The Fallout From Pat Riley's Miami Heat State Of The Union | Local Hour

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Fallout From Pat Riley's Miami Heat State Of The Union | Local Hour

Podcast: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Episode Date: April 28, 2026
Main Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz
Key Contributors: Jonathan Zaslow, Mike Ryan, Amin Elhassan, Jeremy, Kenny (and others)
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Episode Overview

The panel dives deep into the Miami Heat’s current situation following Pat Riley’s annual end-of-season press conference, unpacking the Heat’s future, Riley’s leadership, and the shifting balance of power in the NBA’s Eastern Conference. The conversation also weaves in critiques (and some nostalgia) about the Heat’s risk tolerance, the inconsistency of big-swing trades elsewhere in the NBA, and local sports leadership changes—including a controversial front-runner for the University of Miami Athletic Director job.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Changing Narratives & Sports Journalism Hot Takes

• Opening Banter (01:38–02:35): The show pokes fun at the volatility in sports commentary, contrasting Greg Cote’s flip-flop on the Dolphins draft pick with Tony’s quick switch from criticizing to praising the Orlando Magic.
• Quote:

  “Tony going from calling the Orlando Magic a joke clown car of a franchise to four games later saying they're going to be in the Eastern Conference finals?”
  — Dan Le Batard (01:38)

2. Playoff Surprises: Orlando Magic & Detroit Pistons

• The Magic and the Raptors both won despite horrid shooting nights, highlighting the impact of defensive athleticism.
• Orlando’s Jalen Suggs praised for perimeter defense; Pistons (especially Cade Cunningham) criticized for turnovers and lack of execution.
• Stat Highlight:

  “Suggs’ stat line: 1 for 13 from the floor, 1 for 11 from 3, plus 17 for the game.”
  — Amin Elhassan (06:25)

• Quote:

  “You can win a game shooting 32% that way.”
  — Mike Ryan (05:13)

3. Pat Riley’s Press Conference: Wincing at the State of the Heat

• Hosts react to Riley’s annual state of the franchise as less inspiring than ever, hinting at his advancing age (81) and shifting NBA landscape.
• Riley asserts he’s not retiring and pushes back against the myth that he’s had “final say” on basketball decisions.
• The panel acknowledges the five-person management consortium, but sees diminished faith in the Heat’s ability to reinvent, especially with better-positioned teams like the Magic, Pacers, and Raptors passing Miami by.
• Quote:

  “I was just wincing at the state of the franchise, and I was wincing at some of the things said.”
  — Dan Le Batard (07:05)

• Notable:
  The contrast is made between Riley’s well-earned mythos and the fan/media impatience with recent results.
• “Grandpa forgot how to play basketball” analogy for how Riley is being unfairly perceived (25:07).

4. Aggression & Risk in NBA Trades: What the Heat Won't Do

• Discussion on how Heat’s hesitance to “make moves that hurt” has left them behind more aggressive franchises.
• Big trades reviewed: Desmond Bane to Orlando (for four picks), Rudy Gobert to Minnesota, Mikal Bridges to New York—deals seen as questionable in hindsight but at least indicative of teams “trying to win.”
• Disagreement over whether the Heat should have gone all-in for a star at the deadline.
• Quote:

  “To make a big trade in the NBA…for Bain, it took a lot of draft picks…these trades hurt everybody…The Miami Heat flatly don’t do those trades.”
  — Kenny (11:31)

• Riley’s Consistency Critiqued:

  “What do you mean you were going for it this year? Why didn’t you trade for KD then?”
  — Dan Le Batard (22:34)

5. Pat Riley vs. The Media: The Bam Adebayo Exchange

• Riley’s “no circumstance” answer on trading Bam, and insistence Bam is better than players like Sabonis, Siakam, and Trae Young.
• Riley jokes it would take “eight picks and Mumbai” to trade Bam (21:39).
• The panel agrees with Bam’s value but highlights Heat’s “double speak” in claiming to be contenders yet refusing bold moves.
• Notable Quote:

  “You can’t take it from me. My status here is secure. It doesn’t matter what any of you say.”
  — Dan Le Batard paraphrasing Riley (10:32)

6. Debate: Is Maintaining ‘Flexibility’ a Valid Strategy?

• The Heat’s prioritization of flexibility (cap space, picks), even at the expense of moving Jimmy Butler or Norman Powell when their value was high.
• Critique that this type of patience and hope for “the next superstar” hasn’t paid off—yet.
• Quote:

  “That’s been my biggest problem with the Heat. They don’t want it to hurt.”
  — Jonathan Zaslow (11:54)

• Discussion pivots to whether holding out for a potential Giannis trade is risky and perhaps anti-climactic given the pace at which rivals are passing the Heat.
• Quote:

  “I wanted the franchise to be closer. I don’t think you can look at this roster right now and say they're a Giannis away.”
  — Kenny (26:51)

7. Reflections on Heat History: When Moves “That Hurt” Paid Off

• Reminder that the Heat did go “all-in” for LeBron and Bosh (via trade), but paid a long-term price in picks.
• Quote:

  “We were still paying off that deal when LeBron wasn’t even on the team anymore.”
  — Jonathan Zaslow (27:39)

• Connects the Heat’s current aversion to risk to wounds from that era.

8. Local Leadership: University of Miami AD Controversy

• Frustration over Michael Yormark—accused of being a “nasty man” and ineffective business leader based on his tenure with the Florida Panthers—emerging as a front-runner for Miami’s Athletic Director position.
• Quote:

  “This is a nasty man. Like, he was a tyrant…what a nasty man. And to have him as a front runner…you can't do it.”
  — Jonathan Zaslow (31:44–32:35)

• Panel discusses University’s rationale: Yormark’s business ambition, Roc Nation connections, and desire to “be creative.” But many agree his baggage outweighs those assets.

9. The Tanking Debate & Heat’s Unyielding Culture

• Riley refuses to consider tanking for high picks, sticking to competing each season.
• Quote:

  “I'm not going to tank. And I can't stand the word... it doesn't make sense to me. But that's the way it is today.”
  — Pat Riley soundbite (38:13)

• Argument over whether “never tank” is admirable or an outdated approach in today’s NBA.

10. Where Do the Heat Go from Here?

• If the “Giannis plan” doesn’t work, panel wonders about next offseason—and the concern that the Heat are stuck in a cycle of hoping the next star falls into their lap, with ever-lower odds as their flexibility/situations erode.
• Quote:

  “If the Heat strike out on Giannis...then we're just perpetuating the same thing all over again, with less and less attractive pieces.”
  — Amin Elhassan (26:27)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Heat’s Risk Aversion:
  "That's been my biggest problem with the Heat. They don't want it to hurt."
  — Jonathan Zaslow (11:54)

• On Pat Riley's Perception:
  "People are reacting to him like he's Joe Biden...it's disrespectful to make him Grandpa forgot how to play basketball."
  — Dan Le Batard (25:07)

• On Riley's Loyalty to Bam:
  "I want to build this around Bam...I’m just going to get you flat out. No, I wouldn't do that unless somebody gave me eight picks and Mumbai."
  — Pat Riley (via sound clip, 21:39)

• On Foresight and Missed Opportunities:
  "They lack the foresight. Pat thought it was a better idea...to try and compete in the playoffs...when the prudent move would have been selling high on Powell."
  — Jonathan Zaslow (20:10)

• On Tanking:
  "I'm not going to tank. And I can't stand the word."
  — Pat Riley (38:13)

• On Michael Yormark as Miami AD:
  "What a nasty man. And to have him as a front runner...it's awful. Awful."
  — Jonathan Zaslow (31:44–32:35)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening takes on NBA playoff narratives – 01:38–06:31
• Riley press conference first reactions – 07:00–10:09
• Discussion of risky trades and Heat's reluctance – 11:15–13:26
• Debate on results of big trades (Gobert, Bain, Bridges) – 16:07–18:36
• Bam Adebayo/Pat Riley exchange (audio included) – 21:14–22:33
• "Flexibility" & Heat offseason strategies – 23:54–25:07
• Comparison to Heat’s ‘Big Three’ era and consequences – 27:30–28:14
• University of Miami AD controversy – 30:18–37:00
• Discussion of tanking and NBA culture – 38:13–39:34
• Ideas for moving forward – Bam, Giannis, culture crossroads – 26:27–26:58, 39:46–40:57

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Overall Tone & Final Thought

The discussion is candid, loyal to the Miami Heat's past but sharply critical of current strategies and leadership indecision. There's a mix of nostalgia and frustration, with the panel wrestling between continued faith in franchise legends like Riley and the stark reality of a league (and city) rapidly changing around them.

“It is disrespectful to make him Grandpa forgot how to play basketball…They've been trying to get themselves into position for Giannis, but I think at this point, even that will feel like anticlimax…”
— Dan Le Batard (25:07)

For listeners and Heat fans: The local hour offers both soul-searching and laughs, balancing hope for a bold Miami summer with skepticism about repeating the same cautious script.

Transcript

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[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look at the Talladega twins back there. They seem closer than they were before. They were together this weekend and consumed all of Talladega together. We will cover that a little bit later, but I want to ask you, Zaz, what's more offensive to you inside of the sports journalism realm that Greg Cody of the Miami Herald would have one reaction to the Dolphins first round pick and then a couple of days later when no games have been played, change his mind and apologize? Or Tony going from calling the Orlando Magic a joke clown car of a franchise to four games later saying they're going to be in the Eastern Conference finals?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I think. I think we give Tony, or at least we hold off on, on giving it to Tony over the Magic. You got to win four in the first round, Dan, not three. Okay? If the Pistons come back and win this series, then Tony would be absolutely right because a joke of a franchise would blow a 31 lead all right, so maybe he's actually prescient here.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's not prescient when a team's winning, shooting 32% and 38% because of how bad the Pistons are. Cade Cunningham having 24 turnovers in three games is something that hasn't been seen in the sport before. That lunacy for their best player to be that bad. And then. And then all of a sudden you've got a cane dunk that. That Tony's also making an all timer. He's putting it on the all time former Heat all time list of best dunks he's ever seen in game.

[Amin Elhassan]

That might be one of the best dunks I've ever seen. Obviously we had the Vince Carter in game where he jumps over the guy from France who's 7ft tall, which was incredible. But as far as like catching a body vice. Yeah, thank you. You're good with names, by the way.

[Dan LeBatard]

I know. Well, that is a memorable one though. It's all we know about Frederick Vice is that Vince Carter jumped over of him.

[Jeremy]

We know something else, that the Knicks drafted him over a run our test and he never showed up.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, you know that I believe most people if I say Fred's a good nugget, it is a good nugget.

[Mike Ryan]

But what was the Knicks?

[Dan LeBatard]

What's a better. What's a better nugget is a human being jumped over a seven footer and dunked during the Olympics. Jumped over the entirety of a seven foot again.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's why I said that, you know, stands in the pantheon of great in game dunks. But Jamal King caught a body, cranked it back and then finished throughout. It was incredible.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

So great in game dunks. You're talking Vince Carter, Blake Griffin, Anthony Edwards, Jamal Kane.

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean, again, take the names out of it. You want to put LeBron James there and he does exactly what he did. Like it's an all timer. The same thing the Jason Terry Alley Oop were, you know, LeBron dunks over him. That's a great moment too.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Let's all relive that.

[Kenny]

Yeah, but wait on Verizon.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's a good one too.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Oh, his sneakers were facing up.

[Dan LeBatard]

The thing you guys are doing though is they're all time dunks, but they're also old timers dunking it really. I mean, it's just not allowed to be Jamal Cain early in his career.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Dan. He's got a lot of time, but

[Dan LeBatard]

it's not allowed to be Jamal Cain. It can't be an all time dunk. If it's not an all time dunker,

[Listener/Caller]

this guy's just trying to distract from the fact that he was taking a victory lap all year on Kate Cunningham.

[Amin Elhassan]

Whoa. We're talking about the Magic right now, please.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, let's talk about the Pistons because Amin got this right. They cannot shoot. And yesterday they were trusting Tobias Harris and Duncan Robinson a lot. And that's dangerous to do when two fifths of your starting lineup is Tobias Harris. And your two best guys have been terrible in this series. Like your two All Stars have also been terrible. But the, the Magic winning that game. The Magic and the Raptors winning their games this weekend. Did The Raptors shoot 11% from 3?

[Mike]

Did they shoot 32% from 3?

[Dan LeBatard]

And they shot 11.

[Mike]

How do you win those games?

[Dan LeBatard]

That's, that's all just length on the perimeter, defending.

[Mike]

You've got just athletes defending in Orlando and Toronto, and you can win a game shooting 32% that way.

[Kenny]

Well, Styles make fights. And Amin and I were talking just before we got going here. Suggs is a problem in terms of a point of attack defender. He is giving Detroit all they can handle. It seems as though Orlando is specially equipped for the Detroit Pistons.

[Jeremy]

I, look, I have to stop short of patting myself on the back on that one if you had asked me, because remember I was telling. I don't know about these Pistons. They were number one. There was a time when they were number one in the league. Better than the Thunder, even. And I said, I don't know about these Pistons. I don't know. And I talked about experience. And Daniel's like, you keep going back to experience. You like the old guys. I'm like, look, man, I just know that when it comes to execution basketball, you need people who know what they're doing. And one playoff trip where you give them gave the Knicks a good fight. That's not enough experience to overcome your lack of shooting, your lack of free throw shooting and your turnover problem and the fact that you have one player who makes all the plays. Now, had you said to me, amin, you know who's going to do it to them? The Orlando Magic? I'd be like, come on, let's not be ridiculous. So that's where I stopped short. I'm not going to say I saw this coming from Orlando, but I definitely saw it coming to Detroit, to the Jalen Suggs point.

[Amin Elhassan]

By the way, his stat line. 1 for 13 from the floor, 1 for 11 from 3, plus 17 for the game.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, but I told you about this. Charlotte had trouble getting the ball over half court on him like he's. He's a problem defending the perimeter. But let's talk locally about what's happening in basketball here, because I don't know that I've ever reacted to a Pat Riley press conference that way. I was just wincing. I was wincing at the state of the franchise and I was wincing at some of the things said. Now I've been saying around here that that's a consortium of five that run the Miami Heat, that it's not just him, but him saying himself last yesterday. I'm not final say. It's never been me as final say. It's just conveniently placed to be saying that when he's never said it. And the organization at large has benefited greatly from concealing that, from always making it about the mythology of Riley. But I would say now less than ever does he have what you would consider final say. It's always been five people talking. But when he gets out there and does his annual press conference and says he's not retiring after a means spent yesterday wondering whether that that would be a retirement press conference for pat Riley at 81 years old, when he gets into a back and forth with Barry Jackson on saying, I'm not trading Bam, there's no circumstance under which I am trading Bam. Zaz, how did you experience that press conference yesterday? Before we get to some of the

[Jonathan Zaslow]

sound from it, it felt. Well, the first thing I would say as far as it being convenient that he says he's never had final say. I think as I expected him to, he. He was responding to this back and forth that there's been on social media. Now what, what, what is the timing of that? I don't know because it's not really anything new as far as the dynamic with the team. But there has been this weird discussion on social, which we know Pat Riley's not monitoring himself. Somebody's bringing it to him. PR is bringing it to him saying, hey, this is what people are talking about online right now. So that to me is why he addressed it the way that he did. But I found it to be a lot of the same old. There were a couple things that stood out to me that I didn't like, but. But for the most part, yeah, I thought it was very similar to the press conference last few years.

[Dan LeBatard]

When you say same old, though, I would go old same. Like what's happening here with pat Riley at 81 years old, 81 years old, the court gets named after him. The Lakers are giving him a Statue. He's getting all the things you get with the, the eulogy while he's still coaching and I don't believe or while he's still in management. I don't actually believe that there is a person or a group of people that you would put in charge of this that I would trust more than the five who are in charge of it. But recent results shake the faith. And when you don't make the playoffs, and that is the press conference and it's an 81 year old man doing it. And we've very rarely allowed people to age into this kind of age with grace. That's not something we really allow in sports. And so when I say, when I say I'm wincing, it's because the man up there knows what he's accomplished, knows what he's done, is secure in that knowledge. But things have moved fast the last five years and the Orlando's are past them and the Atlantas are past them and the Toronto's are past them.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Everyone who's trying to win is past

[Dan LeBatard]

them, literally, Indiana's past them. Well, it's the vantage point that they're watching all of this from. Is Pat Riley sitting there saying during that press conference basically what Orlando's doing that could have been us. We didn't fear Detroit, OKC and the

[Mike]

spurs are in the other conference. So we thought we had enough to

[Dan LeBatard]

beat everyone in this conference. He's never going to admit to fearing the Celtics in any way. And so when I say I'm wincing there, that press conference didn't show anything in the way of self awareness. It's the same sort of defiance on I know who I am here. It's who I've always been. You can't take it from me. My status here is secure. It doesn't matter what any of you say. They can't get someone better than me to replace me.

[Kenny]

They could have been Orlando. They chose not to be Orlando. Orlando made a big move in the off season and it was celebrated until like, you know, three quarters of the way down the season where people were questioning it. But Orlando made the aggressive move that hurt. And I thought the real thing that struck with me was this is the first Pat Riley press conference where the media understood the assignment and tried to bring the fight to Pat a little bit. And I enjoyed that.

[Jeremy]

Can I just point out the hypocrisy? If they had been flipped that the Heat had acquired Desmond Bain and the Magic had acquired Norman Powell, Mike would be saying the same thing right now. He'd be saying the same exact thing.

[Dan LeBatard]

Desmond Bain as an acquisition for that many draft picks to be the eight seed, like, they thought they were getting a final piece. That's not a final piece.

[Kenny]

I hear Amin's point, but I think the point that is made in this press conference is look to make a big trade in the NBA, not even for a franchise superstar, but for Bridges, for Rudy Gobert and for Bain. It took a lot of draft picks. These trades hurt everybody. When those trades were made, everybody kind of winced like, man, that's the rate for this. And the Miami Heat flatly don't do those trades.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That's been my biggest problem with the Heat. They don't want it to hurt.

[Kenny]

The Miami Heat do not want to do trades that have a little bit of risk in it for them.

[Listener/Caller]

We'll see where that goes. But not one of those trades has resulted in anything that is akin to what we've talked about being.

[Kenny]

Neither is what the Miami Heat's done. It hasn't resulted in anything.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay, right. But. But the point Jeremy makes is not an irrelevant one. Five draft picks, five first round picks for Bridges hasn't amounted to anything. Five first round picks for Gobert hasn't amounted to anything. What was it? Was it five first round picks for Bain? It hasn't amounted. Four first round picks for Bain hasn't amounted to anything. If the Miami Heat traded that many draft picks for any of those three players, you would not like those trades.

[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

None of them.

[Dan LeBatard]

You would like none of them. Exactly. Zero of them.

[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

I mean, go up to New York and ask people how they feel about Mikel Bridges like that. Like, you'd be skewing them, Mike. You'd be killing them right now.

[Kenny]

They're all playing basketball right now.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Right.

[Kenny]

Like Miami Heat aren't. But that's Miami Heat's whole goal is to be playing basketball right now. That is the whole mantra. Let's compete, let's try to win. These franchises went from trying to lose to trying to win, and they did it quickly and more effectively than the Miami Heat.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah, like, I. I would not like any of those trades. But those teams, like, and I'm not talking about right now because they're playing. It's the first round. I mean, everyone. Only one team's been eliminated so far, and it's Phoenix last night. Those. Those teams are contenders.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Like they're in it, you know?

[Jeremy]

Yeah. But they're not in it because of those deals. Maybe Minnesota. Minnesota, I'll give you. But New York is not in it because they went out and got Mikhail Bridges. They would have been in it anyway if they kept that, you know, Dante DiVincenzo and stayed the course or whatever.

[Mike Ryan]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

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[Kenny]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Kenny]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Kenny]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Kenny]

Don LeBatard, you're a big disappointment. Paul Pierce. Maya, I'm only upset right now that I don't get to do this in person. Paul Pierce.

[Jeremy]

Hey, how disappointed is it to be a Miami F fan right now?

[Kenny]

Stugats, brother. Actually, you make a really great point.

[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Dan LeBatard]

The thing that I want to say about this, because I know now, and we'll get to the contentious back and forth with Pat Riley and Barry Jackson in a second, but I know now that all of us are in the easy position of seeing the predicament that the Heat are in. And all of us are saying, how could you not see this earlier? How could you not trade Jimmy Butler earlier? How could you not trade Norm Powell earlier? There's a delusion on the self assessment with all of these franchises we're talking about. The Magic made a trade like they were a piece away.

[Mike]

They're not.

[Dan LeBatard]

Minnesota made a trade like they're a piece away.

[Mike]

They're not.

[Dan LeBatard]

The Knicks made a trade like they're a piece away. And I don't believe that trade is the one that brings them over the top. I don't think that any of those three trades are good trades.

[Jeremy]

I think there's a difference between all these things. Minnesota, they are, I mean, they are a championship contending team. They've been to the conference finals twice in a row. And if it hadn't been a catastrophic couple of injuries, we'd be sitting here saying, you know what, I think they might do it a third straight year.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Just because they haven't won a championship yet doesn't mean the trade didn't work.

[Dan LeBatard]

Right.

[Jeremy]

Exactly. I think if you're Minnesota, it worked exactly how they wanted it to. Remember, they are designed by the man who designed the Denver Nuggets. They are designed with the idea that we are going to stop if we have to get to where we want to go. We got to go through that guy. So I wouldn't. And also, Rudy Gobert is like a three or four time defensive player of the year. Guys, it's not because. Because he doesn't average 35 a game doesn't mean like, oh, it's not worth it. But we're lumping them in with Desmond Bain, who, respectfully, I like him as a good player, has never won anything individually or as a team, and Mikal Bridges, who, individually or as A team has never won anything and that's the difference between those three deals. One was from a premium award winning player and the other two were good role players.

[Dan LeBatard]

All three of the trades are bad because they've stopped trading that amount for anybody in the league. They just stopped doing it. They don't do it anymore.

[Mike]

They did it with those three and

[Dan LeBatard]

then everybody stopped doing it after that.

[Jeremy]

How can you say it's bad when they've been as successful as they've been?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah, what if they won? What if it's an only thing this year?

[Dan LeBatard]

Wait a minute.

[Mike]

You guys are saying as successful as they've been, the Heat have made the finals twice the last five years. You guys keep telling me it's a fake failure. You guys keep telling me it's a failure. Now Minnesota's a giant success when the furthest they ever go is the Western Conference finals. And a guy who gets played off the court who's good to play against Jokic and no one else in the league in the playoffs, that, that's now the standard for success. Trade five first round picks for Gobert

[Dan LeBatard]

is now the way we're doing it.

[Kenny]

That's not, that's not the discussion. They made it to the finals and they were very clearly still a piece away. And they chose, this is a cultural issue. They chose to not make those acquisitions because they stopped short of going all in of being super aggressive of making a trade that hurts them.

[Dan LeBatard]

My point is that the self analysis and self awareness of many of these teams is wrong. They all think they can do it. They all feel like the self assessment

[Mike]

is if we just get all our

[Dan LeBatard]

draft picks for Gobert, we're going to win the championship and then you're not.

[Mike]

If we just get three point shooting from Bain, we'll be, we'll get better.

[Dan LeBatard]

We won't be an eight seat anymore.

[Mike]

If we just give up the. If we get the perimeter defensive bridges,

[Dan LeBatard]

we'll stop the Celtics. We'll be able to, we'll be able to slow the Celtics.

[Mike]

They've all been wrong.

[Kenny]

I'm not trying to have a back and forth here. I'm saying that the Miami Heat were a piece away and they failed even while they were succeeding and making to finals. They just couldn't secure the deal that put them over the top because culturally they don't want to make the move. That hurts. And we are cherry picking a bunch of teams that had to be it their market or their position right now or just frustration with years of failure. They made moves that Hurt. And they're all in the conversation right now. We'll see how it works out. The Miami Heat are in the position right now that they are because they flatly haven't made a move to improve their chances. Now hopefully it works out and they can get a superstar in this offseason and that's what this whole press conference was about. But in a few short months, they went from reportedly at the deadline liking their team to very clearly not.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

They, they don't want to make moves that hurt. They won't go above what they believe the value of player X is has been probably my major gripe over the last few years, but I would also say another huge gripe that I have. And we heard Pat Riley talk about this yesterday. They lack the foresight. All right. And meaning Pat thought it was a better idea or them, the group, they thought it was a better idea to try and compete in the playoffs, which they ended up not making. And keeping Norman Powell, keeping Andrew Wiggins when the prudent move really would have been selling high on pal. Now that would have hurt. It would have hurt to do that in the middle, in the middle of the season, but it would have shown some foresight where hey, this is actually a better move for our future. And that's been something really over the last eight, nine, ten years. We could talk about where it's not being able to show the foresight, you know, with the contracts they've given to certain guys who have played well and then they signed to multi year deals like holy shit, we shouldn't have done that.

[Dan LeBatard]

Let's play the sound here of Pat Riley going back and forth with Barry Jackson on the subject of Bam. On a bio.

[Movie Character Voice]

No, I wouldn't. And name three teams. Give me three teams.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah.

[Kenny]

So Atlanta.

[Movie Character Voice]

Atlanta. Okay.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Young.

[Movie Character Voice]

Okay. Okay, who's next?

[Dan LeBatard]

Indiana moved off Sabonis, they got Halliburton. And Toronto moved off Siakam. And they're better with Ingram and the other pieces they've added.

[Movie Character Voice]

They're not Bam. I don't think they are. Not in my opinion anyhow. Especially with your franchise pillar, anchor maker, culture carrier and a talented guy. Now I'm not saying that these other players, you know, I think Atlanta's done an incredible job of. It isn't just, just Trey, it's the moves they made. The players they got very quick, very athletic team playing with no center, by the way. No center. You know, they're all like 6, 7, 6, 8. But they've been very effective, you know. And I'm not Saying that, you know, something would happen. But I want to build this around Bam. I think Mickey wants the same thing and Nick and Andy and all of us want to. So I'm. I'm just going to get you flat out. No, I wouldn't do that unless somebody gave me eight picks. And Mumbai,

[Mike Ryan]

Who's he?

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm not going to make fun of anybody getting names wrong, but that is what happens with age. And he also said flatly, and he's not wrong, that Bam's better than all of those players that were mentioned. I do believe the fairest criticism, though, is just the general inconsistency of, what do you mean you were going for it this year? Why didn't you trade for KD then? What do you hold. Holding on for the young players for if you were going for it all this year?

[Jeremy]

So that, that's the tough part about these press conferences, is that there are things that you can't say. Right? So, Mike, you've been saying reportedly, they like their team. I'm. This is. Let everyone know how fair I am. You can stop saying reportedly. He said it yesterday. So that is official. On the record. They made a decision not to make a move at the deadline. They liked the team that they had at that time. Having said that, you can't say I didn't want to make a deal for XYZ player because I'm saving myself for Giannis. You can't say that one out loud. But that's the reality is, like, we know they're aggressive. We know all the reporting is that them, Minnesota and the Knicks are the three teams that are really in the hunt for Giannis. And so you can't let the cat out of the bag, either strategically or even just rules wise. I'm saving my nuts for a winter that's coming that's going to have Giannis Antonokounmpo in it.

[Listener/Caller]

The word that you heard the most at that press conference was flexibility.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

So I say that every year.

[Listener/Caller]

No, so. So this is where things stand, right? Is the issue that we can all go back to is Jimmy Butler, right? They don't move off of Jimmy Butler early enough in the eyes of everyone in this room, myself included. But their strategy, in their minds, when they looked at their contract going into last season, was all right. Come 2027, we're going to have a massive amount of space and flexibility. That's the end of Jimmy. That's the end of all these other contracts. The moves they made in acquiring players for Jimmy kept that flexibility. They kept their picks. They kept their young players, all with the idea of acknowledging you don't necessarily acquire stars via free agency the same way as you did. But having all of that financial flexibility helps you in the trade market. In bringing those stars, in their view, was always keep yourself in position for next off season. And now they're in one where they have all of these expiring deals and can go from there. But that flexibility was the biggest piece in all of this.

[Dan LeBatard]

They're going to reinvent it from here. This is unusual, though, because there's less faith in them to do it than at any time that I can remember this management team being in place from the very beginning. 30 years and you've got your mythical icon at the top of the franchise. People are reacting to him like he's Joe Biden, like that's not something that I've experienced before because I know what the resume of that human being is, and it is disrespectful to make him Grandpa forgot how to play basketball when what Jeremy is saying is right. They've been trying to get themselves into position for Giannis, but I think at this point, even that will feel like anti climax given what's happened in the conference, given what's happened in the conference, given how many people have passed you in the conference, you're going to be building your team around two guys that you don't totally want shooting threes. Bam is better than all of those people we discussed before. Siakam and Sabonis and Young. He's better. He's better because his defense is stalwart and he makes them a great team defensively just by being the center of it, no matter who else is with him.

[Amin Elhassan]

The question is like, if the. If the Heat strike out on Giannis in this offseason, then what's the conversation going into the next season? Because then the next offseason has a bunch of guys and now we're just perpetuating the same exact thing all over again with less and less attractive pieces.

[Dan LeBatard]

Giannis and Bam loses to OKC in the spurs quickly. And I just didn't think that that's where we would be as a franchise.

[Kenny]

Yeah, I wanted. I wanted the franchise to be closer. I don't think you can look at this roster right now and say they're a Giannis away. I.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's crazy.

[Kenny]

I think they're going to need to add more to the team, and that's going to require some aggression. Now, it was over a decade ago, but when they felt like they had their franchise player, they went all in. And remember, Bosch and LeBron were actually trades. And if you look back at what they gave up for guys that essentially agreed to free agent deals, it's insane. So they have in the past made moves that have hurt. They just fell short in this window.

[Dan LeBatard]

You always make that, that point and nobody remembers that. You make that point all the time. That Bosh and LeBron were.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Riley brought it up again yesterday.

[Kenny]

Well, he's. As he should because like, look at it. Put the Cavs in position to get LeBron right back and it completely depleted the Miami Heat.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

We were still paying off that deal when LeBron wasn't even on the team anymore.

[Kenny]

And it was because at the last second, right as these guys are going to go on stage for their infamous press conference, not four, not five, not six, not seven. They had to because those guys wanted the extra deals. Deals that they ended up the extra years. And those guys ended up opting out of those extra years.

[Jeremy]

He gently nudged the agents under the bus yesterday. He's like, well, you know, we had to give up four first round picks because you know, they're agents. And I was like, oh wow.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

And even said even though we knew they were going to opt out after four, we, we had to give up extra picks. They could have the fifth and sixth year options.

[Jeremy]

Going for two when you're up by five, switching the zone when man isn't working. Oh, and building your new stadium in the state your actually plays in. In sports, some things just make sense. You know what else makes sense? Drinking Jagermeister shots. Ice cold. Drinking it any other way would be

[Mike]

like punting on first down or letting

[Jeremy]

your worst hitter bat first. Or like going for two when you're down three with a second ago. It wouldn't make any sense. So don't let the team down. When it comes to Jagermeister, drink it cold or don't drink it at all. Jagermeister. Damn, that's cold. Drink responsibly. Jagermeister liqueur, 35% alcohol by volume. Imported by Masked Jagermeister US White Plains, New York.

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[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

I don't want to mention names. Tnt, espn, you know. Oh yeah, they are dead. They cannot. They're not going to make it. You know, even if they win in the. If they lose in Miami.

[Dan LeBatard]

I need to calm you down.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I need to calm down.

[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

That's right. They lose in Miami, they don't get a chance in Boston or they are going to have their ass. You know what? In Boston, you know, stugats. They were wrong. Are they going to lose their job? No. Are they going to get a cutting page? No. What are they going to do?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Keep predicting.

[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

What is the obvious. They're going to say, oh, the Nuggets are going to win. Oh, Denver, the attitude. And you know what? The Heat are going to win it all. This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.

[Dan LeBatard]

Speaking of local leadership changes, the University of Miami athletic director job has come open. And that is a good job that has come open. And my shoulders sank when I saw one of those insipid. Your marks is in position to just treat people poorly again as part of a leading of sports franchise down here as it's being talked about that he's a front runner. And I'm like, you got to be shitting me. You can't put that guy in charge of something else down here in South Florida.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I was so, so, so disappointed when I saw Michael. Your mark's name is a front runner. There are reports out there that um has offered him the job of athletic director. Now Mike says that that's not true. They have not offered it. Okay? But at the very least, he is a frontrunner to be the new athletic director. This man was the CEO and president of the Florida Panthers when you could make the case they were the most pathetic, embarrassing, incompetent franchise in all of pro sports. And on top of that, this, this is a nasty man. Like he was a tyrant the way that I was Panther studio host for the radio team for two seasons.

[Listener/Caller]

Okay?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

And that was during his time when he was there. So I had somewhat of a look what was going on there and the way this man treated people in that building. People who work their asses off. I'm not going to name names, all right? People who work their asses off for that.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think you can name the names of people who work their asses off.

[Kenny]

You worked your ass off.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Fine. Randy Moeller. Okay. I'll just say It. Whatever. Whatever. All right? There's no one who. Who takes more pride in their job and works harder than Randy moeller does with the Florida Panthers. And the way that. And the way that I saw and heard this man, Michael, your mark treated some people like Moeller. Holy shit. What a nasty man. And to have him as a front runner.

[Dan LeBatard]

You can't do it.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Oh, it's awful. Awful. It's awful. If the Miami hurricanes hire him.

[Dan LeBatard]

You said awful twice. And the second time you looked at the camera, that means.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I'm serious.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's that you meant it. You can't do this. University of Miami. You can't. Let's go. Your take is not as strong as that. Be more creative than this. What? You can't do it. It's forbidden.

[Mike]

Forbidden.

[Dan LeBatard]

More, more, more, more.

[Mike]

Do not hire the nasty man. University of Miami.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

He's so nasty.

[Kenny]

I. I was an intern at the Florida panthers when Michael, your mark was there, and I've been on record as my experience there. And, yeah, his reputation isn't great. Dan said, be more creative. Those at the university in Miami who have influence that like Michael Yormark, would say, this is exactly that. This is them trying to be creative. You know, Michael Yormark's brother has done a good job with the Big 12, and they point to the roc nation thing. Michael Yormark's been angling for this position for quite some time. His seats are right next to mine. His daughter is a cheerleader at the university.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

When you took me to the game, I saw him. He was. I pointed him out. I go, there's Yormark right there. I didn't like that.

[Kenny]

Yeah, he's.

[Jeremy]

Hold on. Did you tell him he's a nasty man to his face?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

No, I don't want to go near him. No, no, no, no. I. I don't want to go near him. I don't like.

[Jeremy]

Seats are right next to yours.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Well, not right next. Okay. Thank God I wasn't too close.

[Dan LeBatard Show Host]

I don't.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I don't want any. That snake oil dripping on me.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't think you need to thank God that the snake oil salesman wasn't leaking on you. I don't think that's necessary to bother God with that.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Thank God for what? I choose.

[Jeremy]

God's like. His secretary is like, I got a Jonathan zaslo line, too. All right, let's see. What's he going. He was up. Zazley.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Just want to thank you for, you know, keeping your mark away from the hurricanes.

[Kenny]

That's all I do believe that there's going to be a full process here and other candidates are going to be considered. I understand.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

So it's not true that he's been offered.

[Kenny]

I can't speak for someone who doesn't have the final say, maybe posturing and really favoring this candidate but he hasn't been offered the job by the person that is going to be making the call on this and it's going to be Joe Echeverria that makes the call on this. And by all accounts University of Miami is considering more than one candidate here. There is going to be a proper search.

[Jeremy]

Mike, what is the Give us the opposite side. What's the positives? What are they championing him for?

[Kenny]

So if you read the. The Pete Thamel stuff, look this Michael, your mark wants his name out there. This is how Michael Yormark operates. However, it probably lacks some self awareness in thinking that people would you know, receive this well because of all the stuff that he's done with Roc Nation and the Big 12 stuff kind of overlooked and certain people at the University of Miami perhaps didn't know his history down here in the market. But they want somebody that is forward thinking that that doesn't really have a history in college football because college football is changing. They don't want someone from a bygone era. They want someone to take this wherever it goes. Because we know right now we're sitting in a very weird time for college football.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

But there has to be someone else, right?

[Dan LeBatard]

Mike, the argument on his behalf.

[Kenny]

There are a couple of others that

[Dan LeBatard]

the Yormark name has an association that's good with business. He might argue that when he was a Florida Panthers executive was early on and that he's learned a lot since then about how to be and has grown out of whatever his fear soaked role was back then. This is somebody who's considered business ambitious in a city that always has trouble raising funds for anything. A program that has trouble raising funds.

[Kenny]

Well, you mentioned the business. The business. I mean his reputation in terms of how he treated people is one thing. Zaz spoke to that but business wise and talking to people that were at the Florida Panthers he left them in quite the lurch. There were a lot of trade for ticket deals that did not benefit the franchise at all. It was quite the mess to clean up. And I don't think we can overlook it might be circumstantial but the Florida Panthers franchise turned around when they purged that franchise immediately left.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

They're one of the best franchises.

[Dan LeBatard]

So are we Looking at free Hurricanes like Hurricanes just giving away tickets. Now if your remarks.

[Kenny]

He presents very well. He has famous friends. DJ Khaled has been his guest at several games. The Roc Nation thing. The Roc Nation thing carries a lot of weight until you start pulling back the layers in America. I think their most famous client is Lamelo Ball. You know, it's kind of like people think Roc Nation is bigger than it actually is, but it does carry weight. And I think that's what people want. They want Miami to be at the cutting edge. Now, Dan Radakovich wasn't that. Dan Radakovich was, was very much a legacy administrator. But people have all sorts of opinions on Dan. They had the results like they, they, they did turn the.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's crazy to me, right? Because everything I heard about Radicovich was that he wasn't very good as an athletic director. But they did get results. I know that Pat Riley is good at what he does, but he did not get results the last couple of seasons. And now time waits for no one. In sports, people are wildly impatient. And so I would just ask you, Amin, as we dissect the local leadership here, if you want the Miami Heat to be forward thinking, ahead of the curve, unlike they've been the last couple of years, then you have to trade Bam, don't you?

[Jeremy]

Well, it depends. I'm with Pat in that. Like, you gotta tell me what I'm getting for him. If you're telling me I'm getting a gajillion picks or you're telling me I'm getting a young player that we all know is going to be incredible.

[Dan LeBatard]

Sure.

[Jeremy]

The problem is many of these scenarios don't involve that right when we're talking about these things. To me, the bigger issue is when he says there is zero scenario, zero scenario where we will opt in to being bad in order to tank and get a high pick. He said the day Mickey and Nick come in my office and say we're going to do this is the day I quit. And he said that.

[Dan LeBatard]

Let's hear Pat Riley in his own words say we're not tanking.

[Movie Character Voice]

I'm not going to tank. And I can't stand the word. And I know they're now talking about it in the NBA about how can we deal with tanking. I never heard that 15, 20 years ago. You know, there's a 65 game limit on awards. You're just sending out messages to players they don't have to play and they can still win something. You know, I mean, it doesn't make sense to me. But that's. That's. That's the way it is today.

[Dan LeBatard]

I was mentioning earlier, Maine, that the market has closed down on the idea of we give four first round picks for Bain, five for Bridges, five for Gobert. But if gobert is worth five and Bridges is worth five and Bane is worth four, Bam's worth more than that,

[Jeremy]

or Kevin Durant was worth one, like, it's all kind of relative. So it's hard.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

It's what they're worth to that team.

[Jeremy]

Exactly. That's all that matters. It's not like, you know, going to the market and saying, hey, how much for this can of Campbell's soup? It's 99 cents here. Well, it's 69 cents over at Publix or whatever. It doesn't work that way. You can't. Price comparison. It's whatever the negotiation. And negotiation oftentimes comes down to leverage. One side has it, one side doesn't. The Knicks wanted Mikael Bridges. The Nets knew that Mikael Bridges wasn't, like, their centerpiece, but they knew, hey, those guys really want them. How much? One. No. Two? No. Three? No. Four.

[Mike]

No.

[Jeremy]

Oh, five. Okay. And a couple of seconds. That's how that works. There was no one else. It wasn't a bidding war. It was just the Knicks were a dog. Like a dog with a bone on this, and they wanted what they wanted.

[Dan LeBatard]

Szasz, what do you do with Pat Riley having the delusion, I'm gonna call it, of saying the only teams I feared were the spurs and the Thunder when everyone in the conference is better than you?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah, like, I obviously don't like that, but you're. You're spot on when you say that. It's. It's double speak. Because if you do feel that way, then why didn't you go all in and get that one big piece? Like, who cares about these assets and flexibility? If you can get a guy like Durant and you think that there's no one in the Eastern Conference who you can't beat?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, that would have been a bad move, by the way. Durant. I believe all of those things. I believe all of those things would have been shortsighted.

[Listener/Caller]

Were you just saying they should have done it?

[Mike Ryan]

No, it was a bad thing.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, he's saying it's double speak to say that you're all in for right now.

[Kenny]

That's a little unfair. I don't think that Durant move would have been bad. I don't.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think the Durant move would have been what it's been in Houston. It's not enough.

[Kenny]

Wow. Top four team, that's great.

[Dan LeBatard]

But not enough. Not enough, not good enough.

[Mike]

You got to be better than the best. You can't wait.

[Mike Ryan]

We have Bama to buy them.

[Mike]

So top four teams, good enough now. But when Jimmy Butler's top two team, that's not good enough, right? That's failure amid success, as you said.

[Kenny]

No, the failure is not making the move.

[Mike Ryan]

Hey, it's Mike Ryan, and I want to talk to you about the random midweek hang that you have with your friends. Maybe it's an NBA game. You get a text, hey, come over. You want to watch the game? And maybe you're like, ah, I don't know. I kind of just wanted to stay home. And then you think about it after your buddy hits you up and you know just the thing that'll make that regular hang, that regular midweek hang around the basketball game into a special time, into a Miller time. That's right. This happened to me just last week. I grabbed a six pack of Miller Lite, said I was on my way, and next thing you know, we're arguing about rotations like we're on the coaching staff yelling about a missed call, and the game's coming down in the final possession. It was one of those nights that you look around, you take a sip and you think, yeah, this was the right call and my friendship's stronger for it. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer.

[Kenny]

It's Miller time.

[Mike Ryan]

Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.