The Big Suey: The Pilloried Pioneer (feat. Undersized Nickel, Domonique Foxworth)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

The Big Suey: The Pilloried Pioneer (feat. Undersized Nickel, Domonique Foxworth)

Date: December 11, 2025

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Episode Overview

Broadcast live from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this episode of "The Big Suey" dives into heated conversations about modern sports journalism, the tension between self-promotion and integrity, football nostalgia, and the latest scandals at Michigan football. Featuring guest Domonique Foxworth (the “undersized nickel”), the show delivers its usual blend of irreverence, debate, and introspection on celebrity, credibility, and the changes sweeping both sports and media.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Journalism, Self-Promotion, and the Pilloried Pioneer

• Backdrop: Pablo Torre is the subject of "an avalanche of criticism" about his perceived self-congratulatory stance as a journalist, with much of the flak coming from fellow commentators and social media.

• Self-Celebration vs. Integrity:

  • Dominique Foxworth offers a candid critique, arguing that the heart of journalism should be about "the truth" rather than the journalist as celebrity:

    "The story is about the truth. The story is not about the person who has found the truth." (08:33)

  • He warns Pablo:

    "No one ever is made to look good by being the one celebrating themselves... you’ll never win if you're out there telling everyone they’re not as good as me." (16:00)

• Pablo’s Defense:

  • Pablo acknowledges the criticism, explaining that self-promotion is often necessary in today’s media landscape to cut through the noise:

    "I need to draw attention to the work by being out there talking about it with my own voice." (23:34)

  • Meta-moment: The team mock Pablo’s voice and his tendency to trumpet his own reporting.

• Humor & Memorable Exchanges:

  • Foxworth suggests the only way Pablo could make it work is to have "a cooler voice" (16:15), to which Pablo responds with a bad impression.
  • When pressed for judgment, Foxworth admits:

    "I cannot do what Pablo does... Nick Wright absolutely cannot do what Pablo does either." (24:51)

• Takeaway: The show gives a nuanced look at how modern journalism is evolving, balancing credibility, transparency, and the burdens of digital self-marketing.

2. Philip Rivers’ NFL Comeback Rumors

• Why It's Back in the News: Speculation that Rivers, several years retired, might return to start an NFL game.
• Foxworth’s Take:
  • Skeptical about anyone returning after years off, noting Rivers’ already-limited athletic upside:

    “Getting off the couch, man, ya’ll know how hard it is?” (10:01) “I don't think it's gonna go all that well. His career [ended] not because he was tired of playing. Because people were tired of paying him to play.” (10:56 & 11:00)

  • He highlights how defensive evolutions make an old QB’s adjustment much harder.
• Pablo & Mike Ryan Echo Concerns:
  • Mike:

    “I think he's about to find out how much athleticism he had.” (12:16)

  • The panel reflects on the themes of age, hope, and the athletic gap created by retirement.

3. Michigan Football Scandals & Journalism’s Crucial Role

• Summary of Events:
  • Michigan’s program is engulfed in a series of scandals: recruiting violations, illegal scouting, multiple staff arrests (seven since Harbaugh’s hiring), and the recent firing (and subsequent custody) of a staff member.
• Le Batard’s Framing:

  "Michigan has an assortment of junk around its program and it’s all administrator based. What are you comfortable deducing... given the details we have?" (26:55)

• Foxworth’s Nuanced Analysis:
  • Stresses that speculation is rampant and only credible journalism can cut through chaos and damage.
  • Connects this to why investigative journalism is so vital, especially as AI and misinformation blur facts.
  • He tempers condemnation of Michigan, suggesting these issues are endemic to many big programs:

    "I tend to believe that people in general aren’t very different from place to place... the incentives don't lie with following these rules." (30:47, 33:05)

  • The team highlights how winning programs often enjoy protection from scrutiny—until they don’t.
  • Mike Ryan:

    "It is a sad reality, Dominique, that if he beats Ohio State, maybe this never sees the light of day." (45:52)

• Wider Discussion: The hosts rattle off comparable coaching scandals (Patino, Petrino, Ime Udoka, etc.), debating which is the “most memorable crime of morality.”

4. Personal Anecdotes and Comic Relief

• Foxworth’s “Undersized Nickel” story:
  • Dominique recalls being the focus of an opponent’s run game:

    “I had a game... where I was hyperventilating after the game... they had a blocker on, you try to shed the blocker and all you have is one arm... for most people, they can't run through an arm... (Steven Jackson) didn’t even notice that thing was there. My arm... felt like hell.” (48:10)

• Rich banter about “old guys rooting for old guys” and enduring pain in football.
• Judges’ table: Zaslow called upon to rule if he could do Pablo’s job.
  • Verdict: "No, with prejudice. I cannot. And... Nick Wright absolutely cannot do what Pablo does either." (24:51)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Dominique Foxworth:

  "The story is about the truth. The story is not about the person who has found the truth." (08:33)

• Pablo Torre:

  "I need to draw attention to the work by being out there talking about it with my own voice." (23:34)

• Dominique Foxworth’s Honest Critique:

  "No one ever is made to look good by being the one celebrating themselves." (16:00)

• Mike Ryan:

  "I think he's about to find out how much athleticism he had." (on Rivers’ comeback) (12:16)

• Dominique Foxworth, on Michigan culture:

  "What it's always come down to in my experience is... winning and success trumps just about everything else." (33:05)

• Dan Le Batard, on moral scandals:

  "Sports Illustrated reported the women were saying ‘Roll Tide’ and Mike Price was shouting ‘oh it’s rollin.’” (39:22)

• Pablo Torre, on self-doubt:

  "I don't think I've had a better year professionally in my life — or felt dumber at the same time." (25:31)

• Domonique Foxworth, on pain in football:

  "Trying to tackle Steven Jackson... felt like a lawnmower ran over my arm." (47:54)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• Debate over Journalism & Self-Promotion: 04:35 – 23:44
• Philip Rivers Comeback Conversation: 09:56 – 14:12
• Michigan Football/Journalism Nexus: 26:55 – 34:38
• Comparing Infamous Program Scandals: 38:29 – 42:45
• Foxworth’s Painful Memory as Undersized Nickel: 47:54

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Tone and Style

The episode is classic Le Batard: free-wheeling, sharp, and self-aware, balancing earnest commentary on sports journalism’s evolution with trademark humor and candid personal stories. Foxworth, ever insightful, toggles between genuine reflection and quick-witted jabs, while Pablo oscillates between defensive self-awareness and the ambition to reshape how journalism is valued.

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a lively, meta-narrative on what it means to “do journalism” in the age of personality, while taking listeners through NFL nostalgia and the latest college football messes. Listeners get a front-row seat to both the shifting landscape of sports media and the timeless absurdities of fame, ego, and athletic pain. Whether it's debates about Michigan's rot, Rivers’ comeback illusions, or the semantics of self-congratulation, "The Big Suey" continues to prove that sports talk can mean much more than the game.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

Wow.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

Chris, do you know what goes great with Smirnoff?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes, but I'm really talking about the game day fit. The style's gotta match the vibe.

[Pablo Torre]

Fair enough.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right, here's the deal.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Game day is everything.

[Dan Le Batard]

And that's exactly why your fit has to match the occasion. Starting this December, Smirnoff is giving fans 21 and over the chance to score limited edition Smirnoff commission merchandise from some of today's top creators and including Kayla Jones, Gavin, Matthew and Aleli Mae. Here's the kicker. One lucky fan will take home the grand prize, a trip to the biggest game of the offseason. Plus, one fan will win a Laylie May's one of one game day jacket.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Wow.

[Dan Le Batard]

The merch will be dropped on select dates from December to January 21st. And it's all courtesy of what brand? That's right, Chris. Fans 21 and over can head to Smirnoff Socials to learn how to sign up. And don't forget to grab a bottle of Smirnoff vodka, number 21 at your local retail. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff number 21, vodka distilled from grain, 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please do not share with anybody under legal drinking.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Hate Smirnoff.

[Dan Le Batard]

No purchase necessary. Must be legal. US resident, 21 or older. Sweepstake starts 12:15, 2025 at 12:00am Eastern and ends 1:23, 2026 at 11 hours, 59 minutes and 59 seconds p.m. eastern. See official rules at program website.

[Dominique Foxworth]

This episode is brought to you by NBA on Prime. This Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern, it's the Emirates NBA Cup Championship Game on Prime. This year's quest for the cup has been building the championship game live from Las Vegas. Not a Prime member sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. The Emirates NBA Cup Championship game this Tuesday at 8:30 Eastern, only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

Chevrolet Together let's drive.

[Pablo Torre]

Welcome to the Big Suey presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to.

[Dominique Foxworth]

The other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the the only difference seems.

[Pablo Torre]

To be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Roy]

I've done it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And now here's the marching man to.

[Pablo Torre]

Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar. There appear to be some things happening around here that are turning against Pablo Torre, and I'm sorry to say that Dominique Foxworth has now arrived armed with I stand with Nick Wright is what he texted me before we started this segment. He was also doing something and I didn't realize it until he started doing it. He also has a great voice that sort of makes me feel a little bit impotent when he really says baqua when he goes and gets the bavaqua. Put it on the poll at Le Batard show. Is it extra fun to say the name Bavaqua because he did it in a in a fashion that made me feel he was going for centuries actual effortlessly. Go ahead and. Go ahead and hit the people with your bavaqua.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's just a great word. It's a great.

I have so much stuff to talk about with you guys. But before we get to all of that, I want to start with the first thing is hello Valerie. And from there I'd like to say what you guys are doing here is incredibly impressive. Like all jokes aside, the two different locations, a third location. I did a live show after games on Sunday from a few different locations. It's so hard. I we give all the tech people a hard time and make fun of them all the time, but this is really kind of cool and impressive.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you for saying so, Dominique, because I am proud and I mentioned this earlier in the week, moved by the fact that we get to celebrate in New York the holiday party here this week as part of everything that we're doing that has Pablo coming under an avalanche of criticism today. Wozny Lambry is tweeting, I don't know what Your thoughts are. Pablo, He's. He's a journalist. Yes.

[Pablo]

Is laughing a knowing laugh? Oh, no. I once did. Can I. Can I. I love Waz. Waz and I have done any number of currently, now legal drugs together. He's great. He's great.

[Pablo Torre]

That is snitch.

[Pablo]

It's legal.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That's just say we're friends. We hung out like.

[Pablo]

No, no, no. Because the context. The context for our friendship is intimate. It is intimate.

[Pablo Torre]

You can't snitch on an. That's not. You're describing.

[Pablo]

I'm breaking the news. I don't think I'm breaking the news. That was Amin. Forgive me.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Don't bring Amin into it.

[Pablo]

Amin and Woz and I go back how many years?

[Pablo Torre]

How did Amin get dragged into this?

[Pablo]

You guys don't know Woz. And Amin knows Waz better than anybody. And I know.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I know was. I know was incredibly well.

[Roy]

Not.

[Pablo Torre]

Have you ever smoked with them?

[Pablo]

Have you done legal drugs with them?

[Dominique Foxworth]

There's.

[Pablo Torre]

Tweets, the following quote, I just don't think the job of investigative reporting is some impossible feat. I think getting big media companies to pay for it is impossible. I watch every episode of Pablo show, and he deserves all the glory he's gotten for making it a success. But the idea somebody as talented as Nick couldn't be really good at the job of investigative reporter if he dedicated himself to it just doesn't pass the smell test.

[Pablo]

Look, I love Wass. I don't want to do the thing where I just say, like, you've never done it. And then you say, I did it once. And then I say, I apologize. Because that's happened. And it's happening on Twitter still today with Nick. My thing with all of this is, Dan, you make me be so unlikable. You do. You make me be so unlikable. The job of investigative reporter is a job that largely takes place in ways that no one can see. That's kind of the definition of it. And so I'm not saying that Nick or Woz or Dominique wouldn't be great at it. If that's what you want to do. If that's what we're doing now, who's hypothetically good at this? What I'm merely saying is that there are skills like lawyer. Dominique, hold on. Like, Nick would be an amazing lawyer. And I have said that to him. And I will say that for anyone to hear, journalist and lawyer are not the same job. And I will explain this very briefly.

[Dominique Foxworth]

A.

[Pablo]

A lawyer will take a case that they know isn't true. That's the job. Argue to the best of your ability in defense or in prosecution of something that you have agreed to do, because that is what your job is. A journalist is unfortunately constrained by this annoying thing called fact checking. And so the reason I'm needling Nick on Twitter, and the reason why I am needling everybody who brings this up and the reason why Dominique's putting his in his hand is because it's hard to be the guy who's like, you gotta get this stuff right and be challenged. And if you don't know what that's like all of the time, it's easy to say, oh, I could do that. It's a different thing to actually do it under threat of legal action perpetually.

[Pablo Torre]

Now imagine if Pablo said what he just said in a voice that wasn't annoying.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. I mean, Dan does a really good job of making people seem annoying. I think that I would say this. Pablo is like, I feel like there's a lot of bit happening, and then we get really close to the truth. And I can feel that you are very genuine in what you're saying. I'll give you some honest advice as a friend, on or off the show, is that you said a lot of the work that goes into it goes unseen. I think that's what makes you unlikable, is that you want people to see it. And maybe this is the future of journalism, where the journalist becomes the celebrity and the journalist has a show named after themselves and pounds their chest and says, look at what I did. It's so hard. No one else can do this. But I think that part of what is we all love or the people who do love and appreciate journalism is the story is about the truth. The story is not about the person who has found the truth. And maybe again, this is me being an old man in the future of being a good journalist. And in order to get the funding and the credibility, if we're losing faith in old institutions that you build up that reputation around an individual who people will trust and put money into. But don't pretend like you can't put yourself out there as a pioneer and pretend as if pioneers aren't going to get pilloried. Like, that's the thing that's confusing to me is we all know this to be the case. And I don't know, like, I suspect I'm someone who is supremely confident, and I believe I can do just about everything. And I suspect that Nick Wright is the same way. But I don't think That I could do investigative journalism cuz I don't like talking to people that damn much. So what you're doing is great work. It's hard to do. Maybe Nick could do it, maybe Nick can't. The fact that we're dwelling on it is irrelevant. The fact that you are like, look, I did this, give me an award. I think that's what makes you kind of hateable, honestly. And I love you. I don't hate you. I recognize the work is good and I've given a justification for why. It's the reason why you have to go about it in this new media way. But it's not going to be enjoyed because people are going to look at it and be like, hey, are you a journalist or are you a celebrity? And if you want to be both, maybe that's the future of it, I don't know. But we can go back to doing show and bits. But that's my honest assessment of what's happening.

[Mike]

Dominique, you are two years younger than Philip Rivers. How's this going to go?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Poorly, I think. I don't know, man. Like there's no way to argue that this could go. I think that we see Aaron Rodgers right now, who has not taken an extended break, we see how he wants to avoid getting hit. I assume the same thing will happen for Philip Rivers. It's going to be really hard. And he's right. His athleticism, never been it. He's never had a super strong army. If there's a quarterback who could produce from a diminished capacity, maybe it's someone like him who's a smart player and never really relied on rocket arm strength. However, getting off the couch, man, y' all know how hard is it? How hard it is. Any of you who've been on the sideline of a college football game, a high level high school football game, recognize that shit is fast, man. And I don't think you can get off the couch and just start cooking like that. So we'll see. I don't think it's gonna go all that well. And his, his career not because he was tired of playing. Cause people was tired of paying him to play. So I'm guessing it's not going to go all that well.

[Pablo Torre]

From the very start. Like I couldn't believe that I'm reading headlines that he might go this Sunday. Like that seems crazy to me. You can't, you can't go without playing an NFL game for five years and then started quarterback.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That practice speed better be fat. Like they got to go training camp level practice speed to get him into any shape to do this. I. I don't know a scenario. I think that you can scheme up some plays that' work well for him. I wonder how honest, in an honest moment, how the rest of the locker room feels about this, because I would be concerned, but I guess they're also in desperation mode. I look at a bunch of these teams right now, and a lot of them have similar records but feel very differently. I'm guessing the Colts, who have a pretty strong record, their fan base and their team probably feels pretty terrible because now they're so desperate that I think, honestly, some of those players are probably pretty excited to have Philip Rivers there, no matter how old he is, because it represents like some level of hope that I don't know that they had a couple of weeks ago or a week ago. And even with Daniel Jones before he got hurt, they were headed in the wrong direction. So it probably does represent a spark of hope that I think we all hope. Is it extinguished immediately upon Philip Rivers taking the first snap and having enormous men trying to kill?

[Mike]

I know Philip Rivers doesn't think he leaned on his athleticism when he was playing all that much because he wasn't this great, gifted athlete. I think he's about to find out how much athleticism he had. I don't think you can afford to lose a half step, even if you only had a half step.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique.

I think you could argue that it's more important if you only had a half step to hold on to that half step. I think that there are so many other things in the game that you can rely on. If you, if you had a bunch of traits that were beneficial, you could find one of those other traits to rely on. I think Philip Rivers like ability to read defenses. Honestly, I think the thing that Philip Rivers had that was special was not only his size, but like that fire and intensity, which is hard to measure. And I don't know how that translates now if your body can't do the same same things that it once did. And so I think the accuracy is probably going to be a little bit off, the speed's going to be a little bit off and the speed. We don't pay as much attention to the speed of like, evolution of defenses as we do offenses, because defense is a little bit more complicated. It's not on a screen, it's not as exc. But the defenses that Philip Rivers is going to face now are very different from the defenses that he saw pre pandemic or during the pandemic so I'm guessing that, yeah, the offensive plays in the system, he's going to understand that it's not going to be as difficult, but the things that he's going to see are not going to be things that he saw back then. Defense has changed so fast, and from team to team, you're going to see drastically different looks.

[Mike]

It's.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's a lot harder. So, like, even if he was just as good as he was at the time when he retired, it's going to be a slightly different game. So I'm rooting for him. I'm an old guy. He's older than me, but I'm an old guy. Us old guys want these old guys to play well, but I ain't gonna lie to myself. It would be a stunner if Philip Rivers comes out there and is better than Riley Leonard.

[Pablo Torre]

Put it on the poll. Plays that lebar show. Do old guys root for old guys in sports? You brought up fire and intensity. I will tell you, I've been bitterly cold all week. So cold. Put this on the poll as well. Do you get. Does your skin itchy past a certain point in cold? Because my skin is itchy from the cold inside or outdoors. But when you bring up fire and intensity, I have felt for the last five minutes in the studio the first warmth I have felt my entire time in New York. And it's. No, it's not positive warmth. It's because of how Pablo is steaming at the fact that Mike Ryan was so done with this journalism conversation, Riley Leonard, that he talked about rivers at 44 years old. To get off of the subject that. That Pablo, I don't think is done with, as he's taking a beating from everyone, including you.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Gotta be done while doing what?

[Pablo Torre]

While doing. No, while doing the work that's so important that I also want the work that he's doing seen. The weird thing that's happening, though, is the work is getting universal praise.

[Mike]

Dan.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dan.

[Pablo]

Dan.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Pablo.

[Pablo]

Stop. Dan. Go ahead, Dan.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique, I'm not letting you off the hook. Look, Dan, you're doing this. If you. The problem that I'm laying out for Pablo is he can't be the one celebrating how hard his work is or how great he is or how important it is or how noble it is like this, or how much he wants everyone else to do this. No one ever is made to look good by being the one celebrating themselves. So, Paulo, let me finish. I'm on your side right now. So, Dan, if you care about this, you need to be the one fighting the fight for Pablo. Someone else needs to be one fighting to fight for Pablo. You'll never win if you're out there telling everyone they're they're not as good as me. I'm doing such noble work. I wish people would do what I'm doing. Pablo, you can't win that fight. Nobody is that charismatic or likable to be able to trumpet how impressive and. And great and grandiose they are and still be likable. Dan wants it to happen, but he wants you to do it, Dan.

[Pablo]

You do it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Tell us how great Pablo is.

[Pablo Torre]

Or Pablo could do it with a cooler voice.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Just saying.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. I still don't think it's gonna work. I don't know. Mob deep, though. That's. That shirt is what?

[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Pablo]

Is this better? Is this better if I talk like this?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, that's worse.

[Pablo]

That's worse.

[Dan Le Batard]

Stop doing it.

[Pablo]

Okay, very good.

[Roy]

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[Pablo]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

Checkout.

[Pablo]

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[Mike]

If we can run a show with.

[Pablo]

This much chaos, you can run a business with Shopify. With hundreds of beautiful templates, tools for payments, inventory analytics, marketing, it's all in one place. And yes, that purple button. It's why Shopify has the best converting checkout on the planet. Shopify. It's how real businesses get built. If you want to see less carts being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com batard go to shopify.com shopify.com.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

I swear Don Lerd I took my son to the barbershop, get a haircut and my man gave out some limp dap.

[Roy]

Oh no.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Damn, damn, damn st I disowned him. I threw him right under the bus. I was like, whose kid is that out here dishing Out. Limp dap. This is the D Ler show with the St.

[Pablo]

Listen, the. The. The. The thing of Dominic's total. Yes.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Give it to me. Jeremy has officially won his third Emmy. Wow. For real?

[Pablo]

Wow. Congratulations.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Hey, I'm good at journalism too, Pablo, despite the voice.

[Dan Le Batard]

Huh?

[Pablo]

This show. I hate that my fake voice sounded like Jeremy's modulated voice. Dominique's right. He's right about that. He's totally right about that.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Don't do it. You're going to say however and then start saying words however.

[Pablo]

The thing that he said before is wrong. The thing he said before is wrong. Like, why am I arguing with people? It's because the only way to cut through an Internet.

[Dominique Foxworth]

The Chicago White Sox have landed the.

[Roy]

Number one pick in the 2026 MLB Draft.

[Dominique Foxworth]

The Tamp Bay Rays.

[Roy]

Dan's beloved Rays, will have the second pick.

[Mike]

Pablo couldn't even congratulate you. That was sickening.

[Pablo Torre]

The Black Pope will be real happy. Y' all know the Pope is black, right?

Do you know how.

Poorly you stand on the wrong side of an argument when Dominique Foxworth is on this show in the middle of the day telling everyone in America that people shouldn't celebrate themselves.

[Pablo]

The fact that a cornerback is telling me that too much celebrating is going to be a bad thing for your career is just too much.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's the type of celebrating that you're doing, Pablo.

[Pablo]

And I get it. This is. Okay, so this is telling you, number one, Dan making me trumpet my own shit is deeply unlikable. Totally agree.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And also, hold up before you go.

[Pablo Torre]

Before you go.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Saying, because I'm trying to help you, Pablo, me attacking you is going to help you. You. You don't realize this. It's like you don't understand how people work. It's like you've been in the media business for all this time and don't realize. Have you ever watched a TV show, a movie, like anything, any sort of entertainment? You are digging your hole deeper and deeper. One thing that you should never do is say, you know what? You can't do what I do.

[Pablo]

Like. But that was besides the fact that Nick and I were both saying that to each other. That aside, point of. Why am I the person who puts his name in his show? Why am I out here arguing with Mark Cuban and Bill Simmons, Nick Wright, and now everybody is. Because that is the only way to cut through. Because no one gives a shit about journalism. It is a strat. I'd hate to break the bit for a second. No, no, no, no.

[Mike]

Why?

[Pablo]

I know It.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I get it, Pablo. I get it. But then don't complain about nobody likes me. I should respect. Like, that's the part.

[Pablo]

That's the. The part. The part. The part of I can argue with people but I have to lose every argument is not a great strategy either, Dominique League. So I don't know how to square that circle.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Okay, I got it. I got.

[Pablo]

I got it. Okay. What you got?

[Dominique Foxworth]

No, just say your point concisely real quick. Do it.

[Pablo]

I need to draw attention to the work by being out there talking about it with my own voice.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I didn't get it. Pablo, you nailed that, man. I think we've all been wrong. Appreciate you, brother.

[Pablo Torre]

Zazlow has yawned three times. Zazzle has yawned. Zazzle, who's also a journalist. We have. We've established that officially.

[Dominique Foxworth]

What?

[Pablo Torre]

Up here, he's a judge. Judge Zaslow. Let's get a rule, yo.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Tired of hearing everybody say, got big old head, boy.

[Pablo Torre]

Let's get a ruling from you, Zazlow. Can we get the imaging, please? On Zazzle's.

[Pablo]

Nobody's gonna let that slide.

[Pablo Torre]

A ruling.

[Pablo]

Gonna laugh with that on whether or.

[Mike]

Not the honorable Jonathan Zaslow, now presiding with prejudice.

[Pablo Torre]

I'd like to get a ruling on whether Zaslow believes he could do what Pablo does because Zaslo is also a journalist.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Let me tell you something. I'm a journalist, but I'm like. I'm like, low level journalist. All right? I'm a journalist of the things that I want to get to the bottom of.

[Pablo]

Pablo is digging deep into stuff that.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I don't even understand, and I lose my train of thought, and I cannot do what Pablo does. I got to admit.

[Pablo]

Whoa.

[Mike]

So what's the ruling?

[Pablo]

That also felt pretty good.

[Dominique Foxworth]

So my ruling is. My rule is the question whether or not I can do what Pablo does?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Dominique Foxworth]

No, with prejudice. I cannot. And by the way, I'll also add. I'll also add Nick Wright absolutely cannot do what Pablo does either. I mean, you saw the way I dominated him again yesterday. We were talking about LeBron. I was embarrassing. Sorry, Nick.

[Pablo Torre]

So you may have heard underneath all of that Pablo whimper, why can't I talk? And Roy, that will allow you to play that sound again.

I don't know. Why can't you talk? Why is that the way that you talk when you're trying to make the argument on behalf of journalism?

[Pablo]

I don't think I've had a better year professionally in my life or felt dumber at the same time.

[Pablo Torre]

There is a lot of stuff to talk about in sports and in football with Dominique. And I just, I want to talk carefully with the details. We have not the details. The Internet has the details that we have that are verifiable on Michigan's entire situation. Okay. I got in trouble a long time ago at ESPN because, and this would have been, I'm going to say, 20 years ago, I said that generally speaking in football and this was quantifiable at the time. All of a sudden when championships were being won at college football programs, there were always sirens very near the huddle, arrests very near the huddle. A correlation between Colorado winning the national championship in 1990 and Sports Illustrated reporting that like a third of their roster had been arrested. Now, Michigan has an assortment of junk around its program and it's all administrator based. It's not, it's not the players that are getting in trouble. It's an assortment of the people in charge. And so what are you comfortable deducing from the Sharon Moore situation in Michigan given the details that we have? He has been fired for an inappropriate relationship with a staffer. That's what the university released. And shortly thereafter he was in custody for an alleged assault. What's fair to discuss here with the information we have now? Dominique.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Right. I appreciate that setup because it's not much that we can say about that situation now. The stuff is out there and nothing I can say is more interesting than the speculation that people are currently reading on the Internet. But what struck me is having been around football, it is not just football having been around like any professional setting, my guess is that there are a lot of coaches out there that are pretty nervous right now. It's, it's something about being in the workplace with people that it's going to happen, these things will happen. The fact that it's a public position is going to get a bunch of attention and that it like escalated into a more and more salacious version of story. And I think this is funny. Dovetailing off of, of the journalism conversation is because like, this is part of the reason why, like, real journalism is important because there's so much speculation out there about what's happening and it's so damaging to the people that are not even directly involved, but tangentially involved. And of course it's damaging to the people that are involved, especially like the staffer whose name is in it, the kids who may be involved, the wife that's in it. Like, this is all, all just stuff that we do on the Internet. In an age where I know to go back into A different conversation from a couple of days ago where the AI does so many more things that it just feels like nothing feels true. And so if there is someone out there or a group of people who have built up the credibility that we can trust what they are saying, like that holds value. It used to be at one point that the check mark on Twitter meant something. It meant nothing else anymore. And one thing that you can't really fake is a person's identity. And if there's someone that has put in the work and done the hours and taken the time away from their family to build up a track record of credible reporting inside sports, like that's hugely valuable. And, and it's funny because I would say in a time like today, it's a reminder how important that journalism is. But like, honestly, every single day, every week, there's a new reason why the journalism is valuable. We can go back to the college football playoffs. I would love if there were somebody who was available in, that was steeped in college football but didn't have interest, conflicted by not wanting to piss people off or not wanting to upset the TV partner, or not wanting to lose their access, but would be willing to burn relationships to tell us what actually is discussed behind those closed doors. Like all of, all of sports and all of professional life needs that type of journalism.

[Pablo Torre]

Michigan's got recruiting violations, illegal scouting scandal. They got Matt Weiss, one of the co offensive coordinators, indicted for almost 10 years of downloading pictures of female athletes, and now this. How many do I have to put in front of you? When I look at the leadership at Michigan and say, my God, rotten to the core. How many, how many of these scandals do I have to give you before you say Michigan sold its soul for that championship?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, I mean that. So that's an interesting question because I'm not sure that, and this is again, like we don't know what's going on. And you don't want to incriminate any institutions that are not currently incriminated. But, but it's hard to imagine that Michigan is operating in a way that is so different from every, all of the rest of their peers. I don't know. I, I always, it always surprises me when there's a team or company or someone who's having disproportionate success and Michigan's not even the most successful program in the country. Like that changes from time to time. But.

The sloppiness that is involved in what's happened around Michigan and all the things like not just including this most recent situation, all of that sloppiness does not speak to me, does not suggest to me that they are the most well run and effective organization. And so I'm sure that there are issues at a bunch of different places. There's no way to completely clean all of this stuff up, especially when the incentives lie in such a way that the teams, the people at least with the most power, are also the people who have the highest incentive to manipulate this process. And that's like why a counterbalance is needed. And I mean, we'll get the union talk and all other things that I think are important.

[Pablo Torre]

When you say, though I'm sure there are a lot of issues at a lot of other programs. I was really stunned to hear the number seven arrested staffers since. From. From. From the Harbaugh regime. Like seven. That's a crazy number.

[Mike]

Yeah, seven arrested.

[Pablo Torre]

Seven staffers.

[Mike]

Seven staffers have been arrested since the hiring of Jim Harbaugh. I believe four have been banned for rules violations since a hiring of Jim Harbaugh. There's a lot of online conjecture that you have to be responsible about, but there were rep turned out to be reputable reporters, at least on this beat, that have been alluding to this for months. And this crescendo for Sharon Moore may not actually be that it could be a tip of the iceberg type of story, given Michigan's history here.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, there's. Sorry, go ahead, Pablo.

[Pablo]

No, Dominique, I was just going to say that like when you think about the power and the money behind Michigan, it's just worth pointing out that it is arguably the greatest in sports because one of their biggest boosters is Larry Ellison, who's the founder of Oracle, who's literally currently the richest man in the world, who's bidding for Netflix. Like the question of like who's involved in the story of Michigan, who's funded it. I have no idea if Larry Elson knows anything. All I'm saying is that we are dealing with the extreme end, the deepest part of the pool. Dominique, when it comes to where money is coming from, the story.

[Pablo Torre]

But I'm not. Seven staffers doesn't include Conor Stallions. He wasn't arrested for anything.

[Mike]

Or Alex, you'd. Who I don't believe was arrested either, but was dismissed.

[Pablo Torre]

Craziness is that. Dominique, you don't get staffers in mass arrested when a guy was only. Since Harbaugh was hired. That wasn't that long ago.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I would just say that traditionally what I like to do in any situation is look at the incentives and like the incentives don't lie with following these rules. And there aren't really great regulatory bodies and not just the rules inside the game but the laws outside the game. Also like that it seems like it comes down to in college sports, winning. In most sports, winning and success trumps just about everything else. And like I certainly don't want to suggest that things would be different if, if more was more successful. But it seems to me that these things start to fall apart when around teams that are not having the success that they are expected to have. And so like I'm not surprised when these things come out and I don't think any of us are like, as shocking as this news was last night, suggesting to you that a football coach has a relationship with someone who works on in the staff. Like, like, I don't know, maybe this is just because I've been around football my whole life. That's not surprising me. My guess is that it's not shocking to you either. If I told you that a coach of a power program had a relationship with someone on the staff, that's not the shocking part. And then all these individual things, like I can't. We can go back to like Penn State, like to suggest that someone is downloading photographs. Like that's not surprising. People do terrible things. And when you are in a successful program, it tends to be the case that you get the protection that you want until you no longer have that success. Then the protection goes away.

[Roy]

I'm trying to get ready for the holidays and wrapping my head around what I'm going to cook. And people keep asking me the same question. Roy, what are you gifting this year? What are you cooking? And honestly, I don't have time for all that. I just keep it simple. I go with Omaha Steven Steaks. People, listen up. Omaha Steaks delivers the world's best steak experience. You can send USDA certified tender steaks, juicy burgers and comfort meals that make you look thoughtful with minimum effort. Now that's my kind of gift. Right now during the Sizzle all the Way sale, you can get 50% off site wide at omahasteaks.com plus an extra $35 off with promo code. Dan I've had Omaha steaks plenty of times. I've cooked them, I gifted them. People are always impressed. Impressed. The steaks are aged perfectly tender and are full of flavor. It's holiday magic made easy. Orders placed by 6pm Eastern ship the same day. Save big on gourmet gifts and more holiday favorites with Omaha Steaks visit Omaha steaks.com for 50% off site wide during the Sizzle all the Way sale. And for an extra 35 off. Use promo code Dan at checkout. Terms apply. See site for details. That's Omaha steaks.com code Dan.

[Mike]

The World cup is coming back to North America for the first time since 9448 teams. These giant stadiums, the whole continent turning into one massive party. I cannot wait. But actually getting tickets to any of this, yeah, that part is brutal. That's why the gametime app has been a total lifesaver. It gives the advantage back to us, the fans. You can track price drops in real time, get alerts when seats open up, grab tickets tickets the second they hit the app, all backed by the game time guarantee. I'm on the app looking at World cup matches in Miami because, you know, I'm not missing that. I'm scrolling through every section in the building, behind the goal, midfield, lower ball, upper ball. And the deals are good. I had great seats locked in within minutes. The experience is so simple and intuitive. Two taps and I'm done. And the price? No surprises. Fees are included. The seat views are my favorite feature. You get a full panoramic look before you buy. And I love zone deals. Gametime picks a seat and you save even more. Take the guesswork out of buying soccer tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply again, create an account and redeem code dan for $20 off. Swipe, tap, ticket. Go download the Gametime app today.

When I think about the holidays, I think about the little moments with my dog, Roma. The ones that make the season feel special. Put little elf ears on her.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You know the deal.

[Mike]

Take some selfies. Post it for people that probably seen it too much. I love my dog. That's what I'm trying to get at. That's why I'm joining Chewy Claws, who's out here making pet's wishes come true. From November 4th through December 24th, you can share your pet's wish at chewy.com chewyclaus it might come true. And it helps others, too. Every wish triggers a donation of five meals to shelters and rescues across the country. And if you share your pet's wish through the Chewy app, they'll double that donation. That's 10 meals for pets in need just for participating. I've been using Chewy for years, legitimately. They've made my life easier for me and my dog, Roma. Food, toys, meds, all of it shows up fast, no stress and being part of something like Chewy claws where a small thing like a wish can make a real impact. That's the kind of stuff I care about. Every pet deserves a wish come true. Send your pet's wish to chewy.com chewyclaws it might become a reality. Plus, your wish means Chewy will donate five meals to Pets in Need. Don LeBatard it sounds to me like.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Everybody could use a hug because a.

[Mike]

Hug is always the right size.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Stugats.

[Mike]

All I have put in my body today is three cups of coffee and.

[Dominique Foxworth]

An entire cup of honey.

[Pablo Torre]

Go to the penalty box.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Don't let him fool you. He said in the break that he's jittery. This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Pablo Torre]

When you think of college sports power getting in trouble for this kind of thing put in front of you IME Adoka, Mike Price, Mel Tucker, Hugh Freeze, Rick Patino, Bobby Petrino. Which is the one that is the most memorable of the crimes of morality? Is it Petrino? Is it Patino? My one of my favorites was Sports Illustrated reporting some of the details. This is Sports Illustrated it reporting on Mike Price lost the Alabama job. Pretty good job to have lost the Alabama job before coaching a game. And Sports Illustrated reported that by by talking to one of the women involved in the sexual escapade that the women were saying Roll Tide. And Mike Price was shouting oh it's Roland.

That's Sports Illustrated. That's not Internet conjecture. That's a place where Pablo, who loves journalism did fact checking. That's where Pablo's started. That is not a made up story.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Those are quotes. Maybe it's because I'm a longtime listener of this show but Patino and Petrino stand out in my mind because those are two things that you guys never look to die. So they seem incredibly important. Had you chosen to re reiterate the Roll Tide thing over a decade plus, maybe I would have known and remembered that and had that more close to my memory. But I mean that picture of you dressed up like Bobby Petrino is great. And all the jokes that you guys made about pat.

His 60 seconds of.

[Pablo]

Hell like that 15, 15 oh, 15.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Oh, what a selfish, selfish person.

[Pablo]

I'm a Patino guy on that. I mean I, I, I when I was a Sports Illustrated that was a story I reported. It's crazy in ways that I think people don't appreciate. It's crazy in ways that they don't get because that woman Karen cipher of the 15 seconds story. She ended up, ended up marrying Rick Pitino's right hand man and she was part of like the program.

[Dan Le Batard]

Pablo, you're around, you're with Patino on that one.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, you did say that you, you didn't say I vote for Pitino here. You said I'm with Patino on 15 seconds. I think that's why Dominique's head is in his hands. Yeah, also that's why that.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And also he said a story I.

[Pablo Torre]

Reported when I was in sports.

[Dominique Foxworth]

There it is like that's the one you guys.

I like that actually glazed eyes completely.

[Mike]

I was down with that.

[Pablo]

I visited Karen Cipher's house. I like interviewed her at her house. I went to the courtroom. I did. You know, we, yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Eme Ada needs to get some attention here because they immediately won the championship like that. These are good jobs, these are good careers. Imag actually survived it and ends up being fine. But the job that he gave up, I'm comfortable saying that imo doka that scandal cost him a championship. None of the others did.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, I mean I, yeah, I mean it, it didn't cost him a career though. So I, given what's happened in Michigan, I don't imagine that Moore is going to get another opportunity to be a coach of any kind anywhere. Like he's let alone a head coach from your dream job. So like that's, that's the part there that he's even more like, I guess problematic or damaging or penalizing and painful. So like yeah. Having not been there for the championship that came later is one thing for a team that it seemed like your personality really helped to improve and develop and mature into a championship, like that hurts, but it's different. You go somewhere else. His career goes on. He's still a very coveted and respected coach. He's going to win a championship at some point or have decades to possibly do that more. Gonna have to find a new career like this. I don't know. No one's gonna let him in their building, I think and, and hope that he represents their program. Maybe he can start as a position coach at a low level team and, and work his way back up. But his career is forever altered. Bobby Petrino? Nah, not so much. Take a little break. Come on back.

[Pablo Torre]

Mike, can you help me with some timeline stuff here so that I could be maximum responsible on what Michigan knew and when Michigan knew it? Because to me the, the, it felt suspicious just getting information the way everyone else got it, which is the first news is more fired, inappropriate Relationship with a staffer. The that is sent out by the university and then hours later the news he's in custody, he's been arrested. I jumped to the conclusion that Michigan did that preventatively. They're saying this is the part that we know about. We're getting out of this entirely. They had to know that, that an arrest was coming if it happened a couple, if that announcement came a couple of hours before the actual in custody.

[Mike]

No, I think, I think you're speculating there Internet conjectures suggest that this stuff started breaking and that stuff was like closely aligned. I don't think what, what you alluded to there though sensical actually played out that way. But there are reporters out there and people may not be thrilled with how they go about this because it is coded in some like Michigan State homerism. But there was a guy out there by the Justin Spiro that for months was alluding to this. And if you do some Internet sleuthing you can see amongst Ohio State fans, amongst Michigan State fans. This was something that was gossiped about for a long time and while irresponsible, with the benefit of hindsight, these people knew something. And I guess now the real digging will be done on what did Michigan know? Because that's going to be important, especially when you apply their previous history on the matter.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Why is it it important?

[Mike]

Because if Michigan engaged in any sort of COVID up you could see how that would be especially problematic for that program given the recent scrutiny.

[Pablo Torre]

Dominique, are you okay with the idea of America at large? Just saying of Michigan probably for the first time ever dirty program.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I mean sure, go ahead. Like I don't have any. I have no reason to defend Michigan. I guess my, my problem with having this Michigan focused conversation is that I don't know that program well enough to anything definitive. And I tend to believe that people in general aren't very different from place to place, from organization to organization. Of course there are some extremes in this case, but it does feel like this attention is going here and also like the point that I brought up earlier and again maybe it's. Maybe they are more in leadership there, maybe they are more responsible than other places. But what it's always come down to in my experience is like if your talent is there and success is there, we find ways to work around whatever issues you may have. And it's an unfortunate reality and maybe I'm jaded. I'd hope to come back from this at some point and and be. Have more faith in, in any of our institutions. Honestly but that tends to be the case, especially in sports. We've. Yeah, we've turned and looked the other way on so many things because people have had success until you can no longer do it anymore. And maybe that's the case.

[Mike]

It is a sad reality, Dominique, that if he beats Ohio State, maybe this never sees the light of day.

[Dominique Foxworth]

If they're 15 and 0 again, like I, I don't know that it would be an immediate firing. Maybe they would have their hand forced eventually, but the conversation would take a lot longer. Like what do you think the chat.

[Mike]

GPT data was from coaches all across America and all level of sport trying to find out if they could get fired for this sort of thing was.

[Pablo]

I can't do that.

[Pablo Torre]

A number of questions before we get out of here. So rapid fire yes or no? Jalen Hurts will be the Eagles quarterback next year.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Year, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

AFC this year is going to be won by blank Bills. Cam Newton says he was offended the Colts signed Philip Rivers before even calling him saying, it's a slap in my face. Was it?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Did Derrick Henry indeed knock out Malik Harrison with his elbow even to even though Malik Harrison was wearing a helmet?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

How do you. Did you know that someone could be knocked out by another person's elbow even though they're wearing a helmet?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yes. I've, I've known it. I've seen it happen before. But we, I heard earlier in the show you were talking about cold and pain and I was thinking about how the pain threshold is to me at least it's a certain point then everything over that hurts. And there's only been two times in my career where I had a level of pain that I wanted to report on. I wanted someone else to know about. One was trying to tackle Steven Jackson with just one arm. I threw my arm into his legs and it felt like a lawnmower ran over my arm. And the other two time was when Eddie Royal blindside blocked me in the chest and I got up and coughed up blood. Missed one play and came back in. Those are the only times in my football playing career. Oh, also when I was like 14 years old in the championship game, I got hit and like one eye got stuck and I couldn't move it for a couple seconds. It was like I was cross. Half a couple seconds. Blink, blink, blink straight. Straighten it up. ADR Touchdown.

[Pablo Torre]

Stephen Jackson ran so hard for two and a half years. That description by you was great. It was like sticking my arm in a lawnmower that I just put my hand between.

[Pablo]

That's a better brag. Admittedly, nobody's better at bragging.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's not I'm bragging. How's it a brag?

[Pablo Torre]

I.

[Dominique Foxworth]

So I. I was a nickel at that point, and I played like I was a smaller guy, but I was physical. I wasn't scared to tackle. I had a game in Denver where I was hyperventilating after the game, and I. I had like nine or 10 tackles. And it's because they had. Their game plan was obviously this undersized nickel. We're going to run at them all game. But I made the tackles. But in that situation, you have a blocker on, you try to shed the blocker and all you have is one arm. So you throw it out there. And for most people, yeah, they can't run through an arm. It's going to trip them up, man. Didn't even notice that thing was there. And I. My arm just. I pulled that thing out so fast, it felt like hell.

[Pablo Torre]

Undersized nickel.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Watch it, Dan.

[Pablo]

Watch it.

[Pablo Torre]

See you later, Dominic. Good seeing you. I just was clarifying was unclear. You didn't speak clearly and you could just say it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I can say it. Whatever. Whatever I want to say, I can say. You're lucky. I might end this show.

[Pablo Torre]

See you later, Dominique. The Dominique Fox. Work.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Be careful. You in a mean. Take care of yourselves.

[Roy]

All right, man.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Be safe, fellas.

[Pablo Torre]

See you later. See you later.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Never been undersized.