The Big Suey: Gotcha Journalism with Ryan Blaney

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: Gotcha Journalism with Ryan Blaney

Episode Details

• Title: The Big Suey: Gotcha Journalism with Ryan Blaney
• Hosts: Dan LeBatard, Stugotz
• Guest: Ryan Blaney (NASCAR Driver)
• Release Date: May 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, the hosts dive deep into the realms of sports journalism and NASCAR racing, featuring a special guest appearance by renowned NASCAR driver Ryan Blaney. From contentious discussions about journalism integrity to the intricacies of racing and NBA playoff analyses, the episode offers a dynamic and engaging exploration of various sports topics.

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Journalism and Sam Bennett’s NHL Suspension

Timestamp: 00:51 - 07:35

The episode kicks off with a heated discussion surrounding Sam Bennett, an NHL player whose potential suspension has sparked debates among sports journalists. Amin Elhassan provides updates, stating, "Multiple NHL insiders, including lead NHL insider for the Athletic, are reporting that it's not expected that Sam Bennett faces any discipline" [00:52]. This assertion leads to a back-and-forth between Dan LeBatard and Jonathan Zaslow about the credibility and sources of such reports.

Key Points:

• Credibility of Reports: Dan emphasizes his role as a journalist, asserting, "I am reporting that Sam Bennett will not be suspended and won't even have a disciplinary hearing with the NHL because it's a waste of everyone's time" [02:44].
• Differing Views on Opinion vs. Report: Zaslow challenges Dan’s statement, questioning the basis of his report, while Dan maintains his stance without disclosing sources.
• Role of Journalism: The conversation highlights the tension between opinion and factual reporting in sports journalism, with Stugotz noting, "Information is currency" and praising Zaslow’s knack for breaking news [03:08].

Notable Quotes:

• Dan LeBatard: "I reported like 25 minutes ago that Sam Bennett will not be suspended." [02:25]
• Stugotz: "Information is currency. You see what's happening with Adam Schefter?" [03:19]

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Guest Interview: Ryan Blaney on NASCAR and Miami Championship

Timestamp: 08:00 - 25:29

The episode transitions to a guest interview with Ryan Blaney, a prominent figure in NASCAR. The discussion covers various aspects of racing, team dynamics, and the exciting news about the upcoming NASCAR championship race moving to Miami.

Key Points:

• Team Communication: Blaney discusses his preference for minimal communication during races to maintain focus, stating, "Sometimes I feel like I've kind of always been one that prefers silence over too much talking" [10:06].
• Racing Challenges: He elaborates on the difficulties of racing at venues like Texas Motor Speedway, criticizing its design and impact on race dynamics [12:16].
• Championship Race Move: Blaney announces the relocation of the NASCAR championship weekend to Miami Speedway for 2026, expressing excitement about the event's return to Miami [25:19].

Notable Quotes:

• Ryan Blaney: "What if they will not be suspended?" [05:05]
• Greg Cody: "The championship race is coming home. ... officially it's out there." [25:19]

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Cheating and Performance Enhancers in NASCAR

Timestamp: 17:10 - 21:14

The conversation shifts to the controversial topic of cheating and the use of performance enhancers in NASCAR. The hosts probe Blaney on the prevalence of rule-bending within the sport and its implications.

Key Points:

• Prevalence of Cheating: Blaney acknowledges that cheating is rampant in NASCAR, stating, "Everyone is cheating. Rulebook, not you. But everyone is not" [17:20].
• Steroid Use: A humorous yet pointed exchange ensues about the hypothetical use of steroids among drivers, with Greg Cody firmly rejecting the idea, "I would never do that stuff" [18:21].
• Impact on Performance: The discussion delves into whether performance enhancers offer any tangible benefits for drivers, concluding that their utility is questionable in the context of racing [20:26].

Notable Quotes:

• Greg Cody: "I would never do that stuff." [18:21]
• Ryan Blaney: "Everyone is cheating." [17:20]

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Analysis of NASCAR's Competitive Integrity

Timestamp: 21:14 - 26:03

Furthering the discussion on competition integrity, the hosts and Blaney analyze the structural and regulatory aspects of NASCAR that facilitate or hinder fair play.

Key Points:

• Gray Areas in Rules: Cody points out the extensive gray areas in NASCAR rules, leading teams to continuously seek advantages within permissible boundaries [17:21].
• Role of Regulations: They discuss how strict regulations and multiple checks aim to curb cheating, although the effectiveness remains debated [17:35].
• Driver’s Perspective: Blaney emphasizes that while teams might push the limits, it doesn't necessarily translate into unfair advantages, promoting a culture of competitiveness [17:48].

Notable Quotes:

• Greg Cody: "Everyone does double down part of it." [17:48]
• Stugotz: "Everyone's a cheater. That's just journalism, Billy. Good journalism." [17:29]

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Delving into Race Dynamics and Team Strategies

Timestamp: 14:21 - 20:28

The episode explores the nuances of race car setup and the strategic decisions teams make to optimize performance on the track.

Key Points:

• Car Performance: Blaney discusses how teams tweak various components of their cars to gain marginal gains, highlighting the technical challenges in racing [17:20].
• Team Dynamics: The importance of cohesion and communication within the team is emphasized, with Blaney noting that "everything is about what can we do better" [33:37].
• Future of Racing: The conversation touches on upcoming technologies and strategies that might shape the future of NASCAR racing [18:50].

Notable Quotes:

• Greg Cody: "So if you want to say a lightning strike and I get struck by lightning, then I think you're the say all end all, you know, and you can." [14:21]
• Ryan Blaney: "You have to give Coach Adelman credit for fostering that environment." [38:51]

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NBA Playoffs Analysis

Timestamp: 25:29 - 43:55

Transitioning from NASCAR, the hosts and guests delve into a comprehensive analysis of recent NBA playoff games, highlighting standout performances and strategic maneuvers.

Key Points:

• Underdog Victories: Highlighting the remarkable wins by NBA underdogs, Billy Gill remarks on the rarity of two underdogs winning outright on the same day in the playoffs [31:45].
• Key Plays: The episode dissects pivotal moments, such as Russell Westbrook's clutch pass to Aaron Gordon, which defied expectations and earned standing ovations [36:02].
• Team Strategies: Discussions revolve around coaching decisions, player performances, and the evolving dynamics of playoff basketball [35:49].

Notable Quotes:

• Billy Gill: "Two NBA underdogs of nine plus points won outright on the same day in the playoffs for the first time in the last 25 years tonight." [31:45]
• Dan LeBatard: "Westbrook making that pass to Gordon at Oklahoma City. ... the only fan base that actually loves him." [36:02]
• Billy Gill: "What would have happened... Nuggets." [33:58]

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Conclusion: Reflections and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: 43:55 - End

As the episode nears its conclusion, the hosts reflect on the discussions held, emphasizing the complexities of sports journalism, the relentless pursuit of excellence in NASCAR, and the unpredictability of playoff basketball.

Key Points:

• Future Episodes: Stugotz hints at revisiting the journalism debate and further exploring the intersection between sports and media [06:30].
• Community Engagement: The hosts express appreciation for their audience, acknowledging the diverse interests that make the show vibrant and engaging [25:19].
• Final Reflections: The episode wraps up with a nod to the importance of integrity in sports and the ever-evolving nature of competition [43:55].

Notable Quotes:

• Stugotz: "I'm stunned that Amin is sitting here and not crying foul." [42:27]
• Dan LeBatard: "That's a crazy thing when people say, oh, home court." [43:31]

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Key Takeaways

1. Journalistic Integrity: The episode underscores the ongoing tension between opinion and factual reporting in sports journalism, highlighting the responsibility of journalists to maintain credibility.
2. NASCAR Insights: Ryan Blaney provides an insider’s perspective on the challenges of racing, team communication, and the complexities of maintaining competitive integrity within NASCAR.
3. NBA Playoffs Dynamics: A thorough analysis of recent NBA playoff games reveals the unpredictability and strategic depth of high-stakes basketball.
4. Community and Engagement: The show fosters a sense of community among sports enthusiasts, encouraging lively debates and multifaceted discussions on various sports topics.

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Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Amin Elhassan (00:51): "Multiple NHL insiders, including lead NHL insider for the Athletic, are reporting that it's not expected that Sam Bennett faces any discipline."
• Dan LeBatard (02:25): "I am reporting that Sam Bennett will not be suspended and won't even have a disciplinary hearing with the NHL because it's a waste of everyone's time."
• Stugotz (03:19): "Information is currency. You see what's happening with Adam Schefter?"
• Greg Cody (10:06): "Only do anything on your own."
• Ryan Blaney (17:20): "Everyone is cheating."
• Greg Cody (18:21): "I would never do that stuff."
• Billy Gill (31:45): "Two NBA underdogs of nine plus points won outright on the same day in the playoffs for the first time in the last 25 years tonight."
• Dan LeBatard (36:02): "Westbrook making that pass to Gordon at Oklahoma City... the only fan base that actually loves him."
• Stugotz (43:55): "I'm stunned that Amin is sitting here and not crying foul."

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Final Remarks

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz offers a multifaceted exploration of sports journalism, NASCAR racing, and NBA play-offs, enriched by candid discussions and expert insights from guest Ryan Blaney. Whether you're a dedicated sports fan or new to the show's dynamic, this episode provides valuable perspectives and engaging commentary on the ever-evolving landscape of sports.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[Stugotz]

Why are you listening to this show.

[Greg Cody]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Greg Cody]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Stugotz]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it.

[Greg Cody]

And now here's the marching man to.

[Billy Gill]

Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Mike Ryan]

This episode is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Stugotz]

Greg Cody, are you ready to go? Your headset is not on.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I am ready.

[Stugotz]

What are you doing? You seem very busy here. We've got.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Researching.

[Stugotz]

You were researching?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Did you find out things that will be useful on the program?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I am preparing, yes.

[Stugotz]

Okay.

[Amin Elhassan]

We do have an update.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Due diligence.

[Amin Elhassan]

We do have an update. Multiple NHL insiders, including lead NHL insider for the Athletic, are reporting that it's not expected that Sam Bennett faces any discipline.

[Ryan Blaney]

Oh, wow.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, I just said it.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, Zaz reported it.

[Stugotz]

That's breaking news.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Report it.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, that's breaking news.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm a journalist and I also let you guys know I'm a judge and I told you that.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay, Can I make one thing clear? These are not. These are not reports saying he will not be suspended.

[Amin Elhassan]

I will read you the reports. It's Emily Kaplan, very people.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That was not a report either. What she said.

[Stugotz]

Hold on, just. Mike, Mike, I need to. Please, if you don't mind. Okay. Because the tension between Cody and Zaslo and real is real. And where they identify as journalists, it's real. Greg Cody is going to be proven to be instantaneously wrong in his opinion that Sam Bennett will be suspended and therefore he's going to ask follow up questions so he can be less wrong.

[Amin Elhassan]

So the first report from Emily Kaplan, she goes out of her way to say nothing confirmed yet, so it feels more like an opinion. But I don't believe Sam Bennett will receive supplemental discipline for his contact with Anthony Solars in game one.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

However, you don't believe, how about telling us when you know?

[Dan LeBatard]

However, why do we keep skipping over things that are believed and things that are opinions? When I reported, I reported. It was like 30 minutes ago.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Your honor.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hold on a second. Hold on a second. If you reported something, do you think I would have the gall to say based on what or I would trust your sources? As a journalist?

[Stugotz]

No.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's very insulting. I reported like 25 minutes ago that Sam Bennett will not be suspended. And I also reported there won't even be a hearing. So what are we still doing?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You reported that based on what, though?

[Dan LeBatard]

Hold on a second. I just told you. I would never tell you my sources.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I would never even quote a source.

[Stugotz]

He broke that news, Greg. That happened on the show when you were trying to figure out what the sound was on your computer.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah, that's my report. That's already been exposed as a fraud, Greg.

[Stugotz]

When it was exposed on a fraud, I just lit up. The video department just went in there in a rage because I'm like, please tell me you got the spit take in the kitchen. That I did. And all they got was that I was cleaning up the coffee.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Oh, boy.

[Stugotz]

Because when they got you on that, on that prank, an excellent prank, I did a spit take. That spit coffee cartoonishly all over the kitchen. I made a substantive mess.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Did you clean it up?

[Stugotz]

I. Yeah, that's what they got. They got the picture of me cleaning it up.

[Amin Elhassan]

This one's a little bit stronger. From Chris Johnston of the Athletics. And Bennett is not expected to face any supplemental discipline for his hit on Anthony Stallars during last night's game, per sources.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Not expected?

[Mike Ryan]

Is that a report?

[Amin Elhassan]

That is.

[Mike Ryan]

He cites sources reporting on his sources.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay. The sources are telling him we don't expect him to be suspended, which is something. What if they will not be suspended?

[Mike Ryan]

What if they.

[Dan LeBatard]

Again, though, that report right there, that's a journalist just like me. All right? That guy is saying not expected, right? I've already told you, it's not happening.

[Stugotz]

Information, people are valuable. Information is currency. You see what's happening with Adam Schefter? What? You laugh. Zaslo's to news first. It's why he's a rising star at espn. And I'd argue. I'd argue a rising star in the journalism business because he breaks news like that. Thirty minutes ago, he told you.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't know why you're laughing. I mean, that feels insulting. I don't know what you're doing there.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'll give. I'll give you. I'll give you an example. It was widely reported that the championship race was coming back to Homestead for the NASCAR Cup Series, but it was only until this morning, eight minutes ago, where it's been finally confirmed by espn. That's not good enough for me. We're have Ryan Blaney on in a couple minutes. I'm going to ask him directly to further confirm what's been Talked about openly.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Sure.

[Dan LeBatard]

As a journalist. When we find out later in the day, like the NHL announces there will be. Cuz you know, the NHL announces there will be no disciplinary action. Not even hearing for Sam Bennett. It's also gonna say on television, on ESPN, as first reported by Jonathan Zaslow on the Dan LeBatard Show. Cuz as a journalist, you give credit to other journalists.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I'll give you that $100 bill I didn't have to give Dan. If ESPN reports that you broke that.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I don't have control of that, but that would be bad journalism. If I don't get credit, I don't control what other people do.

[Stugotz]

ESPN famously doesn't credit people all of the time. They have to give Zaslow credit for it to be a breaking report that you respect.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

And. And by the way, the way that.

[Stugotz]

Can you answer my question? I know you wanted to make your own point about the NHL.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

He didn't make a report. Yes, he gave his opinion.

[Dan LeBatard]

Should I do it again? I'll do it again.

[Stugotz]

He made a report.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

There wouldn't even be an opinion.

[Stugotz]

There wouldn't even be.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Just like I gave an opinion that.

[Amin Elhassan]

He would be gaslighting you.

[Dan LeBatard]

Should we clarify? I could do it again right now, just everybody's ears are open and go.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Ahead, do it again.

[Dan LeBatard]

I am reporting which. Which is that my camera. I am reporting my opinion.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I am reporting.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Stugotz]

That's.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's your report. That's your report. My report is that Sam Bennett will not be suspended and won't even have a disciplinary hearing with the NHL because it's a waste of everyone's time. I am reporting that. So when it is confirmed by the league later on today, Zaslo had it first.

[Stugotz]

It's indisputable. Everyone heard it live. We were first to this.

[Billy Gill]

I'm still gaslighting first of all, the.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Way the NHL usually works is that if he's not suspended, they're not going to report. He is not being suspended. If he were being suspended, that is something they would.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't have control over that.

[Stugotz]

We will get back to this, I'm sure, many times over, because these two do not think of journalism the same.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

But I don't call it a report when I'm just giving my opinion. I didn't report.

[Dan LeBatard]

That wasn't my opinion. That was my opinion.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I didn't.

[Stugotz]

He reported. He reported it correctly.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay, he got it.

[Billy Gill]

He got it.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Hadn't been announced yet. It had not known yet.

[Stugotz]

It will be known. And you will be instantaneously wrong because you didn't believe his report like it wasn't a report.

[Dan LeBatard]

Let me explain to you the difference between a report and opinion. Let me explain journalism.

[Billy Gill]

Can you explain what a gaslight is?

[Dan LeBatard]

First, journalism, Right here. My opinion is that he should not be suspended. That's an opinion.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay?

[Dan LeBatard]

I learned that in journalism school, University of Florida. My report is that he will not be suspended and there won't even be a hearing.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay, Based on.

[Dan LeBatard]

Based on my sources.

[Stugotz]

That's where he's got you.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay, but. But in journalism, if you go on site, a source go on. Even if you don't name him or her.

[Dan LeBatard]

I would never do that.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Right, of course, because you're a journalist.

[Dan LeBatard]

Or go to prison before I name.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Census, but it's still. Usually it's de rigor in journalism.

[Dan LeBatard]

And now you're using words I don't understand.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

When you're citing.

[Amin Elhassan]

You went to Santa Fe.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

When you're citing a source, generally, you say a source within the NHL front office or you say a Panther source. You. You cite someone.

[Dan LeBatard]

I do things differently.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Okay, that's fine. And by the way, I want to make it clear I have no vested interest in this. I'm fine. If Sam Bennett doesn't get suspended, more power to him.

[Ryan Blaney]

Sounds like this is a house money game for Bennett.

[Greg Cody]

Right?

[Ryan Blaney]

Like, you just do whatever he wants. He should be suspended, like, go crazy.

[Greg Cody]

Right?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You know, if he throws an elbow at the other goalie and he doesn't get suspended, more power to him.

[Stugotz]

Ryan Blaney is joining us now. I'm sorry that happened to you. I mean, I'm sorry.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

What happened.

[Stugotz]

I want to hug him. He had a very small window to do something there. I am now officially. And our show is officially friends with Ryan Blaney because we are now into racing. It's been fairly shocking. I gotta be.

[Mike Ryan]

I've been into racing for a long time.

[Stugotz]

We have been race.

[Mike Ryan]

It was a race joke. You've been into racing for a long time.

[Stugotz]

Okay, thank you. You think that Ryan Blaney got that, or you think that's for you? Okay, thank you, but we're onboarding a guest here. I appreciate you making a private joke about race.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

All aboard.

[Stugotz]

But all aboard is what you just said.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Onboarding. I'm like, all aboard. Ryan Blaney stepping onto the SS Levitard.

[Amin Elhassan]

He really deserves a better intro.

[Stugotz]

The Cody's, ladies and gentlemen. They're sore from dancing this weekend. I've got a heavy tongue. Producer Ryan Blaney do you ever have a family around you that you've been carrying in your economy that burdens you every day?

[Greg Cody]

Well, thanks for having me, guys. That's a heck of an intro. I appreciate it back on the show. Thanks again for having me. No, luckily, I have not had a family member who has burdened me too much.

[Stugotz]

Okay, I. Go ahead.

[Dan LeBatard]

Do you ever find any of the guys on your team, they talk too much in your ear while you're just trying to concentrate on racing?

[Greg Cody]

You know, sometimes I feel like I've kind of always been one that prefers silence over too much talking. I like communication when it's helpful, but sometimes it's just talking, just to talk. But, no, I'm not going to call anybody out. But I think we've all had that to where it's like, what's the point of this conversation going? And are you just saying words just to say them? But luckily, I don't have to deal with that.

[Stugotz]

Hold on. So you're telling me that your communication with your team is such in the panic and the heat of all these moments and you need silence that you've never in all of your life led your team by yelling back, hey, somebody.

[Chris Cote]

Shut.

[Stugotz]

Shut up. I don't shut up. Somebody's talking too much. Shut up.

[Greg Cody]

I won't say. I don't go about it in that way. I just. I think I just say, like, less talking, and that's. That's really all. And then it gets resolved.

[Amin Elhassan]

So the last.

[Greg Cody]

You never want to yell at anybody, right? I mean, you're all out of group, and you, you know, it's just like, all right, less talking, and then we can go off.

[Amin Elhassan]

The last time we spoke, it was before Homestead, and I asked you, do you think a meteor is going to strike your car? And you said something to the effect of, well, I don't think I'd be that surprised. The way that the season's going, you were running a great race at Homestead, and then your car just blew up when you were leading the pack, and since then, your luck has somehow got worse. So, Ryan Blaney, same question for Kansas this weekend. Are you going to get struck by a meteor?

[Greg Cody]

You know what I think? You know, I was watching the replay from Homestead, and, I mean, call me crazy, I feel like a meteor went through our grill and hit the radiator and made the car blow up. So I think you spoke that one into existence. So if you want to say a lightning strike and I get struck by lightning, then I think you're the say all end all, you know, and you can. You can pretty much judge the future, but hopefully it gets a little better. It's gotten a little bit better, which is nice. We've been able to actually finish some races, so that's good. So it's a start. Hopefully that continues.

[Amin Elhassan]

You were really hard on yourself because it does feel like the pendulum's swinging a little bit in your favor. But Texas Motor Speedway, a lot of people are talking about that track, that it's terrible. There were cars just spinning out because they were just driving, and you had single car accidents, and it was just such a random race. You were highly critical of Texas Motor Speedway, saying it's probably the worst track. How do you. When you're going through such a difficult stretch and there are certain things that are out of your control and you start going the way. When things start trending a little bit more positive in your mind, are you kind of thinking, well, what can possibly go wrong now?

[Greg Cody]

I try not to think that way. Like, what can go wrong next? I really try not to be that way, but it always is, like, in the back of your head, right? Like, all right, what's next? You know, like, we got the. Nothing really can seem to go right and what's going to happen next? But I try not to be that way, but it's hard not to sometimes. But, yeah, Texas, you know, this past weekend was. That place is tough, man. It's. They repaved it, you know, about, I think, like 2017 and just the surface, you know, with racetracks, like, when you repave, the racetrack takes a while to kind of age to where you can race on it competitively, like, at the speeds we are to get the track wide, it just is tough to do. And that place just has not aged. So it's just kind of a single lane, maybe two lanes, and if you step, you know, a foot, you're. You're wrecking. And it's just a hard place to race and pass. I think that's what kind of gets drivers frustrated when there's nowhere to go and move around. And, you know, drivers get frustrated by it. The fans, obviously, it's not a good show for the fans to watch, so hopefully they can figure something out for that place to make it a little bit better, because it needs something done to it.

[Stugotz]

Ryan, if I could get a little more help from you to make this just a little bit newsier, can you just follow me down this path and not think it got your journalism? Has Ryan Blaney ever said when talking back to his crew, you know, and saying, less talking, less talking. Does it ever. Is it more often than not, less talking, Carl? Like, it's one that. It's one guy and it's not all of them. It's. It's one guy on your team, and it's always Carl, man, you're hung up.

[Greg Cody]

On this one, you know? No, it's not just one guy, you know, it could be multiple.

[Stugotz]

It's unfortunate, you know, but I know.

[Greg Cody]

You'Re trying to get.

[Stugotz]

No, I just thought. I just want. No, no. I don't even know if you have a Carl. I'm not trying to get you to get anybody. But when you talk about things happening, you happening to your car, do you have a worst ever experience in your car?

[Greg Cody]

I mean, when they catch on fire, it's not fun. That sometimes happens. So that's probably the worst. I mean, you know, we wreck and stuff, and some wrecks are harder than others, but like, fire, I think, right. Everyone is afraid of it. It's nothing you can really do about it, except for get away from it as soon as you can. And it kind of takes us a while to get out of the car, get stopped. And so that's the worst case scenario is catching on fire. And. And then just. It kind of goes into panic mode. But, yeah, that's. That's something we try to avoid.

[Ryan Blaney]

I know that you, Ryan, are probably very excited about the Netflix series coming out. So when you watch it back, is there any moments that you think back and you're like, man, I wonder if Carl said this about me behind the scenes. And I really want to watch Netflix to see the real story of what went on that day. And, like, do you think you're gonna catch anyone in anything? Have you been anticipating any moments? You're like, I wonder what really happened there. Let me see if I can catch them in something?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'm excited for that to come out. You know, it comes out tomorrow, you know, May 7th and season two. It's going to be really fun. I've seen little bits of it. I didn't want to watch the whole thing yet before it came out, but yeah, I mean, I know the stuff that I was in, right. I was there for it, and I know kind of how all that went. But other guys, like, they interview other drivers or things like that I am curious about, you know, how do they think of a certain situation that they were in, you know, whether I'm involved in it or not. Like, I wonder kind of how they thought about that. So I am curious to see from that side because I don't know what anyone else is thinking and you never know what's going to come out. But the bits I've seen, it's really, really good. I know people like the first season and I think this one was even better from the clips I've seen of it. So, yeah, they did a good job. I appreciate Netflix for doing that and showing like an inside look of the drivers, the teams, the week to week stuff, the highs and the lows of the sport. That's always interesting for people to see and, you know, you've seen it a lot with other sports. You know, from the quarterback, show, receiver, full swing. You know, I think it's. You got to give people more and more of like showing a little bit more behind the scenes and I think this show definitely does that.

[Ryan Blaney]

I would never. You're an honest man, obviously, a very honest man. You're on the up and up. You would never do anything to skirt the rules in nascar. But nascar, notoriously, teams try to get around the rules a little bit. Right, which is why you guys have so many different checks on the different cars. And even after you check the car, maybe you go and like, oh, well, let me see if we can tweak this, tweak that, kind of get around the rules. I wouldn't call you a cheater. You're not. You're an honest man. But those dirty rider cheaters that you race against, I mean, they're. They're up to something. You think watching this show, you're gonna be able to find out maybe some, some tricks of the trade, maybe some things that they're doing to their cars that you can implement on your cars, or is it not helpful in that way?

[Greg Cody]

You know, nascar and honestly, motorsports in general is a unique sport from that regard. Like the gray area.

[Ryan Blaney]

You're all cheating. Rulebook, not you. But everyone is not.

[Greg Cody]

Right? Everyone.

[Stugotz]

Everyone is. There it is. That's what I was looking for. Everyone is.

[Greg Cody]

I mean, that's what everyone's. Everyone does.

[Stugotz]

Everyone's a cheater.

[Greg Cody]

If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

[Stugotz]

That's just journalism, Billy. Good journalism.

[Greg Cody]

He said it's only cheating if you get caught. Yeah, you know, I mean, that's the thing. And it's different than other sports, right? Like, you know, there's controversy in, you know, other sports. What is like in the rule book or not or what's in that gray area. Our sport just has a bigger gray area because the cars, there's so many things on them that there's only so many rules, and everyone always tries to manipulate, you know, little things. But I'll tell you, to answer your question on if I would learn something from watching the show on that regard. No, if you're pushing the gray area, there's no cameras around. They're not going to film that. So that stuff gets done in a dark room in the back of race shops, and no one ever knows about it but those that team.

[Ryan Blaney]

Have you ever considered taking steroids?

[Greg Cody]

No, that would not help me at all.

[Ryan Blaney]

I mean, aesthetically, like, for appearance.

[Stugotz]

What do you mean? You'd be.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, I would. I would love to break out and, you know.

[Stugotz]

What do you mean?

[Greg Cody]

I think if I. If I. I think everyone would know something's up. Dude, I. I'm a tiny guy. I walk around, like, a buck 40, and if I all of a sudden showed up weighing, like, 170, 180, just. Just juice to the gills, I think people would know what's up. So, no, I would not. I would not do that stuff.

[Billy Gill]

But would that be a problem?

[Greg Cody]

Give me a competitive advantage.

[Dan LeBatard]

But would that be a problem? Like, who cares if they notice that you're looking kind of jacked? Who cares?

[Greg Cody]

I do.

[Stugotz]

You might care.

[Greg Cody]

I don't want to be pumping that stuff in me.

[Stugotz]

All right, well, you might, and that might be for health reasons, or you might not care about the look of someone cheating by using steroids, but I would like everyone at ESPN and Fox and everywhere else to grab the sound of Ryan Blaney. We got the gotcha journalism. It was from the journalist Billy Gill that got him to say it. Ryan Blaney, as Miami Homestead comes to town and he's bringing the whole. As this whole thing comes to Miami.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, next year for the championship race, Ryan Blaney, we need him to confirm those reports, though.

[Stugotz]

We'll get to that in a second. But Ryan Blaney, before he does that, has said everyone in his sport is cheating. That's news.

[Greg Cody]

Hey, man, everyone does. Everybody does double down part of it.

[Amin Elhassan]

What would be the advantage of juicing? And what if that's not really a competitive advantage? What is considered a competitive performance enhancer in nascar, other than what you can do to the car? Like, do you have a double shot espresso? And then that makes you, like, too rowdy? Like, how would you actually improve the driver's performance with something foreign?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, and that's a good question. Like, I really don't know. Yeah, maybe I Guess.

[Dan LeBatard]

Try that.

[Amin Elhassan]

But Lasik, like, would Lasik be one?

[Greg Cody]

Lasik lie. Surgery. I mean, gosh, I. But that's.

[Amin Elhassan]

It.

[Greg Cody]

That's not, like, illegal, you know, you could do that.

[Amin Elhassan]

It could have been one day, right?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, it could have been. But, no, I. I really don't know. Like, I mean, getting bigger and stronger is like. As opposed to, like, you know, when the steroid thing was big in baseball, you know, it helped those guys do what they need to do at the plate, you know, and that was beneficial for their job. But, like, being big and strong is not as much of a. It doesn't really help you any. Driving a race car. Like, you know, we work on different parts of our body to be efficient in the car. Like, you know, a lot of heat trading and, you know, stamina, stuff like that. Controlling heart rate, like, so being, like, muscular and big, it wouldn't really help. So I really don't know. Like you said, lasik might be P1, and maybe I get. My eyes get worse every year, so I might have to jump on that train at some point.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Brian, we just had the Miami Grand Prix down here. How would you describe the relationship between Your sport and F1 and why? Is NASCAR better?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, I mean, hey, as a racer, I'm a fan of all types of motorsports. Like, I watch F1. I watch motocross, Indycars, dirt sprint cars. Like, I just like racing. And for some reason, like, it's a. Like, some fans across the country and world, like, they. They butt heads when it comes to, like, oh, this is superior. I hate this other form of racing. It's like, well, to me, if you're a fan of motorsports, you're a fan of motorsports. I mean, I'm biased that I think we put on better races as far as, like, passing competitive cars each week. F1 is spectacular from the engineering side. You know, the drivers are amazing. I just. I wish F1 was a little bit more competitive on the. You know, you see more passes, you see a little bit different variation of winners. I wish that. I wish F1 was a little bit different in that regard, but I respect the hell out of it and those guys that do it. But I just think we. We have a little bit more dynamic as far as the race ability and the excitement of cars passing each other and battles and different winners. I think that's. I think people like to see that.

[Ryan Blaney]

I don't like this. I mean, I like you, Ryan. You seem like a nice guy, but I don't like this. We're trying to make you the bad boy of motorsports here. And you're complimenting F1. I mean, it's very easy. Take them out. Hey, F1. You drove 57 laps. That's a joke. Like, 57 laps. Get out of here. F1. Trying to get you on steroids. You don't want to take steroids. You have your foundation that helps people. Like, what's your deal, guy? Like, come on.

[Stugotz]

Come on.

[Ryan Blaney]

Ever heard of the intimidator Dale Earnhardt? Like, come on, let's start scaring people now.

[Stugotz]

You can't be those.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, I'll just. I'm sorry. I'm not a dick. I just, I can't do it, man.

[Ryan Blaney]

You curse. That's a start. We're getting there.

[Stugotz]

There it is. You know what?

[Chris Cote]

Gone.

[Greg Cody]

Ryan, Ryan, Ryan.

[Ryan Blaney]

What's your favorite curse word?

[Greg Cody]

Oh, man. Can I say anything on your show?

[Ryan Blaney]

Anything you want.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, your favorite.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think it's hard to beat.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Greg Cody]

There's so many different variations you can use.

[Ryan Blaney]

What's your favorite? What's your favorite? How do you say it?

[Greg Cody]

Hey, man, I'm only gonna say it one.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Come on.

[Greg Cody]

All right.

[Amin Elhassan]

Shut the up.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, you can shut the f up. Mother effer is probably a pretty good one.

[Amin Elhassan]

We like it.

[Greg Cody]

That kind of cut to the core.

[Ryan Blaney]

Too far, too far, too far. Come on, Ryan.

[Greg Cody]

Right?

[Ryan Blaney]

Scale it back.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, you're not the.

[Greg Cody]

Sorry. Sorry.

[Amin Elhassan]

You're considered one of the good guys of racing. There are bad boys of racing, and to your point, about, like, performance enhancers. Denny Hamlin basically called Kyle Busch fat and out of shape by saying he's, he's every bit the same driver he was over the last decade, but he's just got to take care of his body. So drivers do think that there's something to it, that if you're in better shape, it does bring better results in the car. I'm sure you take good care of yourself. I imagine you're kind of like minded in that bushes. Fat.

[Greg Cody]

And y'all are trying to get me to call people fat.

[Amin Elhassan]

I just want you to confirm that the championship race is coming home. Said, really? That's all I want.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You could just.

[Greg Cody]

I won't sit. No, I mean, everyone has their own things, what works for them, you know, So I don't, I don't judge anybody, man. Whatever you want to be. Whatever makes you happy.

[Stugotz]

Excellent. What makes me happy is that you're coming back to Miami, Homestead. Hopefully we'll get you in studio. Hopefully we can Ride around in your car and you can become a legitimate friend of the show. Can you announce the news that you're bringing your whole party, your whole gang is coming down here again?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, yeah, we're. I'm excited to announce it on y'all show, and like I said, I appreciate you having me, but, yeah, we're. We're moving the championship race. NASCAR is moving championship weekend to help the Miami Speedway in 2026, officially November 6th through the 8th. You know, it was at Miami for a long time. It moved to Phoenix for a handful of years, and now they're bringing it back to Miami. So I know a lot of people are excited about that. I'm very excited about it. It's a great area. We would love to have y'all out for championship weekend. It'd be a hell of a time. And so, yeah, officially it's out there. People have been having rumors, but it's definitely happening.

[Stugotz]

All right, so now we're friends with Ryan Blaney, and we're going to party with them at Miami Homestead. It's a big deal that this is coming down here. Ryan, thank you, sir. Good. Good seeing. Appreciate your time.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, thank you. Yep.

[Amin Elhassan]

Best of luck this weekend.

[Mike Ryan]

You know, when you celebrate 50 years of Miller Light, I had to bring in a Miller Lite aficionado, Greg Cody. I mean, no one says Miller Lite like Greg Cody. I think when I think of me and you, I think of us on a golf course. Where else are we at?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I mean, on a cruise ship. In. In my backyard.

[Greg Cody]

At the beach.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

At the. At the beach is a good one.

[Mike Ryan]

What do we always do?

[Stugotz]

We.

[Mike Ryan]

We hear that.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

And then what do we do?

[Stugotz]

It.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

We toast.

[Mike Ryan]

Nice little clink. The clink. Whether it's the can or the bottle, there's something about the clink of the Miller Light.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

And it's not just how much we. We love it. It's. It's the. The whole ritual of it. You know, the. The popping the top, the sound of that.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah, it's great. Love it. Love it.

[Mike Ryan]

From game nights to parties with friends or a special anniversary, celebrating important occasions means more with the coolest people in your life. Cheers to 50 years of Miller Lite, the great tasting light beer. For people who Love beer since 1975, now's a perfect time to celebrate legendary stories with friends, family, and a great tasting light beer. It's Miller time. The simple ingredients, that malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors. And that iconic golden color.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yes. It's it's one. Everything about it is wonderful. I can't think of anything bad.

[Mike Ryan]

You're smiling. Ever since we started doing this ad read, you have just been smiling the entire time.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I'm a Miller Light guy.

[Mike Ryan]

That kind of thing. Miller Lite Great Taste 96 calories Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Chris Cote]

Well, you guys have listened to oral history and you know that the origins of this show were once just a dream for Dan and for Stugats. And that dream turned into the show and now the business of metal arc media and the show that you're listening to today. But starting your own business is a dream that lots of us share. Too many of us let it remain just a dream. So don't hold yourself back thinking, what if I don't have the skills? What if I can't do it alone? Turn those what ifs into why nots. With Shopify by your side, Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, including 10% of all U.S. e commerce. Whether you're Mattel or you're just getting started, Shopify's got your back. Not a web designer? No problem at all. Shopify has beautiful ready to go templates. Need help with the details? Their AI tools can enhance product images, write descriptions, and even generate discount codes. Worried about finding customers? Shopify makes marketing easy with email and social media tools. And if I ever get stuck, Shopify's award winning 24. 7 support is always there. Turn those dreams into and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com batard go to shopify.com butard shopify.com butard.

[Amin Elhassan]

Hey folks, it's Mike Ryan. Game Time is the official ticketing partner of the Dan LeBatard show with Stugatz. Now if you're a legacy listener, you know all the great playoff memories that we've had down here on the ice and especially on the hardwood. A lot of deep runs for the Miami Heat down here. A lot of great memories. It was an incredible time to be a basketball fan down here and there's nothing like playoff basketball live. So why don't you download the gametime app because gametime makes getting tickets faster and easier even for hard to get playoff seats. Prices on the gametime map actually go down the closer that it gets a tip off with killer last minute deals, all in prices, views from your seat and their lowest price guarantee. GameTime takes a guesswork out of buying NBA playoff tickets. And don't forget your purchase is covered with the most flexible customer service policy in the ticketing industry. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code dan for $20 off. Download the Gametime app today. Last minute tickets, Lowest price guaranteed.

[Ryan Blaney]

Dan.

[Stugotz]

Lee what is the worst part of the life? Stugats.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

The worst part of the life of what?

[Ryan Blaney]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the st.

[Stugotz]

I want to continue with something that I can feel off our audience and I've been trying and we've been trying to please our audience for a long time and there's some tension around whenever it is that we're doing the content that we do every every day. And Panthers talk breaks out in a way that's a little too aggressively in the weeds on Panthers or out of nowhere after huge NBA night. Huge. Just wildly fun NBA night. Hey, why are you guys talking to a race car driver? I don't know if this is happening. I can assume it's happening, but I'm going to tell you again and remind you that this is a show that celebrates Miami and we paused for a moment there before getting to the stuff from the NBA last night that I've been, if I'm being totally honest, avoiding for the following reason. I was about as wrong in my analysis as I could be based on the results in the Clippers Nugget series. When I said the Clippers are good enough to win the championship, I said it for the second straight year. I said if they're healthy, healthy, they're good enough to win the championship. Last year they were not healthy. This year they were. That series made me wrong because Jokic took a ridiculous shot and Aaron Gordon saw what was in my lifetime, the first thing I've ever seen a buzzer beating dunk. Just because the MVP of the league throws up a stupid, ridiculous shot that he's made twice before on Anthony Davis, but he air balls it and Aaron Gordon judge. Aaron Gordon dunks it. I thought that was as wrong as I could be. That's as embarrassing as it can be. Except if you listen to yesterday's show where my analysis was Aaron Gordon can only dunk. I just saw OKC lose exactly the way the Clippers would have beaten them, by being a veteran team against a young team and savvy and amazing. And that game was the best, obviously, of the night. The Nuggets are champions. That's the best offensive player I've ever seen. Shay Gilgeous Alexander can challenge with his free throws, but he's going to have to dethrone that ogre. And no one, no one shuts that down that does not get shut down. And so, I mean, I ask you, that basketball night, how magical was that for you?

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, got it. Okay. Yeah, thanks for getting to basketball. About two hours into the show. You know, pretty decent night. Mike just showed me a pretty interesting staff from last night. Two NBA underdogs of nine plus points won outright on the same day in the playoffs for the first time in the last 25 years tonight. Last night. So that is insane, because. Yes, because both the Nuggets and the Knicks were going in heavy underdogs into their series against teams that had been rested and waiting for them, and they pulled it off. And I was actually trying to think about Dan, what was more improbable. I know, watching the Nick game, especially in the second half, the way the. The shot selection was going for the Celtics. I said it before the game. I said, I think the Celtics are going to win in five because they're going to have that one game where they can't hit a three and they will not adjust. I had no idea that it would happen that night. Right. Meanwhile, the Nuggets Thunder game, I was certain it was over. It was. It was. It was at that point just kind of like going through this. The motions, the semantics. Foul, going to make free throws. Foul, make free throws. And then at some point, we're just going to dribble it out. And Jokic has this little flurry, and then the Thunder make the mistake of fouling up three a little too early.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's crazy.

[Billy Gill]

But I'll tell you what, I'll give Mark Dagnaut a lot of credit because he said, that's on me. The players executed what we do. This is our culture. We like doing that. We probably started a little too early. That one's on me. Which is, by the way, every coach's creed is, hey, man, we have a game plan. I want you to execute the game plan. Now, if we execute the game plan and we lose, that's my fault, I can wear it. But if we don't execute our game plan, that's something completely different.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can I ask you what would have happened in that spot if, if Dagnal, if, If they don't foul up three there with 12 seconds left. And for context, Nuggets have no timeouts and Jokic is not in the game. Yeah, he's waiting at the scores table. The Nuggets had the ball down by 3:12 seconds. The clock is ticking. If they decided, no, no, no, we don't want to bow here because, you know, the Nuggets without Jokic on the floor are an all time terrible NBA team. What would, what would they have done there? The Nuggets.

[Billy Gill]

So Dagnault's philosophy is we foul up three. The part where he said that was on me is that we foul up three in the backcourt like that. We shouldn't have fouled that early. That.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, they only let like one second.

[Billy Gill]

One second came off the clock. So that's the part where I think he would agree with you if he had it back. They still would have fouled up three. It just wouldn't have happened that early.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can't let Yoko get back in the game.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, I mean, I, I get it, but again, if he hits free throws, then we're probably not having this conversation right now. Like, it was great, but Dan, there were three things last night from that game that I never thought I'd see. If I could. Could I go through them with you? Number three. An NBA player telling his coach not to review that call. Never thought I'd see that. Shakiltius Alexander grabs Jokic's arm. The bench doesn't see that part. They call for review and Shai's like, no, no, don't review it. Don't review it. But it's too late. They've already requested it. Number two, Russell Westbrook making the right play in the clutch. Everyone in America thought he was going, hell, head over heels straight to that rim, just going to barrel into it. And instead he looked up and he saw Aaron Gordon in the wing and he threw it. I said, what? Shout out to Russell Westbrook. And number one, the number one thing I never thought I'd see in my life came after the game, Ernie Johnson asking a Dan LeBatard asked question. He asked Jamal Murray a question that took about 2 minutes and 20 seconds to get out. The best thing they did on inside was they replayed just Jamal Murray waiting for the question to end. And he's just like kind of. He's nodding and he's closing his eyes and then he's looking around and. And I just thought, wow, Ernie's learning from Dan. How about that? Never thought I'd see it.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That's funny. By the way, should Aaron Gordon get a statue?

[Billy Gill]

Depends. Did they win a title this year?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Not yet.

[Billy Gill]

But if they do.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Not yet.

[Billy Gill]

Not yet. Okay.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I'm just curious.

[Dan LeBatard]

I got to tell you, Westbrook making that pass to Gordon at Oklahoma City. The crowd that gave him a standing ovation as he checked in yesterday, seemingly the only fan base that actually loves him, likes him, loves him. For him to pass up attacking the basket for the game winner, instead passing it out to Aaron Gordon. One of the most shocking NBA plays I've ever seen.

[Amin Elhassan]

I want to ask mean and pick your brain because you know the history of the game so much. Aaron Gordon, I guess was a missing piece and is perceived as a surprising missing piece. He's probably not the most surprising active missing piece in the league. I think maybe in terms of all time history, that actually might be Derrick White for Boston. What he did for Boston in that acquisition, in terms of that tier. Aaron Gordon, Derrick White, who else in the history of the game have been more surprising championship contributors? I'm guessing you're going to hearken back to a time where there wasn't the superstar era and super teams and there were just role players that were massive for guys.

[Billy Gill]

No, I'll give you two names. One guy is active as well and one guy from the past. Guy from the past, Derek Fisher, out of a small school, Little Rock, Arkansas. He wasn't heralded, he wasn't like physically gifted. He was short and stout. But he was absolutely a difference maker on what? Five titles in la. So Derek Fisher's one. The one who's active is Gary Payton ii. Because this is a guy that everyone said not an NBA player like, not just I don't know if you can win with him. It's like this guy's not an NBA player. He's a 63 guard who can't shoot and really can't handle the ball. He defends very well, but offensively, where do you put him? And the warriors said we'll make him our power forward on offense and he absolutely played a huge role in that 22 championship team.

[Stugotz]

Well, I don't know what Mike Ryan is doing this with the tier of Aaron Gordon is that fourth best player on a champion because the Aaron Gordon.

[Billy Gill]

I think he's the third best player on a champion.

[Stugotz]

Okay, let's see. Okay, maybe third best player on a champion. I would. When the Lakers won the championship with Lamar Odom as their fourth best player, that's the tier I'm talking about. And so when your third or fourth best player is Aaron Gordon, and Aaron Gordon was the best player in Orlando, and when he was. They were a sub 500 Orlando team. No, I mean, they.

[Billy Gill]

I mean, they had a couple years where they weren't sub 500. Clearly wasn't good enough to be a.

[Dan LeBatard]

Number one pick, a top three.

[Billy Gill]

But it was a top three pick, as was Lamar Odom, by the way. So that's why those guys, I kind of feel like they just landed. They finally found the right place for them. Maybe not as a franchise player, but as someone who's a contributor. Whereas Peyton and Fisher are guys who are like, this is the guy that's the missing piece.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, I guess to whittle it down, what I'm trying to say is, like, when they acquired Aaron Gordon, very few people were like, oh, that's gonna get it done. That's gonna put him over the hump. It was met with a lot of skepticism, like, that's not gonna fix it.

[Greg Cody]

Right?

[Stugotz]

But of course. But none of us knew what Jokic was there then, and none of us did. Nobody did. And now what I'm watching, this is. I mean, this is the part I wanna untangle with you, because what I'm watching from Denver has at its center something that for in my lifetime is an unprecedented thing. Who very often makes Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon or players like them a lot better than they actually are to win a championship, because holy shit, that's the best offensive thing I've ever seen. So how good is Aaron Gordon? Well, probably as good as. Get a lot of third guys, put them in there. And if Jokic is the one throwing them lobs, my guess is they're going to be as good as Aaron Gordon. A dunk champion, like a specific skill set. How much better? This is one game against okc, but OKC now has to go through a champion, and what they have to do is go through that guy. Chet Holmgren, you look awfully. You're great, your defense is great. But Chet Holmgren, you look awfully thin against that guy.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, but I mean, again, at the same time, I think Oklahoma City's defensive game plan worked for most of the night. Their game plan was, he's going to beat us, he's going to score 40, 50, whatever. He's not going to make everyone else better. He only had, I believe, two assists on the night last night. It worked all the way up to, like, three minutes left in the game. Again, Dan, I'm watching that game, there was nothing that indicated Denver's got a run in them and they're making a bunch of them.

[Stugotz]

But take me through the late game situation, okay? Because the legacies that are defined this time of year, a road win from a champion here is exactly how you put a young, great team in a vice grip on how it is. You not go say OKC out when OKC has been the best team in the sport the entire season and is now. And is now going through. Jokic is a champion. Take me through the late game situation that makes it so that OKC just lost the games. People are saying, because their coach gave one away and he's playing against the team that fired its coach and is going after a championship because they're saying, we don't need any coach. That bad guy, that guy was making it shitty around Jokic and we needed to get the smell of that out of the room.

[Billy Gill]

Well, I mean, I think there's a lot going on when you want to talk about Denver. You know, David Adelman talked about how everyone kind of stayed together. He said, even as we were trying to talking in those huddles and being emotional, it was all about, what can we do better? Not like, hey, man, you got to do. It wasn't a lot of finger pointing. And I think that happens in part because you lose a czar of a leader in Michael Malone, it becomes more collaborative maybe than it was before. You got to give Coach Adelman credit for fostering that environment. We talk about the Thunder again. The up foul and up three thing played a part. It wasn't the whole part. They gave up some easy baskets. Jokic kicked it up a notch. He went 4 of 6 on a 122 run in the last nine minutes of the game. So he's a great player. You're not going to bottle him up forever. I think what it is, is the Thunder played an easy opponent in the first round, and now you're playing against a team that can legitimately beat you. And there's a difference there because it comes down to execution on both sides of the ball and you can't let your foot off the gas. And they did that at the end. They played perfectly for 44 minutes.

[Stugotz]

And then it's exactly how a young team loses to a champion.

[Billy Gill]

That's how you go. But that's. Thankfully, it's not one and done. There's six more games, perhaps.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think it's a pretty massive error, the fouling up three there with Jokic waiting at the sideline.

[Stugotz]

I'm stunned that.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, I'm stunned.

[Stugotz]

I am stunned that Amin is sitting here and not crying foul. The way the Internet is at the mishandling of a late game situation. Because you're having the perspective of. No, the players decided that game.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah. Because, yes, it was a mistake.

[Greg Cody]

Yes.

[Billy Gill]

It made things more difficult. It wasn't like Jokic came in and hit two threes, and that's how they lost the game. Right.

[Dan LeBatard]

They're an historically awful team. When Jokic is not on the floor and the game was on the line.

[Billy Gill]

I get it. I'm not saying that I would have fouled in that situation. I'm saying when he says our culture, our philosophy is we foul up three, and he says that one's on me that we fouled that early.

[Dan LeBatard]

But he wasn't saying it's on me that we fat. That we didn't change our philosophy in that moment. Which is what should have happened.

[Billy Gill]

No, I mean, like, I. He won 68 games, dude. Like, I think that's the thing.

[Stugotz]

68 games just gave away home court.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah. And you win one in Denver and then all of a sudden you got it back. That's a crazy thing when people say, oh, home court. It's like, okay, you lost home court. All you got to do is win one over there, and all of a sudden you got it back.

[Stugotz]

I know, but that's a worst case scenario for OKC in the second round.

[Billy Gill]

Of the playoffs to have to win one at Denver.

[Stugotz]

No, what I'm just saying is what happened last night, I mean, basketball heads like you look at OKC and say, yep, have all the things you need to beat Boston and win a championship. That team is ready to win a championship.

[Greg Cody]

Is it?

[Billy Gill]

Yes. Okay.

[Stugotz]

Because last night starts that. Those guys have been giving fun interviews all year. They're a young team. It's great to watch them and they're fun. But now you got to beat that player on a team that doesn't even need a coach because they got that player. They got. And what they did is got rid of the coach so that player would be unbothered by, hey, get that stink out of here. We know who runs this thing.

[Billy Gill]

I just feel like, well, unless you're telling me that Denver is going to win four more like three straight games here, like, Oklahoma City is not going to win any more games. Like, guys, this is the playoffs. I don't know how to explain it to you. It's not March Madness. Like, teams lose a game, one at home and then come back and win that series. Now, if they lose game two now, we can have this. Oh, my God. Young team. How? What, are they, in deep shit conversation? They lost a game. I don't feel any more in jeopardy about that than the Celtics should or the Cavs should, having lost their game once.