Hour 2 – NCAA Not Smart With Their Product, Bill Cowher

Summary

The Dan Patrick Show: Hour 2 – NCAA Not Smart With Their Product, Bill Cowher

Release Date: March 18, 2025

In this engaging episode of The Dan Patrick Show, host Dan Patrick delves deep into the current state of the NCAA and its impact on college sports, particularly focusing on March Madness and the broader implications of recent changes within collegiate athletics. Joined by Hall of Fame coach Bill Cowher, the discussion navigates through the complexities of the NCAA’s decision-making, the transfer portal, Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) regulations, and the ripple effects these have on both athletes and the institutions themselves.

Critique of NCAA’s Strategic Decisions

Dan Patrick opens the conversation by addressing the controversial inclusion of North Carolina in the NCAA tournament, questioning the selection criteria and the potential biases within the selection committee.

Dan Patrick [13:00]: “North Carolina shouldn't have been in. They got in. And a lot of conspiracy controversy.”

Bill Cowher echoes these sentiments, expressing skepticism about the transparency of the NCAA's processes.

Bill Cowher [13:14]: “You have a bunch of people in a room who are financially incentivized for their team to make it. And I think what comes out of all of this is not an injunction to stop tonight's game. That's silly.”

He further criticizes the NCAA’s handling of pivotal issues:

Bill Cowher [13:25]: “The NCAA has been corrupt for a long, long, long time. There's a lot of things that go on. We don't know why they did, when they did, how long they did, even NIL.”

Impact of the Transfer Portal and NIL Regulations

The introduction of the transfer portal and NIL rights has significantly altered the landscape of college sports. Cowher discusses how these changes have empowered athletes but also led to unintended consequences, such as teams stockpiling older players or focusing funding disproportionately on high-profile positions.

Bill Cowher [18:00]: “But there's so much money here, and they don't understand any of this. NIL. They fought it for years. Transfer portal. Well, you can't let players do it. Why? You let coaches do this.”

He highlights the strategic shortcomings of the NCAA in adapting to these changes:

Bill Cowher [19:30]: “They have not been smart. They have not been ahead of anything. They've always been, oh, my God, now what do we do?”

Case Study: Rutgers’ Undrafted Players

A significant point of discussion is Rutgers University’s failure to advance in the NCAA tournament despite having top-tier talents who are poised for success in professional leagues.

Bill Cowher [10:00]: “Two of the top five guys and they didn't make the NCAA tournament. All right, some phone calls here.”

Cowher attributes this to the NCAA’s flawed system, where even teams with exceptional players can falter due to systemic issues rather than on-field performance alone.

NFL Quarterback Dynamics and Team Strategies

Shifting focus to the professional realm, Cowher provides insightful analysis on the ongoing quarterback conundrum faced by the Pittsburgh Steelers, particularly regarding Aaron Rodgers' potential move and its implications.

Dan Patrick [25:05]: “But also with Aaron at this age, how much, how much should you factor age into this? The way he plays the position?”

Bill Cowher [26:34]: “I think those are conversations that you got to be convinced that that's where his heart is at.”

Cowher emphasizes the importance of strategic flexibility and the necessity for teams to build around their quarterbacks effectively, rather than being overly reliant on marquee names.

Bill Cowher [32:37]: “The quarterback position is there. Accuracy, the ability to have anticipation and throw with anticipation...”

Lessons from Coaching: Adaptability and Decision-Making

Drawing from his illustrious coaching career, Cowher underscores the critical role of adaptability and in-game decision-making. He reflects on past experiences where coaching decisions had significant impacts on game outcomes, both positive and negative.

Bill Cowher [38:29]: “Yeah, I mean, when you're not prepared and you don't have the ability to have flexibility to make, you know, alterations in terms of what you do in the course of a game...”

He shares a poignant memory from the 1994 AFC Championship game, highlighting how pivotal plays can haunt a coach but also serve as learning experiences.

Bill Cowher [41:03]: “We called the play and a Neil Donald pass that was batted down by Dennis Gibson that was intended for Barry Foster...”

Future of NCAA and Collegiate Sports

As the conversation wraps up, both Dan Patrick and Bill Cowher ponder the future trajectory of the NCAA amidst ongoing challenges. Cowher remains cautiously optimistic but insists on the necessity for significant reforms to restore integrity and competitiveness.

Bill Cowher [21:46]: “The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.”

Conclusion

This episode provides a thorough examination of the NCAA’s current state, enriched by Bill Cowher’s expert insights from his extensive coaching background. Listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the intricate dynamics at play within college sports and the broader implications for professional leagues like the NFL. Cowher’s candid reflections and strategic perspectives offer valuable lessons for sports enthusiasts, athletes, and administrators alike.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Cowher [13:25]: “The NCAA has been corrupt for a long, long, long time.”

• Bill Cowher [26:34]: “...you got to be convinced that that's where his heart is at.”

• Bill Cowher [38:29]: “...alterations in terms of what you do in the course of a game...”

• Bill Cowher [41:03]: “We called the play and a Neil Donald pass that was batted down by Dennis Gibson that was intended for Barry Foster...”

This episode is a must-listen for those interested in the evolving landscape of college and professional sports, offering a blend of critical analysis and seasoned expertise.

Transcript

[Dan Patrick]

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[Bill Cower]

On this episode of Dope Labs, poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo breaks down.

[Dan Patrick]

The psychology of love and provides eye.

[Bill Cower]

Opening insights and advice we all need. It's a big realization moment that you.

[Dan Patrick]

Should not be postponing your happiness.

[Bill Cower]

Like your greatest happiness is not necessarily.

[Dan Patrick]

Going to like come from a relationship. Your partner. They should add to your happiness, but your happiness is really coming from within you. Listen to Dope labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd.

[Bill Cower]

Develop your EQ A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me?

[Dan Patrick]

Do I communicate well?

[Bill Cower]

Develop the team, develop the people, create.

[Dan Patrick]

A system of trust.

[Bill Cower]

And it works over time.

[Dan Patrick]

I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief, on my podcast this Is Working Leaders Share Strategies for Success. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know that 70% of people get hired at companies where they already have a connection? I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development and on my podcast, Get H, I bring you all the information you need to, well, Get Hired. Landing a job may be tough, but Get Hired is here for you every step of the way with advice on resumes, networking, negotiation and so much more. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you like to listen. Are you hungry?

[Bill Cower]

Colleen Witt here and Eating While Broke is back for Season four every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. This season we've got a legendary lineup.

[Dan Patrick]

Serving up broke dishes and even better.

[Bill Cower]

Stories on the menu we have Tony.

[Dan Patrick]

Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa Ford, October London.

[Bill Cower]

And Carrie Harper Howe turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch eating while broke every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network iHeartradio app, Apple Podcast.

[Dan Patrick]

Wherever you get your favorite shows, come.

[Bill Cower]

Hungry for season four.

[Dan Patrick]

You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio. North Carolina shouldn't have been in. They got in. And a lot of conspiracy controversy. With North Carolina in, they face San Diego State coming up tonight, North Carolina favored by four and a half. A must win situation, by the way, according to DraftKings odds to win March Madness, you basically have four teams, four schools. It's Duke, Florida, Auburn, Houston. Then after that it's a big, big jump to Alabama. It's a four team race. Now there will probably be another double digit seed that makes it to the Elite Eight, maybe to the Final Four. These things happen because of the transfer portal. You're getting schools that have a good team or they can get a player coming in and all it takes is one or two players. Unless you're Rutgers and you can have a great season. The fact that Rutgers is going to have two of the first five players drafted this year and didn't make the tournament is remarkable. But you're finding out that you have a lot of these teams that have stockpiled older players, juniors, seniors, and those teams are always dangerous come tournament time. Yes. Eaton, do you consider that what you just said about Rutgers when you're drafting a player? I would. I did that with Ben Simmons. Now, I thought Ben Simmons was shooting with the wrong hand. When I first watched him, I went, I think he's right handed. Still possible. Yes, it is. Yes. I saw where Ben Simmons wants to play for Australia in the Olympics. I think Kyrie Irving would like to play for Australia in the Olympics. Also saw where Ben Simmons is. Is he selling his house in Brooklyn? How many houses does he have? Because he should open up an NBA Airbnb and just, hey, if you go to that team, you can have my house here. If you're in Philadelphia, if you're in Brooklyn, if you're in la, I got a house for you. Yes, Paul? Yeah. Ben Simmons condo in the area called Dumbo in Brooklyn. $17 million. 16, 999. Dan, it looks fantastic. It's six bedrooms. Oh, it looks fantastic. For almost 17 million. Well, that's nice. It's not quite as big as you'd think for 17 million, but it's very nice. Okay, but Ben Simmons couldn't get LSU to the tournament. Markel Foltz, that was another one. We talked about that, where they won, what, nine games. If you have the number one pick in the draft, you win nine games. I got, I got to put a question mark by that. And it turned out to be true. You know, I mean, there's some things that happened to Markel Fultz. He forgot how to shoot and, you know, did revitalize his career a little bit there. That was where, you know, I came in. I don't know the timeframe of it, but I talked to a source and he thought this is when Philadelphia and Boston were making the trade. And he says, philly will take the wrong guy. He goes, the best player in the draft is Jason Tatum. And he said, philadelphia is going to screw this up. And it, I remember coming in and saying, the best guy in the draft is Jason Tatum. And. But, you know, you're getting an undersized guard for a team that won what, eight or nine games in college, and then you're going to take him. Yes, Marvin. But I think the big difference is on lsu, besides Ben Simmons, you couldn't name another NBA player. Markel Fultz, the same thing. You have two, not like first round picks, two top five, maybe top 10 picks. The Rutgers coach is probably on the hot seat. Well, Rutgers doesn't normally get these players so nil. Somebody spent a lot of money on these two players. Ron Harper's son. And who's at Ace Bailey? That Bailey, you know, I watched him play and he'll give you a highlight. I don't know if he gives you a full game, but, man, does he give you highlights. And then Dylan Harper, Ron Harper's son, he. He would be dropping dime. I mean, he. You would watch and you go, damn, these guys are really good. Were their teammates that bad that you couldn't make up for, you know, the other three in the starting lineup? Yes. It could be a situation too, where I'm speculating. I have no idea. I haven't really paid attention. But. So who's the guy? Can't both be the star. Ace Bailey's the star. Ace Bailey is for sure. However, Dylan Harper probably kind of like, I don't know, man. I'm pretty kind of much the guy my whole life too. So which one of us is it? Two of the top five guys and they didn't make the NCAA tournament. All right, some phone calls here. 877, 3DP show. Good morning. If you're watching on Peacock. Thank you Bill Cower, hall of Fame coach, will join us. Coming up, get his thoughts on what his Steelers are doing at the quarterbacking position. We have no word, no update on Aaron Rodgers situation, which also affects Rush. Russell Wilson's situation, whether it's the Giants, the Steelers probably not having him back. But if Aaron Rodgers doesn't go to Minnesota, does he go to Pittsburgh? Does he go to the Giants? Russell Wilson is probably just sitting at home going. Any news on Aaron Rodgers? Nope, nothing. Poll question for hour two is going to be what Seaton. Let me see. Let me update you on the first couple that we got there right now, Shador Sanders still holding on to a lead. Who gets drafted first, Shador or Jackson Dart? That's still at about 65%. Sure. Now, the reason why we brought this up is Mel Kuiper, draft expert, just had his latest mock draft and he has Jackson Dart going 10th overall to the New Orleans Saints. That's where the, the wave of compliments, I guess with Jackson Dart. It is Jackson Dart Day. It just became Jackson Dart Day. Yes. What else do you have seen? And then we also have best ever quarterback name, obviously. Jackson Dart, Joe Montana, Johnny Utah, Colt McCoy right now, Johnny Utah running away with this one. Now second place, it's, it's a tie. But this person has a slight edge by about 0.3%. That would be Colt McCoy, barely ahead of Joe Montana. Reggie in Mississippi. Hi, Reggie. What's on your mind today? Quarterback names. One that sticks to me.

[Bill Cower]

I used to like Billy Joe Toliver, Ms. a lot of Billy Joes around.

[Dan Patrick]

Here, but my absolute favorite is former.

[Bill Cower]

Oklahoma quarterback General Booty.

[Dan Patrick]

You know what, when you brought up Billy Joe Toliver, the first name I thought of was General Booty. Just because I, I mean, how does that go over where you say to your wife and I got, if it's a boy, I got a name. What is it? Because I think, isn't there a Josh Booty like you get to General Booty? I mean, that's a big jump. There's certain times when you're in the delivery room and you're talking about names and then all of a sudden you just say what about? And then, you know, your wife goes, okay, let's get out of here. Like, we named my daughter because we thought that she was going to be a boy. My wife swore that she was going to be a boy. We didn't have a girl's name. You got to give her a name to get out of the, the hospital gave her a name six Months later she goes, that's she, that's not who she, she's not an Emily. I said, okay, what's that mean? Well, you got to go down to the courthouse. We're going to change her name to Georgia. Okay. And then that was it. But given what she went through, whatever she said went, let's just get out of the hospital here. Yes, Paul. General Booty is the nephew of former NFL quarterback John David Booty. Oh, John David, yes. And also former NFL quarterback Josh Booty. His given name is General Axel Booty. Wow. I love military designations. Major Applewhite, that was good. Like you say. You know what we're going to go with Major. We're not prepared to go with general quite yet. Not corporal? Yes. No, not Staff Sergeant. Staff Sergeant Applewhite reporting for duty, sir. All right, so Bill Cower will join us. Coming up, I'm wondering about Travis Hunter. Now, we know he can play two positions. Is he going to be able to, does he get two salaries? If he plays two positions, how many plays do you then say we got to pay him more because he's going to be a full time cornerback, part time wide receiver or vice versa. Jamar Chase is getting paid over $40 million. So if you look at the wide receiver position, 40 million. Derek Stingley Jr. The Texans just got $30 million a year. Even the franchise tag, 24 million for a wide receiver, 21 for a cornerback. And I'm wondering if you're Travis Hunter, do you say, I think I want to be a wide receiver because that's where there's more money. Stat of the Day brought to you by Panini America. The official trading cards of the program in our bracket challenge. It's live right now on foxsportsradio.com you can play along with not only us but also the celebrities, fans of the show, friends of the [e-mail] Cody in Texas. Hi, Cody. What's on your mind? Hey, good morning, Dan.

[Bill Cower]

Wanted to just comment.

[Dan Patrick]

You know, you had mentioned and I think you and even the governor of West Virginia are on the same page. You know, you had said the, you know, they should televise the selection committee unless they have something to hide. Yeah. And I think what the governor is trying to say is there is something to hide.

[Bill Cower]

You have a bunch of people in a room who are financially incentivized for.

[Dan Patrick]

Their team to make it.

[Bill Cower]

And, and I think what comes out.

[Dan Patrick]

Of all of this is not an.

[Bill Cower]

Injunction to stop tonight's game.

[Dan Patrick]

That's Silly. But I think, you know, you might see that these processes started to be.

[Bill Cower]

Televised because of something the governor's doing.

[Dan Patrick]

I don't think they'll allow it. I don't think the NCAA wants to be told what to do. Although the NCAA should be told what to do, needs direction. But all they are, is they're a traffic cop in a small town. They're not really stopping anybody. It's like Barney Fife and Andy Griffith, you know, they're not, they're kind of harmless. But you are dealing with a lot of money here and you're making big decisions here. Can you at least let us understand the process here? What goes on? What goes on with the, you know, the college football rankings? I gotta be curious. And if you're not going to allow us to have this, if you're not going to, you know, seek transparency, why, like, if you have nothing to hide now, you may say, well, you know, people don't want to attach their name to certain opinions they might have. Okay, I just want the right people making the right decisions. The NCAA has been corrupt for a long, long, long time. There's a lot of things that go on. We don't know why they did, when they did, how long they did, even nil. Now, like, now they're saying, if you're recruiting a kid nil out of high school now, you can offer enticements. Now you weren't allowed to do that. And I'm doing this for the radio audience in quotation marks with, you know, you weren't allowed to entice a recruit when they were leaving high school. Yeah, of course that never happened. Well, this is what happened. There's no paperwork. Now, we've had some situations where kids get to college, they didn't sign anything because you weren't allowed to sign something. Then they get there and then the school goes, you didn't sign anything. There's no document, there's no paper trail because you couldn't. Well, now you can. It's just the NCAA gave us the student athlete back in the 70s. Walter Byers, student athlete. And I thought, well, you know, it's a, it's a great name label. You're a student athlete. They're not. It's a full time job. It truly is. And the pressures now, you have players getting death threats, you have prop bets, people are betting on you. Like, there's a lot going on right now in college, college athletics. And I don't know if there's anybody who can kind of come in and clean it up. You know, you. You just. And that's what is really scary. If you have something that makes billions of dollars and there's no speed limit here, what do you think is going to happen? It could be a lot of accidents, casualties. And that's the unfortunate part of this, is there's a lot of. March Madness is wonderful. The College Football Playoff, it'll expand. These idiots finally realized how much money when I kept saying, you're at four. Why don't you double it? And then you double your money. And then all of a sudden they go, you know what? We're going to double it. And now we're going to go to 12. Now we're going to go to 14. Then we'll go to 16. Now we have 68 teams. Now we want to go to 76. Okay, you're going to make money, but I want to make sure that you're smart with your product. And that's the disappointing part. The NCAA has not been smart. They have. They have not been ahead of anything. They've always been, oh, my God, now what do we do? Like, Nil and the transfer portal, they're like, once again, former coach told me, schools aren't going to pay for guys who aren't quarterbacks or wide receivers. I said, oh, they will. I said, they'll buy an entire offensive line coach. And he said, no way. He goes, what are we going to give him, pizza? And I go, okay. And once again, I do rub it in with him occasionally when I hear that somebody got paid. Certain, you know, but that's because we didn't really. It was a myopic view. We're going to pay for the star. That's the way they used to do it. You paid for a star player. Basketball, you paid for a star player. You didn't pay everybody. You paid for a star player. That's not the case. College football. You're paying offensive and defense. Look at Georgia. Look no further than Georgia. Look how they won. And you're able to do it legally. Brought in defensive line, offensive line. I mean, that's. That's what's going on. But there's so much money here, and they don't understand any of this. Nil. They fought it for years. Transfer portal. Well, you can't let players do it. Why? You let coaches do this. Why don't you have a coach sit out a year when he transfers to another school? Yes. Didn't somebody try to, like, argue with you about them not being able to pay? They didn't want to pay like offensive and defensive linemen? Yeah. That's crazy to me because to me, it's easier to find fast little guys than fast big guys. He said, what are we going to pay him? Pizza? And I, I just said, I said, coach, you got it wrong. But he didn't want to pay. So they, you know, in their mind, they don't want to pay. We shouldn't be paying. They should want to play for our school. That's just not the case anymore. And with March Madness, can we get transparency? Is that asking a lot? I don't think they would ever allow it. All right, let me take a break. I'll get down off my soapbox here. Bill Cower will join us coming up next year. Dan Patrick show. Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our [e-mail] and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live. Hey, Steve Covino. And I'm Rich Davis. And together we're Covino and Rich on Fox Sports Radio. You can catch us weekdays from 5 to 7p Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. And of course, the iHeartRadio app. Why should you listen to Covino and Rich? We talk about everything. Life, sports, relationships, what's going on in the world. We have a lot of fun talking about the stories behind the stories in the world of sports and pop culture, stories that, well, other shows don't seem to have the time to discuss. And the fact that we've been friends for the last 20 years and still work together, I mean, that says something, right? So check us out. We like to get you involved, too. Take your phone calls, chop it up, as they say. I'd say the most interactive show on Fox Sports Radio, maybe the most interactive show on planet Earth. Be sure to check out Covino and Rich live on Fox Sports radio and the iHeartradio app from 5 to 7pm Eastern, 2 to 4 Pacific. And if you miss any of the live show, just search Covino and Rich wherever you get your podcast. And of course, on social media, that's Covino and Rich. Love at first swipe? I highly doubt it. What's your biggest red flag?

[Bill Cower]

No, no, no. What's your ultimate green?

[Dan Patrick]

These days, reality TV and social media have us thinking love is instant. We're marrying strangers at first sight. We're finding love through walls. Or we're even judging people by balloon pops. But what really makes a relationship last? On this episode of Dope Labs, poet, author and relationship expert Young Pueblo breaks down the psychology and biology of loving.

[Bill Cower]

Better and he provides eye opening insights.

[Dan Patrick]

And advice that we all need.

[Bill Cower]

It's a big realization moment that you.

[Dan Patrick]

Should not be postponing your happiness. Like your greatest happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a relationship, your partner. They should add to your happiness, but your happiness is really coming from within you. Listen to Dope labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast Math and Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries to hear how they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like Chairman and CEO of Health Beauty Tarang Amin.

[Bill Cower]

The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.

[Dan Patrick]

I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel. I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life. We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times like Stephane Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math, and the ever important creative spark, the magic. Listen to math and stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's advice from Google CMO Lorraine Tuk on how to treat AI like a partner. I see AI as an incredible co pilot. You may use different tools or toys to get the work done, but ultimately as editor, as creator, as maker, you own it and it needs to be good. AI is just the latest flavor of that. You're still the judge of what good looks like. I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast, this Is Working leaders like Indra Nooyi, Ray Dalio, and Rich Paul share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Harry Houdini. Harry Houdini could make elephants disappear, walk through walls, and escape the Chinese water torture cell. But he was also on a mission against mediums.

[Bill Cower]

I have never seen one genuine medium.

[Dan Patrick]

Join me, Tim Harford, for a Cautionary Tales trilogy on the world's most famous magician.

[Bill Cower]

It takes a flim flammer to catch a flim flammer.

[Dan Patrick]

Houdini wanted the world to see reason in an age of spiritualism. He went undercover to seances, exposed fakes and charlatans, and even tried to convince Washington lawmakers to ban mediums for good, a campaign that cost him friends and.

[Bill Cower]

Made him many enemies. They're going to kill me.

[Dan Patrick]

Listen to Cautionary tales on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It was a month ago when Bill Cower was on the program and he said that he expected the Steelers to have dialogue with Aaron Rodgers. Well, they probably had dialogue and we're still waiting for Aaron Rodgers. Coach joins us on the program. What do you think the Steelers are going to do and what do you think the Steelers should do at quarterback?

[Bill Cower]

All right. Well, number one, I've done a very good job of keeping their playing their cards in house and not sharing a lot of the conversations that they've had. I'm sure when you think about it, Dan. So, you know, I think right now there's really not a deadline, so I'm sure they're sitting back weighing what their options are. I don't know exactly how much money has played into this. You know, I think they wanted Justin Fields is my speculation. Again, this is all speculation. I've talked to nobody within the building, but I think they wanted to go with a younger player to see if he could develop. I personally think that Russell Wilson is your best choice. It's the better it's going to be a better offensive line room with Fontenot coming back and moving Broderick to left tackle. I think you're looking at the best receiving core you're going to have in a long time in terms of taking keep George Pickens or not. That'll be the next conversation that you will have to have. Roman Will Wilson was a guy they were very counting on last year. Calvin Austin stepped up So I think the offense in whole and I think, you know, with Arthur Smith in the second year in theory should, should take a step forward. So I think they're sitting back and again, I think this is not unlike a Pittsburgh way of doing things, of seeing what their options are, not feeling pressed to make a decision based on the fact there's no deadline.

[Dan Patrick]

But also with Aaron at this age, how much, how much should you factor age into this? The way he plays the position?

[Bill Cower]

Well, I think the same is you factor Russell into it. I think that these are two players that who gives you the best chance to win this year, maybe next year and then in the meantime bridge yourself to the next quarterback, whoever that may be. You know, I think back then to when we had Neil O'Donnell who was a third round pick and we ended up having Cordell Stewart who was a second round pick. You know, both those players, you know, as you sat down, you built team realize that, you know, that was a position that, you know, you had to have consistent play from. And I think that's what they need to get. Is it going to be a guy that's a franchise quarterback? Not everybody has one, but I think the biggest thing you have to do is build around it and not just sit there and wait on one position to say that that's going to be the fate of your football team. You think about the last five losses. This wasn't just on Russell Wilson, this was, you know, you played two of the teams were in the super bowl and then you lost three games to division teams, two to Baltimore and one to Cincinnati. And those are very much playoff caliber teams. And I think we look at all five of them. You played against five really good quarterbacks and the defense did not play up to snuff, to be quite honest with you. And certainly the offense didn't contribute, didn't have your best players at this time. George Pickens was probably hurt near the end of the season. So you really a little handcuffed from that position standpoint. But again I think you go back and as you sit back and reflect, I think they had chance to work with Justin, had a chance to work with Russell. You know who they are and they know the system as well. You lost Justin. Russell's still out there. You have a chance to get Aaron Rodgers and can he still throw it? Yes. Is he mobile enough? I think so. But does he really want to play? I mean the longer you wait you just have to wonder where is his heart and how much does he really want to do And I said, you know, I just think when somebody starts talking about retirement, they've already checked the box. So they've checked out to some degree. And, you know, so how much is he motivated to want to come here and be a part of trying to win a championship and then consequently, you know, consequently bridging a bridge to the next guy? And maybe that next guy's Mason Rudolph, and he's sitting there, right there underneath your nose. He played there before. Could he be a later Geno Smith? Could this be Sam Darnold, who all sudden, they blossomed later in their career? So I think there's a lot that has to play out. I think signing Mason Rudolph made a lot of sense.

[Dan Patrick]

If you were still coaching, would you reach out to Aaron Rodgers?

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, I think I would have reached out to him from the very beginning. I'm sure that they did.

[Dan Patrick]

Again, Mike Tomlin reached out to him. And just to gauge his interest 100%.

[Bill Cower]

I don't think there's any question about that. And I think, again, from Aaron's standpoint, he's a guy that thinks through a lot of these things. This is where he's in his career. I do not think that if he decided to go wherever he goes, he'll be all in. That's just the way he is. I do think that there's a degree, and I said this to you last time I was on the show. I don't think he liked the way he exited. And you look how he played last year. He played all 17 games, determined to do so. But, you know, the five wins, that's just not who he wants to go out as being a quarterback on that kind of team. So I think he's motivated to play, and I think at the same time, where does he want to play? But, you know, those are conversations that you got to be convinced that that's where his heart is at. And I think that's the thing that you'd have to have is constant communication with him from that standpoint. And where's Russell in this whole thing? So, I mean, you know, that's the thing. Again, I go back to the same thing. You've worked with them for a year. A lot of good things were done. They weren't healthy. At the end of the season, this is a much better receiving room core. DK Metcalf, you have a history with him. Again, the biggest question to me on that offensive side is, what are you going to do with George Pickens? Is he going to be motivated to play in the last year of his contract, Are you going to extend him or is there going to be any degree of getting something for him from the standpoint of trade? So these are conversations that I think are having, but also there's no deadline to some of these conversations. The biggest deadline you're going to have right now is going to be the draft.

[Dan Patrick]

Talking to Bill Cower, hall of Famer, and now with the NFL today on cbs. When it comes to quarterbacks, I always think, you know, if I get together with you, I see your medicals and I do an interview with you, but I, I got to look at game tape. Like, game tape has to factor in, you know, a really high percentage. I think we get caught up in the combine and we get caught up in pro days, and then all of a sudden, I don't know, did you fall in love with somebody at a pro day or the combine in going against maybe kind of that intuitiveness of that guy's my kind of football player.

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, I think you, those are metrics that you're looking at that, you know, whether his speed, there's size, there's athleticism, the quarterback position is there. Accuracy, the ability to have anticipation and throw with anticipation, the ability. How much did you do in college and how much do you really. How much did you run the offense? How much leeway did you have? Can you set protections? Can you make audibles? These are things that, to me, when you start to work with a guy, you find out what his strengths are and what his, maybe his liabilities may be and what, you know, certain things that you just don't want to do. If the guy asked me to do something, he can't do. So I think it takes working with someone sometimes. And again, you know, how much does the comfort level of that quarterback. I go back, I think the one thing I've been very much impressed with is a guy like Kevin O'Connell, I think he can take a quarterback, he can sit in a room with them and realize exactly how much he can get out of this player. Where is this player comfortable? And that same. That may be scaling something back, but it also may be an opportunity to open something up where they feel like, let me see it, let me spread this out and see it. And I can, I can process things there. So how quarterback processes information, how you deliver the information, the leeway you give him, what's his strengths, athleticism wise, what his strength reads wise, what's his better throws, is he more accurate on certain areas in certain throws, These are things that you, you have to work with someone on a regular basis and you get a better feel for what they can and more importantly, what they can't do.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay, but how much, I don't know if you were skeptical with Ben Roethlisberger, like, what, what was the big concern you had with Roethlisberger when you drafted him?

[Bill Cower]

Probably just the level of play. I mean, I watched him play. You play many big games, you know, you're playing in the Mac. I get it. And there's, you know, it's not bad competition, but, you know, it's, it's not the NFL, you know. But when he did play in those big games, he did play well. And so when we got him, I just, I just didn't think it was fair to a young quarterback to throw them in there right away. Dan, because the game is faster, you're processing things more, it's more complex. It's a new system. I just think you want to make sure that quarterback is comfortable and that your football team is comfortable with that quarterback, you know, so I don't want to set our team back by putting someone in there who wasn't ready to go in there. And at the same time do I start his growth and development as a quarterback. So I do think there's a lot to be said for not even starting up now. He came in in the third game of the season of his rookie year and started playing, but he didn't have that pressure in the preseason. He had that pressure in training camp. He was doing a lot of like one minute and two minute, you know, no huddle, quarterback, I mean, practices. And he was, he was running in no huddle and doing the one minutes. And he played in the preseason then limited time in the third or fourth quarter, maybe in a backup role. So the pressure of not being the week one starter was not on him. And so when he came in, you know, we kind of tried to ease him into, in terms of we had a football team around him. And that's why I say before, I said build it around him. We had a good offensive line, we had a running game. We had a pretty solid group of receivers. So it was just coming in and making sure that you ran and did your part in that offense. I didn't ask you to win games. When I ask you not to lose games, that doesn't mean you're being risk adverse. So this means you're not taking chances and doing the things that allow him to do. And he did come in and he, you know, he felt more comfortable out of the Pocket and running around. And I used to call it playing street ball where he, he didn't. He made the game look very simple. It wasn't how we designed it. It's frustrating at times as a coach, but at the same time we were winning games and he was doing things that he felt comfortable. So you try to reel him in, but not too much because you kind of let him do his thing because he was having success, but you knew it wasn't sustainable. So what you really try to do is just get him to, to grow, to develop while he was very comfortable within this system that he thought was very simple. So you try to keep it simple and let it become more complex as he becomes more comfortable.

[Dan Patrick]

I think you gave us a story that Ben would act like he couldn't hear you.

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, that's when he got real. He got way, he got too comfortable. So it sounds like, let me just do this. I think my headphones are out. No, they're not. I could. So you may skip that helmet. I said, the helmet's fine. I go, oh, Ben, the helmet's fine. He goes, well, it just came back on. I go, yeah, it came back on. It's called selective hearing. Selective hearing. So, yeah, we have it with our kids. He was like, I have one of my kids. I have selective hearing.

[Dan Patrick]

Can you relate it all to Bill Belichick?

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, I mean, well, as a football coach, for sure. I mean, I think that like, did.

[Dan Patrick]

You ever think like, I mean that's, that's a big change. Could you ever seen yourself. I don't think you coached in college as a head coach, but doing something like that. If NC State says, would you like to coach us? Could you see that? Even right now? I mean, you're younger than Belichick.

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, no, I mean, I. The coaching landscape right now in college sports is just, I don't know. I always looked at college sports as being a purity of it's amateur element to it. You work your way to the professional element. It's a period of time, you know, only 1% of college players are going to play professional football and everyone else is going to move on to their next stage in life. And so I thought it was the best four years of my life I played in college. And you're tremendously impacted by your coaches. And I love that part of it. I remember going down, when I stepped down, being able to talk to the NC State football team on spring practices and just recognizing kind of impact you have as a coach for those people. I remember, you know, My coach I had Lou Holtz my first year, Bo Ryan in my next three years. Some of the players I played with I still in contact with today. And so, you know, it's, you know, high school football, college football, I mean that was, that was pure and it was, it was a part of growing up. And you know, at that point then you have to be ready to move on to the next phase of life. And I was fortunate enough to be able to stay in the professional football, make it for, for five years and get into coaching. And. But I. Coaching is still. It's in your blood. That's the only thing I'll say about Bill I do doesn't surprise me because I do think he does love coaching the game of football. I think he's. His core values of how he believes a game should be played and the respect that he has for the game is something that will be a great benefit to the players that he ends up coaching. So I think that from that standpoint as a football coach, he's tremendously insightful. I think he's very good at what he does and he'll have great impact on those people. So I think that from that standpoint, it doesn't surprise me. It'll be interesting to see how it goes with them and the whole college football scene. Dan, right now with the NIL and they're hiring GMs now they're talking about positions of GMs in college football. It's almost like the wild, wild west. I just, it just doesn't seem like there's any guardrails sometimes in terms of what they can and can't do.

[Dan Patrick]

How many times do you think you were out coached in your career?

[Bill Cower]

I think does it happen?

[Dan Patrick]

I mean, I, I mean we spent a lot of time talking about coaches and Belichick being maybe the greatest coach of all time. But can you get out coached?

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, I mean, I think when you're not prepared and you don't have the ability to have flexibility to make, you know, alterations in terms of what you do in the course of a game, you got, you know, you talk about in house game adjustments. That's real. What's real is the fact is you can prepare all week for some. Something.

[Dan Patrick]

Yeah.

[Bill Cower]

And if I can show you something you have prepared for, it's going to be your ability to be able to be a good teacher on the mend and to be able to do some things on the sideline, to make some adjustments in game adjustments. And so that to me is where at times you know, you may feel like you're, you're a play caller or you're a defensive signal caller. Sometimes you feel like you're just, you're just one play behind. There's, they're a step ahead. They, you call something and they can beat you with it or something. You are ahead of them, you're dictating the pace of play. So I think coaching is so impactful in a game and every game that you win or lose, you can go back to three or four plays that maybe you wish you had back and three or four plays that you say, wow, you know, it was a great call at the right time or at times it's just the way the ball bounced. And so there are times when, you know, it's just, you know, you can take one or two plays and it's a 50, 50 ball that you didn't come down with. Is that being out coached? I wouldn't say that is, but I think to a degree, I think every football game that you win and lose, there's a tremendous impact that coaching can have in game in terms of what you do and also then moving forward. And I do think that sometimes some of the greatest lessons you learn is you watch your football team, you think one thing going in, then you come out of it is that ability to be able to stay a step ahead all of a sudden, all of a sudden not be a team that can be, oh, we know exactly what you're going to do every week. I'm always going to have the better players than you. So I got schematically be able to do something that can give my football team a competitive edge in how I coach, coach them and my decision making and my ability to, to adapt and adjust and do some things differently because it's just not working. I keep beating my head against the wall, think, okay, we're just going to keep doing it because that's who we are. Well, no, who we are should be someone that you're not sure who we are. If I can make sure you're not sure who we are because we show a lot of different things. That to me is what great coaching is about, is to be able to stay a step ahead, to be creative in your thinking, open minded in your thinking, and keep your players kind of excited about what's coming up next because even they know that there's going to be something a little bit twinkie. We're going to tweak something about how we approach every game each week, making it all personal.

[Dan Patrick]

Is there a decision that you made that still haunts you.

[Bill Cower]

You know, I mean, you get fourth and three in the AFC Championship game and you're at the three yard line and it's like, that's your game. If you go score a touchdown, you, you, you go to the Super Bowl. If you don't, you go home. Well, we called the play and a Neil Donald pass that was batted down by Dennis Gibson that was intended for Barry Foster. So I guess I just gave you that play, which I. So, yeah, so it was incomplete. Would I want that play back? Yeah, maybe I would want that play.

[Dan Patrick]

Sorry about that, coach. Sorry.

[Bill Cower]

Yeah, no, that's okay. That's okay. You had to bring it up. I just told you there was a Neil Donald bad now by Dennis Gibson and it was intended for Barry Foster. I thought it was a great play. I actually called the play. And it was the 1994 AFC championship game against the San Diego Chargers. So, yeah, that was, ironically enough, the following year in the same end zone, AFC Championship game. Last play of the game was a Hail Mary from Jim Harbaugh into the end zone, and this one was batted down. So this was another incomplete pass in the end zone. But this time it was a good thing. So it was. I remember those two plays very vividly. And also the. Remember the play that we. The Ben Roethlisberger block and Antoine Randol to Hines Ward play, we practiced that for so long, and it was in the fourth quarter and it was kind of sealed the game. So you do remember particular plays that were very impactful in big games and not always wins.

[Dan Patrick]

Are you glad you called in today?

[Bill Cower]

Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay.

[Bill Cower]

I'm glad you even asked me to come in. Yeah.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay.

[Bill Cower]

I am.

[Dan Patrick]

Okay.

[Bill Cower]

I know.

[Dan Patrick]

I just.

[Bill Cower]

I am. I like this conversation. This is great.

[Dan Patrick]

I didn't want to ruin your day where you're, you know, you're going to lunch and your wife's going, what's wrong? Oh, the Barry Foster throw. And I know.

[Bill Cower]

You start. Listen, I love the fact this time of year there is free agency going on. They're getting ready for the draft, you know, and free agency really does impact the draft. Say what you want, but like a lot of things that happen between now and then, you know, I go back to up until the very day of the draft, we traded for Jerome Bettis against with the Rams. And consequently, we didn't. We didn't. We were going to take Eddie George if we didn't get Barry. If we didn't get Jerome Bettis. So there's this time of year it's funny because everybody's decisions and then you have like the musical chairs with the quarterbacks. He's got Russell Aaron. You still have the Giants probably looking for one, but are they going to draft one? You know, is Kevin okay going into it with JJ McCarthy and no other veteran. So you're kind of waiting to see what happens and how that unfolds. And so it's I, you wake up and you kind of check the news and see what any news is of the day. And we're still, still waiting on Aaron and no one's sure. Is he still on the beach walking up and down this morning to see what he wants to do? I don't know. But, you know, but it's, it is like I said before, there's no timetable right now. I know we all got to get anxious about what's going on, what are we going to do here, there. But you know, at the same time, I think you're getting ready for some of these pro days, you're getting ready for the draft and, and I think right now you're getting a feel for what you want to do and, and more importantly, where, where players mindsets are.

[Dan Patrick]

Great to talk to you coach, as always. Thanks for joining us.

[Bill Cower]

Thanks, Dan. Anytime.

[Dan Patrick]

That's the hall of Famer, Bill Cower. We'll take a break. We're back after this. Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9:00am Eastern, 6:00am Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Hi, I'm Bob Pittman, chairman and CEO of iHeartMedia. I'm excited to introduce a brand new season of my podcast, Math and Magic Stories from the frontiers of Marketing. I'm having conversations with some interesting folks across a wide range of industries here. How they reach the top of their fields and the lessons they learned along the way that everyone can use. I'll be joined by innovative leaders like chairman and CEO of Elf Beauty, Tarang Amin.

[Bill Cower]

The way I approach risk is constantly try things and actually make it okay to fail.

[Dan Patrick]

I'm sitting down with legendary singer, songwriter and philanthropist Jewel. I wanted a way to do something that I loved for the rest of my life. We're also hearing how leaders brought their businesses out of unprecedented times like Stefan Bonsell, CEO of Moderna. It becomes a human decision to decide to throw by the window your business strategy and to do what you think is the right thing for the world. Join me as we uncover innovations in data and analytics, the math and the ever important creative spark, the magic Listen to math and magic stories from the frontiers of Marketing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Mary Kay McBrayer, host of the podcast the Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told. Join me every week as I tell some of the most enthralling true crime stories about women who are not just victims, but heroes or villains, or often somewhere in between. Listen to the greatest true crime stories, stories ever told on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's advice from Google CMO Lorraine Twohill on how to treat AI like a partner. I see AI as an incredible co pilot. You may use different tools or toys to get the work done, but ultimately as editor, as creator, as maker, you own it and it needs to be good. AI is just the latest flavor of that. You're still the judge of what good looks like. I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this Is Working. Leaders like Indra Nooy, Ray Dalio and Rich Paul share strategies for success and the real lessons that have shaped them. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Love at first swipe? I highly doubt it. What's your biggest red flag? No, no, no.

[Bill Cower]

What's your ultimate green flag?

[Dan Patrick]

These days, reality TV and social media have us thinking love is instant. We're marrying strangers at first sight, we're finding love through walls, or we're even judging people by balloon pops. But what really makes a relationship last? On this episode of Doe Platform Labs, poet, author and relationship expert, Young Pueblo.

[Bill Cower]

Breaks down the psychology and biology of loving better and he provides eye opening.

[Dan Patrick]

Insights and advice that we all need.

[Bill Cower]

It's a big realization moment that you.

[Dan Patrick]

Should not be postponing your happiness. Like your greatest happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a relationship. Your partner. They should add to your happiness, but your happiness is really coming from within you. Listen to Dope labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. My name is Harry Houdini. Harry Houdini could make elephants disappear, walk through walls and escape the Chinese water torture cell. But he was also on a mission against mediums.

[Bill Cower]

I have never seen one genuine medium.

[Dan Patrick]

Join me, Tim Harford, for a cautionary tales trilogy on the world's most famous magician.

[Bill Cower]

It takes a Flim Flammer to catch a flim flammer.

[Dan Patrick]

Houdini wanted the world to see reason in an age of spiritualism. He went undercover to seances, exposed fakes and charlatans, and even tried to convince Washington lawmakers to ban mediums for good. A campaign that cost him friends and.

[Bill Cower]

Made him many enemies. They're going to kill me.

[Dan Patrick]

Listen to cautionary tales on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, the fact they get Ben roethlisberger, they were 6 and 10. They bring in Ben. Ben played at Miami of Ohio. And if you see Ben playing in a Mac game, it's like, you know, somebody is playing. That guy should be playing against guys who are his size. You know, you have the guy in the backyard. He's always bigger than everybody else. That was Ben in the Mac. So you have a 65 quarterback in the Mac back then. And I think Ohio State wanted to make him a tight end. And then all of a sudden, the Steelers decide they're going to take him. They don't start him then. They win 13 in a row, but, you know, carved out a Hall of Fame career. But I, I do love that, that Ben would act like he couldn't hear Bill Cower call into play. You gotta be really good. If that's the case. TireRack.com the official tire expert of the DP Show. Go to TireRack.com dan try the tire decision guide. Full lineup of falcon tires, special offers, free road hazard protection, mobile tire installation, tire rack.com the way tire buying should be. Tom in North Carolina. Good morning, Tom. What's on your mind today? Morning, dp. So you might think me as a UNC apologist, but I'm just trying to be fair, like the great Dan Patrick.

[Bill Cower]

So I'm thinking more kind of overlooking.

[Dan Patrick]

The fact that the NCAA gave Duke a really big favor by putting him the first round in Raleigh. With their number one player being kind of in rehab in his ankle.

[Bill Cower]

I mean, these guys can go home.

[Dan Patrick]

Every night after the game. Okay, first of all, Tom, there's nothing more UNC like than taking a shot at Duke. So let's not shift the blame and go. Duke gets to play close to home. This has happened for decades. UCLA used to play in California with their tournament games. You want to pack these arenas. That's another thing you got to factor in. Yes, Marvin, that's also the reward for being the number one seed. You play close to home. Bill in Florida. Hi, Bill. What's on your mind? Good morning Dan. 622 65. You know, I don't know why everybody's making such a big fuss about this whole Aaron Rodgers thing. He did the same exact thing in Green Bay. He wants the attention. He's a one trick pony and even Penn or Teller wouldn't do that trick. Thank you Bill. A Penn and Teller reference there with Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, I may not like it, but I still have to cover this. I saw where Aaron or Adam Schefter was frustrated about this. I'm like, dude, that's your job. Job. Okay, I'm sorry. He, he's not going to make his decision to make everybody's job easier here. You know, I don't like waiting for it. But if, if you give him I would have given him a deadline. I just want to know, do you want to play for my team? And if I would have kept Justin Fields if I was the Steelers. Ever wonder what it would be like to be mentored by today's top business leaders? My podcast this Is Working can help with that. Here's some advice from Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, on standing out from the leadership crowd.

[Bill Cower]

Develop your eq. A lot of people have plenty of brains, but EQ is do you trust me? Do I communicate well? Develop the team, develop the people, create.

[Dan Patrick]

A system of trust.

[Bill Cower]

And it works over time.

[Dan Patrick]

I'm Dan Roth, LinkedIn's editor in chief. On my podcast this Is Working Leaders Share strategies for success. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Reality TV and social media have love all wrong. So what really makes relationships last?

[Bill Cower]

On this episode of Dope Labs, poet and relationship expert Young Pueblo breaks down.

[Dan Patrick]

The psychology of love and provides eye.

[Bill Cower]

Opening insights and advice we all need. You should not be postponing your happiness.

[Dan Patrick]

Your greatest happiness is not necessarily going to like come from a relationship. Your partner should add to your happiness, but your happiness is really coming from within you. Listen to Dope labs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know that 70% of people get hired at companies where they already have a connection? I'm Andrew Seaman, LinkedIn's editor at large for jobs and career development and on my podcast Get Hired, I bring you all the information you need to, well, get hired. Landing a job may be tough, but Get Hired is here for you every step of the way with advice on resumes, networking, negotiation and so much more. Listen to Get Hired with Andrew seaman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you like to listen. Are you hungry?

[Bill Cower]

Colleen Witt here and Eating While Broke is back for season four every Thursday on the Black of Podcast Network. This season we've got a legendary lineup.

[Dan Patrick]

Serving up broke dishes and even better.

[Bill Cower]

Stories on the menu.

[Dan Patrick]

We have Tony Baker, Nick Cannon, Melissa.

[Bill Cower]

Ford, October London and Carrie Harper. Howie turning Big Macs into big moves. Catch Eating While Broke every Thursday on the Black Effect Podcast Network. IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast.

[Dan Patrick]

Wherever you get your favorite shows, come.

[Bill Cower]

Hungry for season four.

[Dan Patrick]

French dressing. Exactly. That's good. I'm A.J. jacobs and my current obsession is puzzles and that has given birth to my podcast the Puzzler. Something about Mary Poppins? Exactly.

[Bill Cower]

This is fun.

[Dan Patrick]

You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.