The Big Suey: This Is War

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: The Big Suey: This Is War

Date: November 26, 2025

---

Main Theme

From the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and the crew unpack the intersection of sports, pop culture, and current controversies. This Big Suey episode especially drills down into the chaos of the NFL season (with a special focus on the Cleveland Browns saga), the immense cultural influence of the Sanders family, the media landscape shift with Elle Duncan's departure from ESPN, the tempest around FSU football, and an on-air reckoning with Stephen A. Smith’s influence and conduct in sports media.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Ultimate “Mail It In” Work Day

Timestamps: 02:55–03:34

• The crew jokingly concurs that pre-Thanksgiving Wednesday is the day with the “least effort” in the American workplace.
• “It's so not trying that it deserves to be publicly punished.” — Dan (03:29)

2. Brandon Cooks’ NFL Odyssey

Timestamps: 04:11–04:56

• Discussion on how some NFL players (like Brandon Cooks) hang around various teams due to “elite speed,” leading to underrated but surprising careers.
• “He’s had a remarkable career … was a first-round pick, lived up to expectations everywhere he goes. He produces when he’s healthy, and yet he’s played for like a dozen teams.” — Mike Ryan (04:41)
• Debate over whether Cooks’ career is “remarkable” or just peripatetic.

3. The Haunted Saints: Scandals Old and New

Timestamps: 05:09–05:33

• The Saints’ history with off-field scandal (alleged cover-up with the Catholic Church) comes up when the topic shifts to NFL franchises giving controversial figures (like Justin Tucker) a tryout.
• “This … is a bad, underreported scandal on what happened with the Saints, the church … cover in ways that is super distasteful for the kinds of crimes that Justin Tucker is involved in.” — Dan (05:33)

4. The Cleveland Browns: A Franchise Cursed

Timestamps: 05:34–16:14

• Emphasis on Browns' unprecedented QB instability: “17 first-time starters at quarterback hadn't won a game for that defense to be championship good.” — Dan (07:46)
• The only thing making the Browns interesting: the arrival of Shador Sanders as starting QB.
• Debate on Deshaun Watson’s decline: Did Cleveland ruin Watson or did he self-destruct?
  • “I believe his life, whatever it's been away from the huddle for the last five years, has enough public shame in it that I believe it wrecked this man as a quarterback, that's fair to say.” — Dan (13:35)
  • “He also made a decision. He's like, I'm not going to run … He was the problem.” — Mike Ryan (14:14–14:40)
• The weight of public scandal and failed expectations: empathy vs accountability.
  • “Man. Can you imagine having that just everywhere you go publicly, everyone's looking at you and they're like, you're a deviant. You used to be this thing. You're a rock star.” — Dan (15:42)
  • “Are you trying to get me to feel bad for him?” — Mike Ryan (16:08)

5. The Most Powerful Black Man in Sports? The Shador Sanders Debate

Timestamps: 16:42–21:36

• Discussion on Elle Duncan’s move to Netflix away from ESPN — and segue to a viral Kendrick Perkins hot take.
• Kendrick Perkins (audio clip) ranks Shador Sanders as “the most powerful Black man since 2009” (Barack Obama). (18:34)
  • “When Shadua Sanders is on the field... He's the most powerful black man in sports. No other. Matter of fact, black man, he the most powerful player in sports.” — Kendrick Perkins (18:34–19:45)
• Mixed reactions — both humorous and skeptical — about Perk’s “power” ranking.
• “There's multiple other people in that room with Kendrick Perkins. And it's just nothing but agreeing…” — Zaslav (20:34)
• The show notes the symbolic resonance of the Sanders family and the rallying of the Black community around their narrative.

6. Shador Sanders: Symbol or Sensation?

Timestamps: 23:39–25:16

• Dan extends the conversation to Shador as an avatar for racial progress, comparing his spotlight to Tim Tebow’s media magnetism:
  • “He just like you like to say FSU is the equivalent of what's happening with religious evangelicals, Christian evangelicals. You realize that Shador Sanders is modern day Tebow.” — Dan (24:59)
• The crew expresses cautiousness about weighing in deeply, deferring to a future segment with Jemele Hill.

7. FSU Fans and Cultural Trauma

Timestamps: 25:26–29:55

• Assessment of Florida State University (FSU) football fans post-College Football Playoff (CFP) snub.
• Mike Ryan likens FSU’s online behaviors and lingering resentment to political polarization:
  • “Privately, I liken it to like, when evangelical Christians saw a black president and then the country just kind of went in the direction that it did. That was something that forever changed FSU fans.” — Mike Ryan (25:26)
• The discussion highlights the delusion of fan bases in decline, self-importance, and the struggle to maintain relevance.

8. The Stephen A. Smith “Tool” Debate

Timestamps: 30:29–32:37

• Dan references a behind-the-scenes dispute with Stephen A. Smith, reflecting on the broader problem of public fights among minority voices spurred by media narratives.
  • “And I want to talk to Stephen A. a little more before I discuss some of the things publicly. ... It becomes us fighting with each other in public. The minorities fighting with each other in public.” — Dan (31:19)
• Emphasizes the impact of infighting and media manipulation; Dan is mindful of moving cautiously when these disputes risk “trampling” the wrong people or damaging genuine relationships.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Shador Sanders’ cultural impact:
  “He's the most powerful black man in sports. No other. Matter of fact, black man, he the most powerful player in sports.” — Kendrick Perkins (18:34)
• Cleveland Browns as trainwreck:
  “It's like a train wreck they can't take your eyes off.” — Mike Ryan (08:52)
• On public shame and fallen athletes:
  “Can you imagine having that just everywhere you go publicly, everyone's looking at you and they're like, you're a deviant. You used to be this thing. You're a rock star.” — Dan (15:42)
• FSU’s warped self-image:
  “No one cares about Florida State University. You have to make people care. You made them care two years ago. The whole world has left you in the dust.” — Mike Ryan (28:41)
• Media infighting and identity:
  “I don't actually wanna ruin a relationship or a friendship over something that gets said here that I haven't said to him [Stephen A. Smith]... when these fights become instead of Trump's on McAfee, it's oh look, Beadle and Kerry Champion and Stephen A. are fighting over here. … The minorities fighting with each other in public.” — Dan (31:19)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Mailing It In at Work: 02:55–03:34
• Brandon Cooks/Player Journeys: 04:11–04:56
• Saints’ Scandals: 05:09–05:33
• Browns QB Dysfunction & Deshaun Watson: 05:34–16:14
• Kendrick Perkins on Shador Sanders: 18:34–19:45
• Symbolism and Black Excellence (“modern-day Tebow”): 24:59
• FSU’s Traumatic Fan Base: 25:26–29:55
• Stephen A. Smith Dispute / Media Dynamics: 30:29–32:37

---

Overall Tone & Feel

The episode alternates between high-pitched sports banter, incisive cultural commentary, and signature irreverence. Serious social dynamics (race, reputation, media infighting) are addressed with the show’s trademark blend of humor and candor, with an undercurrent of caution on topics (like Shador Sanders and Stephen A. Smith) that have cultural or personal sensitivities.

---

For the Listener

This episode is essential listening for anyone interested in how sports media intersects with broader racial and cultural narratives, as well as for fans of uniquely chaotic NFL franchises, media industry drama, and college football pageantry. The crew’s frankness, skepticism, and willingness to question prevailing narratives make it both entertaining and thought-provoking.

Transcript

[Chris]

Hey, Chris here. Black Friday game day is coming to prime and it'll be an epic day of live sports. Black Friday football is at the center of it with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3pm Eastern. That's followed by the final night of the Emirates Cup NBA group play and a doubleheader starting with the Bucks and Knicks at 7pm and the Mavericks and Lakers at 10pm What a nightcap game that is. But the whole day starts with the return of the Capital One skins game as four elite PGA golfers face off with $4 million on the line. Black Friday game day tees off with Capital One skins game at 9am Eastern before the Big Bears Eagles game at 3pm and it culminates with a double dose of Emirates NBA cup action featuring Bucs Knicks at 7pm and Mavs Lakers at 10pm Only on Prime.

[Mike Ryan]

Now's a good time to remember where Tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila. Cuervo, what are you doing here?

[Dan Le Batard]

Cuervo? Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, I do know that to be true, but even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think you could lay out.

[Dan Le Batard]

Especially for one of our great partners, Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Mike Ryan]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.

[Dan Le Batard]

Cuervo.

[Mike Ryan]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all. Cuervo Cuervo, the tequila that invented tequila. Roximo Cuervo.com, please drink responsibly.

[Dan Le Batard]

Cuervo.

[Mike Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move. Being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[Dan Le Batard]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast. I'm sorry, I'm not gonna apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Roy]

I've done it.

[Dan Le Batard]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Mike Ryan]

There's a Jack White concert tomorrow at halftime of a football game on Thanksgiving. I'd buy tickets to the Jack White concert and be pleasantly surprised to see Packers Lions break out around it. But I'd want tickets to that. I'd also want tickets. They're talking about Chiefs Cowboys potentially being the highest rated regular season game of all time in the middle of that Post Malone concert. Those are hard to get tickets, folks. Why don't you take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with game time? Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. Swipe, tap, ticket, go.

[Dan Le Batard]

Did we then agree that by consensus that today is the most mailing it in day of the year in the American work labor economy?

[Mike Ryan]

I'm working two jobs today, pal. Yeah, Mike's getting Miami into the college football playoffs. Just ask him. Three jobs.

[Zaslav]

I got a full day today.

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought you were going to introduce. I'm not talking about whether you have a full day or not. I'm talking about the effort level of a mean yesterday given that was bad. What this week is where his weekend observations. He goes. He gives us three observations. He didn't have anything. He doesn't deserve to be paid for that.

[Mike Ryan]

That was bad. It was real bad.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's just not. It's so not trying that it deserves to be publicly punished because like I.

[Chris]

Said, Jess will be here next hour and she has brought it f. One minute and an Internet.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right.

[Zaslav]

I can't do it. The spider behind me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, we've got a lot of that going on. This is not a fake. Fear of Zaslow. Don't do this to him on the Internet. Do not do this to him on his social media accounts.

[Zaslav]

People have been very kind so far. Like, someone sent me Donov Mitchell picture and that's. That's, that's, you know, that's any sweater whip. That's cheeky.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes. And then. Yes. You also had John Salley made an appearance. I have a couple of different things, though, that I wish to get to. I believe it's pretty rare in sports, but I believe that there are certain things where we all have the same reaction. I believe all of us had the same reaction to Brandon Cook to the Bills, which is like, oh, cooks, cooks. Excuse me. Brandon cooks to the cook Thanksgiving.

[Chris]

We'll allow it.

[Mike Ryan]

Brandon cooked.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, so we didn't have the same reaction. So. Okay, so we don't have the same reaction.

[Zaslav]

I feel like he's good. He's on a different team. Every year.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, but I believe he's just fast. Used to be fast when you get older. Not fast. No.

[Mike Ryan]

He's so fast. Those fast guys, those straight line speed guys, they find a way to hang on in the league for a very long time. And he's had a remarkable career.

[Chris]

I feel like that's putting it a little.

[Mike Ryan]

No, no, he. He's had a remarkable career. He is. He was a first round draft pick. He lived up to expectations everywhere he goes. He. He produces when he's healthy. He's won championships, I believe. And yet he has played for like a dozen teams.

[Zaslav]

He's on a different team every year.

[Mike Ryan]

It's wild.

[Dan Le Batard]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard. Show Brandon Cook's remarkable career. Yes or no? That wasn't even one of my football topics today because Justin Tucker getting a tryout from the Saints was interesting.

[Zaslav]

Why would they do that?

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, just to put a finger in the air and test the air on. Is Justin Tucker welcomed back by society or not? We're not gonna lead here.

[Zaslav]

But why would the Saints like.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why would the Saints care?

[Mike Ryan]

Because she's clearly a saint. The franchise that allegedly helped cover up with the Catholic Church and they gave them PR tips on the side, like that's going.

[Dan Le Batard]

It sounded like this particular subject matter was weighty enough that perhaps you should get all of your facts correct on. And it's a bad scandal and it's a bad, underreported scandal on what happened with the Saints. The church and how the Saints provided for the church allegedly cover in ways that is super distasteful for the kinds of crimes that Justin Tucker is involved in. But I wanted to get to Dylan Gabriel being cleared and not starting. So the Browns won a game and that's leadership. Just. We won one time. We're going to keep. We're going to stay with this. This is the quarterback killing franchise that has DeSean Watson as a veteran on the sidelines counseling new winner Shador Sanders. The first time a Brown starter has started at quarterback in the 17 tries with his first game and actually won the game.

[Zaslav]

I don't agree with that. I, I think this, this should have. And maybe it was the plan at the start of the season. Like wouldn't it have made sense, give Dylan Gabriel a bunch of games. They're not going to do any winning and then give shit or Sanders a bunch of games.

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought that before the season what was made clear to all of us is that Dylan Gabriel would do about what he would do because Shador Sanders Wasn't any kind of ready. And then the moment that Dylan Gabriel is cleared, I would have assumed that most people were expecting him to have played well enough to get that job back. I think most people were expecting Shador Sanders to lose. We were told that that was going to look incompetent on Sunday. And what looked incompetent is just the general status of Tom Brady's Raiders.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't think there has been a season in NFL history that has gone more according to predictable plan than what's happened with the Cleveland Browns. Flacco in there for a couple games and a little spark but then, you know, pushed out, Gabriel comes in, whatever and then Shador comes in late in the season. All while Miles Garrett potentially earns a sack record.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, well, that defense is obviously good without question. And if you think that Max Crosby and the Raiders are good at defense. No, that defense in Cleveland is actually the one that is good. And so by merely being something close to mediocre as a quarterback, which is.

[Zaslav]

What Dylan Gabriel's been.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, yeah, but it's. Yes, their skill position guys are no good. They're not an interesting team. This is the only interesting thing about them. The fact that the Browns are being talked about. I just can't believe the last 10 years of the Browns. I know the last 30 years of the Browns have been ridiculous laughing stock stuff but the last 10 years like Johnny Manziel is in that list of quarterbacks that I just gave you 17 first time starters at quarterback hadn't won a game for that defense to be championship good. Championship good. The Lions would kill to have what the Browns have on defense for that defense to be championship good and the franchise to be so broken in so many ways that this is where we are with the story of the Cleveland Browns from Baker Mayfield and Odell Beckham and a season of expectations. We get to Shador starts because he's famous and people will talk about him like that. That the last part of this season. The only thing that's interesting about the Browns. The only thing. The only thing is is Shador Sanders going to win games 20 to 17.

[Mike Ryan]

It's like a train wreck they can't take your eyes off. Everyone knew this was going to happen from the. You knew the desean Watson thing wasn't going to work work out in part because of who he was at the time, what he was, what we had seen recently, but also because of that franchise.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think we can say that.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't think you just knew Cleveland going all in on a move like that, guaranteeing the entire contract. You just knew it wasn't going to work out, Mike. I did because I was a Cleveland Browns fan for most of my life.

[Dan Le Batard]

I understand that. You've been scarred your whole life, man. Please don't forget what DeSean Watson was as a quarterback before they got him. He got that.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah. But don't forget what he was like prior to the Cleveland Browns getting him. He was bad for a while, Dan, before he got traded.

[Zaslav]

No, he had the one year where he wasn't that great at the end with Houston. Then obviously, what it was like two years in between, waiting.

[Dan Le Batard]

You guys are doing revisionist history. He got that guaranteed money at a time that no one thought that quarterbacks could be good. And he was one of the six or seven best of them that that was by. The reason he got that money is because more than one team was willing to give it to him.

[Mike Ryan]

Let's agree to disagree. I think that there was plenty of skepticism around, like, what is desean Watson going to look like? Because the last time we saw him out there, he wasn't that great and he's been away from football for a year.

[Dan Le Batard]

You say this, but this was the team that was up 21 nothing on the Chiefs with Sean Watson at quarterback. Back when we thought before CJ Stroud.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, he was good.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was going to be the offense. That was going to be the offense. That looks. I believe this is fair to say. I believe that this has as much to do with the Browns as anything that is responsible for deshaun Watson's failure.

[Roy]

All right, look, it's the holidays again, and people are running around and getting stressed out, and they're asking me, Roy, what should I get? What should I do? Give me some recipes. And every year I tell them the same exact thing. Get meat. It's not that hard. It's not that complicated.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's meat.

[Roy]

In Omaha Steaks, they deliver the world's best steak experience. USDA certified tender steaks. It tastes like someone actually cares about you. Burgers, steaks, comfort meals, all that stuff makes you go, mm, that'll work. And now, during the cyber sale, you can get 50% off site wide and an extra 20% off select favorites@omaha steaks.com plus, our listeners get an extra $35 off of promo. Dan at checkout. I've had Omaha Steaks many times. I've given them out, too. People lose their minds. You hand them that box and suddenly they think you're the greatest human alive five generations, same family, 100% guaranteed. Save big on unforgettable gifts with Omaha Steaks. Visit Omaha Steaks.com for 50% off site wide and an extra 20% off select favorites during the cyber sale. And for an extra $35 off, use promo code DAN at checkout. That's Omaha Steaks.com promo code DAN at checkout. Tons apply see site for details.

[Mike Ryan]

It's the holidays and the 50th anniversary of Miller Lite. The holidays are all about gathering around with family and friends. So why don't you bring out a cornucopia of that beautiful white canned Miller Lite or draft, whatever it is. You know it's going to be a special time when you bring out Miller Lite because Miller Lite makes special time. Miller Time Whether it's a late night hang after the holiday party or standing around a fire pit with a fan, Miller like just fits. It's a taste you know you can depend on. Brewed for flavor with simple ingredients like malted barley, rich balanced toffee notes and that iconic golden color. And at 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it lets you enjoy the season without weighing you down. The original light beer since 1975 and still hidden different 50 years later. The best holiday beers are the ones you don't expect. Miller Lite Great Taste 96 calories Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, folks.

[Chris]

Fuel your game day with the unbeatable crunch of Hampton Farms, the official peanut of bowl season. Perfect for sharing with friends, tailgating outside the stadium, or cheering from the couch. Grab a bag from the produce aisle of your local grocery store and savor the game one peanut at a time. Let's get nutty.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard football football, football.

[Mike Ryan]

Football, football. Stug.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the st. That contract is one of the epic disasters in the history of giving money in sports, especially in a salary cap sport. That quarterback was good to great, good to great. And everything that he did to himself there, I believe has ruined him every bit as much as going to Cleveland place that will ruin all quarterbacks. I believe that his life, whatever it's been away from the huddle for the last five years, has enough public shame in it that I believe it Wrecked this man as a quarterback, that's fair to say.

[Mike Ryan]

He also made a decision. He's like, I'm not going to run. And then what ended up happening was he started getting sacked at a crazy clip behind a solid offensive line because he was holding on to the ball too long, because he decided Cleveland's going to be a great place for me to reshape my career. And they moved him out of there. And Joe Flacco got him into the playoffs. Statuesque Joe Flacco, who everybody wrote off, got them into the playoffs. He was the problem. I watched a lot of Browns tape.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, he held the ball because we.

[Mike Ryan]

Talked about it all the time.

[Dan Le Batard]

He held the ball, I believe sucked. I believe Deshaun Watson's decision making was short circuited at life. I believe that whatever that is to bring upon yourself. Look, Mike, the thing that we knew about Deshaun Watson before that is just that he grew up in one of Warwick. Warwick Dunn's homes. That he's one of the great success stories in sports. Coming through Clemson, becoming a champion, being a model pillar, ready to be a quarterback who would be a face and voice for a team. And that's the scandal that I believe. Everything around desean Watson, short circuit.

[Zaslav]

I remember Dabo said that drafting desean Watson is the equivalent of drafting Michael Jordan.

[Mike Ryan]

If you pass on this guy, you're passing on Michael Jordan. And for like a season and a half, Dabo was right. His last year in Houston in 20, 24,800 yards, 33 touchdowns, seven picks, quarterback rating of 112. Like, he had a really good season. They were just 4 and 12. But then after that, you look at what he did in last year's at Cleveland. Seven touchdowns, five picks, four picks. Five touchdowns, three picks.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't believe there's been a story like it in the history of that sport. Not one like that, where it's like, oh, that was gonna be great at quarterback and ooh. And every choice he made after that swallowed him in a way. Man. Can you imagine having that just everywhere you go publicly, everyone's looking at you and they're like, you're a deviant. You used to be this thing. You're a rock star.

[Mike Ryan]

Are you trying to get me to feel bad for him?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, no. I'm just telling you that that's what's happened at a position. I've never seen it happen before.

[Mike Ryan]

It happens all the time. It's happening to the same franchise in. We should ask Justin Tucker.

[Zaslav]

Yeah, it's happening.

[Mike Ryan]

It's happening to CJ Stroud. Do you not remember Kyler Murray's first season? It happens in the league now.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay?

[Mike Ryan]

It does. You say it happened to Baker Mayfield. It happened to Sam Darnold. They were lucky enough to dig themselves out of it. Not this way, though, is what Dan said.

[Dan Le Batard]

5,000 yards, 33 and 7 is you're going to be a star. For 10 years, Tua led the league in passing.

[Mike Ryan]

He was elite. But it's happening a hell of a lot more in the league these days.

[Dan Le Batard]

Fine. Moving on to a couple of other subjects I wanted to get to. Do you believe that, El Duncan? I want everyone to make this assessment for themselves. Elle Duncan. We are thrilled for her, really happy she's going to Netflix. She's a star. She's obviously a star. She's been a star for a long time. Big enough to leave ESPN and go to Netflix to be the face of their coverage. Do you think she's leaving ESPN because what Kendrick Perkins had to say. And of all the shocking things that Kendrick Perkins has had to say, you guys tell me where exactly this ranks on the list of things when you think about. Look at you smiling before even get started.

[Zaslav]

I just, I. I love this clip so much. I mean, this, this was a few weeks ago, right? This is a few weeks ago. And l had, you know, they're doing their, their coverage. They're. They're talking NBA on SportsCenter, right? And. Ls obviously hosting and she's got Kendrick Perkins on, and they're doing the split screen and he's like sitting there giving real analysis for like 4, 5, 6 minutes or what have you. And then finally we get to a place where, you know, like, it's, it's time to say goodbye, right? It's time to say goodbye to Perk. And, you know, Park's got a. He's got a light. Lighten the mood a little bit.

[Mike Ryan]

What did he say?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I don't think you want to know what he. What he had to say because on Perk's. Perk's list of things as a public order, Chris Cody's looking for the sound, but he's been too busy just being lazy with Thanksgiving sounds. So he told me before the segment started, I'll have this Perk sound for you. Now. He's looking for it because he's been eating too much turkey. And how many curses has he thrown out there back there with you guys as we've been filibustering. You told me to go to Perk. Did you Not Perk on Shador. Yeah, what.

[Mike Ryan]

What he said, Dan, really quick, if I may add. He said, why do you need an ibuprofen? You can have a perk. Which was a bar.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, it was a bar.

[Mike Ryan]

It was a bar.

[Dan Le Batard]

But what did Perk have to say about Shador Sanders?

[Kendrick Perkins]

Shador Sanders is the most powerful Black man since 2009. You know what happened in 2009, right? That's when President Obama got elected in office. You said you were sitting there watching the game in your house. And what you did, you ran. You ran with the TV.

[Roy]

Goddamn right, right.

[Kendrick Perkins]

What was you doing, D.B.

[Dan Le Batard]

I was cheering. I was happy.

[Kendrick Perkins]

You was cheering like a. When Shadua Sanders is on the field. And when I say powerful. Powerful. Because there's two sides of it, right? Think about it, okay? You got the black community. He bringing the whole black community together. I. I ain't ran across one black person that. That didn't say one bad thing about Shindo. We want him and guess what? Not one. Because he has the balance. He has the balance of that. I'm arrogant, but I'm humble, too.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, Fun with this.

[Kendrick Perkins]

He having fun with this. And on top of that, y' all want me to say it ain't. Y' all want me to feel it ain't gonna happen.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, he talking.

[Kendrick Perkins]

He's the most powerful black man in sports. No other. No other. Matter of fact, black man, he the most powerful player in sports.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, we're gonna talk to Jemele Hill about everything happening around Shadore Sanders. Cuz it is interesting to watch. It really is interesting to watch. And the rallying around Shadore Sanders because he represents. Well, you tried to break his father when his father came through. We really like Deion Sanders, who's, you know, you saw what happened around Colorado last year and what the party was around Colorado and now college football will spit out Deion Sanders because he will not be able to do the things that he did in elevating his son and Travis Hunter to the top of that sport. And so now there's an emotional rallying around this people, around these people. The Sanders family of. You will not break arrogance. You will not. You will not crush our star. What are you laughing about, Zaslav?

[Zaslav]

Just laugh. Like, here's my problem with these podcasts with the players. Like Kendrick Perkins on. I don't think it was his podcast.

[Mike Ryan]

He's laughing because it was the most ridiculous thing he'd ever. My problem is what?

[Zaslav]

There's multiple other people in that room with Kendrick Perkins. And it's just nothing but agreeing with the statement that he's the most popular, the most powerful black man.

[Mike Ryan]

That's Former Athlete podcast.

[Zaslav]

I know. That's what I'm saying. There's not one person like. Let me, let me think on that first.

[Mike Ryan]

You want to walk this one back a little bit? I'm glad we're talking to Jamel because I don't know that we have the room to answer this question. No, I'm curious to see if she acknowledges if this is a thing or not.

[Dan Le Batard]

The symbol for black excellence is something the Deion Sanders family has been carrying around through sports and hardship for a long time.

[Mike Ryan]

It feels like Deion is more powerful than his son is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right? Well, he got two look, he got man.

[Mike Ryan]

So you disagree that Shador Sanders is the most powerful person in sports? I think he's not even the most powerful person in his own family.

[Chris]

Hey, Chris here. Black Friday game day is coming to prime and it'll be an epic day of live sports. Black Friday football is at the center of it with the Chicago Bears taking on the Philadelphia Eagles at 3pm Eastern. That's followed by the final night of the Emirates Cup NBA group play and a doubleheader starting with the Bucks and Knicks at 7pm and the Mavericks and Lakers at 10pm what a nightcap game that is. But the whole day starts with the return of the Capital One skins game as four elite PGA golfers face off with $4 million on the line. Black Friday game day tees off with Capital One skins game at 9am Eastern before the Big Bears Eagles game at 3pm and it culminates with a double dose of Emirates NBA cup action featuring bucks, Knicks at 7pm and Mavs Lakers at 10pm Only on Prime on Fox.

[Mike Ryan]

One, you can stream your favorite live.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sports so you're there for the biggest.

[Mike Ryan]

Moments as they happen. For me, I cannot deal with spoilers, so I need to see it live. Especially especially on college football Saturdays and NFL Sundays. With Fox 1, you get it all. NASCAR, the MLB postseason edge of your.

[Dan Le Batard]

Seat plays, jaw dropping moments and that.

[Mike Ryan]

Rush like you're right there in the action. Sports are meant to be watched live.

[Dan Le Batard]

And you can do that with Fox one.

[Mike Ryan]

Fox one, we live for live streaming now.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's a reason Chevy trucks are known for their dependability. Because they show up no matter the weather, push forward no matter the terrain and deliver. That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability awards for trucks than any other brand in 2025, according J.D. power, because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver, dependability comes standard. Visit Chevy.com to learn more. Chevrolet received the highest total number of awards among all the trucks in the J.D. power 2025 U.S. vehicle Dependability Study awards based on 2022 models. Newer models may be shown. Visit JD Power.com awards for more details. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Don LeBatard.

[Mike Ryan]

I think I would have been on his side. I would have looked at you like.

[Dan Le Batard]

What did you say?

[Chris]

I'm telling you, me and my friend, the rest of the way home, all we kept saying was, I ain't cheating.

[Mike Ryan]

Stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's like, why did you guys get your. He got your ass.

[Chris]

I got his way.

[Mike Ryan]

Chris. Chris won this one for sure. Not pathetic. Jeremy, it was great.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugach. Okay, this is one of the things I didn't want to get here with this, but the pull of Deion Sanders as a representative for defiant athletic excellence that will not bow in face of anything. For his son to now come through the league and a whole assortment of people making comparisons. No lie. I've heard it too much over the last 10 years of Chador being held back in some way because of what the league or how the league did Kaepernick, like you can see a whole bunch of things in the Shadow when Kaepernick happens that way. You can find conspiracy in a number of different ways. If you have all of your race biases and you can find that Shadore Sanders is being wronged by a league who doesn't want black excellence to succeed. So he becomes a symbol and an avatar for something. Him and his dad.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, no, he definitely became a symbol. The president of the United States was saying, what are teams doing? The guys on the board go ahead and draft him.

[Zaslav]

He took a victory lap over the weekend over Shadow's performance.

[Mike Ryan]

He should given. Given his take.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's just modern day Tebow is what I'm saying. He just like you like to say FSU is the equivalent of what's happening with religious evangelicals, Christian evangelicals. You realize that Shador Sanders is modern day Tebow. Just something to talk about because he's super famous. Super, hugely famous.

[Mike Ryan]

He represents a cause and I think we're out of our depth on it. And so we'll talk to Jamel. But I should probably acknowledge what Chu said about FSU on evangelical questions.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah.

[Chris]

What was that?

[Mike Ryan]

So you remember when FSU got shut out of the CFP and it was unfair? Of course I do like they won't let you forget it. Something, something happened then, not just the trajectory of fsu, arrow pointed down ever since then. But they got weird. They're very strange online and it was a traumatic event. I get it. And so privately, I liken it to like, when evangelical Christians saw a black president and then the country just kind of went in the direction that it did. That was something that forever changed FSU fans. And now they're just stuck in this really strange, culty place where they think every conversation's about them, but it isn't. No one really thinks about them. They think they move the needle. No one cares. But they are the center of every conversation around college football that exists. Lane Kiffin no, let's talk about fsu. And I understand. I follow a fair amount of FSU media and in part they're doing their job.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's a lot of it, too, incidentally. FSU. The following that this program has for 20 years of finishing in the top five makes it one of the, like, they want to believe they're one of the powers in the sport because they have been.

[Roy]

They do.

[Mike Ryan]

I saw Bud Elliott, who is a great follow. It does good work. And as someone that also is like a propagandist for his program, I'm down with it. I get it. But put out a video in which he's like this. Bringing Mike Norvell back sends a message to the Big Ten in sec hey, come get us and accomplish, pay us more.

[Roy]

What?

[Mike Ryan]

Dude, you got like two ACC wins in the last three years. This is crazy. The Big Ten. No one's thinking about you right now, if anyone's seeing that. It's not even a headline given everything that's in the coaching carousel. Like, you have to remind people. No, FSU made a formal decision to bring Mike Norvell back. Why? Well, they're flat broke, pal. Like, that's what it is. And they know that where they stack up with all the available jobs is they're not going to get a good guy to fill that role this season because they're a bit of a joke right now and it's going to take them some years digging themselves out of this. And I, we mentioned this yesterday. Go back to when they got shut out and we were over there pounding the table. They should be in there. The regular season should matter. It's a theme that has been consistent with me anyways. But I told you, this is a.

[Dan Le Batard]

House of cards, okay? The Seminoles were 13 two years ago, okay? And the collapse shouldn't go to 2 and 10 the season after that. But I do understand the history of the place. And when you consider culte campus communities, Zaslow visits them every weekend. Culty campus communities. Do you understand how FSU comes by generationally as the rulers of the acc? A weak acc, but no one questioned what was at the top of it. FSU knows that for 20 straight years, top five at the end of the season, they think they are the sec. They think that they deserve to be treated with their history as one of the greats in college football. Because that's Alabama before Alabama. Without the titles, it's 20 straight years of top fives. They think they're one of the big programs and they got Left behind in two years. Left behind in two years, which is.

[Mike Ryan]

Odd, granted, Miami hasn't been 13, 0. Good. Miami hasn't won an ACC championship with its backup quarterback. Good. Hell, Miami's been to the ACC championship once. But I watched what happened with them and they've gone a little nutty. And not just by a little. And I'm like, man, if Miami gets shut out of this cfp, for the love of God, I can't become that. Because that's embarrassing. To think that you're the central focus of the college football world when you're an absolute joke. No one, no one cares. No one cares about Florida State University. You have to make people care. You made them care two years ago. The whole world has left you in the dust. You were trailing behind and you thought you were smarter than everybody else, despite every single warning that your opposition laid out in front of you. And you kept thinking that your way was the right way. And now they're rationalizing this move, is thinking it's the right way too. And I'm just a little bit sad because I don't hate fsu. I respect them as a rival. I love the game. And they've just gone crazy. Like an old aunt that just went on Facebook and started doom scrolling and made it her identity. It's crazy what's happened with them. You know, Steve Spurrier has more ACC championships than the University of Miami. You know, Steve Spurrier never beat the University of Miami as a player or coach.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's cool. That is like, um, Tourette's.

[Mike Ryan]

You have that disarmed his ass real well. But he's down the propaganda list. He's got to go halfway down. I see your tweets, Timmy. I see your tweets, Stupal. You didn't want to invoke a guy that is a career Loser against Miami.

[Dan Le Batard]

Cool. You didn't even let the sat the stat sit.

[Mike Ryan]

That's why I'm a minister of war.

[Dan Le Batard]

Steve Spurrier.

[Mike Ryan]

Notice he didn't say defense, Dan.

[Roy]

He said war.

[Mike Ryan]

That's offense is war. He had a bar earlier to wash using, by the way, which was unreal. Yeah, it's a famous quote about. It was great. I've been googling famous quotes about war.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, speaking of which, thank you. Because I have this disagreement off air with Stephen A. Smith about right and left and right and wrong. And I want. I want to talk to Stephen A. A little more before I discuss some of the things publicly. No. And I'm not happy with him for a number of different reasons. So like that have to do. Mike Ryan tried to protect, I guess me for I thought it would be least insulting to state that Stephen A. Smith is a useful tool.

[Zaslav]

No, Mike jumped right in.

[Mike Ryan]

I tried to protect you because you were taken. You were taking some of that responsibility off of his shoulders and you were speaking for Stephen A. And it just wasn't right. And Stephen A. Has come out publicly and kind of cosigned what I said, which is like you don't speak for me. We don't agree. I'm not a victim. I'm not being used.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right. He's not being used. And he knows what he's doing allegedly. Right. Right up until you do that to Jasmine Crockett and then have to apologize and then you don't know what you're doing. Right. Because you apologize. So you didn't know what you were doing on how it is you got used. Is it useful tool there or you did know so. But I want to talk to him more about this privately before I have a public fight. I don't think these things, I don't think I talked about it well a few weeks ago. When these fights become instead of Trump's on McAfee, it's oh look, Beadle and Kerry Champion and Stephen A. Are fighting over here. Or instead of, you know, again, Trump's on McAfee. It's not political, but it becomes us fighting with each other in public. The minorities fighting with each other in public. I'd like to talk to him a little bit about this particular thing before I talk about it more publicly. And I will at some point because I don't actually wanna ruin a relationship or a friendship over something that gets said here that I haven't said to him. Cuz he does me the courtesy whenever he's critical of me, he does me the courtesy of telling me it's coming and so he tries to talk it out with me and I wanna talk to him about it before I go any further. But I regret how I talked about that Beatles stuff cuz it's just then the black woman gets trampled at the bottom of that and It's Trump on McAfee. Like I don't want to lose quite that way publicly.

[Mike Ryan]

Now's a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila. Cuervo, what are you doing here?

[Dan Le Batard]

Cuervo? Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, I do know that to be true. But even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think he could lay out especially for one of our great partners.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Mike Ryan]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.

[Dan Le Batard]

Cuervo.

[Mike Ryan]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all. Cuervo. Cuervo the tequila that invented tequila. Proximo Cuervo.com Please drink responsibly.

[Dan Le Batard]

Cuervo.