The Big Suey: The James Harden of the NFL (feat. Nick Wright)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Big Suey – The James Harden of the NFL (feat. Nick Wright)

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Air Date: October 1, 2025
Guests: Nick Wright (FS1's First Things First)
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Episode Overview

This episode delivers a spirited debate on how Lamar Jackson is discussed by sports media and fans—focusing on whether there's an overcorrection in protecting him from fair criticism due to past racially-tinged skepticism. Nick Wright joins the show, drawing parallels between Jackson and James Harden for their struggles in "big games," sparking passionate conversation about legacy, fairness, and narrative in sports. The crew also transitions into discussion about MLB playoff drama—particularly a wild Yankees–Red Sox finish and the mythology of Aroldis Chapman. The episode embodies the show's trademark blend of sports analysis, cultural commentary, and humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ravens’ Defense and Lamar Jackson’s Playoff Reputation

• Historic Stat: The Ravens allowed the most points through four games by any team in NFL history with their offensive output.
  • [02:04] Mike Ryan highlights, “The Ravens point total this season is the most through four games of a season by any team with this many losses in NFL history.”
• Context: Injuries have hurt Baltimore’s defense, but not in a way that fully explains outcomes.

2. Nick Wright’s Case: The Overcorrection in Lamar Jackson Debate

• Nick Wright argues the sports world is so intent on avoiding the racial undertones of early criticism that nobody will honestly discuss Lamar’s shortcomings in big games.
  • [04:01] Nick Wright: “Because the biggest Lamar critics early on were just bad folks… there has been an overcorrection where nobody seems to want to acknowledge what is so patently obvious year after year after year: he is an all-time legendary MVP who plays his worst football in the absolute biggest games.”
• Key Parallels:
  • Compares Lamar to James Harden, Peyton Manning, Aaron Judge—great regular season, fall short in playoffs.
  • Stats back it up: In Lamar’s last 30 games, three multi-turnover games—all in crucial playoff/“big” matchups.
  • [06:12] “It’s patronizing to him to pretend like this is must be a coincidence when it obviously is not.”

3. Counterpoints & Pushback from the Show

• Stugotz: Challenges whether the recent Chiefs game is “big” enough to count against Lamar’s “big game” rep.
  • [09:43] “You can make it a big game if you want, but it was a game between two 1-and-2 teams.”
• Nick’s Rebuttal: The repetition of Lamar coming up short, especially facing Mahomes (“his kryptonite”), is not coincidence.
  • [10:10] “Is it a game against a team that he called, ‘his kryptonite’? …We can’t act like that’s coincidental.”
• Mike Ryan: Digs into Ravens’ playoff scores (“When the opponent scores more than 20 points in the playoffs, Lamar Jackson does not win those games historically.” [12:32])

4. Media, Race, and Sports Narrative

• Nick’s Theory: The reluctance to criticize Lamar isn’t because people fear being called racist, but because the “good guys” in media resent giving any ground to the “bad actors.”
  • [19:42] “I think it’s that all of the racists in sports media…were anti Lamar. And because of that, the anti-racists…overcorrected and now feel like ‘I don’t want to give an inch.’”
• Dan on Protectiveness: “If we were all just nice and kind and gentle in sports media about everyone, so be it. But that’s not how it is. And so it feels to me like there is…this patronizing protectionism…” [14:04]

5. Did Lamar “Quit”?

• Stugotz asks: Did Lamar quit by leaving the Chiefs game with a hamstring, given the game situation?
  • [21:51] Dan: “I do not doubt [that Lamar] hurt his hamstring…If it were tied, do I think he would have kept playing? Yeah, probably…But down 17 and also we’re playing the Chiefs—I probably should get healthy.”

6. Brief Diversion: Athlete Excuse Stories

• Nick’s Track Story: Nick tells a self-deprecating high school relay story about feigning a hamstring injury to avoid blame—echoing the “excuse” narrative. [24:00]

7. Baseball: The Electric Yankees–Red Sox Finish & Chapman

• Dan and crew nerd out on a dramatic MLB playoff finish: Yankees load the bases, no outs in the 9th, but fail to score—never before seen in the postseason.
  • [35:34] Mike Ryan: “The New York Yankees are the first team in ML postseason history to have the bases loaded with nobody out in the bottom of the ninth, but not score a run and go on to lose the game.”
• Pitcher Usage Debates:
  • Whether removing Yankees’ ace Freed after 102 pitches was modern analytics or overmanaging.
  • Greg Cody: “Bring back the complete game. Too much reliance on the bullpen.” [29:00]
• Aroldis Chapman’s Legend and Baggage:
  • Chapman, at “allegedly 37,” still throws 101mph, mows down the heart of Yankees lineup, called “the best pitcher in baseball” by a manager (via Eduardo Perez).
  • [46:31] Stugotz: “I was legitimately awed by what it is that he did yesterday. And I understand we do this all the time.”
  • Off-field issues lead to journeyman status; Dan: “That rarely deters teams from signing someone that’s talented enough, if we’re going to be completely honest.” [47:06]

8. Rapid Fire: Classic Dan and Stugotz Banter

• Jokes about Nick Wright’s “credibility by appearance,” random Billy anecdotes, and the crew riffing on manager “last name as insult” (Aaron “Buffoon” Boone).
• Quips about airline pilot lisps, lifelong Miller Lite partnership, and being able to “depend on the taste for 50 years.” [16:00]
• AI/Allen Iverson costume punishment bit (Dan): “I can tell you for a fact he is 137 years old…” [47:19]

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Nick Wright on Lamar’s Big Game Troubles [04:01]:
  “He is an all-time legendary first-ballot hall of fame MVP who plays his absolute worst football in the absolute biggest games. There is a name for that in sports: it’s called getting tight, if we want to be nice; choking if we want to be mean.”
• Nick Wright on Media Overcorrection & Race [19:42]:
  “Everyone who was anti-Lamar in the beginning was not racist, but all the racists were anti-Lamar. And because of that, the anti-racists…overcorrected and now feel like ‘I don’t want to give an inch.’”
• Mike Ryan’s brutal playoff fact for Lamar [12:32]:
  “When the opponent scores more than 20 points in the playoffs, Lamar Jackson does not win those games historically.”
• Dan on why the Chiefs' “solve” isn’t just strategy [11:40]:
  “Everybody has tried for a decade to solve Lamar Jackson, and the way to solve Lamar Jackson is have Lamar feel like this is a huge spot.”
• Nick Wright’s self-own (Track Story) [24:00]:
  “…I started running holding my back hamstring which was not injured, because I needed an excuse as to why I was letting the team down.”

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Start of substantive NFL talk: [02:04]
• Nick Wright’s main argument (Lamar = Harden): [04:01]
• Debate: How much does the “big game” label apply? [09:43–14:30]
• Why it’s tough for media to criticize Lamar: [19:42]
• Discussion of “Did Lamar quit?” [21:51]
• Nick’s self-deprecating ‘hammy pull’ story: [24:00]
• Transition to Baseball, Yankees-Red Sox Playoffs: [27:53–32:43]
• Historic Yankees blown opportunity & Chapman dominant ninth: [35:00–47:10]

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Tone & Style

• Energetic, with frequent interruptions and quips.
• Nuanced sports analysis mixed with irreverent humor and self-awareness.
• Nick Wright brings focused assertiveness, while Dan and Stugotz inject playful skepticism and open debate.
• Willingness to address touchy issues with candor and complexity.
• Baseball segments veer nostalgic (“bring back the complete game!”) but remain rooted in present-day analytical realities.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

• The main thrust: Are we seeing a “patronizing protectionism” in the way Lamar Jackson is covered by sports media—a modern reluctance to criticize him because of the fraught history of race and quarterbacking? Nick Wright says yes, and likens Lamar’s playoff reputation to James Harden's NBA struggles. Heated debate ensures, exploring fairness, legacy, and the ethics of sports commentary.
• Also, if you like wild MLB finishes, you’ll enjoy the crew’s detailed breakdown of an unprecedented Yankees-Red Sox playoff ending and marvel with them at the continued velocity (and career trajectory) of Aroldis Chapman.

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Summary by [Your AI Podcast Summarizer]

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

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[Stugats]

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[Stugats]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

Welcome to the Big Suey presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to.

[Dan Le Batard]

The other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Stugats]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've done it.

[Stugats]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Dan Le Batard]

This episode of the Dan Lebatard show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Mike Ryan]

Start of the day, Start of the.

[Dan Le Batard]

Day it is the start of the day Start of the day Start of the day it is the start of the day Start of the day Start of the day it is the start of the day Start of the day Start of the day it is the start of the day.

[Mike Ryan]

The Ravens point total this season is the most through four games of a season by any team with this many losses in NFL history. Of the 47 teams in NFL history to score this many points through this many games in the season, the the points allowed for Baltimore are the most in NFL history.

[Stugats]

I see the smile on Nick Wright's face. He is so tired of the rush to defend Lamar Jackson, protect Lamar Jackson. I can see that he is fed up. But give that stat again so that everyone understands how unprecedented what's happening with that Ravens defense.

[Mike Ryan]

So this was like I had to tweak this stat a little bit because that was before they surrendered the point total that they did to Kansas City, which Kansas City had an offensive get right game against the Ravens because entering that game, they had already given up 96 total points, which is the most through that many games in a season with an offensive score, 110 plus points. And now the offense is facing all sorts of challenges with Lamar Jackson's injury. There's talk that he's going to miss this week. So that defense has a lot of issues right now, Dan. And, and it's weird because they have the talent. Yes, they've had injuries, but they've had historically, over the last few years, Baltimore's had to navigate through plenty of injuries and they haven't had the same kind of challenges that they've had this year.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's that of the day. Presented by Amazon Prime Video. Thursday Night Football is on. The San Francisco 49ers take on the Los Angeles Rams. Coverage begins Thursday at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video.

[Stugats]

You say that, Mike, but last year their defense was the healthiest in the league, missed the fewest games. And this year they're lacking the health more than any other team in the league. But Nick, what are your thoughts here? You saw the get right game that your beloved Mahomes had against one of the worst defenses ever seen and the worst one statistically in the sport this season.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, listen, I get it. Josh Allen, you know, scores 40 on the Ravens. He's. He's playing the position at a higher level than ever. The, The Lions score 40 on the Ravens and they officially don't miss Ben Johnson anymore. They're back. The Chiefs score 40 on the Ravens. Like the Ravens must be bad. But that's not the story. This. Listen, I want to have an actual adult conversation about how Lamar Jackson is discussed and why I think it's he's discussed as such. Okay. So Dan, see if I can sell you on this because there is a bit of the enemy of my enemy is my friend here, which is when Lamar was coming out of school while Bill Polian got the face of it because he said he should be a wide receiver or whatever. The loudest and most ardent Lamar Jackson skeptics, most of them were bad actors. I'm not calling Bill poly in that. They were folks that people in my position in the media, young, usually pretty liberal myself, pretty, I think evolved on a lot of social issues, really didn't like those folks. They didn't want and they were like. And they found their opinions to be abhorrent and not really just about football. And I believe to my core that because of that and because the biggest Lamar critics early on were just bad Folks, there has been an overcorrection where 8 years later nobody seems to want to acknowledge what is so patently obvious year after year after year. Which is he is an all time legendary first ballot hall of Fame MVP who plays his absolute worst football in the absolute biggest games. There is a name for that in sports. It's called getting tight. If we want to be nice, choking. If we want to be mean, we have no problem saying it about Aaron Judge, we have no problem saying it about James Harden, we had no problem saying it about Peyton Manning. But because Lamar, for some reason or another we are still fighting this old battle of can he be a quarterback? Folks don't want to cede any ground and then I have to listen to even an over over correction which is actually if you remove running, he's the best, one of the best players ever. Look at his passer rating as if that isn't influenced by the defense being afraid of him being, being able to run because he's so dynamic. We have to pretend as if it's not a fact that in the last 30 games he's had three multi turnover games. The AFC title game against the Chiefs, the divisional round against the Chiefs and Sun or against the Bills and Sunday against the Chiefs. Then in the last 30 games he's thrown seven total picks which is remarkable. Four of which were regular season picks that hit his receiver in the hands and the other three were just awful, awful decisions that were in the AFC title game, the divisional round game and Sunday against the Chiefs. Those games. All of which he also had an inexplicable fumble. It's patronizing to him to pretend like this is must be a coincidence when it obviously is not.

[Mike Ryan]

Nick laid it out tremendously well. I guess what muddies water a little bit is all the individual achievements and accolades that Lamar Jackson has stacked. Won a Heisman Trophy, multiple MVPs in the NFL. At no level, including high school has Lamar Jackson ever quarterbacked a championship team dating back to Boynton Beach. He has never been a part of a championship team, not an accident, not an ACC champion.

[Dan Le Batard]

I, I, well and I don't listen, I don't know if Tennessee ever won the SEC and I don't know if Arizona State ever won the Pac 10 or Pac 12 conference tournament, but I know that no, I, I don't get why it's fair for other guys like James Harden has more first team all NBAs than Steph Curry. James Harden has the statistical profile of a top 15 all time player and he is barred from that conversation correctly because year after year after year, he comes up short in the biggest spot. Peyton. When they won the super bowl in Indy, he didn't get over his big game stuff. He had three touchdowns, seven picks on that playoff run. Bill Simmons did a whole Peyton Manning face thing. And then I listen to the commentary after the Chiefs game Sunday and there's eight seconds on the fact that they're up 73. The Chiefs aren't humming yet. They have the ball at midfield. And for the first time in the regular season in two years, Lamar just throws a. What the hell was that? Off his back foot, first down, interception. And everyone's like, no, the defense was just too injured. The whole world picked the Ravens going into that game with the defense being injured. That game did not flip because Marlon Humphrey went out. Marlon Humphrey went out when they were already down 17. The defense didn't. That game didn't flip because Roquan Smith got hurt. That game flipped because Lamar had two first half turnovers.

[Stugats]

While, while, while the Chiefs were frustrated on offense, the Chiefs were in a vulnerable position. The place that I would push back on you. I believe your critique. Critique is fair and accurate before season and based on those playoff games, you're making this a big game when you can if you want, but this doesn't count like it's two one and two teams. This is not an AFC championship game. He had. He had a bad game. You can make it a big game if you want, but it was a game between two one and two teams.

[Dan Le Batard]

He had a bad game against Dan. Dan. Is it a game against a team that he called, quote, his kryptonite? Yes. Was it a game against a player in Patrick Mahomes that he said a few years ago? No, I don't like players playing him. Is it a game against a team that he has now played seven times, lost six, two, and is it a game.

[Stugats]

Oh, Nick.

[Dan Le Batard]

Staring across the field.

[Stugats]

Nick, you know that. Nick, you know that the Chiefs defend him differently than every team in the league. You know that they have a spotter and they have a way. They've got a solve on Lamar Jackson that no other team has. Their defense, their defense can stifle him. But you're just making an arbitrary game four of the season count as much as one of the playoff games because he had a bad game.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, no, no, hold on. I'm not doing that. What I am saying is that when there is, there are, there's a big three quarterbacking in the NFL at this point. Patrick, Lamar and Josh Burrows out because he's out. And when Lamar has consistently played not not every single game, but consistently played his worst ball in against one of those other two guys, particularly against Patrick, we can't act like that's coincidental.

[Stugats]

It's not coincidental that the Chiefs have a solve for him. They put a spotter on him and they can slow him.

[Dan Le Batard]

I. Here's my answer to that. I don't buy that. I do not buy that. Are the Chiefs games not on film? All right. Nobody else can watch what the Chiefs do. Everybody has tried for a decade to solve Lamar Jackson, and the way to solve Lamar Jackson is have Lamar feel like this is a huge spot. That's how you like he. I don't. And so we, we're not going to pretend like when Brady and man, like one of the most famous Brady Manning games ever was a regular season game, but when Belichick went for the fourth.

[Stugats]

Down, you have him losing to Josh Allen in Game 1. That wasn't his fault.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I, no, no, no. I'm not, I'm not putting.

[Stugats]

But you're saying the games. You're saying the games against Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes, the last one he had against Josh Allen, he had him beat.

[Mike Ryan]

Let me also provide some. Let me also provide some more stats because it's not just the Chiefs. He has five losses in the playoffs. Here are the. The Ravens point totals in these games. In Lamar's playoff debut, they scored 17 points. They lost to the Chargers, 12 points against the Titans, three points against the Bills, 17 points against the Cincinnati Bengals, 10 points against the Kansas City Chiefs. When the opponent scores more than 20 points in the playoffs, Lamar Jackson does not win those games historically.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hold on. So I think we might be leaving the. The Bengals one, I think was a Huntley playing just to be fair, but I think we're also leaving one out. What is true is this. In four of his five years in the postseason, the single fewest points the Ravens scored all year was in their playoff game. They've played the Chiefs in the playoffs once. It's not that the Chiefs have a solve for him like I don't and you can. And no, I want to be very clear. I didn't. I was not putting game one on Lamar. And I think game one of the season was a game he played really well in, and that was a game where the defense and Derrick Henry's fumble let him down. I. So, to be clear, what I do, I just don't. The bigger question I have is why on Earth am I and seemingly Shannon Sharpe on an island on this. Why is it is such a patronizing protectionism and I've got to deal with people I really like and respect. I and we joke but I adore Mina Kimes as a human being and have massive respect for her football knowledge. Massive respect. I went on her pod this off season and I referenced the Ravens playoff game and she just said like matter of factly, Lamar was not bad in that game. He had four turnovers all year. Two in the first half of the playoff game they lost in what now did he rally at the end? Did he give them a chance to come back? Sure. But he dug that hole. Like I just it is it. If we were all just nice and kind and gentle in sports media about everyone, so be it. But that's not how it is. And so it feels to me like there is and people also do this thing. They're like, well it, you know, all these Bills and Ravens are this, these all time team stats and Josh and Lamar these all time player stats but haven't made a Super Bowl. That's actually a Patrick Mahomes compliment. But that's true for the Bills. The Bills four times got blocked in the playoffs by Mahomes. The Ravens, it's once and so. And to kind of add to the other point, Dan, a week four regular season game against the defining player of the league when both of your teams are teetering on must win adjacent territory and you have your worst regular season game in two years. I'm not going to call that a coincidence.

[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

That's right.

[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, to think that people were celebrating at my bar mitzvah with Miller Lite as they were a partner of this show is pretty incredible.

[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

Is your number one theory on this that people are afraid to criticize him because to criticize him might get you called racist? Like, what is your. What is your number number one theory?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, it's not. No, no, no. I do not think I want to make it very clear. I think it's that all of the racists in sports media, or really they're not even really in sports media that dabble in sports were anti Lamar. All of them were. And not. And let me again be very clear on what I'm saying. Everyone who was anti Lamar in the beginning was not racist, but all the racists were anti Lamar. And because of that, the anti racists, of which I consider myself one, and I think a lot of my young media colleagues consider themselves are one overcorrected and now feel like I don't want to give an inch. It's. It's that meme when the worst person in the world makes a good point and you're like, no, I don't want at all for those folks to have any type of win, which I actually empathize with. And I might actually, if I wasn't so felt so steady on my ground of like, okay, if folks want to call me an anti black racist, like, you can go ahead and try, but I just think I. I don't think that's gonna play. So maybe I'm not. May. May. Maybe I'm. I. I'm less anxious about it that I can just call for what I see it, which is he's James Harden of the NFL and that guy's going to be first Battle hall of Famer, one of the most unique players ever. But why do we have to pretend it's bad luck? That's All I'm saying, why do we. And why do we have to pretend that it's surprising that that happened? It wasn't.

[Stugats]

He's the host of FS1's First Things First. I suggest that you listen to what's right with Nick Wright. He does that with his son. You can watch him on First Things first weekdays at 3pm on FS1. Did you think he quit? Because I don't think a lot of quarterbacks in that situation, people would leap to the conclusion that he quit at the end of the third quarter when he left the game. But a lot of people did jump to the conclusion thinking that Lamar Jackson quit at the end of that game.

[Dan Le Batard]

What I thought. I thought it was weird that he wasn't seemingly getting treatment and then they. He had seemingly tied around his hamstring just a couple Gatorade towels. I thought that was weird. I also think that right after the game, Harbaugh was like, I don't know if, you know, if he could have gone back in. Then the next day he was like, he definitively couldn't have gone back in. And then yesterday, the Baltimore sun none of like the, you know, national reporters. The Baltimore Sun's like, oh, he's out for Houston and it could be two to three weeks. I do not deny at all, or I don't. Do not doubt. I should say that Lamar hurt his hamstring in that game. If you're asking my honest opinion of if it were tied, do I think he would have kept playing? Yeah, probably do. I think, though, that would have been like, that's totally reasonable. If it's like, ah, I could play through this, but it might make it worse. But we're down 17 and also we're playing the Chiefs. So we lost as soon as we got off the bus. I probably should get healthy. I think that's. I think. I think that would be totally legitimate.

[Stugats]

Billy just said to me, classic Tony. Classic. Just quitting at the end when you realize you're going to Nick.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know if you know this. Yesterday Tony decided for some reason to kick field goals on the show while giving a list no one cared about. He lost the ball beforehand because he claimed that he kicked it so well that he kicked it over the fence. No one saw it happen. Then the kicks that we did saw were three horrific kicks. And on the fourth one, he just decided not to participate anymore and pulled up and he said that he pulled his hip and he couldn't kick anymore. Can I. Can I. I know we don't have a ton of time here, but can I tell a story where I was covered in shame? I've told him publicly once before. No, I can't.

[Stugats]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, sorry, Bill.

[Stugats]

No, don't listen to him. Don't listen to him.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know. Billy's in charge. Would you fly on a plane with a captain that has a list just real quick before your story? Yeah, of course. That seems like the most offensive thing said on this show in six months. Would you prefer a letter? Would you prefer your pilot to be blind or deaf? I don't. You know what? I'm not comfortable answering any of these questions. What I will tell you is this. Anybody that. And then I'll tell the story about where I'm covered in shame. Anybody who I think has something. It's the. It's the Nick right on TV corollary. And don't you guys pull up the picture. I'm gonna tell a funnier story. It's my how I. How I look actually makes gives me more take credibility because like man, that guy must really sons of that guy must really be sharp because why else would he be on tv? So whenever I see someone that has, you know, a different ability or something that I think could have worked against them in the hiring process, I'm like, man, they must be really good because they had to overcome it. Now, to my story before I go, so people who are mad at me can at least take pleasure in this state final four by 800 relay high school. I am the third leg of the team and I think I'm running a great time. But then I see three. When I got the baton, we were in metal stand position and three people passed me on the second lap with 200 lap, 200 meters to go. I started running holding my back hamstring which was not injured because I needed an excuse as to why I was letting the team down.

[Stugats]

It's a good move. It really is. Do you have anything for Pablo on your way out? Your nemesis, Pablo again. He's the host of FS1's First Things First. What's Right with Nick Wright is a podcast I recommend to you. He does it with his son and it is a charming and smart and lovable. It is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, charming and lovable. I appreciate that. That's how I hope all my media endeavors are described. Yes, I. All I have for Pablo is at this point I am rooting for him to be right because I just want to see what cute like I'm at one point I was rooting for Cuban, but now I've kind of gone in the other direction and the only thing I'm rooting for more than Pablo to be right is for Pablo's next big story to be something I actually care about.

[Stugats]

See you later, Nick. Always good seeing you. He does not care about the Kawhi Leonard story. I too am rooting for Pablo to be right because I don't want the world's seventh richest man to sue me. So I kind of need Pablo to be factually correct on that because I don't want an ugly public fight on embarrassing Steve Ballmer in a way that is inaccurate. Greg Cody I didn't want to go too much further in the show today without talking about the baseball yesterday because I thought it was really fun and I don't think baseball can get a lot better than the bottom of the ninth inning at Yankee Stadium. But you are someone who can be anti baseball. Jeremy was so excited about an invitation to Yankees Red Sox that instead of doing a live stream yesterday that he had promised us, he immediately flew out and everyone shamed him here for doing this. And I just love the adventure in him. I love that he's that hungry about loving sports that that the opportunity to watch a game at Yankee and Yankee game at Yankee Stadium and see that bottom of the ninth inning is something that he bombed out of here and flew. Hopefully a pilot that didn't have a lisp flew straight to Yankee Stadium to watch that game. What did you think of the fun yesterday in baseball? Because all of the games were great and I'm saying Dodgers, Reds were also great because I saw Shohei Ohtani take 101 mile an hour pitch from Hunter Green, hit it 117 miles an hour out of the ballpark and have it be his second most impressive home run of the night.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I'm GLAD they said 117 because I was guessing it went 120 miles an hour. So I really needed to know the specifics on that. I'm not a huge baseball fan. I am a Yankees Red Sox fan. Whenever they play, I'm tuned in that the Red Sox were my first love in baseball, probably in sports back in the mid-60s. And so I tuned into that game. I love the ending, obviously, because I'm a Red Sox fan, which means I hate the Yankees. But it's emblematic of what's wrong with baseball. Okay, the pitcher for the Yankees, Max Pronounced Freedom is pitching a gym. He is shutting out the Red Sox and the manager pronounced Aaron Buffoon Takes him out after six and a third inning, and the bullpen blows up and the Red Sox win because of Aaron Boone's misplay. And that's. That's baseball now. Okay. When I grew up, Gaylord Perry had like, 35 complete games in a season. The complete game has died. Oh, yeah. The leader in complete games now has, like three because it's late in the season and they don't care. So they say, yeah, let's let McGillicuddy pitch the whole game. Bring back the complete game. Too much reliance on the bullpen, and that was emblem. I'm thrilled it happened yesterday because I wanted the Red Sox to win. What a great finish. But Aaron Boone blew that game because he was following what baseball has become. Greg, it's not beneath you to change, like, his last name from Boone to buffoon. Is that beneath me? Yeah, I would have thought that's beneath you. It was too easy, but it was not beneath me. He just said how it's pronounced. Same thing as, like, Max Freed is pronounced Freed, even though it's spelled fried. So he has to tell us exactly how it's pronounced, not how it looks. He was a buffoon in that instance. Yeah. People have been saying that about him since he intentionally walked Miguel Cabrera a couple years ago when he was trying to get his 3,000th hit. There you go. See, people have really been going after Aaron Boone saying he should lose his job for a while now. He's probably gonna lose his job. Honestly. The thing about that, that was weird, too, is that he brought him in to start that inning, and it was a three pitch at bat, and then he took him out. Like, why didn't you just. If you weren't going to have him pitch the inning, why didn't you just start with a clean slate? Boone statement afterwards was just basically the bullpen. Like, we were set up right after that first batter. We were set up the rest of the way with our bullpen. I mean, it's what every team does nowadays. It's not like Aaron Boone did anything different than what most every other manager does. But it's ridiculous that you adhere so strictly to the pitch count. He was on 99 pitches, which is why they let him start.

[Stugats]

He threw 102 pitches. And the thing that needs noting here, while your criticism, and you're not alone because Fried and Jazz Chisholm seemed upset about it. The reason that they do that is because statistically, empirically, okay, this is so what I'm about to say. It's mathematically factual. The third time through a lineup is when these pitchers get hit. The first two times through the lineup is when. That's why the whole sport has changed in this regard. But I too would have stayed with my ace in that spot, especially since my ace is better than my bullpen.

[Dan Le Batard]

They figured Luke Weaver out in the first time through that lineup though real quickly to the tune of not getting it out.

[Mike Ryan]

All that being said though, they still had an opportunity to win that game. They had bases loaded, no outs against the world of Chapman. Now a lot of lefties in the in that bottom half of the ninth for New York. Granted one of them is Bellinger. He does historically well against lefties. But the Yankees are the first team in major league postseason history to have the bases loaded and nobody out in the bottom of the ninth but not score a run and go on to lose the game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Aroldis Chapman still throwing that heat on.

[Mike Ryan]

Dude, there was a sequence where he went from 101 to 87. How does anybody work with this?

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Stugats]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

You don't remember the idea.

[Dan Le Batard]

I was probably like, that kind of thing.

[Stugats]

Something.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay, no, the home run call was that kind of swing. That kind of thing.

[Mike Ryan]

Stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, it's a good call. Thank you. And plus, it doesn't matter who's hitting it. Like, you're not tailoring it to a particular name. You know, all that jazz, you know, you don't got to do that. You just.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, that would be a great call.

[Dan Le Batard]

Swing. That kind of thing. This is the Dan lebatar show with the stugats.

[Stugats]

I want to talk about that bottom of the ninth inning. Okay. And I want to talk about it for 10 minutes because of how special it actually was. First of all, give me the music again so that Mike can give the stat from our most historic sport.

[Mike Ryan]

Start of the day, Start of the.

[Dan Le Batard]

Day it is the start of the day Start of the day Start of the day it is the start of the day Start of the day Start of the day it is the start of the day Start of the day Start of the day it is your.

[Mike Ryan]

Start of the day Courtesy of Optisets. The New York Yankees are the first team in Major League Baseball postseason history to have the bases loaded with nobody out in the bottom of the ninth, but not score a run and go on to lose the game. I guess the context there is maybe it's happened once before and teams ended up winning in extras and coming back. But to have a win or loss situation against the Boston Red Sox like the New York Yankees had last night with the best possible scenario. Bases load, no outs. No team has done what we saw the Yankees do last night.

[Dan Le Batard]

Also, I'd like a small stat of the day here I saw as well. Now granted, this new format Only began in 2022, but no team in this wild card round has lost game one and then won the next two games. Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

In fact, getting to game three is only happened four times. I thought the baseball was awesome. I checked in on it and I was locked in. These games flew. They were high drama. I. I loved what Major League baseball had to offer yesterday. I'm back in today.

[Dan Le Batard]

Anyone else want a little more from Aaron Judge in that ninth inning, base hit up the middle. Need more.

[Stugats]

Let's. Let's talk about this for a second because that really was a magical half inning. And let me go through all of this because Crochet retired 17 straight batters. And you can do all the managerial stuff you want. And I understand it. Today you're not alone. Okay? Nick Turturro is furious. Nick Turturro, as is his want. He is enraged with all things Yankees.

[Dan Le Batard]

Nick Turturro, NYPD Blue.

[Stugats]

Let's listen to Nick Turturro, who's been on the show with us. He's a lunatic. He's the brother of John Turturro.

[Dan Le Batard]

How do you not score? How could you not score three singles in a row?

[Stugats]

Unbelievable.

[Dan Le Batard]

That same shit every year. And if you take out a guy pinching a shutout.

[Mike Ryan]

Did you agree with the decision to not pinch run Goldschmidt? I know he didn't represent the tying run, but with bases loaded, no outs, like there seemed like a play could have been made where you could have advanced the runners.

[Stugats]

Okay? So this is exasperating to me because I understand how we're going to make this about something other than Araldis Chapman. Like I understand how we're going to do this. Manager, this decision. Here's why it's wrong.

[Dan Le Batard]

Boone sucks, though.

[Stugats]

I get it. I get it. You're not alone.

[Dan Le Batard]

Shut down too.

[Stugats]

You're not alone with that. And Freed. That's how you pronounce it, right? Greg Freed. Freed says of buffoon. And I was wrong on Freed. I said the Yankees aired by immediately pivoting off of Soto. And I thought they overpaid Freed. They needed Freed to be an ace. Yesterday he was an Ace. But let's listen to Freed because he didn't. He sure as hell didn't want to come out of the game. Let's listen to him before we go to Jazz Chisholm with his back to reporters because of how pissed off Jazz Chisholm was.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, I definitely felt. Felt good at the end. Yeah. You know, coming out, coming out feeling good. Would you have liked to have stayed in longer? I mean, I'm, I'm gonna stand until I get the ball taken from me. I want to pitch as long as I possibly can. And you know, when the ball gets taken out of my hands, is that's what it is?

[Mike Ryan]

Next.

[Dan Le Batard]

Did you feel like you had more left? Yeah, I mean, I definitely felt. I felt good. So like I, you know, whatever, whatever the team needed. How great would have been if. When she asks him, did you want to stay in longer? Just goes, no. Gotta look out for your coach there. That'd be a nice guy. Nice move. What was Boone thinking? That's what he should have said. Boone's not gonna be that much longer. Can I say something? That people are not gonna take a fire a mid series. Oh, wow. I like that. You know what? I don't like watching that clip back. Let's. Let's bring back the facial hair rule for the Yankees. How do you clean up that stubble? Max Freed, you look like a disaster.

[Mike Ryan]

Was an old timey baseball player looking guy with a mustache and no batting gloves. That came up in that bottom of the ninth. I do have general baseball questions though, because. Surprised that Araldis Chapman is still that unhittable.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right?

[Mike Ryan]

Surprised that he can hit 107, 101 like, like seven times in that half inning. He was unbelievable. And he pulls it on a string and goes to the mid-80s. That's crazy. And the Goldschmidt thing seemed weird to me. And there was one sequence where a baserunner that has more fleet of foot could have possibly tagged out from there.

[Stugats]

I'm going to ask you guys again, like, because I want to get to the greatness. I know we got a million questions. We love to do this whenever somebody loses, okay? But I want to talk about Chapman and I want to talk about the Cuban, the Cuban pitcher, specifically, because what happened in that ninth inning was Chapman happened to the Yankees in that ninth inning. After three straight pitches, they get singles. It's Goldschmidt, it's Judge, and it is Bellinger. Three straight pitches, singles. They load the bases. Okay, against. As Eduardo Perez is saying that's the best pitcher in baseball. A manager called me and told me that's the best pitcher in baseball. Aroldis Chapman. Billy, can you look up for me? How many teams has Chapman played for?

[Dan Le Batard]

He played for the Reds, then the Yankees, then the Cubs, then the Yankees again, then the Royals, then the Rangers, then the Pirates, now the Red Sox.

[Stugats]

How old is he?

[Dan Le Batard]

Allegedly? 37.

[Stugats]

Okay, that's good. That's a good allegedly, because I do want to talk about the Cuban pitcher. And specifically I want to ask the rest of you because they tend to come through Miami and it's always pitchers, right? Contreras has helped win a title. Levon Hernandez has helped win a title. El Duca has helped win a title. It's never a position player. It's always a pitcher. So Araltus Chapman is in that game, and he is. He's throwing 101. When Mike says he goes 101 to 87, it's when and how he went 101 to 87. He's facing Grisham with the bases loaded. He's down to one in the count. Grisham's got no chance when he goes lefty on lefty. And he throws an 87 mile an hour slider right over the place, right over the plate, down to one in the count. What came up next is the meat of the Yankee order, okay? Because I know you put your top three guys up at the top of the lineup. Now, statistically, that's how they all do it in baseball. But it's going to be Stanton, it's going to be Chisholm. They're going four, five, six. He gets two strikeouts and he gets a fly out. Let's go to the sound and the video of Jazz Chisholm with his back to reporters because he's doing the same thing you guys are doing. He doesn't want questions about the when the starter was taken out, when Goldschmidt should be taken lifted for a pinch runner. I thought you guys would be interested in this inning just because it's all players you've heard of. It's Stanton, it's Chisholm, it's Goldschmidt, it's Judge. It's all the players that you guys actually know.

[Mike Ryan]

And the one that I didn't had the glorious mustache with no batting gloves.

[Stugats]

And here's Jazz Chisum with his just back the whole time to reporters.

[Dan Le Batard]

Were you surprised about the decision? I guess, yeah. Jazz, Is that a conversation at all with him or is it he shoots you a text.

[Mike Ryan]

It is what it is.

[Dan Le Batard]

And Kind of move forward.

[Stugats]

It's a little conversation.

[Dan Le Batard]

Not much, but, you know. Yeah, just move forward after it. He has a shirt on. On. Why is he looking for a shirt? I'm curious. Did they start asking him questions with his back turned or was he facing them? They started and then he turned around. Because if your back is turned the whole time, it just kind of like, all right, you don't want to talk. He wasn't ready for questions yet. Well, my first question would have been jazz. Do you mind turning around and so that we can hear? You would have said that. Yeah, like, Jazz. Are you looking for another shirt because you're wearing a shirt currently?

[Stugats]

That would have been a great. That would have been a great question that you're asking there. And so we do this in baseball all the time. I told you the story. Renee Lachman got really mad at me. Okay. Because 61 games into their inaugural season, I'm in print questioning a bunch of managerial decisions. The Yankees lost because the six guys at the top of their lineup, three of them single. Judge is still. Judge had two hits yesterday. And that's not going to be enough because people are seeing what Ohtani's doing. Judge now has this reputation of they need home runs from the Yankees. The Yankees keep getting their season stifled because they hit home runs during this season, and then they get to the postseason and they don't hit home runs. Their first three hitters, Single, Single. Single on three straight pitches. And then he mows through the other three guys. And the thing that I wanted to talk to you about as it relates to the Cuban pitcher I remember years ago, Rene Orocha gets here. They get here in the strangest fashion. Some of them have to defect in ways. Like in Duques Case, he's living on an island, a boat. He's eating snails and getting very sick because he's trying to get to America. Araldes Chapman story is nuts. It doesn't make any sense that that human being at 37 years old would still be throwing 101 miles an hour. When he introduced us to 100 miles an hour. The idea that from the left side that he would slingshot through those lefties in the middle, in the middle of their owner go through Chisholm after allowing Bellinger to have the hit, after allowing Judge to have the hit. The idea that Eduardo Perez would be describing that would be saying on the telecast that a manager told me that's the best pitcher in baseball this season. When. When Billy just gave you the number.

[Mike Ryan]

Of teams, allegedly 37.

[Stugats]

He was on the Texas Rangers. They weren't using him when they won the championship.

[Mike Ryan]

But I know baseball has evolved some in the years that I've kind of disconnected from it. I was watching baseball when we're all the Shabbat and was throwing heat. I understand that. I also understand righty lefty matchups and why Bellinger is an outlier for left lefties. Why so many lefties in the lineup? Jeremy, I'm going to tag you in. And why not pinch run for Goldschmidt? Those were the questions that I had. Is this some new evolution of the sport that I'm missing here?

[Dan Le Batard]

The Goldschmidt pinch running that run doesn't matter. Right? You got a runner standing on second.

[Mike Ryan]

That represents the time I'd argue with zero out. So there was a situation where he could have advanced the runners with a better runner.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, but he's sitting there. That run doesn't matter. You end up needing a walker to tie it up.

[Mike Ryan]

I understand he doesn't represent the tying run, but again, you could have advanced the runners.

[Dan Le Batard]

But ultimately you're also looking at more options for pinch hitters. And Grisham coming up. Lefty on lefty. Ben Rice was their best option off the bench. He was sat specifically because they had a lefty and Garrett Crochet going to begin with. The only guy who could have been hitting as a as a right handed hitter would have been switch hitting Jason Dominguez. Their entire bench was full of lefties. It's just an unfortunate circumstance for them where their plan was to deploy guys like Jazz and Ben Rice against right handed relievers by hoping that you could get to some of those guys in high leverage innings in the seventh or eighth because they would take out Crochet by the sixth or seventh, similar to how Freed was taken out by the Yankees. The thing about Chapman, Dan, that we didn't mention before we were saying the names is since 2022, it's a different team every single season. So 2023 he was on two teams. 2024 he was on a new team. 2025, he's on a new team.

[Stugats]

I was legitimately awed by what it is that he did yesterday. And I understand we do this all the time.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's also fallen off, by the way, in terms of like he has the record for fastest pitch ever at 105.8 miles an hour. So at 101 they're like this guy shell of himself. He's also had off the field stuff, which could explain why he's been. Yeah, well, I was about to say, why has the, quote, best pitcher in baseball been traded so many times? Been, been literally been had a journeyman career and been with what, nine, eight, nine teams? Why?

[Stugats]

There have been a lot of off field issues like that. There's some ugliness there, but that rarely.

[Dan Le Batard]

Deters teams from signing someone that's talented enough, if we're going to be completely honest. Missed.

[Stugats]

That's the truth. I still am stunned, though, to see someone who's allegedly 37 years old still throwing 101 miles an hour.

[Dan Le Batard]

I can tell you for a fact he is 137 years old. And if you didn't know the reason I'm dressed as Allen Iverson is because I'm doing my punishment. The AI where I will be giving you only factually correct information from AI for the rest of this show, including the fact that the Bucket is named after Charlie Bucket from Omar Dahl's book Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[Stugats]

Billy, what did you ask Jeremy?

[Dan Le Batard]

Where he slept. Yeah, right. What does Zyn give you? Not just smoke free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom. Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards. With Zinn Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech outdoor gear and gift cards to your favorite retailers. Find your Zen and keep finding rewards that fit your [e-mail] rewards. Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.