Hour 2 – Disappointing Playoff Calls, Jason Garrett

Summary

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The Dan Patrick Show

Hour 2 – Disappointing Playoff Calls, Jason Garrett
January 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the pain and controversy of memorable NFL playoff calls—focusing on critical officiating moments that haunt teams and fan bases. Dan Patrick invites fans to share the moments they can't get over, discusses football coaching vacancies, and welcomes former Cowboys head coach Jason Garrett to reflect on infamous calls (notably the Dez Bryant catch), his recent head coaching interview, and NFL culture.

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Key Discussion Points

1. NFL's Most Guttural "Bad Calls" & Fan Misery

[00:39–19:02; 39:09–46:10]

• Opening Topic: The lingering agony of questionable playoff officiating, kicked off by Buffalo Bills fans’ reaction to a recent controversial interception call.

  • Dan Patrick ([00:39]): “Instead of blaming who you need to blame, and that's Josh Allen, you're going to blame the official... But to say we're going to hold that official accountable, that's why we didn't advance, you'd be incorrect...”

• Fan Phone-In: Playoff Haunts:

  • Caller, Chris in Minnesota ([06:12]): The Tuck Rule game (Raiders vs. Patriots, 2002): “That play just guts me because that ball is pointed right down in the bottom of the ground when he gets sacked. So I don’t understand ever…”
  • Caller, Mark in Charleston ([07:14]): Super Bowl 49 (Seahawks at the goal line, Malcolm Butler INT): “You got Beast Mode sitting right there... and what does Pete Carroll do?... slant pass and it goes right into the sturdy hands of a rookie, Malcolm Butler...Good night, game over.”
  • Dan Patrick ([08:14]): “I thought, okay, they either give it to Marshawn Lynch or you have a run pass option with Russell Wilson... Did not think that throwing the ball over the middle because when he did it I went, 'Oh bleep.'... Malcolm Butler, what an unbelievable play.”
  • Caller, Kevin in Cleveland ([09:22]): Red Right 88 (Browns, 1981): “Is it unhealthy that every January 4th since then I walk around with a knot in my stomach?”
  • Caller, Brian in Missouri ([10:46]): 2018 AFC Championship (Dee Ford offside): “Freakin' Dee Ford lines up offsides. Chiefs intercept Brady. They are going to go to the Super Bowl… and Dee Ford can’t line up.”
  • Caller, Curtis in Illinois ([13:15]): 2012’s “Fail Mary” (Packers-Seahawks): “As a Packers fan isn’t bad enough this time of year, but just reliving that one... it’s gotta be the worst officiated play in NFL history.”
  • Extended misery: Cam Newton “not diving” (2016 Super Bowl), John Kasay out-of-bounds kick (2004), Gary Anderson’s missed FG (1998 NFC Championship), The Immaculate Reception.

• Dan Patrick Summing Up the Appeal:

  • ([12:01]): “I like how we're tapping into people's misery. We're trying to make Buffalo Bills fans feel a little bit better today.”

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2. The "Worst Coaching Job" Thought Experiment

[03:18–05:54]

• Danettes’ Poll Question: Would you rather be the head coach of the Cleveland Browns or an offensive coordinator elsewhere?
  • Majority: OC elsewhere.
• Dan Patrick Breakdown ([04:13]): “I think there's promise in Cleveland, but you got to get a quarterback because I don't think you have a starting quarterback in the building... Arizona is the place I don’t want to go unless I retire... Jets situation, I don’t like that either.”
• Detailed discussion of which NFL jobs are least attractive and why.

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3. Baseball Hall of Fame Snubs

[13:46–19:02]

• Danettes’ Poll: Biggest hall of fame snub—Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, or Steve Garvey?
• Dan Patrick ([14:07]): “Murph was... so close... two MVPs… Hall of Very Good.”
• Marv ([14:49]): “Mattingly being a great player and not winning with the Yankees definitely hurts... He didn’t play for 20 years. His great years are probably 10.”
• Dan Patrick ([15:01]): “I think Mattingly was a better player than Kirby Puckett, but Kirby was so instrumental in the Twins winning a couple of World Series titles.”
• Discussion on how postseason, longevity, and “intangibles” factor in voting, plus the steroids era complicating things for players like Bonds and A-Rod.
  • ([16:36]) “If you want to put Bonds in and... we bring this up every year at this time. Or A-Rod, just put it on their plaque. Put...something that denotes what happened, you know.”

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4. Guest Interview: Jason Garrett

[23:48–36:43]

The Dez Bryant Non-Catch and NFL catch rules

• Dan Patrick ([23:48]): “You were the coach of the Cowboys for the Dez Bryant play. Is that your toughest play?”
• Jason Garrett ([23:56]): “I would say two plays. The Dez Bryant play would be one, and then... a couple years later... Aaron Rodgers rolled left and made that amazing throw. So yeah, we had a couple interesting ones…”
• Garrett on Dez Bryant Call ([24:26–26:48]):
  • “I feel like I’m an expert in this area... how long do you need to catch the ball? ...If you look at the Dez Bryant play... he does one of the most amazing catches... switches hands, gets one foot down, two foot down, the third, he lunges. So he switched hands. He’s gotten the feet down, lunges... These are all football moves over five yards... for them to come back and say he needs to survive the ground... I’m like, how many times have I heard from you guys, ‘He doesn’t even have to make a football move, he just needs time enough.’ And... he made seven football moves.”
  • “It was ruled a catch on the field... So for them to come into it afterwards and say... it’s indisputable that this is not a catch... it was really a hard thing for me to comprehend... It took them about five years to quietly try to change it, but I think we’re...back to that same place, and I think it’s frustrating for a lot of people.”
• Garrett’s Regret:
  • ([27:46]) “I have a regret about that play... I wish I should have said...there’s no excuses...but [that] was one of the greatest catches in the history... and for me… this play should have been in the lore… and somehow it got caught up in officiating…”

On the Bills-Broncos Interception Call

• Garrett’s Take ([26:53]): “I still think it’s a catch…I mean, for him to make that catch, secure the ball, go to the ground, be touched, and then have the defender rip the ball out when they’re on the ground—what are we doing? You know, it’s a catch.”

On Interviewing for the Tennessee Head Coaching Job

• Garrett on the Experience ([29:30]):
  • “Great experience, really like Mike Borgonzi, their general manager... The interview was supposed to be like...from 9 to 12, we went from 9:15 to close to 3 o'clock.”
  • ([30:10]) "No, not so much that more than just I love talking football and, and I really like the guys they put together there...There's a blank canvas down there. A really good young quarterback, an elite defensive player... it was just fun talking ball and sharing your vision for what the team can be..."

On Coaching Vacancies and Pressure

• Dan Patrick ([32:09]): “Normally you don’t have, you know, playoff teams, changing coaches... You go into Buffalo, you’re expected to go to the AFC title game...”
• Garrett ([32:41]): “Yeah, there’s no doubt...those are not easy things to do...you got to be careful about trying to copy the guy who was there before. You better be yourself. I think a lot of mistakes are made when guys try to copy what’s been there. Be yourself and get yourself going.”

On the Boring Excellence of Seattle and Coaching Culture

• Garrett ([34:41]):
  • Praises Seattle’s team building, especially their defense and new coach Mike Macdonald:
  • “He was so honest and humble. He said, last year, I had no idea what I was doing... After the season, got a chance to sit down and really think about what you want to build here... This has to be our culture and the environment we create. So keeping some of the good stuff from Pete Carroll... the Ravens... from our players and coaches...”
  • ([36:40]) “He’s so good at what he does, but he’s so humble... John Schneider, great job with the personnel... I love their team.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Patrick on Playoff Pain
  “I like how we're tapping into people's misery. We're trying to make Buffalo Bills fans feel a little bit better today.” ([12:01])

• Jason Garrett on Dez Bryant “Catch”
  “He made seven football moves over the course of five yards. And then... it was ruled a catch on the field...So for them to come into it afterwards and say it's indisputable that this is not a catch... It was really a hard thing for me to comprehend.” ([24:26–26:48])

• Jason Garrett on Officiating Overshadowing Play
  “I hate as a fan of football that officiating in these big games is what the conversation is.” ([29:09])

• Dan Patrick on Defensive Reputation in Baseball
  “It's weird how we use somebody's defensive abilities or liabilities. I've heard many, many, many times that the Joker can't play defense. Steph Curry can't play defense... Never heard somebody say, man, he can play defense.” ([17:07])

• Caller on Immaculate Reception Statue
  “Every time I fly into Pittsburgh airport, I have to look at that stupid statue of Franco Harris bent over catching the ball. And the problem with the statue is the ball is off the ground. It was not off the ground.” ([43:54])

• Garrett on Coaching Job Interviews
  “I love talking football and I really like the guys they put together there... There's a blank canvas down there... It was just fun talking ball and sharing your vision for what the team can be.” ([30:10])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:39 – Dan’s opening on Bills fans & controversial playoff calls
• 06:12–14:05 – Fan pain stories: The Tuck Rule, Malcolm Butler pick, Red Right 88, Dee Ford offside, Fail Mary, and more
• 13:46–19:02 – Baseball Snubs: Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, Steve Garvey, steroids era’s mark
• 23:48–36:43 – Jason Garrett interview: Dez Bryant play, Bills-Broncos call, head coaching interview stories, Seattle’s culture
• 39:09–46:10 – Listeners continue NFL playoff heartbreak stories: Cam Newton’s Super Bowl moment, John Kasay kick, Gary Anderson miss, Immaculate Reception

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Tone & Style

The trademark tone is a blend of candid sports analysis, affectionate ribbing, and personal storytelling. Dan Patrick keeps things breezy yet emotionally real, even as guests and callers recount the NFL’s toughest heartbreaks. Jason Garrett is measured, insightful, and humble, especially on rules controversies and coaching philosophy.

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Useful for Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This hour brings emotional catharsis for NFL fans, capturing how iconic moments—often dictated by split-second officiating—shape franchise and personal sports histories. Jason Garrett’s candidness about historic moments and the pressure of the NFL coaching carousel offers insiders’ perspective, making this episode both therapeutic and informative for any passionate sports listener.

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Transcript

[Caller]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Questlove]

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[Dan Patrick]

Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy alliance today. RingCentral's AI receptionist uses Voice AI to answer on the first ring so you'll never miss a call again. In just a few minutes, you can personalize your own AI receptionist to answer questions, route calls, schedule appointments and even send texts in multiple languages. Plus, it's easy to scale create unlimited AI receptionists across any phone system. It's all powered by one reliable platform for effortless AI communications. See for yourself at RingCentral.com, ring Central Voice of your business. You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio Hour 2 on this Wednesday Dan and the Danettes Dan Patrick Show. We'll talk some football with Jason Garrett from Football Night in America. And how much pressure are these coaching candidates going to face going into some of these jobs? 8773, DP show email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle @dpshow Good morning those watching on Peacock and listening on our radio affiliates around the country. Stat of the Day brought to you by Panini America. The official trading cards of the Dan Patrick Show Poll. Question More stats of the day Coming up, Reggie Miller will join us in the final hour of the program. We stumbled upon a topic, a question for you the audience in the first hour because Buffalo Bills fans are not going to let go of that interception and instead of blaming who you need to blame, and that's Josh Allen, you're going to blame the official. The more I see it, the more I hear from former players, certainly defensive backs and wide receivers, they made the right call. Now in the moment, I didn't think they did and I didn't think once they called it an interception, I thought there's no way they'll be able to overturn this. And if you had called it the other way, you wouldn't have been able to overturn it. I don't think if you looked at it again. But to say we're going to hold that official accountable, that's why we didn't advance, you'd be incorrect with that, and you would be holding on to something that's really not fair to the totality of the way your team played. You should have won the game. You should have won the game. You had the best player on the field and he didn't play well. Seaton poll question results from hour one, and then we'll look ahead for hour two.

[Danettes/Panelist]

Let's see, we have up there. Would you rather be the head coach of the Cleveland Browns or an offensive coordinator somewhere else? That's holding steady at about 82% of the audience would rather be an offensive coordinator somewhere else.

[Dan Patrick]

All right. In fairness to what we're talking about, Mike McDaniel wasn't offered the head coaching job in Cleveland. He took his name out of the running, and now he's expected to be the offensive coordinator with the Chargers.

[Danettes/Panelist]

Some people saying that's not fair because, say, a job like the Chargers or the Lions are different types of jobs than the offensive coordinator of, I don't.

[Dan Patrick]

Know, not good team like the Titans, perhaps. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[Paulie]

Paul, do you want to play the game? If all NFL jobs were open today for the same pay, which is the last one you take because it feels like everyone's putting the Browns in that list.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes.

[Paulie]

Is there a worse situation?

[Dan Patrick]

I think Tennessee is promising, but once again, it goes back to can you trust ownership in the front office? I mean, you're bringing in Robert Salah. Okay. Who's your offensive coordinator to help Cam Ord. But I do think you got a lot of cap space there. I would say that, you know, there's. There's promise there. I think there's promise in Cleveland, but you got to get a quarterback because I don't think you have a starting quarterback in the building. You got a pretty good defense. You got the defensive player of the year, the defensive rookie of the year. Okay, but how are your skill position players? You know, now you're in a division that feels like it's in. In a state of flux. Arizona is the place I don't want to go unless I retire. Then I'd be fine going there. But if I'm going to coach. No, they. They lost like 14 of their last 15. The Raiders situation, I gotta lean on Brady. That Brady Will get it right. And Brady was at the national title game. And from what I was told, coaching candidates were encouraged to fly there so they could do all their meetings there. Jets situation. I don't like that either. It's kind of the same bottom feeders, you know, that's why they're always in the topic, you know, conversation with the draft. Top five. Yeah.

[Paulie]

Paul, going back to the Browns, they were 5 and 12 and they were outscored by 100 points this weekend or last year they did have a top 15 defense. For example, the jets were outscored by 203 points. Raiders by 191. The Arizona Cardinals by 133. Those are the futile teams.

[Dan Patrick]

Some phone calls here with these bad moments that you get to revisit here on the program. Chris in Minnesota, what's the moment you can't move on from?

[Caller]

Thanks, Dan. First time, long time. First off, I just want to thank you, Dan, for all the years in case I never get to call you again. And thank you and hopefully you enjoy your retirement in two years. For me as a Raiders fan, it's the tuck rule. You know, the tuck rule game, I think it was what the divisional playoff. I can't remember the year, but man, that for that rule to now be non existent and now here it's. It was so crucial to that Raiders team and you know, obviously the legend of Tom Brady was that was a big stepping stone for him to win that year. But then that play just guts me because that ball is pointed right down in the bottom of the ground when he gets sacked. So I don't understand ever. I will ever understand how that's not a. Or how that's a incompletion.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. When a game has a name, a nickname attached to it, you know, that's one that's not going away anytime soon. Mark in Charleston. Hi, Mark. What's on your mind?

[Caller]

Hey, Dan. Appreciate it.

[Dan Patrick]

Yep.

[Caller]

First or longtime listener? I just like to point out as a fan base, I'll set the scene. It's Super Bowl 49. You're a Seahawks fan. You're watching your team on the goal line ready to put a dagger in the Patriots. You got beast mode sitting right there waiting to just steamroll anybody in front of you. And what does Pete Carroll do? As smart of a coach as he is, he dials up this bush league slant pass and it goes right into the sturdy hands of a rookie, Malcolm Butler at the time. And then of course, Brady does his best Tom Brady impression, takes it down the Field scores a game winner for, for them. Good night. Game over. Drive home safely.

[Dan Patrick]

Wait, I thought after Malcolm Butler had the interception, they just ran out of, ran out the clock. They didn't. Tom didn't take him down for a touchdown.

[Caller]

Tom prior to that had taken him down and he was doing okay.

[Dan Patrick]

Oh, yeah, okay, yeah. Because I'm in the end zone. I'm, I'm standing underneath the goal post and it's one of those. I'll, I'll never forget watching that unfold because I thought, okay, they either give it to Marshawn lynch or you have a run pass option with Russell Wilson. Therefore he can throw the ball away. Maybe he runs it in for a touchdown. I did not think that throwing the ball over the middle because when he did it I went, oh bleep. Cuz it was so tight, the traffic in there. But Malcolm Butler, what an unbelievable play. Might be the greatest play in super bowl history, isn't it? Could it be?

[Paulie]

A loss became a win.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes. And for what Brady's resume is and Belichick's resume, what was attached to that?

[Marv]

Yes, Marvin, you hit it on the head. That one play differentiates whether Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman, Pete Carroll gets into the hall of Fame or not.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. Kevin in Cleveland. Hi, Kevin.

[Caller]

Hey, DP Dan. It's a 57 and according to WebMD, morbidly obese. You may be the only one amongst the guys that remember this, but red, right? 88. January 4, 1981. Raiders, Browns. I was 18 years old at the time. I saw it and wept in front of the tv and is it unhealthy? Just last question. Is it unhealthy that every January 4th since then I walk around with a knot in my stomach? My wife. Yes, I think it's justified.

[Dan Patrick]

What? Describe the play to the audience.

[Caller]

Okay. The play was 13 seconds left, I believe, and the Browns had a Choice. It was 37 below zero. The Browns had a choice to kick a field goal and win the game or go for a touchdown. And Sam Rutigliano, the coach at the time, decided this play and Brian Sipe threw it and made was an interception. Game over. It was. I don't know if you could. You could hear a pin drop in the stadium at the time that it happened.

[Dan Patrick]

And you know, you could have picked the Ernest Byner fumble. John Elway's drive was a series of plays there, but Ernest Biner, the fumble. Yeah. Brian Site might have been MVP that year as well. Brian in Missouri. Hey, Brian.

[Caller]

Hey, good morning, Dan. First of all, let Me say that the fact that you guys don't have a sports Emmy should be investigated by, I don't know, Congress.

[Dan Patrick]

Congress has more important things.

[Jason Garrett]

Not really.

[Danettes/Panelist]

Not really.

[Caller]

It's criminal.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you, Brian. Thank you.

[Caller]

My. My play is the 2018 AFC Championship game when freak indeed. Ford lines up offsides. The Chiefs intercept Brady. They are going to go to the Super Bowl. It's Patrick Mahomes first year as a starter. He's thrown for over 5,000 yards passing and if I'm not mistaken, 50 touchdowns. And Dee Ford can't line up.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, but you made up for that with, with some Super Bowls.

[Paulie]

Yes, Paulie, but if they don't win a bunch of Super Bowls after that, that play has a lot more legendary status. I'm looking at it right now. Dee Ford's a foot over the line of scrimmage.

[Dan Patrick]

Mike Jones tackling Kevin Dyson at the one yard line. Yeah, Paulie.

[Paulie]

Now I just looked at that play when Mike Jones made that tackle on Dyson. And if they score and go for one, obviously it goes to overtime. So it's not a loss different than Malcolm Butler.

[Dan Patrick]

Jesse in Kansas. I like how we're tapping into people's misery. We're trying to make Buffalo Bills fans feel a little bit better today. What do you have for me, Jess?

[Caller]

Hey, third time, long time, young blooded, old school. I've got two, Dan. But real fast, if I can say I called in last year at the draft to tell you guys about my son that was in the NICU and I might need your help, Dan, just in case. But he's doing great. He's almost 1 years old. He has a cerebral palsy diagnosis. He's not as effective as most kids and he's super happy and curious. But I didn't get to say thank you to you guys. To you. The Dan nets, the backroom guys, Stephen Wilson Jr. The song twist this, you know, really helped me out, you guys. We didn't have a lot of time, you know, you know what you do for people. But just want you know, you have an audience of people. I'm not in a hospital bed every day, but I'm trauma bound to your show three hours a day because I need you guys. You help me get through my life. So just wanted to say that.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you. Thank you, Jess. Thank you. Curtis in Illinois. Hi, Curtis.

[Caller]

Adp, the game that lives just rent free in my head still to this day is the 2012 Fail Mary again. I still as it live in Illinois. Being a Packers fan isn't bad Enough this time of year, but just reliving that one. And I still hate Russell Wilson and the Seahawks. Word. Because it's got to be the worst officiated play in NFL history.

[Dan Patrick]

There's a. There's a list of those plays, but thank you, Curtis Seaton. Did we come up with a poll question for hour two?

[Danettes/Panelist]

Well, I've been trying to wait to see how this topic shakes out, to see if one presents itself about worst calls or worst plays, most painful plays, etc. We do have one here from Marvin about the biggest Baseball hall of Fame snub. Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly or Steve Garvey. Oh, that's fun. Okay, I like that. We'll throw that one up there.

[Jason Garrett]

All right.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, Murph was. He was so close. It felt like two MVPs didn't win anything. Except for one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life. Went from being a catcher to a center fielder. But he's in the hall of Good. Very good. He's on the hall of Very Good. Mattingly adding Lee was like, two years, two good years away, I feel like. And if he won a World Series like they did that next year, he's probably in the hall of Fame. And Garvey, to me, is a Hall of Famer. When you say the name, I go, yeah, okay, yeah, hall of Famer. Yeah. Mark.

[Marv]

Yeah. I think Dom Medley being a great player and not winning with the Yankees definitely hurts the resume. And him not playing a really long time, it's not like he played for 20 years. His great years are probably 10.

[Dan Patrick]

I think Mattingly was a better player than Kirby Puckett, but Kirby was so instrumental in the Twins winning a couple of World Series titles. And he also had the injury as well, because I think you have to play a minimum of 10 years. Is that what it is? But, yeah, it's tricky with the hall of Fame because we tend to throw, I don't know, people's names or stats, what they did, what they didn't do. I mean, it's their life. I mean, it's the most important thing in their. In their life or at least their career, the hall of Fame. And, you know, we tend to kind of go, wow, this and that, and what did he do? And then, you know, post season, and, you know, they're just. There's a lot of things involved. And then, of course, you throw in the steroids, because, you know, that's tricky. But I do think somewhere down the road, a whole new wave of younger writers will look at Steroids differently. I do think that it's. It's the era. The era that these guys were in. And. And if. If you want to put Bonds in and, you know, we. We bring this up every year at this time. Or a rod, just put it on their plaque. Put up. Put something that denotes what happened, you know, But Bonds was never like, that's trickier. A rod. Know, they popped him twice. Like, he shouldn't be involved in baseball at all. Now. He's one of the faces of baseball.

[Marv]

Yes, Marv, Steve Garvey was before my time, but was there a signature moment? Like, I know he had a great playoff run as far as batting average, but does he have that signature home run Allah. David Ortiz, where you can point to something that he did in the postseason?

[Dan Patrick]

No, he played in one World Series, but he was very good in the postseason. I mean, he had numbers. And nationally Championship series. Was he two. Two World Series or one?

[Paulie]

One. Dan, he hit.325 in that world Series.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay. Yeah. And, you know, with my source saying, hey, Garvey, whenever his name comes up, the voters, writers tend to chop him up like, you know, it's Benihana with his defense. Well, he did win four Gold Gloves. I don't know. Seems like that's better than average. It's weird how we use somebody's defensive abilities or liabilities. I've heard many, many, many times that the Joker can't play defense. Steph Curry can't play defense. I don't know if Shea, Gilgis, Alexander can play defense. I've never heard somebody say, man, he can play defense. It's. He gets a lot of free throws and he'll be the MVP again this year. Yes, Paulie.

[Paulie]

It is frustrating also when. When certain players like a Steve Garvey or whoever you want to talk about, Dale Murphy, they're in their late 70s. And you want to do it now.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Paulie]

You want to let them enjoy it now because where would be. Where would the outrage be if Steve Garvey got into the hall of Fame? None.

[Dan Patrick]

No, there wouldn't be none. Yeah. Yeah.

[Danettes/Panelist]

It does feel weird to hold the defensive abilities of a baseball player against them when they have a position called designated hitter.

[Dan Patrick]

They don't have a designated fielder. But I remember Frank Thomas won the mvp and, you know, people were like, not a very good defender, a pretty good at offense. I mean, Rafael Palmero won a Gold Glove, and I think he played less than 10 games at first base. Like, how's that possible? Must have been 10 great games.

[Paulie]

Lights out.

[Dan Patrick]

It must have been the most unbelievable performance there. So when you get these awards, I don't know what it nobody cares about Gold Glove. Now back back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, it felt like it was important, but I don't think it is now.

[Marv]

Yes, Marv, is it because baseball is out of the national consciousness?

[Dan Patrick]

Well, we look at baseball as you either strike somebody out or you hit a home run. I don't think we look at it as, boy, they got a great defensive team.

[Marv]

So what if Ozzie Smith been a big star like he was in the 80s in today's game?

[Dan Patrick]

No, no, I don't think so. All right, let me take a break. Jason Garrett will join us. We'll talk some of these coaching vacancies. He interviewed for the Tennessee job. He'll join us next here. Dan PATRICK SHOW Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific.

[Jason Garrett]

On Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.

[Dan Patrick]

Hey, is Cavino and Rich from Fox Sports Radio. Now, in addition to hearing us live.

[Jason Garrett]

Weekdays from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2.

[Dan Patrick]

To 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.

[Jason Garrett]

We'Re excited to announce a brand new YouTube channel for the show.

[Dan Patrick]

Yup, that's right. You can now watch Covino ENRICH Live on YouTube every day. All you gotta do search COVINO and RICH FSR on YouTube again.

[Jason Garrett]

Go to YouTube search COVINOENRICH FSR.

[Dan Patrick]

Check us out on YouTube. Subscribe, hit that thumbs up icon and comment away.

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All?

[Questlove]

This is Questlove. Recently I had the opportunity to sit down with ASAP Rocky ahead of his album release. Don't be dumb. He reflects on his journey from his Harlem roots to global icon status, discovering the hip hop origin of his name. The ledge was on the tv. Rakim had the bucket hat Kango joint on. Pops was like, that's Rakim. That's who you nameked after. I just was like, damn that got swag. Rocky offers a window into not only a boundary breaking artist, but as a man committed to fusing creative ideas, community and remaining unapologetically himself. Have you ever gotten roasted for any of your outfits? For sure. Some people don't be getting the vision. Look, they could roast me, they could cook me, they could deep fry me, they could saute whatever they want. Nobody with my fashion sense and my taste is impeccable. I'm just like, I impress myself a lot. It's an amazing conversation, one you definitely don't want to miss. So listen to the Questlove show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[John Palk]

I'm John Palk. For years I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex gay who married an ex lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. Once upon a time I was on 60 Minutes, Oprah, the front cover of Newsweek, and you might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. So join me as I peel back the layers and expose what happened to me in the midst of conversion therapy to shine a light on what the ex game movement does to people and the pain it continues to cause.

[Questlove]

I had lost £150 because if I.

[Dan Patrick]

Couldn'T control my sexuality, I was going to control my weight.

[Jason Garrett]

It sounded like, and this is the word I used, occult.

[John Palk]

And as I look too at the harm I did from within, listen to atonement, the John Paulk story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dan Patrick]

New year, new goals. And in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the how to Money podcast. And every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Jason Garrett, NBC Football Night in America studio analyst, former Cowboys head coach. Back on the program, we were just talking about painful moments. Yeah. You know, Buffalo Bills fans having a hard time getting over that interception. And you were the coach of the Cowboys for the DEZ Bryant play.

[Jason Garrett]

I was.

[Dan Patrick]

Is that your toughest play? That, like that still stays with you. Of all the plays when you were coaching or a player, you know, I.

[Jason Garrett]

Would say two plays. The Des Bryant play would be one, and then the other play was a couple years later in the divisional round when, when Aaron Rodgers rolled left and made that amazing throw. So yeah, we had a couple interesting ones at the end of games, you know, with a chance to go to the NFC championship game, and they go right to the end of the end of the game against the packers and Aaron Rodgers.

[Dan Patrick]

But the Des Bryant call, what were you told in the moment and, and were you okay with what they told you about that non touchdown?

[Jason Garrett]

Well, I feel like I'm an expert in this area because I've talked about this a lot with a lot of people through the years. I was, I was bothered by the call for a couple different reasons. The number of times I had heard prior to that play, you know, how long do you need to catch the ball? And there was always this idea of, hey, all you need is time enough to make a football move. And the officials who would tell me this, they would say, hey, he doesn't have to make a football move. It's just time enough to make a football move. And if you look at the, if you look at the DEZ Bryan play, you know, he catches the ball just outside the five yard line. It was one of the most amazing catches, I believe, in the history of football. He catches it and he switches hands with it. He gets one foot down, two foot down, the third, he lunges. So he switched hands. He's gotten the feet down, lunges. A football move. He has the ball here, he extends it. These are all football moves over the course of five yards. So he's essentially running with the ball to get himself down there to make that extension. And you know, for them to come back and say he needs to survive the ground, this thing that, that seemed to trump everything else. You know, I'm like, how many times have I heard from you guys, he doesn't even have to make a football move. He just needs time enough. And literally he made seven football moves over the course of five yards. And then the other part of it is it was ruled to catch on the field by a guy who was standing right there. And so for them to come into it afterwards and say, you know, it's indisputable that this is not a catch. It was really a hard thing for me to, to comprehend. And, and if you remember, after that, it started with Calvin Johnson and then it was the Des play. And then for about three or four years after that, every, every catch was or non catch was viewed through that same prism. And they completely screwed up what a catch was. I mean, guys are running down the field stumbling, and they have it for 10 yards, but he falls down, and all of a sudden that's not a catch. And so a little bit like the tuck rule, it took him about five years to quietly try to change it, but I think we're kind of back to that same place, and I think it's frustrating for a lot of people.

[Dan Patrick]

What did you think in the moment of the interception in the Broncos Bills game?

[Jason Garrett]

I, I, I still think it's a catch. I do. You know, a hundred years ago in football, you had to tackle a guy and lay on top of him and keep him down. If you look at the old films, they tackle him and the guy keeps getting back up. Right. That, that's rugby. We're not, we're not playing rugby. Right. We're playing football. So for him to make that catch, secure the ball, go to the ground, be touched, and then have the defender rip the ball out when they're on the ground, what are we doing? You know, it's a catch.

[Dan Patrick]

I thought it was a catch in the moment. And the more I looked at it, the more it felt like the defender was getting his hands on the ball before they, they hit the ground. I was, first of all, I was surprised that they called it an interception, and I knew they weren't going to overturn it. If they called it a catch, I don't think they would have overturned it either.

[Jason Garrett]

Yeah. And again, that's what takes me back to the Des Brian play. It was called a catch. And to say indisputable evidence overturns it. You know, I have a regret about, about that play, Dan, afterwards in the game. You know, as a head coach, you're always preaching no excuses. And, you know, I talked to our guys about, hey, that was one play we had 56 minutes before, we had four minutes afterwards to win that game. So we're not going to, we're not going to rely on officials to make the right calls. It's our job as players and coaches. Having said that, something I wish I should have said was, in the moment, I get all that. There's no excuses. We had our opportunities, but Tony Romo made an amazing throw, and Dennis Bryant made one of the greatest catches in the history of National Football League. And for me, as a coach, as a former player, and as a fan of football, this, this play should have been in the lure of Bradshaw to swan over Mark Washington in The super bowl falling, stumbling down. There should have been Roger Stall, back to Butch Johnson, all of those amazing plays in the history of the game. And, and somehow it got caught up in officiating. And I, and I thought about this the other day because coming out of that game, what did we talk about? We talked about a catcher, no catch or an interception. And then we talked about the past interferences on the following drive, right? They let the players play a certain way the whole game and then all of a sudden we're calling these plays at the end and, and I have nothing against Denver. They did a fantastic job all year long. But I hate as a fan of football that officiating in these big games is what the conversation is.

[Dan Patrick]

What was it like to interview for the Tennessee job?

[Jason Garrett]

Great experience, really like Mike Borgonzi, their general manager, Dave Ziggler's, their assistant General Manager, Reggie McKenzie's there, Chad Brinker. Really good guys. You know, I went down there, the interview was supposed to be like, I think from 9 to 12, we went from about 9:15 to close to 3 o'.

[Danettes/Panelist]

Clock.

[Jason Garrett]

So, you know, plenty of time to talk about football and a vision for the team.

[Dan Patrick]

But are you thinking the long team, the longer it goes that like, you know, if it's only going to go three hours and now it goes close to six hours in your mind, are you going to, you call your wife and you say, man, I killed it, you know.

[Jason Garrett]

No, not so much that more than just I love talking football and, and I really like the guys they put together there, some former general managers coming together and I think they have shared values and how to build the team in a lot of ways. There's a blank canvas down there. A really good young quarterback, an elite defensive player playing defensive line form. So he's awesome. And, and it was, it was, it was just fun talking ball and sharing your vision for what the team can be and a really good experience talking.

[Dan Patrick]

To Jason Garrett, NBC Football Night America studio analyst. If you're coaching the Broncos, how do you use Jared Stidham and are you using him in a way that you are not? Wouldn't be using Bo Nix.

[Jason Garrett]

You know, I think Sean will do a great job with him. I played for Sean for three years. I think one of his great traits is creating a comfortable environment for quarterback and I think he'll do that. I think stadium skill set is actually pretty similar to Bo Nix's. They both do a good job with movement plays, play action type stuff. Certainly capable for, for throwing the ball from the pocket you know, the concern is Jared Stidham has started four games in the NFL, so he does not have that much experience. So even though he's played in the NFL for a while, he hasn't taken these game snaps, certainly not in the AFC Championship game. So I think Sean will have that in the forefront of his mind. He'll get him comfortable in the game, run the ball movement, plays, screens, those kinds of things. Get him some completion. You know, the guys at NBC hear me say this all the time. Get him five completions before he even knows he's out there. You know, and I think that's a big thing as a. As a coordinator. That's always what you're trying to do for your quarterbacks, certainly in big moments like this. So I think their skill sets are the same. I don't think they'll have to change that much. But I think Sean will be mindful of how much he hasn't played. I think he'll try to get him comfortable.

[Dan Patrick]

I'm wondering about these coaching vacancies, the pressure. I mean, normally you don't have, you know, playoff teams, changing coaches. You go into Buffalo, you're expected to go to the AFC title game. I'm guessing you go to Baltimore, you're expected to go to the AFC title game. You go into Pittsburgh, you're expected to make the playoffs. This isn't Arizona. This is in Tennessee. This is in Cleveland. I can't remember where you had vacancies where the pressure was this, you know, ratcheted, this high.

[Jason Garrett]

Yeah, there's no doubt. And those are really good coaches who had coached for a long time and built amazing programs and to replace those guys and then, you know, like you said, ratchet it up, take it to the next level. Those are not easy things to do. I do think they're really good organizations. Steelers is a great organization. Ravens, great organization. So Buffalo, really good organization. So I do think that they have some things in place there that you like in all those spots. There's no question about that for me. You know, the other thing, you know, some of those teams that have not been as good, you know, all of a sudden you're looking at what Mike Vrabel did in New England. Hey, they won four. They won four games last year and then the AFC Championship game. So all of a sudden there's an expectation there that you're supposed to flip it around in year one. And I think ownership in those spots needs to be careful. I think those are exceptions. Go back in the history of football. It's hard to turn things around. And then even if you look at a team like Washington, Dan Quinn did such an amazing job in year one, and now they've kind of fallen back to the mean, if you will. So I think you want to build it the right way, regardless of where you're coming from. And if you go into those places, you got to be careful about trying to copy the guy who was there before. You better be yourself. I think a lot of mistakes are made when guys try to copy what's been there. Be yourself and get yourself going.

[Dan Patrick]

Feels like we're not going to give Seattle credit until we see Seattle winning a Super Bowl. Like, it just felt like regular season. Okay. I mean, toughest division, and it almost feels like people are rooting for the Rams because the Rams look like, you know, hey, I got Stafford there, and I got Puka nakua and Sean McVeigh. Like, Seattle's just played great football. I just don't know if we've acknowledged the great football that they played from start to finish.

[Jason Garrett]

Yeah, Seattle was really, really good. Middle of the year, I went out there and I interviewed Sam Darnold and got a chance to spend the day there, watch practice, be around the meetings and walkthroughs and stuff. And I just love. I just love everything about their team. I think they built it the right way again, created a great environment for their quarterback. JSN is an elite player on offense, but. But for me, you know, what separates them is their defense on all three levels. These guys are really, really good. And I think their head coach and defensive genius, Mike McDonald, is fantastic. And, you know, I have a good story about him. I've gotten to know him a little bit over the last couple of years, and so we're talking about, you know, building. You know, everyone talks about building culture and all of that. I said, you've done an amazing job here. And I said, you know, what have you done? And he was so honest and humble. He said, last year, I had no idea what I was doing. He said. He said, I have no idea. You kind of dive into it, and you just are reeling. But he said after. After the season, got a chance to sit down and really think about what you want to build here. And, you know, Pete Carroll had done a great job building a certain culture there. And.

[Questlove]

And.

[Jason Garrett]

And I asked him, I said, hey, is this just like you. You, you know, trying to replicate what happened in Baltimore, that. That's your experience? And he said, yeah, in some ways, because I was there for so long but he said, I also pulled back and said, you know, this has to be our culture and the environment we create. So keeping some of the good stuff from Pete Carroll. Absolutely. Some of the stuff from the Ravens. Absolutely. Some of the stuff from our players and coaches, from things that they think are important. Absolutely. And then at the end of it, he says, you know, if the coach was all about my personality, we'd be really boring. So we don't. We don't want to be that, you know? And so to me, he's so good at what he does, but he's so humble, and I think what he's created there and what they've created there. John Schneider, great job with the personnel. I love their team.

[Dan Patrick]

Jase, good to talk to you again. Thanks for joining us.

[Jason Garrett]

Yeah. Enjoy the games this weekend.

[Dan Patrick]

That's Jason Garrett, NBC Football Night in America studio analyst. Well, they may have taken on Mike McDonald's personality. They're kind of boring, but they're boringly great. I think any of these other teams would say, we'll take on that personality. We're fine with that. We'll take a break. More of your phone calls, more of your misery. We're back after this.

[Jason Garrett]

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

[Dan Patrick]

Reggie Miller in a half hour from now. Golden State warriors without Jimmy Butler the rest of the season. And you start to wonder, are the warriors kind of morphing into the Lakers the last couple of years with Kobe Bryant where it was? We're not going to be threatening, but come on out and watch Kobe end his career. Steph Curry still playing at a pretty high level at 37. Now they're trying to maybe send Jonathan Kaminga, who I think has been rumored to be traded the last two years, now might be traded. So they can get somebody. But they're gonna, they're not gonna get somebody young. They're gonna have to get somebody older. And they're talking about maybe demar Rosen, which. Okay. I mean, that's, that's, that's okay. They're talking. They'll know. Once again, there's these opportunities. Maybe they could bring back Klay Thompson. That's a possibility. Dallas is interested in Jonathan Kaminga, but for Steph Curry, what do you got, two more years? Maybe. Maybe a third? Because I can't see him going from being the focal point to then just being maybe the way LeBron is with the Lakers. Now maybe it can be that where you're like, you know, I'll be your third option. I'd like to see what the other two options are because I don't know how you're going to find somebody who's still going to be better than Steph Curry. So we'll talk to Reggie about that. For over 40 years, Tire Rack's been helping you find the right tires for how and what and where you drive ship fast and free. Backed by free road hazard protection with convenient installation options like mobile tire installation. Tirek.com the way tire buying should be. Tyler in Utah High. Ty, what's on your mind?

[Caller]

Oh, just first time caller 61240 just bringing back misery was at the 2007 wildcard game, Dallas in Seattle and Romo fumbled the field goal with less than two minutes left. Jason Garrett didn't bring that one up, but that one hurts.

[Dan Patrick]

Well, he wasn't part of the team. I asked him about when he was coaching the Cowboys. He wasn't there when Romo botched the field goal snap and then tried to run it in. You still go back to that DEZ Bryant play. It is fascinating that they didn't think that it was. He was making football a, a football move. He made football moves. I Bizarre, bizarre. And that, you know, you overturn that. So it's called a catch on the field. And then they overturned it. Like there's certain times when you say they're not going to overturn that that one day did. But I still think, you know, the embarrassing one for the NFL was Calvin Johnson when he scores that touchdown. And that opened the door, that opened the door to interpretation. Did you complete the process? I wonder how the NFL would have been affected with today's rules. Catch, not a catch. Complete the process, all of that. What would, how would they have ruled with Franco Harris with the Immaculate Reception? Did it hit the ground? Did it hit another player? Like, I don't know if the call on the field was do you overturn it? Like down through history there have been plays where, you know, now you look back and you go, man, would they have called that a catch? Yes.

[Danettes/Panelist]

Well, you, if, if that happened now, you would know if it was a catch or not. There wouldn't really be any debate. Like, look at the Julian Edelman catch against the Falcons. You were able to see because of video that that was only like half an inch off the ground. So it was a good catch.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah. But we still don't know if the ball didn't hit another Steeler. Like there was the. The ricochet.

[Danettes/Panelist]

Yeah, but if it was modern day, you would probably be able to tell that more based on the number of cameras and the quality of cameras there. There wouldn't be as much of a debate.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah, even now when we look at it, you still can't tell. But that was standard definition. Let's see. Grant in Charlotte. Hi, Grant. What's on your mind today?

[Caller]

What's up, DP? All right. Being a Panthers fan, I got two for you. So 2004 Super Bowl, I was 11. John Casey kicks the ball out of bounds on the kickoff against the Patriots. Given them giving it to him on the 40. Adam Bennetary, easy field goal for the win. That was a heartbreaker. And then cam in 2016, not diving on the ball, not diving on the fumble. That's become mean worthy.

[Dan Patrick]

Thank you, Grant. I don't think it would have mattered against Denver, but you're right, that ball was just kind of there and Cam didn't jump on it. Sam in Colorado. Hey, Sam.

[Caller]

Hey, Dan. And you guys. Second time, long time, long suffering Vikings fan. So this one still stings. Back in 98, we had Randall Cunningham just winding up and chucking it down the field to the likes of Randy Moss and Chris Carter. We had Johnny Randall playing D end, one of the baddest little guys ever to play the position. And then we had the infamous Gary Anderson. Had not missed any field goals all year. We are about to go to the super bowl and Gary Anderson decides to. Yeah, you know what? In the bed.

[Dan Patrick]

So I don't know if he decided to. I think it just happened that way. But I get what you're. You're laying down there. Sam at Vikings team was good. They were really good. No, they'd lose one game that year.

[Paulie]

Yeah, Paulie, that 98 Vikings team, Randall Cunningham, prime Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Jake Reed, the running back, Robert Smith. Breakout season.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Wow.

[Dan Patrick]

Yes.

[Marv]

Marv and the Broncos were like, man, we got a tough game. Probably going to face the Vikings. Oh, we have the Falcons.

[Dan Patrick]

All right. Rich in California. Hi, Richard.

[Caller]

Good morning, Dan and crew. Thanks so much for taking my call. Appreciate it. I grew up about 30 minutes east of Oakland. Big Raider fan in the heyday. Warriors fan, A's fan, winning three state world series. And can't forget the Oakland Seals. But the moment that haunts me is one of the most famous. The Immaculate reception. And obviously there isn't great film on that, but our daughter and husband live in Pittsburgh. And every time I fly into Pittsburgh airport, I have to look at that stupid statue of Frank o' Haris bent over catching the ball. And the problem with the statue is the ball is off the ground. It was not off the ground. That if they did it correctly, that ball would be on the ground with his hands on it.

[Dan Patrick]

All right.

[Jason Garrett]

Yeah. That stupid statue.

[Dan Patrick]

I know this is going to be a haunting day for people as they get into that bad mood and their wife goes, why are you in a bad mood? Dan Patrick asked me to call in and talk about all the painful moments that I've had. Oh, I could see where you're coming into the airport and there's Franco. But Tony Dungy told me a story. I've mentioned it to you before. Just to reiterate. When Tony was with the Steelers as a defensive back and then as a coach, he said that Franco Harris, on every play when they practiced, ran all the way to the end zone. Like if you gave him the football and it was, you know, going through the line of scrimmage and it's practice. He ran. He always ran. He never quit on a play. Well, because of that, Franco doesn't quit on that play. The ball wasn't supposed to go to him. It's a ricochet, and then it goes to Franco and he runs in for the touchdown. It's like Malcolm Butler did what Bill Belichick told him to do in practice. When you see this, go right towards the ball, right towards the receiver. And he came up with perhaps the biggest play in the history of the Super Bowl. Reggie Miller will join us. What's next for Steph Curry and the Golden State Warriors? More of your phone calls as well. More of your misery. 877 3DP Show Fritzy Seaton More of Paulie. Yours truly back after this.

[Caller]

This is an I Heart podcast.

[Dan Patrick]

Guaranteed human.