Would Donovan Mitchell Win MVP If You Swapped Him With SGA? | Hour 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Would Donovan Mitchell Win MVP If You Swapped Him With SGA? | Hour 2
Date: May 14, 2026
Host(s): Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Mike Ryan, Chris Cote, Producer crew
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into several NBA storylines, blending thoughtful basketball analysis with the show’s signature irreverent banter. The team discusses James Harden's complex legacy, what makes a player someone's favorite, and the legitimacy of certain NBA stars as undisputed #1s on a championship team. The core debate centers on whether Donovan Mitchell would be MVP if swapped with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (SGA), but the show covers much more—including changing league dynamics, egregious endgame fouls, and the volatile state of Eastern Conference contenders.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The NBA’s Least Beloved Superstars: James Harden as a Case Study

[03:42-13:19]

• James Harden’s Greatness vs. Lack of Fandom:
  Dan Le Batard asserts Harden is an “all-time player…excellent in a way that cannot be disputed,” yet he’s rarely, if ever, someone’s favorite due to style, frequent team changes, and perceived lack of passion.

  “There aren’t a lot of players anywhere else in sports that are as good…as James Harden is at what he does and are no one’s favorite player.” —Dan LeBatard (05:10)

• Comp Comparisons:

  • Neymar gets suggested as a cross-sport comp due to style, flopping, perception of "hacking the system," and failing to be the face of a franchise/fanbase (07:42, 17:47).
  • Terrell Owens, Ricky Henderson, and Gary Sheffield are floated as comps, but Harden lacks the "difficult personality" factor—his issues are more about playstyle and career choices than him as a person (09:15).

• Impact of Non-Traditional Greatness:
  The panel discusses how Harden is the “poster child for the last 10 years of the NBA where the game gets changed in a way that not everybody likes and therefore they downgrade his excellence.” (08:16)

• Style vs. Rebellion:
  Unlike Allen Iverson or Charles Barkley, whose personal flair or on-court rebellion inspired cult followings, Harden’s indifference or system-gaming only causes “indifference or anger” (16:46).

• Quitting as a Turn-Off:
  Harden’s tendency to “quit” on teams is called out:

  “Eventually at every spot except OKC, he quits. Quitting is the thing that a sports fan hates more than anything.” —Mike Ryan (18:16)

---

2. The SGA–Donovan Mitchell MVP Swap Thought Experiment

[18:41-23:13]

• Can Mitchell Be an MVP if Swapped with SGA?
  Chris Cote floats whether Mitchell would achieve MVP status and team success if swapped for SGA in OKC (18:41). The group mostly concludes Mitchell wouldn’t quite replicate SGA’s impact—OKC likely wins fewer games in the regular season, but the playoff impact is closer than most fans think (20:36).

• Extension: Jimmy Butler as “Best Player on a Champion”
  The panel discusses how reputations change: Butler was long maligned as a guy who couldn't be “the guy,” but playoff heroics for Miami changed that narrative (21:50).

• How Many True #1s Are in the NBA?
  Heated debate: Is there a “dozen or 15” players you can plug as No. 1 and win a ring? Dan and Stu push back hard.

  “A dozen to 15 guys is so many guys. They could be the best player. No way.” —Dan Le Batard (23:27)

Notable “Yes/No” Roll Call Segment

(23:33-24:54)

• Mike Ryan runs down a list—Tatum, Brunson, Giannis, SGA, Wemby, Jokic, Luka, Edwards, Steph get Yes.
• Other stars—Durant, Booker, Kawhi, Zion, Ja Morant—get No (according to Tony’s live reactions).
• Everyone loses count; jokes ensue.

---

3. Endgame Foul Controversies and Refereeing Philosophy

[26:17-35:27]

• Jared Allen’s Missed Foul:
  Major debate about a non-call at the end of a Cavs–Pistons game that could have changed the outcome. The group agrees it was an obvious foul but accepts “judgment officiating” in that game context.

  “I want an arbiter to use judgment. I don’t want an arbiter to do letter of the rule. I could get AI to do letter of the rule.” —Dan LeBatard (32:25)

• The Fans/Media Desire for Controversy:
  Chris Cote notes that a call would have made Allen the scapegoat in Cleveland sports history, not the refs the story (32:25-34:27).

---

4. The State of the Eastern Conference & NBA Playoff Variance

[35:27-43:42]

• Is the East Just “Ass”?
  Stugotz and Chris Cote criticize the Pistons’ and Cavs’ style as outdated and ineffective in modern basketball:

  “They’re trying to do it with physicality and four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. You are super constipated…” —Chris Cote (35:27)

• Playoff Style and the Changing NBA:
  The show jokes about Detroit playing a “caveman” style while the modern league is all about three-point shooting and pace.

  • Comparison to 90s Heat-Knicks games that regularly ended in the 70s—reflecting on how much less tolerance there is for that style now (36:53–37:43).

• NBA’s Changing Competitive Landscape:
  Stugotz observes, “Unlike any era we've ever seen...typically when a team makes it to the NBA Finals, they have staying power. Outside Boston and OKC, you've had teams completely fall off and quickly.” (39:51)

  • Highlighted by the rapid rise and fall of recent Finals teams: Nuggets, Heat, Suns, Bucks, Lakers, etc.

• Root Causes:

  • Injuries, three-point variance, player movement, and “brokenness” of the demanding NBA calendar are all cited as driving the volatility of NBA success.

---

5. Memorable Quotes & Banter

• On Harden’s Alienation:

  "James Harden is an all-time scorer and yet is...so, if not disliked, not liked enough that he would be a nobody's favorite player." —Chris Cote (08:16)

• On NBA Fan Psychology:

  "Unlike Allen Iverson or Barkley, whose rebellion inspired cult followings, Harden’s indifference or system-gaming only causes indifference or anger." —Chris Cote (16:46)

• On the Pistons' Offense:

  “When they have four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter, like they've got a big problem there that they don't quite have a James Harden. Cade Cunningham turns the ball over a lot, but they've got a lot of limitations.” —Chris Cote (02:17)

• On Changing the Rule Book:

  “I want an arbiter to use judgment. I don’t want an arbiter to do letter of the rule. I could get AI to do letter of the rule.” —Dan LeBatard (32:25)

• On Modern NBA Volatility:

  “It's become a sport with a lot more variance in terms of all-time greatness.” —Stugotz (43:08)

---

Additional Noteworthy Segments

• The “Yes/No” Game (23:33–24:54):
  Fast-paced rundown of possible NBA #1s by team, with focus on how fluid the “alpha” role is in today's game.
• Hairy Shoulders and Bill Russell (38:32–39:51):
  Characteristic Le Batard humor—digression into the aesthetics of old-school NBA players, segues into a Philip Seymour Hoffman movie reference.

---

Major Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:42—Dan on Harden’s legacy and lack of devoted following
• 07:42—Neymar as Harden comp
• 13:19—Harden’s personality vs. playing style
• 17:47—Comparing Harden's polarizing style to Neymar’s on the pitch
• 18:41—SGA–Donovan Mitchell swap question raised
• 21:50—Butler’s reputation shift; “best player on champion” discussion
• 23:33–24:54—Rapid-fire “Who’s a real #1?” game
• 26:17–35:27—Debate over Jared Allen’s no-call and officiating philosophy
• 35:27—State of the “ass” Eastern Conference
• 39:51—Volatility in modern NBA championship teams
• 43:08—Wrap-up on increased variance and "brokenness" of the league

---

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The panel blends insightful analysis with biting, playful humor, challenging each other’s NBA assumptions and cultural takes. Harden’s legacy, favorite player psychology, and the champion-defining capacity of modern stars are discussed with both rigor and signature show irreverence. Although broadcast from Miami, the themes—transience of greatness, shifting fan allegiances, the role of style and narrative in star valuation—are universal to NBA discourse.

---

Recommended for listeners who:

• Care about NBA narratives beyond the box score
• Enjoy irreverent, high-level basketball analysis
• Appreciate debates over legacy, perception, and changing league dynamics

---

Skip to:

• [03:42] Harden’s legacy
• [17:47] Harden vs. Neymar
• [18:41] SGA/Mitchell MVP swap
• [23:33–24:54] “Best Player on a Champion” game
• [26:17] Endgame foul philosophy

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

Most valuable promotions in Netflix are bringing you a blockbuster MMA event with a triple header of fan favorite fighters on Saturday, May 16. This marks Netflix's first ever MMA fight and it's going to be massive. In the main event, she returns to the Octagon. Ronda Rousey returns to shake up the world of combat sports, stepping back into the cage for the first time in nearly a decade to take on fellow women's MMA pioneer Gina Carano. Plus, combat sports icon Nate Diaz faces off against Platinum Mike Perry. Two of the toughest, most relentless fighters go going head to head. Plus the big man is back. Francis Ngannou, widely regarded as the hardest puncher in MMA history, takes on Felipe Linz in a heavyweight showdown. You will not want to miss five rounds, five minutes each. One chance to leave it all in the cage. Don't miss it. Watch Ronda Rousey versus Gina Carano live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9pm Eastern, 6pm Pacific.

[Stugotz]

Your summer starts now with Memorial Day

[Chris Cote]

deals at the Home Depot.

[Stugotz]

It's time to fire up summer cookouts with the next grill 4 burner gas grill grill on special buy for only $199 and entertain all season with the Hampton Bay West Grove 7 piece outdoor dining set for only $499. This Memorial Day, get low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot while supplies Last price invalid May 14 through May 27 US only exclusions apply. Seehomedepot.com Pricematch for details.

[Producer]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Chris Cote]

You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. 19,000 local agents. They help you find the coverage that

[Stugotz]

fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more

[Chris Cote]

time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Stugotz]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Chris Cote]

Right now on the television Zaslow on first take they are asking the question, are Cavs proving to be the tougher matchup for the Knicks in the Eastern Conference finals? The thing that I wanted to ask you guys, if you've been listening to the show for a while, you've heard me say that Toronto, an otherwise good team, has exactly zero chance if it had faced the New York Knicks because of the matchup problems Cleveland has been exposed the last few years. I don't get it, but they have more trouble with Mitchell Robinson. Their front line has more trouble with Mitchell Robinson than any team in the league. And he has rendered Mobley useless a few times. And I think Jared Allen missed one of the series. But Cleveland pre James Harden, no shot against the Knicks. Zero percent shot. But James Harden changes things. And the thing that I wanted to ask you guys based on last night's game. Okay, Bit of a stunner. Bit of a stunner for a couple of reasons. Detroit's Achilles heel is offensive and they are offensive on offense. When they have four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter, like they've got a big problem there that they don't quite have a James Harden. Cade Cunningham turns the ball over a lot, but they've got a lot of limitations. And there isn't a player who's cost himself more money this postseason than Jalen Durr.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, woof.

[Chris Cote]

I mean, just dismantled in a way that's super weird for an all Star.

[Mike Ryan]

Like not a big time player.

[Chris Cote]

I mean, just not an all Star. Not. Not proving to be an all Star.

[Mike Ryan]

Didn't play in the fourth or overtime.

[Chris Cote]

Well, they were, they were plus 14 when he wasn't on the court.

[Dan LeBatard]

Last handful of games for Jalen Durham. 9. 5 rebounds, 4 assists, 8 points, 2 rebounds, 2 assists, 11 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists.

[Mike Ryan]

How do you have 4 rebounds every game?

[Dan LeBatard]

8 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assist.

[Chris Cote]

But this is what I'm telling you about. What Mobley and Allen can do to somebody like Duran, they can't do to the Knicks. Like they, they have serious issues on Mitchell Robinson. But James Harden and that trade is meant to be a difference maker. And the thing that I wanted to ask you guys and the audience because I really am having trouble throughout the history of all sports finding a perfect comp for what it is that I'm about to say, which is James Harden is an all time player. He is excellent in a way that cannot be disputed. And yet because he's representative of a time when some people have turned on basketball and he represents some of the reasons that people have turned on basketball playing for so many teams. Questions about how much he cares. Even though I'm telling you, you can't be an MVP of that league if you don't actually care. You're not going to be better than all of the world's best athletes. Not caring. There is no human being who's been born, who's not care of his craft, who's not named Shaq, who can go into the league and just be better than everyone else while not caring. But his style of play is also unlikable. So he also represents the advent of change in a league where you're like, I don't like how they're playing out here, taking all these threes. I like it in the post. I like my basketball to be whatever it is that I remember. So you end up with a player who's indisputably great but is going to be diminished at every turn because people don't like what he represents. And there aren't a lot of players anywhere else in sports that are as good at what they do as James Harden is at what he does and are no one's favorite player. And furthermore, who's the team you associate him with? Is it like, go ahead. Is it Houston?

[Mike Ryan]

I think it's Houston.

[Chris Cote]

Is it okc?

[Stugotz]

I think it's Houston.

[Mike Ryan]

No, I think it's Houston. But you're right, it's a good point because you could say, all right, Durant. Durant is bounced around and he doesn't really have a team. But there are plenty of people who. Plenty of NBA fans who. Kevin Durant's their favorite player. A lot of NBA fans who feel that way. I don't feel like there's. I don't feel like James Harden is anyone's favorite player.

[Chris Cote]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard show. Is James Harden. Is James Harden anyone's favorite player? He also has the label and more than just about anybody going in sports right now, someone who's going to shrink in big moments. And last night could have been one of those moments. He missed three free throws. Like at the end of that game when it's being decided he grabbed the rebound on one of them, which Detroit can't allow. But he took six free throws, missed three of them. He was trying to give them the game.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, I was watching that game. I'm like, are these teams ass.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Stugotz]

Is this just a bad east that's a one seed from Detroit? And watching them over these last few months, and I know they had the injury to Cade Cunningham, but now he's back, they seem to be really struggling. I'm not impressed with any of these teams. I was watching that game. I'm like, these are both unserious teams.

[Dan LeBatard]

That was the issue with Detroit. And I mean, had talked about it a bunch, like, if you don't have a secondary player, if Duran can be what Duran was when he was on fire during the regular season, okay, great. You got a post presence that could really score, but when he's out of the game, you do not have a player that can help Cade Cunningham get a shot off.

[Mike Ryan]

I think it's, I don't think it's two teams or ass. I think it's two teams who are not good enough for this moment. You know Detroit, Cade Cunningham has been phenomenal. Yes, the turnovers are bad, but like he's doing everything by himself.

[Chris Cote]

The turnovers are bad. James Harden had six of those last night. That was not a good James Harden. They'll, they'll point out 30 points but it was inefficient. Inefficient. And at the end he did some things that could have very easily stained him.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, that, that missed free throw provided. I mean he got the rebound right. If he doesn't get the rebound, who knows how that game unfolds. I got a comp now he's done some winning but also he plays in a SP that affords you multiple times a year to potentially win a trophy. But a lot of the things that play with James Harden play to Neymar flops, doesn't take the game seriously. Can he actually be your best player on a championship team? This guy has so many God given gifts, but he seems like he likes playing poker and partying more than the actual game. I think Neymar is a really good comp.

[Chris Cote]

Do you guys have many others? And what I'm asking for basically is somebody who is eternally excellent. Somebody who there is no dispute you can, you can try to knock him down because you don't like him and you can certainly criticize that he hasn't won or say whatever you want about his big moments. But there is no disputing that James Harden is an all time scorer and yet is. So if not disliked, not liked enough that he would be a nobody's favorite player be continually diluted in regards to his excellence because people don't like all the things that I'm talking about which he's, he's a bit of a poster child for the last, I don't know, 10 years of the NBA where the game gets changed in a way that not everybody likes and therefore they downgrade his excellence.

[Mike Ryan]

I think I've got one guy who played for a lot of teams all time great, came off somewhat unlikable. Probably not anyone's favorite player. Terrell Owens.

[Chris Cote]

Terrell Owens is a good one. But when I point to like Ricky Henderson or Gary Sheffield or Terrell Owens, I'm also having the added bonus of that's a personality type that whatever is objectionable, Harden's not that like Harden's all playing style and Style, play and, and job choices. Right. Like, but it's not, it's not his personality that's bothering you. It's the way he's playing basketball. If you do indeed not like him or downgrade him. But these other three guys that, that have bounced around a lot or their excellence gets diminished, you have no misunderstanding as to why it is they've bounced around. It's not. It, it's. It's who they are as people, not

[Dan LeBatard]

as players, as personality wise. Like, what have we ever heard James Harden say outside of Daryl More is a liar.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, but the.

[Dan LeBatard]

I haven't heard him say.

[Stugotz]

That's a moment.

[Chris Cote]

But the thing that James Harden. It is a great moment. But the thing that James Harden also ushers in is the era of the Kardashians, the. All of it. Like the thing you associate with James Harden is, oh man, he likes himself some strip clubs. Like that's, that's what the jersey and the rafters. That's what the personality is. That's right. Put James Harden's jersey in the.

[Stugotz]

In the only one they'll be in.

[Chris Cote]

Wasn't TL great in the Super Bowl?

[Mike Ryan]

He played.

[Stugotz]

He was fantastic in the Super Bowl. I.

[Producer]

That does eliminate him a little bit.

[Stugotz]

He, for whatever reason, he is emblematic of this and he's not a guy that doesn't like, he plays. He doesn't do a lot of these maintenance programs that the other guys do. But he just forces his way out of teams and everyone looks at him and realizes that there's more potential, particularly on the defensive end too. He, he's as gifted an offensive two guard as we've seen in that league. Like seriously, Mount Rushmore talent at the two guard position.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah. But I don't believe that there's more potential in James Harden. He's an mvp. He's. He's reached his potential.

[Stugotz]

Like he's zero championships with like Mount Rushmore two guard capabilities.

[Mike Ryan]

And he's not going to win a championship.

[Stugotz]

No, because it's. You can feel it. It's just tangible. You should try harder.

[Dan LeBatard]

I feel like I've got a decent comp pre broadcasting career. Charles Barkley.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah. I don't think you guys are doing something here though, with the winning of a championship or the lack of a winning of a championship that I'm not doing. I'm putting that off to the side. Whether Terrell Owens plays well in a Super bowl or not is something I'm putting over there. We can have a reasonable discussion about whether James Harden deserves to Be in sports viewed as the number one choker that there is anywhere in sports. And that's one kind of conversation to have about him. But it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the inability to be a favorite player. I'm talking about being representative of a time in basketball which represents a shift that you're sort of the face of, which is what Mike is saying, which I find unfathomable. Right. Asking James Harden to try harder. I can feel you're not trying hard enough. And the guy wins MVPs. Makes it feel like you're saying the reason he wins MVPs is because the sport's been distorted. It's not because of how excellent he actually is. It's because we've changed so much that we're allowing the guy to take 15 threes a game. And I don't like that. And he becomes emblematic of this thing that I don't like.

[Dan LeBatard]

But then that's the change that the NBA has seen most recently. Like, there was a long stretch of time where the NBA didn't change until that moment. Right. Like, you talk about Charles Barkley. He was. Was he anybody's favorite player?

[Chris Cote]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, okay.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, I bought his book.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm from a. Philadelphia, definitely still loves Barkley. I would imagine Phoenix still loves Barkley.

[Stugotz]

He was my favorite player growing up.

[Mike Ryan]

Like, I don't know. Does Houston love Harden still?

[Stugotz]

I think. I think Houston, they might. What makes it hard with him is that he.

[Chris Cote]

He.

[Stugotz]

He's traveled around so much, and it usually doesn't end great. But when he was at Houston, there were a lot of people saying, horton's my favorite player. He was very marketable.

[Producer]

Hey, listeners, as I have mentioned over and over on this show, I have a cat, which means I don't really make decisions in my home. I suggest things and hope that my little guy, Mac, approves them. And if you're a pet parent like me, you know about Chewy. I've talked about them before. You know how much I love them as a company and appreciate the way that they handle their customers, fellow pet owners like you and I. And when they say they've got everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy, they actually do. Chewy has over 100,000 products. There's food, there's treats, there's toys, all the things that my cat Mac loves. And it shows up in one or two days, which is super helpful when you realize that you're out of food at the worst possible time. I Use Chewy and you should do. Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you could save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to chewpanions.chewy.com levitard show that is C-H-E-W-P-A-N I O-N S.chewy.com levatardshow to save $20 off your first order with free shipping. Chupanions.chewy.com levITardjo minimum purchase required. New customers only. Terms and conditions apply. See site for complete details.

[Stugotz]

Tony, you know that moment at a party or at a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks?

[Dan LeBatard]

I know it well. It's usually when I show up, everybody goes crazy.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it, but it's because Tony usually walks in with Cuervo. Walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night.

[Dan LeBatard]

It has that effect on people.

[Stugotz]

It does. You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

Keep it Cuervo, baby.

[Stugotz]

Chris, Cody, when you come over to my house and we put on the games, I got basketball, I got baseball going on. But what do I lay out for you and the boys for entertainment and drinking?

[Chris Cote]

Miller Line.

[Stugotz]

Uh huh. Those beautiful white cans or on draft or the bottle if you prefer.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, when you open that with the

[Producer]

can though, and you one of the

[Stugotz]

best sounds on the planet. You pair that with the ripe game. You take that first sip, we both look around. It's not a bit.

[Chris Cote]

I have goosebumps thinking about the first sip.

[Stugotz]

We take that first sip, we open it up and we're looking around. There's just that five seconds of almost eerie silence where you're just soaking it all in and you're like, man, did we make the right call or what? That's why we reach for Miller Lite. It's clean, refreshing, easy to drink, brewed for taste with simple ingredients. Ah, that golden color. Just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs. The original light beer since 1975. And it still hits different.

[Mike Ryan]

I love you, Miller Lite.

[Stugotz]

Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they Sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Mike Ryan]

Don LeBatard World War 3 stugats.

[Chris Cote]

We're gonna get that off the ground.

[Stugotz]

World War three colon. Our group chat has a pretty good feeling about this one.

[Mike Ryan]

This is the Don Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Chris Cote]

Well, when you guys though talk about say Charles Barkley or another example, Allen Iverson. James Harden is a better basketball player than Allen Iverson and yet will not be regarded as such because I believe people don't like a ton around him. But when you mention Iverson and Charles Barkley or even Terrell Owens, really, there are plenty of people who like the guy who's rebellion. James Harden's not that. No, like there are plenty of guys. There are plenty of people who like the polarizing guy just cuz he's the anarchist. Allen Iverson represents a time where a lot of people liked his style. The thing that James Harden is doing is he's either causing indifference or anger, but he's not causing what Iverson and Barkley did, which is rallying a bunch of fans around. No, I want to embrace, want to be associated with this guy, want to wear his jersey, want to be about what this guy's style is away from basketball.

[Stugotz]

That's why Neymar, I think is a perfect comp. It's because of the style of play too. It's the flopping and it's like, oh, you hack the system, you take a bunch of threes and you put your elbow out trying to get to the line where you can have a 30 point game and I look at your box score, I'm like, this was a bad game. That's the stuff that a generation of basketball fans absolutely hates. And sga, who's such an innocuous personality, it's falling on him. The playing style, much like Neymar, bothers people.

[Mike Ryan]

The style of play and the choking is number one for Harden. But also I think we're forgetting to mention a huge part of what turns off the fan base is eventually at every spot except for Oklahoma City. He quits. Like quitting is the thing that a sports fan hates more than anything. He quits when he's not happy. That's way up there in the dislike.

[Chris Cote]

Again, emblematic of the time though, correct? Like guy who changes teams, doesn't have an allegiance to any one place. You're never gonna associate him with what Sedano was saying is Kobe's in L A. And LeBron will never get to top him because he spent the entire time in la something we talked about yesterday and it was too glancing for my liking. And I'd like to bring up again with you guys to see if we can have a different discussion around it. We were talking about Donovan Mitchell and the idea of can you win a title if that's your best player? And the question I wanted to ask you guys, if I swap out donovan Mitchell and SGA, is Mitchell winning the MVPs? Like if I just swap them out, if I trade them for each other, am I getting a championship team in okc? Because SGA is somebody whose style a lot of people also don't like. But he's not going to have some of the problems Harden has because he's associated with one team. That team really loves him. They've seen him grow up. He's won a championship there. There are no questions about his, his personality or how much he cares. But if I take Donovan Mitchell and I just swap it out and I just trade them for each other, is Donovan Mitchell winning the MVP with the same usage rate that SGA has at okc? That's.

[Stugotz]

That's top of the heap. That's pretty tough.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's a good question.

[Mike Ryan]

Should we put it on the poll?

[Stugotz]

Let's put it on the poll. I was making the argument that if you put them on that boss and you swap out Tatum for Donovan Mitchell, I think Donovan Mitchell becomes an all time legend.

[Chris Cote]

Boston, it's what made me think of it when we left the show because Boston also hacked the system for a year and made me wonder about some of these things. Go ahead and put that on the poll as well. Even though it's a super sportsy poll question. If I replaced SGA with Donovan Mitchell, is Donovan Mitchell now the champion mvp, yes or no?

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't think he's the mvp. I think they're a worse team from a wins loss perspective in the regular season. But I think in the playoffs they're still leveled with where they are right now. Even though SGA is amazing in his own right. What they've built around SGA will allow Donovan Mitchell to step in there and all of a sudden Chet is more important, J Dub is more important, their bench guys become more important, but it's really close.

[Chris Cote]

The reason I do it with Donovan Mitchell though, I think if I ask you guys the same question on Jimmy Butler, you're not as eager to entertain it as a possibility as if I say it on Donovan Mitchell because Donovan, Mitch is a better scorer than Jimmy.

[Stugotz]

No, that was literally the example that I cited. Yes, I think he could have been good enough to win a championship as the best player on a team with that Miami team and Miami swung out twice trying to, trying to get him. If you put him on that team with Bam and Jimmy Butler, then Bam doesn't have to be your second best guy. Jimmy doesn't have to be your best guy and Donovan very clearly is your best guy. And I think he would have been able to win a championship. Down here is, you know, probably a great regret of Pat Riley's.

[Mike Ryan]

I think if you replaced Shay Giotis Alexander with Jimmy Butler on this Thunder team, you know, like, like Butler from four or five years ago with the Heat. I think Butler is potentially the MVP of the league and they quit the championship.

[Chris Cote]

The reason I bring up Jimmy Butler is because for a long time when he was an eight seed before he did the things in Miami, he's the one guy in the NBA that was getting hit a lot with the idea of, yeah, good player, can't be top guy, but can't be the best player on your team. If you want to be a champion. I don't know how many guys give me the number that you guys think that I can put in front of you where just guys in the league that you can say without question if he's your best player, you can win a champion. Do you want to, you want to try and create this list? Because we gave it to Anthony Edwards and I give it to Anthony Edwards even though he has not done it. And what I'm holding against Donovan Mitchell though, is that outside of last year, he's generally not going to be a top seed. But I can also say, man, Donovan Mitchell probably hasn't had as good a number two as the one that he has right now. Like, isn't this the best number? And they've got similar skill sets, so they have to somewhat take turns every once in a while. Between Harden and Donovan Mitchell on the usage rate.

[Stugotz]

I mean, it's a hard thing when there are certain players that have already done it and I still don't actually believe it. Like Jaylen Brown. We've seen, seen him be the best player in an NBA Finals and won a championship. Right. But they ran into teams that lost their best player. Even in that Finals, they lost Kyrie.

[Mike Ryan]

So is he the best player on that team?

[Stugotz]

I mean, he won the mvp.

[Mike Ryan]

I know, but Andre Godala won a Finals mvp. He's not the best player on that team.

[Stugotz]

No, I know.

[Mike Ryan]

That's why I'm asking that.

[Stugotz]

I mean, it's pretty close. You know me. I'm a hating ass hater when it comes to Jason Tatum.

[Mike Ryan]

I think there's probably like a dozen to 15 guys in the league.

[Dan LeBatard]

No way.

[Mike Ryan]

You think there's less?

[Stugotz]

There's way less.

[Dan LeBatard]

A dozen to 15 guys is so many guys. They could be the best player. No way.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, I think it's probably at least a dozen guys. Let's see.

[Chris Cote]

Okay, we've got a no way competition here. So you're saying let's see if you can name a dozen guys, you throw them Tony's way and we will see.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, you ready?

[Chris Cote]

We will see. Tony, you got to give him yes or no quick. I don't want elaborations. I want yeses and nos.

[Mike Ryan]

You shouldn't have to think too hard. Kate Cunningham.

[Dan LeBatard]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

This is already crazy. Jason Tatum?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Jalen Brunson?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Donovan Mitchell?

[Dan LeBatard]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Jo Tyres Maxi.

[Chris Cote]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Pao Bonaro?

[Chris Cote]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Yana Santa Kumpo. Yes. Tyres Haliburton?

[Dan LeBatard]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Shake Yodas Alexander?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Victor Wyama?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Nicola Jokic? Yes. Luka Doncic?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Anthony Edwards?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Going be a lot more in 12, dude. Kevin Durant?

[Stugotz]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Devin Booker?

[Stugotz]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Kawhi Leonard?

[Stugotz]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

Steph Curry?

[Chris Cote]

No one. Why? What do you mean? He's won a bunch.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's won a bunch. You're talking about right now. He's not the best. He can't be the best player on a team.

[Chris Cote]

He won one Toronto with Seahawk, but that's passed.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's talking about right now.

[Mike Ryan]

He had a really good year. He did.

[Dan LeBatard]

He has best season ever. Played the best season ever.

[Stugotz]

If you plug him in on OKC right now.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm not asking you. Can the Clippers win?

[Stugotz]

They win the championship.

[Mike Ryan]

Steph Curry?

[Stugotz]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Zion Williamson? No.

[Stugotz]

Cooper Flash? No.

[Mike Ryan]

John Morant?

[Dan LeBatard]

No.

[Mike Ryan]

How many we up to?

[Chris Cote]

John Moran?

[Dan LeBatard]

Like 8 or 9.

[Mike Ryan]

No one was keeping track.

[Chris Cote]

Nobody, it seems.

[Stugotz]

I don't have a pin. I started writing at the quiet. I got so mad.

[Chris Cote]

Roy, you're sorry about that? You're sorry about that? Tony can say I was talking. I was trying. I was trying to answer. You're sorry about that? On I don't have a pen and that's the only way I can count

[Stugotz]

the pins on the other side.

[Chris Cote]

In Roy's defense, I have a pen and did not keep track. Leon Draisaitl In Roy's defense also, he's really tired from last night and What I believe to be the strangest live stream we've ever done because of the teams involved. So there were two comebacks last night that I thought were fairly majestic. Colorado coming back against Minnesota and Cleveland shouldn't have won that game last night. Like, if more people cared about the Detroit Pistons, they'd be slamming them for choking in that game and having things like four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter and their win probability when there were three minutes it left in that game, their win probability was over 96%. What did you guys think about the end of regulation? Do you call either of those fouls at the end of regulation? The one that was obvious on Donovan Mitchell and the one that was obvious by Jared Allen.

[Stugotz]

And I understand why they didn't call it. We were talking about it here before the show started. I'm like, man, that that was even a frustration foul. Like, well, Tony meant to do it.

[Mike Ryan]

And Tony Brothers explanation because a pool reporter caught up with him after the game. Tony Brothers explanation was. Yeah, that it was incidental contact.

[Stugotz]

No, it was.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm telling you what he said.

[Stugotz]

The broadcasters also framed it that way. That's not. If that game is on mute and you don't have the commentators couching it as like. Well, like he tripped him up.

[Chris Cote]

Up.

[Stugotz]

That looked like a frustration foul. We just blew the game. And Allen kind of lost his mindq

[Mike Ryan]

play from Jared Allen. So lucky. Like, that's a foul. I'm glad they didn't call it.

[Chris Cote]

That's a foul at any other time in any other basketball game being foul.

[Mike Ryan]

It's a foul.

[Stugotz]

He got. He got mad lucky and everyone just understood that. No one wanted to make that call. But he should have been punished for that lapse in judgment.

[Dan LeBatard]

Zebra's got to swallow the whistle there. He did and he did. I'm saying at that point, you cannot make it about you.

[Mike Ryan]

I think also part of why we're

[Stugotz]

both going for the ball.

[Mike Ryan]

I think also part of why I'm good with them not calling it. Detroit was up nine and didn't score in the final three minutes of the game. Like, get out of here with your foul.

[Dan LeBatard]

424 second violations.

[Mike Ryan]

Your loose ball foul with no time remaining to go to the free throw line. Like, I. I'm over that.

[Stugotz]

I appreciate you guys understanding the situation. I mean, could have used that kind of refereeing in the battle court final. You can't let it end on a double fall, especially when it was that close.

[Producer]

That has to be one of the more obscure ones.

[Dan LeBatard]

We did.

[Mike Ryan]

We did like a midweek highlight stream

[Stugotz]

ended up being a, you know, a playoff preview, to be fair.

[Chris Cote]

Roy, are you feel like you're hurt by me pointing out that it was a strange couple of teams to be playing in our livestream that we're, we're covering live? Colorado Avalanche and Minnesota Wild. You don't think that, that those are strange teams for us to be doing?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, first of all, you got the best team in the league versus possibly the third best team in the league

[Stugotz]

in a second round matchup in an elimination game. So there's that who's who.

[Chris Cote]

It's a playoff game.

[Stugotz]

I hate this playoff format.

[Mike Ryan]

How dumb is the format?

[Stugotz]

Because, you know, you could, you could make a solid argument. Carolina would probably protest.

[Mike Ryan]

They played the 7 and 8 to

[Stugotz]

the top three teams remaining in the playoffs. It's. It's so, it's so dumb. And you can clip this if I'm wrong and I'll wear it. I've never been more certain at this stage of a playoff of who the two main champions are going to be. It's okc. The only thing that can stop him is Wemby, and it's going to be Colorado. Colorado is so much better than everybody else. Carolina, they are so much better than everybody else. You're going to go into battle against Nathan McKinnon with Aho.

[Chris Cote]

Oh, I know.

[Producer]

I cannot wait to watch Carolina lose

[Chris Cote]

that series is what you just.

[Mike Ryan]

That's so stupid.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't know if you guys agree.

[Producer]

It feels like this playoffs, though in general is just missing a little something.

[Stugotz]

It is, right? Yes.

[Producer]

It's playoffs.

[Stugotz]

Us. It's definitely us. And a little juice.

[Dan LeBatard]

Most valuable promotions in Netflix are bringing you a blockbuster MMA event with a triple header of fan favorite fighters on Saturday, May 16. This marks Netflix's first ever MMA fight and it's going to be massive. In the main event, she returns to the Octagon. Ronda Rousey returns to shake up the world of combat sports, stepping back into the cage for the first time in nearly a decade to take on fellow women's MMA pioneer Gina Carrano. Plus, combat sports icon Nate Diaz faces off against Platinum Mike Perry, two of the toughest, most relentless fighters going head to head. Plus, the big man is back. Francis Ngannou, widely regarded as the hardest puncher in MMA history, takes on Felipe Linz in a heavyweight showdown. You will not want to miss five rounds. Five minutes each. One chance to leave it all in the cage. Don't miss it. Watch Ronda Rousey vs. Gina Carano live only on Netflix. Saturday, May 16th at 9pm Eastern, 6pm Pacific.

[Mike Ryan]

The NBA playoffs are here, and DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, brings excitement to every game all postseason long. When the lights get brightest, the best players in the world show you exactly who they are. Playoff stars turn it up round by round, and DraftKings turns it up with them from the first round through the finals. Bet player props, bet live and stay in the action the entire time. New DraftKings customers bet just $5 and you'll get $100 in bonus bets instantly. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app and use Code Dan so you're ready for the moment. That's with code DAN. Turn five bucks into $100 in bonus bets instantly. In partnership with DraftKings, the crown is yours.

[Chris Cote]

Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800- My Reset New York. Call 877-8-HOPE and wire. Text HOPE and call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf of Boothill Casino in Kansas. Wager tax pass through may apply in Illinois, 21 and over in most states. Void in Ontario, restrictions apply. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see sportsbook.draftkings.com promos Limited time offer.

[Stugotz]

You thought this was your Run Club era. Turns out it was more of a thinking about Run Club era. The good news? Someone's marathon training is about to start. Sell your workout gear on depop. Just snap a few photos and we'll take care of the rest. They get their race day fit and you get a payout for trying. Someone on Depop wants what you've got. Start selling now, Depop where taste recognizes taste.

[Mike Ryan]

Don LeBatard our panther group chat.

[Producer]

We're confident against the lighting.

[Chris Cote]

This is a different team.

[Mike Ryan]

You're a Panther group chat.

[Producer]

No, no.

[Chris Cote]

I think no.

[Producer]

But dude, you're so wrong on that. We've been terrified of this team forever

[Dan LeBatard]

and I think there's a different energy

[Producer]

where the Panthers, they want the Lightning St.

[Chris Cote]

I want T shirts made for this Panther run. What could be this Panther run? Our Panther group chat. We're not afraid of the lightning.

[Stugotz]

That's a Tagline for World Raw 3.

[Mike Ryan]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Chris Cote]

The basketball playoffs are missing a couple of different things, right? Last night's was a good game and it was a close game and an overtime game. There haven't been a ton of those. There has not been A ton of drama. Also hasn't been a ton of controversy or storylines. And when you talk to me about what happened with the end of Jared Allen's night and Cleveland's night last night, do you guys realize that what you are doing there by saying, glad the referees didn't blow the whistle? One of the things you're doing is you're rescuing Jared Allen from an all time dumb moment in Cleveland sports history. But what you're also doing is you're denying us what would have happened today, which is if Jared Allen had been called for that foul. No one would object to it being called a foul because it was so obviously a foul. It would have turned immediately into Jared Allen, you idiot. It would not have become another officiating story. Like, maybe there would have been some people saying, you don't call that in that spot. But it was obvious enough as a foul that people would not have been saying that wasn't a foul. They may have said, you don't call that in that spot. But there wouldn't have been anyone saying that's not a foul. So they let something go at the end of that game because of the situation in the States. And it's what I always want. I want an arbiter to use judgment. I don't want an arbiter to do letter of the rule. I could get. I could get AI to do letter of the rule. Jared Allen got bailed out there by the fact that in this one instance, Tony brothers decided to not be Tony brothers because of the game situation, but only because of the game situation. It was only stakes and game situation because we're all agreeing, right? Right. Absolutely. A foul. What, what Jared Allen did there at any other time during the game when Thompson falls to the floor like that, that is called a foul.

[Mike Ryan]

You want to hear J.B. bickerstaff, coach of the Pistons. Here he is after the game.

[Stugotz]

He found a star.

[Chris Cote]

It's clear. He trips him when he's going for

[Mike Ryan]

a loose ball in the game situation.

[Chris Cote]

You know, that's tough thoughts, like just, you guys are good. With the referee deciding, yeah, that my job is to call foul, you know, apply the rules. And no one would disagree with the fact, the fact that that was a foul.

[Mike Ryan]

I just, I don't think they deserve the call. They went scoreless. The final three minutes blew another.

[Chris Cote]

Adding even more context to it. So it's not about the play. It's about the last three minutes of the game.

[Stugotz]

It's fair. It would have been one hell of a bailout. For a team that choked it away,

[Mike Ryan]

they didn't earn that call.

[Stugotz]

And I do think that's part of the human judgment there. Yeah, they didn't earn it, but team don't want to earn. Even JB kind of positioned it as a trip. I don't even think so. Like, I think Jared Allen kind of forgot what moment it was there and just did a little frustration thing at the end.

[Chris Cote]

When you say are the Detroit Pistons the number one seed in the Eastern Conference ass. When you say that, it is absolutely a byproduct of them trying to win in the modern age with a style that is for cavemen and dinosaurs because they're trying to do it with physicality and four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. It's just you are super constipated and your second all star is shrinking and can't be on the court at the end of the game because you're plus 16. When he's not on the court.

[Stugotz]

It's like the opposite of the NHL regular season where last year you see a team like the Washington Capitals and you're like that style. Yeah, they're getting a lot of points in the regular season, but that's not a playoff style. And here in the regular season they just are effort all the time. Max effort. A hard team to play like you want. I don't want to play Detroit on the back end of a back to back. Are you kidding me? And then when they get to the playoffs, their talent just has a match up.

[Mike Ryan]

The Pistons are Canes basketball. Like they won a lot of regular season games.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

And they lose in the second round.

[Chris Cote]

But it's. But Canes basketball can be Canes basketball if no one around you can shoot. It can't be Pistons basketball when everyone's flying around in spaceships taking threes and you're out there in a Studebaker throwing elbows like Oooga, trying to four shot

[Stugotz]

clock violations, fourth quarter. I'll correct you, it was part of the strategy to hit the rim with Kane's basketball. They can't do that in Detroit.

[Chris Cote]

Let's talk for a second though about the changes in the sport that make the Knicks a team that could score 81 points by the half against the Sixers. And the Pistons are still out here doing it with a playoff style from the 90s. Because do you know how disorienting it is for me to watch The Knicks score 81 points and a half? When I used to watch playoff basketball that didn't get that High in a game for the Knicks. And it makes me wonder in. When I. When I go back and look from this perspective, how was I tolerating Knicks Heat basketball that was in the 70s.

[Mike Ryan]

So good.

[Chris Cote]

Like, no, but if I put that in front of you right now, you'd be saying what Mike is saying about Detroit and Cleveland are ass.

[Stugotz]

Not me.

[Chris Cote]

He's saying they're ass. You've got. Got. You've got. Basically, when they announced the starting lineups, ass. Not all star ass.

[Stugotz]

Ass.

[Chris Cote]

Ass. Because you got four shot clock violations in the fourth quarter of a playoff game where you just can't even get the shot off. What is that?

[Dan LeBatard]

It's a problem when they don't have a secondary score. Like last year, Malik Beasley hit 300 threes with six man of the year and then got run out of the sport by Pablo Torre.

[Chris Cote]

You say that Tobias Harris isn't a secondary scorer, but he has been in that series. Like, he.

[Dan LeBatard]

Guy was throwing up bricks last night. One for seven in the fourth quarter was terrible. Look, look like you out there. I think you'd go one for seven. That's actually a compliment for you.

[Chris Cote]

Why are you coming after me saying,

[Dan LeBatard]

I think you would hit one for seven.

[Chris Cote]

Why didn't you say, look like Chris Cody in a red bathrobe out there? Like, why'd you come after me? Yeah, because I'm 57.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like, no, because you're got hairy shoulders. Be funny to see you in the jersey hairy show shoulders.

[Chris Cote]

Well, you know, I do. I'm gonna. I'm gonna send you guys something right now.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't need to see your shoulders.

[Chris Cote]

No, it's not my shoulders. And I don't have hairy show boy. I don't have hairy shoulders that you

[Mike Ryan]

did a couple seconds ago.

[Chris Cote]

No, what I said is that I have here something that I want to put on the screen very quickly because there was. I sent this to Amin the other day. There was a promo for the Celtics basketball game that had Bill Russell in it, and he was going up against an Atlanta Hawk who had hairy shoulders. And I'm like. And so I was just sending it to people, hey, how did Bill Russell dominate this particular era? And they just showed some guy who had looked like he had wigs on both of his shoulders, like, had so much hair on his shoulders that you had to downgrade how good a basketball player that actually was, even though it wasn't a bad basketball player, just based on the amount of hair in his shoulders, because it looked like the guys that Philip Seymour Hoffman was playing against when he went Rain man and Ben Stiller got a smelly, hairy, sweaty belly in his face that he had to lick. And I can't imagine how many times Ben Stiller had to do that scene. Unpleasantly licking the hairy belly of a sweaty one on one player.

[Stugotz]

What's going on in basketball? I've gone back to the NBA Finals since 2019 and it's unlike any era that we've ever seen in this sport. Typically when a team makes it to the NBA Finals, they have staying power. They're going to be in the conversation for four years, five years, at the very least, they're going to be a fixture in the playoffs. Outside of Boston and okc, you've had some teams completely fall off and quickly. Now I know there's player movement and I know contextually there have been some injuries, but since 2019 we're talking Raptors, Warriors, Denver, Lakers, Pacers, Mavs, Bucks, Suns, Heat. What is happening in this sport? Is it because of the style of play that allows you to get really hot one season and you don't actually have staying power because all these teams can play the same style. It's just a matter of a three point contest.

[Chris Cote]

Let's think about this for a second because I'm trying to think, when I think of the Nets, of Vince Carter, right, they go, they visit for a year, but they get knocked off by the Spurs. The spurs stick around for a while, but the Nets can only get there for a couple of seasons.

[Stugotz]

I think it was pre Vince Carter like that was. I think this era in the Eastern Conference stand that's the exact same. Exact. I think the east is so ass. It reminds me of the years that the Nets kept going up against the Spurs.

[Chris Cote]

The funny thing about what you're saying though is I wouldn't have argued two years ago that the Celtics were ass. Like I.

[Stugotz]

No, I put them in my list of two teams that have had staying power and they just got bounced in the first round.

[Chris Cote]

But what just happened to them was something that surprised me because I'm expecting the Celtics to be around for a while. And you're not wrong when you say historically that doesn't get knocked off in the first round. Seeing Denver knocked off in the first round after winning a championship to me was a celebration of how tough the west is. But that's not what I'm doing with the Celtics in the East.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, yeah, for Boston, I mean, it also hurts that Jaylen Brown clearly wants out. Like that's. Like that. That's going to hurt their staying power.

[Stugotz]

I mean, again, they're prop, they're on the middle stand, gold standard type of saying power in this era since 2019. And they've even reshaped their team. They're teams that have completely fallen off, that have kept their stars like the Heat, like the Suns, like the Bucks. I think this has basically become a league where if you get hot or you go cold in the postseason from long distance, is that not good? That is history altering. Where before you had teams that if you had your guys under contract for four years, you'd be there every year. You can't say that. I mean, seven months after making it to the Finals, the Mavs are destined for the number one pick in the league.

[Mike Ryan]

It's seven straight years of a brand new champion. That's never happened.

[Chris Cote]

No, but what he's doing there, though, the thing that he's doing there, that is, it's Milwaukee going from being that good to being awful. Indiana going from being that good to being awful. Dallas going from being that good to being awful.

[Dan LeBatard]

But there's answers for all that, right? Like Giannis got hurt. They didn't have a good team around him. Halliburton, Torres, Achilles, the Pacers were completely done.

[Stugotz]

I understand.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like, there's a lot of injuries in that list that throw off those guys.

[Stugotz]

Explain Denver, right? I know there's great Western Conference. There's. There's been player movement now for like 25 years in this sport and guys suffered through injuries. Look, when the Miami Heat lost their best player in Alonzo Mourning, they were still upset in the first round. Other playoffs, they got to the playoffs. You're having teams become lottery teams now in the NBA. I think it's become a sport with a lot more variance in terms of all time greatness.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'd also like to amend my list of yeses earlier. I want to throw Kawhi back into the yes column after some stuff. And also Kade, I want to throw back into the yes column.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, so we're closer to 15 is what we're doing.

[Chris Cote]

I don't know.

[Dan LeBatard]

Roy didn't keep count.

[Chris Cote]

Ass. Kade's over there didn't have a pattern.

[Dan LeBatard]

Chris didn't keep count.

[Chris Cote]

It's the combination though, Mike. It's the variances on the threes and also just a spectacular amount injuries that make it so the players are broken because the sport's a little bit broken ass.