The Big Suey: Jeremy's Jimmy Butler Tears (Feat. David Samson)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: Jeremy's Jimmy Butler Tears (Feat. David Samson)
The Dan LeBatard Show with Stugotz
Release Date: January 6, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan LeBatard Show with Stugotz, the hosts delve deep into the tumultuous relationship between Miami Heat star Jimmy Butler and the franchise's front office, led by executive David Samson. The discussion centers around recent contract disputes, player incentives, and the broader implications for the Heat's organizational culture and future.

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Main Discussion Points

1. Player Incentives and Executive Decisions

The conversation kicks off with an analysis of Miami Heat executive David Samson's handling of player incentives, particularly focusing on a recent $3 million incentive related to Mike Evans.

• Billy Corben [03:23]: "Yeah, you just release them. No, George Michael, not Bono. You release them. You don't. You move him to the bullpen. If he's got an incentive based on games started or games finished, you don't let him finish games. There's no reason to have thrown $3 million away."

This segment highlights the strategic decisions made by the front office to manage payroll and incentives, sometimes at the expense of player contributions during crucial moments.

2. Impact on Miami Heat Culture

The hosts explore how these financial maneuvers affect the team's culture and player morale, especially concerning Jimmy Butler's standing within the organization.

• Dan LeBatard [07:19]: "What does game over mean?"

• Billy Corben [07:20]: "There. It's game over. I would move on. I'd move on from all."

The discussion reveals frustrations with how the front office's decisions undermine team cohesion and player trust, potentially destabilizing the team's performance.

3. Jimmy Butler's Contract Dispute

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Jimmy Butler's ongoing contract negotiations and his apparent dissatisfaction with the Miami Heat's handling of his contract extension.

• Dan LeBatard [20:18]: "If Jimmy Butler got an extension either, he never would have said anything and he would have finished out his career in Miami like he said he was going to do."

• Mike Ryan [21:06]: "I think he certainly has a lot more value because part of this value is teams would be looking at him as a rental. This is an expiring deal at his right."

The panelists debate whether offering Butler a long-term extension would have been beneficial or detrimental to both the player and the franchise, touching on Butler's influence and market value in the league.

4. Pat Riley's Role and Heat's Future

The episode scrutinizes Pat Riley's leadership and strategic decisions, questioning his adaptability in the face of changing sports dynamics and player expectations.

• Chris Cote [26:09]: "Jeremy, Jeremy, not maybe we'll let you go on that note, but I don't think the Heat ever anticipated. The job is to anticipate they've been left behind because the other people in their conference have anticipated."

• Mike Ryan [35:18]: "Pat Riley can stay here as long as he likes. He deserves to be. And he can like to his last breath. He deserves what he did to this franchise."

These insights suggest that Riley's traditional management style may be at odds with modern player relations and contractual negotiations, potentially hindering the team's competitiveness.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Billy Corben [03:50]: "Can you imagine if before a must-win game to get them to the playoffs, the Buccaneers last week, last cut, Mike Evans."

• Dan LeBatard [16:38]: "Happy January 6th, Dan. It's a real shitty situation."

• Chris Cote [17:05]: "Let's play that Paul Pierce sound, please."

• Paul Pierce [17:07]: "When you look at what Heat culture started when Shaq and Lonzo and Haslam and Wade and all got there..."

• Mike Ryan [21:33]: "Pat Riley can stay here as long as he likes. He deserves to be. And he can like to his last breath. He deserves what he did to this franchise."

• Dan LeBatard [26:10]: "But a major stink like this a month before it, I don't know that anyone should anticipate that considering what the relationship was for the last five years."

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Analysis and Insights

The panelists provide a multifaceted analysis of the situation, balancing financial strategies with player relations:

• David Sampson emphasizes the importance of understanding player incentives and the delicate balance executives must maintain to avoid undermining team morale. He questions the ethical implications of manipulating game outcomes for financial gain.

• Mike Ryan suggests that the Heat could have leveraged Butler's contract differently, possibly retaining more flexibility and maintaining better relations with the star player.

• Billy Corben criticizes the Heat's transparency and foresight, arguing that the organization failed to anticipate Butler's strategic maneuvers to maximize his contractual benefits, leading to a public and in-season dispute.

• Chris Cote underscores the unique and unprecedented nature of the current Heat-Buick situation, implying that it marks a significant departure from the team's historical handling of star players.

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Conclusion

The episode paints a complex picture of the Miami Heat's internal struggles, highlighting how financial decisions and contract negotiations can strain relationships between players and the front office. The discussion raises critical questions about team management, player empowerment, and the evolving landscape of professional sports. As the Heat navigate this turbulent period, the insights shared by the panelists serve as a cautionary tale for other franchises battling similar dynamics.

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Note: The episode contains moments of humor and informal banter among the hosts, which are secondary to the main discussions about team management and player relations.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to giraffkings Network.

[Stugotz]

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[Dan LeBatard]

This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like, you know, to check the date of the big game first before you accidentally buy tickets on your 20th wedding anniversary and have to spend the next 20 years of your marriage making up for it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check all state first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate Savings. Vary terms apply. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[Chris Cote]

Why are you listening to this show.

[David Sampson]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry. I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Chris Cote]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[David Sampson]

I've done it.

[Chris Cote]

And now here's the marching man to.

[David Sampson]

Nowhere, Fat Face and the Habitual liar.

[Dan LeBatard]

This episode of the Dan LeBatard show with Stugots is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Chris Cote]

Would you guys be kind enough please to put up that video of David Sampson wrestling a sumo wrestler? I want to put that up for people. I'd like for that to run in the picture. In picture during the questions that I have to ask David Sampson. That, of course, is the video of the Houston Rockets fighting Tyler Herro. And David Sampson broke his toe during that at some point as well, which seems a great way to, you know, have a walking tour of Japan with a broken toe. Sampson, thank you for being on with us. The reason we're having you on is because I want to talk to you about this Mike Evans thing. You guys thought that was cool, right? That was one of the. To see someone, to see Mike Evans happier than you've ever seen him in a Hall of Fame career. Because these guys are playing for money. And to see it because it's a $3 million catch and see everyone be happy for him was a really cool moment.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, the record too itself seemed like one of those unattainable records in NFL history. Whenever you look at the NFL receiving records, Jerry Rice owns damn near everything and it seems like it's impossible to catch. And he did that. And it was just like a confluence of emotions. You won the game, you put it away, you clinched the playoff spot, and as a walk off, you get your franchise's greatest receiver. That crowning moment it was really hyped to see and somehow still the second best way an athlete has ever left the field to play for that franchise.

[Stugotz]

I have a, I have a different way of asking this question to David and I feel like I, I'm going to connect with him here. David, why did you hate that moment so much as a former executive? And what is your best story of making sure your players did not reach their incentives?

[Mike Ryan]

And why do you look like.

[Billy Corben]

Yeah, you just release them. No, George Michael, not Bono. You, you release them. You don't. You move him to the bullpen. If he's got an incentive based on games started or games finished, you don't let him finish games. There's no reason to have thrown $3 million away. I'd rather save it and use it to increase fan amenities or use it to do something else with, with the player. The next season was a waste. What's $3 million, Dan?

[David Sampson]

Can you imagine if before a must win game to get them to the playoffs, the Buccaneers last week, last cut, Mike Evans.

[Chris Cote]

That's right. That's Samson. Come on.

[Mike Ryan]

You don't think they're going and merch opportunities? Come on, man.

[Billy Corben]

Does our merch store make 3 million bucks? Come on.

[Mike Ryan]

You try to resell tickets, physical tickets, to a Roy Holiday perfect game after the fact. I think the Bucks in the biggest sport in the country can find a way to pull $3 million of a return on that investment.

[Billy Corben]

I'm not begrudging paying Mike Evans. I think that he breaking the record at tying the Jerry Rice record. Outstanding. But let me tell you this scenario that would make me insane, which is when you can kneel and win a game, you don't run a play. Could it be Joe Pisarczyk? Probably not. Could there be a some sort of something that could have happened? The odds are infinitesimal. But why even take the chance? There was no Upside at all. If you want to give Mike Evans 3 million bucks as a thank you, cut him a check. But you don't do it right at the end when you're about to make the playoffs.

[Stugotz]

So if you run the Buffalo Bills and you see Sean McDermott punting the ball from his, from the 36 yard line so that his punter gets a $100,000 bonus, it's great for Sean McDermott's relationship with all of his players. I imagine as an executive you would not like that. And would you have a talking to with Sean McDermott after the fact?

[Billy Corben]

Well, those conversations all happen before the game. So you read about all the players and the incentives. You saw what Jerry Jones did. He didn't play rush. We're not going to take the chance to give him 250. We meet with the coach or the manager and go through every game. We go through what incentives players are on the track to, to achieving. And going into week 18, you know in advance, Sean McDermott did not give him because he had to get it down within the 20 and it was just a give me punt to get him that in order to get the bonus, at the end of the day, he's gotten permission from that because if not, that is truly a fireable offense.

[David Sampson]

In fairness to David, can you imagine, Dan, if it was a pick 6.

[Chris Cote]

Gets tipped at the line? Many years ago, I remember Edin J. I did a magazine story with him and he said out of victory formation that he and Peyton agreed and it made Jim Moore insane. Victory formation hand Edron James the ball. He ran for a touchdown and he, and he said, if you don't want me playing for money, don't put those incentives in my contract. He simply defied his coach. David, you are running the Tampa Bay Bucks last week, you're not serious about waving Mike Evans, but as that last play approaches, you are making sure that your coach knows that he is not to get that player the $3 million. Like you're interfering like that a hundred percent.

[Billy Corben]

That's all discussed. That's why I don't want to make a bigger issue of this than it is. They knew eyes were wide open that they were running that play. If it comes out in any way that that play was run without the acquiescence of the front office and ownership, that is game over. So I'm going to assume the best is that they wanted to reward Mike Evans with that. But that sort of play at the end, again you joke about it, but what if it had been they weren't playing for nothing. They were playing to make the playoffs, which is all that matters. And is it likely? No. Is it possible? Yes. It drove me insane.

[Dan LeBatard]

What does game over mean?

[Billy Corben]

There. It's game over. I would move on. I'd move on from all.

[Chris Cote]

You'd wave everybody.

[Billy Corben]

Get rid of every one of them.

[Chris Cote]

If you're telling Kyle trash starting on Samson. Samson.

[Billy Corben]

Guys, I promise you, you have this wrong. The Buccaneers had it planned to allow for him to get the 3 million. And if that was planned, what's wrong with that?

[Chris Cote]

It was a. It's a beautiful sports moment. Like everyone. When is the. When is everyone happy? For an athlete making a lot of money, when does that happen?

[Billy Corben]

Every single year, Dan. There's all sorts of times when Josh Allen goes in the game to keep a consecutive game streak going and he does a handoff. That's part of a plan. You plan it all. I'm not begrudging. I'm not the damn Grinch, Dan. I'm just telling you how it works. All of it gets discussed in advance.

[Chris Cote]

What's going on with the glasses? You bought them. How much did they cost? You said you were going to get them at auction. What's the story?

[Billy Corben]

These are worn by George Michael at a concert. So? These are George Michael's concert worn glasses. And I just got them. They happen to fit me perfectly. And I'm just deciding I'm not going to put them on a shelf. I'm going to wear them.

[Chris Cote]

You are?

[Billy Corben]

I am. You don't think I look good in these?

[Chris Cote]

No, I don't think people would say that. Those look like. Well, it might be the ensemble. You might need to put something on different than a. Than a sports coat.

[David Sampson]

But if you're looking to maintain the value, I'm not certain wearing them is the best idea. Maybe you don't care about the value. They're yours.

[Billy Corben]

I'm not selling this. I got an offer, by the way. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Memorabilia is not sold. Now what about these? Do you want me to go with the Elton John glasses instead? Elton John glasses? Game worn.

[Chris Cote]

That looks better. That looks better.

[Stugotz]

They prescription?

[Billy Corben]

No.

[Chris Cote]

Guy.

[Billy Corben]

Love your head, Zach. Because I checked before bidding. Because you can't wear them if they're prescription.

[Stugotz]

What do you mean you can't wear them if they're prescription? Change lenses.

[Billy Corben]

What do you mean?

[Stugotz]

Well, why would you. Why would you. They're not game worn by him then. I mean, they are, but it's like, you know, they change the lens. I wouldn't want That I want the lens in there. What do you want to wear Elton John's glasses for with no prescription?

[Billy Corben]

Because I. These are sunglasses. What are you even talking about? I got the memorabilia so I can engage with it and wear it and enjoy it. Meanwhile, my toes throbbing, I've got Bali Belly. Are we covering more stuff here?

[Stugotz]

Which player. Which player did you screw over? You didn't tell us that.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, you didn't tell us which player you screwed over. On an incentive.

[Billy Corben]

I'm happy to get back to you on Wednesday. I'll get the full list of every player who we didn't let reach incentives. My guess is it's about a dozen players.

[Chris Cote]

Oh, wow.

[David Sampson]

A top 12.

[Chris Cote]

Okay, so you've.

[Stugotz]

Well, then no. But also. Also I want a list of all the fan amenities you approved with that. With you improved with that money.

[Billy Corben]

No, we used it to. To get payroll. Your misunderstanding, which is fun for the show if you want to do it as a bit. But we're not the only front office who pays attention to this stuff. Players in baseball get released every year. Their jobs get changed. They move from starter to reliever. All of this happens because you're keeping an eye on what the incentive levels are. And the NFL is just a joke. Week 18, there's a list of 10 players doing a bunch of random crap in order to get extra money. Give it to them in base salary. Don't do it in these incentives that all of a sudden take away from the game. Forget it. So you're saying that.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're saying that the Bucs front office.

[Billy Corben]

When that play happened and the crowd.

[Dan LeBatard]

Is going crazy and the sidelines going crazy, there's an executive up there physically groaning. Oh, no.

[Billy Corben]

Because. No, I'm not saying that. Because they approved it. If they hadn't approved it. He's doing more than groaning. He's calling the HR attorney. But I assume it was approved of.

[Stugotz]

All the Elton John glasses, you found the tamest ones. I feel like they look the most like normal glasses.

[Billy Corben]

Yeah, I was looking for that because I didn't think that I could wear around sort of. I can't pull the star ones and all the crazy Elton John glasses. So I wanted ones that looked actually decent. But the George Michael ones are my true love. There's no question. There's also a third thing which I'm not going to show you right now because I'm hesitant to unpack it, but a third thing that I got and it was waiting for me when I got back from. From the trip. I can't wait to show you. Maybe I'll unveil it on Wednesday. But that's going to require gloves. I have to hold. Where?

[Chris Cote]

All right, we're doing both of those things on Wednesday. Get your top 12 players you've screwed out of incentive money.

[David Sampson]

Exciting.

[Chris Cote]

And get that for Wednesday as well. Your broken toe situation. What happened?

[Billy Corben]

So I just got stupid. I volunteered. I forgot that I was 56. I went to a sumo wrestling and. And I was asked would I want to volunteer to sumo wrestle a sumo wrestler? And I said, of course. And so I went after him. I couldn't move him. As you see, he's about 400 pounds, about 6, 5. And then he twirled me around like a rag doll. And then when he twisted me here, my right big toe got stuck under and I ended up having to go to the hospital in Tokyo in order to have it taken care of. Sort of like a Lost in Translation moment. But my toe, it's a absolute disaster. And it's staggering how much you need your big toe to walk.

[David Sampson]

Just sue him or what?

[Chris Cote]

Put it on the poll, please. At Lebiton Show. Is it staggering how much you need your big toe to walk? And Chris, you've never done better on interrogation questions that. What does game over mean there. Because him. Him. Him doubling down on. I'd fire everybody before a playoff game and waive all the players is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard.

[David Sampson]

A home playoff game. I mean, he gets the gates.

[Chris Cote]

A very important distinction. Thank you. Thank you, St. Guy. It's a whole.

[Billy Corben]

Give the full distinction. Dan, you're not being fair. I said if they didn't know in advance and approve it in advance. Put that.

[Chris Cote]

But yes, I put that. Caveat. Except you wouldn't approve it in advance.

[Billy Corben]

No, I would not.

[Chris Cote]

Like. That's the. That's the part that's asinine. Like, that's the part that will make the players not want to play for your organization.

[Billy Corben]

Oh, because Mike Evans is playing for the Buccaneers organization. He's happier getting the extra 3 million if they want a damn Super Bowl. The players are all happy. Do you know the players keep track also of their own incentives and of their teammates incentives. And they all work together in order to get that for themselves, which causes the front office to work against them to stop them from happening.

[Stugotz]

I don't think that you're going to get people on your side with this, David.

[Billy Corben]

I'm not asking for anyone to be on my side. I'm asking you Just to understand how it actually works. Believe me, Billy, if you were paid an incentive to do a 240th show and you were getting an extra 500k, I promise you, you would not be on the schedule for a 240th show.

[Stugotz]

I believe you.

[Chris Cote]

That's not true.

[Billy Corben]

We all.

[Chris Cote]

That is not true. That is brutal. Sampson, get out of here. Nothing personal with David Sampson is the podcast. It's very popular and it's every day, 8am Eastern. I want to get to Jeremy Tache, who I imagine is infuriated by everything going on around the heat and the conversation around the heat. But first, let's for everybody, the Paul Pierce sound, because there are a lot of people right now taking victory laps because this is the disaster scenario for the Miami Heat. You're going to get Jimmy Butler cheapened with every day when you could have gotten some of this solved earlier than now. You're going to lose him for something that probably doesn't have very much value. And you needed to get something for him. And everyone saw this coming. And so we'll get to Jeremy in a second. But let's first play the Paul Pierce Sound on him going after Pat Riley because Stugach, I would say for the first time in a long time, it is open season on Pat Riley. Jimmy Butler's not the loser here. People will get mad about his behavior or they'll get mad at the league because how can you not have joy in your game when they're paying you $50 million? But he ran the playbook. Like, this is how you get out of town. This is. This is how the Heat didn't get Dame Lillard because Dame Lillard wouldn't do all of this. Like you got to be illness, not trying. I'm going to go publicly and say things. You got to a mess.

[David Sampson]

Jimmy really wants it. He does. I mean, Dame didn't want it enough. And Jimmy really wants this. He wants out of Miami, and he's taking all the necessary steps to get himself out.

[Jeremy Tache]

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[Chris Cote]

Teammates can't shoot from three.

[Dan LeBatard]

Now they're gonna see a different Jimmy.

[Chris Cote]

Now he's just.

[Dan LeBatard]

Just playing nickel back in the locker.

[Chris Cote]

Room and stugats as they chase the nets for the six seed.

[Dan LeBatard]

These five words in his head scream my way.

[Chris Cote]

Winning games.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, this is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Chris Cote]

Let's play that Paul Pierce sound, please.

[Paul Pierce]

When you look at what Heat culture started when Shaq and Lonzo and Haslam and Wade and all got there. Look what he's done to his star player since he culture started. He ran Shaq out of town. You ran LeBron out of town. You ran D. Wade out of town. Of all people, one who drafted who were you won your first championship with, then you kind of tried to make up for it. Now you running Jimmy Butler out of town. This, to me, tells me that heat culture lives and dies with Pat Riley. And if he doesn't change the way he is being, you know, kind of like, stubborn and don't want to pay guys and it's his way or the highway, then I don't see Heat culture being the same any longer.

[Chris Cote]

Jeremy, I want to hear from you and Mike Ryan on this. I've talked enough, and I've already broken my New Year's resolution for the record 40th straight year. I cannot get my tone right when discussing things. So it's 40 years now. A New Year's resolution.

[Billy Corben]

Yeah.

[Chris Cote]

Broken and a couple of days in. But I want you, Jeremy. You represent. Jeremy and Mike represent different parts of this fan base. Mike's been fed up for years and Jeremy's been carrying water for years. Jeremy, the floor is yours.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, I mean, happy January 6th, Dan. It's a real shitty situation. Which, speaking of, I heard it. It smells a lot like poop over there. So that's. That's not fun. But look, this is listening to Paul Pierce say things about heat culture and running players out of town when the Celtics are what they are now simply because of the trade package that they received for Paul Pier at the end of his career is one thing. But this situation did escalate from the place. When you say everyone saw this coming. No one saw this specific thing in the middle of the season coming, including Jimmy Butler, who showed up day one to Heat camp and said, an extension, that's just money. I've made enough money in my career, he said of everything Pat Riley talked about him over the summer. I'm here to play games. Pat was right. He came in with that sort of attitude. It's the reason everyone anticipated this would all at least play out over the course of a season. And if you wanted to argue that, like Mike did, that this team, as constructed, wouldn't be competitive enough to win a championship, you can feel perfectly validated today, and you can feel validated about where this all goes. But this has little to nothing to do with acquisitions made or not made over the span of the last few years. It has everything to do with a contract extension. It all comes down to the money. If the contract extension would have been offered this past summer, Jimmy Butler would still be perfectly happy playing for the Miami Heat and nothing would be any different. Outside of our arguments about whether or not the roster was no, something else would be different.

[Chris Cote]

They could trade him now for value. If they'd done that, they would not. But now they're.

[Dan LeBatard]

If he had a contract extension, I would argue that his value would be worse. You, Jimmy decided with money already signed, it would be worse off for the Heat. At least right now, you think that.

[Chris Cote]

If he got an extension of three years, you believe he'd have less value than he does right now.

[Dan LeBatard]

If Jimmy Butler got an extension either, he never would have said anything and he would have finished out his career in Miami like he said he was going to do. Or there would be teams all around the league looking at a Jimmy Butler at his age and saying, I'm not sure I want to trade for a max player. I mean, Mike, I would have to think on that front, you would agree?

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, I think. I think he certainly has a lot more value because part of this value is teams would be looking at him as a rental. This is an expiring deal, comes off our books, maybe someone gives him his extension. I don't have a doubt that he's going to get a big money deal that'll satisfy him. It may not be to the team that he gets traded to, but in terms of what you can get back, you get more back because he's an expiring deal at his right.

[Chris Cote]

Oh, see, I would have argued. I understand what you're saying about the value of an expiring contract, but I would value if I were Pat Riley the flexibility of if I've got Jimmy long term and I can then trade him after six months because I've changed my mind on what it is that like. I'm not agreeing to no trade extension with Jimmy. Jimmy, you want your money, that's fine. But at any point I can trade you. I would think that that would still have value for a Golden State trying to win in Steph Curry's window, especially.

[Mike Ryan]

For a Gold say the value for me is that I don't have a commitment beyond this year and I can make another run with it. I completely agree with Jeremy, by the way. It doesn't matter. Like, yeah, they could have gotten Damian Lillard. Hell, they could have won Larry one year. Jimmy was going to be mad no matter what if he didn't get his extension and the Heat was always going to resent him for going along with a plan that run counter. That runs counterculture. Okay, we'll save your body, we'll follow this along. We'll pay you to not play. But come the playoffs, you gotta be that Jimmy Butler guy again. And he got injured in the play in tournament and it blew up in their face and they were at their wit's ends with it maybe a misstep by Pat Riley before the season. I think we've all been kind of playing chess and yes, Jeremy, I get what you're saying. You said he showed up, they won. He actually didn't. He showed up late to media day. Like they have their public comments that seemed relatively aligned even after Jimmy Butler was saying, damn purple and gold, that looks good. This was all a cat and mouse game. And I think Dane was absolutely right to say Pat Riley checkmated himself. I think number one, it was pretty tone deaf by putting that statement out because half the fan base by the time that thing came out was pretty divided on whether or not you keep things going with this and also you back Jimmy Butler into a corner. And Jimmy Butler's the greatest ever at blowing things up and getting his way and being able to force his way out of a franchise. And you, you made that be the only move which in turn probably affects the return that you're going to have on him.

[Chris Cote]

I just ask everyone to examine what the last 10 years dugouts have been since Pat Riley sort of got stood up by LeBron James in that Las Vegas hotel room. He's outside with the championship trophies. He's got to make a recruiting pitch. LeBron is in the room watching the World cup feed on a table with his friends because they were about to take over the next 10 years of the league, and they knew it. And from there, what ends up happening right now has no precedent in Pat Riley's history or in the Miami Heat's history. This sequence of things public mess says out loud on comment, because the Heat don't comment on this stuff, he's not being traded a week later has to totally change it, because the dynamics in this sport have changed. This mess has never existed under Pat Riley.

[Mike Ryan]

And you can under. You could probably understand why opposing fans say, good, yeah, they deserve this, because their whole talent acquisition strategy seems to be, have the other superstars somewhere else make this kind of mess, and we could be there to pick up the pieces. And you were playing with fire when you brought Jimmy Butler in, knowing his history, and it's finally happened to them.

[Dan LeBatard]

They built something around Jimmy in a way that no other franchise has for him throughout his entire career. And when I say built it around him, I mean he got to be Jimmy in every manner in which you could be Jimmy Butler. Like, he. He was given sort of privileges in a way that a lot of other star players have not in Miami over the course of. I mean, we're talking about the Big Three. We're talking about Shaq and Wade when they were together. We're talking before that. They built this whole thing around him and led him to a ton of success. I mean, in. In those first couple of years, they did try to cash in at deadlines and make moves to acquire guys. For that matter, they got to the finals because of a move that they made in the first year that, that Jimmy Butler was here to acquire Andre Gadala and Jake Crowder and make a run. They could have won the finals if they had not had Bama to bio and Goran Dragic get hurt. So they built it around him. It's just here at the end, no matter the moves that were going to be made, it comes down to a contract dispute. And I think the, The. The obvious change is in that Pat Riley statement when he says, we're not trading Jimmy Butler. It's because the clear and obvious understanding from every party involved going into the year was, look, clearly this is just going to have to play out over the course of the year and we'll deal with it in the off Season. I don't think the Heat ever anticipated after everything that their relationship has been contentious or not at any given moment. They, they kind of liked butting heads throughout a lot of this. They liked the on court arguments where UD's breaking up Spo and Butler. It's how they all click and how they all tick. It's fine. But now at the end, this is more of an in season public mess than they ever anticipated the Jimmy Butler would make. And maybe, maybe they're wrong to not anticipate it because of the way some of these other things have ended.

[Chris Cote]

Not maybe, but I think they thought.

[Dan LeBatard]

They could get through.

[Chris Cote]

Jeremy, Jeremy, not maybe we'll let you go on that note, but I don't think the Heat ever anticipated. The job is to anticipate they've been left behind because the other people in their conference have anticipated. Like it's the job. Like you can't be leading and not ever anticipate and not have it be a blemish on your resume.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, the anticipation. They controlled the situation going into the season by not offering an extension and giving themselves the flexibility that if things didn't go well this year, Jimmy Butler would either opt in and they could trade it or he would opt out and they would get all of that money off of the books. After all of the respect that did exist between these two parties over the last five years, after everything that they did to sort of cater to what it was that Jimmy Butler wanted, the only thing that they really missed out on was that Damian Lillard trade. All of the other ones were just conjecture. This is not an ending that any star in the league has made outside of James Harden. No one does this mid season in the way that Jimmy Butler has. And, and sure you can say that that they were wrong to not anticipate that, but they believed, and or at least I believe that that they felt in the type of control with his contract situation that they would be able to move it one way or another even if it was at this deadline. But a major stink like this a month before it, I don't know that anyone should anticipate that considering what the relationship was for the last five years.

[Chris Cote]

All right, Happy New Anus. Thank you for being on the show. Appreciate your time.

[Dan LeBatard]

Happy New Anus to you.

[Chris Cote]

I have a number of things that I want to get to here. Stugats. Because it isn't just that this has no precedent in my lifetime with the Miami Heat, a notoriously private organization that doesn't let these things spill out in Public. Yes, Billy.

[Stugotz]

Jimmy should be happy because they went out and got him. Jay Crowder, like, what are we doing?

[David Sampson]

Jimmy should be happy, though, that they turned Jimmy, a guy who was perceived as, hey, if he's your third or fourth best player, you have a good team. If he's your best player, you don't have a very good team. I mean, the Heat did turn him into a superstar.

[Stugotz]

Jimmy had a say in that.

[David Sampson]

Oh, Jimmy did have a say in the playoffs. I know, but the. He can always chalk that thing up to like he culture. He played his best basketball when he was here because of us.

[Chris Cote]

Who do you.

[Stugotz]

Who do we think did more for the other one? Jimmy for the Heat or the Heat for Jimmy?

[Mike Ryan]

That was a great.

[Stugotz]

I think an argument can be made that Jimmy did more for the Heat than any other player in taking them to two finals basically by himself.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, but we were having the questions, is Jimmy Butler a superstar before the Heat acquired him? And then he left little doubt through his own performance, I might add, in the playoffs. Also, just as like a on air community note, it's mighty convenient for Jeremy to sweep aside some of the other failures in their talent acquisition pursuits as conjecture. No, they failed when it came to Kevin Durant. They failed twice. They failed their entire time down here. And I think that the biggest misstep here in this franchise is they kept playing this game of chicken and now Pat Riley has so little leverage because this is an absolute tire fire. And it's a tire fire in part because Pat Riley sauntered in and put out a statement thinking that it was 1997. Again, totally not reading the room, totally not understanding that Shams had a better beat on what was going on than he did. I think yes, you can totally criticize their lack of foresight here. When Shams is out there, who isn't wrong reporting what's going on in your house and you're defiant and you're pounding the table and you put out a statement and then you put the guy who you don't put into a corner and you have zero leverage now. Zero. Zilch. You mishandled this situation, this holiday.

[Chris Cote]

AT T Mobile, I'm joined by a special co anchor.

[Stugotz]

What up everybody? It's your boy, Big Snoop.

[Chris Cote]

D O, double G. Snoop, let's talk about T Mobile.

[Stugotz]

Okay, cool.

[Chris Cote]

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[Stugotz]

Let's get cracking like a breakfast egg.

[Chris Cote]

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[Stugotz]

Take some of those savers and buy some Snoop merchandise.

[Chris Cote]

Always a great stocking stuffer Snoop and.

[Stugotz]

We up out of here.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hold your horses Snoop D O Double.

[Chris Cote]

G let's remind people one more time.

[Stugotz]

Head to t mobile.com and get four.

[Billy Corben]

Iphone 16s with Apple Intelligence on us.

[Stugotz]

Plus four lines for 25 bucks.

[Chris Cote]

Now drop that jig with 24 month bill credits for eligible trade ins and four new lines with auto. Pay well qualified customers plus taxes and fees and 35 dollars per line connection charge. Cancel entire account before receiving 24 bill credits and credit stop and balance on required finance agreements due $829.99 credits. Envy payoff device early. See how you can save on Wireless and streaming versus the other big guys@t mobile.comSwitch Apple Intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later wow.

[Mike Ryan]

What's up?

[Chris Cote]

I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes.

[Jeremy Tache]

You the person who agonized four weeks.

[Chris Cote]

Over whether to paint your walls eggshell.

[Jeremy Tache]

Or off white bought and financed a car in in minutes.

[Mike Ryan]

They made it easy, transparent terms, customizable, down and monthly.

[Chris Cote]

Didn't even have to do any paperwork.

[Jeremy Tache]

Wow.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet.

[Chris Cote]

I sent you for our dinner?

[Jeremy Tache]

Options Finance your car with Carvana and experience total control financing subject to credit.

[Mike Ryan]

Approval Don lebatard you're a big disappointment. Paul Pierce My I'm only upset right now that I don't get to do this in person.

[Paul Pierce]

Paul Pierce how disappointed is it to be a Miami fan right now stuff, brother.

[Mike Ryan]

Actually, you make a really great point.

[Stugotz]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.

[Chris Cote]

I will say again before we get to the palate cleansing of a Heat song, I will say again that it was and I know these things get noisy and messy. It was a very good marriage for both sides. Jimmy Butler didn't get as far in Philadelphia, Minnesota or Chicago as he did here. When he got here. We all doubted whether that was the move we thought it was. And good God, it was a fun era of basketball for the Miami Heat. Everybody won except in the way of the standard of today, which is you gotta win the whole thing. Which makes the Dolphins a failure every year but three. And makes the makes the Heat a failure every year but three. The Panthers are a failure every year but one. The Marlins are a failure every year.

[Stugotz]

But hold on a Second, they're saving their money. Spend wisely.

[Mike Ryan]

This is like when Tom Brady and Gisele put out a joint statement. This is not a failed marriage. It's a very successful marriage. We had a lot that we're proud of and we achieved. And I would look back on the Jimmy Butler say and say wild success outperformed. Let's put that to the side, though. Pat Riley is president of this franchise, has a duty to maximize the hole for Jimmy Butler. And he misstepped several times here and now he's got zero lines leverage.

[Chris Cote]

That is part of the problem. But only part of the problem, Stugatz, because the gulf between where Boston is and where Miami is now in the conference when this, you know, I've said four years ago, they met at the rim. Bam. Adebayo is a shell of himself. They've got Tyler Herro playing the All Star basketball. And if he's your best player, you'll be 500. Congratulations, you're the Hawks.

[Stugotz]

He must bulk up a little bit. He can't be thrown around like that.

[David Sampson]

It's not just the Celtics, by the way. I mean, it's the Cavaliers. The Cavaliers at 31 4.

[Chris Cote]

That's right.

[Mike Ryan]

I know they got injured, but it was also the magic within your own division, a team that is a relative punchline to you that you never even entered a season thinking about.

[Chris Cote]

And then as soon as this becomes a mess with Jimmy Butler, you lose by 36 at home to the Utah Jazz, who have seven victories this season. You have your worst loss of the season right after that, and now you've got a West coast trip. And when we talk about the strategy stugats of how it is that you get maneuvered on things, when I'm hearing Jeremy, the Heat could have never expected, and I hear Mike Ryan saying, we saw all of this happening. It was all headed here with this player. We know who this player is. You should know better than anybody who and what this player is. Mike Ryan's mad at the Miami Heat media. We've got Barry Jackson fighting people in a way I've never seen Barry Jackson from the Miami Herald fight people.

[David Sampson]

Oh, I love this Barry. Barry Jackson. By the way, the Jazz are up to nine wins now.

[Chris Cote]

Just they got big, big hot streak. Put up the Barry Jackson tweet real quick here. But Mike's mad at the Miami Heat media because the Miami Heat media has been real light all around this.

[David Sampson]

Isn't it possible, though, that the Heat, when they acquired Jimmy Butler, thought to themselves, we're never going to have to build around Jimmy Butler like they didn't expect you because Jimmy Butler was not the guy that he's been since he's been here.

[Chris Cote]

They needed to get a player in his five years better than Jimmy Butler. That's what they, they had to do and they failed to do that. I'm not even sure Pat Riley would dis with that.

[David Sampson]

Jay Crowder.

[Mike Ryan]

The Heat media thing is, it is a little funny in that look, I am certainly was a willing participant in carrying water for this franchise. But then the Damian Lillard thing happened and I realized like, oh, we're just a pawn and we are willing and able mouthpieces for this franchise and I can't disassociate my hand in that wrongdoing. So. Well, that was a eye opening experience.

[Chris Cote]

Me neither, by the way.

[Mike Ryan]

It was an eye opening experience for me. And we did this entire just ridiculous season where we know where this is all headed. We're gonna spend two years just treading water. Let's at least speak the truth. Let's at least acknowledge our missteps. And there are just certain aspects of Heat media that refuse that they're just gonna carry water all the way. And what I hated the most about this whole Jimmy Butler thing is they turned on dime the second Jimmy did that thing, which in my mind changed nothing. It was just speaking it out there. All it changed was Miami's leverage and the return that they were going to get on this. Zero foresight or they just turned a blind eye to it. And for them to so willingly and transparently just turn on Jimmy Butler after people were saying these things for months and months and months and they were the first people in your mentions to go at you. It's just a bad little look and like no public capitulation for them, no accountability. They just keep it moving. And it was one of the things that turned me off to this whole franchise and its fandom. Like they need to rebuild their whole mantra. They need to rebuild this whole franchise. And they're off to a terrible start because trading Jimmy Butler could actually help rebuild your franchise, could actually bring back assets. But you wanted to pound your chest and be the godfather one more time, even though you went to high school the same time Joe Biden did and you just totally misplaced played it because you thought you knew better than the best information guy in the sport.

[Dan LeBatard]

It was a good high school.

[Chris Cote]

Pat Riley joining us on South Beach Sessions this week.

[David Sampson]

Oh, nice. Are you saying the game has passed Riley by? Is that.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm saying we're clear. I'm saying if you, if you want to make that argument, be careful. If you want to make, be careful. Pat Riley can stay here as long as he likes. He deserves to be. And he can like to his last breath. He deserves what he did to this franchise. Like he deserves to go out on his terms. But he totally botched this Jimmy Butler thing and he has for years.

[Dan LeBatard]

Why did I catch a stray there?

[Chris Cote]

Let's go out to the Barry Jackson room where Izzy Gutierrez joins us as a lifetime observer of Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald. Again, Barry Jackson is in. It's the Barry Jackson room. Billy, why are you making faces at the Barry Jackson room?

[Stugotz]

I didn't know we had a Barry Jackson.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, we do have a Barry Jackson.

[David Sampson]

I mean, we're happy about it.

[Chris Cote]

Metal lark is expanding. Explain to people. Izzy, how long have you known Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald?

[I]

I've known Barry since I believe the year 2000.

[Chris Cote]

Okay, so what can you tell us about Barry Jackson? And when he writes, go back in your jock sniffing hole instead of questioning integrity of multi time winner of sportswriter of year award.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah.

[Chris Cote]

Have a nice day. What is happening there? Break it down. Izzy Gutierrez in the Barry Jackson room.

[I]

Well, first of all, I thought you were going to put me in a jock sniffing hole. Instead, I'm surrounded by Barry Jackson's. Not the best situation here. But look, I think you can tell where the heat are in their whole building rebuilding phase, whatever they are, just based on Barry Jackson's reactions. Okay? You've talked about Barry on this show before. He's been doing this forever. He's the intrepid reporter. This is the reason why he's shown up on the show. He's just a little bee. He'll just be anywhere that you need him to be. Okay? But this is not the LeBron era. This is not the Dwyane Wade and Shaq era. He doesn't have to treat this the way he treated those. This is the Jimmy Butler era. This is the third best era, third best iteration of this team that Pat Riley has put together. So now it's Jimmy's time. Okay, whatever. Do you know how many franchises would have loved this six year stretch? Would have been the best six year stretch of their entire franchise. For Pat Riley, it's light work. Oh, I've got to get rid of him now. Nobody thought I could even get him. And you want to talk about full, full circle moments? I know it's supposed to be a Barry Jackson thing.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, I'm not Sure. What's happened here? And that I was asking you about Barry Jackson and all you're doing is giving us heat tape.

[I]

Look, it's a new year. I've got to get these things out. Okay. The idea.

[Chris Cote]

Happy New Way.

[I]

I. I will take one, by the way. If you're offering, I mean, a new body part, why not?

[Chris Cote]

What?

[David Sampson]

A trade?

[Dan LeBatard]

Or I mean, ooh.

[I]

No, I need a brand new one. Brand new one not used, please. But this full circle moment for Jimmy Butler. Like, I don't understand how. How Jimmy checkmated.

[Chris Cote]

Full circle moment. We're just going to skip past your full circle moment.

[David Sampson]

No one wants my anus.

[I]

47 years old, Dan. I don't care what body part you offer me, I'll take a new one. If it starts with the, then that's where it starts. Okay, but I don't understand how Jimmy Butler checkmated Pat Riley when. This is very much a full circle moment here for Jimmy Butler. The warriors will not trade Andrew Wiggins for him. Karl Anthony Towns is dominated in New York and Jimmy can't find a team. And I don't even think this is about leverage because the warriors did not want to trade Kaminga and Wiggins for Jimmy before all of this mess. And now it just shows you that Jimmy overachieved here, Pat Riley and the Heat overachieved here. And now it's breakup time. Oh, well.

[David Sampson]

But what about Barry?

[Chris Cote]

I mean, I don't understand what just happened. Like, this is not the way that this is supposed to be done around here. And I'm already here.

[Dan LeBatard]

Final penalty, two minutes, asshole.

[Chris Cote]

Get Izzy out.

[I]

New one. A new please.

[Chris Cote]

Happy new. Get out of here. Izzy, I asked you for Barry Jackson information because it's really odd, Billy, you know this. It's unusual for Barry Jackson to hit somebody with all of this and then.

[Stugotz]

Not as of late. Yeah, Barry changed like two years ago.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, something happened that closed out line of have a nice day though. That is awesome.

[Stugotz]

Well, he. He told us what happened. He said, you know, I've been dealing with some, you know, stuff with my family and I'm just not going to take it anymore. Like two years ago he decided he wasn't going to take it anymore and he hasn't taken it ever since.

[Chris Cote]

Hey, moron, I presented both sides. That's what journalists do. I didn't guess who was telling truth and who was lying. Go back in your jock sniffing hole instead of questioning integrity of multi time winner of sportswriter of year award. Have a nice day. So good put it on the poll at Levittart show. Do you enjoy the sarcastic have a nice day as an insult?

[David Sampson]

He wants that person to have the worst possible death.

[Chris Cote]

That is correct. Jessica, I need to find out about why it is you were running into Shane Gillis at the golic house at 1:30 in the morning. We'll do it next.

[Jeremy Tache]

The Dan Libertard show with Stu Gotz is sponsored by Better Help. Every January feels like a fresh start. 365 blank pages just waiting for your story to be written in 2025. Maybe you're ready for a plot twist, ready to revise the parts of your story holding you back. Life isn't about New Year's resolutions that disappear by February. It's about picking up the pen and becoming the author of your life. Life therapy can help you do just that. Therapy isn't just for the big traumas. It's for anyone who wants to grow, heal and thrive with better help. Therapy is convenient and affordable. It's fully online. You can access it anywhere, anytime, BetterHelp connects over 5 million people with a network of 30,000 licensed therapists, specialized, experienced and ready to help. If it's not a right fit, you can switch therapists at any time at no extra cost. Cost write your story with Better Help. Visit betterhelp.com DLB today to get 10 off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DLB.