The Big Suey: The Steak & The Oatmeal (feat. Domonique Foxworth and David Samson)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: The Big Suey: The Steak & The Oatmeal (featuring Domonique Foxworth and David Samson)

Date: September 5, 2025

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Overview

Broadcast live from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this episode features Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Domonique Foxworth, and David Samson as they orbit around sports, investigative reporting, league politics, and their usual comedic banter. The key focus is the NBA salary cap circumvention scandal involving Steve Ballmer and Kawhi Leonard (originally reported by Pablo Torre), with deep dives into owner dynamics, league enforcement, and the ever-fascinating sausage-making of professional sports economics. The episode also touches on recent NFL action—including Jaylen Carter and Dak Prescott—sprinkled with meta-commentary about sports media, personal jabs, and running jokes about “steak and oatmeal.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. “The Steak & The Oatmeal” – Tension, Banter, and Staging

• Banter About Show Roles & Insults
  • The episode kicks off with self-aware jabs, with Dan implying Samson is “the oatmeal,” the less exciting part of the show, compared to steak (football talk) ([01:48]).
  • This playful ribbing sets up a running joke about self-importance, sensitivity, and their dynamic:
    • Dan Le Batard: “If you have to ask who the oatmeal is, I got bad news, David.” ([02:26])
    • David Samson: “I’m sensitive. I’m tired. Whatever, dude.” ([02:35])
    • Mike: “Can we be nice to our guests?” ([03:24])

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2. The Steve Ballmer/Kawhi Leonard Salary Cap Scandal

• Samson’s Critical Breakdown of Ballmer’s ESPN Appearance

  • Samson critiques Ballmer’s handling of the scandal, calling Ramona Shelburne’s interview “the biggest softball 16 minutes I’ve ever seen” and points out missed journalistic opportunities ([04:48]).
    • David Samson: “She had an opportunity to ask him ... you invested $50 million in aspiration ... she didn’t even ask him that ... a huge missed opportunity.” ([05:22])
  • Delineates between the criminal (fraud) and league (salary cap circumvention) investigations, noting the league’s internal motivation:
    • “The government is not interested in salary cap circumvention. The government was interested in fraud. And that’s not what Pablo is discussing vis a vis Kawhi and Steve.” ([09:00])

• Follow-Ups & Holes in Ballmer’s Story

  • Samson finds Ballmer’s claims of having “proof” to refute Pablo Torre’s reporting evaporate between PR statements—casting doubt on Ballmer’s transparency and suggesting a coordinated talking-points strategy ([09:12]).
    • “What is it that you had that was provably false?... That disappeared from statement two.”
  • Raises suspicions about Ballmer’s claims of zero communication with Kawhi Leonard:
    • “That sounds a little bit like horse hockey to me ... I’m not buying it at all.” ([08:19])

• Foxworth & Dan on Burden of Proof and the NBA’s Role

  • Foxworth highlights how investigative reporting builds powerful circumstantial cases, but actionable league punishment is a different bar, lacking a “smoking gun” email ([11:17]).
    • Dominique Foxworth: “There is no like, smoking gun ... I don’t know what the burden of proof is for the NBA.”
  • Dan and Samson both discuss how major claims came from company employees:
    • Samson: “All the sources within the company who went to Pablo ... said this $28 million ... was for the purposes of salary cap circumvention.” ([13:19])

• Meta-Commentary and Humor

  • Dan jokes, “I love that Metal Lark is doing investigative reporting on no-show jobs as I look at Dan in a completely empty studio ... no-show job experts!” ([12:19])
  • Ongoing fun with “oatmeal is delicious ... steak bad for your heart” as a means of repartee ([11:06]).

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3. Owner Power Dynamics, League Politics, and The Real NBA

• Inside Baseball (and Basketball) of Owner Politics

  • Deep dive into what determines power among owners—not just net worth, but coalitions and trade-offs ([21:13]):
    • David Samson: “People often mistake rich for power ... Power comes in packs. That’s what the commissioner tries to protect against.”
  • Ballmer’s self-financing of the Clippers’ arena irks other owners, potentially fracturing alliances ([22:29]):
    • Dan: “My assumption would be the rest of the owners would be annoyed ... a group of owners salivating at the opportunity to stick it to him in this situation.”
  • Dan and Samson relate why private stadium financing sends shockwaves through leagues (“screws everything up”)—owners prefer public money ([23:06]).

• How League Decisions Actually Get Made

  • Not the faceless “commissioner” acting as dictator, but enough owners being lobbied to swing decisions:
    • Dan: “So many of the things that happen in pro sports ... the people behind the scenes with the power are most of the time lobbying enough owners or enough powerful owners ... to get what they want to happen.” ([19:28])
  • Salary cap circumvention, revenue hiding, and enforcement is itself deeply political and self-interested ([26:27]).

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4. Philosophy & Realities of Salary Caps

• Cross-Sport Salary Comparisons
  • The crew discusses why MLB stars like Juan Soto make more than NBA icons like LeBron James ([29:02]).
  • Fundamental question: Is a salary cap inherently good or bad for sports?
    • David Samson: “I’m fine without a salary cap because I don’t want a salary floor, and you can’t have one without the other.” ([30:08])
• League & Union Negotiations
  • Dan and Foxworth point out baseball’s strong union fought off a cap, but overall player revenue share lags compared to capped leagues ([30:15]):
    • Dan: “Baseball players get a smaller percentage of total revenue than the other major sports because ... players like [Soto] get enormous contracts and have a disproportionate amount of power in the union.”
  • The concept of “free agency” is critiqued as illusory—arbitration, the draft, and franchise tags tether players ([32:15]):
    • Dan: “Free agency really does not exist in pro sports. Yet we pretend as if it exists.”

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5. NFL Week 1 Reactions: Cowboys, Eagles, Jalen Carter Incident

• Jalen Carter “Spit” Story
  • Foxworth discusses whether Jaylen Carter’s post-game incident will have a lasting reputation effect:
    • Foxworth: “I don’t think that it sticks to Jalen Carter ... he’s going to dominate in the middle of that D line ... we’re not going to be like he’s the spit guy.” ([36:45])
• Narratives Around Week 1 Performances
  • Early “overreactions” flagged: CeeDee Lamb’s drops, Eagles’ wide receiver concerns, but Dak’s performance is deemed most substantive ([38:33]):
    • Dan: “Dak looked sharp last night ... I thought Dak looked sharper than Jalen Hurts.”
  • Hurts’ role as a system QB, not piling up flashy stats, is respected but seen as limiting for star receivers (A.J. Brown):
    • “I respect it ... but I don’t enjoy it as much as I enjoy watching a more diverse style of quarterback play...” ([40:29])

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6. Closing Football Thoughts: Salary Cap Fallout and the Micah Parsons Trade

• Logic Behind Questionable NFL Trades
  • Dan and Foxworth try to reverse-engineer the rationale behind Jerry Jones trading Micah Parsons, noting Dak Prescott’s ceiling and the need for bold moves in a stuck franchise ([43:32]):
    • “You have to at least extend some ... benefit of the doubt ... it’s harder to make that same rationale around the Micah Parsons decision because you can always be critical of the return.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Dan Le Batard (on show roles): “If you have to ask who the oatmeal is, I got bad news, David.” ([02:26])
• David Samson (on PR interviews): “This was the biggest softball 16 minutes I’ve ever seen.” ([05:22])
• Dominique Foxworth: “She’s a great journalist. But you’re telling me you watched that 16 minutes and you said to yourself, wow, she really asked the tough questions.” ([06:15])
• David Samson (on Ballmer/Kawhi): “That sounds a little bit like horse hockey to me... I’m not buying it at all.” ([08:19])
• Dan Le Batard: “There’s not, not like an email that says this is what we’re doing, which is hard for [Pablo].” ([11:17])
• Dan Le Batard (on owner power): “The money isn’t going to get you what you want. What will get you is some contingents of people who are willing to sacrifice ... and push for the things that you want.” ([24:34])
• Dan Le Batard: “Free agency really does not exist in pro sports. Yet we pretend as if it exists.” ([32:15])

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Important Timestamps

• Comedic Opening & Oatmeal/Steak Banter: 01:01 – 04:22
• Ballmer Interview Dissection: 04:48 – 10:35
• Salary Cap, League, and Owner Dynamics: 19:28 – 28:25
• Salary Cap Philosophy: 29:02 – 33:23
• NFL Week 1 Analysis: 36:45 – 41:57
• Final Thoughts on NFL Trades & Studio Shout-outs: 43:32 – 45:45

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Conclusion

This episode balances trademark Dan Le Batard humor and camaraderie with standout sports journalism analysis. The hosts, alongside Foxworth and Samson, cut deep into the Ballmer salary cap scandal, the realpolitik of NBA owners, and perennial debates over salary caps, providing listeners with both an insider’s view and the usual irreverent perspective. The layered, multi-voice conversation, punctuated by recurring jokes and insightful breakdowns, gives both hardcore fans and newcomers a rich look at why league power struggles and off-field stories are every bit as fascinating as what happens on the court or field.

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Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show.

[David Sampson]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast?

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm sorry, I'm not gonna apologize for that.

[Dominique Foxworth]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've done it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat face and the habitual liar.

[David Sampson]

This episode of the Dan Lebatard Show.

[Dan Le Batard]

Stugats is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique Foxworth is going to spend the hour with us. We're going to go in and out of football. Maybe I can get him to argue with David Sampson about what I was just saying about the salary cap because I don't imagine that they agree on this. But before we get to David, Dominique, real quick, I want to go to David Sampson because I want to ask him about that Ballmer interview. And he's more informed than most here when he's looked at all of these legal documents and he has read the fine print on what it is that Pablo's reporting is. So thank you, gentlemen for joining us. And before we get to David's expertise on this, just tell me what your thoughts are. Bad judgment about the salary cap. I'm going to both of you here.

[Dan Le Batard]

Bad judgment. Just bad judgment. You got to, you got, you got an opportunity, right? You have a choice. You have a choice. There's some steak in front of you and there's some day old oatmeal. And you're like, hey, hey, guys, we're gonna get to the steak, but let's kick it off with a question for the oatmeal. Anyway, back to you, Dan.

[Dominique Foxworth]

The oatmeal.

[Dan Le Batard]

What.

[David Sampson]

What does that even mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Day old oatmeal.

[David Sampson]

Are you talking about the story or are you talking about me?

[Dan Le Batard]

Go ahead, do your show, buddy. Knock yourself out, big dog.

[David Sampson]

No, I. I'm not gonna say a word until you answer that question. Are you calling the Pablo story with Ballmer the oatmeal because NFL football season started? Or are you calling you the steak and me the oatmeal?

[Dan Le Batard]

If you have to ask who the.

[David Sampson]

Oatmeal is, I got bad news, David. I don't need to be here. Dan, enjoy your time with Foxworth.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'll let people figure it out.

[David Sampson]

Dominique, for what? I'm sensitive. I'm tired. Whatever, dude.

[Dan Le Batard]

What are you tired of?

[David Sampson]

Sensitive? It's ridiculous.

[Dan Le Batard]

Are you happy?

[David Sampson]

Ridiculous start to the show. It's a great start.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's a great start. You know what is entertaining? Tension. You know what we got?

[David Sampson]

No, because I don't have tension.

[Dan Le Batard]

But tension.

[David Sampson]

No, it's not idiocy.

[Mike]

We now turn to our chief. Shit. Sir. To broker peace. Dan, make this right.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Well, so, Chris, were you saying that if. If you're. If you don't know who the oatmeal.

[Mike]

Is, then you're the bad job making it, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

Zagak. David, you're super rich. Why do you put up with this?

[Mike]

You shouldn't be doing this.

[Dan Le Batard]

I agree.

[Mike]

I'm on David's side. I should not subject yourself to this.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why put up with nonsense, David?

[Mike]

I was here four seconds. Was called oatmeal. Can we be nice to our guests?

[Dominique Foxworth]

First of all, Dominique came here. No, look, you guys missed what actually happened. Dominique rolling in and telling me how to do my show. First of all, that's what just happened.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who can't get better? Are you uncoachable now? I mean, I feel like everyone needs some coaching, right?

[Dominique Foxworth]

There's coaching abilities, coaching private. There's coaching in public. And we.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm a football player, man. We do this in public. You get cooked. You get cooked. Everybody know you got burnt. Oh, I got to sneak. Behind closed doors. I'm not afraid. Sometimes I mess up. We talk about messing up. Sometimes you mess up. We got to talk about messing up. It's okay. Don't mean you're a bad person. It just mean you need a little coaching, baby. I'm just saying.

[David Sampson]

Are you angry?

[Dan Le Batard]

You can dress up oatmeal. You can put fruit in it. Maple syrup, brown sugar, bananas.

[David Sampson]

Some raisins.

[Mike]

Raisins. Right now at this time, I'm more in the mood for oatmeal.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yep. Yeah, exactly. It's morning time. It was a compliment.

[Mike]

High in fiber.

[Dan Le Batard]

We steak for breakfast.

[Dominique Foxworth]

We seem a long way removed from these days when. When David Sampson jumped into Dominique's arms like a spider monkey and they enjoyed a long embrace. David, we're having you on because of the Ballmer interview, and you're informed. So tell me what, what are the holes that can be poked in that Ballmer interview when he's coming out there and doing the public relations crisis move?

[David Sampson]

Well, you have to understand that there's two things happening. One, there is the criminal part of this, which is the fraud, which is the reason why there's a guilty plea by one of the co founders of Aspiration. You do not want to talk about Aspiration publicly. You don't want to do anything where there is any sort of ongoing investigation very different than what the NBA is doing. That's an internal investigation where, yes, he could be suspended, he could be fined, but it's not criminal in any way. So he chooses ESPN instead of Pablo. He chooses Shelbourne, Ramona instead of doing it with what I would call an area where there's going to be a serious journalist asking questions. Because this was the biggest softball 16 minutes I've ever seen. She had an opportunity to ask him, I'm sorry, you introduced Aspiration to Kawhi Leonard, and then that's the last you heard from either one of them yet you invested $50 million in aspiration, yet Kawhi Leonard is your close friend, player, and no other conversation took place. She didn't even ask him that. He just stated on the interview. Yeah, introduced him. That's totally legal under the cba. And that's it. That was the end of the story. And that's a huge missed opportunity. And I don't know whether she had been given the questions or he had been given.

[Dominique Foxworth]

David, David, David. She's a good journalist, but this is deep water. This is deep water stuff here. And Pablo's done seven months of research and yes.

[David Sampson]

Why would she agree to do it then if you're. If you're not going to do it? She's a great journalist. But you're telling me you watched that 16 minutes and you said to yourself, wow, she really asked the tough questions.

[Dominique Foxworth]

No, I did not think that. But I think it's hard for people to ask the tough questions right now given that everyone is really far behind behind on this story.

[David Sampson]

But when he says he, you can just go by what he said in the interview, because he had talking points, obviously from. It may have even been from the NBA. It's not a coincidence that he sat down with espn. It's not a coincidence that it happened yesterday because he's had two statements now and one interview. And the NBA has an ongoing investigation. So if there's nothing going on, there is no reason to give any sort of interview. And the one he gave to me made it even worse. When he was asked, why did you. Why did they give Kawhi so much money? A reasonable question that he should have been prepared to answer. His only answer was, I don't know how much money. Well, it's right there. And the Pablo Torre finds out it was $28 million. And so she said to him, hey, it's $28 million.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And.

[David Sampson]

And his answer was, yeah, I got conned also. So Kawhi and I together got scammed by scammers. But that was not and should not have been the point of the interview. The point should have been, hey, Steve, did you not communicate with Kawhi at all about what this was? But we never heard it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

What are the other holes in the interview worth noting?

[David Sampson]

I think that it's important to know that. That he said specifically that there's a lot of mystery around Kawhi Leonard. He doesn't speak much. So then my next question would have been, had I been sitting there, well, then, Steve, why did a company invest $28 million in him to be a pitch person? If he is a man of mystery who doesn't speak much, doesn't it need to be the opposite? I found that to be surprising. Number three, he said he has not spoken with Kawhi at all about this. That sounds a little bit like horse hockey to me. Because when a player is owed money, and Dominique can speak to this, once you get out your steak knife, if you are owed money, the player and the agent tend to call the team president or owner and say, excuse me, where's my money? I'm having a problem collecting from this company that you are an owner of. But there's been no conversation between the two of them. I'm not buying it at all.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Any other things that we should know? Because again, I want. I want everyone to know that when you're talking about 3,000 documents and seven months of work, there's a lot of stuff that David has gone through here. What else should have been asked last night that wasn't asked? And. And what are some things that Ballmer could do better as someone who knows what crisis management and public relations management has to look like?

[David Sampson]

Well, let me start with number one in statement one given to the PTFO episode when it aired it said that he has information that will prove Pablo's allegations to be false. And Ramona said, well, you know, provably false. That disappeared from statement two. When they released another statement, they no longer included those words. So what is it that you had that was provably false? And Palmer said, I have emails of introduction that I gave over to the government as part of discovery as part of a criminal investigation. I gave them all the emails. All it is is, hey, aspiration, meet Kawhi. Hey, Kawhi, meet aspiration. Well, that's not sufficient. What you could have followed up with, well, what else was part of the negotiation with Uncle Dennis that was not part of the discovery. Because remember, the government is not interested in salary cap circumvention. The government was interested in fraud. And that's not what Pablo is discussing vis a vis Kawhi and Steve. So instead of conflating the issues, we could separate them and then get Steve to answer questions. And what I would have advised him, Dan is under no circumstances to speak with ESPN until you are more prepared. And you've got to deal with Adam Silver as to what your punishment is going to be.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique, do you have any thoughts here about the last three days that include Mark Cuban on Pablo Torre finds out this morning?

[Dan Le Batard]

Lots of, lots of thoughts. So the first thought is David is fun and I like David and we worked really hard and I thought David and I built a relationship that was more locker room adjacent and like you rib your friends. So, David, I would like to extend an apology. I meant no disrespect. You're a sweetheart and oatmeal is freaking delicious. That aside, healthy and good for you. And good for you like I I and steak bad for your heart. Not, not too much steak. Oatmeal, it ain't bad for nothing. It's delicious. Add a little I would love to.

[David Sampson]

Be your brown sugar. Dominique, we're going to be my brown sugar.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hold on now you got too far. Try to try to be your friend and try to make up with you and you go too far. I feel like you're hitting on me or which combined with your daddy combined with the fact that you koalaed me, like, yeah, I'm getting a little concerned. But fortunately we're not in the same location. But as for the Kawhi Leonard story, there's a number of things that jump out to me first, like, what is the burden of proof? Because I listened to Pablo's episode and I've been reading the stuff that's coming out. And I think Pablo does a great job of building a case around a lot of like insinuation which like it seems obvious to all of us and we can go back through all the facts in his case but there is no like smoking gun. Like there's an email that says this and I don't know what the burden of proof is for the NBA for these type of things. So that's the question when they say provably false that extends. That creates a burden for them that I think is much higher than they probably want, which is why it probably came out of it took out a future statements. But I think Pablo, there's not, not like an email that says this is what we're doing, which is hard for him. The other thing that is just hilarious is I love that Metal ARC is doing investigative research on no show jobs. As I look at Dan and a completely empty studio like you guys are no show job experts out there knocking it out the park. Look at lonely Dan. I love it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I didn't have to work Fridays last year.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's so much fun. Also can I say one more thing about that Pablo? I get that Pablo's doing reporting and a true journalist does not care who he takes down, but salary cap circumvention kind of awesome. It's kind of great. The guys who are the most valuable and most talented have a unfair and illegal in most industries cap put on their wages and finding a way to get them some money. I get that is breaking a rule. But some rules need to be broken.

[David Sampson]

You're saying that there was no anything that Pablo had other than insinuation. I should point out that the circum salary cap circumvention came from all the sources within the company who went to Pablo. And one of them on the record in a modulated voice said yeah, that's what we were told. That this $28 million completely out of market endorsement deal was for the purposes of salary cap circumvention. So it was not Pablo actually who made this and tried to put pieces of a puzzle together using froggy DNA. It was the employees of the company.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don't. Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that Pablo's wrong and I'm not suggesting that his story is not based in enough fact to go with like. I don't think that he would put himself at legal risk in that way. My point is that if anything is going to come out of this, I don't know what the NBA needs for proof and I don't know if anyone is going to speak to the NBA after if the biggest, most damning evidence they have is someone in the company said it. I'm not sure that anybody in that company at this point, given what's happening is interested or, well, former company, I guess, is interested in stepping up and telling NBA that or even if that's enough to hold water. So I think it doesn't necessarily matter to to Pablo if Ballmer or the Clippers are punished. It matters to the rest of the teams in the league. My only point is I'm not sure that something will come of this because it's a little different if you're like, hey, like Pablo's previous reports had like real documents that had actual names and like explicit reasons for things happening. So I think that's. I don't mean this as a criticism of Pablo. I just mean this as going forward. Is anything going to come of it? That's what the question kind of floating around in my head.

[Mike]

Hey listeners, it's Mike. Hey, Billy Gill.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hey.

[Mike]

Hey Billy, as a proud member of your inner circle, remember when we were hanging out last weekend?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. Fishtail Palms.

[Mike]

Fishtail Palms. Great memories we made. Kids playing in the pool. Pool. And in our hands, a nice ice cold can of Miller Light. It was so hot out.

[David Sampson]

I know, but it was so cold in my hand.

[Mike]

We took that first sip. It was crisp. It was refreshing. Oh man, there is nothing like cracking open a Miller Light with your crew and your inner circle bones.

[David Sampson]

Hell yeah, we fist bumped.

[Mike]

Whether it's we we actually really did. Whether it's that touchdown didn't make a.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sound, but it just thought bam.

[David Sampson]

Boom.

[Mike]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Billy. What?

[Mike]

It's just 96 calories.

[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Mike]

3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite Great Taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

What's up listeners?

[David Sampson]

I don't know about you but when I was a kid I certainly dreamed big.

[Mike]

I think when we were all kids.

[David Sampson]

We dreamed big whether we wanted to be astronauts, presidents.

[Dan Le Batard]

Personally I wanted to be a pitcher for the then Florida Marlins. Now we're dreaming of something else like owning our own businesses.

[David Sampson]

But let's be honest, launching it is total chaos.

[Dan Le Batard]

Websites and shipping, your cousin who wants.

[David Sampson]

To collaborate, it's a mess.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's where Shopify comes in.

[David Sampson]

They power 10% of all E commerce.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. You're getting sexier by the moment. Slow down. We haven't even gotten stug going to Jason Sanders. You're unnoticed. Wow.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Oh my God.

[Mike]

What in spite of him.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh wow. I love you Duke. This is the D ler show with the st gods foreign.

[David Sampson]

I think I'm Mark Cuban show on Pablo's show that it drops that I watched at 5am and I don't know why Dan you have him as head of metal arc why he's dropping episodes at 5am Although it's fantastic for me but for for those who are not you and I actually are the only people I know watching it at 5am but that said Cuban said something fascinating on that episode that's out right now where he said I'm team Ballmer however if it's true then I am team mavericks. I own 27 of the Mavericks and they're done the the GM any executives bomber and that would be great for the mavericks and Adam Silver's right now taking the temperature of 29 men Cuban not amongst them exactly to figure out exactly how deep and far Adam Silver has to go.

[Dan Le Batard]

I think that's the interesting part too is that we often misunderstand that like the league or the commissioner is in charge and running the show and like policing all of this. So many of the things that happen in pro sports like that we view as the league coming down on a team or owner or player or an organization or a partner. Like we view that as like the commissioner and this like faceless league is doing it. No, the people behind the scenes with the power are most of the time lobbying the support enough owners or enough powerful owners to get the what they want to happen to happen. And like we see it, we saw it often in with like deflate gate and bounty gate and those sorts of things in NFL it seems like it's more of a reaction and honestly this like swing to more punitive punishments for players who were mixed up in any sort of allegations like that comes from the owners. And my guess is that if the decision to move forward with the Ballmer allegations in the past was not driven by the owners, the decision for what they will do now or will be driven by the owners and how they feel about it and what they want done about it. But Ballmer happens to be one of the more powerful owners. So like that plays a part in the and the leverage because what's going to happen is just like any political situation is you want your friends and you have to trade favors oftentimes to be able to get the things that you want. So if you are seen as the owner who's rallying support around some punishment for Ballmer, then when the things come up when you, your organization gets in trouble or you want a rule changed or you do want more revenue sharing, you're not going to be able to call on Ballmer to get that vote. So that's how a lot of times these things behind the scenes work, which I guess maybe I shouldn't be saying that. Maybe. David, you disagree?

[David Sampson]

No, I think it's interesting. When you're inside the room and you're talking about owner v. Owner, you definitely have to think about revenue sharing. You think about who's got the power. But people often mistake rich for power. The richest owner in baseball when I entered was a guy named Carl Polad, who was the owner of the Minnesota Twins, a team that was going to be contracted. They didn't have a new ballpark at Target Field. They were playing at the Metrodome. So there's not necessarily a correlation. Steve cone, he could not. He's the richest owner in baseball. He couldn't get 23 votes together right now to do what he wants at all. So when you say that Steve Ballmer is the seventh richest guy, and I think Pablo corrected it, he's now seven. There's been some sort of downtick in Microsoft, I guess. Seventh richest guy, not the sixth. So at the end, he doesn't make him the most powerful owner because the power comes in packs. And that's what the commissioner tries to protect against, is too many different packs and having any one of them be enough to block any sort of vote. So that's why Adam is going right now figuring out, and he's annoyed with all this. And NBA executives have said internally that the NBA is furious about Pablo in this report because they're forced to scurry around and deal with the 29 owners on an issue they'd rather not talk about.

[Dan Le Batard]

How do the owners, other owners feel about Ballmer self financing the stadium? Because, like, when that happened, I know we all as fans are like, cool, finally one of these guys who can afford it, can pay for it. But my assumption would be the rest of the owners would be annoyed by creating that sort of expectation and frustrated, which would put Ballmer in a situation where he's costing these guys billions of dollars, which would make him probably not the most popular and not have the most power. It would have a group owners salivating the opportunity to stick it to him in this situation.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, I don't want to open up an old Woo Dominique, but I'll tell you, when we did Marlin's park deal, the other owners were not happy with it because it was not enough public money. And I know it's going to sound crazy to Mike and to Billy, but when the San Francisco Giants did a fully private stadium, the only reason they did that is that there was a threat to move to Tampa back then and they needed Tampa as an expansion city. And there was no public money coming fast enough and they had to get out of Candlestick. So they do not like private financing of buildings because it screws everything up in the NFL. Nobody does a new stadium in the NFL without public financing.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I mean, I remember clearly from the CBA negotiators I participated in. It was when I got my eyes open to, like, how there are divisions and there is a political fight inside all of that is Jerry Jones was more upset with other owners than he was with players. He was one of the owners who wanted to get back on the field and the things that he wanted more than anything was a requirement and an incentive for. For teams to generate more local revenue. And then like it all became kind of clear and crystallized me is that it's no different than any other collection of people that the power. It comes from some. Some mass of opinions in group, like no individual. To your point, the money isn't there or the money itself isn't going to get you anything, just like in the rest of the world. Like, the money isn't going to get you what you want. What will get you, that is some contingents of people who are willing to sacrifice and. And make decisions and push for the things that you want. And the idea of them having to work in that way is, I don't know, entertaining. Dave, you should write a script about that.

[David Sampson]

You've written a script.

[Dan Le Batard]

Not about that, though.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Billy's been trying to ask you guys a question for about seven minutes. Is it funny?

[Dan Le Batard]

We need to be funny. Like. So this is Dan. I'm sorry to take over and pretend.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Billy, you were trying to ask a question. I'll take my show back here and ask you to ask the question.

[Dan Le Batard]

Way to go. CR Them things, Dan. Well, I was going to say, how crazy is it to think that the owners don't actually want Steve Ballmer to be disciplined here? Right? Because once you kind of.

[David Sampson]

Even if he is proven to have.

[Dan Le Batard]

Been cheating against them, we're pretending like the rest of them are all clean and they want people kind of looking into what they've been doing to potentially skirt salary cap. Also, I would think the owners wouldn't really want him to be disciplined, even though he may or may not have cheated to get an upper hand against them.

[David Sampson]

I think they do, actually, because I think they will want him punished, and I think he's going to get punished because there's not only the fact that it's great to bring down the big guy, baseball would do anything to find Stevie cone continuing to do the things in baseball that he did with his business that he got in trouble for. But when it comes to what Ballmer did, there's also the question of what amount of revenue may have been hidden from the books of the Clippers, which would change the finances and the money that's going between teams. We spent time, Billy, every day trying to sneak around and see whether the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Cardinals, whether they were hiding revenue. And we would go. One of the reasons we go on the road with the team is you're looking around, you're keeping track of their signage behind the plate, outfield Wall. You're looking at different promotions because you have a way to audit what revenue they're actually announcing as part of revenue sharing. So that's real.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm sorry, the basketball union, when I worked there, like we were, we had to audit basketball related revenue because they were like hiding money essentially. And we got a bunch of money back. It's something that you do on a regular basis. And you can think about again this Jer Jones and Robert Kraft, the reporting that has Jerry Jones trying to keep Robert Kraft out of hall of Fame. I think some of the motivation is personal, some of the motivation is professional. And I my guess would be there are a lot of different things driving teams. Some of it is making more money, some of is winning championships. My guess is that small market teams definitely want to do something about this. They're probably also. That's like a voting block generally. And they are always trying to do something to be able to level the playing field because there is no other way that they can compete if you're going to circumvent the cap. And I think generally all the owners, even if they are doing this, they don't want to be doing this. They would like to be. If the. If they've created the expectation amongst the greatest of players that there's going to be some sort of side deal, they would like to eliminate that expectation. My guess is because that's costing them more money. That's normally the driving force behind all the decisions that are made from the ownership and league side is like, how can we make more money? We want to play a game in Brazil. Hell yeah. This is going to help grow our game. We want to add another game to the end of the season. Sure. Do you want to reduce the salary cap? Was it just general? You want to motivate guys to have higher local revenue? Like that's normally a good starting place for the decision. Of course, emotional things might make you because you hate another owner or whatever that might make you make a different decision or you owe it to someone else. But generally if they can find a way to get on the same page, it's always about reducing the overhead cost and putting more money in their pockets. I'm guessing that's the starting point. If something else other than that happens, it's going to be for either some sort of personal reason. And I don't think it's fear that they'll get caught doing it. Also because I think they want to stop. So be happy for it to be over.

[David Sampson]

Dominique, it's interesting you talk about salary cap versus non salary cap. What's not counted in the salary cap is what your off court expenses are. And one of the ways that teams like the Clippers or teams like the Dodgers flex is they spend a tremendous amount of money. And I almost had the votes you needed to 23 didn't have it. But damn close to put a salary cap on off field expenses within baseball front offices. Because what's happening is and the Clippers are doing this, the Dodgers definitely do this, you're getting spent to death. And Alabama, a lot of the teams can't keep up.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Let me ask you guys this before I let you go again. Nothing Personal is the name of the podcast David covers terrain that no one else in the podcast space is covering. I don't know how you guys feel about the general existence of a salary cap. I was saying before you came on here, it's asinine that Juan Soto is going to make $200 million more guaranteed, even though if he doesn't play another game today from injury than LeBron James made in a career that was six years longer. Tell me David, how you feel about the salary cap. And Dominique, you chime in here wherever it is you disagree.

[David Sampson]

I think that the difference you're comparing apples to oranges and Juan Soto is a lot younger than LeBron James. And so you have to look at also times there are players who played in the 80s and 90s who should have in theory look at, by the way, look at the career earnings of Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan and then compare to some of the schleppers in the NBA who will make more in their career.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Again, how do you feel about the salary cap as a concept? Baseball does not have one and therefore its players get bigger guaranteed contracts.

[David Sampson]

I'm fine without a salary cap because I don't want a salary floor and you can't have one without the other. And that's been the big, big problem within baseball.

[Dan Le Batard]

I think that's a good point by David and I think it's one of the risky things I think about getting engaged in any of these sort of arguments is that all of this stuff can be manipulated. Like there's tons of different levers. And when you focus on the salary cap itself as the only lever, there are other ways around it because baseball is celebrated and deservedly so for being a very strong union that has fought off the salary cap. But they have found other ways to suppress the salaries. Like, like by a division of revenue. I think the last time I saw was probably like six to eight years ago, baseball players get a smaller percentage of total revenue than the other major sports because Juan stto and players like that get enormous contracts and have a disproportionate amount of power in the union. The salary cap is a thing that we all focus on. And I think baseball players celebrate, like, look at us, we fought off the salary cap again while they are at like 40% of league revenue. And it's just like, no, David loves. It's just the idea where you think about it, it's like, yeah, we got this. So in football, we think about it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You got to get both, though. You got. When you've got the power of mahomes or lebron James, what you have to get is both. No salary cap and not any of the other restrictions that are given away. Because look at how David. David's sitting here smiling because he knows what the players were given. David knows how many negotiations he's gone into where. Where they're like, oh, you want more Mike and Ikes in the clubhouse? Sure, we'll do that for you. And we're going to grab this hundred million dollars over here when you're not looking.

[David Sampson]

And Dominique, I would hate to have you on the other side of any of these negotiations because you just did it. You actually put in words the exact thing that baseball union has not been able to put in words, where you put forward the salary cap. Salary cap, salary cap. All right, we'll give up on that, but we'll take a debt service rule, will take a luxury tax threshold that's at $217 million and will still only give you 46% of revenue. But it's up to us whatever number we want to get to.

[Dan Le Batard]

And then you. And. And then you win the press conference every year when you sign somebody to a. To a $200 million contract or a billion dollar contract, and then we all are like, man, baseball's killing it. Then you look at it, and I mean, I felt the same way. I was researching to do an episode about free agency and the salary cap. I ended up not doing it yet. We might do it later, but it was just the point that we celebrate what we consider modern day free agency in the NFL and other sports. But free agency really does not exist in pro sports. Yet. We pretend as if it exists. But like all of these arbitrations, the draft, like in the franchise tag, like all of these things act against restrictive free agencies. They act against keeping you to true free agency. But we call it free agency, and you guys call it free agency too. And we're all like, yeah, we're free agents. And in the back room you're stuffing money in your pockets.

[David Sampson]

You're just not free that I just want to be clear, it's not about stuffing money in the pockets. It's using the word free agency and go all the way back to Curt Flood. Do whatever you want, but make no mistake, there's nothing free about players.

[Dominique Foxworth]

David Sampson, get out of here. Good talking to you. Nothing Personal is the name of the podcast. He's done a lot of good work with Pablo and they have advanced.

[Dan Le Batard]

The story's been Love you too.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Here on on Pablo, Tori finds out which dropped at 5 o' clock this morning with Mark Cuban.

[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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Epglis.Lily.Com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Don LeBatard I took my son to the barbershop, get a haircut and my man gave out some limp dap. Oh no.

[Mike]

Damn, damn, damn Stu.

[Dan Le Batard]

I disowned him. I threw him right under the bus. I was like, whose kid is that out here dishing out limp dap? This is the Dan lebatar Show with the St. Gods.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique, your thoughts last night from the game. Will that stick to Jaylen Carter? Will everything that happened there stick to him?

[Dan Le Batard]

Him? I don't think so. I think his interview after the game, he seemed to be much more in control of his emotions and behavior, and the way that he discussed it seemed to be fine. I think a lot of how we react to this is how we feel about a player before he does something like this and how he handles it. I think Jalen Carter had moved to a place that he distanced himself from some of the the issues that he had in college and had become. The story about him was him being a great player. And then after the game he handled it as well as I think you could handle a situation like that. So I don't think that it sticks to him. And honestly, there is a plausible, like the the video of Dak, like there's a plausible defense for him. Not that it makes it right or that I believe that Dak was trying to spit on him, but I don't think that sticks to Jalen Carter. He's going to dominate in the middle of that D line for years to and we're not going to be like he's the spit guy that's not going to stick to him in any way.

[Mike]

So there's some hyperbolic takes going on right now. One game sample we were all hungry for football. So some of the narratives that are out there is CD Lambs drops hurting the Cowboys and now everyone's kind of really putting that aspect of his game under a microscope. You have the lack of production from the wide receivers at Philadelphia, A.J. brown being that talking point and you also have Dak Prescott looking good, slimmed down, looking healthy, looking like Dallas can be better. Which of those three takes that are kind of running wild right now on social media are probably the most relevant and have the most juice to them.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I mean I think the Dak Prescott one is the most relevant. That was the hope is that this team only chance of winning is having two really effective receivers and a quarterback like Dak, who I think is one of those guys. I remember Tom Brady made the point not too long ago that the modern quarterbacks aren't, aren't like making decisions at the line. They aren't the classic Peyton Manning field general types. That's exactly what Dak Prescott is like. That's kind of what he does best. And he looked, he looked sharp last night. And it's funny how the stats can skew the performance because he had like a 50 something QBR when I was like Dak looked great and Jalen Hurts had like a 98qbr which is insanely high. Not that he wasn't that good, but I thought Dak looked sharper than Jalen Hurts last night. So I think the Dak point, we know how high his ceiling can be and we know that this defense is going to have some issues, but I think that will make this team competitive if he can stay healthy and he can be awesome all season long. As for the other ones like CD had some drop issues last year but I don't expect that to be a long term lasting concern. And there are a couple other things that I think are interesting about this game that to your point, we don't want to overreact. The Eagles lost a couple like to the Bucks early last year. They lost another I think NFC south team early last year.

[Dominique Foxworth]

They were bad at the start of the season.

[Mike]

Yeah. Kellen Moore did kind of reshape the offense after that Bucs loss. That was a transformative loss for their chances.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique says, though I'll let you continue your point here. Please staple it to what it is that you're saying here. I have a hard time with what the analysis of Jalen Hurts is, because when I watch him play, it's always going to be some form of a 11 for 14. And, oh, it's a. It's a buck 50. And over the last couple of years, we've seen a lot of these quarterbacks are going for 150 yards because the game has changed, and he's got so much help that I have a hard time doing individual measurements with him.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I mean, I think the idea of having to do individual measurements is, like, born of sports media in general, which is fine. It's something that we have to do, but it don't really matter. Like, he's not. He's not playing tennis. Like, I switched over last night to the US Open a little bit, and, like, that's somebody out there all alone. Like Jalen Hurts. It doesn't matter. As long as this team is built the way that they're built, then it's pretty clear that he's capable of operating this at a high level. And yesterday, it's his. It feels like he's not listening to the noise, which I think is hard. And I mean that because a lot of players would take this as a challenge, they would enter the season. And honestly, I thought Jalen Hurts was going to enter this season and try to put up numbers to be able to say, like, I'm just like these other guys. But he's like, nah, it's third down. Or actually, he did on first down a bunch of times. It's first and 10. You guys gonna play, man, or you're not gonna blitz me? I'm gonna run it. I'm not looking to trick you into believing that I'm something that I don't have to be be. And I will do that if. If it's called on me. Like, we saw. We've seen him be able to win the game with his arm before, but it's a lot less risky to do it with your legs. And, like, I. I guess I respect it. I don't enjoy it as much as I enjoy watching a more diverse style of quarterback play, but I respect it. And you know who probably don't like it? A.J. brown. It's gonna be a. It's gonna be. It appears it might be a long year for my guy, A.J. brown.

[Mike]

There's always something with A.J.

[Dan Le Batard]

Brown.

[Mike]

One thing's for sure, though, both these teams seem fun to watch live. Those tickets are going to be highly in demand, Dominique. And if you're like me, you like to travel the country and watch some great football with iconic brands, hard to find tickets sometimes on the primary market. So you know where I turn to, Dominique? I turn to game time. I take the guesswork out of buying my NFL tickets with game time. Go ahead and download the app right now, Dominique. Create an account. Use code dan for $20 off your first purchase. Okay, that's cool. Code Dan terms apply. Swipe, tap, ticket, go.

[Dominique Foxworth]

As football season is here, Dominique, I want to ask you about something I've been parroting over the last couple of weeks since the Micah Parsons trade, where I am saying, if you are inclined to somehow try to figure out how Jerry Jones can defend this as a football move beyond run defense, we need to improve our run defense. The way that you make the argument on behalf of Jerry Jones trading Micah Parsons is, is he realizes that he's got an expensive quarterback in his 10th year who's not going to get better and he's lost the division to cheaper quarterbacks who are younger who may indeed get better in Jaden Daniels and Jalen hurts. Mike pointed out earlier, Jalen hurts not so cheap anymore, actually. But the point stands on you've got two in your division that are better than you, younger than you, and Dak is in his 10th season. Dak is good for 12 wins a season. But if you want to correct the gulf between you and them, you have to do something about the fact that Dax not going to get any better than what it is you saw last night.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I appreciate that you are trying to do this. Like, I got into an argument on get up because I was doing the same thing after a full summer of saying, what is Jerry doing? Jerry's mishandling this. And then a week of us all saying, how did he blow this? This was such a bad trade. I was like, well, let's try to figure out how this would make sense. And everyone said I was stupid. But like, like, you have to at least extend some, like, benefit of the doubt to try to understand this. And like, I guess it was the Pinnock draft where I was kind of on an island where my point was. And that point was you don't let Kirk Cousins keep you from drafting a franchise which you believe could be a franchise, changing quarterback if it comes up, it's harder to make that same rationale around the Micah Parsons decision because you can always be critical of the return for a player of that value. However, the logic behind it, like, it kind of feels stable where it's, this team went 12 and 5 for three years in a row and did not get close to winning a Super Bowl. If we are going to rebuild this team or we're going to win the super bowl soon, we're going to have to make some drastic changes. The problem is, you wish that Jerry Jones would have made this decision in March and gotten a better price for it, but it doesn't change the fact that I understand the logic behind it. It's just the value that he got for it seemed like a mistake and also like there was no. I'm happy that a player demanded a trade and got a trade, but also if he wasn't going to be out there, then you could have waited and tried to get more, but it's just being critical. It's one of the other things that's completely, like, difficult about having your GM and your owner be the same person, is if this was about personal feelings, which a lot of people said it is between the GM and the player. That's why the owner's there, because he can show up and say, all right, I don't care about your feelings. This guy's a great football player. We're going to sign.

[Dominique Foxworth]

We will talk to you again next week. And your. Dude, your studio. Your studio looks nice, dude.

[Mike]

We've been talking about it all day.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Your student. You look nice.

[Dan Le Batard]

You look great.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You look clean.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's all right.

[Dominique Foxworth]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, man.

[Dominique Foxworth]

David Sampson Brown Sugar.

[Dan Le Batard]

Goodbye, guys.

[Mike]

Hey, listeners, it's Mike. Hey, Billy Gill.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hey. Hey, Billy.

[Mike]

As a proud member of your inner circle, remember when we were hanging out last weekend?

[David Sampson]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Fishtail palms.

[Mike]

Fishtail palms. The great memories we made. Kids playing in the pool. And in our hands, a nice ice cold pan of Miller. It was so hot out.

[David Sampson]

I know, but it was so cold in my hand.

[Mike]

We took that first sip. It was crisp. It was refreshing. Oh, man, there is nothing like cracking open a Miller Light with your crew and your inner circle bones.

[David Sampson]

Hell, yeah, we fist bumped.

[Mike]

Whether it's. We. We actually really did. Whether it's that touchdown, make a sound.

[Dan Le Batard]

But it just thought, bam, boom.

[Mike]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Billy. What?

[Mike]

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[Dan Le Batard]

What?

[Mike]

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