Dan Patrick (2:17)

You are listening to the Dan Patrick show on Fox Sports Radio. Final hour in this Tuesday Dan and the Danites Dan Patrick Show. We will talk sports analytics coming up here momentarily. Also, Reggie Miller will stop by. Stat of the DAY is always brought to you by Panini America, the official trading cards of the program. NBA on NBC and Peacock every Tuesday prime time, coast to coast, Bucks and Sixers and then in the west, the Clippers and the Jazz. It all begins tonight, 8 Eastern on NBC. And Peacock. Peacock is where you can also watch this program along with the NBC Sports Network. 877-3-DP show email address dpdanpatrick.com Twitter handle @DP Show Seton update the poll results and what are we going with in the final hour of the program? Yeah, we have up there right now which wins more games, gut feelings or analytics? Gut feeling. Running away with that one still well over 70%. And which would NFL fans prefer in the new head coach of their team, the hot young assistant or the older established coach? Hot young assistants. Dominating. Okay.

Sam Schwartzstein (3:23)

Of course.

Dan Patrick (3:24)

And do we have a poll question for the final hour? We have a couple here from Todd that are very funny, but one of them was and I'm not sure what.

Sam Schwartzstein (3:33)

Kind of commentary he's making here, but.

Dan Patrick (3:35)

How often do you think a sporting event is fixed? What? Very often? Every once in a while or never. When is the last time you thought something was fixed?

Sam Schwartzstein (3:47)

Not very recently. I was more having fun with that.

Reggie Miller (3:50)

Poster of showing the two quarterbacks that.

Sam Schwartzstein (3:52)

Just happened to make him the Super Bowl.

Reggie Miller (3:53)

The coincidence of this NFL posted everybody's in the whole world is talking about.

Sam Schwartzstein (3:57)

How did they have the two quarterbacks.

Reggie Miller (3:59)

Playing in the super bowl right at the very front of this NFL posted.

Dan Patrick (4:03)

Next to the Lombardi Trophy so people would be willing to go to jail is what you're saying. Sure. It's happened before to fix the game.

Sam Schwartzstein (4:08)

There's currently things going on right now.

Reggie Miller (4:10)

In the news with the allegations and point shaving and all kinds of stuff.

Dan Patrick (4:14)

Okay.

Sam Schwartzstein (4:15)

I would have, I would go every.

Reggie Miller (4:17)

Once in a while. I won't say never, but I'll say every once in a while.

Dan Patrick (4:22)

All right. Thank you, Todd. We've been talking analytics. We've been talking analytics since The Denver Broncos 4th and 1 call those who were all in on going forward at fourth and one and those who thought he should kick the field goal in that situation. Sam Schwartzstein does this for a living. Amazon prime, the football analytics expert there. When did analytics become a bad word here in sports?

Sam Schwartzstein (4:52)

I will. I don't know. For me, it's always been a good word. When I was playing at Stanford, we used it a ton on decision making, mostly from a team tendency point of view. But I think what happened when early 2000s when teams started changing how they approached the decision making process and we're using what has been popularized from the hitting game of football, which is a based off of a lot of the hitting game of baseball where we're able to find that field position can contribute a lot to what you're likely to do next or predict out the future scenarios and how much harder it is to play from inside your own five. And you know with the dawn of football, three points, two field goal possessions is actually worse than one touchdown possession with the seven points. And that changing a lot of how we can approach the math of a game. I think probably the early to late 2000 and tens is when it started to shift and become a big thing in that and anytime you change it's gonna, it's gonna cause some friction there.

Dan Patrick (5:49)

Just feels like if we said probability people wouldn't have as much of a problem as analytics. Sounds like I'm smarter than you as opposed to probability. We just, I don't know, we don't recoil when we hear probability.

Sam Schwartzstein (6:05)

You're hitting the nail on the head. And a large part of the decision making process in analytics as you say is the conversion probability. Right. In that fourth and one the next gen stats model had a 65% to convert. But when you look at it from a run versus pass scenario, 70% on the run and 55% on the pass and they choose to call pass play, right. So it's changing the math based on the play call. I think that's what's hard when you have these public models like the next gen stats model or different models that can often come up with different solutions. You're never going to have all the information that the team has. But what these models can do is help inform how should you game plan. When I used to consult with teams I would say just like you have a third down period, you should start thinking about having a fourth down period and new play designs. Things like the Tush push come out of it. At Stanford we had a 95% conversion rate on short yardage 1 I moved the ball forward a yard and a half typically until Notre Dame found out. And then for on the other side of it was we had a unique play design looked a lot like the Tush push. We call it 64 lead dive. When we were running behind David De Castro and handing the ball off to guys like Stefan Taylor. It's going to convert. And so it changes the math and the pro and the conversion Probability and you need to focus on mostly hey, here's a guiding principle on how you should approach fourth down. But the conversion probably is so important. And when I would consult with teams is all about it's conversion probably is not real. It's what's happened before in the similar situations. It's how confident are you in your play call in that scenario.

Dan Patrick (7:40)

Yeah, but I'm trying to understand this Sam, that the game is fluid. It's can I upgrade my analytics during a game that's going to factor in their defensive line is better than we thought. The wind is whipping up, the weather is coming in. You, you already are factoring in Jared Stidham into this equation before the game. But how do you upgrade during a game?

Sam Schwartzstein (8:05)

That's a big part of what teams do. So the teams will. You'll often hear people go, go buy the book. Well they actually print out a book based on what they think the game will be like and what scenario they're in to help guide their decision. And you look old school with the slide roll looking for the situation go okay coach, if we get to 4th and 2 or less here we should go for it. He says that typically the analytics expert, him or her will say that on around the first down once they cross the 50 and special scenarios maybe sometimes in their own territory and they're giving that feedback on first down. So you know what to do on fourth down. And so what happens with the update is if you predicted this to be a shootout and no one's moving the ball, kind of got to start going off a field there, right? Or if you entered a scenario 4th and 4 and you've already used all your really good 4th and 4 place and they have a beat on what you're doing on 4th and 4th that might change your confidence in your conversion probability in those scenarios and ultimately in these fourth ones. And you're going to get models telling you to go for it. You really need to have the QB sneak involved because that changes the math so much that if you QB sneak on fourth and one it has a conversion probably in league wide around 72%. We know the tush push and Josh Allen is different and better if you don't. Even if you run the ball it's still around a 54% conversion prob. So it changes the math based on that play design. So if those plays aren't working and you have to move off of it, it's just as valuable as the weather changing or hey, we expected something out of this Drake may offense that they're not performing that way, it might change our decision making.

Dan Patrick (9:38)

But if I have analytics and you have analytics, chances are they're going to sync up. I know what you're doing and you know what I'm doing. Don't they cancel each other out?

Sam Schwartzstein (9:50)

No, because of how valuable field position is and it's why we're seeing lower scoring games, shorter games and fewer drives. When I, when I did the rulebook at the XFL, it was 12, 12 and a half drives per game. It's down to 11 drives per game. That might have seen a lot, but that's one fewer scoring opportunity because we're having longer drives and you're starting in different field position spots. You know, as good as the dynamic kickoff is helping teams start closer, failed fourth down conversion inside the five, you don't see those points on the scoreboard. But when you look at the expected points, team score only probably 3% of the time when they start inside their own 5 yard line. So it changes. Oh, okay. Now you're likely to get the ball back in scoring position and that's what's going through the mind of Sean Payton. Because hey, even if I don't fail here, my defense is playing great. I'll still likely get the ball back on my own 40, which is a great spot to start.

Dan Patrick (10:41)

Okay, that's fair. What would you have done in the moment? What did you say in the moment on the fourth and one call by the Broncos?

Sam Schwartzstein (10:49)

Well, I was on a plane to London. That's where I'm doing this call from right now. We started our innovation process. So I was on gamecast going to get the game streaming, but I, I probably go for it there. It depends on the game plan. Jared Stidham, they, they felt confident his running ability.

Dan Patrick (11:02)

I hate that call though, Sam.

Sam Schwartzstein (11:03)

I hate it. I hate it too. I would rather him have his own read or something. But to me I'm basing a lot of my fourth and one decision off of QB sneak and I really want to have it. It's why I love the teams that use the giant tight end to go in and do it because you're not contingent on the quarterback or putting the quarterback in danger to do it. And A.J. barner, a Connor Hayward, those scenarios I would probably lean on. And when one of the beautiful things about next gen stats is we actually see where the ball actually was on TV, you're just going to see it says 4th and 1 is actually 4th and 1 plus 4 or 1.4 yards. So because we're in that little it's not an integer, it's not a solid number on every time to go for it. That's probably why they wanted to call the bootleg. But I I also don't like the call. When I would do the rules of the xfl, I never would tell the coaches what play to call because that's not my expertise. Right. I have certain things I like to do but I'm not a play caller or play a designer and so I'm going to lean on Sean Payton for what he wants to do. But he probably doesn't love the call either right now.

Dan Patrick (12:02)

No, I don't think he does. Gut feeling over analytics, how do you balance that?

Sam Schwartzstein (12:10)

I from my point of view, I lean heavily on the analytics and that drives my gut feeling. If you watch Prime Vision with next gen stats, you're going to hear me talk about team tendencies and how they approach the game Very similar how I prepared for games all driven by analytics and data where where I think gut feeling can come in is the same thing about those numbers. If I know you aren't going to blitz from your numbers, it can be a tendency breaker and can beat me. If I know that you're doing a tendency breaker in game, I might change my thinking. So I always thought and the Patriots.

Dan Patrick (12:42)

Did something different though because you had two linemen who came right through on that play and the defensive back could have had an interception. So they completely knew what was going on here.

Sam Schwartzstein (12:54)

Exactly. And that's where they're lining up in a unique formation. Stop the sneak as well as give the a tougher read to the quarterback. And I think that's where first half timeouts I don't really have too much. I'm not holding on to them as much as I am for the second half timeouts. So if you see something funky, we talk about that all the time at Prime. It's like when we have our red orb show up and something funky is going on. Like hey, chill out a little bit, let's take a breather before you just really dive in.

Dan Patrick (13:22)

How much do you factor in the pressure of the game? That regular season is one thing, but playoff game and now Super Bowl Sunday.

Sam Schwartzstein (13:31)

What happens in football is so much of the game is hinged on about six plays. We play of 130 scrimmage plays per game, about 180 plays total and six plays made aside the game just like been at the poker table. You can win over time playing small hands, but you get rich playing the big hands. You could also Bust. And I think there's certain teams, if I'm a much better team and I feel much better on my confidence, I'm going to be probably less likely to run more dangerous plays versus if I'm the underdog in that scenario, I'm probably going to hedge higher on putting all my chips on the table.

Dan Patrick (14:09)

Did you play for Jim Harbaugh?

Sam Schwartzstein (14:11)

I played three years for Jim and two years for coach Shaw. David Shaw.

Dan Patrick (14:14)

Okay. Harbaugh buy into analytics?

Sam Schwartzstein (14:20)

Depends. Tendencies. Very much driven by it. So at Stanford we had under Greg Roman, he started this was the kill and alert system and it was all based on team tendencies and it all depended on what he thought his team could do great. We had big Fangio calling plays for us. This thing about that Stanford football team like Vic Cullen plays, you had Andrew Luck. There's a funny meme from one of the message boards saying Sam Schwarzeneg was only non millionaire from that offense, you know, still true. And I think, you know, that was a big focus on what they wanted to do. But we also had a stellar defense and so he's bought in on anything that'll help him win. And I think that's, that's the big thing with him. And Coach Shaw is a very similar way. People would hate when Coach Shaw would punt from opponent territory. But hey, we won the Rose bowl, something Jim never did, you know, so it was a big, big deal for how do I play to my team strengths.

Dan Patrick (15:15)

But you also were cheating when you would hike the ball but you moved it up. Right. So how do you move? Okay, how do you do that? And nobody's calling you on it.

Sam Schwartzstein (15:26)

I'm going to have to show you next week. Hopefully you guys are in Santa Clara for San Francisco. But normal. What I would do is it's crazy. It's short yardage, fourth down, everyone's screaming, going nuts. I would line up with my feet parallel on top of the ball and as I'm calling the mic point out, I would just move the ball forward and I would move it out so I would extend my stance from my feet. In the Fiesta Bowl I got two offsides penalties called on. Oklahoma State didn't help us win the game because the officials were like they're lined up offsides. But they lined up before I got set and so that's why they got called offsides.

Dan Patrick (16:01)

But Notre Dame busted you.

Sam Schwartzstein (16:03)

Yeah, Notre Dame's. I remember being on the team playing and we landed. I'm pretty excited. I'm captain in first class. Excited we're going a couple days early and Coach Shaw says, hey, Sammy, I need you to stay on the plane. I got to talk to you. And I'm nervous. What could this be? That I flunk out of a class? I don't know what, what I did. He's like, Notre Dame sending 13 clips. Are you moving the ball forward?

Dan Patrick (16:24)

We gotta fix it.

Sam Schwartzstein (16:26)

And Sean Hockley made sure to yell at me every single play that game. And we lost in overtime. Not that the, the scars are still.

Dan Patrick (16:32)

There, but great stuff, Sam. Safe travels. And hopefully we'll cross paths in San Francisco.

Sam Schwartzstein (16:38)

Have a going. Thanks. Dream come true.

Dan Patrick (16:40)

All right, Sam Schwartzstein, Thursday night football analytics expert. That's good. Hopefully it gave you a little more definition, a little more clarity on that, but it's all about probability. But I still go back to what you know and what I know and your analytics. How much different are they than what I have? We'll take a break. More of your phone calls. We make way for Reggie Miller. He'll join us next here. Dan PATRICK Show Be sure to catch the live edition of the Dan Patrick show, weekdays at 9am Eastern, 6am Pacific.

Sam Schwartzstein (17:15)

On Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app. Hey, it's Ben, host of the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller. Would mean a lot to have you join us on our weekly auditory journey. You're asking, what in God's name is the fifth hour? I'll tell you, it's a spin off of the Ben Mather Show, a cult hit overnights on fsr. Why should you listen?

Dan Patrick (17:34)

Picture, if you will, a world where.

Sam Schwartzstein (17:35)

We chat with captains of industry in media, sports and more every week, explore some amazing facts about human nature and more. Listen to the fifth hour with Ben Mather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Joel and Matt (How To Money) (17:48)

New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the how to Money podcast. And every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Podcast Narrator (18:16)

What if mind control is real?

Sam Schwartzstein (18:18)

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

Podcast Narrator (18:21)

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy.

Dan Patrick (18:24)

A car when you look at your.

Sam Schwartzstein (18:26)

Car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

Podcast Narrator (18:29)

Can you hypnotize someone into something sleeping with you?

Sam Schwartzstein (18:32)

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

Podcast Narrator (18:35)

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

Sam Schwartzstein (18:52)

It's about engineering consciousness.

Podcast Narrator (18:54)

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nav Green (19:19)

This show contains information subject to but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up man? This your boy Nav Green from the Broken Play podc. Look, it's the end of the season. The playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcast with Nav Green on the Black Effect podcast network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoff. The Chiefs. What's a wrap? It's time to rebuild. Who your MVP right now. Then Drake May up there, Josh Allen up there still.

Reggie Miller (19:51)

Oh, my boy Matthew Stafford.

Podcast Narrator (19:54)

Where did Bo Nicks at?

Sam Schwartzstein (19:56)

He ain't too far behind.

Podcast Narrator (19:57)

He did all this stuff talking.

Reggie Miller (19:58)

What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically bro is crazy.

Nav Green (20:01)

Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan, but Matthew Stafford got better weapon. Caleb Williams.

Reggie Miller (20:07)

Hey, he should be in that conversation.

Podcast Narrator (20:08)

In what conversation?

Nav Green (20:09)

He should be in it. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

Podcast Narrator (20:19)

On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all out manhunt for John Ajay. Every search and rescue team in LA county has been called in to help. Within days, tips started flooding into the sheriff's department. They ruler around the drug scene. Was that a deputy was taken care of. Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department?

Reggie Miller (20:50)

A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent.

Sam Schwartzstein (20:55)

Who does that?

Podcast Narrator (20:57)

Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance?

Caller (21:09)

I wouldn't do it alone.

Podcast Narrator (21:12)

Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Patrick (21:19)

Coast to coast Tuesday double header Bucks visiting Tyrese maxey and the 76ers tip off at 8 Eastern. Noah Eagle handles play by play with Reggie Miller. And Reggie's scheduled to be a guest on the Tonight show on Thursday with Jimmy Fallon. Wait, really?

Reggie Miller (21:41)

Really? Okay, I got the invite. I'm going to show up.

Dan Patrick (21:46)

What are you going to talk about?

Reggie Miller (21:48)

I think we are previewing and highlighting Sunday night basketball in America. You know, we are going to take that time slot now. Now that football is coming to an end, Sunday night basketball is beginning with my good friend and the legendary Mike Tirico and Jamal Crawford. So three man booth. And starting this Sunday, the Lakers versus.

Dan Patrick (22:18)

The Knicks.

Reggie Miller (22:21)

In my second home.

Dan Patrick (22:23)

Is everybody going to be available to play in that game?

Reggie Miller (22:26)

Well, I hope so, LeBron, you mean because something blockbuster might.

Dan Patrick (22:34)

No, no, no, no. I'll get to that in a moment. I just want to make sure all hands, like, I never assume everybody's playing in a game now. It's unfortunate, but I hope that they do.

Reggie Miller (22:47)

They are. It's not unfortunate, but isn't it sad? Isn't it sad that you even have to think about that? I mean, we never thought about that back in the day. I don't want to go down this route about what we did in my day. But it's sad that fans like yourself, because I consider you a fan of the game as well, that fans would even be like, well, who's going to be playing?

Sam Schwartzstein (23:07)

Is any.

Reggie Miller (23:07)

Is everyone going to be available? You just didn't think about those things back in the day when you knew if someone had a legit injury, well, you knew they weren't playing. Yeah, but you know, when there's four games and five nights, the availabilities of some stars. I don't know if you'll get them those four games in those five nights.

Dan Patrick (23:25)

But I don't know. Like Giannis's injury. He's out four to six.

Reggie Miller (23:29)

He's out tonight.

Dan Patrick (23:30)

Yeah. Playing tonight, but like four to six weeks, is that. Does he play again for Milwaukee?

Reggie Miller (23:36)

That is. Look, I. I've been kind of scratching my head. If you are a Bucks fan and you live in the, in the state of Wisconsin, could you have seen Giannis's last game in a Bucks uniform? I hope Not. But look, there seems to be writing on the wall. He's open to being traded again. He has not come out and said, I want to be traded. But you hear the from the buck side now that it may be beneficial from their end as well to clear the books and close this chapter again. We don't know. This is all talk. This is all people just throwing out ideas and, you know, coming up with rumors and so forth. But we know he won't be playing tonight. What we do believe, because Joel and Paul George didn't play. And that thrilling loss last night for the Sixers versus the Hornets at one point.

Dan Patrick (24:40)

Oh my God.

Reggie Miller (24:41)

Down 50 at the end of three. I believe we will have Joel and Paul George in attendance tonight. Whoa. But they got to make up the difference versus this undermanned Milwaukee team.

Dan Patrick (24:59)

We've been talking a lot of analytics related to the Broncos loss, and I'm curious when analytics came in to the NBA.

Reggie Miller (25:10)

I believe early to mid 2000s, I think, right as I was basically retiring, I think people started to look at the stats more. 3 versus 2. That's when you started to get threes, free throws and layups and the mid range game kind of started to become a little bit more obsolete and you started to play more in space and pace. So I would say around 2005, 6, 7. And then it just kind of took.

Dan Patrick (25:46)

Off from there because you don't have to encourage somebody to take a three now, whereas when you were playing, you know, if somebody took three threes in a game or four, that felt like a lot. Now you might do that in the first quarter.

Reggie Miller (26:02)

Funny question. Hall of Fame coach, arguably one of the best coaches I ever played for in Larry Brown. He used to look at me crazy when I was taking five to seven threes during that run from 94 to when he left, I believe in 97, 98. Like he jumped all on me because I was taking threes. I mean, he was like livid. I just wonder what he would think about in today's games where. I mean, and it's not so much to me, it's who's taking.

Dan Patrick (26:39)

Yes.

Reggie Miller (26:39)

I mean, you've got centers, power. Everyone's taking threes.

Sam Schwartzstein (26:42)

It.

Reggie Miller (26:43)

It just is not the point guard or the. Or the shooting guards. It's. I mean, assistant coaches are taking threes now from the bench.

Dan Patrick (26:51)

I go back to Rick Pitino at Providence when Billy Donovan was one of his players. Rick is one of the first coaches who ever embraced the three because he had a small lineup and he shot the three and then I go back to Paul Westhead at Loyola Marymount. They were going to run you and they'll give you your two, but they're going to come down and shoot the three. Like these are two legendary moments, coaching moments in history and how they've affected the game.

Reggie Miller (27:22)

I think we also have to throw Don Nelson in there as well. Run tmc. They were kind of ahead of their schedule with Chris Mullen, Mitch Richmond, Tim Hardaway, Sharonis Marceloness.

Dan Patrick (27:35)

And also he didn't have to have a big man either. No, he was the first coach who said I don't need to have 611, seven footer. My center can be six, seven.

Reggie Miller (27:46)

And they played small and they tried to run you off the court. They tried to outscore you and they didn't. I mean they had some success but not great success. And I don't think that really caught on in the 90s, but boy has it come full circle now when you look back at those Nelly teams and how they performed and think about the success, you know, those teams had.

Dan Patrick (28:12)

Back.

Reggie Miller (28:12)

In the Bay Area as well when they upset that when Dallas was the number one seed with Dirk and all that and you had Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Matty Barnes, those teams came full circle.

Dan Patrick (28:25)

Reggie Miller on the call. Tonight at 8 Eastern it'll be the Bucks visiting the 76ers. Mac McClung. No slam dunk contest. Why?

Reggie Miller (28:35)

No, no 4 Pete. Right? That would be a four piece.

Dan Patrick (28:39)

What, what, what is holding up his schedule?

Reggie Miller (28:43)

Maybe he turned it down.

Dan Patrick (28:45)

Well, I'm going to guess that he did, but I mean that's what you're known for.

Reggie Miller (28:52)

Three time winner was looking for a 4 Pete. Yeah, maybe he turned it down. Look, there's only so many dunks a human being can possibly do. And I give him credit because he saved the dunk contest the last few years. And if you're not going to have big names, thank God Matt, he, he brought the funk, as we call it, because he saved the dunk contest. But again, you and I have been down this road. I think the three point competition has surpassed them because I mean you, everyone's counting in the arena. You just don't know in the dunk contest if a guy's going to make a dunk, how many attempts he gets. The luster comes off when he misses his first dunk. At least in the three point competition it's make or miss and you know the number.

Dan Patrick (29:44)

Why can't we do the. And we've, we've discussed this, that we had the Old and the new. In a three point shooting contest where you have Dell Curry and Steph Curry, you know, you could be there with Klay Thompson or you and Halliburton if he was healthy. But I mean it'd be kind of fun to embrace the past and the present in a three point shooting contest.

Reggie Miller (30:09)

I would be on board with that.

Sam Schwartzstein (30:11)

That.

Reggie Miller (30:12)

I mean, obviously us old timers would have to have some type of handicap, but. And let the current day players, you know, do the bigger role. But I would be on board with that because the last thing that to ever leave because you could get a Craig Hodges who can still shoot. Peja Storjakovic who can still shoot. Mark Price who can still shoot the Steve Kerr can still shoot. I mean it would be cool to kind of see some of these old timers and you pair them with the modern day three point gunslingers.

Dan Patrick (30:47)

But I give you one rack, Reg. Like the old guys only have to do one rack. So you get to pick your spot. You know, Hodges will be at the top of the key, you might be in the corner, Steve Kerr at the top of the key, Peja on the wing and you, you just stand by your.

Sam Schwartzstein (31:03)

We do.

Reggie Miller (31:03)

We just do one rack. You don't even have to move.

Dan Patrick (31:06)

No.

Reggie Miller (31:07)

Oh man. Sign me up.

Dan Patrick (31:09)

What do you think?

Reggie Miller (31:10)

Oh, sign me up. I would do that in a heartbeat. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Dan Patrick (31:15)

Derrick Rose got his jersey retired. Is he going to the hall of Fame?

Reggie Miller (31:22)

I would be surprised if he doesn't. He will be the only MVP not to be in the hall of Fame.

Dan Patrick (31:29)

Man, if he didn't get first ballot.

Reggie Miller (31:31)

I doubt he'll be first ballot. But he'll get in at some point. But for a six to eight year stretch he was. Him and LeBron were battling for who was the best player in the game and the youngest mvp. I would be surprised at some point he's going to get in all MVPs get in.

Dan Patrick (31:54)

Man. He was a thing.

Reggie Miller (31:57)

I've said this on numerous occasions when I first started on this side of the aisle and calling games, I would pay, I would have paid to watch him play. He was so electrifying and his demeanor, because he wasn't one of those cocky kind of guys, but he exuded confidence and it just permeated because he, you know, he let the other guys because Joaquin Noah was the guy who was like cocky and flashy, doing all the talking and Luau Dang was, you know, quiet, kind of like D. Rose. Coach Thibs just had those guys. Oh man, I, I would have paid money to watch Derrick Rose. He was that electrifying.

Dan Patrick (32:45)

But, and it's weird to say this, that he may mean more to Chicago because he was local than Michael Jordan. Like, Jordan gave you the titles, gave me all of that. But Derrick Rose, local, one of your own, and becoming a league MVP and, you know, a Hall of Famer, born and bred.

Reggie Miller (33:06)

And at some point, that's why LeBron was so loved and then became so hated, because he was born and bred in Ohio, played high school and was obviously drafted by them. And then they felt betrayal when, you know, he left and took his talents to south beach, but made up for it by coming back and winning them, you know, their only championship. So you're right when in terms of pecking order, yes, Michael Jordan, he has all the accolades. Fantastic. But to me, the two people I will always think about in Chicago, number one, Derrick Rose, Isaiah Thomas, too. I mean, when you think of Chicago basketball, a lot of times his name doesn't get mentioned. Isaiah needs to be mentioned as one of the great Chicago athletes of all time.

Dan Patrick (34:05)

Are the Lakers a threat? Like, what's the threat level for them right now without making any moves?

Reggie Miller (34:12)

Well, I think everyone's holding their cards right now because they want to see what's going to happen with Giannis and what's going to happen with John Moran and some of these, Anthony Davis, you know, these are names that, you know, everyone assumes are going to be traded. So I think the Lakers are kind of keeping their cards close to the vest. Are they a threat? I mean, when Luke is going to put up 46 a night. Yeah, they'll always have a puncher's chance. If this was a heavyweight fight. Yes, they will always have a puncher's chance because of this playmaking and the scoring of Luca and having one of the all time greats in LeBron on your team. So there's your puncher's chance. The problem is when you get locked into a series, things start to get taken away and things start to get exposed. That's where they're going to run into problems.

Dan Patrick (35:03)

You know, Rich Paul joining his podcast with Max Kellerman, and then says, hey, if I'm running the Lakers, I trade Austin Reaves and I try to get Jaren Jackson Jr. You, you can't say that without us reading into. You have to have had this conversation with your client LeBron James, correct?

Reggie Miller (35:24)

Yes, you have. And I. Look, LeBron has come out and said all the right things that he doesn't speak for me, and that's his. He's saying all the right things. But look, they're boys. That's my agent. We've, yes, they've had this conversation before. But if you're rich, Paul, you can't do it because now if, look, if I'm AR and I'm looking at, I'm looking at LeBron, like really, this is how, this is how you think of me, you know, so I'm sure he's taking his time coming back too, having known what he said now I know he's supposed to play on this. Hopefully he'll play in that Sunday night, Sunday night game. That would be great for him to make his debut. But if you're rich, Paul, you can't do it. You can't say that.

Dan Patrick (36:11)

Nick's going to trade Carl Anthony Towns?

Reggie Miller (36:17)

I don't think so.

Dan Patrick (36:19)

Would you trade him?

Reggie Miller (36:21)

Depends on what I'm getting back. I wouldn't because the way the game is played today, you've got to have bigs that stretch the floor check, rebound check. He averages a double double. He's just got him and Mike Brown, Jalen Brunson, they've got to figure this out. And this is no fault to JB Brunson, but I think he has. He's going to probably have to bring help bring Cat along here because it's just to night and day from what we saw just a year ago. 24:13 All NBA All Star and then just the struggles he's having this year, it's just is mind blowing and I think Brunson is going to have to help bring him along.

Dan Patrick (37:09)

Have fun tonight. Good to talk to you, buddy.

Reggie Miller (37:11)

It's always a pleasure to talk to you, Theodore and my dad miss you guys.

Dan Patrick (37:16)

That's Reggie Aloysius Miller Jr. III, hall of Famer and he'll be on the call with Noah Eagle tonight and tip off at 8 Eastern. It'll be the Bucks without Giannis against the 76ers, by the way, every January we're told to start over, but real progress doesn't happen overnight. Neutrophil, the best selling hair growth supplement brand targets the root causes of thinning from within. For visibly thicker, Stronger hair in three to six months, skip the shortcuts. Visit neutrophil.com promo code Dan Patrick, back with your phone calls. What we learn what's in store tomorrow after this.

Sam Schwartzstein (37:50)

FOX Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

Dan Patrick (37:54)

Catch all of our shows@foxsportsradio.com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

Joel and Matt (How To Money) (38:02)

New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt. And I'm Joel. We are from the how to Money podcast. And every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Podcast Narrator (38:30)

What if mind control is real?

Sam Schwartzstein (38:32)

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

Podcast Narrator (38:35)

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

Sam Schwartzstein (38:39)

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

Podcast Narrator (38:43)

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

Sam Schwartzstein (38:46)

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

Podcast Narrator (38:49)

Can you get someone to join your cult?

Dan Patrick (38:52)

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

Podcast Narrator (38:55)

Nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

Sam Schwartzstein (39:06)

It's about engineering consciousness.

Podcast Narrator (39:08)

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work. This is wild. Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nav Green (39:33)

This show contains information subject to but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This your boy, Nav Green from the Broken Play podcast. Look, it's the end of the season. The playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcast with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Another team who ain't going to the playoff? The Chiefs. What's a wrap? It's time to rebuild. Who your MVP right now, then Drake May up there.

Reggie Miller (40:03)

Josh Allen up there still. Oh, my boy Matthew Stafford.

Podcast Narrator (40:08)

Where did Bo Nicks at?

Sam Schwartzstein (40:10)

He ain't too far behind.

Podcast Narrator (40:11)

He did all this talking.

Reggie Miller (40:12)

What Matthew Stafford is doing statistically, bro, is crazy.

Nav Green (40:15)

Bro, you know I ain't no Josh Allen fan, but Matthew Stafford got better weapon. Caleb Williams.

Reggie Miller (40:21)

Hey, he should be in that conversation.

Dan Patrick (40:22)

In what conversation?

Nav Green (40:24)

Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect podcast Network. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Podcast Narrator (40:33)

On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all out manhunt for John Ajay. Every search and rescue team in LA county has been called in to help. Within days, tips started flooding into the sheriff's department. The rumor around the drug scene was that a deputy was taken care of. Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department?

Reggie Miller (41:03)

A homicide captain saying, detective, do not.

Dan Patrick (41:07)

Find out if this guy's guilty or innocent.

Sam Schwartzstein (41:09)

Who does that?

Podcast Narrator (41:11)

Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance?

Caller (41:23)

I wouldn't do it alone.

Podcast Narrator (41:26)

Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Dan Patrick (41:33)

Steelers will welcome Mike McCarthy in a couple of hours. Mark Schlerith, the former offensive lineman for the Broncos was on yesterday and he kind of stirred up the Internet when he talked about his dislike of analytics.

Reggie Miller (41:49)

Yeah, Dan, you know, it's really funny. I get into arguments because I hate analytics. I hate all analytics people. I don't like nerds and, and I, I always get into this with, with guys, you like the two point conversion play and we got to go for it on fourth down and all this stuff and you know, you get the sample size of data. But hey man, if I haven't blocked your defensive front all day long, right, that data changes. If my guards can't handle your three techniques, if my tackles can't handle your defensive ends, then we need to change like that. Math doesn't work. Math has never made a tackle. Math has never blocked anybody. Math has never done any of that stuff.

Dan Patrick (42:28)

That's Mark Schlerith who retired in 2000. Games changed an awful lot. And if you change the word to probability, I don't think people would have anywhere near the problem. You know, the old school people, Mark Schlerith, Michael Wilbon, they hear analytics, they think, oh, those aren't sports guys. That's okay. There, there are a lot of coaches, managers who weren't good at good athletes. Good enough athletes to play in the NBA or baseball or football. But they're smart people. And when you get to that level, it certainly helps being smart. Richard in Tucson. Hey, Richard.

Caller (43:12)

Hey, Dan. Hey, Dan. Thanks for taking my call. You know, I've been listening to analytics for a long time, and I've never heard it framed this way. I see analytics as simply a tool in the toolbox. And all craftsmen have basically the same tools, but it's the master craftsman that knows what tool to use or when to use it and how to use it. And that's. That, to me, is where it all boils down to.

Dan Patrick (43:38)

Thank you. That's simplifying it, Richard. Thank you. Let's see. Dane in Texas. Dane, thanks for holding. What's on your mind?

Caller (43:49)

Hey, good morning, Dan. I've got two victories for a gut feeling that the feed analytics, and they're beautiful examples. Plus one game that you and I both know was fixed. Okay, my. The victory of the gut feeling starts with a game of chess. And that was game six of the world championship against Fischer and Spassy. Apparently in game six, Fisher used an unorthodox move called the English opening. And he knew that Spassy's team would not have rehearsed a response to that. So by going, you know, contradictory or maybe more against the grain. Yeah, he beats basket.

Sam Schwartzstein (44:30)

And then.

Caller (44:31)

Oh, and then the Rumble in the jungle. Remember when Ali went on the ropes second round.

Dan Patrick (44:37)

Rope it up.

Caller (44:38)

Oh, we thought we were watching it on closed circuit, my dad and I, and we thought he was dead. And then right around round five, my dad said, nah, he tricked him.

Dan Patrick (44:47)

I thought that they were going to stop the fight. I thought that Ali was taking that much of a punish that, you know, he was getting brutal. Brutalized. I thought they were going to stop the fight. But. What else do you have to say, Dan?

Caller (44:59)

Oh, and this. Remember, you'll remember this game. And this is one game that I cried. I was so frustrated. The 1972 Olympic Games, the gold medal basketball game. The United States and Russia, those. They fixed that game that was fixed.

Dan Patrick (45:15)

Well, they kept trying to fix the outcome because they would be like they were giving the Soviet Union, like three tries, and they eventually scored to win the gold medal. What a shame. And you know, I applaud the US Team that said, I don't want that silver because we earned the gold. We don't want that silver medal. Let's see. Sergey in Oregon.

Caller (45:41)

Hey, what's up, Dan? And that's. That's Sergio, bro. Hey, Don, the other day I heard you going on a little rant about the Raiders. Should have taken Mendoza. Wow, bro. Like, I think everybody in Raider Nation just fell off.

Dan Patrick (45:53)

No, no, no. Hold on. I would consider all options. Okay. It. That's what I said. You need more than Just having a franchise quarterback and you don't have the infrastructure, there can be death for a young quarterback. So I said, what if somebody's going to blow you away if you're the Raiders? Would you consider that? And I would, absolutely. I don't want to draft a quarterback and then build my offensive line. I want to build my offensive line and then try to get my quarterback. So that's. That's what I said. So it's in context.

Caller (46:26)

Okay, yes, sir, you did say that. Yes, you absolutely did say that. Dan, you better start blowing real hard down because, I mean, like. I mean, we have like one like 118mil top three, like most salary cap. We could buy a couple pieces on the office to kind of have that.

Dan Patrick (46:42)

Well, you should have done that last year, too. Yes, Paulie.

Sam Schwartzstein (46:48)

The Buffalo Bills are finalizing a deal to make OC Joe Brady their new head coach, according to Adam Schefter.

Dan Patrick (46:55)

Oh, see, okay, Joe Brady, he was at lsu.

Sam Schwartzstein (47:01)

He got a lot of run for the Joe Burrow era at lsu.

Dan Patrick (47:04)

Yeah. Now he gets promoted. Okay, good for him. Bucky in Notre dame. Hey, Buck.

Caller (47:13)

T.P. let me turn my radio down. Can you guys hear me? Yes, I'm driving. It's another blizzard up here, but I was calling to find out. Notre Dame usually does, like, three concerts a year. They've already announced two of them. Do you know with your insight, who the third concert is in the middle of the summer? And if it's a big band or a big older band, let's say rock band, Would you guys come back to Notre Dame and do your show again?

Dan Patrick (47:48)

Well, who's the band?

Caller (47:50)

Well, with your insights, do you know who it is yet?

Dan Patrick (47:54)

Yes, Eaton. I'm gonna. Can we guess? Yeah, go ahead. My guess is Creed.

Caller (48:05)

Boy, I hope you guys are right. And by the way, six foot, you don't know.

Dan Patrick (48:09)

Wait, I don't know.

Caller (48:10)

I was calling you guys.

Dan Patrick (48:11)

Holly, do you have the answer?

Sam Schwartzstein (48:12)

I'm seeing that Luke Combs with other country artists are playing there. April 18, 2026, AC DC September 4, 2026.

Dan Patrick (48:23)

Well, those are two. He said there's three.

Sam Schwartzstein (48:25)

I don't have a third listed.

Dan Patrick (48:29)

Or.

Sam Schwartzstein (48:29)

A rumor of one.

Dan Patrick (48:30)

Well, it could be Creed. Bucky. No, we won't be coming back to Notre Dame for that. No appeal on the doctor today. Do you realize I. I played golf with Scott Stapp, the lead singer of Creed, and his son Jagger was just born. I remember his wife or girlfriend was bringing him onto the golf course and I don't know how Jagger's got to be 26, 27 years of age. I'm guessing maybe older than that, but he named his son Jagger. Ah. Do we feel a little smarter today than we did yesterday after we got the analytics update?

Caller (49:16)

Oh.

Sam Schwartzstein (49:19)

No. I feel like I understand what Sam was talking about.

Reggie Miller (49:23)

Ish.

Dan Patrick (49:23)

Okay.

Reggie Miller (49:24)

Maybe we have more of an appreciation for everything.

Dan Patrick (49:26)

Okay, all right. That's fine. Fine. We have the Mike McCarthy game. The first cliche that is uttered, that's in two hours from now. So we'll be monitoring that and obviously a focal point for the show tomorrow. I've never looked forward to a Mike.

Reggie Miller (49:42)

McCarthy press conference more than I am.

Dan Patrick (49:44)

Today, by the way, on this date. In 1970, the Steelers selected Terry Bradshaw with the first overall selection in the NFL draft. I was watching an NFL draft where Pete Roselle is on the podium and he lights up a cigarette.

Joel and Matt (How To Money) (50:01)

Old school.

Dan Patrick (50:02)

Yes. He's like, with the number one pick. I'm like, what's going on here? Firing up a heater. Todd, what'd you learn today?

Sam Schwartzstein (50:15)

Cowboys fan Robin in San Antonio would love to see McCarthy win a Super bowl with the Steelers. Just to stick it to Jerry Jones.

Dan Patrick (50:20)

Satan, would you learn the analytics was right, Marvin.

Sam Schwartzstein (50:24)

Bucky doesn't know Paul, we're becoming smart guys.

Dan Patrick (50:29)

Thanks for the phone calls, emails, tweets, the all around support for Fritzie Seaton, Marv, Paulie, yours truly. Have a great Tuesday, everybody.

Joel and Matt (How To Money) (50:35)

Hey, it's Joel and Matt from how to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get get your finances in shape, we've got your back prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah. Each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Podcast Narrator (51:07)

What if mind control is real?

Sam Schwartzstein (51:08)

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

Podcast Narrator (51:11)

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

Sam Schwartzstein (51:15)

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

Podcast Narrator (51:19)

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

Sam Schwartzstein (51:22)

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

Podcast Narrator (51:25)

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games. A new podcast exploring nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming, is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam, or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nav Green (51:46)

This show contains information subject to but not limited to, personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? It's your boy, Nab Green from the Broken Play Podcast. Look, it's the end of the season. The playoffs are here. Guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcast with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. The Chief. It's time to rebuild. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Podcast Narrator (52:18)

On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.

Caller (52:25)

Hey, if they'll kill a cop and.

Dan Patrick (52:26)

Bury him, what are they gonna do to me?

Podcast Narrator (52:28)

What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.