The Big Suey: Happy Thanksgiling Pt. 2! (feat. Pablo Torre)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

The Big Suey: Happy Thanksgiling Pt. 2! (featuring Pablo Torre)

Release Date: November 27, 2025

---

Episode Overview

Broadcast from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this Big Suey episode centers on a bombshell investigative report by Pablo Torre regarding alleged salary cap circumvention by the LA Clippers and owner Steve Ballmer, involving NBA superstar Kawhi Leonard. Beyond the scandal, the group unpacks implications across sports, dives into behind-the-scenes reporting, and explores sports media’s willingness to address league-shaking revelations. The tone is irreverent and sharp, balancing investigative depth with the show’s trademark silliness.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pablo Torre’s Bombshell: The Clippers, Kawhi Leonard, and Cap Circumvention

[04:14 – 15:18]

• The Story:

  • Pablo Torre details his seven-month investigation revealing a $28 million “no-show” endorsement deal for Kawhi Leonard, funneled through a climate change start-up (Aspiration) largely funded by Clippers owner Steve Ballmer ($50 million invested).
  • The contract required absolutely no promotional work from Kawhi; CBS, NBA, and even Drake, DiCaprio, and Downey Jr. endorsed the brand, but none were paid as highly, and Kawhi did nothing in return for his payout.
  • This arrangement allegedly served as a way to skirt the NBA’s salary cap, funding Kawhi beyond league-sanctioned mechanisms.

• Pablo’s Breakdown:

  • “We have documentation. We have seven sources. We have a source voice modulated on tape kind of whispering some facts into your ear.” – Pablo Torre [07:01]
  • The account is enriched by references to a bankruptcy filing listing "KL2Aspire LLC" (Kawhi’s company) as a seven-figure creditor—the initial breadcrumb that led Torre down the investigative rabbit hole.
  • Pablo underscores the sheer scale and brazenness: “He was signed to a $28 million endorsement contract and did nothing. Nobody has proof of anything that he did. Zero things. No likes, no retweets, no posts, no tree plantings.” [07:37]

• Notable Details:

  • The company, Aspiration, claimed to plant more trees daily than there are in Central Park, but evidence suggests they planted virtually none.
  • Steve Ballmer has denied knowledge or wrongdoing, but documents and connections raise questions about plausible deniability.

2. NBA Precedent and Possible Repercussions

[11:56 – 15:24]

• Historical Parallel:

  • Discussion of the last major NBA “cap circumvention” case: The Minnesota Timberwolves/Joe Smith scenario from the 1990s, which led to severe penalties (five first-round picks forfeited, owner suspensions).

• Potential Punishments:

  • Pablo: “At the most extreme end: the nullification of contracts for the players whose salaries were circumvented.” [13:22]
  • Stugotz and Chris Cody highlight the likelihood of substantial owner-driven retribution, not just league discipline.

• Implications for Other Teams/Owners:

  • Could this expose a wider pattern? Pablo: “If you think about every owner's foremost incentive as self-interest, then the question becomes, what else have you guys been doing?” [22:59]
  • The story is causing anxiety among owners, especially small-market franchises.

3. Reactions and Legacy Media’s Role

[19:39 – 22:30]

• Media Silence & Potential Fallout:
  • Legacy partners like ESPN haven't (yet) picked up the story, raising doubts about how much traction the revelations will receive.
  • Pablo: “The NBA, they were not aware. This is not a story they had previously investigated and said, ah, there’s nothing here. This is catching them with a level of surprise…” [20:44]

4. Celebrities, Victims, and Villains

[21:10 – 22:30]

• Who Knew What?

  • Celebs (Drake, Downey Jr., DiCaprio) seem to have been duped, unlike Ballmer, whose business ties to Aspiration were close and strategic.

• Who’s to Blame?

  • Pablo: “Kawhi Leonard, to me, is not the villain… He’s maybe the most clear cut example of a straight up capitalist… Dude doesn’t want to work, he wants to get paid.” [08:38]

5. Is This an Outlier or Common Practice?

[36:00 – 41:09]

• Does This Happen ‘All the Time’?
  • Some (Chris Cody, Gary) suggest such deals are part of the hidden economy of pro sports, but Calais Campbell pushes back: “Look how sloppy this was. I don’t think that this happens all the time.” [36:15]
  • NFL analogues: The John Elway/Terrell Davis case, resulting in a third-round pick penalty and minor fine. [36:28]

6. Owner Motivations, Salary Cap Critiques & League Integrity

[39:26 – 40:54]

• Chris Cody rails against the entire concept of a salary cap:
  “The salary cap is a stupidity because these owners— all powerful owners—cannot control themselves… These are their playthings.” [40:36]
• The consensus: punishment will be dictated by “how mad all the other owners are going to be” [37:59].
• The panel reflects on how the deal’s exposure reframes Kawhi’s career and the Clippers’ sudden emergence as L.A. rivals.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pablo Torre

  • “He was signed to a $28 million endorsement contract and did nothing. Nobody has proof of anything that he did. Zero things. No likes, no retweets, no posts, no tree plantings.” [07:37]
  • “If you think about the room where they have to debate this stuff, the foremost voice when it comes to complaints… has been the Oklahoma City Thunder… That team happens to be the team that won the trade for Kawhi Leonard, that won the title using the guy that they got.” [23:10]
  • “Boardman gets paid, dude wants money. Dude doesn’t want to work, he wants to get paid.” [08:38]
  • “How is it that you don’t know would be the question [for Ballmer]. And that’s a different question for a celebrity than a businessman.” [22:12]

• Chris Cody

  • “This has the potential to be the biggest salary cap crime that we’ve seen.” [14:19]
  • “The other owners are going to read this this morning, and that’s going to dictate the penalty.“ [40:36]

• Calais Campbell

  • “If the punishment is not as punitive as maybe you’re making it sound, would that be a sign that other owners don’t want their business to come out as well?” [40:54]

• Mike Ryan

  • “The absurdity of all this, if they do one commercial with Kawhi Leonard…” [33:32]

• Fun banter:

  • Pablo pushes back on prop accusations about “7,000 documents” being reams of blank copy paper:
    “Absolutely not. How dare you.” [33:01]

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:14 – 07:26]: Pablo unveils the findings of his investigation—the Kawhi/Clippers “side deal.”
• [07:26 – 10:32]: Evidence (or absence thereof) for Kawhi’s paid work; discussion on how easily they could have “covered their tracks.”
• [11:56 – 15:24]: NBA’s possible responses and punishments; the Joe Smith precedent.
• [19:39 – 22:30]: Whether legacy media will touch the story, and the implications for other teams.
• [26:37 – 28:04]: Were trees even planted? Is this actual criminal fraud beyond NBA rules?
• [36:00 – 41:09]: Is this a one-off or standard across sports? Owners’ and league motivations; the salary cap in context.
• [39:01 – 41:36]: How the outcome may forever alter perceptions of Kawhi, Ballmer, and the Clippers’ rise.

---

Tone, Flow, and Style

The episode mixes deep-dive reportage (Pablo and his seven-month investigation, the legal/ethical ramifications) with the show’s typical jokiness and rapid-fire banter (digressions about Doc Rivers impressions, prop jokes, and family holiday photo stories). The group manages both to marvel at the audacity of the scheme and hone in on the systemic forces at play in sports business.

---

For Further Information

• Pablo Torre’s full documentary podcast is out now.
• 3:30PM ET: Extended YouTube discussion with Pablo, Amin Elhassan, and David Samson.
• Stay tuned for updates as league/media reaction develops.

---

This summary covers the episode’s most consequential conversations and captures the wit and insight that make Le Batard & Stugotz’s show unique—perfect for listeners who want all the big headlines and color without missing a beat.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, Smirnoff. Official vodka of the NFL. World's number one vodka. Chris Cody, you're with me here.

[Pablo Torre]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

Wow, you're on the money with Smirnoff.

[Chris Cody]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm gonna ask you, Chris, what's your favorite game day food?

[Chris Cody]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's your favorite game day drink. What's your favorite game day food?

[Chris Cody]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, here's the deal. Game day is everything. The noise, the rituals, the passion, the dip, the wings, the dip again.

[Chris Cody]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

Smirnoff belongs in that mix. Because if you're tailgating or hosting or just sitting there checking your fantasy lineup every 30 seconds, you need Smirnoff. Otherwise, it's not a real game day. They've been doing it since 1864, which is. I don't even want to do the math. It's a long time. It's like when Greg Cody was born. They're award winning, they make cocktails super easy, and they're all about bringing fans together. So, yeah, we do game days.

[Pablo Torre]

That's their thing.

[Dan LeBatard]

And if you're over 21, you. You should too. Why, Chris?

[Chris Cody]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

Grab a bottle of Smirnoff at your local retailer and head to smirnoff.com to find recipes of delicious cocktails perfect for game day.

[Pablo Torre]

Smirnoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff number 21 vodka distilled from grain, 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please do not share with anyone under legal drinking age.

[Greg Cote]

Hey, Chris. Here. Black Friday game day is coming to prime, and it'll be an epic day of live sports. Black Friday football is at the center of it with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3pm Eastern. That's followed by the final night of the Emirates Cup NBA group play and a doubleheader starting with the Bucks and Knicks at 7pm and the Mavericks and Lakers at 10pm what a nightcap game that is. But the whole day starts with the return of the Capital One skins game as four elite PGA golfers face off with $4 million on the line. Black Friday game day tees off with Capital One skins game at 9am Eastern before the Big Bears Eagles game at 3pm and it culminates with a double dose of Emirates NBA cup action featuring bucks, Knicks at 7pm and Mavs Lakers at 10pm Only on Prime.

[Stugotz]

There's a reason Chevy trucks are known for their dependability. Because they show up no matter the weather, push forward, no matter the terrain, and deliver. That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability awards for trucks than any other brand in 2025, according to J.D. power. Because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver, dependability comes standard. Visit chevy.com to learn. Chevrolet received the highest total number of awards among all the trucks in the JD powered 2025 US Vehicle Dependability Study awards based on 2022 models. Newer models may be shown. Visit jdpower.com awards for more details. Chevrolet together.

[Greg Cote]

Let's drive.

[Stugotz]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[Chris Cody]

Why are you listening to this show?

[Stugotz]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sorry.

[Chris Cody]

I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Stugotz]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Chris Cody]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Mike Ryan]

I've done it.

[Stugotz]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Mike Ryan]

This episode of the Dan Levittard show with stgots is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre joins us now. By the way, Greg, Cody Dominique said on his show the other day that the Colts are a team that is not getting enough attention or respect and that they were his pick for which team would be surprisingly good.

[Mike Ryan]

I'll pass that along to Greg.

[Chris Cody]

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Greg.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, nice chatting with you, Pablo.

[Chris Cody]

Are you joining us right now from the Harvard club?

[Pablo Torre]

Why am I being doxxed on your program in which I thought I was a friend of the show, a family member, in fact. And now you're alleging? I'm sorry, I just found out verifiable claims.

[Chris Cody]

I'm sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

You can't prove that.

[Chris Cody]

I'm sorry I reported something that makes you uncomfortable.

[Pablo Torre]

You think this is crimson? You think this red is crimson? No, it's something else.

[Chris Cody]

You're at the Harvard Club, aren't you?

[Pablo Torre]

No. That's off Maroon. That's off Maroon.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre finds out has exploded as a podcast. Today is his first day and its first first day with the athletic. And he started with a beast of a story that took seven months to report and that he was very nervous that somebody else was gonna break before he reported what was in 3,487 documents. So starting first, tell the people what it is that you reported today at.

[Pablo Torre]

5Am yeah, so people may recall how there's this. What is happening is that, is that.

[Chris Cody]

That'S how we're introducing when you drop a Pablo. When you drop a Pablo. When a Pablo drops. That's our imaging. Chris Cody has had seven months to produce imaging for this story.

[Stugotz]

It's good, right?

[Chris Cody]

And that's what he has produced. This is how we.

[Gary]

Like Lance Stevenson blowing in my ear.

[Chris Cody]

This is how a Pablo gets dropped. This is how we celebrate the biggest story in sports today. So, so tell us what it is, please.

[Pablo Torre]

Whoever, whoever just yel. Good, right? I have, I just. Who said that the sweet nothing is the sweet nothings. It's a sweet something is what I brought you guys today. 2019, the NBA investigates. Okay, how did the Clippers get Kawhi Leonard? They found no proof, right? This was something that the NBA was infuriated by. Around the league, it was the Lakers, it was the Raptors. Everybody wondering, how did Steve Ballmer and the Clippers get Kawhi Leonard? We have an episode that explains in I think like 4k detail how it happened in terms of how Steve Ballmer, the owner of the Clippers, has paid Kawhi Leonard off of the books using. And this is where the story gets wild because this is about the extension kawhi signs in 2021. But it involves true to the alleged setting that I'm in, to Harvard graduates, to Democratic politicians starting what turns out to be a $2.3 billion value weighted scheme around climate change and saving the planet that brings in as the following, a roster of endorsers, Robert Downey Jr. Drake, Leonardo DiCaprio, Cindy Crawford, Orlando Bloom, the list goes on. What has never been reported though, until today is the most important, most highly paid endorsement deal they signed, which was more than four times the combined value of every other celebrity. And that endorsement deal was signed with one of probably, I would say the worst pitch men when it comes to like good athletes in America. And it's Kawhi Leonard. And this was a company that was funded to the tune of $50 million by Steve Ballmer, another Harvard graduate and the owner, of course, the richest owner in all of sports. And so we have documentation. We have seven sources. We have a source voice modulated on tape kind of whispering some facts into your ear. If you listen on YouTube or as a podcast. It's a story that's an 80 minute documentary we made. And it's, yeah, it's, it's crazy. It's actually a crazy thing to sort of pore through.

[Chris Cody]

Is there any proof at all that Kawhi Leonard did any work at all to earn that $28 million? Anything other than basketball? Play basketball for the Clippers, which he's.

[Pablo Torre]

Only kind of done. I would argue the basketball part, that's my favorite part, is that typically in a story like this, you say, okay, there's no evidence. And that's a problem here. The absence of evidence is kind of the evidence. He was signed to a $28 million endorsement contract and did nothing. Nobody has proof of anything that he did zero things. No likes, no retweets, no posts, no tree plantings. This was a company that was supposed to plant trees to zero out your carbon footprint and help save the planet. Kawhi did nothing that anyone could find. There's no evidence on the Internet anywhere. And that, to me, feels like all of the evidence you need in terms of this being a no show job if you're an endorser of something. I would argue, Pablo, part of the.

[Mike Ryan]

Gall of this scam is the stupidity of it. Wouldn't it have been extremely easy just to have Kawhi film a couple of PSAs endorsing this whole project instead of doing absolutely nothing?

[Pablo Torre]

It's a great question that Calais Campbell has just asked, I believe, because you just asked that question. It's a really good question. There's sloppiness in this. There's sloppiness all over the place. Because, yes, all you had to do was do a couple of things. But the whole. This is the legend, right? Like people are saying, yeah, you're snitching on Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi Leonard, to me, is not the villain of the story. Kawhi Leonard is maybe the most clear cut example of a straight up capitalist, right? Boardman gets paid, dude wants money. Dude doesn't want to work, he wants to get paid. And so Kawhi Leonard could have done some of that stuff to give everybody plausible deniability. He preferred not to. He signed a deal in the contract, which we have. We have the signed and executed endorsement contract, and it's Kawhi Leonard, his autograph right next to the guy who turns out to be, by the way, the youngest speechwriter in White House history for Bill Clinton. Andre Cherny, the co founder of Aspiration. In that contract, he has outs that our pal David Sampson poured over, in which you clearly see Kawhi was also not obligated to do anything. They just didn't count on people like me, I guess, ever caring enough to follow the clues down the rabbit hole and find out that, oh, wait, this was a job that required you to do nothing and you did nothing. And so that feels like a problem.

[Mike Ryan]

Gotta want to learn. Gotta want to earn.

[Chris Cody]

Kawhi don't want to learn. Kawhi don't want to earn.

[Calais Campbell]

Pablo, if. If they did what the. What Calais Campbell was suggesting, which is just, you know, a little thing here or there for Kawhi to do, wouldn't that. If I could check the counterpoint, wouldn't that have then tipped someone off to this. This endorsement he's doing? And then maybe we would have found out that Ballmer was funding. And of course, it's like, hey, the bell rings that, wow, that's probably not a good thing for the salary cap.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it's a. That's also, I mean, logical question. Now, the thing about this story, though, is that aspiration, while totally obscure until really, like, it goes viral this morning, they were announced to be the 23 year, $300 million plus founding sponsor of the Intuito. They were announced. We have press conference footage of Steve Palmer sitting next to Joe Sandberg, the guy who has now pled guilty to two cuts of wire fraud, by the way, and a nine figure fraud as investigated by the doj, and now still the sec. So this was out there. It's just that nobody knew Kawhi was working for them. But Zaz, to your point, the reason I found out about this is because in the bankruptcy filing, because the company has, of course, collapsed and it's into disgrace and financial ruin. In the bankruptcy filing, you see the list of creditors, and buried there, which was publicly available, by the way, was this line item that said $7 million outstanding to KL2Aspire LLC. And I looked up what that was in the California Secretary of State database, and it was, oh, Kawhi Leonard's llc. Interesting. I then Google, did he ever do anything for Aspirated? Because I'd never seen that. And it's weird to have Kawhi Leonard as one of your top endorsers and there was nothing. And at that point, that's when I'm like, something doesn't add up here. And it turns out a lot didn't add up for anybody.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo, this is a bombshell at the foot of the NBA right now. And the commissioner, what do you imagine the repercussion might be of this story?

[Chris Cody]

Before you answer that, Pablo, let me just hear some Calais Campbell sound to see if Pablo's got it right, because he does indeed find out that whoever that is speaking in that modulated voice sounds like Calais Campbel.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, thank you. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

I think that's a compliment.

[Chris Cody]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Wow. I think that is a compliment as well.

[Chris Cody]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

So friendly.

[Chris Cody]

What other repercussions gonna be?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I mean this is the parlor game that I find absolutely fascinating because Steve Ballmer, to reiterate, has a denied any wrongdoing, didn't know about any of this, says it's provably false. I await the proof frankly. But nonetheless, Steve Ballmer is the richest owner not just in the NBA, but all of sports. Right. He's the good guy who saved the Clippers from noted racist Donald Sterling. He has Barack Obama sitting courtside. All of this stuff means he's both powerful and a good spokesperson for the league that wants to be on the good guy side of things. But yet you have this other dynamic where Steve Ballmer, who paid for the Intuit Dome with personal private money, no public funds, Right. Great on him. He has spent so much money to expand his front office, because that's uncapped. Here you have the problem of why Adam Silver called in 2019, according to the athletic report on the investigation, a cardinal sin of alleged cap circumvention in which the NBA per that report, had outlined possible consequences. Forfeiture of draft picks, million dollar plus fines. At the most extreme end, the nullification of contracts for the players whose salaries were circumvented. So I go back to history and I'm like, what's the last time this happened? And the only analogous case in terms of documentation and salary capture convention was the Minnesota Timberwolves. Joe Smith, which I don't know if anybody in the container even remembers, but Joe Smith and Glenn Taylor, the owner of the T Wolves, had worked out a side deal and it was written on paper because they were afraid Glenn Taylor was gonna die before the completion of that contract. It's a total side fascinating story, but.

[Chris Cody]

This has the potential to be the biggest salary cap crime that we've seen.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, yes, $28 million. And by the way, for the T Wolves in that era in the 90s, five first round picks suspensions for the owner of the team, for Glenn Taylor, as well as other punishments down the line. But this, this as tied into again an ongoing SEC DOJ investigation into fraud by this green bank, this climate change friendly company whose biggest investor, or at least the most important influential notable investor was Steve Ballmer, who put in $50 million of his own money. I mean, this is not merely a story about capstar convention. This is now a question that the seven sources I spoke to are asking, what else did Steve Ballmer know about? How does one guy have influence over this company in this way? And yet total ignorance about everything else. It's just a question being okay, that.

[Gary]

Joe Smith thing happened over 20 years ago and Glenn Taylor's still around, which is also interesting.

[Greg Cote]

Folks, what if I told you you could give a gift that brings your favorite holiday traditions and memories to life every single day? With aura frame you can. In the Cody family, the holiday tradition isn't just dinner. It's a spectacle. Every year, my dad deep frying a turkey barefoot. Yeah, that's right. Outside oil bubbling, toes exposed. Oh, that one toe. Naturally. Someone's always filming it. And this year, I'm uploading all the glorious barefoot frying photos straight to aura frame. You can preload the frame before it ships so when Greg opens it, the first thing he sees is his barefoot self holding his deep fried turkey like a hero. And with unlimited free photos and videos, I can keep adding every new fire hazard memory for years to come. For a limited time, visit auraframe.com and get $45 off Aura's best selling Carver mat frames named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code DLB at checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code DLB this exclusive black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best of the year. So order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.

[Roy]

All right, look, it's the holidays again and people are running around and getting stressed out and they're asking me, roy, what should I get? What should I do? Give me some recipes. And every year I tell them the same exact thing. Get meat. It's not that hard. It's not that complicated. It's meat. In Omaha Steaks, they deliver the world's best steak experience. USDA certified tender steaks. It tastes like someone actually cares about you. Burgers, steaks, comfort meals, all that stuff makes you go, mm, that'll work. And now during the cyber sale, you can get 50% off site wide and an extra 20% off select favorites at Omaha steaks.com plus all listeners get an extra $35 off with promo Dan at checkout. I've had Omaha Steaks many times. I've given them out, too. People lose their minds. You hand them that box and suddenly they think you're the greatest human alive. Five generations, same family, 100% guarantee. Save big on unforgettable gifts with omaha steaks. Visit omahasteaks.com for 50% off site wide and an extra 20% off select favorites during the cyber sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code DAN at checkout that's Omaha Steaks.com promo code DAN at checkout to supply. See site for details.

[Gary]

It'S the holidays and the 50th anniversary of Miller Life. The holidays are all about gathering around with family and friends. So why don't you bring out a cornucopia of that beautiful white ca can Miller Lite or draft whatever it is. You know it's going to be a special time when you bring out Miller Lite because Miller Lite makes special time. Miller Time Whether it's a late night hang after the holiday party or standing around a fire pit with a fan, Miller Lite just fits. It's a taste you know you can depend on. Brewed for flavor with simple ingredients like malted barley, rich balanced toffee notes and that iconic golden color. And at 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it lets you enjoy the season without weighing you down. The original light beer since 1975 and still hidden different 50 years later. The best holiday beers are the ones you don't expect. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Pablo Torre]

Don LeBatard Pablo leads all of podcasting.

[Gary]

In Reading while smiling. If you listen to ESPN Daily, he.

[Pablo Torre]

Sounds like he's having the time of his life.

[Gary]

Stugarts Coming up next, I'm going to.

[David Sampson]

Tell you how the Savannah Bananas are changing.

[Greg Cote]

How do you know?

[David Sampson]

How do you know I'm smiling?

[Gary]

That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say Savannah Bananas.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Gary]

Legacy media. They have to independently verify your bombshell reporting, but the NBA did just announce several media partnerships. They're basically on every night. They have so many big time media partners. So far I haven't seen ESPN touch this story. Do you actually think this gets traction beyond where it is right now? I know you have a big partnership with the athletic. They're going to be pumping it out there. But do you think the big time partners of the NBA are going to touch this with a 10 foot pole?

[Pablo Torre]

It's a great question. It's a really good question. We await. We Await, I feel like what is an obvious, obvious decision to, of course, cover the biggest news in basketball today. And by the way, it's not merely, oh, wow, we have to do this whole thing. They spent 80 minutes on this documentary. How can we possibly do that in a segment? The question would be, what should the NBA do if these allegations are approved? How do you handle this capture convention? And Kawhi Leonard, that is a talker. And so, by the way, like, yeah, I don't know who has or hasn't covered this stuff yet, but I can tell you that the NBA, they were not aware. This is not a story they had previously investigated and said, ah, there's nothing here. This is catching them with a level of surprise that I think says a lot about how secret this entire operation was.

[David Sampson]

Pablo, you named also celebrities who were listed as endorsers and had some involvement with this company. So were they duped or were they potentially in on what was going on?

[Pablo Torre]

They seem to be victims. That said, I think the question of, like, what are you obligated to know about the thing you give your name to is a thing I think about all the time working with you guys. But also when it comes to people trying to be good guys who are getting into partnerships with people who are not so good, actually, the question would be Leonardo DiCaprio, did you know? Or Robert Downey Jr. When you made that commercial that we put into the episode, did you know what you were really endorsing? A question that many celebrities have fallen into traps about, in fairness to them. So that seems all logical. But when you're alleged to be the greatest investor of the last 20 years, a guy in Steve Ballmer who was a titan of industry, again, the sixth richest person in the world, who has a personal relationship to the players involved here. And by that, I mean the actual executives at this company that you partnered with them 23 years, $300 million. Right. How is it that you don't know would be the question. And that's a different question for a celebrity than a businessman.

[Gary]

Pablo, this is a cap sport. This is an unfair advantage. I imagine other teams are pretty pissed off about this. But I got to imagine across all the cap sports in this country, there might be some teams and owners that are a little bit nervous. Is it likely that Steve Ballmer just invented this idea and was the first to execute it, or do you think the league has to do some asking around right now in terms of punitive measures because this might be a bigger problem than just his story?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, if you Think about every owner's foremost incentive as self interest. Then the question becomes what else have everybody. What else have you guys been doing? You know, what have you guys been up to? I doubt that there has been a story with this level of documentation and depth in terms of how they tried to do it that was only caught again because the company collapsed into bankruptcy. But I think it's interesting, right, if you think about the room where they have to debate this stuff, the foremost voice when it comes to complaints to the league office about how small market teams have basically been crushed by rich guys. Now these new billionaires, the new owners, the richest guys in sports history like Steve Ballmer, that team has been the Oklahoma City Thunder historically. They always raise this stuff. They can tell the difference between what they can do and what they can't. That Ballmer, for instance, could that team happens to be the team that won the trade for Kawhi Leonard, that won the title using the guy that they got in Jake Il just Alexander, who won the MVP in the finals then in the regular season and won a title this year. And so it's just interesting. I just wonder, like, what does that team have to say given that their trade partner happens to be maybe the entity that they should be philosophically opposed to. But in this personal context, you know, maybe that's a different calculus.

[Chris Cody]

I, I should clarify some of the word choices I had earlier when I called it the biggest salary cap crime that there is. This isn't an actual crime. It's just within the context of basketball. I don't think that we've had anything around the salary cap that has a player of this magnitude or dollar amount of this magnitude.

[Pablo Torre]

The language there is important and also speaks to the whole thing of like in the NBA, there is a justice system. There are laws that the federal government ostensibly cares nothing about. The difference here in what we report in the story and very carefully report using again seven sources who work for the company. Is that the very thing that is getting the Clippers into hot water today because of this reporting is the thing that has caused those seven sources to actively wonder about what else Steve Ballmer might have been aware of, which is directly relevant to what the SEC and the DOJ are curious about? We are not alleging anything. We are simply saying this is a sports story that has actual resonance, even if the one thing is not a crime. And the question is, what else in the world of legality might actually be connected?

[Calais Campbell]

Pablo rather than the league possibly voiding Kawhi Leonard's contract, would the Better punishment be that the Clippers have to keep Kawhi.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I thought about this one too. This whole trade, man, like it's funny. Like do you if you're the Clippers right now, it's kind of a, it's a bit of a blessing in disguise if you think that Kawhi Leonard is no longer worth the max plus contract that he's been signed to. Right. If he's not healthy would be the operative question. All of this though, it reminds me, right, like man, it was such the obvious choice at the time to get Kawhi Leonard and Ballmer looked like a genius for doing whatever he did to get him because there's no better player than a prime Kawhi Leonard coming off a title with the Raptors, two way player, all that stuff. And now it's like, yeah, welcome to sports Steve is a bit of what's happened here, the double insult, the double bind is this story today for a guy that you may not even want in the same way anymore because his body turned out to be not trustworthy either.

[David Sampson]

Do we know if trees were actually planted? Because like Dan said, like, well, it isn't actually illegal. It's just them getting around the salary cap. But if they're raising money to replant trees and they're just using that money to pay celebrities to do nonsense, then crimes might have actually been committed.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I mean there look. So the co founder of the, of the company, Joe Sandberg, who is a big Democrat politician in California, pled guilty. Two counts of wire fraud, nine figure scheme, all that stuff. Guilty lib there is, but by the way, the climate change pose, right, Like Trump's administration comes to an end, the first one and people are like it's time for the good guys to make some bank. And so their logo, their motto was clean rich is the new filthy rich. And then part of the investigation, Billy, and it's again a very good thought is did you guys even plant the trees? And the source that we have in the episode points out that in their experience at the company, in all this documentation there was precisely one visit to a tree planting site. So in short, the answer seems to be no, they didn't really plant all of those trees. Despite claiming, by the way, Andre Cherny, whose signature was on the contract with Kawhi Leonard, he had claimed we plant as many trees every day, even more, actually more trees every day than there are in Central Park. None of that seems to have been true.

[Chris Cody]

I should let everyone know that at 3:30 today, Eastern Pablo And Amin and Samson will be popping up on our YouTube because I'm sure after seven months of investigation that there was a lot left on the cutting room floor. These are exhaustive episodes. And so if you want more information than anyone else is gonna be able to give you, at 3:30 in the afternoon today Eastern, Pablo will be doing something that, you know, takes you places where I think people might suspect that sports go sometimes, but it's damn near impossible to ever prove this stuff, even when there's an NBA investigation. What? What? Didn't we ask you that? We should have asked you, what are the other things here? I don't know how the reporting on this began. I don't know what you think the most revealing things are that your sources told you.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I just love the fact that like, by the way, Doc Rivers was a guy who invested in this. And so it's just like, okay, we had David to assess the contract language as the former president of the Marlins, guy who signed many sponsorship deals, we had a mean on. Because if you don't think that we tapped into his Doc Rivers, you have another thing coming. Yeah, we have this whole thing, man. This whole thing is absurd. It's just absurd.

[Chris Cody]

He wasn't there for important things. He was just there for his Doc Rivers impersonation.

[Gary]

That is important, Dan.

[Pablo Torre]

That's a good impersonation. I don't think you appreciate how good that impression. He had an Obama in this episode because Obama comes up. He had a Doc in this one. But then like truly and for the David side of things, just imagine the absolute, just like the pig in manure dynamic of David getting to just put on his little glasses and read a contract that he has no idea what's in. And he gets to point out all of this stuff that's crazy. Like there's a part of the contract, right? So Kawhi Leonard does nothing, gets paid more than anybody else combined. More than four times as much as all the A list avengers.

[Chris Cody]

We mentioned DiCaprio, Robert Downey Jr. Just the a list of A list.

[Pablo Torre]

Drake. Drake, you know, Orlando Bloom. So meanwhile, Kawhi Leonard has this clause in his contract where he doesn't have to do anything if it's not in accordance with his quote, beliefs. And it's just an incredible. And also he doesn't get paid if he doesn't play for the Clippers. So I'm just like, they can try to spin this in lots of ways, but on some level there's an IQ test dynamic. Here are all the, all the facts he reported. Here are all the documents. Here's the source on tape. Here's a guy doing a weird Doc Rivers impression. Here's a guy telling you what these endorsement deals are supposed to be like. What do you think? I can't really do much more to the NBA than give them all of the things they need to allegedly care about the justice that they talk about being a cardinal sin.

[Greg Cote]

Pablo get nutty with Hampton Farms, the official peanut of bowl season, bringing you the ultimate game day snack. There's nothing like the roar of the crowd, the thrill of the play, and the satisfying crack of fresh in shell peanuts. From the first kickoff to the final whistle, Hampton Farms peanuts keeps your energy high and your taste buds happy. Join the celebration of college football with every delicious crunch. Purchase for sharing with friends, tailgating outside the stadium or cheering from the couch. Grab a bag from the produce aisle of your local grocery store and savor the game one peanut at a time.

[Stugotz]

With Black Friday savings at the Home Depot, you can get up to $1,400 off, plus get free delivery on select appliances like LG, America's most reliable line of appliances. Check out the newest LG refrigerator with new mini craft ice straight from the dispenser shop. Black Friday savings on select LG appliances, plus get free delivery now at the Home Depot. Free delivery on appliance purchases of$396 or more offer valid11.5 through12.3 US only. See store online for details.

[Pablo Torre]

Extra value meals are back. That means 10 tender juicy McNuggets and medium fries and a drink are just $8 only at McDonald's for a limited time only.

[Chris Cody]

Prices and participation may vary.

[Pablo Torre]

Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery, Don LeBatard.

[Mike Ryan]

This is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes. Stugats, everybody. This is the quickest it goes. Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[David Sampson]

I love the picture that's behind you that they're going to put on the full screen. Dan of 1 David Sampson looking through the contract in the context of like O.J. simpson. If I did it, like this is how I would have done this exact thing. And then I'm also looking at the setup on that screen where Pablo those are props. Like, that's blank copy paper that you guys see stacked up and like, here's 7,000 documents. We go like, that's insane. That's freshly taken. Those are like just reams of paper, correct?

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely not. How dare you.

[David Sampson]

How dare you guys Put one paperclip on, one little stack on the top, and everything else.

[Chris Cody]

It's like in the movies when they put $100 bill on the top of the suitcase and everything under it is just a bunch of confetti.

[David Sampson]

The prop person did barely more than Kawhi did for trees. In fact, they did worse for trees because they wasted trees on all that paper.

[Mike Ryan]

Looks like a prop contract.

[Pablo Torre]

Wow. Prove it. That's what I have to say to you. Prove it. You think you can find that out? Prove it.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo, to your point, the absurdity of all this, if. If they do one commercial with Kawhi Leonard.

[Chris Cody]

You already said that. All right, we got that. We got that. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

It's absurd.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo. See you later, Pablo.

[Mike Ryan]

This whole thing is aborted.

[Pablo Torre]

He's one of the. He's one of the great defensive tackles in South Florida history. Going to treat like that.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you, Pablo.

[Chris Cody]

Defensive reporting.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre finds out. Go check it out. It's already exploded. The original tweet this morning about the Pablo episode is over 3 million views. Because he's the only one who has this information. He's going to be the only one for a while. He'll be ahead of this story 3:30 live on YouTube. He will give you more information. We're going to get out of that now because we've got football to get to. Good. See you. Pablo, thank you for the reporting. Thank you for the work from the Harvard club. I, having seen the episode, I will tell you guys that this, this part made me laugh. Because if you don't know what the story is about. Amin, David and Pablo talk for 15 minutes, a full 15 minutes at the top of the episode, without telling you exactly what the story is about. And it reminded me of a mistake I made many years ago. My reporting on the Dallas Cowboys White House many years ago, where Michael Irvin had a home, where the players away from their wives partied. I put that in a column about 20 paragraphs in. In a story about Eric Rhett going to a nightclub and super bowl partying. So 20 paragraphs into a story. I didn't actually put in that the Bucks had one of these too, that they called the Batcave.

[Pablo Torre]

What?

[Chris Cody]

That is correct. And the thing that the Dallas Cowboys did that I was reporting, I thought wasn't as important as what it is that you're reporting. I don't understand why it is. You guys talked for a full 12 minutes before telling us what the hell. The story.

[Pablo Torre]

Hold on, hold on. Because. Hold on. Dan, did you watch the Sixth Sense and be like, they waited till the end to tell me that he saw dead people.

[Chris Cody]

Come on.

[Pablo Torre]

What are you, what are you. Spoiler alert.

[Chris Cody]

Spoiler alert.

[Pablo Torre]

Also, there's a bat cave. What? Why have you been holding out on me?

[Chris Cody]

Good talking to you. See you later. Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Good tip. Good work. Tip. Into the. Into the Pablo Tori finds out tip line Batcave.

[Chris Cody]

You didn't even answer how the reporting on this started. Maybe we'll find out at 3:30 when he sits down with David Sampson and Amin El Hassan. So you guys are in agreement because you guys all, you're all saying, oh, this happens all the time. But we don't have very much proof of this happening all the time.

[Calais Campbell]

It's all the time. I don't think so. I think, I think eventually, look how sloppy this was. Now that we're getting this information and we're just finding out about it now, like I don't think that this happens all the time.

[Gary]

There was one high profile incident of this happening in the NFL and it was a little slap on the wrist. There was salary cap circumvention with John Elway and Terrell Davis. The league docked the Broncos a third round draft pick and fined them $2 million.

[Chris Cody]

I don't know what the penalties on this are going to be. The NBA, as Pablo just told you, is going to be scrambling to figure out how to penalize the Clippers for this. Because I will say to you, once you're screwing with the integrity of the structure of the league. The Lakers were going to get Kawhi Leonard, put him with LeBron and change how the league looked. And the Clippers, the laughing stock of Los Angeles for the entire time they've been in Los Angeles before, Kawhi Leonard did something that landed Kawhi Leonard. There is no way that the league handles this in a way that is soft. Something is going to come down on Ballmer and it's not because Silver's a badass. It's because of how mad all the other owners are going to be about finding out about this. Mickey Harrison is going to go into the hall of Fame this week and I assure you that the other owners are going to be infuriated that there is something that looks like proof on, oh, that's how they did it. That's how the laughing stock Clippers managed to convince Kawhi and Uncle, Uncle Dennis to go to go to the laughingstock Los Angeles franchise.

[Calais Campbell]

I think it's fun to imagine how David Stern would have handled this if he were Commissioner cuz Adam Silver, I mean, come on.

[Chris Cody]

You know, it's not gonna be Silver, though. It's gonna be the owners. Like, Silver works for the owners. The owners are gonna dictate what the penalty is on this, and I don't think it'll be soft.

[Gary]

Do you guys? We remember a couple months ago we were talking about, do you remember where you were when the Kawhi transaction went down? And most of us actually had a memory of that. You remember why we had a memory of that? Because it was being positioned as the Clippers just saved the NBA from the next big super team. Because it was well assumed that Kawhi was teaming up with LeBron and going to the Lakers. There were all sorts of reports of meetings and what was being asked. And then, like a thief in the night, came Steve Ballmer and the Clippers. And it was all predicated on that Paul George trade. And then we saw the whole picture come together. But when this deal first happened, everybody was super thankful that it did because the league was saved and it was going to be more parody, especially in Los Angeles.

[Calais Campbell]

And don't forget, there were all these rumors at the time of what the uncle was asking of teams when it came to signing his nephew. It was, you know, potentially private jet whenever he wants. And it was buying a home. And it. It was endorsement deals, it was ownership stake. And it's like, we can't give you any of that.

[Gary]

You're starting to look at Kawhi's entire career a little bit differently because I think I. If I fell on one side, I was pro Kawhi in happen with the Spurs. This is just another element of shadiness that makes you revisit that.

[Chris Cody]

Oh, but I don't. I'm with Pablo on this in not blaming Kawhi for being maximum capitalist mercenary. The salary cap in general is a stupidity. It's because guys like Ballmer can't control themselves. When they want something, they know exactly how to buy it. And so I'd like to see all of those people bidding maximum amount of dollars because you want to pick Jerry Jones against Daniel Snyder and see who wants the quarterback more and see how much that money's going to rise. The salary cap is a stupidity because these owners, all powerful owners, cannot control themselves when it comes to this sort of thing. And seeing Steve Ballmer want to get in this game so badly when he's the sixth richest man in the world. You know how these owners work. These are their playthings. But you think they're going to be less competitive with their playthings than they are about money. These other owners are going to read this this morning, and that's going to dictate the penalty. It's not going to be about Stern Silver, any of that. It's every owner waking up this morning. Imagine Ishbia or, well, this is pre hp. But all of these, somebody with Ishba's mindset seeing this and being like, wait a minute, it looks like they cheated to get somebody because they don't care about our rules. When it comes to keeping things equitable.

[Calais Campbell]

If the punishment is not as punitive as maybe you're making it sound, it should be. Would that be a sign that other owners don't want their business to come out as well?

[Gary]

That's why I'm super curious, because I'm sure you have some small market teams that understand what they're going up against in that league. They don't have certain advantages. And now the large markets are going above and beyond the league rules to acquire some of these people. They're. They're a part of the league, too. They are shareholders in the league, too. But to the question that I asked Pablo is, I got to imagine Palmer can't possibly be the first person that considered something like this, nor is Kawhi.

[Chris Cody]

The first person to ask. I've told you guys before, the amount of asks that LeBron's people made when they got to Miami because they knew what they were bringing to Miami. The answer was no. Please give us hundreds of season tickets. Hundreds. You know what those were worth the first year? Hundreds of season. Imagine what hundreds of seasons of tickets, season tickets would be for the LeBron James crew. There's nothing wrong with making the ass. I learned this. I told you guys this story. I don't know if you remember this at the Cleveland or. One of Stugatz's friends came in one day and it was Stugatz's friend. And so that person came in and made me take, I'm going to say, 45 minutes worth of pictures with him and his kid. 45 minutes. But because it was Stugatz's friend, I did it. And then at the end of it, I was 40 minutes past my expiration date. The guy looks at me and says, can you call your father and ask him to come in? And I look at Stugatz and Stugatz's response was, yeah, you just keep asking until they say no.

[David Sampson]

Were you blinking? Like, what was going on? Like, why did you take so many photos? New pose, like different spots in the studio. Like, what happened?

[Calais Campbell]

It's a good question.

[Greg Cote]

You can be an award photo taker.

[Gary]

About like 70% of the times. Yeah, the eyes are closed.

[Chris Cody]

I don't blame a player for wanting more and more money in this situation. I don't think that this is going to do anything to Kawhi Leonard's legacy that he wanted more money.

[David Sampson]

He blinked, obviously.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[Calais Campbell]

No one would just take 45, like, for fun.

[David Sampson]

I remember a lunch we had where a kid came and we took a couple pictures with the kids, and that got really. That got dicey because the kid sat in Dan's seat and it was a whole thing. Gary was talking to us about Nazis. It was a crazy meeting.

[Roy]

What.

[Chris Cody]

What's on me?

[Mike Ryan]

That's on you for, you know, agreeing to pose for 45 minutes worth of photos. That's ridiculous. I mean, come on. You know, and the other thing is, we're still trying to wrap our head around you burying the lead on that story where you got the. The Irvin White house in the 20th paragraph. Where's your news judgment on something like that?

[Chris Cody]

I mean, it seems like an immorality. It seems like something that. Players having a house where they have affairs.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah. So why wasn't that your lead?

[Chris Cody]

Again, an immorality? It's just a. I mean, it's a little thing on the side. It's not this story. It's not a story that has those kind of ramifications. It's just a gossipy TMZ thing.

[Mike Ryan]

It's bigger.

[Chris Cody]

It was bigger because it was the Cowboys.

[Mike Ryan]

Exactly.

[Chris Cody]

If I'd reported it was the Tampa Bay Bucks at the time, nobody would have cared.

[Mike Ryan]

Zagaki.

[Chris Cody]

That's the way you do that.

[Mike Ryan]

That should have been in the documentary. The Jerry Jones documentary.

[Pablo Torre]

Greg.

[Mike Ryan]

I didn't see that.

[Chris Cody]

It was. It was in the documentary because there was nothing fresh in that documentary. They stole everybody else's reporting.

[Mike Ryan]

I'll mention that to Greg. I think he saw it.

[Chris Cody]

Is there any reason that you don't remember Greg's signature lines? Because the gacky is something I was.

[Gary]

Expecting you to say even though he's very much on camera as Greg, that kind of thing.

[Chris Cody]

Can we come up with a contest to get you a new expression to utter? Because you're using the old recycled tired ones. And I'm wondering whether it is we should just have a contest where you take applicants for a saying you're going to start using.

[Mike Ryan]

Now, that sounds like something Greg would be interested in. Trailers for sale or anything. Room select. 50 cents. No food, no pole, no pets. I ain't got no cigarettes, but thank you. Thank you, everyone. That applause is really heartwarming.

[Gary]

It's the holidays and the 50th anniversary of Miller Life. The holidays are all about gathering around with family and friends. So why you bring out a cornucopia of that beautiful white canned Miller Lite or draft, whatever it is. You know it's going to be a special time when you bring out Miller Lite because Miller Lite makes special time. Miller Time. Whether it's a late night hang after the holiday party or standing around a fire pit with a fan, Miller Lite just fits. It's a taste you know you can depend on. Brewed for flavor with simple ingredients like malted barley, rich balanced toffee notes, and that iconic golden color. And at 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it lets you enjoy the season without weighing you down. The original light beer since 1975 and still hidden different 50 years later. The best holiday beers are the ones you don't expect. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.