do it. Don't have me learn the way that you teach everybody else.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, also, I just never was. I never had that experience with anything else in my life where I was like, I want to do this. This fills me in a way that this connects with me in a way that nothing else does. And so went out and chased it as hard as I could, and, you know, was fortunate, I guess, for a while. Probably, like, in my mid-20s, where I started to actually audition for things. And there was a run towards the end of my twenties where I was just getting really close on everything where it would be, like, down to me and another guy or just the producers would be like, we only want him. And it just kept happening over and over and over and over again, but not working out.

[David Jacoby]

But 10 to 12 years, you're just getting bit parts, or you're not even getting bit parts.

[Max Greenfield]

A few bit parts here and there, and then just never connecting on anything that felt, you know, substantial or real. Like, you never. You want to be a part of the show as opposed to, you know, you come in for a day on the show, and I was doing, like, a day here and there, a few days here and there, and had some, like, really wonderful advocates early on, but it just doesn't. It didn't feel like it was ever gonna click.

[Jeremy]

Hey, Chris.

[Max Greenfield]

Hey, Jeremy.

[Jeremy]

I've got kind of an open secret, but I. But I want to tell you what it is here, because Mike's not here right now.

[Max Greenfield]

You better whisper.

[Chris]

I really like it when the Hurricanes lose, and it gives me a reason to celebrate when I'm watching college football.

[Max Greenfield]

Let's.

[Chris]

Let's open a Miller Light and cheers. Yeah. Do you know exactly that's what I was gonna ask you? Do you know how I do that? There's nothing quite like it. It's really a spectacular thing to have for your college football Sunday.

[Max Greenfield]

It's so good. Game day.

[Chris]

It's different. With Miller Light in your hand, you don't have to whisper the whole time. I can't stop.

[Jeremy]

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[Max Greenfield]

I'm looking across the room.

[Jeremy]

I like the way that you flirt with Miller Lite.

[Max Greenfield]

I mean, it looks, look at.

[Jeremy]

It looks great.

[Max Greenfield]

It's looking at me. You want to know why I'm looking at it? It's looking at me.

[Jeremy]

It's probably because it's just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. It's the original light beer since 1975, which means it's that Bob Ryan age. Still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite, great taste, 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com beach to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Chris]

Miller Lite. I want you in me.

[Jeremy]

The holidays really stress me out. I try to be a really good gift giver. And when you get toward this time of year, you keep thinking, oh, I have enough time. And overall, really, the holidays are stressful, but especially if you run a business. I see what you guys go through. It's like one minute you're planning a sale, next minute your website's crashing, your inventory's off and someone's dming you a discount code that expired in 2022. It's total chaos. That's why you need Shopify. It takes that holiday madness and turns it into. Shopify powers millions of businesses. We're talking everyone from Mattel and Gymshark to the folks just getting started this Black Friday. You don't have to be a tech genius either. Shopify's got thousands of ready made templates, AI tools that write your product descriptions, even polish your photos, and built in marketing tools to cut through the holiday noise. And that purple shop pay button, that's a secret sauce. This Black Friday. Join the thousands of new entrepreneurs hearing for the first time with Shopify. Sign up for your free trial [e-mail] batard that's shopify.com batard b a t a r d. Go to shopify.com petard and make this Black Friday one to remember.

[David Jacoby]

So a decade of on the side. You're also working in a retirement home or you're also doing spin classes. You're teaching spin classes.

[Max Greenfield]

There was a lot of jobs. There was okay, but.

[David Jacoby]

And a lot of bad jobs or a lot of okay jobs or a lot of jobs that you were like, okay, I want to make sure that I get out of doing this job. I need to stop doubting and have some success.

[Max Greenfield]

Uh, I was kind of messing around for a really long time. The spin classes were great because it was my friend Andrea's gym, and she allowed me to use the gym for free if I taught the spin classes. So I didn't even get paid for those. But I was like, she let me come to the gym.

[David Jacoby]

Okay, so it wasn't even work. You were just. She let me come to the gym. So it's not a job. You're still not earning money. The retirement home, the selling of farm. The selling of drugs to old people, that was a really good job.

[Max Greenfield]

That was not selling drugs to old people.

[David Jacoby]

That was delivering them pharmaceuticals in a retirement home. You were running an opioid game on old people, right? You were addicting old people, too.

[Max Greenfield]

I was not aware that they were opioids. It was a box, and I would take that. It may not have been opioids. I don't know what it was.

[David Jacoby]

Okay, you don't know. It was a box. And that's the end of your liabilities.

[Max Greenfield]

I worked for the delivery service. Oh, man. You'd end up in these.

[David Jacoby]

God, tell me. I want to hear about the retirement home. So you're drifting. You're dreaming of acting, and you're drifting through retirement homes with a box of pills.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, so most actors get jobs as waiters, but I was too scared to be a waiter because I didn't think I could remember people's orders. And I just thought the environment was too stressful for me, and I needed to just be on my own. And so I had gotten a job, gotten a job, and I was like, I can drive. And so I got this job delivering pharmaceuticals to old age homes. And you would go to, like, you know, some warehouse where they go, okay, this is going to such and such. And they give you the boxes, and you put them in your car, and then you drive them out to, like, you know, Oxnard or whatever, where there's an old age home, and you Would deliver these forms and they'd have signed for it and whatever. But some of these homes, it was a really eye opening experience.

[David Jacoby]

Just, I mean, that's gonna be sad. Sure. It's gonna be hard that you're gonna be surrounded by mortality and age and sickness. No, this sounds like not a great job.

[Max Greenfield]

It was so awful. And then at some point I was like, this is too intense for me. I can't go into another old age home. But the same company referred me then to a different company which was at that time called the Go between, which doesn't exist anymore, but it was like for everybody in the business. And so if an agency had like a package that they had to deliver to Brad Pitt, they would give you like a pack, you'd go to the agency, pick it up, and then you'd drive it over to Brad Pitt. And so that was really fun, but also super depressing too. Cause you were like, I was like driving to all these places and a part of this world that I so badly wanted to be in. And I was like, I'm just. I'm dropping off this. I'm dropping off the pancakes.

[David Jacoby]

So the closest you're getting to the fragrance of Brad Pitt is dropping off a pharmaceutical bag to his assistant.

[Max Greenfield]

I did have to drop off. He was dating Jennifer Aniston at the time. And they had like, they had some sort of alias name on there, but somebody at the company was like, hey, man, that's Brad and Jen's house. And I was like, oh, shit, this is.

[David Jacoby]

This is just terrible. So this is how you spend 10 to 12 years. 10 to 12 years, not 10 to 12 years slumming around the gutters of Hollywood trying to figure it out. I disrespected you by saying you came to success pretty early. You're like, no, it was shitty. For 12 years.

[Max Greenfield]

It was. It was shitty. And there was personal issues that I was trying to deal with. And I was able to sort of find some sort of.

[David Jacoby]

You were a child when you got to Hollywood, right? You're a bit of a little reckless, immature, whatever. You want to live a Hollywood life, but you are not an adult yet.

[Max Greenfield]

I don't know that I wanted to live a Hollywood life, but I don't truly know what I wanted. I think now with, you know, I wanted to be doing what I'm doing now and have been doing for the last couple years, which is working and doing what I love. And I just, I wasn't able to. I didn't know what that was yet. And I Bought. And I also, like, for sure wasn't capable of doing that when I was that age. And then, you know, what really happened was I had met my wife, and she had gotten pregnant with our first child, Lily, our daughter. And I was running around on audition to auditions, and I thought, I don't want to be the guy who's like, you know, bringing the car seat into an audition. Be like, listen, man, I'm just gonna, like, my voice is probably. I just don't want to make baby. But, like, I can obviously do this at a higher volume. It just felt like a very selfish. It felt like a selfish choice at that point to put this career ahead of what was so obviously now important. And I thought, I've got to try to find employment elsewhere. And so I really started looking, and luckily no one hired me.

[David Jacoby]

Oh, so you were looking to quit?

[Max Greenfield]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was looking at other. But I had no education and no experience, and I couldn't go back to selling for.

[David Jacoby]

Oh, so you were that close to quitting? You have a child you don't know. You need to make a good living to raise the child. Your wife is a casting director as well, right? So she's from the business, and she's telling you, go find a different job. Or she's encouraging.

[Max Greenfield]

No, she, you know, she has her own story. She just had a beautiful book that came out last year called We've Decided to Go in a Different Direction.

[David Jacoby]

I thought, by the way, when I researched this, they told me that your relationship has covered a lot in there. And I'm like, what an odd title for happily married people to have a book about their relationship. We've decided to go in a different direction. And then I realized it was just about.

[Max Greenfield]

I was promoting it at one point and had a conversation just like this before it came out. And I was like, the book is great. It's called We've Decided. And they said, is it about your divorce? I go, we're not divorced. But it's about her losing her job at the beginning of the pandemic and her father at the end of the pandemic. And she goes back and forth between those. Those are sort of like the goalposts of the story. But there's a lot of. She pulls our relationship into it. I think it's the best book I've ever read, and I'm not very good at reading, but she did this beautiful job on the book, but. So she had lost. She was at the wb, the original wb, for forever, and was a casting Executive there and then eventually moved. And then when the WB exploded or the cw, whatever it was, it took her a while to get back on her feet and find a new job. And it was sort of around the same time I was looking for work.

[David Jacoby]

Oh, shit. So this is real turmoil. Like, you've got the fear of responsibility, a child, when both of you are in total career upheaval.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, she. Yes, yes, we. Tess was pregnant, and we both didn't really have work, and we. And it was only a few, literally within the same week.

[David Jacoby]

That's Gallo's humor. You laughing at that, right?

[Jeremy]

Yes.

[David Jacoby]

You're laughing at how terrifying it would be to be bringing a child into the world with neither one of you having real work or feeling like. Feeling you're lost at sea. I occupationally.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes. I remember going to. I remember going to a doctor's appointment with her and having to pay for the doctor. And this is while we were trying to figure out if we were gonna try to have a child. And I remember thinking, like, paying the bill and going. And I didn't tell her we were married at the time, but I was like, I think I have about $240 left in bank account.

[David Jacoby]

Oh, wow, that's lonely.

[Max Greenfield]

I was like, man, maybe we put the. Put the kid thing off.

[David Jacoby]

Put it on layaway. Put the child on layaway.

[Max Greenfield]

But, yeah, but anyway, so she had. Within the same week that we had found out Tess was pregnant, she found out she was being hired at Fox as a casting executive. And so, like, that was a big deal. And we really wanted to. I really wanted to allow her to have that experience fully, because the first nine months of, you know, that experience for her was she was pregnant. And, you know, and it only progressed and got more intense, the pregnancy, and took her sort of focus off the job. And then once Lily was born, I was like, go do it. You be there. I'll take care of her, of our child. It's not like I'm working.

[David Jacoby]

Oh. But this part is hard to confront, though. Now you're making the decision, and you're at the crossroads of the abyss. On I don't want to be the man who brings the baby carriage to the audition. So do I need to let go of my dreams?

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. And at that point, I think what was interesting about it was I was like, oh, I don't know that my dreams were. I don't know that my dreams were ever gonna fulfill me in the way that this child has. Those all seem futile now.

[David Jacoby]

Nice.

[Max Greenfield]

What a lovely thing to See, and so I. Yeah. And I sort of was like, oh, this other thing is not that important. And so I started to look for employment elsewhere. And meanwhile, Tess was having this incredible experience at work and really shining. And it was probably because of that shift in perspective that I was able to approach what I was doing in a different way. And then was very lucky a New girl came out.

[David Jacoby]

Approach it in a different way how? You were just sort of, come what may. My life has been altered now. I have different priorities.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, I don't need this. I don't need this job anymore. I don't need this. This thing anymore. And I'm only doing it. And really with that one, specifically with New Girl, it was written so well. Liz Meriwether, who wrote the pilot, who created the series and wrote most of the episodes, she's such a phenomenal writer. And that material was so good. And I thought, well, I'm surely never gonna get this. But I wanted to just perform the material that they had given me. And so I just took the joy of doing that. And then the next thing you know, they were like, you're the guy we want to hire. And then I thought, well, I'll never get it. And, you know, the rest sort of.

[David Jacoby]

And does that. You would qualify that as your big break?

[Max Greenfield]

Oh, for sure. Without question.

[David Jacoby]

So. But. So everything before that is hustle, grind, hope, but not feel like you're actually making it. I'm coming in second place all the time. And if New Girl doesn't happen, you're probably not long for the job.

[Max Greenfield]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, that was it. I was really done. There was a. Yeah, I was for sure done. I almost didn't want to do it anymore. And then everything shifted.

[David Jacoby]

Because being a dad changed you that much? Instantaneously.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. I was, like, kind of embarrassed. I sort of had to look at this. I was like, I don't want to be. I don't want to be doing this anymore. I don't want to be run. I don't. This feels self. It felt selfish to me.

[David Jacoby]

Small and selfish, comparatively.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't want to participate in that anymore. I was like, let me find a way to. And again, not only as a parent, but as a husband to my wife who was doing so well. I was like, I can be of service to our family in a much different way and more effective way than running around and doing this thing.

[David Jacoby]

So you don't then graduate to what many people graduate to with what is perceived as success, which is you neglect Family in pursuit of fame, glory, money, and vanity.

[Max Greenfield]

That was not my experience. I did not choose that.

[David Jacoby]

But I'm saying that many people in this field have to choose themselves selfishly, often with an imbalance that neglects family. Right. And the conquering hunt of, like, this is a cutthroat business. Like, it's really. It's really hard to succeed.

[Max Greenfield]

It's very hard. And I think people are put in that position to make really challenging. If you're lucky enough to have those challenging decisions to make, where am I? And I think you always have them. But it's really. Some of them are, to a great extent, am I gonna leave my family and go run after this thing? And you get to sort of do the calculus on it of how much is this gonna affect my family? How long am I gonna be away?

[David Jacoby]

How.

[Max Greenfield]

And so, you know, you put all that into the.

[David Jacoby]

So you've arrived at a life perspective now that has put the proper balance, or you've always been there between career and family.

[Max Greenfield]

At that moment. Yeah. And I think leading up to that moment, I think I always had. When I decided that I was done, it really. It felt very clear to me what was important in my life. And since New Girl, and there's been some incredible moments since then. I'd say for the very most part, it has felt very clear to me, like, what my priorities are and what's important.

[David Jacoby]

But you can't believe you're here. Like, that's not. You don't feel like an imposter. You don't feel like it's unearned. You don't feel like you've worked hard enough to.

[Max Greenfield]

Now I just can't believe it continues. And some of the places that, like, it's taken me, it's been. It's been what? None of this has been planned well.

[David Jacoby]

Because you've worked well. What do you mean, though? You're working for 12 years. Perhaps it doesn't have the structure or scaffolding that you want, but you're working for 12 years planning something. Planning to get to something.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, I don't know. Did you have a plan?

[David Jacoby]

I was only good at one thing. I was writing. And so they told me in high school I was good at writing. I didn't have a lot of confidence elsewhere. That seemed like a fun and different thing. And so that was the thing. I didn't like science. I didn't like math. I was decent at school. I was good at school because I was responsible. But the act of learning wasn't. I liked writing, and I was told I was good at it. And so I kept doing that.

[Max Greenfield]

Right.

[David Jacoby]

And then along the path, there were lonely outposts on career achievement where I'm like, I need to do something different here that's more communal because this place that's supposed to be the mountaintop is still a little bit empty. It's not. It's not what I imagined it was going to be. Writing is lonely. I'm not having interactions with people. I'm creating things, but it's just obsessive compulsive, and it's not a great process. So then I just. I start doing other things that are. That have more laughter in them. Even the radio show I was doing, I was. I did for 10 years a radio show by myself and didn't realize while I was doing it because I'm in my own head and in my own voice, I was never laughing. Because if you're doing a show by yourself, you're not. You're not quite so crazy. Unless you're Colin Cowherd that you're going to. You're going to. That you're going to be making yourself laugh. And so, I mean, I imagine the way that you are built, you're finding yourself either in places or choosing places where you're gonna make sure you're laughing.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, for sure. But again, to go back to what we were saying, it felt like the plan was. Plan may be the wrong word. It's. I have this. I feel this pull to start writing, and then all of a sudden it feels like I need. Like, oh, this wasn't fully it. And there have been moments where it's. It. But it's run its course. And now I feel lonely and I want to do it in a different way. And now I feel pulled to do something else. So I don't know that, like, the plan is maybe the wrong word, but it's where I've been pulled and where I've ended up that has been surprising. And I think, just like, you know, we were talking about ending up doing that beautiful show on ESPN that you had with. With your whole family, with your dad and. And that whole group. When you talk about being lonely, you had such a wonderful group on that show and all the wonderful characters, and it was such a familial thing. And so to go from a place where you were to realize, oh, what I want is community and to laugh and to laugh within a group and be a part of.

[David Jacoby]

But all of that, when you phrase it that way, none of that is really planned. Right. These are opportunities that present themselves and then you get pulled. But I did not plan to have a television show with my father on espn. That's something that sort of happened.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, exactly. And so these things sort of happen, and. And it is. Until you sort of maybe settle into that and become really aware and conscious of where you are and experience it. It's at that point that you say to yourself, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm here. And there's a tremendous gratitude that comes with that.

[David Jacoby]

Well, where have you felt it the most? Like, if I say to you, oh, my gosh. And I will tell you that I feel those moments all the time. I'm not kidding you, that I can say I felt it walk over here. Just the idea.

[Max Greenfield]

So lucky.

[David Jacoby]

My parents are Cuban exiles who would have had no access to the idea of creating things artfully as a expression of freedom to walk down the Sunset Strip in order to come over here so that I could be brought interesting people who are stimulating from the world of entertainment. Like, what fills me with every step is gratitude because I didn't plan this. Like, this is something that just grew out of what I kept feeding like a cauldron that I kept feeding where I could follow my interests.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, yeah. And it's so beautiful that you can have those moments that you're aware enough to be able to sort of. You're aware enough of what's happening and within yourself to understand that, like, oh, I'm really feeling this. And let me not, like, throw it away and just disregard it.

[David Jacoby]

Well, you can walk past joy. You can walk right past it without noticing it.

[Max Greenfield]

I know it. You can walk past gratitude. You can walk past anything, and it's being able to stop and really experience it and let it pass through you. So you're able to experience the next thing is where. That's the place I try to live in.

[David Jacoby]

Well, but where did you learn the idea of listening to the pull? Like, what you were doing physically there is. You turned a pull into a claw and then sort of made it. I didn't have a choice. I got yanked in this direction by the nose. I don't even know enough to have my fear, not follow it. Like, I just clearly have to go there. I feel it in my innards.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, yeah. And that's sort of where I've. That's been since I. Since I started working and since my wife and I started our family. That's been, for the most part, that pull has been. When that pull comes, it's been pretty clear. And it's when I start to pull myself that I get myself in a lot of trouble.

[David Jacoby]

Things you think you want or things.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, yeah. I have some ideas that are really.

[David Jacoby]

They immediately get you. So, oh, I'm a big Hollywood star. Let me see if I can just birth this. And then someone tells you it's a bad idea. Who's most likely to do that? Is it Tess?

[Max Greenfield]

Oh, no, no, no. I usually have to experience it.

[David Jacoby]

Oh, you have to go and fail.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. Or experience real anguish and go, why does this hurt so bad? And it's like, oh, this was your idea, you moron.

[David Jacoby]

Why does this hurt you so bad? This is what I chose. This is the choice.

[Max Greenfield]

And it takes me a really long time to get to the bottom of this is what you chose. And once I get down to this is what I chose, then it settles and you go, oh, oh, oh, of course. So you're an idiot.

[David Jacoby]

You're not speaking spiritually to the idea of. When I listen to the universe, things work out well. When I think I'm in control, it's when they fall apart 100%. Really? So you prefer to walk through life pretending like you don't know anything or self deprecating about. Like, I don't belong here. I don't read books, but oh, and I also get to do the things that I want professionally.

[Max Greenfield]

I understand what you're saying. I get like the self deprecating thing and everything. Maybe again, maybe it's the wrong way to articulate it, but it's the thing that I enjoy most in life and which I try to stay connected to always. I love that we're having this conversation. It's really nice. I didn't think we were going to go down this route, but the thing that I love the most in life is discovery. And it's again, like, it can be as simple as walking down the Sunset Strip and discovering that in this moment I feel really grateful and opening that up and understanding why I'm having that feeling and again then letting it go. But like the moments that feel like discovery to me are the most fulfilling. And it's like discovering that I'm now, you know, with the books and discovering new moments as a parent and discovering new moments as a husband and discovering new moments in life, it's like, and about myself and how I react to those things and sometimes how I can better react to those things. But all of that feels like the most fulfilling part of living. And that's where I'm really That's where I'm at.

[David Jacoby]

Well, I see the smile on your face and also sort of the mischievous child in. I think of discovery and wonder as not uniquely childlike. But adulthood happens and then somewhere in there, the child in you gets killed. It doesn't seem like you've lost your enthusiasm for that, it seems. My guess is that if I was talking to your wife right now, she'd be very frustrated by some of the childlike elements that you have. But she also would love that she gets to see the child that you are because what a great thing to share with somebody who's an adult but is just delighted like a child would be about whatever has made him grateful that day.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, like. Like what we talk about, some of the fears and the other things I think really have a way of suffocating that child and suffocating the ability to have those moments of discovery. And so it's trying my best on a daily basis to sort of put that at bay so I can be open to whatever's in front of me. I had that dream again. My small business needs to hire, but I don't use LinkedIn and I hire wrong. So then I'm doing. And when I go to plug the servers in, they become sentient and they won't let us access our network unless.

[Jeremy]

We forward their chain emails and memes.

[Max Greenfield]

To more and more and more people. And then I wake up. Don't let hiring nightmares ruin your dreams. LinkedIn jobs new AI assistant finds and invites best fit candidates to apply so you can discover talent you may have missed. Post your job for [e-mail] quality.

[David Jacoby]

Start hiring today with LinkedIn.

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[David Jacoby]

Are you hard on yourself?

[Max Greenfield]

I'm trying to ease up. I've been so much better lately. Are you hard on yourself?

[David Jacoby]

Brutal. Brutal. Yeah, brutal. And it doesn't. I'm not sure it serves me anymore. Like, I'm not like, what's the what is what is or. Or that it ever served me right. If it's going to be punishing of yourself. But I've always sort of in my head rationalized that if I place my standard in such an unforgiving place for myself, then I'll meet everyone else's standards on whatever it is that I'm making.

[Max Greenfield]

Mm.

[David Jacoby]

Like, if I just. Whether it's writing or anything else like that, that's the way I've rationalized away being mean to myself. That it produces success or the. I shouldn't even say success, that it produces achievement, because achievement without happiness probably doesn't. It's probably not actually success.

[Max Greenfield]

I heard. I heard somebody say once, I really liked it. It was about sort of forgiveness. And they said something. The extent to which you judge others is the extent to which you judge yourself. And I was like, oh, God. And so I immediately stopped judging people in my life. And I was just very conscious of it. I was like, I'm not gonna do this anymore. But then I was like, I'm still judging myself on such a high level. And I'm still, again, like you said, so mean to myself. What is going on? And so I'm really. I'm really trying to be kind to myself.

[David Jacoby]

Well, the people who've been listening to this for a while know that I say that I have no greater task that I've had in therapy other than finding ways to be nicer to myself. Like to. And. Yeah. And being in a loving relationship has also helped in that someone who loves me makes me feel like the ugly parts of myself are also acceptable or the parts that I'd like to hide or keep unseen aren't unseen and are also loved.

[Max Greenfield]

And what have you discovered?

[David Jacoby]

On which part? On therapy or on the relationship and relationship.

[Max Greenfield]

The relationship to yourself. And what are the things that you do to ensure that you are kinder to yourself?

[David Jacoby]

Well, it's an awareness of being above it. When I don't know that people are constantly sort of understanding that they're being cruel to themselves. You have to be watching what it is that you're doing, Be outside of yourself, sort of observing yourself. Right. It takes a level of self awareness. I'm not. I don't know if people who are walking around the world feeling things always know that they're feeling them. Like if they know the depths of their unhappiness, if they numb themselves, if they're just sort of used to what their life experience has been. But when I have found very much over the course of, I'm going to say the last five years, losing my brother, you know, needing to be held up by people, that there are parts of joy that are a choice, that I've been my own worst enemy. Like, if I'm going to choose to punish myself, I'm gonna get in the way of my own happiness. Right. If I can't. If I can't let things go, if I can't be easier, more forgiving on myself.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. It's like. It's like discovering that I have so much power over that I'm giving myself so much power over myself.

[David Jacoby]

It's weird. It's a weird thing to discover this late in life.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Jacoby]

But what my therapist says is many people go to the grave without ever discover discovering it at all. Right.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. So. But yes, it's good. It's good to. I guess you're right. It's very good to. It's good to be aware of all of it.

[David Jacoby]

But you don't present to someone who's particularly hard on yourself. Like, I know you don't have. You don't have this kind of success. It's not an accident. You can pretend it's a happy accident. It's not an accident, Dan.

[Max Greenfield]

I'm a very good actor.

[David Jacoby]

You can't even say it with a strange face, but somewhere inside you, you must know. You must know that you're pretty good. You must know.

[Max Greenfield]

No, I do, I do, I do, I do.

[David Jacoby]

Yeah. I mean, you're working with people who are at the top end of the scale. You might not believe that you belong with them, but some part of you wants to believe he should be the actor who can compete with them.

[Max Greenfield]

Right? Well, I don't know that compete is the right word, but I think, you know, I've been really lucky, and I've been around some. Some real heavyweights, Mike Schur being one of them, and being with those folks and being able to collaborate with them and not feel like. And not feel scared enough. I mean, where it takes away from what we're trying to do and have an understanding about what they're talking about and what they're asking from you. Being in that situation and feeling like you are adding to what they're doing, that's a really good feeling.

[David Jacoby]

Well, where'd you get to that confidence, though? Because that's a rare feeling as well. Usually the only way to get there is to stack successes atop each other.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, I go in terrified. So for, like, Mike Show.

[David Jacoby]

Ted Danson's an accomplished actor.

[Max Greenfield]

Ted Danson is an accomplished actor who's.

[David Jacoby]

Worked with Mike Shore a lot.

[Max Greenfield]

So Ted and I had spent a little time during the previous summer together. So Ted was not. I wasn't terrified of Ted and having. Or getting to know him. I was like, oh, this is the nicest man on earth.

[David Jacoby]

Sure.

[Max Greenfield]

I was a little scared of. And Mike, who I've known forever, going in to work with Mike. I know that Mike is one of the rare breeds of humans who work in our industry who. So when you Usually you have someone who writes and creates a show, and then sometimes that person, I mean, and it would make sense, isn't great at running the show. And that means producing it and putting it all together and doing it. Sometimes that person just. Sometimes they feel like it's best for that person just to write the show. And then they bring in someone called a showrunner. Okay. Very rarely you get somebody who's excellent at both. Mike is one of those people. And so it's like having a general manager who is also coaching the team and has just put together a dynasty and understands it in a way that is beyond anything you could ever comprehend. And so when you're going into it, you're like, like, okay, it's clear who's in charge here. All I have to do is think about, like, what it is that I have, like, this little piece that I'm playing in it, and how do I best serve what he's trying to do over there.

[David Jacoby]

I don't think anybody has any idea, though, what you're talking about when you're describing the thicket of what it takes to make an excellent television show, to showrun to be. When you're trying to articulate what is the genius of making Parks and Rec or the Office or any of these things. Yeah, I don't think people understand. They might like Mike Schur's work, but they don't understand the number of different qualities that someone like that has to have, including being a fundamentally decent human being. So that all the people who work with him want to make sure that they're giving their maximum effort to not disappoint him, because his standard is going to be as high as any of your standards.

[Max Greenfield]

Yes. And so to give some sort of context, there's maybe four people who do it at the top, top level, and Mike is one of them. And so.

[David Jacoby]

And his wife, by the way, it's not like jj.

[Max Greenfield]

JJ was a writer on New Girl, and that's how we met and then became close with Mike later. And then our daughters were really close.

[David Jacoby]

You really muttered that one under your breath. You gave your mic bona Fides. And then you're. And our daughters are really close too. You didn't put your heart in.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, that really was like.

[David Jacoby]

That felt like you were bragging a little bit.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, it's not that much. If I open up that we then go for another 30 minutes, I'm like.

[David Jacoby]

No, I don't want to hear, no, I don't want to hear any of that.

[Max Greenfield]

That's why I did it. But so anyway, so I show up on the first day and usually this has been my experience as I now understand it. I show up, I've done everything I, I can do or I think that might benefit me when I'm actually in it. And the first day is usually me getting punched in the face as hard as I can. And so we were doing this. Mike had set up. Mike was directing the first episode of this season and it was my first day and he had set up. I didn't realize how intricate he was going to be with the camera. And he was really trying to. He's really like, he did some beautiful stuff with this season and to create suspense with the mystery. And you know, Ted's now just like a full on detective. And so he was doing this big long shot where the camera's passing through, I want to say, maybe 10 different characters. And he gets past like two or three people. It like bends around Gary Cole and then passes me. I have one line and then it bends around a corner. And this is always the worst case scenario because you're like, like if you're the idiot who messes this up. The one line, the one line.

[David Jacoby]

It's like in a CONGA Line of 10, he's giving you an easy job.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah, but you are such a small part of this. But if you screw it up, we have to do the whole thing again. And so the first take, we do it, he's moving, the camera's moving around, it gets to me and I fully muff my line. And I, by the way, if I could have, if I could have bet in Vegas, if that was gonna happen, I would 100% put it against me. And so much so that. And when it happened, I started to laugh. But it also, you could have like, it was like, I mean, I got the words out.

[David Jacoby]

You could have used it.

[Max Greenfield]

You could have used it. So they do the whole thing. Cut. Mike is giving notes to everybody. He's like, you know, he's got, there's 10 people. He's 1, 2, 3. He passes me and he goes. First take, really.

[David Jacoby]

So that's the experience. The experience is you're going to take the beating the first day, get it over with.

[Max Greenfield]

I've got to get a sense of what's going on. And within that, I know that I'm gonna feel lost. And that's okay, as long as I don't get fired.

[David Jacoby]

Right?

[Max Greenfield]

And so we did. I started to pick up what was going on. Next thing you know, we're doing a scene. David Stratharan, who's so brilliant in the show this year, is doing a thing out in the audience and they're on his coverage first. And he's looking up at me giving this like, insane speech. I play the president of the university who's wildly full of shit. And David, who plays this like, fluffy, as he would describe it, fluffy professor is looking at me and keeps going. I just. This man is the worst. And I go, oh, I now know exactly what I need to be. I need to be the worst version of what that guy thinks. And by the way, David Strathearn's a much better actor than I am, so. But now you've got yourself, you got.

[David Jacoby]

Motivation, you've got your thing. You know exactly who you are.

[Max Greenfield]

I know what we're doing now. And from that point forward, we just ran.

[David Jacoby]

It's a playground after that, right? Like you can just play to all your worst. All. All of the best parts of acting that allow you to turn up the volume on all those bad parts that are funny.

[Max Greenfield]

Yeah. And Mike is so brilliant and so wonderful and as you say, a wonderful human being, but also very funny and has a little bit of the childlike, you know, mischievous part of himself too. But he doesn't show it often because he's gotta be the adult in the room. And so what I would like to. What I start to do on the show is sort of needle him and go, mike, what if we did this? And he would go, please don't.

[David Jacoby]

Just terrible ideas. You're just giving him bad ideas, telling him how to do his job.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, no, because it's all within this thing that he's created. So it's not. It's not outside of what he's making, it's very much inside of it. And he's just going, when he says, please don't do that, there's a little part of him that's saying, or just try it to see what it looks like. Cuz I'll laugh, right? Like, don't do it. Cuz I know I won't use it. But if you do it, I'm definitely Gonna laugh, right?

[David Jacoby]

Okay, you guys are playing some. So you guys.

[Max Greenfield]

It became a full playground. And there's stuff in the show that. That I. There's stuff this year that I may or may not have begged him to let me do, which he then reluctantly allowed me to do. One of the things ended up in the show. And we had dinner the other night, and he was like. We got to, like, the ninth cut of this episode. And he and Morgan, who he produces, Sackett, who he produces the show with, they looked at each other and he. He goes, how did he get this in?

[David Jacoby]

Is this the most fun you've had doing something? Like, how does this compare in terms of the doing of things? Because some of these things can be merciless. They can seem like they might be fun and then not be fun, even with success.

[Max Greenfield]

Sure. There's been a lot of stuff that has been a drag. I'd say, for the most part. I'd say 90% of the jobs I've been on have been so much fun. This was especially great because you have a prior relationship with someone who you love, who you know is such a wonderful person, and you all of a sudden find yourself in a working environment with them. You're like, oh, I hope this doesn't take away from our friendship. Or if this goes bad, I hope this doesn't affect us in any way. And once we sort of discovered, oh, we like what each other, like, he. I shouldn't say we like. As soon as we figured out the dynamic and Mike was into what I was doing and we had an agreement of like, oh, this is going to work throughout, and it then becoming so much fun. I mean, I've never felt closer to him, and it only enhanced our relationship. And that, to me, was the best part, the experience that would have been.

[David Jacoby]

Moving if I hadn't been distracted by the sheer number of burps that you were stifling while you told that stuff. Was I. You're lacking in self awareness. You were not aware they were not burps.

[Max Greenfield]

Maybe they were just like saliva things.

[David Jacoby]

No, it was a recurring. It was a recurring stifling of burps that was accompanying some really genuine, moving articulation of your love of Mike Shore and his talent. A Man on the Inside is the name of the show. It is now streaming on Netflix. It was delightful to talk to you. Thank you for spending the time with me.

[Max Greenfield]

Really wonderful. I was so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

[David Jacoby]

You didn't ask me any questions.

[Max Greenfield]

I tried. You really sent us off on a path.

[David Jacoby]

See, I do that, though. It's the way that I avoid all intimacy. I know I'm right. It's such a good.

[Max Greenfield]

You were in such a good, good.

[David Jacoby]

Zone before we started. If we were to air the. What happened beforehand that betrays secrets that my father would never want told. Yes, that would have been. That would have been good content. Thank you, sir. Appreciate the time.

[Max Greenfield]

Thank you. I really appreciate it, man.

[Jeremy]

Hey, Chris.

[Max Greenfield]

Hey, Jeremy.

[Jeremy]

I've got kind of an open secret, but. But I want to tell you what it is here because Mike's not here right now.

[Max Greenfield]

Well, you better whisper.

[Chris]

I really like it when the Hurricanes lose. And it gives me a reason to celebrate when I'm watching college football.

[Max Greenfield]

Let's.

[Chris]

Let's open a Miller Light and cheers. Yeah, Dune. Exactly. That's what I was gonna ask you. Do you know how I do that? There's nothing quite like it. It's really a spectacular thing to have for your college football Sunday.

[Max Greenfield]

It's so game day. It's different.

[Chris]

With Miller Light in your hand, you don't have to whisper the whole time. I can't stop.

[Jeremy]

From jaw dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks, it's the beard that's been there for every moment. 50 years of great taste, simple ingredients, and that iconic golden color that you can spot from across the room. I see one right now.

[Max Greenfield]

I'm looking across the room.

[Jeremy]

I like the way that you flirt with Miller Light.

[Max Greenfield]

I mean, it looks.

[Jeremy]

Look at. It looks great.

[Max Greenfield]

It's looking at me. You want to know why I'm looking at it? It's looking at me.

[Jeremy]

It's probably because it's just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. It's the original light beer since 1975, which means it's that Bob Ryan age still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com beach to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Chris]

Miller Lite. I want you and me.