The Big Suey: Dick Samson

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz Episode: The Big Suey: Dick Samson
Release Date: July 22, 2025

Hosted by Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, this episode delves deep into the intricacies of sports management, union dynamics, personal controversies, and the evolving landscape of sports media.

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1. The Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones: Power Dynamics and Contract Structures

[01:07 - 06:44]

The episode kicks off with a heated discussion surrounding Jerry Jones, the iconic owner of the Dallas Cowboys. David Sampson brings up the looming union issues, hinting at escalating troubles within the organization.

• David Sampson: "Don Van Natta is going to join us here in the next couple of days because there's yet more union stuff coming out and it's worse and worse." [01:07]

The conversation pivots to Jerry Jones' role in the Cowboys' management structure, particularly his decision to label himself as the General Manager (GM).

• Dan Le Batard: "I give him all the credit in the world for naming himself GM. The Cowboys just have no chance of winning. It's not with him as GM. It's with him, his owner." [03:11]

David challenges Dan on his stance, suggesting that Dan appears to side with ownership interests over player unions.

• David Sampson: "You're always pro-ownership." [05:25]

Dan clarifies his position, emphasizing a balanced view that acknowledges both the strengths and flaws of ownership decisions.

• Dan Le Batard: "I am both. I talk when players are doing something right or the union is. I will absolutely give them credit for doing that." [05:27]

The duo delves into the complexities of contract guarantees in football, debating the merits and pitfalls of fully guaranteed deals.

• Dan Le Batard: "It's about what's guaranteed. It's signing, and that number continues to go up." [06:44]

2. Dee Gordon's Steroid Suspension: Personal Reflections and Controversies

[07:05 - 20:22]

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the controversial suspension of Dee Gordon for steroid use. The hosts introduce a recorded segment from Gordon, where he discusses his suspension candidly.

• Dee Gordon (Recorded): "I got suspended in 16 for steroids." [08:28]

Dan shares a personal anecdote, recounting the moment he learned about Gordon's suspension and the subsequent fallout within the franchise.

• Dan Le Batard: "It's a crushing, crushing moment for our franchise." [13:21]

David Sampson challenges the narrative, questioning the validity of Gordon's claims and the transparency of the league's testing processes.

• David Sampson: "He is lying." [20:14]

The discussion intensifies as Dan defends Gordon's integrity, despite acknowledging the severity of the situation.

• Dan Le Batard: "I love Dee, but that was a crushing, crushing moment for our franchise." [19:44]

3. Truth vs. Personal Truth: Navigating Controversial Narratives

[20:22 - 36:33]

The conversation shifts to the broader theme of truth in sports controversies. David criticizes the concept of "personal truth," especially in contexts where factual inaccuracies have significant repercussions.

• David Sampson: "You can’t perpetuate this where people are entitled to their own facts. You know the truth. That is a universal truth." [20:12]

Dan responds by highlighting the nuances of personal experiences and the complexities of defending friends and colleagues in the public eye.

• Dan Le Batard: "People delude themselves every day." [20:17]

The debate underscores the tension between personal narratives and objective truths, especially in high-stakes environments like professional sports.

4. Top Five Biggest Shocks in David Sampson's Marlins Career

[24:30 - 29:03]

David Sampson shares a nostalgic segment recounting the most shocking moments of his tenure with the Miami Marlins, excluding the previously discussed steroid scandal.

1. Giancarlo Stanton's Emotional Tweet:

   • Dan Le Batard: "When Giancarlo Stanton tweeted after the 2012 trade how angry he was, I was shocked that he would do that." [24:30]

2. Cliff Floyd's Trade Announcement:

   • Dan Le Batard: "When Cliff Floyd claimed that we didn't tell him he was traded." [24:40]

3. San Diego Padres' Medical Records Controversy:

   • Dan Le Batard: "We discovered that the San Diego Padres had two sets of medical records." [24:57]

David elaborates on each incident, providing insights into the challenges faced during his management years and the impact of these events on team dynamics.

5. The Decline of Late-Night Shows and Media Mergers

[34:03 - 38:29]

Shifting focus to the media landscape, the hosts discuss the recent upheavals in late-night television, particularly the alleged firing of Stephen Colbert amidst corporate mergers.

• David Sampson: "I did not get fired by Disney. The times changed, the company changed, the country changed. We did not change." [35:59]

Dan critiques the rationale behind the decision, suggesting it stems from financial inefficiencies rather than content controversies.

• Dan Le Batard: "The decision to make cuts in the middle of this merger negotiation has been going on for over a year." [34:03]

Chris and Pablo join in, debating whether financial losses were the sole reason or if ideological stances played a role in the network's decisions.

• Chris Coughlan: "You are directly impacting your $8 billion merger." [37:01]

The discussion highlights the fragility of media careers amidst corporate consolidations and the diminishing value of traditional late-night formats.

6. Humorous Wrap-Up: Funeral Attendance Polls

[39:40 - 42:14]

In a lighter segment, the hosts engage in a humorous poll about attending funerals of various sports personalities, blending wit with inside jokes about the show's dynamics.

• Pablo Torre: "We did look that up yesterday, David. And we quickly realized there was no Triple Crown in play because Bryce Harper would have needed 31 RBI that day." [11:26]

• Dan Le Batard: "I was going to say Dick Samson. It's Dick Sampson." [25:32]

This playful exchange underscores the camaraderie among the hosts and their ability to balance serious discussions with moments of levity.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Sampson: "You're always pro-ownership." [05:25]
• Dee Gordon (Recorded): "I got suspended in 16 for steroids." [08:28]
• David Sampson: "He is lying." [20:14]
• Dan Le Batard: "People delude themselves every day." [20:17]

Conclusion:

"The Big Suey: Dick Samson" episode offers a multifaceted exploration of sports management controversies, personal tribulations within the Miami Marlins organization, and critical insights into the evolving sports and media industries. Through candid discussions, personal anecdotes, and spirited debates, Dan Le Batard and Stugotz provide listeners with an engaging and thought-provoking narrative that balances depth with entertainment.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugatz]

Warning.

[Dan LeBatard]

This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Mike Ryan]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[David Sampson]

Why are you listening to this show?

[Mike Ryan]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Mike Ryan]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[David Sampson]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Dan LeBatard]

I've done it.

[Mike Ryan]

And now here's the marching man to nowhere Fat Face and the habitual liar.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Billy Corben]

This episode of the Dan Libertall show with Stu Gatz is sponsored by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[David Sampson]

Don Van Natta is going to join us here in the next couple of days because there's yet more union stuff coming out and it's worse and worse. Like a lot of bad stuff is coming this way. It's just starting. Pablo Torre found out and now a real mess has started. We will have Don Van Natta of the Pulitzer Prize winner in the next couple of days to talk about that and Jerry Jones. But I meant to play this Jerry Jones sound a little bit earlier before we get to David Sampson of Nothing Personal. Let's play that sound for David Sampson to talk about in general, what it is that Jerry Jones is doing.

[Stugatz]

The other thing I would say is contracts are four or five years. Okay. There's a lot of water under the bridge. If you step out there and do something in the first two or three and get hit by a car. Sicily. And so there's a lot to look at over a lot of years that could make a big difference. Have you ever heard of any clubs committing to players and then they didn't pan out after they committed to them? We have.

[David Sampson]

I don't want to say when was the last time a player was hit by a car? Because it happened to Andy Dalton and Miles Garrett. But when was the last time a cowboy was hit by a car?

[Dan LeBatard]

That's not the question.

[David Sampson]

Oh, okay. What is the question? That's David Sampson from Nothing Personal. What's the question?

[Dan LeBatard]

The question is, is Jerry Jones now? And you can listen to today's Nothing personal for 20 minutes on this, and I'll give you just two that I didn't give you on nothing personal. The question is, is Jerry Jones the choice? Now, instead of Jim Ursay, who has since passed away, he was the spokesman used by Roger Goodell over the last collective bargaining, over the last labor issues. And all this talk about guaranteed contracts and fully guaranteed contracts. Are they thinking of using the octogenarian Jerry Jones to try to get the message out publicly that, hey, this whole fully guaranteed thing, it's for the birds, we shouldn't be doing it. And here's the reason why. I hope Roger Goodell isn't going that direction, but, man, it certainly seemed that way today.

[Chris Coughlan]

Dwayne Haskins Dan, that's unfortunate. For me, it does happen.

[David Sampson]

It's an odd thing for him to say that people can get hurt and in that sport or can get hurt in accidents. It was also odd to hear him say that he thought about quitting for about half a second. What did you make of that?

[Dan LeBatard]

No, he actually, what he said is he was asked about whether he would stop being gm. That's what he thought about for a fraction of a second. And I give him all the credit in the world for naming himself GM. He's one of the 32 meddling owners in football. He just has the guts to call himself the gm. The Cowboys just have no chance of winning. It's not with him as gm. It's with him, his owner. Because whether he names a GM or not, it doesn't matter. He will always act as gm. And if he stops naming himself that, then he's just diluting himself. Whereas now it's out there in the open, hey, I'm the gm. All the owners are.

[David Sampson]

Did I hear you correctly on both of these things, though? You said you give him a all the credit in the world for naming himself the GM after immediately signing with owners on you shouldn't guarantee any money to football players.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm trying to understand the through thread on those two statements. I always like it when owners are honest about their involvement instead of just saying, oh, I let the baseball people do the baseball stuff. I have nothing to do with it. It's total poppycock. Every owner is involved in these signings and in the trades and in the draft. They just are. And on the football side, you, you know, I guess they can say, oh, you know, what do I know about salary cap? It's so ridiculous. Jerry Jones just owns it. Wouldn't have been great if in the old days George Steinbrenner instead of firing, everybody would have just named himself general manager of the Yankees because that's what he was.

[David Sampson]

The through line on both of these things is that you are supporting making sure labor doesn't get guaranteed money so power can stay in power and supporting that power, saying brazenly that it should be in power, stay in power, even when it embarrasses is everyone involved. You're giving him all the credit in the world for that.

[Dan LeBatard]

I gave him the credit for naming himself the gm, but I'm not fully understanding what your point of view is at all here, Dan, because.

[David Sampson]

You'Re always pro ownership.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's not correct. That is not correct. If you listen to Nothing Personal, I am both. I talk when players are doing something right or the union is. I will absolutely give them credit for doing that. Going for guarantee. I understand. Obviously you want to be like the baseball players where you don't give money back when you stink or when you're hurt. I get it. In football, the fact is, it's not about fully guaranteed. It's such a red herring of an argument. The question is, how much is guaranteed? It's signing. And that number continues to go up. Players are getting more and more money guaranteed. Trey Hendrickson won't sign a deal because Mike Brown of the Bengals only offer him one year guaranteed. And all of his brothers, TJ Watt and Miles Garrett, yada, yada, have three years guaranteed of their contract. So they're fighting over that. It's about what's guaranteed. It's signing, and you have a deal, let's say a sponsorship deal. Is it guaranteed it's signing? Well, no, because there's all sorts of things that can happen where you don't get the money that you think you're getting. In sports, when you sign a guaranteed deal, it doesn't matter how many listeners, followers, downloads, shows, wins, losses, you. You get that money. That's just not the case in the real world.

[Chris Coughlan]

I think Zaslo led the audience to a bit of an epiphany in that Jerry Jones always ends up paying the most for these talents. And he likes to draw out these conversations so they eat up in the news stream and people are talking about the Dallas Cowboys. I think this is intentional. Now, after Zaslow shined his light on it, do you agree?

[Dan LeBatard]

I think that the deal will get done with Micah Parsons, on the other hand, he. He's got $24 million to be paid this year. He's got one year left of his contract, and I think it would be in the Owner's best interest to stop allowing players to hold out and then get away with it.

[Chris Coughlan]

That's not what I'm.

[Dan LeBatard]

Signed a deal.

[Chris Coughlan]

That's not what I'm asking. Do you think it's part intentional from Jerry Jones to. He doesn't care about paying the most money, he ends up doing it?

[Dee Gordon]

Yeah, I guess. You know, the point that I'm making is if Michael Parsons was ready to sign a deal last year, which would have clearly saved Jerry Jones money, because the price continues to go up. So stopping short of saying Jerry Jones is stupid, why does he wait like this every time?

[Dan LeBatard]

But that's the same thing as. It's the same with everything. You could go back and look at your house. You could go back and look at any asset and say, man, if I just bought it last year instead of this year, the price would have been lower. That's inflation. That's just how assets work. And so when you don't sign a player at a particular year, and yeah, the chances are, if the player performs that the price is going to go up. But you know that going in with every negotiation for everything that you do.

[Pablo Torre]

David, I don't know. Not to switch topics here, but I'm switching topics here. I don't know if you saw what was going on over the weekend. A former player of yours, D. Strange Gordon, and when he played for you was just. D. Gordon was on a podcast. Did you happen to catch this?

[D. Strange Gordon]

I got suspended in 16 for steroids. Look at me, King. It look like I twisted. Ain't no way.

[Chris Coughlan]

All right?

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm about to say ain't.

[David Sampson]

165.

[Dan LeBatard]

Ain't no way.

[D. Strange Gordon]

Let me tell y'.

[David Sampson]

All.

[D. Strange Gordon]

I ain't gonna say no name, but let me just put it like this. 2015, they told my little black ass don't win that batting championship. And I said, y' all got me up.

[Billy Corben]

Damn.

[Dan LeBatard]

So you went out there and said it.

[Billy Corben]

I'm gonna go get this little.

[David Sampson]

Little.

[Billy Corben]

This little championship trophy.

[D. Strange Gordon]

And they said, don't do. It was like a money thing for them. Nah, it was a guy. I ain't gonna say his name. He would have won triple crown if I let him win the batting title. The last day of the season, I beat him for the batting title. I went 3 for 4 with a home run. I ain't saying Kane can say it. I mean, it'll be easy.

[Billy Corben]

They didn't like that.

[D. Strange Gordon]

They called me a week before his baby.

[Chris Coughlan]

They didn't like that.

[D. Strange Gordon]

And I was like, man, I'm From Avon park, bro.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm from.

[Dan LeBatard]

You hear me?

[Billy Corben]

He said, I'm from Avon.

[David Sampson]

Part your thoughts there, David?

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, I've got. Well, let me start with one. One bit of factual problem with what just happened. I was at the game. It was the last game of the 2015 season. It was in Philadelphia. Dan Jennings was our manager. We were in the clubhouse. Me, Mike Hill, D. Gordon, and Dan Jennings. We were doing math because he was just behind Bryce Harper. They were both hitting 3. 30. I'll never forget this day for the reason that happened, after which I'll get to forgetting the fact that our GM was our manager, which was idiotic in every sense of the word, but we were doing the math. All right. If Bryce Harper pinch hits, you can't sit. You have to get a hit. If you get a hit, we could then pull you from the game. If Bryce is 0 for 2, you're 1 for 1. You win the batting title, even if he goes 2 for 4. Therefore, do you want us to see you? We went through all of it because we wanted him to win the batting title. So we were in the clubhouse doing that math. Bryce ends up 1 for 4, D goes 3 for 4. And we're celebrating the end of a terrible season. The Phillies lost 99 games that year, but we had a terrible season, too. But that said, we were super, super happy for him. But there was no Triple Crown winner. Nolan Arenado had 130 runs batted in. Bryce Harper had 99. Bryce Harper had 42 home runs, tied with Arenado. You have to get RBI, home run and average. Harper was never going to get rbi, so there was no Triple Crown to be won. And I texted D. After I heard this, because I told him, I'm going to talk about it. Nothing personal, because you can't be talking about me. I was right there saying, D, let's get this. This is great for you, for us, for everybody. And he won't tell me who it was, but it was nobody with the Marlins, that's for sure.

[Pablo Torre]

We did look that up yesterday, David. And we quickly realized there was no Triple Crown in play because Bryce Harper would have needed 31 RBI that day. And he needed a good day. He needed to jump over Matt Kemp, Anthony Rizzo, Paul Goldschmidt, and Nolan Arenado to win the RBI title. That put it on the poll.

[David Sampson]

Please, at lebatard show. Is it possible that Dee Gordon doesn't know the three categories of the Triple Crown?

[Chris Coughlan]

Does it hold water, David, for him to say, look at me when he came in that season weighing 13 pounds. And for a guy that that's. That is that small, that is actually a lot of weight gain and quite suspicious.

[Dan LeBatard]

D was a little Juan Pierre. Like when you saw D without a shirt, he was not a small guy. And this is pre steroids. So he's very strong, very good body. And so I. I would say my second biggest shock in my entire career. First being the phone call from Fish and Wildlife when Jose crashed his boat and died. The second was when I got the call from Dan Hellam. I was at lunch in Los Angeles. We were playing the Dodgers, and he said that D. Gordon was getting suspended. This was before Jose died. This is when we were going to have a great year in 2016. And I said, no, you got the wrong guy. He said, no, no, there's the appeals dropped like he's serving starting tonight. And I was at lunch with Mike Hill and PJ Loyello, and we had to go right to Chavez Ravine, right to the ballpark, to meet the team and to meet D. And I was so angry. To this day, I am angry with D over it. We've gotten through it. I found out exactly what he tested positive for. How that gets into your body. It's not a diuretic. It doesn't come in, you know, through some sort of over the counter weight loss program. It's just a straight up steroid. There's no other way to do it, and there's needles involved. And Dee and I have come to terms with it. It's in the past. I love Dee, but that was a crushing, crushing moment for our franchise. Of course, we had no idea that the franchise was going to be completely crushed. Only a couple of months later, the.

[Billy Corben]

Dan Lobtol show with Stugats is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, it's summer and you're feeling overwhelmed at work. You're not alone. 61% of people globally are dealing with higher than normal stress. That's a lot of us now. We can't all disappear to a beach and hit reset, but we can take small steps. For me, I like taking walks, soaking up the sun, and unplug for like 30 seconds. Punch a pillow. Hey, it helps. And sometimes you need a little more. That's where BetterHelp comes in. Whether it's learning boundaries, managing stress, or talking things out, therapy can help you feel more like you. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists, and they've helped over 5 million people. It's all online, super flexible, and you can switch therapists anytime as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Unwind from work with BetterHelp, all listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com DLB that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com D O B Howdy, folks, it's Mike Ryan.

[Chris Coughlan]

If you were listening to the show just a couple days ago, you know that Jeremy came up with the top five breath of fresh air type of list. A really refreshing feeling. And on that list, Jeremy, help me out.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, that first sip of a Miller Light at the barbecue on a hot day, crack it open. That sound feelings better.

[Chris Coughlan]

That sound ultra satisfying. And then that first sip, it hits. And yes, while it's hot outside, as it is presently cools your body down, it hits a little different down here in South Florida. But as someone that had Miller Lite north of the border and basically football tailgates as the leaves turn, there really isn't a bad time to turn into Miller time.

[Pablo Torre]

Next time, we should do a top.

[Dan LeBatard]

Five times to have Miller Time.

[Chris Coughlan]

I like where your head's at because it's every time. That's right, every time. Morning time. Well, scratch it now. Morning time. Morning. Morning time. If you're on vacation, if you're on vacation, you're on vacation.

[Dan LeBatard]

If you're in a morning tailgate, there's a noon game.

[Chris Coughlan]

It's Miller time somewhere. Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Cheers to 50 years of Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Jeremy]

After zoomies at the dog park, it's time for drive up at Target. In goes a big bag of kibble and one squeaky chicken toy for the good boy. Drive up. That's ready when you are. Only in the Target app, just tap target.

[David Sampson]

Don LeBatard.

[Dan LeBatard]

Taytas stugats. Taytas.

[Billy Corben]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Pablo Torre]

So I guess who framed Dee Gordon then? And why did they do that? Like, why did they really want him suspended for steroids? Because you're saying it was impossible. But he said it's what happened. So who framed him and why'd they do?

[Dan LeBatard]

Can't happen. You would have. You can. There's a whole appeals process that you get to go through. That's secretive. And people think that the teams know. I am here to tell you the truth, which is I had no idea that he had tested positive. We know which players get tested because we're there when the P guys, they're taking players off the field and holding the Ding dong, waiting for them to go pee pee. But after that, I don't think. We don't hear a word. And the first time we hear is when we get a call from the league that a player has been suspended. We don't know about the appeals process. There are no leaks about that. And that was just. It was an absolute shock to me.

[Dee Gordon]

So, David, he's claiming two things that are clearly not true. Number one, that someone from the league wanted to prevent him from stopping Bryce Harper's Triple Crown. Even though Bryce Harper was nowhere near winning the Triple Crown. I feel like officials at Major League Baseball know what the Triple Crown is. And then he's also saying that he was set up and that he didn't fail this drug test. Like, these are two ridiculous claims.

[David Sampson]

What is that? What is all that?

[Dan LeBatard]

What is that? I don't know if it's just delusion. I don't know if it's misremembering. I don't know what any of that is. But that's his truth and he's entitled to his truth. And I respect his truth. I may not agree with it, but if he thinks that someone told him not to win the batting title because of Bryce Harper's Triple Crown, whether or not it's true is not relevant to how he perceives it to be. And it's the same with steroids. Listen, Ryan Braun, There's a long list of players, long list, who say, oh, that it was a bad sample. It was. It was misplaced by the FedEx people. Like there's a million things that people say, but guess what? We have a whole process in place which stops that from happening. If there's a problem with the sample or a problem with being framed or this or that, the union is there to protect players from that happening. Believe me, we didn't want D. Gordon to miss 80 games as our leadoff hitter when we thought we had a chance to actually be good that year. It's the last thing we'd want. Oh, by the way, he was already signed to a guaranteed long term contract.

[Pablo Torre]

Side note, why did the union let A Rod take a suspension without failing a drug test?

[Dan LeBatard]

That so? That is a longer story. Thank you, Billy. The A Rod situation is what happened between him And Rob and what happened between him and all the line that he did. And that's why a Rod's been on the Reclamation tour ever since, where he is now, you know, pals with Rob and talks so highly of him and is now an owner himself, which is where he wanted to be and is rightfully so. In one of the great deals of this century, getting the Timberwolves at, you know, just over a billion and a half dollars and it's worth over three. But I think it's pretty clear a Rod did steroids. He admitted it. He lied about it. And then he did. If you. What. Billy Corbyn, the guy we work with, you know him, go watch the movie about what a Rod did and what. And what baseball did. It's pretty shocking. That's why he was suspended.

[David Sampson]

That movie was excellent. The sound of Dee Gordon is from the podcast Raw Room. I don't understand why you're saying I respect D. Gordon's truth when it's his truth and not the truth.

[Dan LeBatard]

Because it's just. Because I was there in the room where it happened, and I know exactly what happened.

[David Sampson]

But you know it's not the truth. So why would you respect his truth when his truth is not the truth?

[Dan LeBatard]

Because I'm trying to be a better person. I'm trying to not completely come down on someone who I love dearly when. When I don't understand and I text him and asked him, would you go to his funeral?

[Chris Coughlan]

Would you go to his funeral?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Really?

[Dan LeBatard]

I would go to Dee Gordon's funeral.

[Chris Coughlan]

Can we stop perpetuating this where people are entitled to their own facts? You know the truth. That is a universal truth.

[Dee Gordon]

Someone's truth is always code for your liar.

[Chris Coughlan]

That is not his truth. He is lying.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, David wasn't in the room.

[Dan LeBatard]

People delude themselves every day.

[Pablo Torre]

He wasn't in the room when the pee pee man was watching him hold his ding dong. And he did tell us not put.

[David Sampson]

It on the poll, please. At Lebatard show, if you hear the phrase holding his ding dong to go pee pee, is that ever coming from the mouth of someone 56 years old or 57 years old? @ Lebatard show.

[Chris Coughlan]

These are going to be funny. Polls to hear out loud.

[Pablo Torre]

Couple polls today have been weird.

[Chris Coughlan]

Can you take out an equity loan on your franchise the way that you can if your home gains value? Because Dan mentioned that the Cowboys were purchased for what, how much? How many million?

[David Sampson]

150 million.

[Chris Coughlan]

And now they might be the richest team in all of them.

[David Sampson]

They have to Be right. They are. What are the Cowboys worth?

[Dan LeBatard]

So can you mean the richest? You mean that they'd have the highest enterprise valuation of any team in sports?

[Chris Coughlan]

Yeah, sure, Dick, just tell me like, can you do that?

[Dan LeBatard]

My name is David.

[David Sampson]

You know what you should, you should make, we should make a bet around here at some point where if you lose, you have to change the imaging of your show for a day to Dick Samson. It's Dick Sampson.

[Chris Coughlan]

Just answer the question.

[Dan LeBatard]

So the answer is that you do actually, you do pledge part of your team and your team's revenues to acquire debt. But teams are split in different ways. So there's different holding companies. So stay with me, it'll be quick. Two minutes. There's a holding company that has the franchise in it and you do borrow money against the value of the franchise and that is a league wide credit facility. Then you've got the league wide TV deals. All of that revenue is in another bucket and there's money borrowed against that stream of revenue. And then you've got the worth of the outside the franchise, outside your media revenue, the other things that the Cowboys do, that has a worth and you borrow money against that. So you don't go to a bank and say, hey, my team is worth $10 billion, so let me borrow $2 billion because I want to buy a yacht. Because it's already split up into different buckets that support the loans that the teams already have, both at the national level, which all teams share. And then individual teams have debt as well where they're using parts of their franchise enterprise value to get those loans.

[Chris Coughlan]

Understood. Easy to follow. Thank you for doing that. When teams, when teams cry poor and say our franchise is losing money, are those additional revenue streams, those loans, those credit pools taken into account?

[Dan LeBatard]

So it's the same. Yes. It's the same thing with your house or with your life. If you need to borrow money and you take money out of your house, you have to pay interest on the money you borrow and you use the money that you borrow in order to pay other expenses or to live. But part of the cost of living is the fact you have to pay interest on the money that you borrowed. So all of these teams have in their financial statements a huge amount under the line debt service. And that is the amount of money that you owe to the banks who you have borrowed money for based on the value of the league and your franchise.

[David Sampson]

As part of Pablo Torre finds out his ascent to the top of the podcast rankings, part of his library has the sporting class where John Skipper and David Sampson do a better job of covering all business things than anyone I've heard anywhere in the space. If you want more of that, I suggest. If you like your sports business, I suggest that you find Pablo Torrey. Find out. And the sporting class which exists under its umbrella. But I want to do a couple of things here with you before we continue. David, I want to get some thoughts from you on what happened with Colbert. But since you already mentioned that the biggest shocks of your life in baseball were, number one, Jose Fernandez dying, and number two, Dee Gordon testing positive for steroids, can we do a top five list with you of biggest shocks in your Marlins career that doesn't have number two and number one in it? Can we go 5, 4, 3? I'll give you time to think. And we can go to Colbert first. If. If this is all very confusing because the difficult math of this eludes you because you. You can't do some quick math that doesn't favor the owners. Only math that favors the owners is the math that you can do. Number five. David.

[Dan LeBatard]

When Giancarlo Stanton tweeted after the 2012 trade how angry he was, I was shocked that he would do that.

[David Sampson]

Number four.

[Dan LeBatard]

When Cliff Floyd claimed that we didn't tell him he was traded. Number three, When I discovered that the San Diego Padres had two sets of medical records.

[David Sampson]

Do you want to elaborate on any of those stories?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, they're all true stories. Number number five, we traded a bunch of. It is my truth, and it happens to be true. You guys may remember when the Marlins made a big trade in 2012 that caused the end of my relationship with the Dan LeBatard show and Giancarlo Stanton.

[David Sampson]

Twitter was not the end of it.

[Dee Gordon]

Clear right now. What's going on?

[David Sampson]

Clearly, Dick.

[Pablo Torre]

His truth.

[Dan LeBatard]

Guys, stop calling me Dick. Dan.

[David Sampson]

I'm sorry, Dick. Samson.

[Dan LeBatard]

David.

[Jeremy]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[David Sampson]

Don Lebatard.

[Dan LeBatard]

We love you. We've got you. We've all got each other. Let's go right now.

[David Sampson]

Stugats.

[Dan LeBatard]

1, 2, 3. Brett. 1, 2, 3. BRETT.

[Billy Corben]

This is the Dan Lebatar show with Stugats.

[Dan LeBatard]

I can't remember What. What the tweet was. And I didn't know Twitter. I knew Twitter was around. I just wasn't on Twitter. But Giancarlo had a one line tweet. And I then went up to him and I called him. We weren't in person. It was during, you know, the off season. And I asked him what was going on, and he apologized, not for the feeling, but for the way he expressed the feeling, because it was just so public and so immature and so ridiculous. He was our, you know, leader. In fact, he was going to be a Hall of Fame superstar, and it was just ridiculous. And. But we've talked, obviously, since that many times, and Twitter can be a tough thing. In terms of Cliff Floyd, it was a joke. We traded Clif Floyd, and he claimed that he had to read about the trade from. From. It got released in the media that Cliff Floyd was being traded. But we called Cliff Floyd, but the guy doesn't answer his phone. And so what we had to do is we left a message. Did we actually speak to Cliff Floyd? If you put your head in the sand and pretend that you're not around and go into hibernation like Aaron Rodgers and then say, oh, my God, I had no idea. It's just a ridiculous position trying to make us look bad. And that bothered me greatly. I have an Oli, which I'll get to. Number number three was A.J. preller. We made a trade with the Padres, and when you make a trade, you exchange medical records. Trainers talk, doctors talk. We found out, and we then rescinded the trade, that the San Diego Padres illegally keep two sets of medical records, one that they'll show to teams and one that are real. And they got in significant trouble for that. And it was the end of A.J. preller's ability to actually function in terms of dealing with the 29 other teams. He is still in that position, which is shocking to everyone else in that position.

[Pablo Torre]

Stanton's tweet after getting traded. All right, I'm pissed off. Plain and simple.

[Dan LeBatard]

That was it.

[Dee Gordon]

Mike Stanton.

[David Sampson]

What is your.

[Dan LeBatard]

Remember that? He was Mike Stanton.

[David Sampson]

What is your Oli. Sorry.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, that's okay. He was Mike Stan. And he walked in one day when he was just trying to, you know, form his career, and he said, david, I will now be Jean Carp. I said, okay, like, you got to tell the union. You got to tell the commissioner's office, because we got to change all your baseball cards, and we got to change all the scoreboards, but now you're Giancarlo, and it Was. He's been Giancarlo ever since. If you have a Mike Stanton card from when he was young, that may be a valuable piece of collectible if you can find one of those.

[David Sampson]

What is your oli on being shocked while president of the Marlins?

[Dan LeBatard]

I was blown away at the reaction when. When we did something. There was a franchise swap that happened when I first got to Florida and there was a writer here that none of you know anymore because he's totally irrelevant. His name is Mike Baradino. What do you say? And he did a. He did an article that was the COVID of Baseball America that said that I stole fax machines from Montreal. And I was just shocked at the level of irresponsible journalism that that was and the. The absolute BS it was in. The source he had was a guy we didn't bring with us from Montreal who was just full of sour grapes and vitriol and lies. I was shocked.

[Dee Gordon]

His truth.

[David Sampson]

Do you know how much shock there has to be in your life for there to be a controversy in which someone is making up that you have on recording David Sampson saying all sorts of things that are racist and awful and it was all made up. And it is not on his list of times that he was shocked as the Marlins president. I want to play some sound for you here. A lot of people were waiting for Jon Stewart last night. I imagine the Daily show did great ratings last night. And off of the news that Trump is suing Fox News, I want to play just an assortment of sounds from Jon Stewart's show last night.

[Mike Ryan]

Donald Trump is suing Rupert Murdoch, the owner of Fox News. The man other than Biden may be most responsible for getting Trump elected.

[David Sampson]

Fox. Yeah, snuck that in there.

[Mike Ryan]

Fox spends 24 hours a day blowing Trump and it's not enough. Imagine suing someone mid blow.

[David Sampson]

Let's play some other Jon Stewart sound. I don't know how David Sampson thinks or feels about the idea that Colbert might have been let go for reasons other than strictly financial reasons, as Paramount has claimed. Let's listen to some more Jon Stewart.

[Mike Ryan]

I understand the corporate fear. I understand the fear that you and your advertisers have with $8 billion at stake. But understand this truly, the shows that you now seek to cancel, censor and control. A not insignificant portion of that $8 billion value came from those shows. That's what made you that money. Shows that say something, shows that take a stand, shows that are unafraid and not to believe me, this is not a. We speak truth to power. We don't we speak opinions to television cameras, but we try. We try every night. And if you believe as corporations or as networks, you can make yourselves so innocuous that you can serve a gruel so flavorless that you will never again be on the boy king's radar. A why will anyone watch you? And you are wrong.

[David Sampson]

I have one more sound I want to play, but you're shaking your head, so go ahead.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's just I look at that clip and I just think it's so sad. It's like someone doing a commercial for typewriters when the computer's coming out. Or it's like the national news people. 6:30 and 11:30 used to mean something. I grant you that it doesn't anymore. That's life. I'm sorry. Times have changed. It's a new world out there. The late night shows, the juice is not worth the squeeze anymore. It's fun, like it's, it's artsy, it's opinionated, it's smart. Except people don't care anymore and the cost just isn't right. And when you're looking at a merger, you merge because you are trying to find economies of scale. You're trying to find savings, you're trying to pay down debt, you're trying to improve and increase the worth of the shares of stock that you own. As one of the hosts of the shows, guess what? The reason why your stock stinks is because they're losing so much money on doing something that used to be cool. It's not cool to be the 6:30 national news anchor because no one gets their news that way anymore. It's not cool. It used to be. Believe me, I grew up on Letterman. It's not cool to have the 11:30 show anymore. It's not a $20 million position. It's not $100 million cost expense. It's way easier. Let me ask Jon Stewart this and Stephen Colbert, or you can keep your job. Then we're going to lay off 10,000 people who, when we add them up, don't make what you make your choice. But we're going to find the cut somewhere and we're finding it in the area of irrelevance. That's the reality of what happened.

[David Sampson]

Okay, I want to get into this with you. I will say that I've seen some of the reporting on this and it's a little difficult because I don't know what reporting is true or not and I don't know what numbers are true or not. So I have heard that that show had 200 employees. That's accurate. Colbert himself has said that. And that they were losing allegedly $40 million a year. And also that CBS owns Colbert's building. So that's a substantive piece of real estate that they can also sell if they're just selling parts. But you believe that the statement is real, that Paramount says that everything that happened there, even though Colbert was accusing them on Monday of a big fat. Taking a big fat bribe on their platform, you believe that that's a strictly financial decision. Strict mention, late nights dying.

[Dan LeBatard]

The decision to make cuts in the middle of this merger negotiation has been going on not for a day, a week or a month, but it's going on for over a year.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, but this week was the first time that Colbert accused them of taking a big fat bribe. And last week was the first time that the FCC met with Skydance's CEO.

[Dan LeBatard]

Not true. That is not true. This merger has been in play for over a year. There have been meetings and anticipatory documents about how do we get this approved. That's what mergers do. Both sides of the merger. And as for what you're saying about just discovering Stephen Colbert has been against Trump. He's been doing it since the beginning, all of a sudden.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, but big fat bribe happened this week. Big accusing on their platform. A big fat bribe that happened three days before he was fired.

[Dan LeBatard]

People on platforms go against the platform. You made a living going, big, fat, big bribe.

[David Sampson]

A big fat bribe. I never accused ESPN of taking a big fat bribe.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, you're Meadowlark because of what eventually became too much.

[David Sampson]

I did not get fired by Disney. The times changed, the company changed, the country changed. We did not change.

[Dan LeBatard]

But that's it.

[Chris Coughlan]

You did accuse.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's it. That's a mic drop that. Exactly. The country has changed.

[David Sampson]

I didn't get fired for accusing them. I didn't get fired for accusing them of cowardice. And I also don't have nearly the power, ratings or money that Colbert has.

[Chris Coughlan]

You may not have gotten fired for that, but it was certainly a contributing factor. I haven't lived it like that.

[David Sampson]

I didn't get fired.

[Chris Coughlan]

Okay, understood.

[Dan LeBatard]

And I'm not saying you got fired. What I'm saying is there was a separation. That is how Meadowlark started that you were agreeing to. You were a part of that separation.

[David Sampson]

He didn't get fired. Colbert got fired. And he didn't even get the offer of would you like to do a scaled down show?

[Chris Coughlan]

And I understand what David is doing right now. It's it's hard to ignore the timing on this. It was pretty instantaneous. It's suspicious, especially after they actually agreed to this settlement. And look, 60 Minutes, you could hold them up as an example. They were very critical of its parent company. And so far we haven't seen the punitive measures, but we may not know those actual punitive measures. That may have all been handled, but.

[David Sampson]

60 Minutes wasn't making jokes and 60 Minutes wasn't offering opinions.

[Pablo Torre]

60 Minutes ahead of 60 Minutes also, like, resigned.

[Chris Coughlan]

Yeah, there was that.

[Pablo Torre]

There was, yeah.

[Chris Coughlan]

David, you mentioned it's a dying time slot, but we just saw what Jon Stewart said about these are not small shows. These are shows where they built. Their valuation on South park just got $1.5 billion from Paramount for a five year streaming deal. So I don't know how much value you put on that property. But if south park alone for just a five year streaming deal is worth 1.5 billion, you could say the Late show as a brand is worth several hundreds of millions of dollars. If not touching the B word. Same thing for the Daily show. If you include their entire archive pretty, pretty soon with just those three properties, you're getting close to $8 billion in worth. So you're not touching little small properties that are fiscally irresponsible. You are directly impacting your $8 billion merger.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, actually, if those properties are losing money for you, then you don't make it up on scale. You can't make the argument that, hey, we only lose a dollar a unit, let's just make more units.

[Chris Coughlan]

Bullshit. You made $2 billion on a franchise that was constantly crying poor and losing money.

[Dan LeBatard]

And what. Who are you talking about? The Marlins?

[Chris Coughlan]

Yeah, I'm talking about the Marlins. You can absolutely make a big time profit on properties that lose money hand over fist. You cried poor every year, but that was his truth.

[Dan LeBatard]

But you're talking about something that you can actually value with outstanding shares. The Marlins were a private company. There's a public market with, with Paramount. I'm not sure I understand the comparison where you just add up the number of outstanding shares, time the share price, then you look at what the liquidation value would be of the assets and you say, wait a minute, is this trading above or below what would be, you know, liquidation value? And you go, and you, when you're making cuts. I've had friends who have been fired from cbs, Paramount during the last merger. And the reason why is you're looking to cut expenses. And when you look at Late Night, you would say, hey, by the Way, Mike, there are people getting paid $20 million. Tony Romo got, what, 17 million a year to call NFL games. Three million less than Colbert, doing way less work. Because there is way more money in NFL than there is in late night. There is a different mix now of how that money happens and how it gets generated that is not related at all to how it was built. And what Jon Stewart is saying is, hey, we were part of why we're successful. Okay, that's great, but it's not anymore. Therefore, we got to move on. That's just business.

[David Sampson]

We're going to run out of time here for your review because we have to make time for. Would you attend their funeral? So give me the music right now. Yes, the happy music.

[Chris Coughlan]

David Sampson, would you attend Chris Coughlan's funeral?

[Dan LeBatard]

I just was talking about him with my son because he was like, oh, yeah, the rookie of the year. No, I would not.

[Chris Coughlan]

That was quick. Would you attend Marcel Ozuna's funeral?

[Dee Gordon]

Ozuna, the Braves.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hi, I'm Ozuna, the Braves. Do you have a camera in my house? The answer is that in South Florida, if he died young, tragically, I would go to his funeral because. But if he dies as an old man, like in his 70s, let's say, and I'm still alive, I would not. What about 58? If he's 58, that would make me in my late 70s, I probably would go Craig Minervini. No, I like Craig so fast. No, I do like him, but I clearly. I just feel like his funeral won't be interesting. Flowers, though. I love his brother. I love you, Craig, but no, I will not even send flowers to that. I don't even know who I'd send a note to. Maybe his ex wife. I would send a note to.

[Billy Corben]

God damn, man.

[Pablo Torre]

That seems like a shot. What if he died with D? Gordon and you would attend Ds? You then would not attend Craig Minervini's.

[Dan LeBatard]

They wouldn't do it separately.

[Chris Coughlan]

Would you attend?

[Pablo Torre]

No, they do.

[Dan LeBatard]

A great question.

[Pablo Torre]

A day apart, it was the same incident. You would attend one, you'd be seen at one, same people would be there at the second one. You would say, no, I'm not.

[David Sampson]

It's the same. You can get a hotel nearby.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're there. Now, listen, when you've got multiple deaths, you got to stagger the funerals because with one touch, you can only be at one dance. So if you stagger the funeral times. And Minervini and Gordon died together in an accident, and both are South Florida funerals, though. Di soon would be in California. I wouldn't fly cross country. I'd choose L. A and then not come back. I'd visit my daughter. But if they were in the same cemetery one day apart, I do it, visit my daughter.

[Pablo Torre]

Two birds.

[Billy Corben]

Multitasking.

[David Sampson]

We got to let him go there. After we get the Holy Trinity, right? We already got Ding Dong and Peepee. And he closes with the punctuation of took us. Ladies and gentlemen, David.

[Pablo Torre]

You got to die for you to visit your daughter's crazy.

[Dan LeBatard]

David.

[David Sampson]

Nothing personal. If you want his truth. Every day, two hours a day now. Double the David. Double the dick. See you later, Samson.

[Billy Corben]

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