South Beach Sessions - Patton Oswalt

Summary

Summary of "South Beach Sessions - Patton Oswalt"

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz hosted a compelling episode titled "South Beach Sessions - Patton Oswalt," released on April 24, 2025. This episode featured the renowned actor, comedian, and writer Patton Oswalt, delving deep into his personal journey, creative process, and philosophical viewpoints. Hosted by Dan Le Batard and Stugotz from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, the conversation navigated through Oswalt's early influences, his stance on the role of comedians in society, his experiences with grief and fatherhood, and his reflections on the evolving landscape of comedy and media.

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Early Life and Entry into Comedy

Patton Oswalt began by discussing his upbringing and the influence of his father, a Marine who served three tours in Vietnam. Named after a World War II general, Oswalt shared how his father's disciplined military background contrasted with his own comedic pursuits.

[01:45] Host: "I want to talk to you about so many different things, but the first thing I wanted to start with is your father, as a military man, named you after a World War II general."

[01:48] Patton Oswalt: "An insane World War II general."

Oswalt recounted his transition into comedy during the summer of 1988, a pivotal time he likened to the universal college freshman-to-sophomore year challenge of finding one's path.

[02:25] Patton Oswalt: "And I just started doing a bunch of different jobs, and none of them were clicking... I went and did a couple open mics in D.C. and I just loved the hang and the world and the people."

He emphasized the communal aspect of comedy clubs, where real-life hassles became fodder for humor, highlighting the human connection at the heart of his comedic material.

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Comedians as Truth-Tellers

A significant portion of the discussion revolved around the role of comedians in society. Oswalt expressed his discomfort with the notion that comedians should bear the primary responsibility of pointing out societal truths.

[05:00] Patton Oswalt: "I hate the phrase that comedians are the truth tellers and the philosophers... We shouldn't be comedians and our politicians and philosophers and journalists should be the truth tellers."

He critiqued the current media landscape, where figures like Jon Stewart inadvertently became trusted news sources as traditional media faltered.

[08:20] Patton Oswalt: "It became the source of news, and the news had to become entertaining and funny."

Oswalt advocated for a separation of roles, where comedians focus on humor without the added burden of societal accountability.

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Navigating Hopelessness and Mental Health

Oswalt opened up about feelings of hopelessness amidst the chaotic state of the world, balancing his cynicism with a resilient approach to his craft.

[09:18] Patton Oswalt: "There are days I'm completely hopeless... I show up again tomorrow with something."

Drawing inspiration from Cory Booker's advice, he emphasized the importance of doing something meaningful, even if it's not transformative on a global scale.

[09:18] Patton Oswalt: "...just do something. You know, obviously, no one can. No one can do everything but show up."

He contrasted his own perseverance with that of his peers, highlighting his unique approach to handling societal frustrations.

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Career Highlights and Creative Process

Patton reflected on his diverse career in comedy, acting, and writing, sharing anecdotes from various projects that brought him joy and fulfillment. He highlighted the significance of surrounding himself with creative individuals who challenge and elevate his work.

[20:53] Patton Oswalt: "I do comic books... I want to see how things get made."

Oswalt recounted his experiences on shows like Justified, Happy, and United States of Terror, emphasizing the value of collaboration with talented actors and directors.

[51:04] Patton Oswalt: "All of those experiences, to me, really, really meant a lot."

He also discussed his preference for intimate comedy club settings over large theaters, finding them more conducive to creativity and immediate audience connection.

[61:33] Patton Oswalt: "I am searching for what is truly deeply funny... it's a search."

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Impact of Fatherhood and Grief

A poignant segment of the conversation delved into Oswalt's personal life, particularly the loss of his late wife, Michelle, and the birth of his daughter, Alice. He detailed his journey through grief, emphasizing the transformative effect it had on his outlook and priorities.

[67:01] Patton Oswalt: "I met people and had experiences that changed my mind... I'm just gonna take care of my daughter and I don't need to feel anything."

Oswalt shared the profound impact of grief on his ability to find joy and love again, crediting support groups and meaningful relationships in his healing process.

[74:32] Patton Oswalt: "There will be joy and hope and love again. You don't know when it's gonna happen, but when it happens, run at it."

He also reflected on the balance between professional ambitions and personal responsibilities, illustrating his commitment to being present for his daughter over pursuing demanding roles.

[65:37] Patton Oswalt: "I turned down... I turned down a very specific movie and a very specific TV show... because it was during that time when she was like, a year and a half old."

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Philosophies on Life and Parenting

Patton shared his philosophical musings on life, parenting, and the human condition. He touched upon the essence of creativity, the importance of authenticity, and the significance of everyday moments.

[36:45] Patton Oswalt: "This is a great thing that humans do... Everything changes you."

He criticized the obsession with external validations, such as social media metrics, advocating instead for genuine experiences and personal growth.

[13:36] Patton Oswalt: "I'm never getting married. I was very honest when I was in my 20s... now I don't think that way."

His approach to parenting emphasized allowing his daughter to explore and make her own mistakes, valuing presence over perfection.

[65:00] Patton Oswalt: "Some people just absolutely go, I'm not gonna try. I'm not bothering. There's wisdom in that."

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Closing Reflections

In the concluding moments, Oswalt reiterated his dedication to comedy as a lifelong pursuit, valuing the connection with his audience and the continuous search for humor.

[61:33] Patton Oswalt: "There's something really beautiful and fulfilling in that. And I don't know why that gets so vilified and attacked."

He also touched upon his future aspirations, focusing on meaningful projects and maintaining his love for stand-up comedy in more intimate settings.

[80:42] Patton Oswalt: "I just like doing interesting little films. The film industry seems to be going through a very weird spasm right now."

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Notable Quotes

• [02:22] Patton Oswalt: "I don't have that ability to sit down with a notebook and just write jokes."

• [06:40] Patton Oswalt: "We shouldn't be in a world where... we shouldn't be in a world where..."

• [09:18] Patton Oswalt: "Just do something. You know, obviously, no one can. No one can do everything but show up."

• [36:45] Patton Oswalt: "This is a great thing that humans do... Everything changes you."

• [61:33] Patton Oswalt: "I am searching for what is truly deeply funny... it's a search."

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Conclusion

The episode offered an intimate glimpse into Patton Oswalt's multifaceted life, blending humor with profound reflections on society, personal loss, and the enduring pursuit of creativity. Oswalt's candidness and depth provided listeners with both laughter and meaningful insights, encapsulating why he remains a cherished figure in the world of comedy and beyond.

Transcript

[Host]

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

[Patton Oswalt]

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[Advertiser]

Like your dinner dates.

[Patton Oswalt]

How are we splitting the bill? Um, evenly.

[Host]

Well, I only got soup.

[Patton Oswalt]

Let's Split it on PayPal based on what people ate. Get started in the PayPal app. A PayPal account is required to send and receive money.

[Host]

Welcome to South Beach Sessions. I'm very excited about this one. You are. You seem like I've never met you, but you seem like a delightful person, both jagged and huggable. It's a tough thing to pull off. Patton Oswalt with us. Actor, comedian, writer. I imagine you identify most as comedian, right?

[Patton Oswalt]

Although comedian. Yeah.

[Host]

I want to talk to you about so many different things, but the first thing I wanted to start with is your father, as a military man, named you after a World War II general.

[Patton Oswalt]

He did. An insane World War II general.

[Host]

He must be so disappointed in you, though.

[Patton Oswalt]

You know, he's the opposite because he. My dad was a marine. He did three tours in Vietnam, and I remember him saying, I never, ever want you or your brother going to war or joining the military forces. It is so he was. When I veered into comedy, he was very happy. He's like, you're doing good. Cause he always loved. I mean, he loved Jonathan Winters and the Smothers Brothers and David Letterman, all that stuff. So the fact that I went into comedy, I think made him very, very happy.

[Host]

When and how did you go into comedy?

[Patton Oswalt]

I went in. In the summer of 88. It was. I'm sure you've experienced. Everyone's experienced this. A version of this. The summer between freshman and sophomore year of college when you start to realize, oh, I need to figure my life out. I better figure out what I'm gonna do with myself. And I just started doing a bunch of different jobs, and none of them were clicking. They were all doing fine, but it was like, if I lost this job, I wouldn't care. And then I went and did a couple open mics in D.C. and I just loved the hang and the world and the people. The fact that I was upstream of all the humor I was at its source and seeing where it was coming out. I just loved it.

[Host]

So you loved the people being in the back of the restaurant or the.

[Patton Oswalt]

Bar and, like, watching them sit around and kind of volley back and forth a vague idea that would then keep getting refined and bounce around until it turned into a bit. It was like, oh, people create stuff out of thin air. There's no they. There's no them that's separate from us. Because these guys would come in and they'd bitch about a parking ticket they'd gotten or, oh, my fridge broke and half my food is spoiled. And then they would sit and write jokes like it was. That wasn't their whole. Some people that I knew, that was like their life. And the hassles of it was their life. And these were like, I still have those same hassles. And then I create stuff on top of it. And there was something really. There was like something even more human about that, that in the face of every other hassle that every other person is facing, I'm gonna also think of something funny and try to make money off of it.

[Host]

Well, that's what you're still doing, right? I imagine your mind doesn't stop very much. I imagine you're always sort of doing material as you're driving around and the world happens to you.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, I don't have that.

[Host]

You are doing that amazingly, by the way, in the first two minutes that we've been on together, in the clearing of your throat, it's been the clearing of the throat of a 400 pound lumberjack.

[Patton Oswalt]

Nice.

[Host]

If they're listening to it on audio, it is just. You're clearing everything out.

[Patton Oswalt]

Hell, yeah. All right. By the way, I'm swinging kettlebells while we do this. If you're just listening, there are kettlebells being swung and I'm eating a giant stack of pancakes because I gotta go top trees up in Coos Bay. Yeah, I'm always. But I'm not. I wish I could. I don't have that ability to sit down with a notebook and just write jokes. I. As you said, I drive around and deal with my day. And while I'm walking around and dealing with my morning or my afternoon, I'm thinking of things. And so it's very, very conversational. However, I'm talking to you off stage. I kind of go on stage and I'm still talking that same way. I just try to make it funny. So, I mean, it's just the way I think about the world. I don't even. It Isn't even a defense mechanism at this point. It's a comfort zone that I have to be in. Because if I get to. I was thinking this this morning, by the way, the fact that I really have realized. I hate the phrase that comedians are the truth tellers and the philosophers. It's like, shouldn't we be comedians and our politicians and philosophers and journalists should be the truth tellers standing up for people so that the audiences I perform for, I can say silly shit that I made up that amuses them in this better world they're living in. We shouldn't be in a world where. Well, hopefully. Because that means we're living in medieval times. That means the king is just sitting there going, well, I just passed a law where I get to sleep with all your daughters. And I know that feels terrible, but here comes a corn cob, the farting dwarf, and he's going to say that I'm fat, and that'll balance it all out. Like, that's not how. No, there should be people setting that stuff right so that I can do jokes.

[Host]

You don't want the responsibility? Because I understand wanting to be.

[Patton Oswalt]

I don't want the responsibility. But why is it all on? How is it switched so badly that it's the comedians that are pointing out the truth more than. Yeah. I mean, by the way, there were people, you know, Lenny Bruce and George Carlin were also pointing out the truths, but they were doing it in a world where then, you know, that that was the setup for. And then the press and government will also step in and hopefully try to right these wrongs. And that's completely reversed.

[Host]

Now I understand how it is.

[Patton Oswalt]

The government's just openly. People in power are just openly bragging about, oh, we're absolutely breaking the laws. Do a funny joke about it to make these people feel better while we do it to them. I feel like I'm abetting them, screwing people over by giving people a temporary laugh. But it's like, I'm not equipped to affect policy and make change. I know how to tell really good jokes, and that should be where my responsibility begins and ends. It's still a responsibility, but we've become so skewed. I don't know. I was thinking about that this morning while I was getting ready to come here. I was like, why are we the Somebody Somebody? I think they wrote on, like, blue sky, like, the comedians are the last truth tellers. I'm like, we should be the first truth tellers in. And then eight other truth tellers pick up the Take the ball from us and run it into the end zone. And that's not happening anymore.

[Host]

It seems kind of perfect in the apocalyptic times that we are, that we would put the court jesters in charge. But I do blame Jon Stewart for this. He became the trusted newsman as the media fell apart and the anchors fell apart.

[Patton Oswalt]

But in his defense, he kept screaming at the top of his lungs, you should not be getting your news from me. You should be watching whatever news you can. However good it is, however bad it is, it was never great. And then I should be Eric Severide, who comes on after Walter Cronkite and go, here's what all this means. But I shouldn't be your source of news. But, yeah, it became the source of news, and the news had to become entertaining and funny.

[Host]

I'm curious how you stay out of hopeless in this regard, because I saw you perform. I've seen you perform recently in Miami, and I saw you perform at the Largon. At the time, you and Marc Maron were both doing things. And both of you, as truth tellers, are people who. I rely on their sensibilities in the world to amuse me and also inform me. But I imagine that you can feel hopeless given what's presently happening right now.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, there's days I'm completely hopeless. And instead of hopelessness is like a day that you cheat on your diet. You can't throw it all away because you had one bad day. Like, okay, I had a bad day. I sank there. I'll show up again tomorrow with something. It's weird you mentioned Mark. Cause I text him all the time about the state of comedy, and I'm way more wound up and angry about it. And he's like, you just sit and stew about this and make yourself get angry. He's hit this level. I wouldn't say it's despair, but it's like this. I know what I can do in the world, and I also know what I can't do in the world. And I don't let that absence make me throw the whole thing out the window. I show up and do what I can. What was the thing that Cory Booker. I'm sure he was paraphrasing somebody, but he said, just because you can't do everything shouldn't mean that you don't do anything. Do something. You know, obviously, no one can't. No one can do everything but show up. Just. Just in. In terms of it being a life force of, like, I'm still alive and I'm still Here. And. And, yeah, some days I feel like Steve McQueen floating on the coconuts at the end of Papillon. Just, I'm still alive, you bastards. But sometimes just being alive is a. Is a victory.

[Host]

Well, but the two of you basically, as I recall, gave us eight to 10 years, not as a country, but as a planet. I believe the two of you arrived in consensus on.

[Patton Oswalt]

I think he actually gave us longer. I think when I was in Miami especially, that was two months after the election. I think I said, when society does collapse, and let's be honest, February, I think I gave it like two months. I mean, I had no hope at that point. He still has. I think the reason he's saying seven to eight years is because I think he wants to give himself time to buy property up in Canada and get out of here. You know, where I'm just like. I think it's just too late. We're all going to be stuck at the border trying to get out.

[Host]

Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Patton Oswalt]

So if you want some hope, listen to Marin, because my timeline is way harsher.

[Host]

How do you enjoy at this age what I would imagine from over here to be the most confidence you've ever had in what it is that you do and perhaps who you are?

[Patton Oswalt]

I enjoy the fact that I know just, again, you can't. How do I put this? I think a lot of people in this business destroy themselves because they're like, why aren't I at this level? Or, why aren't I this person? Why aren't I filling this arena? And they forget the fact that if you are making a living just by telling jokes, you have won. You have absolutely won life's lottery. And so you see these people that go insane or like, I was going to be a movie star. Like, I was the lead in a movie and it tanked. It's like, okay, then go be a character actor. Getting character actor and sidekick roles in movies is fantastic. Still, 99% of people don't get to do that. So I don't know why you are eating yourself alive. Like, you still get to. You get to live a creative life that. I mean, when. Again, I'm only saying this now because when I was younger, I was absolutely wound up.

[Host]

I was gonna say, it's interesting that.

[Patton Oswalt]

I would burn myself down because of that. And Now I'm, like, 56 years old. I get to. I was. I got to do an episode of Star Trek. I get to go on the road and do shows. My friends are all comedians or writers or creative People, my life is books and movies and, and cups of tea. I'm happy. I don't know why, you know, like, I'm trying to be as happy as I can and then also try to give a little bit back to like, this society, this whatever you want to call it, this country has been very good to me. Why not give a little bit back? Because I've got, you know, something good here. So.

[Host]

But how'd you arrive there? Like, because comedy is very competitive and it's always a mental health challenge. Everybody listening or watching this. There's a mental health challenge in looking at what everyone else is life looks like, especially with social media and comparing yourself.

[Patton Oswalt]

You wake up in the morning and you open up that phone, it's like, let me invite chaos and despair into my morning. I haven't even had, I haven't, I haven't bitten a single strawberry, but I have consumed 8,000 megabytes of chaos. What, what kind of morning is that? Yeah, I mean, I, I think that especially to younger comedians, if you are going, if you're comparing and despairing and getting all that, I kind of, and I know this sounds kind of mean, I think you actually have to go through that. I think you have to like, go through the drink too much, smoke too much, realize how bad it is so that you can come out to the other side. I don't think you can fast forward wisdom. You also, and when you get older, you shouldn't white knuckle your youth. You should also accept the fact that, okay, I'm older now, I'm not the hip person. I'm maybe not, you know, no, maybe I don't have anything to. Or yes, I have something to say to 20 year olds, but they don't want to hear that right now. They want to be allowed. There's something so frustrating, especially about boomers and to a lesser extent, Gen X, where we always want to go. But I'm trying to prevent you from making the mistakes. I'm just like, I want to make those mistakes and I should be allowed to. So don't try to. You know, when someone is in their 50s and you're in your 20s, you're like, well, let me tell you, it's like, let me go find out for myself. Even if I totally screwed up, can I just go find. Cause you did and you're alive.

[Host]

That sounds nice. Philosophically, I don't imagine that you're able to always do that with your daughter.

[Patton Oswalt]

So sometimes, no, there's times when I go, would you just please I'm telling. But I do try to approach it from the. Listen, I know exactly why you want to do this, because you have to. And you're probably going to experience it anyway, even though I really, really don't want you to. But I. And I don't. I don't. But spoiler alert, this is where it'll end. And I'm just telling you, this is where it'll end. And I'm only saying this because I had that. I was. Had it totally mapped out. I saw the mistakes people before me made. I'm not going to make those mistakes. And you're still going to make them. So maybe you should go make them. But I'm just letting you know, when you come on the other, at the other side of this, I'm not going to be there going, I told you so. I'm going to be there going, welcome, welcome to no man's land. I'm here.

[Host]

When did you learn this, though? Like, when was there a shift for you on who I am and what I am is enough and I'm going to not be the person who welcomes chaos again.

[Patton Oswalt]

There's not a permanent shift. There are still days when I see something that someone is doing and I get, God damn it. And where the fuck is that guy? That will never totally go away. But my reaction to it is now different. What I used to have was just being angry and resentful and living an enemy centered life. Now I still have the initial angry and resentful reaction, but I have more options of how to process it than I'm older and I can wink and laugh at the. Oh, you could totally go down this road. There actually is some benefits to living vengefully sometimes, you know, especially if you're like, I'm gonna lose 30 pounds, these motherfuckers, you know, or I'm gonna. So look, some. There have been some genuinely great things done out of vengeance. There just have been. I'm sorry. There have been great things done out of vengeance. Great art has come out of vengeance. The last. Michelangelo's Last Judgment has this amazing. There's this amazing demonic figure painted with his fat donkey ears and a snake around his belly. He's in the lower right hand corner of the painting and he was. That was a guy. He was the Pope's master of ceremonies and I cannot remember his name right now, Cesare or Cesuri. Anyway, he was tormenting Michelangelo while he was painting that. This. The Last Judgment because he was a failed painter and a failed sculptor and very, very jealous of Michelangelo. He's like, well, now I'm in charge of this, so I'm gonna make him blah, blah, blah. And he would go back to the Pope and go, well, he's painting Jesus without a beard. And Pope's like, well, you gotta go tell him, you know, and just, you know, in other words, it was his way of going, I, it's Michelangelo and I are doing this painting even though he's a fucking loser. So Michelangelo finally had it and he painted the guy Biagio di Cesna.

[Host]

Anyway, he put him in it.

[Patton Oswalt]

He painted him as this horrifying demon, pot belly. And it's so clearly his face. Donkey ears. And then he went back to the Pope and was like, he's painted me as a demon in hell. And at that point, the Pope had had enough of him. He goes, I have no jurisdiction over Hel. And just basically told him, you're fucked for eternity. Everyone's gonna see this painting forever. And you're this pot bellied, donkey eared demon with a snake around your belly. But again, that's a beautiful aspect of a beautiful piece of art that was absolutely done out of vengeance. I mean, Dante's Inferno is all vengeance. It's all petty revenge on people that fucked him over. And so was Joyce's Ulysses was all settling scores with local people in Dublin.

[Host]

You've proved your point. Vengeance can be okay. Were you in fact living an enemy centered life?

[Patton Oswalt]

There have been times when I've lived in. There's times that I've done bits or jokes that without saying it, it's in response to a bit or a joke that I thought was lame or like, why the fuck would you. That's so stupid. So I would go the other. Or, you know, what did Chris Rock say? Don't get mad, get funnier. So sometimes getting funnier is a form of vengeance. You know, just be funnier.

[Host]

So not everyone can do that one.

[Patton Oswalt]

No. But there's way you can become better at whatever it is you are. And that's how you. And also then, I mean, if we're just gonna stay with vengeance, the ultimate vengeance is actually becoming happy with what it is you're doing. And you're just ignoring the other people. The way to truly dismantle a narcissist is just to go, I don't care, that's fine. Yeah, but I'm doing this great. Not what I want to do. I mean, that's the thing that I've always thought about. Like in the movie Animal House at the end, except for otter punching Greg Marmalard. Remember, he punches him, but that's the only actual physical revenge. All the other. At the end of it, the Deltages leave the college and go live their lives successfully. And then all the Omegas go and live their lives and it all goes to shit. And sometimes that's how you win, is just going, I'm fucking leaving, and going, doing something cooler and more fun. I don't need to do all this shit.

[Host]

Well, it seems like that is where you've arrived again. I've been watching your career from afar for a long time, but I believe it tells quite the story through. Through turbulence, through self awareness, through grief, through hardship. And it just. It seems like your act is crafted in a place that has total confidence in it.

[Patton Oswalt]

Well, I'm confident in that. Being on stage is one of the few places I feel confident. So, yeah, that confidence is going to come through. But I'm also confident in accepting the fact that whatever turbulence comes my way because I've come out the other side of so much genuine pain and loss and turbulence that some thing, some things now that people take as life ending some, you know, like massive ownage on the Internet or people attacking you, I'm like, that's just electrons. I don't give a sh. You know, like, I just want to do what I think is right and what I feel is the right decision. And if people are either happy with it or not. But if they're not, it's just electrons. It doesn't matter.

[Host]

40S, 50s, 30s, late 30s. Like, what age were you where that person active?

[Patton Oswalt]

Again, not to the thing that I'm telling you right now. This perspective is maybe a week old, and a week later there'll be an even better perspective. I'm at that stage now where there aren't gigantic epiphanies, there are awarenesses, and then there are the, oh, I can choose to react to this awareness, but all this other stuff about me is never gonna totally go away. You just have to learn to manage it. You just have to learn to manage it. One of the most important movies that I think that came out in 1999 and for a long time is the movie the Sixth Sense. Because at the end of the movie, the kid is not cured of seeing dead people. What he learns is, this is never going away. This will be here. How can you manage it? Bruce Willis character says, what do you think these people are trying to say to you? And the kid is like, maybe this has nothing to do with me. Maybe it has to do with them, and I can actually help them and I can actually go live a life. So he's still. He's living a better life at the end, he's still seeing these people. I feel like I'm living a better life. I still get resentful. I still get jealous. I still get racked with self doubt. That stuff will continue to happen, but it won't own me. It'll be a thing that's there. I'm like, oh, there you are again. Okay, what's going on? All right, we're gonna do this then.

[Host]

Oh. There's real serenity, though, in the awareness of knowing you are not your thoughts. You're the one observing your thoughts. Especially with someone like you, though I imagine your mind has rewarded you in a great many ways. It took me a long time to realize my mind was poisoned.

[Patton Oswalt]

It took me so, so long to separate myself from. Oh, my God. If I have this thought, then that must be who I am. No, you're allowed any thought. You know, that's the thing you. And again, so many great works. Do you think Thomas Harris created one of the most horrifying serial killers ever? Fake, but still horrifying. Hannibal Lecter. But when he thought of him, was he like, do I want to kill people and people? No, but he's. But your mind is allowed to imagine horrible things without it being you. That's. I mean, that's the basis of all creativity, you know? But so many people, I think, and I think we've been so poisoned with social media, which is like, everything that you tweet, that's who you are, or that's. If you retweet it, that's who you are. People forget at the very beginning of the. Especially Twitter, you could retweet somebody saying something ridiculous. And it was understood that you're just holding this up, like, can you fucking believe this? You weren't endorsing it. And then somewhere along the line, it shifted. And people are like, you are. Obviously that's how you feel. And I got in some trouble with that because there was a guy, I think his name is, like, Steve Saylor, total white supremacist dude. And he said something about, like, something like, political correctness is a war on noticing, like, something. It was so ridiculous. And I just tweeted that, but I was still in the mind of, like, look at this fucking idiot. And then people are like, oh. So I guess you. You know, so, like, oh, something shifted. And I didn't realize. I was too slow to see that you know, you can't do. We were. Look, we were way too slow to see that the pointing out racism by being ironically racist or being like that doesn't work anymore. There's no. There's no abstract thought left in anybody. So you have to actually either point out that something sucks, but you can't personify it the way that like a Ricky Gervais or an Albert Brooks used to do, or even a Don Rickles. You know, I think when people forget about Don Rickles, it was so brilliant about him. And he never explained it. Cause he didn't have to was. He's a Jewish guy in show business. He has seen racism you can't even imagine. So he would always personify the worst of these people that he saw. But he didn't bother to add the. And you know, this is terrible. He would just say that with the assumption that, you know, this. I'm saying the dumbest shit imaginable. And also, this guy never wins. He always loses. He always gets. The people get the better of me. That's what I'm making fun of here, you know, but. And then things again. We lost abstract thought. And then near the end of their lives, people like Joan Rivers, who laid across the fucking barbed wire for people to cross and get to do dangerous comedy, started attacking her. It's like she did the. She's the one that. Anyway, sorry, man, we went way off topic.

[Host]

I hope to.

[Patton Oswalt]

We were talking about dolphin fishing. What were we. What are we talking about?

[Host]

I hope to do more of this. I want to go way off topic with you. And I also want to bring you back. You said sixth sense in 1999. I want to know about this time in your life where you were clearly addicted to movies. Oh, yeah, this is 95 through 99.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yep. Four years.

[Host]

You watch. Do I have the number right? 720 movies that you've put a number on the number of movies you were going to see at the cinema.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, 720 films in cinemas.

[Host]

What was happening other than a love of film?

[Patton Oswalt]

It was a kid who always loved movies growing up, but lived in, had very limited access to them or had them only on videotape. There weren't a lot of rep theaters in Northern Virginia. There were in dc but it was hard to get into dc. I couldn't. I had to. Like, you know, sometimes I would. A couple times I did skip school, I would fake an illness and then sneak into the city and go to the Janus or the Biograph and, you know, if it was like a Kurokurosara film. But that wasn't. But Now I'm in LA and there are. At the time in the 95, it was rep theaters everywhere, you know, Tales Cafe, New Beverly. It was just. It was all over the place. And I could just go and consume these movies and not just watch movies, but I could watch them with an audience. That's what was the important thing was watching what still landed with people and what didn't anymore. And that was something I had never really gotten to experience the way that I wanted to. And I just got really, really addicted to that thrill, to being wired into that mind. And this was before the Internet, where that's where you went to really be wired into the zeitgeist. And, you know, I couldn't get enough of it.

[Host]

Can you explain to us sort of where and how it shaped you creatively, this particular period of intense study? Really? Because you're even watching movies just to be transported. You're watching because you want to see the art of how things get made.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah. I mean, one of the ways it really, really affected me creatively was there were always moments in films where they would cut off and I'm like, no, show the show that part. Why aren't you showing that part? That should be the start of a movie. And then that kind of became how I wrote a lot of my comedy was about these weird non. I was also very much influenced by Brian Regan. Brian Regan is the king of looking at those moments in life where you're like, this is an absolute waste of time. This is something that you block out because it's something you got to do so I can get to the creative stuff. And he realizes, no, there's actual real life happening right here, like ordering a dozen donuts. There's kind of cosmic significance to this. And he would explore that. So I, Because I'd watch so many movies and see so many movies would follow the same rhythm. And the ones that didn't and the ones that went other places made me so happy that I would remember those moments and then try to put those moments into my writing, into my comedy. Now I do comic books, and a lot of those are about. Because I read a lot of comic books and there's a lot of superhero comics that look at part. I'm like, show the parts that you're not showing. That would be so much more fascinating. How does this person live with these powers and what would that be like? So I always want what is going on in the margins or what is. How does real Life. Actually, there's a great movie called the Matador. Pierce Brosnan and Greg Kinnear and, oh, my God, Hope, she was in Ghost World. I'm blanking on her name. This is so embarrassing.

[Host]

This happens with age.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, with age.

[Host]

And there's a lot in there. There's only so much room for the stuff in your head. Some of it's got to go to the side.

[Patton Oswalt]

Crazy's also sad. 20 minutes from now, I will come up with her.

[Host]

Well, you'll do it during this. You will not leave this pot. You will drive home frustrated if you don't come up with this name. I'm gonna have producers working around the clock the rest of the time that we're here to find what Hope's last name is for you. But I don't think that'll satisfy you either, because you want to come up with a year's.

[Patton Oswalt]

I don't want to come up with that anyway.

[Host]

Stay with me. Don't.

[Patton Oswalt]

But there's a great moment where the first half of the film, Greg Kinnear's on vacation. He meets Pierce Brosnan, who's a hitman who's kind of, like, losing his mind. And on his last job. And then they hang out together, and Pierce Brosnan kind of takes him on a hit, doesn't kill somebody with him, but shows him, here's how you would kill somebody, and literally walks him through this sequence. It's so well done. And that's the first half. And then Greg Kinnear goes back to his suburban life in Lake Ohio somewhere. And then Pierce Brosnan is in some kind of trouble. He either botches a job or something. I forget what that part of it. And he goes and finds Greg Kinnear to go hide out with him and comes in the house, and Greg Kinnear's like, oh, this is the guy that I was telling you about. And you see Pierce Bras character. Like, I better think of, like, you can see him almost about to go, I am a carpet salesman, you know? And then Hope goes, oh, this is the hitman you hung out with? And, like, a lesser movie would make it, like, yeah, he's a carpet sale. And then they gotta do all this bullshit. No, you would go home and go, I was in Mexico on this business trip, and this guy, he was a hitman, and he showed me how to. I didn't kill anybody. But that's what he does. It was really weird. And you would just go back to your life and like, no, obviously, neither of you are gonna report to the police, I don't wanna be killed. But it was just a weird thing. And then she goes, oh, yeah, that's that hitman you were with. And then the movie proceeds from there. Rather than doing all this tired ass stuff, it goes in such a totally different direction. And it just made me so happy. Like moments like that where you're like, oh. Or there's an issue of Animal man where a villain comes to Animal Man's house and he's wrecking the place and then he's about to kill Animal Man. He goes, oh. Cause Animal Man's the guy is in his boxer briefs and he goes, go, put your costume on. I'm not gonna shoot you in your underwear. This is stupid. And the wife comes in and he goes, what are you doing? What, did you wreck someone's house? Get out of here. And the villain goes, oh, frick this. And he just leaves. He's just like, this is. And that's kind of how that would go. Like, you're in my house in this stupid costume. You're breaking things. Leave, I'll call the cops. And he goes, all right, fine. And he just leaves. That was so. More moments like that, I think we keep being pushed toward. Oh, you gotta have the big moments, the big epiphanies, the big dramatic, instagramable stuff, but the real growth and the real, real deep memory stuff happens in the un. Cinematic, clumsy moments. That's where you actually, if you can slow down and look at how both you and other people around you are acting in the boring moments in line in a bank, stuck in traffic. You learn so much more about yourself in those moments. If you're able to slow down and pick that up and not go, dude, we're wasting time. I should be having experiences. You are having an experience.

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[Patton Oswalt]

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[Patton Oswalt]

See DKNG Co Audio.

[Host]

Whether it's comic books or movies, were you escaping something in childhood or were you just enjoying creativity, dreaming, imagination?

[Patton Oswalt]

I didn't have a bad childhood. I had a fun child. I had a really fun childhood. I had friends, parents were great, we would go on adventures and do weird stuff. But it was just like, I get to have this fun reality. And then there's all this. Then there's augmented reality. Then there's also, if I'm sitting here, I can read a book and it's a whole other world. Or I can watch a movie. And like, why would you not add to that? I mean, if you wanted to, you could eat raw starch, raw protein, some citrus and fluid and saline and live. But you're like, no, you can also have this and this and this. And some of it's bad for you, but it still tastes good and you'll recover from it. Like, there's shitty tv, there's terrible movies, there's awful concerts to go to, there's bad people you're gonna encounter. You can recover from that.

[Host]

So just living. You were just living. You are enjoying stimuli, all sorts of.

[Patton Oswalt]

Things, and people create stuff. I get to read it. This is great. We get to. As people, we get to do this. This is a great thing that humans do. All animals do is run around and try to survive. Every second they're just trying to survive. And we can sit and just. I'm gonna. I'm on another planet right now and all I gotta do is open this book. And you open a book and sounds and smells and sensations flood your brain. I don't think people realize how miraculous opening a book is, what it does to you. You're literally just. You're tripping. You're microdosing on just symbols on paper. That's fucking insane that we get to do that.

[Host]

And you've always liked it. Like, it was. You wanted, like early on in life. Cause you said freshman, sophomore year, you're still searching. But you realize at some point I.

[Patton Oswalt]

Wanted to do something creative. I mean, I wanted to be a writer and I was always writing through high school, but I didn't know, like, how am I going to make it pay or something. And I just. It was just that I was having those lost years. And I'm being kind of protective of my daughter right now of her, because she's in ninth grade and she goes, yeah, but this thing will look good for college. I'm like, you have some lost years. You can just mess around. Not everything has to be for college, for the cv, for the gram. Just have moments, just do things. They don't have to mean anything right now.

[Host]

Oh, but if she grows up in your household, I would imagine ambition would be something that.

[Patton Oswalt]

Well, yeah, but there's ambition. But then there's also. Actually, yeah, I can't judge it that much because I was very driven and ambitious from a very young age. Once I realized comedy is what I wanted to do, I was driven. But it just seems to me that we are now living in the vengeance of people who just were grinding from an early age and never. Cause yes, I was grinding, but I was also experiencing stuff. I was traveling, having wasted nights with friends, just doing stuff. And now you're. But now we seem to be at the mercy of all these tech bros and crypto bros and people that. And there's nothing wrong with, like, I want to make as much money as possible. If that's what turns you on. Absolutely do that. But they're now hitting their 40s and they're realizing I don't really have any memories. I don't really have any interests. And I think that they suspect the people that hang out with me are hanging out with me because I have a house full of toys and a cool yacht. But they wouldn't be doing this. They wouldn't come over to my shitty apartment and play video games with me because there's. There's no me here. So then they're trying to. They're insisting on coolness, as if the world owes me this. I have the most money. I should be thought of as cool. I don't even need to name names. You know who I'm talking about right now.

[Host]

Well, I imagine you're watching these people who have come by money, power, and influence, and you see high school playing out all over again for them where it's just silliness. You've arrived. Yes, I know who you're talking about. But whoever's keeping score with money, that. It feels like there's some really overt high school insecurities on display in adulthood.

[Patton Oswalt]

It reminds me of the kids in school that would be like, I have perfect attendance. Like, if you don't have straight A's, you shouldn't brag about having perfect attendance, because it means nothing. It just means that you showed up every day like a rat hitting a lever. But it also means you didn't learn anything. You know, if. I don't know why people brag about perfect attendance if you don't have straight A's, you know, I skipped school, and I have better grades than you. And when I skipped school, I would either I'd stay home all day and watch movies, or I'd sneak into the city, or my friends and I would go, you know, I didn't skip school all the time. I wasn't a bad kid. But it was just like, go have a. It was really telling. It was really telling. When that. The. When that footage leaked, they called it a leak of AOC in college on that rooftop with her friends dancing and being a goofball. And they were like, that's the end of her political career. This is it. It's like. And anyone else watching was like, that's what we. That's what you do in college. You hang out with your friends. And you realize these people never did that. They never did that. Or. And it wasn't that they were ever excluded or ostracized. They got invited to parties, but they're like, I gotta grind. I gotta grind. Cause then I'll show these people, and then they'll all think I'm cool. And then they get to that point where they're like, they have all the money, but there's nothing to talk about. You know, they own a $100,000 rare sound system. And then you look at their LP collection and it's the best of U2, best of Blondie, Best of. Like, are there any actual albums or groups that you like that the album itself means something to you? But I have the best of all their stuff, and I'm playing it on the most expensive thing. It's like, but you're not getting any pleasure from this, you know, and nobody wants to. So we're gonna have to live through that vengeance right now. We're gonna have to live through. And again, I hope a lot of the. I'm not wishing ill will on any of them, except for the ones that are, like, actively damaging people out of vengeance because they're angry about their horrible. And again, it wasn't that they were. It wasn't that they had horrible childhoods. They chose horrible childhoods thinking there was some kind of reward at the end of it. It's like, no, the reward is doing all your crazy shit when you're young and 15 and have the ability to recover. And that's when you get to have your crazy adventures. You can't wait till you're in your 60s and then demand some kid be your blood bag. So then you can have your 20s and your 70s. That doesn't make any sense. Fucking sense.

[Host]

You mentioned Star Trek, and I imagined that Mystery Science Theater was something as a project that would have been super personal and fun for you.

[Patton Oswalt]

Loved that show. When I was really young, that show was such a. Really shaped how I approached just creativity and life. Because when you think about that show. Oh, fuck. Okay. That show actually mirrors our current situation. Because think about that show. There's two billionaire evil scientists, Dr. Forrester and then Frank, his sidekick, and they own everything and they're gonna take over the world and they're fucking miserable. They hate each other. They don't know how to have fun. They've trapped this guy on a satellite and they're sending him shitty movies to break his spirit. And then they're watching him and the robots having fun and making jokes in their horrible situation. And it drives them like, we should be the ones who are happy. I think it's the same thing. Like when rich, weird, rich white billionaires look at a little DIY punk show or some little hip hop show in a small space, or people just doing. And they're like, how the fuck are these People happy because they have a thing that they actually love doing. Nothing makes them angrier than watching a little independently owned bicycle store. Like, that's all you do is Fitz bikes. And you have just enough money to live in a shitty apartment and eat shitty food. Yeah. And I'm really. And they look at their face go, that guy is so fucking. How the fuck is he happy? I have the most expensive wagyu beef in my house. I have this painting. It's a piece of shit, But I paid 10 million and that should be respected. You know, this motherfucker, like, they. It drives them crazy because they don't. They never learned how to access joy. And that's what. If you watch Mystery Science Theater, that is the tension of that show. It's these two guys who are in. They're the jailers. But all they have is they have more liberty than Joel. They don't have more freedom than Joel. And it's driving them insane.

[Host]

The question I was asking is about projects that gave you the most joy to do. No, clearly this summoned. I figured that that would one of them. Because to. To. Yeah, I. But what else would you put on? On. If your resume has a lot of different stuff on it, what are some of the things that most honor you? Because you're like, I can't believe I got to do that.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, I mean, I. I just always wanted to do stuff that I thought was interesting. A lot of my metrics are. Well, if I'm going to be really honest, my two metrics are, I'm in this for the money and the anecdotes. I want really cool stories and I'd like to make some money. But I also love the. I love getting a project where you're like, how are they gonna pull this off? I have to say yes to this. You know, so when, like Boots Riley sends me, you know, sorry to bother your. I'm like, there's horse mutants and there's. I'm someone's white voice. How the. I have to do it. You know, you have to do that. Or when there was a group called 5 Second Films and they did this amazing movie. It's called Dude Bro Party Massacre Part three. And it's been one of those. It's like this love and hate letter to all these 80s slasher movies. Like, I can't even describe how brilliant this thing is. And it had this tiny release and it's slowly one of those things that, like, everyone that sees it is like, oh my God, this thing is brilliant. And it's And I had to, like, yeah, always say yes to the weird interesting thing. Cause again, it just gives you better memories too, you know? Also say yes to the thing. That's gonna be a really cool adventure. Like, obviously, I would love to work with a Scorsese or a Tarantino or a Kathryn Bigelow, but I'd also kind of like to work with Yui Bol, just because, you know, that's gonna be an insane. You know, or Harmony Chorine. Just for the. For the stories, like something truly brilliant's gonna happen.

[Host]

But you also embrace weird in a way that most people don't.

[Patton Oswalt]

Well, because weird isn't weird to me. The weird people. The weird people to me are the people that are trying to act so normal. Those are the ones that always make me put my, you know, my spidey senses up. Like, you're being a little too normal. It's the people that. And the quote unquote, weird are never. They never think that they're weird. Like someone like Maria Bamford or John Waters. They. They think they're the normal one. I'm actually reacting to this world in the. In a. Based on what the world is. This is a sane reaction to it. This is not weird at all. So that kind of. I'm so much more attracted to that kind of living that. That kind of living design.

[Host]

Do you have, though, a project that you think of when you think of this made me happiest to do or while I was doing it. Your TV career began with Seinfeld. I don't even know how much you actually like some of this stuff, because it's got all sorts of restrictions that comedy and standup doesn't have, where it's just you and you don't have to collaborate.

[Patton Oswalt]

I am all. This is gonna sound weird. I am all for restrictions. I don't understand everyone that's like, you should be able to say anything. It's like, guys, no. The restrictions are there for you to find clever, diabolical ways around it and then get to say it. If everything is allowed, then there's no danger or fun to it. You gotta have. I want that outlaw element, you know, and all this stuff about cancer culture. Who the fuck has been canceled? Everyone that they talk about has been canceled is filling arenas. The only people that have been canceled are the ones who've actually committed, like, sex crimes. They're not. But they haven't been shut down because of what they said. Those are fucking rapists. So, you know, Lenny Bruce wasn't raping people. You Know, he found a way around getting shit, you know, saying what he wanted to say until he was unfortunately crushed. But there's ways. I'm not making a good point here, but, like, have some of the. It drives me crazy when people say, like, you couldn't make Blazing Saddles today. Okay, that is such an insult to Mel Brooks. He couldn't make Blazing Saddles then, and he found a way to make it, and he'd find a way to make it now. Cause he's fucking Mel Brooks.

[Host]

Not the restrictions I was talking about. I was just talking about waiting six hours to get on stage.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I know.

[Host]

To do a line opposite Costanza.

[Patton Oswalt]

Even with that, those restrictions, those frustrations. A lot of people turn away from acting because they're like, I gotta sit there for eight fucking hours. Well, you can find a way to make that creative for yourself and find a way to bring something interesting to every single scene that you do, you know, despite the sitting and. Okay, now we gotta do it this way. Now I gotta do it this way. You gotta. You know, I mean, I can't. I've really enjoyed everything that I've ever done, even when it wasn't. Even when the thing itself wasn't great. I've enjoyed being there and watching people I'm with, creative people that are doing their goddamn best. Even bad movies I've been in, people broke their ass to try to make it work. I just love being around people who care about something. So. But, I mean, if you're talking about the ones that gave you the most satisfact doing them, I mean, the run that I did on Justified was fantastic. That was just getting to work with Timothy Olyphant and all those cast members was incredible. There was a show that I did, two shows that I did that both got canceled prematurely. One for Sci Fi called Happy with Chris Maloney. One of the best shows I've ever done. So amazing. Brian Taylor, director. Just an absolute visual genius and one of the most free and unrestricted imaginations I've ever encountered as far as writing is concerned. And then another show for Showtime called United States of Terror. Not only cause I liked my role, but like, getting to work with people like Rosemary DeWitt and especially Toni Collette. And watching them, like, at table reads Toni Collette, like, cold reading a script and going into eight alternate personalities at the drop of a hat, like. And the whole table just like, the fuck are we seeing right now? You know, those experiences, to me, really, really meant a lot.

[Host]

You feel small with those kinds of actors. Right. I'm not even sure how much you could possibly feel like you belong. And what she's dedicated her life to.

[Patton Oswalt]

It makes you feel like you don't belong, but it also makes you make the decision, all right, I gotta step up or I gotta fade away. You know, when I did Young Adult, I was working with Charlize Theron, who's one of the best actors alive. And it's like, you had better show the fuck up or just accept the fact that you're gonna be a blur on the edge of the screen with this actress and not just with her, with. Colette Wolf plays my sister. She has one of the best scenes in the movie, I think, is between Colette Wolf and Charlize Theron. It's incredible. So I always play with people that I'm never the funniest person in my group, and I don't want to be. I want to be around people that are funnier than me because then I up my game.

[Host]

It can't be true that you're never the funniest person in your group.

[Patton Oswalt]

I mean, I've never felt that way. And I'm not saying that out of. I don't believe in false modesty. I'm a funny motherfucker. But I'm as funny as I am because I always have this chorus of people in my head that are like, oh, what's the different angle? I could go here? It makes it fun for me. It doesn't mean that I can just go, oh, here's the obvious joke. And I just love that. I love that. Those are the people that I've surrounded myself with. This episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado. When it's time for you to ditch the blacktop and head off road, do it in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado Trail Boss get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2 inch factory lift, plus impressive torque and towing capacity thanks to an available Duramax 3 liter turbo diesel engine. Where other trucks call it quits. You'll just be getting started. Visit chevy.com to learn more.

[Host]

Did your childhood or home have a lot of funny in it?

[Patton Oswalt]

Oh, yeah. My dad loved comedy. My mom, we would always watch Carol Burnett. And then when I got a little older, I would watch snl. And then I discovered SCTV that my dad also liked. And my dad loved Letterman and yeah, and Monty Python, all that stuff. And my dad would always have comedy albums. He loved comedy.

[Host]

How much military was there in your upbringing?

[Patton Oswalt]

I mean, the only military was if my dad got restationed somewhere and we had to move or there was one year he got assigned to Japan and we didn't go with him. So for a year he was gone, which was a bummer. But he tried to keep the military out of it. He was like, the military was my way out of my situation, but I want to make it so that these guys don't have to do that.

[Host]

Discipline, though, was there.

[Patton Oswalt]

A lot of it was just like, you know, don't be an asshole. Like, you know, do your. But also, I wasn't this crazy, rebellious kid. I mean, I would. Except for a few times playing hooky. I wanted to do well in school so I could go to college and, you know, have a life. I liked reading. I liked. You know, there were certain things I wasn't good at. Math and science, very good at reading and history. So I'm like, okay, that's what I'm gonna focus on.

[Host]

There wouldn't be many places that you fit, though, quite as easily. And as well as we're behind the kitchen or the bar in the comedy club, and this group of people is my group of people. I connect here. And there's a shorthand.

[Patton Oswalt]

Once I got there, I was the back room of this place called Garvin's in Washington, D.C. and we. Watching comedians, like, watching them form a bit. There's a moment like that, and I'm so glad this got captured on camera in the Seinfeld documentary. Comedian. So he.

[Host]

Such a good documentary.

[Patton Oswalt]

Well, he show. Here's what's. It's a good documentary, and it's also a really valuable documentary. And this is why, because there's a sequence where he's working on a bit about think tanks and. And he shows himself on stage with the early version of the bit, and it's not working. He hasn't found it. But you can tell from his energy, he knows something's there, but he hasn't found it. Then we cut to. He's at a table. I think he's at the Olive tree. George Wallace is there, Colin Quinn. And they're just batting. He's like, I got this thing about a think tank and how do you get fired for a think tank? And they're batting it around. And then George Wallace goes, you know, Frank, sometimes you don't think and you just see the light go on for Seinfeld. And I just had so many nights like that where I'm like. I'd go up and the bit wasn't working and Then someone would go, what about this? I'm like, that's where. Yes, that's where it is. So, like, you add and having that resource is always amazing, you know, with other comedians, hanging out with them and batting jokes around.

[Host]

That's where your friendships are. Your friendships. Most of them can be found around the world.

[Patton Oswalt]

Comedians also, other writers, other, you know, people in showbiz. Like, I like. It's not that I'm only exclusive, but I, like people tend to be friends with people who share their interests and share their mindset. So those are my friends.

[Host]

You didn't imagine a career in acting at any point, right? That sort of happened to you?

[Patton Oswalt]

No, no. I imagined a career in writing. Then I stumbled into comedy and was like this. And then comedy just led to act. That's when people ask me, like, give me some advice. I can give people advice on how to act. I can't give them advice on how to get into acting. Cause that just kind of happened without me realizing it. It just happened. I mean, I was in the movie Magnolia because I came off stage at the Largo one night and went back into the kitchen, and Paul Thomas Anderson was standing there. He was like, hey, you want to be in a movie? I'm like, yeah. And then, I mean, I knew who he was. He was hanging around at the Largo.

[Host]

But doing boogie nights at 27 years old.

[Patton Oswalt]

You were just like, hey, you want to be in a movie? I'm like, fuck, yeah, I want to be in a movie. So, you know, I mean, that movie. His movie Hard 8, which I know he wanted to be called Sidney. I've seen that movie, like, 10 times. I think that is just. I mean, out of the gate, that guy knew exactly what he wanted to do.

[Host]

That's hard to believe, though, what he was doing in his 20s. It's just. It's asinine.

[Patton Oswalt]

You can meet talented people, but that I was. I mean, I don't know. I feel like it was his first time on stage, but he says it wasn't. But the first night I went on stage at Garvin's in The summer of 88, Dave Chappelle went up that night. He was 14, I was 19. And he was one of those guys that I remember from the get his. I'm like, oh, this guy's gonna be huge. Like, he had that energy, like he'd been doing it for 30 years. Just killed like, oh, this guy's gonna be huge. Sometimes you just know again, you're just letting that fly.

[Host]

I love that about you, you're totally relaxed and I'm enjoying that you're just releasing. I want everything that's in there. I want you to give it all to us. How much doubt was there along the path, like struggle, hardship before you arrived at something that felt right to you?

[Patton Oswalt]

Not only was there constant doubt, but then there were those rug pulling moments where I thought I'd gotten over the doubt and then ran into something that made me have to rethink everything. And the biggest one for me was started in 88, moved to San Francisco in 92. In those four years I'd learned to become a very, very good road comic. I was starting to feature, but it was just, I was doing stuff that I was pre thinking audiences would already like. There was nothing of me in that. And then I remember I went moved to San Francisco and did a show at the Holy City Zoo. And I was there and it was like these amazing comedians going up. Jeremy Kramer and Greg Barent, Lancan Earle, Laura Milligan, Margaret Cho, like just doing stuff I'd never seen, like stuff they really, really, that they liked. Whether or not the audience liked it, like that's what they like to do. And it was so. And I went up and did my killer road stuff. And it's not that it ate it, but it was mostly comedians. They were just like, well yeah, that stuff that works. And I just realized it was this weird, like, fuck, I gotta up my game, you know, like. And I had to like scrap my whole act and start from zero again. And having that happen and having it not be the end of the world the next day gave me a lot of courage. But that courage came through came from facing some genuine fear and failure.

[Host]

I should tell folks that you can get tickets. Pattonoswalt.com is where you go because you're still grinding, you're still on tour. But it must be because you love it.

[Patton Oswalt]

It, because I love doing it. I love it.

[Host]

Even though you don't love being on the road because I feel like you're a curmudgeon who would like to be at home and not necessarily and in bed by 10:00 and, and, and maybe some melatonin and, and just shut it down. You're not exactly, you know, you're not exactly getting to Miami and having sex with Miami. You're just, you're getting on an early.

[Patton Oswalt]

Flight at that same. At the same time. I still do some theaters, but, but this past year and a half I've discovered I've rediscovered comedy clubs. Getting into a city On a Thursday, doing one show Thursday, two Friday, two Saturday. And I'm getting so much writing done, and in these smaller rooms. Cause you're so much more wired to the audience. You're so much more present. I just shot my newest special in a tiny comedy club in Madison, Wisconsin. This place called Comedy on Stage. Cause I did it last year, and it was like I had not had sets like that. I mean, when you're in theaters, you have good sets in theaters. But there's something. There's a moat of darkness. And in a comedy club, you're right there. You're just. It feels so immediate. And now I kind of crave that. So in between the theater gigs I have coming up, you know, I'm doing the Union Chapel in London in May. I'm doing the Elm in Montana. But then after I do the Elm in Montana, I'm going to the Rialto in Casper, Wyoming. Two shows Friday, two shows Saturday. Little club, Wired in. You know, I'm gonna go back to the comedy works. I'm gonna go back to the Acme. Like, now I get. I can go do these comedy clubs, and I get so much more writing done in those. And I love it.

[Host]

You're one of the great articulators in comedy. Can you explain the love beyond saying you love it? Can you explain that connection to audience, the presence, what the laughter does for you, the validation of it?

[Patton Oswalt]

I think it's the same thing of. I am searching for what is truly deeply funny. And you can't do that by yourself. You always have to do it with an audience. It's like the truly great teachers are the ones who. I hate that phrase. Well, those who can, can. And those who can't, teach. No, some people teach because they truly love a subject, a book, a writer, a discipline, a science, something. But the only way for them to get deeper into it, they've learned. Everything they can learn about it, is to talk about it in front of fresh minds and see what perspectives come their way. And that becomes a search. And there's something really beautiful and fulfilling in that. And I don't know why that gets so vilified and attacked. Where when you see a truly great teacher, you're seeing a person who is on a deep, deep journey, and they'll do it till the day they die. Like, comedy is one of those things where you. I mean, the thing about sports, and it's something also very beautiful about sports, is there is so much risk going on by these athletes. They're basically going, I am Betting my life on this body not breaking down and getting a few profitable years out of this before. I mean, and hopefully I can do things after this. But they are really putting everything on the line like a true athlete. There is something amazing about watching somebody push a body to its limit, not just doing it for the cars or the money. Obviously, they should get all that, but I think it's the same thing. But you can't do that forever. Whereas with comedy and comedy. I saw the Seinfeld documentary with Maria Bamford. We saw it together, and we came out. She was like, that's right. You can do this forever. And I was like, that's right. I can do this forever. Cause if I just keep being honest about whatever, my point of view is. I was very honest when I was in my 20s. I'm never getting married. I was very honest when I was in my 30s. I'm married. We're never having kids. I was very honest about it. I have this daughter. She's awesome. If you're just honest with whatever is going on, right, then you can always reach people and you get to do it forever.

[Host]

Were you or did you know that you were built for parenthood? Did you think you were built for.

[Patton Oswalt]

Never thought that. I don't think anyone truly thinks that they were built for parenthood. I mean, we're innately wired for it, because otherwise the species would die out. But all of the more esoteric, existential shit about parenting, I don't think anyone's ready for that. But you go into it 70 or 80% ready, and if you're willing to learn along the way and also tell your kids, yeah, you know what? Good point. I fucked that one up. You'll be okay.

[Host]

Have you been changed by it?

[Patton Oswalt]

Absolutely. You're changed by everything you do or don't do. You're changed by everything. So to say that, I don't know why people put such a big emphasis on, oh, your parenting really changes you. Everything changes you. Everything changes you, big or small. And small changes are just as crucial in the long run as big, massive ones. So everything changes you.

[Host]

But how did this change you? Like, how did you become less selfish, for example?

[Patton Oswalt]

It's not that I became less selfish. I mean, in some ways, I became even more selfish because I gotta provide for my kid. I gotta make things easier for her. I want to make sure. And also, I get very selfish of, like, I no, I don't want to go do this shit. I want to hang out with her. Like, I want. You know, I turned Down. I turned on a very specific movie and a very specific TV show because they both would have required me being away for, like, nine months. And it was during that time when she was like, a year and a half old, when she, like, every day she was growing. And I'm like, I can't miss that chunk. I just can't. And I sacrificed.

[Host]

Why are you being purposeful about not naming the shows? Are they shows you wanted to be a part of?

[Patton Oswalt]

The part as a brag.

[Host]

They were shows you wanted to do?

[Patton Oswalt]

Very much wanted to do. But the cost would have been missing this amazing chunk in her. And I'm not. It wasn't like. It was an agonizing decision, by the way. I'm not making myself. Oh, my God. I mean, no, I was just like, I'm not missing this. I'm not missing this. You know, so. And the people who got those roles were so good that it was one of those things too, where it's like, maybe that. That would have sucked if I'd been in it. Maybe it was good that I turned that down. So that's not. There's no regret there. But stuff that I used to think. There are certain things I used to think were very important, especially about, like, status and stuff like that, that I'm like, that doesn't fucking matter. What matters is just showing up every single day. Some days, as a parent, the day sucks. You. You make a shitty breakfast. Let's go do this activity. The activity doesn't quite work out. You come back, the. Oh, shit, the car in like. But. But the kid is like, I got to spend time with you. And you still showed up, and they saw you trying, and that's what matters. Just show up and try. Because some people just absolutely go, I'm not gonna try. I'm not bothering.

[Host]

There's wisdom in that. How did you go from being resolute in your conviction in your 20s that you weren't gonna get married to married, resolute in your conviction in your 30s that you weren't going to have kids to having Alice?

[Patton Oswalt]

I met people and had experiences that changed my mind. You know, everything that you say, oh, my God. So resolutely, but you're gonna meet stuff that changes your mind whether you want it to or not, and just roll with that? Yeah, I used to think that way. Now I don't think that way.

[Host]

I thought it was beautiful that. The way that you honored your late wife. Super unique. To be able. I mean, to catch it. To help catch a serial killer.

[Patton Oswalt]

I Mean, all I did was shepherd that. I mean, I. I handed that book over to an investigator and a journalist. And please help me do this because I was still so, you know, wrecked. And. And they helped, you know, they helped see it through. But she definitely. It was very. It was very funny. We all had a lot of laughs watching at the press conference went. Because she came up with the name the. The Golden State Killer. You know, before that he didn't. And this is going to sound really sick, but another cop, this guy Paul Holes, was like, yeah, he was never given a cool name. And that does hamper investigations. If there isn't a name that lands with the public Zodiac, Night Stalker, then sometimes these cases fade away. So when she came up with Golden State Killer, something very evocative and weird and creepy about that name that she came up with, that did help reopen the case. Now, obviously, yes, other investigators brought that case home. She also did suggest using familial DNA, which they ended up doing, but whatever. But it was very funny to watch them at these press conferences. Someone was like, what about the work of Michelle McNamara? And he was like, Michelle McNamara's work had nothing to do with us catching the Golden State Killer. And we're all like. You literally just used the name. That helped anyway. But. Yeah, but that was like satisfying for us to watch.

[Host]

I mean, all of it. I mean, to the degree to find any funny around any of it is a tribute to your ability to find comedy wherever it is it presents itself. But as a way to honor her work and her passion and enter in a new form of entertainment, really, that has just become really popular during dark times. It must have been gratifying to you somewhere in there to be a part of that, however tangentially to honor her, something she cared about like that.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah, the thing that I. The thing that I wish was more that she really wanted to be more focused on. And I'm seeing it in a lot of these, Doc, but not, not in all of them. Is what she wanted the focus to be on was the investigators and was the victims. Rather than making these serial killers have to be these dark anti heroes, you know, look, serial killers are zilches. The reason that they're killing people is because there's zilch in life. They're not contributing anything. So I'll take something. So the fact that she was able to do something to put the focus on the people that are trying to bring justice to the powerless or the voiceless, in this case, the dead or the people that survived or survived to testify and still put themselves at risk with these. Because a lot of these, if you re. Look at the Ted Bundy case, like, the way that he was treated, like, oh my God, it's so tragic. This bright young guy with a. Could have been a lawyer. He was a fucking idiot. He flunked out of every. But he's a good looking white guy. And everyone's like, oh my God, we got. You know. And when the judge sentenced him, he's like, I feel terrible. Like, you know, you just took a wrong path, buddy. But I would have loved to have had you in my. Like, like, can you imagine being one of the survivors going, what the fuck is going on here? This guy is getting all the, you know. And his final statement was like, this is like a Greek tragedy, you know, like the wrong guy. You're like, what fucking world are we living in?

[Host]

Well, what do you make though, the world we are living in? What do you make of the social commentary that you could form around murder as a podcast form? You know, serial series mysteries and investigations? All of this, this dark material for a dark time.

[Patton Oswalt]

I mean, one of the reasons I think we love mysteries is because at least the ones who have a solution and we can see, oh, there was a form of justice was served here. Because right now in our world, very blatantly and very in our face and very flagrantly, justice is not being served. And evil, opportunistic, just weak villains are being rewarded day after day after day. And we seem. And no one seems to be willing to do anything about it. So, yes, I'll take a fictional world where, yes, even though evil's done, evil gets punished. People need that.

[Host]

How did you go? And this is a complicated question. How did you go from this, the depths of grief, to being able to fall in love again and help heal yourself some at least.

[Patton Oswalt]

I mean, I had a lot of help from other people that had gone through this. The grief group that I went to, and they just said, this is going to sound really weird, but right now all you feel is despair. And that's all you feel like you can feel. And then you're going to get to a point where you go, well, I can function. And thankfully you will be thankful for the fact that you can't feel anything. That will feel like a relief. And you'll go, this is how I'll exist. I can exist at this point. And that's how I was. I'm like, I'm just gonna take care of my daughter and I don't need to feel anything. And then they said, and despite all of that, you will feel joy and hope and love again. You don't know when it's gonna happen, but when it happens, run at it. Like, go run at it. It's there for a reason. And, you know, there are people in my group that are like, I remarried six months after my spouse died, and everyone judged me for it. And there's other people going, I remarried eight years after my spouse died, and everyone judged me for it. So get all that shit out of your head. It doesn't matter. You know, there's gonna. You're not grieving to make them comfortable. You're not recovering to make them feel comfortable. You have to live whatever life is being put in front of you. And I met this genuinely extraordinary woman that I don't think I would have realized is as extraordinary as she is if I hadn't been in love with and spent all those years with Michelle to really show me what extraordinary in a person means, you know? So there was almost like that was the gift from her. That was the one gift, was losing her, having that torn away from me so horribly. But in a way, the tearing away burned the memory of what a truly amazing person looks and feels and acts like. And I was able to recognize it when it came around again.

[Host]

You felt numb for how long? Or the relief of pain free or, like, how long a period was this where you viewed it as an accomplishment to simply not be in crippling pain?

[Patton Oswalt]

I felt numb for, like, half a year. Just nothing. And before that were a couple of months of just, you know, April, April, May, most. Some of June was just. It's not pain. It's. CS Lewis put this so well. Grief feels like terror. I was in terror 24 hours a day. I was terrified of everything. Terror. And then. So that's why I was so happy to hit numbness. And I was like, I'll live here forever. I'll take numbness over terror. And then it just turned into meeting someone who I was not. Again, I wasn't. It was just. It was a weird. We had friends in common. I didn't know who she was, but we have a friend in common. This actress, Martha Plimpton, and my wife, Meredith Salader. They've been friends since they were teenagers, you know, acting. They were both child actors. And so Martha would do these dinners where she would gather various people, different people, just to bring them together and just have a salon. Everyone just talks and meets. And so I was invited to one. And I didn't I was traveling or something, and then Meredith, like, posted or she messaged me and said, you know, that was. You missed the best fucking lasagna, dude. Like, and then I just said, ah, story of my life. Maybe we'll go to Arby's or something, like, just joking. And then this is all on Facebook, just messaging back and forth for, like, three months. Just. We never spoke on the phone, never met in person. It was just somebody at the end of the day that I could talk to in the dark, lying in bed, which is what I would do with Michelle. We'd just lie there and just talk in the dark and go about our day and go over our day and go over the world. And it was just. And then that. Without it becoming romantic or anything, it. It then became romantic just having someone to talk to. And then it turned into. And then we finally. God, we didn't meet face to face till May 20, and we started talking, texting on Facebook at the end of February. And it was just. And there was a time we're like, maybe we just should never meet. Let's just talk like this. And then we was like, oh, no, we should meet. And then that's just how it went.

[Host]

What was the nature of the terror? And how are you a father during all of that? Like, you still had to be a father.

[Patton Oswalt]

Yeah. You hide the terror in front of your kid. Your kid can't see you crying and having panic attacks. So it was very much like a performance of getting up, making sure her breakfast is made, lay out her clothes the night before, get her to school. She immediately wanted to go back to school because she wanted normalcy. I understand that. And my counselor was like, whatever she wants, let her lead the way. If she doesn't want to go back to school for three months, she just shouldn't go back to school. If she wants to go back Monday morning, take her back to school. So it was very much like me. And then I would drop her off at her school, and then I would park on the street outside the school and just sit there until 3:00, just sitting there crying or just freaking out or just listening to music and just being in terror. But, like, well, this is mitigating the terror because I'm within arm's reach of her and if anything happens, I'll just run right in. Like, for like. Like a month. That's what I did. That was my day. I would just park and just sit.

[Host]

Terror is such an interesting one, though. What were you afraid of?

[Patton Oswalt]

That the whole world was Death now that everyone I loved was gonna die, that everyone I loved was gonna die, that she was gonna die, that my parents were gonna die, that my friends were gonna die. It just felt like if this person who was so extraordinary and so like so much brighter and so much more in the world than anyone else I had encountered in the world, if they could be taken away, then nobody was safe. Like everything was just teetering on a precipice and I was powerless to stop anyone from being taken away. So that's what the terror felt like to me.

[Host]

But that's what the biggest love always risks, right? Exactly. That size of loss is like, it's, it's almost baked into the everything of it. Like I, when I think about that, the mortality of it. I don't know how much your atheist atheism serves you here, right, because there's not a, there's not something you can grab that feels comforting.

[Patton Oswalt]

But, but how comforted would I have been if I believed in a loving and beneficent God and then this thing had happened? Would I have been even in even more terror would I have been and even more existential shock and doubt? Maybe the atheism saved me. Maybe. Cause also, you know, Michelle's whole thing was she hated the phrase everything happens for a reason. No, she had studied and researched crime long enough to go things happen for no frigging reason. And it was her phrase. And I said it in my special it's chaos, be kind. And there's days where I fail at that. But try to keep reminding yourself of that and try your best to be kind in the chaos.

[Host]

What kind of goals you got in front of you professionally and personally here with the rest of your career and life as you have this mortality come visit you in a way that sort of must make time more valuable than it felt before that I would imagine.

[Patton Oswalt]

A lot of my drive and like multi pronged ambition went away. It was more about, let's focus on just a few things that really matter to you. So I really want to get into like making films. I'll always do stand up. I'm just not one of these guys that's like, oh, I'll eventually stop. And then if I'm lucky enough to get to keep acting in things, interesting things, I'll act when that comes along. But it won't be anything that I'm gonna like pursue in that crazy way. I just like doing interesting little films. The film industry seems to be going through a very weird spasm right now, which I think is a good spasm. I think the people that are gonna be left making truly good films, the people that actually care about it. The same thing that happened with when the boom ended in the, in the early 90s and it was just the people that actually cared about doing comedy.

[Host]

So, yeah, it's pretty cool that you're going to these small venues, small cities, like you're really getting back to the. You're getting back to the core of what it is that you do for reasons that you do it.

[Patton Oswalt]

I just did the Comedy Attic in Bloomington and oh, it's one of the best four best shows I've done in a long time. Loved it.

[Host]

It's nice seeing you. Thank you for spending this time with us. Thank you for clearing your throat one last time as gymnastics. Gymnastics punctuation. Patton Oswald.

[Patton Oswalt]

Is there any way to like edit that out during this? Cause, my God.

[Host]

I want to put more of my.

[Patton Oswalt]

Interview with doc Holliday.

[Host]

Patton Oswalt.com is where you go for tickets for tour dates. For information. Resplendent as always, sir. Thank you.

[Patton Oswalt]

Resplendent, yes.

[Host]

Radiant. Look at him. Look at him. Glowing.

[Patton Oswalt]

Happy travels, man.

[Host]

Thank you, sir.

[Patton Oswalt]

See you in Miami.

[Host]

Yes, I hope so. Good seeing you. Really appreciate the time and all the work. You are quite the magician.

[Patton Oswalt]

Thank you.

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