The Big Suey: The 10-Foot Pole

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz – The Big Suey: The 10-Foot Pole

Date: February 25, 2026
Hosts and Panelists: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Greg Cody, Tony, Jonathan Zaslow, Dave Feineman
Location: The Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Episode Overview

This episode of "The Big Suey" centers around the show’s literal and figurative use of the 10-foot pole—diving into topics that most people wouldn’t “touch with a 10-foot pole.” With the physical pole present in the studio, the crew examines sports debates, food takes, and the human versus technology dynamic in officiating, all while wielding their signature blend of humor, bickering, and pop culture reference.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The 10-Foot Pole: Introducing the Gimmick

• Premise: The crew uses an actual 10-foot pole as a visual metaphor, prompting discussion of topics that are either hot takes or slightly taboo.
• Dan Le Batard: “I'm glad it's time to start holding people's feet to the fire here around this show… But you know what? We go the extra mile. It's not a figurative 10 foot pole. We have a literal 10 foot pole. What will you touch with it or refuse to touch?” [01:46]

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1. Luka Doncic & the Lakers: Will He Win a Ring?

• Prompt: Will Luka Doncic finish his Lakers tenure without a championship?
• Amin's Take (through Dave): “I'm stabbing it with the ten foot pole... winning championships is hard… Luka Doncic has not historically been a durable guy… The Western Conference is cutthroat… How long is his Laker career even going to be? He might be gone in a couple of years.” [03:13–04:16]
• Dan: “So Amin would touch that with a ten foot pole. So as a result, he's got the pole.” [04:24]

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2. The Great Breakfast Meat Debate

Prompt: If you could only consume the flesh of one animal for life, is pork/swine the right choice?

• Dan (pro-ham): “If you can only consume the flesh of one beast to the exclusion of all others for the rest of your life, the correct beast to choose is swine. Will you touch that with a ten foot pole?” [05:43]

• Panel Reaction:

  • Zaslow: “It is the cow… The cow has so many different things. I can cook steaks, I can get ribs, I can do burgers, I can do whatever.” [06:25–06:28]
  • Others Debate: Bacon, pork ribs, hamburgers, beef ribs, and even religious and personal backgrounds emerge (including Stugotz’s first time eating ham at age 16 due to a Jewish upbringing) [08:08].
  • Dave: “Every time I've accidentally had pork. Disgusting, really... But you give me some beef bacon. Oh, my God. Beef bacon is amazing.” [09:31–10:24]
  • Dan (on bacon marketing): “Taste buds were duped. Is that your claim? Big, big and big pork.” [11:02]

• Notable Moment:

  • Stugotz: “I did not try ham. I never tasted ham for the first time until I was 16 years old.” [08:08]
  • Dave: “You were programmed by the white pork sellers of America. Yes, the other white meat. Look at you.” [11:07]

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3. Patrick Mahomes – Has He Won His Last Lombardi?

Prompt: Patrick Mahomes is finished winning Super Bowls. Will you touch that with a ten foot pole?

• Zaslow: “I am touching this with a ten foot pole… He’s already won three… It’s plausible, at least if not likely, that Patrick Mahomes has won his last Lombardi.” [17:48–18:48]
• Dan: “If you win three in a row, there’s at least a case to be made. And then it would be the MJ…” [18:27]
• Panel Discussion: The difficulty of sustained greatness, comparisons to Troy Aikman and Terry Bradshaw, and how era and stats shape legacies. [18:59–22:34]
• Dan (on Bradshaw): “It is going to be the most important thing of the season and who wins it. And in a. And in a league called the quarterback league… whether or not you win those games is everything. And so Terry Bradshaw won four of them.” [21:41–22:34]

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4. Baseball’s Automated Ball-Strike Challenge System (ABS)

• Context: MLB is introducing ABS challenges. Panel wrestles with the merits and flaws of challenging umpire calls.
• Greg Cody: Explains: “I believe it starts with two [challenges]. And so long as you get it right, it like, stays at 2…” [25:05]
• Stugotz: “So anyway, yesterday there was a game and poor umpire… He’s on trial. I was wrong for everyone to see... five consecutive challenges. The challenge was successful and he had to announce that he was wrong. I’ll tell you, I don’t know how this is going to be a positive thing.” [27:06–27:30]
• Tony: “Who would want to be an umpire when you’re second guess routinely?” [27:30]
• Dan: Defends using technology: “I got great news. We have their replacement. It’s called the video cameras.” [27:38]
• Tony (opposed): “I like the human error involved in officiating. I think we should live with the human error... Quit waffling in between with the challenge.” [27:44–28:05]
• Dan: “It is the dumbest thing in all of sports that the last couple of seasons, I'm at my house on my couch, and I see that it's a ball or a strike, and this umpire in the game that matters is just getting it wrong.” [28:45–28:53]

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5. Human vs. Tech in Officiating

• Panel divides on:
  • Whether technology should fully replace human officiating,
  • If challenge systems create “purgatory,” and
  • The effects on the vibe of the game and job security for umpires.
• Greg Cody: “If they're going to challenge... I could tell. I know what. It's a ball and a strike.” [26:27]
• Dan: “We have the technology available... Why are we pretending that that doesn't exist?... If you don't think that was the right call, then challenge it, player. And the reason Chris Sale doesn't want to challenge it is because he's being political in the here and now.” [35:07–35:58]
• Tony: “Nothing slows sports more than a challenge… You put up with the occasional human error instead of a pitch being a quarter of an inch outside and having a replay or an ABS system to tell us whether it was a ball or a strike.” [36:54–37:20]

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6. Analytics, Officiating, and Vibes

• Dan: “Vibes over stats is such a great place to be. Who wants lasers and technology? I want vibes. That’s why we’re here, Dave. Cuz we want the vibes of sports. No one wants to do math on a calculator. We want to see drama play out.” [36:37]
• Dan (on how quick replay could work): “When they show the replay. Do you not know, Greg Cody? I know immediately. I see it in real time very often. Why? Because I'm watching on hdtv...” [37:44]

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7. NBA Parallels: Challenges and Player/Coach Strategy

• Dave: “One of the most annoying things, if you're watching NBA basketball right now, ball goes out of bounds, and players instantly go… Twirling their finger… There's a twirl in their finger... This is the solution. The solution is to do what baseball did, which is, you know what? It's like a timeout. Any player can call it. And you know what? Doesn't matter if you don't have one. No take backs, no take backs. We'll do it. And if you don't have any. It's a technical foul.” [34:08–34:51]
• Zaslow: Complains about early use of challenges by coaches: “Why do these coaches challenge an out of bounds play four minutes into the first quarter? What are they. Are they stupid?” [44:08–44:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Le Batard: “It will be a weird day when it's just the catcher.” (on robot umpires) [39:52]
• Dan Le Batard: “We have to support their jive. Their jive explanations like, well, it would take too long. It would bog the game down. Doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. We could instantly know yet. Strike. Strike.” [39:06]
• Stugotz (on ham): “I love ham. All right? Don't get me wrong. I did not try ham. I never tasted ham for the first time until I was 16 years old.” [08:08]
• Tony: “Beef bacon is the superior bacon.” [07:29]
• Dave: “You were programmed by the white pork sellers of America. Yes, the other white meat. Look at you.” [11:07]

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Timestamps and Segment Index

• [01:39] — Introduction of the literal 10-foot pole, show theme
• [03:13] — Luka Doncic/Lakers championship debate
• [05:43] — Swine vs. cow: the ultimate meat debate
• [08:08] — Stugotz’s first encounter with ham at age 16
• [11:07] — “Big Bacon” conspiracy, bacon marketing debate
• [17:48] — Patrick Mahomes: Is he done winning Super Bowls?
• [21:41] — Dan’s impassioned defense of titles as the core QB metric
• [25:05] — MLB Automated Challenge System explained
• [27:06] — Umpires on trial with ABS, impact on officiating
• [36:37] — “Vibes over stats” debate: embracing the human element
• [39:52] — Visual strangeness of a potential robot-umpired MLB
• [44:08] — NBA challenges and questionable coach decisions

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Conclusion

The episode delivers classic Le Batard Show banter—escalating ridiculous sports hypotheticals, pop-culture riffs, culinary debates, and spirited takes on the evolving role of technology in sports. The “10-foot pole” motif provides a playful framework, prompting the team to poke (and prod) at everything from Luka Doncic’s title hopes to the fate of the breakfast sausage—and the very nature of sports justice itself.

Essentially, it’s a blend of hot takes, nostalgia, and kinetic storytelling—always anchored by signature irreverence and rapport.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today.

[Greg Cody]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry

[Jeremy Stugats]

that I wouldn't get my new contacts

[Dan Le Batard]

in time for this class.

[Greg Cody]

I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Dan Le Batard]

And breathe.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw

[Dan Le Batard]

the discount they gave me on my first order.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Oh, sorry.

[Dan Le Batard]

Namaste.

[Greg Cody]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You saw the game winning play once, but have to replay it three times

[Dan Le Batard]

on the way back to the hotel.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Because some moments don't end at the buzzer. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at Best Western. Book direct and [e-mail]. Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings.

[Dave Feineman]

Why are you listening to this show,

[Jeremy Stugats]

the podcast that seems very similar to

[Dave Feineman]

the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry, I'm not gonna ap.

[Dan Le Batard]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Dave Feineman]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I've done it.

[Jeremy Stugats]

And now here's the marching man to

[Dave Feineman]

nowhere fat face and the habitual liar.

[Tony]

This episode of the Dan Levittart show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Nice. You see, you said that with a lot of force. I feel like that was a really good read. Greg, you're on fire so far tonight.

[Dan Le Batard]

Appreciate that.

[Tony]

Thanks. Ass.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Why is there a. Why is there a poll behind Tony? From the start of our show today,

[Dave Feineman]

juju has the polls. We usually do that at the end of the show.

[Jeremy Stugats]

No, no, no, he's. It's that like an actual pole.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

More of like a staff.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm glad it's time to start holding people's feet to the fire here around this show. You know, like, everybody loves to talk about what they will and won't touch with a figurative 10 foot pole. Tony's back there talking about this, that other everybody. That's what the show's about. But you know what? We go the extra mile. It's not a figurative 10 foot poll. We have a literal 10 foot pole. What will you touch with it or refuse to touch?

[Greg Cody]

Tony's nine foot feet tall, I guess.

[Jeremy Stugats]

All right, all right. So how do we. How do we get this started then? What?

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, let's. Let's do some basketball. Actually. Should. We should we hand that thing to a mean. Let's see how it's done. Give that one to a mean.

[Greg Cody]

Give it to a mean.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's the basketball guy, right?

[Jeremy Stugats]

So he's holding the ten foot pole here. Holding a.

[Greg Cody]

The cameras and the lighting.

[Jeremy Stugats]

All right, there you go.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right, all right, listen. People were very excited. They were very upset in Dallas a year ago when Luca went from the Mavs to the Lakers. And people, boundless optimism in Los Angeles when Luka arrived. Titles, multiple titles. Not one, not two. Luca, now there's some discord. People are unhappy with him. Amin, Luca will finish his time with the Lakers without winning a single ring. Will you touch that with the literal 10 foot pole? Where's the image? We need an image of. We need the image of. Of old Luka.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

There.

[Greg Cody]

I will stab it.

[Dave Feineman]

Stab it with a ten foot pole. Because here's the deal as I gingerly put this thing down. All right, number one, winning championships is hard. We see it every year. People get hurt, people get suspended. People lose. The motivation to play hard, apparently coaches mess up. So just the act of winning a championship is never a given in the NBA. Number two, Luka Doncic has not historically been a durable guy. No, I'm not doing a let's support Nico Harrison's BS trade thing, but there was a kernel of truth in like, how do we know this guy is going to stay durable? Number three, he plays in the Western Conference. And as we see every day, the Western Conference is cutthroat. You could be a championship caliber team and never even get a chance.

[Greg Cody]

Why?

[Dave Feineman]

Because the Western Conference. And number four, the biggest thing about the current CBA is nothing is permanent. Guys are getting traded left and right to say, oh, he'll finish his Laker career with a championship. How long is his Laker career even going to be? He might be gone in a couple of years.

[Dan Le Batard]

Paul Hamels interrupted to get that one in there.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So Amin would touch that with a ten foot pole. So as a result, he's got the pole.

[Dave Feineman]

I'm stabbing it with the ten foot pole.

[Greg Cody]

That's.

[Dave Feineman]

There's no fear in my heart when it comes to this.

[Dan Le Batard]

I have another one. Then hand this one off to Tony. Let's see how he feels about that. It came up yesterday when Greg Cody came in here and said that he had just finished off an egg and sausage. Egg and ham. Is that what you said?

[Tony]

I think it was egg and ham.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, Egg and ham croissant. Which was a weird way to articulate what he had just eaten because Generally people go meat and then the egg is the afterthought.

[Tony]

Like ham and egg.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, yeah, right, but you like ham and egger. But now what, what, what really caught my ear was that you mentioned ham, which is in my book the best of all breakfast meats. Underrated though it may be a bone in ham. Yeah, that's, that's a good way to go.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Bone in ham.

[Dan Le Batard]

Bone in ham with. Yeah, with some over easy eggs.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Like a honey glaze ham.

[Dan Le Batard]

Some. No, no, like the kind you get at Christmas time and then you put it in the fridge at night and then when you wake up, your first deed is to shave off some nice pieces then drop them in.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That's a honey baked ham.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay, honey baked ham then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's better than bacon.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Greg, you were there, right?

[Jeremy Stugats]

Honey baked, you know, raising your voice.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

But now you're like the one that cracker barrel.

[Dan Le Batard]

Can we get, yes, can we get, can we get a picture of a pig up here right now? Okay, here we have a pig.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Oh, look at Tony. He's going to taste so good.

[Dan Le Batard]

If you can only consume the flesh of one beast to the exclusion of all others for the rest of your life, the correct beast to choose is swine. Will you touch that with a ten foot pole?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I would, I would again stab it with a 10 foot pole like I'm harpooning a whale. I would go like this.

[Dave Feineman]

Boom.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Where's, where's the camera?

[Dan Le Batard]

Right, so you're going swine.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So pig would be the.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

No, I'm going, I'm going a different one also.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You would not touch him.

[Greg Cody]

No, he'll touch the conversation.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think he knows. He's willing to.

[Greg Cody]

No, he's willing to talk about.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you.

[Greg Cody]

He's touching the conversation with a 10 foot pole. He doesn't have to agree with your take, correct?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, no, no, but he's not. But, but, but the point is that that swine is the best of all meats.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

It is not.

[Greg Cody]

You wouldn't deliver his side of it.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I would not. It is the cow.

[Dan Le Batard]

Make your case.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

The cow has so many different things. I can cook steaks, I can get ribs, I can do burgers, I can do whatever.

[Dan Le Batard]

You can get beef ribs, but you can really do. Okay. I mean, if you really zero in there, you want beef ribs. Have you ever had a good beef? Yeah, of course I've, I had good.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

So then what do you. What are you talking about?

[Dan Le Batard]

I come out like a taste like I know what I know A poor. I know a pork rib is. The pork rib is tiny rib.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

The beef rib is like this big. It comes out like the pole.

[Dave Feineman]

Like the flip stones.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Exactly.

[Greg Cody]

Right.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Like a dinosaur rib. That's what I like. With a bark on top. I know you've had those.

[Dave Feineman]

I love that bark.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

The bark is great. You have that. You have steaks of all kinds.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay, you can do steaks of all kinds. Like two or three New York strips.

[Dave Feineman]

Filet mignon, ribeye.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Do you even know about churro?

[Jeremy Stugats]

You know about chiraco?

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know about Chiraco. I do know about burgers and I'll miss them. I'll miss them something awful. But then again, you need a pork loin. I'm going to wrap myself up in a. And pork chop.

[Tony]

Yeah, Bacon and baby basket.

[Dave Feineman]

Beef. Bacon is better.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Pork belly.

[Dan Le Batard]

Manute pole.

[Dave Feineman]

Beef bacon is the superior bacon.

[Dan Le Batard]

Short ends. Short ends. Can I tell you short ends, Roy? You can get burnt ends.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You can get burnt ends on the cow. Yeah, but that's off the brisket, though. That's beef.

[Dave Feineman]

That's beef, buddy.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Baby, guess what's for dinner?

[Jeremy Stugats]

Okay, I would go cow as well, but can I tell you, ham is great.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

How can you eat ham?

[Jeremy Stugats]

Well, okay, so I love ham.

[Dan Le Batard]

Jews eat. I think that's an antiquated notion.

[Greg Cody]

Misnomer.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Jewish people.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know anybody. I don't know very many Jewish people outside of Orthodox Jews. Look to your right who don't eat ham.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Okay?

[Dan Le Batard]

Haven't their whole lives.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So I love ham. All right? Don't get me wrong. I did not try ham. I never tasted ham for the first time until I was 16 years old.

[Tony]

What the hell?

[Dan Le Batard]

That seems impossible.

[Jeremy Stugats]

I'm growing up. People are having ham and cheese sandwiches. You know, whatever else you're doing with your.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

And hold on. You're sitting there like, I wish I could have some.

[Jeremy Stugats]

I just. It never occurred to me even to have it. I just know this is not something that we have ever had in my house. Just like growing up. I never had soda in my house. Okay, that's.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That's not true.

[Jeremy Stugats]

This is something that we never had in my house. Ham. And I know that we didn't have it in my house because we're Jewish and it's just a thing that we don't eat. And I had never, ever tried it before. Never even thought about it, to be honest. All right? And then at 16 years old, my parents got divorced, and I'm.

[Dave Feineman]

All right, Then you get your rebellious phase started.

[Jeremy Stugats]

And my father moved out, and he got his own place. And I was at his place one time, and he's making a sandwich, and he pulls ham, deli meat, ham out of the fridge. And I'm like, what do you got there, man? And he said, this is ham. Ham. Like, I'd never been in a house where there's ham. Ham. Not that I was offended. As a Jewish person, I was offended because I never had it before. And I go, I want to try that ham. And he gave me a piece. And this is delicious. And so now, for the rest of my life, I love ham. So good.

[Dave Feineman]

Let me say. Let me say right now. Let me say right now, as someone who does not eat pork. Every time I've accidentally had pork. Disgusting, really. I've had pork chops on accident. I've had

[Dan Le Batard]

pork chop.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Did you slip and fall and a pork chop went in your mouth?

[Dave Feineman]

I. I was somewhere. I was somewhere where they were serving, and I took, like, one bite out of it.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Because you're curious.

[Dave Feineman]

No, no. Like, they were. It was one of those, like, you're that blinded.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

No, he must have been dry.

[Dave Feineman]

It's a preset. Like, hey, this is the. And this is the. The main course. And they brought it out. I'm like, okay. And I thought it was. I thought it was beef. And I took a bottle. Oh, this is disgusting. What's that? I was like, oh, it's pork chops. I'm like, oh, that's gross. Bacon. I've had bacon. I was like, oh, this is gross, right? I didn't know bacon was in it. I took a bite in the burger. Oh, what is that? And I was like, oh, it's bacon. But you give me some beef bacon. Oh, my God.

[Dan Le Batard]

Beef bacon.

[Dave Feineman]

Beef bacon is amazing.

[Dan Le Batard]

Never. I like turkey bacon.

[Dave Feineman]

I used to like turkey bacon until flat, until I had beef bacon. Holy hell, I've been living a lie, Josh Hamilton.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, a lot of people would choose swine for their one beast because of bacon. That's how much people often like, you don't know churraco.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You don't get it. You've never had a churraco medium rare, with a little chimichurri on top and a little lime squeezed on top.

[Dave Feineman]

Also, you know why the whole bacon obsession is right? Because Big Bacon put in billions of dollars into marketing to have bacon bacon in milkshakes. Bacon and donuts. This is a real thing. I'm not.

[Dan Le Batard]

Taste buds were duped. Is that. Is that your claim? Big, big and big pork.

[Dave Feineman]

You were Programmed by the white pork sellers of America. Yes, the other white meat. Look at you.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

What else are you being programmed by?

[Dan Le Batard]

You're being programmed by Dave Damaschek. Well, here's, here's the other thing I believe is that even when it comes to people will try to make a divide of sausage links versus sausage patty. And they'll say, well, the virtue of the patty is when you want a breakfast sandwich. And I say, even then, give me the link. Give me the splayed out link on whatever your delivery bread is. If it's a bagel or an English muffin or just traditional pieces of bread, I'll take the link over the patty.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Oh, I like the patty.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's no situation that I ever want the sauce. I'm a link.

[Tony]

The link has to have a snap to it.

[Dan Le Batard]

A snap. That's the difference that you get from it, right?

[Jeremy Stugats]

Okay. So are we touching it with the. The ten foot pole?

[Dan Le Batard]

Tony did not. Or he said he's touching it.

[Greg Cody]

Just, just to change your opinion right

[Jonathan Zaslow]

now, to give you the right opinion,

[Dave Feineman]

not touching it with a ten foot pole means. You say that like I don't want

[Greg Cody]

to have this conversation.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I'll have the conversation and I'll be right.

[Greg Cody]

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[Jonathan Zaslow]

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[Jeremy Stugats]

Don Levitard. Can I tell you something? I don't know, maybe like a month ago and I decided to watch Pitch clock and I told Jeremy Stugats, this is a good show you're doing. This is the Dan Levatar show with the stuff. All right, who else can play? We got another one, Dave.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Who else wants it?

[Dan Le Batard]

Garrett Pole. Right. Did we do that one yet? Yeah, you're playing the game now.

[Greg Cody]

You're playing the game.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right, you know what? If you want to stick with. You know what, let's go back to sports here. There's a lot of buzz around. Compare Connor McDavid is a big choker and then sled. Because our favorite thing. Well, no, actually, this is. I'm going to go football here. And because our favorite sport is pro football, then we have to connect Connor McDavid or whoever's in the news to make it an NFL conversation. And so now it has become Josh Allen and Connor McDavid are comparable because neither guy's ever going to win a title. I think Zaz floated something. Interesting though. Is Patrick Mahomes. Let's give it to. We want Zaslow. Sure. I want to give. Let's give Zaslow the. The literal ten foot pole here. Jay Pole. Here we go. Jonathan Zaslow. Patrick Mahomes is finished winning Lombardi's. Will you touch that with a ten foot pole?

[Greg Cody]

You'll have this conversation. Zaz is now holding the ten foot pole.

[Jeremy Stugats]

We did Nick right dirty by showing the Patrick Mahomes, which is always funny. Okay, so pose me the question again. I was very focused on not dropping the pole.

[Dan Le Batard]

Patrick Mahomes is finished winning Lombardi's as a player.

[Greg Cody]

At least.

[Jeremy Stugats]

We had a conversation only a few minutes ago about how difficult it is to win a championship. Patrick Mahomes has already won three of them and he's been to what, a total of five Super Bowls. He's lost two.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So I. I am touching this with a ten foot pole.

[Tony]

I'm.

[Jeremy Stugats]

I'm all over this.

[Dan Le Batard]

Think about if that actually happens. That is a. That is a bold stance to take that Patrick Mahomes will not win another one. Well, 13 months ago, had he and his teammates beaten the Eagles, we would now talk About Patrick Mahomes as the greatest quarterback of all time.

[Greg Cody]

He.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Which would have been ridiculous.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, if you win three in a row, there's at least a case to be made. And then it would be the MJ.

[Jeremy Stugats]

The guy they're comparing him to is 1 7.

[Dan Le Batard]

I hear you. Like I say, it would be The Jordan and LeBron debate ongoing. And instead I do think that it's plausible, at least if not likely, that Patrick Mahomes has won his last Lombardi.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Yeah, that's why I'm touching with this poll. Grant.

[Tony]

I see why you're touching that seven foot, I mean ten foot pole. I think his reputation is sealed and made like he doesn't have to win.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's going to the hall of Fame. But it would be disappointing at this point. Right?

[Tony]

It would be disappointing for him, but not for history.

[Jeremy Stugats]

I don't think it would be disappointing. Yeah, be disappointed for him.

[Dave Feineman]

Right.

[Tony]

Because how many and I don't know the answer to this, I suspect the number is five or less. How many quarterbacks have won three or more Super Bowls?

[Dan Le Batard]

It's five or less.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Brady Aikman.

[Dan Le Batard]

Aikman is the outlier in that. Right.

[Tony]

I think Bradshaw is. No, oh, come on.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don't, don't, don't do that. Don't do that. I mean I know you want to play that game, but obviously Bradshaw made the mid career pivot from a guy who turned around and handed the ball off. Allegedly DeFranco and Rocky Blier and the defense carried the day and then they install the Mel blunt rule in 1978 and he leads the league in touchdown passes and wins the mvp. Don't, don't, don't, don't give me that jive.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Cody Napole.

[Greg Cody]

Kidman.

[Tony]

You could make an argument that Terry Bradshaw is undeserving of the hall of Fame. You can make that argument. What's his.

[Dan Le Batard]

I can make a lot of arguments. Doesn't make him right.

[Jeremy Stugats]

He laughs in your face with that statement.

[Tony]

Gary Bradshaw and I don't have the stats in front of me.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I'll pull up the stats.

[Greg Cody]

Greg.

[Tony]

Terry Bradshaw's career completion underwhelming is around 40, 52% or something.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know who's, you know who else's career completion percentage is around there? Everyone else he played with. It was a different era, it was a different game.

[Tony]

He was.

[Dan Le Batard]

If you're trying to measure. No, he was not. If you're trying to measure him against 21st century QBs, everyone's going to lose out. Everyone. Roger Staubach does Not have Brock Purdy stats.

[Dave Feineman]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Ryan Tannehill threw for more career yards than Joe Montana. Does that make him better than Montana?

[Tony]

Nope.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, come on. Listen, you can take circumstantial generational stats and compare them with the 70s. And of course, it's the same reason that Steve Garvey isn't in the hall of Fame and Dave Parker had to wait so long to get in. Because we compare. We try to apply modern standards to things that happened 40 years ago. It's unfair.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Paul Feinbaum, Great. To Greg's point, he was right on the money with the completion percentage of 51.9%, 52% for his career. But Dave, and I will ask you this. Obviously it's hard to compare eras because obviously the game is completely different. We could kind of establish a benchmark, a baseline of things that were bad in all eras.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Interceptions, turnovers. Bad in all eras. Correct.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sure.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

70s, 80s, 90s. Today,

[Dan Le Batard]

Magic 102.7.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Terry had

[Dan Le Batard]

one.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Let me see. I'm counting three.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Could have done this before.

[Tony]

No, he had.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Because there's a lot of rows and numbers. He had four seasons that he. Of 14 years that he did not throw double digit interceptions.

[Dan Le Batard]

Also, they do a tournament at the end of every season. And then when they do that tournament, it's a playoffs, they call it. And then they play the super bowl at the end of this thing, you see? And then they give out one trophy. Only one trophy. And I know people are empathetic. They're not society's greatest empath. That's me. But everybody's so empathetic about, like, that's not the end all be all. Except that so long as the sport continues to conduct that tournament and award only one team the trophy, it is going to be the most important thing of the season and who wins it. And in a. And in a league called the quarterback league. And when we all agree that the most difficult position in sports to play is quarterback, and when that guy is paid 20 times more than his teammates are paid, then obviously whether or not you win those games is everything. And so Terry Bradshaw won four of them.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

What are you talking about? There's no case to be made. It's a ridiculous case to make that Terry Bradshaw not a Hall of Famer.

[Tony]

Okay. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's not. Okay. That's not remotely comparable.

[Tony]

Will you give me this? Will you give me. Carrie Bradshaw is the least impressive of the three plus super bowl quarterbacks.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

No.

[Dan Le Batard]

Troy Aikman. Troy Aikman What? Troy Aikman is less impressive.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Did you put on the poll?

[Dave Feineman]

Who's less impressive, Troy Aikman or Terry Bradshaw? Not Carrie Bradshaw. I almost said Carrie Bradshaw.

[Tony]

Dave.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Terry Bradshaw had more interception seasons of 20 plus than he did single digits.

[Tony]

Ouch.

[Dan Le Batard]

For a long, long time, there was only one person who threw a fourth quarter. Go ahead. Touchdown pass in the Super Bowl. Deep shots at that. And Terry Bradshaw did it. Not once, but twice. He did it. What's a crazy stat though, to sort of point to how different the eras are? The first 300 yard passing game of Bradshaw's career, he gets drafted in 1970. First 300 yard passing game of his career. Super Bowl 13 in January of 1979.

[Dave Feineman]

For the love of God, say Drew Ski.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So I wanted to mention something that I saw yesterday. I was looking at it on Twitter and literally right after I was watching it, I got a message from Chris where, you know, sending me the exact video that I was watching. And so spring training is going on right now. And, and by the way, I have such a hard time with baseball where, like, baseball has tried to be really progressive. Major League Baseball has tried to be progressive. They're changing rules and they're trying to stick with the times. But I have a very difficult time every year knowing what rules changes are actually taking place. I never know how many teams are in the playoffs in Major League Baseball. How many playoff teams are you letting in this year? Like, I never know. All right. But I guess credit to Major League Baseball for trying to become more progressive. And one of those things is they're installing against the. The abs, the automated balls and strikes challenge system. So my first question here, before I get to the video I was watching that Chris immediately notified me of at the same time I was watching it, was, is this. And I guess Jeremy's the right person to direct this question to, is this a thing? Like, for sure. At the major league level this year they are doing ABS Challenge. Is it challenges?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Stugats]

And is it unlimited? Like, what is it?

[Greg Cody]

I believe it starts with two. And so long as you get it

[Jeremy Stugats]

right, you get both right.

[Greg Cody]

Continue. I don't think it's if you get both right. I think if you get it right, it like, stays at 2. I can check on that. And, and correct myself.

[Jeremy Stugats]

But it's at the major league level this year.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah. And it's for your team. Right. It's not per player. So it is determining circumstance. No different than another challenge in another sport.

[Jeremy Stugats]

And, and, and the only people who can trigger the challenge is the pitcher, the catcher or the batter.

[Greg Cody]

Right.

[Jeremy Stugats]

They got like pat their head or something.

[Dan Le Batard]

Wait, two total tash for the game.

[Greg Cody]

It's two total, but as long as you get them right, keep them interesting.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Okay, so it sounds like we, we got that down. All right.

[Greg Cody]

And now they're taking away the square though, right? Isn't that. That's the.

[Jeremy Stugats]

No, no, the square stays, but they're taken away on the television broadcast, marking where the ball landed.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, okay.

[Greg Cody]

Not even that. Actually what they're. What they're doing. We're talking this out. Yeah, no, I never know going into

[Jeremy Stugats]

every year with mlb. I don't know what rule changes are in effect.

[Greg Cody]

The only difference. Well, so the rules for the last couple of years have been, have been the same. But, but when you look at, at the way it's going to display on the screen, all that, the difference is, is they'll even show you where the ball lands. But it used to be that when a pitch is a strike automatic, it would go green or red or in some cases it would fill up. They're not doing that anymore. And that's a result of. They just don't want.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Whatever.

[Greg Cody]

I don't need to be able to. If they're going to challenge.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Yeah, whatever. That's fine. I could tell. I know what. It's a ball and a strike. So anyway, yesterday there was a game and poor umpire. This, this. Well, I mean it's a job. But yeah, this poor umpire where he kept getting checked for, you know, or challenged for ball and strike calls and like the play happens, the pitch comes in, whoever challenged it and then the umpire like, he sees the challenge and he immediately like steps aside like five spots. And it's almost like he's now on trial. He has to step aside all on his own. He's isolated now he's standing there and

[Dan Le Batard]

poured on himself to the findings. He's the one who has to say what they want.

[Jeremy Stugats]

He's on trial. I was wrong for everyone to see if he's gonna be innocent or guilty. And five consecutive challenges. The challenge was successful and he had to announce that he was wrong. I'll tell you, I don't know how this is going to be a positive thing.

[Tony]

No, they're gonna have to start recruiting people to be umpires because who would want to be an umpire when you're second guess routinely.

[Dan Le Batard]

I got great news. We have their replacement. It's called the video cameras.

[Tony]

Well, here's the thing. I like the human error involved in officiating. I think we should live with the human error. But if we're not gonna live with the human error, the occasional human error, make a decision. Either make it all human judgment or make it all electronic. Quit waffling in between with the challenge.

[Dan Le Batard]

Kind of with you on that.

[Greg Cody]

I don't know if I totally agree with you because this ABS system works so quickly that you issue the challenge. It happens within seconds. It's kind of like tennis, right? With the line judge. This happens so quickly, and as long as they're right, it continues on. But the way this is ultimately headed, more likely than not, is you have a human back there who is calling balls and strikes, but based off of, like a notification that they're getting if

[Dan Le Batard]

it's a ball, to be that fool. So you're. Are you. Are you.

[Greg Cody]

Are you in a union and are you paid?

[Dan Le Batard]

Your computer.

[Greg Cody]

I want to do it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Your computer gods are telling you that was a strike. Strike, guys. But we have to do something because

[Greg Cody]

it is the dumbest thing in all of sports that the last couple of seasons, I'm at my house on my couch, and I see that it's a

[Dan Le Batard]

ball or a strike, and this umpire in the game that matters is just getting it wrong. It is.

[Jeremy Stugats]

We.

[Dan Le Batard]

We can't have this technology and not use it. Like, I'm all for not making them all robots, but just the balls and

[Greg Cody]

strike thing, you either have to do this change or take away that box from fans. Like, I.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

It just.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You want to get my blood boiling

[Dan Le Batard]

with sports the last clearly years. Clearly, I like this watching it, and

[Greg Cody]

it's just like, how are we here?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Get them.

[Greg Cody]

It is the dumbest thing in all of sports. Find me something dumber the last couple seasons than a guy on my couch

[Dan Le Batard]

knowing it's a baller's strike, but the

[Greg Cody]

guy officiating the game doesn't.

[Dave Feineman]

I haven't seen Chris this fired up since he had to eat the Chick Fil a chicken.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, that got me fired.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Greg was very excited, by the way.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Who's the guy on your couch? You said there's a guy on your couch. You know, who knows? Who's the guy?

[Greg Cody]

My friend Fred.

[Tony]

Oh, Fred.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Wow.

[Greg Cody]

You're becoming your father.

[Dave Feineman]

That is you becoming Greg. And right before our eyes, you know,

[Jeremy Stugats]

as a guy, we start to get up there in age, and all of a sudden the energy that we used to have when we were younger just isn't there anym. I mean, I'm 45 years old now. I may look like I'm still 35, but I don't feel like I'm 35 anymore. So when the new year came around, I had to find something to get energized again. And that's why now I'm taking Mars Men as it unlocks usable testosterone so I'm feeling like myself again. That's right, my body, it makes testosterone, but a lot of it gets locked up, gets hidden away and it can't be used. So I learned there's this protein called shbg. It handcuffs your testosterone. Well, Mars Men is designed to free up that lock testosterone and now my body can actually use it. Mars Men supports healthy T levels, energy and stamina. We're talking eight naturally clinically dosed ingredients made in the USA 90 day money back guarantee so there's no risk. Worst case, you don't absolutely love it. You get your money back. For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off for life plus free shipping and three free gifts@ Mengotomars.com it's a perfect way to kick off the new year strong. That's mengo2marms.com for 50% off and three free gifts at checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show. Tell them our show sent to you. DraftKings sportsbook puts you in the middle of basketball's biggest star driven moments. Bet player props. Bet live and when a game turns fast, DraftKings has your back with early exit. If your player gets injured anytime in the first half, your bet stays alive and once it settles, you still get paid in cash. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use code DAN. New customers bet just $5 and if your bet wins, you'll get $200 in bonus bets instantly. That's with code DAN in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler, New York call 877-8-HOPE and WHY or text HOPE and WHY CONNECTICUT. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas. Wager tax pass through may apply in Illinois, 21 and over in most states. Void in Ontario.

[Greg Cody]

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[Jeremy Stugats]

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[Greg Cody]

For additional terms and responsible gaming resources,

[Jeremy Stugats]

see DKNG Co audio limited time offering. Dan LeBatard John Zaslo how you love that catchphrase. Bad news for opposing teams in the triple air stugats. These all smiles till LeBron's eye. Clutch again. Clutch again. Clutch again.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

This is the Dan Leber, our show with the stugats.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So you guys know Atlanta Braves pitcher Chris Sale. He's a great pitcher. Here is Chris. Here is Chris Sale. Now, we're gonna hold him to this, right? Because this is on the record. We're holding you to this. Chris Sale. He is saying he will never challenge.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I will never challenge a pitch. I will never do it. I won't do it. Why? Because I'm not an umpire. That's their job. I'm a starting pitcher. I've never called balls and strikes in my life. Plus, I'm greedy, and I know that. I think they're all strikes. You know, especially, you know, the catchers nowadays. The way they catch the ball, the way they receive, they make them all look like strikes. And again, I'm a starting pitcher, and I'm greedy. I like pitches that are on the corner that might be a little off in the heat of moment. Especially, you throw a good pitch, you know, you got Murph or baldy or whoever back there, and they kind of, you know, catch it the right way. I mean, they make a lot of balls look like strikes. And I don't want to take away one of those challenges that might be needed later on in the game. And I've dealt with it before. You know, it's across all games in my entire career, there's been balls called strikes and strikes called balls, and you just kind of deal with it, you know, he started.

[Dave Feineman]

I was like, you're crazy. And then as he explained, he started

[Jeremy Stugats]

to make more sense.

[Dave Feineman]

I'm like, oh, this actually ties into something on the NBA side that we've talked about, I think, Jeremy, we talked about. Well, no, it's about challenges. And so one of the most annoying things, if you're watching NBA basketball right

[Jeremy Stugats]

now, I know what you're going to say. I'm 1000% with you.

[Dave Feineman]

Ball goes out of bounds, and players instantly go.

[Jeremy Stugats]

It's like two seconds, three minutes into the game. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Dave Feineman]

Twirling their finger. There's a twirl in their finger. Oh, you got to go into the coaches. Review it. Review it. And so we came up with the solution. It was like, you know what?

[Jeremy Stugats]

But some coaches do review it, but

[Dave Feineman]

this is the solution. The solution is to do what baseball did, which is, you know what? It's like a timeout. Any player can call it. And you know what? Doesn't matter if you don't have one. No take backs, no take backs. We'll do it. And if you don't have any. It's a technical foul.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Yep.

[Dave Feineman]

And we'll get rid of overnight. All of this. This right here.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're talking about the human element from the players. Yes, of course. They're in the heat of competition. What you're also advocating for is Vibes science.

[Dave Feineman]

No, I'm not.

[Dan Le Batard]

We have the evidence. It's right there for all of our eyes. Like Chris Cody just said, we all can see it. It has been laid bare that they are frauds. That we're. We're assuming that human beings can stand behind and decide 97 miles per hour. Yeah, no, that was in the strike zone when we all.

[Jeremy Stugats]

What about curves?

[Dan Le Batard]

We have the technology available for us. It's right there for us. What are we. Why are we pretending that that doesn't exist? To put it on the players is to keep us in purgatory. To say, well, that's. That's you to have to challenge. If you don't think that was the right call, then challenge it, player. And the reason Chris Sale doesn't want to challenge it is because he's being political in the here and now. In the here and now. If he says, oh, yeah, I'm going to challenge a lot of these umpires, they don't know what they're talking about. They're going to call more balls and strikes against him.

[Greg Cody]

You're saying the umpires are like, I like this.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's a relationship.

[Jeremy Stugats]

The catcher, that's interesting.

[Dan Le Batard]

The catcher is the. The umpire is literally hovering over. So he's planted seeds the whole time. The catcher knows that if I start challenging him all the time, it's going to be a fraught relationship versus me saying like, you're doing a great job.

[Dave Feineman]

Wait, okay, so.

[Jeremy Stugats]

All right, interesting.

[Dave Feineman]

I'm with you. Much like Chris Sale, you started. I thought you were out of your

[Jeremy Stugats]

mind, a crazy person.

[Dave Feineman]

But then as you started to land the plane and you're telling me, no, no, no. If I'm out here in support of the umpires, the umpires will be more like, oh, he's one of the good ones. He doesn't question me. He doesn't second guess me a bunch of times.

[Dan Le Batard]

Of course that's true.

[Dave Feineman]

It is a strike. Guess what? Vibes over stats is such a great place to be. Who wants lasers and technology? I want vibes. That's why we're here, Dave. Cuz we want the vibes of sports. No one wants to do math on a calculator. We want to see drama play out.

[Tony]

Nothing slows sports more than a Challenge. Baseball saved itself from drowning by quickening the pace of its slow game, and now they're voluntarily inserting something that slows the game more. It's reducing. No, you don't need it. You put up with the occasional human error instead of a pitch being a quarter of an inch outside and having a replay or an ABS system to tell us whether it was a ball or a strike.

[Dan Le Batard]

More straw man stuff. Greg Cody. There's nothing. It doesn't have to take 11 minutes. When they say, well, red, red challenge flag on the field, you know you're in for a big weight. It doesn't have to be that way when they show the replay. Do you not know, Greg Cody? I know. I know immediately. I see it in real time very often. Why? Because I'm watching on hdtv. It's not in front of me.

[Greg Cody]

It's.

[Dan Le Batard]

I. I have a clear image, literally, than the referee has of the play I see in real time. If I need the double down of the replay. By the time I see two replays, I'm like, yeah, that ball hit the ground. I know that. There's no reason. And by the way, what proves that I'm right about that is the way. What did they call it this past season? The expedited review or whatever that proves that I am right about that. They would just be like, yeah, no, no, no, you should move along. Yeah, that ball was incomplete. And they would just say, expedited review. That was incomplete. Keep it.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You're right.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's no reason. It has to take.

[Greg Cody]

You're right.

[Dan Le Batard]

Has to take 15 minutes of your life.

[Tony]

Even if it's expedited, it's still too slow and an unnecessary intrusion.

[Dan Le Batard]

Unnecessary on my couch. And I know it's a ball, but this umpire who's affecting the game doesn't.

[Greg Cody]

This will just.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're just fine with that.

[Tony]

That's one of the many reasons why

[Dan Le Batard]

it could be a buzzer.

[Tony]

That's one of the many reasons why it's advantageous to watch a game from your couch rather than in a stadium, unfortunately. But all I'm against is the challenge system itself. Make a decision, sports. Go with human beings making the calls with the risk of a human error, or go with all technology, not in between. The challenge system is what I don't agree with. Embarrassing an umpire because he missed a call occasionally. I don't agree with that.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, Greg, you and I are at the exact opposite.

[Greg Cody]

Different garages.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes, different garages, indeed. I feel like Colonel Kurtz. I feel like Brando at the end of Apocalypse now, when it comes to officials, it has been. They're frauds. It's been laid bare with video that they don't know that they miss calls all the time. They are. They're errand voice sent by grocery clerks to collect a bill by the league office. We have to support their jive. Their jive explanations like, well, it would take too long. It would bog the game down. Doesn't have to. It doesn't have to. We could instantly know yet. Strike. Strike. The only reason we don't. I think a big part of it, at least when it comes to umpires, home plate umpires, is it would visually be jarring for us, the fans, to not see an umpire back there.

[Dave Feineman]

Right.

[Dan Le Batard]

It will be a weird day when it's just the catcher.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I want to see if we can do like a robot balls and strike kind of thing right here. I want to play this and see if this was a ball or a strike.

[Jeremy Stugats]

If I would ask you right now, what are the three breaking news that come to your mind immediately? That. That you.

[Greg Cody]

You.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You used.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah. Well said.

[Jeremy Stugats]

That's man.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I think it's a strike.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You can't just. You can't just take any subject matter we're talking about and then apply it.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Do you think it's a ball? Do you think it's a ball or strike?

[Greg Cody]

Just outside for me.

[Dave Feineman]

What do you think that.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You know what? I'm gonna go with that being a ball.

[Greg Cody]

You touch that sound with it.

[Jeremy Stugats]

I don't know what that means. The ball.

[Greg Cody]

I will say the one guy who's gonna bet. And by the way, like major league.

[Dan Le Batard]

They had a bald.

[Greg Cody]

Major league umpires are on average right about balls.

[Jeremy Stugats]

And it was like that. Funny.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, 93 time.

[Tony]

Exactly.

[Greg Cody]

Which is a good note. But that, if anything, that proves. Dave. Side of the point, which is the human part of this is correct the overwhelming majority of the time. So the times where it's wrong, especially late in games, it's so advantageous that there's now this system that within a few seconds we can get it right. But here's what I'm going to tell you. I believe that the guy who is going to benefit the most from this system is Jazz Chisholm Jr. Because everything about jazz is black. Yep. Disliked by umpires. And he is someone who is uber confident when he walks into the batter's box. And I have watched at bat after at bat, after at bat after at bat, where he has a great eye, where he knows that ball is Just off the plate.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Most of them do.

[Greg Cody]

And he is called for shrey. Not just because most of them do. I'm talking about a guy who, he lets the umpire know that he knows. Not only does he let them know at a disproportionate rate. You see those pitches that are balls called for strikes. And he's looking around like, what are we talking about? I'm telling you, Jazz is going to benefit in a big way from this challenge system.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Zaz, with the pitch, the wind up,

[Jeremy Stugats]

here it is, the packers win or the Bear lose. Bears lose. So going back to Jazz, this is actually interesting. What happens when Jazz Chisholm is up to bat. And unlike Chris Sale, Jazz Chisholm will challenge. And Jazz Chisholm, it's called a strike. He knows it's a ball, so he challenges, taps his head, his helmet. And the umpire is on trial all by himself, standing right over there. It comes back that it was a ball. And what if Jazz just got this shitting grin, just staring like, what's going to happen then?

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, the other, the other element to also do is if you are an emotional ball player and you say, I know that that was a, that was the wrong call challenge that the skipper is going to be like, what are you doing? We want to save those.

[Greg Cody]

Right?

[Dan Le Batard]

It shouldn't be a strategy. There shouldn't be an element of strategy of how you deploy your challenges to deploy being right. It's a crazy place, like I say, purgatory that we live in. And it's self imposed. I'm a league imposed.

[Tony]

One of the many things I hate about the challenge in the ABS system is the idea that theoretically the challenge can happen on the second pitch of an at bat with nobody on base in the third inning. In other words, it's a meaningless pitch.

[Jeremy Stugats]

Well, but that's why the manager has to tell his play. There has to be a rule set that each team has where it's like, we don't challenge unless it's after this.

[Greg Cody]

I would assume that there will be certain teams with certain players who might have the green light at all times. But I'll ask Clayton McCullough the next time I'm at spring training. Hey, what is your rule going to be team wide? Are there going to be certain guys who have the ability to do this whenever they want? Is your catcher going to have the green light whenever, whenever he wants? Or is this going to be the type of thing where, hey, we'll only make a challenge if there's already a runner on base because we think scoring is produced a run or someone in scoring position or after a certain inning.

[Tony]

I'll.

[Greg Cody]

I'll ask that question so we can get the answer from a major league manager.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Sass with the two one, shouldn't you

[Jeremy Stugats]

want to know how that. What were the kids doing?

[Tony]

Ball.

[Jeremy Stugats]

So going back to Amin's original point, it makes me nuts when these NBA coaches several. Yes, it's one thing for the player to do the bullshit. Okay? And by the way, I'm with you that if the player does it, it should automatically trigger the challenge. But. But if that happens, he's going to come up with another sign. Like going like this means challenge. Like they're going to come up with another signal. All right. But anyway, why do these coaches challenge an out of bounds play four minutes into the first quarter? What are they. Are they stupid?

[Dave Feineman]

It's because you've got a player that you're just trying to. It's politics. You're trying to get your main guy to be engaged in the game. And if this what it takes. It's just like people say. Why do they pose that dude up as the first play? He's terrible in the pose.

[Jeremy Stugats]

You're talking about deandre Ayton, right?

[Dave Feineman]

I'm not naming names. I'm just saying you do that because you know that'll keep the guy engaged for the rest of the game.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Saz, end the pitch.

[Jeremy Stugats]

He took the buttle.