The Big Suey: The Tushy Pushy (feat. David Samson)

Summary

The Big Suey: The Tushy Pushy (feat. David Samson)

Podcast: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Date: September 4, 2025
Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Mike Ryan, Tony, Dazzlo, Billy Gill
Guest: David Samson

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Episode Overview

Broadcast from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this episode of “The Big Suey” dives into the intersections of sports business, media access, streaming confusion, owner exclusivity, and a high-profile NBA salary cap controversy. Featuring David Samson and the regular crew, the team debates the ever-expanding cost and fragmentation of watching sports, the shifting sands of owner “clubs,” and the behind-the-scenes machinations brought to light by Pablo Torre’s reporting on NBA salary cap circumvention.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Price and Confusion of Sports Media (03:37, 04:21)

• Streaming Overload: The crew riffs on how watching sports has gotten more expensive and complex due to the rise of streaming services. Mike Ryan notes fans now need to pay “more and more and more to find sports in more and more and more places.”
• NFL Media Rights Hot Potato: Dazzlo recalls the days when you got three games for free on CBS and Fox. Now, “you just have to pay for it where before you didn’t have the option,” highlighting a trade-off between availability and cost.
• Demographic Disinterest: Dan contends, “Frankly, your demographic is not interesting to the NFL, its sponsors, or its partners. You’ve aged out” (04:21).

2. Five Minutes With an Elusive Owner – Mickey Arison (02:02, 02:24, 11:17)

• Media Access Gamesmanship: Mike Ryan debates whether to accept a rare five-minute interview with Miami Heat owner Mickey Arison and whether it’s possible to ask tough questions in such a short window.
• What To Ask?: The crew jokes about asking Arison directly about the NBA’s most sensitive headlines: “salary cap circumvention,” “Saudis,” "Kushner," and even “vaccines” (11:02–11:50).
• Interviewer’s Dilemma: Mike fears, “This is a no win position for me right now because you want me to ask a guy who’s given five minutes to…do you think that was…that’s what Rachel Nichols is going to be asking him about?” (12:19).

3. The Club: On Being ‘In’ or ‘Out’ as an Owner (09:31, 32:18, 33:57)

• David Samson & Mark Cuban: The psychological toll of being booted from the owners’ “club.”
  • Samson shares candidly: "You’re not in the room where it happens anymore...it’s emotionally devastating." (33:57)
  • Conversation pivots to Mark Cuban’s changed status after selling the Mavericks, and how being out of the “club” shifts one’s feeling of power and relevance.
• Voting Realities: Samson claims Mark Cuban couldn't get the votes to join MLB due to being unmanageable: "You won't get approved...because you are the way you are in the room" (35:12).

4. NBA Salary Cap Controversy – The Kawhi Leonard/Aspiration Story (21:41–29:07)

• Recap of the Scandal: The team discusses Pablo Torre’s exposé on the LA Clippers and $28 million paid to Kawhi Leonard via Aspiration, a company with Steve Ballmer as an investor.
• Cuban Defends Ballmer: Mark Cuban questions Torre’s reporting, implying it’s incomplete—Dan and Samson argue that Cuban didn’t do his homework and that Pablo’s reporting was “seven months of painstaking investigative journalism” (26:59).
• The Core Issue: As Samson summarizes, “This simple conversation around Steve Ballmer revolves around salary cap circumvention. Not a crime. A violation of the NBA rules, but not a crime” (24:48).
• Pablo Torre’s Work: Dan is defensive about the journalistic process: "There were lawyers, Dan, while it was being recorded to make sure everything was very clear" (29:26).

5. Comic Relief – The Tushy Pushy & Suey Moments (07:13, 17:07)

• Football Meets Hygiene: Dan wishes for “more ways to raise money that you can sponsor things like dude wipes. And we’re going to see a tushy pushy tonight.” The phrase “tushy pushy” becomes a running gag, voted on via the show’s online poll (07:13, 07:29).
• Al Pacino Impression: Samson is goaded into doing his “Al Pacino from Carlito’s Way” impression — “Stugarts, you think you’re big time…you’re gonna die big time?” (17:07)
• Size Jokes & Production Wizardry: The crew riffs on how small David Samson looked beside Pablo Torre, comparing him to “Boss Baby” (38:12–39:06).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Le Batard on age and sports media:
  “Your demographic is not interesting to the NFL, its sponsors, or its partners. You’ve aged out. And the people who need to be in the know, they’re in the know.” (04:21)

• David Samson on being out of the ownership club:
  “You feel like you’ve lost not just your identity, but your value...when I’m recognized for being the first voted out on Survivor, you think that’s what I want?” (33:57)

• On the NBA Salary Cap Case:
  “This simple conversation around Steve Ballmer revolves around salary cap circumvention. Not a crime. A violation of the NBA rules, but not a crime.”
  — David Samson (24:48)

• Dan defending Pablo Torre:
  “This is a serious, serious show that Pablo did. And Mark just saying, oh, you know, you…seems like you feel shot it out of the…side of your pants. I did not appreciate that.” (29:26)

• Mike Ryan’s Interview Dilemma:
  “You guys have put me out there making, like, this public decision journalistically where I look like a coward either way...This is a no win position for me.” (11:58–12:19)

• Samson’s Pacino Impression:
  “Stugarts, you think you’re big time…you’re gonna die big time?” (17:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:02] – Whether or not to accept Mickey Arison’s five minutes.
• [04:21] – Dan’s demographic “aged out” commentary.
• [07:13] – Tushy Pushy conversation and sponsorship jokes.
• [17:07] – David Samson’s Al Pacino impression.
• [21:41–29:07] – Deep dive into Pablo Torre’s NBA salary cap investigation.
• [33:57] – Samson on losing owner access and emotional cost.
• [35:12–36:30] – Baseball’s opposition to Cuban, and the power of the owners’ vote.

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Episode Structure in Brief

1. Sports media confusion & cost (streaming battles, Thursday night games)
2. Interview dynamics with NBA/Heat owner (the “five minute” dilemma)
3. Owners’ club & loss of status (personal reflections and insider stories)
4. NBA salary cap circumvention scandal (deep-dive, Pablo Torre investigation, Mark Cuban’s defense)
5. Comic relief & running bits (“tushy pushy,” Pacino impression, size jokes)

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For listeners: This episode is a characteristic blend of sharp sports business insight, locker-room humor, pop culture riffs, and self-deprecating banter, anchored by a prominent NBA scandal and the existential angst of losing a seat at the most exclusive tables in sports.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dazzlo]

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[Dan Le Batard]

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast? I'm sorry.

[David Sampson]

I'm not going to apologize for that.

[Mike Ryan]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries that if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys. I've done it. And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[David Sampson]

This episode of the Dan LeBatard show with Stugots is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm really torn here. Maybe Sampson can give us some help. He certainly travels in these corridors of power where you just can't get to people or ask them questions. Mickey Harrison's offering us five minutes today. Should I take it or not? Take it. Because these guys don't want to do interviews that have conditions on them.

[Dan Le Batard]

You 100% take it. Did he tell you that there's certain subjects off limits?

[Mike Ryan]

No.

[Dan Le Batard]

So you got five minutes of a man's time that he doesn't give five minutes to many people. He doesn't do much Media at all. So the question is, how do you make the most of the five minutes? And I think you got to go right in. You got to lead with some of the great signings that he's done. I think you start with, you know, probably Terry. I would do that.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, you guys, I need some help with this because he's gonna be available at some point here soon, and I've gotta make a decision on five minutes. But, David, as we intro you and they put your face on the screen and you were grinning maniacally at a intro to your show that is actively annoying. Zaslo was over here next to me, and it felt like disgust was on his face as well. How do you. How did you feel about the intro that. That David Sampson just.

[David Sampson]

Here's the thing, though. I'm so disgusted with it that, like, it's. It swings back around the pendulum, and I love it. It's.

[Mike Ryan]

It's.

[David Sampson]

It's the most disgusting that. That.

[Mike Ryan]

That.

[David Sampson]

I like it.

[Mike Ryan]

So his greed and his love of money and this person that he is that wears the flashy coat.

[David Sampson]

Look at that face.

[Mike Ryan]

No, but. And loves that Bob Ross gets ripped off by his family and loves that the customer's getting screwed. In these streaming service wars where no one knows how to find football.

[Dan Le Batard]

You do know where to find. Used to pay for cable. Now you just pay for different streaming services. But you get more than football. I don't want to sit here and defend, but I want you to realize that I understand your confusion where you don't know to find a game, but tonight's game, the kickoff of the NFL season, Cowboys, Eagles. It's free. It's NBC. So I think everyone just needs to slow their role just a little bit.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm saying your general glee that you know that this is going to get worse before it gets better, that the customer is going to get charged more and more and more to find its sports and more and more and more places. And no, don't take for granted everyone knows where to find football. There are plenty of people in America still confused on Thursday night that they got to go find Amazon in order to find the game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, again, I understand what you're talking about your demographic, but frankly, your demographic is not interesting to the NFL, its sponsors, or its partners. You've aged out. And the people who need to be in the know, they're in the know, and they know.

[Mike Ryan]

But it's costing too much, David. And you. You delight in that. It's costing the fan. You delight in rich people Screwing over the fans who didn't ask for any of this. They were already paying for football in a variety of places.

[Dan Le Batard]

Are you like, are you upset about dynamic pricing for FIFA's World cup that's coming to Miami? Are you that guy who doesn't recognize that, hey, there's people who pay different prices when you fly on a plane or when you stay in a hotel room. This is the way it's always been. There are people who can afford to get certain things, pay certain things, and some people who can't.

[Mike Ryan]

They can afford it. Life, David. They could afford it before. And the customer is getting screwed here. There's no dispute on that.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's just different customers are getting access to different things who may not have had it before. And if you had access, you may not have it anymore. That, again, is part of life.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay.

[Dazzlo]

I mean, I think the dispute, though, is like, Thursday night games used to be on NFL Network, which is also a subscription that you needed to have.

[Mike Ryan]

But now the NFL Network has bought part of ESPN because they're going to be doing it over there now, too.

[Dazzlo]

But that doesn't have anything to do with, like, the Thursday night games. You're just switching from NFL Network to Amazon. And like, if you were to go back 15, 20 years, you basically had three games. You could watch the 1 o' clock game on CBS and the 4 o' clock game on CBS and then the 1 o' clock or 4 o' clock game on Fox. Now you can watch any game you want. Essentially. You just have to pay for it where before you didn't have the option to pay for it.

[Mike]

Do you even think the Eagles can repeat? Have you even cared to ask yourself.

[Dazzlo]

Do you know who the Eagles are playing tonight?

[Mike Ryan]

I do know. It's a big game.

[Mike]

Do you know who RB1 is for the Cowboys?

[David Sampson]

You know about that Tush push.

[Mike Ryan]

The thing about tonight's game is that it's a glamour franchise that hasn't won in a really long time against the defending champions, who were overwhelmingly the most physical team by position, by position in the NFL.

[Mike]

This is good shit right here.

[Mike Ryan]

It's not good shit.

[Mike]

Keep it going.

[Mike Ryan]

I know you want sports here, but now I'm in the corridors of power fighting with the owners over money. And they're screwing the customers. They really are. Like, this season is starting.

[David Sampson]

I don't feel screwed.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm going to enjoy football. So you. So you don't think it's getting too.

[David Sampson]

Expensive for you tonight?

[Dazzlo]

Eagles, Packers.

[Mike Ryan]

It's free.

[Mike]

It's on NBC Cowboys. No, David, we were trying to trick.

[Dazzlo]

I like the point to ruin everything. Can I ask you a candid question? You have to ruin everything in life.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's my. It's my lot in life. Can we talk about dude wipes?

[Mike Ryan]

No. Please follow Billy here. Why'd you ruin that?

[Dan Le Batard]

Because Billy and I are having an off camera problem. Are we now?

[Mike Ryan]

Why'd you ruin that?

[Dan Le Batard]

Because I felt left out.

[Dazzlo]

No, he only wanted to talk about football. Cleaning your butt now? Go on.

[Dan Le Batard]

I just want to talk about more ways to raise money that you can sponsor things like dude wipes. And we're going to see a tushy pushy tonight. And I want to know if we're going to see a dude wipe like on the new Jason Kelsey.

[David Sampson]

You think that'll catch all.

[Dan Le Batard]

Dying to watch.

[David Sampson]

That'll catch on. Tushy pushy.

[Mike]

I got a lot of it.

[Dazzlo]

I don't like it.

[Tony]

A little too close.

[Mike Ryan]

Put it on the poll at Levittard show. Do you like tushy pushy?

[Tony]

It's a tough one for you.

[Dan Le Batard]

You be careful.

[Mike]

I've seen a stovetop in your past.

[Mike Ryan]

Toshi Stove.

[Tony]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's a.

[Tony]

It's a tough one, especially if you're going quick.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay. So David.

[Tony]

I never do.

[Mike Ryan]

David Sampson felt left out because if you have not noticed, David Sampson's nothing personal podcast, which is flourishing, is about a lot of things other than football. He'll do football, but once football season starts, that's not his area of expertise. I don't know that anyone wants to hear his opinions on football. He'll try, but he'll feel left out because it's your weakest sport. Right. And nobody can be good at everything. And you are doing stuff on that podcast that nobody's doing. So football would be your weakness, correct?

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, because you gave a second hour every day. So today we had Brady Quinn as our guest to talk. He's an expert analyst. And so he talked about college. He talked about tonight's game. So we do have guests on now twice a week and who will cover areas of expertise that I can't cover. But do I know who QB1 is of Dallas? No. But my nothing personal pick of the day. I'm taking the eight and a half points, baby, because for Jerry, tonight is his Super Bowl. He's got to win post Micah. And he's got to stop the run with Clark because he said stop the run. His whole fricking press conference was, hey, we traded Micah Parsons. We could stop the run. And of course he's going against Saquon Barkley, you know, can he get 2,000 yards again? Wait to see. So it's a big game for the Cowboys, so I took the points.

[Tony]

So you know Kenny Clark on the defensive line, but you don't know QB1?

[Dan Le Batard]

No. RB1 on the Cowboys is what Mike asked. I do know QB1, I do know that.

[Mike Ryan]

Sanders QB3 it is. Okay, but no, nobody wants your football analysis.

[Dan Le Batard]

Good.

[David Sampson]

Right.

[Mike Ryan]

Nothing Personal is a. Is a podcast that covers almost everything else. Well, and I'm not even saying you don't cover football. Well, it's just that I can tell when you're trying to fake it. Just trying to talk football so you can feel in the club. It's the same thing Mark Cuban's doing.

[Mike]

Right now, by the way.

[Mike Ryan]

He still wants to be in the rich person's club. He's still. That's what he's doing.

[Mike]

He just think they're kicking him out.

[Mike Ryan]

He's still in it. Dan. Or the basketball club. Excuse me, the bat. No, it's a. More check. Wait a minute. This is a big ass distinction making there. He still wants to be in the basketball club and he's not welcome. No, his team is run by the other side now. And they traded Luca and he still wants in. And no, not only your opinion matters, but you're coming after Pablo and. And you don't have any facts other than you want to protect your precious basketball Club and Pablo. 2014, Dirk Nowitzki. I don't know. Dennis Rodman staying.

[Mike]

Wow.

[Mike Ryan]

Mark Cuban's house.

[Mike]

You're snitching now?

[Mike Ryan]

No, just.

[Mike]

You're a snitch now?

[Mike Ryan]

No, just.

[Mike]

I don't like this.

[Mike Ryan]

No, I'm just saying look into it.

[Mike]

Same energy with Mickey.

[Mike Ryan]

Find out.

[Dan Le Batard]

You.

[Mike]

You better do that Anthony Carter shit. Ok. You go down this road, damn people are going to think you're a mouthpiece for the Miami Heat.

[Mike Ryan]

So what are we doing? Are we doing the interview then? Yeah, because you guys told me not to. No, wait a minute. Now you want me to do it?

[Mike]

I was worried that you.

[Mike Ryan]

So wait a minute.

[Mike]

With kid gloves.

[Mike Ryan]

So no, in five minutes you want me to ask him about Anthony Carter hall of Fame week?

[Mike]

I want it only about Anthony Carter now. And Terry Brazier, considering your whole more Cuban take. Okay, so we got to protect you from you.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, so how do we do this? Are we taking the interview then? Are you challenging me to do a good hard interview with Mickey Harrison in five minutes?

[Mike]

I Mean, as long as we can talk that shit.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay. Okay. So, Mickey, selling part of your team to the Saudis. Go.

[Dazzlo]

That's a good one.

[Mike Ryan]

Now we're talking five minutes, hall of Fame week. That's what you guys want.

[Mike]

Who's this Kushner guy that's in the club now?

[Dazzlo]

Exactly.

[Mike]

Cuban sign in the club. Kushner is talk to me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes.

[Dazzlo]

To Andrew Rossini about Trump. You got to ask Mickey.

[Mike]

There's no way this interview happens.

[Mike Ryan]

Five minutes. No, no, I'm trying to figure out how to do it. No, no, I want to do it, but that's one question. You've given me five minutes and one question.

[Dan Le Batard]

Disguise after the sweep. And, Dan, just stop with the intros. Go right to it. Like, don't spend four minutes saying, how you feeling? You know, how you feel being inducted. Forget it. Go right into it. You can do it. Go back to your journalism days.

[Mike Ryan]

Five minutes.

[Dan Le Batard]

Five minutes is plenty, guys.

[Mike Ryan]

Hall of Fame week.

[Dazzlo]

If you ask him these questions, I assure you're not going to get five.

[Mike]

Yeah. Kushner, Jimmy Rosier, Saudi.

[Tony]

Saudis.

[Mike Ryan]

Saudis. House of Saudi, LeBron, vaccines.

[Tony]

Now you're talking.

[Dazzlo]

Well, that. I mean, if you. If you find an in on that one, that's fine. That one's not exactly related or pressing.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, so enough with this.

[Dazzlo]

Yeah, that's directly.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, but this is very pressurized. Now I got to decide this in a half hour. You guys have put me out there making, like, this public decision journalistically, where I look like a coward. Either way, like, there's. This is a no win position for me right now because you want me to ask a guy who's given five minutes to three to three people are in it. Do you think that was. That's what Rachel Nichols is going to be asking him about.

[Tony]

Rachel Nichols is the other one.

[Mike Ryan]

That's the only other one I know. There are two people who are allowed five minutes with him. And what I've been offered. We've been offered is another five minutes. It's some great gift from the sky.

[David Sampson]

Okay, but hold on one second.

[Mike Ryan]

And it's on the phone. It's not even. Like we can't get a zoom.

[Dazzlo]

How do we know it's him?

[Mike Ryan]

We can't. We can't get video. There's no video.

[Tony]

A voice modulation thing of Mickey's voice.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't even know.

[Dazzlo]

RFK was here a couple of minutes ago.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, now. Now you're out now. Oh, look, now I can be. Look, I'm not a coward. I Didn't avoid asking him any of those questions. It's just a time thing. That's not fair.

[David Sampson]

I'm not out at number one. As long as he is not telling you what you cannot ask. I don't care about the time limits. All right, number two, you're not out.

[Dan Le Batard]

Look at you.

[Dazzlo]

I mean he bought your rings.

[Mike]

You're wearing a 2020 runner up shirt.

[David Sampson]

Well, no, this is rocking.

[Mike]

Second place.

[David Sampson]

You're right, it is 2020. Yeah, I thought it was 2023, but no, this is 2020.

[Dazzlo]

So many runners.

[David Sampson]

That bubble was. Man, that was some run.

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[Mike]

Hey listeners, it's Mike. Hey Billy Gill.

[Dazzlo]

Hey.

[Mike]

Hey Billy. As a proud member of your inner circle, remember when we were hanging out last weekend?

[Dazzlo]

Yeah. Fishtail Palms.

[Mike]

Fishtail Palms. The great memories we made. Kids playing in the pool and in our hands a nice ice cold can of Miller Light. It was so hot out.

[Dazzlo]

I know, but it was so cold in my hand.

[Mike]

We took that first sip. It was crisp. It was refreshing. Oh man, there is nothing like cracking open a Miller Light with your crew and your inner circle bones.

[Dazzlo]

Hell yeah, we fist bumped.

[Mike]

Whether it's. We actually really did. Whether it's that touchdown make a sound.

[Dazzlo]

But it just bam boom.

[Mike]

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[David Sampson]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[David Sampson]

Don Le can you rate my Al Pacino from that billiard scene in Carlito's Way if I do it for you? I think it's pretty good.

[Dazzlo]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay.

[David Sampson]

Stugarts, you think you're big time when.

[Mike Ryan]

You'Re gonna die big time?

[Dazzlo]

That is on my infamous scale of 1 to 10.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a. That's a 7.6 solid.

[Dan Le Batard]

Good job, Destiny.

[Mike Ryan]

Good job.

[Dan Le Batard]

Good job.

[Mike]

That's a suey nominee right there.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach. I think you need to ask Mickey about salary cap circumvention. Ask whether he's ever participated in that.

[Mike Ryan]

Guys, I got five minutes. It's five minutes.

[David Sampson]

What happens if you go over five minutes? You're going to hang up clock just.

[Dazzlo]

Take bad look for the hall of Famer.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, I hang up on you.

[Mike Ryan]

This is an impossible spot. So you want same energy for Mickey Harris's.

[Dazzlo]

What do you want to ask him about?

[Mike Ryan]

I look, man, I just asked Dazzlo. He's a two time champion broadcaster, look. And Sampson will appreciate this as well. Mickey Earson's the best owner we've ever had down here. He's going into the hall of Fame and he's so shy that he doesn't really want to like make a big deal out of all of it because all he's wanted to do is win the championships. This is a great honor, but it's not what this dude is about. Like he doesn't want him. You think he wants to be making a speech in front of people? You think he wants to be making a speech? I don't.

[Mike]

I think he wants to be making a Hall of Fame speech in front of.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't. Yeah.

[Mike]

Why is he there then?

[Dazzlo]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Well, I can say no, thanks.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay. I can ask that question.

[David Sampson]

I'm asking if he's seen Superman.

[Dazzlo]

Yeah, that's a good question.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, so I have five minutes with him and so we got to make use of the five minutes if I accept them because you guys want me to ask him about the salary cap and circumvention and the Saudi. That's not, it's not five minutes.

[Mike]

Ask him if he's okay because he's very clearly being dragged to this hall of Fame ceremony against his will. Being forced to talk to weekend for you. Everyone's honoring, you know, billionaires, they just get told they have to talk to people and they just do it.

[Dan Le Batard]

I bet he has. Way this ends is with Dan not getting one question in. In five minutes. Not one. Because he just talk about how difficult it is to deal with five minutes.

[Mike Ryan]

And then it'll pass. No, I accept your challenge and I will do the five minutes. I will absolutely do the five minutes. But what I'm telling you in the audience is it can't be any good that way. Like if a person doesn't want to be interviewed and is only going to be interviewed for five minutes and I'm throwing salary cap circumvention Saudis at him in those five minutes like he has no. He has no. Somebody who's hidden for 30 years in front of us.

[Dazzlo]

What's he hiding from and Kushner. I think that's the first question. Hey, you never do these interviews. What are you hiding from? And then you throw in the Saudis. Boom.

[Mike]

You played yourself, Dan. Everybody else in media is asking if the Eagles can repeat. Football is back, Jack, you could have said no. I'm not taking Mickey. Because today is a national holiday.

[Mike Ryan]

Mickey. Super bowl prediction. So here's what we've got going on around Pablo Torre. And I wanted to ask David Sampson about this because Chris Mannix has talked to a series of NBA exec. This story is going to continue to grow. I know football, I know football is going to continue to overwhelm all in its path. But one Eastern Conference executive says, quote, this is a huge deal. A Western Conference general manager says, bad for them, very bad. The NBA will be pissed about this. If it's true, the punishment will be worse than what happened in Minnesota with Joe Smith. NBA officials are furious about these allegations. According to a source with the league office telling si, if this is what it looks like, I think Adam has to make an example of them. I don't think this is going to be a small deal. But Mark Cuban, as is his want in protection of these people, that he cares about the owners and a sport he cares about. Because I imagine Mark Cuban right now is sort of frustrated. All the money in the world, I understand, but he loved that thing in a way he didn't love anything else. It was his identity. And he could be Shark Tank and everything else, but they trade Luka and he doesn't have any control over that. Like whatever his dreams were to own the toy that was the Dallas Mavericks, he exceeded them. But now he's old and basketball hasn't left him behind. But the Dallas Mavericks and his identity make it so that he's the first one out on behalf of the owners to question seven months of investigation by Pablo Torre and begins with if you'd taken the time. These rich people are burying media because they've got all the money in the world. And Pablo took seven months of time to establish what Mark Cuban says he couldn't establish that Ballmer didn't know. David Sampson, you're an expert in this field. How could Ballmer possibly not know that $28 million was going to circumvent the cap so that they could get Kawhi Lennon Allegedly.

[Dan Le Batard]

So a couple of things. When we were sitting in that room with Pablo Amin Alhassan and myself when we did the show, Pablo didn't tell us what the show was. Didn't tell us what was going on. There were documents and all of a sudden, live we are looking at these documents and it's all there. And Mark Cuban may or may not have watched the episode. Certainly judging by his tweet, he had not. He had only watched the four minute clip on Twitter along with the other 25 million people. But Steve Ballmer gave money, invested money in this company, Aspiration. It's right there. It is a publicly filed document right there. And then the company did a deal with Kawhi Leonard for $28 million. Can you imagine Kawhi Leonard getting 28 million to endorse anything? Anything but a company that already was giving money to Leonardo DiCaprio and Drake and Orlando Bloom and Cindy Crawford and Kaia Gerber, on and on and on. Robert Downey Jr. For crying out loud, did a commercial and all of them made a tiny percentage of Kawhi Leonard. Do you think that the heads of Aspiration said, hey, we've got an investor in our company who owns the Clippers. Should we ask him whether Kawhi Leonard would be a good pitch person to plant a frickin tree now? Let's not bother asking him. Give me a break. Of course Steve Ballmer knew. It's absurd to think that he would not have known. We had players who did deals with sponsors of our team for like a few shekels, like the corner grocery store in Hialeah or a, or a, or a car dealer local. Yeah, you get 25 grand in a car. Big whoop.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, but you don't have a salary cap. You don't have a salary cap though.

[Dan Le Batard]

But I'm saying that even we would know about the little stuff if one of our players were doing a $28 million deal with a company that we had an investment in.

[Mike Ryan]

David.

[Dan Le Batard]

It belies all credibility.

[Mike Ryan]

So David, help me with this part, which is within your expertise, which is why you're a part of the episode with Pablo Torre. These things have to be heavily lawyered. You have to be able to prove these things. The money will bury you. And it is dangerous to do what Pablo is doing because the money does not like when this is done to them. Steve Ballmer is the sixth richest man in the world, wants to win with a laughing stock franchise. And according to what seems to be proof, what looks like proof, allegedly he's got a deal that has a whole bunch of fraud in it. And while Kawhi Leonard did have a New Balance deal, you can tell me what he's actually gotten in endorsements $28 million. And to be so sloppy about it that he doesn't even send out a tweet of him planting a tree or have somebody go out and just hashtag aspiration. Just a social media account, 10 tweets, something that, that suggests you're earning that money. Take us through, David, as quickly as you can, with as much expertise as you can. What Mark Cuban did yesterday, because he, he doesn't have facts. If he thinks Pablo, Pablo Tory doesn't have this story pinned down, well, he.

[Dan Le Batard]

Got as confused as you got. So I just want to be clear that this story is not about Steve Ballmer committing or being accused of any fraud. The fraud was committed by the people who started Aspiration and one of the co founders was pled guilty to two counts of wire fraud and bilking investors out of money. That's not what we're talking about with Steve Ballmer. This simple conversation around Steve Ballmer revolves around salary cap circumvention. Not a crime. A violation of the NBA rules, but not a crime. So make sure you're very clear about that. Number two.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you. I appreciate the correction.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I love you anyway.

[Mike Ryan]

No, but, but David, I. Again, this stuff is dangerous. When you bring this stuff to power. The sixth richest man in the world knows how to extinguish this. Unless the other owners tell Adam Silver, hey, you can't do that. But if they're all doing it and if they send Mark Cuban out to protect that, they're all doing some form of that. Do you know how hard these things are to prove? Nobody's going to be able to prove anything ever on Steve Ballmer like.

[Dan Le Batard]

But, but it does an investigation, Dan. The NBA said we have to investigate this. We have to figure out what happened because this doesn't smell right. What doesn't smell right is a $28 million deal which we have a copy of. Pablo got a copy of the actual endorsement contract that I went through page by page on the show. And there are provisions in that contract that don't pass the smell test under any scenario. More and most with KAWHI Leonard getting 28 million from that company. But what the NBA has to figure out is does Steve Ballmer get made an example of or do they bury Kevin McHale the way they did when Glenn Taylor got suspended? But Kevin McHale got in the real trouble, you know, three and a half million dollar fine. Big whoop. Joe Smith, contract terminated. Big whoop. This is a Far bigger deal. There's way more money, it's stake. And Steve Ballmer is way more powerful in terms of Mark Cuban, he is an ancillary part of this story because he got involved on Twitter with Pablo where he was saying, Pablo, how could you not have investigated the scammers? Why are you not focusing on the fact that Ballmer got scammed? Well, Mark, that was the first 30 minutes of the episode. It was all about these and shouldn't.

[Mike Ryan]

Have been because you guys spent 50, 15 minutes not getting to the point. Like they spent 15 minutes before they told us what they were talking about because they were talking about that stuff.

[David Sampson]

But even if it wasn't like, who gives a shit? Why is it Pablo's responsibility to check into Steve Ballmer getting scammed? Like Pablo's coming at it from a sports perspective, which is the NBA side of it. Like, who cares about Bomber getting scammed?

[Dan Le Batard]

And that's where Mark Cuban got confused. And he talked about the fact that if you don't, you have to investigate the scammers. Scammers can get scammed. And just like scammers can scam. But that's not the point of the episode at all. And Pablo was very clear about the difference that you just conflated. And I understand why, because it's complicated. But the fraud is what aspiration did to investors. Ballmer was an investor, but Ballmer put money in that then went out the door. Why was money going out the door to Kawhi Leonard when other bills weren't being paid? Why was Kawhi Leonard getting 7 million a year to do nothing? Why is it a coincidence around the signing of Kawhi Leonard? There's got to be something here. NBA go investigate. And so they are going to investigate. What Mark Cuban said is, I'm totally irrelevant. I'm not a governor or alternate governor. I have nothing to do with the Mavericks. So therefore let me go and say that I'm team Ballmer. That's how he started. I got 20 minutes of nothing personal this morning because he said I'm team Ballmer. It's totally absurd. Second only to the Clippers statement where they said we had no oversight over the contract with Kawhi Leonard and aspiration, of course you didn't because you're not on the contract. But that's not the issue. Did you have influence over it, Steve? That's what Adam Silver is going to ask for.

[Tony]

Perspective. His deal with New Balance, Kawhi Leonard's was multi years, 5mil a year. So there's a chance that he was being paid more by aspiration than he was by New Balance.

[Mike Ryan]

Think about that for a second. When you lose, when you lose sight of this dollars. Think about what Tony just said for a second. New Balance, which forced Kawhi to do commercials he did not want to do, paid him $5 million a year. This no show job paid him $7 million a year. Think about that one for a second.

[Dan Le Batard]

What offended me about the Cuban tweet is that he said it's sad that Pavo Torre didn't take the time to find out how these scammers pulled off their scam. Well, a, it's in the episode and B, Pablo took took seven months of painstaking investigative journalism. And I don't want to downplay that this was not a story when there were lawyers, Dan, while it was being recorded to make sure that everything was very clear what I was looking at and what then I would say in response to what I was looking at. And so this is a serious, serious show that Pablo did. And Mark just saying, oh, you know, you seems like you feel shot it out of the, you know, side of your pants. I did not appreciate that.

[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Mike Ryan]

It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[David Sampson]

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[Dan Le Batard]

The elevated interior reminds you this is more than an ev. This is electric performance redefined. Mama Papa. This is the Don Levatar show with the stugats.

[David Sampson]

When he says at the end there that it's going to come back to backfire on Pablo, it's like a threat.

[Dan Le Batard]

What does that mean? It sounds like someone trying to stay relevant who knows that he has no more seat at the table. You know, the question is, did he caught. Did Steve Ballmer call Mark and say, man, and we got to do a statement. We got a real problem. Marky Mark, what do I do? I'll bet you a dollar that call.

[Mike Ryan]

Mark Cuban is pretty relevant. David. Mark Cuban is pretty relevant.

[Mike]

Mark Cuban seeing an awful announcing clip. David Sampson says, I'm trying to stay relevant. I mean, all he has to do is go at the sitting president like he often does. And he remains in the national conversation. He's not outside of this basketball club. The way that Dan is positioning it, he is still the person most associated with that franchise. And that'll be that way probably unless they get a player more famous than Luka.

[Mike Ryan]

But, Mike, look, it's. That's the optics of it though, man. You. You are not allowing for these people who have these giant amount of money to have blind spots about where their personality gets distorted. Mark Cuban having power over that club, made it at one time that he was running on the court and getting more fines than anyone. Cuz he kept going after officiating and thought he lost a title in Miami because the refs cheated for Dwayne Wade. And no, but I'm saying Mark Cuban cares about this like, he's never cared about anything. And now he no longer owns the team and was reminded when they traded Luca on him. So David can tell you with expertise what it's like to be in the club or outside the club. David's outside the club right now and it hurts. Yeah.

[Mike]

And David had an owner that chose to be outside the club. This is a decision that Mark Cuban made. And he's got enough wealth to say like, well, I can just buy another team. Now. I know that's been tricky in previous years for Mark Cuban. Sometimes baseball didn't want him in there. But Mark Cuban has enough money that he didn't have to sell and he can get another team.

[Mike Ryan]

Mike, do you understand, like, you just glossed over? I know it can be tricky. Baseball said no to Mark Cuban. How much no do you think Mark Cuban's been getting? Hey, you want my money, right?

[Mike]

And David Sampson and Jeffrey Lauria sold the team way overvalued.

[Mike Ryan]

They're different.

[Mike]

If Mark Cuban comes back to the.

[Mike Ryan]

Table, they're different clubs. Why do you think the rich guys all want to own the sports teams? They're different clubs.

[Mike]

David has said routinely that they want the franchise values going up.

[Mike Ryan]

Mark Cuban. I am positive Mark Cuban hurts in a way that he didn't expect When Luca gets traded, just hurts in a way that you would assume he couldn't be hurt. And I'm telling you, David, who's a robot. David, you could speak to the human parts of when you get kicked out of the club.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'll tell you right now, after 18 years, my adjustment to not being in the club, it was tough. And it's only. It's been eight years, but it still comes up where I think about relevancy and I Think about, I'm not in the room where it happens anymore. And believe me, Mark Cuban thinks that way. Adam Silver did not pick up the phone to call Mark to say, what are you tweeting for? Mark Cuban can't get fined by Adam Silver if he tried. And that is a true fact, Mike. Now, of course, he's still rich. You may say he's still important, but there's a different feeling when you're in that room. When you're in the room which I was in, where you say out loud, we will not vote for Mark Cuban to buy a baseball team, you feel important. Of course it's not real, but, man, it feels real. And then when it's gone, it's emotionally devastating. You feel like you've lost not just your identity, but your value to. To yourself, to your family, to your. To people around on the street. I mean, God damn, when I'm recognized for being the first voted out on Survivor, you think that's what I want? I wanted to be the president of a team or the owner of a team that's identity, and Mark Cuban doesn't have it. He prayed. He's like, I'm still the head of basketball operations. No, you're not. You're nothing. You sold the team. It's done.

[Dazzlo]

Ouch. Did you guys voted against Mark Cuban?

[Dan Le Batard]

Did you just even come to a vote? He couldn't get 23 votes, Mike. You say that he couldn't get a baseball team. I'll tell you exactly what happened. He wanted to buy a baseball team and was told, you will not get approved. It is not going to happen. You do not have the votes because you are the way you are in the room, and you cannot be controlled, and we don't want any part of that.

[Dazzlo]

How would you have voted? You guys voted no.

[Dan Le Batard]

There was no vote.

[Dazzlo]

Would you have voted no?

[Dan Le Batard]

I would have voted with the commissioner. Yes. I would have voted no.

[Mike]

So if Mark Cuban offers Major League Baseball in the Miami Marlins $3 billion for that franchise today, he's not going to be allowed.

[Dan Le Batard]

He would not get the 23 votes.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right. And by the way, anyone offered Bruce Sherman $3 billion, that team would be sold faster than Mickey Arison's interview.

[Mike Ryan]

But that's what he just said.

[Mike]

What I just said thank you for.

[Dan Le Batard]

But not to Mark Cuban.

[Mike]

Okay, I don't agree with.

[Mike Ryan]

Wait a minute. You're. You're saying. You. You can't be serious.

[Mike]

It was a different time when Mark Cuban tried to buy the. Was it the Chicago Cup Pirates. It's a different time back then. Now it's all about getting these values up because the jig is up. They're on to the Miami Marlins. We know that these things are overvalued. So if someone comes around with $3 billion for that franchise and it just so happens to be Mark Cuban, I think it's a different day and age. And you're not in the room where it happens to tell me opposite these days.

[Dan Le Batard]

So it's your last point is your best one, in that the room is different now, and there's a chance that there's 23 votes that he can get these days, and there's a chance that Rob Manford would be less vocal than. Than Bud Selig was. So all of those things are true. But again, why would I operate in fantasy when I was in the reality? Fantasy is offering 3 billion for the Marlins. Reality is the fact that Cuban couldn't get the votes and then sent the tweet that he sent yesterday about ptfo.

[Dazzlo]

David, can you put to rest a rumor that's been going around this office regarding that Pablo episode that you were in? There's people saying that those papers that were on Pablo's desk were fake, that there was just copy paper that was taken directly out of the packaging and stacked in front of Pablo. There's nothing on anything on any of those papers except the top ones that have stuff printed on them, but the rest is just reams of paper that were unboxed and placed in front of him.

[Dan Le Batard]

So I had. I had my issues with that, but I had my own pile in front of me, and I was only allowed to look at my pile. And Pablo said that that's 3,687 pieces of paper. And I said, we're going to be here more than two and a half hours. I'm not doing that. So I didn't look in those piles because I was too busy with my pile. And my pile was as real as the day is long.

[Mike Ryan]

David, we're going to let you go right now. But from that episode, one of the things that I saw, and I want to get video on this, the. The size difference between you and Pablo was bigger, outrageous than the size difference between Billy and Derrick Henry. It is the greatest of the. Pablo Torre is not large in any way. He is a. He is a. I wouldn't call him diminutive, but he's 5 10, 5 9. He looks.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's not 5 10.

[Mike Ryan]

What is he? How tall is he?

[Dan Le Batard]

He's. I would Say he's no more than four inches taller than I am. I'm gonna go with five. Nine.

[Dazzlo]

Yeah, he's 60.

[Dan Le Batard]

69 inches. Nice.

[Mike Ryan]

So, so, so this.

[Dan Le Batard]

I was forced into that chair number one. Forced into the chair number two. I wanted to adjust the chair before taping and was told no, no, the camera angles require the chair to be where it is. And I said, this is outrageous. But then I forgot about it once I got my pause on what the hell the show is about. Then the show comes out and I got plenty of calls, maybe including for my representative wondering why it is that I look like Michoud.

[Mike Ryan]

At least no one saw it. David, your most viewed episode ever in the history of anything you've been involved in in media. And you look like somebody who is 2ft tall. That you are 43 pounds. They are talking with an expert toddler. Who's that amazing toddler who can read 3,000 pages of legal briefs?

[Tony]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

You can't hear them.

[Tony]

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[Mike]

Hey listeners, it's Mike. Hey, Billy Gill.

[Dazzlo]

Hey.

[Mike]

Hey, Billy. As a proud member of your inner circle, remember when we were hanging out last weekend?

[Dazzlo]

Oh, yeah. Fishtail palms.

[Mike]

Fishtail Palms. Great memories we made. Kids playing in the pool and in our hands a nice ice cold pan of Miller. It was so hot out.

[Dazzlo]

I know, but it was so cold in my hand.

[Mike]

We took that first sip. It was crisp. It was refreshing. Oh, man. There is nothing like cracking open a Miller Light with your crew and your inner circle bones.

[Dazzlo]

Hell yeah, we fist bumped.

[Mike]

Whether it's we we actually really did. Whether it's that touchdown make a sound.

[Dazzlo]

But it just bam, boom.

[Mike]

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[Dazzlo]

What?

[Mike]

It's just 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite Great Taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.