The Big Suey: Who is No. 7? (feat. Elie Mystal)

Summary

Detailed Summary of "The Big Suey: Who is No. 7? (feat. Elie Mystal)" – The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Release Date: April 28, 2025
Hosts: Dan LeBatard, Stugotz
Featured Guest: Elie Mystal
Episode Title: The Big Suey: Who is No. 7?

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Introduction

The episode kicks off with the hosts briefly engaging in promotional banter before diving into the core topics of the day. Initial discussions touch on lighthearted subjects, setting the stage for deeper conversations about current sports events and controversies.

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NFL Draft Analysis: Shador Sanders' Surprising Drop

Timestamp: [02:16] – [16:17]

Overview

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the unexpected drop of Shador Sanders in the NFL draft. The hosts explore whether his lower-than-expected draft position is a result of systemic racism within the league or other factors influencing team decisions.

Key Discussions

• Dan LeBatard's Perspective: Dan expresses strong frustration over the Giants’ handling of Sanders, drawing parallels to Eli Manning’s situation. He criticizes the Giants for not recognizing Sanders' potential, similar to how Manning was initially undervalued. Dan states, “They need to look no further than Eli Manning because there's ain’t a thing that Deion Sanders is doing that he didn't learn from watching Archie Manning” ([02:20]).

• Ellie Mistahl's Counterpoints: Ellie offers a more nuanced view, suggesting that while racism might be a factor, there are multiple elements at play. She emphasizes the complexity of the situation, saying, “I think that can be one of the factors. But I think a lot of people are seizing on a factor as opposed to the fact that this one had a lot of factors” ([12:43]).

• Amin Elhassan's Insights: Amin introduces additional layers to the discussion, mentioning potential political influences and team strategies that could have affected Sanders’ draft position. He speculates on external pressures, stating, “Jimmy Haslam, big GOP donors... Might have something to do with Sanders being drafted where he is” ([17:25]).

• Systemic Racism Argument: Dan argues that the pattern of Sanders' draft fall is indicative of racism, contrasting it with how white quarterbacks are treated. He asserts, “You don't have a lot of situations where people who are thought to be second or third best quarterback in the draft go through to the third day...” ([13:49]).

• Ellie's Nuanced Take: Ellie acknowledges racism could be a factor but cautions against oversimplifying the issue. She mentions other potential reasons for the drop, such as team dynamics and player performance metrics ([13:08]).

Notable Quotes

• Dan LeBatard: “The idea that you can’t draft Shador Sanders because [...] this is just beyond ridiculous.” ([07:41]
• Ellie Mistahl: “I think that can be one of the factors. But I think a lot of people are seizing on a factor as opposed to the fact that this one had a lot of factors.” ([12:43])

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The Significance of Uniform Numbers in Sports

Timestamp: [25:00] – [30:10]

Overview

The hosts engage in a lively debate about the most iconic uniform numbers in sports, exploring their historical significance and the legacy of the players who wore them.

Key Discussions

• Ellie Mistahl's Prompt: Ellie initiates the conversation by highlighting the prominence of the number 56, associating it with Lawrence Taylor (LT), a legendary figure in football.

• Dan and Mike's Contributions: Dan and Mike throw in their thoughts, mentioning numbers like 7 (John Elway, Michael Vick) and 99 (Wayne Gretzky), debating which numbers stand out the most in sports history.

• Interactive Poll Suggestion: To engage listeners, Ellie suggests creating a poll for the audience to vote on their favorite iconic numbers, adding an interactive element to the discussion.

Notable Quotes

• Mike Ryan: “Can I interest you in Keith Brooking? God, no.” ([29:08]
• Ellie Mistahl: “I can make the argument based on another defender's number. That resonates the way that that one does.” ([28:15])

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Basketball Playoff Game Criticism: Lakers vs. Timberwolves

Timestamp: [29:46] – [42:51]

Overview

Transitioning to basketball, the hosts critique recent playoff games, focusing on coaching decisions, player fatigue, and officiating controversies that may have impacted game outcomes.

Key Discussions

• JJ Redick's Coaching Decisions: Ellie criticizes JJ Redick for resting starters during critical playoff moments, arguing it led to player fatigue despite maintaining a lead. She questions the fairness of these decisions, stating, “How fair is the criticism that you’re playing your starters in a way that we haven’t seen in a playoff game in 10 years?” ([30:08]).

• Lakers' Depth and Bench Strategy: Mike highlights the Lakers' lack of depth, pointing out how relying heavily on key players like LeBron James without adequate bench support led to their downfall in crucial moments. “They're young. You can do it with them. You can't do it. Especially with the lack of depth that the Lakers have.” ([31:28]).

• Officiating and Game-End Plays: Dan delves into officiating issues, citing instances where questionable calls or decisive plays (like LeBron’s crucial block) affected the game's outcome. He emphasizes the unpredictability and sometimes unfair nature of game decisions. “But it went through. That still counts.” ([40:32]).

• Historical Game References: The discussion includes references to historical playoff games to illustrate points about game-end strategies and officiating, enhancing the conversation with real-life examples.

Notable Quotes

• Ellie Mistahl: “But the part I thought was unfair Amin is so many people are talking about JJ Redick playing only his starters...” ([31:28]).

• Dan LeBatard: “That still counts.” ([40:42]).

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Additional Discussions and Banter

Name Authenticity and Pronunciation

• Dan LeBatard clarifies the authenticity of his name and addresses common mispronunciations. “My name is real. My hair is real. It's Haitian.” ([18:13]).

Retired Numbers and Permissions

• Debate on Retired Numbers: The hosts discuss whether players like Lawrence Taylor retain control over their retired numbers and the protocols around assigning these numbers to current players. “I wouldn't have given it if I were LT.” ([28:15]).

Playoff Dynamics and Player Contributions

• Giannis Antetokounmpo’s Performance: Ellie highlights Giannis’s critical role and the challenges he faces when his teammates are unavailable, emphasizing the Bucks’ reliance on him. “The Bucks have outscored the Lakers in the fourth quarter by a lot...” ([36:18]).

• Controversial Shots and Game Clutch Plays: The conversation touches on controversial shots, like Karl-Anthony Towns’ three-pointers and Aaron Gordon’s dunks, questioning their impact on game outcomes. “Anthony Davis is. It's a terrible shot like that.” ([37:09]).

Playoff Game Rules Clarifications

• Ball In vs. Ball Out: The hosts clarify NBA rules regarding when a shot is considered made, debating whether the ball needs to leave the player’s hand or fully pass through the hoop. “If he had been above the rim, no. But because the ball had entered the hoop...” ([40:42]).

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with the hosts summarizing their passionate debates and reflections on the discussed topics. They maintain their signature blend of humor and in-depth analysis, leaving listeners with thought-provoking insights into the complexities of sports management and officiating.

Final Notable Interaction

• Dan LeBatard: “This is the Dan Lebatar show with the st.” ([24:19])

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Insights and Takeaways

• Systemic Challenges in Sports: The discussion on Shador Sanders highlights ongoing issues related to race and bias in sports drafts, underscoring the need for transparency and fairness.

• Impact of Coaching Decisions: Critiques of coaching strategies in playoff games reveal how pivotal decisions can significantly influence game outcomes and team performance.

• Cultural Significance of Numbers: The conversation about uniform numbers illustrates the deep connections fans have with iconic players and the legacy they leave behind.

• Officiating Influence: Questions around officiating and rule interpretations demonstrate the delicate balance officials must maintain to ensure fair play while managing the game's flow.

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Notable Quotes

1. Dan LeBatard: “The idea that you can’t draft Shador Sanders because [...] this is just beyond ridiculous.” ([07:41])

2. Ellie Mistahl: “I think that can be one of the factors. But I think a lot of people are seizing on a factor as opposed to the fact that this one had a lot of factors.” ([12:43])

3. Mike Ryan: “Can I interest you in Keith Brooking? God, no.” ([29:08])

4. Ellie Mistahl: “But the part I thought was unfair Amin is so many people are talking about JJ Redick playing only his starters...” ([31:28])

5. Dan LeBatard: “That still counts.” ([40:42])

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This episode of "The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz" offers a multifaceted exploration of current sports controversies, blending passionate debate with insightful analysis. Whether dissecting potential biases in the NFL draft or critiquing coaching strategies in the NBA playoffs, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the intricate dynamics shaping modern sports.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

Fellas, you know degree Cool Rush deodorant, right? Well, last year, they changed the formula and guys were mad about it. One dude even started a petition. So guess what? Degree heard us, admitted they messed up and brought the original Cool Rush scent back exactly how it was. And it's in Walmart, Target, and other stores now for under $4. So grab some and remember why its cool, crisp and fresh scent made it the number one men's antiperspirant for the last decade. Degree Cool Rush is back, and it smells like victory for all of us.

[Stugotz]

Now's a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila. Cuervo, what are you doing here?

[Dan LeBatard]

Cuervo?

[Ellie Mistahl]

Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Stugotz]

Well, I do know that to be true. But even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think he could lay out especially for one of our great partners.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.

[Dan LeBatard]

Cuervo, same.

[Stugotz]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

Cuervo, the tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo.com please drink responsibly.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Cuervo.

[Mike Ryan]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Why are you listening to this show?

[Mike Ryan]

A podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan LeBatard podcast.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm sorry. I'm not gonna apologize for that.

[Mike Ryan]

In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Ellie Mistahl]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fr. If they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Dan LeBatard]

I've done it.

[Mike Ryan]

And now here's the marching man to Nowhere Fat Face and the Habitual Liar.

[Stugotz]

This episode of the Dan Lebatar show.

[Dan LeBatard]

With Stugats is presented by DraftKings.

[Stugotz]

DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Unfortunately, our crack team of editors isn't able to edit things in a way that doesn't cause music to play. That affects our money. But they can find sound of me being wrong and Billy being right very quickly. Whether or not we've ever mentioned Jeff Ulbricht on this show before this prank, I said we had not. Billy said we had. It appears he's right. Let's play that sound. I just don't think that you do this unless you know what you're doing next. Like, you don't. You don't just fire him without knowing what the next news is.

[Mike Ryan]

According to Zach Rosenblatt from the Athletic.

[Dan LeBatard]

Jeff Ulbrich will be the interim coach. So he's the defensive coordinator now. The interim coach, apparently. According to Zach, he. He's beloved by the entire jets roster and staff. Well, that always works.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Should have edited Sampson out of there, too.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, that's probably a good idea. Just that last tail. Damn that last little tail of it.

[Ellie Mistahl]

He's the justice correspondent for the nation. He's a New York Times best selling author. His latest book, Bad 10 Popular Laws that are Ruining America, is available now. But we are here to talk to him about football, not politics. Ellie Mistahl is with us and I want to ask you, among other things, whether you want to answer this as a Giants fan or as a black man. Yeah, so I haven't even asked the question yet. Shador Sanders falling in the draft. Go ahead and answer that however you want. Giants fan or black man?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, no, I got to start as a Giants fan first, right? Like my, my, my, this is, this is what my team does, right? And if the Giants want to know how good a quarterback can be when they have a loud father who is manipulating the draft, they need to look no further than Eli Manning because there's ain't a thing that Deion Sanders is doing that he didn't learn from watching Archie Manning, right? People forget that Archie Manning literally would not let Eli play for the San Diego Chargers. Did the Giants say, like, oh, no, that's a locker room cancer waiting to happen? No, they were like, come, come, come. Come on over. We're going to put you, we're going to put you on our team. Tom Brady wishes the Giants had reacted to Eli Manning the way that they reacted to Shader. Right? Because he'd have two extra rings right now. It is pathetic. And the thing that I really, again, as a fan, first, this Brian Dabel is out here talking about how, oh, Shader Sanders, he didn't like. I didn't like how he reacted to our installation package. Brother, you 3 and 14, maybe your installation package sucks. Like, has that occurred to you yet? Like, look, if Chuck Schumer, in my world, if Chuck Schumer is going to like, draft me to run for Congress and he gives me the Democratic playbook right now, I'm going to be like, not Chuck. That ain't it. Because all y'all, all y'all do is lose. Maybe I got my own plays that I want to run, Chuck. Like that. And that's just in my world, there's the idea that you can't draft a quarterback because you didn't like how he reacted to your 3 and 14 installation package is just, it's, it's beyond me. So, yes, as a Giant fan first, what a disaster. As an African American male, look, ain't nobody do blatant racism quite like the NFL, right? Like, we, you know, right now we got a lot of people talking about, I can't believe these Latinos voted for Trump. Don't they know they're going to deport? And I'm like, brother, we watch the NFL. We can't talk. We can't talk to no Latino who voted for Trump because we watch the NFL. The league does this. The league plays in our faces like this all the time. And Sanders is just the most recent, most blatant example. And I know some of your listeners are going to be like, how can you tell it's racist? Because look, there are two kinds of racism, right? There's the racism that only happens because you're black. And people who don't like to think that racism exists, they love to talk about that kind of racism because as soon as they find one black man that it doesn't happen to, they'd be like, see, racism is solved. Barack Obama, what you got now? Like, you know, scoreboard Barack Obama, like, but there's a different kind of racism, right? And that's racism that never happens to white folks. And you never see, you never see a white athletic talent drop like a stone in the draft because they didn't interview well, right? Nick Bosa out here interviewing like he's a January six terrorist. Doesn't affect him, right? Johnny Manziel out here interviewing like he's Nick Cage from Leaving Las Vegas. Doesn't affect him, right? The jets, my, my crosstown rival team, their last quarterback interviewed like he was RFK Jr ain't had a bath in three years, probably got rabies. Ain't gonna affect him, right? But, oh, but Shader Sanders interviewed poorly, so we can't draft him. It's. They're playing in our faces, man. But the NFL does this all the time.

[Ellie Mistahl]

But Jackson Dart has a great name.

[Amin Elhassan]

Nice.

[Dan LeBatard]

From Ole Miss. From Ole Miss, right? From one of the most ridiculously, like, long term, like literally named their team after the Confederates. Ole Miss. Jackson darts the guy. And look, hope, again, I'm a Giant fan. Hopefully Jackson does. Does well. I don't want to, I don't want to shade Jackson just because of where he come from, right? I'm not like that. I hope Jackson does. Does well. But the, the idea that you can't draft Shader Sanders because, because he interviewed poorly or because you didn't like how he reacted to your installation package? That is, that is just beyond ridiculous. And they're going to be people who believe it. There are going to be people who buy that, who buy that record. I mean, I'm going to show my age a bit. But remember, I know I'm very old, so I'm embarrassed myself. But do you remember, like, the Wonderlic test?

[Ellie Mistahl]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Remember the year that, like, Steve McNair dropped in the draft because apparently he did poorly on the Wonderlic test? Like, when they want to come at you in your black, they're going to, they're going to pull some things out of, out of thin air to Steve McNairs. Deion Sanders. Right? Like, like, let's, let's be clear here. This is not a Lavar ball situation. This is not a situation where you have an American businessman who's carpet bagging the. Deion Sanders is in the hall of Goddamn. He is in the hall of Fame for their clique. He is a coach who is a really good coach. And you're telling me that his kid can't read a playbook, can't learn how to prepare for a game? Are you kidding me? I went to Harvard. My kid knows how to do homework, all right? He knows how to read a book. All right? Like this, this is kind of basic. There is zero chance that Shader Sanders does not know how to prepare for an NFL game. With that kind of upbringing, there's just zero chance. So, again, so, so, so these ideas that he is somehow, again, just on the strength of his interviewing, is not worthy of being drafted on the first two days of the draft. That, that is incredible on its face. And yet that's the game they're playing. And that's where I'm saying it's racist. That's where I'm saying, like, this doesn't happen to white folks. Right? Baker Mayfield can go on, can go on the sidelines, you know, with his hand in his crotch for the entire fourth quarter. Ain't nobody going to say anything. But when it happens to the black guy, now we have all. Dan, you would know better. Does Shader Sanders have a parking ticket? Does like this. This kid has, as far as I know, absolutely no off field issues, right? And we, we're talking about a league where some brothers got some off field issues, right? This guy doesn't have, as far as I know, a substance abuse problem. I. There's no video of him. Hidden women. He, he wasn't At a Diddy party. As far as I can tell, this guy does not have off field issues. So this is all about who he is and who his dad is. And somehow when he's black, having a famous dad and an outspoken dad doesn't hurt him at all. But when you're a Manning, I swear, if this man was named Seamus Manning instead of Shader Sanders, he'd have gone number three to the Giants. End of story.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let me ask you this because I'm honestly not sure what the answer is. If the Giants had drafted Sanders with a third overall pick, what would your reaction have been?

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, I hold my breath. I'm like, okay, let's go. This, this should work. It should work. He should be good. I don't know. I can't evaluate quarterbacks. I'm not Mel Kuyper. Right? But based on the information that's been given to me, he should be good. The only good football based answer that I've heard about why he might have fallen is the Travis Hunter collar. Right? It's the. Was he very good or was Hunter just an all world talent that covered up some of the things that he didn't do well? Right. And I don't know that as a friend of mine made the argument I was talking about Manzel or earlier, that it might be a Manzel Mike Evans situation where, you know, when you look back on it, Mike Evans is the person that is making John Johnny football look so good at A and M. Maybe that's one of the things. And so maybe that. So again, I don't know if he's going to be good, but the idea that he's again, cannot be drafted in the first two days based on what they're telling me. Right? Because what you don't have is a bunch of football people telling you about football reasons for why they're falling in the draft. When Mel Kuiper lost his ever loving mind during the draft, which was, I mean, that was just popcorn. Like, I love the old, the old school, Mel, right? He's losing his mind to Louis Riddick during the draft. What is Riddick coming back from him with? Right? Riddick's not coming back with him. Like, well, you know, he doesn't have the arm strength to make the. He's not saying that at all. Riddick is saying that. What he's hearing is that it's all these personnel issues, these personality issues, these interview issues, right? So even the NFL is not giving you football reasons for why this man fell.

[Ellie Mistahl]

There are some football reasons he Took a lot of sacks. His arm strength is down. Coaches aren't surprised by that. I should let you know. And this has happened to me because sometimes I read before pronouncing things publicly, I have said the word Panoche to describe someone like Deion Sanders instead of Panache. So I will let you know it's Shador, not Shader. I will just let you.

[Dan LeBatard]

I was saying shader.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Yeah, that's okay. It's just because people will nitpick about that. How do you counter the idea as many people will say, well, people drop in the draft, this isn't racist. This doesn't have anything to do with racism. And you can't say that if his name was Manning, he would have been the third pick in the draft. Absolutely. Instead of a fifth round pick. That, that's. You're being too much of an absolutist there about that.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, of course. Look, I can't prove it, right. Because one of the things that racists are pretty good at doing is not admitting what they're doing while they're doing it. Right. So you don't have Brian Dabel saying, like, I would have drafted him, but like, oh, too black for me. Like, it doesn't say that. Right. And so, you know, without that kind of, let's say, self incrimination, I can't prove it. What I can say is that you don't have a lot of situations where people who are thought to be second or third best quarterback in the draft go through to the third day and have most of the concerns about them to be personality concern. That just doesn't happen, right?

[Ellie Mistahl]

Oh, no, there's. There's never been a situation like this at all. This is. This has never existed. But as with many things that happen, I find myself very often seeing racism in some places. But on this one, I think there are greater factors than that one. I think that can be one of the factors. But I think a lot of people are seizing on a factor as opposed to the fact that this one had a lot of factors. There were, there were a lot of things that were confusing about this, including being able to untangle him from his offensive line and his wide receiver at Colorado, where they took a program that was the worst in the nation and made it matter and all of us had into the draft. We're all hearing he's the second best quarterback that never falls to the fifth round ever.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nope, it really doesn't. And here's, here's another thing, Dan, and I take your point again. You can't prove you can't isolate. It's never, it's, it's. We don't have the control, the perfect control group set up to prove the point to the level of the scientific method. But let's also think about this. Let's look at the fact that, you know, we're arguing about whether or not Dion, whether or not his dad, whether or not his famous lineage hurt him. I think what we can say pretty clearly is that didn't help him and it always helps white folks. Again, look at the Manning example. Like if you have concerns about his personality, his preparation and offensive line and all this kind of stuff, but you know, he's coming from a famous quarterback family, he's coming from a famous football family. If you're white, that usually helps. That usually helps arrest the slide, if you will, right? Anybody think if Arch Manning ends up being pretty, pretty decent and all early indications are that his, that he is. Although since I mispronounce Shadora, I should, I should do the same. If Arc Manning ends up being pretty good, right? Do we think that he's going to slide to the fifth round? Because people are worried about that man and family, you know, they got too much power in the NFL. You don't want the Mannings, you know, you don't want Eli and Peyton sitting in the, sitting in the ESPN room, reanalyzing and second guessing your playbook, do you? So we don't want the Manning family around us. So we're not going to draft our Arch like crazy.

[Ellie Mistahl]

It's crazy. What he's saying is crazy. And it's also not totally wrong. I think I can make the argument now and most people would agree with it, all things being equal at the end, Dion being his dad didn't help. Like, you can make arguments. It didn't hurt, but you can't make arguments. It helped. Like it being Dion's kid helped him at every stage along the way toward professional football and the first incarnation of professional football in college. But as soon as he gets to the pros, all things being equal, we can't make the argument that having a Hall of Famer as your dad helped him at all, correct?

[Amin Elhassan]

No, but. But I would make this point. If you have the physical skills that make you a high first round pick and nobody's disputing that, you can survive having a loudmouth dad, if I'm being frank, or an evolved dad who you're going to end up drafting along with the player. And you can survive everything else. You know, you can survive a Bad interview. If you have absolute number one pick skills and he didn't.

[Ellie Mistahl]

But we thought he did.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, not really.

[Ellie Mistahl]

I mean, the lowest anyone had him falling was the second round.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, Diana Rossini was on your air last week saying that she predicted he was not going to get picked in the first round and he was falling. I mean, it wasn't.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Yeah, but second round and fifth round, those.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes, that's the shock. That's unprecedented. And I would use this as anecdotal information. Mel Kuiper picked him number nine. This was the first time ever that a mel Kuiper top 10 pick has gone that low. I know that's anecdotal, but this, we haven't seen what we saw with Shador Sanders dropping Ellie.

[Ellie Mistahl]

People are accusing your name of being fake. They're saying it's too perfect. And the Mystal has an air of mystery around it. So is yours a nom de plume or is that a real name?

[Dan LeBatard]

My name is real. My hair is real. It's Haitian. And I feel like Miami listeners are gonna have met quite a few Ellie's. It's a fair, common Haitian name, but a lot of people think that I'm named after a girl. So, like, whatever, you just, you, you roll with what you got.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Well, the Mystal is, though, the, is the thing. It's got an air. It's, it feels like there's like smoke and mystery around.

[Amin Elhassan]

It sounds like a drink, you know.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like it's, it, it's, it's just Creole, man. That's, that, that's all that is. Look, I, I, I just to, to, to the point of, of like, if he had rock solid first round talent. That's the other thing about the draft, right? Like, it is not everybody knows that it's not an exact science. And so again, I kind of look at these other factors of like, you know, what should have helped him, what should have hurt him. And like Dan just said, like, there's, it's very clear that, that being Dion's kid did not help him. But you know what probably did help him? What probably did arrest the slide. And I hate saying this, like, very, very much Donald Trump's tweet. Donald Trump's tweet talking about how all these people were idiots for not. And you know, of course Trump had to do it in the most, like, eugenics way possible. Right? He's got good genes. Right. He's got, he's got superior genes. Like, that's how he had to do it because that's the way that that fascist man thinks. But bottom line, Jimmy Haslam, right, the owner of the Browns, he's a big GOP donor. My friend Joe Patrice on Above the Law, we were talking about this last night. He's a huge GOP donor. If you look that, that footage of Barry being forced to draft him, it seemed pretty clear that that wasn't his call, right? It seems pretty clear that he got a call from the owner saying draft that kid after they had gotten their super awesome 59 quarterback from Oregon. Seems like Jimmy Haslam kind of over topped his GM and made him do that pick. And I can't help thinking that might have something to do with Mr. He's got great genes. Trump coming out and saying something about it, right? Even this morning I saw the White House press briefing. What's her face? Not Kelly, the new Kelly was out there talking about how. Well, all she can say is that Trump tweeted about it and then he got drafted. Like that's literally what. That's the White House spin on this. And again, Jimmy Haslam, big GOP donors. So I can't say that that had nothing to do with arresting the fall and where he actually ended up.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Ellie's latest book, Bad Law. 10 popular laws that are Ruining America. We didn't talk about any of that. Next time. Thank you. Always good seeing you, Ellie. Always, always nice talking to you. Thank you, sir.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Stugotz]

Howdy folks. It's Mike Ryan here to remind you that Game Time is the official ticketing partner of the Dan LeBatard show with Stu Gotz. As you know, I talk about Game Time plenty on because I use it plenty and the weather is warming up. It is a perfect time to take family or friends, a whole lot of folks take them to a ball game. But before you do, why don't you check out the gametime app?

[Ellie Mistahl]

Why?

[Stugotz]

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[Mike Ryan]

Right now the Home Depot has spring deals under $20. So what are you working on?

[Dan LeBatard]

If you're plan on cooking out this.

[Stugotz]

Season, head to the Home Depot so.

[Mike Ryan]

You can fire up the grill with deals on charcoal. Right now get two 16 pound bags.

[Dan LeBatard]

Of Kingsford charcoal for only $17.88.

[Mike Ryan]

Was $19.98. Don't miss spring deals under $20 now through May 7th at the home Depot.

[Dan LeBatard]

Subject to availability.

[Mike Ryan]

Valid on select Items only.

[Amin Elhassan]

Don LeBatard, he has been great. He's made great hires.

[Stugotz]

I said all we've said all he said all night.

[Dan LeBatard]

Everyone has heard everything. First time I heard any of this.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Saying it's all been said.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay, you got to understand one thing. St me maximum.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's right.

[Amin Elhassan]

I say it, it hasn't been said.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay?

[Amin Elhassan]

Understand that. Until I say it, it hasn't been said.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is the Dan Lebatar show with the st.

[Ellie Mistahl]

A story from the Giants this weekend. Greg that I wanted to get your thoughts on. I don't know how the group fell fe. Abdul Carter saying that he wanted Lawrence Taylor's number. What are you smiling about, Tony?

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, you know, we talk about Shador Sanders going in with the headphones and being like, I'm the man.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm him.

[Dan LeBatard]

And then you get to a guy like Abdul Carter and you're like, yeah, I want Lawrence Taylor's number. Let me have that. That's some balls. But that's okay. Like, we're all good.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Is it okay?

[Amin Elhassan]

I can see him asking. He's the number three pick. He's supposed to be a great specimen.

[Dan LeBatard]

So is Dion Jordan.

[Mike Ryan]

Do we know?

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, well, well, well.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, Cam Ward got Warren Moon's number. Warren Moon just gave it to him. Warren Moon gave it to him, though. That's a different story.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Gave it to him, you're saying.

[Mike Ryan]

I mean, do we know if he meant number? Like, hey, what's going to say Taylor's number? I'd like to talk to him.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Well, they did talk afterward. They have spoken. For those of you who do not know, I think this happened. Did this happen? On Micah Parsons podcast, Abdul Carter said he wanted 56 Lawrence Taylor talk to him. And this is the quote from Lawrence Taylor after telling him, no quote. I'm hoping he's not thinking, oh, I got shot down by lt. I'm the guy that is right behind you. I'm going to be two steps behind you and make sure you don't fall. And that's simply bullshit. He's not going to be two steps behind you. What does that mean, by the way? No, it's just I said no to him, and I couldn't just say no to him. Bleep you. That's my number. No one will ever wear it again. Because it's disrespect, kid, for you to think you could wear it. That's not what he said. He said, I'm always gonna be behind him. Two steps behind him. And if you're two steps behind him, he's gonna fall on his back. And when he falls on his back, the uniform he's wearing is not gonna be number 56. You're not gonna catch him, and you don't want him wearing your number exactly.

[Mike Ryan]

Two steps behind means when he falls, you can't catch him. But you can go like, oh, no. You can do the fake hustle of, oh, almost, almost.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's the play right there.

[Ellie Mistahl]

But he says, I'm hoping he's not thinking, oh, I Got shot down by lt. He needs to be thinking that that's exactly what happened.

[Dan LeBatard]

Motivation.

[Ellie Mistahl]

That's the only reason you' number is because you got shot down by lt.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, typically there's a money exchange here. Did Carter offer him money?

[Ellie Mistahl]

No, it's only a money exchange. Usually it's only a money exchange if the player in the locker room already has the number. Usually it's not a retired number. I'm honestly.

[Dan LeBatard]

Million bucks for that LT jersey, by the way.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Is there the number 12 is associated with quarterbacks. I'm not good with uniform numbers, but 56 to me, I can make the argument it's the most famous number in the sport, is it not? Like I can make that argument based. Based on, I don't know, another defender's number. That resonates the way that that one does.

[Mike Ryan]

That blue 56. Man, that's timeless. That's timeless. You like, you have to pick another jersey. Maybe Manning 18.

[Ellie Mistahl]

18.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's TB12, right? Like he made the entire method out of it.

[Ellie Mistahl]

But a lot of quarterbacks wore 12. See, 56. I just associate with one player ever, and I don't do that. Go ahead. Forgive me, because I'm telling you, I'm bad at uniform numbers, but can you guys give me the second Most famous number? 56. Not just in football. Anywhere in sports.

[Stugotz]

13. Well, anywhere in sports.

[Dan LeBatard]

99.

[Ellie Mistahl]

No, no. Number 56 as a number. I only associate it with one player ever.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan. I've got another famous NFL number. I can only think of one guy. I won't even tell you who the guy is. I'll just tell you the number seven.

[Amin Elhassan]

Elway.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, wow, wow, wow.

[Mike Ryan]

Two Americas, Mike Vick. I was like, clearly Mike Vick. What are you talking about?

[Ellie Mistahl]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard show number seven, Elway or Mike Vick. The reason I'm saying 56 stands out is there are a lot of twelves. We can do Tom Brady on 12, but there are a lot of 12. It's a famous quarterback number.

[Amin Elhassan]

This is an interesting discussion because technically I don't think Lawrence Taylor makes that decision. I think the Giants retired that number. Like. Like the Giants would have to give permission to.

[Ellie Mistahl]

I'd. I'd argue that if LT gave permission, then the Giants would be okay with it, too. It's his number to retire. Maybe not. Maybe I've got that wrong.

[Amin Elhassan]

I wouldn't. I wouldn't have given it if I were lt. I think he's justified to. You know what I would have said? I would have said Abdul Carter, have. Have 50 sacks in your first five seasons and make four Pro Bowls, and then we'll talk.

[Ellie Mistahl]

That's what the phone call would have gone like.

[Mike Ryan]

Earn it.

[Amin Elhassan]

You know, you gotta want to earn. You gotta want to learn.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, Mickey Loomis.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan, I've got some 56s for you.

[Ellie Mistahl]

But off the top of your head, can any of you do the second Most famous number 56 in the history of sports? All sports.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm going NFL only here. Can I interest you in Keith Brooking? God, no.

[Amin Elhassan]

No.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Can you guys play this game with me, though? Just if I say to you, you have to nominate from your library of remembered numbers what you believe to be the most famous number in sports. And when you say 99, it's because the 99 is. It's not just the greatness of Gretzky, it's also. The 99 stands out more than the 56 does. You're not. It's just a number that's meant to stand out.

[Mike Ryan]

Number 23 from North Carolina. It's the only number that has a soundtrack with it.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Are there second? Is there a second place, number 23, that rivals Keith Brooking? There as a second is the Gulf between the first 56 and the second 56. Who's the second 23? LeBron James.

[Mike Ryan]

LeBron Raymond James.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Pretty good. Which is a good transition to talking about yesterday's basketball, because there is a lot of yesterday's basketball that I want wanted to talk about. A lot of people are making a big deal about J.J. redick. J.J. redick sitting everybody on his bench and playing his starters the entire second half, which is not something that has happened since 2013. And a lot of people are pointing out there's a lot to talk about from yesterday's games. I don't know if you guys want to talk about the officiating. I don't know if you guys want to talk about the Lakers on the brink or not. But the part I thought was unfair Amin is so many people are talking about JJ Redick playing only his starters the entire second half as if the Lakers weren't up late, as if LeBron didn't block a shot with 90 seconds left. That would indicate he doesn't seem terribly tired. LeBron didn't do anything in the fourth quarter, and it would make sense that the oldest player in the league would be tired. But they had the lead, and they had the lead. DiVincenzo was great at the rim, and then LeBron blocked him at the rim. So you tell me, I mean, how fair is the criticism that you're playing your starters in a way that we haven't seen in a playoff game in 10 years?

[Mike Ryan]

First of all, it wasn't the starters because Jackson Hayes started subbed out at the four minutes, after four minutes and never came back in. Like. Like Judy from Family Matters, went upstairs, never came back downstairs. Right? It is. It's absolutely a fair criticism to ask five guys to play 24 consecutive minutes, right, without any sort of a breather, without any sort of a break. And also, one of them is 40 years old. It's unconscionable.

[Ellie Mistahl]

It's okay to do to Julius Randle and Anthony Edwards.

[Mike Ryan]

They're young. They're young. You can do it with them. You can't do it. Especially with the lack of depth that the Lakers have. And that's part of the chess match. Sure, we'd all love to play with injuries off and fatigue off and just play my best five players and keep going like it's a video game. But that's not the job, right? Steve Kerr finds a way to play Guy Santos, everyone, Like, you've got to find your guy Santos. He's like, this guy shouldn't play on paper. Yeah, I'm not gonna trust him in a playoff game, but I've done enough throughout the year to develop him and to give him the confidence that when the time comes where I need to steal, I'm stealing minutes for Curry, for Jimmy Butler, whoever, right? It's the same thing here, perhaps even More so because LeBron is 40 years old. You've got to find minutes. And the thing that I didn't like. Well, I mean, this is what he said. But JJ was asked about it. He said, well, I asked the guys at the start of the fourth how they felt, and they all said they felt good. So I had to trust them. And I'm like, of course they're gonna say that. Who's gonna raise their hands? And, coach, I'm tired. No one's gonna do that. So you have to be the bad guy and say, I gotta steal it for you. I gotta find a lot of times what guys will do end of the third, beginning of the fourth, and then. And then we get, like, that quarter break in there. We extend that rest. But you went full 12 in the third and full 12 in the fourth. Of course it's going to happen that way. And if you look at the series, the Wolves have outscored the Lakers in the fourth quarter by a lot and a lot of that has to do because the Lakers are running out of gas. Which, by the way, I said when the Luka dodges trade happened, I said, this is an awesome trade. La, congratulations this year just use it as a kind of like playing around thing. Next year you guys are going to be awesome when you can fix this team around him and fit his skills. And everyone's like, oh no, the Lakers are going to go out right now. I'm like, what are you talking about? They have no bigs, they have zero depth. You think you could just waltz. I get it. Luka's great. LeBron's great. You think you just waltz out there in a playoff scenario and their greatness is just going to erase every other advantage. But here we are.

[Ellie Mistahl]

They played Friday night and then played again that soon afterward and put 19 points up in the fourth quarter and LeBron had zero points. What do you say to my point though, amin that with 90 seconds left in that game, not only were you still leading, you also got a challenge. You got two timeouts, you had a bunch of stoppages in play and the Lakers got overturned on an above camera angle. Like I could say they were gassed and it's the reason they gave up the lead in the fourth quarter. But at the end, you're still telling me that in winning time, the Timberwolves have more energy than the lakers do as LeBron blocks the shot. And if they don't go to the overturn there, the Lakers are going to have the lead with 12 seconds left.

[Mike Ryan]

Then what you just basically told me is I could go do cartwheels in the middle of Biscayne Boulevard and not get hit by a car. Ipso facto, I'm awesome at doing cartwheels across Biscayne Boulevard. No, it means that time it worked. So had they won that game because they were up, you could be like, oh, see, we didn't. There was nothing wrong. But the process is faulty. We know the process is faulty. The result is the result.

[Ellie Mistahl]

I think the bench is faulty more than the process.

[Mike Ryan]

That's what we're saying. The process is because of the bench and. And because they don't have the depth, he felt the need to do this. But then even when you're going to do this, even when you don't have the depth, you have to find a way to cheat some minutes for them. Some rest here or there. Maybe LeBron's out there and Luka's out. Maybe Luka's in and LeBron is out. Maybe they're both like Whatever it is, you have to find someone on that bench you can look at. Maybe like someone like Gabe Vincent, just give him a couple minutes in there because otherwise what you're doing is you're putting an immense pressure of perfection on them.

[Amin Elhassan]

Some of this is obviously playing the result, I think if the Lakers win. J.J. redick is a little bit of an avant garde guy who made a bold decision, but Anthony Edwards said the Lakers were gassed in the fourth, fourth quarter. I believe that. I mean, if he's saying it, I believe it. And I don't see Reddick living this down for the rest of this series if they lose.

[Dan LeBatard]

Anthony Chiccolo, number 56, chicken.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Look, the Bucs have lost eight of the last nine games that Giannis has played in and giannis in those nine games is averaging 30, 14 and 5. Damian Lillard goes out early yesterday. I don't know how many people are paying attention to that Pacers Bucks series, but it would appear that the Bucks are one loss away from Giannis being out of there. And good God, does Brook Lopez and the rest of that team look thin when Khris Middleton isn't out there and Jrue Holiday isn't out there. And it really does feel like Giannis is out there by himself and has no answers for what it is that the Pacers are doing. But the Pistons Knicks game I thought was the one from yesterday. The Clippers Nuggets ending was tremendous, but the no foul call and the officiating in general at the end of a couple of these games that are close makes it so that we can about a bunch of different things that don't give the Knicks the proper credit for how they won that game yesterday. It's not just Brunson being injured and then dominating the fourth quarter. It's Karl Anthony Towns hitting just ridiculous threes. Like he was so far from the basket on one of those that I'd argue that's a bad shot. And there were two bad shots I thought that won enormous games over the weekend. I know Jokic has made that shot a couple of times over. Anthony Davis is. It's a terrible shot like that. And the fact, the fact that they got a backdoor alley oop at the buzzer because they were defending so ferociously against. Don't let Jokic do that. The step back, he's going to fall out of bounds and throw it in from behind his neck. He's going to. It's going to be Jamal Wilkes jump jump shot. It's not even going to be a Normal jump shot. He's going to go well behind his head in a place that makes it the skyhook in terms of being unblockable. But it's a ridiculous, asinine shot. I mean, Aaron Gordon dunking that at the rim. How the bleep does that happen?

[Mike Ryan]

2010 Western Conference Finals Game 5 Los Angeles Lakers vs. Phoenix Suns Suns make a huge comeback, capped by Jason Richardson. Bank shot three. We've got all the momentum. They call timeout, we know where it's going. There are no illusions who's going to get the ball. And there are no illusions as to what he's going to do when he gets the ball. Kobe Bryant catches it on the right sideline. We aggressively trap the shit out of him. So aggressively that he air balls the shot. If he had hit the rim, if he had hit the side of the backboard, that ball goes outside. Over time, we probably win the game, right? Instead it's an air ball who's waiting right under the rim. Ron Artest catches it, lays it up, game over. That's how it happens sometimes. And that's. You want to know the word gravity in basketball? That's gravity. The gravity, the respect level is so high that we're going to sell out completely on everything in order to make sure that you don't beat us. But in that process, you then neglect someone who's just lurking around. And so Aaron Gordon and I was talking to my kid about this, a lot of people say Aaron Gordon, because he's six'nine he's got like a 40 inch vertical. Like. Yeah, but that's not what made him. He's right place, right time because he anticipated, he visualized, he said, if this ball comes short, I'm going to be ready. And that, ladies and gentlemen, that's what veteran play is. That's what championship winning basketball is. Is the guys who are thinking the game before it happens, not trying to react after it happens happens.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Can you guys remember off the top of your head a playoff game decided on a buzzer beating dunk?

[Mike Ryan]

Rockets versus Lakers 1983. I want to say 82. 83.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's a recall right there. Wow.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Can I ask, I haven't seen it very often.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can I ask you guys a question? Because I am actually confused about the rules. So when does the ball going in count? Is it when it goes through the hoop or when it leaves his finger?

[Ellie Mistahl]

You got to let go of it.

[Dan LeBatard]

Because if he's holding onto it and goes through the hoop, hoop.

[Amin Elhassan]

Is that a shot?

[Mike Ryan]

If the ball has crossed into the hoop.

[Dan LeBatard]

Even if his fingers are shot, doesn't.

[Mike Ryan]

Matter if his hand is on it.

[Ellie Mistahl]

It's.

[Mike Ryan]

It's that it has entered the hoop. Right?

[Dan LeBatard]

Any portion of it. Not. It has to go through. Just any portion.

[Mike Ryan]

I think most of it has to be in there.

[Dan LeBatard]

Because I saw the replay and I was super confused.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm like, well, if his finger's still.

[Dan LeBatard]

On it, but it's gone through, it's gone through.

[Mike Ryan]

That's why it counts. Now, if he had been above the rim, no. But because the ball had entered the hoop, it doesn't matter if he said, like, in an exaggerated fashion. Imagine if you put his whole arm and elbow in there.

[Dan LeBatard]

He did, like, a dunk contest. He's hanging from the rim. He's still palming it, which would be super sick. But it went through. That still counts.

[Mike Ryan]

That still counts.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Ellie Mistahl]

You guys, how do you feel about a game ending in a dramatic fashion? And the last punctuation that you get as a customer and sports fan is just some guy in a striped jersey saying, the game is over. The game is now over. Because nobody knew at the end whether the game was over or not. Not. And a lot of people found out. A lot of people were doing the examination of, hey, wait a minute. Is it again, it's so absurd to have a game end with a buzzer beating dunk? Then a lot of people are asking the same question of, does the ball actually have to be out of your hand or just does it have to go through the entirety of the rim?

[Mike Ryan]

Dan, you know what my favorite thing is? I went to game three, the one that the Clippers won. And that building is so phenomenal as far as the atmosphere. I've been there earlier this year, and I was like, this is terrible. Like, it's a beautiful building. But the crowd wasn't anywhere near good. Game three, the crowd was insane. And so I kind of regret that I wasn't there for game four, because I want to know what that reaction was from everybody just milling around, just milling about.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Your game can't end with people just milling about that. It's the antithesis of sports entertainment to have someone, like, think about what we're watching. Man, Jokic, I've never seen anything like that. And Aaron Gordon, that's all I've seen him do his entire career is he jumps up there and dunks. Now let's mill about and wait for someone to tell us that the game is over.

[Mike Ryan]

Hands in your pockets.

[Ellie Mistahl]

Joe Posnanski next.

[Dan LeBatard]

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