The Big Suey: The New York Jets Mess Continues To Grow (Feat. Dianna Russini)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz Episode: The Big Suey: The New York Jets Mess Continues To Grow (Feat. Dianna Russini)
Release Date: December 19, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, host Dan LeBatard and co-host Stugotz delve deep into the continuing chaos surrounding the New York Jets. Featuring insights from sports reporter Dianna Russini, the discussion unpacks the multifaceted issues plaguing the franchise, ranging from ownership decisions to player management. Additionally, the conversation expands to broader topics such as the definition of toughness in sports and the interplay between public personas and mental health.

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1. The New York Jets: A Growing Mess

a. Ownership and Decision-Making Issues

The primary focus of the episode centers on the dysfunction within the New York Jets organization. Dianna Russini provides a compelling narrative on how owner Woody Johnson's teenage sons are increasingly influencing team decisions, leading to questionable moves and a lack of professional judgment.

• Madden Ratings and Trades: A notable incident discussed is the failed trade for Jerry Judy, which fell apart because Woody Johnson deemed Judy's Madden NFL rating insufficient. LeBatard remarks, "That was stunning to me. And there are a lot of people around the league who knew about it." (05:46)

b. Treatment of Players

The hosts highlight the problematic treatment of players by the ownership, citing the example of quarterback Mike White. During a period of injury, White was publicly reprimanded by Johnson, who yelled at him for his frustration over broken ribs. This incident underscores a toxic environment where player well-being is compromised for short-term performance.

• Dan LeBatard on Player Treatment: "But to understand what was going on there and to treat your players that way, I think that obviously is something that does not reflect very well on this Jets organization." (07:27)

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2. Defining Toughness in Sports

The episode transitions into a discussion about the broader concept of toughness within the sports world. The hosts debate the adequacy of labeling players as "soft" versus offering a more nuanced analysis of their physical and mental resilience.

• John Amaechi's Efficiency Argument: "No, it's just efficiency, soft. Let's say I got to fit it in 140 characters..." (02:01)

• Stugotz on the Inaccuracy of Labels: "It has to be blanketed by overall toughness." (03:01)

Discussion of Specific Players:

• Myles Garrett: The conversation touches on Garrett's on-field behavior, questioning his toughness given instances where he appeared to struggle physically during games.

• Joel Embiid: Amaechi criticizes Embiid's playing style, suggesting that his mannerisms and approach to the game reflect a lack of genuine toughness.

  • Amaechi's Critique: "I resent Joel Embiid. Because of his style of play." (04:31)

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3. Broader Discussions on Mental Health and Public Figures

Shifting from team dynamics and player toughness, the hosts engage in a candid conversation about mental health, particularly focusing on public figures like Kanye West. They explore how fame and public scrutiny can exacerbate existing mental health issues, leading to erratic behavior and strained personal relationships.

• Stugotz on Mental Health Discourse: "But there are other factors and some of them are totally within the control of the individual." (39:37)

• John Amaechi on Professional Personas: "It's almost like severance, right, where you have to go to work and like leave your work self there..." (36:52)

Impact of Public Persona on Personal Identity:

The hosts discuss how maintaining a public persona can lead to a disconnect between one's true self and their celebrated image, often resulting in personal turmoil and mental health challenges.

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Notable Quotes

• Dan LeBatard: "He's perfectly fine in a suit on the bench. I want to see Joel Embiid go out there and eventually get hurt." (04:31)

• Stugotz: "It's like if they approached me to say, hey, what do you think of this Judy guy? I'd be like, yeah, go for it or don't." (12:33)

• John Amaechi: "Nothing good happens when your occupation becomes your definition." (37:00)

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Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough examination of the systemic issues within the New York Jets organization, highlighting how ownership decisions and internal dysfunction impede the team's success. Beyond the Jets' troubles, the hosts offer a thought-provoking discourse on what constitutes true toughness in sports and the significant impact of mental health on public figures. The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz continues to blend sports analysis with broader cultural conversations, offering listeners both entertainment and insightful commentary.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the moments in the provided transcript where each discussion point occurs.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Big smiles, rocking tunes and epic drinks Dutch Bros. Is all about. You choose from a variety of customizable handcrafted beverages like our Rebel energy drinks, coffees, teas and more. Download the Dutch Bros app for a free medium drink. Plus find your nearest shop, order ahead and start earning rewards offer valid for new app users only. Free medium drink Reward upon registration. 14 day expiration terms apply. See DutchBros.com Money decisions don't have to be either or.

[Stugotz]

With bank of America, they can be yes and like yes to sunny vacations and rainy day funds. Can our digital tools and guidance help you create the future you want? Yes. And help you keep enjoying today too. Do more with the bank that asks what would you like the power to do? Explore our tips and [e-mail] yes, and.

[Mike Ryan]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show.

[Amin Elhassan]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry. I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Mike Ryan]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Amin Elhassan]

I've done it.

[Mike Ryan]

And now here's the marching man to.

[Diana Russini]

Nowhere fat face and the habitual liar.

[John Amaechi]

I mean, I'm sorry.

[Stugotz]

We do all look the same. I recognize that.

[John Amaechi]

Oh, God damn. Oh, no, guys. All right, relax. I slipped up. The name starts with an A. Yeah, he ain't cooking today. The chat has been saying I've been very good today.

[Diana Russini]

Yeah, you're cooking.

[Stugotz]

You're cooking.

[John Amaechi]

Meech. What I would say.

[Stugotz]

Hold on.

[Diana Russini]

I want us to go for you.

[Mike Ryan]

You need some help from black friend.

[Diana Russini]

Yes, Mike is co opwind.

[John Amaechi]

Thank you. So, like, I think that was. That was very well said by you. But here in, like, the American sports lexicon, you describe somebody being soft. So I can go on like a three minute soliloquy describing exactly why somebody's soft, or I can just label them soft, which is a lot easier, more efficient. And it's why Stephen A. Smith is going to command $150 million.

[Stugotz]

It's not easier, though. It's. It's. You're right that it is easier, but it's not more accurate. It doesn't solve any problems for you, but it does make you feel better and more superior than the people you're talking about.

[John Amaechi]

No, it's just efficiency, soft. Let's say I got to fit it in 140 characters, and I can't fit what you said in 140 characters. And to Dan, I understand what you're doing, and this is a great discussion, but I think even you would concede when you watch the Ravens versus the Steelers. Let me take this example out to the extreme. You can see it, right? It looks different. Those teams look more physical. The game looks more violent. Those teams look tougher.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes. And I would say also that if you give me a great defense, it's generally going to look like that. And I would say in the case of Philadelphia, for example, you could tell me their offensive line is tougher, or I can tell you they're running back squats more than anyone in the league, and therefore, you know there's going to be some problems tackling him low when they have that offensive line. Also, that is very good and very strong. Like, very good and very strong can pass for tough.

[John Amaechi]

Yeah. Well, I posed this question to Diana. Like, have you considered that there's a correlation? They're a good defense because they're also very tough. Like Diana. Like, are there good defenses?

[Dan LeBatard]

Usually that's the ingredient, Mike. You're. You're. You are spot on. Like, the ingredient of a talented defense has to be toughness. There's no finesse in defense. No, no, no. Defense is dominating because they have a soft touch but good mechanics and they're good technically sound. Okay, those could be true. But it has to be blanketed by overall toughness.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, but.

[Dan LeBatard]

Because that's what the sport requires.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, but if I'm looking at Myles Garrett, you know, thrashing around on the field after getting poked in the eye Sunday, I can say, what is that? That's not tough. Now, I happen to know Myles Garrett is obviously a superior physical specimen, and I'm assuming at every turn that he is tough. But you guys are coming after Joel Embiid, and he's somebody that I assume is tough. He's playing through all sorts of injuries all time, and people are always questioning how much he cares.

[John Amaechi]

Miles came back in that game. But also, my problem with Joel Embiid is not that he is just like this unfortunate dude that gets injuries. I think I can understand that concept. I'm a huge Chelsea fan. Rhys James Haney's cooked. He's. He's going to try to run out there. He's going to pull his hammy. That's just his body type. I resent Joel Embiid. Because of his style of play. He's flopping around his condi. His lack thereof when it comes to conditioning. And also, I resent him for avoiding injury when he's perfectly fine in a suit on the bench. I want to see Joel Embiid go out there and eventually get hurt.

[Mike Ryan]

Perfectly fine.

[Dan LeBatard]

I love that you and I have such different issues in life. Like, you have this beautiful accent, honestly, and people think because of that, it sounds intellectual and perhaps in some cases, softer. Whereas, like, you know, I sound very New Jersey. It's the opposite. It's. It's gross and it's hard. Right? So it's like we both have to battle things separately, which is why in this Jet Ski piece that. That was published today that I worked on with Mike Silver and Zach Rosenblatt, I want you to do the audio version of the jets piece for me, because I think if I read it, jets fans are going to feel like I'm attacking them. But I feel like if Meech does it, they're going to go, okay, maybe things aren't so bad and we could give them some hope to balance out all the stuff that we uncovered about this team.

[Stugotz]

It's a deal. I'll do that. I'll do.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm going to get you right now the printout so that you can read some of this story. It's a. It is a banger again. She works for the Athletic. And the new store he's talking about inside Woody Johnson's Jets. It's the most dysfunctional place. Dysfunctional place imaginable. Imaginable. We'll get to that story in a second.

[Diana Russini]

You know, one of the funny things, Dan, when you talk about how people are labeled soft. When Meech was playing. I've heard this before. Like, he's kind of soft. Like, what makes you say that? He's always reading books.

[Stugotz]

Yes, I got that all the time.

[Diana Russini]

That's one of, like, the. In earlier years in the NBA, that was a red flag. Ron reads books, too. Just the first page, but it's always. There's always these weird kind of things that there was a player, I remember we were getting ready to acquire, and there was questions, right? There's questions. Should we. I don't know. What's he gonna do in the locker room? Whatever. And, like, the big thing was that, like, he dyed his hair or whatever. He dyed his beard or whatever. That was the big, whoa, whoa, what's going on here? And so it's funny how we've kind of evolved from that place, but we're still kind of using the. The language that me just talking about.

[Stugotz]

Yeah. It's just that even in the arguments that I've heard from everybody, there's so many accurate pieces to it that describe to me. And I don't, you know, of all the people in this studio, I don't know anything about these teams. But the way you've described when you got granular with it, I could completely understand the frustration. It's simply that to me, that frustration is lost when we start using words that are bound to trigger for no other reason than it's easy. And we kind of like the fact that Joel, this person who is otherwise untouchable, knows that we all think he's soft.

[Mike Ryan]

Juju, put it on the poll, please. Can you really be tough if you read books at LeBatard Show? Diana is very busy typing with one finger on her phone, texting, getting to all of the information. And I will tell you again, inside Woody Johnson's Jets. This time I'll say it better. I hope it's the most dysfunctional. I'm not going to say it better. It's the most dysfunctional place imaginable. I think the best detail in this is that they turned down a trade for Jerry Judy because Judy's Madden rating wasn't high enough. I think that's the best detail in this story. We're going to have Meech read some of the story. But Diana, do you think there's a better detail in this story than that one? It might involve Woody Johnson's teenage sons?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, there's a lot there. I think the Madden rating stands out the most because I do think players worry about Madden ratings, but I always looked at it as something just superficial, something that just played into their egos and just wanting to have a high rating and be among the best in the video game. But the fact that the owner of the jets used a rating to make a decision about whether or not he was going to trade Jerry Judy, that. That was stunning to me. And there are a lot of people around the league who knew about it. And this wasn't the first time that Woody had ever referenced a Madden rating in reference to jets players that he either had on his roster or perhaps were targeting in the off season. So, you know, this trade was obviously with Denver, and they were certainly blown away. Like, wait, you're not going to trade Jerry Duty because of a Madden rating? And guys, obviously Woody Johnson's not sitting there playing Madden at 78 years old. I mean, if he is, that's that's cool, but I don't think he is. So the people that are are his teenage sons. He has an 18 year old and a 16 year old son who, who he listens to a lot. And he's been part of conversations in the building. He's been in the draft room, he's in the locker room after games. The sons are part of it, which is normal by the way. Most owners have their children part of the operation, part of their business. But there's definitely a lot of people that have worked for the jets, the currently people that work for them right now as well, who say that the teenage sons have a lot of juice in the building and affect a lot of the decision making. So I'd say the Madden Nugget is certainly interesting. But to me, Dan, when I was collecting a lot of this intel, the story about Mike White really bothered me. And we dug on this Mike Silver, Zach Rosenblatt and I to just get a little bit information about how Woody Johnson was treating his players. So if you recall, Mike White was a bit of a, of a New York hero there when he took over as the starter and tried to get the jets in the playoffs. He ultimately wasn't able to do it and he's playing with broken ribs. I know we talked about toughness a few minutes ago and he was out there just battling through all of this. And the story goes, he came in the locker room and he went into the shower and right before he went into locker room, you know, he's throwing his helmet because he's upset, obviously. And Woody Johnson yells out into the locker room in front of his teammates, yeah, you should throw your helmet. You suck. The jets told me through a spokesperson that they later apologized. But that just tells you about the treatment of players in a building that I understand that owners want to win. I think we all get it. He's passionate, he wants results. But to understand what was going on there and to treat your players that way, I think that obviously is something that does not reflect very well on this jets organization. So that, that's just, you know, another part of this and obviously there's a lot more to it, but they're still.

[John Amaechi]

One of the best places to work in New Jersey. According to franchise sources.

[Mike Ryan]

Diana's got to go. She's got a heart out here. So unfortunately she's going to miss Meech reading some of her story. That's unfortun. Diana, we will talk to you next week. Okay?

[Dan LeBatard]

I can't wait, guys. Thanks for having me on. Meech. I'll be checking this out in a few.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you, Meech. We'll have you read it in a second. But you were shaking your head when she was talking about the teenage sons and how normal that is in football.

[Stugotz]

If you really want to win, your go to for a person who really wants to win is nepotism, for starters. And then nepotism with people who are too young to drink or vote. Yeah, those are the sources of information looking for. I'm not telling you that young people don't have anything to offer. That's not my point. But if what they're offering is, by the way, have you checked out the score that's in a video game for somebody, I've got to think there's better sources. I've got to. That's like asking me. It's like if they approached me to say, hey, what do you think of this Judy guy? And I'd be like, yeah, yeah, you know, go for it or don't. Yeah, that's the quality of insight you're getting from a 16 year old who's relying on a Madden score.

[John Amaechi]

Jerry. Judy, two first names. It's unfortunate that Diana had to go because, like, this is a bad week for the Jets. And I still think the saddest story about all of this is we all know openly, Diana's reported on it. Bill Belichick has open disdain for Woody Johnson. Hates the New York Jets. Right. Did you read the report that Bill Belichick circled around to the jets before he took the North Carolina job? Hey, this is your shot. That, to me, is the saddest detail around the Bill Belichick stuff. And it's not him just lurking in the background as he signs a player from Holy Cross.

[Mike Ryan]

I have two songs to play for you guys. Taylor has one on Bill Belichick, and we have a listener that has produced one to compete with Taylor's terrible song. But we're going to end this segment with John Amici reading from Diana's story.

[Stugotz]

A few weeks later, Douglas and his Broncos counterpart, George Patton were deep in negotiations for a trade that would have sent Judy to the jets and given a future hall of Fame quarterback, Aaron Rodgers another potential playmaker. The Broncos felt a deal was near. Then abruptly, it all fell apart in Denver. In Denver's executive offices, they could. They couldn't believe the reason why. Douglas told the Broncos that Johnson didn't want to make the trade because the owner felt Judy's player rating in Madden NFL, the popular video game, wasn't high enough. According to Multiple league sources. The Broncos ultimately traded the receiver to the Cleveland Browns last Sunday. Judy crossed the 1000 yard receiving mark for the first time in his career.

[Mike Ryan]

There's something like soothing about his voice. Like it washes over me like just soft ocean waves.

[Stugotz]

Most of my team tells me it's soporific. I send them to sleep.

[John Amaechi]

You do, but you should do the calm app.

[Mike Ryan]

Let's do something with John Amici and the calm app right now. I want to put something together now, but make sure it's got enough facial hair to be properly masculine.

[Stugotz]

That's right.

[Amin Elhassan]

Stagach, I want to tell you a story. I'm serious here. My wife and my two daughters, they begged me to buy a peloton. So I bought a peloton. And then I watched that peloton sit in my office and stare at me. So you know what I did one day I looked at it and so I decided to get off my ass and I jumped on the peloton because no one else was using it and I paid for it. I mean, so why not? Then I realized eventually that they bought it for me. And I got to tell you, way more challenging than I could have ever imagined. Peloton coaches are walking the walk. I love the coaches. I do The Grateful Dead one. Fantastic. They have a sub 3 hour marathon runner, military trained athlete, a former college basketball player, and so many other well rounded coaches on their team. All this experience really shows in their classes, which are never short of challenging, especially for me. So I jumped on it that first time. It was challenging, more challenging than I thought. And then I wanted to beat the bike and so I kept jumping on it and I absolutely love it. I. I mean, I'm the only one who uses it. But again, they got it for me. I mean, I had no idea. That's a little passive aggressive that you think. Find your push, find your power with [e-mail] you got to hear right now. My friends over at Simplisafe are extending their massive Black Friday deal for our Le Batard show listeners. Simplisafe is the home security I trust to keep my home and family safe. I've been telling you that for years. This is your last chance to protect your home at Simplisafe's lowest prices of the year. Simplisafe is a new way to protect your home that stops intruders before they break into your home. Old school systems only take action once someone is already inside your home. That's too late. Simplisafe's active guard. Outdoor protection changes the game by preventing crime before it even happens. Simplisafe is extending its massive Black Friday deal for our listeners this week only. You can take 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is your last chance to claim their best offer of the year. Head to SimpliSafe.com DLB to claim your discount and make sure your home is safe this season. Don't wait. This offer won't last long. Keep your home, your family and your peace of mind protected with Simplisafe. There's no safe like Simplisafe.

[John Amaechi]

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[Mike Ryan]

Don LeBatard Mike Ryan's in there and he's the one with a baby. He's the one who's gotta like worry about what the future is. And Mike ryan bet on DraftKings. Cause Mike Ryan bet on us. This is the bet you're afraid of doubling down on? Putting up a billboard in Edmonton. Stugats.

[John Amaechi]

I care more about Matthew Tkachuk than I do my daughter.

[Stugotz]

This is the Dan lebatar show with the Stugats. Well, the co host chair is vacant.

[Mike Ryan]

And Dan is losing patience.

[John Amaechi]

Stugatz is a big no show. Pto, pto, pto.

[Diana Russini]

Oh.

[John Amaechi]

The calendar has no indication of a December long vacation. He claims he lets someone know pto, pto, pto.

[Diana Russini]

When we finally hear from him after.

[John Amaechi]

Weeks of being MIA dead and company reunion, I'm gonna be out until May.

[Stugotz]

What?

[John Amaechi]

Skipper should have seen this coming.

[Diana Russini]

The audacity's mind numbing, but I guess.

[John Amaechi]

We'Ll just go with the flow. Pto, pto, pto.

[Mike Ryan]

Can you guys do me the favor of putting on the screen what's going on right now at our toy drive, when I was watching Rose sort of hula dance Hawaii dance on her back, not wearing her Santa beard? Not. No, Rose, this is not how we do a toy drive. Santa does not lay down on the job. I need you to get your beard on, and I need people to get to Dolphin Mall, get to Vivo, and conclude our toy drive today. Rose, how are you doing out there? Why are you not wearing your beard? This is not. You're very skinny for a Santa. How are you the skinniest Santa that we've had.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I was surprised to see Roy and Tony there because they told me.

[Mike Ryan]

We were on their staff, and they.

[Dan LeBatard]

Were like, oh, you have to be Santa. And when I heard that we're there, I'm like, what.

[Stugotz]

What am I doing here?

[Dan LeBatard]

So my beard.

[Mike Ryan]

Actually, I have hair, but it's not.

[Diana Russini]

A beer, so I can pretend that.

[Mike Ryan]

It'S a beer because I cannot find my beer. Okay, that's very good work for you. We'll come back to you in a second to see how the toy drive is going. Airplane over there. They've got the track.

[John Amaechi]

No, it's on the track of the Miami International Airport.

[Diana Russini]

No, but yeah, there's.

[Dan LeBatard]

There's an airplane, but we. We had a fan come and bring.

[John Amaechi]

Us toys, so we're happy.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay.

[John Amaechi]

We don't need to get too specific. Overrunning town for me.

[Mike Ryan]

All right. Hopefully it'll pick up. It's good. It's though, that we got a fan bringing a toy. That's a good, good start to the day. Let's see if we can make it. Hundreds of fans bringing hundreds of toys will come out to Rose again at Dolphin Mall in a second, but I want to play a couple of other songs here. Taylor's long past annoying me. Taylor likes singing awful songs, and we've given him wide, wide berth on liberty to sing these songs. Mike, what are you doing? He's there. Oh, no. All right, so a listener thinks that they can do a song better Than Taylor does a song. Yeah, well, impossible. I don't like Taylor's songs.

[John Amaechi]

He's a megastar. Internet chat agrees.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay.

[John Amaechi]

They're all saying.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, let's see what Amici's thoughts are on Taylor's song about Bill Belichick.

[John Amaechi]

He sees you when you're practicing. He knows your favorite plays. Your script. Script won't work on the first try. Cause he's got it all on tape. Oh, you better watch out. He's getting his guys. You better find out. That ball's PSI Belichick is coming to town.

[Stugotz]

I tell you, it's so. Your voice is so wonderfully restrained. It's amazing. It's like you treat the song with such reverence, despite the fact it's about bollocks. It's amazing.

[John Amaechi]

He's saying how talented. I couldn't hear what you said, but just thank you for the compliment.

[Stugotz]

You're welcome. You're most welcome.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, let's pop his clogs. Get him out of here. Get him out of here.

[John Amaechi]

Thank you, Balance.

[Mike Ryan]

Let's see what we have here. From a listener. I don't know what this is about. Chris, do you believe this is better or worse than what Taylor made for us?

[John Amaechi]

I'm gonna go with worse.

[Mike Ryan]

We have to.

[John Amaechi]

24 was rough.

[Mike Ryan]

The dolphins are done.

[John Amaechi]

McDaniel tried his best. Just wasn't enough bright spots. They had a few and Johnny was one. Tyree can't do it all then.

[Mike Ryan]

Alrighty.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, that's bad.

[John Amaechi]

A little over modulated.

[Diana Russini]

I think he needs, like over modulated an engineer or something to mix it down.

[John Amaechi]

Needs more tail.

[Mike Ryan]

Chris, you got to use better judgment if you can't. Like, first of all, those songs have to be called Taylor Made and that every song we play needs to be better than whatever's Taylor's made. Like every single song.

[John Amaechi]

It's impossible.

[Mike Ryan]

It's not.

[John Amaechi]

Sometimes around here, good is bad. Bad is good. Like it's. You know. Are you a vip? I'm a vip. You a vip? Always.

[Mike Ryan]

May I continue? Please? I want to play more Stephen A. Smith sound for you because he's talking about Miami. And I do want to get to this Tyreek Hill story because he set the Internet ablaze some with something yesterday that I was genuinely confused about. Its punctuation and whether or not he meant something else. But here is Stephen A. Smith's point of view about women in Miami at egirls.

[Stugotz]

Xo.

[Diana Russini]

Stephen A. Which city in the US has the best looking women and why is it Miami? Well, first of all, you answered the question. It's Miami. Miami is special. It's special. And I'm not just talking about the city of Miami. I'm talking about the outskirts. I'm talking about going towards Coral Gables. I'm talking about South Beach. I'm talking about, you know, near Fort Lauderdale. I'm talking about Coral Gables. Like I said before, you know, it's bad in Miami when one of the finest women you ever saw in your life is at a gas station pumping gas in Miami. That's when you know this place is different. Like, different. I'm talking about the kind of beauty that stops traffic. Cats getting in car crashes because they screeching, screeching on their brakes, causing three car accidents and stuff like that. Because you. And then the accidents happen, and then people like, what the hell is wrong with you? And they all look over at the gas station and go like this. Oh, I understand, man. Miami's like that.

[Stugotz]

Okay. Super creepy. Incredibly creepy. That is. That is incredibly. I mean, talk about giving Child Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang vibes right there.

[John Amaechi]

I get the wrong. I don't know what that's supposed to be. I know what he's talk. I know what I know. Talking about. I don't know what you're talking about.

[Stugotz]

The way he moved his fingers when he was talking at the beginning, as if he's just about finished licking them after eating chicken. That is gross. If I wasn't already gay, I'd be gay after watching that.

[Mike Ryan]

I want to talk some more about Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. I mean, when you came in here today, did anyone comment on your face? Because it felt like everyone noticed. Only when I said something, because I'm looking at you, you look like you're in pain, and the left side of your face looks like it's swelling more as the show goes on.

[Diana Russini]

Well, as you can tell, Dan, I've done a great job of kind of angling my body away from the camera so that all they see is the good side. Now I have a good side.

[John Amaechi]

I'll flip around the other way for.

[Mike Ryan]

A second, but you've got some of your, too. Some of your teeth look like they still have blood on them. Your mouth looks like it's bloody.

[Diana Russini]

Does it?

[Mike Ryan]

Yes.

[Diana Russini]

That's a bloody mess.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, you mentioned that.

[Stugotz]

Nice.

[Diana Russini]

Back to the well.

[Mike Ryan]

So on the way in, Amin. I'm sorry, Meech.

[John Amaechi]

Jesus. Wow.

[Stugotz]

What is happening around here?

[John Amaechi]

It's the ami thing. Like that Ami sound. It's a tricky one.

[Stugotz]

That is the lamest of excuses.

[Mike Ryan]

No, wait. No. With me it is. With me it is. I think they look exactly alike.

[Stugotz]

This is what I thought.

[Mike Ryan]

That. And look, let's stop hiding. Okay? When I see a mean. I often see Meech. When I see Meech, I often see Amin. I don't know why that's happening. Sometimes I see Roy.

[John Amaechi]

But all three of them. Racism. That's all that's happening. I'm just an out and out racist.

[Stugotz]

Out in the open. That's what we need.

[Mike Ryan]

So we. You've always said that. You've always said that.

[John Amaechi]

Don't I? Behind the hood is on the table and it's a race card.

[Mike Ryan]

But we were driving in and on the beach because of what Stephen A. Smith says and because just there are a lot of beautiful people. There was a man running shirtless with six pack abs. And I'm like, there it is, Meech. All over South Beach.

[Stugotz]

And who noticed him first, by the way?

[Mike Ryan]

I did.

[John Amaechi]

Are you saying Miami is special?

[Mike Ryan]

It's so special.

[Stugotz]

It's not special. The man looked like a sociopath.

[John Amaechi]

Miami is special.

[Diana Russini]

He had jogger or Stephen A.

[Stugotz]

You know, what is the Christian Bale.

[John Amaechi]

In the film with the American Psycho?

[Stugotz]

The obsession over business cards. Right.

[John Amaechi]

Yeah. American Psycho.

[Stugotz]

He looked like he was running, listening to Huey Lewis in the news, waiting for the next person to approach him who he felt threatened by to murder them. Yeah, that's what he looked like. There's nothing attractive about him.

[John Amaechi]

He looked so hot in that movie too.

[Mike Ryan]

This person. This person also looked hot. Oily. Oily.

[Stugotz]

And yeah, it wasn't sweat. He clearly had baby oiled himself before he left the house.

[Mike Ryan]

That's correct.

[Stugotz]

Gross.

[John Amaechi]

Who doesn't? Special.

[Mike Ryan]

And the other thing that it led to a conversation on. Can you trust anybody who has 6.

[Stugotz]

Pack abs and doesn't have a 6 pack for their job?

[Mike Ryan]

Right. So not a professional athlete. That's taking care of their body in order to make money. Yes. That's a good qualifier. It's a good asterisk. Because I'd maintain if you care that much about that, there are other things that you're not caring about that I need you to care about.

[Diana Russini]

Like climate change.

[John Amaechi]

There's genetics. Some people don't have to work out. I have my friend, College Mike. That guy drinks a lot of beer.

[Mike Ryan]

No way that anyone has a six pack without exercising. That can't be.

[John Amaechi]

He doesn't. He also doesn't eat for joy. He just eats. He eats for fuel.

[Mike Ryan]

I just. I don't believe that. You can have a six pack without exercising.

[John Amaechi]

I'm have my friend College Mike send me a picture.

[Mike Ryan]

Put it on the poll at Lebatard show. Can you have 6 pack abs if you don't exercise? And can you ever truly trust somebody who has six pack?

[John Amaechi]

Doesn't it show incredible discipline, Dan? Like on the opposite side of the coin, it's like, look how much I can lock in on something.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, agree, do it. No, agree much.

[Stugotz]

I can lock in on something completely immaterial and unimportant. But imagine this segment is going to descend into your listeners just sending in thirst traps. I can see what's going to happen now and I'm here for it.

[Mike Ryan]

I would say to you that if you care about that, that obsessively, there are probably other things in your life that you're not caring about. It's obviously a blanket generalization. But if that's something that's that important to you, if you're a bodybuilder, I'm going to think the same thing. Like, if you're a bodybuilder, who's doing that. That obsessively clear. I would. I think of bodybuilding almost as a body dysmorphia. Really?

[John Amaechi]

Yeah. No, I often you're talking natty or not natty. Take care of their bodies. And I'm like, they're the problem.

[Stugotz]

Agreed.

[John Amaechi]

I got it right. That person is clearly a psycho.

[Stugotz]

You can do too much, you know. Plus half the time you look at these people, they don't look like human beings anymore. It's odd to me. It's odd to me. I don't want your skin to be like paper. That's odd. It's an odd sensation to be with somebody who has no fat whatsoever.

[John Amaechi]

Oh, yeah, like leathery skin. Cushion for the pushing. You're talking about plenty of.

[Stugotz]

That's one of those things. Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

He was not talking about cushion for the Pushing. I don't know why Cushion for the Pushing made an appearance other than cushion rhymes with pushing.

[John Amaechi]

He basically said zagaki afterwards, though.

[Stugotz]

I don't know what that means. I don't know what I want.

[Mike Ryan]

Can you guys get for me, please, the sound from the Kanye west deposition? Because I do want to get to that in a second.

[John Amaechi]

Why'd you do this?

[Mike Ryan]

And I also want to get to this Tyreek Hill tweet that was out yesterday that I keep promising to get to, that I have not gotten to. But let's just. This deposition was amazing and I can't. I don't know how much else here was as amazing as this? But let's hear this.

[John Amaechi]

I see that you're looking down at probably a device. Are you on your phone?

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes.

[John Amaechi]

Okay, so I'm going to ask, as a ground rule, that you not be on your phone during the exam. Can we agree to that?

[Mike Ryan]

Why? Is that legally what it should be?

[John Amaechi]

I'm not going to advise you as to the law. That's why your lawyers are here. But that is my ground rule for the deposition, consistent with California law, that you need to be present, focused on the examination, and not on a device.

[Mike Ryan]

Due to my mental geniusness, in order to focus on this bull, I need.

[John Amaechi]

To be on a phone.

[Mike Ryan]

You guys cut that short. He then put a mask on and it was a wrestling mask, and he started doing it that way. And you guys said, I ruined things. And you're smiling happier than I've seen anybody smile at Meadowlark Media.

[John Amaechi]

Mental geniusness is great. While he's wearing a hat that says rooted in ignorance.

[Stugotz]

It's so sad, though. I feel so. I mean, he's a man, he has his own agency. I get that. But I feel so sad that you can be so unloved or so exploitable that no one around you is willing to forcefully be there to help you, not embarrass yourself publicly, not humiliate yourself, not make you more liable for the things that are gonna happen to you. It just seems incredible to me that no one loves you. This is the same as that scene in President Trump's first term when he had toilet paper on his shoes. To me, it's that again. I saw that. And regardless of the fact that I don't like him, I felt sad for him because he's surrounded by people paid to be around him, none of whom felt enough about him to stop him from embarrassing himself. And here it is again, my genius. Ness. Ness.

[John Amaechi]

And one of whom is his lawyer. You would think that you would have said something, right?

[Stugotz]

Especially if you, I'm paying you. You have one job. How about you prevent me from being more of a liability to myself and maybe even not humiliate myself? Wow.

[Mike Ryan]

I've read some stuff recently about. Because one of the things that he said, I'm the richest black man in the history of the world. As he continued to talk on some things that can almost easily be clinically, you know, diagnosed from afar as something in the realm of manic or bipolar. The way that he cratered Adidas as a sneaker business because of the crazed anti Semitism and other things that he was doing. And he was so valuable to Adidas. I saw that they gave a lifetime contract to Damian Lillard. But go read. I'm forgetting where it is that I saw it. A story about the way that Kanye. The way Adidas had to backpedal from the size of his brand and name and everything else in a way it never wanted to, because he was responsible for their entire ability to do business in the sneaker realm because of how giant his brand is. And he's been that. I've seen him be some form of that since getting punked by Ashton Kutcher on mtv. Like where. Where his arrogance as an early producer, before he was even any of this, was something that. To marvel at in his early 20s.

[John Amaechi]

I mean, there's video of his documentary where he's there, like, making beats in the lab. And like, you see the. The pure ability that he has to create music. And then you see throughout that documentary where he turns the character into his reality. Right. And that's the part that's sad, is you kind of lose yourself in that. In that creation. But yet the ability is so amazing that it gets lost in translation.

[Mike Ryan]

It's funny that you should mention that, because one of the things that I couldn't believe where it is that people get lost in their character. I'd like to have this conversation with Stephen A. Smith, because I think it's happened to him some. But one of the places that. On South Beach Sessions, I noticed it just this week with Lewis Black. When Lewis Black performs, he doesn't know that his fingers are moving like that because he's putting on a costume. He's been doing it for so long that he's putting on a piece of his identity and then getting out of that identity so that he doesn't actually become that. And so one of the things I enjoyed about talking to Louis Black was just seeing the other side of him, because it is. He was talking about it like if you would put on a robot costume and that when he's done with his performance, if he sees video of it, he does not know that he was moving his fingers like that. That he doesn't have any. Any awareness of it. The thing that sports television. I've told you guys this with Max Kellerman and all the places where people talk too much, including here, where it distorts me, too. If you talk this much for a living, you become Colin Cowherd. Colin Cowherd becomes some form of what it is that he's trying to do, or he has to Consciously take that off and leave it at work in a, in a locker and go home, because the character will envelop you if everywhere you go, that's all that people are seeing. Let's like, what Stephen A. Smith's life has become over the last 15 years is an insanity. It's a true insanity where he is just delighted at how he ends up in all of these amazing power brokering places with those people desperately wanting to be around him because he's a cartoon character on television.

[John Amaechi]

It's almost like severance, right, where you have to go to work and like leave your work self there and then go back home and be able to be a normal human.

[Stugotz]

Listen, nothing good happens when you're, when your occupation becomes your definition, when, when what you do becomes who you are. Nothing good comes from that. You guys have talked about this with athletes that finish their career and then spectacularly go off the rails. Whether it's, it's drugs or other substances, whether it's gambling, whether it's sex, whatever it is, they lose themselves. Because what happens if you've defined yourself for a period of time by the fact that you are beloved on television, or you're a cartoon character on television or whatever else, or you're a genius with music and then all of a sudden you find yourself in front of a lawyer who doesn't give a shit about your creative skills. They just want you to answer some questions. It creates a schism. It doesn't have to be a pathology. I'm not suggesting it's some kind of psychological disorder. I think that's often, we often pathologize this stuff. But I still think it's sad that you can be that successful and have managed to reject everyone who might love you a little bit enough to challenge you out of your sphere.

[Mike Ryan]

You think it's irresponsible of me to diagnose Kanye after the last three years as some sort of, some on, on a, on a spectrum. He's behaving in a way that suggests this isn't just fame and arrogance.

[John Amaechi]

You're not diagnosing him. Like he'll reveal that.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, he said, but, but even, even if he didn't reveal that, though, you don't feel comfortable with that assessment based just on the behavior. Like when you're saying to everybody, some form, let's look. I saw this happen to my brother. A lot of weird stuff happened with my brother at the end. And one of them was this, like, where the mania gets to such a point that you feel like you're the biggest and most important person in the world. But much as I said with Ricky Williams, who had was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder. And that disorder is you go to the grocery store and you think everyone's looking at you. But when he went to the grocery store, everybody was indeed looking at him. If you're predisposed to a certain arrogance here and then you spike because of your brain chemistry and stuff to a place where is that genius? Because he's been rewarded at every turn when you can crater Adidas with your thoughts.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, listen, I'm not suggesting that he doesn't have traits of people who've got real psychopathies, real problems. I'm simply. And nor even that you can recognize it when you see it in your family members, these behavior behaviors. What I'm saying is it does a real disservice to the millions and millions of people out there who have similar disorders but don't behave in such aberrant ways. That's something to consider, right? We try and say this is because of your diagnosis when there are millions of people out there suffering similarly or sometimes even more acutely who don't behave in these aberrant ways.

[Mike Ryan]

That's what Mike Ryan used to say when I was talking about all the Antonio Brown malfeasance. And I'm like, how is that not something that's happening? That seems to be brain issues. And Mike was saying, well, no, there are plenty of people, nevermind brain issues. There are plenty of people who have any assortment of depressive tendencies or otherwise who aren't behaving in sports or anywhere else like Antonio Brown.

[Stugotz]

And it is different if you're in the spotlight, if you're in sports, they're exacerbating factors. So I'm not suggesting it's not a contributor. I suppose my thing here is I don't want people to think that they do that thing where they think because of. It's because of the diagnosis that this person behaves in these reprehensible ways. That is a contributing factor. But there are other factors and some of them are totally within the control of the individual. It isn't just that, oh, how unfortunate your brain chemistry was, was effed up when you were born and now you're in this tough position. It's. You also made some terrible choices and you're now doing things purposefully and relying on the fact that we're going to let things slide because of your diagnosis. And I don't think we should. We work in companies sometimes where people say Things like, well, you know, the reason that we've got so many bullies in our environment is because, you know, these really clever people are on the spectrum. They'll say, and what an incredible disservice to people who might have asd, Autism Spectrum Disorder, to imagine that because you have this, you're a terrible person who's awful to other people. No, these people are who have asd. That is not the same thing, Dan.

[Diana Russini]

This is like the old. And bear with me, I know the messenger isn't the best, but it's like the old Bill Cosby, stand up. Where he says, so what are you laughing at?

[Stugotz]

No, it's just my face was showing and your name was showing underneath it.

[Diana Russini]

So the old Bill Cosby, stand up. He said the guy tells him, hey, have cocaine. And he's like, what? What does cocaine do? He says, well, it intensifies your personality. And Cosby says, well, what if you're an asshole, right? And it's the same thing. It's like your personality is your personality and then what you're afflicted with influences some of that, but at the end of the day it brings it out. The other thing is, and John, I wonder if you see this a lot where people, because they're either on the spectrum or just self diagnosing, they take it as license to be an asshole. It's not just you're an asshole, it's like, oh no, it's because of this I can act any way I want.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, I've spoken to some teachers actually in schools, universities and high schools in the States and in Europe, and they are dealing with kids who have either self diagnosed or been told by their parents they have a certain disorder and therefore them being rude in class or speaking out when they shouldn't be, or not participating is somehow like they have license to do it. Now. I think it's, it's really problematic. It's why, it's why, you know, the advice for psychologists is that we don't diagnose from a distance. It's really tempting because you see these constellations of behaviors and you think, I've recognized this. I've seen this before. But I just think agency, you're going to give people a chance to say, what part are you playing in this? Before we kind of throw away everything else and say, yeah, it's not your fault.

[John Amaechi]

I love this show because this is a great segment on mental health. This is a photo of my friend College Mike's abs. He doesn't work out really at all. He drinks a lot of beer. He's a great hang. But look, you see that? Let's get rid of that lower third right there. Let's see these abs pop there. This guy's just gifted.

[Stugotz]

He has an AB.

[John Amaechi]

No, no, no. That's six.

[Stugotz]

He has a pair of ABs.

[John Amaechi]

I counted six. Maybe it's a lot lighting in there, but Dan, you can see this guy has abs and he doesn't really care about.

[Stugotz]

This is where you can tell the straight guy standards are entirely different. But really? Yeah, I mean, you could.

[John Amaechi]

There's the definition. Dan, your thoughts?

[Mike Ryan]

Put it on the poll, please. Juju at Le Batard Show. Can you be someone who has an eight pack with no exercise whatsoever, drinking beer like Mike's friend?

[Diana Russini]

I thought you were gonna ask to put on the poll. Does college Mike have abs?

[Stugotz]

Because he does not.

[Mike Ryan]

And also that we all do. We all have abs.

[Stugotz]

Well, yes, mine are covered. But he has a pair of abs that are exposed.

[John Amaechi]

No, no. I counted sex.

[Mike Ryan]

I also counted two. Chris, were you laughing? I saw you laughing during that segment. I think you and I were laughing at the same thing. I'm not totally sure, but you can hear that Amin's lip is fat.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes, it sounds ridiculous.

[Mike Ryan]

All of his analysis. I want him to give the the most serious analysis. But also I want him to go viral with that sound on audio that. That makes it seem like his heavy tongue is slathered on every word he's speaking.

[Diana Russini]

Ridiculous.

[John Amaechi]

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