The Big Suey: Billy "The Fireman" Gil

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: Billy "The Fireman" Gil
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Release Date: June 25, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz delve deep into the recent NBA Finals, team dynamics, player behaviors, and the evolving landscape of sports injuries. The lively discussion is punctuated with humor, insightful analysis, and engaging banter among the hosts and guests, making it a must-listen for sports enthusiasts.

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NBA Finals Analysis

The conversation kicks off with a retrospective on the recent NBA Finals, focusing on the Oklahoma City Thunder (OKC) and their unexpected performance. Amin Elhassan expresses his confusion and mixed feelings about OKC's journey, noting, “It wasn’t much of a surprise, but it wasn’t terribly satisfying either” ([01:36]).

Dan Le Batard counters by highlighting the unpredictability of championship runs, referencing teams like the Warriors and Miami Heat. He emphasizes the multitude of variables that influence playoff outcomes:
"There's so many variables. Because at the end of the day, there's a big difference between playing Milwaukee on Wednesday and Chicago on Friday versus facing the same team every day" ([02:12]).

Amin adds to the discussion by critiquing OKC's assist-to-turnover ratio during the finals, stating, “They have more turnovers than assists. No, that’s like...” ([03:07]). This leads to a broader analysis of how even historically dominant teams face challenges in maintaining their performance under playoff pressure.

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Team Building and NBA Trades

Shifting focus to team strategies, Amin questions whether the Celtics would make the same moves if Jayson Tatum were healthy. Dan agrees, suggesting that salary shedding would be necessary:
"I think they would have shed salary now. I think it would have looked different" ([05:28]).

The hosts delve into the complexities of the NBA's salary cap and trade mechanics, discussing how teams navigate the repeater tax and the limitations it imposes on roster improvements. Stugotz and Chris Cote provide insights into fan perceptions of trades, noting the disconnect between team strategies and fan understanding:
"Unless you're that deep into the game... why would you care about this?" ([07:04]).

A notable moment arises when Billy Gil introduces a humorous analogy:
"If you win the lottery with the repeater tax, you're a bad team." ([06:25]).

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Player Behavior and Celebrations

The discussion takes a lighter turn as the hosts examine player behavior off the court, particularly during championship celebrations. Jalen Williams becomes a focal point when he shares his experience of drinking for the first time during the parade:
"Yesterday was my first time drinking ever... I had a lot of water." ([18:49]).

This leads to a broader conversation about team dynamics and the pressures of sudden fame, with Stugotz humorously highlighting the challenges of non-drinkers in celebratory settings:
"You bring Danny out, it's like, Danny, you gonna drink today?" ([19:52]).

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Sports Injuries: Achilles vs. Tommy John

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the rise of Achilles injuries in basketball and drawing parallels to baseball's Tommy John surgery. The hosts explore the implications of specialized training from a young age, arguing that it contributes to the increased incidence of these injuries:
"It's because the bodies are bigger, they're faster, they're more explosive. This, the human body, was not meant to withstand all of that." ([32:36]).

Chris Cote elaborates on the historical context, comparing the origins of Tommy John surgery to the current state of Achilles injuries in the NBA:
"It’s like the origin of it becoming Tommy John surgery... the way we’re training our players." ([30:19]).

Dan emphasizes the need for systemic changes rather than relying solely on surgical fixes:
"Basketball doesn't have that equivalent. We've gotta address it earlier, but nobody wants to." ([32:08]).

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Closing Remarks and Humor

The episode concludes with the hosts reflecting on humorous moments, such as attempts to open champagne bottles and playful interactions among the team. Amin and Stugotz engage in lighthearted banter about the absurdity of certain situations, maintaining the show's signature blend of humor and insightful commentary.

A memorable quote encapsulates the episode's tone:
"That was a long story." ([23:37]).

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Notable Quotes

• Amin Elhassan ([01:36]): “It wasn’t much of a surprise, but it wasn’t terribly satisfying either.”
• Dan Le Batard ([02:12]): “There's so many variables. Because at the end of the day, there's a big difference between playing Milwaukee on Wednesday and Chicago on Friday versus facing the same team every day.”
• Billy Gil ([06:25]): “If you win the lottery with the repeater tax, you're a bad team.”
• Jalen Williams ([18:49]): “Yesterday was my first time drinking ever... I had a lot of water.”
• Dan Le Batard ([32:36]): “It's because the bodies are bigger, they're faster, they're more explosive. This, the human body, was not meant to withstand all of that.”
• Chris Cote ([30:19]): “It’s like the origin of it becoming Tommy John surgery... the way we’re training our players.”

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This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz offers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of current NBA topics, enriched with expert analysis and entertaining dialogues. Whether you're a dedicated fan or a casual listener, the hosts provide valuable insights that illuminate the complexities of modern sports.

Transcript

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[Dan Le Batard]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[Amin Elhassan]

Why are you listening to this show.

[Dan Le Batard]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Amin Elhassan]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've done it. And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat face and the habitual liar.

[Stugotz]

This episode is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Amin Elhassan]

Grateful to have Amin in. He was at all the finals games. I want his takes that will echo throughout the off season because I do believe it was. Even though he predicted that that's what it would be. And OKC was the best team from the start of the season till the end of the and it wasn't much of a surprise, but it wasn't terribly satisfying either, which I'm confused by my feelings there. I don't know if I'm reacting that way to youth. I don't know what I'm doing. Because it was an overwhelming regular season team that I wanted to see be overwhelming against Indiana and I never did.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. And by the way, that seems to be the case with almost every one of these teams. That's amazing, right? Think about the warriors. Their first championship. Amazing. But then that finals, they were down 2:1 in that finals. Think about the Miami Heat. Amazing, right? Amazing collection of talent. But yet even in their first championship, forget about losing to Dallas, even the first championship, the path there wasn't quite overwhelming. Right? So there's always a. There's, there's. It's never as easy as it looks. And there's so many variables. Because at the end of the day there's a big difference between I play Milwaukee on Wednesday and then Friday I go play Chicago and then Sunday I play Minnesota versus Big boy. You play me every single day and all I'm doing is devoting all my resources to learning your weaknesses and trying to solve it.

[Amin Elhassan]

I thought Indiana would have had an advantage if it had been like a 30 game series.

[Dan Le Batard]

We joked about that. Like pacers in nine after, after gates.

[Amin Elhassan]

But no, because I couldn't believe that Indiana got OKC to play four games that were the four worst games that they've played all season in terms of assist to turn stuff like where they were, they weren't. I didn't recognize them as a team. Given that I'm watching something that is historically great at turning other teams over and never turning the ball over themselves. To see them have it was four games where they had more turnovers than assists. No, that's like. I just couldn't believe it. They happened to win one of them. The one where they made three three pointers.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right. But, but then I, I would argue that this game one was the other way around where they had all the turnovers forced and they had all the assists and they lost that game and they probably shouldn't have lost that game. So washes out. But the point is like everyone, even the most indestructibles, they all have something that they don't like being done to them that if you can find it and if you have the personnel, you can impact it. Then I always talk about like when you say, oh, this team is going to beat this team in a seven game series. How many times we play that seven game series? 100 times, a thousand times. How many times would that result happen where we think the favorite would be the underdog? In some cases like 999 times out of 1,000. Right. They're going to win. Right. In other cases, it's like more like 501 times out of a thousand that they're going to win. And in every case of that the underdog winning, it's. You got to find the right combination of things. And some of them are things you can control, some of them aren't. Right. So 2016, warriors beating the Cavs. I mean Cavs beating the Warriors. Some of it is like, hey, we need to attack these certain things. Hey, Steph Curry isn't healthy. Attack that. Some of it is. And Draymond Green got suspended and Andrew Bogut and what's it called And Andre Godal got hurt during those finals. Oh, and by the way, Harrison Barnes was going to let him shoot every single time, right? And all those things need to add up. And then LeBron needs to make the best defensive play in finals history and Kyrie needs to hit one of the biggest shots in final history. And then Kevin Love has to be isoed against Steph Curry one on one and he's got to get a stop. All of those things needed to happen in order for the Cavs to beat the Warriors. There's a lot of variables. Some of them you control, some of them you don't.

[Amin Elhassan]

There are a number of things I want to get to in basketball, okay, including drunk OKC players and the story with Josh Gronke. But before we get to that, do the Celtics make all of the same.

[Dan Le Batard]

Moves if Tatum's healthy they make? I think, I absolutely think they would have shed salary now. I think it would have looked different, right? So for instance, trading for Anthony Simons, probably not what they were going to do because Anthony Simons with a healthy Tatum represents an overkill, right? Like they don't need more scoring at that point. Porzingis for George Niang, just like, here, take him. I don't think that happens, but I think some form of salary shedding happens. Because as we were talking about in the last segment, there are basketball reasons not to be in the repeater tax, right? As I said, if you're in there long enough, they take your first round pick and they move it to the end of the first round. You get the 30th pick no matter what. Even if your repeater tax only got you the 20th best pick regularly. Nope. It goes all the way to the end.

[Mike Ryan]

Is that lottery protected?

[Dan Le Batard]

Ain't no protections, buddy. Take it all the way down.

[Mike Ryan]

Imagine you win the lottery and you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Wouldn'T, you wouldn't even be in the lottery.

[Billy Gil]

If you win the lottery with the repeater tax, you're a bad team.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's the point they're trying to make it, see, so you know, like, hey, don't you dare. You can't, you can't aggregate salaries in a trade. So for instance, if I wanted to trade saw Kevin Durant got traded, right? He couldn't be, it couldn't be Kevin Dant and Caleb Martin because they're above the second apron. So they take that away. Obviously the lower mid level exceptions, your first round pick seven years out can't be traded. So, oh, hey, I'll give you my 20, 32 first. No, you can't so there are all of these things that handcuff the hell out of you out of improving your roster. Plus you got new ownership coming in.

[Amin Elhassan]

Nobody cares about this conversation.

[Stugotz]

Part of the issue. I was just back here like, whoa.

[Chris Cote]

Unless you're that deep into the game, unless you're, you're caring about every single team in the NBA and you want to know all the machinations of value and all of that, why would you care about this? You shouldn't have to know all of these things to be able to digest why a trade happens. But why? You don't understand why this player gets traded for four first round picks while this player only gets traded for one when the disparity between their play is a gulf in the other direction. Right.

[Dan Le Batard]

So I think that might be a place of curiosity for some people. Wait a second. Why did he only go for this versus that? But for the most part, if it's not my team, people don't care.

[Chris Cote]

Right.

[Mike Ryan]

The NBA I think, does a lot of unfan friendly things these days. And all of this, like everything Amin just talked about, Boston trading Chris Apps for Jingus for George Niang, it's the most unfan friendly thing I think the NBA does because fans don't understand, why would they do that? Why would they trade him for George Yang?

[Dan Le Batard]

I'll draw you a chart, man. It's. I got a team. Oh, my team's getting good. Oh, we're really good. We're competing for championship. Oh, we spend money. Oh, we're in this championship window. Maybe we win, maybe we don't. And then at some point, no matter how much we win, it's like, all right, some of this shit gotta go. And then we go all the way back down. It's a cycle, it's created. This is the parody that everyone begged for.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, this is the thing though. When you've got seven different champions in seven years and.

[Dan Le Batard]

Eight.

[Amin Elhassan]

Eight now, right. Excuse me. And this last one was not surprising at all if you're watching all season, but because of the way the last seven have gotten, you didn't think have gone. You didn't think that it was a foregone conclusion. There was not trust in what the OKC team did during the regular season. But what I will tell you about those finals, that was confusing to me as someone who really admired the way OKC played. You saw the Tom Haberstro numbers, right? The Pacers made 705 more passes in that series than OKC.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like when you talk about stylistically what it is that you'd root for when you've got that. The shithead, as Bob Ryan calls him. Tight Titus, saying that. That sj. That sj sga is a disgusting mvp. The reason is because of the style of play, is it not? It's. I'd prefer to watch 705 more passes than what okc was doing.

[Dan Le Batard]

You got real close to calling him Sarah Jessica Parker.

[Tony]

Green Actors Guild. Yeah.

[Stugotz]

It is seven straight, not eight.

[Tony]

Yeah. Horseshoes and hand grenades.

[Stugotz]

Don't do this.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'll do it.

[Stugotz]

I'm looking at Wikipedia.

[Amin Elhassan]

I thought it was seven going into this season.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'll do it for you. Okay, let's watch 2018. Warriors, 2019.

[Stugotz]

They won again in 22.

[Mike Ryan]

Watch, watch. When you realize, like, not competitive.

[Tony]

Yeah. He's saying back to back.

[Amin Elhassan]

He's saying we've had eight different champions the last eight years. We didn't have any back to back.

[Stugotz]

I think it's seven, no diamonds.

[Tony]

You guys are saying.

[Mike Ryan]

I've never heard anyone make that point.

[Dan Le Batard]

You just made that. There hasn't been a repeat champion in eight years.

[Tony]

To semantics.

[Chris Cote]

Right?

[Mike Ryan]

No, yeah, you're right about that, but I've never heard anyone make that point.

[Chris Cote]

The repeater tax.

[Dan Le Batard]

There you go. I'm first.

[Billy Gil]

Oddball.

[Tony]

Wait. Repeater taxes. You get taxed if you win back to back championships.

[Amin Elhassan]

The thing that I see happening with our show that is delightful and it happens more on Wednesday than any other day, is that when someone tips over the garbage can and the fire leaks out, Billy jumps out from the shrubs, like, just trying to call me the fireman. They're really excited to be like, let's argue about whether it's seven or eight.

[Tony]

No, I'm helping out. I'm actually trying to put an end to that.

[Stugotz]

Semantics.

[Tony]

I'm saying it's just a semantics thing. You're both right. No, it is semantics.

[Amin Elhassan]

He's.

[Tony]

Look, he's right in that it was eight different teams. You guys are right that it was seven different franchises. This is a semantics argument. You both are right. No repeats in there.

[Dan Le Batard]

Semantics. Semantics. Whether he's right or not, but he's right. That's semantics.

[Tony]

Thank you. That's why I invited you in today. And I said he's got to be here, man. Big day for the Association. No one covers the league like a mean.

[Dan Le Batard]

See you at the Watch along later.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Wait a sec. That's a baseball one. Sorry.

[Tony]

What time is the draft? At it like eight?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, right around the same time.

[Stugotz]

Really?

[Tony]

Six. That's early for a draft. What's the perfect time because eight is too late and six is too early. I guess it's seven.

[Stugotz]

There you go.

[Amin Elhassan]

There you go. Way to go, Billy. You did it by yourself. It's semantics.

[Tony]

Just closing loops. Today, that's what.

[Amin Elhassan]

Today, that's what you are, closing loops. Everyone knows you as a loop closer.

[Tony]

Chris knows his godparents now.

[Amin Elhassan]

Speaking of closing loops, let's close that later, shall we?

[Stugotz]

Okay.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay.

[Amin Elhassan]

Luke Fiasco, I want to ask Amin, Jordan Poole was also traded yesterday. And I'm wondering if a very highly paid, successful, champion basketball player is going to be associated with only one thing that doesn't have much of anything to do with basketball the rest of his career. When I say that name in a trade, in a transaction, do you guys think first of anything else other than punched in the face by Draymond Green? Is that what he's going to. No matter what his career is? Is that what's going to be on. On the Jordan pool resume at the end? And was never the same after that. Punched in the face by Draymond Green and then was never regarded the same after that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Some would say he was never the same before that either. He had. He had, like, a good series in the playoffs, a couple of good games. They rewarded him. But, I mean, I was not really enamored with Jordan Poole's game before they won the title, let alone before the punch. And so to me, it's just like, yeah, this is kind of who he's always been. Because I remember getting arguments with warriors, people like, no, you got to see. And da, da, da. I'm like, I'm telling you, he looks like someone who doesn't understand the, like, the value of what they're doing there. It's like, oh, yeah, so we just get around and shoot three? Well, no, not exactly. It's like, no, no, no, I get it. We should run. We run around and shoot threes. I'm like, no, no, there's more to it than that. No, I got it, I got it, I got it. And he played that way, and then he got punched in the face, and then he played that way but didn't play as well. And then he got traded. And then rather than go to Washington and say, okay, reinvention time. This is my team. I'm going to show everyone that I am serious. I'm not a joke, whatever. He treated like an absolute joke. And I'm going to tell you why, Dan. When you look at what Washington did, right, what they've done basically since the trade deadline, where everyone's like, what are the Wizards doing? They have CJ McCollum. They have Marcus Smart. They have Khris Middleton. This makes no sense. They did that because what they had was a locker room of young people looking up to people who aren't good examples of how to be a pro. Kyle Kuzma and Jordan Poole, they did not behave in a way that's like, that's what I want my young people learning.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm not kidding you when I tell you the Washington Wizards this year, before they traded for Khris Middleton as a basketball team, when they played, I watched a couple of their games, and it offended me the way that they were playing basketball.

[Mike Ryan]

What was the moment he realized this.

[Amin Elhassan]

Year it was Paul and Kuzma. They're being so sloppy with the basketball. Like, they don't care about the basketball at all.

[Chris Cote]

Like, it's just like, Valerie, can you believe this?

[Amin Elhassan]

Valerie? I'm offended. Am I wrong, though? I mean, like, when I think of two teams in basketball this year that offended me, it was the Wizards in Charlotte. On occasion, the way that they would use ball.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, you think the way they use lamelo ball or the way they use the ball? Both, I think, because one of those is a lot more offensive.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let's put up Chet Holmgren here and the sound of him slurring his way through the speech. How did you guys feel about yesterday's parade here at okc?

[Dan Le Batard]

It started with Clay, Sam, and Mark for believing in me enough to bring me here in the first place. Because without them, I'm never even here. All right, let me lock in.

[Billy Gil]

We.

[Dan Le Batard]

You want? We want.

[Chris Cote]

Should we put you on the mic right now?

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, it's our show. Somebody misspeaks and everyone else pounces.

[Mike Ryan]

Was anyone else worried that Chet was going to tip over while holding that trophy?

[Tony]

Not for Chet. For the trophy. Like, they looked like they were trying to get that trophy away from. To not dent it or anything.

[Amin Elhassan]

Put it on the poll at Lebitard show. Were you worried that the trophy would tip over, Chet?

[Stugotz]

So we had Chet seeming a little drunk on stage, which is fair. And then we had SGA on Good morning America. And I don't think it's drunk he's being accused of, but I think it might be a little stoned.

[Dan Le Batard]

Jay Gilous Alexander, give it up all for sga. Getting up and joining us this morning.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's how you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, my goodness. How does NBA champion have that? Have a good ring to you, sga. Yeah, it's everything I imagined it to be the opportunity has been amazing, and I'm just. I'm happy and I'm blessed to be.

[Jalen Williams]

A part of it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay. Have you been to sleep, Jay? Have you been a little sleepy? Did you get any rest since last night? I got some rest. Not as much as I'd like, but, hey, you only live once.

[Tony]

Was winning a championship a burden to the Thunder? And, like, overall, my city, like, they didn't celebrate when they won. They rushed the parade, like, a day and a half after they, like, the quickest parade ever. I don't know how they. They must have been planning to win this for. I mean, they wrapped the buses, like, three days early, which is a ridiculous decision. But then you're on Good Morning America. You sound upset to be there because it's too early. Like, did we inconvenience them by making them NBA champions here?

[Dan Le Batard]

To be fair, man, Good Morning America's on very early, and Oklahoma's an hour back, and he didn't go to sleep the night before he went out. He had a good time, man. You wake him up and then you put makeup on him and say, you got to answer these questions. That's not a great deal. Come on, guys.

[Mike Ryan]

He's not stoned. Like, he's got. He's got those tired, dry, heavy eyelids from not sleeping and.

[Dan Le Batard]

And a lot of alcohol consumption. The night seems like a very reckless.

[Tony]

Thing to accuse him of. To be. How dare you, Chris on Good Morning America. I have a question for you guys that I had never considered until yesterday, which was the buses that they ride around town with, that they wrap with, like, the championship, 20, 25 NBA champions or whatever, Right? I had never considered what happened to those buses after the parade until Monday when I came in and saw one of the Florida Panthers championship buses just doing its regular job of hop on, hop off, driving around. And I just see it with, like, Panthers, NBA, NHL champions driving around right in front of the building.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm like, Stanley cup champion.

[Tony]

Yeah, there you go.

[Dan Le Batard]

They didn't unwrap it?

[Tony]

No, it was still wrapped. And then I'm wondering, well, when do you decide to take that off? Like, when you sell an advertisement? Like, I would keep that on forever if I could. Right?

[Stugotz]

I saw another one that was completely white. So they had taken off of one. But then I saw another red one that looked like it was coming from.

[Dan Le Batard]

The parade, I'll tell you. So one of the things that I was thinking about a lot in the aftermath of game seven was before the game, pregame press conference, Rick Carlisle Started by saying, hey, I saw a video. They already had the buses raps. And you know what? That's all I can think about. And I turned to the guy next to me and I was like, yo, that's some. That's some real great shit talk. Unless they lose. Unless they lose. But then, you know, Tyrese gets hurt and all is forgotten, right? But, like, kind of. I was like, what about. What about them buses, huh?

[Amin Elhassan]

Let's. Let's play the sound here of Jalen Williams. He's the 12th highest paid player for the Thunder. I know that Amin and I think some other people had some objections to me saying that OKC has sort of rigged the system. You get the fixed costs with your draft picks, and all of a sudden you can keep players in OKC maybe longer than they'd like to be in okc. But before we get to that conversation, let's play Jalen Williams saying that he doesn't drink and he's going to start drinking now.

[Jalen Williams]

Yesterday was my first time drinking ever. Like, I never had a drink up until that point. And the beginning of the season, the guys want me to drink. That's, like, the big thing for them. I don't know why, but I told the beginning of the year, I was like, win a championship.

[Tony]

I'll.

[Jalen Williams]

I'll drink. I'll do whatever you guys want. I'll drink champagne. We could do shots. So we kept getting closer during the season, and I was like, I'm going to have to drink, so drink a little bit. I had a couple shots. Champagne, had beer. It was all disgusting. I'm gonna stick to Shirley Temples. I had a lot of those yesterday and a lot of water.

[Billy Gil]

Okay, so you've never drink it before. You think champagne is disgusting. You think all shots are disgusting, so you'll probably. Are you never gonna do it again?

[Jalen Williams]

I'm retired. I can't speak on the parade, though. I don't.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't wanna.

[Stugotz]

Okay. I don't wanna.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, I put it on the poll, please. Did we inconvenience the Thunder by making them win the championship at Lebatard Show?

[Stugotz]

There's something about when somebody doesn't drink. Everyone wants that person. Danny around here, he's not a drinker. You bring him out, it's like, danny, you gonna drink today? Come on, you want one? He's just like, no, I'm not.

[Amin Elhassan]

All right, great. Great. You guys are great. I love leaning on people who don't drink and making them drink.

[Stugotz]

That's what they did with Jalen Williams. All year they're like, are you gonna drink? When are you gonna drink? Why do people want people that don't drink to drink?

[Dan Le Batard]

He, he asked, he was asked this question post game about like, yo, your. Your upbringing? He's like, yeah, my parents were, I would call it a God fearing household. And he has this very long, thoughtful answer. And then he says, but then I had alcohol at. It was so funny, Dan. They didn't know how to open the champagne bottles. They literally sat around like, do we watch a YouTube tutorial? And Alex Crusoe had to come in and like, no, guys, this is how you.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't know how to open a champagne bottle.

[Dan Le Batard]

Really? Nope.

[Tony]

As a two time champion.

[Dan Le Batard]

Not a champion.

[Mike Ryan]

Nope, not a champion. That's not true. But I don't drink champagne. I don't know how to drink champagne bottle.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm embarrassed all the time at the number of corks and things that I ruin because I can't open any of those things.

[Dan Le Batard]

You guys. You don't know how to open a champagne, man.

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean, I can't.

[Tony]

You need a sword.

[Mike Ryan]

I want someone to pour it for me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Pour it?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, whatever.

[Dan Le Batard]

You don't pour shampoo. You spray that thing. You let everybody know that a real champ would know.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

The Dan Lebatard show with Stugots is sponsored by Better Help. So we mess around a lot on this show. Look, I know that, but let me be serious for a second. Men's mental health is a big deal. And honestly, for a long time I thought you have to tough everything out. Like I'm supposed to be the strong one, right? No cracks, no help, just keep going. No, that's not real life. Everyone, me, you, all of us need support sometimes. You don't have to hit rock bottom to talk to someone. Therapy helps with stress, relationships, even just sorting through the day to day stuff. It can teach you boundaries, healthy coping tools. It just helps you be your best self. Betterhelp makes it super convenient. You can do sessions from home, work, wherever. And if your therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time with no weirdness. With over 35,000 therapists, they've helped more than 5 million people already. And their app has a 4.9 rating out of 5 from over 1/8 million reviews. Guys, that is a wild percentage. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out. With BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com DLB that's BetterHelp H-E-L-P.com DLB the Dan Lebatar show.

[Billy Gil]

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[Stugotz]

Hell yeah.

[Billy Gil]

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[Zyn Advertiser]

What does Zyn give you? Not just smoke free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom. Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards. With Zinn Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech outdoor gear and gift cards to your favorite retailers. Find your Zen and keep finding rewards that fit your [e-mail] rewards warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard.

[Mike Ryan]

That was a long story.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, that's the only kind he tells.

[Tony]

It's a short one for me. I tried to speed it up for you guys.

[Chris Cote]

You forgot about the league's cup stugats.

[Amin Elhassan]

La Carreta is a place where the best of the celebrations has to be the 97 Marlin celebration. Because it was Levon.

[Tony]

Well, when Fidel died the first time. This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean, you're so busy yelling, you didn't hear Billy say that he would.

[Dan Le Batard]

Open it with a sword.

[Tony]

That's a trick that people do. A party trick. And then you don't need to figure out how to do it, you just go. You go right across the. The edge of it. Go.

[Amin Elhassan]

Can you guys get me a champagne bottle for Zaz to try and open here at some point?

[Dan Le Batard]

There's a lot of.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let's find. Certainly we would have champagne here somewhere. Let's get to this car.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm feeling pretty confident today. I'll do it.

[Dan Le Batard]

There, we got the sword.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let's get to this cronky sound. What did you guys make of this? The Denver Nuggets owner saying this out of nowhere.

[Josh Giddy]

For us as an organization, going into that second apron is not necessarily something that we're scared of. I think that there are rules around it that we needed to be very careful of with our injury history. The wrong person gets injured and very quickly, you're into a scenario where that I never want to have to contemplate. And that's trade number 15. And so, you know, we're very conscious of that pushing forward.

[Dan Le Batard]

Dan, it would be like, no.

[Amin Elhassan]

Who was talking about that? Nobody but you, sir. There was nobody talking.

[Tony]

I would never want to contemplate this. But let me bring this up.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let me be the only one who's.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thought of it like something so out of the ordinary. Like, it would be like asking Dan about his diet and say, you know what? I would hate to eat the wrong thing and. And then I have to divorce Valerie. Like, wait, what do you think there's.

[Mike Ryan]

A single person before that press conference that's attending? It's like, I think. I think he mention training Yokich.

[Amin Elhassan]

I think if you're the PR person, you have to tell him, look, there's only one thing we're not going to mention today.

[Billy Gil]

15.

[Chris Cote]

The only reason that doesn't get warned is because of the fact that no one would ever think it could even come to his mind very quickly.

[Josh Giddy]

You're into a scenario where that I never want to have to contemplate. And that's trade number 15.

[Dan Le Batard]

You just contemplated.

[Mike Ryan]

Sounds like he has contemplated.

[Dan Le Batard]

Contemplated it.

[Amin Elhassan]

No one was contemplating it, so I never have to.

[Mike Ryan]

He's just spitballing in the middle of the press conference.

[Josh Giddy]

To be fair, nobody where that I never want to have to contemplate. And that's trading number 15.

[Billy Gil]

Nobody thought about trading 77 to contemplate it though.

[Amin Elhassan]

Again, though. No one spoke it before doing it though, either.

[Stugotz]

If in. In actually, Tony brings up a point.

[Dan Le Batard]

If.

[Stugotz]

If the Mavericks had said that something similar, the news would have just pounced on it. And then you don't make the trade. So maybe now they see this reaction.

[Dan Le Batard]

To this sound like a weather balloon.

[Stugotz]

Where he was maybe going to think about doing the trade.

[Mike Ryan]

Now it's more dangerous if the general manager has never mentioned it.

[Stugotz]

Put the feeler out there.

[Tony]

I think, that receiving calls like, so. Yeah, I know you'd hate to contemplate this, but what. What is this gonna take? Because, like, obviously he will be available at some point in time, or you would not have said that, right?

[Amin Elhassan]

He's not going to be available.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hold on.

[Tony]

Why would you say that unless it's a possibility?

[Stugotz]

If.

[Tony]

If you're, like, running an NBA team and you don't make a call that day to be like, hey, so we kind of heard Hold. Heard all Cronk say this crazy thing. How crazy is it? Like, what is it going to take to make that crazy situation happen? You wouldn't be doing your job if you didn't check in, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

Billy, what can I interest you with? Tyler Herro and Bam Adebayo for Jokic.

[Tony]

Dude, but this team is never going to trade Tyler for anything.

[Stugotz]

Not putting him in Hightower Highsmith.

[Dan Le Batard]

You stop it.

[Amin Elhassan]

Billy, did I hear a zip it up from you at Cronky this morning?

[Tony]

Yeah. I mean, you should, right? Tell him, zip it up. Like, why are you even out there talking? Especially if that's what you're going to be doing. Zip it up. He can't be saying that. Can he be saying that?

[Amin Elhassan]

It's the one thing he can't say.

[Dan Le Batard]

He can say anything. He's the owner.

[Tony]

I know, but he, like, why is he even talking?

[Dan Le Batard]

Because it was a press conference introducing the new front office, which Dan is going to get kicked out of this. Dan. Their new front office is Ben Tenzer and John Wallace. Ben Tenzer, who I worked with at summer league in 2012. John Wallace, who I scouted when he was at Georgetown.

[Tony]

Did you get a kick out of that?

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, I want to examine. I want to examine that saying first. Second.

[Tony]

Jeremy, look up the origins.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's not how you get a kick out of it. That's not how you get a kick.

[Stugotz]

What is getting a kick?

[Amin Elhassan]

What is getting a kick out of something? Like what? I. I.

[Tony]

So let me see that kick again.

[Stugotz]

This is what?

[Amin Elhassan]

Ready? It's clicking the heels.

[Tony]

No.

[Amin Elhassan]

Is what is getting a kick out of it? Is it when you whip a horse, you get a kick out of it? Like what? So, no, to answer your question, I didn't get a kick out of it. No, you don't.

[Dan Le Batard]

You don't think it's weird that. That people that, like, I worked with or even worse, that I scouted, have now ascended to the very heights of running an organization.

[Tony]

It's sad, honestly, the way you phrase it. It kind of made it sad because you're here.

[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Josh Giddy]

Nothing That I never want to have to contemplate.

[Amin Elhassan]

Tony's telling everybody that he thinks we should have all seen the Halliburton injury coming.

[Billy Gil]

I mean, it just feels so obvious, right? Like, we see what happens with kd calf strain Achilles. We see what happens with Jayson Tatum. We see what happens with Damian Lillard. Now we see what happens with Halleck.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, the calf strain isn't something you should be playing through.

[Stugotz]

But it's a game seven.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's a game seven. We heard you have to play.

[Stugotz]

Everyone plays game seven. This is what I live for. This is what I live for.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm trying to figure out.

[Stugotz]

I'm Mike Ryan.

[Dan Le Batard]

The other day.

[Tony]

You're Mike Ryan.

[Stugotz]

I've worked my whole life.

[Chris Cote]

What's happening?

[Stugotz]

I've worked my whole life.

[Dan Le Batard]

Game seven.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm insulted for Mike Ryan.

[Stugotz]

What's game?

[Amin Elhassan]

I like that Mike grind. I like the limited face one who looks like Bert Kreischer.

[Dan Le Batard]

I like all your life you live for this. It's what you've lived.

[Stugotz]

Like, where you live for game seven play.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's. It's Mike and Zaz, though.

[Billy Gil]

That's what we were saying back here.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's the greatest of the characters, Mike, as.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm offended by that.

[Amin Elhassan]

Not as offended as I was by the wizard before they traded for Middleton.

[Billy Gil]

It just feels like more and more NBA guys are dealing with these Achilles injuries. And Jeremy had brought up a good point, like, is that going to turn into the Tommy Johnson of the mlb? Where now Achilles is the one thing that used to be a career killer, and now guys are going through it like, if it's almost like a meniscus repair, it's like, all right, we're gonna get scoped with this guy.

[Stugotz]

Let's rename this who's the doctor. Who's the doctor that does these main surgeries? Is there one guy who does.

[Tony]

The doctor was a doctor Achilles.

[Stugotz]

Let's call it The Hanes.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, Dr. Haynes.

[Stugotz]

That's his first name. We need to rename this injury.

[Chris Cote]

Who got the first Achilles injury? That's really the big one.

[Dan Le Batard]

Achilles. Achilles.

[Chris Cote]

Well, in the NBA, obviously, it's Achilles. Achilles. But is it Kevin Durant? That's the first memorable one.

[Billy Gil]

So, you know, Wes Matthews had one.

[Dan Le Batard]

Isaiah Thomas, Dominique Wilkins. A lot of people. So hold On. But I want to ask because. Because you're saying it's like Tommy John. The difference is guys get Tommy John, they come back and they're. They're fine. Other than Kevin. Better, honestly, other than Kevin Durant who's come back from the Achilles and was just fine.

[Chris Cote]

But it used to be a death sentence in baseball, too.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, still a death sentence is what I'm saying.

[Chris Cote]

So what I'm saying is, is this is the origin of it becoming Tommy John surgery. Because what started happening when you saw this ascension of guys getting Tommy John surgery, it was because of essentially, what is AAU baseball. Because you had kids pitching and only pitching from a young age. You had guys throwing curveballs earlier at a younger age, specialized training for the specific muscle groups that only have to do with baseball, not playing all season, all year long in different sports and training different muscle groups. And so you saw more wear and tear at a younger age on the ucl. Now, in basketball, we're going through this wave here where we've talked about it. Guys like Jason Tatum who have gone through AAU basketball and trained from a super young age on a specific group of muscles, and now you're seeing the wear and tear that comes from that. So you wonder if the specialized training and load management, in the same way innings management is only hurt the rate at which Tommy John has increased. I think that we're seeing sort of a similar pattern to what we saw at the beginning of this escalation of Tommy John surgery.

[Tony]

But you can't predict that Achilles injuries are going to then become like Tommy John, where you now become back, stronger.

[Chris Cote]

That's not necessarily what I'm saying. I'm saying more. I'm worried that this is the new, hey, this is about to spike over 10 years because of the way we're training our players.

[Dan Le Batard]

So we did a whole episode of Basketball Illuminati that's out today about this, right? About this concept that because people are saying they need to shorten the season and it's like it's not the number of games that did this. Thanasis ruptured his Achilles. You think it's because he was playing too many basketball games? No, it's because of training from a very young age, specialized training over and over again. And then the other part that you didn't leave into the Tommy John conversation is it's an unnatural movement, right?

[Chris Cote]

It is just like throwing a baseball.

[Dan Le Batard]

The elbow was not meant to have that amount of. Of force and torque on it over and over and over. Again. And because people are bigger and stronger and throw harder, the pressures are even higher. Same thing with this Achilles. It's because the bodies are bigger, they're faster, they're more explosive. This, the human body, was not meant to withstand all of that. And that's what's happening for sure. The one thing I was thinking about is, well, Tommy John, how'd they fix it? Well, they found this surgery. That's amazing. So they didn't actually, like, fix any of the other symptoms of, like, hey, let's have the kids train less. Hey, let's have the kids be less specialized. No, no, no. We'll just have a surgery and then it'll be fine.

[Chris Cote]

We'll get it at 16.

[Amin Elhassan]

Here's the thing that you're not understanding, though, about the differences between the two things because you're not necessarily a baseball fan. Yes, Both of the things are things. The pitching motion more than anything. It's not meant to be done like that by human beings. But now we've gotten to the point in base, the big arm wants to have that surgery early and then resume his career, whereas the Achilles there aren't. I fear that Halliburton will never be the same in terms of quickness again. It's not the death sentence. It used to be. People come back faster than they did. But when the specifics of the surgery are one makes it better and one gets you back faster, but your lateral speed and quickness is not going to be the same. And he kind of needs it the way that he plays.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, that was my point. My point is baseball didn't solve the problem by addressing the symptoms earlier on that led to this. They just found a surgical procedure like, oh, good as new. And so basketball doesn't have that equivalent. We've gotta address it earlier, but nobody wants to. I got a kid who's 14 playing AAU, and like, you can't afford to be like, okay, now you're gonna go play volleyball. Because all these kids are working year round and they got trainers and they gotand they're AAU and then high school and then all these club teams that they're playing for, they are constantly working and getting better. You get left behind in the dust very easily.

[Billy Gil]

So is it a bigger product of, like, can we diversify kids game more, or is that just dead in the.

[Dan Le Batard]

Water, like, can't do that anymore? Like. Like you're going to get to a point where your kid is playing basketball, Tony, and you're going to have a decision to make. It's like, okay, I'm going to put my daughter in volleyball now or softball or whatever you know, as the season switch and so that we're not getting.

[Billy Gil]

That weight active, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

But she's still staying active. But what's gonna happen is when she comes back to basketball, all these other kids have been doing basketball the whole time. And it's like you're blown away by the skill level. I mean, it's crazy. I remember scouting and you go months on the road watching college basketball and at most you'd see one or two shooters per team. And now my kid, 14 years old, every team we played against had at least three or four knock down deadly shooters. I'm talking about in game. If I have a window that's open this big, boom, I'm knocking it down. I'm like, holy shit. I remember you used to go to the park and like all day long. He's not a shooter. All right, he made a couple. Now close out. Now you got to stay home on everybody all the time. And I asked my buddy who trains kids and I said, how the hell did they get this good? And I said, they're all going to gyms and they got the gun and they're shooting a thousand shots a day on the gun gun.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like, well, Steph, Steph made it all possible. Like, it doesn't make sense that he's on a magic carpet out there playing a different sport than anyone else and making it accessible to young people. Because now everyone wants to play that way and we're living in the renaissance of whatever that age is going to be in basketball. You're already not liking how many threes they're taking in games. And smaller dudes are all going to do what Trey Young does. Like, because that's the only way for them to get into the league is can I make it from 40ft? And. And the evolution of those things is what makes a baseball now be thrown 103 miles an hour and makes it now that it's not one or two guys. You shooting from the logo. Oh, there's Halliburton. He can do it too.

[Dan Le Batard]

They're all doing it. And baseball, by the way, another evolution in baseball is I don't need a guy who pitches seven innings anymore, right? We're just going to burn you out real quick. Couple innings and then we're coming in.

[Chris Cote]

So well, they're discarded.

[Dan Le Batard]

Maybe like B. That's another evolution in basketball.

[Amin Elhassan]

Desmond Bain's going to be a dinosaur in nine years. Desmond Bain. They're going to be 40 dudes in the league that can do what? Because if you're exploiting the market inefficiency of Orlando and Houston are only bad because they're the ones that can't make the shots from three.

[Chris Cote]

By the way, if we're talking about like the, the way that it, it worked in baseball, now, there's no salary cap there, right? But the best teams in baseball, even the Dodgers, have several positions at which they're platooning. Their depth is really their greatest strength. What did we just see in the NBA Finals? Having an extreme amount of depth was more important because what if you can disperse minutes and have a whole bunch of guys who are only playing 20 to 25 minutes who you actually genuinely trust? Well, you have fresher bodies. And that's essentially the same concept as, hey, your starting pitcher is only going to go two times through the order, and then we're going to mix and match with all these relievers who are fresher with the perfect matchup against the perfect guy. It, it's sort of the same concept. And I know for baseball, it's been a worse result for a lot of people.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know what, I'm curious. I want to ask you guys a bas baseball question. What's the baseball equivalent of this? Because in basketball, somehow people saw that and said, it's the shoes. And I'm like, what are you talking about? You think high tops were gonna save that tendon? What are you, an idiot or whatever? So what's the baseball equivalent where they blamed it on something that had sticky stuff?

[Chris Cote]

The sticky stuff really started blaming Tommy John on sticky stuff in the last like five years. And when it got outlawed, clearly part of the sort of leak to some of the bigger reporters and writers was like, talk about how the sticky stuff is a big part of what's happening with Tommy John when really it's the fact that guys are chasing, throwing 105 miles an hour. It doesn't matter if they have the sticky stuff or not.

[Amin Elhassan]

The sticky stuff.

[Chris Cote]

That's what they refer to it as.

[Stugotz]

It's exactly what you think it is.

[Amin Elhassan]

The sticky stuff.

[Stugotz]

Like tar, rosin.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, rosin tar spray, little pine tar under one umbrella. The sticky stuff.

[Amin Elhassan]

Sticky stuff. Can you guys just get me the video real quick and just put it in the picture? In picture of Joe Niekro when they caught him on the mound scuffing a baseball and the umpires gathered around him and he took the n nail file out of his back pocket and tried to throw it past the umpires. Can you guys just get that video? What are you laughing about there, Billy?

[Tony]

Just a means face. As soon as you said his name.

[Dan Le Batard]

Whose name?

[Amin Elhassan]

Joe.

[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Tony]

Joe.

[Amin Elhassan]

So he's on the mound, okay? And the umpires are surrounding this Negro, and he's clearly cheating. And he's got a nail file in his back pocket. And he tries to throw it past the umpires behind them.

[Dan Le Batard]

What are you talking about? The process was good.

[Chris Cote]

Exactly.

[Dan Le Batard]

Result. Not good. Brilliant.

[Billy Gil]

So what do you mean me?

[Stugotz]

Yeah, we've all been there.

[Dan Le Batard]

What? Now question. Did that happen before or after the Naked Gun? You remember the Naked Gun? He goes up to the guy. Cause he's searching for the gun. And, like, the pictures got, like, sandpaper and rosin and all this stuff on him.

[Amin Elhassan]

I think that. I think Naked Gun was first. I was wondering if you guys were interested. Did you like the trailer to Naked Gun with Liam Neeson?

[Dan Le Batard]

Where.

[Amin Elhassan]

Where he's actually a badass, but he's also doing the I eat too much fart jokes. Like, he's just. He's doing Frank Drevin, but he's also the guy from Taken, which is a funny evolution of Naked Gun.

[Dan Le Batard]

So this is the amazing thing. Leslie Nielsen, a lot of people don't know this. Originally a dramatic actor, right? And so when he did Airplane, like, part of the reason why that role hit so hard. Cause everyone was looking at him like this very serious guy doing these dumb jokes, like, Shirley, you can't be serious. I am serious. And don't call me.

[Billy Gil]

Don't call me Shirley.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right? So by the time he does Naked Gun now, he's effectively changed his whole career to, I'm a comedic actor. I'm really rooting for. Wow, look at that. Well done.

[Billy Gil]

Like, you dropped that. That wasn't me.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's like, why do you have a nail file?

[Amin Elhassan]

He blamed it on Palermo. He blamed it on Frank. Look at Frank Palermo.

[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Amin Elhassan]

That?

[Dan Le Batard]

Look at the ump's hand on his face. He was like, are we really doing this? This? Look at him. Wait, wait.

[Tony]

It almost worked.

[Dan Le Batard]

Look.

[Tony]

One guy sees it. Only one.

[Amin Elhassan]

One guy only. There it is.

[Tony]

Only one. It almost worked.

[Billy Gil]

And he wants to help him.

[Tony]

Pick him up.

[Billy Gil]

Is this yours?

[Amin Elhassan]

He's got the inside out, back pockets like me. I wouldn't cheat.

[Stugotz]

He does almost go to pick it up. Like, oh, umpy drop something. Yeah, I'll help you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, look, there it is. The point.

[Chris Cote]

I've mentioned it before on the show, but, guys, I don't really get enough sleep generally. And so when I do get sleep. I make sure I'm getting great sleep. And do you ever like me, wake up tired and think maybe it's not me, maybe it's the bed? Yeah, it probably is the bed. That's why there's the Sleep Number Smart Bed the bed that learns you. It adjusts to your movements, supports your body and lets you pick the firmness on each side. No arguments, no flipping a coin. No sleeping on the edge of the bed like you lost a challenge on survivor. Sleep number's been working with the NFL since 2018. 80% of NFL players sleep on one of these beds. If it's good enough for a 300 pound lineman trying to recover from Sunday, it's probably good enough for your weird shoulder cramp from scrolling in bed for three hours. Why choose a Sleep number? Smart Bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. The only bed that lets you make each side firmer or softer whenever you like your Sleep Number setting and now it's the Sleep Number 4th of July save over $600 on the SleepNumber P5 King Smart Bed the lowest price of the season. Limited time. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.

[Zyn Advertiser]

What does Zynn give you? Not just smoke free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom. Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards. With Zinn Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech, outdoor gear and gift cards to your favorite retailers. Find your Zen and keep finding rewards that fit your [e-mail] rewards warning this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.