The Big Suey: Would You Attend Their Funeral? (feat. David Samson)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Suey: Would You Attend Their Funeral? (feat. David Samson)
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Release Date: January 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz are joined by guest David Samson to delve into the intricacies of managing underperforming sports teams, the dynamics of player empowerment, and the evolving landscape of sports media. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, expert insights, and humorous banter, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and nuances in the sports industry.

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Segment 1: Analyzing the Washington Wizards' Performance

[02:02 - 10:15]

The episode kicks off with a critical analysis of the Washington Wizards' recent performances. David Samson articulates that the Wizards' shortcomings aren't solely due to a lack of talent but stem from a series of avoidable mistakes and poor team dynamics.

Notable Quotes:

• David Samson [03:25]: "A lot of times when we see a bad team, we're like, oh, because they don't have any talent. Oh, they stink. Or whatever. But a lot of times it's not the talent gap that's responsible... It's making sloppy, silly mistakes."
• Dan Le Batard [09:06]: "You can have good players that have bad results. You can have bad players that have good results. What makes a bad team is when you have a combination of bad players who don't in any way get a greater sum than just the parts."

Key Points:

• Mistakes Over Talent Gap: The Wizards' issues are attributed to repeated errors such as bad passes, poor shot choices, and lax defense rather than a simple deficiency in player skill.
• Team Culture: Samson emphasizes the contagious nature of a poor work ethic, where a lack of accountability and mutual responsibility leads to overall team dysfunction.
• Leadership Role: Effective culture setters and leaders are crucial in maintaining team cohesion and accountability.

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Segment 2: The Impact of Player Composition on Team Performance

[10:15 - 19:10]

Dan Le Batard and Stugotz delve deeper into how player composition affects team outcomes, using examples from their fictional experiences managing teams with players like Tom Kohler and Jacob Turner.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Le Batard [10:15]: "Tom Kohler was eight years away from making $18 million a year for what he provided... We loved having him in the rotation."
• Stugotz [11:04]: "The Braves also enjoyed him being in Euro 5 and 10 with a 441 ERA in 2013 when the Marlins won 62 total games."

Key Points:

• Evaluating Player Contributions: Even players with statistically poor performances can provide strategic benefits, such as rest for the bullpen or creating opportunities for other players.
• Team Strategy vs. Individual Performance: Balancing individual player performances with overall team strategy is essential for long-term success.
• Historical Anecdotes: References to past team decisions illustrate the long-term impacts of player management choices.

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Segment 3: Navigating Team Management Challenges

[19:10 - 28:28]

The discussion transitions to the complexities of team management, highlighting challenges related to player negotiations, maintaining team morale, and leveraging leadership to foster a winning environment.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Le Batard [25:27]: "If we're talking about his salary, if we're talking about negotiating... or something going on with team rules that he wasn't happy with."
• Billy Gil [27:02]: "He's got all of these giant entities saying, we want just you."

Key Points:

• Player Empowerment and Autonomy: Players like Logan Morrison assert control over their personal brands and media presence, challenging traditional front-office management practices.
• Negotiation Dynamics: Le Batard shares experiences negotiating with players who demand autonomy, emphasizing the importance of balancing team needs with individual player aspirations.
• Ego and Responsibility: The conversation touches on how personal ego and responsibility levels can influence team dynamics and performance.

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Segment 4: Player Empowerment and Social Media Influence

[28:28 - 38:46]

In this segment, the focus shifts to the rise of player empowerment through social media and its implications for team management and sports media.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Le Batard [22:08]: "Logan Morrison was one of the first athletes to be popular on Twitter... He was communicating with people who he thought would increase his brand."
• David Samson [32:19]: "There's an entire industry that's not related to talent."

Key Points:

• Autonomy in Media: Players now have platforms to control their narratives, reducing the front office's influence over their public personas.
• Monetization of Personal Brands: Empowered players leverage social media to build their brands, attracting sponsorships and creating additional revenue streams.
• Impact on Team Cohesion: The shift towards individual brand building can affect team unity and the collective focus on performance.

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Segment 5: Reflections on Media and Personal Relationships in Sports

[38:46 - 44:21]

The episode concludes with a reflective discussion on personal relationships within the sports industry, the role of media portrayals, and an analysis of the film A Different Man starring Sebastian Stan.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Le Batard [31:03]: "Sebastian Stan goes from deformed to not deformed and realizes that life may be better deformed. And that is an amazing sort of concept."
• Dan Le Batard [30:03]: "I'm a big fan of honoring people more when they're alive and what you do for people when they're alive versus what you do."

Key Points:

• Humanizing Athletes: Emphasizes the importance of understanding athletes beyond their on-field performances, recognizing their personal struggles and triumphs.
• Media Representation: Analyzes how media portrayals, such as in A Different Man, can influence public perceptions of athletes with physical disabilities.
• Personal Anecdotes: Hosts share personal stories that highlight the interpersonal dynamics and emotional aspects of managing and interacting with sports figures.

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Conclusion

This episode provides a multifaceted exploration of the challenges in managing sports teams, the evolving role of player autonomy through social media, and the personal dynamics that influence both team performance and media representation. David Samson's insights, combined with the hosts' experiences and reflections, offer listeners a nuanced perspective on the intersection of sports management, media, and personal relationships within the industry.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• David Samson [03:25]: "A lot of times when we see a bad team, we're like, oh, because they don't have any talent. Oh, they stink. Or whatever. But a lot of times it's not the talent gap that's responsible... It's making sloppy, silly mistakes."
• Dan Le Batard [09:06]: "You can have good players that have bad results. You can have bad players that have good results. What makes a bad team is when you have a combination of bad players who don't in any way get a greater sum than just the parts."
• Dan Le Batard [22:08]: "Logan Morrison was one of the first athletes to be popular on Twitter... He was communicating with people who he thought would increase his brand."
• David Samson [32:19]: "There's an entire industry that's not related to talent."

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Note: Advertisements, non-content sections, and casual banter unrelated to the main topics have been omitted to maintain a focused and informative summary.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[Stugotz]

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[Chris Cody]

You know that sound? It's the sound of money hitting your Venmo account. A friend paying you back. Or maybe it's getting cash back from your favorite business when you pay with the Venmo debit card. Or it's realizing you can pay with Venmo at checkout at thousands of brands. Now there are so many more ways to answer the question. What's your Venmo Download Venmo Today the the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated. DOSH cashback terms apply.

[Amin Elhassan]

Welcome to the Big Sui presented by DraftKings.

[Billy Gil]

Why are you listening to this show?

[Amin Elhassan]

The podcast that seems very similar to.

[Dan LeBatard]

The other Dan LeBatard podcast?

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging.

[Billy Gil]

I have been tempted in restaurants just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

[Amin Elhassan]

I've done it.

[David Sampson]

And now here's the marching man to.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nowhere Fat face and The Habitual Liar.

[Stugotz]

This episode of the Dan Lepatard show with Stugots is presented by Venmo.

[Billy Gil]

Gonna bring in David Sampson here, but I feel bad for Amin because he just endured something that I would not wish upon others. And I. I do think sometimes that we lose, like, perspective on certain things. For example, Maxey. Tyrese Maxey is taller than AJ Brown. He's taller than AJ Brown. He goes in, daps him up yesterday, and I'm like, oh, I didn't know that he was taller. But, of course, you're always getting fooled by the height of these people and how different some of these things are than you think they are. Amin went and saw the Wizards last week, and it is jarring. You don't get used to how good basketball is until you see it played that poorly. Like to realize that your perspective has changed. You might complain about what basketball is today, but the team are so good that the Wizards exist, and they're not a professional basketball team.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, like the. It's.

[Billy Gil]

It.

[David Sampson]

It is. First of all, I've described the way the Wizards, and particularly Jordan Poole, the way they play, is offensive. It offends me as a basketball person to watch them, but watching them last week against the Lakers, I realized a lot of stuff. I realized that the Wizards aren't bad because they don't have talent. And I think a lot of times. Was that me?

[Billy Gil]

Yeah, that's a fine.

[David Sampson]

That's a fine Venmo.

[Billy Gil]

That's a Venmo.

[David Sampson]

Anya's not a band. Well, hold on now. Let's not mix.

[Billy Gil]

I gotta get to David Sampson. So make your point, please.

[David Sampson]

Well, I didn't know I was gonna make the point quickly, but basically the idea is that they didn't. They don't lose games because they're not talented. A lot of times when we see a bad team, we're like, oh, because they don't have any talent. Oh, they stink. Or whatever. But a lot of times it's not the talent gap that's responsible for the. The misfortune. What's responsible is making sloppy, silly mistakes that they just not paying attention. So it's a bad pass, it's a dumb shot. It's falling asleep on defense. It's all these things that aren't. Oh, my God. LeBron and Anthony Davis are just better than.

[Billy Gil]

They're terrible at basketball.

[David Sampson]

Yes, but almost, like, as a choice. Because I don't think they're bad basketball players. I just think there is a collective. Don't give an F about the Way we do this and what also happens with bad teams is it is contagious. Meaning why should I give an F? He doesn't give an F. And so no one feels a responsibility. That's why we talk about culture and culture setters and all that. They're so important is because those are the guys that make it happen and keep everybody accountable, keep everybody knowing that we're pulling in the same direction. Dan wanted to start with this topic. Dave, I want to talk about a different man, which is what I texted you about. But Dan was like, let me ask you about this. So I'm like, all right, I guess I got to do my thesis.

[Billy Gil]

It's my fault, pretty much that you just did that, that David Sampson was kept waiting that long.

[Stugotz]

Now were the wizards so you could.

[Billy Gil]

Tell us that bad teams are bad. Okay.

[Stugotz]

No, it's your fault.

[David Sampson]

That was the topic you picked to start. You didn't say, hey, David, what you got for us? You said, hey, Amin, let's talk about bad teams. I'm like, okay. I mean, David's waiting. But I, you know, who am I? I'm a just good soldier. I follow the captain's orders.

[Billy Gil]

You think that was good soldier? You think this is good soldier? What kind of army do I have?

[Dan LeBatard]

The worst.

[Billy Gil]

Oh, my God. Right? He. Look at him like the soldier who gets me killed in battle. It's like, aren't I a good soldier? I'm sorry.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're the one who gets killed, like, right as it starts, like, right as the.

[Billy Gil]

It's my fault that I threw the ball to him, and he's like, I didn't know you were going to ask me to dribble for this long.

[David Sampson]

No, no, it's your fault that you called the play. Like, we're going to post up a meme, but David's in the game. No, no, no. It's an Amin post up. So me posts up, and he backs up and he goes up and under and he gets fouled, and he goes to the free throw line. And David's like, I haven't touched the ball for 13 seconds. Well, David, I'm sorry. The play was called for me. You don't like it?

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm just upset. I mean, that not only did you not get to the free throw line, but basically you backed up and then you traveled and then threw up a brick.

[Stugotz]

And then you said the coach called a bad play. That was a bad play by the coach.

[David Sampson]

It wasn't a brick.

[Stugotz]

And I turned into.

[Billy Gil]

You also rattled him, Sampson, because he could see your face and the disgust. And you actually tapped on your watch, which is an incredible. The watch. An incredible move. To tap on your watch is like, man, Amin's really hogging all my time here.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, I just thought he was hogging the audience. This time. I wasn't as concerned about me. I was just very concerned about the wizard situation.

[Billy Gil]

He tells me right before the microphones come on, I went to a Wizards game last night or last week.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's still your responsibility.

[David Sampson]

That's still your responsibility to say, all right, that's cool. I'm going to go in a different direction.

[Billy Gil]

I thought you wanted. Okay, this is all right. I mean, this is what happens on bad teams right here, where it's like he shoots himself in the face and then he blames me.

[David Sampson]

Hold on. I didn't shoot myself in the face. My point was really good.

[Billy Gil]

That bad teams are bad.

[David Sampson]

No, not why they're bad. Why are they bad? Oh, because our quarterback sucks? No, because every little part of it. Nobody cares. Nobody pulls together.

[Billy Gil]

Now the head coach is blaming the players.

[Dan LeBatard]

See, that's doubling down.

[Billy Gil]

Sampson, your thoughts, though, on bad teams? Like, what makes them bad? Because what I'm saying about the Wizards, there are any number of bad teams in the NBA.

[Stugotz]

We brought in our expert on bad teams.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you, Chris.

[Billy Gil]

For real expertise on what it is to run a bad team. David Sampson of Nothing Personal gives us. It's the perfect place to start. What was it it like to be the Wizards those years that it felt like you were the Wizards?

[Dan LeBatard]

I can tell you that when you put together a bad team, you know, you're putting them together as you're doing it. And you get to spring training and you pretend that, hey, screw them. Screw all the people who know what they're saying. We can do it together. And the players are looking at each other in the front offices, all looking at each other and saying, we're going to lose a hundo. We just don't have enough. And a bad team is when you don't have enough good players. It's not about the players. Not. I mean. I mean, what you were saying is funny to me, because you should know this. You can have good players that have bad results. You can have bad players that have good results. What makes a bad team is when you have a combination of bad players who don't in any way get a greater sum than just the parts. And that's what I specialized in, is putting players together whose sum was less than the parts.

[David Sampson]

I would say that more often Than not when you. At least in basketball. I can't speak for baseball, but when, when I watch a basketball game between a good team and a bad team, I don't see. Not that it doesn't happen. There are some nights you did everything right. Guess what? They're just better. But so many possessions, so many games. It's. That's not what's happening. What's happening is you did something dumb and they got a free easy layup over here. You did something dumb and they got another possession, you did something dumb and you fell asleep and they got a layup over there and it's. That's it. That's all it is. And the part where, oh, LeBron and Anthony Davis are way better than Kyle Kuzma and Jordan Poole never even gets a chance to prove itself because you're doing everything wrong that's making the game so incredibly easy for them.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, I think the existence of when you've got pool and Kyle as your 1 and 2, you know going into every game that your 1 and 2 is worse than every other 1 and 2. And that's what causes you to try too hard or to take the extra base when it's not there, or to try to throw ahead of the runner instead of to the where you're supposed to throw it to and stop a runner from getting a scoring position. You do these things because you're pressing, because you know you have a talent gap.

[Stugotz]

Is that how you felt when you had Tom Kohler as your number two?

[Dan LeBatard]

Tom Kohler was really a bulldog. If you look back at him. Actually, I don't want to innings either.

[Billy Gil]

He'll give you a 5 ERA. You'll keep throwing him out there. He won't get hurt and he'll give you. He'll just give up five runs in six innings and that's. You'll lose all those games.

[Dan LeBatard]

Tom Kohler was eight years away from making $18 million a year for what he provided. So you can yuck on Tom Kohler's yum all you want, but we loved having him in the rotation and we loved when we gave him the ball because he was going to give us a chance to win, because he was going to rest our bullpen, which was going to be helpful for games going forward. And the offense knew that if they put up runs, which we would have a hard time doing, that Kohler would be able to do a shutdown inning, which is important. So don't hate on Tom Kohler. The Braves, that's just wrong.

[Stugotz]

The Braves also Enjoyed him being in Euro 5 and 10 with a 441 ERA in 2013 when the Marlins won 62 total games.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, we lost 100 that year, Jeremy.

[Stugotz]

That's right.

[Dan LeBatard]

Everybody had starter him.

[Stugotz]

Jacob Turner, Ricky Nalasco, Nathan of Aldi.

[David Sampson]

He's got a hang.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm far more embarrassed that Mark Hendrickson was an opening day pitcher.

[Stugotz]

There we go. That's a good one.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's the biggest.

[Stugotz]

Now you're embarrassing.

[Dan LeBatard]

In my career.

[Billy Gil]

Yeah, you're playing it better, not surprisingly, than Chris Cody. But you did understand that Chris Cody was just trying to. And succeeded. Say a funny name. Like he was just looking through all of those rosters and trying to find one. And then he conjured a shape when he said that funny name. And all of us thought to ourselves here, who knew who he was talking about? Oh, yeah, that square that David Sampson, like, physical square would throw out there for six innings because David Sampson needed an employee to go out there and throw six innings so they could get to losing their hundred games. Somebody go out there every fifth day, cash this check and earn it, because I need someone to spend five innings out there. That. That's the math you were doing with your business then, was it? Not like you admire this man because he was a good employee.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's a noble pursuit, what you're describing. It's not as easy as you may think to find 9 innings times 162 games to find anyone to pitch. No, but Tom Color wasn't that. He was a huge winner in the minor leagues. When we called him up, he just found a way.

[Billy Gil]

I don't want to do this. I don't want to do.

[David Sampson]

I understand it now. This is why you want to start with that topic, so that David has some expertise.

[Billy Gil]

Hendrickson was the worst. What's the second wor. When you do those lists of things that you guys did when you're like, my God, we're going to be bad?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, it was not great having Chen as our opening day starter because we were trying to salvage him and he was overpaid. But, no, I think that the problem we had when Hendrickson started for us. You remember he was in the NBA. I mean, do you remember him in the NBA sport?

[Billy Gil]

He was like 6, 9.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, he was a very. He was. He may have been our top. I think he was the tallest player I ever had. He was definitely. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Stugotz]

Wasn't Volstead.

[Billy Gil]

I thought. Wasn't Hendrickson like 610. Do I have this wrong summer league guy? I thought he was a basketball player.

[David Sampson]

6, 9, 2, 40.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, I had him as high. Volstead was tall. Sean west was tall. Andrew Miller was tall. He was maybe a 6 foot 7 lefty. So we had a bunch of tall guys. But no, there's no correlation. And the thing is, when Hendrickson's out there, he's so tall, you think it's going to be good. And then he comes out throwing, you know, 88, and you realize, wow, this is not going to work. I remember that opening day and when we were scheduling, you know, your opening day starter the first week of spring training, but you don't tell anyone, so you can make this big PR announcement. And we knew that Hendrickson was going to start opening day, so we didn't want to announce it. We were hoping for an injury of some sort or some sort of some God's work that would make the announcement land better. So I remember we worked with our PR guys saying, all right, when do we want to slip this in, like Jerry Jones introducing Schottenheimer? How can we get it out there that we are absolutely going to lose 100 games? And it didn't work?

[Chris Cody]

John Roush was 611.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, he was a tall guy.

[Billy Gil]

Good call. When we talk tall people, I want to show you guys a picture here when I'm talking about the proportion of these things, because I don't think most people think, listening to this, that Steve Kerr is big. He's tall. Steve Kerr is 6 4. If you think of him as a player, you might not think of him as that tall. But this picture right here, I very infrequently feel small around people. That's Mike Miller, a shooter, and you donis Haslam, an undersized power forward. The. When you say these people are tall, David, you're perpetually feeling like that, are you not?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I'm used to that. So, yes, I'm only 65 inches, so I definitely. There are pictures of me all over when I'm talking to players or talking to Stanton, and it makes you feel even smaller. So I would do a lot of my meetings with players where I would stand on the top step of the dugout when a player was in the dugout trying to change the power dynamic, because I always felt that if they're looking down at me too much in a negotiation or in. When we're talking about what their role is going to be, that they'll get distracted by that power play. So I would try, and to this day, I do that. I try to do as Much sitting down as possible because everyone. When you're sitting down, generally, if you lift your chair up. I do this with Skipper, Dan. When we record with Skipper, I put my chair way up so it looks like my head is on the same level as Skipper. And sometimes he notices it when we're recording a show and he gets pissed off, and he'll say, put your chair down. Or he'll try to raise his chair to get that dynamic back.

[Stugotz]

I will not be below you.

[Billy Gil]

My flat screen is bigger than you.

[Stugotz]

How many months old are you?

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't even understand what that means.

[Billy Gil]

Well, you just said how many inches you were. And so.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, when you're 5 5, you generally say 65 inches.

[Billy Gil]

Do you? You're 5.

[Dan LeBatard]

Does anyone say they're 5 5?

[Billy Gil]

Yeah, I do. And I think I'm taller than you.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm five five.

[Billy Gil]

I don't. I don't mean to shame you here. It's funny that you would take that into consideration when, like, it also seems kind of torturous a thing to have to take into consideration to. How do I figure how to have this conversation with Stanton near the dugout steps so that I could be on the top one?

[Dan LeBatard]

It's just. It's the same thing. You have to worry about hitting your head on a ledge when you're walking through on a. On a small door. I don't have to think about those things. I don't hit my head on rafters. So we each have our cross to bear.

[David Sampson]

I have David racing to the top step like Costanza when he wanted to sit on one side of the couch. Try to get there real fast.

[Dan LeBatard]

Now, when you're the president of a team, you don't have to do that as a person. Member of metal arc. I do have to do that. There's a lot more racing today than there was in my previous life. But, no, I didn't have to race. But there were some photos where it was just patently obvious how small I actually am. But these players, many of them are just big. And in the NBA, it's a totally different story. You talk about Steve Kerr at 6 4. You go to an airport and have Steve Kerr just walk. I was in an airport with Mark Jackson, and he was just walking, and he was a head taller than anybody else in the airport. And he is known as not a big guy in the NBA. So it's a different world. In the NBA, did you ever have.

[David Sampson]

To hit the red button on a team photo taken that showed the height disparity?

[Dan LeBatard]

I Sat down in the front row of our team photos. So I was sitting down, whereas players are standing behind me. The coaches and the front office sits down on chairs in the front. So that was never an issue.

[Stugotz]

Did you make sure a short player stood behind you?

[Dan LeBatard]

No, it didn't matter. Actually. Players were assigned spots in the team photo and we would do things where if a player didn't show up for a team photo, we'd have a stand in and we would just then plant the face on the body of the stand in to make it as though the player was there for the team photo. And that's actually a funny story. If you take the team photo too late in September, you got a bunch of scrubs on the team that you've called up who make your team photo and then are forever in the history of who your team is. So we would try to plan the team photo when we had like our best team around to be in the photo so we could lock in that great team. So silly to look back.

[David Sampson]

When Stanton missed, did he have to get a Stanton standing?

[Dan LeBatard]

No, he never missed. He never missed. He was at every team photo and he was. Stan was great to have as a player. He was Mike and then Giancarlo and he was always around.

[Billy Gil]

Was there anybody who is consistently using their size to feel like they were bullying you, where you're feeling off of them that they're trying to do something here and I don't like it.

[Dan LeBatard]

The best example where someone talked about size in a way that I didn't love, but we were. We were close was Logan Morrison. And Logan would. Would only have. I don't know if you know that name, but he was a Marlin once upon a time.

[Stugotz]

Like the first athlete to be good at Twitter.

[Billy Gil]

Yes. You unretired the late Carl Barger's number to give it to him in a great offense.

[Dan LeBatard]

That was not me.

[Billy Gil]

I have never.

[Dan LeBatard]

Don't even talk about that.

[Stugotz]

Upset at an accusation ever.

[Billy Gil]

It wasn't him. That's my fault. But that happened around it.

[Dan LeBatard]

It happened when I was team president and that was one of those things that our owner did that I couldn't. Logan wanted that number. That was his number. And Logan had just lost a parent, I believe his dad. And we had flown to the funeral and we were trying to be nice. And Logan said, by the way, I wouldn't mind being five as we were entering the new ballpark. And so the decision was made by the owner. All right, we're going to put Barger in a plaque and Put five up because he wasn't a player, and that's just wrong. And I said it, and I got overruled. I asked Logan to change his mind, and he wouldn't. Logan was the guy who only liked to talk to me standing up on a level. On a level ground. And so he always had that sort of height over me racing to the ledge. And he's a big guy, and, you know, we showed him.

[Billy Gil]

But what was he trying to bully you with, though? Like, when were you. When was it so tense that you would feel some of what it is you're talking about?

[Dan LeBatard]

If we're talking about his salary, if we're talking about negotiating sort of where we see him on the team, where we don't see him as he's approaching making money, if there's something going on with team rules that he wasn't happy with. When I was talking to him about Twitter back in the day, and I was very public on your show, Dan, I would talk about our current player who is using Twitter, and we told him, stop using it because no one cares if you tweet from the minor leagues. And he told me that I'm wrong. Twitter is going to be the thing, the vessel for players to get their point of view out because you don't do it as a front office. And I just. I was dead wrong. And turns out that Logan was totally right, but he did it in a very physically daunting, scary way.

[Billy Gil]

Take us through some of that here, because you're at the precipice, really, of where it is. Some of this is broken down. I want to talk about Nil with you and Amin in a second, but the player having his own agency or her own agency and being able to tell their own story. Logan Morrison was one of the first athletes to be popular on Twitter. Your feeling as an executive was to create the Showtime series about the franchise, about your team, because you wanted a kind of an attention, but you wanted an attention that was specific to your controlling it. Logan was saying, no, I get to control it. And you started that tense fight.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah. So that is a great. The player empowerment that we talk about in the NBA. I can say a lot of it started with Logan Morrison, where he basically said that he doesn't want me speaking for him. He doesn't need to be PR or to be media trained because he was communicating with people who he thought would increase his brand and give him an opportunity to make more money through sponsorship, through relationships, whatever the case may be. And I explained that no one cares about you, actually. They only care that you are a professional baseball player. So please try to focus on playing better. And he told me, you're missing the point. There's an entire industry here that is not really related to talent or to performance.

[David Sampson]

Did he use those words?

[Dan LeBatard]

Which words?

[David Sampson]

There's an entire industry that's not related to talent.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, that was the concept of what we talked about.

[David Sampson]

That's amazing.

[Dan LeBatard]

He really understood where this was going way before I did. It reminded me of me not believing that people would ever read a newspaper on the. On the Internet Internet on their computer. I assume no one would ever do that. They'd want to hold the paper. I've just never been able to truly see into the future in that way, in terms of technology or personally. But the fact is that I've spoken to Logan since and we're still in touch and we still talk about the fact that he was the start of this amazing thing where players. You described it as taking agency. He would describe it as, I want to control all the news around me and how I look and how I sound. And I'm going to monetize that.

[David Sampson]

It's kind of like Kevin Love with all his Instagram posts right now. Right?

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[Billy Gil]

Don LeBatard. There is no question, Dan Lebatard show included. Anybody else, that this guy is the best player on the planet. Whether he wins the Stanley cup or the Cod smite this year, there is no question about it. Stugats.

[David Sampson]

What'S going on? Dan Levitard, how you doing?

[Billy Gil]

Altered World. Oh, my goodness.

[Chris Cody]

So this is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Billy Gil]

You know what? I'm gonna have to stop everybody right here because he mentioned Lomo's dad's funeral. And that opens the door to America's fastest growing game. Would you attend their funeral?

[David Sampson]

That's your segue.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'll just say this about Logan's dad's funeral. Were he not a player currently on the team who he needed to perform better, I would not have gone to that.

[Stugotz]

Probably didn't have to say that part.

[Billy Gil]

Would you. Would you attend the funeral of Tommy Hutton?

[Dan LeBatard]

No.

[Billy Gil]

Oh, no. Oh no. How many years?

[Dan LeBatard]

I like Tommy just fine. He wanted too much money, which is why he lost his job with Fox at the time. But no, I, I like him fine. Had plenty of contact with him, but not funeral worthy.

[Billy Gil]

Oh, no. He's back on the broadcast. He's. He. How many years was he a broadcaster for you?

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, many. Practically my whole time.

[Billy Gil]

Oh, no. Dave Van Horn.

[Dan LeBatard]

If I'm in Florida doing your show and it's after 1pm and I can get a ride so I don't have to drive, I would go, I'm up, up and away.

[Billy Gil]

Really? Fake Dave Van Horn from heaven. Is that right?

[Stugotz]

Doing his own call?

[David Sampson]

Really? That.

[Billy Gil]

I didn't have you doing that. So that was Dave Van Horn. He was just ascending to heaven and that was his voice fading away as he left for the press box in the sky.

[Stugotz]

I'm up. Up.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's not your best one, Chris.

[Billy Gil]

Joe Girardi.

[Dan LeBatard]

Absolutely not.

[Billy Gil]

Josh Beckett.

[Dan LeBatard]

I. Yes, I probably would. Josh Beckett's a funny one. He's loving retirement. He's. He's fishing. He's got a bunch of kids now. He's living his life. And, and we talk every October 25th. So we talk once a year on the anniversary of his game six performance. And I, I. You can't call that someone, that person, a friend. But obviously we have a connection. And we, we haven't talked about his funeral, though we both suspect that it's coming soon for both of us. But I think I would have to.

[Stugotz]

What's that, what's that yearly text look like? Like, hey, still love you, big game. Josh. Like what?

[Dan LeBatard]

It's, it's a, it's a check in text. And then sometimes it segues into a phone call where we'll catch up. But it's just sort of acknowledgment that we shared something and we market on that anniversary. And to him it was. No matter what he did with The Red Sox, 10-25-03 was the number one moment of a career for both of us. And so it's fun to talk to him about it.

[David Sampson]

We're not just going to steamroll past this. Did you say you and Josh Beckett acknowledge that you're both not going to live that much longer?

[Dan LeBatard]

We do talk about that quite a bit, actually.

[David Sampson]

What's happening? What's happening?

[Chris Cody]

When are you dying?

[Dan LeBatard]

It's based on. It's based on age. It's based on stress. It's based on. Just because you're rich and retired at a young age doesn't mean you don't have stress and anxiety. And it doesn't matter if you go fishing all the time, it still can impact you. And both of us have this weird sort of view that it could be the eighth inning and we're going to take the ball for the ninth. But I. I've always lived my life that way. I've always assumed that, you know, a week from Tuesday will be it for me.

[Billy Gil]

I can't tell you guys how much I love talking about death to this music. Put it on the poll here, Guillermo, please. Was Logan Morrison responsible for all player empowerment in the NBA? Would you attend the funeral? And I know what he's doing there because this one's super interesting to me. When he thinks about it, on Josh Beckett, it's not even his relationship with Josh Beckett. It's. Man, it would be really fun to catch up with those people at that funeral, to remember that the best time of our lives. Like, it's. I could go through that roster and probably get 10 guys that. He'll go to those funerals.

[Chris Cody]

At Josh's funeral, he'll be there, but he's not gonna be very chatty.

[Billy Gil]

Well, but the others, the teammates who will be there. Thank you, Billy. I do appreciate that. Josh Beckett would not be speaking chattily.

[Stugotz]

From the coffin because he's up, up and away.

[Billy Gil]

Lenny Harris.

[Dan LeBatard]

No.

[David Sampson]

Wow. Firm.

[Billy Gil]

I'm sorry, Lenny. Ken Rosenthal.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm probably gonna be dead before Ken, so I don't have to make that decision. But if I did, I, I. I probably would say no. Jason Stark. Yes. Ken Rosenthalman.

[Billy Gil]

I was just gonna ask you about Jason Stark, and you took it from me. Bud Selig.

[Dan LeBatard]

That one we've talked about. Yes, I will be going to the commissioner's funeral.

[Billy Gil]

It's a setup, though. Rob Manfred.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Chris Cody]

You go to any of these just to make sure they're not coming back?

[Dan LeBatard]

No, I go to them because I want to honor. So I'm a big fan of honoring people more when they're alive and what you do for people when they're alive versus what you do. I Think going to a funeral is less important than going to a birthday party or. Or being in touch with people when they're alive. But there's some people that I just want to show my respect for. And also, there's a part of this that, oh, I'm sort of important that I can go, or I would go to these funerals. So I do get ego out of it. I can't believe I'm admitting this on the air, but I do think about that. Like, oh, I can go to that funeral, and I won't be an outcast at that funeral because I have a relationship with these people. That's a horrible thing. Can we not. Can you edit that out, actually?

[Billy Gil]

Okay, get. Right. Yes, please end the live portion of our show. Just edit that out. We've gone too far. David, before you get out of here, it's a great game. We need to play it.

[David Sampson]

Yes, it is a great game. We need to play it more often. But before we get him out of here, I do want to ask him about A Different man, which is the Sebastian Stan movie. What'd you think of it?

[Dan LeBatard]

Sebastian Stan was nominated for the Apprentice, and he was really good in the Apprentice, but he was way better in A Different man, which is sort of the updated version of an old movie with Eric Stoltz and Cher called Mask, and it's about a deformed person, and it's played by a real deformed actor. He's really has that issue, and it is unbelievable the way we react to people with physical deformities, and it's horribly sad and incredibly hurtful, and we all do it, and we pretend we don't, but we do. And Sebastian Stan goes from deformed to not deformed and realizes that life may be better deformed. And that is an amazing sort of concept.

[Billy Gil]

Is that the correct word? Because this movie, it did capture my eye because it did look like the Mask, the Cher movie that you're talking about, right? Where the head and face of someone is something that anybody would look at and it doesn't look right. Is deformed the proper way to say that?

[Dan LeBatard]

You're putting me on the spot. So I assume you have the answer to that.

[Billy Gil]

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know the answer. The reason I'm asking the question, though, is because when I was watching that movie, I thought that movie took some real great chances there. And it was an. I thought that movie was interesting in what it is that they were trying to Tackle.

[David Sampson]

I thought it was fascinating because Stan's character starts the movie with NF1, which is the name of the. The condition, and then gets cured of it. And then, like David said, at some point, I don't even know if he realizes life is better, is that he sees someone else with NF1 living the type of life that he could have never imagined for himself when he had that condition. And so it drives him into this kind of insanity.

[Dan LeBatard]

So is that the word? Is it condition? Is that what we're going with?

[Billy Gil]

I don't know. I didn't mean to get stuck there. I just wanted to explain the audience. Because when you said deformity, you didn't make it clear that it was the head, that it was the face.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah. Excuse me. Well, when I said mask, I assume people knew or at least would Google, what that meant. But yes, it is. It is from the neck up. It is a deformity. It is a physical deformity is how I would describe it, but it doesn't change the way the person is. It's like screaming at a blind person thinking that they don't hear properly. It is weird how people interact with people with physical disabilities. I see it with people in wheelchairs, and I do a lot of work with. With people with athletes who are. Have paralysis or loss of limbs. And it is just weird how people interact as though they. They have some sort of mental issue, when in fact, they don't at all. It's just a physical issue. And Sebastian Stan played it so well that, frankly, I mean, I was so happy he was nominated, period, for two great performances this year, but I would have preferred it for Different Man.

[Billy Gil]

David, thank you for being on with us. We appreciate it. The name of the movie is Nothing. I'm sorry, the podcast is Nothing Personal. David, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? What was that? What? What?

[Dan LeBatard]

Just stumbling over a photo that's put up without anyone giving you warning that you're going to see Sebastian Stan and the actor who played the person with the condition, who really has that condition, and you're fumbling, trying to outpour me while this video.

[Billy Gil]

Okay, so, yes, that is what happened. It was the proper thing to laugh at. In Lewis's meager defense, he did say that the photo was jarring, and so he was trying to make an executive decision, and he made a poor one because he startled me and I wasn't able to get you out of here. So thank you, David. I appreciate. I appreciate the time. Nothing personal is the name of the podcast the sporting class. I'm telling you that he does with John Skipper and they fight for who's got the hired chair. It is unlike anything not never mind business. Not just business, sports business, any kind of business. There's not this kind of expertise talking this way about the those things. Thank you David.

[Amin Elhassan]

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[David Sampson]

Don Le.

[Chris Cody]

Cup game and at what? This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Billy Gil]

So I wanted to ask the group because Amin clearly has a feeling about this movie, and I watched it the other night with Valerie and I. Obviously, you love any art that make. I love any art that makes me think a little bit about something that I had not considered. And so when Lewis said, the photo is jarring, it is jarring. The entire movie is wildly transportive. Like, it takes you to a place that you might not have considered at all before. With someone living a. Trying to live a normal life with something that, if all of us were looking at it, we'd be saying, if that happened to me, how is it that I would go through life? Could I be happy? Could I be myself? Could I be somebody that was normal instead of sullen? Because my life. I can change my life's energies just by having a different attitude, no matter how I look.

[David Sampson]

Did you know what the movie was about before you started watching it?

[Billy Gil]

I did not.

[David Sampson]

Me neither. That, I think, made it even better, is just not knowing, where's this going? I thought it was this, like, the Elephant Man. That's what I thought the movie was. And then he gets. You know, I don't want to get too many spoilers, but as that transformation happens for him, like, oh, he really can cure it, I guess. And then realizing, oh, this is not about what he looks like. It's all about the person that was inside all along.

[Billy Gil]

I don't believe that the room has any interest.

[Chris Cody]

I've been thinking. I think Tyreek might regret having left Kansas City.

[Billy Gil]

I want to ask you guys something else about a negotiation that's coming up. I think this one will interest people. Get me the sound, please, for when people don't want me to talk about sports media stuff, because I think this particular one is something that people might be finding interesting in what is about to be the golden age of the streaming services are just gonna fire hose money at certain personalities because of Netflix having one of its greatest periods ever. Now that they've just dipped a toe in sports, do you get annoyed every time Dan Levatard pontificates about the sports media industry?

[David Sampson]

Well, too bad, mother.

[Billy Gil]

He knows. He don't give a damn about what he's gonna say. It is time for Sports Media Talk today. I think Amin's gonna find this one interesting, okay? Because if Tom Brady is worth $375 million to do a job part time over here, and if Stephen A. Smith and Pat McAfee and everybody tries to change, and the Kelsey's try to change the economy of how many millions per year can you make doing this? This? I don't think in my entire lifetime covering sports, I have seen someone have more power from a broadcasting perspective than what Charles Barkley heads into here. Getting to decide whether he wants to work for ESPN because he got traded. And Charles Barkley has all the power over everybody because Amazon and everybody, everybody's going to be bidding on Charles Barclay, not the entirety of the show. So he's in the position where he holds all the cards in a negotiation to work as much or as little as he wants when it's the golden age of we're going to pay tens of millions of dollars for this. Because If Barclays at 20 million a year now, and I understand the stratosphere is ridiculous, but. But he's gonna have all of these giant entities saying, we want just you. You're your own network. It's not even just your show. We want just you. Because having you brings us whatever Tom Brady's bringing you because you've attached this particular name to what you do. And I just can't believe that's so with a man in his 60s. I really can't.

[Chris Cody]

In fairness, his CNN show got canceled in like five minutes. So, like, it's not like he's going places and everything he does is a giant success.

[Billy Gil]

Understood. But when you have everyone bidding for you and sports money is spilling all over the place, at 20 million a year, there is nobody worth more wanted by more people than this person. Like, you can say that, but everyone's going to be in the game trying to say they're the ones who have Charles Barkley.

[Chris Cody]

Yeah, but people make bad media deals, like, all the time. And Charles also pretends he's going to retire every year.

[Billy Gil]

So I ask you guys, do you think that this is a situation where you can find me a negotiation that someone headed into where he had more power, more in sports leverage?

[David Sampson]

I would say that whatever Stephen A. Smith's next deal is that he's gonna have the maximum leverage.

[Billy Gil]

Bigger than Barkley.

[David Sampson]

Bigger than Barkley. Because the network has demonstrated, right? Like with Barkley, at the end of the day, it's a show. Billy's right. Like, yeah, they gave him a CNN show. They look like, the end of the day, we're talking about one show. And Chuck has made it clear. He said, quote, I won't be working like no damn dog. Right? So Chuck is like, we're gonna do it on my time doing what I want to do. So you're kind of like, okay, cool, but understanding it's not gonna spill over in anything else. Whereas Stephen A. You can ask Stephen. Stephen A. Wimbledon's coming up. We don't have anybody. Like, I'll do it. He'll say yes to everything and he'll go and he'll fly over to England and he'll pretend like he knows every single player and have strong opinions and bring attention to it. And that has real currency for any media company. But especially, especially that place where they have zero creativity or idea of like, you know what? I'm going to give a chance to this person here.

[Chris Cody]

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[Stugotz]

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