The Big Suey: If You Say Geno Smith's Name ONE More Time...

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: If You Say Geno Smith's Name ONE More Time...

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz delves deep into the recent seismic shifts in the NFL, focusing primarily on Geno Smith's trade, the quarterback landscape, and notable player movements that have stirred conversations among fans and analysts alike. Hosted by Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, along with guests Amin Elhassan, Tony Kornheiser, Jessica Smetana, Greg Cote, Chris Whittingham, and Billy Corben, the episode titled "The Big Suey: If You Say Geno Smith's Name ONE More Time..." released on March 10, 2025, offers a comprehensive analysis of these developments.

Geno Smith’s Trade and Quarterback Evaluation

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Geno Smith's recent trade from Seattle to the Las Vegas Raiders. Amin Elhassan initiates the conversation, arguing, “I can make the argument that Geno Smith is a top 10 quarterback in the NFL” (02:44) despite his 15 interceptions last season. He attributes Smith's potential ranking to his resilience and performance metrics, suggesting that his turnover rate was influenced by factors like a poor offensive line rather than his inherent abilities.

Tony Kornheiser counters this by referencing NFL.com’s ranking, noting that Geno is placed 12th, emphasizing, “15 interceptions. Way, way a lot” (04:07). The debate intensifies as Greg Cote supports Amin’s stance, labeling Geno as a “top four quarterback in Seahawks history” and highlighting the strategic benefits of reuniting him with coach Pete Carroll in Las Vegas (12:18).

Predictive Analysis and Audience Engagement

The hosts shift focus to predictive analytics when Amin presents a bold forecast: “Geno Smith will throw for 4,000 yards, 30 touchdowns, and 11 interceptions this upcoming season” (25:26). This assertion is met with skepticism and playful challenges from guests like Jorge Sedano, who declares, “I will sit and do this show in my underpants” if Geno achieves these stats (25:30). This segment not only underscores the divided opinions on Smith’s capabilities but also engages the audience in a lighthearted wager on his performance.

DK Metcalf and George Pickens Trade Implications

Transitioning to the Pittsburgh Steelers, the discussion explores DK Metcalf's trade request and its implications alongside George Pickens. Amin questions the synergy between Keenan Allen and DK Metcalf, wondering, “How do DK Metcalf and Pickens fit together?” (04:21). The dialogue delves into the Steelers' quarterback dilemma, contemplating options like Aaron Rodgers, Justin Fields, Russell Wilson, and even Sam Darnold, reflecting on the team's strategic uncertainties (06:23).

Jessica Smetana adds layers to the conversation by questioning the economic aspects of the Steelers' strategy, such as quarterback salary caps and long-term commitments, stating, “Are you going to draft a quarterback? Are you going to get like a middle-level quarterback?” (07:31). This multifaceted analysis highlights the complexities NFL teams face in balancing talent acquisition with financial constraints.

Player Negociations and Contract Dynamics

Amin shifts the narrative toward Myles Garrett's trade request from the Cleveland Browns, critiquing the team's handling of star players seeking trades. He articulates a desire to see players exert more influence beyond financial negotiations, asserting, “I want a football player to have so much value that they do not care where they get the money and therefore exert their power against the system” (36:25). This perspective opens up a broader dialogue on player agency and organizational responsiveness within the NFL.

Greg Cote responds by analyzing Garrett's strategy, suggesting that Garrett effectively “used all the leverage” to secure a substantial contract despite the Browns’ reluctance to fulfill his trade request (34:05). The exchange underscores the tension between player aspirations and team management strategies, reflecting ongoing debates about fairness and power dynamics in professional sports.

Kevin Love vs. Bob Love: A Statistical Showdown

In a surprising detour, the hosts engage in a spirited debate comparing Kevin Love and Bob Love, particularly in the context of retiring their jerseys. Jessica Smetana presents statistical achievements of Kevin Love, highlighting his all-time defensive rebound percentages (22:47). The conversation takes a historical turn as Tony Kornheiser brings up Bob Love’s legacy with the Chicago Bulls, sparking a debate over which Love better warrants jersey retirement (22:53).

Greg Cote encourages audience participation by suggesting a poll on who deserves the honor more, reflecting the show's interactive approach to sports discourse (23:00). This segment not only entertains but also invites listeners to weigh in on NBA history’s nuanced comparisons.

Concluding Insights and Future Predictions

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reaffirm their positions while acknowledging the ongoing debates. Amin emphasizes the necessity for accurate evaluations beyond entrenched opinions, while Greg maintains his optimistic view of Geno Smith's fit with the Raiders (31:06). Jessica Smetana and Tony Kornheiser balance the conversation by recognizing both Geno Smith’s potential and limitations, ensuring a well-rounded closure to the intense discussions.

Dan LeBatard’s closing remarks underscore the broader implications of these trades and player movements, reflecting on the continuous evolution of team dynamics and player careers in the NFL (40:29). The episode concludes with a blend of analysis, debate, and humor, encapsulating the vibrant and multifaceted nature of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz.

Notable Quotes

• Amin Elhassan (02:44): “I can make the argument that Geno Smith is a top 10 quarterback in the NFL.”

• Tony Kornheiser (04:07): “15 interceptions. Way, way a lot.”

• Amin Elhassan (25:26): “30 touchdowns, 11 interceptions.”

• Jorge Sedano (25:30): “I will sit and do this show in my underpants.”

• Amin Elhassan (36:25): “I want a football player to have so much value that they do not care where they get the money and therefore exert their power against the system.”

Conclusion

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz offers a rich tapestry of sports analysis, player evaluations, and strategic discussions that resonate with NFL enthusiasts. Through passionate debates and insightful commentary, the hosts dissect the implications of recent trades and player performances, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the evolving landscape of professional football.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[Stugots]

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Stugots]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Mike Ryan]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Stugots]

Just like that?

[Mike Ryan]

Yep.

[Stugots]

No hassle?

[Greg Cote]

None.

[Stugots]

That is super convenient.

[Dan LeBatard]

Sell your car to Carvana and swap.

[Billy Corben]

Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.

[Stugots]

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Stugots]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Mike Ryan]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency. No interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Stugots]

Just like that.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Stugots]

No hassle?

[Greg Cote]

None.

[Stugots]

That is super convenient.

[Dan LeBatard]

Sell your car to Carvana and swap.

[Billy Corben]

Hassle for convenience. Pickup fees may apply.

[Amin Elhassan]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show, the podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry. I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the habitual liar.

[Chris Whittingham]

This episode of the Dan LeBatard show with Stugots is presented by Smirnoff. We do game days. Please drink responsibly. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York.

[Amin Elhassan]

We will check in with Roy from the Panthers press conference. Marchand has been introduced. He's wearing the red. He says it brings out the color in his eyes. He will be on the road trip with the the Panthers as it begins in Boston where he will say hello to his ex teammates. And that one's going to be something that hurts Boston fans.

[Jessica Smetana]

That's logistically stupid, right? Make him come down here for a press conference just to go right back to Boston. What do we do that for? Just wait.

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's a good point. It's not like he's playing right now. Why did he fly down here?

[Amin Elhassan]

They could have just introduced him in Boston.

[Chris Whittingham]

I mean, he's on the team now. I'm sure he's looking for an apartment around here. The idea that he's just going to.

[Greg Cote]

Stay up there for three weeks, a delay Practice. You want a delayed onboarding with a new franchise, you'll get it. I mean, I don't want him playing regardless, so go for it.

[Amin Elhassan]

I want to talk to you guys about some of the movement in football over the weekend. DK Metcalf requested a trade in Seattle. The Geno Smith era in Seattle, as he gets traded to the Raiders. And the Raiders say, we want stability at coach and quarterback. And so we're going to get Geno Smith and Pete Carroll. I think I can argue that Geno Smith is a top 10 quarterback. Quarterback. It's a bit of a rhetorical trick. At one point, I said that Rex Grossman was one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL because he slid in at number 10 when he was making it to the Super Bowl. Geno Smith was unlucky in a couple of fronts. He turned the ball over more than he should have according to the Metrics. He had 15 interceptions, but he was unlucky. He was pretty good with the football and pretty good with the football, even though that offensive line is bad. I don't think in Las Vegas with Bowers that they have the skill guys that Seattle had. But I asked you guys what you make of Geno Smith and the Geno Smith era in Seattle. Do you guys remember anything? Did that. Did that era win a playoff game? He could throw for 4,000 yards. He was better than any of us thought he would ever be. And I can make the argument that he fits in the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL. You made a face.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Yeah. I don't think anybody other than you is calling Geno Smith a top 10 quarterback.

[Amin Elhassan]

It's a rhetorical trick. Once you get into 8, 9 and 10, you're talking about interchangeable pieces.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, I'm looking@an NFL.com ranking here. They do have him 12, which is higher than. Than I would have him. Like you say, he. He's a turnover guy. You know, 15 interceptions. Way, way a lot. And no matter what the metrics say, that's still a lot of turnover.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, wait a minute, though. The metrics do require some examination because he's got as many interceptions. Cousins and Baker had more, but his offensive line was bad. And I want to do the assessment on DK Metcalf. What's Pittsburgh doing here? Are they going to keep Metcalf and Pickens? Are they going to keep Metcalf and Pickens? And now what's this sourcing that has Aaron Rodgers as some. Some in Pittsburgh that is being linked to Pittsburgh? I thought when they Got DK Metcalf. I was of the opinion that they, they were doing that for Russell Wilson. That signaled to me that there was going to be something between Russell Wilson and DK Metcalf. How do DK Metcalf and Pickens fit together?

[Chris Whittingham]

What are we doing there with that? That's just they have two good receivers now and they had one and now they have two. They were doing that on the other room like they're the same guy. It's like, yeah, they're both good.

[Tony Kornheiser]

They're going to find a quarterback.

[Amin Elhassan]

They're not the same guy. And Pickens, I don't know. Pickens is unusual and there seem to be issues in Pittsburgh in the locker room, and it made it seem to me like Pickens wasn't going to be there very much longer, independent of DK Metcalf.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I'm not a father, but I can tell you it's possible they could trade George Pickens and get that second round pick back. But this was a desperate need for the Steelers last season. They really needed more bodies at the wide receiver position. They tried to trade for Mike Williams and they got a couple touchdowns out of him, but it wasn't like it didn't change anything. And then when Pickens was hurt, the offense completely fell apart. They really didn't have any downfield threats for Russell Wilson. So this is something I think the Steelers needed to do. But there's still obviously a question of who is going to actually be their quarterback now. Because it could be Aaron Rodgers. It sounds like it still could be Justin Fields or Russell Wilson, but maybe leans more towards Russell Wilson. Of the two of them, it could be like a fourth option. It could be Sam Darnold. It just maybe they should have looked harder at Stafford. There's no really great options right now for teams like Pittsburgh and Seattle who are going to need quarterbacks for next season because this is a pretty weak quarterback draft and free agency is not. A lot of these teams don't want to pay these players the contracts that they're about to earn because they're just not that great.

[Chris Whittingham]

Do we believe this Aaron Rodgers interest popping up a lot of places feels like spin from an agent just trying to keep his name in there.

[Greg Cote]

It's interesting how it's being reported because it's just like Schefter constantly opening up the door like, hey, they're talking about him. And that's kind of the reporting that we get on it, which was kind of what happened this morning, which is as they still try to have conversations with Justin Fields and Russell Wilson. Another name that's being invoked is Aaron Rodgers. And that's kind of how the reporting is being done that Aaron always seems like someone's like plan B, plan C for the Steelers.

[Jessica Smetana]

It also like, what is Russ's number? Because it's not a million dollars a year, which is what they had him for last year, right? So like now that they've given DK $30 million, how much are you going to give to the quarterback? Like, are you going to draft a quarterback? Are you going to get like a middle level quarterback? You have Fields that you could get probably for cheaper than you can get Russ at this point. And like the Aaron Rodgers thing, I mean any team that has a quarterback need now that's looking for an established quarterback, even though he didn't have a great season last year is better than, you know, gambling on a Kirk cousin, Daniel Jones maybe, right?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I agree. Aaron Rodgers, the second half of last season was really good. If you look at his second half numbers, he was Pro bowl quality just in the second half. But he got so much heat for not lifting the jets and, and that's rightful heat. But still he's got something left. I would much rather have Aaron Rodgers. I'm surprised the Raiders didn't sign him. And me, I would rather have Aaron Rodgers than Geno Smith as my starting point.

[Jessica Smetana]

But he's a stopgap, right? Like you're just getting him for basically next season and then working. If you're close enough and you need a serviceable quarterback, you take a chance on Aaron Rodgers. Or if you're a terrible team that just wants to make a splashy move, you get Aaron Rodgers.

[Dan LeBatard]

But I feel like we all have like Aaron Rodgers amnesia for some reason. Like the reason the jets were bad the first half this season was also because of Aaron Rodgers. Like, yeah, cool. Like they turned things around for the last five meaningless games of the season. But like, do we not remember the whole thing thing for the last two years? I understand why a team wouldn't want to sign him.

[Jessica Smetana]

The Vikings make sense in that JJ McCarthy missed all of last season with an injury. So you still don't really know what you have in J.J. mcCarthy. So like if he is still your plan going forward, you bring in Aaron Rodgers for a season to get you to jj Because JJ after sitting out a season, probably isn't ready to be your starter. And I don't think that you're ready to commit to Sam Darnold long term, which is probably what Sam Darnold is looking for this offseason.

[Amin Elhassan]

Aaron Rodgers isn't going to be a backup.

[Jessica Smetana]

No, he's not going to be a backup. That's what we're saying. He's going to be a starter.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm saying JJ McCarthy is their future there. So much so that they're willing to let go of a Sam Darnold who performed well with those skill guys and who I don't believe Aaron Rodgers is going to be going anywhere where he's not allowed to be the starter. But the thing I wanted to talk to you about that I always have difficulties untangling, and I remember the first time I had difficulties untangling it. The the Dallas Cowboys Champion Dallas Cowboys had Michael Irvin and Alvin Harper. Both of them thought they were number one receivers. Alvin Harper was a number two receiver. Alvin Harper became a number one receiver for Tampa and wasn't as good in Tampa because he didn't have Michael Irvin. DK Metcalf the last couple of seasons and I asked the audience this do you consider him not in body type and looks a number one receiver? Do you consider him in production a number one receiver? Because the last couple of seasons he's got like 60 catches a season and that's generally not what I associate with a number one receiver. Now there are a couple of franchises and only a couple that now have the benefit that Belichick used to have whenever he added Ochocinko and Albert Haynesworth. And people said, well, the must know something, he's great, he's going to get something out of him. And then he didn't. Devonte Adams goes to the Rams and all of us are like, ah, that's going to. That's going to be something with the Rams, like whatever it hasn't been the last couple of years. I think that that's going to something with the Rams. DK Metcalf is what when I present him to you and say who's more likely to be a real number one the way that you expect them to be a number one this year and going forward, Pickens or DK Metcalf because there's going to be a pecking order in Pittsburgh and then you get into the A.J. brown situation in Philadelphia where he's a number one, he knows he's a number one and the moment he stops being a number one, he starts getting mad about things.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think DK Metcalf is a legitimate number one receiver at his size 6 4. With his speed, I think he's a number one. He's got 48 career touchdowns in five or six years. He's, he's 27. He's in his prime. Receivers, you know, he's got another good few years.

[Amin Elhassan]

You associate 66 catches with a number one receiver. 60. Because what he does is he's not always open. He's. He gets you some touchdowns. But 66 catches is pretty, that's not a high usage rate. That's a guy who's getting shut down in some games. And the number ones in this league don't really get shut down.

[Greg Cote]

They also have three good receivers in Seattle that they, they spread the wealth to with Lockett and jsn. So I think that DK Metcalf, I am a little worried. Big bodied wide receivers historically drop off a little bit earlier, but they have two good wide receivers. I think a lot. What a lot of people are doing is they have the same jersey number. How's that going to work out between Pickens and DK Method?

[Dan LeBatard]

That is a good question. Who is going to wear 14 next pickens? If they're both on the Steelers?

[Greg Cote]

I mean you're the new guy. You got to get a new number. I eat.

[Dan LeBatard]

But if you're the guy that just signed the huge contract, are you going to pay for the number?

[Chris Whittingham]

Money talks, as we learned with Miles Garrett.

[Amin Elhassan]

Can you guys find any images that suggest that DK Metcalf already has a lot of jewelry with number 14 on it and is going to pay a good deal of money in order to have that number so that he could either keep his jewelry or sell it to George Becker?

[Greg Cote]

To answer the original question, I think Geno Smith is a top four quarterback in Seahawks history and he's borderline jersey retirement guy. And if he were around when they had some of their better teams, they would have had the same number of super bowl wins at the very least.

[Dan LeBatard]

Geno Smith, we're doing Hasselbeck, we're doing Wilson. Who's the third?

[Greg Cote]

I think you go Craig.

[Amin Elhassan]

Jim Zorn.

[Greg Cote]

Zorn over Craig.

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean the numbers are so different. I'm guessing Jim Zorn threw a million interceptions at a time when people threw a million interceptions. And so he probably does an 8.

[Greg Cote]

In terms of passing yardage for that franchise. Geno Smith is fifth last year in terms of passing yardage. Geno Smith was four. I think it's a great deal for all parties. I think that they're not going to keep Geno Smith long term in Seattle. They want to tether a quarterback, a franchise quarterback to this head coach. We're at the tail end of Geno Smith's career for the Raiders. It's a great idea. No one was really thinking that Geno Smith was available. They missed out on Stafford. You have Brady kind of intertwined with their decisions there. You have Geno kind of hold it down for a year, maybe bring up a guy that you develop. It's a perfect, perfect trade and you reunite him with a coach that he had some success with in Pete Carroll.

[Chris Whittingham]

DK Metcalf wore 14 in college. George Pickens at Georgia wore number one. So Pickens could look back. Is there number one on the Steelers right now? Maybe he could switch to one.

[Tony Kornheiser]

By the way, George Pickens in three seasons has 52, 63 and 59 catches. It's not like he's 100 catch a year.

[Amin Elhassan]

Oh, but I'm still It's also a.

[Dan LeBatard]

Run first offense that hasn't had a great quarterback.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But neither is. Neither is Metcalf. You could argue to that point.

[Chris Whittingham]

I don't think either of them are going to be a hundred catch guy with the Steelers. They're not going to change their whole way of doing.

[Dan LeBatard]

But Geno Smith in 2022 was better than anything the Steelers have had since Ben Roethlisberger retired.

[Amin Elhassan]

Greg's doing unfair things to Geno Smith when he's comparing him unfavorably to a 40 year old Aaron Rodgers. And he's doing so because of the history of Geno Smith more than he's doing than the recent Geno Smith. Like he's going 10 years on Geno Smith when he's getting punched by a teammate in the jets locker room. And whatever the numbers were back then, Geno Smith has reinvented himself almost entirely. But I asked the group and I asked the audience did they win a playoff game with Geno Smith there? Because they may have, but I don't remember it.

[Greg Cote]

I don't think so. I know that they gave San Francisco a run for their money at San Francisco in the playoffs, but I don't think they want to play.

[Amin Elhassan]

But I think this is what we do with Geno Smith. We oversimplify this based on both his past and the fact that we assume associate quarterbacks with winning in a way that's not totally fair given that there are a lot of things that go into winning. But Gino Smith, I feel like everyone listening to this knows that what you're going to get with Geno Smith is you're going to be a 500 team that's not going to win in the Playoffs, no matter what team that's put Steelers.

[Dan LeBatard]

Also the number one jersey is retired in Pittsburgh, by the way. Has not been reissued in a long time.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Who wore it?

[Dan LeBatard]

Gary Anderson.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The kicker.

[Amin Elhassan]

The kicker. The kicker.

[Chris Whittingham]

One with the one face mask.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The one Gary I was talking about too many numbers being retired, man.

[Amin Elhassan]

You weren't talking about that. Is Greg doing this unfairly with Geno Smith? Because I don't think Geno Smith has been able to erase with Greg what his reputation is. Even though over the last three or four seasons Geno Smith has been a.

[Chris Whittingham]

Wildly productive quarterback, he still throws a lot of interceptions.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I'm aware that that two or three years ago he had a big comeback season. Okay. At this point in his career, for me, Geno Smith is a great veteran backup or a guy who you can trust to be your stopgap starter while you wait for J.J. mcCarthy to bloom. Something like that. I just don't see him as a guy you sign thinking, all right, we're solved now we got four or five years of a great quarterbacking. I just don't think he's that guy.

[Jessica Smetana]

But he's also taking over a team that was 4 and 13 that didn't have a quarterback. So like even if he gets you to 500, that is a huge upgrade to from where the Raiders were last season.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay, but Tom Brady knows better than anybody. Is that your answer? Is this a guy you're satisfied?

[Jessica Smetana]

I mean, maybe not long term, but like you just signed Max Crosby who you're going to be building around, right? And he commanded a lot of money. Are you going to overtake the Chiefs in the AFC West? Probably not. You're probably playing for a wild card card spot. If you get 9, 10 wins, you can make the playoffs. Geno Smith can give you that.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'd like to read you some things that I think run counter empirically to what it is. Greg thinks he's right about here when he just looks at 15 interceptions and that is his assessment of Geno Smith. This is. And you don't tend to like this stuff from Pro Football Focus, but I'm just going to read it, okay? Because it does a deeper dive on those turnovers than you are presently doing. Per Pro Football Focus, Smith had a league average turnover worthy play rate of 2.6% that tied him with Josh Allen, the league's MVP. Josh Allen was wildly efficient when it came to turnovers this year and it puts him ahead of tua, Jordan, Love, Goff, Stafford, Darnold and Hertz, all of whom had better offensive line play than Geno smith. He ranks 14th in career dropbacks among active players with 10 of the players above him having entered the league after him. Per true media. It makes him harder to evaluate based on true talent level, but he did throw a lot of passes over his three seasons as Seattle starter. Only Mahomes had more drop backs over that span. And according to Pro Football Focus is grading, only six quarterbacks performed better than Geno Smith during that time. Their names are Burrow, Lamar, Jackson, Justin, Herbert, Allen, Mahomes and tua.

[Greg Cote]

Easy upgrade for for their Ross here. Much better than Minshu, O'Connell, Ritter.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Well that's true. I'll admit that they need to get.

[Greg Cote]

The running game in order but sneaky thing about the Raiders is they had 2000 yard rece Bowers and Jacoby Myers in 15 games. Also had more than 1000 yards receiving this year. Just did it with very little fanfare because they weren't playing meaningful games.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean why do you think Geno Smith went 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 like eight years in a row in his career without being a starting quarterback? Starting two games in an eight year period? I think you're talking like you're Geno Smith's agent and stats can be maneuvered and jiggered and wiggled to say just about anything. You can look at pro Football focus, you can look at that kind of analytics and come up with any reason why any quarterback but Greg, it's got.

[Amin Elhassan]

More information than your opinion which is just based on five years ago. Like what you thought five years ago and hasn't changed. There's more empirical data and what yes, you can make it say anything but what I just made it say was pretty impressive.

[Jessica Smetana]

But what you guys are arguing is Greg saying he's the 12th best quarterback and you're saying he's the 10. So what are we actually really arguing about sports?

[Tony Kornheiser]

I mean he's saying He's a top 10 quarterback in the NFL. I'm saying at this point in his career he's a great veteran backup if you want a veteran backup as a safety net and he's a guy that you're fine as a one year stopgap.

[Chris Whittingham]

I think it's somewhere in the middle between both of you.

[Greg Cote]

11 so historically not something that you say about someone that's top four in passing yards in the league.

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugots]

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Stugots]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Mike Ryan]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Stugots]

Just like that.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Stugots]

No hassle?

[Greg Cote]

None.

[Stugots]

That is super convenient.

[Dan LeBatard]

Sell your car to Carvana and swap hassle for convenience.

[Billy Corben]

Pick up fees may apply.

[Greg Cote]

Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. I talk to you about Miller time all the time, but we're in the wintertime right now, and one of my favorite pastimes is to crack open a Miller Light and enjoy myself some Miller time during the wintertime. Because when there's a brisk chill in the air, it just makes everything right. My friends and I who live down here in South Florida can actually sit outside because it's not super muggy. We can thoroughly enjoy our Miller time together. And for you listening, I know there's a lot of things going on right now. Sports cheap among them. Nothing more important than sports. From basketball and hockey to game night, winter means more moments with the coolest people in your life. Make these moments even better with Miller Lite, the great tasting light beer for people who love beer. Now's the perfect time for friends, family, and a great tasting light beer tastes like Miller Time. And you know, Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers and at just 96 calories and 3.2 grams of carbs per 12 ounces, miller time is always a good time. Miller Lite Great Taste, 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up Some Miller Lite. Pretty much anywhere they sell beer tastes like Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Jessica Smetana]

Don LeBatard Stugats More sports this is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats. I was looking up, by the way, since you guys are talking about stats and how you can manipulate stats to tell you anything you want. Because we were talking about Kevin Love earlier and retiring him. And why are they retiring him? I found three Cleveland Cavalier stats in which Kevin Love is the all time defensive rebound percentage, defensive rebounds per 36 minutes and defensive rebounds per 100 possessions. So there you go. All time great in three random stats.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There you go. Not even the best love in NBA history. Bob Love, Chicago Bulls.

[Amin Elhassan]

Put them next to each other. Is Bob Love indeed better than Kevin Love? I don't know his career enough to know whether Bob Love is indeed better than Kevin Love.

[Greg Cote]

Do we put this on the poll? Bob Love, Chicago Bulls. Let's go. Yes or no?

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes. Put that on the poll at LeBatard show and tell me all you know about Bob Love. Because I really do believe that at this point and I think you should be allowed at your age, you've settled so comfortably into your ignorance that there is no new information. I can't. That I can give you that you wouldn't wave off with a hand because you already know better and you're like facts and stats and data and all of your proof. Otherwise I dismiss it based on my gut feeling.

[Tony Kornheiser]

The easiest stat to dismiss is passing yards. You put up. You put any backup quarterback in the right offense with the right receivers and he's going to pass.

[Amin Elhassan]

But wait a minute. Let's just. Just wait a minute, okay? It's a hard position to play. There aren't many good ones. What would Geno Smith have to do? What. What would I have to present to you to change your mind that's already formed and hardened about what Geno Smith is, what you think him to be when what he's been in this league has been somebody statistically. I still maintain, if you can get the sound of how accurate this was, I think it's one of. It's gotta be the most amazing prediction in the history of our show. Where am mean? Before a season started when everyone's opinion was what yours is of Geno Smith, Amin Elhassan, our basketball expert, gave us a prediction on what it is that Geno Smith would do that season and those statistics that he predicted that we all thought were outlandish were good enough. Greg, that you would want it to be your quarterback for all but five or six of the teams in the league. Because we will put next to the prediction, we will get you the actual stats.

[Jorge Sedano]

I cannot believe that an NFL team in 2022 is entering the year with Geno Smith as their quarterback.

[Greg Cote]

Scorching hot take. We'll see Drew Lock this season.

[Jorge Sedano]

Yeah, of course we'll see a third. We'll see a third quarterback. We'll see them be linked with every. Like Jimmy Garoppolo is going to get waived. He might go there like. I just, I just can't fathom. I can't fathom that an NFL team decided after eight months of like being able to plan for a draft for free agency for quarterbacks coming available via trade. They're like, you know what we're going to do? Geno Smith, I submit to you 4,000.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yards for Geno Smith.

[Jorge Sedano]

Impossible.

[Amin Elhassan]

30 studies, 11 ints.

[Jorge Sedano]

I will sit if that exact stat line happens. I will sit and do this show in my underpants. There is no way. Career 34 touchdowns, 37 interceptions. You should have to do better than.

[Dan LeBatard]

Half from your bathtub.

[Amin Elhassan]

34.

[Jorge Sedano]

Sure, why not? I'll do a show for my bathtub if Geno Smith does this for yourself.

[Greg Cote]

King.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow.

[Greg Cote]

All right, let me write that down. 4K 4000.

[Jorge Sedano]

What'd you say? 32 touchdowns, 11 interceptions.

[Jessica Smetana]

30 and 11.

[Amin Elhassan]

30 touchdowns, 11.

[Jorge Sedano]

I will do the show from my bathtub if this happens.

[Chris Whittingham]

So he said 4,000 yards, 30 touchdowns, 11 interceptions that season. Gino Smith, 4,300 yards, 30 touchdowns, 11 interceptions.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's nuts.

[Dan LeBatard]

And Bob Love has his number retired from by the Bulls. Number 10.

[Amin Elhassan]

Put their stats next to each other. Bob Love and Kevin Love, I want to put them next to each other.

[Dan LeBatard]

Bob Love, three time all star. Kevin Love, Billy.

[Jessica Smetana]

Well, five, but only two times for the Cavs. So Cavs, I mean, I don't know why they're retiring.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Bob Love had like a six or seven, eight year period in the middle of his career year where he was top 20 in MVP voting each year. Top 20?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, he was averaging 20, 22 points and seven rebounds.

[Chris Whittingham]

Tyler Heroes, 20 in MVP voting.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He was top five a couple of years.

[Jessica Smetana]

I think Bob Loves, number 41 is also retired by the Southern Jaguars.

[Tony Kornheiser]

There you go. That's the biggest honor of all.

[Amin Elhassan]

Are you guys going to just skip past how amazing that amine prediction was like that it's and. And that Kevin, that Chris Whittingham hasn't actually paid off what he owes. Any of what he owes, but especially that he did.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like in a shower. It didn't count. Obviously. We also. We always talk about how right Amin is, but we never talk about how wrong Chris and Tony were in this.

[Jessica Smetana]

Or how wrong Amin is all the other times.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I think the funniest thing was witty referring to underpants. Who says the word underpants?

[Amin Elhassan]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard show. Do you use the word underpants? Yes or no?

[Jessica Smetana]

There's only two other Southern Jaguars who have their number retired. Avery Johnson and Bobby Phils.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Wow. How about that?

[Jessica Smetana]

A lot of Bulls have their numbers retired.

[Tony Kornheiser]

See, that's good intel. I don't need a breakdown of useless analytics. I want stats like that.

[Dan LeBatard]

The Bulls only have a couple players with their numbers retired.

[Jessica Smetana]

More than three?

[Dan LeBatard]

I think four.

[Jessica Smetana]

Well, more than three.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't know if you count. I mean, do you count executives? Because Phil Jackson and Jerry Krause are like ring of honor or whatever they call it there.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, they probably rescinded Krause though. They boom now in that arena.

[Greg Cote]

I've gone back.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's not nice.

[Greg Cote]

I've gone back 20 years and I haven't found a single MVP awards voting that has been made public that has 20 names on it. One of the weirdest I found is 17.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Times change. Back in the 60s and 70s, they released everything.

[Jessica Smetana]

Yeah.

[Tony Kornheiser]

You know, back then you didn't have analytics. You had points per game and that was all you needed. Assists and rebounds. The big three.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let me, let me ask you guys this question. I don't know if you saw that Darius Slay gave his list of elite quarterbacks and it's what you would presume it would be. It's Burrow Mahomes, it's Lamar and it's Josh Allen. That's his top tier.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Oh, no. Geno.

[Mike Ryan]

Huh?

[Greg Cote]

Huh?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Odd.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, no, Jaylen Herz was the part that's odd cuz it's his teammate and the super bowl mvp. And the part of that that was surprising is usually they just lie in that spot. What are you laughing about, Billy? No, Gino Smith.

[Jessica Smetana]

He's right. Yeah, Gino.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, that's true.

[Greg Cote]

It is.

[Dan LeBatard]

It is.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, Gino Smith.

[Greg Cote]

You know, I cannot believe how much we've debated Gino Smith.

[Jessica Smetana]

10 versus 12.

[Greg Cote]

It's crazy. I mean, it's parson here.

[Dan LeBatard]

March.

[Tony Kornheiser]

I. Oh, let me just say I don't think I'm disrespecting Geno Smith nearly as much as you're overestimating.

[Chris Whittingham]

That's why this is an annoying conversation because neither of you are doing that. We're just kind of living in the middle.

[Greg Cote]

But this is my 10 to 14 here.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, but this is my larger point. The larger point is both of those teams end up being nowhere franchises because they can only get the 10th best quarterback and that ends up making you 9 and 8 or 8 and 9 every single season. And so Pete Carroll just wants the stability of give me the guy that I know so that I could get my feet settled here and I don't have to do Minshew for a season when we all know what that is and it ain't Geno Smith. Minshew. Like what Greg is describing Geno Smith as is what Minshew actually is. I believe he's being unfair to Geno Smith because Minshew has gotten enough opportunities to be Geno Smith and hasn't been it in any of the offenses that he's been in.

[Tony Kornheiser]

But you're also saying Geno Smith is basically a.500 quarterback who's not going to win a playoff game.

[Amin Elhassan]

I said what I that's a top 10 quarterback. No, what I'm saying is it's impossible to do the evaluations and disentangle everybody from everyone else. And it becomes very hard to make accurate assessments on what someone is when he's got a bad offensive line, he's got good wide receivers and he's in a lot of trouble and he's unlucky when it comes to turnovers. At least last year that it becomes very hard to make an accurate assessment on what that is. And it becomes very hard to change anybody's mind on what they already So.

[Greg Cote]

I brought attention to the ongoing Geno Smith debate so you guys would take inventory of the situation and maybe share some regret. Instead, you took that as an opportunity to quadruple down on your very passionate conviction filled Geno Smith takes.

[Chris Whittingham]

Might ban his name for the rest of the show if we keep doing this.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay, well, you guys don't want to talk quarterbacks all of a sudden.

[Greg Cote]

I love talking quarterbacks, but this is like a solid move for Raiders. We understand why they did it. We understand why the Seahawks did it. Upgraded the position for the Raiders. I think even Greg would agree with that.

[Chris Whittingham]

So we have three more mentions of his name on this show aloud.

[Jessica Smetana]

I mean, it's a good move by all teams involved. Right? The Seahawks didn't want to pay him $40 million a year. The Raiders needed a quarterback.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Okay. He's better than Aiden O'Connell and Gardner Minshew. All right. I'll give you that. He's not even the best Gino of all time.

[Jessica Smetana]

Who's the best Gino?

[Tony Kornheiser]

Gino Vanelli, let alone top 10 quarterback Gino Fuentes.

[Dan LeBatard]

The worst.

[Amin Elhassan]

You guys do understand that basically what you're doing is that 20 teams in that sport aren't worth ever talk. That's what you're doing. That there are 20 teams that you guys just don't want to talk about and that's fine.

[Chris Whittingham]

I was good with this conversation the first time we did it.

[Greg Cote]

Yes. I think we all were. I'm in on it. I like going through. I like stats. I like digging through these Pro bowl years of Geno Smith and say, man, more people should have paid attention to that.

[Chris Whittingham]

That's one.

[Greg Cote]

Yeah. But there you go. I'm good with it.

[Amin Elhassan]

I would say that one of the items from the football weekend that I found most interesting in negotiations is that Myles Garrett didn't make the mess that I was hoping that he would make. Because I found curious the sequence of events that happened here where Myles Garrett requests a trade. This is a new thing now. DK Metcalf requests a trade. Trey Hendrickson has requested a trade. All over the league in football, there are players suddenly requesting trades because they realize that the money is drying up or going to some of their teammates.

[Greg Cote]

But.

[Amin Elhassan]

But the sequence on Myles Garrett was he requests a trade. And then the reporting is that Cleveland's owner, Jimmy Haslam refuses to meet with Garrett. And when I read that, I'm like, that seems really unwise. Also feels really interesting to have an owner lording over the proceedings in a way where he just refuses a meeting with his star player who is unhappy. And then the next thing you know, Myles Garrett sides for more than Max Crosby, more than any player in the league. League who's not a quarterback. And if I were Myles Garrett, I would have wanted my money elsewhere. I don't trust that organization with the next three years of my career. I'm going to waste the next three years of my career breaking my body just for money. And I'm going to spend all three years losing. If I were Myles Garrett, I would have tested my talent against the system and made whatever mess I needed to make and taken the fines of whatever mess I would have made. And in my next signing, because my talent is so large charge, I would have gotten my money back.

[Chris Whittingham]

You would have Jimmy Butler.

[Amin Elhassan]

I would have not. Jimmy Butler did, but Jimmy Butler did for football. When there's the common understanding from everyone watching, yeah, they betrayed that guy. Everyone watching that says, yeah, they did. Deshaun Watson there, and he's got no help. Myles Garrett cannot succeed under those circumstances.

[Jessica Smetana]

Yeah, but they just gave him 123 and a half million dollars guaranteed, 40 million dollars a year, and he's someone that has an injury history. So, like, the idea of, you know what? I'm just going to sit out and not play, and then I'll get it next time around isn't actually an option for Miles Garrett when he has all that money guaranteed that he may not get next year if he gets injured.

[Greg Cote]

Miles Garrett did make it as messy as possible. I mean, you could say, like, I guess he could have been more of a baby about it, but he came out with his trade request. He actually got the fans behind his trade request. And he did the media circuit all throughout Radio Row and the super bowl about his trade request. What happened was it's an already impossible contract to move. Even with his superlative production. They probably gave him here the options. They never deviated from the fact that they never wanted to trade him, and they decided to make the problem go away by giving it the biggest contract ever for someone that's not a quarterback. And Miles Garrett, I know you'd like to do some role play here. Saw the situation laid out. The entire lay of the land, knew that he had the weird. He was in the weird position of being a franchise player in the prime of his career, and yet the fans still understood his trade requests, and he still decided to stay.

[Amin Elhassan]

You say he made it as messy as he could have. No, he didn't. The way that he makes it messiest is by actually wanting to leave and leaving for no amount of money.

[Jessica Smetana]

But he did it. He wanted money.

[Greg Cote]

He wanted money. He caved. So, like, if you're Miles Garrett, what you would have done is you would have signed the contract, because that's what Miles Garrett. Garrett did end up doing, which is he signed. Okay, give me the big money bomb. I'll take that. That's fine. Enough. Everybody understands where he was coming from. It wasn't easy to move. It wasn't fair value for them to move him. Not many teams could even take the backloaded contract. So ultimately, like, it was posturing. Miles Garrett, yeah, he was calling into question something that everybody agreed with. Someone saying that who has played those years for that franchise. Everybody understands that they've botched his career and that they're not doing enough winning. But that's a move in A negotiation. And Myles Garrett got what he wanted.

[Tony Kornheiser]

Exactly. If you're Miles Garrett, you posture, you say, I want to trade. I'm Mr. Competitive. I want to play for a contender. What you really want is the contract.

[Chris Whittingham]

Yeah. And then the agent says, okay, he's not happy. You want him happy. This is the number.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, you guys. But you guys misunderstand me. What I was hoping for is for a football player to be able to actually exert the power. Because he meant it. Because it wasn't about money. Because there. I want a football player to have so much value that they do not care where they get the money and therefore exert their power against the system.

[Jessica Smetana]

You want a football player that doesn't care about money. And that's not what this incident was.

[Greg Cote]

What am I missing? Like, he used all the power and he got the greatest deal ever. What is not.

[Amin Elhassan]

Which part are you not understanding on the team?

[Greg Cote]

You want him to just go to another team that doesn't have the cap room?

[Amin Elhassan]

I am wanting him to say, no amount of money keeps me in Cleveland. Get me out of here. I want to see how that looks in football when you actually have the talent to execute it.

[Greg Cote]

Okay. I think we've. We've seen it before. Le'Veon Bell before, and it didn't really work out for him like we. We've seen it. That's not what Miles Garrett's motivations were. If you want to like, craft a. A scenario.

[Amin Elhassan]

I do want to craft that scenario.

[Greg Cote]

And we're playing make believe.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes, we are. Thank you, guys. Yes, we are playing make believe with Miles Garrett, who isn't Le'Veon Bell. Miles Garrett represents a value in the NFL that not a lot of people have. And he wasn't going to risk injury by not playing. The mess I wanted him to make is to test all of the conservative powers in football that make it so that the system can land on the player. Which part of this are you guys not understanding about what I wanted here?

[Greg Cote]

I want name him like Joey football player because it's just not a real thing. Like he. He used all the leverage at.

[Amin Elhassan]

At his disposals. All the.

[Greg Cote]

He won.

[Amin Elhassan]

He used all the leverage. If all the leverage was only used to get money. If it was to get money and a better situation that doesn't ruin his career, he could have kept using that leverage.

[Greg Cote]

If you were a different. And he actually valued winning over money, then. Yeah, but he's not.

[Tony Kornheiser]

He gets to be more popular than ever in Cleveland right now. Cuz he's the guy who heroically resigned with the lowly Browns rather than go somewhere else. He gets all the money he ever imagined having. And maybe he loves living in Cleveland. Maybe he doesn't like. No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Jessica Smetana]

I mean, it's just for three years you've ever seen, but even three years, $120 million. I'd love living in Cleveland for that.

[Greg Cote]

I'm not crazy about how everyone just took that as fact. He likes Cleveland. He's a part of the community and he very.

[Dan LeBatard]

Most people would live in Cleveland for $40 million whether or not they liked it.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay?

[Tony Kornheiser]

That's a factor. Whether or not he likes where he's living. I don't care if you make fun of it or not. And I don't know whether he loves living in Cleveland. But if, but if he does, that's another reason.

[Amin Elhassan]

I do know he doesn't love living in Cleveland. I do know that.

[Greg Cote]

Is this Joey football player again?

[Chris Whittingham]

He's happy there because he's rich, but he, if he had his choice, he'd be like, he's not like, oh, this.

[Amin Elhassan]

Is where I'd be.

[Chris Whittingham]

Even retirement, you have no way of knowing.

[Dan LeBatard]

Where do you think he lives? In the Phillies.

[Chris Whittingham]

You think he stays there in retirement?

[Jessica Smetana]

He might.

[Greg Cote]

I think you'll have a home. I think you'll have a home there.

[Jessica Smetana]

That doesn't mean he doesn't like playing there now.

[Mike Ryan]

Right?

[Jessica Smetana]

He could like there.

[Chris Whittingham]

We're just making fun of Cleveland the place guys.

[Dan LeBatard]

And I mean Cleveland organization and this is so dystopian.

[Greg Cote]

This is one of the good stories. Yeah, it's what? It's a good story. A guy that has earned for that franchise the biggest contract they can hand hand out in the history of sports to a non corduroy quarterback. And he earned it. Everyone's happy. They get to keep their legend. He decided. You know what? I know I said a lot of hurtful things, but I got this contract and we're here, Cleveland. You're going to still see my smiling face. And we know we have all sorts of uncertainty around the quarterback position, but you're going to see my smiling face over there potentially throwing helmets at other people's heads.

[Jessica Smetana]

He also didn't say all that many hurtful things. Like you guys are saying Radio Row. Like here's a, here's a news flash. Everyone was told they couldn't ask him about the trade requests at Radio Row. Only one person was allowed to. It was Mina. And he said nothing. So like he said the day before he went to radio row. I want to be traded. And everyone that had him booked was like, you can't ask him about that. It's like, okay, so what do we ask him about? And that's exactly how that went.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, he, he said that the team he wanted to play for, a team that could like maybe win something.

[Jessica Smetana]

That's what you say when you want to leverage.

[Dan LeBatard]

I could see people being hurt by that. But to throw Dan a bone here, like, I, as a sports fan who's like, not really, like, I, I'm not. I don't really have a dog in this fight, like, yeah, I want to see the best players play for the best teams. And it is a bummer that one of the best players in the league is going to be on Cleveland Browns team that is in cap hell for the next how many years because they made the worst deal in NFL history to sign desean Watson.

[Jessica Smetana]

But the only way he could have played for one of the best teams was by making substantially less than what he's going to make. So why would he want to go and play for one of the best teams? So you guys can feel good in exchange for $20 million a year.

[Amin Elhassan]

It's not just so that we can feel good, but one of the things that I'm objecting to here is I don't want an all time talent winning four games a year and ruining the end of his career because they've got no chance. I'd like my all time talents to play in relevant football games. That's. And you're right, that's. He doesn't have to do that for me. But I want Joey Football X to be a hypothetical player. One of them to pick. Yeah, you know what? I would like to be relevant and play as an all time great on a team that actually makes the playoffs. Has a chance as opposed to this one.

[Dan LeBatard]

But I think the point is that like he, he got the money that he wanted so we can't put other desires into his heart that he may not have. Like, it seems like this was a happy ending, I guess.

[Greg Cote]

And it's all going to get fixed when they draft Cam Ward.

[Billy Corben]

All right, I know I got to do this ad read, but hold on, let me reapply.

[Amin Elhassan]

Did you hear that? Yep.

[Billy Corben]

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[Greg Cote]

Howdy folks. It's Mike Ryan. I talk to you about Miller Time all the time, but we're in the wintertime right now and one of my favorite pastimes is to crack open a Miller Light and enjoy myself some Miller Time during the wintertime. Because when there's a brisk chill in the air, it just makes everything right. My friends and I who live down here in South Florida can actually sit outside because it's not super muggy. We can thoroughly enjoy our Miller Time together. And for you listening, I know there's a lot of things going on right now. Sports cheap among them. Nothing more important than sports. From basketball and hockey to game night, winter means more moments with the coolest people in your life. Make these moments even better with Miller Lite, the great tasting light beer for people who love beer. Now's the perfect time for friends, family and a great tasting light beer. Tastes like Miller Time. And you know Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers and at just 96 California calories and 3.2 grams of carbs per 12 ounces, miller time is always a good time. Miller Lite Great Taste 96 calories Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer tastes like Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.