Grant Hill (1:40)

Where is the entry point, do you think, for this kind of corruption, fixing games with the NFL?

Mike Florio (1:46)

Oh, I think players are a very easy way to do it. Not as it relates to fixing games, players, but fixing bets, prop bets. What we saw with Terry Rosier, right?

Grant Hill (1:57)

Yeah.

Mike Florio (1:57)

Leaving a game early, somebody loads up on the unders. We've seen that multiple times in the NBA. The micro betting, which I think is becoming more and more of a focus, number one, because it's so damn addictive for the gamblers. But number two, it's so easy to manipulate the outcome of a given play, to know what a given play is going to be. The main character in Big Shield, one of the things he does beyond providing information ahead of time as to what the game plan is, who's going to get the ball, how we're going to attack one play at a time. He lets it be known whether the next play is a run or a pass. And it can be that simple in a. In a world of widespread micro betting, where it's as simple as is the next player run or a pass.

Grant Hill (2:40)

We look back last year at this time with our show notes, and we spent a couple of days on the Tush push, and it felt like it was going away. You know, the NFL was trying to manufacture numbers for the safety of the sport. We knew it wasn't aesthetically pleasing, and then all of a sudden, everybody seems to be okay with the Tush push. What happened, Mike?

Mike Florio (3:02)

Well, you know, it's funny, Dan. 22 votes against the tush push. Last year, 67% of the league was in favor of scrapping the rule. But for the fact that the constitution of the NFL requires 75% to change a rule, it would have been gone. This year, there's no discussion about it at all. Look, the goalpost constantly moved. In 2025, it was. It's a safety issue then it was. It's not aesthetic. It's not football. It's not this. It's not that. Some people thought it just flowed from the jealousy and resentment of the Eagles because they were using it and they pushed it all the way to a championship. I think it's as simple as the commissioner was watching the NFC championship game, capping the 2024 season. He saw the moment where the commanders deliberately went offside enough times to get referee Sean Hockey to say, if you do it one more time, I'm awarding a touchdown under a rule the NFL has never applied in 107 years. And I think that sparked an effort to get rid of it. And when they swung and missed last year, there wasn't the impetus. Somebody told me before the season, it's going to depend on how remarkable the play is throughout 2025. And it wasn't remarkable enough to put it on anyone's radar screen.

Grant Hill (4:15)

Okay, but if the Eagles had won the super bowl again, it would have been remarkable.

Mike Florio (4:20)

That's the key. It would. It would have taken something to create an urgency. The NFL only has so much bandwidth. Their current urgency is this apparent plan to lock out the officials and expand the use of replay to help the high school and junior college officials. So it's all about bandwidth. How much time do you have? How many hours in a day? It wasn't enough last year to get it on that radar screen. Of the things the NFL is currently

Grant Hill (4:47)

trying to do, why Are they going to lock out the officials?

Mike Florio (4:50)

Well, I mean, money is always the easy answer when it comes to anything like this. And they claim they're trying to improve officiating. Now the commissioner said in his pre super bowl press conference, I'm, I'm amazed at how good the officials are. They're, they're changing their tune dramatically. And the problem with saying we need them to be better, we need them to be better, the easy answer to that is dig deep in your pocket. Use some of that gambling money you're now getting from all the different sports books and, and all the different revenue streams and the game keeps getting more and more profitable. Use some of that money to have full time officials across the board 12 months a year. No seasonal employees, no part time employees. Everybody else connected to the NFL is working full time. So they need to be careful about how hard they bang that drum of we have to improve officiating. But I've been following it closely now and look, it seems like the kind of thing Dan, like any other negotiation, you get in a room, you close the door, you sit down and people of sound mind and goodwill can work something out. I feel like the NFL wants to lock them out for some other purpose. As simple as justifying an expansion of the use of technology when it comes to officiating.

Grant Hill (5:59)

Mike Florio PRO Football Talk LIVE CO HOST but what kind of implementation are we going to have that the, the officials are going to object to?

Mike Florio (6:10)

Well, I think they'll object to anything that would eventually reduce the number of jobs. And the commissioner in the past has mentioned that they could try to find ways to use AI to improve officiating. We know that the quality of the, the camera angles is so much better. They now have that Hawkeye system in every stadium that gives the league. And it's not stuff that we routinely see on tv. The league has access to great looks at everything now. I don't know that the league has the capacity to properly assist the replacement officials to get everything right. Think about how many games are played at one o' clock Eastern on a Sunday. Do you have enough people in the room who know what they're doing to help Jacksonville at Houston and Tampa Bay at New Orleans and the games that don't get pulled into a primetime window. You give me a primetime game, okay, there's only one game on. We'll trust that the league, although that may be misplaced, trusted. We trust they won't screw it up. But I mean, look at the controversies that come up already with instant replay So I think this idea that, oh, it won't be like last time with the fail Mary from that Seahawks packers debacle that ended up the lockout and caused the NFL to finally blink because now they can use replay centralized. I think that's too easy of a fix. But I also think it's a way for them to start experimenting with cheaper options. And maybe they are just trying to break the union. I've seen different words used in how the NFL issues its statements. That makes me wonder and I don't want to read too much into it, but it's like, are they really just trying to break this union and start over again? We'll find out.

Grant Hill (7:49)

You had the story about is the NFL looking to cap how much of individual player can make? Expound upon that.

Mike Florio (7:59)

Well, the NBA has had for how many years now as long as I can remember, which isn't very long anymore. But they've had the max contracts and there's a limit to what any one player can make. I've been trying to figure out the full menu of things the NFL is going to want when it's time to engage with the new NFL Players association executive director J.C. treader because the league has been waiting for things to settle down with the union. As one source explained to me over the weekend, the NFL believes its business has been, quote, unquote, constipated by the turmoil at the nflpa. They want to get things moving. They want to get to 18 games, 16 international games every year. So what else do they want? They've made noise in the past about maybe reconfiguring the salary cap because, you know, expenses are going up and we pay those out of our half. That's what the owners say. We maybe need more than half of all the revenue to pay our expenses. But one of the things I've caught wind of trying to come up with this list of what all they want this possibility and I believe the union is bracing for it. Individual players, a limit on how much they can make, a cap on how much a franchise quarterback's going to make. And Dan, currently the franchise quarterbacks aren't involved in union matters. If that becomes a thing, you're going to see Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Dak Prescott, all the great quarterbacks are going to be lining up to get key spots in union management.

Grant Hill (9:23)

Help me understand this. The commissioner, actually, I think, I think he said this, that they haven't even talked about the 18 game schedule. We know they've talked about the 18. Yes, I know. Yeah, I don't know why he doesn't say yes, we've thought about it. Of course we have. You know, just like the international games, the number of games that were going to be played internationally, we knew we were headed here. We know we're headed to 18 games. You know, Jerry Jones comes out and says, hey, the players can make more money if there's an 18th game. Thank you, Jerry. What is the time frame for this 18 game schedule?

Mike Florio (10:00)

And Dan, this is something that we reported the day after the super bowl and we've been talking about it more and more, and there was nothing that happened in Arizona the past few days to make me think that this has changed. Super Bowl 62 in Atlanta, they do not have a date picked yet. And Peter O'Reilly, one of the NFL executive VPs, tried to downplay that the other day, but in so doing, he also said, well, not having a date allows for, you know, important things like schedule flexibility. Well, if it's going to be 17 games and one by and it starts after Labor Day weekend, we know Super Bowl 62 will be played February 13, 2028 in Atlanta. There's nothing to wait for. So what would change? They're not going back to Labor Day weekend until they have to. That's not a high ratings weekend for the NFL. They abandoned it in 2001. It would be the addition of another game. And that's specifically why I reported at the time. They don't have a date for that Super Bowl. They don't know how many games are going to play that year. So they're still holding out the possibility. And it may be slim at this point, but, but they're holding out hope for the possibility. 18 games by 2027, which is the season after next, which is amazing when you think about it because it's this vague. Oh, it's going to happen at some point. It could be happening sooner than later.

Grant Hill (11:16)

So, Mike, I can't plan my retirement party in Atlanta at that super bowl. Right. I don't know when I'm retiring.

Mike Florio (11:25)

You got to have, you got to have important scheduling flexibility. Dan, the legal. Get back to all of us now. O'Reilly said, O'Reilly said that, that it's not uncommon to not have a date at this point relative to. So I, I think it is pretty uncommon. I think it's unprecedented to be 22 months out and not know which week they need for the convention center and thousands of hotel rooms, I think that's unprecedented. But he seemed to suggest by the start of the season well, no. So by September, you should not.

Grant Hill (11:57)

Okay. Mike Florio. His latest novel, Big Shield, available on Amazon in ebook form for only 99 cents. It's a tale of the mob, pro sports in the age of legalized gambling. Thank you, Mike.

Mike Florio (12:10)

Dan, great talking to you, buddy.

Grant Hill (12:11)

That's Mike Florio.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (12:13)

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Dan Patrick (12:14)

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Dan Patrick (12:22)

Hey, it's me, Rob Parker. Check out my weekly MLB podcast, Inside the Parker for 22 minutes of piping

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Grant Hill (12:53)

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Dan Patrick (14:10)

I'm trying to run as fast AS T mobile 5G home Internet, Zach.

Grant Hill (14:13)

Well, you better pick it up because now T Mobile has the fastest 5G home Internet according to OOKLA Speed test. Really?

Dan Patrick (14:19)

How's this?

Grant Hill (14:20)

T Mobile's faster than that, bud.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (14:22)

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Dan Patrick (14:23)

No.

Grant Hill (14:24)

Plus they've got a five year price guarantee.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (14:26)

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Dan Patrick (14:27)

Faster. How can I go any faster?

Grant Hill (14:29)

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Dan Patrick (14:40)

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Mike Florio (14:41)

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Grant Hill (14:45)

You'll be all right. Just walk it off.

Dan Patrick (14:46)

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Mike Florio (14:59)

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Dan Patrick (15:02)

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Mike Florio (15:02)

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Dan Patrick (15:04)

data on eligible plans.

Grant Hill (15:05)

Find exclusions and details@t mobile.com Basketball may give you a shining moment, but we give you legendary moments with Miller Light. The taste you can depend on. A great beer. Trusted by beer lovers for over 50 years now, it is the original. They've been doing this since 1975. The original light beer. Simple ingredients, malted barley for rich, balanced toffee note flavors. And that iconic golden color. Sometimes you just look at it. You hold it up with the sunlight. Looks gorgeous and it tastes great. That's why I reach for a Miller Lite. And you should too. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com Patrick to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up Miller Lite pretty much anywhere that sells beer because it's always Miller time. It's a great time. Tournament time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 oz.

Dan Patrick (16:05)

Day or night.

Grant Hill (16:07)

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Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (16:09)

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Grant Hill (16:15)

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Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (16:18)

whenever you reach out. From the moment you book to the moment you head home.

Grant Hill (16:23)

We're here to help things run smoothly because a great trip starts with the right support. And hey, a good playlist doesn't hurt either. We make way for Tom Izzo, Michigan State head basketball coach. Won a title back in 2004. Time Big Ten coach of the year, joining us from his office. Doesn't look like anything's changed in that office, coach.

Dan Patrick (16:48)

Well, I tell you what, Dan, it's good to talk to you. I. First of all, I wonder if I get a grill for talking to you. I like the grill. That was good. And. And now you got Grant Hill coming up. He's one of my favorites. So I'm just sandwiched between a grill and.

Grant Hill (17:03)

And Graham? Yeah? You want a grill?

Dan Patrick (17:07)

Oh, that sounded like it was awesome.

Grant Hill (17:09)

Okay, I'll take care of that.

Dan Patrick (17:11)

Okay.

Grant Hill (17:12)

I'll send You a grill. Rectech will send you a grill, and you could have recruits in there. And, you know, I don't know if that's a violation.

Dan Patrick (17:21)

No, it's not anymore. There are no rules. Whatever you want, I could bring you in as a chef. In fact, it's no good. All right.

Grant Hill (17:29)

Best team you face this year.

Dan Patrick (17:33)

Wow. I mean, I guess Michigan would have to be the most talented. Best team I faced. I thought Duke was awfully good. In fact, you know, you talk about a tough situation, Dan. I kept telling my. My assistants I thought John Shire did the best job he's ever done. You know, I thought that was a very good Duke team, but maybe not quite as talented as we're normally used to seeing. And they just kept winning. And that shows you how brutal this tournament is. But, you know, Michigan is one of the best. We played Michigan. I do like UConn a lot. I think Illinois came on the best. So those are three teams in the final Four. What the hell am I playing all those people?

Grant Hill (18:11)

I don't know.

Dan Patrick (18:12)

Many losses, Coach.

Grant Hill (18:13)

I got you. Iowa, Duke, Michigan, Illinois, Purdue, Michigan again, and Connecticut.

Dan Patrick (18:21)

Yeah, they were all in the.

Grant Hill (18:24)

The.

Dan Patrick (18:24)

The what? Elite?

Grant Hill (18:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dan Patrick (18:27)

So you can never rip me about scheduling. Dad. Show. Don't do that.

Grant Hill (18:31)

Hey, I. I'll never say that you're afraid to schedule somebody, but I remember when you played Yukon in the, like an exhibition game. How does that happen between you and Dan Hurley?

Dan Patrick (18:43)

Well, Danny called me. We're friends, you know, but we've gotten to be better friends as the year went on, even. But, you know, I like Dan. I think he's certifiably crazy. Yes. But I think he's. I think his passion, his love for his players, what he's done with that program has been phenomenal. And I just thought one of my players, I'm always worried, are we tough enough? I knew his team was tough. And when we went there, just so you know, they kicked our butt. You know, it ended up like 10 point game, but it was. We got down 12 early, kind of like the game we played and never could catch up.

Grant Hill (19:19)

Yeah, I remember watching that game. And if you would have said, which one of these teams is going to go further? I would have said Connecticut is going to go further in the tournament because,

Dan Patrick (19:29)

well, you have, you know, what jet he could say about you then. You have a wonderful sense for the obvious.

Grant Hill (19:37)

So Hurley's good. Crazy.

Dan Patrick (19:40)

Yeah. Yeah. I love him.

Grant Hill (19:42)

But that moment that he has with Roger Ayers, can you explain that as a coach? Of in that moment. Out of body experience.

Dan Patrick (19:52)

Yeah, you know, we have out of body experiences, you know, and Roger Ayres, one of the better officials in the whole damn country. But, you know, sometimes officials lose it, sometimes coaches lose it. You know, we're supposed to be human. I think that's the cool part about it. We are human. And that means, you know, we let our emotions get the best of us. It's an emotional game and. But I think all in all, you'd say that most people have great respect for Dan.

Grant Hill (20:20)

Explain to me that last 10 seconds with Duke. Like, let's say you're in the huddle and you know they're going to press, they may foul. So what do you tell your team to do in that moment?

Dan Patrick (20:33)

Yeah, I'd want him to get it to my best free throw shooter, to be honest with you. And I thought that Duke did everything right. It's, you know, you got a freshman that just dribbled and, you know, I listened to Jay Bilis talk about what Duke does at their practices, turning face. And you know what? Easy to say that when you get in the moment. And by the way, that freshman was unbelievable. Boozer was unbelievable early in the game, you know, and what he did the game before. So I listen, I've been at 15, got beaten by a 2. I think John did an incredible job all year. And I always tell my team, you got to be good enough to get somewhere, which is the sweet 16. After that, you got to be lucky enough and healthy enough. They weren't real healthy, and that night, they weren't real lucky. Now, give UConn credit. I told Danny the next day, I said, I deserve some credit for your comeback because I showed you that a team could be 19 down and come back and go ahead like we did. And that damn guy gave me no credit, you know, So I don't know if I like Dan as much as I used to.

Grant Hill (21:45)

He did talk about having a conversation with you when he was thinking about going to the Lakers because you were thinking about going to the Cavaliers. What was the advice that you gave him at that time?

Dan Patrick (21:59)

Well, I didn't want to lose him in college basketball because I think he's so good for it. But I did say we got to keep an eye on what's happening in our profession, too. And I don't know what I'd do if it was today. He had the chance about a year or two ago, and I think things are so crazy in college athletics right now. I don't know if I'D feel different if I was to be very honest with you, because I think something has to be done with the insanity we're going through. But I don't think anybody else cares. So I'll just keep plucking along and see if I can get to a Final Four again.

Grant Hill (22:33)

Well, let's say that opportunity came up, given these circumstances with the Cavaliers and, you know, I don't know how old you were at the time, but I

Dan Patrick (22:45)

was a lot younger. But I bet I've had, you know, more than a couple job offers in the, in the NBA, and, and looked at one last year with Phoenix, you know, and my former player, Matt Ispia. And that was hard. That was a hard thing to turn down because, number one, I, I kind of wanted to go with him.

Grant Hill (23:05)

So they offered you the head coaching job?

Dan Patrick (23:07)

We talked seriously about it, let's say that. And then number two is, you know, I've been pretty vocal about it. I don't like what's going on in college athletics, but by the way, neither do 99.8% of the football and basketball coaches in America. And I think the kids are going to still find out before it's done. It's not best for them either. But in the meantime, you got to do what you got to do. And I'll let guys like you call me old school, but that means you're old school, too, and I think we're both right school.

Grant Hill (23:37)

So we'll see what happens when the transfer portal opens. I've been told 1100 men's basketball players will be in the portal. 1100, 1101.

Dan Patrick (23:51)

My wife's thinking of putting me in the portal, too, and I guess I'm part of college basketball. But. But yeah, it's. I mean, you tell me there's any sanity to that, and you tell me that's right. And you know what people like you, media people don't do. Sorry, but since you guys can critique us, we can critique you guys once in a while. We never talk about the kids that lose and fail and all the problems that it creates and what it creates later in their life. We just talk about the successful quarterback who did it and led a team to here and there. But there's a lot of guys that fail, a lot more that fail than succeed. And I don't know where they're going to go when they've been to three, four different schools. But I guess it's not my problem. I stayed put, so I'm still here.

Grant Hill (24:38)

Tom Izzo Michigan State HEAD BASKETBALL COACH do kids have to go to class anymore? Because I, I bring up that used to be when I was going to school, you could be academically ineligible. Athletes were academically ineligible. I haven't heard anybody be academically ineligible in a few years here, coach.

Dan Patrick (24:54)

Boy, I love that statement. First of all, they do here. I think they do it a lot of places. But second of all, you scold my line from earlier. You know, are there any rules? Are there, is there any accountability? I mean, it seems like if you don't like something, get a lawyer and go sue. And so I don't know. I don't know what most schools do. I know this. I'm a couple weeks away from going to my 35th straight graduation. I've seen every player here graduate that has graduated, which has been a high percentage. And yeah, we still go to class here, Dan. We really do.

Grant Hill (25:31)

Anybody in the tournament? Did you recruit Mullins?

Dan Patrick (25:35)

Yes, I did. I did. I told him in the line, too, that he made a bad decision. He said, why? I said, you just cost me a championship.

Grant Hill (25:46)

You think if you had him here, you'd be still playing?

Dan Patrick (25:50)

Well, put it this way, he's a pretty good player and he is, ironically, this is a true story. He's from Indiana and my trainer is from his high school and real good friends with his dad. So when we didn't get him, I fired my trainer,

Grant Hill (26:08)

and rightfully so. You're thinking you're in, right? I mean, if you, you got him, don't you?

Dan Patrick (26:16)

Oh, no. He was recruited by a lot of people and I never felt that comfortable about getting them, but I just said we recruited him, but he was, he's a hell of a player, you know, and he even had some injuries this year, you know, in that early on when we played him the first time. But that kid's going to be. He's just going to get better and better as his body fills out. He's six, six. He's, he can shoot the ball pretty good from long, long, long. Yeah, that was shot. I swear to God, he can shoot it from there.

Grant Hill (26:47)

The McDonald's All American game, it feels like everybody's between 6, 5 and 6, 8, and they all do the same thing. If you go back to the old McDonald's All American game, you might have had Kenny Anderson in there. Then you would have a Shaq. Like, we don't have that, you know, separation of a six footer and a seven footer. Feels like everybody's around the same height doing the same thing.

Dan Patrick (27:14)

Well, we had a kid in there, you know, Josiah Jervis, who's six four, six five.

Grant Hill (27:21)

Yeah.

Dan Patrick (27:21)

And I think you're right. There was a lot of that in those games. And I think that's because we've got a lot of position, this basketball. The big guys have kind of gone by the wayside, sorta. But I do think. I think Charles Barkley and Shaq, those guys think the big guy's coming back. I do think when Ed in our league, you know, the 74 kid. And I think the big guys are going to come back. I think everything's cyclical. You know, everybody gets into this three point shooting because it's the new sexy thing. And, you know, at the end of the day, I still think you got to be balanced in what you do.

Grant Hill (27:58)

Ryan Day at Ohio State was talking about, if you don't adapt, you die in college. Well, he was talking about college football or you retire. I mean, the guys who are, you know, right there with you or were. They've all retired or they retired earlier. Yeah, I mean, Caliper and Picino are still doing it, and you. But you guys are dinosaurs.

Dan Patrick (28:23)

What a compliment.

Grant Hill (28:24)

Yes.

Dan Patrick (28:24)

I think, Yeah, I think I'll retire before I die, hopefully. But, you know, I do, I do talk to Ryan Day. You know, Nick Saban's a guy that, you know, when he went out, I said, wow, you know, because Nick and I started here together and I just thought Nick would go till forever and. But, you know, I don't think it's any secret that I'm not saying what everybody's doing, but the process is, is making this more difficult of a job. I mean, you don't just coach anymore. You talk to agents, you talk to people, you raise money.

Grant Hill (28:56)

But Tony Bennett retires and Jay Wright retire.

Dan Patrick (28:59)

I mean, they retire good guys, too, and good coaches and good friends of mine. And I think I'm just too stubborn to retire. You know, like, I feel good, to be honest with you, Dan. I still have the energy, I still love my players. I don't love my profession, but that's three out of four on my side. So I got to deal with the profession. Like Ryan said, adapt somewhat. But adapt doesn't mean all of a sudden there's no rules, there's no accountability. I mean, what we're going through now, I mean, anytime there's a problem, just get a lawyer and fix it, you know, And I guess lawyers must be that good, or judges. But do these kids.

Grant Hill (29:43)

Do these kids ask you for money? Do they say, this is what I

Dan Patrick (29:48)

want, I Asked them for money now,

Grant Hill (29:52)

but, but, but do they. Do they have an intermediary?

Dan Patrick (29:56)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Grant Hill (29:57)

Okay.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (29:58)

Okay.

Grant Hill (29:59)

So they don't say, I'll come to Michigan State, I want two and a half million dollars?

Dan Patrick (30:03)

No, his parents and his agents say that.

Grant Hill (30:04)

Okay, but you're not involved in that.

Dan Patrick (30:07)

Oh, yeah, I am here. You know, I hear all These guys got GMs and all that. I just, I think it's great. But I think at the end of the day, the head coach is making the decisions. You know, like in the NBA and NFL, it's different because there's salary caps. Everybody knows there's transparency. If I looked at everything we're doing, Dan, the nil, the tampering, the, as you say, it's going to open next week, the transfer portal. If I had one thing I'd like to change, it would be just transparency. So we all know what everybody's making and doing, and then we're not getting lied to by everybody. Transparency would really help the profession right now.

Grant Hill (30:50)

But, okay, what if Magic Johnson said, here, I got $10 million that I'm going to give that you can use. Okay, could you use his $10 million? Do you have to report that you're using his $10 million? How does that work?

Dan Patrick (31:08)

Yeah, you sort of do. I mean, they said that was a new big rule. They were going through this clearinghouse. I don't think any of them work. You heard about Rev Share, you know, where each school is going to get 5, 6 million dollars in football programs are going to get 16, 17 million dollars. People are way beyond those at a lot of places. So that would help, but I don't think that would solve everything.

Grant Hill (31:33)

But.

Dan Patrick (31:33)

But coaching, yeah, the best players. There's a lot of programs out there have spent a lot of money and didn't even get past the first weekend. So it's not always about the money either.

Grant Hill (31:47)

No, but it feels like there's still back in the day when, you know, things were illegal and under the table, it still feels like you can do that in college athletics. You can. There's no reason why you can't do something illegal. And it's that it's going on right now just because we have this nil and, you know, transfer portal. Somebody can give somebody money if they want, or a car or a house or a job.

Dan Patrick (32:16)

100%. In my now, they wouldn't say that, but to me, the nil means pay for play. And you can just pay them to play them. And the only difference is it's it's still sort of illegal, but it's not illegal. That's. That's what's so hard. That's what's so confusing. And who, who says what's legal and not legal anymore? You know, I don't know.

Grant Hill (32:43)

Did we solve anything with this conversation?

Dan Patrick (32:46)

Yeah. I still enjoy being on your show because you're crazy. And I probably got a new grill and I get to watch Grant Hill after I'm done and Magic just gave me 10 million and we figured that. I still figured John Shire did a hell of a job and it's going to be a hell of a Final Four. There's a lot of good teams in it, but I feel good about our run this year and I feel like I fell short again. So one of these days you're gonna have me on from Indianapolis or wherever the Final four is and not from my office. So it looks so boring.

Grant Hill (33:19)

Yeah, yeah. Stop disappointing me in it in Detroit next year.

Dan Patrick (33:25)

Yes.

Grant Hill (33:26)

There you go.

Dan Patrick (33:27)

So I say that if we can get there next year, you should do your show from there.

Grant Hill (33:32)

How about, how about if you win next year, would you retire a walk off in Michigan now?

Dan Patrick (33:41)

You know what I mean? People asked me that last year because we were one step from the Final four. If you do it, you're gonna. You know, I don't have any interest in retiring right now. I don't think it would be. It would be because I'm sick of the circumstances. It's not going to be because I'm sick of coaching, sick of the players, love my university. The circumstances get to us and. But winning or not wouldn't change that.

Grant Hill (34:06)

You could walk off and walk right to the NBA, coach.

Dan Patrick (34:09)

I could walk off and rock right to my beach house.

Grant Hill (34:12)

Yeah. And right to your rec tech grill.

Dan Patrick (34:17)

There you go. And I'd be grilling like a sop.

Grant Hill (34:21)

Thank you, coach.

Dan Patrick (34:22)

Thanks, Dan.

Grant Hill (34:23)

That's Tom Izzo, Michigan State head coach.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (34:26)

Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our shows@foxsportsradio.com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to listen live.

Grant Hill (34:38)

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Dan Patrick (35:56)

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Grant Hill (35:58)

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Dan Patrick (36:05)

How's this?

Grant Hill (36:06)

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Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (36:08)

Speed up. No.

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Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (36:12)

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Dan Patrick (36:12)

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Grant Hill (36:15)

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Dan Patrick (36:27)

That's too fa.

Grant Hill (36:30)

You'll be alright. Just walk it off.

Dan Patrick (36:32)

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Mike Florio (36:44)

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Dan Patrick (36:50)

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Grant Hill (36:51)

Find exclusions and details@t mobile.com you know what they say. Early bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over $120 with VRBO. Because early gets you closer to the action. Whether it's waves lapping at the shore or snoozing in a hammock that overlooks. Well, whatever you want it to. So you can all enjoy the payoff come summer with Verpo's early booking deals. Rise and shine. Average savings $141. Select homes only. Grant Hill, hall of Famer, now part of the CBS Turner College Basketball Tournament. Action. How you feeling today, Grant?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (37:34)

I'm feeling good.

Grant Hill (37:35)

Wait, why. Why did you pause there?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (37:38)

Just a hectic, chaotic time, you know, and I. My. My alma mater lost. I have become a meme. I'm trying to Prepare for final four. There's a lot going on.

Grant Hill (37:52)

Dan, what do you see when you see yourself after the shot by Mullins? And there's you and Raph and I and Eagle. But you and Raph are both kind of stunned.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (38:06)

Yeah, I mean, we were stunned. It was absolutely incredible and almost improbable. That eight second sequence was. Was. I don't think I've seen anything quite like that in sports or at least in terms of calling a game. And so I think you're just trying to like, okay, irons all over the call. Let him do his thing. Let us try to process what just happened. And, and so I, you know, it's funny because you don't know what you look like. And then obviously they show that view and you know, Raph looks like he's, you know, he's. He's. Raph looks like how I look after a night out with him. And I'm just like stunned as well. Like, it was, it was incredible. It was incredible. And some of the memes and the talks and all, like, it's, you know, it's pretty funny. But what a moment and what an honor for all of us to be a part of that and be on the call for it.

Grant Hill (39:09)

But unlike us as fans, you're working, right? Because we can say holy whatever, like, you got to go. Okay, now I got to figure out, break down what just happened here in that moment. And I mean, you get a little bit of time because Ian will stall a little bit so you guys can kind of gather or look at a replay. But what did you see in that. If you're Duke, did Duke do everything they were supposed to do? It just Connecticut did something maybe a little better or am I being too lenient there?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (39:45)

Yeah, I mean, look, I, I think you could say it that way. I mean, look, if, if Kaden Boozer, you know, in that moment where it was able to execute that pass and somehow get it through down the court, you know, we're talking about Duke moving on and this is not an issue. Obviously that didn't happen. And in part because of the brilliance of UConn and you know, just Demery there making a. An all time play by deflecting that pass attempt. So look, there's a lot of opinions. You know, I said in the moment that all Duke had to do was hold the ball. The, the beauty and the agony of sports is that, you know, you got to play it all the way through to the end.

Grant Hill (40:27)

But the possession arrow would have been for Yukon if he just Stood there and held the ball. Then Connecticut is going to get the ball.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (40:37)

Well, look, I mean, you can say a lot of things. He could have held the ball. They could have fouled him. Maybe he goes to the free throw line. Even if he misses the free throw, at least you can set up your defense. He could have dribbled the ball and, you know, done the whole Bob Cousy thing and avoided it, but, you know, they could have done that, but, you know, maybe they steal it from him or maybe he goes off his foot. I mean, like, you know, we can sit here and analyze and break down and find fault and blame, but the reality is it's sports and, you know, anything can happen, and anything has happened time and time again. It's unfortunate, you know, because it's not all on him. Duke had, I think they had eight turnovers in the second half, 16 points for UConn in terms of scoring off those turnovers. So there was a lot of blame to go around. But I think, you know, I have to remove my. My Duke hat and really sort of wear my broadcasters hat. And, you know, we have a responsibility, we have a duty to shine a light on UConn and what they've done and doing that miraculous play at the end there and advancing on and celebrating them. And so. And I have no problem doing that because I understand what this is all about. I understand what makes March Madness special. And, and, and so, you know, I'll. I'll continue to say great things about Dan Hurley. Like I've done a lot, it seems, the last four years.

Grant Hill (42:02)

Did you notice the incident with Roger Ayers when Hurley and Ayers come forehead to forehead?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (42:11)

I didn't notice it in real time. We may have shown. We may have shown it, but I think I was sort of just you know, trying to, you know, make sure I had a pulse, but then also just take it all in. Watching the UConn celebration, the team watching Duke, and, you know, sort of the morning in that moment and, and just sort of taking it all in, in real time. So not really watching the monitor in that moment, but I've, of course, seen it after the fact. And, you know, it's. It's. It's Dan Hurley, you know, and, And I've heard people say, well, you know, you know, it could have been a, you know, it could have been a technical. It could have impacted the result. I think, you know, Ayers is one of the best in the business. He handled it right, you know, very celebratory. And it's Dan you know, and they know who Dan is. And maybe he gets a little leeway, maybe he doesn't. But, you know, I think it was funny, it was amusing. Great job by our director, Mark Grant, to capture that and that on, on the air. But I think it just showed the fullness of that moment, the celebration from the bench, UConn, their fans, their coach, and then, you know, capturing Duke and, and the disappointment, the dejection, all of that. And so that's, that's good tv, but that's also what March Madness is all about.

Grant Hill (43:36)

Talking to Grant Hill CBS Turner College BASKETBALL ANALYST now you know how those poor Kentucky fans felt when you threw the pass to Laetner, right? Now, you know that pain.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (43:50)

Well, I'm not laughing at the Kentucky fans, first of all. I'm laughing at question. You know, I think the difference, though, yes, I know what it feels like. I think the difference in that moment, you know, we were number one. Kentucky were kind of the upstarts. They weren't, they weren't even picked to go as far as they did. And that game was just one, you know, incredible play after incredible play and it was back and forth and we just so happened to have two seconds left and we were able to execute a play at the buzzer. But I think they walked out of there disappointed, obviously. But I'm sure the Kentucky faithful was proud of that group and felt like they were worthy of winning and they just came up short. I think in this case, I don't think the Duke faithful walked away proud. I think they felt like, you know what, we let that slip away. It was in our hands and there was a meltdown. And so I don't think the same feeling amongst the Duke fans compared to that of Kentucky. But to lose on a play like that, to lose on a shot like that, and you're right, Dan, look, I was on the court, I was a part of that moment 30 some odd years ago and now I'm courtside on the call for one of the. Another iconic moment. I mean, it was, it was, I guess, full circle. And you know, look, you're going to experience those highs and you're going to experience those lows and that's just part of, you know, Coach K. Coach K, who obviously a 40 year career at Duke and he had some incredible highs and he had some, some tough moments as well. And that's just part of it. You know, you got to take the good with the bad.

Grant Hill (45:40)

How do you decompress after calling a game like that?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (45:43)

I couldn't I literally could not sleep after the game. And look, I say that even if you replace Duke with, you know, North Carolina, I still would have been in disbelief because it was just as a broadcaster and you know, this, like, as a broadcaster, you. You can only, like, pray for a game like that, to have a moment like that, to have a, you know, just a play that you could never imagine occur at the end of the game. And so for us, you know, Iron Eagle, Bill Raftery, Tracy Wolfson, myself, to be on that call, you're just like, wow. And you know what's at stake? You know, an opportunity to go to the Final Four. So I was just going through it. I was like, I couldn't sleep. I was like, wow. Like, what happened? Like, did we just witness this? This is real? Of course. I was looking at all the comments on Twitter and people, you know, saying that, you know, I lost my soul. And, you know, Grant was disappointed and all, like. And it was actually, you know, you don't typically like when people come at you on social media, but in that moment, it was actually fun to see all the comments and all the. Just all the excitement, you know, and the one thing, I mean, look, UConn, I have the utmost admiration. After the game, I went out and I went on the court. You know, after we did our Internet hit, I sought out Mr. And Mrs. Hurley, Bob Hurley senior, Chris Hurley. And I was happy for them. I mean, we shared some great moments together. They're like family. Dan and Bobby's sister Melissa. And then I saw Dan and I chatted with Dan and, you know, we talked and, you know, I mean, like, I've known them for years and I was happy for them and happy for their program and happy to be a part of that moment.

Grant Hill (47:40)

Best team left in the tournament is who?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (47:43)

Ooh, that's a good one. That's a good one. So that's tough there. I mean, I think. I think Michigan and Arizona, I think it's a toss up. I did Arizona's first game this year. They played Florida, the defending champions, in Vegas. It felt like a final four game. And co opied was incredible. Kind of his coming out party, but. But Arizona's different. They gotten better Buries is now like a Murray. He didn't play great in that game. He is now a force. This team is solid, well balanced, well coached. Inside out. They get to the line like they're big. Michigan, I've seen a lot of Michigan. I did their games and the players there. I did the Big Ten tournament, man, I think that those are the two best teams, but the best teams don't always win, you know, and we've learned that. If we've learned anything, we've learned that. So. But we got some great matchups. We got, you know, we got some blue bloods, we got some. Some big teams. We got an Illinois team that is. Is unique. They're big, they shoot threes, they don't foul, but they're physical. They re. They rebound. It's such a different style of play. But anyway, I sound like a politician. If I had to pick one team, I would say I think Michigan might be the best team here. And the Duke person in me, it pains me to say that, but I think. I think Michigan might be. Might be the best team in the Final Four.

Grant Hill (49:24)

Was there a second option on the throw to Laetner against Kentucky?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (49:30)

Yeah, there were a couple other. You know, it was funny. I was. I was. I was at Duke in the preseason and I went to watch practice and I'm talking with Shire and Chris Carwell, and they're just kind of going through some scenarios and they're like, what's that play that you guys ran? Like, what was the actual play that you ran against Kentucky? And part of me was thinking, well, Coach K is upstairs. You should go ask him. But I tried to rack my brain and there was some other action, and if I couldn't get to Christian and maybe throw it to Bobby, he was the second option. But I knew coming out of that huddle that I'm throwing it to Christian and we're going to live and die with him making a play.

Grant Hill (50:19)

But that had been practiced.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (50:21)

That actual play had not been practice, but the baseball pass and sort of variations of that play. We ran a play similar to that against Wake Forest at the end of the regular season, and we didn't execute. Coach K had Latener coming from one side of the court to the other. I threw a curveball that led him to. Out to the. Out of bounds there by. By the sidelines. And so this time, he put Christian right in the middle of the court. And so good coaching on Coach K's part.

Grant Hill (50:53)

But, you know, I'm still amazed Leitner faked one way and went back. I don't know if he needed to, but it was like, wow, He. He's thinking, I might be double team. I'm going to fake one way. And he still had time to turn the other way.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (51:09)

Yeah, I mean, that was. I remember I had a great view, and when he caught it and he started dribbling I said, no, no, don't do that. Now's not the time to show your moves off Christian, you know, and. But his presence of mind, his understanding that two seconds. What I can do in that amount of time.

Grant Hill (51:26)

How about a statue of you getting ready to throw it and then Laetner, 50ft away. We put that on the Duke campus.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (51:37)

You know, I'm not opposing it. I'm not opposed to that because you

Grant Hill (51:42)

don't get credit for the throw. And your dad was a great running back. Were you a quarterback in. In high. Did you play any football?

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (51:50)

So he wouldn't let me play until I got to high school, so I'm still a little resentful about that. But we used to practice the baseball pass every day. Two man drills, warming up every day. And I used to talk so much trash because my. My baseball passes were always on the mark. And. And I'd say, it's in the jeans. It's in the jeans. I'm in the wrong sport. You know, I used to always yell that out in practice. And so I had one opportunity to show off my quarterback.

Grant Hill (52:18)

I love it. I love it. Have fun this weekend. Great to talk to you. Tell Raf and I and. And Tracy we said hello.

Sports Broadcaster / Announcer (52:26)

All right. I appreciate you, Dan.

Grant Hill (52:27)

Thank you, buddy. That's Grant Hill. You know what they say. Early bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over $120 with VRBO. Because early gets you closer to the action, whether it's waves lapping at the shore or snoozing in a hammock that overlooks. Well, whatever you want it to. So you can all enjoy the payoff come summer with Vrbo's early booking deals. Rise and shine. Average savings, $141. Select homes only. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.