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The Dan Le Batard Show
South Beach Sessions - Napheesa Collier
01:07:11
Napheesa Collier, WNBA star and co-founder of the Unrivaled women's basketball league, shares with Dan Le Batard how she became so competitive, questioning an early retirement after becoming a Mom, and why she's stronger this year after the angering loss to the New York Liberty.
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- [00:01]
Nafeesa Collier
Wow. What's up? I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes.
- [00:05]
Unknown
You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your wall's eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes.
- [00:12]
Nafeesa Collier
They made it easy. Transparent terms, customizable. Down and monthly. Didn't even have to do any paperwork.
- [00:17]
Unknown
Wow.
- [00:18]
Nafeesa Collier
Mm. Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner?
- [00:22]
Unknown
Options finance your car with Carvana and experience total control. Financing subject to credit approval.
- [00:31]
Daredevil is born again on Disney plus. My name is Matthew Murdoch. I'm a lawyer.
- [00:37]
Nafeesa Collier
Exactly what kind of a lawyer are you?
- [00:40]
Unknown
A really good one. Critics everywhere agree it's the best Marvel television series. Gritty, intense, and elevated, it's Daredevil at his best. If you step out of line, I will be there. Marvel Television's Daredevil, Born again now streaming only on Disney plus. Welcome to South Beach Sessions. We've got someone with us today. She's unrivaled in a lot of different ways. She wins, right? She's a four time WNBA all star. She's a two time Olympic gold medalist. She's an NCAA champion, and she just won one on one. And unrivaled a league she created. Nafeesa Call, you're with us. Thank you for being with us. A league she created. I don't know in the list of things that I just said, what you're proudest of, but I'll give you the chance to answer for yourself. And thank you for joining us.
- [01:49]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, thanks for having me. That's definitely something I'm proud of. Just because obviously all the work that's gone into it, you know, years of just planning this and, you know, Stewie and I just like. From having it be a seed of an idea to having it turn into an entire league is just like a crazy thought. Something I never would have thought or dreamed of, you know, growing up or in college or even a couple of years ago. So it's been really cool to kind of see the process of that.
- [02:13]
Unknown
Well, how did it come together? This is with your husband Alex. That must present its own set of challenges.
- [02:19]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, well, Alex is. I mean, he's like one of the smartest business people ever that I've ever met. So he actually had a business. He had a business background before that. But from Stewie and I side, we both had been in the league for several years by the time we started thinking of this. And through that, you kind of just see the holes of, like, what's working what's not. And for a lot of WNBA players, they've been having to go overseas for years to supplement the income because we make money for, you know, six months out of the year. So. So with that, a lot of people don't realize that we make most of our money off the court. So, like, 90% of the money I make is off the court. And so you have to be able to activate with brands. Like, brand building is a huge part of our business. When you're overseas, you're essentially going dark for six months out of the year, so you can't activate with the brands. You're losing money, you're away from your family, out of your home country, missing holidays. And then on the flip side, you still have to get better at basketball. So staying at home and training is not the same as playing. So kind of through all those things, we came up with unrivaled. And then also just the explosion that is happening in women's sports right now, you see it with the college game and how the WNBA and just all sports are exploding, and it feels like everyone is capitalizing off of that except for the people, the women who are playing. And so that's where we really wanted to get into the salaries that we're paying the players and having equity in the league, really creating that generational wealth.
- [03:38]
Unknown
I want to talk to you about all of that, and Brianna Stewart is the one you were mentioning that you partnered with. I want to talk about how all of that came together. But when you look along the entirety of changes that are happening around women's sports, and you talk specifically of having to play overseas, you played briefly in Turkey, right?
- [04:00]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, I played in Turkey, France, and I was in Covid for 10 days before COVID hit.
- [04:04]
Unknown
Okay, so what were the difficulties in all of that stuff? Like, where. Where would you look to and say, man, this feels awfully minor league for how good I actually am at this. I shouldn't. I shouldn't have to do this outside the United States.
- [04:18]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. You know, I think being in different countries, they each pose their own problems. I mean, different laws, as you saw with, like, the Brittney Griner situation. And then specifically in Turkey, the last place I played, I brought my daughter with me. So that, like, poses a whole new set of obstacles that you have to get through. Like, so we had to bring my dad. So the money that you're spending on childcare, because she was also in daycare. So finding childcare, people that you trust, having to bring separate people over to help with that the travel with that was a nightmare because she's a Todd. And then, you know, obviously the time change with that too, and then getting them used to, like, new food. And that's a hard thing when you go to different countries. It's just a lot of little things that are outside of basketball.
- [05:02]
Unknown
You're not even talking about you stuff. You're talking about mom's stuff, you're talking about her stuff. There are plenty of problems without a child.
- [05:09]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah. I mean, without that, again, like, the time change is hard. So trying to talk to family back home, especially when you're playing in China, there's one American per team. So it's very isolating, especially if you're a person who needs to be around other people. When I was there, I was there for a short time because of COVID but, you know, I only had my translator to talk to, and she was like an English student, so she was still learning English, so it was not like we were having conversations.
- [05:35]
Unknown
Lonely, right? All of it lonely. Language problems. You can't talk to anybody.
- [05:39]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, the culture is a lot different. The food is a lot different. It's just. It's just so far away from, you know, what you are used to. So it can be definitely like a adjustment period. Were you lost in China?
- [05:53]
Unknown
Just. Yes. But in all of the places where you're finding yourself culture shocked and having to fight for money in a way that an athlete of your stature generally wouldn't have to fight for money.
- [06:05]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, I would say China was definitely the hardest place because it's so different from American culture. I actually really loved. I do love learning new cultures, though, so I really liked being in Turkey. I tried to make the best of it, like, you know, experiencing their culture, going to their different, like, museums and like, touristy things and eating the food, so making the best of it. But it's not. If I had a choice, you know, obviously I'd like to be around my family and stay in the States.
- [06:33]
Unknown
I always wonder around people as excellent as you. They kind of have to be lopsided because of the demands of staying ahead of everybody else. Do you find it hard to be life balanced around being this kind of competitive, this kind of excellent?
- [06:51]
Nafeesa Collier
It definitely is hard sometimes. I am super lucky in just the family that I have and the support that I have. My parents have been great from the very beginning. Just like basketball is not the number one thing in our lives, and I've tried to keep it that way where it's obviously a huge part of my life, especially now with unrivaled. But it's not the most important thing in my life. And I have a lot of other things that I'm interested, interested in. So I think that helps keep me grounded as well. But definitely, like, especially this season, I feel like I, you know, as a co founder, you have a lot more responsibility. So I'm doing a lot of, like, media and content things. So my parents have been texting me, like, where are you? So sometimes it is hard to kind of just like, take a breath and make sure that you're staying up with family and stuff.
- [07:31]
Unknown
Well, take me through your upbringing and take me through the roots of how you became who you became. Like, when you look at the landmarks throughout your childhood in getting to a basketball player, where are the supports, the inspirations, the obstacles?
- [07:46]
Nafeesa Collier
I think it came from my parents both played sports growing up, so we were a very, like, sports family. I mean, I was in soccer by the time I could walk. I played multiple sports, volleyball, softball. I ran track, played soccer. So we were always doing something. But my parents didn't play professionally. And they never got into that mindset of, you know, like, the crazy parents. When you're at AU tournaments and things like that, they were never like that. Like, they, school is the most important thing. Family is the most important thing. Like, sports was a privilege. You got to do that. If you were checking all the other boxes in your life. And even, you know, going into college every single summer after I was done, they're like, is this something you still want to do? So even when they saw that I could have my school paid for, that this could be something really important for our family and in our life, they. They never made me feel like I had to do this. Like, they were never living vicariously through me. Like, you kind of see a lot, unfortunately, sometimes. So I think that also gave me the confidence of I'm not living and dying by what happens on the basketball court, because my value was never. That was never like, even a thought in my mind that my value was tied to what I was doing when I was playing. So I think that I really commend my parents in that because they were going through everything for the first time, too. So, like, when I was in college, your junior year, like, a certain day, that's when all the colleges could talk to you and some of my teammates, like, college would be calling them at midnight that first night, my parents automatically said, you, you can call us on Wednesday nights. If we don't return your call, we will Call you on Thursdays. You can't call any other day of the week. So they were very locked down with that from the beginning.
- [09:16]
Unknown
I was gonna ask you about their discipline, because it sounds. That's really nice that they would give you the support and the freedom to make your own choices, but how did you become as disciplined as you are? What did they have to do with that?
- [09:32]
Nafeesa Collier
Honestly, I don't think a lot, but in the way that they're like, if you want to be good, you have to do it yourself. Like, they never made me go to the gym or anything. I think just naturally, we're such a competitive family. Like, I wanted to be the best, and if I'm not practicing, there's other people playing better than me, and I don't like that. So I think it was just like, naturally. Just everything we do is competitive, so it kind of translated over to that.
- [09:54]
Unknown
So that's why you wanted to be the best. Like, where does this come from? What did competition look like in the family? Who's throwing the board games? Like, how does that one go?
- [10:03]
Nafeesa Collier
Definitely really competitive with everything. Me and my brother, I mean, we would play all sports together. We would just. We were like cats and dogs. I mean, we'd fight over everything. Cause we're both so competitive. Our whole family is.
- [10:14]
Unknown
Tell me about the good stories that get told years later about the competition that got sideways with your brother.
- [10:20]
Nafeesa Collier
Oh, I mean, of course, you have, like, the driveway when we're playing basketball. Like, elbows, thrown punches, thrown tackles, because we both think the other is cheating. I'm taller, but he's faster, all that stuff. And then we would play football in the backyard with my dad, so he would be on whoever's on offense on their side. Like, we'd run routes and, like, I was taller than my brother for most of our life. He shot up, like, one summer, so I would just throw it over him. He'd say, that's cheating because I can't run faster than him. So just stuff like that where, you know, you're always just picking at each other.
- [10:50]
Unknown
Do you know how tough you are?
- [10:52]
Nafeesa Collier
Do I know how tough I am?
- [10:54]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [10:54]
Nafeesa Collier
I feel like I've come into that. Like, come into knowing that. And I think it just comes with the natural confidence is as you get older, you're so much sure of your. So much more assured.
- [11:03]
Unknown
If you've had a lot of success, that helps.
- [11:04]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah. Being successful helps. Yeah.
- [11:07]
Unknown
But the reason I asked about your toughness is just if you're created by the fire of competition, if you're the one in the house who wants to lose the least. Did you run races track with your brother? Like, where were you competing? In all of the spaces that are most likely to produce the fights. Basketball is most likely to produce Football.
- [11:27]
Nafeesa Collier
Contact sports. Yeah, football.
- [11:28]
Unknown
Okay, so the contact stuff. So what's the one years later that you and he can laugh about that the family still laughs about? Because it's the memorable one I have, for example, there are pictures throughout my childhood. My brother was the mischievous one. So what you'll see is a picture of me with a patch on my eye and my brother holding a stick in separate photos.
- [11:48]
Nafeesa Collier
Right.
- [11:48]
Unknown
Like, you'll see the story of our family there. Where can we see it in your family in terms of a fight that went sideways because both of you. Because you're crazy competitive.
- [11:59]
Nafeesa Collier
Oh, me and my brother still laugh about this. I don't even know if our parents know, but we were fighting in our room about something. We were, like, in the play. Playroom where all the toys were, and we were trying to have a competition. I can't remember what it was, but Kai, my brother, had just started watching, like, WWE wrestling. And so we started wrestling, and he grabbed my head and did, like, a knee. Like, he pulled my head down and hit me with his knee. I was like, what the.
- [12:24]
Unknown
Yes, that's correct. That's the correct.
- [12:25]
Nafeesa Collier
Where did that come from?
- [12:26]
Unknown
Just a wrestling move?
- [12:27]
Nafeesa Collier
Yes. I heard a crack in my skull. He's like, don't tell Mom. Don't tell Mom. I was like, give me $100 and I won't tell Mom. So we still laugh about that.
- [12:35]
Unknown
Was there a negotiation down from that, or did he have $100 to give you?
- [12:39]
Nafeesa Collier
No, he had $100. I knew he had $100.
- [12:42]
Unknown
Okay.
- [12:43]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. So you got a calculated number and.
- [12:46]
Unknown
What kind of damage was left? What was the. What did he indeed crack your skull? And the story you had to tell a lie in Exchange for the $100?
- [12:53]
Nafeesa Collier
No, I think it just rattled my brain a little bit. So I heard it on the inside. I don't even know if I had a bump. I just remember you have to, like, fake cry, you know, played up a little bit to really make him feel bad and, like, he's gonna get in.
- [13:04]
Unknown
Trouble to get the $100. Sure. You had to do that? Your parents. Where would you say the reason I'm asking you about toughness specifically is I got to 50 years old without knowing how tough I was or wasn't and doubting how tough I Was because I hadn't had it tested in any meaningful way. Where are the tests for you that you. Beyond the confidence of having successes on top of each other and the. The support of your parents? Where do you find the places that you can point to and be like, no, no, I'm pretty tough?
- [13:35]
Nafeesa Collier
I think a couple. I would say my first, like, true adversity in sport was definitely my freshman year at UConn, because Coach Gino has said a lot of times he breaks players down to build them back up. And you go into college knowing, like, I had never lifted a weight before going to college. I knew it was going to be hard physically, but mentally, I was not prepared for how hard it was going to be. Like in high school, if we were gonna do a back door, that was, like, a specific play call. We were not reading the game. And so him teaching that was the most painful process. Like, I could not remember a play to save my life. I was just, like, so anxious all the time, and it was so, so hard. I mean, I lost my starting spot middle of a game, one game. Barely played after that. And then I worked my. Like, I worked my ass off the whole summer. I was doing two days with my husband. Now. He was my trainer for a couple years before we started dating. So in two days with him, I came back feeling better than ever. And the one thing I could do my freshman year was rebound. I couldn't do anything else. Couldn't remember a play, couldn't make a basket. I could rebound. And the practice player we were playing against, he got a rebound. Coach stops practice, he's like, faisa, that's why you didn't play last year. That's why you'll never play this year, and that's why you'll never be good here. Get a rebound. I was like, cool. The one thing I could do right, but it made me into the player I am today. Like, it taught me how to read the game, how to be a smart basketball player. Because he would always say, it's funny because, you know, my freshman year, Stewie was a senior. That's when they had won four championships in a row. Never been done. And after they graduated, he's like, well, all the talent's gone, so you guys need to be smarter because we don't have any more talented basketball players. We had, like, six step NBA players on the. On the team still. But he really instilled in us a.
- [15:14]
Unknown
Bit of an asshole. Like, we could say, I understand that he's a leader and a coach and a Great spokesman, but. But he can be a bit of an asshole, I think. I think we can agree on that. I'll take your smile as confirmation. We'll leave it as a no comment.
- [15:27]
Nafeesa Collier
He's a lovable one. Yeah.
- [15:28]
Unknown
But he's really tough. And under other circumstances, some of that stuff can be toxic. But in sports, it gets filed under hardening you. And it. And it worked.
- [15:39]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, it did. I mean, it did. It taught me how to read the game. And I feel like the next hardest thing was after I had my daughter. That was, like, the hardest physically, like, rehab I've ever done. I don't talk about this a lot, but I thought I was gonna not be able to play anymore because after I had her, just the rehab after, like, my body basically retaliated. I could barely bend my knees. So I had spent the entire off season doing rehab. I wasn't even in the gym. Like, I couldn't even practice. I was just doing rehab the whole time. And that was just really hard because I had no plan after basketball. Like, this had been my whole life, and I was, like, so young, so I thought I had so many years left to play. And then I have, like, this newborn baby that it's my first kid. I'm trying to navigate that. My life looks totally different. So it was definitely a really hard time. And then I had a great season, so it was worth it.
- [16:31]
Unknown
Well, maternity leave, you only played four games the particular season. How much did you weigh the decision to have a baby, given that in order to be excellent? Oftentimes, anywhere you find ego or success, you will find some selfishness. And mom ain't really allowed that.
- [16:51]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. So I had always wanted to be a young mom. I knew I always wanted kids. And I think it was a little bit of, like, you don't know what you don't know, because I got pregnant at the end of whatever, 2021 season, and so I had the whole off season to be pregnant. And one of my favorite players, Sylvia Fowles, my teammate, I knew she was retiring that next year. So that was my goal, is to, like, get back so I can play at least one game with her. I just didn't know how hard it was going to be. Like, I thought I was an athlete. I would bounce back. It would be super easy. Not the case. I couldn't work out for the last two months of my pregnancy because I was having some bleeding with Mila, and then I had her, and you can't work out for six weeks. And then I gained a lot of weight because of that. So losing that. And then, of course, I told you my body was hurting. All these hormones are going through your body that I had no idea about. So I played, like, 11 weeks after I had her, and I'm super happy I got to play with Syl. Like, she's such a legend in our game. But, I mean, I would not do it again.
- [17:52]
Unknown
It cost you. When you say your body was retaliating against you, you are dealing with physical pain, weight gain, the emotions of having no handbook with a child. What was happening. What can you say was happening then that made you think. Think that you weren't going to play anymore? Roller coaster of postpartum stuff?
- [18:18]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. No. I mean, I did have a little bit of postpartum right after I had her, but physically, it was like, just my knees. So something I didn't know is when the hormones in your body, it's a hormone that loosens all your joints so that you can give birth. Like, the baby can get out. But through that process, like, everywhere there was a joint, it was so painful, like, because I was putting so much stress on it because I was trying to play. And then these hormones are still running through my. My body. My knees were, like, so swollen. That was what I majority. Majority of my rehab was for, was my knees. And, like, the cartilage had, like, worn down so much in that time. Like, my feet and my shoulders, my hips, Just everywhere there was a joint, it hurt to bend it at all. So, like, obviously, you need those things to play basketball. I couldn't even shoot, like, a free throw. Like, it hurt to bend that little. And so we found a really good physical therapist in New York, and I just spent the whole off season there and then, so just dealing with that. And then, like, with Mila, just the struggles of, like, new parenthood, you know, just trying to figure that out is just obviously really stressful. You're running on way less sleep than I ever have before. That's a huge thing for recovery as well. And so it was just a kind of a scary time for my career in that point, because it was like, a race also to get to the. To be ready for the season. Cause I'm like, if I still feel this way in the beginning of the season, I cannot play. So it was just kind of stressful in that sense.
- [19:40]
Unknown
Can you take us next to you at the moment that you're having the legitimate doubt and thought, I'm not gonna play anymore. This hurts too much.
- [19:50]
Nafeesa Collier
It was actually. We were in Missouri. Both my husband And I are from there. We were in a church gym, and I was, like, trying to get warmed up to work out, and I'm like, I literally can't even run down the court. It's that painful. And I started crying. Like, my husband's there. I'm like, if it feels like this, there's no way I can play. And I know I have a high pain tolerance. I play through a lot of injuries well.
- [20:10]
Unknown
And he can't help you here like this. No training, nothing. Like, what does he know about childbirth and what the after effects of that?
- [20:17]
Nafeesa Collier
Exactly. This is not like, a training issue. This is. My body is. And I don't know what to do, so.
- [20:22]
Unknown
And he's still pushing you or, like, how do you do? How do you manage that stuff? Right. Because that ain't easy.
- [20:28]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. No, I think he realized right away because, again, when you're talking about toughness, I know I'm physically tough. Like, I know that is something, and he knows it, too. So, like, if I'm crying about it, he knows something's wrong. So he got on the phone with my trainer in Minnesota, and, like, we just try to figure out a plan, like, do all we can until the season starts, and if you're still feeling this way, then we take the next steps. But I knew. I'm like, if I feel this way, I can't play.
- [20:53]
Unknown
But were you scaring him with, like, how prevalent a thought was my career might be over here? I'm reacting more poorly to childbirth than some of my peers have.
- [21:04]
Nafeesa Collier
How is he taking that?
- [21:05]
Unknown
You're saying, how were you and him taking the idea of. There's real doubt here about whether it is. I'm going to be able to continue doing this.
- [21:13]
Nafeesa Collier
He's pretty positive. He's like, let's just see what, you know, the Dr. Stacy with the therapists say. And, you know, obviously, I'm trying to keep that mindset as well, but it's scary. And I just knew, like, I cannot play if I feel like this. And that's like saying a lot. So I try to do it, like, one step at a time. Like, him and my trainer from Minnesota were saying, like, let's just see what the therapists say. Let's just do this rehab and try to push through as much as we can.
- [21:39]
Unknown
If you had to compare them, which of the feelings was worse around basketball, the anxiety at the beginning of your UConn career or this?
- [21:53]
Nafeesa Collier
It's hard because they're so different. I mean, the UConn one is hard because you're doubting yourself so much in your abilities, and that is something. Once you go mentally, it's so hard to come back from that. So I'd actually say that one was probably harder because I. I'm lucky that I am mentally tough and was able to. It made me stronger. But if that's something that breaks you, I mean, you see it so many times, like, sports is 80% mental. So that was probably a worst feeling. This one was like, I'm gonna give it my best shot. Like, mentally, I know I'm tough enough. It's just, is my body gonna let me do it? So that's scary from that sense, but at least I know I'm doing everything that I can. The other one, you feel like you're. You're failing yourself mentally. And that, to me, is the worst feeling.
- [22:32]
Unknown
It's interesting, too, on where it is, you would get support for either of those things. The reason I asked the question is because physical pain, most people would think of it, I think, as the worst. But emotional pain, when you're climbing towards something and Gino's riding you hard and the anxiety is how prevalent. Can you walk me through how anxious you actually were? Because you don't have the confidence. I'm tough. Or the confidence of much of anything. You're getting exposed by the top of the food chain, champ. Do I belong here? These are champions. Am I?
- [23:03]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. That one's really tough because everyone, especially at UConn, you're the best from where you come from. I had not had really any adversity, basketball wise. Like, I always played older. I was always the best team, even when I. The best player, even when I played older. You know, my team won state three years in a row in high school. Like, I was always the best player. And then you get to UConn, you're the worst player. They think you're the stupidest player. Like, you can't do anything right. So that's. I mean, it's so hard. You're. You're weak. I never lifted before. You don't know any of the plays. There's a whole new style about. You are learning a whole new style of basketball. We would have. I. I like, kind of compare it to. It's like an outline of a circle with nothing filled in. So he'll give you an idea of what he wants, and then you have to play and make reads and be a smart basketball player. Learning how to do that is really hard. If it's something you've never done before and you have that with the pressure. The best player in the world as your senior, the best coach in the world, you know, nitpicking everything that you're doing. And so it's really hard. I mean, it would be, like, to a point where I didn't even want to be on the floor because I was so scared I was gonna mess up or that I wasn't gonna know the play or something was something of that was gonna happen. So it definitely, like, took my joy away from basketball for a little bit, but I just had to come to a point where, again, you have to sink or swim. Like, I know that I got here for a reason. If he's gonna do that. Okay. Like I said, I'm gonna work as hard as I can during the summer. So I.
- [24:28]
Unknown
How long was the period that you're talking about?
- [24:31]
Nafeesa Collier
It was a good. I would say it was a good six months.
- [24:35]
Unknown
Were you close to quitting? Did you feel.
- [24:37]
Nafeesa Collier
Oh, I wanted to transfer. But you can't. You couldn't transfer then because you had to sit out a year, and I didn't want to sit out a year.
- [24:42]
Unknown
Oh. So the new rules. Nil. You're gone, Nil.
- [24:45]
Nafeesa Collier
I would have been gone. Yeah. I'm glad I didn't, but I would have.
- [24:49]
Unknown
And how soon would you have been gone? How much more did you endure that you would have, if the rules had been different? How long before Gino's running you right out of there? Because I don't think you could have expected any of that. Right. It's one thing to be weaker than everyone else. It's another thing to have the coach making you such a misery that you don't want to actually go play.
- [25:09]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. So. And it's hard. It's such a hard balance because, yes, like, he was the reason I was feeling that way. But there's such a method to the madness. Like, again, I'm glad I went through that because I wouldn't be who I am without that. But in. In that state change, it's hard. I pro. I would have finished the year because I'm not gonna quit in the middle of the season. I just. I wouldn't do that. But last day of classes, I'm out of there.
- [25:33]
Unknown
Can you explain to folks who don't understand what the cost is of greatness?
- [25:42]
Nafeesa Collier
I think the biggest word would be sacrifice. I mean. Yeah. I mean, growing up, it looks like, you know, your summers are gone, you're playing basketball. There's a lot of trade off. There's a lot of amazing things about sports, that I want my kids to be in sports and I've learned so much. But on the flip side is you don't have a lot of friends out of sports. You are missing stuff that's important when you're young. You know, sleepovers, parties. I wasn't really allowed to go to a lot of parties in high school because my parents would always say, you have so much more to lose. You know, you have like scholarships on the line. You can't get caught doing all these things. And that's all you want to do when you're in high school. So it keeps you out of trouble, but you want to be in trouble when you're younger.
- [26:22]
Unknown
You lose some childhood in there.
- [26:23]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. And then, you know, as you get older, I think just especially at this level now, I would say, I don't know, just the way that our sport is growing, I think the sacrifices. This is your career now, like you do. I said I don't live and die, but what happens. But it's also the way that you make money. So there's a lot more on a line. It's just a lot heavier, of course, than when you were younger. Everything is when you're an adult, but it's not about, oh, I just wanted to play. Well, this is like how you make money for your family. So it's even more competitive in that. And then sometimes people are like, you're competing with your teammates because you want their playing time or you want their money or whatever it is. So you lose a little bit of the purity of the sport in that way. And I kind of feel that way about Nil. So happy that athletes are finally making money in college. But I do think it takes away the purity of the sport a little bit because you're so worried about money and people are leaving. There's like, you can leave every year and go somewhere else. So I think you lose a little bit of that in there, too.
- [27:24]
Unknown
Professionals always complain about the business portions of things because things can get colder, less warm when you start applying business to them. When you examine the entirety of your career, is there a place that you would like some do overs on, some things that you might do differently where you wouldn't be quite as. Yes, I'm glad I went through this. But where you'd just like to do something differently because you'd end up in a different spot?
- [27:55]
Nafeesa Collier
Honestly, I don't think so. I'm really big on everything happens for a reason. So it's hard to have a lot of regrets that way. Even with, like, I believe I'm the best player. And I went six to Minnesota. Like, to me, I was like, what are you guys saying? Because I think I'm the best player, but I wouldn't be in the position I'm in now if I never ended up in Minnesota. It was the perfect place for me to be. So when everything turns out well like that, it's hard to have any regrets.
- [28:22]
Unknown
Is that something that you came by naturally? Like, I think there's a great deal of happiness in that, not looking back and just being someone who doesn't look at anything other than a growth opportunity. But usually that requires a few more years than you've lived to arrive at.
- [28:37]
Nafeesa Collier
That kind of wisdom again. My parents, like, I had such a great foundation. They were such. Are such hard workers in everything that they do, and they just teach you to be thankful for what you have. Like, my dad would always say, if you put all your problems and everyone else's problems in a pot, you would grab yours back. And I feel like that is such a. Like, such a good approach, because you never know what other people are going through. And if you had to choose, you would choose your problems over someone else's. You don't know what's happening in their lives.
- [29:05]
Unknown
What are the examples that you're remembering? My parents were such hard workers. What are you watching? What's the example being set?
- [29:11]
Nafeesa Collier
Well, I mean, my. I mean, my mom grew up on a dairy farm in Missouri. My parents are total opposites. My dad grew up in Sierra Leone, West Africa. He came over during the. The war over there, and they met. Like, my mom was in nursing school, and so she was working at a nursing home trying to get her hours up. My dad was the only place that they would hire, like, black people in that town at the time was a nursing home. So just the way that they worked there and then just worked so hard to support me and my brother never complained a day in their life about going to work or supporting us or all the things that came with both of us playing sports, the money that that requires, the travel, like, they did not have lives of their own. I'm realizing now, like, as I grow up, like, this is so fun. We get to travel all the time, but they never got time to themselves. And just the sacrifice that they made without once telling us about it or making us feel like they were sacrificing it just shows you, like, the kind of parents and people that they are. I'm super grateful that I had them.
- [30:06]
Unknown
Were there many obstacles for you, or were they cleared out of the way growing up? Yes.
- [30:13]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, there was. I mean, of course, like, you know, we grew up in a super, like, white town. My dad's African, so, you know, going to school, just feeling so different. Like, I think one of my first memories from kindergarten was it was like a K through 12 school, and I was the only black person in the whole school. And one of the little girls was like, oh, we can't play with you anymore because you're black and we're white. And that was the first time I ever heard that. So just from that moment on, I felt like I just really was conscious of that. I looked different than everyone. So that's just hard growing up, you know, but. And then, you know, kind of from the same thread, like, everyone from that town knew each other growing up. And when my brother and I were trying to play sports, we were trying to get on the teams when we were younger, and they never had room for us on the teams to play. So my parents actually went out and we got kids from surrounding towns and we created our own basketball team, and we ended up, you know, winning all these championships with that team. And all of a sudden, they had room for us after that.
- [31:10]
Unknown
At that age, you're just trying to fit in, though, right? So it feels a little lonely to be. Were you also taller than most of the kids?
- [31:16]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, I was always tall.
- [31:17]
Unknown
And so you've got both of those working right now. You don't even want to be seen that much as a kid, right?
- [31:23]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. I know as a kid, you want nothing more than to blend in. That changes as you get older. But, yeah, I mean, it's really hard to be different when you're a kid. Kids are mean. Being different is not the cool thing at that time. And so it is hard to do that. But again, I feel like my family was so strong that it's like, even if you feel like different at school, like, you can't help but be happy. Because I had such a happy childhood with my family.
- [31:48]
Unknown
One of my closest friends, Ricky Williams, grew up in San Diego. And one of the things that he was always dealing with was some form of the black kids didn't think he was black enough, and the white kids thought he was too black or whatever it is that's in there. When you're trying to make your way through some sort of, you know, do some cultural translations, where were the difficulties for you and how did they shape you in trying to navigate two different worlds?
- [32:19]
Nafeesa Collier
I mean, the same thing. But I Think sports also helped a lot with that because when you're playing sports also, like all those kind of petty things that happen at school, they don't happen when you're playing. You have such a, like, you united goal towards something when you're playing. Just all my friendships were through sports. And so, yeah, I mean, sports is.
- [32:42]
Unknown
A great confidence builder for kids, especially if you're good at them. Right. Like, it all of a sudden makes you popular.
- [32:46]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, especially girls. It's a huge. I mean, there's so many stats saying the top women in their fields, they all played sports. Just the confidence that it builds the, you know, leadership skills, the people skills, just everything. It's great.
- [33:00]
Unknown
How old were you when you realized you were really, really good?
- [33:05]
Nafeesa Collier
I would probably say eighth grade because I got my first college scholarship then. And that was before they really. They do it a little bit more now, so I think that was it. And I almost signed, like, on the spot, but my dad's the one that kind of pulled me and my mom off the ledge.
- [33:19]
Unknown
He's like, you almost signed who was sending it, though?
- [33:21]
Nafeesa Collier
Who was Mizzou? Cause, yeah, I was from Missouri. And I was like, yes, I'm ready to sign. He's like, you're 14 years old. Let's hold on a little bit. And so he used kind of the voice of reason through that.
- [33:33]
Unknown
Did you find yourself along the path then start gaining confidence right there. Eighth grade is when that's happening. Does it start pretty immediately?
- [33:43]
Nafeesa Collier
No. I've honestly always been blessed with really great coaches. So my freshman year of high school, I went to Jeff City High School before I moved to my other school. And I was actually the point guard there. And he was a really tough coach. He was like one of those coach exactly like Gino, like a yeller. Really tough. Expects a lot from you. And so when you're with coaches like that, they never let your head get too big. You know, they're always pushing you to be better. And he did. And so it wasn't like I went in there thinking, you know, I'm the best player in the world.
- [34:12]
Unknown
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- [34:58]
Nafeesa Collier
What's up? I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes.
- [35:02]
Unknown
You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your walls eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes.
- [35:09]
Nafeesa Collier
They made it easy, transparent terms, customizable down and monthly. Didn't even have to do any paperwork.
- [35:14]
Unknown
Wow.
- [35:16]
Nafeesa Collier
Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner options?
- [35:20]
Unknown
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- [36:28]
I if people around here were being honest, they would tell you I often am lamenting that I wish I were a better leader. I wish I knew more about leadership. You just mentioned leadership. When did you start to become one of those?
- [36:44]
Nafeesa Collier
I would say when I got to Minnesota probably. I mean I tried in college a little bit, but I was just. I'm not a big like vocally I was not a leader. I think I was. I tried to lead by example. Like I always try to be the hardest worker and show that way. But I was really uncomfortable with like confrontation. So holding people accountable, you have to be confrontational. And so I feel like I started building the vocal side of it more when I was in Minnesota because, again, Sylvia Fowles was my vet, and her and our coach knew she was retiring soon. So they kind of, like, set me up for that a couple years before that happened. Like, saying, you know, you're going to be in this leadership role. We need you to start working on this, this, and this. And so just like, the first step of whatever is admitting you have a problem, just acknowledging in those situations that, okay, this is something. This is somewhere I can grow. Like, this is somewhere where I can say something and just naturally I got more and more confident in that.
- [37:39]
Unknown
Have you gotten good at confrontation?
- [37:41]
Nafeesa Collier
I wouldn't say good. It's something like, I. It's not natural to me, so it's something I will always have to work on. But I'm definitely way better than I used to be.
- [37:49]
Unknown
But how do you. Like, how do you process it in terms of awareness? Because now you're. You're not emotionally getting into a fight with a teammate. You're purposefully getting into a fight with a teammate, Correct?
- [38:00]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. Well, I think still, like, that is not my confrontation style. Like, the word is confrontational, but I'm not confrontational about it. I try to come with it from, like, a point of reason, so see why you're thinking that way and try to, like, meet you where you're at. So I try to talk through in that way.
- [38:17]
Unknown
Wait a minute. So you're just being direct? That's not confrontational?
- [38:20]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [38:22]
Unknown
Like, direct. Confrontational is going and trying to. You know, I don't need to explain this to you, but, yeah, creating whatever friction or fuel there is in, like, let me see if I can consciously instigate so that this person is better, doing whatever I have to do to make this person better.
- [38:40]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah. Not my leadership style still. So conflict. Confrontation is the wrong word. Then. I feel like I'm more direct. Like, if I see a problem, I'll say it, but I'm not, like, trying to get it where you're riled up and in a fight. I'm trying to reason with you.
- [38:54]
Unknown
And you've discovered that you are a good leader. Like, what. What is it that's giving you the understanding that you are a good leader?
- [39:02]
Nafeesa Collier
I mean, I hope I'm a good leader. I try to be a good leader for my team. I think a sign is that, like, I think my teammates respect me and they listen to me when I talk. I think that's a sign of a good leader is when you say something, they actively try to do what you're saying.
- [39:15]
Unknown
We were talking before we started, though. And I'm not gonna say you apologize for being a soft talker, but you did admit that on the court, you have to summon an entirely different voice than your voice in order to be heard above the crowd. In order to what?
- [39:32]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah. I don't know what it is. I think just, like, the level that my voice is at, naturally, it's hard to hear in loud situations, so I have to make it usually lower, but sometimes higher so it kind of breaks above or below. Like what the noise is so that.
- [39:46]
Unknown
You can be heard by your teammates in critical moments.
- [39:49]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. Especially on the court. Like, this is just communication. Stuff like that. A screen is coming so they don't get cracked. Or like what we're doing on offense or defense.
- [39:56]
Unknown
The first thing you have to do is lower your voice an octave upon recognition.
- [40:00]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah.
- [40:02]
Unknown
To change your natural cadence. So a lot of things in basketball by you have had to be learned in order to successfully navigate the place that represents what I imagine is the most confident version of you we've ever seen. Yes.
- [40:17]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, I think the vocal side is definitely the most. I was. I mean, growing up, I would say I was pretty shy. Like, I wasn't a really vocal person. And that started in college, where, of course, they say the thing you have to do on defense, you have to talk, talk, talk. It was, like, exhausting for me to talk now. It's so natural. I mean, I've been doing it for years, obviously, but that was, like, so exhausting that you have to be always talking and calling out on defense and cheering for your team. Like, I couldn't think of anything worse.
- [40:43]
Unknown
Exhausting.
- [40:44]
Nafeesa Collier
It was exhausting.
- [40:45]
Unknown
Truly emotionally draining.
- [40:47]
Nafeesa Collier
Yes. When I'm already physically so tired and then I have to talk the whole time because why?
- [40:52]
Unknown
What is happening there that would make that so exhausting?
- [40:57]
Nafeesa Collier
I think it's because. I mean, honestly, I don't know. I wasn't used to it. Like, I never had to do it really before.
- [41:03]
Unknown
But it's forced. So it's not authentic. It's not natural.
- [41:05]
Nafeesa Collier
It wasn't.
- [41:06]
Unknown
It's something that has to be learned, conscious and get to hear. But it's not any kind of natural.
- [41:10]
Nafeesa Collier
Now it is. When I was learning, it wasn't. Now it is so natural. Like, I don't even think twice about it. Like, in fact, if you don't do it, it's like a faux pas. It's bad. But Before, I was like, oh, I have to talk again. We've been talking this whole time. Like, don't, you know the screens come. You can't see them. So it was hard at first.
- [41:28]
Unknown
Did anyone ever say to you, hey, I can't hear you. You're talking too low. Or you just learned over time, I've.
- [41:33]
Nafeesa Collier
Got to go deeper? No, it was because I was, like, screaming. I was yelling as loud as I could, and they're like, we can't hear you. I'm like, I don't know what else I need to do. So I started making my voice, like, higher or lower, and they could hear me.
- [41:45]
Unknown
So would you be kind enough, not that you're a parrot, but would you be kind enough to show me what the octave changes are between.
- [41:51]
Nafeesa Collier
I don't know if you.
- [41:52]
Unknown
Between. Well, I just want to see what the difference is so that I can understand it. Between high and low. Unless that makes you uncomfort. I don't want to make you uncomfortable.
- [41:59]
Nafeesa Collier
So usually I'd be like, screen. But especially, like, when I'm having to go really fast, my voice goes higher. So I'm like, screen. So it's really loud like that. Or I'm like, we're gonna trap. We're trapping. Like, try to make it a little lower so just whatever it is, like, whatever what my normal voice isn't, try to make it different so they can hear.
- [42:19]
Unknown
You mentioned unrivaled having amenities that are thought of by people who have experienced things that are needed to be great professionally. You have a child care center. Right. That's one of the things that you have put in place. What are some of the other things that you have tried to do, at least in part because of your experiences of not having them come while you came up?
- [42:42]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. So we went over a list of, like, must haves. So you have to have a weight room, which actually not everybody has. You have to have a training room. We have to have, you know, like, those are things that you have to have. Okay, what can we make those? How can we elevate those? So we got, like, the best of all the equipment in the weight room. We got the best of all the equipment in the training room, where we don't have the stuff in the w. Like these equipments that we're using. And then it's like, okay, we have our necessities now. What would what we just want just to make the experience better. So we have, like, a sauna. We have an esthetician room. We have, like, a makeup room. We have, you know, hot and cold tubs, which that's more of a necessity. But just stuff like that where it's not a necessity, but it's nice to have. It makes the experience nice. We have a on call, like every week or every day. And so things that will elevate the experience in that way where it's like, you know, we want to make this better than what we've had. It's not just meeting our needs. We want to make it a professional experience where you have things that are just nice to have too.
- [43:41]
Unknown
Are you able to concentrate on just your basketball portion of it and Alex and others can handle the business, or do you have to do all of the roles?
- [43:53]
Nafeesa Collier
I. I don't have to do all the roles, but I definitely am intermingling with things. I mean, when I'm in the facility, I am with my team, I definitely try to focus on basketball. But then you'll have players come up to you and be like, we want this? Or can this happen? Or, you know, what's going on with this? And so you kind of step into that role. And then at the end of the day, Alex tells me everything that goes on on the business side. And then, like, if I have an opinion about something, then you step into that role. So there's definitely some intermingling, but I try to keep when I'm there, like, I'm with my team, I'm locked in.
- [44:25]
Unknown
Well, when you say, though, that it's been years in the making, I don't know what it's like to work with your partner on something this intertwined. What are the complications in that and what are the fulfillments?
- [44:40]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, we have a lot of practice because like I said, he was my trainer for, like, several years before we started dating. And so when we transitioned over to dating, it was really hard to work together. Like, we were questioning, like, should I get a new trainer? Just because it's hard to switch that off where, you know, we're partners, but you're telling me what to do, like when. And you're critiquing me when I'm playing, and then all of a sudden, like, I think you have an attitude. You think I have an attitude? It's, like, hard to listen. So we had to have, like a conversation where when we step on the court, this is now, you know, teacher, student environment. Like, you need to listen to me. I won't be getting an attitude if I think you're not listening. Like, whatever it is, like, set that aside. And once we did that it was great. So you kind of have to establish those boundaries. So we had some practice in that a little bit, and then once it switched over to unrivaled, it was just really collaborative because I kind of. I defer to him on the business side. He knows all the business stuff, and he defers to me on the player experience side, because I know that. So I think we just did a really great job of trusting each other in our different categories, and then you come together to create the best product.
- [45:43]
Unknown
How did it come to be that the trainer relationship blossomed into romance?
- [45:49]
Nafeesa Collier
So it was my junior year at UConn, and Alex was training a couple of the players on the Knicks. So he was in New York a lot, and I was struggling my junior year, and so he would, like, come down to help me train. I'm like, I need to get some reps in because I'm not feeling good. So we'd come down and train, and it's like a three hour drive. So we would hang out for a little bit after, we'd go to dinners or just hang out and talk about. And I guess it just, like, naturally progressed.
- [46:14]
Unknown
Okay, but I'm gonna need a little bit more information here about, like, how is it that it comes to be that you have. I wasn't thinking about this at all this way before, and now he's gonna be the father of my children.
- [46:29]
Nafeesa Collier
There are definitely some years between.
- [46:31]
Unknown
It seems there's some holes in your story right now in terms of how it is that you're telling me how we get from. He's pushing you around, he's training you well. First of all, how does he become your trainer? Let's start there.
- [46:43]
Nafeesa Collier
So the first time I met him was right before I left for UConn, and I had a different trainer. And one of my friends was just like, you know, I'm going to this workout with this guy from the company they were with was called Pure Sweat. I'm going to Pure Sweat. We're workout. Do you want to just join me for this workout? So that's like, technically the first time I met him, I was like, oh, I actually really like what he's doing. And then, you know, I go to college, I have that horrible year. I'm like, I need to get better in this off season. And I knew I wanted to, you know, move on from my other trainer. He was starting to, you know, transition out of training, and Alex was the only person I knew. And I'm like, I really liked what he was doing. And so that's how he became my trainer. Like I said, we worked together for, like, what, three years doing that? And then he went to New York, and I don't know, I just thought he was really cute. And we were spending a lot of time together, and you get to know people more that way. Like, it's not like I'm only seeing you on the court more now. I. I could see your personality more. I could tell he was getting flirty, too. And I think he just, like, asked me out on a date one day. We went to dinner. He's not like he ever asked me to be his girlfriend. We just started hanging out a lot after that, and it kind of just. I think the first title we had was, like, engaged, because I don't know if he ever asked me to be his girlfriend.
- [47:54]
Unknown
Super interesting time to be with you too, though, right? Like, those three years he's seeing. He's got a pretty unique access to you now. Are going to start. Start flourishing into the professional person that you've become?
- [48:08]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah, I would say so. I mean, and he had a lot of experience. He worked with a lot of NBA players, so he kind of saw the progression of that. Like, he worked, for example. I mean, he worked with Trey Young, and since he was in high school, so you see, like, the levels of it, like, obviously, they accelerate a lot faster. They don't go through college the same way. But so he kind of. It was cool to kind of lean on his expertise in that, too, because I had no idea what to expect. I didn't have any WNBA friends, you know, and so just knowing what that process looks like, kind of being able to, you know, he knows what agents, like, what agents you're supposed to look for in an agent, how, you know, deals are supposed to be done. So kind of leaning on his expertise in that, too.
- [48:49]
Unknown
When you're coming up, your dreams look like, what, have you already exceeded them?
- [48:56]
Nafeesa Collier
I mean, I never had a dream to be a WNBA player, so I would say yes. I. I mean, when I was little, like, I wanted to be a teacher, and then I wanted to be a doctor. And then, you know, I want to be a hairstylist. I love playing with hair. I think I just naturally, like, accidentally fell into professional basketball. Like, I just loved playing sports. I had to pick a sport to stick with when I was in high school, and I'm like, I'm the best at basketball. I'll stick with basketball. It turned into, like, okay, I want to get my school paid for, and then I get to go to college. I'm like, oh, this is the best school. And then once you get there, I'm like, okay, I have a chance to be a professional athlete. Like, so I kind of just took it one step at a time. It's not like I'm like, my ultimate goal is to be a WNBA player.
- [49:35]
Unknown
But when you've done goals and stuff, have you met most of them?
- [49:42]
Nafeesa Collier
I've met a lot, but not all. I mean, going to my rookie year, I had a gold sweep, Rookie of the year, because there's just so much happening that year. I mean, you're going from college to a new team. News, you know, new city, new everything.
- [49:54]
Unknown
You score, what, 27 points in your first game?
- [49:57]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, I know. Well, that's why I'm like, I need something to focus me. Like, I want to be rookie of the year. And I had a horrible preseason, actually. I think I had four points between both the games. And I felt like how I did my freshman year at college, but, like, luckily I was able to. I'd been there before. I was able to recognize it. I'm like, I'm never feeling that way again. So I came out my first game, I'm like, I don't care. I'm just going to play basketball. And I never looked back in that sense.
- [50:20]
Unknown
So this period of anxiety lasted a couple of games. Yeah. And you recognized.
- [50:25]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah.
- [50:26]
Unknown
You recognize the feeling, whatever it was, the feeling of the water rising in the room.
- [50:31]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, yeah. I was feeling not confident because it's this. It was essentially the same situation, like, you're going in where everyone's better than you again, they have more experience. You're the freshman again, and, like, as a new system, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm just playing not confidently. And that's the. That's the feeling I don't like is not being confident in what you're doing. It makes you second guess everything. It's the worst feeling. And so I recognized that's what was happening. I'm like, I'm not doing a whole nother season like this.
- [50:56]
Unknown
What is the worst of the professional experiences that you have had? Like, would that represent the greatest of the professional hardships? Because you. You've. You've had a lot of success.
- [51:09]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah.
- [51:09]
Unknown
You've had a lot of success early. There's not a lot of evidence anyone can spot of these anxieties and these doubts you speak of.
- [51:17]
Nafeesa Collier
Like, is that the worst mentally that I've been Since I said.
- [51:20]
Unknown
You said professionally, you had this period of doubt that Lasted a couple of preseason games and then you scored 27 in your first one. And I don't know that you've probably done a lot of doubt since.
- [51:30]
Nafeesa Collier
No, I mean, I do just like everyone, I think it like comes and goes. But for me, being able to recognize it is like, great for me because I feel myself like, especially you get that like mid season slump where you're not in the gym the same because you're tired, you're going from game to game, you're not getting in the same reps. So, like you feel less confidence. Like when you don't study for a test, you go and you're anxious because you, you don't know anything. When I, when you study, you go in. I feel great. So mid season, where it's like you're just in the dead of everything. You're not practicing as much. I don't feel as confident and I'm able to recognize that. And then I'm like, okay, I need to get in reps in. So I'm not feeling this way in the game because I'll have a game where like, I'm hesitating before I shoot or I'm like, should I? And that's when I'm in my worst spot, is when honestly, what I'm thinking like that. And so, yeah, just making sure that I'm aware when I'm feeling that way.
- [52:18]
Unknown
Well, is this what you're referencing when you say 80% of the game is mental? Like, what are the things that you're talking about when you say, because you don't really believe that most of the WNBA players have your skill set, Right. Or most of the top six picks in any draft have exactly your skill set. Or do you believe they do have that skill set and what you have is a mental advantage?
- [52:42]
Nafeesa Collier
I honestly think it's both. Like, I recognize I'm very skilled. I'm an athlete. Like, I'm a very skilled athlete. Can I run the fastest? No. Can I jump the fastest? No. Can I do all these things? No. I'm not the best at any of those. I think I worked really hard on my footwork. I think my footwork is one of the best in the league for sure. But mentally, I believe I'm the best. When I'm out there, when I get to my certain spots, I know I'm going to score. And I think you see that in a lot of players. Like, I think Trey's a great example of that. Is he the best at anything? No. But he has so much confidence in Himself. It makes him one of the best players in the league. Like, he's able to do incredible things, not because of his talent. He is very talented, but because he has so much belief in himself. And I think you see that with other players like Ben Simmons, who is so talented, but his mental is like, he's come out and said he struggles really hard mentally with his confidence in himself, and he's not able to do the things that he should be able to do. So I really believe that sports is 80, 20 mental and physical, and you.
- [53:41]
Unknown
Feel like you're sturdy there, right? Like, if I. If I say to you, what is your greater advantage, Your mental or your footwork?
- [53:51]
Nafeesa Collier
I would say my mental. Yeah.
- [53:54]
Unknown
When you speak of your footwork, can you explain to people when I. This is where I sort of say, what's the cost of that? Like, it's such a meticulous thing that you have to be taking care of so specifically until it becomes totally natural now. But what was the cost of getting your game that sculpted?
- [54:14]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, to me, it wasn't a cost. To me, it was great because the foundation of it was that sophomore. Like, that freshman summer, going to my sophomore year of college, where I was just so determined to not feel like shit anymore when I played that I wanted to be in the gym. Like, I was doing two days. Every single day. I would do skill work in the morning. I would shoot in the afternoon every single day. And so learning that. And then when you start seeing the reps go down and it feels good, you're playing pickup, you're playing one on one, I'm like, I am scoring every single time. Like, it builds your confidence, and after that becomes natural in the way that you add it to your game. But, yeah, I mean, you have to do so many reps for things to become second nature.
- [54:54]
Unknown
How do you do losing? I remember in Miami when LeBron James was the centerpiece of losing, where it looked like at the end, five minutes left with Dallas, he's swinging the ball in the perimeter because he doesn't want to have the ball anymore. He described himself as castaway, where he goes away for a month and just stews in his misery. What was the losing to the Liberty like?
- [55:19]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, it was awful. I mean, I felt a lot of anger. I've not been, you know, quiet about, like, how I felt about the finals. So I was riding on anger for a really long time. And it's still something that, like, I used to motivate myself. Even now, I mean, I feel like it has pushed Me to be, honestly, a better player because I. In the way that I play, I feel like I never want to be in that situation again where I'm having to complain about the refs, which. Everyone saying, you know, I want it to be where we're winning by so much. It doesn't matter what the refs are calling, like. And so I think it's changed my mindset and the way that I see the game, honestly, and it's made me a better player because of it.
- [55:57]
Unknown
Angry for how long? Like, how did you. Anger is just information. So what is it that you're doing with this anger and how long are you stewing in it?
- [56:05]
Nafeesa Collier
I think it's changed my mentality, honestly. It's made me more mentally strong. And so during the games, I feel like sometimes I would, like, coast a little bit where you have, you know, quarters or a couple minutes where you're like, you don't need to be involved. And, you know, you're kind of like LeBron at the end of game, like, swinging the ball, stuff like that. Now I just feel super locked in. Like, I want to make sure that I'm contributing to the team. It doesn't even have to be scoring, but, like, I need to be going out there and I need to be playing great defense. I need to be getting rebounds, whatever it is, where I'm locked in. And just. I would just say it just. It just gave me an edge to when I play and how I play.
- [56:39]
Unknown
How often do you play angry?
- [56:43]
Nafeesa Collier
Honestly, I feel like more and more just because, you know, like, in the Jordan documentary, he's like, I took that personally. I feel like it's easy to find little things that you take personally, and it makes you play with an edge. So, I don't know, you just, like, find little stuff that kind of pisses you off. And I play better when I'm mad because it makes me really focused.
- [57:05]
Unknown
So, yeah, I thought it was better to keep the emotion out of it. You found a governor? Like, give me some of the stuff people are doing to piss you off. Who's pissing you off? How they doing it?
- [57:16]
Nafeesa Collier
Well, I don't like other people to see that I'm mad, so that is something that I still stick to. It's like, I don't want you to know I'm mad, but I need to use it as fuel for myself. So, I mean, like, just, you know, people are chirping or they're, you know, fouling you, or they're complaining about something, saying, like, oh, that wasn't a foul or whatever it is you can find anything to get mad about.
- [57:37]
Unknown
It's nice though. But stoicism. You're not going to let them.
- [57:40]
Nafeesa Collier
I don't want you to know.
- [57:41]
Unknown
You're not going to let them have the pleasure.
- [57:42]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. You're just going to quietly store the.
- [57:45]
Unknown
Pleasure of knowing that then they've won. You can't let them have that. You just have to let them give you just enough fuel so you use it as rage to eat their face.
- [57:54]
Nafeesa Collier
Yes, absolutely.
- [57:54]
Unknown
Okay. I'm glad I articulated it for you that way. Do you as you. You won the one on one of unrivaled and you are determined how much to win to bring the Lunar Owls the title so that you can be co founder. So you can be greedy about it.
- [58:13]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah.
- [58:13]
Unknown
So you can be champion of one on one created the league and also won the team title.
- [58:19]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. I want to be super greedy about it. I mean, and also, like, we're working our butts off. We are in the weight room every single day, all five of us. We are in the training room every single day, all five of us taking care of our bodies the way that we stay locked into practice. Like, we are making it so, like there's no competition. Like, we want it to be where we're winning every single game. Like we're mad that we lost one game, you know, and so. Yeah. I mean, especially when there's 50 bands on the line for the winner. Like we're taking it really seriously. We want to win.
- [58:51]
Unknown
Where does this rank in terms of community feeling that you've had with five players before? Because nobody can really understand unless you've done it, what those bonds are like.
- [59:03]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. I would definitely compare this more to college where because we're just in such a confined space and there's only five of us, so there's not like you have cliques that can form on the team. We're so small already. We are our own clique. And so. And just, you know, the adversity of going through this together, like there's a huge target on your back. Everyone thinks whatever they do about your team. Cause you're winning so much. And, and you know, everyone is happy when you lose that one game. It's like their super bowl when you lose. So it brings you closer together. So it's been really fun. I mean, and this team is so competitive. Like, it's been really fun to be a part of.
- [59:41]
Unknown
How about the fulfillment involved in providing something that might one day be bought by the WNBA or Like, just the fulfillment of these people having employment because of something you made. How much of that are you getting daily?
- [60:00]
Nafeesa Collier
I don't know that I feel fulfilled yet, because there's still so much we want to do. Like, we. There's a lot more that we want to do, and I think we've done amazing for our inaugural season, and I think we're changing the landscape. The landscape of women's sports, like, you see it rising. I mean, overseas contracts are going up. Domestically contracts are going up. We're about to go. We're in our CBA for the wnba. And so I think I'll feel fulfilled when we see those contracts change and see, you know, unrivaled, keep going, and our contracts keep going up here and just, like, changing what it means to be a women's athlete.
- [60:36]
Unknown
Are you hard on yourself?
- [60:37]
Nafeesa Collier
I would say yes. I think all professional. I think people at the top, anyone at the top of anything is hard on themselves. That's how you get there.
- [60:46]
Unknown
I'd like to be better. It's something I'm always fighting with, of being more forgiving, more gentle with myself. But you're saying it's kind of a. It's a job requirement like that.
- [60:57]
Nafeesa Collier
I mean, I think it's how you get to where you are if you're. And this is probably a toxic take, but, like, if you're so forgiving with yourself, how are you going to push yourself to be better? And, like, how are you going to push yourself to be the greatest at something and be the best if you're not expecting that of yourself?
- [61:11]
Unknown
Do you have a reason? Like, can you tie to roots? Why do you want to be the best? Why is it so important? Like, what. Where is all of that coming from? I would assume you're surrounded by people who would allege that they want the same thing.
- [61:24]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah.
- [61:27]
Unknown
And you would notice they don't want it quite as much as I do.
- [61:30]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. Honestly, I think just. I feel like it's, like, getting greedy, honestly, like, especially because I am naturally gifted, so I have naturally been better from a younger age. I was like, I saw that. And so you get used to that feeling. And then you get people who are more talented, and you're like, well, I want that feeling back, so I have to work harder. And then you get to the next step and people are more talented, and it's like, it's running away from that feeling of, you know, I'm not the best anymore. And so I think that's probably what it is.
- [62:01]
Unknown
Honestly, the reason that I head down this path. I've also noticed I'm much older than you, I'm twice your age. But when I have talked to people who are excellent, top of their craft and we look back on their careers, almost all of them say, I wish I'd enjoyed it more. And if you're not forgiving with yourself, and if you don't stop for a minute to get balance and slow your life down, and if you don't say to yourself, God, I gotta run this business and I gotta win this tournament, it'd be real easy to. In that greed, joy just gets lost until those moments of winning, which you know can be fleeting when you don't win. Like when you don't win, then all of a sudden you're mad at the referees and you're the rage filled person you are here today where you're just fueled by just constant anger.
- [62:49]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, I don't know. I don't feel. I think I do enjoy it. Like I am having so much fun and I can, I can be proud of myself. Like, I'm not one of those people that can't be proud of themselves. I can recognize that I need to be better and also be happy about what I've done to this point. Like, I'm not settling for what I have done. Like, I still think I can be better at a lot of things, but I'm also super proud that I've been to the Olympics twice. Super proud that I am playing well. Like, I recognize that I'm playing well. I think I can be better, but I think I'm playing great and I'm really proud of myself for what's happened. It's just, I want to keep that feeling. I guess I want to keep being proud of what I'm doing.
- [63:31]
Unknown
Last question before we let you out of here. Your necklace. Your daughter. How much have you been changed by everything that is required of a mom?
- [63:41]
Nafeesa Collier
Oh my gosh, so much. I mean, she's definitely like the best thing in my life. She's motherhood is amazing. I mean, it's an indescribable feeling. Honestly, just, kids change so fast too, just seeing her learn. Every day she learns something new. Like how excited she is to see you. She doesn't care if I win or lose anything. Like, she's like, mom, are you playing basketball? You going to basketball today? She's just so happy. I mean, kids are just such a joy. It just has really given my life purpose, I would say.
- [64:09]
Unknown
And that purpose feels like, what? Like, how would you articulate how selfish you were before a professional athlete to get to. I don't even know that selfish is bad on the way to athletic greatness. It's almost. Almost kind of required. But how have you been changed there? Because you do have, like, I would imagine that your work requires obsessive compulsive dedication.
- [64:34]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah, it's focused me a lot more. So I know that I have a finite amount of time when I'm at the gym because I want to get home to my family. So it makes my workouts better because I don't have time to just be like messing around while I'm there. So I think my workouts are better now because of that. And then also it's just like, it makes me play more free because even though basketball has never been my entire life, obviously, so a lot rides on that. And you want to play well. So, like, you play tense in that way. And now it's just like, she's the most important thing in my life and she doesn't care about any of that stuff. It's like, it's not really that important what happens here. It just makes you play more free and it makes you. And then I actually play better that way.
- [65:15]
Unknown
I don't think that's exactly the messaging unrivaled wants necessarily that it's not as important as you might think. It is.
- [65:25]
Nafeesa Collier
Definitely not as important as a child.
- [65:27]
Unknown
You're probably right. No. Well, you've got two children here. You've got. There are two of them here that you've made with your husband. One of them is unrivaled and the other is the basketball league.
- [65:38]
Nafeesa Collier
Yeah. Who's the firstborn?
- [65:41]
Unknown
I appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing with us. It's been a pleasure to watch your excellence.
- [65:47]
Nafeesa Collier
Thank you. I appreciate it.