The Big Suey: First Fake

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz – Episode Summary: "The Big Suey: First Fake"

Release Date: December 20, 2024
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz
Guests: Amin Elhassan, Andrew Hawkins, Roy Bellamy, Pablo Torre

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Introduction to "First Fake" Competition

In this episode titled "The Big Suey: First Fake," hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz introduce an engaging and competitive segment called "First Fake." The premise revolves around testing the abilities of Amin Elhassan and Andrew Hawkins to fabricate informed takes on various sports and pop-culture topics without prior preparation or recent game viewing.

Dan Le Batard kicks off the segment by outlining the challenge:
“We want to play First Fake with Amin and Andrew Hawkins, and I think I need to kick them out of the room in order to do this.” (01:03).

Stugotz and Mike Ryan join in the banter, predicting the outcome:

• Stugotz: “Amin is a master talker” (04:24)
• Mike Ryan: “I got my money on Amin” (06:22)

The competition sets the stage for a dynamic exchange of sports insights under pressure.

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Football Analysis: Chargers vs. Broncos

The first topic tackled in the "First Fake" competition is the recent Chargers' 34-27 victory over the Broncos. Dan Le Batard questions the shift in performance of Jim Harbaugh's defense, which had been robust earlier in the season but seemed to falter in the last two games.

Andrew Hawkins responds by attributing the defensive decline to late-season adjustments by opposing teams:
“When you're at this point in the season, you have to understand that things change... defensive coordinators adjust.” (07:37)

However, Roy Bellamy counters Hawkins' analysis by suggesting that Harbaugh's strategies have been figured out by NFL teams:
“Dan Lebatard... comes in with some new stuff, and everyone's like, ah, how do we adjust? But... the league has figured him out.” (08:22)

The debate intensifies as Dan interjects humorously, implying Hawkins has been bested: “I think Hawkins concedes defeat there because Amin spit in his face with a swollen lip.” (09:05)

Andrew Hawkins admits being overwhelmed:
“He was yelling notes with such emphasis... what is going on here?” (09:37)

The segment highlights the competitive spirit and depth of analysis both hosts bring to the table.

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Basketball Debate: Joel Embiid's Relationship with Philadelphia

Shifting gears to basketball, Dan Le Batard poses a question about Joel Embiid's strained relationship with the Philadelphia community and his perceived lack of toughness.

Roy Bellamy offers a nuanced critique:
“Joel Embiid does not endear himself to the city... he ran the scapegoat out of town.” (10:06)

Andrew Hawkins expands on Embiid's leadership flaws:
“His ego is swollen like a mean's lip... he cannot motivate anybody around him.” (11:11)

The conversation delves into Embiid's focus on personal accolades over team success, questioning his ability to foster a cohesive team environment.

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Impact of Sports Analytics vs. Traditional Methods

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the role of analytics in modern sports. Hosts and guests debate how data-driven strategies have transformed traditional gameplay across baseball, football, and basketball.

Pablo Torre articulates the tension between optimized play and entertainment:
“There is the eternal struggle that sports are facing right now... the optimal way to play may not be the optimal entertainment value.” (33:12)

Mike Ryan adds depth by addressing fan perceptions:
“Modern analytics have moved baseball away from base stealing... but it all just makes us smarter. It all just makes it more fun.” (32:30)

The discussion pivots to potential solutions, such as modifying game rules to balance analytics with spontaneity. Roy Bellamy proposes region-specific three-point lines in basketball, inspired by baseball's varying home run lines:
“The three-point line should be home court dependent as well... now you've got some variance, some strategy going.” (37:26)

This segment underscores the ongoing debate about maintaining the integrity and excitement of sports amidst evolving analytical approaches.

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Debate on the NBA Cup and Player Legacies

The conversation further explores how league decisions, like the introduction of the NBA Cup, impact player legacies and youth idolization.

Roy Bellamy criticizes the NBA Cup, suggesting it dilutes meaningful competition for younger generations:
“The NBA Cup is not for any of us. It's for children... one day, kids will not think the NBA Cup is something worth winning.” (39:27)

Dan Le Batard questions the necessity of such tournaments, highlighting the influence of star players like LeBron James and Giannis Antetokounmpo: “LeBron James and Giannis have now won and cared about this tournament... that's ridiculous.” (39:17)

The hosts debate the long-term effects of introducing new competitive elements on the sport's traditional appeal and player motivation.

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Promotion of "Underdogs" Podcast

Towards the episode's conclusion, Dan Le Batard promotes another podcast, "Underdogs," hosted by Jordan Brenner and Peter Keating. He praises its critical acclaim and invites listeners to check it out:
“We are out of time, but your Underdogs of the Year… highlights so people can go get it over there.” (40:28)

Guests Pablo Torre and Mike Ryan briefly discuss upcoming episodes, teasing topics like the Olympics and major sports upsets.

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Closing Remarks and Holiday Greetings

As the episode wraps up, Dan Le Batard extends holiday wishes to listeners, acknowledging the show's team and contributors:
“Happy holidays. Legitimately. Happy holidays...” (25:38)

Stugotz adds a heartfelt message:
“Happy holidays. From our fam to yours.” (26:32)

The hosts conclude with light-hearted banter and acknowledgments of upcoming content, setting a festive tone for the season.

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Notable Quotes with Speaker Attribution and Timestamps

• Dan Le Batard: “We want to play First Fake with Amin and Andrew Hawkins, and I think I need to kick them out of the room in order to do this.” (01:03)
• Stugotz: “Amin is a master talker.” (04:24)
• Roy Bellamy: “Joel Embiid does not endear himself to the city... he ran the scapegoat out of town.” (10:06)
• Pablo Torre: “There is the eternal struggle that sports are facing right now...” (33:12)
• Roy Bellamy: “The three-point line should be home court dependent as well...” (37:26)
• Dan Le Batard: “LeBron James and Giannis have now won and cared about this tournament... that’s ridiculous.” (39:17)
• Stugotz: “Happy holidays. From our fam to yours.” (26:32)

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Conclusion

"The Big Suey: First Fake" episode delivers a compelling mix of competitive banter, in-depth sports analysis, and lively discussions on the evolving landscape of sports analytics. Hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, alongside guests Amin Elhassan and Andrew Hawkins, navigate through heated debates and light-hearted exchanges, providing listeners with both entertainment and thoughtful insights into contemporary sports dynamics.

For those interested in the intersection of sports, analytics, and pop culture, this episode offers a rich and engaging experience, even if you haven't tuned into the live broadcast.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[Stugotz]

Feeling lucky? All bets are on Bookie, the hilarious comedy from Chuck Lorre and Nick Mackay, starring Sebastian Maniscalco as an old school bookmaker just trying to stay alive in a world of bad beats. Does a house always win? Find out as Bookie returns for season two December 12th on Max. Please watch responsibly.

[Mike Ryan]

Hey, it's Austin James.

[Amin Elhassan]

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[Andrew Hawkins]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Amin Elhassan]

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[Andrew Hawkins]

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[Amin Elhassan]

Learn more @freestylelibre.us.

[Mike Ryan]

For prescription only safety info found @freestyleibre us.

[Dan LeBatard]

Welcome to the Big Suey presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show?

[Mike Ryan]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Dan LeBatard]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it.

[Mike Ryan]

And now here's the Marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar. Today's episode is sponsored by DraftKings. Stay tuned because you'll hear more about DraftKings and all it has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings the Crown is yours. I want a Dan Fetard for Christmas.

[Dan LeBatard]

Only a Dan Van Petard will do.

[Stugotz]

No Stu got some Billy Oroi.

[Dan LeBatard]

I want a Dan Lambentard to play.

[Mike Ryan]

With and enjoy I want a Dan.

[Stugotz]

Lentard for Christmas Only a Dan Lentard.

[Dan LeBatard]

Will do don't like Ryan, Lucy or Tony I really like the gab Lebiton Levitard really likes to move.

[Roy Bellamy]

Mom says.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan will eat me up A dead teacher says Dan is a gluten free.

[Dan LeBatard]

Human I want to Dan Levitard for.

[Mike Ryan]

Christmas Only Dan the Pitar will do.

[Stugotz]

None of the codies not even smutty.

[Mike Ryan]

This episode of the Dan LeBatard show is brought to you by Smirnoff. We do game days. Please drink responsibly. The Smirnoff Company New York, New York.

[Dan LeBatard]

That song both strange and self involved. Not unlike our Next guest Pablo Torre finds out is the name of the very popular podcast that Nick Wright calls the world's most expensive podcast. We will get to that in a second. But, Pablo, I need your help with Andrew Hawkins and Amin, both of whom say, and they've shown it, they've proven it, that they can fake a take on just about anything, especially in their area of expertise, if they have not seen the game the night before. We want to play First Fake with Amin and Andrew Hawkins, and I think I need to kick them out of the room in order to do this. I don't think that. I don't think. I think that needs to happen in the other room in the penalty box. And I need to ideate with you guys on what it is that we're going to do on First Fake. What are the topics going to be? There's got to be a football topic. There's got to be a basketball topic. They have no information, and they're going to be able to fake it because I do believe Andrew Hawkins. I believe this game's too easy for Andrew Hawkins, not unlike with Matthew Stafford, that he gets bored by the easy elements of this game, and he can do the fake better than he can do just, you know, whatever. Going out there bored and giving you football analysis.

[Stugotz]

Dan Amin is a master talker, right?

[Mike Ryan]

He can talk about anything, any point to anybody. Right? I've seen it in action. Sober, not sober. I got my money on Amin to.

[Stugotz]

Win the first fake.

[Dan LeBatard]

I like the upstart. I like the novice. Andrew Hawkins has a polish that Amin does.

[Stugotz]

He's. Guys, he's actively doing this for a living on espn.

[Andrew Hawkins]

He's.

[Amin Elhassan]

This is dangerous. This is a dangerous game that we're playing. Amin also is somebody who famously can talk to you about his own dreams for hours, and no one's sure if he made those up.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay.

[Amin Elhassan]

Very squarely in his wheelhouse.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, we need to have him. I believe there's a competition going on now at Meadowlark for all the space and all the money and all the places where it is that we have to fight for the things that we believe in. And I believe when I call Andrew Hawkins a novice, I'm talking about around here. I mean, we've got a. We got a sage veteran who's been doing the take game and making fun of the tape game in a meeting. Like he's. He's old and tired, man. Look at his face. Like he's.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah. What happened? Is he all right? Is he all right?

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm just saying. Andrew Hawkins comes in here, he smells good. He smells like confidence. He smells like, I'd like to do all of the things better than these people around here do them. He's not coming here to be a peer. He's coming here to get past us.

[Stugotz]

He's already passed us.

[Dan LeBatard]

And I believe.

[Amin Elhassan]

Didn't Andrew Hawkins invent like a virtual reality system? I saw that on the Internet the other day. I was like, wait a minute.

[Stugotz]

He's not ragtag upstart even around these parts. He walks in, he commands a room. He's the man.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay? You can do all you want in terms of supporting all the things Andrew Hawkins is. I believe he is those things as well. I also believe that he's about to dust. I mean, I know, says Tony.

[Stugotz]

No way.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, let's take our bets now before we do this, because we're going to get to this in a second, but go ahead and take our bets. Just tell me who you got.

[Stugotz]

Who you got one name that's doing it presently actively for espn. I'm going Andrew Hawkins. You know where I stand.

[Roy Bellamy]

I'm going to.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm going to go with Amin. This is his comfort zone. I got a mean.

[Amin Elhassan]

Nah, I mean's playing hurt.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I'm going to go with Andrew.

[Pablo Torre]

Hawks confidence is too high right now.

[Amin Elhassan]

Amin Elhassan is absolutely going to destroy Andrew Hawkins at this.

[Stugotz]

Roy brought up a good point, though. He's playing hurt. Best ones, do you know what they tell their bodies? Not today.

[Dan LeBatard]

Not today. All right, so this is pretty dramatic. Do you guys have a football question? I want to go football with both of them, basketball with both of them. And then I want to go to a subject that neither one of them know anything about. Can.

[Stugotz]

You're hosting the debate desk, Dan, you're throwing out the football topic.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, let's go to the other room and see what we have here. And again, this is all born of the Chargers beat the Broncos last night, 34 to 27. Fun game. Charger defense, all of a sudden can't do anything right. There's an advantage to going first or going. There's an advantage to going second here. I will go out to you first, Hawk, on your area of expertise. Can you please explain to me why Jim Harbaugh has been good at coaching defense, but why that defense, which was best for points per game the entire season, the last two games, all of a sudden is getting shredded pretty good?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Look, when you're at this point in the season, you have to understand that things change, right? Like it's like that sophomore quarterback slump. You go out and you have a great first year. And then defensive coordinators adjust. They figure out what your tendencies are. This is what happens late in. In. In the season. And for Jim Harbaugh, him understanding both sides of the ball, when you brought him into Los Angeles, you knew that's what you were getting. Not just a guy who can tutor the quarterback with all the ability in the world, but also his understanding of defense, bringing in mentor. And in these moments where they go down by a whole lot of points and they surge back because of that prowess, because of that knowledge that he has on both sides of the ball. December is when you get the most from your. From your head coach.

[Roy Bellamy]

Look at this. Dan Lebatard. He didn't even answer your question. He didn't even address your question. The question was, the defense is great and has been shredded the last two weeks. You know why Dan Lebatard, I'll tell you exactly why that's happened. Because they figured him out. Because the book was out. You know, he comes in, yeah, he's been in the NFL before, but he's been gone for a while. So a lot of guys, they don't know what he's doing, what he's thinking or whatever. So he comes in with some new stuff, and everyone's like, ah, how do we adjust? But guess what? The NFL, if anything else, is a study league. It's a league where we get playbooks and other playbooks and we watch and we learn and we make notes and we see what worked against other people and what didn't and what's happened in the last couple weeks. Dan Levatar is. The league has figured him out.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think a mean.

[Mike Ryan]

I think Daffy Duck, I think.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think Hawkins has actually. Hawkins concedes defeat there because Amin spit in his face with a swollen lip.

[Mike Ryan]

They take notes.

[Amin Elhassan]

If you asked me which guy is a former football player dealing with a lifetime of football injuries, I'd be like, it's the guy with the fat lip who is cognitively impaired, but also very sharp.

[Dan LeBatard]

Right? Now, Hawk, would you concede that Amin won that? Because he said, take notes in your face and spit spittle in your face.

[Andrew Hawkins]

He said it, like, twice. And it was. It was a. It was a lot. And I couldn't hold it in at that moment. Cause I, like, tapped out by looking at his face. And then when I came back to, he was yelling notes with such emphasis. And I'm like, what is going on here?

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, so one. Nothing. Amin and it wasn't notes. It was noth note.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yes.

[Dan LeBatard]

Let's go to Amin now. Amin, please explain to me why it is that Joel Embiid cannot get along with Philadelphia. And if you believe he's not tough.

[Roy Bellamy]

Enough, well, Dan LeBatard, I think when you talk about Joel Embiid, there's a lot of things going on. Number one is I never want to fault a guy for getting injured like injuries happen. Brandon Roy, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill. There's so many great players, Bill Walton, whose careers were shortened and their legacies were impacted by injury. At the same time, I don't think Joel Embiid does himself any favors when he talks in the media, talking about, look at all I've done for this city. Even though they haven't got out in the second round of the playoffs since Allen Iverson was on the sidelines there, even though he came back not to run in the playoffs, but because he wanted to go to the Olympics, he came back for a good show of face, to play in the playoffs for the Philadelphia 76ers. These little things, these little microaggressions, as these kids like to call it, those are the things that do not endear him to a city that otherwise would love him. Also, one last thing. He ran the scapegoat out of town. If Ben Simmons are here, nobody would be blaming Joel Embiid for anything.

[Andrew Hawkins]

True lack of leadership. His ego is swollen like a means lip. That is the issue with Joel Embiid. From a leadership perspective. You cannot go out of your way to show everybody how much you care about personal accolades. You cannot go out of your way to show everybody how different you are, how cut above the rest of you are. Because all the people that are tasked with following you feel that and see that, and they will go away from whatever it is you're trying to do. So he cannot motivate anybody around him because it's so very clear that everything he cares about involves Joel Embiid. It's hard to get along with. And in those locker rooms where everybody is high paid and everybody wants to be the star, a real leader does not separate himself from the group. He goes out of his way to say, hey, all I care about is our collective success. And because of that, he will never get along with another star. He will never be in a position where he's in a locker room and people will fall in line and say, this is a guy that we believe in and we will follow to the ends of the earth, and it will show up Every single time playoff basketball comes around, that he is not of the creme de la creme as far as NBA stars are concerned.

[Dan LeBatard]

Pablo, your thoughts? Do I have a ruling here? I don't love that. On first take, they're sharing a microphone. I think we need to do better than that. In the next version of this, we will make sure to.

[Stugotz]

They're also sitting on a sofa to.

[Dan LeBatard]

Produce this slightly better than I'm producing it right now.

[Andrew Hawkins]

He's also forcing me to, like, face him because he's on the profile of it. So now I feel like I have to turn that way. And I think he's spitting the Neosporin onto the mic.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is the thing. Amin has been trying to hide his face for two. For two days. Have you not noticed? He's done the show with his back to the shipping container. Because he's looking at me. He's never been so attentive on me in his life. And it's just because he doesn't want people to see the scar on his face. Pablo, how's this going so far? We need a third topic.

[Amin Elhassan]

I am going to argue that Amin Al Hasan is currently the best version of himself as a debater I've ever heard. Amin, you can hear him. You can hear the queens. You can hear the Stephen A. In his voice. As his cognitive impairment also is clearly upon him. I also would argue that Amin should probably try. You know, Hawk knows this Toradol is a thing football players get before a big game. Amin should actually hurt himself before debating. This is currently working for him.

[Roy Bellamy]

Amin, this is my Toradoll. Is that what you're saying?

[Amin Elhassan]

It's the opposite of Toradoll. I have whatever that is.

[Dan LeBatard]

Do you. Were your feelings hurt by me underestimating you in this matchup?

[Roy Bellamy]

Everybody, all of these guys, that. The only person I will allow Grace to is Roy. Cause Roy said it means playing hurt. But all the other guys say, oh no, Andrew Hawkins this or that. You guys don't understand. I do this for a living.

[Amin Elhassan]

There it is. See, that's what I'm talking about.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You're cosplaying as Stephen A. Smith. That doesn't mean that.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, he's cheating. Had I known he was just gonna be sitting ass.

[Mike Ryan]

That's the game.

[Roy Bellamy]

Of course he is.

[Mike Ryan]

That's the game.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Huh? Listen, it's one of those things.

[Dan LeBatard]

Skill.

[Andrew Hawkins]

There's no way he's not a leader.

[Roy Bellamy]

You gotta understand, he's.

[Amin Elhassan]

Now we have a fight. Now we got a fight.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I didn't know we were Is that what you wanted?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes, I want. You want to try again? You want a third chance on. Do you want a third chance on a topic neither one of you know about so that we can do this correctly? Yes, you're both in a costume. You're both characters.

[Roy Bellamy]

Now here's the thing that Levitard. I know that the scoreboard already says I've won this thing, but if you mean to tell me I'm afraid of Andrew Hawkins, I will put my reputation on the line and I will say this. Winner take all for this laugh.

[Amin Elhassan]

Can we do the debt ceiling? Can we do the debt ceiling?

[Dan LeBatard]

No. You know what? Kick him out of here. Hold on a second. Just get him out of here. No, the debt ceiling. Get for debate.

[Mike Ryan]

Minor penalty.

[Dan LeBatard]

Two minutes for boring. Guys, the last take we'd like to.

[Pablo Torre]

Have from you is the movie Wicked. Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo both gave stellar performances. Both are nominated for awards coming up. But between the two, as Galinda and Elphaba, which gave the better performance?

[Dan LeBatard]

This is tough, man.

[Mike Ryan]

Which.

[Roy Bellamy]

Which, Which.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay, did it on purpose.

[Roy Bellamy]

Here we go. Here's the thing. Dan Levitt thought I love Wicked. I took my kids on Christ, well, not Christmas on Thanksgiving Day to watch Wicked. And they were excited. You know, we pre gamed. We prepped by watching wizard of Oz to get ourselves into the mood, get ourselves into the mind state to watch this wonderful, wonderful Pellicula, as they say down here in Miami. And I love Miami. Miami's different. But I digress. Both actresses delivered an amazing performance. Both sang, both made us laugh, they made us feel. Now, what I will say is this. I felt like Ariana Grande's character was more of a one note, so it was easier for her to play. Meanwhile, the Wicked Witch of the west had a lot more complexity, a lot more texture to her. And so she had to go high, she had to go low, she had to go right.

[Amin Elhassan]

Talk about Latinas.

[Roy Bellamy]

I'm gonna go.

[Stugotz]

She's Italian. Common misconception.

[Dan LeBatard]

I bet his face is falling apart. I choked at the end.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Beaving 8th men. Listen to me. Like my grandmama always tell me, oh, my God, you could put a raccoon in the ass of a popcorn, but you can't make a. Make a jackass jump. Okay? Everybody knows when I'm watching Wicked. Everybody. You mean to tell me Ariana Grande, the top, the best.

[Amin Elhassan]

That was winner take the ball.

[Dan LeBatard]

That was winner take the. That's. That's how you know Ding, ding.

[Roy Bellamy]

That's how you know I'm a Fair competitor, man. I got, I gotta give it to him, man.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I watch way too much Shannon Sharpe. There is nobody that I enjoy more in life than watching Shannon Sharp. And that is the honest to God truth. So I, I got. I should have brought my muscle suit. Next week.

[Mike Ryan]

Good job, guys.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, bravo.

[Roy Bellamy]

I'll bring a suit.

[Dan LeBatard]

Good. We will make this better and better. And also just clip that last part where. Cut it out and edit it out where he says that he loves Shannon Sharpe. Send that out just to the Internet. That context, please do it unfairly so that he can have beef with Shannon Sharpe. And I like him too. He's great. He's wildly entertaining. Thank you guys. Come on back in here, please. Pablo Torre finds out. I've told you, it is a very popular podcast. It is an award winning podcast. It has, I'm going to say the most critical acclaim from snooty elitists in the podcast world than any other podcast presently going in sports. I think I can say that, yeah.

[Amin Elhassan]

We lead the league in that. In snooty elitist approval, definitely.

[Dan LeBatard]

You are on MSNBC and you are now in the middle of a liberal elite spaceship in one of your side projects. How is that going for you? I've seen you. You are now a regular on Morning Joe, correct?

[Amin Elhassan]

That's right. I'm an MSNBC analyst. It is a fun ivory tower where I get to be a jock. That's what I am over there.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're the popular, you're the populist.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm the more popular who gets to be chill and hanging out with the fellas. That's what I do over there. Unlike here where I'm not respected really in any way. I'm reduced to a kind of like inset picture in picture thing where I just laugh at people do bits.

[Dan LeBatard]

You, Tony, you are making faces at Pablo because that's what's happening.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo's the jock on where.

[Dan LeBatard]

No. If you guys had not noticed, I know, Tony, why you're not watch. So let's.

[Stugotz]

So it's Pablo.

[Dan LeBatard]

So to find Pablo on MSNBC now in the morning doing morning chuckle fest television at what I will say is a pretty dangerous time in America and some people are going to visit the White House when they or Trump, when they shouldn't be as journalists. But I'll say what I want there. So you are in the middle of that show and I'm not gonna put you in awkward, more awkward position than that with that show. But you are absolute the cool sports person who comes in. Yes, and everyone loves talking sports with you, even though some people on that set don't even want to talk sports and have never talked sports. But now, because you bring sports to them, you're the cool guy.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm a palate cleanser. I'm a palate cleanser. Representative of the thing that Americans actually care about in a place where people are genuinely worried and fretting about politics, about whatever is happening in D.C. right now, which, again, I think would be an. An awesome debate topic for Shannon Sharp to tackle. What do we do about the Jets?

[Dan LeBatard]

He had to go. He had to go. Shannon Sharpe triumphant performance. He just left.

[Amin Elhassan]

Very good. I think that my role there is. I love talking about sports to people who don't actually know anything about sports. It's kind of the inverse of the exercise you just did. What if you knew something about sports and the audience did it, it's fantastic.

[Dan LeBatard]

Have you seen. I mean, it's too early for you on the west coast, because I've enjoyed. My friends are watching Pablo. They're talking about Pablo. Pablo's getting to a new audience. I would say it's a different audience.

[Amin Elhassan]

Very different.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, we've lived in these different. All of us have lived in the ESPN bubble, but it's different from here. They are fascinated by this shiny sports journalist who comes over and they're like, wow. And he's smart when he talks about the toys.

[Roy Bellamy]

Well, we picked the ambassador for sports to go on that show. Right. It has to be someone that is palatable for those people.

[Dan LeBatard]

You couldn't, you know, a model minority. Pablo Pablo Torre is a model minority for the new America that we can all believe in. You're welcome.

[Roy Bellamy]

It's one of those things where it's like if you gave them an actual sports person, it might be too much, too intense for them. So you get, you. You add a little bit of milk.

[Dan LeBatard]

You give them one from the library. Get me a sports person from the library. Bring over here.

[Roy Bellamy]

Let him push his glasses up the bridge of his nose.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, actually, don't wear glasses. Actually, I'm a guy who doesn't wear glasses anymore. I wear contacts now. The library could be fun. Libraries can be fun. There are books in them.

[Pablo Torre]

Put it under Poll Juju.

[Dan LeBatard]

Is the library fun at Lebitard show?

[Stugotz]

Well, real sports guys want to go to real sporting events. And as you know, listeners, there's only one place that you should check if you want to attend some of the biggest events going. We got college football playoff games, NBA, big time NFL games, legacies, on the line. And if you want to be there, you download the gametime app, you create an account and you use the code DAN that is D A N for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. You get panoramic seat views all in pricing with the push of a button. So there are no surprises when you check out Download Game time today. Pablo Torre. What time is it?

[Amin Elhassan]

I believe it's game time.

[Stugotz]

It is game time, sports guy.

[Dan LeBatard]

Just game time. You don't have to use four words when you can use two. Oh, it's game time. Just you hit it. I believe it's game time. You gotta have some conviction.

[Roy Bellamy]

I believe if my calculations serve correct, Pablo Torre finds.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's right. What we need more is just overconfident declarations of things as opposed to, you know, an open minded curiosity. Sure, let's go that way. Open minded that I'm at.

[Dan LeBatard]

Pablo, are you here to shill on behalf of Pablo Torre finds out? Is it the episode with you, me and Mina, or is it something else that you're promoting?

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm actually here to say thank you, Dan. It's been a really long but incredible year for us in New York. We are a satellite upon the moon, upon the sun. Let's upgrade it to the largest celestial body. That is you guys in Miami. And what I come here to say is, yes, we have a great episode today with Dan and Mina. Yes, we had a great episode yesterday with Paul Feinbaum and the secret history of his collars and their criminal histories, which are both hilarious and profound.

[Roy Bellamy]

His collar.

[Amin Elhassan]

His collars.

[Roy Bellamy]

Oh, multiple different shirts. Got it.

[Amin Elhassan]

And they are not normal collars. Do not find a new slant. What I'm here to say is that it's a show that we really couldn't launch without Dan. And so when Dan talks about how much it costs, I reckon with that. That because the whole thing is that we make a show with ambition that is powered by people who otherwise are not getting paid. Like we are paying journalists to go report stories for us. We're trying to go to death row as well as trying to buy a sculpture of myself made out of butter. We're trying to do serious stuff and silly stuff. And I just want to say thank you legitimately because the premise of this company was we would get to make something from scratch that lived up to some amount of hype. And I am very proud that on some level we have done that. And it's really hard. And so thank you to Dan and to everybody in Miami for enabling the nonsense that I Know you guys like to make fun of, but deep down, I think you might like just like a library, you know, has some fun stuff in it too.

[Roy Bellamy]

And it only cost $242 million.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, this month, inflation adjusted.

[Dan LeBatard]

This month. You should have seen what I found out when I started looking at some of the numbers.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay, hold on. Just. By the way, just as an FYI, what I found out is that Dan should never be in a finance meeting.

[Dan LeBatard]

I shouldn't.

[Amin Elhassan]

Dan comes out of that thing and he's like, I got takes. I'm like, oh, God, no.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, God, no. I got. I come out of those things and I'm like, I got taken by everyone in our company. Everybody who wants. I just looked at some of those numbers. It's a dizzying array of. Following everybody's curiosities. Totally into an abyss.

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean, I said thank you, you.

[Stugotz]

Know, I just said it makes it okay.

[Dan LeBatard]

It does make it okay, actually, you know what that is? Happy holidays. Legitimately. Happy holidays. I said when you got on here. This is our last show of the year. We're going to celebrate in the club with an assortment of sounds from the year. But I am grateful for everyone here who has made this machine work, everyone on the other side. And we've got close to 50 employees. I don't know where it is, and a whole ton of contractors. It is.

[Roy Bellamy]

They all work for Pablo.

[Dan LeBatard]

It is a spaceship. Yes. We got a ton of contractors, most of whom work.

[Amin Elhassan]

Gotta get Mike. Mike, can we get Dan out of the meetings? Why is he in the meeting? I thought the whole thing was he shouldn't be in the meetings. And now he's in the meetings. At the end of the year, what are we?

[Stugotz]

Happy holidays. From our fam to yours. With special gratitude for our entire metal art crew.

[Dan LeBatard]

I groan and run my fingernails across his neck and he gasps a strangled moan. You're going to unman me, Anna. You take me. I sit down unto him, reveling in the fullness of my possession, reveling in his reaction, washing his unravel beneath me. I feel like a goddess. Touch me, please. I lean forward and steady myself with my hands on his chest. Come on, baby. I need this. Give it to me. And I explode, my body a slave to his and wrap myself around him, clinging to him like a vine as he crashes. Am I paying all these people Access with me then collapses, all of them pressing me into the mattress. Foreign.

[Stugotz]

It's Mike Ryan and I'm super excited to talk to you about Rhone. This is a great company. I was introduced to them a couple years ago. I thought everything that they made was super comfy and looked great. And now they're aboard and I'm wearing one of their shirts right now and I'm getting so many compliments on it. As seasons change, so should your wardrobe. Rhone's Commuter Collection combines comfort, versatility and breathability with premium pants, shirts, quarter zips, polos and blazers. Each piece is made from Ron's signature stretch fabrics with Ring Wrinkle Release and Anti Odor technology, keeping you fresh and polished all day with Gold Fusion Anti Odor Technology. Enjoy more wears between washes designed to coordinate effortlessly. And let us talk about the freshness because this is a big one, especially living down here in South Florida for me. They make it easy with machine washability and collars that maintain their shape for life. I cannot tell you how huge that is. The Commuter Collection's Wrinkle Release technology works as hard as you do, making every piece perfectly packable for trimming travel. The Commuter Collection can get you through any workday and straight into whatever comes next. Head to rhone.com dls and use a promo code dls to save 20 off your entire order. That's 20 off your entire order when you head to roan.com dls when you head to R-H-O-N-E.com dls and use code dls it's time to embody your most confident self.

[Mike Ryan]

Right now, my friends over at Simplisafe.

[Dan LeBatard]

Are extending their massive Black Friday deal.

[Mike Ryan]

For our Le Batard show listeners. Simplisafe is the home security I trust to keep my home and family safe. I've been telling you that for years. This is your last chance to protect your home at Simplisafe's lowest prices of the year. Simplisafe is a new way to protect your home that stops intruders before they break into your home. Old school systems only take action once someone is already inside your home. That's too late. Simplisafe's Active Guard Outdoor Protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only. You can take 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com DLB to claim your discount and make sure your home is safe.

[Dan LeBatard]

Safe this season.

[Mike Ryan]

Don't wait. This offer won't last long. Keep your home, your family and your peace of mind protected with Simplisafe. There's no safe like Simplisafe. Folks, listen up. Smirnoff knows there's no I in football.

[Pablo Torre]

Football's a we thing.

[Mike Ryan]

An experience that is best joined together with good drinks and good folks. Smirnoff is the world's number one vodka and is the official vodka partner of the NFL. And this year, there are more opportunities to watch football and make delicious, delicious Smirnoff cocktails than ever before. Over the holiday season, from Thanksgiving to Black Friday and Christmas, Smirnoff and the NFL are with you every step of the way. So this holiday season, when you're enjoying the game and your cocktails, please make sure you drink responsibly. Take a minute, make a plan, never drive impaired.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Smirnoff.

[Mike Ryan]

We do game days. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff number 21 vodka distilled from grain 40 alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please do not share with anyone under legal drinking age.

[Dan LeBatard]

Don LeBatard. But it's just his titties are sitting on the shelf that is his belly stugats.

[Stugotz]

He said titties, like, shocked me little bit. I wasn't quite prepared. For cities.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is the D? Ler show with the st. Now, I like these guys. I like their information. I really do. But you have to understand that there are a whole lot of people in sports who will look at these two guys, Jordan Brenner and Peter Keating, and say, what do these knobs and all their math and all their numbers and all their data, what are these. These knobs know about sports that they can tell me who our underdog values? We couldn't get Peter Keating to get his technology right last week. He was upside down, he was confused. His sound didn't work. What does he know about anything in sports? Well, I will tell you that these guys and Greg, Cody and Stugotz, every week around here, they're anti information. They're anti any new data. These guys for 20 years now, now have data to draw from and they believe in certain fundamental truths. So thank you again for being on with us. We will get to some of the things happening in sports in a moment. But, Jordan, if you can explain, basically, how do you feel about a whole lot of people in sports just saying, Shut up, nerds. You don't know anything with all your math.

[Pablo Torre]

I wish I were a better nerd, first of all, because half the time I'm relying on Peter for the math. I'm not doing the numbers myself. I'M just numerating it. So what I would say is this. First of all, in my case, I've been covering sports for 20 years. I talked to coaches, I played sports, whatever. So if you want to label me that way, weird outside person on Twitter, that's fine. But the. What I always say to this is people who are like, I don't like analytics. And then I'll say, okay, so how do you tell if a player is good? And they'll be like, well, at 40 home runs, I'm like, okay, you just use analytics. You're just not using the best number possible. So like the old motto of Faber college, knowledge is good.

[Mike Ryan]

I want to say I think there's something a little deeper going on that we should pay some respect to, which is that is that modern analytics have moved baseball away from base stealing, have moved football away from rushing, have moved basketball away from the inside game. A lot of people grew up where sports meant a lot more violence and physical contact and beat the hell out of the other guy. And over time, more information discovered other ways to defeat your opponents. There are people who just don't like that, people who don't like how thinking about these things and the kind of bruising competitions they're used to enjoying go together. But it's all just information. It all just makes us smarter. It all just makes it more fun.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, you're right.

[Mike Ryan]

You don't.

[Pablo Torre]

Baseball solved game, Peter. But unfortunately, in solving the game, it's less fun to watch.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's what I mean. That's what's happened. Right? The evolutions are such that I've. I'm watching my second baseman pull a card out of his pocket so he can stand in exactly the right place. And then I see a line drive hit there. Like you're making it so scientific that you are taking some of the joyous, joyous spontaneity out of it.

[Pablo Torre]

It's the, it is the eternal struggle that sports are facing right now. We know the optimal way to play, but the optimal way to win games may not be the optimal entertainment value. So, Dan, you're exactly right. How many times your brain is trained to see when a ball goes up the middle, you're expecting it to go all the way to the center fielder. And now we've learned how to shade that way. So we take away that hit and it's the same thing. Look, there's a reason why Adam Silver is suddenly discussing re refining the game a little bit. Because basketball has been largely solved through the incredibly complex equation that Three is worth more than two. So, you know, I, I get it, it and I don't get it if that makes any sense.

[Mike Ryan]

But I also, there's something a little more general to keep in mind that a way through this is to embrace the crazy, embrace the randomness. People want to ascribe events to reasons and character and moral turpitude. Sometimes shit just happens. I mean we, yeah, we've been studying college basketball for 20 years. The closest we've been able to get in explaining the variance and what happens in Earth is it's not anywhere close to 100%. So you can embrace the fact that crazy stuff happens, appreciate it doesn't have to be sustainable, and it still should be really enjoyable when unexpected things happen, even if it's a little more predictable. This interview is presented by Masterclass. Learn from the best to become YOUR best.

[Dan LeBatard]

Peter, can you tell me what you have seen in sports? That the math has changed more than the stupidity of holding. We were playing basketball the wrong way the entire time, trying to get the most contested two instead of the least contested three.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, the three point revolution, I mean, if that's, that's kind of the paragon example of, of how things have changed, sure. But you gotta remember sports can also legislate against too much change. I mean, baseball just passed rules against the shift and instituted a. You know, for 150 years, baseball intellectuals were writing that the great timeless thing about baseball was there's no clock. Well, well, they changed it and it kind of made things better. Right. So, you know, if we, we can all get together and decide if this is too much. You know, we don't have robot umpires yet. If we don't want robot umpires, nobody's going to force us to have robot umpires. We can all get together and decide this is too much change. Let's keep things a little more fun if we want to. Sports have done that too, and the.

[Pablo Torre]

NBA has done that before. Look, in the late 90s, early 2000s, the game had gotten really boring. I mean, we remember the, those, we wistfully remember those Heat Nick series, but it wasn't good basketball. It was just good drama. But the NBA had too many games that were 82 to 77 and they legislated a lot of the holding off the ball out of the game. And, and when Steve Nash was with Phoenix and the early days of, of Pace and Space and the early days of the warriors, it was a great blend. The game was way more exciting. It's probably tipped too far in the other direction. And then there are things you can do, whether it's move the three point line back or put some of the physicality back in the game to change the dynamic of what points are worth. And by the way, the one thing that's still worth a ton of value always and has been, is getting to the rim and getting to the free throw line.

[Dan LeBatard]

Guys, this is a little bit dry. The numbers are dry. Can we just do anything to make it a little more interesting in video, please? Mike, what do you have? You seem to be all excited here.

[Stugotz]

Well, I'm actually really loving this segment. And it sparked a side conversation continued from our conversation yesterday that Amin and I had where, okay, well, we all agree everyone knows something's wrong with basketball. The numbers indicate this. And true leadership pushes the sport along. So what can we find consensus on? Because, yes, three is bigger than two. We get that. Do we make the court bigger? Do we move the line back? And Amin had a very practical solution that I think you also kind of invoked a little bit here.

[Roy Bellamy]

Are you talking about the baseball theory? So, guys, so every baseball park, where's a home run line? Well, it's different in every park, right? So. So I came up with the suggestion the three point line should be home court dependent as well. So in Milwaukee, they might have it in the paint because their best player, their highest volume player is Giannis. He's going to hit a bunch of threes from right in front of the rim. Meanwhile, in Golden State, they're like, hey, we got the best shooters. Let's move it as far back as possible. Let's move back to 30ft or whatever. And so now you've got some variance, some strategy going, right? Hey, guys, are playing at Milwaukee to pound the paint. I don't want to see anybody standing outside. I want everyone inside the paint.

[Stugotz]

It also demands a lot from front offices, too, and how you build out your roster. You essentially have a division specialist because they have more mid range three pointers in this. I thought that was a very novel concept. What do you guys make of that?

[Mike Ryan]

I would love to see the unintended consequences. You know, when's the last time a baseball team actually succeeded when they tried to recruit a free agent because they said, oh, look, I'm going to ignore this video trickery. I just want everybody to know my hat's still pointing up. You know, often that doesn't work out, which just adds to the fun. Listen, I think if it's within certain bounds, you know, there are rules about how far the fences can be in baseball. You can't just do whatever you want. There's certain minimums and maximums that, that could be really interesting.

[Pablo Torre]

You know where would be a fun place to test this out is the completely boring and largely useless in season tournament. So make that. Yeah, change up the rules for that one.

[Amin Elhassan]

Whoa.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, I mean, he's blasphemed against the NBA cup, by the way. I mean, I mean, I mean, he's.

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah. No, look, man, the NBA cup is not for any of us. It's for children. It's for people who are 10 years old who are watching this and seeing guys celebrate and be happy. And then 10 years from now, when they're in the league, that becomes a point of emphasis. I want to win MVP. I want to win Finals MVP. I want to win NBA Cup MVP.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're finding yourself, give the take, that LeBron James and Giannis have now won and cared about this tournament, and therefore this will be a requirement for future greatness. That's ridiculous.

[Roy Bellamy]

It's not. Because the example those guys set, those are guys that a bunch of kids grow up wearing their sneakers, buying their jerseys, idolizing them. Those kids one day will be in the NBA and they'll say, I want to do everything that my idol did. Look, Dan, how do we get to a place where you got kids saying Paul George is the greatest player of all time? Because 10, 11 years ago, these were the kids who were like, I don't like LeBron, who's in his way. That guy, he's really good. And that's how you get kids grow up saying, Paul George is the greatest player of all time. And those kids are in the NBA now. So if you're telling me that a kid can grow up thinking Paul George is the goat, they're not going to grow up thinking that the NBA cup is something worth winning.

[Dan LeBatard]

Guys, before you get out of here again, Jordan Brenner and Peter Keating, the Underdogs is the name of the podcast. We are out of time. But your Underdogs of the Year, that episode that you're doing, what are the highlights so people can go get it over there? Because we've run out of time here and I didn't even leave enough to actually get into that as subject matter.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, we'll just have to come back then, Dan. But the. That show drops next week. It's a two part episode. We got a lot of Olympics sprinkled in, a couple big college football upsets. But I think there could be some debate and how high we have some of those Olympic events and unless you.

[Mike Ryan]

Really like bicycling and no, no Florida Panthers. Because we decided, because we are. We, we do a lot of analytics work. We decided Connor McDavid wasn't overrated.

[Dan LeBatard]

Ah, there. Okay. We'll get you on to argue with Greg Cody then. And I think he would have the winning argument. Thank you gentlemen. Appreciate the time.

[Pablo Torre]

Thanks, Dan.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you. Happy New Year.

[Dan LeBatard]

Likewise.

[Stugotz]

Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan. The holiday season is upon us. Christmas is coming next week. So what are you doing for it? I imagine you're gonna have some family over. How do you entertain the family? How do you keep everything, everybody happy? Well, I know one easy way. Make your holiday time Miller time. Bring out a nice silver platter of that beautiful white can or bottle, whatever your preference. Heck, do it on draft. As long as it's got that beautiful amber color and was triple hops brewed, you know it's going to be a hit. Why? Because Miller Lite has tastes you know you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks, just great beer for people who like beer. You'll take a sip, look around, see your family and know you immediately make made the best decision possible. Because Miller Lite is brewed for taste, it hits different than other light beers. Simple ingredients like malted barley for rich balanced toffee note flavors and the iconic golden color. The original light beer since 1975 and still the best one. Making memories at year end gatherings. Tastes like Miller time. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs. Carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.

[Mike Ryan]

This holiday at T Mobile I'm joined by a special co anchor.

[Andrew Hawkins]

What up everybody? It's your boy Big Snoop.

[Roy Bellamy]

Do double G. Snoop.

[Mike Ryan]

Let's talk about T Mobile.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Okay, cool.

[Mike Ryan]

This holiday get four lines for 25 bucks a line plus four iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence and the all new camera control on us.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Let's get cracking.

[Mike Ryan]

Like a breakfast egg.

[Dan LeBatard]

You can use those eggs to make some eggnogs. Snoop.

[Mike Ryan]

Respect and people do love T Mobile where you can save on every plan versus the other big guys. When you switch, you know y'all can.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Take some of those sa some Snoop merchandise.

[Mike Ryan]

Always a great stocking stuffer.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Snoop and we up out of here.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hold your horses, Snoop Dogg.

[Mike Ryan]

Let's remind people one more time head.

[Andrew Hawkins]

To t mobile.com and get four iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence on us plus four lines for 25 bucks.

[Mike Ryan]

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