The Sorsby Saga (feat. Albert Breer)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

"The Sorsby Saga" (feat. Albert Breer)

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

Broadcast from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and company—joined by NFL insider Albert (Bert) Breer and recurring guests Kent Brown, Dave Dameshek, Matt Verderam, and others—deliver their signature blend of sports commentary, football deep-dives, pop culture banter, and comedic asides. This episode’s central theme is the ongoing saga of quarterback Brendan Sorsby, his gambling controversy, and the landscape-shifting implications for the NFL supplemental draft. The discussion spans across sports: the state of the Steelers, the Browns’ future, the enduring value of legendary franchises, and timely cultural debates.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Honoring Sports Jersey #66 (02:00–03:27)

• The episode opens with the tradition of discussing great athletes to wear the episode’s number—in this case, #66.
  • Notables: Ray Nitschke (NFL), Alan Faneca (Steelers), Don Zimmer (MLB), Yasiel Puig, and especially Mario Lemieux (NHL), lauded as an all-time franchise icon.
  • Quote:
    • “It’s Mario Lemieux, obviously number 66, the greatest hockey player in the history of people.” – Dave Dameshek (03:21)
  • Lemieux is linked to Pittsburgh team loyalty; return of Penguins' Geno Malkin is celebrated as a rare feat in the free agency era.
  • Shohei Ohtani’s once-in-a-lifetime MLB feats are echoed as generationally defining.

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2. Shohei Ohtani’s Dominance & Underappreciation (04:00–05:15)

• The crew marvels at Ohtani’s dual-dominance: lowest ERA, home runs, and night-to-night excellence on both sides of the ball.
  • “Why isn’t this what we’re talking about 80% of the time?” – Dave Dameshek (04:24)
  • “None holds a candle to this cat.” – Albert Breer, on Ohtani vs. MLB legends (04:36)
• Discussion likens Ohtani’s coverage to NBA regular season’s fading spotlight until playoffs.

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3. NFL Landscape: Supplemental Draft & Brendan Sorsby Saga (09:09–15:38)

• Brendan Sorsby Situation:
  • Major news: QB Brendan Sorsby is in limbo due to alleged betting on games, raising comparisons to Pete Rose and becoming a potential precedent-setting case.
  • NFL/NCAA tangle: Sorsby’s eligibility hinges on a Lubbock court injunction; his entry to the supplemental draft and follow-up disciplinary action are both uncertain.
  • Historical context: previous high-profile supplemental QBs: Steve Walsh (1989), Bernie Kosar (1984), Terrelle Pryor in 2011 (with precedent for NCAA-initiated suspension matched by the NFL).
  • Quote:
    • “Betting on your own team is sort of a cardinal sin in sports, and it really calls the entire construct of the sport into question.” – Kent Brown (13:37)
  • Jeffrey Kessler represents Sorsby—a known adversary of leagues in collective bargaining disputes—heightening the stakes for the NFL.
  • Some evaluators put Sorsby on par with projected top-5 picks of 2027 like Arch Manning.

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4. What NFL Teams Might Do with Sorsby (15:38–16:49)

• Teams like the Jets, Dolphins, Cardinals, and Browns avoided taking a QB high in the last draft, positioning themselves to consider Sorsby.
  • Quote:
    • “I think those teams all become teams to watch.” – Kent Brown (16:14)
  • The complicated calculus of talent vs. integrity—some will consider him; others treat gambling as a “non-starter.”

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5. State of the Browns & Miles Garrett Trade Speculation (16:26–20:49)

• Alarm bells: Face of franchise (Miles Garrett) hasn’t met new coach Todd Monken by May—a rare situation.
• The Browns’ youth movement and potential misalignment of timelines with Garrett’s prime years prompt trade rumors.
  • Rebuilding strategy: Could Cleveland accelerate with trade returns now rather than waiting several years.
  • Possible bidder teams: Bills, Ravens, Bears, Rams, Eagles.
  • Historical precedent: Declining trade returns for veteran stars (Khalil Mack, Stefon Diggs) vs. potential haul now.

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6. Steelers in Transition: QB Room, Roster Philosophy, and Mike McCarthy’s Impact (20:49–29:30)

• The core issue: Steelers’ resistance to rebuilding, opting instead for another ‘win now’ swing even with an aging roster and new coach (Mike McCarthy).
• QB conundrum: Rodgers, Will Howard, Drew Aller, Mason Rudolph—will they carry four? Unlikely. Dameshek skeptical of upside for any, notes long-shot odds for non–first-round quarterbacks.
  • “No $40-plus-million guy besides Tom Brady has ever gotten to a Super Bowl.” – Dave Dameshek (25:42)
• The Franz of trying to bridge eras instead of clear-cut rebuilding; emphasis on the rarity of late-round gems like Brock Purdy.
  • “At that position, guys just don’t slip through the cracks the way they used to.” – Matt Verderam (28:21)

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7. The Quarterback League: Taking Swings & Development Philosophies (29:30–32:51)

• Positive take on continuously drafting QBs, even as late-round gambles, with examples like Russell Wilson, Brock Purdy.
• Browns’ approach: Taking multiple swings—Watson, Shador Sanders, Dylan Gabriel—applauded as necessary until the ‘guy’ is found.

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8. McCarthy vs. Tomlin: Floor vs. Ceiling (33:54–36:24)

• Dameshek: “Should we not just be assuming the Steelers meet their usual level of, you know, nine wins or whatever? Is that somehow in jeopardy because of this change?”
  • Kent Brown’s “blind test” of coaches’ records underscores that McCarthy is more accomplished than public perception implies.
  • Conversation about public/media anti-Pittsburgh bias, with Dameshek listing movie examples where Pittsburgh is always the team or city to suffer.

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9. Journalism, Sports Culture, and Public Discourse (37:13–41:51)

• Reflection on the state of sports journalism, prompted by Le Batard’s recent comments and Breer’s career trajectory.
  • Historical icons referenced: Boston Globe, SI, Gammons, Ryan.
  • “It’s our job to create a record of everything that's going on." – Matt Verderam (38:57)
• Changes in how audiences consume content: From newspapers and SI in the mailbox to digital, social, video, podcasts.

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10. Understanding the Supplemental Draft (46:14–49:14)

• Explanation of supplemental draft: Three lottery tiers, blind picks, loss of next year's corresponding pick if selected player is drafted.
  • Quote:
    • “Let’s do every draft that way.” – Ethan (46:51)
  • Historical example: Browns’ aggressive move for Bernie Kosar in 1985, giving multiple high picks to land the top spot.

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11. New York Mania & Championship Cultural Weight (49:23–50:23)

• The crew discusses how a Knicks title would “move the earth” in NYC; unique cultural resonance versus other sports or cities.
  • “Amin Elhassan declares that a title in New York is worth 100 anywhere else.” – Dameshek quoting Amin (49:55)
  • “Nothing would match the Knicks [winning]; the city will burn to the ground and they will not know. They will have nothing left.” – Ethan (50:22)
• The influence of NYC on national sports consciousness is debated.

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12. The Jackson Dart Political Debate: Athletes, Activism, and Decency (50:54–55:15)

• Jackson Dart’s introduction of the President at a rally draws divided reactions.
  • Parallels drawn to Kaepernick’s protests and Chris Long’s support for Malcolm Jenkins (with a replayed quote from Chris Long at 51:56–52:48).
  • “I do think … we are less decent than we’ve ever been as a country.” – Chris Long (52:13)
  • Crew argues about generational expectations: young athletes are often thrown into the spotlight without full self-awareness or mature context.

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13. Free Speech, Celebrity Influence, and Social Consequences (53:13–56:07)

• Athletes as cultural figures: Historic examples (Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson) who openly endorsed candidates or took political stances.
• Reminder that “free speech is free kind of, but it does have consequences to it." – Dave Dameshek (54:47)
• The importance of being able to articulate reasoning behind public positions—if athletes use their voice, they should be prepared for public scrutiny and repercussions.

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14. Closing Reflections

• Final thoughts seal the show’s primary themes: the ongoing quest for the right quarterback, the cultural weight of New York titles, the shifting sands of journalism and public discourse, and the importance (and dangers) of using one’s platform.
  • “You’ve got to take swings, you’ve got to keep taking swings.” – Dameshek (48:42)
  • “I don’t know if I made any sense there. I’m trying to make sense of this divided reality in which we live. But I do appreciate Bert Breer for joining us for a little conversation amidst all that’s going on here.” – Dameshek (56:42)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Betting on your own team is sort of a cardinal sin in sports, and it really calls the entire construct of the sport into question.”
  — Kent Brown, on Sorsby’s gambling case (13:37)
• “Why isn’t this what we’re talking about 80% of the time?”
  — Dave Dameshek, on Shohei Ohtani’s feats (04:24)
• “No $40-plus-million guy besides Tom Brady has ever gotten to a Super Bowl.”
  — Dave Dameshek (25:42)
• “You have to keep taking swings. … I disagree with what you just said. … Brock Purdy is, you know, Mr. Irrelevant.”
  — Albert Breer (28:57–29:05)
• “I do think … we are less decent than we’ve ever been as a country.”
  — Chris Long (52:13)
• “Amin Elhassan declares that a title in New York is worth 100 anywhere else.”
  — Dameshek quoting Amin (49:55)

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Important Timestamps

• #66/Jersey Number Segment: 02:00–03:27
• Shohei Ohtani conversation: 04:00–05:15
• Brendan Sorsby/NFL gambling & supplemental draft: 09:09–15:38
• QB/Team draft strategies: 16:14–16:49; 20:49–32:51
• Mike McCarthy vs Tomlin/Steelers future: 33:54–36:24
• Journalism & media evolution: 37:13–41:51
• Supplemental Draft details: 46:14–49:14
• NYC/Knicks cultural impact: 49:23–50:23
• Jackson Dart/athlete activism & Chris Long audio: 50:54–55:15
• Free speech, platform, consequences: 53:13–56:07

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Tone & Style

The episode flows with the show's trademark mix of deep sports analysis, pop culture references, recurring running gags about Pittsburgh’s cinematic persecution, and quick-witted group chemistry. The guests remain conversational, occasionally irreverent, but pivot smoothly to serious topics such as integrity in sports, journalism’s mission, and social divides. The balance between humor, nostalgia, and insight makes the episode both entertaining and substantive.

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Listeners’ Takeaway:
For those who missed the episode, the heart of "The Sorsby Saga" isn’t just a football ethics debate—it’s a dense, lively exploration of sports’ intersection with culture, history, and public responsibility. The supplemental draft’s drama, shifting franchise philosophies, sports journalism’s evolution, and the power and perils of the modern athlete’s platform are all on full display, with candor and wit from one of the most dynamic panels in sports radio.

Transcript

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[Dave Dameshek]

The hell is going on? I thought after Memorial Day and up

[Albert Breer]

until August, nothing was supposed to happen in football.

[Dave Dameshek]

Au contraire. We have our pal from Sports Illustrated,

[Albert Breer]

Brad Bird Breer, coming up in just a second to fill us in on everything, including Jackson Dart, Brendan Sorsby, the state of the Steelers, all the rest of it.

[Dave Dameshek]

Plus there's basketball, there's hockey.

[Albert Breer]

Let's get into it.

[Dave Dameshek]

Let's start the show. Yes. Hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America, presented as ever by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours. And like I said, Bert Brer.

[Albert Breer]

In just a second, I want to talk about the Knickerbockers. They're in the finals.

[Kent Brown]

Who?

[Albert Breer]

They're going to play tbd Stanley Cup Final. Poor people in Buffalo. Oh, those poor souls up there.

[Dave Dameshek]

In the meantime, it's episode 66. Let's do it.

[Albert Breer]

The episode. As we do with every episode, we honor the player in football, nay sports history, who Wore it best. 66, Gino Fuentes. Welcome back after a week away. How are you? And tell us, who is that person?

[Gino Fuentes]

Well, we got some Steelers here. We got Alan Fanica is number six. We got Ray Nitschke. How do you say niche? How do you say that? There's like five consonants in a row.

[Albert Breer]

Nitschke.

[Gino Fuentes]

Nitschke. Five time NFL champion. Ethan had one that sort of.

[Ethan]

Yeah, from baseball.

[Dave Dameshek]

Dave 66, bald headed guy.

[Albert Breer]

Also was in, you know, with the movie, with Burt Reynolds, Mean Machine, they remade it with Adam.

[Mike]

Longest Yard is the name of the movie.

[Albert Breer]

Longest Yard. Sheesh.

[Gino Fuentes]

There's a baseball one too, right?

[Dave Dameshek]

I don't remember the name of the movie, but I know, I know the name of the guy who plays middle linebacker, who Burt Reynolds throws the football into in his balls two plays in a row.

[Albert Breer]

And his name is Ray Nitschke.

[Ethan]

Dave, we've got some really good ones from baseball too. We've got Don Zimmer famously thrown to the ground by Pedro Martinez. And of course, how can we not remember Yasio Puig? That's the only one answer, right? He's the guy who wore six to

[Dave Dameshek]

live a couple of blocks away from me. But that's not the correct answer.

[Gino Fuentes]

I think that's it, right?

[Ethan]

That's the only one I can think of. That's the only one I can think of.

[Albert Breer]

Let me name for you the individual who has meant more to his franchise than any other human being has ever meant to any other franchise.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's Mario lemieux, obviously number 66, the greatest hockey player in the history of people.

[Albert Breer]

Good news there too for the Pittsburgh Penguins. Geno Malkin inks a year long deal. So he's back.

[Dave Dameshek]

Remarkable stuff.

[Albert Breer]

We're so cynical as sports fans these

[Dave Dameshek]

days, but I think we can all

[Albert Breer]

take a minute to say, man, especially in free agency or any other time really, that there's not one guy who's going to make it 21 years with one franchise, but three Geno Malkin and Sidney Crosby and Chris Letang teammates sat

[Dave Dameshek]

wearing the same uniform for more than two decades. Remarkable stuff.

[Albert Breer]

But like I've said before, you need to look no further than the headlines to realize that most people are too cynical to acknowledge greatness. We're watching Shohe Ohtani and like I say, greatest in the history of people. Shohe Ohtani is in fact that in Major League Baseball.

[Dave Dameshek]

Do we agree on that?

[Albert Breer]

Is that, is that hyperbolic or is that settled at this point?

[Dave Dameshek]

On Wednesday night, six scoreless or not

[Albert Breer]

scoreless innings, but six. Six innings. He gets the win as the pitcher.

[Dave Dameshek]

Seven strikeouts, plus he hit a home run. Why isn't this what we're talking about about 80% of the time? We're talking about sports right now. This is the, the, the lore of baseball is pretty, pretty heavy.

[Albert Breer]

From Babe Ruth to Willie Mays and Barry Bonds and all that, none holds a candle to this cat.

[Gino Fuentes]

This might be his most impressive year for me just because he, I turn around and he's got the lowest ERA in baseball after having a 50.

[Ethan]

It's under one. It's, it's, it's under one. His ERA is under one this season. It's unbelievable. I didn't even realize it.

[Dave Dameshek]

Dave.

[Ethan]

I'll be honest. Haven't tuned into baseball quite yet. Still waiting for the hockey playoffs to be over. But once I do turn into baseball. Wow, you're telling me. Shohei Ohtani has an ERA under one. What the hell are we talking about here?

[Mike]

It's kind of like, you know, basketball doesn't start until after the all Star break because that's when. That's.

[Gino Fuentes]

That's when football.

[Kent Brown]

Football's over.

[Albert Breer]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Then correct. Oh, Super Bowl's over. What basketball's been going on. That's crazy.

[Dave Dameshek]

Yeah. I guess in another week or two,

[Albert Breer]

if he can continue this level both on the hump and in the at the dish, then maybe basketball and hockey fans will start paying a little bit more attention.

[Dave Dameshek]

I want to talk about the Knickerbockers

[Albert Breer]

and the meaning of that in New York and to the sports world at large. And Jackson Dart is making noise up there as well. But first, I want to dig in on all the NFL news, and there is a surprising amount of it with one of the best in the business,

[Dave Dameshek]

our old pal from NFL Network. Here comes Bird Breer.

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[Kent Brown]

I'm the most disorganized person on the planet.

[Albert Breer]

Everything takes a lot of guts to say that. Takes a lot of guts to say that. And that's why we're bringing him back. He is the bearer of the crown jewel of Sports Illustrated's NFL kingdom, the

[Dave Dameshek]

ruler of of Monday morning qb. The best pal of Connor or his

[Albert Breer]

producer is one Kent Brown from Wilmerding, Pennsylvania. That's right, and he is an Ohio State guy trying to figure out where

[Dave Dameshek]

his Buckeyes go and Kurt Signetti's Big Ten empire. It's our old pal from the NFL Network, Bert Nay. Albert Brear. What's happening, fella? How you been?

[Kent Brown]

Well, enjoy that while you can because I don't know how much longer it's going to be Kurt Signetti's Big Ten, but right now it certainly is.

[Albert Breer]

Hey, Bert, first things first. You and I started at the NFL. I'm pretty sure it was the same year we did. And you were doing a remote and I was at home base and I referred to you.

[Dave Dameshek]

They said, let's get it out to New England Foxborough, where Albert Breer is standing by. And I said, hey, Bert, what's happening? And when the segment ended, everybody went crazy. Like, how dare you insult Albert like that? And I said, I'm trying to do him a solid. I think Bert Brear sounds like a

[Albert Breer]

mid century gumshoe or something.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's Bert Brear over here. Or are you okay with it years later? Were you offended at the time I first called you?

[Kent Brown]

No, that's all my childhood friends call me.

[Dave Dameshek]

Sure.

[Kent Brown]

That. I thought you knew that. Like, I thought you had some inside sources on that.

[Matt Verderam]

Like, that's what my childhood friends call me.

[Kent Brown]

So I, my thing is, I just never correct anybody. So some people call me Bert, other people call me Albert. I'm fine either way. I just, I don't know, I never, you know, I hear people get offended when you refer to them the wrong way. Like, I love Matthew Stafford, but I heard Kelly Stafford got offended by people calling Matthew Stafford Matt. Like, I just never have. Like, I don't, I really, like, don't correct people.

[Matt Verderam]

So maybe I should, I don't know. And clear up any confusion on that.

[Dave Dameshek]

I just think it sounds cooler. Like I say, I just think this, this helps you.

[Albert Breer]

You could you get a.

[Dave Dameshek]

Appear in a Billy Wilder movie if

[Albert Breer]

you, if you play your cards right.

[Dave Dameshek]

Yeah, I mean, I've told, I told Rich Eisen, like, you know, Rich Eisen, you're doing well.

[Albert Breer]

Dick Eisen. Even cooler, though.

[Kent Brown]

That's. Yeah, that sounds like sort of like old school, like, like 1930s radio announcer. Like the guy who called, the guy who called, like, you know, Babe Ruth games could definitely.

[Dave Dameshek]

He's the bee's knees, everybody, don't you know. Here he comes, everybody. Bert Brer, everybody's ace reporter. He's covering the flight gate.

[Albert Breer]

Yes. I want to show you the, the respect you deserve as somebody who stood out there in that sweltering heat during the scandal of our times, deflate gate

[Dave Dameshek]

and all of that. But now let's move on to a more recent one. You're talking about it in your most

[Albert Breer]

recent pages, which you can find wherever you find. Bert Brer's great work. Sports Illustrated, digitally and otherwise. Brendan Sorsby. We're not talking about Fernando Mendoza. Sounds like you're familiar with the season he.

[Kent Brown]

I am, yeah.

[Matt Verderam]

He had a nice year.

[Albert Breer]

Another IU guy, though, Brendan Sorsby went

[Dave Dameshek]

on and wore the red black in

[Albert Breer]

a couple other places as well.

[Kent Brown]

Now, is that the one Signetti ditched then, didn't he? Ditch?

[Matt Verderam]

I think so.

[Albert Breer]

I think so.

[Kent Brown]

And maybe he knew the trouble was coming.

[Dave Dameshek]

Well, I mean, you did kind of indicate on the side that, that coach Sig.

[Albert Breer]

Right.

[Dave Dameshek]

Let's see if he.

[Albert Breer]

If his empire can exist beyond Fernando. I think the early returns indicate that they probably have a chance of surviving this and bridging the gap. We'll see about that. But Brendan Sorsby was a ne' er do well, apparently putting some bank down. Although it's a little bit of the Pete Rose as manager of his team. At least as long as you're betting against your team. That's the real problem. But either way, how big an issue is this? Let's say, okay, supplement a supplemental draft. He's available to you, you really like him as a football player.

[Dave Dameshek]

How many teams will it be?

[Albert Breer]

All 32 that say we can't have a guy that's engaging in gambling on the games that he's playing in. So it's a non starter for us.

[Kent Brown]

No, I think there's going to be a bunch that'll consider him. And obviously a lot of it's relative to your own quarterback position and, and who you have at that spot. But I think this is as high end a quarterback prospect that's entered the supplemental draft probably since the 80s. You know, you had Steve Walsh in 89.

[Albert Breer]

I remember the Steve Walsh experience.

[Dave Dameshek]

And a lot of people forget that Jimmy Johnson at least sort of kind of hinted that he liked Steve Walsh

[Albert Breer]

better than Troy Aikman in the moment.

[Kent Brown]

Yep, that's right. And then, and then, and then Bernie Kozar before that, of course, in 84 when he steered himself to Cleveland. And so, you know, I think it's, it's interesting because I've talked to people that I think, you know, if you heard their names, you'd really respect Dave, that view him as a potential top five pick in the 27 draft who think that he's up there with arch Manning and C.J. carr and Dante Moore among the guys

[Matt Verderam]

that are going to be competing to

[Kent Brown]

go at the highest end of that draft. And you know, so I think what's in front of teams now, if you

[Matt Verderam]

can get past the gambling issue, is,

[Kent Brown]

you know, an opportunity. Again, if he doesn't get his injunction

[Matt Verderam]

on Monday in Lubbock, you know, we'll see how that goes. But if he doesn't get his injunction,

[Kent Brown]

probably declares the supplemental draft and then the opportunity in front of these teams is maybe I can take care of my quarterback situation now.

[Matt Verderam]

You know, maybe I can take a

[Kent Brown]

guy that would be up there with

[Matt Verderam]

an Arch Manning, with a Dante Moore, with a C.J. carr in 2027, get him in my building early and start working with him now. And maybe I don't even have to spend a first round pick to do it. So I think a lot of it's going to be relative, like how you, how you see him versus the other guys. And you know, I can tell you for a fact teams are already digging in on him and studying him and preparing for the contingency that he does wind up become, become available in the supplemental draft. Now the gambling issue is another piece of it and that, that I think, you know, a lot of that's going to come down to how the league rules on this. There is the Terrell prior precedent from 20 and I think a lot of people forget that the NCAA actually suspended him first and the NFL was matching that suspension. So it was a six game suspension from the ncaa. The NFL didn't want to provide safe harbor for guys who are in situations like Terrell's. So they match the suspension.

[Kent Brown]

You can't really match a banishment, you know. So, you know, I think the first piece of this of course is the NFL accepting him into the supplemental draft if he doesn't get that injunction and then the next piece would be okay, is the NFL just going to let him in or is the NFL going to make him serve some sort of suspension?

[Matt Verderam]

Going to.

[Dave Dameshek]

Well, as far as that goes, are sorry to interrupt you, but do you

[Albert Breer]

get a sense that maybe the league considers Brendan Soares be where he is, sort of a great sacrificial lamb to send a message to all future players who the answer into this situation.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, the answer I think is to at least some degree, yes, because the NCAA is treating this as a precedent setter, which is why they're fighting the way they are. You know, this is, I mean look like we've seen horrible things happen in sports, right? Things that from a human perspective are much worse than this. But betting on your own team is sort of a cardinal sin in sports and it really calls the entire construct of the sport into question.

[Matt Verderam]

And so it becomes an existential thing for, for, for, for the, the big sports leagues and the ncaa.

[Kent Brown]

So the NCAA is, set the precedent here. We're not going to allow this in

[Matt Verderam]

our, in our, in our organization and in our schools. We will not allow this.

[Kent Brown]

So they drew that line, line in the sand and we'll see how the

[Matt Verderam]

courts rule going forward.

[Kent Brown]

The NFL is in an interesting spot

[Matt Verderam]

here because this didn't happen under their watch. And so how do they handle it? And that's where you need to pay attention to who Brendan Soaresby hired. It's Jeffrey Kessler who's like a boogeyman for the pro sports leagues. You know, he has represented the big unions in almost every sport in strikes and lockouts. And so does the NFL want to get into some sort of legal fight with Jeffrey Kessler? You know, and I think what Jeffrey Kessler's argument here would be, well, it didn't happen under your watch and the NFL, you are a trade association. It is up to your companies to determine whether or not this guy is employable. And once he is in our in in your trade association, then you can punish him for things that happen while he's in the trade association. But you can't do it before that. So it's a fascinating case and my guess would be that Sourceby's camp will probably work to come to some sort of resolution with the NFL before you get to any of that. So at least everybody knows the landscape going forward.

[Albert Breer]

Super interesting stuff as we have Fernando Mendoza and Kirk Cousins landing in Sin City and Brendan Soares be going. We'll see somewhere else in pro football.

[Kent Brown]

But I would tell you this on that. Like think about this though, like not

[Matt Verderam]

to cut you off Dave, but like

[Kent Brown]

the jets, the Dolphins, the Cardinals, the Browns, all those teams for the most part kept their powder dry and not taking a quarterback all that high. Like the Cardinals took Carson Beck in the third round, the jets took Click Cade Club Dig in the fourth round. But for the most part those teams kept their powder dry on drafting a quarterback high in 2027. So I think those teams all become

[Matt Verderam]

teams to watch when it comes to.

[Albert Breer]

Well, yeah, those are not high end teams. If I followed the list you just said there's another team that probably should be QB desperate that plays on the banks to the Three Rivers.

[Dave Dameshek]

We'll get to them.

[Albert Breer]

On the other side of that Ohio Pennsylvania border though, some intrigue around Miles Garrett. I thought it was weird that you said a week ago that Todd Monken

[Dave Dameshek]

and Miles Garrett have never met each other. I mean it's May man. What gives here that is that something that we should be shrugging off as

[Albert Breer]

fans or, or, or is that. Or are you struck by the face of the team not having met the new coach who's been around?

[Kent Brown]

I wouldn't shrug it, I wouldn't shrug it off. I mean I can think you just judge them on their actions. Like they had a, a roster bone or an option bonus that was like to be executed in March and they move that back to September now that doesn't really affect the payment of the, of the $29 million much. It just affects the Brown's ability to trade the contract because if they execute that option bonus with the deferred payments in March, they can't undo that. That money's gone. But if it's pushed to September now, they can still trade that chunk of the contract along with the rest of it. So there's that piece of it, you know, there's the June 1st date, which is a big one coming up on Monday. And look like I think from a timeline perspective, if you look at where the Browns are, they've tried to get a lot younger in the wake of the Travis Hunter trade last year. And they did a good job of putting together a rookie kit class last year to serve as the foundation of that with guys like Carson Schlesinger and Mason Graham and Harold Fannin and Quinshawn Judkins. And you know, this year they come back and they add Spencer Fano and Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston. And so my question would be, do the timelines match up? Do the timelines of those guys match up with the timeline of Miles Garrett who's going to turn 31 at the

[Matt Verderam]

end of this year?

[Kent Brown]

And if you say to yourself, well,

[Matt Verderam]

maybe their quarterback isn't on the roster yet in Cleveland, right, the real quarterback

[Kent Brown]

of the future isn't on the roster, well then that means maybe you're not

[Matt Verderam]

a real contender till 27 or 28 when Garrett's going to be 32 or 33.

[Kent Brown]

And now if you try to trade

[Matt Verderam]

them, then the value isn't close to the same as it would be right now.

[Kent Brown]

So whether it happens next week, in a month before the trade deadline, I

[Matt Verderam]

think this is going to be something we're all going to be following. And I do think that there are a lot of teams that would be interested in, in acquiring him. And I do think the Browns could still get a pretty massive return, which I think would, you know, supercharge the it's hard to replace Miles Garrett, don't get me wrong. But you know, having a couple more first round picks, maybe a young player coming in would help to, to really, you know, put a jetpack on that youth movement they've got going.

[Albert Breer]

Well, I mean, just imagine, I mean you can. It's not hard to tick off the

[Dave Dameshek]

teams that feel real close but lack primarily above all other needs, probably a

[Albert Breer]

difference making guy on the edge there. Bills and Ravens, that's an easy list

[Dave Dameshek]

to go through right at the top there.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, I mean The Bears have been looking for a guy opposite Montez Sweat. To me, the Rams are really interesting and they just drafted, they just drafted Ty Simpson in the first round, which means they don't need to worry as much about where we're going to get

[Matt Verderam]

our quarterback in 27 or 28 to

[Kent Brown]

eventually replace Matthew Stafford. I think those picks become more movable for them now and they could give

[Matt Verderam]

you a young edge rusher back because they've got a couple of those.

[Kent Brown]

You know, the, the Eagles are always in these things. Their cap situation is a little tighter, so I'm not sure about them quite as much, but there are definitely teams there that I think would. Would be in the mix. And again, like I would. I would look at it this way, Dave, like if you're a Cleveland and you can get say two ones in a young player form, whatever the, whatever that is, right. What's that going to look like in two years if you try to trade them two years from now, you know, and, and I just think of like Coil Mack, like what he was traded for when he was traded from the, from the Bear, from the Raiders to the Bears and then how much less. Less it was when it was the Bears to the Chargers. You know, what Stefan Diggs was traded for when he went from the Vikings to the Bills and how much. How. How much less it was when it was from the Bills to the Vikings or the. From the Bills to the Texans. Like, I think those are the things

[Matt Verderam]

that you have to consider when you're

[Kent Brown]

looking at something like this and you're

[Matt Verderam]

considering what the Brown strategy might be.

[Albert Breer]

Well, listen, what you also describe a more recent example that should maybe spook the Browns about what happens in two or three years is the Pittsburgh Steelers and the deal they made with TJ Watt 13, 14 months or so ago. I was saying that whether it sounds disloyal or whatever, the Steelers really like the one uniform thing. Me as a Pittsburgh dork also loves that the Legends, its greatest legends, spend their ent careers wearing only black and gold. And that's not just in football. I love that with all the, with all the guys. But it was unwise to ink TJ Watt and there are at least rumors that they're open to trading him. I think that that's probably a non starter based on exactly what you're describing because he is 32. He is what Miles Gary. I mean, they're not the same player, but you're picking up what I'm laying down. He is in fact unmovable. Correct.

[Kent Brown]

I think he'd be hard to move. Yeah, I mean, like, I, and I, I, I think the world of T.J. watt as a player, I know there were teams, I know there were teams that like, like by the end of last year, felt like Alex Highsmith was

[Matt Verderam]

more of a, of an issue for

[Kent Brown]

them when they're game planning against the

[Matt Verderam]

Steelers defense than what was just sort of what it was by the end of the year last year, you know,

[Kent Brown]

And I, and I think that that's.

[Matt Verderam]

It's an interesting strategy the Steelers have taken because to me, the hire of Mike McCarthy was ownership saying, we do not want to sink to the bottom of the league. We do not want to go through a rebuild.

[Kent Brown]

I think most of us on the outside looked at it and, you know, you see some of the older pieces, Jalen Ramsey, Cam Hayward, TJ Watt, you know, even DK Metcalf's got a lot of mileage for a guy who's going

[Matt Verderam]

to be 29 years old. And you, you look at it and you say, okay, like, this is probably the time with Mike Tomlin gone to write the van D off and go and hire a young coach like you always have, whether that be like, you know, Chris Shula or an Israel Evero, whoever. It is, like bringing in a young

[Kent Brown]

coach that would sort of fit the

[Matt Verderam]

mold of what you've always had there. And instead they turn around and they hire a guy who, And I love Mike McCarthy, but did you know that the.

[Kent Brown]

On his first day of work, he

[Matt Verderam]

became the oldest coach in Steelers history. Isn't that incredible?

[Kent Brown]

On his very first day of work. And I think a lot of Mike

[Matt Verderam]

McCarthy is a coach, but that's the reality of it. Like, it was a let's win now. And then you see their actions, right? They got older. They signed Jamel Dean, who's almost 30, to play corner. They signed Michael Pittman, who I think is going into his eighth year, to play receiver. They signed a running back, Enrico Dowdle, who's going into his eighth year. And so, like, I, you know, you could see the wheels turning on Aaron Rodgers coming back, but also, you know, with guys like T.J. watt, you know, you do. You can feel the reluctance to let go of that core. And, you know, I thought last year was going to be the last swing, and that's why I thought it was such a. I thought it was a really good idea to bring in Rogers, because if you're going to take the last swing, like, swing hard, you know. But it seems like they, you know, that last swing is now becoming the second to last swing with these guys.

[Albert Breer]

Well, it's silly and they continue to go into the, you know, it's not trying to, as I always say, fuel the jet at 30,000ft that I resent. In fact, I support that especially in a year to league the idea that that you should take a season off. First of all, look at the teams that have intentionally tanked entire seasons. Did it work out for those teams? No, largely it hasn't.

[Dave Dameshek]

But beyond that, yes, year to year

[Albert Breer]

my misread or based on what you're saying is was and remains McCarthy is there even though he's older than the other QB whisperers out there.

[Dave Dameshek]

He's a guy, you know, a quarter

[Albert Breer]

century into developing quarterbacks and getting the best version of those guys. It makes sense to me to bring him in to develop one of the

[Dave Dameshek]

young guys or a few of the young guys.

[Albert Breer]

The Rogers thing is where it gets sideways to me and I'm disappointed that they're kind of it. You know, there are some there there's a sentiment going around that this is ownership saying we're not taking a season off and that's where the ones who want Aaron Rodgers in there to sort of grease the skids instead of doing the as you say, pull the band aid off and sor of start a kind of soft start a new era with one of the young guys. The problem is that they let all those options come and go.

[Dave Dameshek]

And I you know, you're an Ohio State guy.

[Albert Breer]

I think most football fans know that at this point that Bert Brear is a diehard with the Buckeyes. So you know Will Howard on a couple of levels here. I think the thing that Steelers fans need to understand is Will Howard might work out, Drew Aller might work out,

[Dave Dameshek]

but both of them are big long shots. Mike McCarthy might be able to develop

[Albert Breer]

one or both of them but it's highly unlikely. The swings to take.

[Dave Dameshek]

You say swing big on Rogers. No 40 plus guy besides Tom Brady

[Albert Breer]

has ever gotten to a Super Bowl. So I think it's sort of delusional to think that that guy's going to be the one to to offset 60 years of super bowl era history.

[Dave Dameshek]

But I also think, you know, taking

[Albert Breer]

swings on Jackson Dart who's in the news if you haven't heard. But you know that, you know there

[Dave Dameshek]

were a number, you know Kyler Murray

[Albert Breer]

and and Malik Willis and otherwise could have been options for the Steelers. Instead they leaned in here.

[Dave Dameshek]

Do you think it's to me you

[Albert Breer]

look at the Rams who are legit super bowl contenders. They have the reigning MVP and then

[Dave Dameshek]

underneath him they're developing Ty Simpson. Pretty sorry version of that going on in Pittsburgh. You have a 43 year old man who doesn't like a pass rush and

[Albert Breer]

these long shot guys that people are looking to like maybe Will Howard can develop. Do you buy that on any level bouncing off of McCarthy and other.

[Matt Verderam]

Well, I mean like part, part of

[Kent Brown]

the way this all worked out. I will say they do want to get a look at Will Howard. You know, it doesn't mean he's going to become anything but like I do know that part of the setting of the date that he was going to show up on the first day of OTAs was Mike McCarthy wanted to run basically like a 100 level off 100 level of his offense to the players, you know, early on and wanted to get a good look at Will Howard and see, you know, where the team

[Matt Verderam]

stood at the position.

[Kent Brown]

They drafted Drew Aller in the third round. So like I think the hope would be that Will Howard beats out Mason Rudolph and then your, your depth chart is Rodgers Howard.

[Dave Dameshek]

But there's no way.

[Albert Breer]

But, but they can't let Mason Rudolph.

[Dave Dameshek]

I mean again, I mean I'm talking

[Albert Breer]

about what their mind

[Kent Brown]

then do you carry four? Because like then Allers on the team.

[Matt Verderam]

Aller was a third round pick. They're not cutting hours.

[Dave Dameshek]

So definitely not cutting Aller.

[Albert Breer]

That's right. And they're not going to cut Mason Rudolph if they think of themselves the way they operate.

[Dave Dameshek]

And again we're in a new era

[Albert Breer]

here with Mike McCarthy. But still, given, you know, the Steeler way, as much as that is the thing in 2026, I don't buy that if they perceive themselves to be viable super bowl contenders that they are going to risk the season with Will Howard.

[Kent Brown]

So would you keep four?

[Albert Breer]

No, I think that they have to say goodbye to Will Howard.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah. And that could be.

[Matt Verderam]

And look like you're right.

[Kent Brown]

I mean everybody points back to Tom

[Matt Verderam]

Brady going 199th or Russell Wilson going the third round.

[Kent Brown]

Like those are extreme outliers. Like the, the last four quarterbacks standing

[Matt Verderam]

last year were, you know, Drake May,

[Kent Brown]

who's the third pick in the draft, Bo Nixon who was the 12th pick in the draft, Matthew Stafford who was the first pick in the draft and

[Matt Verderam]

Sam Darnold who was the third pick in the draft. You know, so even the reclamation project in there, right. Sam Darnold went third overall. Like at that position. The way that position is analyzed, guys just don't slip through the cracks the way they used to at all. You know, the way it's developed, the way guys can transfer around all the different like safety nets there are here and there for guys who might slip through the cracks at some point. Like I, you know, it, it's become

[Kent Brown]

harder and harder to find a really

[Matt Verderam]

good one outside of the first round. So I would agree with that. But I don't mind the approach of, of throwing darts at the dartboard. You know what I mean?

[Albert Breer]

Like, I think you just have to keep taking swings. I disagree with what you just said. As a matter of fact, Brock Purdy is, you know, Mr. Relevant.

[Matt Verderam]

There's one.

[Dave Dameshek]

I don't think Brock. But I also always say you have

[Albert Breer]

to put the asterisk next to it. Brock Purdy doesn't work in any football situation. He's with Kyle Shanahan. And so if you buy that broad

[Dave Dameshek]

logic, then if you, then Mike McCarthy

[Albert Breer]

should be able to get the best version of someone viable out there. Well, the issue is, is there any, are any of those four guys in Pittsburgh real guy difference making guys? And my answer is probably no.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, and that's why, I mean again, like, you know, it's, it's interesting. Like Russell Wilson in Seattle was a third round pick, right? How many people do you hear talking about how the Seahawks traded for Charlie Whitehurst or, or signed Matt Flynn? Like the Seahawks throw a lot of darts at the dartboard. You know, they brought back Matt Hasselbeck for a year. They had Tavares Jackson there. Like they, they, they swung and swung and swung and then in the third year they hit.

[Matt Verderam]

So I don't mind the idea of continuing to swing at the position. You know, I think that that's, you

[Kent Brown]

know, worst case scenario, especially with the

[Matt Verderam]

guy who's not a first round pick is the guy becomes a long term backup for you and you wind up saving, you know, a few million dollars a year because you have the guy

[Kent Brown]

on a rookie contract.

[Albert Breer]

Okay, two more real quick for you and then you go. You mentioned the Browns. I, you know, a year ago, again, people were making fun of them.

[Dave Dameshek]

They took Dylan, Gabriel and Shador and they already have Watson and flat. They're taking swings.

[Albert Breer]

It's the quarterback league. Until you solve that, you're not a, you're not a real contender. So I credit them. But in the here and now, does money play in Cleveland this year? Is it Watson?

[Kent Brown]

I think, yeah, I think my guess would be Watson starts the season. And you will probably see Shador get extended time too. As they figure out where they're going at the position is barring them taking Brendan Sorsby in the supplemental draft. This is obviously going to be a pretty big decision point for everyone in that building after this year, whether you have one in house who you're going to take if you don't in the 27 draft, which I think everybody expects to be pretty good at the position. So here's the thing with Watson. I mean, to me it's much easier to go from Watson to Sanders whenever

[Matt Verderam]

you need to do that than it

[Kent Brown]

would be to go from Sanders back to Watson. Right. So I think that's number one. Number two, Todd Monkin has made like offenses work with tons of different quarterbacks. If you want to go back into his history, you'll find David Garard in Jacksonville, you'll find Brandon Whedon at Oklahoma State, you'll find Jameis Winston, Ryan Fitzpatrick in, in Tampa, you'll find, you know, Stetson Bennett at Georgia, you'll find Lamar Jackson with the Ravens. So he's made it work for a lot of different types of quarterbacks. And you know, I think with Watson, what would be worse than just wasting the three first round picks and $230 million would be not giving him a chance this year and seeing him go ball out somewhere else. So if I'm the Browns, like I want to find out if there's something there, I want to find out and maybe it takes me four games or six games or eight games to find out, but I at least want to have a final answer given all of that time and all of that money

[Matt Verderam]

that's been spent on him.

[Kent Brown]

You know, your investment in him is still much greater than your investment in

[Matt Verderam]

Shador Sanders or Dylan Gabriel is.

[Kent Brown]

And so I think, you know, the first thing you do is you endeavor to get an answer on, on if there's anything there with Watson and then you maybe get a look at Sanders. I think you probably are where you are with Gabriel, which I think Dylan

[Matt Verderam]

Gabriel's got a chance to play in the league for a long time, but he's probably a career backup.

[Kent Brown]

So, you know, you, you, you, I think get, try to, you're going to

[Matt Verderam]

try to get as complete an idea of what you have at quarterb27 as you possibly can.

[Albert Breer]

Oh man, I see. To me it's my, the rolling discussion that I think I lean into more than any other where pro football is concerned. And it is the guy at the trigger and then the guy coaching him up. And the difference that that has made in pro football this millennium, you know, Kyle Shanahan more valuable to the Niners than Brock Purdy is. And as we've now seen, Ben Johnson, more valuable to the Lions than. Than Dan Campbell is or Jared Goff to that point.

[Dave Dameshek]

Who coached Matt Flynn again when he was in Green Bay? Oh, yes, it was Mike McCarthy.

[Albert Breer]

Brings me back to my last question here. I believe in McCarthy is the better coach for right now, for this team, for this roster, and for developing the next quarterback who they get, whether it's Sourceby or they draft them next year or otherwise.

[Dave Dameshek]

The thing that I. I stumbled across

[Albert Breer]

last week, all of a sudden was

[Dave Dameshek]

the realization, oh, wait, Mike Tomlin's gone. And I always call him the greatest floor raiser in the sport. Should we not just be assuming that

[Albert Breer]

the Steelers meet their usual level of, you know, nine wins or whatever?

[Dave Dameshek]

Is that somehow in jeopardy because of this change? I definitely like McCarthy better than Tomlin,

[Albert Breer]

given that Tomlin felt outmoded. But I also think he, like I

[Dave Dameshek]

say, made sure that they, you know, they.

[Albert Breer]

They never had a losing season either.

[Kent Brown]

So I did this blind test with people, and I had four coaches, and McCarthy was one of them. And his record, his career record over nearly two decades was remarkably similar to the other three coaches. Do you know the other three coaches were.

[Albert Breer]

Tell me.

[Kent Brown]

Huh?

[Dave Dameshek]

I want you to tell me. I would guess Harbaugh.

[Kent Brown]

Harbaugh, Tomlin. Yep. Right.

[Dave Dameshek]

Who else is relatively consistent?

[Albert Breer]

I'm trying to.

[Kent Brown]

You got two of the three. Shanny, Sean Payton.

[Albert Breer]

Ah.

[Kent Brown]

So, I mean, I. I think sometimes optics play into this. Obviously, there's a lot of, like, the back and forth with him and Rogers back at the end of Green Bay. And I, like, I think sometimes Mike. Mike can come off. Mike's a really smart guy who sometimes. Who doesn't. Who can I come off as kind of folksy, you know?

[Dave Dameshek]

And, like, I picked Vicksburg accent and not.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, but, but.

[Dave Dameshek]

But he has done down to earth.

[Kent Brown]

I mean, like, I. I think you'd surprise people if you told him and this just happened. He just won 12 games three years in a row in Dallas. Like, I think most people would be surprised if you told them he did that. You know what I mean?

[Matt Verderam]

Because people don't.

[Kent Brown]

And as a perception thing. You know what I mean? Like, most people don't perceive him that way. Like, if John Harbaugh came in and won 12 games three years in a row in Dallas, they'd be like, my God, what a great job he's done. And I don't Know why it is? Maybe it's Anti Endzer. I don't know.

[Matt Verderam]

Maybe you should look into that, Dave.

[Dave Dameshek]

But I've looked into it, Bert, and it's. It's well covered. Hollywood, I don't know why hates Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the city of champions. Maybe it resents it for all of our success, all of our titles all over the place. But the facts are the facts. Black Sunday is a terrorist attack on Super Bowl 10 featuring the Pittsbur Steelers. In Heaven Can Wait. The Rams win in overtime. Warren Beatty installs himself as the quarterback. As a ghost. He's a ghost. He jumps into the body of the ran. Long story. Who do they beat in that Super Bowl? The Pittsburgh Steelers in overtime. Like I say in, in sudden death terrorist attack at the Stanley cup final. Who's playing in it? The Pittsburgh Penguins. The natural bird. You remember the football field, they call it Gotham. That's Pittsburgh, man. That whole thing when Heinz Ward runs for the touchdown, that's Pittsburgh. And in the natural, when Hobbs hits the home run, who does he do it against? The Pittsburgh Pirates. And while he takes his glorious run around the bases and he's celebrating with his teammates, dangerous shards of glass are falling on Pittsburgh Pirates outfielders.

[Kent Brown]

I didn't realize this level of persecution was underway. Thank you for educating me.

[Albert Breer]

Hey, that's what you need to investigate. Bert Breer, I don't know if you heard Dan LeBatard said last week sports journalism is dead. I don't want you to go into a five minute thing here for your sake, but you're one of the people who legitimately is toeing that line. How does that hit you given the world in which we live in two

[Dave Dameshek]

realities and all that it feels.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, I mean, thanks for saying that. I'd say it's an interesting question because I know.

[Dave Dameshek]

Because by the way, I do need to say the reason I know how

[Albert Breer]

seriously you take it. I went to Indiana University School of

[Dave Dameshek]

Journalism and all of that.

[Albert Breer]

And I remember being struck by man, the people, this is borderline religious, the importance of journalism in our society.

[Dave Dameshek]

And I remember being struck by that when you and I were in a New Orleans bar for that Super Bowl. And I remember you going into great

[Albert Breer]

detail about the meaning of you coming up up in Dallas and the influence that the guys learn, learning at their knee and what that meant to you

[Dave Dameshek]

and all of that.

[Albert Breer]

So I sincerely know that you take it dead seriously.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, so I mean, like I grew up reading, like the Boston Globe that I grew up reading was like an all star team, you Know, and so

[Matt Verderam]

Will McDonough was the guy that I

[Kent Brown]

looked up to the most.

[Matt Verderam]

But you can go down the list, the guys that were there, I mean, Peter Gammons, Bob Ryan, Dan Shaughnessy, sure.

[Kent Brown]

You know, when I was in high

[Dave Dameshek]

school, Bob Ryan's getting a little bit

[Albert Breer]

too crazy with the. Bill Russell is the greatest of all time.

[Kent Brown]

But, okay, it's a but. But, yeah, I mean, like, I couldn't check Shaq Bill. I think it's, I think on it, like, there's look like, I think, you know, it's our job to kind of

[Matt Verderam]

create a record of everything that's going on. And, you know, I, I've always viewed my job is to have an idea of what's happening inside the league with all 32 teams and, and be able to deliver the best information I can in as many mediums as I can. And I think, like, one thing for all of us now is meeting the audience where they're at, you know, and so whether that's on social media, whether that's through video, whether that's through podcasting or writing, there's ways to do it. You know what I mean? Like, there's lots of ways to do it. You know, I think, think Pablo Torre is a great example of that. Like, what he is doing is journalism, you know, and I think most people listening to it probably wouldn't identify it as that, but it's, it's journalism at its root, you know, so, you know, I think that that's, that's sort of where I'm at on that. Like, I, I, I've been fortunate to work at some places that I, you know, I mean, the Boston Globe, the Dallas Morning News, we were together at NFL Network, Sports Illustrated, now, that have great legacies. But I, I mean, it's not my job to do the job the way that guys in the 50s and 60s would have done it. There's still fundamentals that I think we all should adhere to, that they adhere to. And, and the important stuff, how you gather information, your ethics, all that's the same, you know, but how you deliver, it's much different. And so I've got to do the job differently than those guys did. I, I tell you this, like, one of the most useful things for me was when I left NFL Network and went to si, I sort of challenged myself to, to pay attention to what I'm consuming, because I think a lot of times people in our business, what they want to do and what they're actually consuming are two completely different things. And that helped. And the other thing that helped me was having.

[Albert Breer]

I think that is such a great point, man, that, that seems so obvious that I think a lot of people get away from. Right, right, right. You know, in comedy writing they say write what you know.

[Kent Brown]

Right, right. And then I think the other thing is like, it's. I just take a look at your kids and how they're consuming stuff. I mean, the way I did this was the way a lot of kids my age did it was I'd go to the end of the driveway and

[Matt Verderam]

pick up the paper and read the sports page cover to cover.

[Kent Brown]

You know what I mean? Like, how many kids are doing that now?

[Matt Verderam]

Zero.

[Kent Brown]

You know?

[Albert Breer]

So like Wednesdays were the biggest day for me coming home from school because I knew Sports Illustrated was waiting in the mailbox for me. It was to see who was on

[Kent Brown]

the COVID It was mine, it was mine on Thursday. And I would, I would devour that thing, you know, and they just, they, they, they don't consume it the same way. So just pay attention because, you know, I've got an 11, 9 and 6 year old now and they're going to be in the core audience before you know it, you know, like, so I think that's like the important thing is like the, the fundamentals are still the same. It's just how you deliver the content is, is, is what's always changing and what you need to keep up with.

[Albert Breer]

I gotta say, man, you struck me from the first time before I ever met you face to face, watching you do stuff. You always had an old school presence and that's why Bert Breer really did seem to suit you. But you have over the last 20 years transition pretty neatly in a tough environment. Things have changed so wildly that you now have landed clean on the other side, like I say, with our pal Kent Brown and Matt Verderam and, and Connor Orr and all the other greats over there, it's.

[Kent Brown]

Kent Brown was a good pull. I didn't know you and Kent knew

[Matt Verderam]

each other, but it makes sense.

[Albert Breer]

Oh yeah, dude, they from Wilmer.

[Dave Dameshek]

Then you go, you go over to Johnny's and tell him Kent Brown's mom

[Albert Breer]

sent you down there for the pork chops with the peppers. The cherry peppers on.

[Kent Brown]

Wait, say it again. What's the name of the place?

[Albert Breer]

It's Johnny's in Wilmerding.

[Matt Verderam]

Johnny's in Wilmerdon.

[Albert Breer]

Okay.

[Dave Dameshek]

Yeah, get over there.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, they're Kent Brown pork chops from Johnny's.

[Matt Verderam]

And one word didn't.

[Dave Dameshek]

Okay. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, no, you're, you're, you're doing great work.

[Albert Breer]

Keep up the great work and we

[Dave Dameshek]

appreciate the time and, and best wishes.

[Albert Breer]

Maybe we can connect in season and check in on the Buckeyes in the, in the conference that now belongs to the Hoosiers.

[Kent Brown]

Of course. And I, I, I don't, I don't

[Matt Verderam]

have the date in front of me, but maybe we can, maybe we can circle that date on the calendar when, when the Buckeyes are in Bloomington and, and do something right around that.

[Albert Breer]

You know what?

[Dave Dameshek]

If you want to meet me at the 50 and settle all hash right there, we can do it halftime, pre game, I don't care. Whenever you want it.

[Kent Brown]

10 paces in turn, right?

[Albert Breer]

That's right.

[Dave Dameshek]

That's right.

[Albert Breer]

I was just talking fisticuffs. But if you want to have some gun play, I'm open to all options here. In the meantime, like I say, keep up the great work. Bert Brear.

[Matt Verderam]

Thanks Dave. Appreciate you having me.

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[Albert Breer]

There he goes. What stood out to you? A lot of good info there. What about the Brendan Sorsby thing? Let's say it does work out that he is eligible in you know A couple of weeks here. Boy, all of a sudden an interesting name to consider a Mike Fuentes.

[Gino Fuentes]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Me and Gino were actually talking when you were talking to Albert about like what the supplemental draft is because it's

[Albert Breer]

always, just make it clear, he's Burt.

[Mike]

Well, Albert like my dad's name was Albert, so I'm going to call him Albert.

[Ethan]

Albert the alligator.

[Mike]

I don't think I called my dad Burt once in his life. Do you know, did it do. That's more like something for a. I

[Gino Fuentes]

don't think I ever called him anything but dad.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think I called him out.

[Dave Dameshek]

Do you think he's a bird or an Albert?

[Gino Fuentes]

He seems like a Burt.

[Dave Dameshek]

Brer.

[Kent Brown]

I can go with the bird.

[Ethan]

Is burnt always Albert, like is Burt Reynolds. Albert Reynolds?

[Mike]

No, when I think Bert, I think of like Burton Ernie. So I think it's almost like insulting Bert. Yeah, because that's like, I think if

[Albert Breer]

you're Bert B U R T. I think that's it. I don't think you're Albert or anything. I think you're just Bert.

[Ethan]

Well, anyway, Burt Reynolds was BURTON Leon

[Mike]

Reynolds Jr. See, now you could be messing up Albert Breer because what if people think his name is Burton? Burton what if his name is Burton Breer? That's terrible.

[Gino Fuentes]

Although it rhymes.

[Dave Dameshek]

Go ahead, explain. Go ahead, tell everybody about the supplemental.

[Mike]

The supplemental draft. So it's something you always hear about and you know that like Ethan, Young Ethan, he thought, hey, you just lose a pick. But the way it's actually done is it's actually three separate lotteries, Dave. It's the team with six or fewer wins in tier one, the rest of non playoff teams in tier two, and then the 14 playoff teams in tier three. So what it actually is, is three separate lotteries to determine a draft order. So then you think, okay, well now we're just making picks. No, it's a blind pick. You have to submit the name and the round you would take the player. And then if you get outbid by another team, that team gets the pick. And then as we.

[Ethan]

That's awesome.

[Mike]

They lose that pick in the upcoming draft. The next draft. So we were thinking, you know, let's

[Albert Breer]

do every draft that way.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I, I agree with you. No, that does seem like a lot of fun, dude. That seems like a grand old time.

[Kent Brown]

Right?

[Mike]

So we were thinking, you know, it's funny that you were talking about this because me and Gino were talking off Mike. We're like, man, Cardinals, jets and Dolphins, abnormal. The same exact Three teams plus the Browns that Bert Brear had said.

[Gino Fuentes]

And then I mean, I guess even the Steelers too.

[Mike]

Well, that's what that was. My next thing, Dave's eventually going to put the Steelers in that, which it all makes sense. And then Gino was like, yeah, then Gino's like, well, you can't really give anything more than a second.

[Kent Brown]

Right.

[Gino Fuentes]

Well, I mean the smart thing would not to be to give up anything more than a third because then you can get a compensatory pick, you know, you can maybe make up for it or some in some way. But all these teams already have kind of a, you know, they kind of have some skin in the game in terms of a quarterback. You've got Carson Beckman, they spent a third round pick on him. I mean even Pittsburgh spent a third round pick on Drew Aller.

[Albert Breer]

So I should know this. I'm embarrassed to ask this question, but I'm going to do it for the good of, of the football loving public. What round pick that the Browns have to give up for Bernie Kosar? I think that if, you know, that's why I started with the question to Bert about the issue, you know, the gambling question. And if that's just going to, you know, be a non starter for teams because if you like him as a football player, if you think he is on par with Arch Manning, then what's in the way of using your first round pick? I'll tell you right during their quarterback of the future, eight months or 10 months before anybody else takes a swing at a QB.

[Gino Fuentes]

If the Browns did what they did with DeSean Watson, then this should be no problem with the history.

[Albert Breer]

I think people I've, I've said it before, I'll say it again. I think, you know, if you think you're going to wind up with a top three overall pick, maybe that changes.

[Gino Fuentes]

But that's it because a lot of these teams are in real dire straits. The jets are probably going to finish up there. The Cardinals might be the worst team in the league. The Dolphins might be the worst team in the league.

[Dave Dameshek]

I mean I both just said it. You got to take swings, you got

[Albert Breer]

to keep taking swings.

[Dave Dameshek]

This counts as taking a swing at

[Albert Breer]

a high end talent. Unless you think, well we can't have him, he's an air do well, he bet on his team and we don't want to bring that into our building.

[Mike]

Well, the Browns took a big swing in the 1985 supplemental draft, Dave. They gave up their first and third round in 1985 in their first and sixth round to the Bills to get,

[Ethan]

to get, to get the first pick in the supplemental draft.

[Mike]

First round picks, third round pick and a six round pick.

[Ethan]

So they made a bunch of trades just to get the number one pick in the supplemental draft. Well, just assuming they had to give

[Mike]

up competition, it was to land Bernie Kozar. That's all.

[Matt Verderam]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ethan]

That's crazy.

[Dave Dameshek]

All right, I want to listen. We have a lot to talk about now.

[Albert Breer]

We're.

[Dave Dameshek]

We're already out of time. Why? Because Dave doesn't shut his yap. But as quickly as we can.

[Albert Breer]

I think this Knickerbockers thing reminds me of. I mean, I get it, it's the capital of the world, nyc, but it also takes on this thing and I'm reminded of. Because I guess New York has maybe been out of the limelight in terms of its teams playing for a championship of late. And so I've forgotten this feeling. But New Yorkers have a way of making it seem like nothing matters unless it's in New York, and that's that. Amin Elhassan declares that a title in New York is worth 100 anywhere else.

[Matt Verderam]

He's kind of right.

[Dave Dameshek]

No, I don't.

[Ethan]

I don't know about that, Dave.

[Kent Brown]

I think he's right.

[Mike]

I think he's right, but I'll tell you right now, okay? I'll tell you.

[Albert Breer]

They, they perpetuate it that way.

[Dave Dameshek]

Yeah.

[Albert Breer]

I think New York has a bigger influence on the rest of America than the rest of us can see.

[Mike]

Especially. Especially.

[Albert Breer]

But I'm allowed to be resentful of that. Especially the Rangers winning the 94 Stanley cup was not.

[Dave Dameshek]

What's that? Go ahead.

[Mike]

Especially in basketball, when it comes to New York, like they're, they're known as like basketball town. Like basketball, usa.

[Kent Brown]

New York.

[Ethan]

New York would move. The earth would literally move in New York if the Knicks won a title. We've seen the Giants win two titles in, in recent memory. And there were celebrations, sure. And when the Yankees won the title, there were celebrations, sure. But nothing would match the Knicks, especially since it's been. Since the 70s, since they actually brought home a title. So yeah, this would be. Amin said it on the show on Thursday. Like, the city will burn to the ground and they will not know. They will have nothing left.

[Albert Breer]

What a tribute to their heroes.

[Dave Dameshek]

We're gonna burn the city down.

[Albert Breer]

I love the. The reflected powers that, that you become above the law for one night at least if your team wins the title. Weird. Amidst all this Knickerbocker celebration is Also the Jackson Dart stuff. He introduced the President of the United States at a rally earlier in the week and is catching a lot of flack and a lot of praise for doing it.

[Dave Dameshek]

Before I jump in, let me say I love free speech.

[Albert Breer]

It lets people tell on themselves.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's great.

[Albert Breer]

And I'm not saying Jackson Dart is

[Dave Dameshek]

doing that, but he is telling you

[Albert Breer]

where he stands on all of this.

[Dave Dameshek]

And you might remember a decade ago, like we talked about, Colin Kaepernick got himself into trouble for taking a knee.

[Albert Breer]

And then Malcolm Jenkins of the Philadelphia

[Dave Dameshek]

Eagles built on that and raised a

[Albert Breer]

fist in support of what Kaepernick was doing. And he caught a lot of flack in Philadelphia.

[Dave Dameshek]

And then his teammate Chris Long went over the next game and put his arm around Malcolm Jenkins. I asked Chris Long about that.

[Albert Breer]

Take a listen to his answer.

[Chris Long]

Everybody's heart was in the right place, man, you know, just trying to be decent, you know, that's all. And that's why some of the praise I got was a little uncomfortable for me because like, I'm, you know, I'm just being decent, you know, And I, I do think like, you know, as you fast forward eight, ten years later, we are less decent than we've ever been as a country. And, you know, I got two takes landing pretty well this week. I think one of them is that Tua wasn't a starting quarterback. And the other was that, you know, I didn't want to go to the White House to meet that, that individual twice. And I feel like a lot of people owe me apologies for some of the criticisms and the messages I got because it really transcended. It is about decency, it's about, it's about patriotism. And I don't feel very patriotic right now. I don't think a lot of people do.

[Dave Dameshek]

By the way, that's not to say that Chris Long definitely agrees with Malcolm Jenkins on everything that Malcolm Jenkins did. And in fact, I never asked Chris Long, do you agree with him? Like I say, he transcended politics as much as that's politics and he was merely decent. And maybe that's the place we need to get to. The idea that you're not allowed to use your voice, you know, as a, as a celebrity, and that's what you

[Albert Breer]

are, if you're the starting quarterback of

[Dave Dameshek]

the New York Giants is you can have some influence on things. To say that has no place in sports, betrays the relationship that high end athletes have had in American society for

[Albert Breer]

at least a century now.

[Dave Dameshek]

Do you fellas know that Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig campaigned for the Democratic presidential candidate al Smith in 1928. Will Chamberlain campaigned with Dick Nixon. You know who else campaigned with Dick Nixon back in 1960? Jackie Robinson.

[Albert Breer]

Jackie Robinson then eight years later campaigned

[Dave Dameshek]

against Dick Nixon when he figured out who Dick Nixon was. But again, the point is that, that free speech is free kind of, but it does have consequences to it. You know, Colin Kaepernick can tell you about that. Muhammad Ali can tell you about that. Bill Russell can explain it to you as well. I just think that maybe Jackson Dart doesn't. In our world, in which all the movies now have multiverses, I think real life now we live in a multiverse. I think there are in fact two realities for us. I don't think it ever entered Jackson's Dart, Jackson Dart's mind or Abdul Carter's mind to say like, wait, people think that way. I had no idea. I thought everybody would be on my side.

[Kent Brown]

Yeah, Dave.

[Mike]

So I'm 41 years old now when people ask me, hey, you know, like who are you as a person? Right? And I'm like, I didn't even realize who I think I was. So I was probably in my early 30s. So I think we expect way too much of a 23 year old kid who let's, let's face has probably been handed everything to him since he was 15 years old, told he's the best at what he's doing his whole life.

[Dave Dameshek]

He's a millionaire, you see his woman, he has not dealt with a whole lot of friction.

[Mike]

Exactly.

[Dave Dameshek]

The biggest, probably the most sandpaper he's ever confronted in the last 15 years

[Albert Breer]

was like, I don't know if you're

[Dave Dameshek]

a first round pick in the NFL.

[Mike]

Jackson, we're just expecting way too much out of a 23 year old, just turned 23 years old three months ago. Probably expecting way too much from that guy.

[Dave Dameshek]

I, well, what I think it really comes back to is we can list off, I can say, well, here's why from the other side of things, here's why Donald Trump is problematic or from the other, other side, here's why I thought Joe Biden was problematic and go back and forth on all that. I think when you go at Jackson

[Albert Breer]

Dart and he should be made aware

[Dave Dameshek]

of the consequences and you know, be asked why did you come to this? Did you arrive at your support of the President because of the poli sci courses you took while you were at Ole Miss? Or is it just one of those

[Albert Breer]

things like religion that you accepted in

[Dave Dameshek]

your household that your parents were aligned

[Albert Breer]

politically or philosophically or religious in a

[Dave Dameshek]

certain way, and you followed suit. Because I bet you that that's the

[Albert Breer]

the answer to all of this. He probably has not spent a ton

[Dave Dameshek]

of time considering that. And I think that's what Dan LeBatard

[Albert Breer]

and other people have gotten at this

[Dave Dameshek]

week, is you should consider it. And if you're going to use your platform, you should at least be able to explain yourself. But I am all for standing up and using your voice for whatever you want to. You just need to understand, and especially in the world we live in now, not everybody's gonna embrace it. Right? I think that's that We've said it all. I don't know if I made any sense there. I'm trying to make sense of this divided reality in which we live. But I do appreciate Bert Breer for joining us for a little conversation amidst all that's going on here. Enjoy your NBA Finals. Enjoy your Stanley Cup Final prayers.

[Albert Breer]

Up to the people, Buffalo next century.

[Dave Dameshek]

I don't know. Hope it'll be better for you until then. Thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.