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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Zaslow Files: Deep Conversations and Omelette Debates
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- [00:01]
A
We've got Jonathan Zaslow on the way to talk about the greatest first overall pick in NFL, nay sports history. In the meantime, after another march filled with madness, I've got regions on my brain. If you ask anybody what the four points on a compass are, they'll say North, South, East, West. Which is kind of weird because we read left to right as our society, as you may have heard, so you'd think it'd be West, north, east, south, right. You wouldn't say North, East, west, south except when you say the acronym news with N E W S. What's it all mean? I don't know, but one thing's clear. Putting those directionals in order gets easier when you do it By NFL division over the past decade, at least if you're trying to rank the quality of said divisions, which happen to pair up very neatly by region. Long story short, the west times two is best or are best. The NFC west is the only division with more than one team to win a Lombardi over the last 10 years. Matter of fact, the Cardinals are the only team from that division who hasn't at least played in a Super bowl during that stretch. And the AFC's version of the west, which for some reason includes a team based in Missouri or Kansas now I'm not clear either way, it's the Chiefs I'm talking about. And the Chiefs have made five super bowl appearances over just the last seven years. And that leaves out last year, plus the three Lombardi to go along with those ones won by the Rams and Seahawks. So like I say, the the west is the number one region in all of football America. And that brings me to the other side of the equation. The two south divisions, the two worst in the NFL. Over the last four seasons, the NFC south has had one team, the 24 Bucks, win double digit games. One win double digit games. And it was just 10 games in the age of 17 game seasons. Even Tom Brady had a losing record and in his final season the NFC south broke the goat. Sure, he was roughly the age of the Pittsburgh Steelers 2026 starting QB when that happened, but still, it is weird. The south is the only one division besides the NFC west to have had more than one team reach a Super bowl over the last decade, but even those come with baggage because of Tom Brady. He delivered that 21 Lombardi, which predictably is and always will be remembered as his and his alone. The Bucs and the fans just a vessel to wield against his old rival Bill Belichick, with whom he teamed up six years prior to 28. 3. The South's Atlanta Falcons, Brady's Patriots passed the baton on to Allen's Bills in the AFC east. And the Eagles soap opera has yielded success in award season. And as for the two Norths, they haven't been to a lot of Super Bowls over the last decade, but they've been lousy with high end QBs, future Hall of Famers and Super bowl contenders. So the east and the north regions are kind of like the two guys in the middle of a good four man bobsled. Not first, not last, not deeply important, but not bringing up the rear either. No, that's the South's job. Why? Because in SEC country, Sunday just means less. P.S. the Big Ten now means more on Saturdays too. But we can talk about that at a later date. Let's start the show.
- [03:20]
B
Yes.
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A
Hi. Hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America, presented as ever by our pals over at DraftKings. DraftKings, the Crown is yours. It's episode number 59. We have a lot to get to here. We're at the time of this recording, exactly two weeks away from the kickoff of the draft on the banks of the three rivers, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Can't wait to get out there. Me and Lucy Rodin are going to be chiming in on the big live stream with Le Batard and everybody else. I don't know if this character is going to be there, but let's say hello to him right now. You know him from Zaz show as well as the aforementioned Le Batard show. It's our pal Jonathan Zasla. What's the poop, fella?
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C
How you been? Hello, Dave. How are you? Good to see you.
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A
I'm well, I'm well. You came back from vacation a little bit early. I want to hear about that. But first we have to tend to our usual business here. Gino Fuentes. What's the poop with you? It's episode 59. So which player in NFL nay sports history wore that number best?
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D
Got a lot of linebackers here in the end of the 50s. I got Jack Ham, London Fletcher and Luke Keakley, who I heard from you, Wore his number 59 to honor Jackham.
- [04:31]
A
I didn't realize that until recently, by the way. I once, my sister Amy and I saw Jack Ham at a Pittsburgh Penguins game in the Igloo. The. The. The now decimated former home of the Pittsburgh Penguins. And we saw Jack Ham sitting there and we said, oh, we got to go get his autograph. And so we went over to him with a piece of paper and a pen. And we said, hey, hey, Mr. Ham, can we get your autograph? And he said, sure. And he. He went. And he was like. He, like, went to try to write it. And they looked up at us, and he tried again, and he looked up at us again. He said, sorry, your pen doesn't work. And that was the end of our interaction with the hall of Fame linebacker Jack Ham. Also, I got to throw in Jake Genel of the Tampa Bay Lightning, formerly of the Pittsburgh Penguins, and the guy who replaced him in number 59 in black and gold, Igor Chenikov. Lighten up. The NFL. I mean, the NFL, the NHL. And Roman Yosi also wore it in the NHL. I think we got to give it to. I don't know. Let's ask Zaz. Zaz, who's the greatest 59 hammer? Keakley.
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C
Oh, I think. I think Jack Ham. I think Jack Ham is. Is revered more than Luke Keakley is. I think it's Ham.
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B
Short career for Keakley, too.
- [05:43]
C
Yeah, sure.
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B
Career.
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A
Well, both hall of Famers, and Ham was great. Was apparently ahead of his time in his ability to cover running backs and lineback. I mean, and tight ends and otherwise, which was a rare skill for guys playing his position as an olb. Now, Zaz, you had a less successful vacation. Yeah, early. I've. I've heard it seems like something that happens in movies, but people. I don't think I can think of ever knowing anybody who's like, yeah, I'm just gonna leave vacation a couple days early.
- [06:15]
C
Now, we've done this several times. I've pulled this move several times in the last couple years on family vacations where we come home early. I did it last week. My family, we went and we stayed in Vail. We had a great time. We stayed in a really nice house. A friend of mine gave me her house for the week, so we stayed there. We'd never been. We're a skiing family, the Zazloz, but we normally go to Park City in Utah. We wanted to go try Vale this time, but we know it's a gamble. Going at the end of March, you know, we're trying to get in, like, the very last week of skiing season, so we. We knew it was a gamble. It looked like there was going to be one day that I could ski. The slopes were open, but I'm not trying to ski on. On. On on ice here. All right. I'm not an Olympian. All right. I ski the in sports championships aren't
- [07:02]
E
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C
I have a good time.
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A
Not an Olympian, right? Not an Olympian.
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C
No danger involved here. I'm not trying to win a gold medal with skiing, so I need it to snow so we can get a little bit of the powder. And it was supposed to snow the day before, our last day, so we would ski the final day. It didn't snow, so the skiing was not up to snuff for your boy. So I just said to my wife ago, you want to just like, should we get on a plane today? You want to leave early? And she's like, yeah, we may as well, because we've done everything. Like, otherwise we're just going to sit here in the house. So we came home a day early. No big deal, you know.
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A
Holy hell. Good for you.
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C
I did it one other time, though, Dave. One other time.
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A
I've left decisive action. I like it. Go ahead.
- [08:37]
C
One other time. It was two years ago. No, actually was one year ago. Excuse me. It was after. We were in. Me and my whole family, along with my mother, too. My mother came with us also. We were in North Carolina. We had a cabin in North Carolina and it was the beginning of the Stanley cup finals. And the Panthers, so this is last year, they're trying to go back to back. And the Panthers, they lost game one of the Stanley Cup Final. We watched it in the cabin. Panthers lost game one of the Stanley cup final in overtime. This was so upsetting to me that the next day I told my family, we're loading up the car, it's time to go home. All right? My team needs me I watched every game last year. Stanley cup final from the Zaslow mansion in the family room. And we won the Stanley Cup. I watch it here in this cabin. We're down one game to none. Time to go home, everybody. We packed up the car, we went home and guess what happened, Dave? Guess what happened that series.
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A
I know, I know what happened. As a matter of fact, can I say spoiler alert.
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C
Go ahead.
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A
Panthers won the Stanley cup.
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C
Including. Including game two, right when we got home. That's right. They won the Stanley cup again.
- [09:44]
B
Brad Marchand, overtime winner.
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C
Yep.
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A
I.
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C
Look, I had to do what I had to do for the team. Did it for the team.
- [09:50]
A
Bruins legend. Yeah, listen. Coincidence. Yeah, probably. But I like where your head's at with this. I am one of these people who like, I listen, maybe in September if my, you know, early in the season the Steelers are, you know, they're playing, they're playing the Jaguars down in Duval County. Okay, maybe I could go watch that with some other people. I can hang out and you know, like to tilt the elbow a little bit over the course of the three and a half hours and drink in the action and some beer and kibbutz along the way. When it gets to the playoffs. The gangs worked hard enough all season long that I think it requires me to give a little bit too. I'm just going to shudder the. The outside world and focus in and this, this is the important time and it needs my full attention as well as the players. So that's how I try to operate. Right. So. So we. We park our cars in the same garage once again. By the way, great shows. The last few weeks here we've been on a real roll here. Amin Elhassan last week, Pablo Turi the week before that. Daniel Jeremiah the week before that. Point is go and subscribe on YouTube to the Football America page and or wherever you find your podcast. We really appreciate it and keep the comments going in the YouTube section. Zaz, as somebody who commits and commits hard, a lot of people love this weekend. They love lazing on the couch and watching high end golfers in Augusta. If you're a skier, usually skiers aren't golfers and golfers aren't skiers. I don't think maybe they are. But either way, what would you rather have? You can by deed it's not like you just. It's going to be delivered to your front door tomorrow by Amazon. It's. It's like that you. You will have done what's required to earn this. Which would you rather have Earned in your career. A Pro football hall of Fame gold jacket or a Masters green jacket?
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C
It's a good question. I'm not a big golf guy. I will watch the Masters this weekend on Saturday and Sunday. My, my older son is a golfer and he'll be way into it, so I'll watch the Masters for sure. But I, I, I think it's the gold jackets. You know, there, there have been guys. There are some guys who win the Masters. They have a green jacket. Like, whoa, that guy won a green jacket one time. But everybody was wearing that gold jacket. It's like they, they had a hall of fame career, of course, you know, So I think I would go gold jacket.
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A
Well, I hear you, but Chris Hamburger and Bob Greasy have gold jackets, so it's not that. Esteemed Fuentes boys, any thoughts here?
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B
Gold looks so much cooler than the green.
- [12:32]
A
You know, I'm an estate. I'm Bo Brummel of, of sports. I care about what it looks like, but I, I'm not really looking at, like, do you want the. Neither one is a winning look. You want to walk around in a gold or a Kelly green jacket? No. Yeah, but, but with the little, you know, with the, with the, with the thing, the patch on there, that's, that's going to tell the story. I, I would go out. I, by the way, when people do the thing, like, oh, they keep it behind glass and shelter. No, no. At least once a week, I go out to dinner in whichever one I. To remind everybody, like, already you showing off. Yeah, that's goddamn right. That's what I'm doing. I'm wearing my gold jacket out. You don't have one.
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B
Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a golf guy, number one. But like, Kelly green.
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A
I'd wear it to bed, too. I'd wear it to bed. Be the only thing. Be the only thing I show up to bed in.
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B
But Kelly green jacket, just remind the
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A
old lady, like, you know, who you're, you know you're laying next.
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B
Yeah. Cause she's gonna give a shit. Like, the Kelly green suits I feel like I see in the wild before. Like, I'll go out to a random business thing and I'll see somebody wearing a green suit. When you're wearing that gold, baby, you know it's gold. You know what I mean?
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A
I hear you. I think, well, I mean, practically, if you have to have earned the football jacket, you might have a limp. You're more likely to have a, a chronic physical problem by the time you're Walking around in your gold jacket. Probably not the case with the. With. With the green jacket and really what it affords you, if. I understand. I think if you win the green jacket, I think you get to go play the masters. Course, you can play whenever you want for the rest of your life, but
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B
you're doing two different things. You're doing, like, which achievement is higher compared to I just want to wear.
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A
No, I'm not doing anything. I'm talking about all of it. When you're doing the omelet or the cheese or the meats. When you got the gold jacket, all of it.
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C
You battled with men.
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B
You took the bumps, you took the beatings. You won the green jacket. You put a couple of days of good golf together. Who gives a shit?
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A
Yeah, but.
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B
Damn.
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A
Hobby.
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B
That's a hobby.
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A
Oh, my.
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B
Hey, hey, guess what? When you play golf, nobody can affect you but you. That's not a sport. It's a hobby they put on tv, okay? I'm done with it.
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A
All right, all right. If you want to make that weird distinction, that's. That's your business.
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B
How am I wrong? How am I wrong? How am I wrong?
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A
One you get.
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B
The one's a sport where 11 guys are trying to kill me, okay? And then one is, I go on my little stick, and I hit a ball down some grass, and maybe the wind. Maybe the wind gets me, or I hit a bird or some old lady eating up a Mento cheese sandwich gets hit with my ball, and now I got to take a penalty. Not the same thing.
- [14:56]
D
You all right, man? You need someone to talk to?
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A
What's wrong with him?
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D
I don't know. He's charged up today.
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C
Take it easy, man.
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B
Dave, you want to know why Jason hit the imaging?
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A
He's being rude, Dar. He's being.
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B
No, no, because, Dave, guess what? It's time for the return of the count.
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D
Oh.
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B
Let's go.
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A
What a treat for you.
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B
All this stupid hobby golf talk has got me thinking how we're only 22 weeks away from the start of the NFL season. How many weeks, Geno? I got you. Don't worry. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
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C
Wow.
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B
22 is further away than I thought. 22 weeks until the start of the NFL season. Dave Danishek.
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A
22 more weeks. Well, two weeks till the draft. And it's funny, Zaz, the count, which
- [15:50]
B
is 14 days, by the way. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. That's further away than I thought, too. 14 days. Well, 13, because this comes out on Friday.
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A
The music and just the vibe. I would Think as you I would think the Count is from somewhere in eastern Europe.
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B
Yes, we come from.
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A
But again Pennsylvania. Dave, the Count sounds like he's from Puerto Rico this time.
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B
I don't know how you're making that distinction. There's very. It's very different.
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A
Okay.
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B
Bad bunny was the last super bowl day by the way. The Super Bowl, Dave. The Super Bowl. 310 days till the next Super Bowl. 1, 2, 3. Oh God.
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A
They're fine. Nice to see you again, the Count. Welcome back. Hello Dave. And don't be nice to see you as well. Yeah. Hope all's well down there in. In Puerto Rico. All right, here we go. Zaz, this is something important I wanted to do around the draft. Soon we will be watching the draft lottery for the NBA and the NHL will do its version of it and I'm over the moon because the high draft pick of the Pittsburgh Pirates, Connor Griffin just did what seems borderline impossible or the Pirates did what seems that way which is inc that guy to a long term contract. All the jokes about see on the Yankees or Dodgers in a couple of years do not apply to this stud. We'll see if they can wrap up Paul schemes. But I'm very excited about what's going on with the buckos, Zaz. Anyhow, sorry for that little detour. Here's what I wanted to ask you. Best first overall pick. Let's stick to NFL to start this conversation.
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C
Okay.
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A
The greatest first overall pick in pro football history. Go.
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C
When I think of greatest first overall pick in the NFL really a couple of names come to mind that stand above the others. I think the first one that comes to my mind is John Elway. You know John Elway came into the draft supposed to be generational player. Obviously made a stink about where he's going to be drafted that whole deal with and he ended up fulfilling it. I mean he went to five.
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A
Do you remember or you're too young to probably remember when that was going.
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C
I'm too young. I'm too. I was alive but I'm too young to remember. You know it was happening. But he ended up going I like
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A
where your head's at right out of the gate which is. You know I talk about the curse of supposed on a team when they're heavily favored in a big spot that adds extra pressure to you. I mean imagine being the individual who's like this prodigy can't miss. And then as it turns out obviously as we go through this we'll, we'll. We'll probably identify some Guys who couldn't miss and did miss. But John Elway, that, that the heaps of pressure coming out of Stanford.
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C
Yeah.
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A
To be the guy like this guy is, is the most gifted QB in the history of people to that point and he delivered. Yes.
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C
Yeah, he's the first guy I think of overall. I think of two players that they're, you know, best number one overall picks. First one is John Elway and the second one is Peyton Manning. Manning obviously came with, you know, a whole to do as well and, and he ended up, you know, fulfilling it too. Setting all the records, you know, appears in. What are we talking about? Four Super Bowls wins. Two of them and obviously, you know, won one of them with the team that drafted him. So for me, best number one overall picks, NFL, it's John Elway and Peyton Manning above everyone.
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B
How much are we putting in that Payne Manning had to keep running in the Tom Brady where John Elway, John Elway had good quarterbacks, but he didn't have the greatest quarterback of all time standing in his way.
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C
I mean, it's whatever. Like, like, like Manning still went to four Super Bowls. That's a lot. Like, okay, if he didn't have to run into Tom Brady, he went to more. But all right, still appearing in 4 is, is a lot. That's like, I think Dave, wouldn't you say before Peyton Manning was drafted, it's like, all right, should we take Peyton Manning number one overall? Okay, great. If someone would have said this quarterback is going to appear in four Super Bowls, you would have said, yeah, that's, that's probably exactly what we're hoping for.
- [19:58]
A
He delivered in a way that Elway did. Elway goes to five loses the first three, as I've mentioned ad nauseam, the first two, at least those Broncos rosters had no business getting a sniff of a Super bowl appearance. But John Elway dragged them there and they got whipped. And that was kind of the story of Elway's career was like, man, he flops in the big spots. Like, man, you would too. If Sammy Winder were your feature back and Steve Watson or Advance Johnson were your pass catchers, you probably wouldn't do well against Montana and, and those other high end teams that you were facing. When you get to the 86 giants and all of that.
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D
From a team, a team perspective though, I mean, it's got to be, you know, Terry Bradshaw for the team that drafted him, went on and won four Super Bowls. And this is where I step aside and let Dave go. Go ahead.
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A
No, well, I I mean you know I can obviously advocate for Bradshaw, although it was tenuous when he was going to even be they draft him in 70 the year after they draft Mean Joe Green. By the way the Bradshaw is borderline flailing and can't win out against Joe Gilliam, the big arm guy who was his competition. But by super bowl by the bowl 9 in 74 he you know people will say he was a passenger for that one. You know he has a decent game against the Vikings and then in Super Bowl 10 that passenger throws a 64 yard dime to win the super bowl against the mighty Dallas Cowboys to prove his salt and then you know goes on to win two more I so there's my before him though. How about one OJ Simpson Orenthal James Simpson was a first round pick Bruce Smith in the conversation at least for best defensive player of all time was a first overall pick Matthew Stafford in ought nine here's the thing about Peyton Zaz where what kind of human being are you? It's sort of like the Solo vs Skywalker debate. You know, like it defines who you are on some level. I always say I would rather be the I would rather have been the San Diego Chargers running up to that draft. Then I would be the Indianapolis Colts. Which is to say like I don't want to have to make the choice. You know, if well whoever they take then we get the other one and like if it doesn't work out that's not on me. That's well if Peyton ends up being better than Leaf like well then they made the right choice. What did you want me to do other than take Ryan Leaf? But very often waiting and that you can make a case Caleb Williams vs. Jaden Daniels to some degree like you're better off being Washington. Like well what did you want us to do? We they took Caleb so now we had to take that we had to take Daniels.
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C
How say you asked I want to make the choice. I want the control. I want you prefer it I want the power like I it's on me. I'll control my own fate. I want to make the choice.
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A
See that's well that's what you did on vacation. Matthew Stafford Miles Garrett deserves a shout out. Baker Mayfield is a fun conversation as we go through that 2018 group and Darnold now has a ring and Allen and Lamar Jackson are certainly on their way to the hall of Fame and whether or not Baker was the right choice for the Browns and and and rolling through we talked about Bake at the top there. Joe Burrow. And then Caleb Williams, I'll throw him out there. Does Caleb Williams 10 years from now factor into this conversation we're having?
- [23:28]
C
I think he will. I do. I think he will. I'm a big Caleb Williams guy. I think he's going to be fantastic his entire career. And certainly Chicago, when you consider the last time they've won a Super bowl, we're talking, what, 85. And I mean, he, he might already be the best quarterback the Bears have ever had. So, yeah, I think in 10 years we'll be talking about him in this conversation.
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A
Yeah, well, I don't acknowledge much of pre super bowl era pro football, so he's definitely the best quarterback of the super bowl era that the Bears have ever had, which is pretty pathetic.
- [24:01]
C
How do we look at a guy like. How do we look at a guy like Aikman? I'm right three Super Bowls, but I don't think anyone says, oh, you know, he's the reason that the Cowboys won those Super Bowls.
- [24:12]
A
Well, this, this leads us into the worst first overall pick. And Tony Mandarich isn't the worst, but I mentioned it a week or two ago and I'll bring it up again now. It is one of my favorite things that TROY AIKMAN In 93 go wait, 89, I should say, goes first overall. Then the Green Bay packers are looking at the board that includes Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, Derek Thomas. Not mere hall of Famers, but, you know, generational greats or however you want to couch it, whatever hyperbole you want to apply to those guys. They're not just garden variety hall of Famers. They stand out even among those guys. They take Tony Mandarich second overall. I, I think that's, that's the worst draft pick given what was behind him. But it's not a first overall. I think that Cam and Luck, 11 and 12, at least deserve a shout out. Luck, where do, where do you come down on Andrew Luck? I've long said that if you change their respective skin colors, if you swap their skin colors, people would have hammered Andrew Luck way more than they did. Consider all the crap that Cam Newton got for the, for the dancing and everything else. And maybe he deserves a lot of it post career for, for, you know, making everything about himself. But I mean, still, maybe the greatest rookie season ever for a quarterback that 2015 MVP throwing the ball to Philly Brown and company and, you know, so he didn't fall on that fumble. That was bad. But Andrew Luck, like, like about 20 minutes before the season kicked off was like, yeah, I don't think I'm up to it anymore. So good. Good luck, everybody. Ironic for Andrew Luck to say that. How say you.
- [25:58]
C
Yeah, the. The place that I would push back on that is. I don't feel like we had. I don't think. I don't feel like we spoke about Calvin Johnson that way. Like, when Calvin Johnson decided Now, it wasn't 20 minutes before the season started, but when Calvin Johnson walked away while still essentially in the prime of his career, we. We all kind of shrugged where we understood, yeah, his body hurts. You know, his body hurts and. And his team stinks. Now, Andrew Luck's team didn't stink, but I think his retirement also came at a time where we were having conversations just about how brutal football is and what the injuries can do to you. So maybe if Luck had walked away 15 years prior, we would have been rough on him. But he walked away, like, right in the middle of. Yeah, head injuries. Guys can't walk when they're older. And so I feel like that kind of benefited him when. When he walked away.
- [26:46]
A
Interesting. But the other side of the coin and what I'm pushing at is Cam Newton didn't benefit from any of that kind of talk. I mean, Cam Newton' body broke down because he, you know, the. The one of sports enduring ironies is that the biggest dude wears out the fastest. Like, nobody can get him to the ground. You mentioned Earl Campbell. He ran out of gas pretty early. The anomaly is kind of Jerome Bettis for, you know, making it into double digits in his career and still being relevant.
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C
But Derrick Henry, Jack War.
- [27:16]
A
Well, yeah. Right, Derek? Well, yeah, that's a. Derrick Henry's a great guy to push back with. He is an exception that proves the rule. But like Shaq and Lemieux and Eric Lindros and Mark Bavaro and Rob Gronkowski, those guys who are hard to get to the ground when it requires multiple human beings to launch themselves at you to. To get you to the ground. You're the one. You're the common factor in all those collisions. And so you end up wearing out more quickly than the guys taking the shots that you are. Andrew Locke was like, yeah, we get it, man. Like, would. Would Carolina. Would Charlotte, North Carolina have gotten it if Cam Newton, a week before the season or whatever was like, yeah, body eight ain't responding the way I'd like it to everybody.
- [27:59]
C
Heck, down here, we. We were very rough on Ricky Williams. Like, Ricky Williams retired right before the season was starting.
- [28:07]
A
And.
- [28:07]
C
And then, of course, on top of it, after the retirement, out of nowhere, about a week later we realized, oh, he's retiring because he wants to smoke weed. Like he's about to be suspended for the season. And then of course the reaction to Ricky retiring was even worse. So yeah, we, we were rough on Ricky before we even knew about the suspension part.
- [28:28]
A
I feel like people, as memory serves, at least people, you had no horse in the race with the all time rushing record. But I remember there was some like the hell you doing, Barry Sanders? Just stick around for one more year and break the rushing record and then, and then do what you do. Barry Sanders does that. It's funny that Barry Sanders still, if you bring his name up in the year of the Lord 20:26, there are some, there's a decent percentage of people say, oh, that's the best running back of all time. Not for me. He's better than Emmett Smith though. But I think it would have clarified things and Barry Sanders if he had that rushing record on the resume. I think everybody would just have to sign off on. That's the.
- [29:05]
C
I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right.
- [29:07]
A
As it is, it's Walter Payton and that's when I, when people want to apply career numbers, it's like, does anybody think Emmett Smith was better than Walter Payton?
- [29:15]
C
Right.
- [29:15]
A
No, not if you watch the two of them quickly on the worst pick. I want to throw some options at you here. Where do you come down on Bo Jackson? Tampa Bay. The weird thing with the USFL versus all those other alt leagues was that some percentage of those guys actually signed with the USFL and damaged their careers. Bo didn't do that. He went and played baseball for a little bit. But the Buccaneers burnt the first overall pick on Bo Jackson who never even put on their uniform. So is Bo the worst draft pick of all time?
- [29:45]
C
Very short career. And on top of that, while he never played for them, did Bo Jackson ever have a 1000 yard rushing season?
- [29:52]
A
I don't think he got to a thousand with the Raiders.
- [29:54]
C
I don't think he did, you know, so yeah, for, for, for that right there, I would say Bo Jackson's closer to being a bad number one overall pick than he is to being a good overall number one pick.
- [30:07]
A
Yeah, Tim Couch sucked.
- [30:09]
C
Tim Couch is one of the first that come to mind for me. Yep, Tim Couch for sure.
- [30:13]
B
While you guys are talking quarterbacks in the drafts, I was looking at the Peyton Manning's draft, 1998, weak for quarterbacks. It was basically Manning, Ryan Leaf, the Next quarterback after that, end of the second round, Dave's homeboy, Charlie Batch, the next best quarterback, a name that you would know in the sixth round, Matt Hasselbeck.
- [30:29]
A
Oh, wow. How about that? Yeah, how about that? How about the collective wisdom going Chaz Batch. Oh, yeah, definitely over Matt Hasselbeck, who, if he beats the Steelers, ironically or otherwise, or coincidentally In Super Bowl 40, is there a case for Matt Hasselbeck sort of getting some hall of Fame buzz? I'm not sure about that. Alex Smith, how do you say again, it's styles make the fights and what the competition and everything else. Alex Smith, you have to mention as the worst pick first overall because Aaron Rodgers was on the board and they went. Don't you have. I mean, Aaron Rodgers is one of the five best quarterbacks in the history of people. What's Alex Smith. They took him on purpose. And by the way, the whole story, like, he's from the region and everything else, that would have been a. A tidy and fun little story had they taken him.
- [31:16]
C
Yeah, but 20. What, 21 teams passed on Aaron Rodgers. It wasn't like, okay, you took him number one, so we're taking Rogers number two. If most of the league passed on Aaron Rodgers that day. And, and I think, like, Alex Smith had a good career. He had a really good career. Went to an nfc, at least one NFC championship game, maybe also an AFC championship game, if I'm remembering correctly. But he, like Alex Smith, had a good career. He just wasn't great right away with San Francisco like people thought he was going to be. I think he's closer to a good number one than a bad.
- [31:49]
A
Huh? Okay, that's a, That's a fair argument. I think the winner is jamarcus Russell.
- [31:54]
D
Yeah, I was gonna say how long.
- [31:55]
B
Why are we avoiding this even a question?
- [31:57]
C
Well, that's easy, Dave. Like jamarcus Russell being the worst, I, I think would be unanimous. But when I was a kid growing up, to me, I always thought of the worst number one overall pick, it was Steve Ettman. Like, going into that draft, Steve Epman was so hyped up, he was coming off that 91 Washington national champion, which shared with the Miami Hurricanes. Steve Eppman was supposed to be so, so great, and he wasn't. He did absolutely nothing. He only played, I think, six years in the league, did nothing, nothing but, but, but be injured for most of those six years. Only played. Can you imagine that? He was number one overall to Indianapolis. Only played three years before they released him. So to me, growing up like Worst number one overall was always Steve Amen.
- [32:45]
A
They, and, and they also the, those Colts took Quentin Cor, yet they, they used a high pick on him. Steve Amen gets the asterisk of injury. When he, specifically in that Rose bowl that you mentioned, he, I'd never seen it happen to that point in my life. He literally drove the center across from him into the quarterback, into the end zone. I'd never seen anybody like manhandle another 300 pound human being the way Steve Entman did. He was, yeah, he was a specimen who I think really didn't make it because of injury. Where do we come down on. And there are some other ones out here too with injury, like Andre Bruce, talking about defensive guys. Tom Cuz went drafted by the Bills, Kenneth Sims, some other names to just throw out there. But where do you come down as on the career of Jameis Winston?
- [33:44]
C
I swear he counted as a terrible bust, Dave. I swear he's on my list here. I was just about to throw Jameis Winston at you. I think he's an all time bust. When you take a quarterback number. And I know he had some. Look, he had, you know, 30 touchdown passes in a season. I get it. You know, he, he did have some, I guess what you could call good years. But when you take a quarterback number one overall and you look at his resume at this point where he's a journeyman backup now for the majority of his career, that's a massive bust. Dave.
- [34:18]
A
All right, I agree with you. I think that we, we kind of have tried the senses. It's funny to me. There are just some people who we want to give a pass to. It's funny. Calvin Johnson, you mentioned him. He's one of those guys who, before he even took a snap, was kissed into the hall of Fame, just about literally, that. That was Julio Jones kind of had that vibe too. It's like the guy would have to actively, like he would have to flame out because of injury or otherwise to not get into the hall of Fame. Given the buzz, Jameis Winston is the reverse of that. Like, he's become so likable that you don't want to denounce him. You don't want to point out the reality that he's just a massive bust.
- [35:00]
C
Right? Everyone loves him. Everyone loves him who plays him. He's a great teammate, apparently. But it shouldn't hide that he was a, he's a major, major bust. Major bust.
- [35:16]
A
So, okay, that completes the NFL and we have Peyton Manning we're going to go with as our Greatest. Number one.
- [35:22]
C
I think I'll weigh. I think I'll weigh number one.
- [35:24]
A
Elway. Number one. Okay. And then our worst is. Is Jamarcus, by the way, Vinnie Testaverde, another one of those guys who was a bust. People forget about that for a long time. Coming out of the U, he was one of those. Oh, he can't miss. He might be the greatest quarterback of all time. And then he lost to Penn State, and then there were some doubts about him. And then he didn't get off to a great start, and it went on for years. And then he did turn it around.
- [35:47]
C
He resurrected himself.
- [35:49]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, let's do NBA here.
- [35:52]
B
Before you move on, Dave, I have the answer to the Alex Smith question. That Zazlopo. Alex Smith, three conference championships. Okay. He lost to the Giants the year they beat the Patriots. Yeah, he lost. It was 2017. He was on the team for 2012, but he had been replaced by Colin Kaepernick. So he was on the team, but he did not play in that Super Bowl. And then in 2018 against the Patriots, and he lost that one. And that was the big controversial year because the next year, Patrick gets put in. Everybody's like, how are you going to replace a guy who was just in the AFC Championship with this kid who's only a second. Da, da, da. Whatever. It worked out for the Chiefs.
- [36:27]
C
Yeah. So started in two conference championships. Yeah. All right.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah.
- [36:30]
C
Played a three.
- [36:31]
A
I mean, the ball hit Kyle. The guy's name was Kyle Williams, the punt returner. And the ball hit him twice. Not once, but twice against the Giants. The. The Niners should have really gotten to that Super Bowl. And then talk about what if there's no way you yank him? No matter how much you want to go to Colin Kaepernick, you can't yank him. If Alex Smith wins the super bowl, you can't take out the. The reigning super bowl championship qb. Mid season, kids.
- [36:56]
B
Back to back.
- [36:56]
A
Yeah.
- [36:56]
B
Trying to, you know.
- [36:57]
A
Yeah, NBA. I'll just throw them out for you as a couple. You got magic, Aem. What? By the way, I'll stop right there. Actually, Akeem is interesting because Michael Jordan goes third in that draft. Sam Bowie goes in between. Famously or infamously out of. You know, from the Wildcats, goes to the. To the Trailblazers is a Keem. Can you consider him the best first overall if he wasn't even the best player in his class?
- [37:32]
C
Yeah, you can, because we're talking about best number one picks. We're not talking about best picks. So I don't think the fact that Jordan went three and it's not as if Olajuwon didn't win two championships for the team that drafted him. Like their pick of Olajuon over Jordan is totally fine. Like it worked. It worked very, very big. Now granted it worked while Michael Jordan was suspended for gambling. Okay, so he wasn't in the league those two years. But nonetheless, like the guy they selected won big with them. But for me, the greatest number one overall, it's Magic Johnson. Yep, he's number one for me. Magic's the first one. I think. What are we talking about? 79 draft.
- [38:12]
D
I think it was 79 draft. He played 13 seasons. They went to the finals nine times with him, the team, and they won
- [38:18]
C
five of them and, and including in his rookie year. Exactly. So yeah, for me, Magic Johnson's greatest number one overall pick.
- [38:27]
A
I think first of all, back to the Jordan part of it. If you redrafted, if you said we now know what these guys are all going to turn into when you're drafting Houston Rockets first overall, they would take Michael Jordan. They wouldn't take Akeem Olajuan. Even as great as Akeem was and great member of the community and everything else, Akeem is beloved there in, in Houston, Texas. I think they would take Jordan. I'm not trying to make a case against Akeem. And by the way, one of my hottest takes that I sincerely believe, and I've taken this to a number of guys on the Houston Rockets and Chicago Bulls over the years had the best thing that ever happened to Michael Jordan was that retirement for those two years. Because if he would have had to play the Houston Rockets, his legacy would have been dented by the fact that he would have lost one of the NBA Finals. They, Akeem, that is the, the, the, the antidote to those Bulls teams of the 90s was a guy who could score in the middle against them, the three headed monster that they were throwing at people would not have been able to do anything to slow down Akeem Olajuan. And by the way, the perimeter defenders would have at least given Michael Jordan some trouble. And I think the Houston Rockets would have vanquished Jordan and the Bulls.
- [39:40]
C
It's funny, I think you're right, but it's funny what you're saying that it's a good thing he didn't, you know, that he did retire there because he would have lost one of those finals to Olajuan and the Rockets and then he would be, you know, I guess 6 and 1 instead of 6 0. But he did come back in 95, losing the conference finals to Orlando. But it's like that doesn't matter. No, no, that's okay. He didn't lose the next round. So it's good that he didn't get to the finals because he would have lost there. Losing before the finals. That's okay.
- [40:10]
A
It's a. Well, that is exactly the mystique that boosts up Joe Montana. As I went. You had a 4. 0. Never threw an interception in a Super Bowl. Yeah, but he got hammered by the Giants and otherwise in the playoffs. Those don't count as strikes again. He didn't even get to the Super Bowl.
- [40:28]
C
Right.
- [40:28]
A
That be worse right now.
- [40:30]
C
And if we want to have the conversation, like, obviously, Look, Jordan won six championships. LeBron so far has won four championships. But LeBron's been to 10 finals. So which is better, six conference championships because that's what Jordan won, or 10 conference championships because that's what LeBron won?
- [40:49]
A
Well, I, to me, with all respect to magic, I go LeBron as my 1A. And my number one is Lu Alcindor, aka Kareem Abdul Jabbar. On the strength of. Before he even goes to the lakers, he's winning MVPs or, you know, he's. He's the guy for, for the Bucks. And then he comes to LA and he's. Before Magic arrives, he's winning MVPs with the Lakers and everything else. He wins a title with the Bucks, Magic. There's no evidence that Magic can do it without Lu Alcindor. Slash Kareem Abdul Jabbar, save the first Jordan title. Where if there hadn't been injuries, maybe Magic's Lakers get over on Jordan and then further dent Jordan's legacy, which is already damaged by having lost to the rockets in the mid-90s. I think I go Kareem Abdul Jabbar, the greatest first overall pick in basketball history.
- [41:46]
D
But most of the damage went came with another team than the team that drafted him. That's my only knock on that. With Magic. With Magic, the Lakers drafted him and they got all of his career. The Cleveland Cavaliers drafted LeBron James. He got them one title. He got titles for the Heat, he got titles for the Lakers.
- [42:02]
B
That one, that one title was against what a lot of people consider like the greatest basketball team of all time.
- [42:07]
D
Oh, it might have been the greatest comeback ever, but.
- [42:08]
B
And because I, I think about Jordan all the time, but there was never a team that stepped on the court with Jordan in the finals that the Bulls were not favored against. The Bulls were always favored.
- [42:17]
A
That, by the way. Wow. Listen, I. Everybody likes to sprinkle in some cynicism and all of that kind of stuff. The case for the Bulls and for Michael Jordan is the quality of competition. In those finals, they never played a mediocre team. There was no team that sort of like. Yeah, just sort of landed that way. They got a, they, they, they got a crappy like, oh yeah, the Sixers with Allen Iverson. They had one good player and a bunch of supporting guys around him and everything. Every team they went through. The worst team that they beat was the Lakers team. I just mentioned to start their. Their, their first of all, the Sun's team.
- [42:54]
B
The Sun's team had Barkley.
- [42:55]
C
Well, by the way, they.
- [42:58]
A
You're going to bring up the Sun's team.
- [42:59]
B
No, that's the only one.
- [43:00]
A
Team is one of the great NBA single season teams I've ever seen. Are you, are you, are you crazy with.
- [43:05]
B
No, I'm just saying, I'm just saying when you compare the crazy team, you're a nuts, man.
- [43:09]
C
I mean, by the way, the, the Bulls, they didn't have home court advantage in all of those series like the Suns. One, they did not have home court advantage. One of the Jazz, they did not have home court advantage. So I don't know if that meant that they were an underdog.
- [43:24]
A
The Sonics. The Sonics won 60 games that year with Sean Kemp in the glove. I mean, I don't.
- [43:29]
C
The Bulls won 72.
- [43:30]
A
That mighty.
- [43:31]
B
Yeah, and I think.
- [43:32]
A
And I'm just telling you, I think
- [43:33]
B
that was only one of all the times LeBron's been in the finals. I think he was the favorite against the Heat in the bubble. He was favored there. Right. And then he might have been favored against the Mavericks in the first year here.
- [43:45]
C
Yes.
- [43:45]
B
But then he was an underdog and all the.
- [43:46]
C
Yeah, the Heat were not favored against Oklahoma City.
- [43:48]
B
Oklahoma City or the Spurs.
- [43:49]
C
Maybe not against the Spurs.
- [43:51]
B
No, I don't think so. I think the spurs were the favorite both times. So he's only been the.
- [43:54]
A
By the way.
- [43:55]
C
Yeah, by the way.
- [43:57]
A
Gotta shout out Shaq as a, as a great first overall pick. I'm going LeBron here. And by the way, even though Shaq
- [44:03]
C
never won with the team that selected him. Never.
- [44:05]
D
That's what I'm talking about.
- [44:08]
A
Okay, yeah.
- [44:11]
B
Rules on this.
- [44:12]
A
But LeBron. But listen, LeBron is sort of. I was talking about the 90. The 89 NFL draft with four busts and a bust in Tony, Manderich, LeBron. How about LeBron's draft class goes LeBron, then through third is mellow, then fourth is Dwyane Wade. No, fourth is boss Chris Bosch.
- [44:32]
C
Four was Bosch. Wade.
- [44:33]
A
Fourth is Bosch and Wade five. Number two, Darko.
- [44:38]
C
That's tough.
- [44:39]
A
And that.
- [44:39]
C
And he was gonna go.
- [44:40]
B
He was gonna go to a team that was like. They could have extended their run there because I think that's when the Pistons were on the downturn.
- [44:46]
A
From.
- [44:46]
B
When the. From the chunk.
- [44:47]
C
Well, no, they. They won the championship. Darko's rookie year.
- [44:51]
B
Yeah. And then. And they. But they had a. If they would have picked Carmelo or Bosch or whoever.
- [44:56]
C
I don't know. It's tough to say that. Like, maybe that would have ruined the chemistry. Maybe they wouldn't have traded for Rasheed Wallace that year because they had Carmelo. It's tough to know.
- [45:02]
B
Yeah.
- [45:02]
C
Yeah.
- [45:03]
B
Although it's, you know, hypotheticals.
- [45:07]
A
It's fun. And by the way, LeBron is the NBA's Elway, which is to say he dragged some bum teams way further than they deserve to go. And, you know, vanquishing the dubs the way he did. I. Yeah. LeBron, I don't get. Also, I know the thing about Memphis is now another chapter for reasons for people not to like him and everything. I continue to be mystified by why there is so much hatred directed at LeBron James in a world of. Filled with so many creeps that LeBron James catches so much crap for being a little bit phony and trying to play it down the middle a little bit too hard. Like, all right, there. There are worse crimes to commit there. From 19 to 22, you go Zion, Aunt Edwards, Cade Cunningham, Paolo, Bancaro, and Victor. When Bunyama do. Does. Does Wemby or Cooper flag. Are they in this conversation?
- [46:05]
C
In a decade's ass, Wembanyama will absolutely be in this conversation. And while that's a pretty good run right there of number one overall picks, I think by far the weakest there is Zion. And not that he's not a good player, but you're the number one overall pick, and they. They. They haven't even won a playoff series like that.
- [46:27]
A
That.
- [46:27]
C
That's horrible. You know, forget about winning a championship. They're. They're. They're terrible every single year. In that sense, Zion's been a bust.
- [46:37]
A
Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think there's much question, and I think he might get that. So we'll shift over to that conversation, but I'll start. Biggest bust in there's. Some obvious names. But quickly. Who the hell's. As you're an NBA wonk. Who the hell is Zachary Reason.
- [46:54]
C
Really, really bad draft. Very, very bad draft. Yeah, that, that's. It's unfortunate for the Hawks that the year they win, they weren't the worst team in the league. They jumped. They won the lottery. And in a year that they win the lottery, it's. It's just a unanimous dud of a draft. It's not like they, they miss. It's not the guy who went number two, which was Alex Sar, I believe to Washington. And he's, he's a nice player, Sar, but it's not like, oh, they should have picked this guy instead of this guy. It was a dud of a year for a draft.
- [47:24]
A
Okay. By the way, I should just shout this out because of generational differences from 82 to like 91ish. All centers are at least bigs. It goes Ralph Sampson, Akeem Ewing, Brad Dougherty, who was a high end center. David Robinson, Danny Manning, never nervous. Purvis Ellison, Derrick Coleman, Larry Johnson is the smallest of all these guys. Shaq Fu and then Chris Weber. Quite a run. And I don't think you would see that repeated in this day and age. In fact, guys that size aren't really prominent, aren't huge factors like they were back in the day. I'm fascinated by that. So we go with our busts. Greg Odin, Anthony Bennett, Zion Kwame Joe Barry Carroll. If you want to get in the Wayback Machine or my pick, Zaz, I don't want to steal any of your thunder here. Ben Simmons.
- [48:14]
C
Yeah, Ben Simmons is on my list. I do think number one biggest bust overall is. Is Anthony Bennett. I mean, just, just no NBA career to speak.
- [48:24]
B
And where did that pick even come from?
- [48:25]
C
Like, yeah, it came out. Yeah, yeah. Like he was not expected to be number one or number two. It kind of came as a surprise. There's no NBA career to speak of. You know, guys like Kwame Brown a couple of years, call me Brown, was a serviceable player. Ben Simmons certainly while he was a bust, was a very serviceable player. For a couple of years there was. You got nothing of an that resembled an NBA player from Anthony Bennett.
- [48:54]
A
Mike Fuentes is a creep because he just said in my ear. He whispered it so no one else could hear it. He said, we need to rap here. Is that right, Mike Fuentes? Yeah.
- [49:03]
B
You know, because sometimes when you do television, you tell your talent stuff that no one else supposed to know.
- [49:06]
A
So that way maybe you. All right. Well, I like to share. I like to share. That's who I am.
- [49:11]
C
It's a transparent show.
- [49:12]
B
I guess that's all.
- [49:13]
A
That's what we're doing here. Let me just say this very quickly. We had. Because I am a completionist. Best first overall draft pick in the NHL. We can go round and round about McJesus and Celebrini and Matthew Schaefer and whoever else. Alex Ovechkin, Sidney Crosby, Mario Lemieux is the correct answer to that question. And Alexander Dague is the answer to the worst first overall draft pick in the NHL. I'll come back to you, Zach. You'll get a bite of this apple here. The best first overall baseball pick. All due respect to Steven Strasberg. Poor guy. Bryce Harper, Paul Skeens, he's going to be a factor in this conversation in 10 years, probably. Daryl Strawberry. It's a Rod. Is the answer. The worst one is the sad story of Brian Taylor. 1991, the New York Yankees first overall pick. Can't miss. Kidd going to be what? Going to be to the Yankees what Dwight Gooden was to the Metropolitans. Except that he gets into a fight on behalf of his brother. Outside, a trailer falls on his shoulder, wrecks it. It's destroyed, and he never really makes it in the bigs. It's a very sad story. So he's your saddest first overall pick. All right, Zaz, I wanted to cut to the chase here. The greatest first overall pick of all time.
- [50:28]
C
It's a great wow. All sports, all encompassing.
- [50:32]
A
That's what I said. A Rod. You could go with him. Could go with LeBron or Kareem or Magic.
- [50:37]
C
Yeah, I think I'm.
- [50:38]
A
I think available.
- [50:40]
C
I think I'm going Magic. We're talking five championships for the team that drafted him.
- [50:45]
B
It's also just the nature of the sport. Like that one player does so much for your team when it's five on five compared to, you know, that guy's gonna have the most in a 13 year career.
- [50:54]
D
They only didn't go to the finals four times.
- [50:57]
B
No, it's crazy. It's. It's incredibly good. Started game seven as a rookie at center because Kareem was hurt. And they won. He dropped. He had 41 points.
- [51:06]
A
So you got. So wait, all three of you are saying Magic Johnson, because of the nature of basketball, Pick of all time.
- [51:11]
B
Yeah, because of the nature of basketball and like how much one guy. I mean, but for God's sakes, whatever team had LeBron for 10 years was going to the NBA Finals in the East. Like, that's just one guy. He literally chose. I want to take this team to the Eastern Conference finals. And he went there, and that was it. And that's just the nature of basketball. So, yeah, I'm going to have to go with magic.
- [51:26]
A
Interesting. Interesting. I know a guy who won five titles as well. His name. He couldn't even. He couldn't. He couldn't even speak English. He couldn't even speak English back in 1984. But he knew enough to sign the contract that he was reluctant to sign when Eddie Johnston announced his name for all the world to hear. The Pittsburgh Penguins select first overall Mario Lemieux. And Mario Lemieux showed up and just with his presence and his dominance, saved the Pittsburgh Penguins from being disbanded or moving to some other part of North America. His greatness, all the pressure. He's the next Gretzky. Gretzky's in the league for five years, and this guy's supposed to be his rival. He shows up and how and exceeds him in terms of talent. To anyone who looked at the two side by side, that is obvious. He wins two Stanley Cups, all with a terrible back. He has cancer. It's sort of sad, but at the same time, he. He's not Gail Sayers either. He's still dominating the sport on a level that no one, including Gretzky, ever has. The. The points records be damned. He is the most dominant player. Then he retires. Then he buys the team to keep them from moving again. He buys the team, they go on to win three more Stanley Cups under his watch. There is no figure in the history of people who has meant more to one franchise than Mario Lemieux has to the Pittsburgh Penguins. And the story.
- [52:55]
C
I mean, he bought. I get it. He bought the team, Dave. But, you know, It's. It's the 90s or early 2000s, and it's an NHL team. Get a group of buddies together, you can purchase a team.
- [53:04]
B
You know, it's a dollar general.
- [53:10]
A
Yeah. You understand he only wore one uniform, too, right?
- [53:13]
C
Yeah.
- [53:14]
A
This seems to be a point you're bringing up about, like. Well, he didn't do it for that. He. Well, there's only one conversation because he only played for one team.
- [53:20]
C
I understand.
- [53:22]
A
All right. I'm. You know what? I'm cutting this conversation off. I. I thought it was going to be more satisfying than it's been, I guess. Thank you for your time, Zaslow. I guess.
- [53:31]
C
You're welcome. You don't guess.
- [53:32]
A
I'm looking forward to talking with you as we do most Fridays on the Dan Lebatard Show, ZAZ Show 2.0. Find it on YouTube. Find it wherever you find your podcasts. You'll be better for it. Zaz, you're the. You're the bees knees, fellas, and love getting the app with you every Friday. Like I say. And thanks, Dave. You carving out some time for us today as well. Thanks so much, pal.
- [53:55]
C
Appreciate it.
- [53:56]
A
Thanks, Dave. All right, there he goes. Jonathan Zaslow, everybody. And here we go to. I would go on for another hour, but Mike Fuentes doesn't want me to, so you can take it up with him in the YouTube comment section or otherwise. In the meantime, we're getting closer and closer to that draft in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Can't wait to get out there. Can't wait to meet you if you're going to be on the banks of the Three Rivers at that time, too. Until then, or at least until next week when we'll really be tuning up for the NFL draft. Thanks so much, my fellow football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.