The Big Suey: The Pissen Rules

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: The Pissen Rules
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Release Date: May 12, 2025

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1. Analyzing the Denver Nuggets vs. Oklahoma City Thunder Playoff Game

The episode kicks off with a heated debate about the recent playoff clash between the Denver Nuggets and the Oklahoma City Thunder. The hosts dissect the game's dynamics, focusing on the performance and strategy of both teams.

• Dan LeBatard praises the game’s intensity, describing it as “a throwback playoff” (00:44). He appreciates the competitiveness and moments of drama typical of playoff basketball.

• Stugotz vehemently disagrees, labeling the game as “terrible” (01:46). He criticizes Denver’s reliance on Nikola Jokic, suggesting that Jokic’s exhaustion negatively impacts the team’s performance:

  “When he leads for three minutes, they're terrible. Like, it's not a great team. It's a champion because that guy was that for three years.” (03:19)

• Mike Ryan adds to the critique by pointing out Denver's insufficient bench depth:

  “Denver also plays like six guys, right? Like, they don't have a bench, which is the other bigger issue.” (03:39)

The discussion highlights Denver’s strategic shortcomings, particularly their inability to sustain performance without Jokic. The hosts question the modern NBA's heavy emphasis on three-point shooting, with Dan LeBatard lamenting:

“Why do so many threes go in now? Why do so many threes get taken now? Someone needs to do something about this.” (38:27)

2. Jayson Tatum and the Boston Celtics' Performance

Shifting focus to the Boston Celtics, the hosts critique Jayson Tatum’s lack of memorable clutch moments despite his impressive statistics.

• Stugotz challenges the narrative around Tatum's impact:

  “Where are Jayson Tatum's moments?” (06:05)

• Dan LeBatard responds by differentiating between individual game performances and defining moments:

  “A moment is, why don’t Karl Malone and John Stockton have a championship? Give me a moment.” (09:04)

• Billy Corben humorously interjects, reinforcing the critique:

  “I officially rule. That's an indictment.” (09:40)

The conversation underscores the Celtics' dominance, suggesting it stifles the creation of iconic moments that can elevate a player's legacy. Stugotz compliments the team's efficiency while simultaneously criticizing the modern game’s reliance on mathematical strategy:

“If they weren't ruining basketball by being better at math than everybody.” (37:34)

3. Bill Belichick’s Personal Life and Its Impact on His Coaching Career

A significant portion of the episode delves into the controversy surrounding NFL coach Bill Belichick’s personal life and its potential repercussions on his illustrious career.

• Stugotz initiates the discussion by questioning the media’s focus on Belichick’s relationships:

  “Why are we covering this story?” (24:18)

• The hosts speculate on the possible consequences for Belichick, including contract buyouts and his future in coaching:

  “The buyout on Belichick's contract drops from 10 million to 1 million in a couple of weeks. And Pablo Torre, who's going to join us in a little while, is very interested in the clicks said on the Foxworth podcast today. There is a quote, absolutely real chance that Belichick does not make it to week one.” (30:44)

• Dan LeBatard emphasizes the severity of the scandal, comparing it to past controversies:

  “This is bigger than deflate gate. This is getting people to care in more profound ways.” (29:32)

• Roy Bellamy mocks the likelihood of the situation impacting Belichick legally:

  “Legally speaking, he was also never convicted.” (29:55)

The debate highlights concerns about how personal scandals can overshadow professional achievements, potentially altering Belichick’s legacy.

4. Miscellaneous Discussions and Banter

In addition to the primary topics, the hosts engage in various lighter discussions and humorous exchanges:

• Workout Routines:
  The hosts humorously debate Bill Belichick’s rumored "tibs workout," speculating on his strength and fitness regimen:

  “That's the Tibbs workout, and it's clearly the Belichick workout.” (33:19)

• Age and Fitness of Coaches:
  They playfully guess the ages of coaches like Tom Thibodeau, adding levity to the conversation:

  “He looks great for 67.” (36:42)

• Bird Sounds:
  A brief, humorous interlude includes listening to bird sounds, adding a quirky element to the episode:

  “There is a woodpecker over there.” (37:34)

Notable Quotes

• Dan LeBatard:

  “Don’t be like this. Basketball was basketball in the 90s.” (02:04)

• Stugotz:

  “There is no such thing as wrong anymore?” (10:00)

• Dan LeBatard:

  “I will hate Brad Marchand forever.” (12:10)

Conclusion

In this episode of The Big Suey: The Pissen Rules, Dan LeBatard and Stugotz provide a thorough and spirited analysis of recent NBA playoff games, scrutinize the Boston Celtics' season, and delve into the controversial aspects of Bill Belichick’s personal life. Their blend of insightful commentary and playful banter offers both sports enthusiasts and casual listeners an engaging listening experience, ensuring that even those who haven't tuned in before find the discussions informative and entertaining.

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Timestamps Reference

• Sponsor and Ads: Skipped as per request.
• Main Content: 00:31 – 40:02
• Notable Interactions and Bickering: Interspersed throughout the main content timestamps.

Transcript

[Sponsor Voice]

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[Dan LeBatard]

Now's a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila. Cuervo, what are you doing here?

[Stugotz]

Cuervo? Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I do know that to be true. But even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think he could lay out especially.

[Stugotz]

For one of our great partners, sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.

[Stugotz]

Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all.

[Stugotz]

Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

Cuervo, the tequila that invented tequila. Roximo. Cuervo.com please drink responsibly.

[Stugotz]

Cuervo. Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry.

[Billy Corben]

I'm not gonna apologize for that.

[Stugotz]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fr. That if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. And now here's the marching man to nowhere Fat face and the habitual liar.

[Greg Cody]

This episode is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The crown is yours.

[Stugotz]

That OKC defense, pretty good, huh?

[Dan LeBatard]

Hey, that was a good game. That was like a throwback playoff.

[Stugotz]

It was not a good game.

[Mike Ryan]

It was terrible.

[Dan LeBatard]

Did you watch or no? That's playoff hoops, baby.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a good 25 points in the first quarter with 37 missed shots.

[Dan LeBatard]

Denver had scored eight points the entire.

[Stugotz]

First quarter in the first quarter.

[Dan LeBatard]

And I thought they were gonna win that game.

[Billy Corben]

I love that game.

[Dan LeBatard]

Great game.

[Stugotz]

The Nuggets were in late in the third period. It was not a good game. It was terrible.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, don't, don't, don't. Don't be like this. Basketball was basketball in the 90s. That was a nice 90s ass game. That was a great 90s basketball.

[Stugotz]

Listen to me. It was not okay. And OKC, like one of the things that's just fascinating to watch. It really is. Super interesting. So many years ago, d' Antoni says to James Harden, we're going to get up 50 threes a game and you're going to have 15 assists. And I remember Harden's quote coach be tripping like, no way. No way. No. What are you talking about? Dantoni is ahead of the curve. He almost knocks out that Golden State team because they were. They were slicing up the math so much. Take 53s. Take 53s. I got into such a huge argument with Boston, and it felt so good. It felt so good because Boston's built the fastest car. It's the greatest thing. Ahead of everyone else by just a little bit. But holy shit, look out. OKC will smother you. And Chet Holmes, when he introduces himself, he's not saying forward or center, he's saying athlete. Like, I don't know if that team can knock out Boston, but I do know that I would have liked to see Boston tested by Denver. And I do know in the last few years, I've never seen Jokic look like that over 10 from 3. What are you talking about?

[Mike Ryan]

He's exhausted, though.

[Stugotz]

Of course, because they're young. They're young and they're hungry and they want to shit, right?

[Billy Corben]

That's the part that's, you know, I keep hearing the. Oh, Jokic is finally exhausted from carrying the team. No, no, no. He's playing the team that won 68 games in the regular season. Like, that's why he looks like this.

[Mike Ryan]

Denver also plays like six guys, right? Like, they don't have a bench, which is the other bigger issue.

[Stugotz]

Oh, but it's not through. It's not just six guys. It's through three quarters in that game. Denver's got other guys getting free throws. It's just Shay. It's just Shay there. It's just Shay. But they grind you down, and what you're not noticing is, oh, my God. The game plan is now that the Wolves are just going to slowly eat the elephant over the course of the game and series because the MVP of the league, Denver, is not a great team when he's on the floor. Their plus minus is historic. When he leads for three minutes, they're terrible. Like, it. It's not a great team. It's a champion because that guy was that for three years. Best offensive player I've ever seen. Michael Jordan included. However, when the 68 win team is young and we've been talking about Shay, Shay, Shay, and people aren't paying Attention. No. They ground you to dust on defense.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes. So why are you arguing that it's a bad game? Not to get too bogged down in this, but, like, it gave you moments. It actually had a point differential that was tight for most of that game. That's. That's playoff basketball, which is all about drama. And the way that these point differentials have been going is you don't even have the opportunity for drama. It seems as though teams know that the game is over once they're down 20 outside of outlier New York Knicks performances. That was a good game. And now. And now you actually see it. Like, I came away so impressed with OKC despite them not playing their best basketball game because they found a way to win on the road while they didn't play their best basketball game. It was a gritty effort. And that's the kind of effort that jumps off the screen in terms of, like, oh, this team has a toughness about them that might actually be enough to get them over that hump.

[Billy Corben]

Look at the box score right now.

[Stugotz]

The game, an atrocity.

[Billy Corben]

So, no, no, no. I loved that game last night because I love that style. But the score, the end of the first quarter, 17 to 8, 25 points.

[Stugotz]

It was dreadful.

[Dan LeBatard]

SGA had as many points as the Nuggets had.

[Stugotz]

It was dreadful. And. And Denver was only winning again. They were shooting 30% and up 5 only because they were getting a few more free throws. It was just dreadful to watch.

[Billy Corben]

Oh, man, it was great in the. I think it was great, too. In the first and the fourth quarter, half the game combined, the Nuggets scored 26 points.

[Mike Ryan]

They have nobody outside of their big three. And Aaron Gordon's been playing amazing this, this series and this playoff.

[Dan LeBatard]

I thought he only dunked.

[Stugotz]

Can I. Can I tell you about the Boston argument? That's my fault. That was bad analysis by me. And a lot of people have been pointing out, like, I've gotten so much of this this weekend. They've been pointing out some form of screaming and yelling at me because my analysis of Jayson Tatum was the following. And I guess I mean it as an indictment, but it just seems obvious to me.

[Billy Corben]

I'll decide. I'm a judge.

[Stugotz]

Okay, so what I was telling you about. Boston's got the fastest car for now. They game the system. Right? They got the best three point shooters and they got Porzingis at seven three stretching the floor. And nobody in the east will probably beat them. They're still favorites even though they were down 20 and going on the road because I think we all feel like whatever can beat them is out west. Maybe Indiana. Indiana plays them tough. Indiana.

[Mike Ryan]

I have to say something really quick. You were right about the Pacers. You've been right about the Pacers since the break of the holidays. The Pacers are incredible.

[Stugotz]

The Pacers could beat the Celtics had the position to beat the Celtics last year. But this to me is the interesting part where I get into a fight with Boston because I was saying, where are Jayson Tatum's moments? Is what I was talking about. I was saying Jalen Brunson in the last series to extinguish Detroit gave a generation of sports fans for the Knicks something they will never forget. It's not a championship, but it's a moment. And so I was asking, where are Jayson Tatum's moments? And Boston was infuriated. And I was just getting pelted with Jayson tatum. No moments. 2023 Eastern Conference semifinals versus the 76ers most points ever in a game. 7, 42 minutes, 51 points. 17 of 28 field goals, 5 assists, 2 steals. I guess that's not a moment.

[Billy Corben]

I don't remember that.

[Stugotz]

No. Well, hold on a second. It's not a moment. It's a game. A game is not a moment. You know what a moment is? A moment is, why don't Karl Malone and John Stockton have a championship? Give me a moment.

[Dan LeBatard]

The push off.

[Stugotz]

But I'm just saying like that those are the moments. And it's the only thing he doesn't have. And I don't mean it indictment. But I do wonder, and I think it's fair to wonder when we can now measure Jalen Brunson in the fourth quarter is great. We can say Jayson Tatum is an amazing player. Third best in the league this season. Had the best first round of any player maybe in the entire postseason. And we can also say to date he has not been tested in a way that wouldn't make him just a front runner on a team that can win by 20, on a team that can win by 20, that he doesn't have the moments you remember that you can point to. And so I'm just wondering when Boston points out, and I won't even point out that that game was against James Harden. I won't even point out that 50 point games don't mean what they used.

[Billy Corben]

To and beat did nothing in that game too.

[Dan LeBatard]

By the way, my dog's spitting right now.

[Stugotz]

I would just know. But I would just ask you, like it was such a Weird argument to have with Boston. Do you not know the difference between games and moments? Because I'll tell you, here's a moment. Carlton Fisk is a moment. Ask everybody whether they won the World Series that year or not, or whether anyone knows whether the Boston Red Sox won outside of your city.

[Roy Bellamy]

Well, they famous had a drought of World Series, so, you know, they didn't win.

[Stugotz]

I'm just saying that I guess machine. I'm guessing if you ask people this home run, this image, young people, and you say, did this win a championship? The answer would be, of course.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah. I had no idea, actually. I just know if he's blowing the wind one way or the other. I don't know if it was this way or that way.

[Dan LeBatard]

Larry Bird in his short shorts.

[Stugotz]

Towel. That was also down the left field line.

[Billy Corben]

So, okay, I'm a judge, so I could tell you. You saying that Jason Tatum does not have any moments. Where are the moments? I officially rule. That's an indictment.

[Stugotz]

Wow.

[Billy Corben]

And. And I rule a prejudice.

[Stugotz]

Judge Zaslow.

[Billy Corben]

I've told you guys, you always rule prejudice.

[Stugotz]

What?

[Billy Corben]

Yeah, I rule. I made my ruling with prejudice.

[Roy Bellamy]

Zazzle, about prejudice.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Kind of like the judicial system now, sort of.

[Stugotz]

By the way, just put this on the poll. Is there any such thing as wrong anymore? As Qatar gets into the game with $400 million palace in the sky for Trump. Just put on the poll. Is there any such thing as wrong anymore? I will tell you the story. Could you guys look this up for me, please? What year this was, I'm going to. I can't remember which Olympic village it was, but during. Would it have been Atlanta? So it may have been 30 years ago, but I'm introduced to the idea of Qatar because I've never. I didn't have any familiarity with it. And the way I'm introduced to it is they were trying to launder their money by buying Bulgarian weightlifters that were clearly cheating to represent Qatar in. In weightlifting. And that's the quaint little way they got into the game as an. As a. As a rogue nation with oil money. And I think I have this right when I say it's 1992. Is there any such thing as wrong anymore? Because Mike Ryan's trying to run on a platform of right now the biggest political movement in the United States. I was not wrong. I will never admit I'm wrong. I'm just going to churn ahead. There's no such thing as wrong anymore.

[Dan LeBatard]

While I try to push the country forward and admit whenever I'm Wrong. Earlier this series, I called Brad Marchand a rotational winger. He's been probably the most consistent. I lumped him in with a group that was unfair to, really, Jonah Gadjevic, mostly because I omitted him from the list of rotational wingers that I'd personally rather have out there than Brad Marchand. But again, I love the franchise more than you. And by the way, the polls are speaking for themselves. People are saying pretty. We've reached consensus here, haven't we, Billy? I care about the Florida Panthers more than Sasha Barkley.

[Stugotz]

Okay, I'm gonna get back to that. I'm sorry I let that go because it's one of the most ridiculous things ever said by a human being.

[Roy Bellamy]

Now the people are siding with Mike on this one, on both Twitter and Instagram right now. Overwhelmingly so overwhelming.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look, you guys decide that the second arrival that has treated your franchise and its players like absolute garbage, that you would welcome in into your open, warm embrace.

[Roy Bellamy]

Don't mince words. He's saying. You guys are spineless, the two of yous.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think that your loyalty isn't to the front of the jersey, isn't to the crest, whereas mine cannot be questioned because I will hate Brad Marchand forever.

[Billy Corben]

My loyalty is exactly to the front of the sweater, is exactly to the crest, is exactly to the shield. And that's why. And that's why I root for Marchand right now. Because I root for the front of that jersey. I don't care what the back of that jersey says.

[Roy Bellamy]

No, I don't know.

[Billy Corben]

I don't care.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's at the back of the jersey, says Marshawn.

[Billy Corben]

You see that shield right here?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah.

[Billy Corben]

This is what it's about.

[Roy Bellamy]

You don't deserve to iron that on.

[Dan LeBatard]

Probably walk all over that crest in the locker room.

[Roy Bellamy]

Real Panthers fans would rather. Rather lose this playoff than win with Marchand. Without a doubt in my mind.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, I would take it as confirmation bias that they made the wrong move.

[Stugotz]

I'm feeling like Mike at this point, Roy, I don't know how you feel about it. I'm feeling like Mike is almost actively rooting against the Panthers and rooting only to be right.

[Billy Corben]

You'd rather be right.

[Dan LeBatard]

How dare. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He is. No, no. Roy.

[Stugotz]

Yes. How dare I?

[Dan LeBatard]

How dare you?

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Everyone knows Roy.

[Roy Bellamy]

What are you rooting for? Everyone knows Trap, set, and cut.

[Dan LeBatard]

You got him. You're supposed to unbiased member of the.

[Roy Bellamy]

Media, impartial member of the media who just admitted to rooting for The Panthers.

[Stugotz]

I was my emotions on my sleeve.

[Mike Ryan]

He got your ass there.

[Billy Corben]

What did you guys get?

[Dan LeBatard]

His ass? We got. Because he does say where. He's like, I'm an unbiased member of the media. I don't really care about that. We got his ass. We got his action.

[Roy Bellamy]

Damn right.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't mean to try to argue that he cared about the Panthers more than me.

[Stugotz]

I will admit. Okay, right at you. I will admit that I'm ruining for the Panthers. You know why? Because I've been running for the Panthers.

[Roy Bellamy]

Right now. Let me pull those credentials right now.

[Stugotz]

How dare you?

[Roy Bellamy]

We can't have that in the press.

[Dan LeBatard]

Who here set up a Panthers promo table and a prize wheel at a gas station in their life?

[Mike Ryan]

I have, actually.

[Stugotz]

You did. I won a prize, actually, I think. Who? Yeah.

[Billy Corben]

Now it's my turn.

[Dan LeBatard]

Community engagement. Who called season ticket holders?

[Billy Corben]

Nice. That's a nice credential. Now it's my turn though, right?

[Roy Bellamy]

Is it?

[Billy Corben]

Who in here was a Panther broadcaster for several seasons?

[Roy Bellamy]

Oh, my God, here we go.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, broadcasters. That's a. That's a very transient position.

[Roy Bellamy]

This guy. Not. Not only with the fan. Panthers broadcaster until the Heat were good. Then boom, I jumped over like a troll up to the Heat bandwagon. Then I'm a two time championship broadcaster and then the Heat. I'm a Heat fan. After I wasn't a broadcaster and then the Heat weren't good anymore, boom. Now I'm a Panthers fan. Oh, now you're talking like a Crazy patterns.

[Dan LeBatard]

Did Michael, your mark ever ask you for a printout? Wow, he asked me for a printout. Did he ask you for a printout?

[Stugotz]

I don't want comparison off. I don't want.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look, did you ever share elevators with Mike Keenan?

[Stugotz]

Oh, not Mike Keenan. You know what? You know what?

[Roy Bellamy]

Keenan and Kel, we've got a penalty. Five minutes.

[Greg Cody]

Major asshole.

[Stugotz]

I can't have you in here, Jazz out of here saying you care more about the Panthers.

[Roy Bellamy]

Dan, don't worry, I got this Roy's ass out of here. Hit the road, Jacks.

[Stugotz]

No.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, he might be right about my kid.

[Roy Bellamy]

Dan just kicked you out. You have to respect this. Dan has kicked you.

[Stugotz]

Wednesday, Billy.

[Roy Bellamy]

No, it's Monday. I'm here. I'm trying to enforce the rules that these two are not abiding by. Guys, Dan, hit the button. You gots to go. We'll be back. Don't worry.

[Billy Corben]

Pretty sure the penalty box door is open for you.

[Roy Bellamy]

Really?

[Stugotz]

No, they're right. They're right. Challenge they're right, actually. I don't know how they did this, but it's actually on you. It is, it is.

[Dan LeBatard]

I got to tell you, I agree.

[Stugotz]

With Mike on Mike Keener. Yeah. Having to sell that and share that elevator with him. That must have been Roy. You're going to have to leave as well. I'm sorry, but you're going to. Have to.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you for last second appeal. But you don't love the Panthers as.

[Stugotz]

Much as I do.

[Roy Bellamy]

Well, people have spoken.

[Stugotz]

The thing that just happened now, that is just truly shocking and they did trap you. And I can't believe it. Usually Roy is savvier than this. I don't know if the second round of the playoffs has gotten to him. I don't know if the last two days of shit yourself, especially overtime in game three when he pretends to not himself when he was shitting himself, has made it so that he's more susceptible to being trapped by Mike and Billy. But it's happened. I just witnessed it. He just admitted he's not a journalist. I was shocked by that.

[Roy Bellamy]

It's just been a crazy week for journalism. First Pablo's just making up stories about the Belichicks, according to unc. And now Roy's doing this. I mean, what's going on?

[Mike Ryan]

And the horse.

[Stugotz]

Can you guys tell me what's going on with old highfalutin Pablo? Eleven sources.

[Dan LeBatard]

Jordan finished. Was it third? Second. Second. I've seen conflicting reports.

[Stugotz]

Third in Maine.

[Dan LeBatard]

Third in Maine.

[Stugotz]

It wasn't.

[Dan LeBatard]

I thought it was.

[Stugotz]

Second was last year. Second was last year.

[Dan LeBatard]

So I saw a report that she finished the exact same spot, but conflicting reports. Here's one thing that's for sure. She didn't win. And she was not happy about it. But surprisingly, according to reports, BB was there.

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah, duh.

[Dan LeBatard]

He was there.

[Roy Bellamy]

I did.

[Dan LeBatard]

So despite like all of this like PR spin, like they thought no public appearance at this beauty pageant, that's. That's a good.

[Stugotz]

Can we call Pablo? Because this is going to be the Peabody of winning journalism. He does. 11 sources.

[Roy Bellamy]

If Taylor's a source, you got no source.

[Dan LeBatard]

I felt bad for Jordan because like that quote, like there was one anonymous quote that Pablo attributed. She's the worst person I've ever met. And I. And I deal with actual psych sociopaths. That was harsh. I mean, she's any. That, that. That would be horrib hard for anybody.

[Greg Cody]

To hear, you know, when you celebrate 50 years of Miller Light. I had to bring in a Miller Light aficionado, Greg Cody. I mean, no one says Miller Lite like Greg Cody. I think when I think of me and you, I think of us on a golf course. Where else are we at?

[H]

I mean, on a cruise ship. In. In my backyard.

[Greg Cody]

At the beach.

[Stugotz]

At the.

[H]

At the beach is a good one.

[Greg Cody]

What do we always do?

[Stugotz]

We.

[Greg Cody]

We hear that.

[H]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Greg Cody]

And then what do we do?

[H]

We toast.

[Greg Cody]

Nice little clink. The clink. Whether it's the can or the bottle, there's something about the clink of the Miller Light.

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah.

[H]

And it's not just how much we. We love it. It's. It's the. The whole ritual of it. You know, the. The popping the top, the sound of that.

[Stugotz]

Yeah. Yeah.

[H]

It's great. Love it.

[Dan LeBatard]

Love it.

[Greg Cody]

From game nights to parties with friends or a special anniversary, celebrating important occasions means more with the coolest people in your life. Cheers to 50 years of Miller Light, the great tasting light beer. For people who Love beer since 1975, now's a perfect time to celebrate legendary stories with friends, family, and a great tasting light beer. It's Miller time. The simple ingredients, that malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors. And that iconic golden color.

[H]

Yes, it's one. Everything about it is wonderful. I can't think of anything.

[Greg Cody]

You're smiling. Ever since we started doing this ad read, you have just been smiling the entire time.

[H]

I'm a Miller Light guy.

[Greg Cody]

That kind of thing. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Folks, listen up. If you run anything online these days, a podcast, a merch store, whatever it is, you're basically forced to wear 12 hats. Marketing? Sure. Customer service? Why not? And now you're supposed to be your own IT department. Kinsta is managed WordPress hosting, which means you get blazing fast site speeds, top tier security, and a dashboard that doesn't look like it was built in 2006. And if something goes sideways, real humans, not bots, to help you 24. 7. No scripts, no sorry, I don't understand replies. Kinsta takes the stress out of tech stuff so you can actually focus on your business. Or in our case, more time watching games, arguing nonsense, and delivering the hottest take possible. No messing with settings, no panic troubleshooting, just smooth sailing. Tired of being your own website support? Team, switch your hosting to Kinsta and get your first month free. And don't worry about the move. They'll handle the whole transition for you. No tech expertise required. Just visit kinsta.com dan to get started. That's K-I-N-S-T-A.com dan.

[Roy Bellamy]

I'm just trying to live up to the version of me my dogs think I am. You know what I mean? I mean Dopey and Izzy, they think I've got it all figured out. Meanwhile, I'm googling can dogs e watermelon midnight? Because I fed them some and now I'm panicked. And guess what? We're out of food. Flea, meds, treats, everything. Enter Chewy Lifesaver. Got everything delivered in likely a day.

[Stugotz]

Food?

[Roy Bellamy]

Check. Flea stuff?

[Stugotz]

Check.

[Roy Bellamy]

Toys? They'll ignore in 10 minutes, but I'll keep buying anyway.

[Stugotz]

Yep.

[Roy Bellamy]

Check. Chewy has over a hundred thousand products. Food, meds, toys, fish stuff, bird stuff. I mean, if it's got a tail or scales, Chewy's got it. They've got vet visits, insurance, and all of it. Plus I'm on auto ship now. I don't have to remember anything. And here's the best part about auto ship. This is one of those months where dopey and Izzy got a little hungrier in their tum tums and food was going quicker than I anticipated. I can go onto auto ship and change the date and it'll come sooner. Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to chewy.comDan that's chewy.comDan to save $20 on your first order with free shipping. Chewy.comDan minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. See site for complete details. By the way, dogs can eat watermelon, just not the seeds or the rind. I'm learning.

[Stugotz]

Don LeBatard Lightning Panthers. What do you think? Stugats?

[Billy Corben]

Look at this face while I tell this to you, okay? Because I don't want there to be any kind of confusion. You look me right in the eye. Panthers could take that ass, man.

[Roy Bellamy]

This is the Dun Levatar show with the stugats.

[Stugotz]

Unc denies it. Okay. And this is funny to think about. Maybe we should get Pablo on here because he's been accused by Marcus Jordan and Larsa Pissen Pippin. Excuse me.

[Mike Ryan]

Carry on. Play on for me.

[Stugotz]

It should be. Thank you, Tony.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a play on there.

[Greg Cody]

See?

[Stugotz]

Thank Tony. Thank you, Marcus Jordan. This is what happens when you. I was thinking about. This should be the Jordan rules.

[Dan LeBatard]

Banned from campus.

[Stugotz]

Like, this is so stupid. And honest to God, of course the machine's going to fall on this woman. You can't have.

[Dan LeBatard]

Did you see a.

[Stugotz]

You can't have someone strong. You cannot have someone strong. And a woman challenging this particular construct in a way that makes Belichick look like he's getting run around and isn't. Like in his. In his. He's not thinking clearly. It's really unfair to have this, the whole machine batter her here because it's such a male machine. And I'm not even saying, like, I don't know whether she's an opportunist. I don't know whether she's a gold digger. You can have whatever your idea of love is. I would say this just in general. I'm guessing Bill Belichick hasn't been doing a lot of exploring of his innards on what relationship growth should look like. Like over the course of the last 50 years of being obsessed with that stupid thing and how big and giant it is to win at that level. My guess is he hasn't been paying a lot of attention to his relationships outside of football. So I don't know what's happening there. Obviously everyone's curious about it, but Pablo reporting with 11 sources and Billy, I think you just betrayed Pablo by saying if Taylor was one of them. I didn't even think of that.

[Roy Bellamy]

Why is that a betrayal of Pablo? I'm putting my journalism hat on Taylor.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like a lot of Tar Heels on this one. Head in the sand. Head in the sand.

[Stugotz]

Everyone is eating at the trough of how ridiculous it is in the modern age to watch one of the great industry tycoons, giants, geniuses, be apparently for all to see run around by a 24 year old woman who might be ambitious. And how uncomfortable that might just generally make threatened men.

[Roy Bellamy]

Definitely ambitious. There's no might be. She's Jordan's definitely.

[Stugotz]

I know, but. I know, but whatever. She's taking advantage of the same opportunity Belichick's taking advantage of, which is like, there's a business opportunity right here for both of them that makes her famous. Like, makes her like, I don't know if. I don't know if she actually wants this coming her way. Right. Like, this is a pretty terrible kind of famous. But wherever it is, the generational gulf is she was in a Dunkin Donut super bowl commercial. Like, whatever she wants from attention is here. And my guess is in an early 20s. There's no one equipped to deal with what this attention looks like when it's blessed football you're coming after and you have the audacity to be a woman who wants some of the money.

[Roy Bellamy]

Can I ask a question? Why do we care about this so much? Like, why is CNN having on multiple guests to talk about Bill Belichick's relationship?

[Stugotz]

Because it's fascinating, but it's not.

[Roy Bellamy]

Like, if you want to be taken seriously as, like, a news outfit, why are you covering this story?

[Greg Cody]

Does Numbies.

[Stugotz]

That's okay.

[Roy Bellamy]

It does Numbies. But that's why you can't be taken seriously as a news outfit after that. Because, like, if this is what you're deeming news in a time where there's actual, real, crazy news going on and you're wasting time on this for ratings, like, pardon me for not taking you seriously.

[Dan LeBatard]

Is this not fascinating? This is super fascinating.

[Roy Bellamy]

It is, but, like, not for actual news networks. This is below them.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's just.

[Roy Bellamy]

This is, like, fun for tmz.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, no, I. I get you.

[Stugotz]

News is dead. Billy is being killed right now. I will tell you. Pablo Torres podcast has just rocketed to the top of everything doing business.

[Roy Bellamy]

Oh, I know, but, like, this is, like, numbers.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, but, I mean, didn't.

[Roy Bellamy]

Didn't trafficking.

[Dan LeBatard]

Didn't this go up to another stratosphere, though, like, on a. On a true news program on CBS Sunday Morning? Like, didn't, like, didn't this kind of unfold fold through a traditional media meme? Did it not? I think that's where everybody.

[Stugotz]

It was CBS Sunday Morning.

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think that's where everybody paid attention. And, like, not just football fans, but casual people are like, wait, what's going on with one of the greatest head coaches of all time, if not the greatest. He's dating some who.

[Roy Bellamy]

But, like, we're largely not reporting anything. It's all just gossiping about his relationship.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's where some of the more interesting stuff has been from the gossip. Like, why are they so murky about when they met? And then in Pablo's podcast, they kind of theorize, she might have been 19.

[Stugotz]

Okay, so just so you guys know, okay, because Pablo Torres podcast is a place as media shakes and crumbles, is a safe space for independent microphone conversation. I will tell you, for those of you who are worried about the future of our show, because, hey, why is this stugac? Why is he stepping back? Well, I would like all my friends to have giant businesses and stugats would like God bless football to be a giant business. And he's going to make it a giant business. And Pablo's going to make Pablo Torre finds out a giant business. And David Sampson has already made nothing personal a giant business. And that's why we left and did what we did, so that we can have, you know, people take up their brands and be independent. And then when the corporations come around, now, as you have people, you know.

[Dan LeBatard]

Eyes on the prize here. This is about Jordan.

[Stugotz]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, but no, she did finish third, by the way.

[Stugotz]

Hold on.

[Dan LeBatard]

She was the last second runner up.

[Mike Ryan]

Second was last year.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's where the confusion is.

[Stugotz]

Hold on, I'll get back to the smut of Jordan. I'm just saying Pablo Torre's doing actual journalism and in this case he's in the gutter for clicks. But he's got 11 sources and he's more informed than all of you on this subject matter. Cuz it's not even his first time tackling it. What I'm saying is, wherever it is, you might think it's smart. You dismiss a podcast you're not listening to, cuz he's, he's insistent upon, upon doing it with journalism. Even if this is smart and even if this is the thing that gets the clicks. Because obviously everybody, it's not just that it's fascinating. Everyone's like, what's going on there?

[Dan LeBatard]

Like, this person should find out.

[Stugotz]

This person is a genius. This person has been. He conquered the sport. And then he goes from that to gaming the system. Right? Gaming the system. Goes straight to college. I'm hugely famous. Nobody in the pros will take me. I'm. Atlanta's asking to interview me a second time and declining me. Okay. Clearly the end of my career. Right? Like I can, I could probably get a job somewhere, someplace or, or I couldn't get the Atlanta job. Like, right. I was free. And people don't like whatever I'm doing because not unlike Riley, hey, coach, you got too much power. And Kraft says is making documentaries, saying he's the one that did that with Brady. And you were just kind of there. And then you're putting in your book in that CBS Sunday Morning show. You're putting in your book. No mention of Kraft because you think you deserve the credit. So how does that get run around by a 20 year old? And how is North Carolina reacting to it? Scared and looking at buyout, I imagine. Because he's got, he's got Strahan on Friday. And this thing, it'd be funny. It'd be Funny to see a titan toppled by his inability to. To control generationally what's happening with who he's dating.

[Billy Corben]

Do you think there are odds out there on him never coaching a game at UNC?

[Dan LeBatard]

His buyout does go to 1 million in a few days. I think what's.

[Stugotz]

So.

[Dan LeBatard]

There's plenty weird about this. And I'm not even talking about the age golf. I really don't even care about that. I honestly wouldn't really think twice about it, truly, if it were behind the scenes. But, like, this guy is so well known for keeping distractions away from the team, and he has brought one of the biggest distractions in the history of football that people cannot get enough. Like, it's transcended. It's transcendent. Like, yeah, there are. There have been, like, sporting scandals where people who care about sports care about it. This is now Us Weekly. Like, you're at the checkout lane in your supermarket and you know about. Think about what I'm telling you.

[Stugotz]

People are still doing this.

[Dan LeBatard]

You know about Bill Belichick's dating life and how it's hurting his football team. This is the antithesis of what Bill Belichick has done in the public eye.

[Billy Corben]

Big hypocrite.

[Mike Ryan]

This scandal is bigger than him hiding a killer in his locker room.

[Dan LeBatard]

Certainly bigger than deflate gay. This is bigger than deflate gate. This is getting people to care in more profound ways.

[Stugotz]

That was not hiding a killer. He was not in plain sight, Dan.

[Mike Ryan]

In plain sight.

[Roy Bellamy]

He wasn't aiding and abetting.

[Mike Ryan]

We don't know.

[Roy Bellamy]

At best.

[Stugotz]

We don't know.

[Greg Cody]

We kind of do.

[Billy Corben]

We don't know for sure.

[Mike Ryan]

We don't know for sure. Judge Oslo, what are we doing?

[Billy Corben]

Do we know or not know?

[Roy Bellamy]

Legally speaking, he was also never convicted.

[Billy Corben]

We do not know.

[Mike Ryan]

We do not know.

[Billy Corben]

We do not know.

[Stugotz]

The buyout on Belichick's contract drops from 10 million down to 1 million in a couple of weeks. Weeks. In a couple of weeks.

[Dan LeBatard]

Steve Martin's as well.

[Stugotz]

I. No, no. I. Well, I.

[Billy Corben]

That's not fair.

[Stugotz]

I was repeating it so I could add the information emphasis. I mean, like, you. You care more than. I'll go. You care more than Barkov and, well, accountability.

[Dan LeBatard]

I was wrong to do that.

[Stugotz]

You can stay there. You can stay there.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you. We found common ground. Thank you for working towards a solution.

[Stugotz]

You can care more than Barkov about Panthers hockey.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you.

[Stugotz]

But you do not know, despite your arrogance, what I'm going to say next, even though you always think you do.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I'LL be the judge of that.

[Stugotz]

Okay.

[Roy Bellamy]

You write on a piece of paper, give it to Zaz, and then Mike has to guess what it is and we'll see if we're right.

[Stugotz]

The buyout on Belichick's contract drops from 10 million to 1 million in a couple of weeks. And Pablo Torre, who's going to join us in a little while, is very interested in the clicks said on the foxworth podcast today. There is a quote, absolutely real chance that Belichick does not make it to week one.

[Roy Bellamy]

Oh, give it a number, coward. There's a real chance. That's not a thing.

[Stugotz]

Cowards on another network.

[Dan LeBatard]

I. I'll admit it, I was wrong. I wrote down attention economy.

[Roy Bellamy]

Also, by the way, like, is this really bad for North Carolina, a team that finished 12th in the accident? More people are talking about them. I don't think any pub.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is bad.

[Stugotz]

Just go get Larry Fedora again.

[Roy Bellamy]

This isn't bad for them.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is bad because I happen to know, like, I wish Pablo Tony, because I would have been a good source. He's not gonna be there for long. He doesn't want to be there for long. He doesn't want to. He reminds people often how close he is to the all time WINS record. That is my reporting, according to my sources.

[Billy Corben]

You're reporting that?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes. And there was like a weird time in which he stopped talking to UNC when the Dallas job opened. Like, he does not want to be there. And I think what finally registered with him with this whole hiring, whole new PR and everything like that is this is actually impeding his path to get back to the NFL.

[Billy Corben]

Oh, that ship is sailed.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, he's finally paying attention to it in ways that are like, oh, no, I think I might have done damage here. The NFL does not want this Jordan circus.

[Roy Bellamy]

I think, flip side, let's focus on the positive. Greatest coach ever, right? We would at least.

[Billy Corben]

Don't look at me when you're saying. Right.

[Roy Bellamy]

I'm asking, I'm asking. You up for debate? One of the greatest coaches ever.

[Stugotz]

You don't think so? Not the greatest coach ever. No.

[Dan LeBatard]

Who is Shula?

[Roy Bellamy]

Okay, okay, well, whatever. One of the greatest coaches ever, aside from Shula. If he gets North Carolina into the College Football Playoff, I could go out on a limit. I'm going to tell you right now, because of how important football is to all these schools, there's going to be another Jordan statue in North Carolina and they may take down the first one.

[Stugotz]

Wow.

[Dan LeBatard]

Air Jordan.

[Roy Bellamy]

Write that down. My sources are telling Me that.

[Stugotz]

Okay, your sources combined with my sources. I'm going to go back here and do real journalism. Unlike this Peabody. Pablo Torre finds out guy. Because I will say UNC is denying Pablo's report. He will come on in moments and tell us what's up. I just want everyone to know that we broke this news right here. That this was Bill Belichick leaving an apartment with the ring doorbell cam. We did real journalism around here.

[Greg Cody]

Great audio this.

[Dan LeBatard]

We did not. We did not break this news. We did not secure this video.

[Stugotz]

We did not know. Well, that's correct.

[Dan LeBatard]

Babs on the mic.

[Stugotz]

That's correct. That's right. Babs on the mic did and we borrowed it. But we hear that. I think we were among the first to introduce it to. As we. Well, we're pretty sure this is Bill Belichick. And it's not just Bill Belichick. It's clearly Bill Belichick.

[Billy Corben]

I can confirm.

[Stugotz]

And what he's doing there is the tibs work out. Have you heard Brian Scalabrine say what the tibs work out in? Still goes into the weight room. What do you think he benches? What do you think?

[Mike Ryan]

A lot.

[Roy Bellamy]

20 year olds.

[Dan LeBatard]

I would say 260.

[Greg Cody]

Man, I love this audio.

[Billy Corben]

I can't wait to know.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a three. That's a 315 guy if I've ever seen it.

[Dan LeBatard]

You think so?

[Mike Ryan]

That's a 315 guy if I've ever seen. That's three. That's three plates on each side. Three caddies on each side. Tibs, all he's got to do is this. Get short arms. Right. That's why people short arms bench so well. You just gotta go right to the chest. Right to the chest.

[Roy Bellamy]

Really have a crazy advantage in the weight room.

[Dan LeBatard]

They do.

[Roy Bellamy]

They get swole like that.

[Dan LeBatard]

They build muscle.

[Roy Bellamy]

You don't have to go as far on anything. Squats too.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's frustrating. It's very frustrating.

[Roy Bellamy]

So annoying.

[Dan LeBatard]

They're better running backs.

[Roy Bellamy]

Got cursed with these goddamn long limbs. What am I supposed to do with them?

[Stugotz]

Geez Louise, forgive me because I did not. You said Tibbs isn't tall. And I think of him as six foot. I don't think of him as short. I think of him as short. Compared to the people he's standing next to. I think he is six feet tall. I think. Do I have this wrong? I know he's a tall.

[Mike Ryan]

I have him stalking like short limbed.

[Dan LeBatard]

The UB's put it on the pole.

[Stugotz]

Hold on a second. At Lebatard show is Tibbs 6ft tall. He benches three, according to Brian Scalabrini. Brian Scalabrini is the source on this. He does a great show every morning on NBA Radio with Frank Isola. Brian Scalabrini reports that Tibbs goes into the weight room, does three, 15, 10 times, throws it back up, leaves no core, no nothing else. That's what he does. That's the Tibbs workout, and it's clearly the Belichick workout.

[Mike Ryan]

All chest.

[Stugotz]

Thank you, Tony. That's exactly what I was saying. All chest, baby. Yes. That's it.

[Dan LeBatard]

Again, there are residual benefits for the triceps.

[Roy Bellamy]

Tom Thibodeau is 6 foot 2. Kayvon Thibodeau is 6 foot 5.

[Stugotz]

Thank you. That's also very large.

[Dan LeBatard]

Both got recruited to play for Oregon by Mario Cristobal.

[Stugotz]

The funny thing about the size of basketball players, I was. I was telling Valerie this. We had really good seats one time close to the court, and she was asking me something about the small quick guy, and I'm like, the small quick guy's taller than me. And she's like, that's not true. And I'm like, no, he is so, like, people think Steve Kerr is not big. Steve Kerr is, like, almost the size of Tom Brady. And. And. And Peyton Manning.

[Roy Bellamy]

Didn't Dwyane Wade just do, like, a commerc. He was like, yeah, short people. Because everyone saw him and they're like, oh, Dwyane Wade's so short. He's like six' four.

[Stugotz]

But I think you just did that to poor Thibodeau. I don't think of him as short even. I. You made me underestimate him because he's 6 2. That's almost bigger than you. And you were making fun of his.

[Roy Bellamy]

Height listed 6:2, and he's, you know.

[Mike Ryan]

Like, with shoes on.

[Roy Bellamy]

Mid-60s. Now we're shrinking.

[Billy Corben]

Like you would think Steph Curry small. He's, like, really tall.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Roy Bellamy]

How old do you guys think Tom Thibodeau is? You'd be surprised. How old do you think he is?

[Dan LeBatard]

62, I would say. I would say 59.

[Roy Bellamy]

Huh.

[Stugotz]

I. I think that he's been made ragged by the sport and lived the single life for long enough. I'm gonna say 30 years in basketball will make him look 75, but he's 57.

[Roy Bellamy]

Any other guesses? No. Okay. He's 67 years old.

[Stugotz]

Whoa.

[Dan LeBatard]

He looks great.

[Roy Bellamy]

He looks great for 67.

[Dan LeBatard]

Looks 67 for 40 years. Time to come home, though.

[Mike Ryan]

He's got to shave the head.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, no, no. It's the secret to looking young than 67?

[Roy Bellamy]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

If he shaves his head, then he'll look.

[Stugotz]

Every secret is just go do 31510 times and leave the weight, baby.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm sorry. Is anyone working at him saying, like, I got to get on that guy's plan.

[Stugotz]

But another one at Levittart show. Is anyone looking at Tim's and saying, I've got to get on that guy's plan? Please keep that sound behind me for the rest of the show of just that creaking.

[Greg Cody]

That's my favorite audience.

[Dan LeBatard]

Gratuitous.

[Stugotz]

Let's. Let's keep doing that to Pablo and see. You know what? Don't tell Pablo that we're going to do it and see if he points out at any point, hey, what's that sound, guys? And we can say it's Bill Belichick. Clearly now, in retrospect, leaving Jordan's apartment, she may have been 19. Pablo Torre finds out. Are there birds?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, they're all beautiful. Morning bird.

[Billy Corben]

It's a good morning bird up there really early.

[Stugotz]

That felt like she really. A Sunday morning show. It's a little creek. There's a woodpecker over there. And also listen to the bird.

[Mike Ryan]

One little bird out there.

[Stugotz]

The thing about Tatum, I guess you could say it's an indictment because I, I could also say that team is so well built and wins and wins by so much that there aren't very moments to be had at the end of games like they. They don't need them to win. And it's like, like it's almost one of the greatest compliments I can give. If they weren't ruining basketball by being better at math than everybody.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, there was a lot of threes that went in. It's tough to watch when so many threes go in. Why do so many threes go in now? Why do so many threes get taken now? Someone needs to do something about this.

[Stugotz]

Do you guys understand? Like, one of the funniest thing, when I'm talking about d' Antoni, there's some great sound there from his brother. See if you can find it about the stupidity of how we were playing basketball for years. Get Patrick Ewing to try and get a contested shot that's worth two instead of taking the more valuable shot that's three. It's how Pat Riley won for years. It was always in the post. It was Kareem, it was Zoe, it was Patrick Ewing. And then the whole sport changes. And at least in part in 2010 because, oh, I can make These pterodactyls be able to guard everybody, switch with everybody, and then just be such specimens that I make everyone six, nine, and I throw a Draymond out there who's better at defense, like Draymond is to defense what Rodman is to rebound savant. I throw that in your mix and all of a sudden if I circle him with just the unbelievable shooters, I'm going to dominate the evolution for 10 years.

[Billy Corben]

There was that one season, I think it was 2013 with the heat, where for at least the first half of the season they were like against shooting threes at all. LeBron wasn't shooting threes, Wade wasn't shooting threes. Remember, led to the one game when my friend at oadrius and courtside LeBron shot a threes that game. And anyway, I do wonder, you've told this story, you've told the story before. And I do wonder, like, if we were to ask Eric Spoelstra, great coach, super smart, like, what would he say if we said to him back then in 2013, why didn't you know that maybe shooting lots of threes instead of all, all mid range shots, like, why didn't we know this earlier?

[Stugotz]

I understand how everyone could be fooled by patterns and what they're used to and not wanting to change. I mean, I'm seeing football all the time. The sport gets revolutionized by when the Buccaneers have Jameis going 30 touchdowns and 30 interceptions, they finish seven and nine. When they get Tom Brady and eliminate the interceptions, we championship. And Brady's still great, but absurd that that would happen in its 40s. Like the team was clearly good enough and they exploited the market, you know the market on turnovers, because Aaron Rodgers won an MVP by saying we'll have five turnovers a year from this position. And then late in games when you need to win, for some reason, Aaron Rodgers falls apart wherever it is that James Harden falls apart. But in Boston, they have a machine that for 18 months has been, oh, ahead of the game, dominant. Oh, Jew Holiday was really important. Porzingis, that machine 53 is a game is going to play the D' Antoni way. But OKC caught up and you're going to need to beat Shai in moments with Tatum. Like, that's how that's going to look later on. OkC just showed you how to beat Denver. They're the only thing that can make Jokic look like that. There's nothing else in the world that makes Jokic look like that. And it's just because it's feeding on him. It's young and it's feeding on an elephant that's trying to carry the entirety of championship basketball. When you saw what it did, these guys broke up after four years. Durant leaves and hates Draymond. LeBron and Wade aren't going to work together anymore. We don't want to play together. The Jokic era is right now. He's tired because how could he not be? He wants to be with his horses. He's playing more games than anybody else. And that thing's going to be fed on by the young people, because that's how competition works. It's fascinating.