The Big Suey: Nick Wright's Anti-Wemby Campaign (feat. Nick Wright)

Summary

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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

The Big Suey: Nick Wright's Anti-Wemby Campaign (feat. Nick Wright)
March 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

Recorded at the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this episode of The Big Suey features Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, the Shipping Container crew, and special guest Nick Wright (Fox Sports 1) for a lively and, at times, contentious debate on the NBA MVP race—chiefly the hype surrounding Victor Wembanyama (“Wemby”)—media narratives in sports, fairness in award voting, and the complex mix of arrogance and authenticity in modern athletes. The show also covers recent NBA news stories, scrutinizes player logic in award campaigns, and briefly interrogates the relationship between player mental health and PED suspensions.

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Key Segments, Discussions, and Insights

1. Nick Wright on Wemby and Fairness in MVP Debates (04:16–16:34)

The "Wemby Campaign": Is Hype Outpacing Accomplishment?

• Nick Wright expresses skepticism about the media and fan enthusiasm for Victor Wembanyama, arguing that the “Wemby MVP” narrative is moving too quickly for a 22-year-old who hasn’t yet played a playoff game or accrued substantive accolades.
• He notes that while Wembanyama’s confidence is generally lauded, similar traits have led to criticism for other players, especially young or international stars.
• Quote (Nick Wright, 05:04): “Typically a 22-year-old who's never won anything explaining to everyone how he's the best player and not why his team is the best...typically the media scolds that. Not with this guy.”
• Nick also pokes fun at emergent “supportive stats” like “roll gravity,” suggesting media and analytics pressure are inventing new reasons to propel Wemby ahead of players with more traditional success measures.

The MVP Criteria: Shifting Goalposts and "Roll Gravity"

• The show debates the validity of defensive impact as a chief MVP criterion.
• Nick argues offense has always dominated MVP awards, citing the separation of All-NBA (offense) and All-Defense teams as precedent.
• Quote (Nick Wright, 11:05): “Defense is 50% of the game when it comes to team success. It has never been 50 of the game when it comes to awards, which is why we have the all NBA team, the 15 best players, and the all defense team...”
• Nick places Wemby third on his MVP ballot, behind SGA (Shai Gilgeous-Alexander) and Luka Dončić, followed by Jokic. He bemoans a pattern of media building up new “it” stats to promote certain candidates.

2. The Panel Defends Wemby and Jokic (07:17–21:41)

• Zach Lowe and Dan challenge Nick, suggesting he’s soft-launching an “anti-Wemby campaign.”
• Team points out that Wemby didn't raise his MVP case unprompted; he answered questions with reasoned arguments.
• Actual quote from Wemby (10:00): “My first [argument] would be that defense is 50% of the game, and that is undervalued so far in your MVP race...”
• Mike Ryan likens the push for Jokic to when the NBA community was “bored” of Michael Jordan and gave Karl Malone the award, arguing every MVP gets harder after repeated success.
• Nick takes umbrage with the dismissal of Luka: “All Luka’s done since he's walked into the league is average 30 a night, carry teams deeper in the playoffs than their seed, create more open shots for anyone via actual drawing double teams and actual passes. And people are like, he yells at the refs too much.”

3. Style Wars: The Gucci Cardigan Interlude (22:32–24:55)

• Brief comedic detour in which Tony and Mike laugh over the price of Nick Wright’s Gucci cardigan, leading Nick to joke about wardrobe criticism—but also defending his wife’s fashion sense.
• Nick Wright (23:03): “This was purchased at a vintage shop. My wife who dresses me...is still angry about [mockery of cardigans].”

4. Advanced Stats, On/Off Differential, and MVP Expectations (24:24–26:33)

• Jeremy shares that Wemby leads the league in +/- on/off differential among players with 1,000 minutes; Jokic is second and Doncic is much further down. Nick acknowledges the metric’s value but sticks by his stance that Luka is being underappreciated.
• Nick presses for “fair expectations” for the Spurs’ postseason: If Wemby’s the best player in the league, “Finals or bust” becomes the media narrative, but he cautions against that pressure, suggesting incremental growth is standard for young stars.

5. Media Fairness and Contract Reporting: Rapoport and Orlovsky (26:35–30:13)

• Nick explains why reporting contract details (a la Ian Rapoport with Travis Kelce’s deal) can be misleading, even if technically true, due to salary cap trickery:
  Nick Wright (28:55): “You've now misled the audience. Travis Kelsey does not have a 3 year, $55 million deal. He has a 1 year, $12 million deal...To then report that he has something because it's technically true when it's wildly inaccurate...is ridiculous.”

6. The MVP Race Logic, Luca, Jokic, and “Soft-Launching” Take Culture (19:54, 21:25, 21:35, 22:05)

• Stan Van Gundy and Mike Ryan stake out Luka and Jokic as possibly the best offensive player ever, above even Michael Jordan.
• Nick counters that public perception is swayed by “blink tests” and inertia.
• Quote (Nick Wright, 22:05): “The reason I had [LeBron over MJ] was because what I had on my side was logic, truth and history...the reason you don’t is because people are like, ‘No, he’s not.’”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Typically a 22-year-old who's never won anything explaining to everyone how he's the best player...typically the media scolds that. Not with this guy.”
  — Nick Wright (05:04)

• “All Luka’s done...is upset a juggernaut one seed Phoenix and make Devin Booker cry en route to a conference finals at 22, and then upset OKC...en route to an NBA Finals at 24...”
  — Nick Wright (14:15)

• Wemby's MVP reasoning:
  “My first argument would be that defense is 50% of the game, and that is undervalued so far in your MVP race, because I believe I'm the most impactful player defensively in the league. Second argument...we almost swept OKC in the season and we dominated them three times...My third argument would be that offense impact is not just sports.”
  — Wemby (Victor Wembanyama), as quoted in the show (10:00–10:59)

• Roll Gravity Skepticism:
  “Whenever there is all of a sudden a groundbreaking stat that really supports one agenda and it’s a stat no one has ever mentioned in the history of stats before, I look at it with a somewhat quizzical eye.”
  — Nick Wright (12:55)

• “Is the argument here that Luka shouldn’t be in the top three? ...You guys are arguing that the guy who's going to win the scoring title on great efficiency...should just be an also ran in the MVP discussion?”
  — Nick Wright (19:54)

• “He’s obviously great...at one point going to be the best player in the league. I don’t think we are there yet. What I strive for...is fairness.”
  — Nick Wright (07:36)

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Additional Highlights

• Cardigan Comedy: Lighter moment where the crew rib Nick for his Gucci cardigan, connecting to themes of status, public perception, and surface judgments. (22:32–24:09)
• Spurs Expectations: Nick on media hype: If you declare Wemby the league’s best, do you set up for disappointment if the Spurs exit early? “Finals or bust” is unfair, he warns (25:13–26:33).
• Media Responsibility: Nick’s criticism of sports reporting that caters to agents/teams rather than informing fans, especially regarding contract details. (26:35–30:01)

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Paul George, PEDs, and Mental Health (34:09–44:49)

Dissecting Paul George’s PED Suspension and Mental Health Claims

• The panel transitions into a nuanced discussion about Paul George citing mental health struggles in explaining his PED suspension.
• Dan Le Batard questions whether George’s articulation—a link between declining performance (“I was playing poorly...my body hurt...I got sad, it affected my mental health”) and PED use—does a disservice to real mental health advocacy.
• Quote (Dan Le Batard, 36:17): "You can't just file it under, hey, my brain chemistry has something wrong with it. Because you're sad because you're playing poorly."
• The team distinguishes between serious mental health conditions and situational sadness caused by performance decline, pointing out the responsibilities of elite athletes to communicate clearly when offering such explanations publicly.
• Jeremy offers personal vulnerability, acknowledging that self-medication due to poor mental health is common, but intent and communication matter. (42:02)
• Consensus: While George’s struggles may be real, his justification is poorly articulated and blurs necessary lines between mental health issues and competitive disappointment.

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• The episode is a tour-de-force of basketball debate with Nick Wright at his most provocative, challenging narratives but also defending his methodology as rooted in fairness and logic.
• The crew is self-aware about their own biases and how sport narratives evolve as players become more familiar or "interesting" media stories.
• Brief, but sharp, forays into media criticism and the complexities of public discourse on athlete health—both physical and mental—underscore the show's commitment to layered, if raucously delivered, analysis.

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Segment Timestamps

• Nick Wright joins & gratitude debate: 02:42–04:44
• MVP/Wemby discussion kicks off: 04:16–16:34
• “Soft launching” anti-Wemby & MVP fairness: 07:17–13:55
• Jokic/Luka/MVP analysis: 13:55–16:34
• Cardigan fashion detour: 22:32–24:09
• Breakdown of Advanced on/off stats: 24:24–26:33
• Contract reporting & media fairness (Rapoport): 26:35–30:13
• Mental health and PED use (Paul George): 34:09–44:49

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In the show’s trademark witty, digressive style, the debate spirals with insight and humor—offering listeners a deep dive into how athletic greatness, media, and public opinion intersect in the modern NBA.

Transcript

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[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show, the podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast?

[Greg Cote]

I'm sorry.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Mike Ryan]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Dan LeBatard]

I've done it.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Show Producer or Staff Member]

This episode of the Dan Lebatard show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

The Crown is yours, Greg Cody.

[Mike Ryan]

Al Pacino was in the Godfather.

[Greg Cote]

Yeah, Good movie.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, that concludes Greg on movies. Nick Wright is with us now. He and his show have been nominated for a sports Emmy for Daily Sports studio show SportsCenter NBA today. This is some good company. NFL live Mina his nemesis assist Pat McAfee show Pablo Jeremy has been nominated for three Emmys. You're always talking about your three Emmys.

[Jeremy]

Be exciting if he wins all three. He can tie me.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo is nominated for three of these. I believe this is the first time

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

we've seen Nick since he won you guys a bunch of money. So should you guys be thanking him?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah. Little weird, huh? I mean, well, it's a little odd, isn't it? I was on. I was coming on every other week, and then the moment the wire transfer goes through, all of a sudden I, you know, you don't need me anymore. I don't know. It felt a little.

[Tony Reali]

I don't know.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Did you get proper thanks from the group? I saw some videos being made where cash was being thrown up in the air. And I assume that that got to you, but I also assume that we

[Mike Ryan]

can screw that up and possibly not show you any gratitude at all because our video team sometimes, you know, leaves a lot of money on the floor, you know.

[Dan LeBatard]

You know, Dan, I'm gonna be totally honest. I'm gonna. I, the. I think the shipping container, whatever they did or didn't do is gonna remain between us. I, I thought maybe, you know, you would invite me back on the show in the, you know, moments after. I know, the next day I was supposed to come on, but I was hammered.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Okay, Nick, this is an important detail. This is.

[Dan LeBatard]

Talked about that, but I needed a few hours to, you know, to gather myself. It's been weeks, but it's fine. It doesn't matter. I. Everyone won. I started a little rivalry in the poker world that I didn't mean to. That started on your show because the guy got really mad that I elude, you know, that I implied he might not be all the way above board. And then he and I got an argument in the game, then I won 137 grand and then everybody got paid. It was all good for everyone. Let's talk hoops. Good to see you guys. I missed your fat face.

[Mike Ryan]

Wemby, how do you feel about Wemby? If he wins the championship this year? He's going to hog many of them, I would assume.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, listen, if he wins the championship this year, that is a conversation to be had. I, I find the WIMBY discourse already a little unique in that the, the, the press conference he did yesterday or day before yesterday, where he's like, here's my three point plan as to why I'm the league mvp, is the type of thing that while I think you, Dan, historically, would like from your athletes most in the media hate stuff like that.

[Mike Ryan]

He was asked, he was asked to give his three points. Like, it's not like he went up there and volunteered it. He was asked.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, he. Hold on. He volunteered, I believe I'm the MVP. Then he was asked when what the three, you know, what his three reasons were. And I just don't typically a 22 year old who's never won anything explaining to everyone how he's the best player and not why his team is the best, but why he is the best. And the typically the media scolds that not with this guy who since he came into the league has been telling us about how the spurs play basketball the right way about. He just. There are a lot of characteristics of Wimby's overwhelming arrogance that I tend to like in athletes. You tend to like in athletes. Most of the media tends to scold in athletes. And with the 22 year old French kid, everybody applauds it. And. And now we're also to the place already where in defense of a guy who while undoubtedly being one of the five best players in the league and undoubtedly being a legitimate MVP candidate and undoubtedly being the clear cut best defensive player in the league because his offensive numbers are so pedestrian, we are now to the place of creating phrases and stats I've never heard of. I, I learned, I've watched basketball my whole life. For the first time in my life yesterday I learned about roll gravity. I'm like, oh, roll gravity. So that's why Wimby's 24 points, three assists or you know, equal Lucas 34 points in 10 assists or Joker's 30 points and 13 assists or Shay's 32 points and eight assists. It's the roll gravity and how he's carrying this scrappy group of upstart spurs that starts three McDonald's all American top five picks. That's it. That's what it is. It just feels like we are a little ahead of ourselves.

[Mike Ryan]

It feels like something else too, Mike.

[Zach Lowe]

It feels like, it feels like he's doing the start of you being an anti Wemby.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

He's soft launching.

[Zach Lowe]

You are so smart about picking your guys. LeBron, Patrick, Mahomes, I caution you. Aren't you a little worried? This guy's got all the traits to be unstoppable. It's like the easiest thing in the world to say, hey, Wimpy's gonna be good right now. What you're doing is dangerous, pal.

[Dan LeBatard]

No. So I'm not soft launching anything. And I what I am do. He's obviously great. He's obviously at one point going to be the best player in the league. I don't think we are there yet. And I also you know, ultimately, if anyone knows anything about me, what I strive for in the media landscape is fairness. And I just am not that familiar with many guys who, before they play in a single playoff game, before they win a single award of substance, can take to the podium and be like, hey, I should win the MVP because I dominated the defending champ and defending league mvp. I think that. Let's just do a thought exercise, okay? Let's say at Week 12 next season, Caleb Williams is in the MVP race. But Matt Staff. No, the Stafford won MVP. They didn't win the title, so it doesn't work. Exactly. But Stafford's way ahead. And Caleb Williams takes to the podium and says, hey, here's why I'm the mvp, and then goes right at Stafford's throat as a champion, as the defending league mvp, you think folks will be. And by the way, Caleb's won a playoff game. Caleb's done. Caleb has, up to this point in his career, has more pelts on the wall than wimby. You think people will be like, love it. I thought, wow, the confidence. Everybody look out, league's about to be his. Or would it be some scolding? I think it'd be some scolding. I. The Braun 18 years in, said, yeah, I think I'm the greatest player ever. And people are like, you can't say that about yourself. Wimby, 25 games in was like, I'm going to dominate the league. And I believe that I'm unstoppable. And everyone's like, wow, did you know he plays chess? I just find it interesting.

[Mike Ryan]

In a second, we're gonna play this sound, but just so that you know, Tim Reynolds asked him if he had thought about mvp, and then there was a question about title chances. And then the reporters brought it back to mvp. And here's what it is. He said, I think right now it

[Wemby (Victor Wembanyama) - quoted speaker]

is still reasonable that there is a debate. But as I said, I want to make sure. My goal is to make sure that there's no debate anymore at the end of the season. Three arguments. My first one would be that defense is 50% of the game, and that is undervalued so far in your MVP race, because I believe I'm the most impactful player defensively in the league. Second argument would be that we almost swept OKC in the season and we dominated him three times with their real team and four times with more rotation players.

[Mike Ryan]

And

[Wemby (Victor Wembanyama) - quoted speaker]

my third argument would be that offense impact is not just sports.

[Mike Ryan]

It's a French guy in debate club. It doesn't feel like arrogance to me, the way it's being delivered.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay, yeah, of course it doesn't feel like it because we kind of pick and choose that. But let, let me. If we're gonna do debate club, I will, you know that this is ground that I can, you know, maybe fair fight with Wimby on when he, he is right in that defense is 50% of the game when it comes to team success. It has never been 50 of the game when it comes to awards, which is why we have the all NBA team, the 15 best players and the all defense team. You know, we don't have Dan, hey, first team, all offense. You know why? Because we were like, well, that's the all NBA team. We have the mvp, the best player and the defensive player of the year. We don't have offensive player of the year because that's almost always the mvp. Now, Wimby can say, we need to redo this. This is not how it should be done. But throughout the entirety of NBA history, we have more than a dozen MVP seasons that nobody took issue with from objectively bad defenders. You know, we don't have one of an MVP season from an objectively bad offensive player because on an individual player level, offense does matter more. Now maybe Wimy will change that math. That's the first point. The second point is, and this is where I take a little bit of issue with him using their success against OKC as a reason he should be MVP. Those first three wins against OKC, Wimby was fine. He was 24 minutes a night. He, he was obviously dominant defensively. He was coming back from the injury. But be that was to me a testament to how deep their team is. I and then when he says offensive impact is more than points. Yes. It is also points created for teammates. Which two of the other three MVP candidates are the best in the league at In Luke and Joker, Wimy is three assists a game. But now I'm be now I, I, I am being told evidently that the corner threes the spurs are generating are because Wimby has a gravitational pull like STEPH CURRY From 35ft out. And I just again, whenever there is all of a sudden a groundbreaking stat that really supports one agenda and it's a stat no one has ever mentioned in the history of stats before. I look at it with a somewhat quizzical eye. That's all. Again, I would have him third on my MVP ballot. I think it'd be Shay Lee, Luca Wimby. But I think we do a thing where Luca who is no Jokic.

[Mike Ryan]

No Jokic. Zach.

[Dan LeBatard]

I would have Joker 4. I would have Joker 4.

[Mike Ryan]

He had 17 rebounds, 17 assists last night.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Zach Low goes SGA WEMBY.

[Mike Ryan]

Jokic. No Jokic is. Is like when people got bored and made Carl Malone the MVP because they didn't want Michael to win anymore.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

You can't. You can't knock out Jokic. You can't hold on.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I have him fourth, so we're. So you're just fine with. Again, the people have gotten bored with Luca before he's won an mvp. All Luke has done since he's walked into the league is average 30 a night, carry teams deeper in the playoffs than their seed, create more open shots for anyone via actual drawing double teams and actual passes. And people are like, he yells at the refs too much. All Luke has done is upset a juggernaut one seed Phoenix and make Devin Booker cry en route to a conference finals at 22, and then upset OKC in the Thunder and then an Edwards and the Timberwolves en route to an NBA Finals at 24 in a season he averaged 33.9 points per game. He is once again having a historically great offensive season. And people are like, yeah, but he doesn't fight through picks too often. Meanwhile, Steve Nash. How's those MVPs look? Steph Curry. How's your MVPs look? Dirk Nity. What about yours? James Harden. You still got the trophy. Luca can't win it because he's bad. I got your buddy Wilbon. Yesterday was like, don't even tell me. Don't even bring up Luca. Don't even bring up a guy who's 33, nine and nine on the three seed. I don't know. And as far as Joker, maybe you'll disagree with this. I do think historically this is accurate and it's fair that each MVP is harder than the last. That the reason Jordan didn't win seven and LeBron didn't win eight was because the. It keeps getting tougher.

[Wemby (Victor Wembanyama) - quoted speaker]

And.

[Dan LeBatard]

And so, yeah, I think Joker. The fact that. And God knows we're not. The only. The only MVP candidate we can talk about defensively is Luca. Meanwhile, Shea, while a good defender, is the worst defender in their starting lineup. And Joker has regressed this year defensively, but God forbid you bring that up with anyone but Luca. I think Joker, when they're right, you know, I. At last check, I think they're the five seed. I think that that is a fair reason to put Wimby and Luka ahead of him.

[Mike Ryan]

If I see because he hurt his knee. If I foresee because he hurt his knee.

[Nick Wright]

Mike, you know I have one rule to live by, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Don't place parlays on multiple long shots. Don't say a game is won when it hasn't hit triple zero.

[Nick Wright]

Always drink your Jagermeister ice cold. That's the rule. Everything else is merely a suggestion.

[Zach Lowe]

Everything else?

[Nick Wright]

Everything else.

[Zach Lowe]

Wearing clean underwear every day, well, that's

[Nick Wright]

just a personal decision. Brushing your teeth, obviously smart, but not a rule.

[Zach Lowe]

Never pee pee on an electric fence.

[Nick Wright]

Okay, maybe there are two rules. But the one that is 100%, that I insist on completely, Jagermeister must be drank ice cold or don't drink it at all.

[Zach Lowe]

Damn, that's cold.

[Nick Wright]

Exactly. You're finally starting to get it.

[Zach Lowe]

Drink responsibly. Jagermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume in by Mass. Jaegermeister US White Plains, New York Hey, Roy, buddy.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yo.

[Zach Lowe]

You know that energy shift when the game gets good and everybody all together in unison knows to stand up on their feet?

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, absolutely.

[Zach Lowe]

Mike.

[Nick Wright]

Yeah?

[Zach Lowe]

You've been at many big time sporting events. You know that moment quite well. That's what it's like when you take your first sip of Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, delicious.

[Zach Lowe]

It's the signal that says, we're not checking the time anymore. Palace. It's when small talk turns into stories. Cuervo, man. It's that high five. A random stranger effect. That's right. The game is popping. You're hugging people you never met before. That's the kind of energy that Cuervo brings. It's so smooth, so delicious. That's the Cuervo effect. Keep it Cuervo.

[Nick Wright]

Oh, folks, look at me. I'm in my 30s, which is old enough to know better and somehow still young enough to ignore that information pretty regularly. Like, you know me. I'll have a couple drinks, normal adult behavior, nothing crazy. And then the next morning, my body reacts. Like I have made a series of terrible decisions. With no supervision, my sleep score tanks. I wake up confused. Suddenly, even replying to one text feels like a full task. But that is why I have discovered and gotten into Cheers Restore. Alcohol hits differently now. It affects your brain, your sleep, your liver, all of it. And Cheers Restore is made for that. It's a dual action after alcohol aid designed to support your brain and your liver after drinking. And the origin story is wild. It started with a Princeton student researching dhm, which is this compound tied to alcohol related effects in the body. It's in Walgreens CVS 7 11. Basically everywhere. It was on Shark Tank. All I do is take three capsules after my last drink or before bed and the next morning is way less dramatic. Same night out, way better morning with Cheers. For a limited time, our listeners are getting 20% off your entire order by using code [e-mail] just head to cheershealth.com and use code dan for 20% off after your purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them the Dan Levitard show sent you.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Dan LeBatard. This is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes. Stugats, everybody. This is the quickest it goes. Yeah, this is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Mike Ryan]

Tony, you wanted to get in here.

[Tony Reali]

No, I just think that he's having the best season that he's ever had and he's already won three MVPs. He leads the leagues in rebound, in assist and it's like what you made the case, Nick. It's not a 5050 award of our. What are you doing for me in a defensive end like you talk about roll gravity. That's what Jokic brings every single night.

[Dan LeBatard]

So let's I think joke. So hold on. So then, then people tell me, is the argument here that Luca shouldn't be in the top three. Is that the argument? Because I know what this group thinks of LeBron as a player right now. I know we don't. We're not going to say Deandre Ayton is the defining person. Marcus Smart is Mike Ryan's age. Like what. What is the. The. Well, I didn't want to say my age because you're younger than me. Mike. I think he's the late 30s. I was a grandpa.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

You can't be coming out.

[Dan LeBatard]

I know, which is why I Marcus Smart. LeBron is my age. Mark is smart as Mike Ryan's age. I was trying to be accurate. I think Mike's younger than me. It's not the point. That wasn't a shot, Mike. I apologize. Like you guys are arguing that the guy who's going to win the scoring title on great efficiency, carrying a team that nobody thought was going to be the three seed to. The three seed should just be an also ran in the MVP discussion. The. That's the argument because it seems like you guys want Jokic to get more credit. Your guys show is one of the chorus of shows that every day prays at the altar of Wimby. That's fine. Nobody Obviously is going to knock Shay. He's they're the one seed. He hasn't had his second best player for more than half the year. These 32 points a game. He just brought a broke a Wilt Chamberlain record. So your guys beef is that Luca where Luka is.

[Mike Ryan]

Stan Van Gundy says Luka is the best offensive player there's ever been. And I've been soft launching for about two years now that I believe Jokic is a better offensive player than Michael Jordan. But I haven't been able.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

It won't get any traction.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, then I would consider hard launching it. Dan, if you've been soft launching it for two years, it may be maybe you need to know.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

You knew immediately when you saw soft launched. I'm going to make the controversial argument that LeBron is better than Michael Jordan. You knew immediately that you had gold. I keep getting out there with Jokic is better offensively than Michael Jordan because he's a loaf of bread. I can't get that kite off the ground.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, here's the problem. The reason I had gold was because what I had on my side was logic, truth and history. The reason you don't is because people are like, no, he's not. That's it. Hey, just, you know, I mean, it's a little bit of a blink test thing. We were like, yeah, no, he's not.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

We're running out of time here.

[Mike Ryan]

Hold on a second.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Just give me a second. Did you have something else? Did you want something to get to something else? Because I saw Tony. Tony and Mike were looking something up

[Mike Ryan]

back there and laughing and I'd like

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

to know what it is.

[Mike Ryan]

You were looking up and laughing, Tony.

[Tony Reali]

No, I just, you know, Nick, Nick would appreciate this. I'm a guy that kind of knows style and understands certain things. And I told Mike, hey, that's a Gucci cardigan. And then we looked it up and we saw how much it was. Yes, we just, you know.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, the conversation started. I was like, why does Nick have a bunch of 69s on his sweater? But then I was like, oh, it's Gucci, it's Gucci.

[Dan LeBatard]

Then we looked up the price phones of vintage clothing store. This was I. This was purchased at a vintage shop somewhere. You know, I probably.

[Zach Lowe]

It is Gucci, is it not? It's got the two GS because it's got the price tag on the sweater all over the place.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, listen guys, this is the second time. Careful now because this is the second time I've worn a cardigan on this show and it's become a subject of somewhat scorn in in my, you know, I guess momentarily famous Teta tet with now three time Emmy nominated Pablo Torre, if not more. The first thing he said was, you wore a cardigan into my studio. And while I focused on the 15 minutes that followed, my wife who dresses me, picks out all my clothes and is I think a fashion icon in my mind is still angry about that. She's like, I can't believe him. That cardigan was gorgeous. Now I'm wearing a cardigan again. Mike Ryan thinks I'm making some sophomore sexual jokes and Tony once again, even though he is my guy, is. It feels like this is the second instance of Tony kind of pocket watching me. I'm telling people that don't know they're googling prices of what I I wanted

[Zach Lowe]

that it was Gucci. I'm not saying it's a bad sweater and I know it's a cardigan.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right.

[Greg Cote]

That's what it cost.

[Zach Lowe]

I made the joke the two G's.

[Dan LeBatard]

Keep up, dad.

[Mike Ryan]

Jeremy, before I get to the last point here with Nick Wright, what do

[Jeremy]

you have for Nick Wright in terms of Wemby? Nick on off differential, right? The guys who when they're on the floor, their team is better. When they're off the floor, their team is worse. Amongst guys that have played a thousand minutes, Wemby is number one, Jokic is number two. Doncic is all the way down at like 40th in the league. Now your argument to that might be they can have LeBron James on the floor, but the spurs are supposed to be a great team even when Wemby is not there. Does that impact when he's on the floor versus when he's not not stack up for you in terms of the mvp?

[Dan LeBatard]

He is. It does. I I think being third in the MVP race is pretty good that season two like this is first off. I wasn't talking watching. I'm explaining to that don't have style what style looks like I'm giving you

[Jeremy]

I really like that cardigan.

[Zach Lowe]

To our guests who also gave us money very much.

[Dan LeBatard]

I listen I this I think being third in the MVP race is pretty great. I just also think that there are we are pressing fast forward and we are overlooking some historically great offensive seasons. Most notably I think by Luca. But that's fine. Lucas. I've always been partial to Luca. I also have this question like so for the folks that have been banging the drum, Wimy is the best player in the league, not that he will be. He's the best player in the league. He thinks he's the league mvp. What are the fair expectations for the spurs come this postseason? And what are like that's because I think, because again, I am a bastion of fairness and, and try equality. I think that if the spurs were to get clipped in round two by the veteran Laker team, there's no shame in that whatsoever. That is the path teams almost always take. You guys are setting it up to where if certainly they have to beat the Lakers. And Wimby just explained to us how they dominate okc, how he's the best player in that series. So that'd be damn near a gag job. If they lose, okay, Finals are bust.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

If the spurs won the title, it

[Mike Ryan]

would be unprecedented for a team that hasn't had any playoff suffering like they they would be unprecedented if they won the title this year. He's the host of FS1's First Things first and what's Right with Nick Wright, the podcast. We've got to get him out of here. But before you go, you said you're interested in fairness along the media landscape. What is your issue with Ian Rapoport? And do you have do have any thoughts on Dan Arlovsky being the only guy out there saying that Ty Simpson is the number one quarterback while also being repped by the same the same agent?

[Dan LeBatard]

So I'll answer both of those in reverse order. I think the agent stuff is so wildly unfair and ridiculous and what Dan said yesterday is correct. The idea that we work for agents, it's the opposite of that. The agents get a cut of our money. Agents work for us. So I I used to catch this stuff about clutch and rich and because my agent is partners with rich like the I, they work for us. So I think the idea that Dan is catering his takes to CAA clients. CA has got a million clients, broadcast and sports, so I think that's unfair. I have not I am not a college football film expert. I but I do respect that. I think Orlovsky has an opinion that he knows will be controversial and he's not couching it like he believes in something. He's arguing for it. And so I respect that. As far as Rapaport and this is going to make my life awkward. But again, bastion of fairness. I I have no problem whatsoever with Ian personally. None. I I've hung I had dinner with him a couple times in group settings. He's a nice guy. We have mutual friends and I think in general he's good at his job. But I think we have, we have crossed the rubicon from reporting the friendliest possible contract details because it makes the agents look good to outright misleading the public. When you, when, when you report that Travis Kelsey signs a three year $55 million deal that could be worth up to 58 million and that then is on the bottom line of shows fans that are not dialed, you know, dialed into spot rack like wow, three years 55 million. The, the, the Swifties are excited about it when everyone knows and knew two weeks ago that it is a one year 12 million dollar deal with $3 million of incentives that in year two and year three pays him the league minimum. And five days into year two if he's on the roster, he gets a check for $40 million which was put in as a dummy year so they can spread out the cap hit. You've now misled the audience. Travis Kelsey does not have a 3 year 55 million dollar deal. He has a 1 year 12 million dollar deal. If he does not retire, he will either be cut or that will be reworked prior to the fifth day of next league year because they're not going to give him a $40 million check. Travis doesn't expect it. The Chiefs don't expect it. His agents don't expect it. So to then report that he has something because it's technically true when it's wildly inaccurate because milk honey sports now owes you a favor is I think, ridiculous.

[Mike Ryan]

He's got to go. He's the best doing this right now.

[Nick Wright]

I always thought it was spo track, by the way.

[Show Producer or Staff Member]

I thought it was spotrack.

[Greg Cote]

No, it's spot. Right?

[Dan LeBatard]

You know what it might be? I might have gotten that you know what? Bad job by me that would probably cost me the Emmys.

[Show Producer or Staff Member]

On an island on your own now, Greg.

[Mike Ryan]

See you later

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[Mike Ryan]

Hear that?

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[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

He kind of like me.

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Hey, who wants to hear me do

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[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

I do.

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Ask your doctor about evgliss and visit evglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.

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[Greg Cote]

Don Lee, a woman who was out swimming with her friends is believed to have been swallowed whole by a 13 foot shark without any of her friends noticing. That's the weirdest part about that story. You're swimming with friends, you're having a good time and then all of a sudden people are looking around go, where's Shelly? Like nobody screamed.

[Jeremy]

Every friend group has a Shelly though that if they go missing because a shark ate them whole, you wouldn't notice.

[Show Producer or Staff Member]

Classic Shelly.

[Dan LeBatard]

Exactly right.

[Greg Cote]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Stugats.

[Greg Cote]

She went quietly. Apparently. If I'm swallowed whole by a shark, you're gonna know it.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats. Foreign

[Mike Ryan]

let's find out what the truth of that is in a moment. We're going to update our tournament in a moment. And we ran out of time or I would have just told him how some of his teams have been knocked out of our looks like tournament. But let's do that now. North Dakota State was represented by the Nick Wright Conference. That means this is gone.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nick Wright looks like a Geico caveman.

[Mike Ryan]

And number 15 queens also out of the tournament. That means this is out of the tournament.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nick Wright looks like Adam Driver if he wore his Kylo Ren helmet for a month straight.

[Mike Ryan]

We will update the rest of our tournament and tell you about the matchups that are coming up this week. But I wanted to get to this Paul George story as he returns. The 76ers would be and will be formidable if Paul George and Joel Embiid can play in a seven game start series. When those guys are out on the court together, that is a team that could beat anybody in the East. They're just rarely out on the court together. Maxi Edgecombe, Paul George at some level or capacity that is efficient and Joel Embiid could challenge everybody. But Paul George has said and I want to walk carefully here because I don't want to disrespect anyone's mental health but I think he's hiding behind it in a way that seems fraudy.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

And I'll explain it to you when you read some of these quotes.

[Mike Ryan]

Tony, look up the quotes for me here so that we can read some of the quotes because it sounds like Paul George is saying I was playing

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

poorly, my body hurt, I got sad, it affected my mental health. Therefore I used PEDs and that's not how mental health works. Like you got sad cuz you were playing poorly. Isn't something that you file under the umbrella of mental health to try and get away with your cheating because you know people will be careful about attacking Something that they need to be careful about. But the way that he's presenting this shows a basic misunderstanding of mental health. And the way he's communicating, it makes me feel like he either doesn't know what mental health issues are or is articulating them poorly. But just because you're playing poorly, you can't just say, mental health, mental health. You're sad because you're playing poorly. Like, this is how aging works. The body starts to betray you. You can't just file it under, hey, my brain chemistry has something wrong with it. Because you're sad because you're playing poorly.

[Tony Reali]

Here's the exact quote from pg. The most difficult thing is when your body isn't where you know it needs to be or where it once was. This leads and bleeds to the mental side of things, knowing that you're limited. But for me, I feel good. My body's feeling great. Mentally, I know I'm capable of doing what I need to do, and I've been able on the court for years now.

[Mike Ryan]

So this part is difficult because I don't know the depths of his mental health issues.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

But if you're gonna get suspended for 25 games and then use it as the armor against our questions, you need to explain it better. Like, if you're going to volunteer that that's the reason we shouldn't go after you for cheating, you need to do a better job of explaining to us what the issues are with the darkness and the brain chemistry. That would make it slightly more believable that you're not just sad because you're not the player you used.

[Tony Reali]

Another quote reads, being a pro athlete takes a toll on you. My body wasn't where I wanted it to be, the expectations to perform because of my body not being where it needed to be. Obviously, I'm gonna have expectations for myself. And that's what led to a poor decision at the time.

[Mike Ryan]

I will say, as I've said before,

[Zach Lowe]

that's ownership at the end. Dan.

[Mike Ryan]

I will say, as I've said before, professional sport is a mental health obstacle course. You're getting to work every day and competing with others who want to take your job and your money.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

You're competing against the desperate world war torn countries, the inner cities, over money.

[Mike Ryan]

You're at the top 1% of the top 1%. And every day you come into work, they're trying to figure out a way to get someone younger and cheaper to take your dollars. The whole thing is a difficult mental

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

health challenge for every single person who

[Mike Ryan]

has to Work in that environment.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

I cannot tell you the number of athletes who have articulated to me no joy in the doing of their work

[Mike Ryan]

except when those three hours of play are taking place.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

No joy anywhere else around it. Not before, not in the travel, not like the lifestyle.

[Mike Ryan]

Sure, I'm gonna say parts of the lifestyle. People don't understand the lifestyle. Getting to every city at 5am and having a walk around in a hotel

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

ballroom doesn't feel like whatever you imagine

[Mike Ryan]

is the height of athletic fame and glory. Many, many athletes, all they like about

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

sports is the three hours of performance. But most of life is not that three hours of performance. Most of life is a mental health challenge.

[Greg Cote]

I believe Paul George when he says there's a link between his mental health issues and his using peds. I don't have any reason not to believe him. The question is that a legitimate excuse, and I don't think it would be seen as one.

[Mike Ryan]

It is a legitimate excuse if mental

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

health issues are real and you are

[Mike Ryan]

taking some sort of medication that helps

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

you with your real mental health issues. But again, the way he's articulating this to me. You're shaking your head at me, Mike. But the way that he's articulating this to us in the quotes is saying, I'm sad because my body wasn't where it was. And that, yeah, that's why a lot of guys use peds.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, so there's a. There's a lot to chew on here. And I don't know if. If he's self diagnosed. I don't listen to his pod, so I don't know if he's consulted people on this. Here's what I do know. He broke the rule. And that's a. It's a very clear rule. And he could be taking stuff that is in line with the rules. There. There is, There is no confusion to these NBA players as to what's allowed for them to put in their bodies and what's not.

[Show Producer or Staff Member]

It's so easy to find out too.

[Zach Lowe]

And he broke the rule. Now, he may be offering up an explanation. It could also be looked into as an excuse and it could play into what you're saying, which is, you know, holding that up as a shield as he knowingly breaks the rule. I think that there are two things at play here, and I think he can have his struggles and I think he can be honest about them and he can even tout advocacy, but he broke the rule, and there's no real explanation for that. As meekly as he tries to offer

[Show Producer or Staff Member]

One, is it possible that he doesn't even like, like, is he lying? Is it possible that he's lying and he's just using the mental health part? Because. Yes, it's very difficult to question someone when they say that they're having mental health issues because there are. There have to be plenty of athletes, plenty of players in the NBA who are using antidepressants to deal. Like, there are hundreds of antidepressants out there that you are absolutely able to use, prescribed by a doctor that is not gonna get you pinched against the league's ped.

[Zach Lowe]

I think what Zaz is saying is super important. Paul George is definitely not the only person in that league struggling with mental health.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

He is so many players. The only one, though, getting the rare 25 game suspension from a league that doesn't do a lot of that.

[Zach Lowe]

That's right.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

The only one I'm asking.

[Mike Ryan]

That's also.

[Zach Lowe]

That's also a credit untruthful. Right? That's also a credit to the players that are going through this, that know the rules, that have what they feel is like the very same excuse and are choosing to follow the rules.

[Mike Ryan]

I wouldn't go as far as to slap him with the pejorative of lying. To me, this sounds like someone who's not properly informed on the spectrum of mental health issues.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

When he articulates it in a way that says to you flatly, it's the opposite of lying. It's a little too honest. I'm sad because my body doesn't work the way it's supposed to. It's not lying. He's speaking. He's being too truthful about what it is he did and why he did it. And that's making me question not whether he's lying about mental health as an excuse, whether he understands what he's talking about.

[Jeremy]

If Paul George is someone who is predisposed to depression, he's been someone who is open about mental health throughout his career, not necessarily, for example, articulating it as well as Kevin Love, who is one of the guys who has been outspoken about these things and has gotten into some really, like, deep in depth conversations about his own treatment. Paul George is not saying here, I took a performance enhancing drug to help my body because my mental health was failing. What he's saying is my body was breaking down, which sent me into some sort of depressive state here. And so I took something that was banned. So what we don't know is was he trying to self medicate in some sort of way with his mental Health maybe Paul George is someone who is already taking some sort of pre approved antidepressant that is okay within the league, but then he decided to self medicate and he says, I made a bad decision at the time. Look, I'll be somewhat vulnerable here. I've gone through major ups and downs with my own mental health and have gone through stages where I have self medicated in ways that I wish I wouldn't have. And now I've gotten the proper medications diagnosed by a doctor that help me stay stable in those things. Paul George maybe is someone that didn't consult with a doctor and should have. He violated the rules, he was suspended and now he's showing up vulnerably and saying, hey, I made a mistake, it's my fault, I'm owning it, I'm explaining to you why. And now after 25 games off, my body feels good. I'm not going to make this mistake again. I don't think that we need to necessarily like criticize him for using mental health as a crutch as much as it's a seemingly real and vulnerable explanation.

[Mike Ryan]

You're saying he's explaining it and I'm saying he's not explaining it well. He got fined $12 million and had 25 games to think about what he was going to say when he got back and how he was going to say it.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

These people have management and all sorts of people around them to help them with the delivery of that message, the way he delivered it, didn't reach me as someone who's predisposed to compassion and empathy in all of these circumstances. I'm reading this and I'm saying this is an affront to other people who are dealing with mental health issues. And it's not because of what he may or may not be suffering. It's because of how he's explaining it to me. I don't want to question what the depths of his despair are. The way he explained it to us though, is like, I wasn't playing well and so I did something I shouldn't have done.

[Zach Lowe]

And while he may not have consulted a mental health specialist as, as has already understood court, they are being consulted as to what is legal and what is not according to the bylaws of a league.

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

He did mental health advocacy no favors in any of this.

[Zach Lowe]

I agree, I agree. And his logic could be applied to anybody that has ever taken performance enhancers, ever, because I'm not good enough. And that is weighing on my mind.

[Jeremy]

Totally fair.

[Mike Ryan]

Unhappiness at work, of course, is a

[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

struggle deteriorating your body when you're competing against people whose bodies are functioning better. Yeah, that's a hardship. But you gotta explain it better than that.

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[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

Time to party.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a great attitude.

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[Dan LeBatard (Host)]

You sound insane.

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[Dan LeBatard]

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