The Big Suey: 7 vs. 70 (feat. Mike Florio)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: 7 vs. 70 (feat. Mike Florio) The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Release Date: June 30, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Dan LeBatard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan LeBatard and Stugotz delve into a mix of sports controversies, lighthearted family competitions, and an in-depth discussion with NFL analyst Mike Florio. The episode seamlessly blends humor with serious analysis, offering listeners a comprehensive look at current sports narratives.

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NHL Executive of the Year Award Controversy

Timestamps: [05:03] – [11:17]

The episode kicks off with a heated debate surrounding the recent selection of the NHL Executive of the Year. Dan raises questions about the legitimacy of the award's outcome, particularly focusing on Bill Zito's omission despite his significant contributions to his team.

Key Points:

• Voting Process Concerns: The award is decided by a 42-member panel comprising 32 General Managers (GMs), five NHL executives, and five media members. Dan and co-hosts express skepticism about the fairness and transparency of this selection process.

• Masai Ujiri's Dismissal: Dan highlights the surprising firing of Masai Ujiri from the Raptors despite his successful track record, questioning the criteria used for executive evaluations.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan LeBatard [05:21]: "There was a time Ujiri could have had just about any architectural plan he wanted because he was such a hot executive. Now he's fired. What did he buy himself with that championship?"

• Billy Corben [10:14]: "It's a small voting panel. Fishy is that it's very apparent that Bill Zito should have won the award."

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Greg Cody's 7 vs. 70 Competition

Timestamps: [11:17] – [17:53]

Transitioning from serious discussions, the show introduces a humorous segment featuring Greg Cody and his son Chris in their unique "7 vs. 70" competition. The segment showcases father-son dynamics as they engage in various playful challenges.

Key Points:

• Experimental Podcast: Chris explains that this is an experimental segment aimed at exploring uncharted territories in sports media.

• Competition Highlights: The hosts humorously critique Greg's attempts in activities like rock climbing, egg-and-spoon races, and walking, emphasizing the generational gap between Greg and his 7-year-old competitor.

Notable Quotes:

• Jon Weiner [12:06]: "I have been in that pool. That's the shallow end. At the end, Greg is simply walking."

• Billy Corben [16:52]: "I think it's a very fair question... if she can't climb a rock wall faster than pop, it's not a rock wall."

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NFL Collusion Story with Mike Florio

Timestamps: [24:29] – [43:28]

The heart of the episode features an in-depth conversation with Mike Florio, a renowned NFL analyst with a legal background. The discussion centers on a significant NFL collusion case uncovered by Pablo Torre, exploring its implications and the apparent lack of media coverage.

Key Points:

• Background of the Case: Florio recounts how he and Pablo Torre investigated a collusion grievance filed by the NFL Players Association (NFLPA) concerning fully guaranteed contracts for certain quarterbacks.

• Arbitrator's Ruling: Despite substantial evidence suggesting collusion among NFL owners to suppress guaranteed contracts, the arbitrator ruled in favor of the NFL, a decision Florio and Torre find controversial and unjust.

• Lack of Media Attention: Despite the gravity of the findings, the story has not gained widespread media traction. Florio criticizes the NFL and the NFLPA for suppressing the narrative and highlights the challenges in bringing such issues to light.

• Damning Evidence: Florio details specific pieces of evidence from the arbitrator's report that indicate deliberate collusion among NFL owners, including communications between team executives that resemble collusive behavior in other industries.

• Call to Action: Florio urges journalists and NFL insiders to continue scrutinizing the case, emphasizing the need for transparency and accountability within the league.

Notable Quotes:

• Mike Florio [25:09]: "The NFL was caught with its hand in the collusion cookie jar... they were caught red-handed telling teams to collude."

• Jon Weiner [33:09]: "This is what I'm gonna do with Florio. Now, I'm gonna give you a second here to gather your thoughts on this."

• Mike Florio [33:53]: "We've developed a friendly competition. Let's see who gets it first. He got it. And it was amazing because at the end of the day, the NFL was caught with its hand in the collusion cookie jar."

Top Three Damning Details from the Arbitrator's Report:

1. Footnote 25 - JC Treader's Whistleblowing:

   • Mike Florio [34:22]: "Footnote 25 shows that JC Treader had reason to keep this thing quiet... to protect his aspirations to become the NFLPA executive director."

2. Greg Penner's Coordination:

   • Mike Florio [35:35]: "Greg Penner, the former Walmart CEO running the Broncos, was informing other owners about the Russell Wilson deal, indicating coordination between competing businesses."

3. Spanos and Bidwell's Exchange:

   • Mike Florio [37:39]: "The exchange between Chargers owner Dean Spanos and Cardinals owner Michael Bidwell shows direct coordination and collusion to suppress fully guaranteed contracts."

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Conclusion

The episode adeptly balances serious investigative discussions with lighthearted segments, offering listeners both depth and entertainment. The conversation with Mike Florio serves as a critical examination of NFL practices, urging both the media and the public to seek greater transparency and accountability within professional sports leagues.

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Notable Moments & Quotes:

• Dan LeBatard [09:11]: "I don't get that move at all. There has to be more to it than just on-ice success. I don't get it."

• Mike Florio [40:24]: "Anybody who covers the various teams that are implicated in this... should all be on it. They won't be."

• Dan LeBatard [43:23]: "Everybody wants Tomlin to be on the hot seat except Art Rooney. They're never going to fire Mike Tomlin."

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This episode underscores the show's commitment to uncovering beneath-the-surface sports issues while maintaining its signature humor and camaraderie. Whether you're a die-hard sports fan or a casual listener, The Dan LeBatard Show with Stugotz offers a nuanced and entertaining perspective on the ever-evolving world of sports.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

Now's a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila.

[Jon Weiner]

Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

What are you doing here?

[Jon Weiner]

Cuervo? Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I do know that to be true. But even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think he could lay out. Especially for one of our great partners.

[Jon Weiner]

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.

[Jon Weiner]

Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all.

[Jon Weiner]

Cuervo. Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo.com Please drink responsibly.

[Jon Weiner]

Cuervo. Why are there ridges on Reese's peanut butter cups? Probably so they never slip from her hands. Could you imagine I'd lose it? Luckily, Reese has thought about that. Wonder what else they think about. Probably chocolate and peanut butter.

[Greg Cody]

Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings.

[Jon Weiner]

Why are you listening to this show.

[Greg Cody]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry.

[Chris Cody]

I'm not gonna apologize for that.

[Greg Cody]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Jon Weiner]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it.

[Greg Cody]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Billy Corben]

And now the Looks Like Game with Tim Kirchen.

[Jon Weiner]

Does Joe Madden look like your grandma's new boyfriend? Does Kyle Schwarber look like the kid in your fourth grade class who can burp the Alphabet? Does Bartolo Colon look like Andre the Giant when he was in third grade? Does Bryce Harper look like the guy who married Hunter Pence's wife while Hunter Pence lost at sea?

[Chris Cody]

Does Mel Kuiper look like the fatherly Protective Eagle? Does Adam Brook look like the agent who, after 007 has been felled, removes his mask, extends a hand and says graciously, welcome to Tangier, Mr. Bod.

[Jon Weiner]

Does Paul Skin look like the upand cominging country singer who just had to publicly apologize after old tweets resurface? Or does he look like the small town cop who looks the other way when local college kids buy beer from the corner store as long as they bring him his favorite candy bar, a Snickers, a Mountain Dew, and a copy of that day's paper? When they Does Adam Schefter look like the scientist in a white lab coat on a gasoline commercial? Or, or, or does he look more like the squeamish veterinarian from a Wild west movie who audibly gulps when a weapon is placed in his hand? Does Adam Silver look like a decorative caviar spoon? Does he look like a small town's water tower? Does he look like he administers truth serum? Look, Adam. Does he look like a library reference desk clerk who moonlights as the lead singer of a Devo cover band? Does he look like the mentally unbalanced Russian nuclear scientist with no spoken lines in a Sylvester Stallone movie?

[Mike Florio]

He looks like a lone French fry in a bag of onion rings. Oh, it's so bad. I can't believe you do that to this guy.

[Jon Weiner]

Does he look like a tire pressure gaze? Does he look like a nurse at an old folks home? A dissipating smoke from a blown out birthday candle? A teed up golf ball?

[Chris Cody]

Yeah.

[Jon Weiner]

Does Adam Silver look like a generic proctologist on a community college pamphlet for Crohn's disease? Does Adam Silver look like Dracula's vampire Empire accountant named Calcula? Does he look like an unusually long middle toe? Doesn't look like Bob Barker's microphone? Does he look like a xylophone mallet? Does Adam Silver looked like Scott van Pelt 15 seconds after opening the Ark of the Covenant?

[Tim Kirchen]

Oh my God.

[Jon Weiner]

Greg. Who are you railing against? Particularly when you yell about Bill Zito's omission as Executive of the Year? Do you know who you're railing against? Do you know who the voting committee is on this?

[Billy Corben]

I do not.

[Jon Weiner]

Okay, because the Executive of the Year, it's known as the Jim Gregory General Manager of the year award. It's 42 member panel, 32 GMs. Okay, five NHL executives and five print or broadcast media members.

[Billy Corben]

And Roy, Journalist Roy.

[Jon Weiner]

So that's the group though. It's 42. So who are you rail like? What are you railing against? It's the GMs are the ones who are telling you that that that's the vote of the majority of the voters.

[Billy Corben]

Okay, there's something fishy here. If I'm Speaking to those 42 voters right now, I am saying why not the two time champion who has swung this deal and that deal and this deal and that deal and the Kachuk trade, one of the greatest in the history of the league. What exactly are you looking for in that trophy that Bill Zito hasn't earned? I want them to explain their decision making, that's all.

[Chris Cody]

I think if you. I'm backing up my dad here. If you put all the GMs in a room and you just say the last. I know. It's a yearly award. The last two years. Team you would like to be, team that seems to be put together the best. I mean, isn't it obvious? Like, this is. It's crazy. It's not like they're a Cinderella. Like, this team everyone acknowledges, like, is just the depth every position. They're not weak.

[Jon Weiner]

RSGM has wanted three years in a row.

[Roy Bellamy]

Three years in a row where they've lost in the conference finals every season.

[Jon Weiner]

All right, so this is. This is what I wanted to ask you guys within the context of this, because I saw that last week and I didn't want to just skip right past it, that Masai Ujiri was out with the Raptors. And this was a person who I knew to be good at his job. He won a championship in Toronto. He made the right moves that allowed him to get the right players. This was someone who's talented at his job. But the thing that I wanted to present to the audience, because these things expire fast, right? That genius is now gone. There was a time Ujiri could have had just about any architecture plan he wanted because he was such a hot executive. He won in Toronto. How the hell did they win a basketball championship in Toronto? All of that goodwill is gone because the Raptors haven't been relevant recently. And the thing that I wanted to ask you guys about, what we're asking these GMs to be in the modern age when they keep up with evolution. I saw over the weekend that Andre Drummond opted in with the Sixers for $5 million. It is a small contract. Very few people will care about it. Today's big on free agency, and the free agency thing is kind of dead in basketball. Julius Randle and everyone else is signing with their own teams. The LeBron thing is interesting. We'll get to it in a second. But Andre Drummond, what I wanted to say about him is at one time in my life when that man was 20 years old, I, and I'm assuming Stan Van Gundy, said, I'd like that as the centerpiece for how I play basketball for the rest of my life. I'd like a 20 year old that size who's going to offer offensive rebound better than anyone and dunk a lot. And the whole game changed as soon as he got into the league. And so what you're asking these JMs to do is not merely win and be competitive, but it's also stay ahead of the entirety of the Curve because Ujiri won it one way and then the super teams came back and won it again. And now we're back to it's not really a super team as what it has to be. It now looks a little bit more like what Ujiri built in Toronto. And so when I ask you the assessments right now of that guy won a championship in Toronto, you can credit Kawhi Leonard if you want, but we all discovered Pascal Siakam at the same time. During those playoffs, Ujiri's reputation was solid as the young executive who knows what he's doing. And now he's fired. And I assume he'll get another job. I assume he's still respected. But what did he buy himself with that championship if a few years later, winning a championship in Toronto gets you fired?

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't get that move at all. And I did a I implore the audience to go check out that 2019 Raptors roster because at the time it felt like this is a funky little outlier that took advantage of some Golden State injuries. That team would still be in the conversation right now. They were friggin loaded. And they were at the very start of this new way of roster construction in the NBA. He did it in Denver, he did it in Toronto. Toronto was feisty. They seem to be. I would certainly hand over the keys, continue handing over the keys to Messiah Ujiri and say, we trust you in this NBA. You've done it once before. I don't really get the move. There has to be more to it.

[Jon Weiner]

Does there? Because I believe the life, the lifespan on these things. So far we've got fishy over here. We've got fishy on Bill Zito. What's the accusation exactly. When you call something fishy, I need you. I. You've done no reporting on this. You didn't even know who you were railing against. And yet you called it fishy. It seems like the conspiracy theories. It seems not very journalistic of you.

[Billy Corben]

It's a small voting panel. I thought it was 16 or 18. It turns out to be 42. What's fishy is that it's very apparent that Bill Zito should have won the award at one point over the last two seasons. Now it's. It should be a quantifiable award. I'm not saying it has to go to the GM of the Stanley cup champion every year, but that's a pretty good start.

[Jon Weiner]

Understand what I'm saying? If you're making an accusation of fishy, I need to know what it Is that you're saying. Because you're saying that something is suspect, it's corrupt, that there's a reason, it's a bad decision. No, but. But fishy's different than that. It's a. Fishy is a purposely bad decision.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't understand the logic. Okay, I get why he did it. Last year he had a really deep team. He makes it to the conference finals. This year, it ended in embarrassment. He ends up firing the head coach. This is. This is an award that is handed out during the NHL draft. It actually looks like Dallas has to rework their roster a little bit. So I'm very confused as to why there has to be more to it than just on ice success. I don't. I don't get it.

[Jon Weiner]

Forgive me for spending this much of the show today without addressing the most serious of things that needed to be addressed, which is the Greg Cody and his son Chris are trying to create a lane no one in sports media has ever dared to tackle before. On the Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody, I believe they are alone in this lane. There are no other occupants. Historically in grandpa against granddaughter in the Greg Cody Show Family Olympics 7 vs 70. I have been told that we have swimming video of Greg Cody laboriously swimming across a very shallow and small pool at a very slow rate of speed. Less swimming than surviving.

[Chris Cody]

Wearing goggles.

[Jon Weiner]

Wearing goggles. And now at the end, seemingly just walking.

[Tim Kirchen]

I'm sorry, do they not wear goggles in the Olympics? Like, I don't understand that criticism.

[Billy Corben]

Thank you.

[Jon Weiner]

We're.

[Chris Cody]

We're subs. We're not putting in the sound here because we don't want to give away who's winning. This is the finish to a big race. Who had the better time? The 7 year old or the 70 year old?

[Jon Weiner]

I. I have been in that pool. That pool. It. That's the shallow end. At the end, Greg is simply walking. He is.

[Mike Florio]

At the start of it.

[Chris Cody]

He like runs four steps before he starts swimming.

[Billy Corben]

Not really. I pushed off like the Olympians do.

[Tim Kirchen]

I have a question for you, Greg and I. I haven't listened yet. It's early. I haven't listened. I'm usually like a Tuesday consumer of the Greg Cody Show.

[Billy Corben]

Billy, in fairness to you, this. We're teasing this episode which comes out next week.

[Tim Kirchen]

Okay, good.

[Billy Corben]

The current episode is something whole different.

[Chris Cody]

We have a hitchhiker and a bacon expert on this week.

[Tim Kirchen]

Wait, your daughter picking up hitchhikers?

[Chris Cody]

No, no, no. It's just me and my dad talking to a hitchhiker who's hitchhiked over 250,000 miles in his life.

[Billy Corben]

68 year old man.

[Jon Weiner]

You're trying to hitchhiker. Which you pointed out, among many other, you know, problematic things with the hitchhiker is the murder rate climbed with hitchhiking and then hitchhiking fell out of favor. You explained to us last week. Now you're, you're just continuing the thread on the tapestry that is the Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody by bringing on a noted hitchhiker and also a bacon expert. Because you left here with a truly breathtaking amount of bacon last week. It's more bacon than I've ever seen a single human being or leave a place with.

[Billy Corben]

Yeah, I can't eat it fast enough.

[Jon Weiner]

No, you said you'd eat it all. I'm like, you will never eat all of that bacon. It's not possible. You will, you will die before you eat all of that bacon.

[Billy Corben]

Not necessarily, but we have a bacon salesman from Minnesota, a mail carrier from Queens, New York, and a 68 year old world globe trotting hitchhiker on the, on the current episode of the Great Cody show podcast.

[Chris Cody]

But then next week is the big one.

[Billy Corben]

Yeah, but, but today's is very much an experimental podcast. We're going to see how it does. We get to know three of our biggest show fans who all have interesting stories to tell.

[Tim Kirchen]

I was going to ask why the mail carrier, the bacon. We kind of set up the hitchhiker. We kind of. The mail carrier just seems a little out of the box.

[Chris Cody]

It's interesting. I mean, everyone here gets mail, deals with mail. We ask them. We get into the nuts and bolts of, you know, the ugly parts, the pretty parts of being a mail carrier.

[Billy Corben]

What should people never say to a mail carrier? Is the carrier versus dog real or imagined? Do you judge people by the mail you're delivering to them? You know, stuff like that.

[Chris Cody]

At which point he's like, I don't snoop in their mail.

[Tim Kirchen]

That's what you gotta say. Everybody know if you're a mail carrier, that's what you gotta say.

[Billy Corben]

Come on now.

[Jon Weiner]

It won't surprise you guys at all, right? That I've probably gone more than 10 years without getting a piece of mail.

[Tim Kirchen]

That's not true. It's impossible.

[Jon Weiner]

No, it's not. I, in terms of that gets through my wife and it stops before. I haven't gone to a mailbox. I haven't, I haven't seen a piece of mail in more than 10 years. I'm not even joking.

[Billy Corben]

And yet you buy Explosives.

[Tim Kirchen]

It is odd. It is odd. I mean, maybe it's just been a setup, Greg, you know what I mean? Like, I haven't seen mail in 10 years, but I have all these explosives.

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah, just make sure you don't put.

[Tim Kirchen]

I've never been at the post office, but I like to go to the bank.

[Billy Corben]

This guy.

[Tim Kirchen]

It's odd. Yeah, something's up here. Keep an eye on him. FBI.

[Jon Weiner]

Maybe fishy somewhere. So we.

[Chris Cody]

We buried the lead. We also have my dad climbing a rock here.

[Mike Florio]

No, I'm not really.

[Jon Weiner]

Yes, I'm getting there. The slow route. This is the big payoff. I'm not in a big hurry to get to your dead. Rock climbing. Now we've teased it properly, but also.

[Chris Cody]

I've him running with an egg on a spoon.

[Billy Corben]

Look at my height advantage there. I'm gonna dominate.

[Mike Florio]

Or will.

[Jon Weiner]

It's great. Executive producing all around.

[Tim Kirchen]

We'll get to that.

[Jon Weiner]

Yeah.

[Tim Kirchen]

Pace ourselves.

[Jon Weiner]

We've got a whole Olympics in front of us. And the Greg Cody featuring Greg Cody requires promotion.

[Tim Kirchen]

Now, Greg, I don't want to. I don't want to cast doubt or question onto your 7 versus 7D Olympics. You guys, I will say love the Olympics. You guys are constantly having competitions against each other every summer. It seems like it's a thing you guys do a lot.

[Jon Weiner]

Now she's going to win when it's eight against 80. Well, here's.

[Tim Kirchen]

Here's my question. I hope you didn't give any spoilers there. Here's the question, though, because a lot of grandpappies, they let the granddaughters win. Is this something that we, as the listeners should be concerned about? You may be throwing it to build up Lil Graceland's confidence. Like you let her win some of these competitions to keep things competitive.

[Chris Cody]

If only that's how it went.

[Tim Kirchen]

I want some integrity in these 7 versus 70.

[Billy Corben]

I think it's a very fair question that Billy asks. And I can honestly say no. I'm gonna crush her if I can.

[Tim Kirchen]

All right.

[Billy Corben]

Okay.

[Tim Kirchen]

That's what I want to hear.

[Billy Corben]

I'm gonna be honest because I don't believe in coddling someone and saying, oh, here's a consolation ribbon. A participation ribbon. No, if she can't climb a rock wall faster than pop, it's not a rock wall.

[Chris Cody]

It's at a play place.

[Billy Corben]

She doesn't deserve to rock.

[Jon Weiner]

All right, but let's. And forgive me, I. I'm sure we'll. I'll be hearing from my math friends that it can't be 8 against 80 if it's 7 against 70.

[Billy Corben]

I'm gonna let you slide on that.

[Jon Weiner]

But let's. Let's play this aforementioned timing, please, where you guys can see both the dramatic tension of Greg trying to indeed kick his grandma.

[Chris Cody]

He gets off to a good start.

[Jon Weiner]

Watch what happens.

[Tim Kirchen]

Wow. No shoes.

[Jon Weiner]

Yeah.

[Chris Cody]

I make you wear these.

[Jon Weiner]

No, those are professional. Yes. Rock climbing socks.

[Dan LeBatard]

Despite the hot start.

[Jon Weiner]

Yes. Grandpa's getting left behind. I also saw a video of how tired grandpa is. But we've got to cut this video first. We got to cut it so now. All right.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's climbing the rock.

[Tim Kirchen]

We didn't want you guys to see.

[Chris Cody]

Who won, so we're cutting to the end. He watches her go down.

[Jon Weiner]

Now watch Greg here. Oh, yes. And we all got very scared. That would have been a 70 year old falling on his head for the audio audience.

[Chris Cody]

My dad sees my daughter do the classic push off the wall and fall down nicely. And he like, you see him like a child. Look at her like, oh, she's.

[Jon Weiner]

Oh, that's tight right there. That's tight in the groin. That's tight in the groin. Everybody look out. Everybody look out, everybody. That's unpleasant. We don't want that.

[Chris Cody]

Good for him doing this.

[Jon Weiner]

No, let's not do this.

[Dan LeBatard]

Looks like you got a massive hammer there.

[Jon Weiner]

Let's not do this.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm glad you guys cut out the ending of that Ra. I had no idea how it ended.

[Tim Kirchen]

There's also a time on the wall so you could see. Exactly.

[Jon Weiner]

Greg was unbelievably winded. At the end of that, I saw. At the end of that, I saw a wheezing Greg Cody. Going back to the point that I was making earlier, though.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hell yeah, Greg.

[Jon Weiner]

If I told you guys, Andre Drummond as a 20 year old, would you like to lock up all the things that he is for the next 15 years of basketball?

[Dan LeBatard]

As you also famously Dwight Howard to start your franchise over LeBron.

[Jon Weiner]

Yep. Speaking of LeBron. Yes. Because I didn't pass that one.

[Dan LeBatard]

And he wanted Odin over kd. Yes, he was.

[Jon Weiner]

I didn't see it coming.

[Dan LeBatard]

Dan didn't. No one. Very few people did.

[Chris Cody]

Hibbert over Duncan.

[Dan LeBatard]

Joe Cronin should have probably seen it with Ayton.

[Roy Bellamy]

Hibbert over Duncan. I forgot about that one.

[Jon Weiner]

Jesus Christ. No, that was just. That was one series.

[Tim Kirchen]

Duncan Robinson over Kevin Durant.

[Jon Weiner]

That was.

[Tim Kirchen]

Oh, no, that's Pat Riley. Sorry.

[Jon Weiner]

When you look back at the career of Andre Drummond, he ends up being just another guy who made a lot of money and will be one of the best offensive rebounders ever. And the whole sport changed around him very rapidly. And at the end of his career, he's signing a one year, $5 million deal, which makes him a below league average talent that he's opting into a contract on. Are you guys going to be disappointed that there isn't going to be much in the transaction realm today? But transaction that is or was interesting, is LeBron opting back in at that age for 53 million and then immediately declaring through his agent that the Lakers are on notice, they should be building for the future. But LeBron wants to win now when LeBron just opted into that contract and has a no trade clause, which is a weird public pressure to put on the Lakers when you're beginning right now to have all the power at the end of your career, only you and Bradley Beal have a no trade clause. It was such a weird thing to see LeBron opt in and then immediately have Rich Paul put pressure on the Lakers when he's got the no trade clause. The Lakers don't have any power here.

[Roy Bellamy]

Exactly. It gives him more power to get to wherever he ultimately wants to go, whether that's Cleveland or somewhere else. Teams that don't have salary cap flexibility right now, now are in the game for LeBron James, but there are going.

[Jon Weiner]

To be very few teams that end up trading for one year of. Of $50 million of LeBron. Right. Like that's not Bobby Mark says there is no trade market for LeBron on that front, which is a bit surprising.

[Dan LeBatard]

Would you trade Tyler Hero for him? I would.

[Jon Weiner]

I can't believe that there's no trade market.

[Dan LeBatard]

I would. I would do that deal. I would do that. What, one year of LeBron James for Tyler Hero. Yes. Where do I sign?

[Tim Kirchen]

Is there no trade market? Because no one's even going to bother asking because they like. No. LeBron's going to have to decide to.

[Dan LeBatard]

Come dictate where he wants.

[Tim Kirchen]

You think Orlando's going to bother calling to be like, oh, does LeBron want to come to the.

[Jon Weiner]

That's a complicated. That's a complicated to bring on for a contender. It's not the easiest trade in the world to make. They can figure it out. But it's basketball.

[Tim Kirchen]

They always figure it out. Those numbers seem to mean nothing. Like the salary cap seems so easy to skirt in the NBA because they always find the. If they want it to happen, it always happens somehow.

[Roy Bellamy]

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[Unknown Speaker]

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[Mike Florio]

And breathe.

[Unknown Speaker]

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[Greg Cody]

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[Jon Weiner]

Don LeBatard.

[Chris Cody]

Yeah, very cool. Imagine if someone told you you couldn't have a Corvette.

[Jon Weiner]

Stugats.

[Billy Corben]

I'm a grown ass man who's not not filthy rich. I can't afford a Lamborghini. Well, I probably can, but that's.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hey.

[Tim Kirchen]

Greg, this is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugats.

[Jon Weiner]

I wanted to bring in Mike Florio here because a story from last week, I want to continue to put it in front of you. And Florio is also is not just someone who's great at the football information. He's also got a legal background that allows him to parse through some issues that the rest of the media is very good at avoiding. So, Mike, thank you for joining us. I wanted you just to help walk me through what the Pablo Torre finds out story was in reality and why it didn't reverberate the way that I thought it should reverberate, why that story didn't have the legs that I thought it had. And thank you for joining us by the way.

[Mike Florio]

Hey Dan, thanks for having me. Great to talk to you again. This all started back really, really a few years ago when Damora Smith, the former NFLPA executive director, was on one of our shows, either PFT Live or PFT pm and he said that a collusion grievance was coming on the issue of fully guaranteed contracts for certain quarterbacks. And within weeks after that they filed it. This was October ish of 2022. The case proceeded from there and I did my best to monitor it. While these things are going on, everyone is subject to a confidentiality order and they don't talk much about it. But we knew what was happening generally. We knew when the hearing happened, we knew the ruling was coming. And then when the ruling came, January 15th of this past year, January 14th, to be more specific, no one said anything. The ruling came and that was it. Who won, who lost? Nobody would talk about it. And I was like, what the hell is going on here? Like, why would this ruling not come out? Well, it's confidential. No, the ruling's not confidential. The process is. The ruling isn't. You can talk about it. Why is nobody talking about it? So I started banging that drum back in late January, early February. And you know, the NFL always has a bright shiny object that can distract us and things can easily be ignored and overlooked and forgotten. And Michael Hawley and I were doing an episode of PFT Live right around Memorial Day. And I remember that this is still out there. And I became determined, entering the slow time with no bright shiny objects to Distract me. I gotta get this thing out there. So I was determined to do it. And Pablo and I were talking about other things. His Belichick coverage, because I like him, believe that it's something that is a bigger deal than many would say who were trying to shout it all down. So we got to know each other that way. We developed a friendly competition. Let's see who gets it first. He got it. And it was amazing because at the end of the day, the NFL was caught with its hand in the collusion cookie jar. The arbitrator gave them a pass. I think the arbitrator got it wrong. But they were caught red handed telling teams to collude when it comes to the issue of guaranteed money in contracts, specifically quarterback contracts. And I think it's a big deal, but the NFL doesn't want people to talk about it. The union buried the thing for reasons that still aren't obvious, because the union should be using it as a hammer. So that's it in a nutshell. The NFL rarely gets caught doing anything it shouldn't be doing. It got caught colluding and no one wants to talk about it. Even now, six days later, I can't get people to talk about it. Mainly cuz people fear reprisals.

[Jon Weiner]

Why is it that you and Pablo think it's a big deal and other people don't seem to?

[Mike Florio]

Well, I mean, you always have a bias that your reporting is important when it's the result of the work that you put in. I understand that, but I think the fact that this group of multibillion dollar businesses that are supposed to be operating independently, they have limited antitrust exemptions that allow them to come together from time to time. Beyond that, they're not allowed to come together. And it's been suspected for years when they get together four times a year, every three months or so, and March is the big annual meeting, it's been suspected that they do collude, they do compare notes. They just usually are cleaner about it. This time they got sloppy. This time there was a paper trail. This time there was circumstantial evidence of both a direction to collude and actual collusion. And it made it fascinating because we finally were able to show this is exactly what's going on. And Dan, like in so many other situations, the COVID up is worse than the crime and the failure of the nflpa. This is the most fascinating aspect of it to me, because this thing should have become a cudgel in multiple different ways and forms and fashions to try to Give the union some leverage against the league. They put the thing in a vault and locked it and won't talk about it. And both sides, they wouldn't let anybody read it. They didn't distribute the thing. It was like it never even happened. So. So what becomes far more compelling, I think, for Pablo and for me is the idea that once this thing hit, both sides have worked so hard to keep it a secret.

[Jon Weiner]

Do you have any hypotheticals there that we can get to on why it is that the union wouldn't want any of this seen? But before I get to that question, is there anything behind you in what seems like a really lovely kitchen that has any meaning to you? Is there any glass back there or anything behind you that would be something that you're attached to?

[Mike Florio]

No, it's just what's behind me. And this is actually. And I'm not trying to flex. I'm just answering your question. This is the wine cellar in the house that we bought that we keep no wine in. But the guy we bought the house from owned two businesses, a pool company and a winery. So he's got a really nice pool and a really nice wine cellar. And I just happen to have a router on the wall next to me. So it gives me uninterrupted. The guys from Pardon My Take like to say I'm in an Olive Garden restaurant, but what's behind me is what my wife has deemed suitable to be behind me when I do these.

[Billy Corben]

Mike, are those granite or marble countertops? Because they're absolutely splendid.

[Mike Florio]

They are marble. They are marble.

[Billy Corben]

That's a good choice by you. I want to ask you this question from a legal standpoint. Had the independent arbiter ruled in favor of. Of the players union and against the NFL, what would have been the ramification?

[Mike Florio]

Well, that's a great question, because we don't know how the damages would have been calculated, because the damages for what started as three quarterbacks, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, and Lamar Jackson, eventually expanded to include 594 other players who didn't get fully guaranteed contracts. The argument is, after the Sean Watson fully guaranteed contract, the league decided, we have to stop this. We have to get the teams to not do this. So they turned off the faucet. So every player who didn't get a fully guaranteed contract was in this group. But, you know, they. You'd have to almost figure out, player by player, how much money they lost by not having a fully guaranteed contract. Because what happens with these contracts once you get through the first year or Two, the team has the ability to tear it up and move on whenever it wants. How many guys had their contracts torn up? How many guys didn't? So I think it would have been a very complicated process for determining damages. But when you have that many players, it easily could have become a very, very large number. And you mentioned independent arbitrator. That's an important point here because it really isn't independent like a court. The arbitrator is selected by both the union and the league, and either side can pull the plug on the assignment at the end of the current term whenever they want. And I think there's a political analysis that any arbitrator in that kind of a setting has to do when, as in this case, he was expected. The argument was that the owners were claiming they don't collude, but the circumstantial evidence proved otherwise. You're basically finding that multiple NFL owners aren't telling the truth when they say we didn't collude because the circumstantial evidence proved otherwise. And I think that made it hard from a political standpoint for the arbitrator to come to that conclusion. Cuz I just think he got it wrong. I think not only was there an attempt by the league to collude, the owners did collude, and that's why the league ultimately won. The arbitrator wasn't willing to go that far and say they did collude.

[Jon Weiner]

What a fart noise for you and Pablo, though, for you guys to be here being like, ah, the arbiter got it wrong. You get the 61 page report, the arbiter's sitting there proving all the things that you want proven, and then at the end, he rules. I mean, it's just really, you're like reading it and you're like, oh, this is damning, this is damning, this is damning. The arbiter got the whole thing wrong.

[Mike Florio]

I mean, he twists himself into knots to dismiss the best evidence of collusion in action. And I practice law. You never get people on the witness stand admitting that they ordered the Code Red. You've got to thread the needle with circumstantial evidence and then argue to a jury that what the person said on the witness stand isn't true. And there was so much in there. If this would have gone in front of a jury, I'm confident the NFL would have lost. It's one of the reasons why big companies don't want to have to answer to juries. There's something about the collective wisdom of a jury of average people that can sniff through bull crap and come to compelling conclusions. That's what this needed. Not an arbitrator, but a jury that would have quickly found that the NFL was indeed colluding.

[Jon Weiner]

This is what I'm gonna do with Florio. Now, I'm gonna give you a second here to gather your thoughts on this. You have read the report now at least two times. 61. I ask you to think what you think the most interesting or damning or offensive details are in there. If there are three, if there are two, if there are four or five, and produce for me a top five list or a top three list in descending order or an ascending order of what is the most interesting fact in that report. Are you ready to do this?

[Mike Florio]

I can do that. I can do that. I can give you three.

[Jon Weiner]

All right, let's go. Yes. Let's start with number three, the bronze medalist.

[Mike Florio]

Well, the bronze medalist is footnote 25, which explains away JC Treader pejorative criticisms of Russell Wilson. Because Treader was the NFLPA president at the time. He had some choice things to say about Russell Wilson when he didn't hold the rope in this game of tug of war to try to make the Deshaun Watson fully guaranteed contract spread to others. Because if it had spread to others, maybe the new status quo would have been, everybody gets fully guaranteed contracts. So Treader didn't like that. He said some mean things about Wilson. And the thinking is one of the big reasons this thing got buried was to protect Shredder and his aspirations to become the NFLPA executive director at some point.

[Jon Weiner]

So your timing was bad on that Chris Cody, but I don't blame you. We're gonna get. We're gonna coach Mike Floriopa up a little more on this game. It's not your fault. It's okay.

[Mike Florio]

What did I do?

[Jon Weiner]

No, no, no. It's okay. We just sort of need number three, and you need to give us, like, a tight sentence, and then he hits the fanfare and then you explain it. You couldn't have known. You're a novice to the game. Sorry. That's okay. I blame Chris Cody, but it's all right. Number three.

[Mike Florio]

So number three, footnote 25, which shows that JC Treader had reason to keep this thing quiet.

[Jon Weiner]

That's how you. There it is. All right.

[Mike Florio]

You can't be taught.

[Roy Bellamy]

All right, number two, second chances.

[Jon Weiner]

Number number two.

[Mike Florio]

Number two, former Walmart CEO Greg Penner giving a crap about his competition.

[Jon Weiner]

Bang.

[Mike Florio]

Do you want more details?

[Jon Weiner]

Yes, that's where you elaborate. Yes, you're gonna. I'm the last one. You're really gonna nail this. I feel like we're gonna dismount perfectly.

[Mike Florio]

So so the discovery process that preceded the hearing in this case found internal communications, emails, texts, et cetera, where Greg Penner, the former Walmart CEO who was running the Broncos post August of 2022 and was there when they were doing the Russell contract. He was informing his other owners, the other partners in the ownership of the Broncos about the Wilson deal and making comments along the lines of other owners will like this. And the first thing I thought was this guy was the CEO of Walmart. Do you think there are any emails within Walmart when he was the CEO that had comments like Target will really like this. And it is absolute proof that these businesses that are supposed to be in competition are in coordination. Which is another way of saying in collusion. You should never care whether your business decisions will help a competitor. If anything, you want your business decisions to hurt a competitor. You want the thing that you do that is right for you to be wrong for your competitor and your competitor be forced to pick a bad lane. So that to me was so damning because in any other business, you are never going to think how this might help one of your competitors.

[Jon Weiner]

Number one, according to Mike Florio, Pablo Torrey fond finds out is the name of the podcast. This reporting was very strong. This episode, as most with Pablo R was very strong. Number one, Mike Florio.

[Mike Florio]

Well, and it would come from the table read that Pablo and I did of the text message exchange between Chargers owner Dean Spanos and Cardinals owner Michael Bidwell in that exchange. Yes, Spanos congratulated Bidwell on managing to hold the rope and have a non fully guaranteed contract for quarterback Kyler Murray. Along the way, Bidwell said, we fought hard to not have a fully guaranteed deal. There were comments made up about the ridiculous deal that Cleveland did with Deshaun Watson and Spanos with the comment that should have Justin Herbert, the Chargers quarterback, up in arms. This helps us with our quarterback. And Herbert would be now again, nobody's talking about this, nobody's saying anything about it. But Herbert would be the prime guy to stand up and say, hey, this collusion affected me because my owner was trying to work with the owner of another team to make sure he wouldn't have to give me a fully guaranteed contract. That to me there were two smoking guns. One from the league's perspective where they're reduced to writing their communications about their desire to tell the owners to pull back on guaranteed contracts from the owner's perspective, the Spanos Bidwell exchange, that just shows. It shows even though the arbitrator got it wrong, it shows that they were coordinating and necessarily colluding.

[Jon Weiner]

Florio, I just hate that you and Pablo can't get this thing off the ground. Cuz you have to keep saying some form of of even though the arbitrator got it wrong.

[Mike Florio]

I know, and he did. But that's the thing. Nobody I don't understand why now. I must have done 15 radio and podcast appearances last week that I ordinarily wouldn't have done. So some folks get it, but the people who are in position to advance the ball and think about it. There is an army of reporters who devote their professional time to covering the NFL. And when a story like this comes along, there are ways to advance it. You get comments from players, you get comments from agents. You get different angles. You talk to an expert if need be, to tell you what this all means. How many stories do we see where there are quotes from a professor from NYU or this guy or that guy talking about what this all means? There has been no effort by anyone to push this thing forward. So the hope is by the league in the union that it dies on the vine. And I know I've been doing everything I can to keep it alive and I'm glad you're still talking about it. Cuz a week after in the summer can be a hard reset and I'm appreciative that you didn't treat it like that. And you're still on it.

[Jon Weiner]

PFT Live airs weekdays on Peacock, NBC Sports now channel and NBC Sports Radio. Before we let you go, Name them. Who needs to chase this story down? Name them. Who needs to be the one putting the work in to chase down the last parts of this story? Go ask Herbert. Hey, how much money did this cost you? Ask Herbert's agent. Are you aware that they colluded in a way that affected your guaranteed money?

[Mike Florio]

Well, anyone and everyone who covers the NFL on a national basis, all of the insiders who specialize in telling us what's going to be announced five minutes before it does, but never finds out anything they don't want us to know, they should all be on it. They won't be. Anybody who covers the various teams that are implicated in this, anybody that covers the Cardinals, the Ravens, the Broncos, the Browns and the Chargers should be trying to push this forward with comments that would either give extra color and flavor to what was going on or push this thing forward and no one wants to bother whether it's because they don't understand the story. They don't want to understand the story. They don't want to step into a bear trap and affect their own careers. I think it's a cocktail of reasons that are causing most of the people in this business to just keep their heads low and their mouths up shut.

[Greg Cody]

Shot.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well said. Let's stop beating around the bush, though. Is Mike McDaniel on the hot seat?

[Mike Florio]

Well, he should be. It all comes down to what Steven Ross is going to do, and he's 85. I remember when Leon Hess, when he was 80, fired Pete Carroll and said, basically, you know, I don't have much time left. I'm trying to win. I don't know what Ross is going to do. But when I went through a list last week of who I think should be on the hot seat, I would say McDaniel's getting there. It's year four. We're hearing about culture change. Every year when you start having an annual conversation about culture change change, that gets you closer and closer to coaching change. And when they fired Brian Flores, who was the Bill Belichick hard ass, they overcorrected. We see that all the time. You fire a coach, you get the exact opposite. And I think they went too far the other way. The guy's too nice. He. He's too much of a player coach. And that's starting to come back to bite them. And I could see them trying to go the other way. Maybe they'll overcome again.

[Dan LeBatard]

Stop interrupting.

[Jon Weiner]

We wasted his time.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, we didn't. That's sprinklers and lie Schreiber right there. Get me back to football.

[Mike Florio]

First 15 minutes.

[Jon Weiner]

We wasted his time. That's what I'm saying. We wasted his time for 15 minutes because we threw it into the wheelhouse of hot seat. And all of a sudden, Florio's galloping like it's playoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

He put together an entire list. What's the rest of that list look like?

[Mike Florio]

Real quick.

[Chris Cody]

Say it slowly.

[Dan LeBatard]

Do it in the cadence of a sprinkler at the start of HBO's Hard Knocks.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah, I got Mike McDaniel. I got Brian Dall.

[Jon Weiner]

Yeah.

[Mike Florio]

Shane Steichen.

[Jon Weiner]

A little slower seat.

[Mike Florio]

Brian Callahan.

[Jon Weiner]

Seat.

[Billy Corben]

Romantic voice, please.

[Mike Florio]

Dave Canalis.

[Jon Weiner]

Hot seat.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm close.

[Tim Kirchen]

L. In the lights.

[Mike Florio]

Mike Tomlin. Not Tomlin. Not Tomlin. Everybody wants Tomlin to be on the hot seat except Art Rooney. They're never going to fire Mike Tomlin.

[Tim Kirchen]

Ever see you, McDermott.

[Jon Weiner]

McDermott see you later, Florio. Good seeing you.

[Mike Florio]

Thanks, guys.