The Big Suey: Kawhi (Don't) Wanna Earn (feat. Pablo Torre)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz — The Big Suey: "Kawhi (Don't) Wanna Earn" (feat. Pablo Torre)
September 3, 2025 | Main Segment Airs 02:00–44:48

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into Pablo Torre's explosive, investigative report on NBA star Kawhi Leonard and the LA Clippers, revealing an alleged multi-million dollar circumvention of NBA salary cap rules. Hosted live from the Elser Hotel in Miami, the crew (Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Chris Cody, and more) welcomes Pablo Torre to unpack his seven-month investigation. Beyond the headline, the show probes the implications for the NBA, league integrity, team rivalries, and the ever-blurred lines between sports, business, and celebrity.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pablo Torre's Bombshell Report: The Basics

• The Investigation: Torre kicks off by unveiling a meticulously documented story regarding Kawhi Leonard’s $28 million endorsement contract tied to a "green bank"/climate investment firm (Aspiration), secretly funded to the tune of $50 million by Clippers owner Steve Ballmer (06:47, 09:53).
  • Quote: "We have an episode that explains in 4K detail how Steve Ballmer, the owner of the Clippers, has paid Kawhi Leonard off the books... involving two Harvard graduates, two Democratic politicians, and a $2.3 billion value-weighted scheme around climate change and saving the planet." — Pablo Torre (04:38)
• No-Show Endorsement: Despite the massive payout, there is zero public evidence Leonard performed any endorsement work—no ads, posts, appearances, or tree planting as promised.
  • Quote: "He was signed to a $28 million endorsement contract and did nothing. Nobody has proof of anything that he did. Zero things... The absence of evidence is kind of the evidence." — Pablo Torre (06:59)
  • Humorously, the only 'proof' seems to be contractual paperwork with extravagant clauses favoring Leonard's total inactivity.

2. The Anatomy of the Alleged Scheme

• Celebrity Endorsement Front: The company's A-list roster (Robert Downey Jr., Leonardo DiCaprio, Drake, Cindy Crawford, Orlando Bloom) served as a smokescreen—yet Kawhi was paid over four times the total value of all other celeb deals combined.
• Ballmer’s Involvement: Ballmer’s personal investment and connections were crucial to clandestinely rewarding Leonard outside publicly accounted Clippers salary.
  • "The signed and executed endorsement—Kawhi Leonard, his autograph right next to the guy who turns out to be, by the way, the youngest speechwriter in White House history for Bill Clinton... In that contract, he has outs... in which you clearly see Kawhi was also not obligated to do anything." — Pablo Torre (08:00)
• Trail of Discovery: The secret emerges because the company collapses, goes bankrupt, and lists "KL2Aspire LLC" (Kawhi Leonard’s LLC) as an unpaid creditor; public records connect the dots (09:53).

3. NBA Implications and Precedents

• Salary Cap ‘Cardinal Sin’: The NBA previously warned the Clippers and the league about "cap circumvention"—illegally channeling hidden compensation to players.
  • Precedent: The Joe Smith–Minnesota Timberwolves case in the 1990s (forfeited 5 first-round picks, owner suspension). (13:46)
• Potential Punishments: Range from fines and lost draft picks to voided player contracts. The show speculates Ballmer’s power and NBA stature could shield him—“the richest owner not just in the NBA, but all of sports... both powerful and a good spokesperson for the league.” — Pablo Torre (11:56)
• Industry Fallout: Hosts wonder whether other teams/owners have similarly exploited loopholes, and how this might shatter competitive balance.

4. Media Coverage & League Response

• Media Silence: As of airing, ESPN and other major NBA partners had yet to pick up Torre’s revelations, prompting discussion about the league’s institutional power over the news cycle.
  • Quote: “Do you actually think this gets traction beyond where it is right now?... I haven't seen ESPN touch this story.” — Stugotz (19:08)
  • "We await... what is an obvious decision to of course cover the biggest news in basketball today. This is catching [the NBA] with a level of surprise that I think says a lot about how secret this entire operation was.” — Pablo Torre (19:36)
• Celebrity Involvement: Most other celebrities likely duped, not complicit; Ballmer’s savvy called into question given the depth of his financial and personal ties (20:39–21:58).

5. Wider Impact — Cap Culture and Owner Gamesmanship

• Market Inequality: The show unpacks how the loophole (and Ballmer’s resources) widen the gap for small-market teams already struggling to compete, referencing the Oklahoma City Thunder's historic frustration.
  • “Now these new billionaires, the new owners, the richest guys in sports history like Steve Ballmer...” — Pablo Torre (22:27)
• Owner vs. Owner: The panel expects other owners, especially those feeling victimized by this “cheating,” to push hard for severe NBA sanctions.
  • "Once you're screwing with the integrity of the structure of the league... there is no way that the league handles this in a way that is soft. Something is going to come down on Ballmer..." — Dan Le Batard (36:55)
• Salary Cap Critique: Dan and Chris Cody frame the scandal less as a player failing and more as a testament to the irrationality of salary caps in an era of mega-billionaire ownership. (39:52–41:04)

6. The Scope of Fraud — Were Any Trees Planted?

• Underlying scam: Besides the NBA angle, the climate company involved (Aspiration) stands accused of wire fraud. Co-founder has pleaded guilty; evidence suggests almost no trees were planted, contradicting lofty environmental claims.
  • "In their experience at the company... precisely one visit to a tree planting site. So, in short, the answer seems to be no.” — Pablo Torre (26:22)

7. Show Reflections, Humor, and Meta-Media

• Meta-commentary: The Le Batard crew poke fun at slow-rolling the story’s details and the performative aspects of big journalism (e.g., Torre’s “7,000 document” stacks, dramatic contract readings, and audio effects for anonymous sources). (32:44–33:38)
• Legacy and Ethics: The show contextualizes the reporting within wider patterns of sports secrecy, pushing listeners to consider larger systemic issues rather than just scapegoating individual actors.
  • "I don't blame a player for wanting more and more money... I don't think that this is going to do anything to Kawhi Leonard's legacy that he wanted more money." — Chris Cody (43:07)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the genius/sloppiness of the scam:
  "Part of the gall of this scam is the stupidity of it. Wouldn't it have been extremely easy just to have Kawhi film a couple PSAs... instead of doing absolutely nothing?" — Zagaki (07:44)
  "The absence of evidence is kind of the evidence." — Pablo Torre (06:59)

• NBA Precedent & Punitive Measures:
  "At the most extreme end, the nullification of contracts for the players whose salaries were circumvented." — Pablo Torre (12:37)

• On Kawhi’s role:
  "Kawhi Leonard, to me, is not the villain of the story. Kawhi Leonard is maybe the most clear cut example of a straight up capitalist, right? Boardman gets paid, dude wants money. Dude doesn't want to work, he wants to get paid." — Pablo Torre (08:00)

• On the salary cap:
  "The salary cap is a stupidity because these owners cannot control themselves... when they want something, they know exactly how to buy it." — Chris Cody (39:52)

• On paper props:
  "The prop person did barely more than Kawhi did for trees. In fact, they did worse for trees because they wasted trees on all that paper." — Dan Le Batard (33:27)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:42 — Pablo Torre joins; set-up for story’s importance
• 04:38–06:47 — Pablo details his explosive Kawhi/Clippers investigation
• 06:47–08:00 — Was any actual endorsement performed?
• 09:53–11:56 — How the secret deal was found; bankruptcy filings and NBA cap issues
• 13:41–13:46 — Legacy of Joe Smith/T-Wolves precedent
• 19:08–19:36 — Will major NBA media partners cover the story?
• 22:27–24:13 — Implications for other owners and small-market teams
• 26:06–27:33 — Did Aspiration actually plant trees? The fraud appears deeper
• 36:55–38:11 — NBA owner fury; how much will the league punish the Clippers?

---

Conclusion & Episode Takeaways

The episode offers a masterclass in how corruption and ingenuity collide in big-time sports—and how tough it is to unravel secretive power games when billionaires, athletes, and institutional inertia intersect. Pablo Torre’s reporting spotlights both the specifics (a mind-boggling, player-enriching scheme) and a broader climate of owner-driven rule-bending in professional Leagues. The tone, true to Le Batard Show form, alternates between comic incredulity and sharp-eyed analysis—ending with a warning: this scandal’s resolution will likely hinge not on moral principle, but on the private grievances and calculations of NBA ownership itself.

For a deeper dive, Pablo Torre’s 80-minute doc and YouTube discussion at 3:30pm ET are recommended.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

All right, Smirnoff, Official vodka of the NFL. The world's number one vodka. Here's the deal. Game day is everything. The noise, the rituals, the passion, the dip, the wings, the dip. Again, Smirnoff belongs in that mix. Because if you're tailgating or hosting or just sitting there checking your fantasy lineup every 30 seconds, you need Smirnoff. Otherwise, it's not a real game day. They've been doing this since 1864, which is. I don't even want to do the math. A long time. They're award winning, they make cocktails super easy, and they're all about bringing fans together. So yeah, we do game days. That's their thing. And if you're over 21, you should, too. Grab a bottle of Smirnoff at your local retailer and head to smirnoff.com to find recipes of delicious cocktails perfect for game day. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff 21 vodka distilled from grain, 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Co. New York, NY. Please do not share with anyone under legal drinking age.

[Pablo Torre]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send.

[Chris Cody]

Event invites and pin messages so no.

[Pablo Torre]

One forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail] I'm NFL linebacker TJ Watt and this is my personal best. YPB by Abercrombie is the activewear I'm always wearing. That's why I reached out to co design their latest drop.

[Chris Cody]

I worked with designers to create high performance activewear that holds up to my toughest workouts.

[Pablo Torre]

Shop YPB by Abercrombie in store online and in the app because your personal best is greater than anything.

[Chris Cody]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebatard podcast?

[David Sampson]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Chris Cody]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables, grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Zagaki]

I've done it.

[Chris Cody]

And now here's the Marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Zagaki]

This episode of the Dan Levittard Show With Stu Gotts is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre joins us now. By the way, Greg Cody Dominique said on his show the other day that the Colts are a team that is not getting enough enough attention or respect and that they were his pick for which team would be surprisingly good.

[Zagaki]

I'll pass that along to Greg.

[Chris Cody]

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Greg.

[Zagaki]

Okay, nice chatting with you.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo. Are you joining us right now from the Harvard club?

[Pablo Torre]

Why am I. Why am I being doxed on your program in which I thought I was a friend of the show, a family member in fact. And now you're alleging.

[Chris Cody]

I'm sorry, I just found out.

[Pablo Torre]

Verifiable claim. You can't prove that.

[Chris Cody]

I'm sorry I reported something that makes you uncomfortable.

[Pablo Torre]

You think this is crimson? You think this red is crimson? No, it's something else.

[Chris Cody]

You're at the Harvard club, aren't you?

[Pablo Torre]

No. That's off Maroon. That's off Maroon.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre finds out has exploded as a podcast. Today is his first day and its first day with the athletic. And he started with a beast of a story that took seven months to report and that he was very nervous that somebody else was gonna break before he reported what in 3,487 documents. So starting first tell the people what it is that you reported today at 5:00am yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

So people may recall how there's this. What is happening is that. Is that.

[Chris Cody]

That's how we're introducing when you drop a Pablo. When you drop a Pablo. When a Pablo drops. That's our imaging. Chris Cody has had seven months to produce imaging for this story.

[David Sampson]

It's good, right?

[Chris Cody]

And that's what he has produced. This is how we like Lance, Steven.

[Stugatz]

And blowing in my ear.

[Chris Cody]

This is how a Pablo gets dropped. This is. This is how we celebrate the biggest story in sports today. So, so tell us what it is, please.

[Pablo Torre]

Whoever, whoever just yelped. It's good, right? I just.

[David Sampson]

Who said that?

[Pablo Torre]

The sweet nothings. The sweet nothings. It's a sweet something is what I brought you guys. Today, 2019, the NBA investigates. Okay, how did the Clippers get Kawhi Leonard? They found no proof, right? This was something that the NBA was infuriated by around the league. It was the Lakers, it was the Raptors. Everybody wondering, how did Steve Ballmer and the Clippers get Kawhi Leonard? We have an episode that explains in, I think like 4k detail how it happened in terms of how Steve Ballmer, the owner of the Clippers has paid Kawhi Leonard off of the books using. And this is where the story gets wild, because this is about the extension kawhi signs in 2021. But it involves, true to the alleged setting that I'm in, two Harvard graduates, two Democratic politicians starting what turns out to be a $2.3 billion value weighted scheme around climate change and saving the planet. That brings in as the following, a roster of endorsers. Robert Downey Jr. Drake, Leonardo DiCaprio, Cindy Crawford, Orlando Bloom. The list goes on. What has never been reported, though, until today is the most important, most highly paid endorsement deal they signed, which was more than four times the combined value of every other celebrity. And that endorsement deal was signed with one of probably, I would say the worst pitch men when it comes to, like, good athletes in America. And it's Kawhi Leonard. And this was a company that was funded to the tune of $50 million by Steve Ballmer, another Harvard graduate and the owner, of course, the richest owner in all of sports. And so we have documentation. We have seven sources. We have a source voice modulated on tape, kind of whispering some facts into your ear. If you listen on YouTube or as a podcast, it's a story that's an 80 minute documentary we made. And it's. Yeah, it's crazy. It's actually a crazy thing to sort of pour through.

[Chris Cody]

Is there any proof at all that Kawhi Leonard did any work at all to earn that $28 million? Anything other than basketball? Play basketball for the Clippers, which he's.

[Pablo Torre]

Only kind of done. I would argue the basketball part, that's my favorite part, is that typically in a story like this, you say, okay, there's no evidence. And that's a problem here. The absence of evidence is kind of the evidence. He was signed to a $28 million endorsement contract and did nothing. Nobody has proof of anything that he did. Zero things. No likes, no retweets, no posts, no tree plantings. This was a company that was supposed to plant trees to zero out your carbon footprint and help save the planet. Kauhi did nothing that anyone could find. There's no evidence on the Internet anywhere. And that, to me feels like all of the evidence you need in terms of this being a no show job if you're an endorser of something. I would argue, Pablo, part of the.

[Zagaki]

Gall of this scam is the stupidity of it. Wouldn't it have been extremely easy just to have Kawhi film a couple of PSAs endorsing this whole project instead of doing absolutely nothing.

[Pablo Torre]

It's a great question that Calais Campbell just asked, I believe, because he just asked that question. It's a really good question. There's sloppiness in this. There's sloppiness all over the place. Because, yes, all you had to do was do a couple of things. But the whole. This is the legend, right? Like people are saying, yeah, you're snitching on Kawhi Leonard. Kawhi Leonard, to me, is not the villain of the story. Kawhi Leonard is maybe the most clear cut example of a straight up capitalist, right? Boardman gets paid, dude wants money. Dude doesn't want to work, he wants to get paid. And so Kawhi Leonard could have done some of that stuff to give everybody plausible deniability. He preferred not to. He signed a deal. In the contract, which we have. We have the signed and executed endorsement. Kawhi Leonard, his autograph right next to the guy who turns out to be, by the way, the youngest speechwriter in White House history for Bill Clinton, Andre Cherney, the co founder of Aspiration. In that contract, he has outs that our pal David Sampson poured over, in which you clearly see Kawhi was also not obligated to do anything. They just didn't count on people like me, I guess, ever caring enough to follow the clues down the rabbit hole and find out that, oh, wait, this was a job that required you to do nothing and you did nothing. And so that feels like a problem.

[Zagaki]

Gotta want to learn, Gotta want to earn.

[Chris Cody]

Kawhi don't want to learn. Kawhi don't want to earn.

[David Sampson]

Pablo, if. If they did what the. What Calais Campbell was suggesting, which is just, you know, a little thing here or there for Kawhi to do, wouldn't that. If I could check the counterpoint, wouldn't that have then tipped someone off to this. This endorsement he's doing? And then maybe we would have found out that Ballmer was funding. And of course it's like, hey, the bell rings that, wow, that's probably not a good thing for the salary cap.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it's a. That's also, I mean, logical question. Now the thing about this story, though, is that aspiration, while totally obscure until really, like, it goes viral. This morning they were announced to be the 23 year, $300 million plus founding sponsor of the Intuito. They were announced. There is a. We have press conference footage of Steve Palmer sitting next to Joe Sandberg, the guy who has now pled guilty to two cuts of Wire fraud, by the way, and a nine figure fraud as investigated by the doj and now still the sec. So this was out there. It's just that nobody knew Kawhi was working for them. But, but Zaz, to your point, like, the reason I found out about this is because in the bankruptcy filing, because the company has of course collapsed and it's into disgrace and financial ruin. In the bankruptcy filing, you see the list of creditors, and buried there, which was publicly available, by the way, was this line item that said $7 million outstanding to KL2Aspire LLC. And I looked up what that was in the California Secretary of State database and it was, oh, Kawhi Leonard's llc. Interesting. I then Google did he ever do anything for aspiration? Because I'd never seen that. And it's weird to have Kawhi Leonard as one of your top endorsers. And there was nothing. And at that point, that's when I'm like, something doesn't add up here. And it turns out a lot didn't add up for anybody.

[Zagaki]

Pablo, this is a bombshell at the foot of the NBA right now. And the commissioner, what do you imagine the repercussion might be of this story?

[Chris Cody]

Before you answer that, Pablo, let me just hear some Calais Campbell sound to see if Pablo's got it right. Because he does indeed find out that whoever that is spe in that modulated voice sounds like Calais Campbell.

[Zagaki]

Well, thank you. Well, thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

I take that as a compliment.

[Zagaki]

Wow. I think that is a compliment as well. Sorry the dog got rid of it.

[Pablo Torre]

So friendly.

[Chris Cody]

What are the repercussions going to be?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I mean, this is, this is, this is the parlor game that I find absolutely fascinating because Steve Ballmer, to reiterate, has a. Denied any wrongdoing, didn't know about any of this, says it's provably false. I await the proof, frankly. But nonetheless, Steve Ballmer is the richest owner not just in the NBA, but all of sports. Right. He's the good guy who saved the Clippers from noted racist Donald Sterling. He has Barack Obama sitting courtside. All of this stuff means he's both powerful and a good spokesperson for the league that wants to be on the good guy side of things. But yet you have this other dynamic where Steve Ballmer, who paid for the Intuit Dome with personal private money. No, public funds. Right. Great on him. He has spent so much money to expand his front office, because that's uncapped. Here you have the problem of why Adam Silver called in 2019 according to the athletic report on the investigation, a cardinal sin of alleged cap circumvention in which the NBA, per that report, had outlined possible consequences, forfeiture of draft picks, million dollar plus fines. At the most extreme end, the nullification of contracts for the players whose salaries were circumvented. So I go back to history and I'm like, what's the last time this happened? And the only analogous case in terms of documentation and salary capture convention was the Minnesota Timberwolves. Joe Smith, which I don't know if anybody in the container even remembers, but Joe Smith and Glenn Taylor, the owner of the T Wolves, had worked out a side deal and it was written on paper because they were afraid Glenn Taylor was going to die before the completion of that contract. It's a total side fascinating story, but.

[Chris Cody]

This has the potential to be the biggest salary cap crime that we've seen.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, yes, $28 million. And by the way, for the T Wolves in that era in the 90s, five first round picks, suspensions for the owner of the team for Glenn Taylor, as well as other punishments down the line. But this has tied into again an ongoing SEC DOJ investigation into fraud by this green bank, this climate change friendly company whose biggest investor, at least the most important influential notable investor was Steve Ballmer, who put in $50 million of his own money. I mean, this is not merely a story about capstar Convention. This is now a question that the seven sources I spoke to are asking, what else did Steve Ballmer know about? How does one guy have influence over this company in this way? And yet total ignorance about everything else. It's just a question being okay, that.

[Stugatz]

Joe Smith thing happened over 20 years ago and Glenn Taylor's still around, which is also interesting. Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. It's also NFL season, lots of big time matchups. You know, your boy is an NFL free agent, so he's looking all across that NFL schedule for the very best games. And when I do, my very first and only stop is the Game Time App. Because the Game Time app gives the advantage back to the fans. It's a hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in just a few Taps. It's incredibly easy to use. And the Game Time guarantee means that you can trust that you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the very best price. Plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. You have incredible features such as zone deals. You get to save even more when you choose a section and let Gametime choose the seats you get. Panoramic seat view. If you know nothing about the venue you're about to buy tickets for, this is a huge tool. Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off your first purchase terms. Apply again, create an account and redeem code D8N for $20 off. Swipe tap Ticket. Go download the GameTime app today.

[Pablo Torre]

What's up listeners? I don't know about you, but when I was a kid I certainly dreamed big. I think when we were all kids, we dreamed big. Whether we wanted to be astronauts, presidents. Personally I wanted to be a pitcher for the then Florida Marlins. Now we're dreaming of something else like owning our own businesses. But let's be honest, launching it is total chaos. Websites and shipping, your cousin who wants.

[David Sampson]

To collab, it's a mess.

[Pablo Torre]

That's where Shopify comes in. They power 10% of all E commerce in the United States. From brands like Mattel to your aunt's candle shop. Can't design a site, Shopify's got ready to go templates. Need help writing copy or touching up pics? AI tools want customers built in email and social tools. And if you get stuck 24. 7 support real award winning human beings. Turn those dreams into and give them the best shot at success with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com batard go to shopify.com batard shopify.com batard.

[Stugatz]

Hey listeners, it's Mike. Hey, Billy Gill.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hey.

[Stugatz]

Hey, Billy. As a proud member of your inner circle, remember when we were hanging out last weekend?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. Fishtail Palms.

[Stugatz]

Fishtail Palms. Great memories. We made kids playing in the pool and in our hands, a nice ice cold can of Miller Light. It was so hot out.

[Dan Le Batard]

I know, but it was so cold in my hand.

[Stugatz]

We took that first sip. It was crazy crisp. It was refreshing. Oh man. There is nothing like cracking open a Miller Light with your crew and your inner circle bones.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hell yeah, we fist bumped.

[Stugatz]

Whether it's we we actually really did. Whether it's that touchdown make a sound.

[Dan Le Batard]

But I just thought bam, boom.

[Stugatz]

Whether it's that touchdown you didn't see coming or just arguing about fantasy lineups. You and I did plenty of that. Miller Light has been the taste that you can depend on for 50 years. Brewed for flavor with simple ingredients, rich toffee notes and that iconic golden color. And here's a kicker, Billy.

[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Stugatz]

It's just 96 calories.

[Pablo Torre]

What?

[Stugatz]

3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite Great Taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Don LeBatard Pablo leads all of podcasting in reading while smiling.

[Pablo Torre]

If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having the time of his life.

[Stugatz]

Stugats coming up next.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm gonna tell you, the Savannah Bananas are changing.

[Stugatz]

How do you know I'm Savannah Bananas?

[Dan Le Batard]

How do you know I'm smiling?

[Stugatz]

That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say, savannah Bananas.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Stugatz]

Legacy media. They have to independently verify your bombshell reporting, but the NBA did just announce several media partnerships. They're basically on every night. They have so many big time media partners. So far I haven't seen ESPN touch this story. Do you actually think this gets traction beyond where it is right now? I know you have a big partnership with the athletic. They're going to be pumping it out there. But do you think the big time partners of the NBA are going to touch this with a 10 foot pole?

[Pablo Torre]

It's a great question. It's a really good question. We, we await. We, we await. I feel like what is an obvious, obvious decision to of course cover the biggest news in basketball today. And by the way, it's not merely, oh wow, we have to do this whole thing. They spent 80 minutes on this documentary. How can we possibly do that in a segment? The question would be what should the NBA do if these allegations are approved? How do you handle this capture convention and Kawhi Leonard, that is a talker. And so by the way, like, yeah, I don't know who has or hasn't covered this stuff yet, but I can tell you that the NBA, they were not aware, this is not a story they had previously investigated and said, ah, there's nothing here. This is catching them with a level of surprise that I think says a lot about how secret this entire operation was.

[Dan Le Batard]

Pablo, you named also celebrities who were listed as endorsers and had some involvement with this company. So were they duped or were they potentially in on what was going on?

[Pablo Torre]

They seem to be victims. That said, I think the question of like, what are you obligated to know about? The thing you give your name to is a thing I think about all the time working with you guys. But also when it comes to people trying to be good guys who are getting into partnerships with people who are not so good, actually, the question would be Leonardo DiCaprio, did you know? Or Robert Downey Jr. When you made that commercial that we put into the episode, did you know what you were really endorsing? A question that many celebrities have fallen into traps about, in fairness to them. So that seems all logical. But when you're alleged to be the greatest investor of the last 20 years, a guy in Steve Ballmer who was a titan of industry, again, the sixth richest person in the world, who has a personal relationship to the players involved here. And by that I mean the actual executives at this company that you partnered with them 23 years, $300 million. Right. How is it that you don't know would be the question. And that's a different question for a celebrity than a businessman.

[Stugatz]

Pablo this is a cap sport. This is an unfair advantage. I imagine other teams are pretty pissed off about this. But I got to imagine across all the cap sports in this country, there might be some teams and owners that are a little bit nervous. Is it likely that Steve Ballmer just invented this idea and was the first to execute it, or do you think the league has to do some asking around right now in terms of punitive measures because this might be a bigger problem than just his story?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. If you think about every owner's foremost incentive as self interest, then the question becomes what else have everybody. What else have you guys been doing? You know, what have you guys been up to? I doubt that there has been a story with this level of documentation and depth in terms of how they tried to do it that was only caught again because the company collapsed into bankruptcy. But I think it's interesting, right, if you think about the room where they have to debate this stuff, the foremost voice when it comes to complaints to the league office about how small market teams have basically been crushed by rich guys. Now these new billionaires, the new owners, the richest guys in sports history like Steve Ballmer, that team has been the Oklahoma City Thunder. Historically, they always raise this stuff. They can tell the difference between what they can do and what they can't. That Ballmer, for instance, could that team happens to be the team that won the trade for Kawhi Leonard, that won the title using the guy that they got in, Jake Ilges Alexander, who won the MVP in the finals, then in the regular season and won a title this year. And so it's just interesting. I just wonder, like, what does that team have to say given that their trade partner happens to be maybe the entity that they should be philosophically opposed to, but in this personal context, you know, maybe that's a different calculus.

[Chris Cody]

I, I should clarify some of the word choices I had earlier when I called it the biggest salary cap crime that there is. This isn't an actual crime. It's just within the context of basketball. I don't think that we've had anything around the salary cap that has a player of this magnitude or dollar amount of this magnitude.

[Pablo Torre]

The language there is important and also speaks to the whole thing of like, in the NBA, there is a justice system. There are laws that the federal government ostensibly cares nothing about. The difference here in what we report in the story and very carefully report using again, seven sources who work for the company, is that the very that is getting the Clippers into hot water today because of this reporting is the thing that has caused those seven sources to actively wonder about what else Steve Ballmer might have been aware of, which is directly relevant to what the SEC and the DOJ are curious about. We are not alleging anything. We are simply saying this is a sports story that has actual resonance, even if the one thing is not a crime. The question is what else in the world of legality might actually be connected.

[David Sampson]

Pablo rather than the league possibly voiding Kawhi Leonard's contract with the better punishment be that the Clippers have to keep Kawhi.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I thought about this one too. This whole trade, man, like, it's funny. Like, do you, if you're the Clippers right now, it's kind of a, it's a bit of a blessing in disguise if you think that Kawhi Leonard is no longer worth the Max plus contract that he's been signed to, right. If he's not healthy would be the operative question. All of this though, it reminds me, right? Like, man, it was such the obvious choice at the time to get Kawhi Leonard. And Ballmer looked like a genius for doing whatever he did to get him. Because there's no better player than a prime Kawhi Leonard coming off a title with the Raptors, two way player, all that stuff. And now it's like, yeah, welcome to sports Steve is a bit of what's happened here. The double insult, the double bind is this story today for a guy that you may not even want in the same way anymore because his body turned out to be not trustworthy either.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do we know if trees were actually planted? Because like Dan said, like, well, it isn't actually illegal, it's just them getting around the salary cap. But if they're raising money to replant trees and they're just using that money to pay celebrities to do nonsense, then crimes might have actually been committed.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I mean, there look. So the co founder of the, of the company, Joe Sandberg, who is a big Democrat politician in California, pled guilty. Two counts of wire fraud, nine figure scheme, all that stuff. Guilty there is. But by the way, the climate change pose, right, like Trump's administration comes to an end, the first one, and people are like, it's time for the good guys to make some banks. And so their logo, their motto was clean rich is the new filthy rich. And then part of the investigation, Billy, and it's again a very good thought is did you guys even plant the trees? And the source that we have in the episode points out that in their experience at the company, in all this documentation, there was precisely one visit to a tree planting site. So in short, the answer seems to be no, they didn't really plant all of those trees. Despite claiming, by the way, Andre Cherny, whose signature was on the contract with Kawhi Leonard, he had claimed we plant as many trees every day, even more, actually more trees every day than there are in Central Park. None of that seems to have been true.

[Chris Cody]

I should let everyone know that at 3:30 today Eastern, Pablo and Amin and Samson will be popping up on our YouTube because I'm sure after seven months of investigation that there was a lot left on the cutting room floor. These are exhaustive episodes. And so if you want more information than anyone else is gonna be able to give you at 3:30 in the afternoon today Eastern, Pablo will be doing something that, you know, takes you places where I think people might suspect that sports go sometimes, but it's damn near impossible to ever prove this stuff, even when there's an NBA investigation. What, what didn't we ask you that? We should have asked you, what are the other things here? I don't know how the reporting on this began. I don't know what you think the most revealing things are that your sources told you.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I just love the fact that like, by the way, Doc Rivers was, was a guy who invested in this. And so it's just like, okay, we had David to assess the contract language. As the former president of the Marlins, guy who signed many sponsorship deals, we had a mean on because if you don't think that we tapped into his Doc Rivers, you have another thing coming. Yeah, we have this whole thing, man. This whole thing is absurd. It's just absurd.

[Chris Cody]

He wasn't there for important things. He was just there for his Doc Rivers impersonation.

[Stugatz]

That is important, Dan.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's a good impression.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think you appreciate how good that impression he had an Obama in this episode because Obama comes up. He had a doc in this one. But then it's like, truly and for the David side of things, just imagine the absolute. Just like the pig in manure dynamic of David getting to just put on his little glasses and read a contract that he has no idea what's in. And he gets to point out all of this stuff that's crazy. Like there's a part of the contract, right? So Kawhi Leiner does nothing, gets paid more than anybody else combined. More than four times as much as all the A list avengers.

[Chris Cody]

We mentioned DiCaprio, Robert Downey Jr. Just the a list of A list.

[Pablo Torre]

Drake. Drake, you know, Orlando Bloom. So meanwhile, Kawhi Leonard has this clause in his contract where he doesn't have to do anything if it's not in accordance with his, quote, beliefs. And it's just an incredible. And also, he doesn't get paid if he doesn't play for the Clippers. So I'm just like, they can try to spin this in lots of ways, but on some level, there's an IQ test dynamic. Here are all the. All the facts he reported. Here are all the documents. Here's the source on tape. Here's a guy doing a weird Doc Rivers impression. Here's a guy telling you what these endorsement deals are supposed to be like. What do you think? I can't really do much more to the NBA than give them all of the things they need to allegedly care about the justice that they talk about being a cardinal sin.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real. And so is the relief from Ebglis. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintained skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Chris Cody]

A 250 milligram per 2 milliliter injection is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis. That is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe.

[Pablo Torre]

Eye problems can occur.

[Chris Cody]

Tell your doctor if you have new.

[Pablo Torre]

Or worsening eye problems.

[Chris Cody]

You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection.

[Pablo Torre]

Searching for real relief? Ask your doctor about eblis and visit epglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

[Stugatz]

Labor Day savings are happening right now at the Home Depot. So what are you working on?

[Chris Cody]

Prep for fall with our wide selection of cordless power tools that make it.

[Stugatz]

Easy to clear your lawn starting at $79.

[Chris Cody]

And once the leaves are clear, keep your yard looking fresh with colorful mums.

[Stugatz]

That bloom all season long.

[Chris Cody]

Shop Labor Day Savings now through September 3rd only at the Home Depot. See select stores for details. Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live.

[Pablo Torre]

She saved so much she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them.

[Chris Cody]

Sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more Expedia made to travel savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.

[Zagaki]

Don LeBatard this is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes. Stugats, everybody. This is the quickest it goes.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, this is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

I love the picture that's behind you that they're going to put on the full screen. Dan of 1 David Sampson looking through the contract in the context of like, O.J. simpson. If I did it, like, this is how I would have done this exact thing. And then I'm also looking at the setup on that screen where Pablo those are props. Like, that's blank copy paper that you guys stacked up is like, here's 7,000 documents. We go, like, that's insane. That's freshly taken. Those are like just reams of paper, correct?

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely not. How dare you.

[David Sampson]

How dare you guys put one paperclip.

[Dan Le Batard]

On, one little stack on the top and everything else.

[Pablo Torre]

It's.

[Chris Cody]

It does look like in the movies when they put $100 bill on the top of the suitcase and everything under it is just a bunch of confetti.

[Dan Le Batard]

The prop person did barely more than Kawhi did for trees. In fact, they did worse for trees because they wasted trees on all that paper.

[Zagaki]

Looks like a prop contract.

[Pablo Torre]

Wow. Prove it. That's what I have to say to you. Prove it. You think you can find that out? Prove it.

[Zagaki]

Pablo, to your point, the absurdity of all this. If they do one commercial with Kawhi Leonard.

[Chris Cody]

You already said that. All right, we got that. We got that.

[Zagaki]

Thank you.

[Chris Cody]

We got you.

[Pablo Torre]

It's absurd.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo. See you later, Pablo.

[Zagaki]

This whole thing is aborted.

[Pablo Torre]

He's one of the great defensive tackles in South Florida history. Like that.

[Zagaki]

Thank you, Pablo.

[Chris Cody]

Defensive.

[Zagaki]

Great reporting, Pablo.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre finds out. Go check it out. It's already exploded. The original tweet this morning about the Pablo episode is over 3 million views. Because he's the only one who has this information. He's going to be the only one for a while. He'll be ahead of this story 3:30 live on YouTube. He will give you more information. We're going to get out of that now because as we've got football to get to. Good. See you. Pablo, thank you for the reporting. Thank you for the work from the Harvard Club. Having seen the episode, I will tell you guys, this part made me laugh, because if you don't know what the story is about. Amin, David and Pablo talk for 15 minutes, a full 15 minutes at the top of the episode, without telling you exactly what the story is about. And it reminded me of a mistake I made many years ago. My reporting on the Dallas Cowboys White House many years ago, where Michael Irvin had a home, where the players, away from their wives, partied. I put that in a column about 20 paragraphs in. In a story about Eric Rhett going to a nightclub and super bowl partying. So 20 paragraphs into a story. I didn't actually put in that the Bucks had one of these too that they called the Batcave.

[Pablo Torre]

What?

[Chris Cody]

That is correct. And the thing that the Dallas Cowboys did that I was reporting, I thought wasn't as important as what it is that you're reporting. I don't understand why it is you guys talked for a full 12 minutes before telling us what the hell the story was.

[Pablo Torre]

Hold on, hold on. Because. Hold on, Dan, did you watch the Sixth Sense and be like, they waited till the end to tell me that he saw dead people. Come on. What are you. What are you. Spoiler alert.

[Chris Cody]

Spoiler alert.

[Pablo Torre]

Also, there's a bat cave. What? Why have you been holding out on me?

[Chris Cody]

Good talking to you. See you later. Thank you. Good.

[Pablo Torre]

Send a tip. Good work. Send a tip into the, into the Pablo Tori finds out tip line Batcave.

[Chris Cody]

You didn't even answer how the reporting on this started. Maybe we'll find out at 3:30 when he sits down with David Sampson and Amin Alhassan. So you guys are in agreement because you guys all, you're all saying, oh, this happens all the time. But we don't have very much proof of this happening all the time.

[David Sampson]

It's all the time. I don't think so. I think, I think eventually look how sloppy this was. Now that we're getting this information and we're just finding out about it now, like I don't think that this happens all the time.

[Stugatz]

There was one high profile incident of this happening in the NFL and it was a little slap on the wrist. There was salary cap circumvention with John Elway and Terrell Davis. The league docked the Broncos a third round draft pick and fined them $2 million.

[Chris Cody]

I don't know what the penalties on this are going to be. The NBA, as Pablo just told you, is going to be scrambling to figure out how to penalize the Clippers for this. Because I will say to you, once you're screwing with the integrity of the structure of the league. The Lakers were going to get Kawhi Leonard, put him with LeBron and change how the league looked. And the Clippers, the laughing stock of Los Angeles for the entire time they've been in Los Angeles before Kawhi Leonard did something that landed Kawhi Leonard. There is no way that the league handles this in a way that is soft. Something is going to come down on Ballmer and it's not because Silver's a badass. It's because of how mad all the other owners are going to be about finding out about this. Mickey Harrison is going to go into the hall of Fame this week and I assure you that the other owners are going to be infuriated that there is something that looks like proof on. Oh, that's how they did it. That's how the laughing stock Clippers managed to convince Kawhi and Uncle Uncle Dennis to go to go to the laughingstock Los Angeles franchise.

[David Sampson]

I think it's fun to imagine how David Stern would have handled this if he were commissioner. Cuz Adam Silver, I mean come on.

[Chris Cody]

You know, it's not gonna be Silver though. It's gonna be the owners. Like Silver works For the owners. The owners are gonna dictate what the penalty is on this, and I don't think it'll be soft.

[Stugatz]

Do you guys? We remember a couple months ago, we were talking about, do you remember where you were when the Kawhi transaction went down? And most of us actually had a memory of that. You remember why we had a memory of that? Because it was being positioned as the Clippers just saved the NBA from the next big super team. Because it was well assumed that Kawhi was teaming up with LeBron and going to the Lakers. There were all sorts of reports of meetings and what was being asked. And then, like a thief in the night, came Steve Ballmer and the Clippers, and it was all predicated on that Paul George trade. And then we saw the whole picture come together. But when this deal first happened, everybody was super thankful that it did because the league was saved. And it was going to be more parody, especially in Los Angeles.

[David Sampson]

And don't forget, there were all these rumors at the time of what the uncle was asking of teams when it came to signing his nephew. It was, you know, potentially private jet whenever he wants, and it was buying a home, and it. It was endorsement deals, it was ownership stake, and it's like, we can't give you any of that.

[Stugatz]

You're starting to look at Kawhi's entire career a little bit differently, because I think I. If I fell on one side, I was pro Kawhi happen with the Spurs. This is just another element of shadiness that makes you revisit that.

[Chris Cody]

Oh, but I don't. I'm with Pablo on this in not blaming Kawhi for being maximum capitalist mercenary. The salary cap in general is a stupidity. It's because guys like Ballmer can't control themselves. When they want something, they know exactly how to buy it. And so I'd like to see all of those people bidding maximum amount of dollars because you want to pitch Jerry Jones against Daniel Snyder and see who wants the quarterback more and see how much that money's gonna rise. The salary cap is a stupidity, because these owners, all powerful owners, cannot control themselves when it comes to this sort of thing. And seeing Steve Ballmer want to get in this game so badly when he's the sixth richest man in the world. You know how these owners work. These are their playthings. But you think they're going to be less competitive with their playthings than they are about money. These other owners are going to read this this morning, and that's going to dictate the penalty. It's not going to be about Stern Silver, any of that. It's every owner waking up this morning. Imagine Ishbia, or, well, this is pre Ishbia. But all of these, somebody with Ishba's mindset seeing this and being like, wait a minute, it looks like they cheated to get somebody because they don't care about our rules when it comes to.

[David Sampson]

Keeping things equitable, if the punishment is not as punitive as maybe you're making it sound, it should be. Would that be a sign that other owners don't want their business to come out as well?

[Stugatz]

That's why I'm super curious, because I'm sure you have some small market teams that understand what they're going up against in that league. They don't have certain advantages. And now the large markets are going above and beyond the league rules to acquire some of these people. They're a part of the league, too. They are shareholders in the league, too. But to the question that I asked Pablo is. I gotta imagine Palmer can't possibly be the first person that considered something like this.

[Chris Cody]

Well, but nor is Kawhi the first person to ask. I've told you guys before, the amount of asks that LeBron's people made when they got to Miami because they knew what they were bringing to Miami. The answer was no. Please give us hundreds of season tickets. Hundreds. You know what those were worth the first year? Hundreds of season. Imagine what hundreds of seasons of tickets, season tickets would be for the LeBron James crew. There's nothing wrong with making the ass. I learned this. I told you guys this story. I don't know if you remember this at the Cleveland or. One of Stugatz's friends came in one day and it was Stugatz's friend. And so that person came in and made me take, I'm gonna say 45 minutes worth of pictures with him and his kid. 45 minutes. But with. Because it was Stugaz's friend, I did it. And then at the end of it, I was 40 minutes past my expiration date. The guy looks at me and says, can you call your father and ask him to come in? And I look at Stugatz and Stugatz. Stugatz's response was, yeah, you just keep asking until they say no.

[Dan Le Batard]

Were you blinking? Like, what was going on? Like, why did you take so many photos new pose, like different spots in the studio? Like, what happened?

[David Sampson]

That's a good question.

[Pablo Torre]

You can be an awkward photo taker.

[Stugatz]

About like 70% of the time. The eyes are closed.

[Chris Cody]

I don't blame a player for wanting more and more money in this situation. I don't think that this is going to do anything to Kawhi Leonard's legacy that he wanted more money.

[Dan Le Batard]

He blinked, obviously.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[David Sampson]

No one would just take 45, like for fun.

[Dan Le Batard]

I remember a lunch we had where a kid came and we took a couple pictures with the kids and that got really. That got dicey because the kid sat in Dan's seat and it was a whole thing. Gary was talking to us about Nazis. It was a crazy meeting.

[Pablo Torre]

What.

[Chris Cody]

What's on me?

[Zagaki]

That's on you for, you know, agreeing to pose for 45 minutes worth of photo. That's ridiculous. I mean, come on. You know, and the other thing is, we're still trying to wrap our head around you burying the lead on that story where you got the Irvin White house in the 20th paragraph. Where's your news judgment on something like that?

[Chris Cody]

I mean, it seems like an immorality. It seems like something that players having a house where they have a affairs.

[Zagaki]

Yeah. So why wasn't that your lead?

[Chris Cody]

Again, an immorality. It's just a. I mean, it's a little thing on the side. It's not this story. It's not a story that has those kind of ramifications. It's just a gossipy TMZ thing.

[Zagaki]

It's bigger.

[Chris Cody]

It was bigger because it was the Cowboys.

[Zagaki]

Exactly.

[Chris Cody]

If I'd reported it was the Tampa Bay Bucks at the time, nobody would have cared. Zagaki, that's the way you do that.

[Zagaki]

That should have been in the documentary, the Jerry Jones documentary. I didn't see that. It was.

[Chris Cody]

It was in the documentary because there was nothing fresh in that documentary. They stole everybody else's reporting.

[Zagaki]

I'll mention that to Greg. I think he saw it.

[Chris Cody]

Is there any reason that you don't remember Greg's signature lines? Because the gaki is something I was.

[Stugatz]

Expecting you to say even though he's very much on camera as Greg, that kind of thing.

[Chris Cody]

Can we come up with a contest to get you a new expression to utter because you're using the old recycled tires ones and I'm wondering whether it is. We should just have a contest where you take applicants for a saying you're going to start using.

[Zagaki]

Now that sounds like something Greg would be interested in. Trailers for sale or rent. Yeah. Room select. $0.50. No food, no pole, no pets. I got no cigarettes. But thank you. Thank you, everyone. That applause is really heartwarming.

[Stugatz]

Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan. It's also NFL season. Lots of big time matchups. You know your boy is an NFL free agent, so he's looking all across that NFL schedule for the very best games. And when I do, my very first and only stop is the gametime app. Because the gametime app gives the advantage back to the fans. It's a hack for unlocking amazing tickets and experiences in just a few taps. It's incredibly easy to use and the game time guarantee means that you can trust that you'll get 100% authentic tickets on time and at the very best price. Plus fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. You have incredible features such as zone deals. You get to save even more when you choose a section and let gametime choose the seats. You get panoramic seat views. If you know nothing about the venue you're about to buy tickets for, this is a huge tool. Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off. Your first purchase terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem code dan for $20 off. Swipe, tap Ticket. Go download the Gametime app today.