Our 2025 Catcher Tier List (with Jolly Olive)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Patrick Show – "Our 2025 Catcher Tier List (with Jolly Olive)"

Release Date: February 5, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Dan Patrick Podcast Network
Episode Title: Our 2025 Catcher Tier List (with Jolly Olive)

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan Patrick Show, hosts Justin Penick, Bobby Bones, and Maurice Jones-Drew delve into the intricacies of baseball's catcher position, collaboratively creating a comprehensive tier list for the year 2025. Joined by guest catchers Jolly Olive and Big Baby David Mendelson, the discussion revolves around evaluating current catchers, analyzing their performances, potential, and placing them into distinct tiers based on their skills and contributions.

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Tier List Overview

Justin Penick initiates the segment at [02:00], explaining the purpose of the tier list:

"Today we are doing the Backstops Catchers with my catcher Jolly Olive and my catcher's catcher Big Baby David Mendelson as we break them up, rank them and split them up in Wake and Jake fashion."
— [02:00]

The hosts emphasize the complexity of evaluating catchers, noting the balance between offensive prowess and defensive reliability. They aim to categorize catchers into six columns this year, expanding from previous iterations to accommodate emerging talents and fluctuating performances.

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Top Tier Catchers

1. William Contreras

Bobby Bones asserts Contreras's dominance in the catcher role:

"No one is better than William Contreras at playing catcher right now."
— [07:22]

Contreras is lauded for his offensive achievements, including a 23 home run season and a 129 OPS+, which positioned him fifth in MVP voting. At 27 years old, Contreras is seen as a cornerstone for the Brewers' lineup, with expectations of continued growth.

2. Cal Raleigh

Justin Penick praises Raleigh's extraordinary performance:

"Cal Raleigh, what he has done behind the plate, as a switch hitter, and then five WAR, 34 homers last year is nothing short of remarkable for a catcher."
— [08:33]

Raleigh's ability to hit over 30 home runs consecutively places him in elite company, reminiscent of legends like Ken Griffey Jr. His contributions both offensively and defensively make him a pivotal player for the Seattle Mariners.

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Second Tier Catchers

1. Adley Rutschman

Justin Penick discusses Rutschman's potential resurgence:

"I actually expect Adley to find his way atop the leaderboard coming into next season."
— [17:11]

Despite a challenging previous season marked by increased strikeouts and decreased walk rates, Rutschman's foundational skills and young age suggest a strong comeback and elevated performance.

2. Yener Diaz

Bobby Bones highlights Diaz's consistent offensive output:

"Catchers that can slug like Yener are few and far between, and he's among the best right now."
— [18:19]

With back-to-back three WAR seasons and impressive OPS+, Diaz is a key asset for the Astros. His role in the middle of the lineup and potential to ascend further solidify his position in the second tier.

3. Will Smith

Bobby Bones underscores Smith's reliability:

"Will Smith is such a consistent catcher defensively and never below league average offensively. He could suddenly have that elite season we're waiting for."
— [21:06]

Smith's defensive prowess and steady offensive contributions make him a valuable player, with the potential to elevate his status if he breaks out offensively.

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Middle Tier Catchers

1. JT Rimuto and Salvador Perez

Justin Penick and Bobby Bones pair Rimuto and Perez, recognizing their consistent performances but acknowledging areas for improvement.

"JT Rimuto's contract and consistent offensive output make him a strong contender, while Salvador Perez's defensive metrics keep him in the conversation."
— [23:40]

Both players are viewed as reliable, with Perez's framing skills and Rimuto's hitting making them indispensable to their respective teams.

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Hope or Nope

This new tier captures catchers who have shown potential but are on the brink of either solidifying their status or regressing.

1. Patrick Bailey

Justin Penick expresses cautious optimism about Bailey:

"Patrick Bailey has the defensive skills to be one of the best, but his offensive inconsistency keeps him in Hope or Nope."
— [42:05]

Bailey's exceptional defense is overshadowed by his fluctuating hitting statistics. The hosts discuss whether his potential to improve offensively can elevate him out of this tier.

2. Joey Bart and Ryan Jeffers

Bobby Bones and Maurice Jones-Drew evaluate Bart and Jeffers as emerging talents:

"Joey Bart has shown glimpses of success but needs consistency, while Ryan Jeffers has had solid performances but faces questions about long-term reliability."
— [60:20]

Their abilities to perform under pressure and contribute consistently will determine their future placements.

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Bottom Tier Catchers

1. Austin Hedges and Elias Diaz

Justin Penick categorizes Diaz at the bottom due to his inconsistent performance:

"Elias Diaz's career OPS and recent performance place him at the bottom, but his youth offers hope for improvement."
— [64:47]

Hedges faces similar scrutiny, with concerns about his defensive limitations and offensive output:

"Austin Hedges is struggling defensively and his offensive numbers are just not meeting expectations, landing him in the bottom tier."
— [65:06]

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Debates and Key Points

Throughout the episode, the hosts engage in lively debates over certain players’ placements:

• Adley Rutschman's Potential vs. Current Performance: While Rutschman faced challenges last season, his foundational skills and potential for growth argue for his higher placement.

• Patrick Bailey’s Offensive Inconsistency: The team grapples with Bailey's elite defensive capabilities versus his fluctuating offensive performance, debating whether he should remain in "Hope or Nope" or be elevated based on future improvements.

• Jonah Heim vs. Ryan Jeffers: A nuanced discussion arises regarding Heim's last season's underperformance compared to Jeffers' solid contributions, questioning tendencies to favor Heim due to name recognition over Jeffers' reliability.

"Sometimes, catchers get Twitter fights because fans are invested in their favorites, but we need to maintain objectivity in our tier list."
— [70:24]

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Conclusions

By the end of the episode, the hosts finalize their 2025 Catcher Tier List, categorizing players based on a combination of past performance, potential for growth, and current season projections. They acknowledge the fluid nature of player performance and the impact of external factors like injuries.

Summary of Tiers:

• Top Tier:

  • William Contreras
  • Cal Raleigh

• Second Tier:

  • Adley Rutschman
  • Yener Diaz
  • Will Smith

• Middle Tier:

  • JT Rimuto
  • Salvador Perez

• Hope or Nope:

  • Patrick Bailey
  • Joey Bart
  • Ryan Jeffers

• Bottom Tier:

  • Austin Hedges
  • Elias Diaz

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to engage with their tier list, providing feedback and participating in the ongoing conversation about catcher performances in baseball.

"Enjoy the catcher tier list. What did you like? What did you hate? Please comment below."
— [72:35]

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Notable Quotes

• Bobby Bones on William Contreras:

  "No one is better than William Contreras at playing catcher right now."
  — [07:22]

• Justin Penick on Cal Raleigh:

  "Cal Raleigh, what he has done behind the plate, as a switch hitter, and then five WAR, 34 homers last year is nothing short of remarkable for a catcher."
  — [08:33]

• Justin Penick on Adley Rutschman:

  "I actually expect Adley to find his way atop the leaderboard coming into next season."
  — [17:11]

• Bobby Bones on Will Smith:

  "Will Smith is such a consistent catcher defensively and never below league average offensively. He could suddenly have that elite season we're waiting for."
  — [21:06]

• Justin Penick on Patrick Bailey:

  "Patrick Bailey has the defensive skills to be one of the best, but his offensive inconsistency keeps him in Hope or Nope."
  — [42:05]

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Final Thoughts

This episode provides an insightful analysis of the catcher position in baseball, balancing statistical evaluation with experiential insights from seasoned hosts. The tier list serves as a tool for fans to gauge player performances and anticipate future developments in the 2025 season.

Listeners are encouraged to join the conversation, share their opinions, and participate in shaping the ongoing discourse around baseball's elite catching talents.

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Note: Timestamps correspond to the provided transcript and are approximate due to the formatting of the source material.

Transcript

[Bobby Bones]

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[Justin Penick]

37% of filers qualify.

[Bobby Bones]

Simple Form 1040 returns only.

[Justin Penick]

See if you [e-mail] free Hmm, I can file for free now.

[Bobby Bones]

This is Taxes File for free with TurboTax Free Edition and get your maximum refund. No schedules except for earned income tax credit, child tax credit and student loan interest. See if you qualify. [e-mail] free hey, it's Bobby Bones.

[Matt Castle]

Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirrorball trophy from Dancing with the Star. So where else you gonna find a show with that much athleticism and football insight. We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Rose]

What's up everyone? It's Justin Penick from John Boy Media, the host of the Football Today podcast with Bobby Skinner and Chris Rose. We roll three times a week on Mondays, on Wednesdays, on Fridays, breaking down everything you need to know about the NFL. We're gearing up for the NFL playoffs. I hope you can join us. Join in with us three times a week. Listen to Football Today on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and you will be glad you did.

[Justin Penick]

Hello and welcome to Wake and Jake Tier List Season. Today we are doing the Backstops Catchers with my catcher Jolly Olive and my catcher's catcher Big Baby David Mendelson as we break them up, rank them and split them up in Wake and Jake fashion. We took a while pregaming this one because the catcher position it. I don't know. I'm Interested to see where we land on a lot of guys. Obviously, that's the whole game. But it felt like to me that catchers were in, I don't know, like Adley was going to take over the crown. And it. It felt like there was a couple mainstays that had things unlocked that we had some weird years out of. Sean Murphy last year. JT Real Mudo, who held the crown for a while. He's. Me and him are wrestling Father Time every day now. Will Smith, always the bridesmaid, never the bride. And there's a ton of young guys that when you actually click into their page, you're like, wait, what do I do? What do I do with Joey Bart? We'll get into all of that and more. How you doing, Joe?

[Bobby Bones]

Chris Rose. I'm good. I am. Maurice Jones. Drew. We're in a little bit of a catcher's golden age right now. We kind of said that in the shortstop tier list and then we were doing some mock ups of our list today. And there's a lot of good, right? There's a lot of great. So it's gonna get kind of messy in the middle, kind of hairy in the middle. I think we know the top and the bottom, like any good relationship. And I'm excited to get started.

[Justin Penick]

Okay, Cancel Horny Dolly 2025. This is crazy.

[Bobby Bones]

Just healthy commentary.

[Justin Penick]

This is crazy.

[Bobby Bones]

You should know if you don't talk to your partner.

[Justin Penick]

We need to know where we're going to know where we're from. We have our tiers for this year and maybe that's the tease I'll actually start with. We've started with six columns rows this time. Thank you. Ancient Rome terminology, past math. I think we opened up with nine last time, and I like to expand as we find different tiers that present themselves. I think we started with too many tiers, although the short sub tier worked out great. Make sure you go like that. Subscribe. And all the fun stuff we currently have for the catchers at the top, it's baby bro in the butt. Daisy hunting for those talking baseball people. Hunting the Silver Daisy award. Avril Lavigne, 2002. It's complicated, but, God, it's a beautiful thing. Hope or nope, Splitting up. Avril Lavigne, 2025. It's complicated and it's a little. Not as exciting maybe as it was in 2002. And our bottom column, which I hope sticks for the bottom of the catcher column forever in a nice way. Although I think this guy would be fine with it. It's Austin Hedges. It's Austin Hedges who will probably be the first person on the board. Last year we ended up having 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 tiers. S tier. So we obliged for the kids at the top last year where there were four names. I don't think you'll see that this year. Starting Twitter fights for you was the next column. Set it and forget it. Let's find the ceiling for a lot of these young, handsome catchers. Is that MF for real? Shout out to that lady, Tiffany Gomes.

[Bobby Bones]

Still kind of, you know her name.

[Justin Penick]

Fine. Though. Daydream about Gary Sanchez was a column. I think. Was Gary a free agent at the time that we did it? We were. Those teams were all hoping to get some Gary in that last column is give us this one thing kind of our way to label the defensive guys or maybe they're out there for something else. Austin Hedges was also down there. Christian Vasquez, Maldonado. I guess we'll update you throughout for our guys that moved up or down the board from last year. I'm trying to see who is. Who's gone. We're not doing a lot of the platoon business. We. We picked one or the other. There's a couple teams, you know, Padres fans. If you're looking for Elias Diaz, we have Campusano. Probably would have ended up in the same spot. And I'm sure there's one or two more outliers. Wilson Contreras is off the board.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I didn't even notice that. But yeah, he's not their catcher and.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

They have space this year.

[Bobby Bones]

They have a pretty good catch that we'll talk about.

[Justin Penick]

I'm trying to see who else jumped off the board. Who was the Pirates catcher last year? Is that Hank Davis? Henry Davis. I call him Hank.

[Bobby Bones]

You call him. See their left field.

[Justin Penick]

I don't think Christian Vasquez will make the list. Maldonado will find his way there mid year. Let's get into it with this year's list. And as you know, we like to hop around with our tier list. I do think the top has separated themselves this year and I. I think it deserves to be started with that baby bro in the butt. If you haven't cranked the numbers on that, there was two people that stood out. Jolly, I've been talking for a little bit. I'll. I'll let you go for it.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. We have a returning member to the top tier and we have a new member to the top tier. And I think it's good to start with the Alum. The guy that I said on my pedestal last year was the best catcher in baseball before the season. He went out there, he did it again. No one is better than William Contreras at playing catcher right now. I still remember that initial Braves trade where they got Sean Murphy from the A's and kind of just quietly the brewers swept in and stole Contreras. I think a lot of people thought, man, Braves did it again. I thought that too. It turns out the best catcher in that deal is William Contreras pretty definitively because he got even better last season. Went from a four war catcher to a five war catcher. 23 home runs, a 129 OPS plus, fifth in MVP voting.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah, fifth.

[Bobby Bones]

Like that's nothing to scoff at. And there's no reason to think he won't get better because he turns 27 this year. He's going to be the brewers best hitter for a long while. They have got a special, special piece in him. He is the baby bro of the equation. We still need to talk about the butt though.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah. And if you know, you know, Big Cal Rally, big dumper out in the Pacific Northwest, it's pretty cool. When he was like breaking home run records of Seattle Mariners history in the past couple seasons is like, you know, the only guys with 30 homer season back to back is Cal riley, Ken Griffey Jr. And Frog McGillicuddy. Although they don't have a ton of history and that's part of the reason Cal was in that list. Um, but also I'm, I've decided I'm becoming a Seattle truther. I cannot believe they and Jorge Polanco agreed to do it again.

[Bobby Bones]

I can't believe that either.

[Justin Penick]

I'm. Let's not talk about that right now. But Cal Rally, what he has done A behind the plate, B as a switch hitter and then five WAR, 34.

[Bobby Bones]

Homers last year, a hundred RBI, is.

[Justin Penick]

A catcher coming off of a 30 homer season, which was a 27 homer season the year previous. So the homers have jumped up the past three seasons. He will be 28 last year. Set it and forget it. Also got MVP votes, also got a gold glove. So what are you looking for? And man, if this guy played in Cincinnati, if this guy played in Citizens Bank, I think we're talking about 40 Homer Cal rally seasons which as a catcher, as a switch hitting catcher doesn't exist. So I, I think he clearly ended up at the top of the board last year. And yeah, I think the other names we're going to talk about that. You know, Charlie, I, I think the people are going to be interested to see where you're at with Sean Murphy. I think people are interested to see where everyone's at with Adley and a couple of these other big catching names after last season. I don't think anyone. No one has like the slight injury excuse or no one really has the. I don't think anyone can come to the table and really debate these two right now.

[Bobby Bones]

Complete package.

[Justin Penick]

Like, you know what I'm saying? Like some, some of the next names we're going to talk about. I don't think anyone could come up and make us even do like a head tilt.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Like some of these other guys, their reputation precedes them and that's why we give them the benefit of the doubt. Some of these guys have been good, not great. These two have been great for multiple years. Now. They're both young, so there's reason to suspect they'll get better. So I, I see no reason to put them anywhere else other than the tippy top of this list. I got two things on Cal Rally before we move on. One I think it's crazy to think about and I want, I don't want to do a whole Mariners thing.

[Justin Penick]

Sure.

[Bobby Bones]

There's a compelling argument to be made that they have the best center fielder and best catcher in baseball and yet for some reason they can't hit. Which is wild to me. Also to you at home. Jake, why don't you do it too? Why don't you look at the pronunciation section of Cal Rally's baseball reference page really quick.

[Justin Penick]

Okay. Just take a peek already there.

[Bobby Bones]

Let me know what it says.

[Justin Penick]

Wow, that's insane. Rhymes with jolly.

[Bobby Bones]

Really makes you think.

[Justin Penick]

How is that? You know what? Cal Raleigh, you can live angry and question that. Or you just say that's neat. No reason to do that for the name Cal Raleigh.

[Bobby Bones]

Similar profile. I was a catcher when I played. I don't know. Sometimes things just work out.

[Justin Penick]

Cal Raleigh with another solid season, should pass Trevor Plouffe on the all time home run list. I watched the Trevor Plouffe homer video this morning.

[Bobby Bones]

It was great.

[Justin Penick]

I loved it a lot.

[Bobby Bones]

Great idea by Manny.

[Justin Penick]

Just assumed it would be ass, but he did pretty good.

[Bobby Bones]

I got 50. No, I got 49. Mike Cole beat me. He got 51.

[Justin Penick]

Jesus.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, right. Got some names on that list.

[Justin Penick]

Capuano. So baby bro in the butter at the top. They deserve their flowers. They've received their flowers. They should receive more flowers.

[Bobby Bones]

AL nl, similar to shortstop, just an easy top Tier.

[Justin Penick]

I always get mad. I always get mad.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, you live mad.

[Justin Penick]

The, the Contreras bros are so good. It's messed up and like it's kind of not talked about.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Like it's a little bit bad US society that if these were two brothers from Des Moines, I think we would talk about it a little more. They're so good. Like they're go look at their hitting stats.

[Bobby Bones]

You can make an argument that they.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Have in the same division.

[Bobby Bones]

They've. They've maybe surpassed the Molinas.

[Justin Penick]

They're all star brother catchers because the.

[Bobby Bones]

Molinas never hit like that. Yachty did.

[Justin Penick]

A little third brother that was kind of bad would actually help.

[Bobby Bones]

I would need that real like just a third backup catcher who played for like eight years.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I want to say that there is a third.

[Justin Penick]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Just one.

[Justin Penick]

There's some baseball family that has another on the way that we were like oh shoot, the Cheerios. Got a couple. Anyways, congrats to William Contreras and Cal rally at the top of the leaderboard. No third one day. Let's. Let's chip away down because I actually think this second tier is easier than the pile of beef we're running into eventually. Yeah. We have it listed as daisy hunting. Like I said, if you're familiar with our talking baseball, you know our all JM team kind of how ball players are really measured. We give out pedals. If you get it for the whole year you get to fill out that daisy.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Best player at each in each league.

[Justin Penick]

For the season that these guys, I think a couple of them like Jolly laid out are going to have different expectations. But I think there's a. There's a few clear cut like I, I'll get in front of this as the Yankee guy. Adley Rushman. I think it was a weird year. I don't know if it was a switch hitter losing his swing from one side of the plate for a little bit. I don't know if there was an injury. I, I think there was that. Hey, maybe it was the league finding something else. I don't think so. I still think Adley Rushman is really good. I think Baltimore is kind of. The more I think about it, I think Baltimore is prime for a big bounce back year with Gunner being a bonafide star with Adley bouncing back with they have so much good use that things will click and Bautista in the bullpen. I just think that's massive. But that's for another time that Adley Rushman already gets judged on a different scale and hey, as I took shots fired at everyone for not giving the Contreras family proper love, Adley, the expectations are very different because he got so much love that he had a three and a half war season. And everyone's like, Adley Rushman. I don't know anymore. So I. Adley deserves to be on this tier. And I actually, if I'm being honest, I expect him to be top tier coming into next season. But for a lot of young baseball players, sometimes ish happens. And I don't know if Adley's on that bus. I doubt it, but he could be. It was a weird year last year.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I, I agree with a lot of the things he said and I think Adley's scale is different. One, because he was the top pick. If he doesn't go, it's really hard for him. What did you say?

[Justin Penick]

Tackled McCaffrey. Oh, kickoff return. Come on.

[Bobby Bones]

Let me know if you've seen that clip once or twice or a thousand times on social media with him. It's. It's an unfair scale because really, if he doesn't go, it's hard for the Orioles to go. He is such a centerpiece of the core of that team. The thing that worries me about Adley is that strikeouts went up last year, walk rate went way down, which is kind of a scary thing, especially for a switch hitter when you're trying to balance a lot. But I do think that, you know, the five WAR caliber rookie player that we saw two years ago is definitely still in there. I think he's, he's earned the benefit of the doubt in that regard. And it's just weird because I think by now, like you kind of alluded to at the beginning of the show, we all kind of expected Adley to just take the crown and become the best catcher in baseball, which is still a thing that can happen. He's going to be younger than William Contreras was last year, this year. So I think he's still got that edge to him. I think the Orioles need him to be that guy and I still think he can with the other two that I kind of have alongside him. They had better years last year, but their resumes or I guess their reputation in my mind aren't as like, you know, profound as Adley, the former number one overall pick, the face of the Orioles. These guys aren't really the faces of their teams, but they are among the best catchers in the league.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah. And I again, if you're looking to kill 50 minutes at work, which you are Listening to Wake and Jake probably chew through Adley's numbers from last year. I mean the biggest one verse righties a.631 ops. He still mauled lefties 9.02. So again, is that injury, is that the pitchers finding something out is that the ball started rolling and the baseball gods couldn't fix it. And it's, you know, the other funny thing is you can't like point at the crazy Camden dimensions last year or anything because he actually did it as the righty. So I don't know. I expect Adley to bounce back. The year previous against right handed pitching, I think he was a.778 OPS. Even if he lands in the middle there and he still mauls righties, he would deserve top tier. So. And I, I think there is more than that. So I'm expecting Adley to find his way atop the leaderboard, I guess on the second tier of catchers. I guess you have a guy that you think is obvious and I think he is too. But I, I want to hear you say it.

[Bobby Bones]

I love Yner Diaz. Yeah, I love Yanner Diaz. He was the same guy the past two years and that's what's kind of big for me. Like back to back years being a three war guy, back to back years being a 120 OPS plus guy. You can point at strikeouts and walks with him too. And you can get kind of concerned because he doesn't.

[Justin Penick]

I didn't know the walks were like this.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, it's, it's low. It's not. He's not an on base guy. But I just think catchers that can slug like that are few and far between and Yiner is among the best right now. And I know it's a little unfair to some of the older guys that have been playing, but the youth factor always kind of does it for me. Like if you're doing this at 25, I'm excited to see what you do at 28. You know what I mean? Like, I'm excited for your next three years. Yeah, Yer is going to be really important to the Astros this year too. Like that should be said as well. We're going to learn a lot about him. Last year is a different lineup than this year. This year Yer's hitting fifth, maybe fourth in that lineup. They're one injury away from him being the three hitter or the four hitter in that lineup. Whereas last year they had Kyle Tucker, they had Alex Bregman, they might not have either of those guys this year. So will Yiner take a Step up and become even better. Will he stay the same? Will he shrink in that spotlight? I don't know, but I do. What I do know is that he's been really consistent the past few years and his type of production is not exactly common among MLB catchers right now. So I have him in the second tier.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah, I, I think there's some people that might be doing a slight head till because some of the stats are down. It was an.846 OPS, a.766 last year, but offense was down around baseball, so really it was only a 10 point ops plus jump. And I think you mentioned the same war and it's 104 games to 148 games, which you can spin that both ways. For me, being a catcher and playing a lot and also having DH days and other stuff, it's massive for the Astros. And this is still productive, but this is still very productive, I guess. I'm interested to see. And I would bank on Yiner Diaz because he's going to be 26. He got his full full season in and I would expect things to tick up. It will be interesting. If things don't and you have the lack of walks and you have three years where you can look at the numbers and be like, wait, then you're trending down. It will become interesting. If anything, I, I think a lot of people should be buying Yiner stock. I wouldn't be surprised if those homers take a jump this year and everything kind of does. God, I didn't realize he's going to be 26. That's. That's pretty wild. Yeah, he's. It's that tricky part of the year where seemingly a ton of people are underrated, but Einer Diaz I do think hits that. Who deserves to be on that line with them?

[Bobby Bones]

Will Smith for sure. Just looking at his page, it's funny to think we just said Yanu is going to be 26 this year. Will Smith's first three war season was at age 26. So I'm saying, you know, like 2020 always gets a little weird because he probably would have played the full year and been great that year. But Will Smith, I think it's funny like the idea for this tier was birthed from him never getting that daisy pedal. He's never gotten a pedal. So was that the thing?

[Justin Penick]

Might have to double check. But yeah, it's. There's always just someone just been a horrible trend of like Sean Murphy was Nails Contreras had an amazing first half.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Like it Feels like he's always been like just behind and you gotta feel.

[Bobby Bones]

Bad for the Dodgers that they don't have the best player at a position. Yeah, that's tough.

[Justin Penick]

Like, thank you.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Like people aren't saying that. No. Will Smith is like, he would be the best player on so many teams. Like a catcher that's.

[Justin Penick]

It's in the middle of that lineup.

[Bobby Bones]

It's in the middle of the lineup and like is of hall of Famers hell. Like there's, you know, future Cooperstown bound dudes and there's Will Smith backing them up and protecting them. And he does a fantastic job doing it. Like he's been that dude forever. He's never been below league average offensively at any point in his career. We know what he brings defensively. They got him on that sick contract too. Like that never gets talked about. Like the fact. What's he getting paid? He's getting paid 16 mil on average a year. And then less down the line. It's front loaded. He's like as consistent as can be. I think the thing that stinks for him is that there's. Yeah, like you said, there's always been one guy in the NL that's just been a little bit better.

[Justin Penick]

But.

[Bobby Bones]

But as soon, if it happens at any point of one of those guys just falling off a little bit, he will become the best because he is the same dude every year. He is that great catcher. So he's just slightly below. But who knows? Maybe Will Smith just breaks out and has that elite season that we've been waiting for.

[Justin Penick]

62 games hitting cleanup for the Los Angeles, the World Series, Los Angeles Dodgers last year, 28 games hitting second. And actually it was a weird year for him last year. He had a significant gap in the summer where I don't know if the swing was off again. I don't know if he was hurt. Baseball happens that. It's funny to see that his numbers landed where they did because he was in a funk for a while that I, I would bet on Will Smith having a better year than last year. And maybe that should be horrifying for everyone. Does anyone else deserve to be with these guys? Like, I'm. I'm looking at Big Salvi, I'm looking at real muto. I'm looking at Logan. Oh, Hoppy. I mean there's a lot of young catchers that get interesting, I guess. Do any of them deserve to be with these guys? The expectation with these guys.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm having a tough time with JT because we talked about A little bit before, but like the way Phillies fans talked about him and like the injuries and stuff, you'd think that he like had a really down year last year. He's. And he's entering the ending of his contract in that too. But he was still 3 work catcher in 99 games last year. He's still above league average offensively for the 10th year in a row. Like, he's still fast as hell. He was 80th percentile sprint speed. Like yeah, maybe he does deserve to be in that second tier. I think I. It's kind of just like the mode of we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop and it hasn't happened yet. So does JT deserve to be in that second tier? I could, I could be talked into it if you want to talk me into it.

[Justin Penick]

I think I want to start with him there.

[Bobby Bones]

I, I'm cool with that.

[Justin Penick]

I mean, I can't believe how good his stats are. For 99 games he was a 3 war player again. Does he get judged on a different scale at this point? Kind of. Do I think he has like, do I think he has another summer in him? Absolutely not. Not even close to not to. So I think I want to start with him there and I want to see what it looks like and feels like because I guess the other lingering question for me and maybe there just needs to be an old like a legends category is big Salvi because I, I realized that some of the metrics don't grade him out defensively. Well, he gets to DH and play first base a lot because they have Freddy for mean shout out to war in like 90 games for Frederick. The other Fred easy with that. That. I don't know. Would it just be safer to have like the old, old dogs line below this and have Salvi and real Muto still got it.

[Bobby Bones]

I was, I was thinking like fun hall of Fame conversation because the, the bar for. It's kind of similar to closers where like the bar for catchers is a little bit lower.

[Justin Penick]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Than some of the other positions just because of how hard it is and like unique it is like the R.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Capable of putting in.

[Bobby Bones]

Like they won't become the surefire thing that like was Joe Maurer, for example, who's like a 55 war catcher, but they're creeping up on 40 and like they're still playing well. But I think that we expect guys like Adley, Will Smith and Yiner to be better next year because they are younger, because they play the position a little bit better. But they don't deserve to be on a lower like 4th mid level tier because they're still great players. Like they can still provide you a lot in your day to day lineup.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

You can rely on a certain amount.

[Bobby Bones]

From Salvi played 90 games the Catchers catcher last year I thought he played like 40 or something. I thought they were really trying to ease him back but like no, he's still a catcher.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

And so much of why he isn't catching 100 games he's like well they just have this for mean kid protect him pretty good.

[Bobby Bones]

So I, I'm, I'm down for like.

[Justin Penick]

I think we just made a new column.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

And Jolly you being a wordsmith I think accidentally fell into something here. I think below daisy hunting should be chasing 40.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Age and war.

[Bobby Bones]

I like that a lot. Chasing 40 because if they get over.

[Justin Penick]

40 career war for the catcher position. I do think it's a real fun.

[Bobby Bones]

Conversation if they hit it on a weak ballot or something and like you know there's 10 votes to spread around.

[Justin Penick]

Salvador. Salvador Perez had a 119 OPS plus last year.

[Bobby Bones]

JT JT Romuto's contract with the Phillies is like one of the best in baseball in the past 10 years.

[Justin Penick]

And I though again the beauty with these tier list. It's. What are you talking about? Are you talking about the season? Are you talking about like for one game? I think for one game if you had a gun to your head, why is that still the thing? For one the scenario for one game if you have to pick. If you have to pick Salvi or JT versus Will Smith. Yer. Depending what Adley's out there. It's an interesting, it's an interesting conversation. Like it kind of depends on the rest of the team.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Like if I need Big Salvi's presence in that lineup, I don't know if I've got everything else on my team. Would I rather just have JT real Mudo for a day? It's an interesting convo. Maybe not Will Smith. Maybe he's getting disrespected a little bit here. But I like the chase and 40.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I think I do too.

[Justin Penick]

Category. Okay, so that just banged out couple studs here, is there? Sean Murphy's gonna be a weird one for me. I'm just gonna come out and say that because I think you and I are on different wavelengths with him. Like I guess of any of these young guys. Oh, Hoppy Patrick Bailey racks up war. I don't know what his hitting profile truly is. Austin. Well I, it doesn't seem like anyone else is screaming at us.

[Bobby Bones]

So I think the, the top of this tier list is solidified in my opinion. There's a lot of great like conversations about potential with some of the other guys we're going to talk about, but none of them have done anybody's jumping.

[Justin Penick]

Into these rows whether it's full season.

[Bobby Bones]

Or it's, you know, they just haven't been able to do consistently. Like none of them breach that barrier of Salvi and jt. They feel like the, they feel like the kind of gateway that you have to pass through to become an elite great catcher of the game. Sean Murphy was there in my opinion and it was easy, like it was an easy discussion. But last year, to put it bluntly, was really bad. Like he I think held the Braves back from potentially winning the division last year because he is a very important piece of that team. He is their Will Smith. He is their consistent great defensively, can hit in the middle of the lineup and protect your stars kind of catcher. He was that guy for five years and then last year he took a massive step back. There was injuries, he had an oblique injury early in the year. That's a hard thing to one of.

[Justin Penick]

The worst hitting injuries.

[Bobby Bones]

Right. And he got it in April. Like that affects your whole year. And I fully understand that. But I don't think that you can just say well he was injured, he's going to be the same guy next year because he doesn't have the same age factor. He's going to be 30 next year. And for catchers that can get a little scary. Not everybody is J.T. rymuto or Salvador Perez. He's only been a 20 homer catcher once in his career. But I do think with his reputation you can't put him just next to a bunch of the younger guys of like that we think are going to be potentially good to great and just say yep, that's all equal because Sean Murphy has been doing it for a while. So I think that it is complicated in a good way, Jake, hence the name of our tier because yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sean Murphy comes out next year and is the same guy that he was in the two years prior. But I also wouldn't be shocked if this injury hangover kind of leaks into next year and maybe he just takes a step back into becoming more of a league average offensive catcher and that would be totally fine too.

[Justin Penick]

Oh, Mets fan job.

[Bobby Bones]

What do you mean?

[Justin Penick]

Do you know Sean Murphy before last year was a 118. Ops plus.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't even know what that means.

[Justin Penick]

He's got a Gold Glove. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

What's his batting average?250. Yeah. Okay.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

That boy. Nice enjoyer.

[Justin Penick]

I.

[Bobby Bones]

Talk to me.

[Justin Penick]

Sean Murphy's already on the board there. Let's leave him. I. I don't have proper thoughts with Sean Murphy yet because I need to circle up on who will be joining him on that row. I do think this is the part of the program where we should just get rid of. Trim the fat.

[Bobby Bones]

Interesting.

[Justin Penick]

I just want to get the Austin Hedges.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Road done with.

[Bobby Bones]

That's fine.

[Justin Penick]

Because I do think these final three rows are the conversation. So I don't want to end the episode with being like Corey Lee. So with that Corey Lee from the White Sox. Hey, former top prospect. Maybe it clicks.

[Bobby Bones]

White Sox Itis too. Like, maybe a lot of white. So, yeah, like, you know, it's hard to put your best production up there.

[Justin Penick]

Amaya from the Cubs. Is he going to be in a different conversation? I don't.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't think so.

[Justin Penick]

My heartstrings. Is he getting hurt that there's another Amaya in the league right now?

[Bobby Bones]

Who's the other Amaya?

[Justin Penick]

There's a Jacob Amaya.

[Bobby Bones]

OTP legend.

[Justin Penick]

Negative war last year.

[Bobby Bones]

Tough. Not what you want.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

GS, just kind of a block God.

[Bobby Bones]

He is a block God. Doesn't really do anything else.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Just blocking.

[Justin Penick]

Amaya had an 82 OPS just in the dirt. That's. That's fine.

[Bobby Bones]

Kybert.

[Justin Penick]

Kyber. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

So my original thing, like, I didn't have this named Austin Hedges. I had this named I wish you were Austin Hedges, because Kybert is not Austin Hedges. This whole thing is that he's very limited defensively and his paycheck is kind of fat because they did the whole early extension thing when everybody was doing that with their young players. I would be open to renaming this year because I don't think all these guys fit that description. Like, that's kind of a disservice to Austin Hedges, who's like, wish you were Hedges, the defensive God of catching in baseball.

[Justin Penick]

Yes. But it's also ignoring that Kiber Ruiz can do some things offensively. Like, it's. It's just a scope of it. Keep it Ruiz for catchers. And, dude, he's still young. He's gonna be 26 this year.

[Bobby Bones]

Right.

[Justin Penick]

He has 42 homers in the show.

[Bobby Bones]

Like, my thing that I get scared with is, like, Dodgers prospects, sure, they get scary.

[Justin Penick]

It does. But I also think just hasn't happened yet enough to.

[Bobby Bones]

He said, do you want to move to clubs?

[Justin Penick]

He had no. He had some horrific defensive numbers that I think he actually addressed last year decently. That okay, maybe he was in the lab and that was his focus all year and that's why the offense fell off that. Could I see a 26 year old that's got some serious MLB experience. Like if he hits a little above his career numbers next year, you're going to see him on the middle of the board.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

So I, I think I understand. And this company has a lot of heartstrings. Tossing hedges. I think on the bottom for now. On the bottom's fine for keeper Ruiz. So that's rude. Nick Fortes killer. Go look at the offensive profile from last year.

[Bobby Bones]

His numbers against the Mets.

[Justin Penick]

Real quick. Danny Chance. Is that going to be a different conversation? I can leave him for now because sometimes I think he's a different conversation. I know that you might be right. Okay.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

We have a little bit of a skew because he's. He crushes.

[Bobby Bones]

His career numbers against the Mets aren't even that good.

[Justin Penick]

Campusano fell off last year. Had a tough year. Him and Elias Diaz. I don't know. Let's just put him at the bottom and forget it for now.

[Bobby Bones]

Real. I feel like he's get bowled more.

[Justin Penick]

He is. I mean he's a top prospect, but it was bad.

[Bobby Bones]

Well, what's. What's our. What's our. Yeah, it was pretty bad. Our tier above that is supposed to be. It's complicated. Not in a good way. Right.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Like not excited about it.

[Justin Penick]

Yes. But I think there's going to be guys that they can say like, hey, I. If we're ignoring everything except former top prospect ranking, me and Campusano should not be on this line.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay. 131Opio. 50 games.

[Justin Penick]

Let's see.

[Bobby Bones]

We'll see.

[Justin Penick]

Let's see.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's get to the more important conversation.

[Justin Penick]

Does anyone else jump out?

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I feel like if Campusano's down there, that's kind of where Bo Naylor belongs. And I sort of had both of them in my head in that next group before.

[Justin Penick]

They very well could be. They very well. I mean Bo Nailers. Ellen Naylor's last year was tough. 73 ops plus. I mean both are kind of prospects. We know Bo Nailer's brother.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Both still young.

[Bobby Bones]

I think I have them above that bottom tier.

[Justin Penick]

Campusano negative career war.

[Bobby Bones]

Yes.

[Justin Penick]

How about that? I'm gonna take Campusano off the board for now. Is there anyone else that's an automatic bottom row.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't think so.

[Justin Penick]

No good.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't think so.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Okay, we trimmed that fat.

[Justin Penick]

Let's jump up to the good Avril Lavigne. It's 2002.

[Bobby Bones]

2002.

[Justin Penick]

Why'd you have to go and make things so complicated? Yeah, yeah. What was the other, like, hits? Skater boy.

[Bobby Bones]

In 2002, I was obsessed with Thomas the Tank Engine. I was. Our pop culture was different.

[Justin Penick]

Okay, okay, well, Avril Lavigne moved the needle. You know what I'm saying?

[Bobby Bones]

Easy with that.

[Justin Penick]

She's popular.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Justin Penick]

Popular. Heard that. Wicked.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I have a first name I think I'd suggest in here.

[Justin Penick]

Okay.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Tyler Stevenson.

[Justin Penick]

Tyler Stevenson is an interesting case of things and stuff. Not to get too analytical on you. Hey, you want that, you want that prospect part of the resume? He was there. You want a history of hitting at different points. 20, 20, 2021, 2022, he hit 2022, was shortened by injury. 2023, he's back and it was tough. 85 OPS plus. Buzz your girlfriend. Woof. He bounces back. Last year, 138 games, a 112 OPS plus, which has him as a career. 105 OPS plus, 770 OPS. If you took out that one year, I could really butter knife you and give you some nice hitting stats. And I think defensively he profiled well last year. That Tyler Stevenson at age 28 is primed. Former first round pick had his bad baseball lump. He recovered from it. There's a lot of reasons to like him.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, he's. He feels like the kind of guy where every year someone picks him as like, this dude is going to shock people this year. And we've all kind of been waiting for it because he has been good for a long time now. Tyler Stevenson's been a good catcher for five years. And I think that with him it's like, you know what he brings defensively, you know what he can do offensively, that it's like, well, why haven't, why haven't we seen that like full one the full season where it's like, do you remember Tyler Stevenson? 2025. Like, do you remember that? Like with him it's just. Yeah, I don't think he belongs in. In the big beefy hope or Nope tier that we're about to dive into. Because I do think like resume matters for catcher. Like knowing what you're going to get with certain guys does matter to me. And like Tyler Stevenson, I kind of feel like at this point, you know what you can get. If he stays healthy. So I think having. It's weird having him and Sean Murphy on the same line. It's a little weird.

[Justin Penick]

Feels a little uncomfortable.

[Bobby Bones]

But like, when you look at the numbers, it's not that far apart. Like, Sean Murphy's peaks are definitely higher, but his value was a lot lower. And like Tyler Stevenson's just kind of been Steady Eddie for the Reds for five years.

[Justin Penick]

That's where I guess I've been mentally putting together this Avril Lavigne 2002 complicated row. And I think that the company that Sean Murphy is going to keep is very rude to Sean Murphy, where all these other guys are going to have a very similar feeling. Like the name that I have to put up on the board because the comments have already been angry and mentioned him is Patrick Bailey. Cause defensively, I mean, I don't know if there's someone that goes toe to toe with him. That's what the numbers tell you. And the eye test shows the same things. Man. Go again. Killing time at work today. Watch the Patrick Bailey defensive taster reel. It's like it feels like you're unk talking about Benito Santiago or some old defensive catching legend. He's making special throws and special plays that do change and impact a game. And he's had times where he's hit that. I think for what you're looking for from a catcher, I think Patrick Bailey has a conversation, especially with the rest of like Sean Murphy needs to leave our heads for a second. I think for everyone that ends up on this row, I think Patrick Bailey is going to have a conversation. You hate him, though.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. We're going to need BBD input on this one. I. I firmly disagree that he belongs with those other two. I have a. A couple catchers have ahead of him in this regard because they maybe do they do less. Everyone on this list pretty much does less defensively than Patrick Bailey. But offense matters, consistency matters, and Patrick Bailey hasn't demonstrated that yet. I think he's got a little bit of a strikeout problem in 2023 at a K rate near 30%. It got better last year and there's full reason to believe that he can take another step this year. But he does not have the same resume as Stevenson and Murphy in my mind. And there are guys that are as young as him that have played longer and hit way better. Like a guy that I think belongs here. Gabby Moreno. Gabby Moreno brings things to the fence.

[Justin Penick]

I have Gabby on.

[Bobby Bones]

I think Gabby's. Gabby's now had three years of solid hitting. Gabby did it in the playoffs and that matters to me. Whether it matters to you or not, you know, that's teach their own. But three straight years being above league average offensively and not by metrics, not that far behind defensively. Like again, no one on this list does what Patrick Bailey does defensively. Fully acknowledge that. But I think Gabby is. Is way easier to place her than Bailey.

[Justin Penick]

I have Gabby on this line maybe. And maybe that's how this can continue because the company you keep. I have Logan Ohapi on this line.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

That's where I have him.

[Justin Penick]

Head tilt.

[Bobby Bones]

I have. I have him here too. I. It's weird the. His numbers last year didn't land in a place that I thought they would.

[Justin Penick]

Right. Like there's four.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I think when he came back end of the year. Let's check out his delay at the numbers.

[Bobby Bones]

Let's check out his months.

[Justin Penick]

Patrick Bailey split page is a wild look. He had an incredible first half.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, Hoppy had a horrible August. That's what he had a. He hit below 100 in August.

[Justin Penick]

Right. That's what Patrick Bailey has one of those months. So that's just where I want to get ahead of some of that with him.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

That's crazy.

[Bobby Bones]

I haven't. I have him in hope or no. Because you hope that he can hit above league average. Because if he does, he instantly enters the conversation of getting above guys like JT and Salvi Bailey or oh, Hoppy Bailey. Oh, Hoppy. I think we know he can hit defensively. I think he's a little bit more limited than the other guys.

[Justin Penick]

I like what I see.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. I mean, I test that boy. Nice. Sure. You know. Come on. All right. Easy with that. I. Bailey is in hope or nope for me because he has the chance to be the biggest jump on this list when we do it again next year. If we do it again. Comment down below if you. If you like the tier list. But I can't put a dude that's never been above league average offensively any higher than that because, you know, there's plenty of guys you can point to that are great defenders and below league average hitters at the catching position. Bailey is an extreme case because of how gifted he is defensively and he is switch hitting, I think. Right. So he has things that you can get really excited about. Plus he is young, but until I see it, I'm going to be kind of hard on him. I don't know.

[Justin Penick]

Everything's been heard.

[Bobby Bones]

It's an interesting convo. It's what you asked for.

[Justin Penick]

It's interesting and I do have a little bit of Pirates fan. Pirates fans. We'll talk about them in a second. Giants fans getting loud about their guy. That I think there's. There's Giants fans that think Patrick Bailey has a conversation for best catcher in the game.

[Bobby Bones]

And I think that conversation's there if he has that. That full season where he hits.

[Justin Penick]

And I think those people were saying that in Patrick Bailey's first half last year when he was.283, 354, 784 ops. Patrick Bailey doing that. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

He would have a conversation. The problem is in the second half he was 170, 217 on base, a lower slug. 216. He was a.434 OPS for the second half last year. So. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Sometimes numbers don't lie. That I think you're right. It's a hope or nope. That hey, Patrick Bailey show us you can have a.7 15 ops for a full year and the conversation changes. But he kind of hasn't shown us that.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

So again, like he's been the best defender in his time in the big leagues by the metrics and everything.

[Bobby Bones]

Great.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Which is great. Him getting to be a league average or thereabouts hitter would be a big jump. Like he is.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Is a distance away from that On. On the whole, I. I don't think he's ill placed if we left him here. But I'm. I'm not against the slide down if the rest of that tier feels more.

[Justin Penick]

Like I've already moved Pat to hope or. Nope.

[Bobby Bones]

I'm just. One final point. I don't want to dogpile Patrick Bailey. I don't want to. That's not because he's a very exciting player and he's torched my team a couple times. So I get some bias. Sure. Another catcher who is defensively gifted who had a.760 OPS in the first half and then tailed off in the second half is Freddie for Mean, who is relatively the same age, brings similar things to the table. Again, not as gifted defensively, but it's a very similar case in my mind of like if Freddie for mean had a full year offensively and did it the whole year. We talk about him way differently.

[Justin Penick]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

But I think that there's something to just like name value, prospect value, importance to the team that Patrick Bailey gets that edge and gets a little bit more conversation there. Whereas the case in 2024 was kind of similar. Great first half, lesser second half. So for Bailey, as soon as we get that full Year, I'll eat some crow for sure for being too low on him, but I'm a little low on Patrick Bailey.

[Justin Penick]

I think it's fair. I think it's fair. I. I love the defense. I think the position should probably be judged a little differently. But after seeing that second half, I mean, that's, you know, this is kind of the. Okay, Pirates fans, I told you to turn your ears on them. Sorry. Because this isn't what I expected.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, boy.

[Justin Penick]

Patrick Bailey has a little key Brian Hayes vibes right now. Everyone was like, oh, dude, keep. Brian's the future, he's the best. Blah, blah. And it's like, well, when you look at those offensive stats, keep run kind of hurt me. There's a lot of. There's a lot more negative than positive that, hey, plain path, give us that first half for a whole year and it changes the whole conversation. But you haven't done that.

[Bobby Bones]

He. Brian had the full year too, in 23. Four and a half, four player, kind of above league average. OPA. Like, that's all I need from Patrick Bailey, though. That's right.

[Justin Penick]

Right. That's just. And that's why he. Brian got love.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

It was just tricky with other certain basemen.

[Bobby Bones]

They don't need him to be a great hitter. They just need him to be, you know, a bat in the lineup. That's it.

[Justin Penick]

Is there anyone. I'm trying to think of this as an honest. Almost like taking a step back from stats for a second. I'm. I'm building a video game team and it's like, okay, Tyler Stevenson. Sure. I'm putting him middle, bottom of the lineup and I know what I'm gonna get. Gabby Moreno. Hey, verse lefties. Move him up in the lineup, right? He's not so much. Oh, hoppy. Kind of the same. Does anyone. Shayla Angeliers, I think.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Like, there's a lot of interesting conversations here.

[Justin Penick]

Shayla Angeliers has an argument. Ryan Jeffers kind of does, but for some reason he's not sexy.

[Bobby Bones]

So here, let me tell.

[Justin Penick]

Here's how with your catcher, you're.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Well, this is kind of going to go into what I'm about to say of like, the way I'm viewing aver Livy in 2002, which is a funny sentence, is the guys with resumes, the guys that have been up for a few years, that have done it for a few years, that have had great seasons in the past, that you say it's kind of complicated the way I view them where.

[Justin Penick]

So I guess the only Thing I want to twist on that is I just think there's a general excitement that's different between these guys and the next two columns.

[Bobby Bones]

I have a lot of guys I'm excited for in Hope or Nope.

[Justin Penick]

Sure.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Hope or Nope feels more negative than I think the guys that are slated.

[Justin Penick]

Okay. I guess. I guess there's an excitement factor a little bit and there's a floor factor.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

And maybe that's more of the difference.

[Bobby Bones]

I think that's where the excitement comes from. We don't. We don't know what the floor and ceiling are yet with a lot of these guys, whereas.

[Justin Penick]

So is that Alvarez?

[Bobby Bones]

No, because I don't. I don't know how bad or good Alvi can become. Alvy has plate discipline issues. Alvy had a really bad stretch in the middle of the year, but then you see what he can do and you get excited.

[Justin Penick]

So that's hope or no?

[Bobby Bones]

I guess that's hope.

[Justin Penick]

That's what I meant.

[Bobby Bones]

He's Hope or no for me. In the same way, with Austin Wells, where they're young, you get excited about what they can be like. I think a lot of Yankees fans are thinking Austin Wells can be a massive part of the 2025 team or he can be the same dude that he was last year, and that's still okay, but you want him to be more right. And there's a lot of guys that I think fall in that tier as well. The one guy that I have above it and feel free to, you know, have some discourse about it. Alejandro Kirk, the king of framing in catching, has had a four WAR season as a catcher, which is elite, but has taken a step back offensively the past two years, and we kind of don't know where he's at in the same way of, like, if Kirk has that 2022 season. I think we feel very differently about the Blue Jays lineup, where it's kind of. Kind of feels like they're a piece or two away. And a lot of guys had down years the past couple years. If Kirk can be that guy, and mind you, Kirk is going to be 26 this year, so youth factor applies there as well. You know what he brings defensively. If he can just get back to a little bit above league average, he becomes that plus plus player again. The plus plus kind of player that you've seen Sean Murphy be, that you've seen Tyler Stevenson be, that you've seen Gabby Marino be.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah, I'm. I'm struggling with that a little bit because 2022 is the outlier. And the last two years are pretty eerily similar. Again, like you mentioned, with age. I guess it gets tricky for me. Like, and this is where it's interesting with the New York goggles on. Like, Alvarez gets me pretty hyped. And I know it feels like there's a lot more in there. And he's still so young. How old is he?

[Bobby Bones]

I think maybe the youngest catcher on this list to be considered a starter. I think he's 20. He was 22 last year. He's gonna be 23 this year.

[Justin Penick]

Austin Wells was really good for a lot of the season. Austin Wells ran out of steam and I think it was his first year fully catching. This is a guy. They didn't know if he'd stick at catcher. That he had a really tough September. If you. If September never happened. The season ended August for that game.

[Bobby Bones]

Sure.

[Justin Penick]

Season ended August 31st. Here's Austin Wells stat line. 259. 348A. 795 OPS.

[Bobby Bones]

That's very good.

[Justin Penick]

Former first round pick. The question when he was coming up was his defense. And he passed everyone's eye test. He was very solid basketball. He ended up becoming the defensive catcher over Jose Trevino, who has a Platty glove in the bag. But his arm was in a funky spot last year, so that's a little bit of an outlier. So the. The thing with Austin Wells that we've discussed a lot at this point, it was a bookend. The bookends were bad. He had a tough April, tough September in the middle. He was great. He was their cleanup hitter. He was like.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

And it was right.

[Justin Penick]

Yes. He was protecting Soto and Judge that he is 25 years old. There is the game of baseball that I've represented so far that if it. If Austin Wells full season stats take a step back, it's not as exciting. If his full season numbers take a step up, which there's a lot of statistical reasons you could believe that he's really exciting. That I don't know. Like, I'm. I'm trying to get should him and oh, Hoppy be on.

[Bobby Bones]

I think what we've learned is we need a new tier. We need something above Hope or. Nope. Below Averlivian2002 or maybe above both of them. Because I don't. I don't have complicated feelings about Wells or Alvarez. I'm just excited for them. You know what I mean?

[Justin Penick]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Whereas, like, Hope or. Nope. And Avril Lavigne 2002 kind of have its complicated attached to them. So, like, is There like a. Like a 2026 daisy hunting tier or something like that where they still feel like they're a year away from really taking that step. But you're still, you know, it's there and you're excited for it. But you understand you got to be a little patient. They're young, I guess.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah, I guess. What's hitting me in the face right now, like you mentioned Bailey, everything we talked about. What's it the troll. Is that his control?

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Austin Wells, Alejandro Kirk, Joey Bart. Not right now, pal.

[Bobby Bones]

Sample size is going to be. Yeah. Young and really hit last year.

[Justin Penick]

If Landulers.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He feels like with the new.

[Justin Penick]

He's more bona fide than a lot of these guys.

[Bobby Bones]

He was a first round pick by the Braves. He was a big, big part of that trade.

[Justin Penick]

He. What did he finish with? 29 homers.

[Bobby Bones]

29 homers. A 111 OPS plus and he's going to be 27 OBP. It's tough. Yeah. But he's a. He's a slug catcher. He's kind of like Diet Yiner Diaz a little bit in my mind. 450 as a catcher. That's really good.

[Justin Penick]

So we need a new.

[Bobby Bones]

I think we need a new tier above Hope or. Nope. And below Avril Lavigne 2002. And I kind of like 2026 daisy hunting. I'd be open to something else, but it feels like at next year's tier list, any number of these guys could move up very.

[Justin Penick]

Okay. So this Patrick Bailey.

[Bobby Bones]

Bailey, the New York Boys and Shea.

[Justin Penick]

New York.

[Bobby Bones]

And maybe Logan. Oh, Hoppy, I think.

[Justin Penick]

Oh, Hoppy.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

How far is Gabby Moreno from oh, Hoppy, I guess that's what. I don't know.

[Bobby Bones]

I have him decently above.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He has.

[Justin Penick]

I think I do.

[Bobby Bones]

Hoppy's never a little bit. Moreno had a four war year at age 24.

[Justin Penick]

Right. As a catcher and 97 games. He's on a pretty similar pace last year.

[Bobby Bones]

So.

[Justin Penick]

Okay. That. That feels.

[Bobby Bones]

I think he's firmly up there with the other two.

[Justin Penick]

So Gabby Stevenson and Sean Murphy currently on a roll.

[Bobby Bones]

Yep.

[Justin Penick]

Interesting lands in it.

[Bobby Bones]

It visually looks weird and then when you take 10 minutes to think it through, I think it makes sense.

[Justin Penick]

Alejandro Kirk. I. I think he's with the fellas.

[Bobby Bones]

I think he's.

[Justin Penick]

I know that four. I know that four WAR seasons.

[Bobby Bones]

Maybe he's hope or. Nope. I don't know. We're kind of getting with him though.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Like if he doesn't do it, it's.

[Bobby Bones]

It's no like You're.

[Justin Penick]

He is.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Nope. It's three below average seasons in a row.

[Bobby Bones]

That when you said that he was kind of the same guy the past two years that Ranger in my head of like oh yeah, he had the same year two years in a row.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah. But it was also very young. That was his age. 25 season. It was a two war year as the best framer. Like I. I put him.

[Bobby Bones]

We can put him with the young cats. Why not?

[Justin Penick]

I. He is.

[Bobby Bones]

He's a young cat.

[Justin Penick]

He's a young cat. A couple trolls in there like it.

[Bobby Bones]

It's in there somewhere tier.

[Justin Penick]

If I'm a Red Sox fan, I'm screaming Connor Wong should be with them. That feels weird, right?

[Bobby Bones]

I can't even think about that.

[Justin Penick]

It feels a little weird. But Connor Wong was very good last year.

[Bobby Bones]

But he's going to be 29.

[Justin Penick]

Okay.

[Bobby Bones]

I have him in hope or nope.

[Justin Penick]

Okay, well, let's start really sending some darts here because I think that's right.

[Bobby Bones]

This new tier has made it a lot easier for me. I needed. I needed a separator.

[Justin Penick]

I don't think you're going to like this. I think Jonah Heim is hope or Nope.

[Bobby Bones]

I can agree.

[Justin Penick]

This is a do or die year for.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I can agree with that too. He was one of the more interesting ones to talk about because you zoom out and you say, well, this dude was a switching and catcher with near 20 home runs who hit in the middle of the lineup on a World Series winning team and showed up in the playoffs. And then you look at everything around that year which is essentially three full seasons of baseball and none of it is particularly great that you can only really view that 23 season as an outlier. And Heim's going to be 30 this year. So what is he. We're going to find out if he's league average offense. You have the hope.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

But it's very close to a nope. So I think that's pretty fair.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah, I guess. And maybe something that can help me deal with these themes a little better is like if you were bad last year that you should feel that sure, Sean Murphy was really bad.

[Bobby Bones]

That's why he moved down.

[Justin Penick]

So I have a lot of good Sean Murphy in my head and again, oh, bleak injury can be brutal for a baseball player. That there can be egg on the face. But it sometimes baseball also happens the other way. That.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay, so how I'm rationalizing that tier right. Is if they are good to great next year. I. I'm not that surprised. Like you Know what they're capable of. Deshaun, Murphy, Stevenson, Gabby, the young guys below, if they're great next year, it's like, wow, they did it. Like, they're. They have become a great catcher.

[Justin Penick]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

With Alvarez and Wells and those. Bailey, great example of, like, he did it. He's a hitter now as well.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

It's that league average offensive season.

[Bobby Bones]

It's more of a surprise if those guys do it.

[Justin Penick]

Okay, so Landeliers is with all the young. The young cats row. Yeah, I think you're right. I don't think he should be with Stevenson, Murphy, and Gabby, although he might be if he played on a different team. But last year, it's the first good year. Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

Okay. Okay. Okay. Hope or nope. Where's Ivan Herrera go? His offensive stats are actually pretty nice.

[Bobby Bones]

Is he up there, too?

[Justin Penick]

I think so. I think there's questions about his defense, but his offensive profile at age 24 is really nice. So I. I have no qualms with it.

[Bobby Bones]

If the Cardinals ended up a good team last year, that would have been one of the cooler stories of, like, they signed this catcher to a massive deal. They immediately move him off the position, and then they just found another young catcher who stepped in and was great.

[Justin Penick]

Right.

[Bobby Bones]

Offensively, at least that. Yeah. Give him a full season, see if he can take the step. You know, he came in halfway through the year. Like, that's. That's kind of a hard. He was the backup, then he became the starter, but he earned that role. Like, he hit his way to that role.

[Justin Penick]

I have good news and bad news. I just looked at Jake Rogers stat page, and unfortunately, he is the bottom line. I know.

[Bobby Bones]

I love Jake.

[Justin Penick]

I know. We have an image of the mustache and some playoff moments. Jake Rogers on the bottom line.

[Bobby Bones]

Damn it. Well, he had a. Damn it.

[Justin Penick]

No. I'm sorry. He could you like a likable guy.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

But no, I think I have a fairly easy hope. Or.

[Chris Rose]

Nope.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I think that's where I want to put Joey Bart. He did a good year. You can get excited, but if it doesn't. If you're a Pirates fan, you are a little jazzed up about it. But if he doesn't do it, then it's like, all right, we're back to where we were a year ago, and that's fine.

[Justin Penick]

You went nuts.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He went nuts this year, and it was fun.

[Bobby Bones]

I think I'm with you because it's. It's less than. It's half a year. It's 80 games. We spent four years waiting for him. To become the successor to Buster Posey. It never happened. It felt like a nope. And now he's giving you back the hope a little bit. But there's also a world where he comes out and he has a bad April, and the Pirates are like, all right, we got to figure something out of catcher.

[Justin Penick]

I want to finish placing the names because he has a 2025. Avril Lavigne. It's complicated. I mean, Bart could have that in spades. He could also be hope or nope. Because change of scenery is a real thing. He's a number two overall pick.

[Bobby Bones]

Is that just one tier?

[Justin Penick]

Hope or nope. And Avril Lavigne, is that just one tier? Where's Ryan Jeffers?

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

That's one I've been trying to figure out.

[Justin Penick]

I think he's hope or nope. And it's actually fair for now. I'm interested. I'm interested in bringing them together. Ryan Jeffers, he had a. A baller 2023. He had a fine year last year, but, like, this year is actually the season where it's like, can you bank on Ryan Jeffers being your starting catcher or no?

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Or is he just a lefty masher? And that's a fine role to be.

[Justin Penick]

In because the last two years, he's.

[Bobby Bones]

A tough one to place.

[Justin Penick]

He said years are kind of nice.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Last year's month by month, it's like three awesome months.

[Bobby Bones]

He was five war base in 2023, which, like, three of these guys on the list have done right pace. Not full season, but still. He's weird. Wow.

[Justin Penick]

Right? Really weird. I'm fine putting him next to Jonah Heim for now. Like, I think that's.

[Bobby Bones]

I think that's okay.

[Justin Penick]

I think that's okay. Danny Jansen, him below Connor Wong is kind of tough. I have. I have them on the same road right now.

[Bobby Bones]

Jeffers or Janssen?

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Jeffers. I have on the same. Jansen. I believe we're slating in below.

[Justin Penick]

Jansen's got to be below.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I think so.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I. I think he is. It's complicated, and it's not exciting. He's kind. I think he's kind of the quintessential.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

It's complicated.

[Bobby Bones]

He might hit.

[Justin Penick]

He might. He doesn't have.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He'll have his good weeks.

[Justin Penick]

It seemed like at. At one point, he just made the turn. Like, I'm gonna try to hit home run of can.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

So I think that's fair that that works. Okay, so now the only two names I don't have on the board are Bo Naylor and Luis Campusano.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Who did we play? Stallings.

[Justin Penick]

Oh, I have him in 2025. Avril advance.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, that got weird. Why. Why was he so good last year old?

[Justin Penick]

But he's nasty now. I don't. Sometimes catchers just do this. He, like, won the Gold Glove with Pittsburgh and that was cool. He went to Miami and was a disaster.

[Bobby Bones]

I mean, he was so bad offensively. And then he went to Colorado.

[Justin Penick]

Right. Which there's some connotations with that.

[Bobby Bones]

Right.

[Justin Penick]

And it's. I all due respect to Jacob's songs, like, cool, awesome, happy you're here. You're not on the bottom row, dude.

[Bobby Bones]

Did he sign somewhere?

[Justin Penick]

I think there was a time in J still. Yeah, there was a time in Jacob Stalling's career. I think he was hoping to be on the bottom row and be on the list. And he is not that Gold Glove.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Pirates years at 31.

[Justin Penick]

He was hoping he's on the second row. So it's a good contract. You're missed right now.

[Bobby Bones]

I just. I didn't. Jacob Stallings. It's just another case of the Rockies did something good and why can't they do more good things?

[Justin Penick]

That's for another day. Campusano Bowl Nailer. Seeing all these other names on the board.

[Bobby Bones]

Is Campusano at the bottom?

[Justin Penick]

Hey, man, I like a good profile. I like. I think he was bad, dude.

[Bobby Bones]

I think he's at the bottom like I.

[Justin Penick]

And this was one. Where is Elias Diaz going to win the job from him?

[Bobby Bones]

I don't. I don't think that's a crazy thing to say.

[Justin Penick]

He's 26, 90 career ops. But there's a clear outlier. 49 games.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

I think he's at the bottom and.

[Bobby Bones]

He'S at the bottom.

[Justin Penick]

And I think Bo is too. I think if we didn't know his brother.

[Bobby Bones]

That's an interesting. If Bo had a different last name. How would we feel about him if.

[Justin Penick]

We just knew him as Bo? Bo Story. Well, I'll be two attacks, easy with that. Be at the top of the list.

[Bobby Bones]

Good in 2023.

[Justin Penick]

He was bad.

[Bobby Bones]

He was bad.

[Justin Penick]

We're dinging bad.

[Bobby Bones]

Last years I have him above the bottom tier. If you've shown me anything, I have you above the bottom tier.

[Justin Penick]

Is he that different than Campusano, though?

[Bobby Bones]

I think so. His offensive ceiling was higher. He played with. I don't know. He wasn't a platoon. Right.

[Justin Penick]

Was he last year?

[Bobby Bones]

Either of the years?

[Justin Penick]

I mean, last year he played 123 games.

[Bobby Bones]

So I think he has that going for him. Campusano should have been better because he was a platoon and he wasn't.

[Justin Penick]

Higgy. Higgy mode, though. Hickey mode.

[Bobby Bones]

I don't know. I don't feel that passionately about it. If you want to put him bottom, too. I'm not gonna die on that hill.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Under my head. It feels like they should be 20, 25, but because it's kind of a little bit.

[Bobby Bones]

It has. It has a chance to look really bad is my only thing. It has a chance to look terrible. If he's the bottom tier and he ends up being, you know, the pace that he was on in 2023, I.

[Justin Penick]

Guess here's the situation we found ourselves in. We.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I think their fans have talked themselves into those two, too.

[Justin Penick]

We like ourselves at the top of the board.

[Bobby Bones]

Oh, I love our first four tiers.

[Justin Penick]

Big dumper. Adley Yiner and Will Smith on the second tier. JT and Salvi paired together is beautiful. That's artwork.

[Bobby Bones]

Yep.

[Justin Penick]

Avril Lavigne, 2002. It's complicated. Sean Murphy again hit hard for last year, but, like, I think that's the one that could hurt us the most currently. But we will see Stevenson and Gabby kind of looking for that full year. Bona fide we are with the upper echelon below that. Our guys saying the same thing, just with less of a resume as Stevenson, who's hit Gabby, who's done both. Sean Murphy, obviously. Bailey, Alvarez, Wells. Oh, Hoppy, Kirkland, Herrera. That below, we have the two rows. Heim Jeffers, Connor Wong, Stallings, Bart Jansen. In the nicest way. I would much rather have Heim Jeffer. So I. I want to split.

[Bobby Bones]

You want him split?

[Justin Penick]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Okay.

[Justin Penick]

I think those are two different tiers.

[Bobby Bones]

Can I counter in this negotiation?

[Justin Penick]

Yeah, fine.

[Bobby Bones]

With the split, move jeffers up to 20, 26 days. The honor, really.

[Justin Penick]

You want him with the kids? You think Jeffers got something in there? He might. I think he does that page. He does. He does.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He does feel like he can get. You can guarantee a little more from him than these guys.

[Justin Penick]

I guess where I'm getting tripped up, which is somewhere you started. God, Jonah Heim was bad last year.

[Bobby Bones]

He's bad.

[Justin Penick]

It's tough because if you were building a team and I said, hey, would you rather have Jonah Heim or Ryan Jeffers? The instinct is to jump to Jonah.

[Bobby Bones]

Right.

[Justin Penick]

The name, value, switch hitting. But Ryan Jeffers has been good. I think you're right.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He pegs runners.

[Bobby Bones]

I think. I think he does. I don't think it's a disservice to him because he got leaned on for the Twins last year. He was their best hitter. He was their three hitter for a while. Travel singing his praises every week.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

He's getting some like lead off against lefty days.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. Like they kind of, you know, they put a lot was put on him.

[Justin Penick]

So you're right.

[Bobby Bones]

And when Heim was good, not a lot was put on him. That was a deep lineup where he was protected.

[Justin Penick]

Yeah.

[Bobby Bones]

Jeffers was not protected either last year.

[Justin Penick]

Like Heim's gonna be protected next year. Yeah, probably what's in my head. Yeah. So are we willing to put Jonah Heim and Connor Wong in the same row as Stallings, Bart and Janssen?

[Bobby Bones]

No, I think we keep it separate and I think that's fine.

[Justin Penick]

Okay. So we basically the only thing left to do is rename the kids line. And you've been going 20, 26 days.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, I'm not married to it. I can be talked out of it. That was kind of just a place.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Kind of a starting point.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah. I don't know what's accurate.

[Justin Penick]

God. Because they're. They've all.

[Bobby Bones]

They're all young.

[Chris Rose]

Is this.

[Justin Penick]

They're all young in Jeffers now.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah, Jeffers is the exception, but I.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Think he's this Twitter fights situation.

[Bobby Bones]

Is this a Twitter's fight? Because people are gonna get really mad at Bailey a little bit. People are getting really mad at Bailey.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Being there mad at Bailey.

[Bobby Bones]

I still think it's fair.

[Justin Penick]

That whole I'm getting.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

I've been getting in. In Austin Wells fights.

[Bobby Bones]

I've gotten an Alvarez fight before.

[Justin Penick]

I think it's Twitter fights for good reason.

[Bobby Bones]

Angels fans love. Oh Hoppy James fans love Kirk Twitter.

[Justin Penick]

Fights for good reason. Yeah, I can see why you would love your guy. Like that was the other reason that we started doing the tier list. It was because you watch your guy every day and you go, that guy's the best. I love that guy. That to actually lay him out on a neutral field. Well, this guy might be better.

[Bobby Bones]

I think that's perfect.

[Justin Penick]

That I could see. Why would you. Why you would Twitter fight for any of these guys. But you can't really elevate him above the others unless you're. You're locked into defense. Bailey would have an argument. The other guys, yeah, they're all on the a pretty similar wavelength that I, I feel pretty okay.

[Bobby Bones]

The. The way I look at Bailey is there's one guy on that 8 man tier that has never been league average offensively and it's Bailey.

[Justin Penick]

It's Bailey and it's Patrick Bailey. Okay, so it seems like the final tiers. Baby bro in the butt, daisy hunting, chasing 40. Avril Lavigne, 2002. Twitter fights for a good reason, Hope or nope? Avril Lavigne, 2025. It's complicated. Austin Hedges at the bottom of the the category. Yeah. I guess if. If there was one thing I could. Could tweak, I think I would put Sean Murphy with Real Muto and Salvi. But the way the tears are laid.

[Bobby Bones]

Out, he's not chasing 40.

[Justin Penick]

He's not. He's not.

[Bobby Bones]

He hasn't been doing it long enough.

[Justin Penick]

And there's. There's different ways you can chop up his resume that he has the wand for this year.

[Bobby Bones]

Yeah.

[Justin Penick]

And he can change it and he can. He can make us feel foolish. And I. I do hope you're right, Jolly. I. I hope that Campusano or Naylor, one of them, one of them makes us be like, well, that's right. They. They had a. They had the profile. They were young. It came together, but you got to do it to do it. So any final thoughts?

[Bobby Bones]

I'd still move Bo up from the bottom tier.

[Justin Penick]

You can do that on your own.

[Bobby Bones]

I did it on my own.

[Justin Penick]

Thank you for joining us for the catcher tier list. Enjoy it. What did you like? What did you hate? Please comment below. Please subscribe, share with a friend and tell them about BBD's Uncle Dan Wick.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

And Jake is a production of Dan Patrick Productions, John Boy Media, and Workhouse Media.

[Justin Penick]

Thanks, Charlie.

[Matt Castle]

Hey, it's Bobby Bones. Join me and former NFL quarterback Matt Castle every Wednesday for our new podcast, Lots to say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle. Between us, we have over 17,500 passing yards, multiple New York Times bestsellers, and one mirror ball trophy from Dancing with a Star. So where else are you going to find a show with that much athleticism and football insight? We talk sports, but we talk pop culture and music and a little bit of everything. Listen to Lots to Say with Bobby Bones and Matt Castle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bobby Bones]

What's up, everyone? Julie Swerbinks here along with former NHL player Nate Thompson. We're doing a new podcast together. Here we go. The Name Energy Line with Nate and jsb. Each week we'll get together and talk about hockey life. All topics are fair game, right? Exactly. And you'll never know who will drop by to join us. Julie is pretty well connected. She has text threads going that you wouldn't believe. Listen to Energy Line with Nate and jsb on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chris Rose]

What's up everyone? It's Justin Penick from John Boy Media, the host of the Football Today podcast with Bobby Skinner and Chris Rose. We roll three times a week on Mondays, on Wednesdays, on Fridays, breaking down everything you need to know about the NFL. We're gearing up for the NFL playoffs. I hope you can join us. Join in with us three times a week. Listen to Football Today on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast and you will be glad you did.

[Bobby Bones]

Coming February 11th, a new podcast, Obscurum.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Invasion of the Drones.

[Bobby Bones]

Somebody's making money doing this, otherwise it wouldn't exist. It actually rotates around our house, looking.

[Justin Penick]

As if it was peering in each window of our home.

[Bobby Bones]

They were visibly dropped. They had reports of shots fired at drones.

[Maurice Jones-Drew]

Listen to Obscurum Invasion of the drones.

[Bobby Bones]

Starting February 11th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.