The Big Suey: Seth Wickersham on Bill Belichick's "F*** You" to the NFL

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey - Seth Wickersham on Bill Belichick's "F* You" to the NFL**

Release Date: December 12, 2024
Podcast: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz
Guest: Seth Wickersham
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz delve deep into the recent developments surrounding Bill Belichick, the legendary NFL coach. Joined by esteemed sports journalist Seth Wickersham, the discussion navigates Belichick's apparent disillusionment with the NFL and his potential pivot to college football, specifically the University of North Carolina (UNC) program.

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Bill Belichick's Disenchantment with the NFL

The conversation kicks off with Dan Le Batard referencing a headline from ESPN:

“Sickened by the politics of the NFL, Belichick aims for a college restart.” (Dan Le Batard, [03:14]).

Bill Belichick, an eight-time Super Bowl champion, has reportedly grown tired of the intricate politics and operational challenges within the NFL. This sentiment has reportedly pushed him to consider a transition to college football, where he might find more autonomy and control over a program.

Potential Move to College Football

Stugotz raises a compelling point regarding Belichick's move:

"If you're sickened by the politics in the NFL, then maybe this isn't going to work out." (Stugotz, [03:19]).

The hosts discuss the logistics and implications of such a move, contemplating whether Belichick teaming up with sports icons like Michael Jordan could revolutionize a college football program. Questions arise about Belichick's ability to connect with younger athletes and adapt his coaching style to the collegiate environment.

Involvement of Michael Jordan and Private Equity in Sports

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the business opportunities that could arise from Belichick's potential involvement with college football. Mike Ryan hypothesizes:

"If Belichick were to team up with Jordan on the restoration of the North Carolina program, because Belichick could Nike it up... there could be a giant business opportunity here for everybody." (Mike Ryan, [04:20]).

This leads to a broader conversation about the increasing interest of private equity firms and wealthy individuals in college sports programs. Seth Wickersham explains:

"The Saudi investment fund, they're about to do a deal with the PGA, a huge investment into that. Alongside Fenway Sports Group, you've got individuals and private equity funds that got into the NFL... and now you're seeing college." (Seth Wickersham, [08:25]).

The integration of private equity into college sports raises questions about the future landscape of collegiate athletics, ownership structures, and the potential commercialization of college programs.

Challenges and Implications of Belichick's Move

The hosts express skepticism about the feasibility and implications of Belichick's transition to college football. Stugotz comments:

"Why wouldn't all of these entities team up?... But I'm saying Michael Jordan... could team up with Belichick to build a vibrant sports thing in North Carolina." (Stugotz, [06:34]).

However, Seth Wickersham counters by highlighting potential legal and operational hurdles, including:

"Once that's approvable, but it's not a business right now." (Seth Wickersham, [09:31]).

The conversation touches upon the complexities of navigating NCAA regulations, the autonomy of college programs, and the cultural shift required for Belichick to adapt from the NFL to college football.

Seth Wickersham’s Insights on Belichick's Career and Decision

Seth Wickersham provides an in-depth analysis of Belichick's career trajectory and recent decisions. He notes that Belichick's frustration stems from:

"NFL teams being run and the hiring decisions that these owners are making." (Jessica, Seth Wickersham’s colleague, [15:47]).

Wickersham further elaborates on Belichick's disenchantment:

"Belichick could handle some of these situations like the end of the Bears-Lions game in his sleep. And yet he was having to describe... these screw up." (Jessica, [17:08]).

He underscores Belichick's need for control and autonomy, which college football could potentially offer more readily than the NFL.

Host Reactions and Debate

The hosts engage in a lively debate regarding the practicality and wisdom of Belichick’s potential move. Mike Ryan expresses admiration and confusion:

"This is the greatest of them that I've seen in my lifetime covering sports. And I grew up in a town. I saw Shula build around his excellence." (Mike Ryan, [34:38]).

Stugotz challenges the notion by questioning the attractiveness of such a move:

"What puzzles me is what Seth said, because it goes directly against everything that I've heard about the coaching ranks." (Stugotz, [35:43]).

The debate highlights differing perspectives on Belichick's legacy, his current motivations, and the future of coaching in an evolving sports landscape.

Conclusions and Future Outlook

In concluding the discussion, the hosts and Wickersham reflect on the broader implications of Belichick's potential transition. They consider the impact on the NFL, college football, and the intersection of sports and business. The conversation leaves listeners contemplating the future dynamics of sports leadership and the enduring legacy of one of football’s greatest minds.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Le Batard (03:14): “It's on Prime.”
• Seth Wickersham (08:25): “...private equity funds that got into the NFL. Just approved yesterday with the Bills and with the Dolphins.”
• Mike Ryan (04:20): “If Belichick were to team up with Jordan... there could be a giant business opportunity here for everybody.”
• Stugotz (03:19): “If you're sickened by the politics in the NFL, then maybe this isn't going to work out.”
• Jessica (15:47): “...Bill Belichick over the years, it's that when at a crossroads, he will do and take decisive action to take control of his career.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive exploration of Bill Belichick's current standing in the sports world and the potential ramifications of his strategic decisions. Through insightful dialogue and expert analysis, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the complexities at play in professional and collegiate sports management.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

You're listening to DraftKings Network.

[Stugotz]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime.

[Seth Wickersham]

There's nothing sweeter than baking cookies during the holidays.

[Stugotz]

With Prime, I get all my ingredients delivered right to my door, fast and free. No last minute store trips needed. And of course I blast my favorite holiday playlist on Amazon Music. It's the ultimate soundtrack for creating unforgettable memories from streaming to shopping.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's on Prime.

[Stugotz]

Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.

[Seth Wickersham]

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[Stugotz]

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[Mike Ryan]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show.

[Seth Wickersham]

The podcast that seems very similar to.

[Jessica]

The other Dan Le Batard podcast? I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Mike Ryan]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Jessica]

I've done it.

[Mike Ryan]

And now here's the marching man to.

[Jessica]

Nowhere, Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Mike Ryan]

Are there many things like this that I can say in the modern media age? Because I don't think that there are a lot of Seth Wickershams out there and we're in the information business. But when Ronan Farrow does something, I want to pay attention to what Ronan Farrow does. And when there's news around the Patriots, Seth Wickersham is your guy. He and Don Van Nada, Pulitzer Prize winner, have investigated like the innards of excellence of all Patriots things, including Jerry Jones, spitefully, as a high schooler, keeping Bob Kraft out of the hall of Fame just because it's funny. These guys have done the real reporting about a private organization. And I just received a notification. New Seth Wickersham piece on Belichick just dropped. And I ask you guys, Wickersham is dropping now. Music. He's dropping. There are pieces and they drop. Wickersham has arrived at pieces like this is between Wojbomb. This is before Wojbomb. And it's not a shams bomb. But when a piece has dropped, this.

[Stugotz]

Is like the new Kendrick dropping for sports nerds.

[Mike Ryan]

It is correct. Wickersham for sure. The new Wickersham just came out.

[Dan Le Batard]

And the headline of the story on ESPN says, sickened by the politics of the NFL, Belichick aims for a college restart. And what I want to know is, after this, who's going to write all the think pieces about no one wanting to work in the NFL anymore? Because when Jeff Halfley went to the NFL last year was like, no one wants to work in college football. These jobs are too hard. Who would ever want to be a college football coach? Now Bill Belichick's like, me, Bill, if that.

[Stugotz]

If that's the spin, then maybe this isn't going to work out. If you were sickened by the politics in the NFL.

[Seth Wickersham]

Hold on.

[Stugotz]

I thought you knew what you were getting yourself into and kind of reveling in it. This is. No, no, no, no, no. This is dirtier than you can even imagine. If that's the case, we're going to.

[Mike Ryan]

Get Wickersham on here in a second to talk about this, but I really do think that Mike just brought up something fascinating that hasn't turned a light on for me as a business opportunity since we were talking in 2009 and being like, why wouldn't LeBron and Wade and Bosh get together and just have a lot of fun playing basketball if they're all free agents at the same time? It seems like that would be fun as a business opportunity. Michael Jordan, end of his career, tried with the last dance to, you know, remind you who he was. A disaster. As an owner to be able to team in basketball. In basketball? No, as an owner.

[Stugotz]

Very successful, solid NASCAR owner. Trying to actually change this board.

[Seth Wickersham]

Solid Hornets owner return.

[Mike Ryan]

No.

[Stugotz]

What are you talking in terms of on court success.

[Mike Ryan]

Terrible success. Yes. Made money. Good for business. But if Belichick were to team up with Jordan on the restoration of the North Carolina program, because Belichick could Nike it up, because Belichick. I mean, how hard is it for two guys of that kind of excellence, two people in that sphere to team up on something to make North Carolina matter when Jordan's got the ending. Jordan's ending on sports legacy was never about. Supposed to be about just money. It was supposed to have some winning in it.

[Stugotz]

I don't know what I'm doing where I think Bill Belichick's odds of getting Jordan more engaged on the football program are higher than, you know, Larry Fedora's. But I just kind of believe that because he can talk to him from like a goat to goat level that no one has, at least in the football program. But Roy Williams has been able to talk to Michael Jordan that way. There is a level of frustration that he does plenty, but not, not enough can he do more. I gotta believe in my heart of hearts that Michael Jordan's going to be a little bit more engaged.

[Seth Wickersham]

And that helps you think Jordan will have the epiphany. Oh God, it's Bella. The best ever. Now I'm going to give.

[Stugotz]

I kind of believe that without knowing either of them. I kind of believe it.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't actually. I think both of you are thinking of it too small. Jordan Giant of giants. Nike Giant of Giants. When Phil Knight wanted into college football, what he did is he was benefactor to Oregon football. And he made it what it was. In the new evolution of where Michael Jordan wants to compete for dollars or in sports. Being the owner of the North Carolina program, however it is, you can consort with your Nike people and Belichick to build a giant vibrant nuclear sports thing in North Carolina. Like there's a giant business opportunity here for everybody.

[Stugotz]

Well, now you're talking about something different, which is former sports owners. And look, even Saudi public fund have kind of poked around. Can we have equity and buy your brand, your college basketball program, your college football program. David knows a little bit more about this certainly than I do. But it seems as though this is all heading in that direction.

[Mike Ryan]

David, why?

[Stugotz]

Jordan is looking at it like I get equity in this.

[Mike Ryan]

David, why wouldn't all of these entities team up? Nike, Michael Jordan, Bill Belichick to get North Carolina to the top.

[Stugotz]

Conflicted out. They can only bide Oregon, apparently.

[Mike Ryan]

No, but I'm saying Michael Jordan, look, he's got a whole different arm of Nike, Michael Jordan allegiance. Could Michael Jordan not. Let me ask you this. I give you right now access to Michael Jordan and I tell you Michael Jordan wants to be a successful sports owner. Wants to still compete, wants to make money in racing and a lot of other places. And he would like to invest in North Carolina football in a way that makes him feel like a part owner of North Carolina football. How do you as an agent make all of that happen? Because I think there's a giant business opportunity here for Michael Jordan to be ahead of where college football is headed instead of behind it.

[Seth Wickersham]

And the problem that you're dismissing is that when he takes over when he gets into nascar, he gets into a lawsuit because he's not making the money that he wanted to make. And the France family is. So he's willing to file an antitrust suit because of the business, not because he doesn't feel he's in a position to win a race. He's not in a position to monetize what he has. Unc. There's a ton of money being poured into it. That doesn't mean it's profitable. As a matter of fact, I would argue that the loss position they have as an entity is larger now because they're.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, but if anyone. If anyone knows the benefits of not being profitable and then still making tons of money, it's David Sampson.

[Seth Wickersham]

Hell, yeah.

[Stugotz]

In the end. So let's talk about the private equity aspect, because I happen to know conferences as a whole have been talking about private equity, but this isn't yet allowed. Yet all these conversations are happening, and all these billionaires are poking around these individual programs, wondering if they can get a piece. How does this go forward? Why are these talks even allowed right now?

[Seth Wickersham]

Oh, it's coming because these teams and conferences do need money. And so take a look what's happening. The Saudi investment fund, they're about to do a deal with the pga, a huge investment into that. Alongside Fenway Sports Group, you've got individuals and private equity funds that got into the NFL. Just approved yesterday with the Bills and with the Dolphins. Just yesterday. And now you're seeing college. They're in the market, but they don't have a value yet. Pro teams have the value. They have not been able to separate out college programs because they're funding all the.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't feel like you've answered my question. I make you right now Michael Jordan's agent, and I tell you that the task is to make Michael Jordan the owner of the North Carolina football program. Some form of it. Whatever's allowed. Now, how do you go about doing.

[Seth Wickersham]

I'll give you the pathway. Except he's had the pathway before. Belichick. The pathway is you start as an investor, you start to have operational control. You start to be in charge of who will be the decision makers. And then you make an investment where then eventually it leads to ownership. Once that's approvable. But it's not a business right now.

[Mike Ryan]

Not right now, not yet. But it's about to be. I want a new insider around here. Mike Ryan's. I happen to know. I happen to know the way it's delivered has just enough arrogance in it. And is also. He's telling you you've got to trust me on my credibility. And if I'm telling you I happen to know something, this. I'm presenting you with a fact that it's a reported informational fact.

[Jessica]

He's also telling whoever he's talking to.

[Stugotz]

That you don't know.

[Mike Ryan]

Like I happen to know is basically he's saying whoever I'm talking to, you.

[Jessica]

Don'T know what you're talking about.

[Mike Ryan]

No, you may know what you're talking about, but you don't know the way I know where I happen to know it in a way that makes me right. And you may also be right. But you might be wrong.

[Stugotz]

I'm right.

[Mike Ryan]

You might be right on whatever you think, but you're also occasionally wrong. But I happen to know has a weight to it that you were arrogant in what was the information you were giving us again, that came behind. I happened to know conferences. It had in it. I happen to know it had known.

[Stugotz]

It for a very well known fact.

[Mike Ryan]

No, but here's what it had.

[Stugotz]

I sat on that one for months, Roy.

[Mike Ryan]

Right. Tell me. Tell me if I'm right here. Mike Ryan's I happen to know was delivered with sort of the whiff, the scent of. I've talked to a conference commissioner here and there in the shadows. It had a. It had a. It had a whiff of. I talk to people in corners more than you do. Or you would also happen to know.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, I can smell it from the bedroom.

[Mike Ryan]

It had.

[Stugotz]

He was in the kitchen cooking that up.

[Mike Ryan]

Jessica, what else did you smell in there? I smelled. I smelled. I smelled some. Some cocktails and talking about nil money with, um, boosters.

[Stugotz]

Wet cave. Nosferatu by heretic. No, but like a pleasant wet cave. Look at lingers. I don't want to smell like cheese.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's wearing a Tom Brady shirt. It's very off putting. By the way, I'm reading Seth Wicker's sham story right now. That was hard to say. Very good. I billed. He definitely wanted to coach in the NFL, Dan, but guess what? The Bears don't want him.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, don't ruin all of Seth Wickersham's reporting.

[Stugotz]

Can I. Can I reveal something? I was believing Taylor wholeheartedly last week, and then I was reaching out to some NFL sources. I'm like, guys, I'm pretty plugged into North Carolina if you want this Bill Belichick thing to happen. I don't think this is a leverage play. I think it's pretty serious and Then he went to North Carolina.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah. You and Taylor were talking in the shadows. You had it a week ago, but didn't tell anybody. It's the way that Meadowlark does. Breaking news talks about it. Yeah. The mental arc media way.

[Stugotz]

The eating area cigars reported it four hours before everybody else.

[Mike Ryan]

What a great slogan. We keep big news to ourselves.

[Stugotz]

But I do happen to know conferences are talking.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, okay, Enough with your happening.

[Stugotz]

And they poked around individual programs. They poke around every single program. This is not a unique thing. Every. Everyone's got a private equity firm on line one ready for that moment.

[Mike Ryan]

Taylor anstcotted four hours before espn. Taylor had it a week ago. He was cutting off sweatshirt sleeves. Taylor knew. Look, Taylor knew before Belichick's agent reached out to him. Like, Taylor knew and he was in on it, but we just didn't tell anybody. So Seth Wickersham. Seth Wickersham has gotten to places because he gets news and he shares it with us and shares. He doesn't. He doesn't keep it to himself. And I was informed that a new Seth Wickersham piece on Belichick just dropped. And I'm wondering, Wickersham, have you gotten used to your pieces now, just dropping? I don't know who else in sports media has the distinction? There are Woj bombs, there are Shams bombs. What are Schefter's things called Pieces don't drop in our business anymore.

[Jessica]

I think maybe I should go the Taylor route. I don't know.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't think that you.

[Stugotz]

You want to hide under my desk, and I can just prop you up every time you got a scoop stick.

[Jessica]

I love that.

[Mike Ryan]

Jessica, what have you read that's interesting in the pieces you're trying to catch up? Because he is our foremost Patriots reporting authority.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes. Seth, hello. Nice to see you again.

[Jessica]

Hey.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's been a minute. Seems like this was something that came about after Belichick was around a lot of college programs with his son this past year and maybe initially wanted to be back in the NFL, but doesn't seem like it's a real option. So at what point did he finally sort of, like, start making the choice in his head, like, hey, I could actually be a college football head coach? Like, what was the timeline of that?

[Jessica]

Yeah, it came about about midway through the season, and it's been interesting. So every week, Belichick and a lot of his former assistants in New England, all of whom are, you know, out of the coaching world right now, would meet on Zoom and they would go through, you know, every game and every team in the NFL, you know, schematically salary wise, injury wise, whatever trends they could spot. And it was all with the design of what jobs might be available, what jobs might be interested in Bill, and would Bill find them appealing. It's been kind of a rough 2024 for Bill. I mean, he was fired in New England. The Dynasty series on Apple can have roundly dismissed his contributions to the Patriots greatness. He wasn't able to get any of the jobs that were available in January and only got one interview. And I think that as he sort of surveyed the landscape and looked at the possible situations that he might be a candidate for and what he would be walking into, college began to look more attractive where he would have more space and more autonomy to run a program his way. And I think if we've learned anything about Bill Belichick over the years, it's that when at a crossroads, he will do and take decisive action to take control of his career. And I think that's what he did here.

[Mike Ryan]

Wickersham, give us the best info in your piece. You get the reported stuff that no one else gets. What do you have that is the most interesting around this stuff that other people don't have? Jessica's busy reading it. I haven't, it just dropped. I haven't been able to get to it. So just give me the good stuff.

[Jessica]

Well, I mean, there's people familiar with his thinking who think this is a big F you to the NFL and that he was, he had grown disenchanted and disgusted was a word that I had been told with the way that NFL teams are being run and the hiring decisions that, you know, these owners are making. I mean, this is an eight time super bowl champion who, it was unclear whether he was going to get a job this past, you know, this next coming off season. And yes, he's got strikes against him. His age, you know, his record without Tom Brady, the way the league is kind of generally trending. But you can't take his, his stature and his accomplishments away from him. And look, he would go on TV and go on his podcast and talk about all of these really basic screw ups that were happening in the NFL each week. These people who had jobs that he didn't have mostly in the game management and clock management situations, the situational football that he all but pioneered and mastered. And you know, he's, he can handle some of these situations like the end of the Bears Lions game in his sleep. And yet he was having to describe for the masses. Exactly. In excruciating detail. All of these screw ups. And I think that there was just something about the NFL that he had grown disenchanted with over the past year.

[Mike Ryan]

Hold on.

[Jessica]

That's really what made college more appealing.

[Mike Ryan]

Seth, you're saying disenchanted, but you're also articulating some form of. No one will hire me. Do you know who I am? This disgusts me. Like, explain to me wherever ego resides, in the pride of winning the game of Warriors, Bill Belichick at 70, knowing what he knows about what it takes to win, looking at the NFL, I have to interview how many times with Atlanta. You disgust me. Like, explain to me the pride hit that this has been.

[Jessica]

Yeah, it's. I think it has been. And I think that imagine, you know, it's like he has always coached and worked as if his self worth is tied to the result in a coin flip of a game. And when he would lose games in New England and in Cleveland, I mean, it would take on an atmospheric type of level. I mean, it's like those losses would take on a life of their own. Imagine the quiet seething that someone with his stature and his accomplishments went through in January, having been shown the door by Robert Kraft after he helped make Robert Kraft billions of dollars and changed his life and legacy. Got only one team was willing to interview him and he didn't finish in the top three candidates. He had to listen to teams around the league almost kind of celebrate the fact that he wasn't in the league and that he was, quote, voted off the island, as Don Van Nadenai and Jeremy Fowler reported in. And I think that there is, even though I think that he always thought he was, you know, he preferred to maybe return to the NFL or at least plan to. As they went through these weekly zooms in the middle of the season, things started to change a little bit. And all of a sudden he was starting to analyze college programs a little bit alongside the NFL ones. That's when I think it became something that he was truly considering.

[Dan Le Batard]

Seth, it's been said before that Bill is a young 72, whereas Mack is an old 73. Does Bill signing this deal with UNC all but ensure he will never coach again in the NFL given his age?

[Jessica]

Yeah, and I mean, you know, Van Ad and I and Fowler in April had someone who's very knowledgeable with the way the NFL works convinced that he was done coaching in the NFL. And you know, even though that can sound kind of shocking, and it was certainly shocking to Me, you know, you just, you wouldn't know. And teams don't back channel communication as much as they used to. Remember, Brian Florey still has his discrimination lawsuit now, you know, two years now. And so, you know, teams weren't just saying to Bill Belichick, hold tight, we're going to hire you. It just, it doesn't work like that anymore. And I think that like, you know, he was facing the prospect that he might not get in any of these jobs, you never know. And he might not want the ones that he might get. Whereas, like, returning to a place like North Carolina, where he was as a boy when his dad was coach and kind of feeling that new challenge of the college game seemed really energizing to him.

[Stugotz]

Seth, is this sad? Because I've seen people with a take saying this is pretty sad for the greatest of all time to be essentially out of options and disgusted with the entire pro ranks. And he's just taking his ball and Matt Patricia and he's going to Chapel Hill.

[Jessica]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a part of that just always going to seem weird. And, you know, we've just grown up and been used to him patrolling an NFL sideline for so long. And I think that, you know, he ran the New England Patriots with, you know, trying to minimize the emotion in every decision making. And he got into some big contract battles with players over the years, release certain players, you know, created a big uproar at times, could seem cold and calculating in how he handled things. And I think that he did try to improve that part of it as he went on as a coach. But, you know, the pro football is just a tough game and very few people get to end it on their own terms. And I think that having a chance in college where he has the space to operate his way and a chance to win or lose games on his terms, which is all he's ever asked for, you know, looks more appealing right now. There's a lot of college coaches who are trying to get to the NFL, but I think there are a lot of people in the NFL who consider a lot of college jobs better than NFL jobs. The question is whether North Carolina is one of them and what he'll be able to do with that program.

[Mike Ryan]

I think I've known Wickersham for a long time. I am proud of him. I'm proud to tell you he's got a new book coming out in September called American A Biography of the Quarterback. It's available for preorder now and I respect that. While he was talking. Mike Ryan was signed, somehow deeply apologetic because he thought he put Wickersham, an old timey journalist, in a bad spot by asking him through his objectivity, isn't this sad? And then Seth didn't say it was sad. He did not. He would not say it was sad. So let me ask another question to you a different way. Given the reporting you've done around football and how hard it was to actually accomplish what Belichick accomplished, how disrespectful, how has the last year been to Bill Belichick for you, an objective journalist?

[Jessica]

I think it's been massively, I mean again, firing, interviewing with one team out of seven openings not getting that job, everyone kind of dancing on the result of that and almost bragging about the fact that he wasn't in anyone's top three. The 10 part Dynasty documentary, which was owned in by craft. And really, you know, a lot of Patriots players, you were vocal about how they felt like that it minimized his contributions. And then, you know, looking at the landscape and thinking like, you know, where do I fit into this? And you know, I, I think there's an element of it that, that is disrespectful because look at his accomplishments and the fact that he's going on TV every week and having to explain basic decisions that he's mastered since 2001 that are happening on NFL sidelines, it doesn't reflect great on the NFL, I think in the owners that, you know, a coach with eight rings can't get a job. That said, you know, who knows how this, this January would have played out. But I think that at the end of the day he needed to take control of his career in the way that he saw fit and he saw this as the best opportunity rather than waiting and playing the odds.

[Seth Wickersham]

But he's going to North Carolina. It's not as though that he took over one of the schools that are ready like in Alabama. So I think this just furthers the narrative that maybe it wasn't him or maybe there's something else about the credit or the disrespect that he feels it is.

[Mike Ryan]

He must be Seth, he must be seething. He must be seething at how forgetful we are. I know we're dismissive of expertise, but.

[Stugotz]

But like every did win a Super bowl five years ago.

[Mike Ryan]

I mean, just know all of it. It's not just won a Super bowl five years ago, it's all of it. It was, was ahead of the game on everybody for 20 years.

[Jessica]

Absolutely. And I think that, like, the media attention, I think, and the way that the narrative has kind of shifted on him. Right. As if the Patriots were all Tom Brady. And look, there's a. There's a lot of, you know, great argument to be made about things. And obviously, he was the one who opened the door for Tom Brady to leave, and Brady did, and he went on and won a Super bo. But, you know, again, I mean, these are things that, like, you know, he's. He's drafted multiple hall of Famers. Someone like Ryan Poles can't necessarily say that. Terry Fontenot can't say that. And I think that, like, again, as he surveyed the landscape, he knew that some of these teams, let's just say that the New York Giants wanted to hire him. He knew that that team had some major pieces that it needed to fill and would take a little bit of time to do that. And the New York press was going to be on him, and it would be the third year that he. In a row that he's been coaching. Obviously he's been out this year, but, you know, 22, 23 and then 25, that there would be a narrative that he had lost his fastball. And I, you know, I think there was a part of him that just didn't feel like dealing with it.

[Mike Ryan]

Seth, last question. And I don't know if it's even fair, but I'm just curious. A lot of people talking about he can't connect with today's player. I don't know where he connected with Randy Moss, but he did. And I don't know whether a grandpa can connect with today's player, but I know nobody knew Ricky Williams. And Ricky Williams speaks of Nick Saban in a way that floors me in terms of where grandfathers can reach kids. So when Bill Belichick gets the criticism of, there's no way he can connect here. You say what to that?

[Jessica]

He's always been driven by a very intellectual approach. I mean, he can be emotional around the team when he feels like he needs it. But he has always. His. His leadership has always been based on the fact that he puts players in the best position to win games for the team to do well. And in turn, that helps the players later on in their career get better contracts, wherever it might be, whether it was in New England or someone else. I think that, you know, personally, players respect knowledge, and when you lose them on that, on that, you know, like, how was. How is Eber Fluss ever going to go back to the Bears and try to lead that team after the debacle that we all saw at the end of the game against the Lions. I mean, players respect knowledge. And even if he delivered it in, you know, a cold hearted way at times, or unemotional or was, you know, pushed these guys to the brink, you know, I think they all understood what he was trying to do. And I think that he will tailor his system to work with 17 and 18, 19 year old kids the way that he did. He tailored it to fit his rosters in New England.

[Mike Ryan]

That would have been a perfect time for Taylor. His system Taylor.

[Stugotz]

But evidently he's talking to Fein bomb for fine Bomb.

[Mike Ryan]

Bathroom break. Wickersham. Thank you for being on with us. We appreciate it. Chris Cody. I didn't hear the last part of his answer because you were saying something in my ear. What did you say to me? Tell the audience so they can understand. Understand why I was laughing instead of listening to Wickersham. I think Seth looks like Joe Burrow's older brother. It's a good look.

[Jessica]

That's a compliment.

[Mike Ryan]

I need.

[Jessica]

I need highlights. Huh?

[Mike Ryan]

I mean you, you looked like his older brother.

[Seth Wickersham]

He didn't say thank you.

[Mike Ryan]

He didn't say thank you. Should. I mean, that's a compliment.

[Stugotz]

Your teeth are very white. Okay, that's another observation.

[Mike Ryan]

All right. And your, your writing is also very nice.

[Stugotz]

I find you handsome.

[Mike Ryan]

All right. Good seeing you.

[Jessica]

Thank you guys. Good seeing you guys.

[Mike Ryan]

Good. I'm glad we didn't make that awkward. Yeah, not at all.

[Dan Le Batard]

Dan. He's a journalist. He's not going to tell you if he thinks Joe Burrows attractive. Because that would be him editorializing. Geez, I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you for explaining it to me.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're welcome.

[Seth Wickersham]

Aren't you a journalist?

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugotz]

Void word prohibited.

[Dan Le Batard]

See draftkings.com cheez it for full details.

[Stugotz]

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[David Sampson]

The holiday home stretch is here, and when you're crossing names off your holiday list, you can't forget about your pets. Dopey and Izzy would never forgive me if I did. And Chewy is the only name I need to know for everything to keep my pet happy and health. That's why Chewy is perfect. You just go home, relax, kick your feet off, and shop online for your pet. And with the holiday shopping season winding down, Chewy is giving us a gift. Huge savings. Up to 40 or even 60% off. Flash deals, BOGOs, and so much more. Not just for dogs and cats, birds, fish, reptiles and more. Chewy's auto ship feature is the real stress reducing hero. I've set up recurring shipments for all the essentials we use and they show up to my door just one to two days later. I'm never running out and can change or cancel my auto ship order at any time. The other day I was going feed my doggies. Dopey and Izzy, as I mentioned earlier, you know them. And I said, you know what? I'm running low. Let me check something. Boom, right there. I had an auto ship notification in my email saying the dog food was coming tomorrow.

[Stugotz]

Chew.

[David Sampson]

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[Stugotz]

It's a three. The crowd goes into a delusion. Winning in the playoffs, not an illusion, it's a heat check. He's on fire. Stugots Karrios. Jalen Bronson comes up clutch. That's why we won. New York knows you are the best. Not the joke no more.

[David Sampson]

This is the Don Levatar show with the stugats.

[Mike Ryan]

There are a number of things that I have learned from Jessica. Just yesterday, I learned from Jessica. It was an honest exchange. I had no fathoming idea that we were supposed to have been fed for the last 20 years as an entertainment group of people that were working five straight hours a day. Jessica explained to me because there was some complaining about the bacon sandwiches. And you come on here and you say, the budget's too low. And I was proud of the fact that we served breakfast and lunch. And Jessica is correct when she says, well, no, that's. That's what standard. And I'm like, it hasn't been our standard, like for 20 years. Nobody fed us.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, if you've ever been on a film or television set before, they have craft services and generally people that work long shifts, they get, they get fed.

[Seth Wickersham]

Of course, our shifts aren't all that long, just in terms of hours.

[Mike Ryan]

They're like coal mining.

[Dan Le Batard]

They're pretty long.

[Mike Ryan]

When we were at ESPN, I would.

[Stugotz]

Just not eat till like 3pm every day. I make more decisions than a fighter pilot.

[Mike Ryan]

The reason I am elevated on Belichick, and I know, I hear myself and forgive me, because it feels, it feels shrill even in my head. And so after 90 minutes of this, it's just pretty rare, right, David, when you do something for 20 years, it's pretty rare for a story to make an appearance that sort of jostles all of the stimulants. Because you're confused at the macro on this, which is everyone's been telling me for a quarter century that the great leaders know how to win. And they know how to do it better than the other great leaders who are trying. This is the greatest of them that I've seen in my lifetime covering sports. And I grew up in a town. I saw Shula build around his excellence. Okay, this coach has been better than all of them. The other previous greatest that you would put in this conversation, Saban, learned from him. This being available to me is emblematic of where it is and how quickly in America these days and throughout the world, we devalue and dismiss expertise. Because you guys have been telling me this guy is better than everybody forever, and now he's available and he's got to go slum for a job he's got to create because everyone in the NFL says, eh, the game has passed him by and he knows what some of those knobs are like. He knows those cavemen on the sideline don't even know what clock management is.

[Stugotz]

I think, look, people want to have the debate whose success? Who's more responsible for the success. You're talking about this like, like it's a hung jury. We know definitively he's the greatest NFL coach of all time. Even if this ends up being a disaster, he is going to be the first name that comes up in these debates because no one's going to hold this against him. As a 73 year old, I think that he walks into the sport with plenty of cachet. Walks into the sport with an advantage over most of the coaches in there. What puzzles me is what Seth said, because it goes directly against everything that I've heard about the coaching ranks. Almost everyone in college is trying to get the hell out of there. It's a nightmare right now. If you try to pursue an NFL coach to join your college program, that's not happening. He's the only person that's like, I'm done with this. I'm going there. And he's trying to sell it as like, no, no, no, this is the wave of the future. This is way better. You have more control. That is not the room that he, that everyone is reading right now. It just lines up in direct opposition.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know. I don't know if you could say that blanketly about every coach in college football or every coach in the NFL. It seems like the backup plan of Belichick. Belichick didn't. Bill Belichick didn't say yes. Was Tommy Reese, who is also in the NFL right now. Obviously it'd be a big leap to take a head coaching job in college. And he Comes from college as an oc. But I think that college head coaching jobs are still pretty attractive. You get paid a lot of money to coach football in college. And maybe some of the variable now is actually a little bit easier with revenue sharing if you're a head coach. And it becomes even more attractive in the next few years.

[Stugotz]

We know the most recent national champion came from there, was trying to get back for several years, needed the success to finally go over there. Ryan Day has been trying to get to the NFL since he got that job, I would say. And I know this. The vast majority happened.

[Mike Ryan]

And I know this is a totally different.

[Stugotz]

Wait a minute.

[Mike Ryan]

And I know this is a different.

[Stugotz]

I happen to know this for real. For real fr. Fr like this is a tough job right now. It's a really tough job. It's fully demanding. And he's right to walk into the door with a huge support system. Everyone gets their job delegated to them and he can just be across everything. That's the smart thing because it appears as though he's walking into the room with a bigger personnel team than most would.

[Seth Wickersham]

It's a dream because he gets five years at 72. And there's no downside to legacy.

[Mike Ryan]

The part though that I wanted to place in front of you guys because I do find this part, like it's complicated. When you say that people are arriving at whatever the Wild west is of, what do you mean the left tackle's got a Maybach. How are we doing this legally? What's legal? What's not legal? What are we doing? Okay, the floodgates have opened on the business of this. The part that I can't get my head around and I do feel like is a fair question if you ask it of even his expertise is does he understand how maddening it might be that the 18 year old now actually has power and what that infection is going to look like when the 18 year old every year can leave and be in the portal and they don't actually have to respect Bill Belichick's power, discipline, leadership or whatever he's trying to form because the walls have caved in. I've said before I would not want one of those jobs, like even if I had the expertise. And you told me now I've got to live by the whims of 18 year olds who are fighting over money like, no thank you.

[Seth Wickersham]

We've been living with a salary cap when the rules of a salary cap.

[Mike Ryan]

But wait a minute, hold on a second. Let's talk about this for real. Okay. This is also a lot of times relationships that you're having with the inner cities and families in the inner cities and all of the complications.

[Stugotz]

We did see Nick Saban do the Cupid shuffle in a living room.

[Jessica]

He's got swag, though. That's the thing.

[Stugotz]

I don't know if Belichick has the Saban swag.

[Jessica]

He might have taught him everything he.

[Mike Ryan]

Knows, but he can't do the Cupid's Shuffle. That's what I'm trying to say. You gotta be left to.

[Stugotz]

He's gonna get the jumpman sweatsuit.

[Mike Ryan]

You have to be broadcaster Belichick to pull this off. You can't go back to mumbling over cheap box.

[Stugotz]

You gotta have some.

[Dan Le Batard]

Belichick has no Riz.

[Stugotz]

It's got Riz for days.

[Seth Wickersham]

You can mumble with 20 million in your pocket.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm talking about getting recruits, though.

[Stugotz]

I think it's gonna happen. I will find out pretty quickly. Like he. He joins this program as the portal opens up and as someone that helps with a program that is in the talent acquisition game that, that minds that portal. I am more nervous today than I was when Mack Brown was there.

[Mike Ryan]

Is that a look at me, Louie, or is that a name drop cannon? I said I happen to know the. Are you guys not with me on this? On the idea of. I know, okay, yes, you want a high paying job, but I would not want the job that comes with this kind of renegade. The rules are all changing right now, brother.

[Stugotz]

He started a media company. Yes, you did.

[Mike Ryan]

I didn't know it was going to be this. And if I had known, I wouldn't have. What?

[Seth Wickersham]

Well, that's a morale booster.

[Mike Ryan]

Like. No, I'm just saying. I didn't think so.

[Stugotz]

No more breakfast.

[Mike Ryan]

I didn't think it was going to be hard. I thought it was going to be easy. I don't think Belichick thinks this is going to be easy. But I.

[Stugotz]

And the Rhett Lashley thing was a bar. I mean, you look at the lay of the land of the coaches that he's going out there and you ask anybody who's a better coach, I mean, they're going to be jokes compared to him. Dabo is the only guy that can be like, what's up, pal? And he's even become a joke.

[Seth Wickersham]

No, no, but Dabo thinks it's going to be easy.

[Mike Ryan]

Dabo, comparatively is a joke in the.

[Stugotz]

Way he's won two nannies.

[Mike Ryan]

I know, but so did Les Miles. No, these people look compare.

[Dan Le Batard]

You can't dabble's been to the playoff how many times? Seven times. You can disagree with how he's run the program the last few years, but he's a very successful. He's one of the only two active head coaches that's won a national championship.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm not arguing that he's not successful. I'm not arguing that he hasn't done one of the hardest things.

[Seth Wickersham]

Said he was a joke.

[Stugotz]

Wait. In the eyes of the Lord, which.

[Mike Ryan]

Is he made Clemson stop feeling like perpetual punchline, always going to lose Clemson. But when you look at Dabo Swinney's history and how it is that he got that job, what you are telling me, if you think Dabo Swinney is Bill Belichick, is that the guy who just happens into an interim job and then finds his way to the success ladder in making Clemson better, is Bill Belichick. And there's no one listening to this who would say that if Davil Sweeney is coaching against Bill Belichick, that it's not Belichick with whatever the substantive advantage.

[Stugotz]

Thankfully no one said that. We made it up.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's not a joke. That's all I'm saying.

[Stugotz]

He's the only person that has any cachet. It could be like, like, hey guy, like look at us win.

[Seth Wickersham]

He's more successful than Belichick.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm. I'm saying that everyone comparatively that he will be coaching against is a joke.

[Dan Le Batard]

Everyone, everyone is more successful at being a college coach than he is.

[Seth Wickersham]

Everyone.

[Dan Le Batard]

So how about that?

[Seth Wickersham]

They all have more victims.

[Dan Le Batard]

Talk to me when you beat TCU week one, Charlotte, week two, rich man, that's gotta be a dub. Hopefully you're three and oh, at that point, 2026, Mike. Notre Dame and Miami both play UNC. That'll year two of Bill Belichick who.

[Stugotz]

Oh, no thank you. No, thank you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, no thank you.

[Seth Wickersham]

You happen to know.

[Stugotz]

I happen to know that I will be shitting bricks that day.

[Mike Ryan]

I wouldn't want that job, man. I would not want the responsibility of a 17 year old can decide whether I'm happy that day or not.

[Stugotz]

Howdy folks. It's Mike and guess what? It's Miller time. The holiday season brings around lots of joy and also lots of family. Lots of family gatherings at your home. You're inviting people in there and you want to make sure they're happy. Why don't you make their time at your place a Miller time. Pass around that beautiful white can of triple hops brewed Miller Lite and watch the smiles adorn those faces. Make Miller Light the official drink, the official beverage of your holiday get together. You know why? Because it is a perfect beer for the holiday season. You'll take a sip, you'll look around and you'll think immediately, yeah, I made the right call. It's got tastes that you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks. Just great beer. For people who like beer making memories at year end gatherings. Tastes like Miller time. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.

[Jessica]

With prime, you get fast delivery on everything for the holidays from cookies for Santa to holiday vacay, self tanner to sequin dresses for a little holiday glamour to some cozy socks for grandma. Fast delivery. It's on Prime.