← The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Six Defining Games of NFL Week 14; Deshaun Watson Cleared to Practice & Von Miller Speaks on Parsons
00:52:52
Loading summary
Transcript128 lines
- [00:01]
A
All right, my fellow football Americans, we haven't a moment to waste. It's NFL week 14, rivalry week plus on Saturday, championship games galore in college football. Let's jump right into it. Not in a minute, not after breakfast.
- [00:15]
B
Now.
- [00:27]
Yes.
- [00:27]
A
Hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to NFL Week 14 featuring Big Time rivals in big time games and in college football championship weekend. Like I say, welcome to football America. Episode number 31. We're presented as ever by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours. And fellows, we have a lot to get to. Von Miller, like we say, Sports Illustrated. Matt Verderam, our old pal. But first we have to honor the player who wore the episode number best. Like I say, episode 31. Welcome back, Gino Fuentes from your journey to Columbia, where I assume you enjoyed some nice turkey while you were there. I've got among NFL guys, camp Chancellor Donnie Shell. The hall of Famer Priest Holmes. Jamal Lewis. Am I forgetting anyone NFL wise?
- [01:16]
C
No. Jamal Lewis would have been my first one out of the gate, but yeah, how about Dave Winfield? MLB legend, 3,000 hits, 460, some home runs drafted in three sports.
- [01:27]
A
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Great piece of trivia there. I think. So was his the guy who tried to draft them, Bud Grant up there in Minnesota long ago. Reggie Miller as well. How about you? Mike Fuentes.
- [01:39]
D
Greg Maddox.
- [01:41]
A
Greg Maddox, a very strong one from the hockey world. One of the great netminders we've ever seen. Even though he had a higher goals allowed total. That's because he played on a team that really shot it out most nights in Edmonton. Grant Fuhrer. Also Mike Piazza. There you have your 30 ones. And before we get to Von and Verderam, it's time now for this week's pick six, presented as ever by our pals at DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours. Let's give everybody a hollow tree a holiday treat, shall we? Mike and Gino. Gino and Mike. Six guys that I. I like to do it now touchdowns. You do it how you want to. Here are my picks. Derrick Henry is going to find the end zone at least once. He has four touchdowns. His three against that bum Steelers rush defense. This seems like a gimme. Same goes for James Cook, who just cooked that same Steelers defense. He'll get into the end zone against the sorry bungles defense. So will his pal Josh Allen. Now two touchdown throws. Joe Burrow in what figures to be a shootout up there in western New York. Bake versus the Saints. It's been three games since my guy Bake threw multiple touchdowns. He gets off the schneide. And lastly, Jordan Love versus Chicago. He has six touchdown throws in his last three games. He continues to roll against the arch rival Bears. Any changes you want to make? Have at it, fellas.
- [03:03]
C
I'm going to take out Derek Henry and I'm going to put throw in Quinton Judkins here. Tennessee's awful. Tennessee's going into straight up tank mode. This game is in Cleveland. And when they get inside the 10 yard line, the Browns, I mean, they just, they take the quarterback out. They just don't want any errors. So they just put Quintean in and have it rush it in.
- [03:20]
D
Yeah, a lot of wildcat for Jenkins.
- [03:22]
A
And the Browns are feeling DeSean's coming back. Everything's possible, Mike. How say you?
- [03:27]
D
There's no way to shots Watson plays. That's impossible.
- [03:29]
A
Not this season.
- [03:30]
C
Yeah, I'm gonna go.
- [03:31]
A
Enthusiasm must be overflowing. Yeah, I'm gonna go.
- [03:35]
D
And other stuff with Jackson, Smith and Jigba. Jsn, he had a terrible game last game in the middle in Minnesota. He's gonna want to show out and continue his pace. So he's gonna go over 90 and a half yards. I know he should pick touchdowns here, but I really feel really strong about the JSN pick.
- [03:48]
A
All right, let's talk about one of the real hot teams right now, in fact, in contention for the number one seed with one stars ever, Von Miller.
- [04:00]
Hi, and hello, my fellow football Americans. Late word. I'm sure you already heard the news, but we've officially arrived at the holiday season, AKA the best time of the year. Family, food, football. Best of all, Miller Light. It's time to go on vacation or to go to work parties or to go to parties with your pals or to not go to work at all. It's all about spending time in this holiday season with good people and good beer. And that's where Miller Light comes in. You know, it's Miller's 50th anniversary after all. And with only 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it's a great choice, nay, the finest choice without weighing you down like all that food's gonna. Miller's the original light beer, trusted by beer lovers everywhere for 50 years. It's the kind of beer that you take a sip of and you think, boy, I made the right call here, Dave. But you probably won't call yourself Dave unless your name is Dave. Or maybe you want to call yourself Dave. You do. You this Holiday season. All rules are off. The best holiday beers are the ones you don't expect. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com fba to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tis Miller time. See, I said that like it's holiday season. Tis you say around Thanksgiving or Christmas. So so tis. Please always remember to celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12. Oh, hello my fellow football Americans. Quick detour here from our beloved pro football. We only have a few weeks left, a few precious weeks left of the regular season. But great news. The NBA season is rolling and DraftKings newest game, Pick Six, is the easiest way to play for your shot at big wins. NBA stars are lighting it up now. Their numbers aren't just highlights for you to look at. They're your shot to cash in. And it's such a simple game. Here's how it works. Just pick more or less on two or more player stats. The better your picks, the bigger your payout. So nail your picks tonight. And don't just win. Stack up those payouts. And by the way, new DraftKings customers get $50 in pick six credits with just a five dollar entry on your first pick set. Don't just watch basketball. Pick it up. Play it. Cash in. Download the DraftKings pick six app now and use the code Damasek. That's code Damascus. D A M E S H E k play just $5, get $50 and pick six credits. Make the call. Ride the upside. In partnership with DraftKings pick six, the crown is yours.
- [06:36]
I once gave this guy a cello way back at the NFL honors. I gave him another gift as well at another NFL honors. Either way, in a few years, he's going to be getting a gold J. And in the meantime, he's got a new or newish podcast with Odyssey. It's called Free Range with Von Miller. And his name just so happens to be Von Miller. What's happening man? How are you? Good to see you.
- [06:58]
E
Howdy guys. I'm doing good. I appreciate you guys for having me.
- [07:01]
A
Sure thing. And you know, when you consider the name Von Miller in pro football terms, your brain immediately goes to the Lombardi that you won in 2015 with the Broncos. But really, the two Lombardi that you won nine sacks in the two postseasons that ended with you hoisting that trophy up, do you believe for a pass rusher or anyone really beyond quarterback. Do you believe in the idea of clutch?
- [07:32]
E
Yeah, I think, I think after you experience it a couple of times, you start to believe it. You start to drink the Kool Aid like whenever you, you play in big time games and big time moments and you have success consistently, you just start to like, believe it. So, yeah, I like the, I like the term, you know, playoff on. You know, it's, it's looking tough for us right now, but I like, I like playoff on a lot.
- [07:57]
A
Speaking about that Super Bowl 50 team, Peyton Manning was a great name brand and remains one, but I think even he concedes that you, the defense though, fly zone and all the rest of it kind of carried him along the way there.
- [08:13]
What, what do you think about people like me who kind of, I respect the analytics and all of that, but I think that they have all added up to take away the drama of the postseason, which is those, those small moments are those, those singular moments that define the entire career. Do you think that it's appropriate to weigh those moments most heavily when you evaluate whether or not a guy's a Hall of Famer?
- [08:39]
E
It just, it really just depends. You know, it's some quarterbacks that I feel like are hall of Fame quarterbacks that have never won a Super bowl. And you know, usually you'll say like, you gotta win a Super bowl, like to be like one of those guys or have like one of those big moments in the postseason to be like a Hall of Fame all time great. But, you know, I played against plenty of quarterbacks. There's a lot of quarterbacks that I respect that I feel like should be hall of Fame quarterbacks that never had those moments. So it just, it really just depends who.
- [09:11]
A
Well, I put you on the spot. Who would those guys be? I mean, I guess. Well, I can answer for you a little bit. Lamar and Josh Allen come to mind. I think they're both, I think both, they're both safely going to get Gold Jackets at this point. Right?
- [09:26]
E
Yeah. I mean, those guys gonna have multiple opportunities to win Super Bowls, and my bet is that both of those guys will have at least one super bowl by the time it's all said and done. How is it thinking along, like, you know Philip Rivers.
- [09:45]
Yeah, like, you know, a guy like Philip Rivers that I respect a lot, respect his game. He's a Hall of Fame quarterback, in my view. Never had that opportunity to like get in the postseason. He's been in the postseason. But Super Bowls and like to be able to hoist the super bowl trophy Never had the opportunity, but in my opinion, he is a Hall of Fame quarterback.
- [10:07]
A
Man, Phil Rivers, that one year where LT was hurt up in Foxborough, they were the better team heading in there, but LT couldn't go and had to yank himself after the first drive. But Phil Rivers standing out there all day on the bum knee and everything else, that's borderline hall of Fame sort of behavior by itself. Okay, so like we say, you have not one, but two Lombardi's, and spoiler alert, you are going to get a gold jacket. I hope that doesn't diminish the drama when that day arrives for you. But let's say, Von, you can only have one. Which would it be, The Lombardi or the gold jacket?
- [10:42]
E
I would rather have the Super Bowls, man. Like, you know, to be able to, you know, share those small moments, like, with your teammates and be connected for life. Like, there's nothing like it. Like, now I just, you know, get nostalgic and, like, reminisce on, you know, how dope it was to, like, win a Super bowl with Peyton Manning and Matthew Stafford and Aaron Donald and, like, I'll always be connected to those guys, like, for that one game that we played for the rest of life. We will always be connected through those wins. And, you know, I'd be old and crispy and still, you know, be able to, like, point to my great grandkids, like, hey, I won the super bowl like, that one time. So I would. I would say, like, you know, a Super Bowl, super bowl win is a little bit doper for me. I would like to have both, though.
- [11:32]
A
So Super Bowl 50, you have the spectacular performance, you're the MVP of the game.
- [11:39]
And all of that. From a fashion standpoint, now that we're on the subject of, of. Of fashion, why 58 then 40 now 24? If you go to another team after this year, what can we expect? Like two or something like that?
- [11:58]
E
No, I would like to say. Well, I think 58 is just done. 58 is. I only wore 58 because I couldn't wear 40. And, you know, Derrick Thomas wore 58, and I loved his game, modeled my game after him. I was a fan of Derrick Thomas. Like, that was like my guy. And, you know, he wore 58. I couldn't wear 40 with the Denver Broncos at the time. Now you can, but I couldn't wear 40 at the time, so I wore 58. And, you know, that was my 11 years in Denver. Like, that's over with and done. 58 is done. Denver. Only I was 40. My whole entire life, high school, college, tried to be 40 in Denver. Like I said, it didn't happen. So when I went to the, to the Los Angeles rams wore number 40. When I went to the Buffalo Bills wore number 40 and you know, I just kind of wanted to.
- [12:58]
I really like, you know, Kobe and you know, Champ Bailey played here.
- [13:03]
A
I was gonna ask you if it was a champ thing.
- [13:05]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [13:05]
E
Huge fan of Champ Bailey. Like, and I just like the way like the 2 and 4, like looked in a Washington commander's jersey. So Kobe champ.
- [13:18]
Here in Washington, like, it makes you look a little bit slimmer. And yeah, I went with 24.
- [13:24]
A
It's funny you say that because generally speaking, I found.
- [13:29]
That guys who are great at sports, professional level, don't necessarily aren't as fascinated by watching other people play the sport that they've dominated. And so it is striking that you do care about other sports. And you. And I remember when you were coming into the league, that Derek Thomas clone, and this is the guy he looks up to and all of that. But really you mentioned Kobe, who modeled his game after Michael Jordan. And really in so many ways, in terms of style and the mid career adjustment that he. That that they both made and even in the way they comported themselves around microphones and everything they really did. You are, I hope this comes off as a compliment. You are really as much like Derek Thomas as anyone I've ever seen play pro football. I mean, physically, if you had the same uniform and number on, it would be hard distinguish one from the other.
- [14:24]
E
That's cool, man. Yeah, like, I watched all his videos on YouTube, like over and over and over, watched his game film, watched his interviews. Like, I've seen so much of Derrick Thomas. Just anything that, anything that Derrick Thomas was involved in that you could search and look up, I've seen it.
- [14:46]
A
I count eight guys from 2011 getting a gold jacket. Ultimately.
- [14:55]
Do you care about that draft class? Do you like to brag to other guys about I was a part of what maybe goes down as the greatest of all time?
- [15:04]
E
Yeah, I like to, you know, I like to hold it up in the air and brag about it. That, that draft class was amazing, you know, from start to finish and even in like the second round, in the third and fourth round, like that whole entire draft had, you know, Richard Sherman was in that draft. I think he was a fifth round pick. You know, you got guys like that in that draft that have contributed to like, the sport. What I like to, when I think about hall of Fame players. The one rule that I like to go by that that makes a guy a Hall of Fame player or not is.
- [15:45]
2,000 years from now, in 4,000, 5,000 years from now. Say, if you have, like, somebody looking up what humans did, right, how we're.
- [15:57]
A
Going to be gone, our species will be erased.
- [16:00]
E
I mean, just think if we moved on to something else, like, okay, okay.
- [16:03]
A
Different part of the universe.
- [16:05]
E
They looking at, like, humans. What do they do? Like, oh, they play football, basketball. And you look up, like, football and the history of football, like, the history of the NFL. Like, can you tell the story of the NFL with or without that player? Like, if you can't tell the story of the NFL without saying that player, then I feel like he's a Hall of Fame player. If you can tell that story to, you know, 5,000 years from now, if you going through the history of the National Football League and you can tell that story without that player, I feel like he's not a Hall of Fame player. And, you know, some players fit in there. It could be like, one play. Like, you know, you say, for instance, like Odell Beckham, like that catch. Like that catch. Whenever people look up the history of the NFL, that catch will always be involved in telling the story of the NFL. So it's little things like that that make it interesting for me. But that's the. That's the rule that I like to, you know, tell myself. Can you tell the history of the. The game with or without that player?
- [17:20]
A
That's a good measure. Rod Woodson told me forever ago that you have to have been, at least for one season, the best or at worst, the second best player at your position. Which is. Which is not as grand as the way you put it 4,000, 5,000 years from now after the humans have departed the planet Earth. Either way, an interesting measure there.
- [17:42]
So one more question about. About Cam Newton, because he's been outspoken about a guy in your division, your current division, Jalen hurts. You have to win one game. Jalen hurts or Cam Newton? Who does Von Miller take?
- [17:56]
E
So when I think about Super Bowl 50, right? You know, we played to that level. Cam Newton got that out of us. Like, if Cam Newton wasn't Cam Newton, we would not have played that great. Like, we understood that we had to be at our very best to have success that day. Like Cam Newton at his prom.
- [18:18]
You can't tell the story of the NFL without, like, Cam Newton. Like.
- [18:23]
He was a special player. Like, he brought it out of you. Like, played Cam Newton three times. And he brought it out. He brought it out of me. Like I knew I was going against a great player. I knew I was going to against one of the best players in the.
- [18:36]
A
Bigger than you too.
- [18:37]
B
That's that that had to be the.
- [18:39]
A
Weirdest thing for you. Is the quarterback bigger than I am?
- [18:41]
E
He's big, he's fast, he's strong. Like you know, I knew that we had to be on point to have success. So I would go with Cam Newton. Like he, he was a special player.
- [18:54]
A
So now a commie make a choice for me who's going to win the division, the Eagles or the Cowboys?
- [19:00]
E
The Eagles are kind of slumping right now, but the Eagles have done that in the past. They have been up and down and made it to the Super Bowl. Been up and down and won the Super Bowl. So you know coach Sirianni, he does an incredible job. Jalen Hurts is.
- [19:18]
Exceptional player. They got exceptional weapons all over the place. Offensive line, defensive line, wide receivers, cornerbacks, safeties, linebackers, exceptional coaches.
- [19:31]
I would have to, you know, think that the Eagles will get it together and somehow get through the division.
- [19:39]
A
I'm inclined to agree with you because the Cowboys obviously have some more work to do. I do wonder though where you come down given the high end performance, you've delivered it as a pass rusher and by the way on your new show free range. I do like when you have the pow wows with, with other great pass rushers. That's fun stuff to, to check out from a distance but do you think ultimately that Jerry Jones made the right decision to trade away Micah Parsons?
- [20:11]
E
Yeah, I think he did and I think that, I think that just, I think it was a win win for one. It was a win win. Micah got what he deserved and Jerry Jones got a defensive tackle that needed defensive tackle help. They've been knowing that for years that they needed big time defensive tackle help and he got draft picks. So I think that decision was kind of already made. They just kind of like drug it out. I think whenever you have the highest paid quarterback in the NFL and the second highest paid wide receiver in the NFL, it kind of those decisions kind of make themselves. If it were me, I, I just simply don't believe in having the best quarterback, the highest paid quarterback and the highest paid wide receiver like.
- [21:01]
You know, it don't that I would rather in my, the GM Vaughn sense, I would rather trade the wide receiver and get two wide receivers. Say if that's a 30 million dollar wide receiver, I'd rather just get two 15 million dollar wide receivers and have the highest paid, 60 million dollar quarterback. Like that makes more sense, you know.
- [21:23]
A
To me if that QB is worth that loot, not just because he's reached that spot in his, it's his sixth year, so you have to pay him out because we used a first round pick on him. In that logic, is he actually the genuine article and work that kind of bank?
- [21:37]
E
Yeah, exactly. If I'm, if he's worth that, then I don't need to have the second highest, the highest paid wide receiver, you know, so I would always, you know, bet on defensive guys, you know, Micah, and guys of that caliber can really create their own magic. They don't have anybody throwing them the ball. We saw last year when Dak was injured, like everything just went downhill. Like, you know, you don't have a wide receiver is dependent on like somebody throwing them the ball. Like if you have a big time defensive player or offensive line, any, anything like that, offensive line, cornerback, you know, those type of players, they, they are not dependent on like an extra element to be successful.
- [22:26]
A
So Bo Nix, do you buy we talk about the genuine article or a guy who was just taken in the first round and so you build around him. Is Bo Nix capable of getting to a Super bowl and winning it?
- [22:38]
E
Yeah, the combination that you have to have. And when we think about those, those other super bowl teams, organizations, Kansas City Chiefs, Patriots, you gotta have a quarterback, you gotta have the head coach, you gotta have the defense. The Denver Broncos have that right now and they are firing on all cylinders and they have a really good team and it's, it's special to watch from afar. Like, I'm so glad that I'm through with that game, that I now can go back to being a Denver Broncos fan like for 60 minutes. 60 minutes last night, like, I had to like, you know, hate him and I wanted to win like so bad. Like, it's still like on my back, like right now. I'm still like sick about it, but I'm kind of glad that I'm through with it. Now I can go back to being a Denver Bronco fan where my heart will always be.
- [23:31]
A
Well, so you're gonna get to watch all that now as a fan and look in the rearview mirror at that. And as you play out in, in D.C. what's changed over the decade and a half since you got to the league? What, what, what are the most fundamental sort of differences not for you as a professional, but league wide?
- [23:53]
E
There are more cameras.
- [23:56]
There's always been cameras on you Too.
- [23:59]
A
There's a camera on you right now.
- [24:01]
E
There's always been cameras, but now there are so many cameras and they catch everything. And that's why, like, you see guys getting spit on now and like punches below the bill and like, you see so much now. And honestly, all of this stuff has been going on for the history of the NFL. But now, like, cameras just. They have a camera just about every player on the football field. Like, everything is seen that is, that has changed. That is different. I think just the overall exposure, it gets bigger, more reach every single year. And just the players, like, they just get bigger, faster, stronger. Like every year. Like, you thought six foot corner was big back in my day. Now they're six, four. Now you got Patrick Sartan, J.C. horn, Stingley. You thought, like, you know, defensive tackles were fast and athletic, like with J.J. watt. Now you got Jalen Carter and you had guys like that. And you thought defensive ends were crazy, like Michael Strahan, you know, Elvis Dumerville, like Dwight Freeney. Now you got Aiden Hutchinson and Miles Garrett. Like, they just get bigger, stronger, faster.
- [25:22]
A
It's wild. And that's just a decade and a half. I'm old. I remember watching number 58, Jack Lambert play. If you put him on an NFL field now, he would look like the size of your average kicker. Couple more real quick for you and then, and then we'll call it a day.
- [25:38]
Again. Back to fashion. Best uniform Von Miller's gotten to wear. You can include A and M if you want to, although that would be the wrong choice.
- [25:46]
E
I think. Going to the Rams, like, it was just. It was new and it was special. Like, it was different. I had been orange and blue my whole entire life, and now you're like this neon yellow and this neon blue. Like, I thought that was so cool. And then we had the cream, we had the off white. Like, I like those.
- [26:09]
A
People always get down on those. I think they look pretty cool.
- [26:11]
E
They call it bone. Like, the bone colors, like, it was just so different. Like, and I had been in Denver for 11 years, like, you know, and orange and blue is cool and dope in its own right. Like, to be able to wear all orange, like, that was. That was super cool too. But, like, you just kind of get like numb and like, used to those colors after being there for 11 years. Now it's like, bro, I love the Denver Broncos colors. Like, I got orange and blue, like, running in my veins. Like, I love the Denver Broncos. Like, seeing those uniforms, especially, like the new ones, like, in the new variations and Doing the old school, like powder blue with the, with the orange, like, man, it's so cool. It's so dope. But for me, the coolest uniforms that I've put on were, you know, all the uniforms that we wore in my, in my time with the Los Angeles Rams.
- [27:02]
A
Enjoy the rest of this season. Can't wait to see what you do on the other side of that. In the meantime, keep having fun with the podcast. Free Range is its name. It's real good stuff. I was checking it out last night and today it is entertaining for a football fan, especially one who roots and has rooted for Von Miller along the way. Easy to do that. One of the more fun guys in pro football for the last decade and a half. Thanks for the time, man.
- [27:27]
E
Thanks, pal. I appreciate you having me.
- [27:29]
A
There he goes, Number 24, I think number 40. Number 40. Let's go with that. Good luck to the Aggies. Hope they don't catch my alma mater, the Indiana Hoosiers. It'll be a quick postseason for them if they do giggle.
- [27:48]
All right, good times await the next 15 or 20 minutes of your ears. He's a writer for Sports Illustrated. He's the host of the Matt Verderom show on Patreon. There's a Patreon I still haven't learned after all these years how to pronounce it. Either way, he's also the host of that football show on Case Sports Network. He's also a strong candidate to get the Shecky Award for our favorite non player guest this season, despite his affection for the ever loathsome New Jersey Devils. It's our old pal Matt Verde. Rom. How are you fella?
- [28:18]
B
Good. If it helps any, I also know the Devils currently. So you know, if that helps, I'm, I'm happy to toss that out there.
- [28:25]
A
Well, listen, expectations are a mother. You know, I have my favorite hockey team, had no expectations. So I'm enjoying the ride so far. That's. I guess that's the distinction. And I guess the world order has kind of flipped since we both started watching hockey, but. All right, let's talk about pro football, shall we? Doing great work out on the road for Sports Illustrated and otherwise. Always essential stuff for a self identifying pro football fan is the work of Erduram on Sports Illustrated and beyond. And first question before we dig into these pivotal games, and there are some real juicy ones, so many of those big games are going to be played by ancient rivals. You have the Bears and Packers, I would say maybe the best 20th century NFL rival. And that rivalry and then the best 21st century rivalry is Steelers, Ravens. You have Broncos, Raiders from the afl, Colts and Jags, Rams and Cards, Chiefs and Texans, which is two teams that both were called Texans at one point or another. And if you blur your eyes, the team that replaced or moved on from Houston to go to Tennessee, they're the Oilers, who used to be division rivals of the Browns. So in a way that still is resonating there. What's your favorite of them?
- [29:38]
B
The game I'm most excited to see is probably Packers Bears just because the Bears are improved and also kind of on a magic carpet ride. And then the Packers. Good luck figuring out the Packers. What week is it? Right. And I've gotten to cover some packers games this year in person and they've, they've been on the opposite ends of the spectrum. In both those games I saw him crush Washington as long for seven points against Philadelphia. That game probably intrigues me the most. Colts Jags is interesting too from the standpoint of look like the Colts are in free fall if they lose that game. Sure, like absolute, like may not make the playoffs free fall. So that's fascinating as well. And you have two quarterbacks in that game that like for different reasons are really interesting. So I'm interested in all of them. But those two are probably like the one o' clock and then the four o' clock games that I'll be honed in on the most.
- [30:33]
A
I have some questions around those games specifically as we dig into them. I'll get to those very quickly though. The other one I left off is Dolphins Jets. Does that count Mike Fuentes as one of our Miami representatives in football America? Are the jets as good as it gets for the Dolphins in terms of a rivalry?
- [30:52]
D
I mean this is dating back. It's mostly because of New Yorkers that have moved down here.
- [30:56]
A
So.
- [30:57]
D
But I'm sure there was a moment in time way before Mike Fuentes, this time where this was actually a game that mattered. But basically you've been, you know, one, you know, it's just been bad. It's not really worth mentioning.
- [31:10]
A
Well, I when I think about rivalries and what makes them work through the decades is when they happen to both be playing for something important at the same time. Otherwise, if it's one team always kicking the crap out of the other for a generation, it doesn't have much juice to it and diverter arms point. I think this bears Packers 1 feels real good because it feels like it hasn't been relevant very much this century. But in fact I Mean, I think about the Jay Cutler game getting replaced in the, in the title game. And were it not for the BJ Raj pick, we might be talking about Aaron Rodgers never having gotten to a Super. Super Bowl.
- [31:45]
B
Sure. I mean, well, yeah, to your point though, right? Like, the packers were a dynasty in the 60s. The Bears were good in the early 60s, but then were awful. They both were terrible in the 70s. The Bears were good in the 80s. The, the. And at times great. The packers were terrible, and then it flipped. Since then, the packers have been really good. The Bears about, like, pockets of being good, but, like, by and large, haven't been that good. I also think this is a real interesting measuring stick game. Like, the Bears have won all these games up until the Philly game. To their credit, Philly game matters. But all these games gets, like, the Bengals and the Giants and all these games where they're barely winning, like beating J.J. mcCarthy, and it's like, okay, yeah, you're winning, but as Ben Johnson himself said this week, it's kind of in spite of your quarterback. It's kind of in spite of your passing game, like, he's not playing well. If you watch these games and the Philly game, they win. And fair or not, I still think there are some people who go, yeah, sure, but Philadelphia is like, the entire city is apparently ready to fire the offensive coordinator. Like, I don't know what that means. This is a huge game in the sense of the Bears win this game, they're probably going to the division. Like they are. They're in the driver's seat. Or is it the packers win this game? I think you'd certainly see them. They're in the driver's seat to win the division. Yeah, they've got to go back in a couple of weeks and play at Chicago. But you look at the packers and say, okay, well, they'll. They'll have swept Detroit and they'll be, you know, having the early win on Chicago. They still play Minnesota. If you're the packers, this is an opportunity. You've been the seventh seed the last two years. Can you win this game? You could be the one seed. You get a minimum, probably the two seed.
- [33:20]
A
Right.
- [33:21]
B
Like, enormous opportunity for both these teams.
- [33:24]
A
And, you know, I talked about it at the start of this week, and I'm a broken record about it all season long. But the number one seed is not everything, but it's pretty close to everything. If you buy the notion that these games, that the difference between all the teams in the playoffs at this point are, Are Negligible, then playing one less game should mean everything. Of course, the pat, I think people get sideways teams, even players get sideways about that reality. Like, let's just get into the tournament. But on the other side of it awaits the, the grim fact that if you're playing three games, you're way less likely to wind up playing in the.
- [34:02]
B
Super bowl, no question. And if you're the packers, right, like I always think too, it depends on who you are. Like if you're the packers, if you get the Rams at Lambeau, that's a hell of a lot different than playing them in Sofi, right? Like that game's in 2 degree weather. That matters if you know. And the same is true for the Bears to their credit. Like if they were to somehow get the one seed, like that matters. It matters where that game is played a lot, you know. Now look, if you're, if you're the Houston Texans, maybe it doesn't matter as much based on the fact like anybody coming in there. Okay, fine, it's in a dome. Although again, the reverse is true if you're Houston, you hell of all rather play that game at home in a dome than you would go in a Buffalo, right? So like, I do think it matters a lot. You know, home field maybe isn't quite as pronounced as it used to be for some, for variety of reasons. But yeah, team like the packers playing at home is a massive deal. That is a massive, massive deal if you can do it.
- [34:55]
A
Don't get me, don't get me upset. Vertirom you're up there in Chicagoland. I used to be up there. I was in Pittsburgh. And the seating on purpose of the advantage of that the football gods gave you forever or as long as you wanted to keep it was to not dome your stadium. And how even the Vikings didn't learn the lesson after all those games in the 70s against the pretty boys from LA coming up to play in the old Met. And they would always win, the Vikings. Somehow they processed all that. Like, yeah, but let's put a dome on this. It'll be comfier for our fans when I don't even think a lot of fans even want that. I think fans like that shared experience of it. 0 degrees for us in the stands and the guys down on the field.
- [35:40]
B
Yeah, I agree. I think domes are the scourge of the year. I the fact that the Browns are going to put a dome on their stadium is just so worse. No, it doesn't matter because they don't play in the Playoffs anyway, you know, they're the Browns, it's irrelevant. They might as well put a dome on it, not let anybody in. That is actually how they probably get public money approval is if they told everybody, listen, we'll build the stadium. We're not going to allow you in to watch this. But yeah, I agree. Like, I think some of these teams, like, I think the Bills did a good job in a sense. Look, they left it open air, right? It's going to cover the fans, but it's open air. But some of these teams like Minnesota, Detroit, building a dome strategy.
- [36:18]
A
When you watch a snow football game, it's the greatest thing you've ever seen in your life. Like, let's get rid of that. Can't have that anymore. You know what, I'm getting upset. Even though it's frigid where you are. It's nice and warm outside here in la, by the way. But okay, let's get into it. And we'll start at number six with the NFL Countdown, the most consequential games, who's going to win them and by how much. And we'll start with we'll do a six pack this week. You mentioned the Eagles against the Chargers. Chargers plus three in this one. Forty and a half at the time of this recording. How do you see this one playing out?
- [36:48]
B
This game to me is this is the hardest game to pick of the week because I like Philadelphia, but I like him because Herbert is one hand right now and the tackles are so bad for the. In fact, really the whole offensive line is so bad for the Chargers, but they have to backup offensive tackles, obviously. I just wonder in this game, this is a big fan Joe game where Fangio just basically schemes up, hey, look, we can, we can take you away. You know, we can take away what we need to take away is going. We can put the gene on the conkey and we can, we can create some pressure against this line. They've lost two in a row. It kind of feels like there's ever a back to the wall type of game here. Philadelphia, this game's it. Because you look, we don't know what's going to happen. Obviously we're recording on a Thursday morning like the Lions, if they lose to Dallas and Philadelphia loses, you're tied in the lost column with four games left like it is. It is imperative if you feel you win. The other thing with this game is you do wonder with the Chargers, like with Herbert, I know it's his left hand going to be a lot harder to get him under center, it's going to be a lot harder to run certain plays, right. He's going to have to hand off everything with his right hand. Like, you know, what about ball security? What if he takes a sack, which with that offensive line you expect he's going to take a few of them. Can you hold on to the ball as well? Like a fumble here, a bot snap that, that could be the game. So I like Philadelphia a little healthier.
- [38:16]
And I just think a better team, but, you know, look, it's going to be a game played out of desperation. Charges have to win too. I mean, the Chargers, their schedule the rest of the year is brutal. It's one of the hardest schedules in football. No easy games. So it's a big one for both sides. Plus, we all know this is going to be a home game for Philly.
- [38:33]
A
And I do feel I. Because as you know, I'm. I'm one of society's great empaths. My heart goes out to Jim Harbaugh because the entire premise was what was aligned to pay off right now in his second season. And you lose both of your tackles, obviously it's going to diminish how far you can carry things. I think the Eagles are the better team given the personnel they're going to have available. Although they're missing a significant tackle themselves. I'll take the Eagles by at least four in this one. At number five, it's the Colts, it's the Jags. The Jags are plus one and a half, 48 and a half at the time of this recording. Verderom, how say you?
- [39:11]
B
So I like Jacksonville because Indianapolis, it feels like we're kind of hitting an inflection point with the Coltson right now. Jones is literally playing on a broken leg. And I know Jack Youngblood did it way back when. Daniel Jones is not Jack Youngblood. And I've watched every snap of the Colts over the last four or five, six weeks. Jones right now, he cannot move. I mean, he physically, understandably cannot move. So that's a big problem. Jacksonville has some edge rushers that matter. I would expect them to employ them in this game and deploy them in this game. Sauce Gardner being out, you just traded two first round picks for this guy. So you could do all kinds of things on defense. Now you can't without him out there. Now you can attack their side of the field. It makes Ward less valuable. It makes Kenny more or less valuable because you can just go with that side. You can cut the field in half and just go that way. And Buckner being out is another huge deal. Since Buckner's been out, they've not been the same team defensively. And so you combine all those things. Look, the fear you have in this game if you're picking Jacksonville is Trevor Lawrence. He's been awful this season and you just wonder like, is he going to have one of those games that you had against the Cardinals with four turnovers? He's just a disaster. But if I'm, if I'm Liam Cohen, my entire game plan is, listen, we're going to run the ball etn. We're going to, we're going to go short with Jacoby Myers. We're going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to move the ball. Brighton Strange, by the way. Also, Jacksonville hasn't lost at home this seems since 2014.
- [40:41]
I, I like Jacksonville on a tight game. I think Jacksonville is going to win the division. I don't think Jacksonville's even the best team in the division, but I think they're going to win it based on the schedule.
- [40:50]
A
I was on the Colts in August. I picked them to win the division. But two weeks ago, looking through the remaining schedules, it was easy to divine that the Jags, who are not as good as the Texans, Texans clearly are going to win the division. Look at what they have left, especially if they handle the Colts here, they have a pretty free ride to, to the division title. Next up, Steelers. I have to point this one out. It's the 21st century rivalry of note. I think we can all agree, and not just for Steelers and Ravens fans. But before we get into it, just a quick reminder in case you're on the fence about this rivalry, in which way you should lean spiritually here, let me just tell you who these two teams are. The Steelers, you understand, are named after the mid century heroes who forged the steel that built the tanks and the ships used to defeat the Nazi scourge. Now, on the other side of things, the Ravens are named after a poem written by a Boston native who married his 13 year old cousin, moved to Baltimore, got drunk and died. So go ahead and root for the Ravens if you want. It's a free country. Just know you're aligning yourself with Mussolini. Have a great time. Stand against freedom. Matt Verde, how say you in this one? You know what, let me just tell you what's going down here. The Ravens are giving six at the time of this recording, 42 and a half. I'll just say it. I got the Ravens 30, 20, 30 to 22. But how say you?
- [42:15]
B
I actually. The Ravens will not cover, but I think they're going to win.
- [42:20]
I gotta tell you, and I hate to say this because I know how die hard of a Steelers fan you are. They are a brutal watch offensively. They are just. I don't know how you watch Rogers every week and not. Not want to just turn the TV off by like the national anthem. It's just his. His intended area, it's per attempt is tied for the lowest in football with Dylan Gabriel. He just doesn't throw the football.
- [42:42]
A
You don't have to tell me what I already know. I'm sick about this.
- [42:45]
B
Well, you know what?
- [42:45]
A
Maybe America, because I told America, I told you 18 months ago how this was going to go and it's gone. Everybody beat the way I said it was going to go. Yeah, he's.
- [42:53]
B
He's terrible. He's not good. Like, look, the worst part of the Aaron Rodgers experience, if you're a Steelers fan, I have to imagine, although you of course would know this, and I'm just guessing, is he will miss a guy by 10 yards and then just start screaming and pouting. It's like, at what point does some receiver just say, you know what, man, why don't you, why don't you come over here and let's have this out right on the sideline? Like, he'll show up every teammate he has and then play like abject crap and then go off in a press conference. You know, like, you're terrible. You're not good. You haven't been good in three years. Like, what. What right do you have to complain about anything? Look, I think the Ravens are struggling as well. Lamar is clearly not 100%. He can't run. He can't run. I know this is off the beaten path. I can't believe they gave Mark Andrews three years. I cannot believe they extended him for three year contract. Mark Andrews has like 300 yards receiving right now. It's unbelievable.
- [43:47]
A
It felt like he was winding it down, winding it down.
- [43:50]
B
It felt like he was laying down like he's 30 years old, he can't play anymore. And they were like, here's 36 million or whatever it was. Look, I think they'll win, but I gotta tell you, I don't believe in the Ravens either. Like, the Ravens to me are just kind of treading water. Zay Flowers is the only weapon they have in the passing game. Like, I think they win because I just don't think Pittsburgh can score. But I'll take Baltimore at a 24 to 20, something like that.
- [44:17]
A
All right, moving on at number three. You mentioned we're talking about the AFC North. I think the Ravens are still going to get it, but the Bengals are right there all of a sudden. I think they. I think they need a split between the Ravens and Steelers to have a real shot here. They're in Buffalo. In the meantime, the. The bills are giving five and a half. 53 and a half is the total. It looks like T. Higgins is tracking the play as much as. As that playoff game between these two teams in Buffalo. What was it three years ago in the snow looms now, all that. I think James Cook continues his role. So I'm going to take the bills by a touchdown. 34, 27. How say you?
- [44:58]
B
I think the Bills win the Bengals cover. Look, I like, I agree with you. Like, I've got my Friday preview file coming out for SI where I preview like the five best games, obviously, games we're going over right now. And my matchup to watch that game was Cook against the front seven. Because the Bengals just can't stop anybody. I mean, that. That to me is the problem. I just can't get past Cincinnati. They can't stop anyone from running the football. And James Cook is having the best year of anybody not named Jonathan Taylor running the football. And also, oh, by the way, Josh Allen is pretty good with his legs.
- [45:30]
The. The path for Cincinnati in this game, not kidding, no snark is any score, 45 points like that. It's just Burrow just goes absolutely berserk against the Bills who can't stop anybody. And it just becomes one of these games where the Bengals get, you know, two stops or something and they win 45 to 42 or some crazy game like that. The thing that does worry me a little with Buffalo's Allen turns the ball for a lot all of a sudden, like, we've kind of gone back to Josh Allen from a couple years ago where it's like every game he gives away one or two balls.
- [46:04]
But I think because of the third, the Thursday night, Thanksgiving night game, we're kind of overlooking the flaws that the Bengals have. The Bengals had five turnovers given to him in that game. That's not going to typically happen.
- [46:18]
Burrow's awesome. That offense is really, really good. But, dude, that defense is one of the worst defenses I've ever seen. And I just. Going into Buffalo feels like a game where Burrow could throw for 350 and three touchdowns. And they still. It was like somewhat going away. So I'LL take the Bills to win.
- [46:34]
A
You know, it's funny just to give you a quick compliment retroactively from two, three years ago. I think one of the very first times we talked was you pointed out the guy who is the secret sauce of the Bengals is Lou Annarumo, and for some reason they canned him and he lands in Indy. And as I predicted, that was the reason I picked the Colts above all else was that was the complimentary situation available to them with Ann Arumo turning that defense borderline. You know, dominant is maybe a little bit too much. But they, the early returns were pretty good, but without sauce. I'm with you on all that. But anyway, there the Bengals are doing weird stuff once again showing the door to. To one of the brightest DCs in the league. Okay. At number two, the Houston Texans, who maybe do have the best defense going right now against your Kansas City Chiefs, who are giving three and a half in arrowhead. 41 and a half. I, you know, I get the specific concern at the line of scrimmage, the deteriorated Casey O. Line against that pass rush and all of that, but Casey's only lost once in Arrowhead. I'm going to try and thread the needle here. 2120. The Chiefs get it.
- [47:51]
B
Yeah. I got to be honest. Excuse me. I got to be honest. I don't know what to expect in this game from the standpoint that it feels like. Well, it doesn't feel like the Chiefs can't get a pass rush. I mean, they just can't do anything. They're paying Jones and Carl off, this $55 million a year between them, and they. Nobody gets home. I mean, Jones does occasionally. He's been better than his stats would indicate. Carloftis has been good. Everybody else is basically you and me trying to get a pass rush. I mean, it's just unbelievable how bad everybody else is. He's got a blitz nonstop try to get pressure, which, as you saw against Dallas, doesn't always work.
- [48:28]
I would say that I would pick Kansas City for one reason, and that is the fact that Mahomes is the best quarterback statistically under pressure in the league. And if there's one guy in this game who can just say, look, I don't care, like, I will just. I will evade it. I will run out of it. I will run a throw on horizontal. It doesn't matter. I'll just. I mean, this is a spot where it feels like champions usually find a way to win these games. And it feels like, like basically, statistically, if they Win these next two games, they'll probably make the playoffs because they have the Titans and the Raiders two of their last three games.
- [49:02]
I always say this about New England over the years. I'm not going to bet against them. I've just seen them win too many games like this where everybody's like, oh, I don't think they can win this game. And that usually is when they play their best football. I think they will win by a field goal. I think Houston covers. I think they'll win like 20 to 17, 23 to 20. And we all walk away going, well, thank God for them. They have Mahomes because she's the reason they won the game.
- [49:24]
D
Well, that's a.
- [49:25]
A
So we. So we agree. Almost exactly. This one's going under. The Chiefs win it and don't cover at number one. It's where we started. It's the Bears, it's the Packers. It's a glorious rivalry with big stakes this time around. The packers laying six and a half. 44 and a half is the total verderom choose.
- [49:44]
B
I like the packers to win in the COVID I. I don't think it's ball by any means. I think it's a good touchdown. You know, 27, you know, 21, 27, 20, something like that.
- [49:55]
Look, I think the packers are just a better team. The concern that I have, I guess I wrote about this game in the Friday preview is Caleb Williams. His splits when he's not under pressure and when he is, they're staggering. Like his splits are unbelievable. And they have Micah Parsons on the other side of the field. And Rashawn Gary is pretty good player too. I just, I think Parsons in this game. Look, the Bears strength in their offensive lines are interior. It is not their tackles. This is not a game if you're the Bears, you want to struggle at tackle and be great inside. It's just, it's a problem. It's a bad matchup.
- [50:34]
I also wonder in a game like this, like, not that the packers have championship pedigree, but they've been in a lot of big games over the last few years. The Bears have not. And their credit, they won that game in Philly, but Williams was terrible. They won the game because they rushed for like 250 yards. They're not going to rush for 20 yards against Green Bay. That's not going to happen. And so look, I think the Bears give a representative effort. I don't think it's a blowout, but I think love makes enough plays. I love the way he played against the Lions on Thanksgiving. I thought he made some big time throws when they needed them. I just think the packers are a little too much for the Bears. So I'll take the, I'll take the pack by a, by a touchdown.
- [51:12]
A
I'm with you. And Ben Johnson is a miracle worker. As we foretold before the season kicked off, the Lions would go down the, the, the Bears would ascend. The one thing I don't know that he's ever going to be able to fix is Caleb Williams is just inaccurate. He's too deep into playing football to, to, to suddenly turn into a sharpshooter. Anyway, listen, sharpshooter name Vertirom. Make sure you're checking out his game picks, all his other work on Sports Illustrated, again, the Matt Verderom show and that football show on KC Sports Network. Keep up the great work. I know how busy you are. We appreciate the time, pally. All right, there he goes. And here we go. Too quickly though, a note to make for you if you're interested in our championship Saturday picks. We made him with our old pal Ryan Shazier. His Buckeyes versus my Hoosiers, one of the big games there. It's available exclusively on YouTube. Football America. Check it out, won't you? We really appreciate it. Spread the good word. We'll be back on the other side of the football weekend to try and make sense of it for you. Until then, for all the fellas here on Football America, thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.