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- [00:02]
Phil Hendry
You're listening to DraftKings Network.
- [00:11]
Dan
Right now.
- [00:12]
Phil Hendry
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- [00:57]
Dan
What a magical thrill this is. There are so many things I want to say to you, and these people do not know how I feel about you. And I've never said them to you either. I've never met this man. He is a genuine hero of mine. PhilHenryShow.com is where you go if you want to understand why it is people think he's a genius. But I want to thank you for making me somebody who understood the possibility of radio. Because listening to you in Miami and discovering what you did, how you did it, opened up all the possibilities to me to transition from what had been a writing career to a radio broadcast. So thank you for that because I've never been able to say it to you, and you have been a genuine inspiration.
- [01:41]
Phil Hendry
Oh, I appreciate it, man. You know, John Schroeder's a friend of mine. He's a writer on Bob's Burgers. And he sent me a text, he saw this doc they did on me. He goes, man, I was just like you. I was like this freaky kid, and I didn't want to let people know just how weird I was. And, you know, and we all kind of keep it repressed and maybe the same thing with you, but you finally just give yourself permission to just. Because if you don't, you're going to. What are you going to do with your life? You know, I don't know that I've
- [02:06]
Dan
given myself permission to be as weird as I actually am.
- [02:09]
Phil Hendry
You should try it.
- [02:10]
Dan
Well, it took you forever. You didn't. When did you break through on that discovery because you were bored before then?
- [02:17]
Phil Hendry
I was 38, 39 years old. Yeah. And I read somewhere that that's kind of the age that happens, you know, in your late 30s. And I'd been a disc jockey for 17 years. And before that, I was just this kooky kid, you know, and every weird instinct I had, I shared with my friends, of course, and I. I wrote, but I didn't put it into my broadcasting career. Because I didn't want anybody to think I was. You know, I was raised to believe that you had to make people happy. You had to get people's admiration. So don't do anything that's going to put them off. And so that's kind of what. And then I Finally. I was 38 years old. I was going nowhere with my career, and I was going nowhere in my life. And I said, well, I'm gonna die having never really been having been Phil Hendry. So I made a promise to myself. I don't care where I wind up. I don't care if I'm in the smallest market making the smallest amount of money. I'm gonna do the kind of work that I want to do. And so I sent out this, the goofiest tape I could think to send out, you know, And Diane Rim, the mother of Jennifer, heard the tape at WCAU in Philly. Big station, big talk station. He goes, phyl, this is the funniest stuff I've ever heard. I can't hire you. And I took that to be a good thing. You know, it was like finally somebody was hearing who I was. So I wound up getting this little gig up at Ventura, California, kven. They said to me, just prep your show. Like, you're not gonna get one call. And so I did. And that's what, you know, I had to fill three hours, man. You know.
- [03:47]
Dan
Well, let's. For the uninitiated, okay, Because I'm listening to you in Miami, and at the time, I'm a Miami Herald writer, and what I'm hearing on radio. I don't know anything about radio. Don't come from radio. Haven't trained in radio, haven't listened too much radio. This is my first introduction is. Is hearing the way that WQAM is just crushing everything I'm writing, just destroying me. But there's this person amid the sports lineup who is creating these characters, and all he's looking for is one caller who can be a sucker. So now he can entertain the audience with an assortment of characters. All of whom are you?
- [04:27]
Phil Hendry
All.
- [04:28]
Dan
What offered me was the idea that radio could be a theater of the mind, imagination, and you can go anywhere with it.
- [04:37]
Phil Hendry
Right. I was on wiod, by the way.
- [04:39]
Dan
No, I know, but I was on. I was on.
- [04:41]
Phil Hendry
You were on QAM at the time?
- [04:42]
Dan
I was. No, I wasn't on qam. It was, but I got it wrong because QAM became the sports radio station after wio.
- [04:53]
Phil Hendry
Well, I wasn't really looking to do anything other than you know, when I. When I started, just the instinct as a kid, because this all starts. I grew up in a home that was very volatile, you know, and crazy. And you always kind of hide from that shit. And the first thing you do is, you know, go into your bedroom and you make up things. And I wanted to do this. I wanted to create a reality, and I couldn't hire actors, so I had to do it all myself, basically. I wouldn't even say what. I was trying to create theater. I was trying to create a reality. You know, what if people talk this way? And what if they did this? And how would they sound? So when I made the move to finally be Phil Henry, I began. I brought this tenant tentatively to the. To the air. And I'd heard a guy during the Gulf War doing a serious interview with Saddam Hussein, only he was being Saddam Hussein, putting his voice through a filter, and here is this. And this. I thought, what if I just talked to a character? And that's what I did. I got on the air and I started talking to this guy named Raj Fanin, a character I created, the Gulf War, and he's talking about George Bush, and, you know, I'd like to put his face on toilet paper. What do you think of that, huh? The way he's talking to my president? And we started getting calls, and this guy's like, I'm just driving through your burg. I don't know anything about you people. But you. How dare you? Because my producer was going, there's people calling. Do you want to bring them on? So that was an element I didn't expect. That was an element the callers was not expecting.
- [06:22]
Dan
Okay, so you didn't. So you start. For those that are uninitiated. Uninitiated. Raj Fanin is the first of your characters, and at that time, all you're doing is, I've got to fill three hours. I've got to figure. I've got to figure out how to do this myself. And I don't have actors, right?
- [06:38]
Phil Hendry
So I began doing these different character voices and creating different scenarios. And I can't tell you what the. What the basic sketches were. They had a lot to do with Operation Desert Shield because that's what was happening at the time. So, you know, and. But my first day on the air, I did Rajfanin, so I didn't have to really go too far to know that there were people out there calling and they thought this guy was real. As my producer, a young guy named Greg Lassner, said, people think he's a real guy. Do you want to talk? Okay, wait a minute.
- [07:07]
Dan
You don't know at this point you're. You've created a character, but you don't even know that you've created a character that people are going to think is real.
- [07:15]
Phil Hendry
Not sure. Wasn't sure. I was doing it for the reality, because to me, there's nothing funnier than reality. So I was. I wasn't doing broad, sketchy stuff. I wasn't going, yeah, you know something? I'm going to get my camel and. Right. No, no, no. I was talking the way a guy would talk. Because to me, that's a riot. You know, I just love it. And I guess I should have anticipated it, Dan, but I didn't. You know, I just was having a good time going back and forth with this nut. And then I'd bring another guy in like this. I invented Margaret Gray, who's this character, female character. She was responding to a caller because as soon as the calls came in, I thought, oh, this is some possibilities. Now, this is interesting, because I had a call from this young man who was at the Seabee base up here in Ventura, or the Navy, I think it was at the naval base. Yeah, I'm homesick. Phil, it's great listening to you, man. You're making me, you know, you're making me laugh. I like it a lot. Okay, Have a good day. Yes, sir. And right away, I thought, Margaret is hot for this guy. So I. Hi, Phil, it's Margaret. Oh, how are you doing? I'm good. Do you have the phone? This young man you just talked to is devastating. I don't know how can I get in touch with him? And so that kind of turned kooky. And so we went everywhere with it after that in places that were probably pretty offensive, but I didn't intend to be offensive. I intended to make people laugh.
- [08:30]
Dan
Well, but you can hide everything under the satire of all of it. Your characters could be so awful that, yes, some of the things that you're even saying now, I'm thinking that probably wouldn't go over right now in today's age, but in the 90s, you could get away with some things because you were pushing all of the boundaries through satire.
- [08:49]
Phil Hendry
Yeah, I mean, I was really happy to know that people dug listening to that kind of comedy. I just was happy that I was being Phil Hendry because my buddy Don picks me up at the airport in San Francisco. I was visiting him and his wife, and we've been friends since we were 12. And I said, you know something? For the first time in my life, I said this to somebody, and I said it to him. I said, you know, I'm doing some really good stuff now. He goes, yeah, you ought to hear the show I'm doing now. I never said that to anybody in my life. When I was coming up in radio, if anybody said, my buddy Phil's in radio, I'd always tell him, shut up. Otherwise, they're gonna start listening to me and I suck, you know, so it's.
- [09:23]
Dan
But that's 20 years, 15 years.
- [09:25]
Phil Hendry
What is 17 years from 1973, when I was 20 years of age, all the way up until 1990, I was just a disc jockey doing. And I went and I. I went from Orlando to Los Angeles. I mean, I was doing all the right things. You know, I got to the LA Mar. I did afternoon drive and album rock station, did morning drive and album rock station. But, you know, dude, I was just, like, playing the hits and. And doing stupid things like, hey, it's a payday in la. And don't forget we got those Rolling Stone tickets. So I was. I was doing everything that you were supposed to do, everything that sounded good. And I had. All the DJs that I listened to were in my mind as my role models. But it all just really sucked because I wasn't being Phil Henry. And I knew that there was somewhere, something inside of me that I had to get out. But I got fired multiple times. And I was on a train ride up to Portland to visit my girlfriend Turi, and I looked out the window at the setting sun. And I made a promise to myself. I don't care if I got to go to. I don't care what market I got to go to, man. I'm going to be Phil Henry on the air. I don't give a damn if I never make another dime. I'm going to be that guy. That was the moment. And I went back to LA and I, you know, got the gig at kvn.
- [10:44]
Dan
That moment was midlife crisis was, I've been doing something soulless for 17 years.
- [10:49]
Phil Hendry
Right on, bro. That was it. Yeah. It wasn't so much my age. It was just like, God damn it, man. How long are you going to do this? Look at all these other guys that are. That are funny. And, you know, you're just as funny. Why are you not. Why are you not finding the vehicle? Why are you not finding the medium?
- [11:02]
Dan
You know, but your dreams were to just be a dj. No. Like, when you first start thinking about the magic of being on rad. The top of that food chain is being a dj, correct?
- [11:14]
Phil Hendry
Well, at the time when I was coming up, yeah, but I wanted to be real Don Steele. I wanted to be Robert W. Moore. I grew up in la. We had KHJ boss jocks. These guys were funny. They were quick, they were talking up the records, they were hitting the post. I wanted to be a writer, Dan. I wanted to be Jack Kerouac, really. So I was hitchhiking all over California and writing in my journal. But I thought, well, I can make. I could support myself being a disc jockey and I could be funny. And I got my first gig in radio and I remember saying to somebody, when do I start being. I literally asked this cat, well, when do I start being funny? The guy goes, whatever you decide to Phil, I don't know how to tell you that, you know, can you imagine? And so I just, I would venture some things, but there's nothing more awkward than someone trying to be funny. There's nothing more awkward and nothing more flat than somebody, you know. And that's what my first few years in radio were like. Until I just pulled back and said, well, forget I'm just gonna be a straight A disc jockey, technically. Just, it'll be well oiled, perfect technical disc jockey stuff. Which I was just depressed throughout the whole thing, you know, and 17 years, 17 years of depression. Well, I had good times. I was a young man and I was.
- [12:21]
Dan
Oh, but what you're saying though, is fascinating in retrospect because the fear of being cringy made you retreat into somebody you didn't want to be. And you got stuck in that prison for 17 years.
- [12:33]
Phil Hendry
That's right. You know, you especially raised the way I was. Ooh, don't do that. What will people think? That was how I was raised. And that had a big effect on me, man. You know, I never really knew that I was a pretty good looking young man until I looked at pictures of myself within the last few years. I saw that's Phil Henry in his 20s. I always thought I was very unattractive, you know, because I was always mocked for my looks within my family. So what I, you know, what I look back now on, when I see my career in those days, I realize I would have gotten fired and I would have gotten fired a lot. But you would have been beginning the ball rolling, Phil, in this, in the art that you wanted to practice. You know, the art form of being a improvisational performer on radio, which would eventually would evolve into being in front of the Camera, which is probably what I should have done all along, you know, But I didn't do it. And so when I was pushing 40, 38 years of age, I said, well, you're gonna do it now, man. You're gonna do it and you're gonna like it.
- [13:39]
Dan
You know, tell me about the existential crisis that is you getting to that point. Cause you clearly remember the details of how it is that you said to yourself, I am no longer going to care about anything other than being true to betting on myself.
- [13:53]
Phil Hendry
Yeah, you know, Dan, I got canned at KLSX, classic rock station in 87. I got another. Then I got a talk show at kfi. And so great. This is talk radio. I don't have to play records. But I went about it very traditionally. I got a guest and I had opinions and I did the whole kind of fist pounding thing. And that really sucked. And I got canned from that job. So now there I was, you know, 17 years in, and as I was taking this train ride, I was going up to see this girl that I was dating at the time. And her name's Tory Rider. She's in this, the doc they did about me. Tori was on the air just opening up and not giving a shit what she was saying. She was being a real raconteur, improvisational, funny. That's it right there. And I knew her, so I could talk to her about it, you know, what do you do? I don't know. I'm just, you know, I just do it. I just give yourself permission, you know. And I think that was it, my relationship with her that I said, well, God damn it, you know, if she can do it. And I'm not trying to talk her down. I'm just saying that, you know, it was somebody in my life right there, tangible, doing it, said I gotta be able to do this. So I was on my way to visit her when I made that promise to myself. You know, I guess it was just that, I hate to say this. If a woman can do it, why the hell can't I?
- [15:16]
Dan
Really?
- [15:17]
Phil Hendry
No, I didn't say that. You know, but Tori was one of these. She said, you know, the problems we've had as women in broadcasting, it's all your fault, you know, and it is. Yeah, absolutely, bro.
- [15:27]
Dan
And they're right.
- [15:27]
Phil Hendry
Absolutely, brother. So I, I. But her being in my life and listening to her every morning and hearing for the first time, you know, that connection I had every day, talking to her and listening to her and seeing the success she was having and really thinking she was great too. I thought she was funny as hell. Tori was fantastic. Boar's Head brings to the deli the taste of deep fried turkey. One bite and flavor takes over. Perfectly seasoned and deliciously golden fried. A backyard tradition available at the deli. Presenting the Friar's Turkey breast only from Boar's Head. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli or deli counter. Boar's Head committed to craft since 1905. This summer, whatever you're watching baseball, golf, soccer, racing, DraftKingsports has you covered. The DraftKingsports app is now available in all 50 states. That means yours two bringing the action straight to your fingertips wherever you are. One app every market, so you're always in on the excitement at the speed of sports. New DraftKings customers sign up with Code beach. That's B, E, A, c, h. Spend five bucks and get 150 in rewards within 14 days. That's code Beach. Includes all markets in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Bet with DK Sports Book Gambling Problem Call 1-800- Gambler-1-800, my reset Connecticut called 888-789-7777. Visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in K Taxtu may apply in Illinois 21 and over void in Canada event contract trading with DraftKings predictions involves risk of loss Availability varies Predictions offer void in New York Bet to get bonus bets that expire in seven days. Trade to get predictions dollars that expire in one year $50 in rewards issued every seven days via click to claim for 14 days. One non withdrawable reward redeemable terms at DKNG Co offer limited time offer well, you should.
- [17:17]
Dan
You should know though that you gave me permission. Like the way that you were doing. You didn't give yourself permission, but what it is you ended up choosing end up giving me permission in, in the small sphere where I was working, I don't have any training in this. I don't. I didn't grow up loving radio. So I'm just. I'm. You're literally the space where I'm saying, oh, this can be a creative playground. This doesn't have to be as stiff as what it is that I'm hearing in sports radio where it is all pound the table, give an opinion.
- [17:47]
Phil Hendry
Well, I'm glad to hear that, man. I really am. I'm. There's nothing, there's no point in living, man, unless you're actually imparting something to somebody. You know, I want to make people laugh I don't need to be. Nobody has to give me any glory and say, weren't you. You were just fantastic, Phil. I'm happy enough being happy, doing my work. And to hear that I had. It's like this, man. People would say to me, my wife was. I had a guy say this to me, and I laughed, and I should. And he said, my wife was in a coma, Phil, from an automobile accident. The first time she laughed in that coma was listening to your show, and I was like. But I thought about that, and I didn't know how to respond to that because I've had people say to me, I was in the depths of depression, man, until I heard you. And I really didn't know how to respond to that, other than to say, I'm so happy that you're happy now, man. But, by God, if you can have that kind of influence on anybody, that's good, man. You're sending something out of the world that's good.
- [18:41]
Dan
Well, it's at least in part because of the intimacy of the medium. You love radio. You've mentioned the doc here a couple of times. So I should tell people it's good. It's on prime, and he gets knighted by the greats of comedy who understand.
- [18:53]
Phil Hendry
I was trying to squeeze it in. Thank you. No, I'm just joking.
- [18:56]
Dan
But, Judd Apatow, like, there have been some people who have such an appreciation for what it is that you were doing in radio in terms of moving, pioneering. Really, who's somebody that you've been stunned to meet because you can't believe that they had an appreciation for what it is.
- [19:13]
Phil Hendry
Henry Rollins, for starters. Henry was like a pioneer in punk rock. That's a cat that just went out. You talk about a guy that just hit the stage and said, okay, you know, come. What made. This is what I'm gonna do. And to hear Henry say that he liked and he understood what I did. Henry's also a fan of my current stuff, which doesn't have phone calls. That's just me riffing in character and doing sketches. So that blew my mind. Judd. I worked for the guy a couple times, and the guy's a renowned comedy director. To get that kind of. But all of those cats in the movie. And this is gonna sound kooky, but John Carpenter is a great director, and he came to watch the show, and he was with his wife. And I said, well, it's so great to meet. I was talking, well, this was his birthday present. He wanted to come and watch. I said, you asked if you could. Yeah, I said, could John come? I said, hell, yeah. You know, that. That blew me away. You know, I don't know what that. Because I. Believe me, Dan, I don't get on the phone and go, let's make this work for us. Get John Carpenter's name. We'll have a Rolodex of names. We could really start to. I don't know what to do other than to say, you know, if you're a fellow artist and you're. You're creating and somebody appreciates that you're on the right road and, you know, and you can keep on doing whatever it is you're. You know, my feeling is, man, just keep it. Keep it funny, bro. You know, And I laugh at some weird shit, but, you know, if I can entertain myself, then I figure I'm doing something right, you know?
- [20:45]
Dan
Can you explain, though, the intimacy of the medium? Because the thing about whoever it is that's meeting you is they're not seeing you. And so all they're seeing is your talent. All they're seeing is your imagination. All they're seeing is your mind and the best parts of who you wanted to be seen when you felt soulless. For 17 years, doing radio, the reason that I've chosen to do what I do now in radio is because it's the most fulfilling and intimate there. I don't have anything else like television and even writing. Neither of these things, they had their fulfillment, but it wasn't connection to strangers who feel like they know you because you're developing a more intimate relationship because they can't see you.
- [21:28]
Phil Hendry
Yeah. I gotta tell you, when I'm doing my work, podcast or broadcasting, the first thing I'm thinking of is this working for me, you know, and if I'm having a good time, I know I'm touching somebody out there, you know? In fact, I've taken to leaving laughs in if I'm laughing. If I bust. Bust up laughing, I just leave it on the tape and just. That's what happens, you know, we're all laughing because I know now that there's people, and I've heard it from more than one person who, you know, they're struggling out there, man. And comedy, laughter is a curative, you know, it really is. So I think what I can do is, even cats that I don't agree with politically, we're so freaking weird now in this country, but even people that may be miles away from me in terms of the political thing, I can make that guy laugh or that woman laugh. We Have a commonality there. And, man, we can start building that out a little bit. Okay. It sounds kind of goofy, philosophically Zen Buddhist thing. Although Zlatin. Zen Buddhism I like, but it is. It is how I see it, you know, that there's a. There's somebody out there. I'm making him laugh. And that dude may be, like, living on the other side of the world for me in terms of politics or philosophy, but I just connected to them because I figure anytime I think something's funny, there's got to be one or two or three or more people out there that think the same thing, you know?
- [22:54]
Dan
I mean, we're all searching for connection, right?
- [22:57]
Phil Hendry
I mean, are you talking drugs? Because. Oh, yeah. No, yeah, Dan, sure. We do want connection, especially women right now, for me, because it's just. No, I'm a happy guy. My girlfriend's in Florida right now, so she's. Yeah, no, we are. Aren't we? Searching for connection? I feel a warmth between us.
- [23:18]
Dan
I. I think we're always. I think it's a basic human need to search for connecting. And when you talk about how crazy it's gotten in the world, a very simple place is sharing a laugh.
- [23:32]
Phil Hendry
Right on. Yeah, I agree. And seriously, I'm not happy, man, unless I'm talking to somebody, to be honest with you. I like my time watching tv, but I'm always reaching for the phone because I want to reach out and see how's everybody doing, what's going on.
- [23:47]
Dan
So you've mentioned a couple of times the dysfunction that you grow up in and wherever it is that you were wearing costumes to escape or creating characters to escape. Some of what it is that we're doing here is meant to be biographical. So how deeply are you willing to get into your past on the places where you find the funny.
- [24:04]
Phil Hendry
I'm cool. I'll go anywhere. I had the Hotspur, my seventh grade nun, the teacher. I would sit there and try to make out her ass. I was 12. She was a very pretty nun, so I was trying to see if she had a body.
- [24:21]
Dan
Yeah, that's just child testosterone mornings. And that's not really where I wanted to go. To your child,
- [24:31]
Phil Hendry
go where you want to go, Manny.
- [24:32]
Dan
Well, let's start with the way that your father was making money and burning money.
- [24:37]
Phil Hendry
Yeah.
- [24:38]
Dan
What was happening in the house?
- [24:40]
Phil Hendry
My dad was a probably the one thing, you know, when I say this with love, the one thing in life that I would look at him and say, I'm proud of my father. He's a World War II veteran of the Canadian forces, they were in Italy. They came home, moved the family to California. And I was born here two years later. My sister three years later. And for a period of time there, we had a good, stable home in Arcadia, where I grew up. I don't know what happened, or maybe it didn't happen. It was always there. But my father was a successful salesman. And we bought a nice house, and we had a beautiful home, and we built a swimming pool. And I was going to a Catholic school. Holy Angels. And then all of a sudden, I could hear the fighting and the anger and the rancor. And my dad was out, probably by that point, cheating on my mom with two or three different women. The fighting, the kind of thing you don't want a kid to hear. I heard it all, you know. I heard my father leave. I heard my mother begging him not to. All the cringy shit, you know. And when he left and he abandoned the family, it took me a long time to say, that's what he did. He abandoned us. Because my father came back from Europe. He was a salesman. I was glad to see him. I was happy. I was crying. And everybody told me, you realize what your father did to you? No. My mother was the one. She couldn't get along with her. And that's what happens to us. That's what we do to kids, you know, we make them take these stupid sides. But I didn't trust family, money, or even love after that. I just went out into the world. I was a cynical, angry kid through high school. I stopped paying attention to my schoolwork. And I guess that's kind of a cliche, but, yeah, I didn't give a shit about school, man. All I wanted to do was find something somewhere that was that. I wanted to be a part of a culture. And the first thing I found was the writings of Jack Kerouac and the Beat poets of the 50s. This was late 60s. The hippie culture was starting. But really, the guys, that's where I want to be. Because I don't have a family anymore. And by the time I was in high school, I was stealing food because my father was not sending money to the house. I don't want. My mom was doing with whatever money she had. But I told myself I was a rapscallion. I was kind of like Roger the Dodger. I was just being, you know, I was going to steal some food. Isn't this funny? I was hungry, and I was stealing almost every day from the supermarket up the street. My kid's Sister told me she saw bags of groceries that she would steal on a step. This is all shit we never ever let ourselves believe or see, you know? When I finally realized that, I went through a heavy ass period of anger toward my parents. My father died when I was 35, and I. I hadn't yet come to those realizations, but I did know that I'd been angry with him. And as he died, I told him I loved him and I forgave him, but I kind of went there with him. I said, you really were a shit father, man. Well, you know, you ought to take me on now at this point in my life. Well, kind of, yeah. That's what I'm doing, dad. And I realized that my mother was a victim of that, you know, And I had the longest time. I had a hard time with my mom, man. I didn't get along with her. But now I feel so bad for Marjorie, you know, I love her and I know what she. She had a serious bout with depression. Now, I know that, you know, so I'm glad I came to these realizations about myself and my life. And everybody's fighting their wars, too. I don't think I'm unique.
- [28:13]
Dan
How did you come by the realizations, though? Like, you're talking. I don't know what you learned from the specifics of telling your dad how you felt and forgiving him before he passed.
- [28:28]
Phil Hendry
Well, I don't know that I forgave him, Dan, before he passed. I did know that I loved him. And I knew that he was an adopted kid. He had his life, but I was pissed at him. But I told him I loved him before he passed. And I watched him die. And my mother, I still didn't understand. I didn't understand him either, but I knew that I loved her. It wasn't until. God, dude, I don't know what gets us to that place. It was probably about 10 years ago when I realized that I was stealing food because I was hungry, not because I was trying to be Oliver Twist's best friend. And that was sad, man. When you realized that we went from being my father was very successful to that. And I was angry with my dad about that. I forgave my mother. Right then and there. I realized that my mom had been through hell, but I knew that this hatred that I was harboring. And I wasn't even hatred, but this anger at my father I was harboring wasn't doing me any goddamn good. I can't go through my whole life hating people, you know? So I recognize he was flawed person. And God damn it, I love you anyway, dad, you know, I'm not quite sure what you did that was good, I think. But he gave me a little bit of my sense of humor. My brother, too. But you must have been challenged, and you must have been in a lot of pain yourself, man. And I know he was adopted. He didn't find out who his real mother was until he got out of the army. And I think that's why they left Canada. When he found out that his real mother was an American, I think that's when he packed up my mom and my older brother and sister and came to the United States, came to California.
- [30:06]
Dan
The characters were an escape in your childhood.
- [30:08]
Phil Hendry
Yeah, yeah. All of that stuff. I would watch tv, and then I'd go back in the bedroom. I'd pretend like I'm the host of the Ed Sullivan show, you know? And I don't know that I gave them names, but I went into character. The first character voice I did was James Mason in the movie 55 Days at Peking. So I could watch this movie. And James Mason was Chinese in this film, you know. And I just was starting to do this James Mason voice, you know, it's the first character voice I did. And then the next one you do is kind of hillbilly, because that's an easy one. And New York's very easy. So you go for all these easy dialects, and you start to. You rope your sister in. I roped my little sister Marianne in, and she was the best audience in the world. I would do these sketches where I'd sit her down. I'd say, okay, I'm gonna go into that office and I'm gonna tell that guy what I think. And I'd go into my bedroom, close the door, and then come out dragging my leg behind me. And she'd howl with laughter. Cause I just got my ass kicked by the guy behind the door. So that was Marianne. And we would go out with a little. A real to reel tape recorder that I had, and I would interview her. I don't know what I was saying to her, but I would say, I actually played this for my father. And I said, please, Marianne, this is a family show. My dad roared at that line. I don't even know what the hell I said to her.
- [31:27]
Dan
You love the voice actor work, right?
- [31:29]
Phil Hendry
Yeah, man. I loved the voice actor work. I liked to. Because you were anybody you wanted to be, you know, and you didn't need a stage necessarily, or lots of makeup or hire other people, you know.
- [31:39]
Dan
Do you have a favorite? I mean, among the voice work that you've done? I imagine Rick and Morty is the place that. Is there anything. Is there anything that gives you that sort of satisfaction of the other profession,
- [31:50]
Phil Hendry
of the other gigs?
- [31:51]
Dan
Yeah, just of the voice work that you've gotten to do?
- [31:55]
Phil Hendry
Well, you know, my first job was King of the Hill, and they let me do three, four voices. That was a lot of fun. Futurama let me do the old. I guess F is for family. I got to stretch a little bit there. Rick and Morty. I just do the one character, Principal Vagina. But, you know, it's more me than any of the other characters I do. I would say the most fun I've had stretching is doing my podcast and my radio show, you know, because you are setting the boundaries there when you're working other people together. That's really funny, Phil, but we want to go here, not there. Okay. But fantastic. Okay. So that's how that is, you know, But I'd say all of the gigs that I've had in voiceover have been blessings, man. You know, and especially Rick and Morty. I was in the ground floor of that show, man, the first year it was on the air. Yeah. You know, the last voice session I did with Rick and Morty, I walked out of there with no throat because I was. They wanted me to scream as if I was falling off of a building. That was fun. Anything you can improv was great working for Judd Apatow. And this is 40. That entire scene I did was total improv. I like doing that, you know, and I understand. I respect writers and what they write, but anytime a director says to you, just go ahead and do what you want to do. We got to get the hell out of here, Phil, you know, so you
- [33:20]
Dan
like doing your stuff in your voice, with your control, with your sense of humor, without anyone editing, and you know what you want, you know how to make it, and it's yours.
- [33:33]
Phil Hendry
I think that's it. That's right. Yeah. In fact, even on camera, I wish the director would just piss off and let me just do my two.
- [33:42]
Dan
Well, you said a couple of things. You said you could have or should have been a writer, and you also, it felt like, could have or should have gone in front of camera instead of hidden.
- [33:53]
Phil Hendry
Yeah. Because that's where I'm winding up now. Look at our business. Look at radio. You know, radio is kind of going away, although the podcast universe has its own possibilities. But, yeah, I think probably maybe the way I got into it was better because it was fully. I was gainfully employed from the gate being an actor, which my brother Darrell went into, even back in the. When there was lots of work, it wasn't necessarily steady, and I had to get it the hell out of California. I had to go and see the world. You know, I had to get away from where my family was. So I kind of wish that I would have been on stage a little bit and done visual acting because it would have prepared me a little bit more for this point in my life. But I don't know, man. I don't know that I had a choice.
- [34:38]
Dan
Well, you were ahead of the curve in podcasting. Like, you got out of radio earlier than most, right? What was behind that choice?
- [34:47]
Phil Hendry
Well, I mean, one thing about my radio show, everybody loved the show, but it was always a really hard show to affiliate. It was always a really hard show to sell. It was always a struggle. And by that point, I was getting offered these little pilots and acting jobs above and beyond the radio gig. So I thought, I can make this my future, but I gotta do something on the air. And by this time, guys that I knew like, well, there were cats that I knew in the comedy business that were already starting a podcast. I'll do that. You know, I can set a studio up in my house. So that way it was just kind of like saying, I don't want to stop being creative, and this is going to be. Allow me to be creative and make money and do whatever the hell I want to do, you know, and the only restriction is somebody saying, you suck. I don't want to buy your podcast. As opposed to someone saying, don't do that, Phil, because our advertisers this or that.
- [35:43]
Dan
I would imagine, though, when you say it was tough to get you affiliated, that's frustrating for me. Just hearing it, you knew how good it was, you knew it was smart. And are you angry at the industry for not being able to support it?
- [35:56]
Phil Hendry
Of course. I think a lot of guys in radio are angry at the industry for a lot of reasons, but I believe management, and I'm talking industry wide now. As much as I love a lot of the cats that I worked for, okay, And I'm not blaming all of them individually, but I am saying that management, ownership, the people that ran our business ran it right into the ground. They didn't show any courage. They didn't show any real individual creative instinct. They didn't know how to sell, especially my show. They couldn't sell it. They couldn't affiliate. Well, what the hell's the problem? Had I run iheart or whatever it was at the time, Clear Channel, I would have said, okay, obviously we have a new format here. There's news talk, but there's also personality talk. What's that? Grease, man, me, Howard, Bubba, Dan, you know, whoever. That's personality. That's a whole other rail that we have to promote. And had we done that, it probably would have. Probably would have been the birth of podcasting. Much sooner, the more creative podcasting, but it would have been a parallel rail that we could have used as an advertising.
- [36:58]
Dan
So you didn't feel supported, right? You always felt like you were fighting for your life?
- [37:01]
Phil Hendry
Absolutely, always. And I had people from the sales department tell me that. They would say to me, phil, you're lightning in a bottle. And they're just not pushing you, man. And I'm fortunate. Now I'm with a great salesperson, Julie Talbot at iHeart Podcasts. And I had a great agent in David, Kat. And these are people that work hard for you. But back then, low hanging fruit, man, that was the name of the game.
- [37:25]
Dan
Oh, but this industry is super frustrating in terms of whoever's running it. You talk about creative limitations. You're meeting very few people that you're connecting with creatively in your entire career in, in management, in podcasting or. No, I'm talking about your entire life in radio, wherever it is. You didn't feel supported because the executives needed to both see your genius and know how to sell it because it was going to be the future like you have to. That can't be a niche thing. That's obvious that if I put that in front of discerning people, it will catch because it's funny and it's got range like it's like nothing else on radio. And it had audience. You can't tell me it didn't have audience. They just didn't know how to measure it.
- [38:08]
Phil Hendry
Well, yeah, and you're talking to David. He was right. We had good quarter hours. We had long TSL time spent listening. We had big fat tsl. The cum people tuning in and tuning out wasn't there. But I don't necessarily blame our show. I blame the radio station for that. I mean, you're relying on one show to pull in KUM listenership, which is basically people tuning in and tuning out. Tuning in and tuning out. Quarter hours. My job. TSL is my job. But Hume, the station's got to go out and get that audience. You know, I always felt like you
- [38:36]
Dan
were surrounded by a Whole bunch of people who weren't as creative as you. Hard stop.
- [38:41]
Phil Hendry
Well, I think you're right, but I love the support I got, like in Miami, from Bob Green. We had a great general manager. I love the support that I got from our promotion guys. I'm not blaming them for anything. I'm saying we had to kick the game up to a much higher level. We couldn't give up. And we were giving up all across the board in radio in those days, just. Everybody was just throwing in the towel. Why? Why? You know, and you look at some of these guys that ran these companies from ABC Cap Cities, and I know the names. I won't mention them, actually. I don't know the names now. I forgot them. I drove them out of my mind. They were the most gutless people, worthless people, and decided, sure, let's flush an entire industry down the can. Because as I said, we were just talking this past weekend. In film, you can give an award to a movie that doesn't make money. Still give it an Academy Award. Why? Because you appreciate the goddamn art in television. Hill Street Blues got five Emmys, man, and they were about ready to bounce it off the air. It wasn't getting a viewership. Only in radio is the making of money the only goddamn thing they care about. And the art, the content. So when you don't concentrate on content, you're only concentrating on making money, which means selling commercials. You're basically flushing the medium down the toilet. You got no. There's nothing to put the commercials in. So you're right when you say I didn't feel supported. You're right about that.
- [40:02]
Dan
Well, that's why it feels like the lowest rung of the show business ladder, too, because of everything that you just mentioned and because of how hard it is to climb from there if you're going to be a rose growing in a sewer like that. It's just. It isn't. But it also gave you the opportunity. I would have gratitude. It gave you the opportunity to do whatever the hell you wanted because there was nobody there doing anything interesting.
- [40:25]
Phil Hendry
Right.
- [40:26]
Dan
And most of the people in charge don't actually know how to get people listening. So they're in charge, but they don't know how to help you.
- [40:34]
Phil Hendry
No. Then. And you sure as hell, even if you suggest something, they're not going to take your suggestion. I mean, because everybody, like I said, was on their way out the door. It was like trying to get people to stay at the party and they already have their gifts and they go
- [40:49]
Dan
to the car oh, but the thing that you had when you say tsl, time spent listening. And when I talk about the intimacy of the media, the fact that people start with you here. If anybody who's listened to what it is that you do. And I don't know whether, you know, we're going to go on a zip line, and I don't know if it's going to be 20 minutes from now or 40 minutes from now, but something dangerous is going to happen here, like something. And so they just stay with you and there's a stickiness with it until you get to the end of wherever it is you're unspooling. Imagination immediately is like. That's why. Why I tell you you're an inspiration to me is because I could hear that joyride as you were on it. And I was on the outside at the beginning like everyone else who listens to you, who didn't quite understand it. Is this real? Is it not real? What is this? And then as you get more and more information, you become addicted to the. The time spent listening. You can't turn away because we want to see how far you'll take it, how far your. Your imagination goes.
- [41:50]
Phil Hendry
Yeah, because, you know, Dan, the best thing that I hear, that I heard in those days was I was in the car. I didn't get out of the car. I didn't go to the house because I wanted to me, to you, to anybody. That's TSL right there. That guy can't get out of his car because he wants to listen to the rest of the bit. That's man valuable to an advertiser. That's gold, you know, and that's what we had. And they could not, for the life of them, extend the life of it. But yeah, just take. Even when you don't get calls and there were times you didn't get any phone calls. I was sitting in the studio one day doing this character named Ted Bell, and there was a crew from Channel 5 doing B roll because they were gonna do a thing. And these guys were laughing as they're. And Phil, I went to. I took her to the. Whatever they had, the Ellen continent in Santa Barbara. And my wife and I. Why did you take her up there? Well, we wanted to have a romantic evening, but I didn't know. And now it's getting to the point. I don't see any fucking cold because it's so corny. What are you going to call about? This guy's having a bad time with his wife. And I feel like I went There she slipped her finger into my ass. And I just went outside and I wept. Why? I just felt violated. And so it was. I got guys from the channel fights, just this kind of stuff. And, you know, people laughed.
- [43:09]
Dan
I don't think you're allowed to put things in orifices on radio. I know. I think that's banned by the fcc. I think that can get you in a lot of trouble with the present administration.
- [43:19]
Phil Hendry
Well, absolutely. And at the time, I don't know that I knew that, though. But it was that zipline you're talking about. But I didn't do it to shock. I did it to make people laugh. I said, we gotta get some laughs going. And that was the most obvious place to go for the laugh. Isn't it interesting that. That the things we laugh the hardest at are the things that are illegal, you know, or just like. Maybe it's like drugs. I don't know.
- [43:42]
Dan
What do you love the most about radio?
- [43:47]
Phil Hendry
Well, you are a movie. You're creating a movie with the sound effects, with the lighting, with the cameras, with the actors. You're creating the movie yourself. The first time I fell in love with radio, though, I was traveling cross country with my family to Canada. I was five years old. We were going to visit my grandparents. My dad was awake and I was awake. The car radio was on. Everybody was asleep. And I'm listening to this guy, you know, and it's 65 degrees here in Denver. We're going to be going out to. Bill, you're out. And here's this guy taking me on this journey. You know, I'm already in the car, but this guy's telling me all about Denver. And they're going to go here and they're going to go there. And I listened to everything this man was saying to me. Here's a song now called this and that and the song. And then he come back. And I realized that this man was. This is a whole other world. I'm in the car, but this guy's got another world that he's connecting me to, you know? So I wanted to be that guy. I wanted to be in control. I wanted. I wanted to create that thing, whatever he was doing. I rode my bike to krla, which was our local station here in la, and the Huntington Hotel in Pasadena to watch these. It was the first time I ever saw a radio studio. And Casey Kasem was on the air, and he came out. How you doing, kids? I was about. This is how short I was. Casey kasem was like, six feet tall to me. Well, how great, Mr. Caseman? This and that. Well, it's great. It's fantastic. And meanwhile, the out of Karol A in those days, was serving Southern California from Pasadena krl. That was the out. He knew he should have been in the studio queuing a record up. As soon as he heard Serving Southern California, he dashes in, grabs a 45, and it's, you know, Casey Kasem with you. And he's talking, he's cueing a 45, and he's telling you all about the record. And bam. That was the greatest thing I ever saw in my life. And he was. Was pissed. He turned around and slammed that door shut. But I didn't see the anger. I saw this brilliant improvisational performance from this. Already a big star, even. He was just local in LA in those days. But I wanted to do that, man. I wanted to have all those knobs and buttons and do what he just did, you know.
- [45:44]
Dan
So what a great memory to have of specifically Casey Kasem. And I was hoping he was, like, smoking a cigarette, cursing, because his. His. His on air character sounded so decent.
- [45:55]
Phil Hendry
He was. Yeah. I told him he worked at Westwood One for a while. I told him the story, said, oh, you're one of the Green Porch people, huh? Yeah, yeah. You know. But I said, you were an inspiration, man. Just that day you lost your temper. Well, God damn, I don't know, you know? Yep.
- [46:09]
Dan
And that's how you. That's where. And how you grew to love it, the fact that you can have control. I wonder. I don't know how much pop psychology you've done with the absence of control in your own childhood and the idea that your creative births are. You have to control all of it because then it can be yours. It seems like some of the stuff happening in your childhood was deeply unsafe.
- [46:29]
Phil Hendry
I think you're right. I never really. I do know that it was a world I could control. And also my friends, you know, I had good friends who thought I was a riot. Just a bunch of guys. And I would say stupid. So we all kind of. We all kind of bonded in terms of humor. My brother was a riot, so he would. So it would definitely. When you say controlling a world, you're right. I never saw it that way. But I did, in my own way, realize, I'm going to pull this in. I'm going to pull this in. I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. And I don't want to go out and hire a bunch of actors, you know, I'll just do it all myself, you know.
- [47:00]
Dan
But it sounded like. See, the thing that you were creating, one of the things that you were creating is that your imagination come to life. Sounded like a riotous group of people. It sounded like a bit of a. It sounded like a creative party. Like these are the things that were calling me. You have to understand, I have no experience with radio. I don't have any of your past when you're introducing this to me. Because I don't have any of your past. Past of dreaming of something I imagined and ad libbing and 5 years old. None of that. I'm going to college for writing. I'm not paying attention to anything that's happening on the radio. I'm not dreaming about imaginary things. And then I hear your show, and your show wasn't even. I don't think one of. No, it wasn't the feature. One of the featured shows. I think it was on. It. Was it on at night?
- [47:46]
Phil Hendry
When I first got to Miami, I was on at night. Yeah.
- [47:48]
Dan
Yeah, it's. So it's on at night and. And I'm realizing that. That all you're doing is putting out a fishing line. It's your creativity. Your creativity. Putting out a fishing line so you can get one person to bite on the hook. So the rest of us can laugh at the fact that that one person doesn't know that they're talking to only you. That person thinks sometimes, what's the most you've ever had in the room? That that person thinks sometimes that there are how many people in the room? What's the most you've ever had in the room?
- [48:13]
Phil Hendry
You mean characters? Probably three or four characters doing it. Once you.
- [48:17]
Dan
So. So all of us are listening and we're watching you. Basically what we're watching you do is, is paint on a canvas that we can't see.
- [48:26]
Phil Hendry
Yeah. Yeah.
- [48:27]
Dan
And so we're watching an artist work.
- [48:29]
Phil Hendry
Well, Neil, you remember Neil Rogers? Neil used to say this guy. He used to. Neil didn't like anybody, but he. God bless him, he supported me and said, this guy puts a painting out. He said exactly what he said. Phil's got a bare canvas every day he's got to paint a picture on. And what are you people doing? You know how he used to scream at the audience? I never saw it that way other than the fact that this was me. This is really funny. Please let us get some calls on this. You know, that was. That was kind of how I. And you. You got to learn the Market. You learned that Miami is a sports market, so I could do a lot of sports stuff.
- [48:59]
Dan
Oh, but we're a terrible market for you. Not just the lack of education, but the number of different ethnicities that you have there and languages make it very hard to connect to. Ever get the joke today?
- [49:10]
Phil Hendry
Today, I think you're right. I think back then, don't you think it was a little bit more homogenized?
- [49:15]
Dan
I think 80s and 90s.
- [49:16]
Phil Hendry
Yeah. Well, yeah, early 90s when I was in Miami in 94, I could see
- [49:22]
Dan
where it is that your show would struggle in Miami just because of how weird the Miami audience is and because you'd need them to get the joke. And you need an executive team to have the patience to let you tell the joke until everybody got it, which took. I mean, it took me a long time. I'm listening to your show and I don't understand what I'm listening to. I know it's weird, but I don't. I don't even know how you indoctrinate people to this. It takes a minute. Like you, why you're not. You're never explaining the joke.
- [49:52]
Phil Hendry
No, until I got to la and Craig Kitchen is a great guy. He's one of the good management guys. Craig, Bob Green. You know, I can name some cats that were in my corner. But Craig said, we realized that something, something. We realized that the cum or so we. Something goes up, up when people know what's happening. I said to him, what happened? What would happen if I told people that I'm doing the voices? Why don't you try it? So we did that. I started saying, I'm Phil Henry, by the way. That was me doing that character voice. And then I'd move on very quickly. I don't know if it had any effect today. I don't think I would have done it. I think I would have just let the fantasy be the fantasy, just a bunch of weird asses and let people figure it out on their own, you know, but, you know, everybody's in such a goddamn hurry. And in those days, especially now, I guess the same thing. Let's hurry get those numbers. Let's hurry and get those ratings. Let's hurry and be successful and rich and famous. And, you know, certain things take a certain amount of time. And I don't think that we were going slow. The guys in charge needed it to be fast because they were scared of it. Whatever Henry's doing, we better hurry up and see some results because, God damn it, I don't want to hear that shit. It's too, too freaking weird. I think a Clear channel said that. I think Clear channel said, you know what? There's a level of money that I should have been making that I didn't quite hit. And they didn't let the show develop. You know, they just said, well, okay, let's get out of here. Let's. The cat's weird, you know, he's, I mean, I know I did a lot of stuff that baited management. Oh, I did one thing. You know, we went back, this is after the Janet Jackson thing, and Craig came back from dc, they called all these cats to dc The Janet Jackson breast. I said, what's that got to do with us? That was tv. Well, they want us to tone it down. So Phil, would you beep out? And we had a jingle. It said, ted's of Beverly Hills, we want to put our meat in your mouth. Right? He says, you got to beep that out, Phil. I said, okay, so instead of beeping out, we want to put our meat in your mouth. We want to put our beep in your mouth. We beeped out, we want to put our meat in your mouth. Your beep. And so we beat it out. But that's not what they wanted us to beep. Yeah, I, I, we were always trying to do what they wanted, but also maintain an audience and maintain the entertainment value of it, for God's sake.
- [52:14]
Dan
Well, I had a hard time. I don't know how much of this creeped into your work or your rebellion or wherever it is you are an anarchist. I just simply had a hard time respecting anybody in management. Just it just I respect them as human beings, obviously, but I'm just talking about respecting the judgment or taste of anyone in management. So a lot of the things that I would end up doing would be to, to mock. Yeah, but what you're doing there, like that's a level of subversion. You can't go into an office and say, well, we bleeped it. Like, as if you did didn't know what you were doing.
- [52:48]
Phil Hendry
We believed it.
- [52:49]
Dan
Yeah, but it's a fundamental lack of respect you're showing there because you're surrounded, I mean, look, you can be nice to some of them, but you're surrounded by fools.
- [52:57]
Phil Hendry
Well, and you know, you're working your ass off too, Dan. You know this. You're working your. I'm not going in there. I'm not some. The thing that I resented more than anything was them thinking I was some kind of weed smoking dope, stupid jive ass comic guy that leaves the station, goes and have drinks at the bar and goes with his girlfriend. I worked my ass off. I was a professional. I had, I won't say who because I had a GM bring me into his office one day and say, people are saying, you're getting stoned before the show. I said, you tell me who that is because I'm A, I'm gonna go to the union right now, B, I'm gonna call my attorney. Well, you never saw a guy shit his pants quicker because GM's coming up. When I was a kid, they pushed you around and just told you how it was gonna be. And by that point in my career, I was gonna take that shit, especially saying somebody, I'm using drugs. And I didn't so much as have a drink the same day I was doing a show. You know, I was a total professional all the way through. But because I was such a weird ass, some dude on a sales staff someplace said, henry must be smoking dope or something, he must be taking drugs. And this fucking general manager listened to that, got baited by that and asked me, are you using drugs? I said, not only am I not using drugs, I'm going to insist that that son of a bitch apologize to me now or I'm taking this to the goddamn union. And he did.
- [54:13]
Dan
I hate to hear all of that be so serious. I think I would have enjoyed the Phil Henry show on drugs. I think that would have been. I think that would have been pretty fun to listen to.
- [54:22]
Phil Hendry
I imagine I couldn't control anything I was doing on drugs.
- [54:25]
Dan
This is another thing that you're bringing up there.
- [54:28]
Phil Hendry
You being on drugs. That would have been a more entertaining thing to take the show.
- [54:32]
Dan
I think we need to allow more broadcasters the freedom of being on drugs so that they could be their truest and most reckless selves. But people don't how much you care, right? Like what you're articulating there is. It may look to you like I'm just being a silly fool. You have no earthly idea that this is the most important thing in my life.
- [54:52]
Phil Hendry
It's very disciplined, it's very structured. And I'm speaking on behalf of anybody that you hear on the air that does this work. Everybody takes it seriously, you know, and we're, we're all, you know, effective in varying degrees. But how do you just go in and just act like some jackass beat and, you know, when you got a major market gig and you're making all this bread and people are relying on you, it Just doesn't happen.
- [55:14]
Dan
And you're realizing your dreams, right? Because when did you feel most successful? Like, when on the path, were you able to enjoy it the most? Because every day wasn't a fight because you felt like you had the support of the people that you needed the support of, or you felt like you figured it out that time might be now?
- [55:31]
Phil Hendry
Well, I mean, in the professional realm, probably when I was at Premier Radio and the early days of our syndication, 2001, 2002, that kind of thing, we really had it cranking, man. We really had it going. We had a great audience in la. We were building our national audience. We had maybe by that point, maybe approaching 200 affiliates. And, yeah, right then. But I'm not saying I had. A lot of things were going on in my personal life. I had a marriage that was falling apart. God help me. I decided, well, I'm having all this great success. What good can I do for the world? I know I'll get married and do that. And that was my Catholicism kicking in. What I should have done is just said, now I can party, I can party. Let me just go out and be Phil and have a good time. But I always felt like I needed to pay the world back for whatever good happened to me.
- [56:24]
Dan
Oh, so you're saying you went and you got professionally happy, but you weren't able to enjoy it because you weren't personally happy?
- [56:29]
Phil Hendry
Right. I felt like, okay, now I need to go out and do something, some good. Look at the pinnacle you've reached, Phil. After all that work, after all that heart, after doubting yourself. And then you believed in yourself, you tried it, you took, you rolled the dice, you won. And look where you are now. By God, I must. I gotta do something to be worthy of it. Now, what kind of sick thinking is that? I think it's my Catholicism kicking in. And I went and I was in therapy at the time. This wonderful woman who looked like one of the. The fairy godmothers from Cinderella. Her name was Lou Katzman. She's a great therapist. She said, phil, she said, you grew up in a home that was busted up, four kids spread to the wind. What do you think you were going to do? I said, what do you mean? You were trying to save your family. You were trying to go out and recreate the Hendry family and make it work this time. And she said, it doesn't work that way, man. You need to take care of yourself and feel your joy. So.
- [57:26]
Dan
Well, why would you feel worthy, though? Who in your house would have Taught you what self love looked like.
- [57:30]
Phil Hendry
Right on. You know, And I'm not blaming anybody,
- [57:33]
Dan
but
- [57:35]
Phil Hendry
it was a home of such dysfunction that everybody suffered, you know, and anyway.
- [57:44]
Dan
But when you're talking about that dysfunction. Right. We haven't gotten into the details, but in order to take care of yourself at some point in the home, wherever our patterns are, we learn whatever love is supposed to look or feel like. In your home as a child, you're not experiencing something that feels like love.
- [58:03]
Phil Hendry
No. I think my folks were trying at it. They were attempting to make it happen. One of the things that. I don't know, man, my mother was depressed. My father was extremely angry. In fact, I used to love the Honeymooners because Ralph Kramden reminded me a lot of my dad. You didn't know who was coming through the door time the at night. A happy man or a really angry man. But I did this thing, and this was my instinct. This is a pure instinct, as I must have been 10. I wrote a Magna Carta for the family. We will not fight anymore. And I had everybody sign it now, what the hell? I mean, that's a sad thing, man. But that tells you who I was at the age of 10. I was trying to pull everybody together. And I remember my father reluctant. He wasn't reluctant. I think he felt ashamed. And he put his name to it, you know? You know, I wanted our family to work. I wanted us to be happy. I didn't want to. I didn't want the neighbors to hear my mom and dad screaming at each other, you know, and until finally I just gave up, you know, and you do, and you're a teenager, so there's all kinds of great things out there. Girls, drugs, you know, being funny, going wherever the hell you want to go, doing what you want to do, stealing food if you have to.
- [59:18]
Dan
It's a depressing end to what it is we've done here. Can I talk to Principal Vagina?
- [59:23]
Phil Hendry
You may.
- [59:24]
Dan
Is he here?
- [59:24]
Phil Hendry
Well, he's here right now, and I can tell you, I wish I could remember some of the lines from the show.
- [59:32]
Dan
It doesn't seem. It doesn't seem like you love Principal Vagina as much as I love Principal.
- [59:37]
Phil Hendry
I have to get into character, though. But let me tell you something right now. The big sky, the big head in the sky, you know, that's a character that isn't really. It's my voice. But Justin just wrote that character thing for me.
- [59:51]
Dan
So it's your voice, but it's not your writing. And therefore you're not as proud of the characters you create.
- [59:57]
Phil Hendry
I love doing that.
- [59:57]
Dan
I'm not. I'm not saying you don't love doing the character. I'm saying you love most. The Phil Henry created, soaked in nothing but 100% Phil Henry characters. Those are the ones you love the most?
- [60:08]
Phil Hendry
I think so. Yeah.
- [60:09]
Dan
Yeah, yeah. Meet them all@philhenryshow.com Again, a huge inspiration for me. Thank you so much for spending this time with us. And just thank you for the. For the permission.
- [60:21]
Phil Hendry
Oh, dude. You know, thank you, Dan. And thank you for telling me all this stuff, because I never knew it.
- [60:27]
Dan
You know, you have no way of knowing it. We were doing. We were working in different worlds.
- [60:31]
Phil Hendry
Right?
- [60:32]
Dan
Your. I did. I'm telling you, I was fascinated by radio because of you, but I had no access to it. We were.
- [60:37]
Phil Hendry
Were. All.
- [60:38]
Dan
My path was all print. It was all print stuff. It was all writing and stuff.
- [60:43]
Phil Hendry
But look at how naturally you fell into it, man, and became such a superstar in your own right. And you unplugged a whole rushing a river of creativity.
- [60:56]
Dan
You say natural, but it was. Yeah. Like, did you go through a period
- [61:00]
Phil Hendry
of, oh, God, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't want to do. This is scaring the hell out of me.
- [61:04]
Dan
Well, I got to all of my dreams in writing, and it didn't feel like there was enough there, just because the act of writing is so lonely. So I wasn't doing anything that was communal. I wasn't doing anything that was shared. It was just, I'd write something, it would be deeply fulfilling to write it well. But then once I got into, like, 10 or 15 years of doing it, there were some moments along the way. I remember one more than any other. The Miami Heat had just won the championship in 2006, which is about the time that I was starting to do. Do all of this, and Dwyane Wade's throwing the basketball up in the air, and that's just a giant moment. And as I'm writing it on deadline, I'm saying, I've written so many of these. Like, I've written so. And that is just not the emotion when you're writing for Miami and taking such pride in writing.
- [61:51]
Phil Hendry
The moment of a championship. Yeah.
- [61:52]
Dan
Oh, was so. It was. I remember telling somebody afterward in the. In the post game cocktail party, like, just sort of in a championship glove, oh, my God, I've got to figure out other things to do. I can't keep doing this this way.
- [62:05]
Phil Hendry
That's a trip, man.
- [62:06]
Dan
That's the same thing you're saying 17 years, right? Where you're like, wait a minute. This thing that I dreamt of, like,
- [62:13]
Phil Hendry
it's not happening, bro. Yeah, it's not. I got to do something. Even if I. Even if I die. I mean, that's really what it was. Even if I die, I got to change this. If I go and I. And I'm Phil Henry for a day, that'll be worth it, you know? So you do you. You kind of. It's not a pact with God so much. It's a promise to yourself. You're going to. It's a life and death moment, and you will challenge death just to get to where you want to be. I don't know if you. You probably were there, but you just don't want to admit it.
- [62:43]
Dan
I didn't know it. I'm not sure I knew it. Right. I'm sitting in a.
- [62:48]
Phil Hendry
It's your life. It's your life, man. So naturally, it's life and death. If I can't have my life, well, what's. What's the alternative? So I gotta do this. Yeah. And you, dude, kicked ass, so thank you, sir.
- [63:00]
Dan
You.
- [63:01]
Phil Hendry
I'm proud of you, too, man.
- [63:03]
Dan
You also kicked ass. We kicked ass.
- [63:06]
Phil Hendry
Let's go out and do some more of that stuff, man. I like that.
- [63:08]
Dan
Keep kicking ass.
- [63:10]
Phil Hendry
Keep kicking ass.