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Dan LeBatard
Now's a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila.
Stugotz
Cuervo.
Dan LeBatard
What are you doing here?
Stugotz
Cuervo? Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.
Dan LeBatard
Well, I do know that to be true. But even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think he could lay out, especially for one of our great partners.
Stugotz
Sweet, delicious Cuervo.
Dan LeBatard
Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.
Stugotz
Cuervo.
Dan LeBatard
So enjoy the tequila that started it all.
Chris Cody
Cuervo.
Stugotz
Cuervo.
Dan LeBatard
The tequila that invented tequila.
Stugotz
Proximo.
Dan LeBatard
Cuervo.com Please drink responsibly, Cuervo.
Chris Cody
Savor every last drop of summer with Starbucks. From bold refreshers to rich cold brews, the sunniest season only gets better with a handcrafted ice beverage in your hand. Available for a limited time. Your summer favorites are ready at Starbucks.
Jeremy
Welcome to the Big Suey, presented by DraftKings.
Stugotz
You listening to this show? A podcast that seems very similar to.
Jeremy
The other Dan LeBatard podcast.
Stugotz
I'm sorry.
Jeremy
I'm not gonna apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.
Stugotz
I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.
Chris Cody
I've done it.
Jeremy
And now here's the marching man to.
Stugotz
Nowhere, Fat Face and the habitual Liar. This episode is presented by DraftKings.
Amin Elhassan
DraftKings.
Dan LeBatard
The Crown is yours.
Stugotz
What do you guys make of the reporting from Brian Windhorse that executives and agents were calling him? Making fun of the Nets draft picks as the draft was in Brooklyn and they took all guards. They had five picks in the first round and just kept taking guards the way that Dugatz has suggested for years that NFL teams should just take quarterbacks in every round until they find one. What do you make of that from last night? Again, in an industry that is doing something last night that is highly unscientific, that is really super subjective, a lot of people think that they know that the Nets and the Pelicans don't know what they're doing. And those people get to say something, I mean, without anyone ever remembering that they could be wrong because of how long it will take Brooklyn and New Orleans to make them actually wrong. So it's one of the reasons that this thing is such a wonderful feeding frenzy for the media. It's got no accountability in it. Mel Kuyper every once in a while will bring back stuff that he said, cuz it sticks. But I assure you that anything said last night making fun of the Brooklyn Nets is not something that's going to be resurrected three or four years from now if the Brooklyn Nets are ever any good.
Chris Cody
Well, I think the Nets are in a different situation, right? They took a bunch of guys. I guarantee not all of them will be reporting to camp. They also got Danny Wolfe from Michigan, who I really like. I think they've got room to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. The reason why people like me and Tony and some other people are like, New Orleans, what are you doing? Is because they instantly put a bet on what they did, right? They said, hey, we're going to take this guy. Oh, by the way, how confident are we that this is going to work out immediately next year? Unprotected first round pick. And that's the part that makes it egregious. That makes you. What you're talking about is right, there's no accountability. But guess what? For the New Orleans Pelicans, within 12 months, we're going to have accountability very quickly.
Stugotz
Yeah, but those people have accountability and they lose their jobs because of that accountability. The media can just have a frenzy, not know who the players are, not see any of them play, not watch them because they're foreign, and then all of a sudden have very strong opinions about whether your team did what it was supposed to. It's one of the reasons I hate the NFL draft that the day after I don't know if my team's any better. Like, nobody knows if their team's any better. And it's just an exercise in annual stupidity. But everyone loves it. So I sit alone on an island of sports, as I often do. Like I was last night super lonely watching baseball games with Jeremy instead of the NBA draft.
Amin Elhassan
All the 13 Brooklyn Nets fans are out there are probably not even thinking about, like what this team could be. They're trying to figure out who these guys are, right? Like, you guys, you got a guy from Israel, you're like, who the hell is this guy? They, they had to pick top eight and they picked a kid from BYU who's a decent guard, but like, he's a. He's a guy that you're gonna have to project to be something good. Like later on they had Malawat right there. They had the kid that the Raptors drafted, Colin Murray, Boyles. Like there was players that they could have diversified their draft stock. Instead they got nine guards and a big who plays like a guard. And it's like what are we doing?
Chris Cody
The reality though, Tony, is that even if they, if they of every position they got a point guard, a shooting guard, a small forward, a power forward and a center. Five first round picks. Nobody does five first round picks.
Amin Elhassan
If you got five, you got none.
Chris Cody
Yeah, pretty much you got beyond none. It's way too much. Right. So the reality is they're not going to bring all these guys together. Right. And maybe some of these guys are never going to play for the Brooklyn Nets. They might get have their rights included into deals around the league. And I think that's the part that you just got to like factor into all of this is they don't have any sort of responsibility to anything because they've got the flexibility to do whatever they want. Cuz they're not supposed to be good next year.
Stugotz
Put it on the poll at Lebatard show. Has the draft gone from what is this guy? To who is this guy?
Chris Cody
Whomst.
Stugotz
Whomst? Whomst is this guy? I haven't used whomst Put it on the poll as well. Ebitard show. Have you ever used the word whomst?
Jeremy
Whomst. There it is.
Amin Elhassan
I also want to say something and look, too many French guys in the NBA draft the last couple years. What are we doing?
Chris Cody
They're taking over one draft at a time.
Amin Elhassan
We'll see. Taking over. There's one guy taking over. The rest of the guys they got.
Chris Cody
To prove it to our and Reese.
Amin Elhassan
Shea was nice coming on at the.
Dan LeBatard
End of the season.
Amin Elhassan
But you're looking at these guys from France, you're like, I've never heard like, who is this guy?
Chris Cody
We are not far from this guy. Yeah, from Canada and France whooping our ass every time they see us on the block. Not that far.
Amin Elhassan
Usa we're not that far. Do not do that to yourself. You don't sell yourself that pipe dream, buddy.
Chris Cody
Man, let me tell you something. You look at that. Canada team mvp.
Amin Elhassan
Yeah, they're not bad.
Chris Cody
Right? And then you start throwing it on Nemhard. Oh, you want Nemhard hounding Steph Curry up and down the court.
Amin Elhassan
Steph Curry, we don't know how long he's got. Olympic Lou Dort.
Chris Cody
Lou Dort out there muscling up on people. Benedict Matheran shooting every time he touches it. R.J. barrett. Oh, please, I'm running out of guys.
Amin Elhassan
You got Kelly Olenek on the block.
Stugotz
Is Olenek's name actually cruelly nickname? It's Mapledick.
Amin Elhassan
Yeah.
Jeremy
I mean, yeah.
Stugotz
Okay.
Jeremy
If you know, you know.
Stugotz
I don't thank you. Amin put it on the poll at Lebatard show. Are we weeks away from Canada and France wiping the block with us? I feel like Amin is just waiting for all sorts of apocalypses and looking at them through grinning. And that's me saying that. That's me who has been grinning through fear and apocalypse. I think Amin is with me now, fearing both A and France, which is unreasonable.
Amin Elhassan
He's in Canada too.
Stugotz
With me it's AI and climate change. With him it's AI and France and Canada and basketball. And then he names a bunch of fourth and fifth starters and bench players.
Chris Cody
They're gamers, though. Those guys are gamers. Gamers. You see that guy in the game seven?
Amin Elhassan
Yeah. The problem is game four, he sucked.
Stugotz
Did you see him miss all the free throws when they needed to just make one free throw to beat an OKC team that made three three pointers all game?
Chris Cody
I saw a guy show up in Game 7, look around, not see anybody with him, say, I got guys, put them on my back.
Jeremy
Kelly Olenek's nickname also, according to the Internet, the lunch lady.
Chris Cody
He does look like a lunch lady.
Stugotz
Yes, he does. Not as much as we Scola does. You put in a hair net that looks like the cafeteria lady. Put it on the poll at Lebatard show. Who looks more like the lunch lady? Luis Scola or Kelly Olenek? That's got to be 50.
Amin Elhassan
50.
Stugotz
We've got a new media beef and I'm sorry.
Chris Cody
Hooray.
Stugotz
Usually the hooray has more enthusiasm than that. That was a hooray soaked in indifference.
Chris Cody
I didn't want to overtake your take.
Stugotz
So you just interrupted it.
Chris Cody
Just a bed. It was supposed to be a bed underneath.
Stugotz
So you just interrupted it with a meek, half hearted hooray that no one heard. And then I had to ask. Stop the show and ask. What'd you say?
Chris Cody
Yeah, it's a radio term, Dan. A bed. That's when the sound is underneath what you're saying. Hooray. Go ahead.
Stugotz
Thank you for teaching me about radio. Doug Gottlieb has called Pablo Torre exhausting. And what you're. You guys are nodding on that in agreement.
Amin Elhassan
I'm just listening. I'm listening.
Stugotz
Wait a minute.
Jeremy
Beyond just knowing about Paul, every person perked up.
Stugotz
Wait a minute. What just happened there is physically funny. I said Doug Gottlieb has called Pablo Torre exhausting. And Chris Cody, looking exhausted, yawned in my face. So Pablo does to me while nodding that yes, confirming that he sides with Gottlieb.
Chris Cody
In this beef, Dan, I felt like the gif of the woman with the Tate seeing kombucha for the first time, where he said, Doug Gottlieb. I said, ugh. And he said, has called Pablo Torre exhausting. Maybe you lost me and you got me right back in.
Stugotz
All right, finish the statement and disingenuous.
Amin Elhassan
Now lost me again.
Stugotz
After his recent episode, Pablo Torre finds out where he produces 61 pages of documentation that the NFL and NFLPA do not want you to see about how all of these people colluded because, whoa. Deshaun Watson got a lot of guaranteed money. We can't control ourselves. Let's cheat. All of us. Let's all cheat because we don't know how to control ourselves. In a bidding war when there's a quarterback available who may be like, right on the cusp of being a criminal.
Chris Cody
What was his second highest bid for Deshaun Watson? I'm curious. Anyone ever asked.
Stugotz
There were many bids. There were many bids to get him to that guaranteed money. But this goes on here. Quote, Pablo Torre as a guest is amazing. Pablo Torre as a host at times can be a little exhausting, and I'll tell you why. He's way too smart to be talking about sports. And he's searching so bad for that Aha. Gotcha. That I think he's being disingenuous or he's frankly misusing the idea of collusion.
Jeremy
Gotta digest that one.
Amin Elhassan
So he's misusing the idea of collusion by being too smart to talk about sports and grasping for an aha moment.
Stugotz
Is Gottlieb still doing the daily show that LeBron made fun of him for doing while he was making fun of a school that he didn't think he had to prepare that much for? And then he lost to that school as part of like a 19 game losing streak. Because Doug Gottlieb, I don't know what their record was at Green Bay, Wisconsin last year. They won like three or four games. But he was also doing a daily.
Chris Cody
Radio show out of Green Bay, Wisconsin. Really? The Gottlieb is big in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
Stugotz
Well, I think it's a national show. I don't think it's a local show.
Jeremy
They were 4 and 28.
Stugotz
But it would be difficult, I would think, to be doing a daily show. I don't know. Amin was teaching me about radio earlier, so maybe he knows a daily radio show. And coaching a college basketball team seems to be hard.
Chris Cody
We call that cadence, Dan, the number of times a week.
Jeremy
Now he's busy.
Amin Elhassan
0 for 14 in conference play and they endured a 21 game losing streak.
Stugotz
Denny's Hamlin Amin mentioned liking Danny Wolfe from Michigan. Why do you like him? Obviously his size. I want to show you a picture here of Danny Wolf's brother when he was drafted last night. Ugly crying. There's an ugly crying face. He can't be happy about that this morning.
Jeremy
I don't get happy tears. You guys do happy tears. Oh, Jeremy, I did happy tears yesterday. I love happy tears.
Stugotz
I do that a lot too. Yeah? Yeah.
Jeremy
I just don't get it.
Stugotz
I've done it. The gratitude wells up in you so much because something moves you and then it leaks out your eyes because it can't stay in your body.
Jeremy
Gratitude.
Stugotz
Okay, that's.
Jeremy
I mean, that's pretty much what it is.
Stugotz
Yeah.
Jeremy
I think it's also. You and I relate here, Dan. It's sort of emotionally on the edge at all times, so you could push me in one direction or another and I'm probably just gonna cry.
Stugotz
He looks like he ate a lemon while cutting onions at the same time. It is really good. Ugly crying. And it's the brother of a seven footer, so my guess is he's also pretty tall as well.
Chris Cody
You see no other heads in the shot. He is miles above sea level right now.
Amin Elhassan
You do see another head. It's just at his shoulders. Look at. They pan over. There's a guy with gray hair that just kind of shows up out of nowhere.
Stugotz
Put it on the poll, please. At Lebatard show. Is the brother of a seven footer ever under six feet? I'm just. Or the sister is the sibling. Is the sibling of a 7 footer ever 5, 3. If they are indeed biological siblings.
Jeremy
Samson size. That's funny.
Stugotz
Yes. Shaq and Samson, like, there are Schwarzenegger and DeVito and twins.
Chris Cody
Tony, the guy with the silver hair. Oh, there you go. I thought you meant like the photographer.
Stugotz
No, no, no.
Amin Elhassan
I'm talking about this guy right here.
Chris Cody
That's Gustav Sporzingis, man.
Jeremy
For the audio. Aud Red. You think his face is, it's redder. However far you think his bottom lip is being stuck out while the corners of his mouth are frowning. It's further than you think. However greasy you think the combo of the hair and the faces, it's greasier than you think. However far down eyebrows. It's steeper than you think.
Chris Cody
It's the pyramid of Giza. Right now. This one eyebrow is going up this way.
Jeremy
It's incredible.
Chris Cody
Going back to Sines and cosines. That's a 45 degree angle.
Jeremy
Dan, can you do that with your eyebrows?
Stugotz
I cannot.
Chris Cody
He doesn't have that kind of power.
Jeremy
Peter Gallagher, maybe.
Stugotz
My eyebrows are more starched. They don't have flexibility. They're dry cleaned. They don't move around.
Chris Cody
This guy's right here, man.
Stugotz
Let's play Malika Andrews making a mistake that I could very easily make. It would happen to me. I'm not kidding. It would. It would happen to me. I told you guys recently that I thought newspaper headlines had gotten very cruel. When I read a headline, coward forgoes Duke enters NBA draft, I'm like, my God, those headline writers are getting personal there. But no, it just turns out that his name is Cedric Coward. And Malika Andrews again made a mistake I could very easily make. So the Portland Trailblazers select Colin Coward here. A stunning pick.
Jeremy
You can hear her reading something else while doing that. She's, like, distracted. She's like, colin Cowherd here. Like you can. There's definitely a producer's voice in her ear at that time, too. So she's trying to read a sheet that says what the name is of the player and find it in the slot on the best available. And she definitely has a producer. And as Lewis talks in my ear, it's the same thing. So you can maybe hear. If Lewis just keeps talking, you can hear her distraction through the microphone. It's really. It's difficult to do.
Amin Elhassan
Colin Cowherd's at home like me. You know, the meme of the guy.
Stugotz
Like, he's at home. Let's play that again. You imagine the stunned fans learning. Wait, we. What. What did we draft? So the Portland Trailblazers select Colin Coward here. I mean, is he gonna get. Yeah, Drew Holliday's gonna be throwing it to Cowherd in the post, and then he's just gonna give people a bunch of bad opinions.
Chris Cody
3&D, they talk about John Wall like, oh, I don't like that dance, Dougie.
Stugotz
They throw it in the post. And all of a sudd college just. I don't like guys with backward hats.
Jeremy
So his name is Cedric Coward. Right. So do we think that what this was is on the big board that Malika's looking at? It's just first letter, first name, dot, last name. And so you got C dot, Coward. And maybe brain auto fills with. Gotta be full on there. Nobody. Nobody knows any of these. I just don't know. I mean, maybe her own notes.
Chris Cody
Jeremy, this is tv. They're. They're Handing you a full. A full name with a pronunciation. In case you don't know how to say Coward.
Jeremy
I know how to do it.
Chris Cody
You don't say damn.
Amin Elhassan
Miami New Time sideline reporter of the year.
Stugotz
Teaching people how to do radio and television today. And nobody wants it. Nobody wants it. I've got to think that Cedric Coward has at some point considered changing his name. No. Put it on the poll at LeBatard show to Bill Coward. If you are an athlete at Lebatard Show. If you are an athlete and your name is Cedric Coward, do you think about changing your name and then the next poll. Do you think about changing your name to Bill Coward?
Amin Elhassan
I think Malika just got caught up because a couple picks before Colin Murray Boyles got picked, so there was a Colin already floating in the ether. The next pick was, Come on, Malu. Watch. Which is a mouthful. And you're trying to figure that out. And then the next guy you're looking at Cedric Coward. And then all of a sudden, Colin Coward comes out of nowhere. There he is.
Chris Cody
By the way, you say that Cedric Coward should change his name. There was a guy who played for the Nets a couple years ago whose name was, and I quote, David Duke Jr. And they asked him, you wanna call it Dave Davey? He's like, nope. And they said, you know who David Duke is? He's like, yeah, but I'm gonna be so good, I'm going to change the perception of that name. That was his outtake.
Amin Elhassan
Nah.
Chris Cody
Yeah, exactly.
Amin Elhassan
Where is he now?
Chris Cody
I don't know. Running for governor.
Jeremy
How good would he have to be?
Stugotz
Speaking of, where is he now? There was a player last night, and you help me here because I've heard about this, have not seen it, so I've just been told. And this is just B roll, so there's not going to be audio with it, but that somebody was drafted by Toronto. And, you know, this is something that is true here. I mean, a lot of times American players, and this is why Toronto and Vancouver a million years ago don't get many of the free agents. A lot of American players don't like the idea of being removed from America and having to go to Canada. You tell me whether this is going to a bad team or a country that he doesn't want to go to here.
Chris Cody
Yeah, he gets up and shakes his head, finds his thing and says.
Stugotz
He mutters under his breath, bleep. It's just. That is not happiness. Correct. That is. He's buttoning his jacket and it's like, bleep. This is a moment for all time. This is a lifetime dream. Bleep. I'm not happy. That is sheer disappointment that you can't. He can give all the quotes about being. Is that about Canada? That has to be about Canada.
Chris Cody
Look, it could be about a number of things. Canada, the Raptors not being a good team. The Raptors having a lot of players who are kind of his position. They have a glut of these combo wings. But then the other thing is the reason why guys don't like playing in Canada, it's not, look, Toronto, people love Toronto.
Stugotz
Toronto's a great city.
Chris Cody
Toronto's a great road city. Come in, you party, you do this.
Stugotz
It's a great city. Period.
Chris Cody
Great everything, right? The problem is, first of all, this is the taxes, right? Tax levels are escalated there. They're higher than even New York or California. Number two, the number of logistics coming in and out of the country. So my family wants to come see me. It's not like flying to Indiana and. Okay. And then you gotta go through customs and all this stuff. So it's a very cumbersome process. Number three, and this is gonna sound ridiculous, guys don't like the metric system.
Stugotz
Them.
Chris Cody
They really get bothered by like, okay, a kilometer. How's that? Miles and stuff. It's different enough for you to know I am not in the America anymore. And that's enough of a mind bleep for you guys.
Stugotz
Okay. I appreciate your efforts in going those lengths to try and figure this out. I don't think it's the metric system that made him curse as he was getting up there. I do wonder if we're being unfair to Colin Murray Boyles, though, because it could just be. That's a whole stressful process. And he was happy that it was over.
Jeremy
Disbelief almost.
Stugotz
And finally, I don't know. I don't know. It seems unfair. Fun, but unfair to assume that it's the metric system that's bothering him there. And not just that the last few hours have been a little stressful.
Chris Cody
This guy goes into a McDonald's and he orders a Royale with Cheese. You telling me that's not stressful?
Amin Elhassan
A centimeter bothered does seem to mouth the word.
Stugotz
Oh, that was clear that he did mouth that. But it could just be because he was. Did he expect to go earlier for new coworker?
Amin Elhassan
No. Or maybe he doesn't have a passport or winter clothes.
Stugotz
Maybe he could.
Chris Cody
Winter clothes is a big one too.
Jeremy
He's from South Carolina, so going to Canada is quite the stretch. And Houston was next Maybe he just really wanted to go to Houston. He's like, all right, KD just got traded there. They're maybe gonna win. And now he's going to the Raptors. Bunch of guys at his position.
Chris Cody
Different thing in his mind. It's like being sent to St. Bonaventure or somewhere like that to spend the rest of your days just a cold, icy tundra.
Jeremy
Guys, I want to talk to you about something that I don't think we think about enough on a daily basis, and that's comfort, specifically when it comes to underwear. Because let's be real, when it's not right, you're gonna feel it all day. And that's why I want to tell all of you about Tommy John. Because the first time I put on a pair, I knew my underwear drawer would just simply never be the same. Tommy John just recently sent some of their product to those of us in the shipping container. And this is my first time wearing Tommy John underwear. I was really blown away by. By the comfort, by the stretch that was available, within the design, by the texture. There's a genuine comfort. And I can tell that they put in effort to make sure, specifically in our case with men, that we would feel comfortable. Honestly, Tommy John's changed the game for me. I know it's gonna be a good day now when I walk out the door and I've got Tommy John on. No distractions, no adjusting, just all day confidence. If you haven't tried Tommy John yet, I personally think you're missing out. These are the MVP of your underwear drawer with up to four times more stretch than other brands, something I definitely appreciate. Double down on comfort with Tommy John and get 25% off your first order right now@tommyjohn.com Dan with promo code Dan. Save 25%@tommyjohn.com Dan.
Dan LeBatard
Jeremy, you know something about me, right? You know when I'm grilling outside and it's summertime? You know how I supplement my summertime?
Jeremy
Of course I do.
Dan LeBatard
I make it Miller time.
Jeremy
Of course.
Dan LeBatard
That beautiful white can. Oh, when it's so hot outside, I just. I just put it right to my forehead right there. And I just roll it sometimes right on the forehead, cool my body down, and then I crack it open. Instant relief. And then that first sip, brother, does that first sip.
Jeremy
That is a top five sequence of events that you can possibly go through.
Dan LeBatard
I'm just serenity now. When I just imagine that first sip of Miller life, just thinking about it.
Jeremy
It'S making me happy.
Dan LeBatard
Dude, the sun is out it's night. You have your friends showing up. You got your family there. You just had your first sip of Miller Lite. And you know what? You're happy. You're blissful. You're fulfilled. I've been stocking my cooler with Miller Lite four years and for good reason. It's brewed for taste only. 96 calories and 3.2 grams of carbs. This year, Miller Lite turns 50. That is five decades of cookouts, laughs, and ice cold moments that never miss. It's the original light beer. And it's still, still my. Go to Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Cheers to 50 years of Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.
Jeremy
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Stugotz
Don LeBatard. No one else here is willing to do a Trump or a Biden.
Dan LeBatard
That's not true, Dan.
Stugotz
Okay, Tony, you can catch a thousand impersonations.
Jeremy
That's not bad, man.
Dan LeBatard
Finally.
Stugotz
Pretty good. Stugach.
Amin Elhassan
Yours is terrible.
Jeremy
You just gotta get a little redder A Little Pinker. You're right there, man.
Stugotz
Yours is not that you're biting.
Jeremy
What do you mean?
Amin Elhassan
Oh, his is good.
Jeremy
That's actually not bad. That's not terrible. We gotta come together.
Amin Elhassan
A little Southern, little Bush.
Jeremy
A little George Bush in that one.
Amin Elhassan
This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.
Stugotz
Everyone here sides with Doug Gottlieb over Pablo Torre. Is that something that just happened? Pablo Torre is doing important reporting. He's doing good reporting. He's one of the last people out there actually doing some of the work required. And he's getting some awards, but he's also getting some blowback. And I think it's because it's Pablo Torre. I think if it was somebody else reporting this, it wouldn't be received the same way.
Chris Cody
It is. It's real journalism, it's real news breaking. Oh, so and so's about to go. That's not news breaking, that's news breaking. What Pablo does.
Stugotz
But it makes me wonder, I mean, and this is a larger conversation. I know you guys are tired of hearing me talk about it, but at least some of you are here in part because you line up with some of this show's principles and frankly, your relationship with the show, if it goes back 20 years, you care about some of the things that we care about. When you say Amin, quote, unquote, real journalism, I'm more convinced than I've ever been that people don't want that.
Chris Cody
Well, people don't know what it is.
Stugotz
Correct. And so they don't want it and they reject it out of hand, viscerally. It's like I've never tasted broccoli, but I don't like broccoli. I just know I don't like it. And so you've just made up your mind before you've even tried it or thought about it. What Pablo Torre is doing is extraordinarily difficult. He's at a trough where all news gatherers are and he's consistently finding things, reporting them, vetting them, taking them through lawyers and making people unhappy. Because power doesn't want you to see things that are true. To me, that's one of the most important things in journalism and one of the most heartbreaking things to see over my last 20 years in it is that I care about it deeply. And man, so many people do not at all. Don't care enough to even get informed about why they reject it viscerally. Now in Pablo's case, it's the condescension, right?
Chris Cody
That's why I wanted to stop you because I don't think it's against all journalism. I think it's Pablo specifically. For instance, you never hear people talk like that about Seth Wickersham, who I think does the same kind of excellent.
Stugotz
Reporting, but he's not getting the attention that Pablo presently is. Where Nick Wright's looking around and saying, I don't get the big deal. Why is everyone writing about this guy and talking about this guy?
Chris Cody
You know why though, right? Because Pablo over the last year has done a lot of the great reporting, including whether the hotel in Oklahoma City is actually haunted or not.
Stugotz
And whether Giannis is missing free throws on purpose so that the fans could get free chicken.
Chris Cody
Incredible reporting, great episodes. Thank you.
Stugotz
Peabody worthy.
Chris Cody
You know what? One nomination is for everybody. But the part that gets him the ire and the attention and the level of scrutiny and comments like that are because he did Marcus, Jordan, Larsa, Pippin and Cuz. He did Belichick and Joe.
Stugotz
Yeah, he goes high, low, he goes. He can do both things, but those.
Chris Cody
Are the things that bring the negative attention.
Stugotz
It brings some of it. But I also think that it feels to everyone, oh, he's. He's reporting this from the yacht club, isn't he?
Amin Elhassan
That's the issue, right? It feels like he's like on a high up castle and being like, you peasants, I will let you know what you need to know. And then we're like, wait, what? I can read this in the tabloids.
Stugotz
Yeah.
Jeremy
Like, what if I reported it? Then it'd probably be received better, right?
Chris Cody
New Times, they would say, well, he's everywhere. Look at him.
Stugotz
You can't do that with the work, though. The work ought to be able to speak for itself. And what I'm telling you is if the NFLPA and the NFL doesn't want you to see it and Mike Florio is out there. Mike Florio is connected and he can't get to this story and he's trying to get to this story. Pablo Torre is finding out things that other people aren't finding out. It's a valuable service and I don't believe it's the message that people are objecting to. I just don't know. I believe it's the person to the degree that people are objecting to it because it's getting a ton of applause and should.
Chris Cody
Can I pitch an idea? Perhaps we can even turn this into content. Pablo Torre makeover right now. He's detached, he's unrelatable to the common man. He's a Harvard Grad from New York City, the very embodiment of a liberal elite. This is what we do. We take Pablo to Oklahoma City for a month. Get him some regular people clothes, working folks clothes, maybe some wrangler jeans, some dickies go to the boot. Scootin Tupe or whatever the hell that shit is called. Right?
Stugotz
Work boots. So you now have him line dancing.
Chris Cody
In work boots and drinking. Drinking strong American beers. Like, right, Miller. Like Miller.
Stugotz
Like Miller. Like. Like Miller, like. You know what? Hold on a second. I'm sorry, I was on a roll. Hold on a second. Hold on.
Amin Elhassan
He was right there.
Chris Cody
Bush International Airport is what I was talking about, Major. You fly to Houston.
Stugotz
Out.
Chris Cody
And then you.
Stugotz
Not another word like, that's the most egregious of offenses. Out. My God, don't bleep with the money.
Amin Elhassan
In my mean, he was onto something, though.
Stugotz
No, he wasn't.
Amin Elhassan
No, no. We make Pablo relatable to the common man. We put him in some basketball shorts, we put him on some sandals, let him walk around. Not. This is the jean. All the stuff that he wears. All these fancy things. Come on.
Stugotz
You guys have the right idea. And I do believe that we should have a game show where we try to teach Pablo how to be more likable. I will have to recuse myself. I know nothing about how to do this. Don't worry, I'll help you.
Jeremy
Everyone else. Everyone else thinks I can help me, and I just don't think I can.
Stugotz
Help Me and Mike.
Jeremy
No, everyone else thinks I can help. You're the only one who doesn't think I can help.
Stugotz
I don't believe I'm the only one.
Jeremy
You've convinced this whole audience I can't help, but I can help other people think I can help. Was that helpful?
Stugotz
I mean, I don't believe that you or me should be teaching Pablo anything about likability.
Amin Elhassan
Common man, I don't think of you and Jeremy as like the number one common guy.
Stugotz
I have asked people. I've never taken any classes. I've never done anything other than pay lip service to some of this. I have not taken an action to be more likable. But you have heard my. My lament over the course of 20 years here on this show that hasn't improved any. Which is, I know my message is, okay, it's the messenger that's the problem. Like, it's my tone. It's strident. It's obnoxious. It's emotional. It doesn't get any better. It yammers. It thinks it's right. It's all the things Pablo is. No one in the media's history has ever been more like me than Pablo. And so I am here. I've already taught him everything I know. And this is the circumstance. He has all of the information that I can impart. And the result is this. What is in front of you. Reporting from the Yacht Club.
Jeremy
Why hasn't he listened to Reali? Feel like he could give him good advice?
Stugotz
I don't think it's that easy to teach likeable. I think it's really hard. I would say that I told Reali this the other day. I think we said it during the south beach session that we did. His greatest gift is likability. It's what makes like. Of course he's good at television. He's very good at television. But people don't leave reality not liking reality. I'll tell you this about somebody else too, because I was talking about this with Eduardo Perez last night during the live cast, this live stream that was baseball while the basketball draft was going on. Tim Kirkjin is the rarest of media entities that has fed all his life off of baseball and clubhouses. And no one has anything bad to say about Tim Kirkshen. And it's stunning to be 50 years reporting things, some of which the athletes and executives don't want other people to know. And Tim Kirkshen doesn't have an enemy in this business. But I would also say that in the business that we're in, you go ahead and give me all of the people at the very top of the food chain in whatever it is that you consider sports content, and give me all the ones that are there because they're likable. Because the most famous one I don't think are. I don't think likability is one of the traits. I think you want people to listen to you and you want the people who don't like you to also listen to you. And if they don't like you, as Howard Stern says, they often listen more than the ones who do. So when I say top of the food chain, obviously Kirchen's at the top of the food chain. But when I say the people in our industry that you regard as the most famous giver of sports opinions, give me the likable ones.
Chris Cody
Well, let me start with. Kirkshen doesn't really give sports opinions as much. Right. A lot of his stuff is factual reporting and context. He'll give a lot of that, especially when he talks about historical things. But he's not out here saying, like, I think Skeens is the best pitcher in the game right now. He doesn't do that.
Stugotz
He does do some of that, but it's got the historical information and context that people understand. This is an expert. And he's not saying. Saying controversial things. And he's certainly not judging or smearing character very much or performance in a way that would be cruel, mean, or outsized. But that's more rewarded now than it ever is. So if I do a likability chart on whoever it is that you consider the ratings movers, for example, I'll give you one example. Right. So yesterday on the show, I said, I think it's unlikely Shannon Sharpe works at ESPN again. And I thought all of what Shannon did was carefully staged in order to make it look like that was his decision. And he did ESPN a favor by making it look like all of that. Because I don't think ESPN wanted to make any of that worse than it already was by firing him, suspending him, or even commenting on any of what's happening there. So Shannon can exist doing the stuff that he's doing on the stuff he owns, but the stuff that other people own. He cannot do whatever he wants. But the argument against what I'm saying is, well, he moves the needle, Dan. There aren't that many who do. Like, he actually produces ratings. And then where does Disney or any corporate giant have to do the math of in my lifetime, that all happens around someone and they are not likely to return to Disney. But in this particular case, you have a totally different media landscape. And you've also got Disney getting in the business of we're going to rent some of these mercenaries, free agents, people from the outside. We're going to give them platforms, platforms. We're not going to own them. We're going to give them independence so they can do other stuff. And so maybe under these circumstances, I've got it wrong. I don't think we'll see Shannon Sharpe on ESPN again. But maybe ESPN needs whatever it is that Shannon Sharpe is doing because he is actually one of the few needle movers. But it's not because of likability. And I like him, but it's not because of likability. It's because he gives opinions. And the two things almost, I would say, can't coexist to be done the very best way that returns ratings, given that you're trying to do something that appeals to the broadest net of people, and therefore you're going to have people who watch it because they like your cruel. Stephen A. Smith's judgment of people has gotten more performative and more wrestling than it's ever been. At least in part because it's obviously rewarded.
Chris Cody
It works, cuz it works. It works. And it goes back to the Cosell thing that you were saying, which is they listen to you because they like you. And if they don't like you, they listen to you even more. Was it Howard Stern that said that? Either way, one of the Howard's right, one of the Howard said that, but it's true and he's tapped into that. And if you're talking about Shannon Sharpe, my thought is he goes away. If he goes away and he's successful, wildly successful, they'll bring him back in. Cuz they bring back everybody who's winning wildly successful.
Amin Elhassan
I think when you talk about a likability sports opinion giver, I think automatically of Dan Patrick, right? He's lived so many lives of ESPN anchor, SportsCenter, biggest, you know, show. Then he did his own thing. He's in Adam Sandler movies. Like he's just a very likable guy. And I don't really think a lot of people say I don't really like Dan Patrick. He's just a normal guy.
Stugotz
It's an excellent one. And I will tell you a story I've told before around here. I'm going to say it was 15 years ago. I'm walking through the bowels of the Heats arena and Dan Patrick is standing there. Can you guys look for me? How long Dan Patrick has been doing his show? Because I make fun of Dan Patrick about this. I'm walking through the arena and he says, I can't do what you do.
Chris Cody
Says that to you?
Stugotz
Yes. And I look. But it was before he was doing radio, right? It was just three hours of just giving opinions on things. And he's someone who's very careful, he's not cruel. When he criticizes somebody, it's usually fair. Like this is part of it. When it's when I say the two things can't almost can't coexist, likability and strong, strong opinion giving. Dan doesn't give a ton of strong opinions, but when he does, like strong critical opinions. But when he does, they land with more resonance than others because he's picking his spots and not always doing that. It's not a daily conceit. And his audience, the audience that he has a very unique and special connection with, actually connects with him there. This is a person that I like because he's not out here pretending or behaving as if he's a know it all and, and he knows better and more than anyone in sports. But that attitude does pay like Dan Patrick's an outlier. It's much easier to do what it is that I'm doing or whatever it is. And I say all of this because I was legitimately confused. I'm not saying it's because I'm better at anything than Dan Patrick other than being more strongly opinionated in ways that would bother people than Dan Patrick is.
Chris Cody
I would say two things. Number one, Dan Patrick show started October 2007. So they're coming up on their 20th year anniversary soon too. Number two, I don't know, Dan sometimes comes across as a know it all. DP comes across as like a little bit like, look, you guys don't understand this. I understand this and look, I don't mind it, but I can definitely sense the vibes. It's definitely not like a Tim Kirkchen or a Scott Van Pelt kind of curiosity of like, I don't explain it.
Jeremy
To you, Ernie Johnson or Ernie.
Amin Elhassan
But those guys are all different. Those are guys, guys that Ernie Johnson's the point guard for having other people feed opinions. Kirkjin's a factual reporter kind of guy. Svp, another guy that's kind of a point guard giving, you know, oh, this guy from, from the game is going to talk about this or whatever. When you're talking about sports opinion givers, you kind of have to be a know it all because you're talking for five hours a day.
Chris Cody
Rich Eisen does Rich Eisenhower. Oh no, no, not likable.
Jeremy
He's just, I just don't. I'm not saying he comes off as like a jerk, but I don't think of like oh, so likable. He's somewhere in the middle. It's really tough to give opinions and remain likable. Like that's kind of the whole thing. Everyone that we're going to talk about in sports media who is likable, it's through spots where they're just giving you little bits of information or they're hosting and setting up other people.
Stugotz
As we talk about Pablo though, and the point that we were making about the liberal elites, these used to be known as blue check marks, right? And there is a recoil when you and you get the applause of a media entity when I'm sitting here telling you Amin people don't like journalism and they don't like journalists. And so all of that makes it a difficult thing to overcome if you don't have any respect for journalism. And on top of that, journalism has been so distorted that what, Stephen A. Smith or Emmanuel Acho or whoever it is, or Colin Cowherd, whoever it is, that's in the audience acquisition business business. You see the compromises that end up getting made in search of that audience. And as the competition grows stronger, that's only going to get worse and worse. Like, you have to keep up the, the. I don't know why it is that Chris Cody has a disdain or finds rich eyes in something he's not.
Jeremy
He's like, I put him in the Dan Patrick. Like, I don't, like, I don't see Dan Patrick in the Tim Kirchen category. I like Dan Patrick, but I, these guys are in the middle. Like, I don't see Eisen and Patrick as these like super likable. No one ever disagree.
Stugotz
Like, oh, it's not, it's, there's not, I mean, like abilities. Not a consensus.
Jeremy
Huge breaking news regarding Tony Romas. We have found out that not only did the last Tony Romas in Miami close in March of 2020 due to Covid, but Tony Roma's not just a place for ribs anymore. They've expanded their menu to focus on a variety for all.
Stugotz
I will never forg you, Covid.
Dan LeBatard
Jeremy, you know something about me, right? You know when I'm grilling outside and it's summertime? You know how I supplement my summertime?
Jeremy
Of course I do.
Dan LeBatard
I make it Miller time.
Jeremy
Of course.
Dan LeBatard
That beautiful white can. Oh, when it's so hot outside, I just, I just put it right to my forehead right there and I just roll it sometimes right on the forehead, cool my body down and then I crack it open. Instant relief. And then that first sip, brother, does that first hit.
Jeremy
That is a top five sequence of events that you can possibly go through.
Dan LeBatard
I'm just serenity now when I just imagine that first sip of Miller Light.
Jeremy
Just thinking about it, it's making me happy.
Dan LeBatard
Dude, the sun is out. It's nice. You have your friends showing up. You got your family there. You just had your first sip of Miller Light. And you know what? You're happy, you're blissful, you're fulfilled. I've been stocking my cooler with Miller Lite four years and for good reason. It's brewed for taste only. 96 calories and 3.2 grams of, of carbs. This year, Miller Lite turns 50. That is five decades of cookouts, laughs, and ice cold moments that never miss. It's the original light beer, and it's still my go to Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Cheers to 50 years of Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.
Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: Whomst Is This Guy?
Episode Details:
1. Introduction to the Episode
The episode begins with the hosts engaging in their signature comedic banter and brief ad reads, setting a lively and informal tone for the discussion ahead. They transition smoothly into the main topics, focusing primarily on the NBA draft, media coverage, and the dynamics of sports journalism.
2. NBA Draft and the Brooklyn Nets' Strategy
The primary focus of the episode revolves around the Brooklyn Nets' unconventional draft strategy in Brooklyn, where they predominantly selected guards. This approach has sparked considerable debate among fans and analysts alike.
Critique of Drafting Guards:
Amin Elhassan initiates the discussion by referencing Brian Windhorst's report on Nets executives and agents mocking the team's first-round picks, emphasizing their guard-heavy selections. He questions the rationale behind prioritizing guards when, according to some experts like Dugatz, NFL teams should consistently draft quarterbacks.
Amin Elhassan (04:27):
"They got nine guards and a big who plays like a guard. And it's like what are we doing?"
Accountability and Media Reaction:
Stugotz expresses frustration with the media frenzy surrounding the draft picks, highlighting the lack of accountability within the industry. He points out that the Nets and Pelicans may prove the critics wrong over time, defying the immediate negative projections.
Stugotz (02:35):
"It's one of the reasons that this thing is such a wonderful feeding frenzy for the media. It's got no accountability in it."
Unplanned Draft Strategies:
Chris Cody counters by suggesting that the Nets' strategy might be experimental, acknowledging that not all drafted players may join the team. He introduces Danny Wolfe from Michigan as a positive example, indicating that the Nets might be testing the waters to see which players fit best.
Chris Cody (02:35):
"They also got Danny Wolfe from Michigan, who I really like. I think they've got room to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks."
3. International Players in the NBA Draft
The conversation shifts to the increasing presence of international players, particularly from Canada and France, in the NBA draft. The hosts express concerns about the potential dominance of these players and the implications for the league.
Concerns About Overrepresentation:
Amin Elhassan raises the issue of too many French players being drafted, questioning the strategic choices behind these selections.
Amin Elhassan (05:34):
"Too many French guys in the NBA draft the last couple years. What are we doing?"
Challenges Faced by International Players:
The hosts discuss the logistical and cultural challenges that American players face when drafted to Canadian teams, such as high taxes, unfamiliarity with the metric system, and the complexities of international travel for family visits.
Chris Cody (18:10):
"They're higher than even New York or California. Number two, the number of logistics coming in and out of the country."
Impact on Team Dynamics:
Stugotz speculates on the emotional and psychological stress these international players might experience, potentially affecting their performance and integration into their new teams.
Stugotz (19:44):
"It could just be because the last few hours have been a little stressful."
4. Media Figures and Sports Journalism
A significant portion of the episode delves into the realm of sports journalism, focusing on the reputations and reporting styles of media personalities like Pablo Torre and Doug Gottlieb.
Pablo Torre's Reporting:
The hosts critically analyze Pablo Torre's investigative reporting, particularly his exposes on NFL executives and agents. They commend his thoroughness but also discuss the backlash he faces from segments of the audience who may perceive his reporting as exhausting or elitist.
Stugotz (25:27):
"Everyone here sides with Doug Gottlieb over Pablo Torre. Is that something that just happened?"
Dan LeBatard (32:03):
"What Pablo Torre is doing is extraordinarily difficult. He's at a trough where all news gatherers are and he's consistently finding things, reporting them, vetting them..."
Doug Gottlieb vs. Pablo Torre:
The conversation contrasts Doug Gottlieb's more opinionated style with Pablo Torre's investigative approach. While Gottlieb is acknowledged for his ability to garner ratings through strong opinions, Torre is praised for his dedication to uncovering truths, despite receiving criticism for his methods.
Chris Cody (28:05):
"What Pablo does... he's finding out things that other people aren't finding out. It's a valuable service and I don't believe it's the message that people are objecting to."
Challenges of Maintaining Journalistic Integrity:
Stugotz laments the current state of sports journalism, where likability often trumps factual reporting. He emphasizes the importance of integrity and accountability in journalism, warning against the allure of sensationalism for higher ratings.
Stugotz (28:05):
"But he's also getting some blowback. And I think it's because it's Pablo Torre. I think if it was somebody else reporting this, it wouldn't be received the same way."
5. Balancing Likability and Opinion in Sports Media
The hosts explore the delicate balance between being a likable media personality and maintaining strong, sometimes controversial, opinions. They discuss how figures like Dan Patrick manage to stay relatable while offering insightful commentary.
Dan Patrick as a Benchmark:
Amin Elhassan highlights Dan Patrick's successful blend of likability and sports reporting, noting that Patrick avoids the pitfalls of appearing as a "know-it-all" while still providing valuable content.
Amin Elhassan (37:23):
"When you talk about likability sports opinion giver, I think automatically of Dan Patrick, right? He's lived so many lives of ESPN anchor, SportsCenter, biggest, you know, show."
Challenges for Opinionated Hosts:
Stugotz reflects on his own struggles with maintaining likability while expressing strong opinions, contrasting his approach with more neutral figures like Tim Kirkhin.
Stugotz (32:06):
"I have a disdain or finds rich eyes in something he's not."
Chris Cody (33:44):
"Stephen A. Smith's judgment of people has gotten more performative and more wrestling than it's ever been. At least in part because it's obviously rewarded."
Impact of Strong Opinions on Audience Engagement:
The discussion underscores how strong opinions can both attract and alienate listeners, depending on the delivery and the existing biases of the audience.
Chris Cody (36:34):
"If you're talking about Shannon Sharpe, my thought is he goes away. If he goes away and he's successful, they'll bring him back in."
6. Anecdotes and Humorous Interludes
Throughout the episode, the hosts intersperse their discussions with humorous anecdotes and light-hearted banter, enhancing the overall engaging atmosphere.
Malika Andrews' Mispronunciation:
Stugotz shares a humorous moment where Malika Andrews mispronounces "Cedric Coward" as "Colin Cowherd," leading to playful teasing among the hosts.
Stugotz (14:02):
"Let’s play Malika Andrews making a mistake that I could very easily make... Colin Coward comes out of nowhere."
Imagined Scenarios:
The hosts engage in playful hypotheticals, such as imagining a makeover for Pablo Torre to make him more relatable, blending humor with their critique of media figures.
Chris Cody (29:52):
"Pablo Torre makeover right now. He's detached, he's unrelatable to the common man."
Emotional Reactions and Relatability:
Stugotz and Jeremy discuss the concept of "ugly crying," adding a personal and relatable touch to the conversation.
Stugotz (12:19):
"He looks like he ate a lemon while cutting onions at the same time."
7. Conclusion and Final Thoughts
As the episode winds down, the hosts reiterate their appreciation for in-depth journalism and express concern over the diminishing respect for journalistic integrity in sports media. They advocate for valuing thorough and honest reporting over sensationalism and fleeting popularity.
Advocacy for Quality Journalism:
Stugotz emphasizes the importance of genuine reporting and the challenges journalists like Pablo Torre face in maintaining credibility amidst widespread skepticism.
Stugotz (30:25):
"The work ought to be able to speak for itself. And what I'm telling you is if the NFLPA and the NFL doesn't want you to see it... it's a valuable service and I don't believe it's the message that people are objecting to."
Encouragement for Listener Engagement:
The hosts encourage listeners to support quality journalism and remain informed about the complexities of sports management and reporting.
Notable Quotes:
Stugotz (02:35):
"It's got no accountability in it."
Amin Elhassan (05:34):
"Too many French guys in the NBA draft the last couple years. What are we doing?"
Stugotz (25:27):
"Everyone here sides with Doug Gottlieb over Pablo Torre. Is that something that just happened?"
Amin Elhassan (37:23):
"He's just a very likable guy. I don't really think a lot of people say I don't really like Dan Patrick."
Stugotz (30:25):
"The work ought to be able to speak for itself."
Conclusion
"The Big Suey: Whomst Is This Guy?" offers a deep dive into the intricacies of the NBA draft, the strategic missteps of teams like the Brooklyn Nets, and the evolving landscape of sports journalism. Through engaging discussions, insightful critiques, and moments of levity, the hosts provide listeners with a comprehensive analysis of current sports dynamics, urging a reevaluation of both team strategies and media practices in the sports world.