The Devil You Know: Part 2

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dating Detectives

Episode: The Devil You Know: Part 2
Date: October 27, 2025
Hosts: Mackenzie Fultz (A), Hanna Anderson (B)
Guest: Abby (C)

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Overview

This episode is the second part of Abby’s harrowing true story, revealing her entanglement with an emotionally manipulative and abusive partner, “Peter.” Private Investigator Mackenzie Fultz and comedian Hanna Anderson guide Abby as she details her relationship, the escalation of coercion and exploitation, and her eventual escape—with the help of a friend. This episode dives deep into digital sexual exploitation, psychological and financial abuse, and the complexities of leaving an abuser. It’s an eye-opening discussion on modern dating dangers, coercion, and the importance of community and support systems.

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Recap & Background (01:22–03:52)

• Abby met Peter in college: He was socially awkward but seemed innocent and sweet.
• Odd behaviors early on: Claimed to have "multiple personality disorder," introduced an alternate persona “Doug,” and later alleged he had throat cancer.
• Abuse begins: Peter stalked Abby and her family after a breakup.
• Abby suffers sexual assault (by a roommate, not Peter): Peter supports her during her trauma, worming his way back into her life.
• Manipulation escalates: Peter sows doubt about Abby’s mental health, convincing her (and a therapist) that she is bipolar and needs medication—making her mentally cloudy and vulnerable.
• Financial instability during COVID: Peter stops working; Abby loses her job and supports them financially.
• Major breach: Abby discovers Peter has started an OnlyFans account in her name, using her nude images without consent.

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Key Discussion Points & Notable Moments

1. Digital Sexual Exploitation and OnlyFans Ordeal

(04:09–23:27)

• Peter reveals OnlyFans scam: Shows Abby an account with their bodies (no faces) under her real name, using images she’d shared privately.
  • “I freak out. I was raised Catholic. … My dad’s also a judge…” (C, 04:29)
• Non-consensual distribution: Peter admits talking to “hundreds of people a day” as Abby, sending her photos. She never saw messages or control of account but knows identifying tattoos make her recognizable.
  • “You should feel really violated and really bad.” (C, 06:00)
• Peter’s justification: “A bunch of women are doing this to make money, and I thought this would be a nice thing.” (Peter via Abby, 06:35)
• Coercion escalates: Financial desperation (“can’t pay rent”) leads Peter to pressure Abby into creating content. He claims a famous OnlyFans creator wants to collaborate.
• Trauma response and coercion: Abby, medicated and desperate for basic needs (feeding herself and her cats), feels she has no choice. The “meeting” turns out to be filming in a hotel room; other women involved. She dissociates completely during the experience.
  • “I was completely the opposite. I was really quiet… really trying to be as small as I possibly could.” (C, 15:04)
  • “He tells me, ‘You should feel so empowered… this is women taking back sexual power.’” (C, 16:17)
• Long-term psychological effects: Dissociation, blurry memories, stress-related illness, and lasting trauma.
• Further coercion: Peter claims a creator “Duncan” could send dangerous people after them if they quit, forcing Abby to continue making content.
  • “This is trafficking.” (A, 20:09; C confirms, 20:21)
• Host reflections: Highlight how tech outpaces law enforcement and how coercion routes through unmet needs—especially financial desperation.

Standout Quote

“Coercive manipulation, coercion. They prey on unmet needs. And in this case, it was financial instability. … You wanted to survive. And Peter preyed on that.”
(B, 21:07–21:24)

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2. Swingers Clubs, Parties, and Further Exploitation

(23:27–27:08)

• Peter pushes Abby into swinger parties for 'networking': Using “Duncan's” non-compete demands as another justification for control.
• Abby describes more dissociation: Feels sick, anxious, but shuts down emotionally and physically to get through events.
• Manipulation continues unchecked: Peter uses her bisexuality as “evidence” she should be fine with polyamory.

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3. Physical Escape & Marriage

(27:08–35:41)

• Move to New Mexico: Abby tries to reset her life, getting physically distant from Peter's network and the creators.
• Marriage: They have a large wedding, but Abby feels mentally absent. (She trips down the aisle, which hosts joke may have been a sign.)

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4. Financial Manipulation, Drug Abuse, and Peter’s Downward Spiral

(37:13–42:56)

• Family support misused: Abby’s parents loan Peter $15,000 for a business, which he squanders; he then starts charging things to her father’s credit card.
• Drug abuse: Peter begins daily LSD use, claiming “spiritual” motives and displaying cult-like thinking, including dreams of a “harem” or commune.

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5. Multiple “Throuple” Attempts and Emotional Abuse

(42:56–46:15)

• Attempts at polyamory: Tries to rope Abby's close friends (Kira, Laura) into throuples, mostly secretly and through manipulation.
• Peter isolates Abby: Uses gaslighting, lies, and pitting roommates against each other.

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6. Digital Surveillance and Control

(46:15–50:44)

• In-home spying: Peter uses “cat cams” to secretly listen to Abby and Laura’s private conversations.
  • “There’s a cat cam in the corner… He said, ‘absolutely not. … these cat cams are only visual.’ … But every time we’d have these conversations, he’d come back that night and tell us [what we’d said]…” (C, 46:15–50:44)
• Confrontation: Peter admits to listening in, feigns embarrassment, and asks for couples therapy.

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7. Breaking Free: Therapy, Support, and “Gray Rocking”

(50:44–64:31)

• Therapy illuminates manipulation: Abby’s new therapist debunks her “bipolar” diagnosis and helps her get off the powerful, mind-altering meds.
  • “When I got taken off [the medication] …it was like inching forward in clarity… I was very lucid and I was much more—Peter called it aggressive, I’d call it present.” (C, 54:26)
• Building a support system: Enlists Sam (Peter’s supposed best friend) as an in-house protector. Sam’s presence blocks Peter’s attempts at isolation and control.
• Gray rocking strategy: Abby stops reacting to Peter’s provocations, depriving him of drama and attention—slowly prompting him to suggest divorce as a “kink.”

Memorable Moment

“Peter one day came to me, and he’s just like, I just feel like things aren’t working. What if we get divorced as a kink?”
(C, 62:36; group laughs at the absurdity)

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8. Escape, Aftermath, and Moving Forward

(64:31–77:27)

• Divorce finalized: Abby escapes, with Sam’s support acting as a buffer for safety.
• Discovering more lies: Post-divorce, Abby and Sam exchange stories and timelines, uncovering fabrications about Peter’s purported trips, other relationships (even referencing a minor), and family background.
  • “[Peter] created a fake relationship and love interest with a minor…” (C, 65:14)
• Future relationships: Abby and Sam begin dating, providing Abby with a safe, supportive partnership for healing.
  • “He was showing his love in a way, even if he was never going to be with you… by providing you that safety…” (B, 73:25)
• Confronting OnlyFans: When Abby reaches out, they tell her that records are “wiped,” and she receives no justice or information.
  • “They told me that all the information from the account has been wiped. So they have no record of anything…” (C, 76:59)
  • “That is absolutely false. … I think they do not want to get sued. … I think it can be subpoenaed in a court of law.” (B, 77:27)

Notable Discussion

• Should Abby warn Peter’s new partner, a 19-year-old likely being exploited?**
  • Hosts discuss pros and cons—ultimately agreeing Abby must do what’s best for her healing, though the instincts to warn others are strong.

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9. Reflection, Advice, and Support

(74:53–76:53, 98:40–100:14)

• Advice for survivors:

  • “Talk to your people, talk to your friends, talk to your family. If you are a victim or somebody who’s trying to support a victim, you have to communicate the things that are uncomfortable.” (C, 74:53)
  • “Sometimes they roll your eyes…and they close the door… but they still hear you. …You kind of go back to that. When you’re looking for help, you kind of hear those words.” (B, 75:16)
  • “Make sure to be supportive and just like, no judgment.” (C, 76:38)

• Community matters:

  • The importance of nonjudgmental support, open communication, showing up for others, and the value of sharing these stories for collective safety and healing.
  • “A lot of people say they don’t share their story because it just sounds so outlandish. … We will. We’ll listen to you. We’ll believe you.” (B, 99:46)

On Legal Gaps and Platform Liability

• Discussion on how tech platforms like OnlyFans are failing to keep up with abuse, the lack of robust legal protections around coercion and digital trafficking, and calls for legislative and platform change.
  • “OnlyFans is supposed to be a place where it’s like, ‘Oh, giving women the right to take back your sexuality’ ... but you also have to protect the people…” (B, 85:28)
  • “The laws need to be rewritten in a way that allows for coercion and allows for the prosecution of those aspects…” (B, 87:18)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Recap & Trigger Warnings: 01:22–03:52
• OnlyFans Exploitation Revealed & Reaction: 04:09–09:00
• Escalation, Coercion, and Digital Trafficking: 09:00–23:27
• Swingers Parties & Dissociation: 23:27–27:08
• Marriage & New Mexico: 27:08–35:41
• Financial/Drug Manipulation: 37:13–42:56
• Throuple Attempts & Further Isolation: 42:56–46:15
• Hidden Cat Cam Surveillance: 46:15–50:44
• Therapy, Medication, and Regaining Clarity: 50:44–55:51
• Gray Rocking & Orchestrating Escape: 55:51–64:31
• Aftermath, New Relationship, and OnlyFans Dead Ends: 64:31–77:27
• Survivor Support & Advice: 74:53–76:53; revisited at 98:40–99:46
• Platform & Legal Gaps: 85:28–94:22

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Tone and Language

The conversation is frank, compassionate, trauma-informed, and laced with both empathy and humor—a signature of the Dating Detectives. The hosts oscillate between professional insight as investigators and warm, supportive friend energy.

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Memorable Quotes

• “This is trafficking.” (A, 20:09)
• “Coercive manipulation, coercion. They prey on unmet needs.” (B, 21:07)
• “It’s not a nice thing. No. I feel really violated and really bad.” (C, 06:32)
• “He’s completely worn me down… I just don’t have any backbone.” (C, 26:13)
• “If you are a victim or supporting one, you have to communicate—whether or not they listen, they’ll hear you.” (C & B, 74:53–75:32)
• “He weaponized mental illness.” (A, 81:48)

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Takeaways & Lessons

• Coercion is abuse—regardless of whether there’s physical force. Financial need, medication-induced confusion, and isolation were all weaponized.
• Digital platforms are fertile ground for abusers—and are failing to protect victims.
• Legal definitions lag far behind reality for online coercion and exploitation.
• Support, community, and leaving are difficult, but possible with help. Abby’s friend Sam’s practical support and unwavering presence were crucial.
• Don’t minimize your precautions. Concern about surveillance is justified.
• Victims are not alone. The value of talking, sharing, and nonjudgmental listening is immense.

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Final Thoughts

Abby’s story exposes an urgent problem: how coercion, tech, and trauma intersect in abusive relationships. It’s a testament to resilience, the power of small acts of friendship and support, and the need for legislative and institutional reform. As always, the hosts remind listeners: “Trust your intuition.”

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For resources, visit the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233.

Transcript

[A]

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-6-7233 for support.

[B]

Hi. Happy dating Detectives Monday.

[A]

And happy part two. Not happy, but we're back for part two.

[B]

Yeah. And we're literally sitting cheek to cheek.

[A]

We recorded this episode in la, and now we're recording the intro on the Friday before it comes out, and we're about to go do an escape room with other podcast hosts. But beforehand we had to get this in and we're next to each other sharing a mic.

[B]

It's a Spotify event that we're doing tonight. So I came back to la and we get to. I love recording with you, but I love. Like, we are literally sharing headphones, and I'm like, this is so.

[A]

Like, I'm sorry if I brushed my teeth.

[B]

I don't know if I did. Do I just. My armpit sting. It's fine.

[A]

It's okay. It's okay. We're all family here.

[B]

Yeah. And I know you guys are so ready for this part, too, so do we need to do a quick recap?

[A]

I can. I can do a quick recap because.

[B]

I, you know, that, you know, they want to get to it.

[A]

I always need a recap. And then, yes, fast. So we have our guest, Abby, the sweetest.

[B]

Yeah, I really. I loved Abby. I really did. I love her.

[A]

She met Peter in college, and he was a little weird, but he was, like, innocent and cute and like a.

[B]

Puppy dog in, like, the nerdy kind of way.

[A]

Then they start kind of dating. He says he has multiple personality disorder, but way he explains it is kind of like, let me introduce you to my other personality, Doug. Which we know that's not how that works.

[B]

So, like, Peter, Doug was like, let me dip my toes in. Okay, what did you think of that? Like, he was trying to, like, he.

[A]

Like, did a monologue, then he said he had throat cancer, but he was okay after that. Just some things building up.

[B]

I'm glad he was.

[A]

Well, if he had throat cancer. I hate to be that cynical, but I don't know if I buy it. And then he started getting creepy, kind of stalking her. Stalking her family and friends. So she ended it. Then later, she was raped by her roommate, another man. And that is devastating and definitely continuing to remind you that there is a lot of sexual assault. And we're going to get into more revenge porn or not revenge porn. It's not. We're going to get into some. It's a lot assault and non consensual.

[B]

Just trigger warning, trigger warning, trigger warning.

[A]

God, I don't even know where to begin. But after that horrible experience, he was the only one that really was there for her. And that's how he weaseled his way back in.

[B]

And what do you do when the one person you had this issue with and you broke up with him because you didn't trust him is the one person that is there for you when you go through this traumatic event? Like it's a mind f. Yes.

[A]

And he was much better. So for a year, it was like, perfect. All of the good things from the beginning came back, and she was like, okay, maybe we're better. He did plant an idea in her head that she had bipolar disorder, and she went and got medicated for that, which makes her pretty fuzzy. And that will continue to be a theme. And then we ended where she was kind of providing for them. They moved to a new city together. He was not working. But then she lost her job because of COVID The struggle was real. And she found out that he had started an only fans using her photos, her nude photos, her image and name, without telling her and without her consent.

[B]

So we're gonna finish the story now and let you hear the rest of it and just hold onto your seats and just try to just know. Trigger warning, trigger warning. Trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger warning.

[C]

And we're going about our life. And one day he says, hey, I want to show you the screenshot I have. And it's my face and his face, or not our faces, but our bodies on an Only Fans account. And what?

[B]

It's under my name. You and him together under an Only fans That's under your name?

[C]

Under my name.

[A]

And it's a real photo.

[C]

I freak out.

[B]

No faces, just bodies.

[C]

No faces, just bodies.

[B]

What?

[C]

She's shirtless. I'm in, like, a swimsuit, I think. And it's just a picture of the two of us on a profile. So I. I'm obviously freaking out. I was raised Catholic. Catholic girl. Raised. And so I was like, holy moly. Like, if my parents see this, I'm like, you can't see our faces. But if my parents found out about this I would freak out.

[A]

And you said it was your name. He used your real name.

[C]

He used my real name. Jeez.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

And then also just non consensually now.

[C]

Obviously, you know, and then my dad's also a judge, so. Yeah.

[B]

Because then it. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[A]

What's his defense on this?

[C]

He tells me he's been talking to, like, hundreds, like, 100 people a day as me, and he's sending my personal pictures. So no head. What pictures I had sent him. Yeah. And he's been chatting these people up as me. And I was like, can I see these conversations? Because I want to know what I'm saying. And he's like, well, I feel really weird about it. And I feel weird.

[B]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

[A]

So was he showing you as an apology or was he just like. I just want to let you know I've been doing this. That's it. What's the point of telling you?

[B]

Get Doug in here.

[C]

He has his phone, and he's just like, this is what I've been doing. And then I told him he should feel weird. I was like, you should feel really weird, and you should feel really gross.

[B]

And this is after. He's just been really nice. Everything's fine, like, la dee da. And then all of a sudden, bam. OnlyFans.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

Also, just to clarify, it is like he's sharing intimate photos, like nudes.

[C]

Yes. That's fucked up.

[B]

God.

[C]

And I have a tattoo that is identifying, and it's not by my name, but anyone who knows who I am can see that tattoo on my side.

[B]

My.

[C]

And know who I am.

[A]

No, this is. Oh, my God.

[C]

Illegal. It. It is. And so I'm working 60 hours. Is like, I can't deal with this. Pause. Stop, stop, stop everything. And he's like, okay. He's like, I'm so sorry. He goes, I just thought it. You know, I'm. I'm not making money. I just thought, a bunch of women are doing this to make money. And I thought that this would be a nice thing. And I was like, it's not a nice thing. No. I feel really violated and. And really bad. But I was like, we'll talk about this, you know? And we. We talk about it. We talk and talk. And. And he's just apologizes, and he was freaking out. Cause he's like, oh, God. I just didn't even know that this would be such a big deal.

[B]

I'm sorry. What?

[C]

What?

[A]

He knows what happened to you, first of all. So this is so traumatic. And then in general, who in their right mind thinks that this is something you can do without?

[B]

How long had he been doing this? The whole year.

[C]

I don't know how long. I have never, to this day, been able to see any of the messages or any of the photos. I know which photos. Yep. I don't have the login to the OnlyFans. And I have been trying to figure some stuff out, which I'll get to, but.

[A]

Oh, Abby, I'm so sorry. That is so.

[B]

God, and I am so sorry. How violating.

[C]

And I'm freaked out, too, still. I'm like, what if. Let's say, for some reason, he forgets to cut my face off? Like, what if one day I'm walking and somebody's like, hey, I've been talking to you online.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Or, like, tries to make a move on me or be like, oh, well, we were flirting online.

[B]

Or finding knows who your dad is and then blackmails you.

[C]

Exactly. And there are just so many variables. So he agrees to. We pause it, we talk about it, and I am just so stressed out. So I end up getting a promotion. I'm working, I'm exhausted. And this goes on for months with the medication, and then I'm laid off. So I am the only income we have, and I'm laid off because of COVID And we're at that point on the brink of not being able to pay rent. Oh, and yeah, and we've exhausted. My parents help. He won't ask his parents for help. And I'm like, oh, my God, we're going to get kicked out of the apartment. We have cats. Like, we can't be homeless. Like, we have friends in a life here. I'm panicking, and I'm calling my dad, and, like, do we have to go back home? And he says, let's just pause for a second because I think I have a solution.

[B]

Did you. You told your dad everything that was going on?

[C]

I told him that we were. I did not want to tell him about the only fans he.

[B]

Oh, he'd. He'd freak out, probably.

[A]

Did you tell anyone about the OnlyFans? Like, friends or anybody?

[C]

I didn't because I was so embarrassed about it. And my mom and I are, like, best friends, but that's still something where I'm like, no, you don't. You don't need to know about that. And I just, like, I don't know how she would have responded to it, but, yeah, I mean, my dad knew we were about to get kicked out, but he's just like, sometimes you have to learn and come home if you, you know, can't make it somewhere.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then Peter says, I have an idea. Oh, it will help us. It will help us pay rent.

[B]

I bet it's brilliant. I bet it's great.

[C]

And he said, a really famous person on Onlyfans wants to work with you. And everyone they work with makes really good money. I could set up a meeting just to chat. And I think about it, I'm on this medication and I'm like, I don't have any, any other options because I have cats to feed. I have my mouth to feed and.

[A]

Have this man child to help feed.

[C]

So I end up going really hesitantly, but I'm like this, I, I have to get food, you know. So we go to this hotel, a nice hotel, and he's like, just a chat. I go in there, lights, camera setup, and there are three people that I don't know in lingerie what waiting for me.

[A]

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[C]

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[A]

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[C]

So I'm telling him, like, this is not what we agreed to. I'm really scared about this. And he's like, okay, they have some alcohol and they're go have a drink. And he's like, we are here if we want to make money, like we have to do this. So I'm panicking. I'm not in the right headspace. And I'm like, okay, like I'll just go have a drink. I'm trying to calm down.

[A]

You're on that med. Oh my God.

[C]

So we end up making the content because we're there. And I feel embarrassed and weird that they think that they've been talking to me and setting this up.

[A]

But it's three women, and they're.

[C]

When they're asking me questions, I'm like, kind of looking at them weird, and they're like, you said you'd be open to doing X, Y, Z, and oh, my God.

[A]

So now you're in a position where you either have to be very inconvenient or make a scene or ruin this situation or. Yeah, yeah. Or just go with it.

[C]

So one of the guys there, he said, this is your first time. Let's put a mask on you. And I was like, yeah, at the very freaking least. Like, I. You know, so we make the content and I get done, and I feel so gross because I have been a monogamous girly my whole life, and I am feeling icky. We left the room, went down to our car because we had to drive all the way home. I was feeling really gross in my body, just, like, really dirty, if that makes sense. And, like, I just wanted to go home and scrub off. And at the time, Peter was really excited, so he had a huge mismatch of energy. Like, on the way home, he was super excited, ecstatic, was like, oh, this was so great. And for me, I was completely the opposite. I was really quiet. I was really trying to be as small as I possibly could at that moment because I just was feeling so gross and overwhelmed and confused and just really trying to figure out what that meant for me. And he tells me, you should feel so empowered. Like, this is women taking back sexual power. You know, like, women have to be, you know, just this one a manipulation.

[B]

To try and make you feel okay about it.

[A]

Anything starting with you should feel.

[B]

I don't, like, 100%.

[C]

And so, yeah, we made some money off of it, and I don't know how much, but this is a big content creator. And that's when a couple days later, Peter tells me that he met this super Famous person on OnlyFans. I'm talking 0.01% creator, one of the top creators on the platform named, we'll say Duncan. And he reached out to me and said that he wanted to make content. When Peter brought it up to me originally, I was really. My body, like, retracted. Like, no, I don't want to do this. But there was also this, okay, I have to do this. Like, we need the money, we need the rent. You know, there was this pull of like, I don't want to do this, but yet I feel like I'm obligated to. And it was just such an overwhelming experience of how do I get myself to be Safe, but also how do I get us to like get through? So my therapist and I have talked about this now, but I learned to almost completely dissociate from my body where I was just not present. It was just an autopilot kind of like shell at that point where I was like, I'm going to have to do these things and I'm going to have to get into a mindset where I almost turn myself off completely to be able to numb and be in the moment. Cause I really was not wanting to do this second experience and it was pushed on me. So I just had to find a way to get my body to be able to do something like that. And you know, I just kind of shut off. And that whole series of the few months where I was doing that was, was mostly a blur for probably a year.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

I meet with Duncan and Duncan's one of the kindest people I've ever met. So I feel a tad bit better about the situation. And Duncan tells me that he's managed a lot of people that make like a minimum 6k every month. And he blurs my face out and I was supposed to blur my tattoo out, but he didn't. And so I was really upset about that. But he gave me advice and said, you know, well, you can also just do feet pictures and stuff and you don't have to do anything weird. And he's like kind of giving me some advice and he's a nice guy and there's no like weird stuff. But I'm so stressed out, I end up becoming super anemic and sick from all this stress. I gained 40 pounds and I'm like, not in the spot I used to be where like I really can't get out of bed. And I tell Peter, I'm like, I can't. I literally physically can't do this. And he tells me that Duncan knows bad people and if we stop or like shot him. Uh huh. That he have people come to our house because this content we're making it at our apartment. What?

[A]

So they know where you live?

[C]

They know where we live. And the thing is, is that Duncan was so nice, but he did at one point tell me that he had somebody cross him or somebody said something to him and he was sending somebody after him. So it's.

[B]

So he's setting the, he's setting the tone for if you cross me, I'll do the same to you, basically.

[C]

And it wasn't like, well, and it's hard because I don't think it was necessarily super meant as a threat towards me, but Peter took that and he just twisted it. So I agreed to continue making the content. And apparently, again, like, I don't know how many people we had, but it got a lot of traction and made quite a bit of money for a period of time, and he was able to pay our rent.

[A]

So you're not seeing any of the money yourself. He's managing all of that. Duncan's managing some of it. And you are still feeling this fog and just showing up where you need to show up. This is trafficking.

[C]

Yeah. Yes, that word has been used. And the more I've processed the situation, the more I do feel like it is. At the time, I felt like I was just a zombie.

[A]

Yeah, no, you don't see it at the time. And I'm not saying that you should have. I just. That's.

[B]

This is our OnlyFans Pimp episode.

[A]

We. You're not alone in the dating detectives community.

[B]

Unfortunately, the OnlyFans pimp episode was very, very similar about two women who experienced a pimping on OnlyFans. And it was like.

[A]

And it's not common. No one's talking about this. And it's new, and law enforcement isn't caught up to tech and what to do to handle this stuff. And people are like, what do you mean you got forced to do only fans? How did you get forced to. And it's like, it's so important.

[B]

Coercive manipulation, coercion. They. They prey on unmet needs. And in this case, it was financial instability. You wanted to have your rent paid. You wanted a home. You were not doing well financially.

[A]

You wanted to survive.

[B]

Yeah. And Peter prayed on that.

[A]

This is a good. I'm gonna make a note for sex workers who are choosing to do only fans or sex work, this is a great reminder to vet the people you maybe meet online and work with. And if someone walks in, in your position and you think that they have consented to all this, I don't know how you do it, but you need to make sure that that's true. You need to make sure. You need to learn the signs of this control.

[B]

Because. And there's hand signs, there's silent signals you can give that would indicate, hey, I'm not. I'm not in this. So you can silently indicate to one another.

[A]

Because I know it's. I mean, people collab. You know, it's like, oh, this is another creator. Let's get together and make content. And it's like, now, we. We don't know who's behind that conversation.

[C]

And then remind me too at the end after we find out how this ends, to ask me. I just reached out to OnlyFans and I got a really weird response from them. Okay.

[A]

Writing it down.

[C]

So after we go through this saga, Peter tells me that there's a private swingers club that's super exclusive, it's a real thing, and a bunch of celebrities go to these parties. And he said that this would be a good place for us to network because essentially, A, we'd be able to keep paying our rent with these different creators and B, it's actually genuinely a place where people network, which is really interesting. And I was really wary, first of all, because no thanks. Second, because Duncan made it really, really, really clear that if we worked with him, we are not to work with anyone else for safety reasons because he's very like health wise, you know, STDs can get.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You don't say he gave you a.

[B]

Non compete, that guy.

[A]

Yeah, I mean it sounds pimpy.

[C]

Very. And Duncan was like, he's like, you don't have to work with me anymore, but I will not work with you unless you just work with me. But also he goes, I just don't ever want to get hiv, you know, anything like that.

[A]

Of course.

[C]

Well, yeah, that makes sense to me. And these swinger parties, you don't get tested, you don't know, like if you don't know the person, you don't know if they have anything. So you're going in and just kind of rolling the dice and we go to a party and this is a non sex party. It is a purely like you go there and it's just a sex positive thing. And I'm like, I'm willing to go to a sex positive thing where there is nothing going on, there's no sex. And we had to scent this location and it was just like really wild experience. Genuinely. It was kind of cool because it was only like 20 or 30 people knew this location and it was a pretty big deal. But. But he convinced me to go to another one where he's like, okay, again, like you don't have to go and have sex with these people. And he kind of told me it was the same thing. I was like, well, I enjoyed it. We just played board games and you know, you had some chips. It was good. And he's texting me relentlessly for like three or four days, all day, every day, like, hey, these are all the reasons we should go. And at that time I'm Just like, I'm so freaking tired. I'm just like, I. I need him to stop. So I'm like, okay, I'll go to this. You just need to stop talking. Like, I am exhausted 12 hours a day of just texting me, of just like, hey, we have to do it. So we go and he's like, have some drinks. And there's just this pattern of party after party getting me drunk, convincing me to swing so he could have sex with other women.

[A]

I was going to ask, is he involved in any of this content or sleeping with people?

[C]

So, yes, when we're going to the parties and when I'm having to go, like, quote unquote, network, Imagine a boulder going off of a cliff and that boulder in your stomach. That's the feeling where it just. It just. Your stomach drops and you feel sick and you feel nervous. But again, I'm just at the point where I'm just like. I mastered almost the ability to just completely turn off everything where it's just like. It wasn't sociopathic by any means, but it was what they call true dissociation, where it's just like, you're just so disconnected from your environment. So I just felt like I was there. I was physically there, I was not mentally there. And it was weird too, because the parties were, like, low lighting. So it really did feel like a fever dream. It did not feel real in any sense. And while I was on the way to these parties, I felt sick, I felt nervous, I felt anxious, my heart was beating really fast, and I'm just like, ready to vomit. But once we got there, it's almost like my body was ready to just like, boom, like, disconnect.

[B]

He got you medicated so that you'd be easily malleable. You could. He could shape you and get you to do whatever he wanted.

[C]

And at this point, I'm pretty much submissive to him. I just don't have any backbone because I've just been worn down. And a couple months later, he flies me on my dream trip where I've always wanted to go to Hawaii, to Maui specifically. And we go to Maui and we get engaged on top of a volcano. It is literally picturesque, romantic. It is incredible. It is one of the coolest experiences of my life. And he's showering me with love and affection. He does not talk about any swinging. Anything. Anything crazy like that is just about me. And he lets my parents know, and my dad says he's not excited, but they're like, okay, well, this is, you know, they don't know any of what's going on. So they're like, well, support her. And for my family, there's not this happy, energetic, like, woo, you know, that you usually would get. And he. So he proposes, we're engaged.

[B]

Because they don't like this guy, right? Like, you're. You're pretty sure they don't like this guy.

[C]

Yeah. With the Sony stuff and their dad running over, they're just like, just something's not right. I go back to Nashville and I continue to get sicker and just gain a bunch of weight. So we slowly, over six months, decided to move to New Mexico. And it was my original idea because where we were living was so expensive and Even with the OnlyFans money, we need food, we need cat food, we need all of the things. And I was like, this is just not a good environment. Like, this feels stressful. We're not in a good spot. What if doing a refresh, trying somewhere new. What if we try that? And originally he was like, no, I want to be here, work on my music. But after a couple months of things between the two of us not doing so great, I think that that was a, you know, he didn't want to lose me or control of me. And that was a sacrifice that I think, quote, unquote, sacrifice he was willing to make. And when we're thinking about kind of the closing of the OnlyFans chapter, it was a small dwindling, so I was anemic. It's the start of me getting these chronic illnesses that I'm still stuck with. So you can just imagine how horrible I was feeling at the time. And with the weight, 40 pounds of weight gain, it didn't necessarily take me out of OnlyFans, but it made me not really the ideal target. And I hate saying that because I really am like, want to be so body positive. But for some of these creators I was meeting with, that was the standard which they wanted. And so in a way, I kind of lucked out by gaining some weight and not being this ideal candidate and being able to be like, okay, we're moving. I'm not doing well. I'm able to kind of break away really slowly, pull back piece by piece. And even though Peter was like, oh, this creator is so dangerous by moving, we weren't cutting that tie. We weren't crossing him in any way, but we were moving so far away from him that it would be really impractical for him to come out to us to make this content. So I like to say I kind of like lucked out by being able to pull away physically as well and putting so much distance between us and these creators. We where just like it wouldn't work and they wouldn't come out.

[A]

I am so excited that this podcast is sponsored by Sous Videe. That's S U V I E and it is the kitchen robot that will blow your mind. I am very genuinely obsessed with my sous vide. It's a smart countertop oven and it also has a flexible meal delivery service. But overall it just saves you hours in the kitchen every week and it's so, so cool and it works so well. Let me tell you how it works. So this is kind of your all in one. You've got an air fryer, you've got slow cooker. It has 15 cook modes and you can pretty much use it to cook any recipe. It has a top shelf and a bottom shelf that you can do two different temperatures, two different types of meals. And my favorite part is the built in refrigeration so you can put in your ingredients in the morning and tell the genius Suvi that you want it done by 7pm and then it will keep everything cold until it's time to cook and have it all ready for you right when you need it. So you don't even have to be home to start cooking. And then if you use their meal delivery service, the ingredients which are so yummy, they come with a tap to cook technology. So you get a little card, you tap it on the sous vide and it's like, I got it. I know what to do. You don't have to do any settings. It's very good if you're like me and kind of not great at timing or following directions. It's so easy. I've also just found myself cooking more, cooking healthier. I'm roasting vegetables just to have as a healthy snack because it's just so easy to pop them in. And I really don't think I would.

[C]

Do that without the sous vide.

[A]

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[C]

So funny story.

[B]

When I was in college, I opened a credit card because they were like, hey, have a credit card. And I was like, all right, cool. I thought it was free money. Like what? It's not free money, you guys. And so if I could give myself.

[C]

Any advice when I was younger, it's.

[B]

Take care of your credit now because when you're 41 years old, you're not going to be stressed about finances. Anyways, my point is take care of your credit. And a great way to do that is with Ava. Ava is a credit building app that makes it so easy to improve your credit fast so you can get better rates on loans, pay off debt faster, and keep more money in your pocket. Getting a secured card can take months, but you can be approved for AVA in five minutes and get credit up to $2,500. Pay for existing bills and subscriptions automatically. No credit check, no interest and no hidden fees. It's just an easy tool that helps you build your credit behind the scenes. And most members see their credit go up in less than a week. So Ava reports your on time payments to all major credit bureaus every single day. So it'll help you build your solid credit history quickly. And the longer you stick with Ava, the higher your score can go. It's really, really easy to use. I use it and I really like it. Take control of your credit right now. Download the AVA app. Spelled a V A today and when you join using our promo code Dating20, you'll save 20% for your first year, monthly or annual. Your choice. Again, get the AVA app and use our promo code Dating20 so they know you heard it from us. And get 20 off whatever plan you choose for up to a year. Use our promo code dating20. Thanks to Ava. And now go get yourself some good credit.

[A]

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[C]

So after about like six months, we ended up moving to New Mexico next to one of my childhood friends, Kira. When we moved to New Mexico, we got married. Shortly after we ended up moving. It was a big wedding. There were 300 people there and. And I fell on my face. Oh, no. Going down the aisle, we made our big grand entrance and I tripped, which is kind of typical for me.

[A]

Typical but also a sign perhaps.

[B]

A sign perhaps.

[C]

So I like, had this picture. My only picture I posted was me, like laughing and falling. It was a pretty nice day overall. There wasn't anything weird. Some of his groomsmen had some weird energy and I didn't understand why. But that's when I meet Sam, Peter's best man and remember that name because he's gonna come up later. So we move to New Mexico. We're next to Kira. He starts getting really obsessed with Kira. He always Kind of has, like, November.

[B]

Of course he did.

[C]

And he's talking to her every day, like, texting her. And he's like, well, I'm just a guy who, like, I really like having friends that are girls.

[B]

I'm literally just a guy.

[C]

Just a guy. Okay. And my parents, out of, like, trying to support me, he says he wants to open a business. He actually has a fantastic idea for the business. My parents say, we have some money set aside. We're willing to give you a small loan to start your business because we want to make sure.

[B]

Who said that to him?

[C]

My parents.

[B]

Your parents?

[A]

Because they're getting married. They're like, okay, we're getting married.

[C]

Future. Yep. They want to set us up for a good future. And they don't know everything that's going on, of course. So they give him $15,000 and he blow it all. And he starts. So he has my dad's credit card number because he had to buy something. So he starts charging things to my dad's credit card.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

And my dad doesn't notice because he has automatic pay on his credit card. So he's not checking his statement, not at least at first. And then he claims he has this revolutionary technology. So this is around the same time Peter started doing acid every single day.

[B]

What?

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

Every single day. Which now I know. I. So I've heard you're supposed to wait, like, a month or something between when you do it.

[A]

So is he, like, fully doing a lot every day? Like, he's just tripping all day every day?

[C]

He is, and he did. And this is my estimate, probably underestimating at least 100 tabs in, like, three months.

[A]

That is not good for anybody involved.

[C]

Holy shit.

[A]

I can't even imagine the effect that has.

[B]

Well, three months is 90 days. That's at least once a day.

[C]

Yep, it was almost every single day. Maybe there were a day or two sprinkled. And he didn't do it. So he started doing acid because, A, he got money from OnlyFans, and he had done it a few times before we moved so back, like, when we were in college and we had met. But it was nothing like what he was doing at the time. So he said it was for spiritual reasons and he wanted to get past some of these big traumas that he had. But he kept doing it because he said it made him feel good and it would reset his brain. And then once he started doing it consistently, he used it almost like somebody would use Adderall because he felt like it gave him better, like, attention and focus. And obviously, he couldn't get a substance like Adderall because he didn't have adhd, but he had access to acid, so that's what he used to try to get himself motivated. And as you do more and more of these hard drugs, your brain starts to get a little more fried. And I think that that's kind of what happened. He just fried his brain consistently. He was having trouble remembering things that were happening. I would say something to him, and he would have no recollection of me saying, you know, like, hey, I'm gonna go do this thing. He'd come back and was like, where were you? And I'm like, I literally just told you, I'm going to Target.

[A]

And are you working in an office?

[C]

I am.

[A]

Okay. So you're not home all the time?

[C]

No. And I don't know how much he's doing it. He said he's, like, trying to be spiritually aligned, and he's getting really into spirituality and acting a little like cult leader.

[B]

Y. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that track.

[C]

Yeah. So he, for example, would say that he wanted to be a part of a harem, I think the term is, where it's, like, one man and many women. And so when I say cult leader, I mean he was trying to take his spiritual beliefs and have us adopt those spiritual beliefs. And his goal was to have some type of commune or something where he, like, indoctrinated these people into his beliefs based on all these acid trips. I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, but he essentially wanted to take us and bring us into a compound and get us to, like, adopt all of his beliefs and just stay with him. But long story short, he essentially does the same thing to Kira that he did to me. Not with the OnlyFans, but with the Love Bombing, where he was just completely taken by her. He was giving her gifts, he was praising her, drawing her in, convincing her.

[B]

He's still with you. Do you know that he's doing this for her?

[C]

I did not know until she told me later.

[B]

How much later, Kara?

[C]

Probably three months had gone by, I would say. And, like, it's not like we were best friends. We were friends, so.

[B]

But she knew you were with him.

[C]

She thought that he was just, like, that type of guy that is just.

[A]

Like, really kind, friendly dude.

[C]

Again, he just has this, like, innocence to him. And he convinced her as well. She wanted to do, like, yoga and theater as well. So he convinced her he could get her with the right people and Then he asked us to be in a throuple with him.

[A]

How did he ask that?

[C]

He talked to her separately, which I was very upset about. On both of their ends about. They both kind of had feelings for each other. And then he manipulated me into trying to say, well, you know, I am bisexual. So he thought that, well, you're bisexual, so you should have another girl in the relationship.

[B]

That's not how you're really bisexual. Or did he make you say that?

[C]

Because I am actually bisexual.

[B]

Okay. So he said, well, you're bisexual, so this is fine.

[C]

Yeah. So I was like. And I end up talking to her and just being like, look, like, I'm gonna be real with you.

[B]

Not interested.

[C]

I'm not interested. And all these things he's telling you are not true. Like, he is saying that he has all this money that his business is doing well. I was like, he doesn't have anything going on. And I said, I'm not poly. Like. So the situation ends. Her and I stay friends. Not close, though. Well, I'm like, we'll stay friendly. We've known each other for a long time. But she's super weirded out with Peter because she kind of gets a low down for me.

[A]

How are you feeling about him in this moment?

[C]

Are you like, dude, I'm still on medication, but I'm. I'm annoyed. I'm annoyed with him because he's trying to say he's doing it for me. And I know that's not true. So I'm just kind of.

[B]

During that time, did you ever think, man, this medication is really making me all loosey goosey, not give a crap and not realize, or did you not realize it at the time?

[C]

I didn't realize any of this like, that any of this was like a red flag because I was just so zonked. Yeah.

[B]

So the medication, did it make you. It made you, like, kind of zombified a little bit? Like, you're like, meh, it's fine.

[C]

Yeah. I'm naturally more energetic.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And it just made me completely flat. Like there was no personality. And my dad even had said something to me and he was just like, you just don't seem like yourself. And I was just like, yeah, well.

[A]

I just moved my relationship. You can make excuses for that behavior.

[C]

And so he tried to keep getting Kira to come back. She clearly, she started dating someone else and he was bent out of shape about it. And then Laura and I, from the beginning, started talking again, just as friends. Cause she reached out. She was such a Good friend at one point, and her and I are talking, and she ends up going through a breakup and moving in with us in New Mexico.

[A]

Were you, like. Did you feel at all weird about that because they had their past?

[C]

Honestly, no. Because she was so uninterested in him, I felt very okay.

[B]

Why do you have to keep living with your exes? Your ex and the exes?

[C]

I know. It was just temporary. She was going to live in New Mexico, too. So she was just like, I'm just going to stay here. Ended up being like four or five months. And Peter starts trying to get Laura in a throuple with us. And at first, he's doing it when she's drunk late at night when I'm asleep, because I have. I'm the only one working at this point. And eventually she goes, hey. Like, I'm usually hungover, but I do remember last night, like, he asked me if I had feelings for him. He kept asking. And he's telling me that the three of us are destined to be together.

[B]

Oh, Jesus.

[C]

And I'm like, bro, what are you talking about, bro?

[B]

That's the acid, man.

[A]

Yeah. For real.

[C]

And Peter would essentially say he was so spiritually attuned and he just, like, knew what was going on, and we couldn't possibly comprehend the universe's plan for us.

[B]

Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[A]

Well, so culty.

[C]

But Laura and I go out shopping one day and she stops me and she says, we need to have a conversation. Do you wanna be a part of this marriage? And she says, I think Peter thinks you're really stupid and he's lying to you and he's gaslighting you. And I'm seeing this. And she's like, every time that he tells you one thing, he comes and tells me the opposite. And then has us talk and pits us against each other.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

He clearly does not care what is going on in your life. So we end up talking, and, you know, his plan doesn't work. Yep. And he's trying to buy Laura's stuff off my dad's credit card. And Laura's weirded out. She's like, she has a job, right. After a week of moving to New Mexico, and Peter still doesn't have a job, like, a year later.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And she ends up moving out because she's so uncomfortable. He's trying to hit on her. She can't take it anymore. And I encourage her to leave. I was like, please get out of here. Like, this is getting really weird.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So Laura and I, while she's Living with me are having heart to heart conversations sitting on my couch. And at the time, we both are clocking that there's a cat cam in the corner. It's up, so it's looking down on where we would sit on the couch. So we had asked Peter. We're like, this has no sound, right? Like, we just, you know, we're having these girl talks. And he's like, absolutely not. No sound. These cat cams are only visual, especially this one specifically, don't worry. Plus, if it ever records, it makes a little like bing sound and it turns red. And we're like, great. So her and I are talking, having conversations about whether I'm happy in the relationship, how I'm doing mentally and physically. She's checking in on me and asks me straight up one day, like, do you want to stay in this relationship? And we'd have that conversation. And then Peter would come home and say, hey, can I talk to you? And he almost parrots what I was saying or what Laura was saying to me. And I thought that was a little strange. We were talking about that earlier today. He's like, well, I just had this big spiritual insight. You know, I'm just really connected with the divine and with source. And I just felt like you weren't happy, like, what's going on? So I would tell him, you know, the same thing. I would tell him, like, yeah, these are my concerns. He would talk in circles until I didn't really know what my concerns were. And then we move on, same, another conversation. And every time we'd have these conversations, he'd come back that night and tell us, hey, like, I feel like you guys aren't happy, or I feel like this is going on. And it's the same exact conversation that Laura and I just had. And we just both thought that was really weird. But again, we had no evidence that he was doing anything weird. So she ends up leaving and we're talking on the phone and I'm having this phone call. She's on speakerphone. I'm walking around my apartment and she's asks me, do you want to stay? And I'm double checking again because I'm just really worried with everything that I saw now that I'm out of the apartment, reflecting on it, talking to people about it, I'm really concerned about you and that these are huge problems that I have seen day to day. And I say, I don't know, I think I'm considering leaving Peter. And two minutes after that, I get a phone call, call from Peter in the middle of the day. Which is weird. So I was like, hey, I'm just gonna put you on hold for a second. And I answer the phone, and he's like, hey, can we talk? And I was like, sure. And then he was like, so I'm checking on the cats, and it happens that the volume is working. And I hear you say that you're not happy and you're thinking about leaving me. And I was like. You said, there's no microphone capability on this. And he's like, well, there is, but it doesn't really work a lot of the time. I said, so what did you hear? And so he references two points in the conversation that are like, beginning and end. He's like, I only popped in for a second. And I said, well, those are two completely different parts of this conversation. If you popped in, you wouldn't have heard both of those pieces. And I'm thinking back as we're talking, and I know that these conversations that Laura and I have had, you've probably been listening in. And he's like, well, you know, I've had some moments where I've listened in. And I was like, so why did you lie to me and tell me that you couldn't hear us? Like, just be honest and say that you're listening in or you're checking in. Because now I feel really violated. And I feel, like, naked. Like, I. Everything that I thought, like, I'm talking to my dad on the phone and my mom. And conversations that are supposed to be private, and you're just listening to them. And he's like, yeah, I feel really embarrassed about it. And I was like, I need to hang up the phone. Cause I'm really upset and really violated right now. And when I got off the phone with him and called Laura back, and we were going through all these different conversations that we'd had and realized that the spiritual connection. And, like, it was in the back of our head. That's when we realized, like, every single conversation we had had while she was there for, like, six or seven months with us that he was probably listening in on.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

So I'm freaked out. And that's when he breaks down crying and suggests we go to couples therapy.

[B]

Oh, for the love of the lamb.

[C]

He's like, I am. I messed up. I'm so bad. And there is this pressure and embarrassment and shame and thinking about divorce for me, because, again, my parents are Catholic. And I'm just like, I don't want to be in this. But if there's a way that, you know, I'm already. I had just gotten married, like, not even a year before that, and I'm like, how embarrassing and shameful would it be for everyone to come to this wedding, give me gifts? And then a couple months later, oh, this is already crashing and burning. So I was like, I'm willing to do couples therapy. And so as I'm talking to my couples therapist and hearing the way that he's talking about me, I'm kind of realizing in that moment that there is no way that he's just going to sign divorce papers. There's no way. And I know he will fight tooth and nail because at that point, I am financially, emotionally, physically taking care of him. And if that gets pulled away, he has nothing to do. And so when you get people so desperate in those situations, that's when things happen. Like, they come and try to get violent with you, or maybe they. My dad's had a real concern that he's maybe gonna snap and kill me because he's just so unhinged at this point and panicked. And if you have everything hinging on one person and that one person's like, nope, I'm out. You just don't know what's gonna happen, especially with all of the other stuff. And our couple's therapist hates him, of course, hates him. And he is so bent out of shape that she does not like him. He does not care that I'm expressing these feelings. He just texting me these paragraphs about how she's out to get him, and she does not like him. And she's not being, like, objective.

[B]

He's a victim.

[A]

They hate when people tell you what you did. Mm.

[C]

And so this is the point where I start seeing a new therapist. And when I went to talk to this therapist, new therapist, she asked me why I was on that specific med. She's like, this is an anti seizure medication. This is a pretty serious medication to be on. And I was like, yeah, well, you know, I was diagnosed bipolar. And she's like, by who?

[A]

You're like, my psychotic husband or husband. Yeah.

[C]

I was like, well, you know, my husband kind of hinted at it. And then we went to the therapist and they gave me the bed and they just said, yeah, that sounds right. And she goes, okay, well, can I go through a questionnaire with you? And I said, yes, like a real one. A real one. And so she asked me hyper specific questions, and I was like, no, no, no. And she's like, yeah. I personally, in my professional opinion, do not Think you have bipolar disorder. And I was like, are you serious? And she's like, yes. Like, you have anxiety for sure.

[B]

It's just.

[C]

But like, do you have bipolar too? Absolutely not. And she goes, you don't have these, like huge manic states. And I was really relieved. But it also was a really empowering because it's like, aha. I knew I wasn't crazy.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Like, some of these things I've been doubting because I was worried I was bipolar. I was like, no, okay, I am not crazy. Again, these are real things that I've been worried about. And I'm not manic and I'm not aggressive. I'm just really just feeling my feelings. Yeah.

[A]

And you can go back and look at everything and be like, wait a minute. I wasn't crazy. I wasn't wrong or dramatic or.

[C]

It's really affirming for me.

[A]

Yeah, good.

[C]

And I get off of this medication finally.

[A]

Ooh.

[C]

So when I finally got taken off this seizure medication, which was a whole tapering process because it's a really dangerous medication, it was like inching forward in clarity where my mind and body just weren't connected at all. And suddenly I was living in my own reality, which sounds bonkers. But all of a sudden I was, like, aware of my surroundings. I was really clear headed. And moments where I was like, wait, what? And I couldn't follow or track conversations. I was just very lucid. I was very lucid and I was much more. Peter called it aggressive. I would call it just present. And those were the moments where I was able to be like, oh, like, yes, I'm understanding. And tracking that you are trying to twist my words or talk in circles. And that was my moment to be like, pause. What are you trying to say right now? And so I was able to track the conversations and not get confused, which just felt so good and validating to me. And because in the back of my mind I was like, oh, all these things are happening. Or, oh, I know I'm right. But I couldn't really argue my way to the point where I was like, no, I'm right. And I was finally able to catch up with him and keep up with him so he couldn't completely bulldoze me. And Peter tells me he wants me to. This is out of nowhere, have sex with his two best friends.

[B]

What? And I'm like, are they guys or girls?

[C]

Two guys. Two guys.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And I say, I'm not doing that. That's insane. So we're playing Fortnite and I'm having fun with the two guys as friends. They're good guys. And I get to know his friend Sam pretty well, and Sam starts admitting that he feels really weird that Peter asked him to be his best man. Because he's like, I didn't know you that well. I didn't even know you existed until he asked me to be his best man. Cause Peter's like, this is my best friend. We've known each other for five years. And Sam's like, we've been in the same room twice in our entire life.

[B]

Oh my God.

[C]

I was like, how does your best friend not know that your fiance exists? Dude. Okay. What? So I start telling Sam sometimes when it's just the two of us, he's like, how are you doing? And I start telling him some of these things about Peter, and he's like, that is so weird you said that. Because I heard the same story, but the complete opposite. Like, that it was your fault or.

[A]

That, like, you wanted to sleep with his friend.

[C]

Yeah. And that my friend Laura, that we kicked her out because she was trying to kill herself. That's what he told Sam. That, like, oh, you know, Laura was trying to break up our relationship and she was trying to kill herself. And so that's why we had to get her out of the house. And I was like, what? Like this. Everything I knew. And Sam would be like, oh. And he told me this and he told me this. And all of these lies started making sense where I was really understanding what was going on because I was getting his side of everything.

[A]

I was thinking when you were talking about Sam and how great he was, I was like, how does he have this great girlfriend or wife? He has these great friends. Like, where is he getting these great people?

[C]

That's what I.

[B]

He's not. He's delusional. Mm.

[A]

So you're putting it together, but you're married.

[C]

Yeah. So we're already married. But I'm starting to have more conversations with Sam. Peter wants to get a three bedroom. I said, we can't afford it. And so he's like, well, what if Sam moves in?

[B]

Oh, here we go.

[C]

Uh huh. So he's like, you know, Sam can move into the third bedroom and pay rent. He's gonna move to where we are anyway. And just temporarily. I was like, if he's gonna help pay the rent, fine. He got three bedrooms.

[A]

Does Sam even want to? After the conversation, like, you guys know this guy's a compulsive liar.

[C]

So Sam and I. Does Sam know he's moving in.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Sam and I have a conversation and he is like, you know what? Maybe for your safety should move in. And I was like, you know, you're right. And so I was really kind of worried because I was like, if I'm working on trying to get out of this, there's no way without another person present that this is going to end well. Like there is a, a non zero possibility that this guy breaks and tries to kill me.

[A]

So you, are you in your mind now trying to get out of the marriage? Yeah.

[C]

So after Sam and I make this plot, I'm really thinking, I'm like, okay, this is when it becomes really real for me. I'm off the medication. I'm realizing, you know, a little bit more clear headed. I'm looking back on all of this and I'm like, oh my God, I'm insane much trouble. And I'm in so deep right now.

[B]

Because now you've gotten married, now you're.

[C]

Legally tied to this guy and anything I do he has criticism of. And I'm just like, why have I been putting up with this for so long?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And so Sam moves in and Sam starts kind of like being a wall against Peter for me. So we're, he's like, you and I are going to do our regular thing. We're gonna make dinner, we're gonna go.

[B]

Sam's on a mission.

[C]

Sam is on a mission. He is like literally an amazing person. He is like, he can come in the room if you have a conversation, you text me, you call me and you put me so I can hear, so I know that he's having a conversation with you. So Sam is determined. He is really weirded out that Peter's talking to me the way he is.

[A]

And have you guys decided, like, I'm gonna save this much money and then I'm gonna tell him I'm getting divorced and I'm leaving. Like, do you have a timeline in place?

[C]

I have to start convincing him to sign a divorce paper. So that's my first thing. So I'm talking to my parents and Sam and my cousin and anyone that I know, I'm like, how do I do this so that I can get him to divorce me? So I start gray rocking him.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Please tell. Yeah, this is, it's come up before, I think.

[C]

Yeah, but tell everyone essentially when you have somebody bids for attention or does something wacky like he would do and you don't give them any response. So you know earlier how he said he got somebody pregnant and I said, oh, cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, that's kind of gray rocking, where.

[B]

You just say, okay, you're not responding the way they want you.

[A]

That you know, because that's what they want. They want you to get mad. They want you to give them attention. Okay.

[B]

Gray rocking.

[C]

So I'm talking to my therapist and I'm like, how do I do this? And she goes, you're gonna have to be really kind of sneaky with it because you can't get him to blow up at you, but you need him to know this relationship is over. So I talked to Sam, and Sam is like, yes, like, I will help you. I am more than happy to do this. I do not like this guy. Let's do this together. So the twice the gray rocking, he's gonna feel horrible.

[A]

And that does scare me about not to just gray rocking. I. I know they say it's like the only way to deal with a narcissist in a way. However, I get so nervous where it's like, you do need the person to stay level. You don't want to set them off. And it's like, you always be nice.

[B]

And make sure that they're maintaining. Like, they're not mad at you. Like, you don't want to anger them.

[A]

Because gray rocking can anger them. And that scares me. It's a tricky situation. I don't know. I don't know.

[C]

Luck. Luckily, this did start working where he would stop engaging as much because whenever he's mad, he would have pulled me out for two or three hour conversations.

[B]

Oh, God.

[C]

So I would stop responding. I would stop fighting him. I would stop disagreeing with him.

[A]

So now it's just a one hour conversation.

[C]

Yeah. And then every time he would pull me in the room or pull me somewhere, Sam would just happen to show up and sit right between us.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Thank God for him.

[B]

How did Peter Doug handle it?

[C]

Oh, he hated it. He was like, why are you here? And he goes, well, I just think that I, as a member of the household, should be a part of a conversation.

[A]

Didn't you want to throuple?

[C]

Didn't he want to.

[B]

You wanted him here so bad, Like.

[C]

And so Peter one day came to me, and he's just like, I just feel like things aren't working. What if we get divorced as a kink?

[B]

No. What.

[A]

What if we get divorced as a king Darn.

[B]

Okay, that sounds sexy. I'll sign it.

[C]

I was like, oh, man, that would be funny.

[A]

So wait, so is he asking it like, I still want to hook up with you we're just going to get divorced, and that's going to make it sexier. Uhhuh.

[C]

Huh. And he's like, and the divorced sex would be so good. And I was like, oh, yeah, totally. Like, that sounds amazing. That sounds like a great idea.

[A]

Are you, like, so excited in your head, like, finally?

[C]

I'm so excited. And this is May. June of last year.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yep. And so we end up getting papers filed, and we get him to move out by just like, Sam's like, we're gonna do everything together. We're gonna cook together. We're gonna, you know, go for a walk. We're just gonna, like, you know, line up. He worked from home. I worked from home. He goes, so he cannot get in your space.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He goes, so if he comes. Yeah. So I was like, that is a awesome idea. And so we like to joke now that Sam kind of saved my life because we were really worried about my dad. Was like, there was a non zero chance that he could snap. But Sam was just there, and he just kept the energy real light. Like, he was like, this is normal. He de.

[A]

Escalated. Damn, Sam.

[B]

Good job.

[A]

We'll get to it. I got it.

[C]

And then essentially, how we unthink this chapter is we divorce, we finalize, and then he uses my credit card after we're divorced, months after. So I ended up kind of cussing him out a little. And then not too long ago, Sam and I started dating. I was shy.

[B]

I was like, did you date him?

[C]

Yep, Just months. We did some healing. And I mean, he is literally probably the reason I am okay. Because he's the reason I'm telling my story, because he told me one day. He's like, this is such a traumatic story for you. You need to go tell this. So other women.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So other women, period. So other women.

[C]

And so it's just.

[B]

So.

[C]

It's just been, like, really. It's been really interesting because I've uncovered so many lies post divorce that Sam and I have gone through the first month where we lived together. We just sat down and we're like, let's go through a timeline of things that have happened that you know and I know, and let's compare notes. And it was just wild.

[A]

Give us, like, the top three.

[C]

So I never 100% found out that he moved to London, but there was no evidence whatsoever, not even a picture on his phone to prove that he went to London. And I think that it would be highly unlikely to go to a different country for the first time and not take a Single picture. So you might remember Lily, who Peter said he visited at London and had gotten her pregnant. So what I found out about Lily is that Lily is a real person, but he did not go see her. So Peter knows Lily through that same program that, like music camp that he found those other contacts through. So Lily at this time would have been under age, under 18, when he would have visited her and got her pregnant. And she is a real person because he was so specific with the name that she uses and the name that her real name. And there is a person that meets all those criteria. So I feel really weird about it because I found her actual Instagram profile. I did some sleuthing. I found out through a series of, like, you know, profiles who this person is. And the fact that he created a fake relationship and love interest with a minor is so super alarming to me. I did find out that he is not a music producer. He has access to software that you can edit music on, but he does not do anything professionally. He does everything recreationally. So he does not work for Sony. He does not work for any big music company. And he said that verbatim to me that he was just trying to impress me. Also, he told Sam. Peter told Sam that Peter's mom was the number one exotic vet in the country, and she was a vet receptionist in real life. Doug.

[A]

Maybe Doug's mom was the exotic nephew.

[C]

Maybe it was Doug's.

[B]

Poor Peter.

[C]

He's confused. And that. That people were after us, too. That was Sam's other favorite because he's like the mob. Yeah. Like, he wouldn't elaborate either. He's just like, people are after us, man. Oh, my brother just told us, too, recently that Peter had texted my brother and said that he was getting severed fingers in the mail. That's what he was telling my family, like, during when he was doing his streaming.

[B]

They were Doug's.

[C]

It's like, what? So people have came forward and just told me. Real wacky. They were Doug's fingers.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

What? Okay, so you get him to sign those divorce papers. Take us.

[B]

No, he got her to sign.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

It's his idea.

[A]

So just.

[C]

Was he.

[A]

How did you, like, immediately move on.

[C]

From all of this?

[A]

What did you do?

[C]

So. So I feel like mentally I left the relationship months before, of course, but I did a lot of therapy, and my family was really like, oh, you need to heal. You need to heal. And I was like, I've been healing.

[B]

So they were supportive.

[C]

They were support. Oh, my God. They wanted me to leave so bad. And there was actually we had a little party when we finalized everything.

[B]

Divorce.

[A]

Divorce brain.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So how much do you tell your family and how is that conversation?

[C]

So they don't know everything. We've talked through things. As things have gone on, I don't necessarily feel awesome about them knowing everything because I feel like there's just so much of a question for people who don't understand my mindset of like, well, why didn't you leave? And I comment that question. Yep. And you just don't understand if you're not in it. When you're completely submissive and zoned out and you are worked to the brim, you just don't have any energy and you can't like, process fastest things.

[B]

Took everything from you.

[A]

It seems you phrased it like he wore you down into submission. Is very common. Very, very common.

[C]

Well.

[B]

And he had at. He saved you from this. The probably the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you. He came along and saved you and spent a year proving himself. So he rebuilt that trust. And now she's like, man, he's showing consistency. For a whole year, this guy put in the work. So I can trust. Right. Like you're like this.

[A]

I can trust him and I can put up with one or two moments of relapse.

[B]

And so, like, if he. If I'm doing these things that. That I don't like, I mean, he really did save me. So. Right.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Was there any moment of that where you're like, well, I gotta stay with this guy. Like, he saved me.

[C]

There was a lot of that. Especially when the only fan stuff started. Cause that was like the first kind of before all this happened where I was just like, you know, like, I'm mad, but this guy just have saved me from getting again from, you know, having Finn attack me from some really traumatic things happening for. For me. So I like, would it willing to not excuse, but step back and think and be willing to hear his side on things.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because he saved me.

[B]

And then for the next year, he was consistent in his safety and comfort for you. Mm.

[C]

And he was normal. So I knew there was that normal peace probably somewhere in him.

[A]

And you're just hoping it comes back. Mm. Wow.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I have a couple questions about the OnlyFans stuff. Please feel free to skip some. You know, like, this is so much. You survived a rape and then this comes up. Yeah. And like, was there any feeling of your body was already not your own? Like going into these positions where they're kind of coercing you into porn and all of these things that you're not like you're saying this meds kind of shut you down. I just could imagine that you're like, fuck it. Like, what? Like, I've already lost this battle.

[C]

So I felt like after the first time with the onlyfans stuff was essentially like, in a way, not complete rape, but something adjacent to that.

[B]

Because you still didn't want it.

[A]

No, it was not enthusiastic consent, right?

[C]

It wasn't. And so after the first time, it was like. And I think I've heard other women say this, but it's just like you let it happen and you just completely dissociate from your body.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Because you don't feel safe. You can't really. You don't have any control. So you're like, well, this has happened to me, and I know I can get through this, but I just have to dissociate. So I was just kind of dissociated and numb from it. And to be all really honest with you, it took me probably six or eight months after the. Even the divorce to feel safe in my body still.

[B]

Wow, man. Whenever you did find connection again with Sam to be intimate again, was it hard?

[C]

Yeah, it was so hard. And I luckily have the world's best person with me. And when I told him that because I was, like, really embarrassed about it, and he was just like, I will literally am fine if you feel like we need to hold hands, if we just need to, like, sit next to each other. If you just need time where you need to re regulate your nervous system. I don't care about the intimacy stuff as much as I care about the fact that you're regulating yourself. You're getting better.

[B]

He was in it to be your hero from the beginning. He was like, did he.

[A]

He moved in.

[B]

Did you learn later? Have you learned sense that he kind of really liked you in a more romantic, I guess way? Did he want you before when he lived with you guys?

[C]

I think yes. But the thing about him is he's not. He would, like, literally, it all came from a spot. And he's been really honest with me because he's like, I liked you. I like, thought you were wonderful and kind of my dream girl, but at the same time, like, my priority at that moment that that piece of me was just, like, locked away because, like, I was more worried about, like, you dying or like, you were showing you.

[B]

Love without being inappropriate.

[A]

And he sounded. It sounds like he respected you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even more than he Had a crush.

[B]

He was showing his love in a way, even if he was never going to be with you, which he probably, you know, he didn't know one way or the other. But just to show you that love by providing you that safety is I think, incredible. Good job, Sam.

[A]

Okay, Sam.

[C]

Yeah, he's amazing. I mean, seriously, I feel like even though this bad thing happened to me, I feel like I got so lucky. Like karma came and swung back and I just, I've gotten somebody who just like unconditionally validates me and hears me and helps me regulate myself to the point like I would be completely like, probably messed up in the head way.

[B]

More and was willing to wait for you to get where you needed to be without pressure. And just how do you. Does your family like Sam?

[C]

Oh my gosh, yeah, my whole family, they love him. My grandma loves him and every time.

[B]

I come visit, you know that. Yeah.

[C]

She always talks about how kind and handsome he is. So I, I just, I feel good and it's one of the relationships where I don't have to try to show, hey, this is a good guy. He just shows it, you know?

[A]

Yes. You don't have to be, you don't.

[B]

Have to worried and like prep someone else.

[C]

Like, you don't have to, oh yeah.

[B]

Defend how he is or whatever.

[A]

What are. So he's amazing. And you talked about people saying, why didn't you leave? Like, what are some things that he has said or friends have said or that you wish somebody would say to a survivor of all of this? Like, how can somebody show up and be a good support system for someone going through this in your mind, talk.

[C]

To your people, talk to your friends, talk to your family. If you are a victim or somebody who's trying to support a victim, you have to communicate the things that are uncomfortable. Because even though I, like don't know if I would have listened to everything at the time, I still think that I wish I would have heard some of the things that people have come and told me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is it almost like they say that, you know, if you're trying to talk to your child, like, I have an 11 year old son and I've heard forever and ever that you talk to your kid and you think they're not listening, but they hear you. And sometimes they roll your eyes and they're like, whatever, mom, and they close the door, whatever, but they still hear you.

[A]

And so it's in the back of.

[B]

Your mind, it sounds like you're almost saying that. Like it's you Hear these people and you might not listen to them and you might just ignore them and roll your eyes, but you hear it and you kind of go back to that. When you're looking for safety or you're looking for help, you kind of hear those words. Like you. They've said it.

[C]

Yeah. And there's some things too. I'm like, I. Even though I. Like I would have heard you and that could have actually made a difference. Like some of the things I've heard post divorce, like he said X, Y, Z, or he said, you know, that he was like talking to other women. And I was like, well, we could have had this conversation. And may. Yeah, maybe it wouldn't have made too much of a difference, but maybe it would've. Gotta communicate.

[A]

Okay, that's good. Because sometimes those conversations are so hard, you're afraid of the person's reaction. There's a way to do it without making them feel stupid.

[B]

Yeah. At least. Sure.

[A]

But you still have to do it.

[B]

I can put it aside and then later if I need that information. It's nice to have had it.

[A]

Yeah. It's like, I just want you to know you can do with this information what you want because that also. Also gives you the control in a position where you don't have control. And then just. And I'm here for you.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

You know.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, you just have. We all have to do that for.

[B]

For people more.

[C]

I would say that the other thing too is just make sure to be supportive and just like, no judgment. Because I think the times when people came with me, like, hey, just tell me what's going on. No judgment. That's when I was most honest and most willing to open up.

[A]

Amazing. You reached out to OnlyFans.

[C]

Mm.

[A]

How'd that go?

[B]

What happened with OnlyFans?

[C]

They told me that all the information from the account has been wiped. So they have no record of anything and they can't tell me how much was made and they can't give me any login information because the account has been switched because he's now dating this 19 year old and I think that she is a part. And I don't know for sure, but I think they're now using that platform because that account was wiped. Everything, all the information.

[B]

No, I'm sorry. OnlyFans.com or.gov or.org or whatever the hell. And you mean to tell me that they do not have the False. Absolutely false. I think that. No, I think that is false. I think they do not want to get sued. I think that information can be subpoenaed. And I, I think in a court of law, I think it can be. Have you.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

Can you ask your dad what kind of judges your dad? Like, can't you say, like, hey, yo.

[C]

What do we do?

[A]

Well, I don't know if you want to tell.

[C]

I know that's my only thing is.

[B]

Like, then have to tell him.

[C]

I have to tell him, and I don't want him mixed up in it.

[B]

Yeah. Then it could affect him negatively. I just want to know how he created an OnlyFans account. Because OnlyFans requires you to not only send identification, but also confirm your identification. Like, don't they make you send her id, Took pictures?

[A]

You know, he had access to all her stuff.

[C]

My birth certificate, my security and my ID all were in his safe.

[B]

Wow. I know that with a subpoena, that information is available. There is absolutely no way that's not available. I don't believe it. I don't buy it. I want our, our attorneys. I want our, our techies. I don't care if you have to be anonymous. I want to hear from our audience. I know.

[A]

How do we.

[B]

One of y' all know somebody else who knows somebody else? The onlyfans gov who will, like, know something.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm hoping to talk to someone better.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But yeah, I've gotten nowhere, absolutely nowhere. And they said there's no information between the following.

[B]

That we have the audience that we have. Somebody knows somebody who knows somebody else who knows information. And that's also what's cool about platforms like this is that, number one, it helps other people feel like they're not alone, which is so important. Which is why I'm so grateful to people like you who come on and share your story so bravely. Because that's a big thing is like, I'm not alone. But also it gives people the. It's almost like an encouragement to stand up and be a little braver. And then it's like, oh, every. Everybody knows somebody who knows somebody or has been through something or has been through something. And so somebody's gonna be like, my mom or my aunt or my. Somebody dealt with this and this is what happened. And so if you guys know how to help, it would be really great to get that information. But.

[A]

So he's dating a 19 year old and she's, you know this because of just social media.

[C]

Well, some of my friends still follow him because they want to make sure that he's not up to anything for this specific reason.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And we did a little bit of sleuthing because I was worried and I saw how young this girl was that was on his profile, and it really, like, brought out a maternal instinct in me. And yeah, she's. She's 19. And he's definitely having her swing because our former Reddit that he was using is. His bio has changed from not a couple anymore to we're a bi couple looking to XYZ some, like, swing or something like that. And then we're leaving where they're living soon. So I know it's been switched. And he is probably having her do some similar stuff.

[A]

Have you ever thought about reaching out to her? It's not your responsibility necessarily, but. Curious.

[C]

Yes. My only hesitation is that I don't know if I would have listened early on in that stage, especially with the love bombing. Like, if he's doing the same things.

[A]

And he's gonna say, you're crazy.

[C]

It's easy to be like, my ex wife is freaking crazy. She's with my ex best friend now. And then he could easily just be like, oh, you know, she cheated on me with him and she's just out to get revenge. And so I've thought about it and I'm still thinking about it. It's not off the table yet.

[A]

I think you do what's. I always think. Think about what's best for you first.

[B]

Follow your gut and your heart.

[A]

Like, putting it behind you. Then. Yeah, behind you.

[B]

What. What do you do, Brian with a Y? Do you tell the wife? Do you not like, do you know, there's. There's no right answer. So following your. Great. Following your femtuition. I. I just. Damn.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. But I'm glad. I'm so glad you came to talk to us because this is really. Did you. Did we ever.

[B]

Did Doug ever come back?

[A]

Where's Doug?

[C]

Oh, yeah, they're all the personalities merged on an acid trip. That's what.

[B]

All the personalities. How many were there?

[C]

No idea. Doug's the only one that I actually met. He said the other ones didn't want to meet me, so I am.

[B]

The hell.

[A]

I hate when people use. And this happens all the time. People use mental illness. As they weaponize it.

[B]

They weaponize it.

[A]

Oh, my God. I'm so sorry.

[C]

I'm really sorry.

[A]

I'm so proud of you and grateful to know you and thank you to Sam's sister.

[B]

Is that who listens to Sam's sister? Wait, Sam's sister listens to Danny?

[A]

Detectives.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I love that you have that relationship with her and can tell her this.

[B]

Thank you. Not Sam's sister. His name is Sam.

[A]

Y'. All.

[B]

Y' all know we anonymize, but thank you. Not Sam's sister.

[A]

Seriously.

[B]

And I hope we really appreciate you.

[A]

I hope this was in some ways cathartic. I know it's really hard to relive it all.

[B]

So, Sam, thank you for taking care of our girl. We are.

[A]

And don't fuck it up. As RuPaul says.

[C]

I love that Hannah's so cute.

[B]

She lives a good happy ending. Thank you so much for sharing. We. I want updates, and I need. We're gonna need pictures of you guys. And, like, I want to see. Sam, do you want to share a little bit about what that's been like for you sharing your story on the TikTok?

[C]

Sure. Yeah. I shared my story. Sam encouraged me to share, and my friend Laura, who are still friends, she's the one who told me to, like, you got to share this on TikTok. And it's been the first one I thought, and I've not really posted a lot. I was like, okay, this is maybe going to get, like, a thousand views. And I got, like, 80,000 views. And I was like, holy moly. So I had to kind of switch courses and learn how to kind of tell my story, but keep people captivated because I do want to share it and want people to, like, understand what I went through and take something away if they can. But I also, like, if I just tell my story, it's not necessarily entertaining. So I'm kind of trying to make sure that I'm getting the story out there, doing a good job.

[B]

Well, the more entertaining it is, the more people listen. The more people listen, the more the conversation goes on.

[C]

So, yeah, so, yeah, it's been awesome, like, getting so much, like, support.

[A]

It's supportive. Okay, good.

[C]

Yeah. 400 supportive comments from, like, women from, like, you know, 18 to, like, 50 and DM. Wow.

[B]

All day.

[C]

So good. So many girls. Girls on there. And it's just been awesome to, like, have that support. And I'm hoping to continue telling it. I had to take a pause because I just got to the OnlyFans stuff, and I just have to, like, think through kind of trying to keep the details correct.

[A]

I think that's good that you're taking your time and doing it in the way that feels comfortable. But I will tell you, our last. We did an episode recently. She shared her story on TikTok and found other people who had dated the same person, and they were able to connect and support one another. I don't know. But maybe it'll get to this 19 year old in some way and help her just by sharing your story. You never know.

[C]

I hope so.

[A]

You never know if you know.

[B]

Peter. Doug, stay away.

[C]

Yeah, please.

[B]

Peter.

[A]

Oh, my God. It's sad how many people are doing what he's doing with the online stuff. I mentioned Andrew Tate a while ago. He taught a course on how to manipulate women into doing only fans and manage, quote, manage them. I mean, the fact that it is this new thing has popped up on the Internet and people are as shitty as they've always been. They're like, how can we use it to control women and make money off of women and. Yeah, dehumanize women. So thank you for talking about it.

[B]

Holy bananas. Can we talk about OnlyFans? Can we talk about the OnlyFans? OnlyFans is supposed to be a place where it's like, oh, giving women the right to, like, take back your sexuality.

[A]

And to have full ownership of that.

[B]

Yeah. And. But you also have to. If you're gonna do that, then you also have to protect the people that you're offering the services to or the platform to. Right. Like, I feel like there should be more checks.

[A]

Like, yeah, I agree. And I hate the response that she got from them. I think he should not be allowed on that site ever again. Because he's almost definitely going to do this again if he's not already.

[B]

Especially if there's no consequence. Of course he's going to do it. He knows now that he can get away with it. So he can keep doing it.

[A]

And they should. I mean, OnlyFans, if you're listening, you need to be working harder on the legal action against people that are taking advantage of people on your site. And because at least in the state of California. So we had the episode the OnlyFans Pimp years ago at this point.

[B]

We're still in contact with those. With those young ladies.

[A]

Exactly. And it's unfortunate that this is still a thing. And I think it's gonna be a thing for a while because people are really slow to respond to it in the state of California. Like, coercion is not part of the legal definition of trafficking, first of all. So you, like, have to be forced physically and, like, touched.

[B]

Or someone has to put their hands on you or their body on you physically. Which sucks, because how, like, it's so hard to prove coercion.

[A]

So let alone that, then you add this virtual element of it.

[B]

And I know Molly the laws haven't caught up with it.

[A]

Molly has talked to DA's as she's working with them for our only fans, pimp girls and stuff. And she's. They have all said like, we believe it's trafficking, but it's not legally trafficking.

[B]

Because the verbiage of the laws do not. Do not represent that. So the laws need to be rewritten in a way that allows for coercion and allows for the prosecution of those aspects. So it's basically semantics.

[A]

These abusers. Yeah. Prosecution of these abusers.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Which they can't do anything to right now because the law, the way that it's written, doesn't apply to it because we have not caught up yet.

[A]

And I'm going to go as far as to say only fans is in a prime position to lead that charge. Like, why are they not lobbying for changes in trafficking laws? Why are they. Absolutely not. If they say this is their brand to protect and empower people who want to be sex workers, then you need to protect everyone, including people taking advantage of your site. And I just don't see that happening. And it sounds like with her they did not do that so well.

[B]

And you would think with this happening more and more, you would think they would be buckling down on it, which from what I understand, only fans does have a very rigid application like policy.

[A]

Then how the hell did he get on as her. Excuse me?

[B]

That's what I'm saying. And I know that, like if there's ways to bypass laws and there's way to get to bypass their rules and the ways to get past it, I'm sure. But they need to be buckling down on that, especially because this is happening more and more and more. So the laws need to be changed. Our government needs to respond to. It needs to respond to the need for this. Because who do you call? You call the cops and they're like, well, did somebody touch you? No. Well, there's something we can do. They don't know how to respond to online actions.

[A]

And how can they prove that you are not the person that posted those things? It's tricky. I get it.

[C]

It's.

[A]

I don't care. Like, it's happening enough. And it is also happening primarily to women, which I think leads to less action. If this was happening to a bunch of dudes, I do think we'd already have laws in place. My hot take. And it's just, it's always been a thing I wrote down. It's an older documentary, so I'm not sure if it holds up. But there's a documentary called Hot Girls Wanted about the porn industry. Did you ever see that?

[B]

Yes, I did see that.

[A]

It was a really great look at how people who willingly go into the porn industry are also coerced into doing way more than they initially want to do.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that came up with this. And I think it's very easy to be on the outside and say, like, why didn't you leave? Why didn't you say no? Let's talk about all of the factors that were going into this trauma for Abby, because there was so much.

[B]

That's a big reason why I appreciate when people like Abby come on and share your story. Because the more we talk about it, the more someone is forced to do something about it. Like the. The, you know, the powers that be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If you will, are kind of. We're forcing their hand. And so if you come forward, it encourages someone else to come forward. It creates a conversation. And then people can't just bury their heads in the sand and be like, oh, we don't see anything. Dum dee dummy. If more and more people talk about it now, they're forced. Like, their hand is forced. Now we have to address this. And OnlyFans should be held accountable for something because they're putting this on their platform.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Okay. That's a lot. So I want to go through the moments where she was kind of coerced into sexual video making and OnlyFans content making. Like, let's start with she's coming out of trauma when she gets back with him.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

He takes advantage of these unmet needs at that point.

[B]

It's the devil. Right. So she knew what he was before, but he was being this. This good guy to her. So she trusted him. Because her hero familiar is usually safe. Even if it's not your standard of safety or your standard of comfort, if it's familiar to you, even if it's abusive, it's still safe. Right.

[A]

I think it's important to remember it is never your fault if you go through any kind of trauma to. But that does. Just sucks. It makes you more susceptible to scams and being taken advantage of, no matter the trauma. And it's not your job. I hate the feeling of, like, oh, you have trauma, so now you have to protect yourself. Like, it's not what I'm saying. But we can take away the reminder that when we're in a vulnerable position, that's when the people strike.

[B]

And that goes back to our episode, the OnlyFans episode that we were talking about before, whenever we talked to an expert in sex trafficking, she said, verbatim, they prey on unmet needs. And that vulnerability is from an unmet need. And so those unmet needs, the vulnerabilities, those get preyed on, taken advantage of, and it gives you a false sense of security or false sense of safety. And. And the bad guy, the perpetrator, he knows that, and they know how to take advantage of that. And it's awful how they manipulate it. It's terrible.

[A]

He did it, and then. So they get back together.

[C]

He.

[A]

I. This set me off. He plants the idea that she has bipolar disorder because she has emotions.

[B]

Dr. Peter Doug said, you have emotions. You have bipolar.

[C]

Ooh.

[A]

As a moody gal, I mean, I.

[B]

We are both emotional creatures. Like, could you imagine?

[A]

And if anybody ever makes you feel bad for human feelings, which is more common than we think, like, it's not okay. And then beyond that one, your partner should not be making those diagnoses. Like, even if they say, like, hey, I want to help you, I think mental health is something you might want. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a way to approach it and say, like, I would love to support you and maybe getting into therapy, whatever, but it's not like, hey, you're the problem. You're bipolar. I know more than you. And so you need to get on meds.

[B]

Imagine being on meds because your partner said, you're bipolar, and then a medical professional says, oh, your partner said that, yeah, sure, here's some meds, medicine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it actually makes you lose your freaking mind. Because I. I learned, I mean, the. Recently, even, that I've been taking Adderall for adhd. I didn't realize it was making me mad. I thought I was just a bad person. And then I. And then. So obviously, there's certain meds that work for you and some that don't. And so as soon as I stopped taking them, I felt better, and I was like, oh, okay. Then that tells me now that this medicine does this. And so if you're not aware of that or if that's not something you're really thinking of and you think you're just, like, honoring your partner, doing the right thing. Because that's what he said. Because now you trust Guy, the devil, you know, and he saved you from this trauma. So he's this person that you trust.

[A]

Like, he's also telling you that you're a pro. Like, if he's like, you're bad. If you're not, like, Getting medication, then you're a bad partner. Like, you just start to get worn down. When you get diagnosed with something like that, it should be a full diagnosis process. This doctor clearly just took the boyfriend's word for it and was like, all right. And throw the medicine at you. And that wasn't cool. Especially because there wasn't any kind of ongoing follow up for that medication. She became very foggy, very numb. You know how I know she was really foggy? Because when she was telling us the story, she skipped over them getting married.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's right, she did.

[A]

And that's a trauma response too.

[B]

She was like, whoopsie, forgot this part. And we're like, wait, hold the wedding. Yeah.

[A]

She was like, well, I was so foggy the whole time. And that's just like.

[B]

And I.

[A]

And I hated when he was like, you're bisexual, so you should have more partners. Because one, it's like a biphobic stereotype that people think we're all slutty. We're not slutty. Some of us are.

[C]

And go for it.

[B]

No matter what your sexual preference is. It doesn't. That's. There's a sexual preference and then there's polyamory or a desire to be people. It's not the same thing.

[A]

And also, you can't just force that on people. He was very manipulative with that, but she didn't fall for that as much. But still, it's important his, like, spirituality kind of having authority over her.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The spiritual bypassing that people do to make you feel inferior and like, you don't know enough and you have to follow their lead. It comes up a lot. It's come up before and it will probably come up again. I'm glad that she was able to kind of start seeing that. But even leaving, I mean, like, how hard? The scariest part of all of this, despite how much she went through, was the moment when she was trying to leave.

[B]

Yeah, that's. And that is usually the scariest part, because it's the unknown of, okay, when I leave, how are they going to respond? And it's the devil you know. When you stay, the devil you don't know is scarier. And the scary part is, okay, if I leave, that's the devil I don't know. So I'm not sure what to expect. But when you stay, at least you know what to expect. It's that familiar safety.

[A]

Some things that I took away from her journey of leaving that we can all remember. One, the cat cam, he was like, listening through the cat cam, y', all.

[B]

There'S so many different ways that you can listen in on someone, so just be careful what you say. Good Lord.

[A]

Because you guys, for real, I mean, if you've been listening for a while, you know that. So I do think if you're ever in a position where you're starting to think about leaving, but you feel unsafe in any way, you're not overreacting. If you get a burner phone and have those conversations on a different phone or don't have those conversations in your home, you can go to a public library and go on their computer like there are other. I. I know it's not. It's easier said than done. But it is a good reminder that you're not crazy for taking those precautions, because people really will take advantage of a cat cam or anything.

[B]

It's true. And honestly, listen, I'm just gonna keep it real, okay? There are times when people will say, oh, you're doing that. Oh, that's a little extreme, don't you think? Listen, I've been a PI for 20 years, and when I tell you this stuff is real, it really happens. And so why not? Like, we have the ability to be more cautious. Just, why are we not using them? Why? Because we might be crazy. The right people in your life will be like, yep, that's a. That's actually really smart. Or they'll be accepting of it. But the people who don't understand those are going to be the ones that are gonna. Oh, that's really weird. And it's like, listen, be weird, be rude, stay alive. If you don't like it, get out. I guess I don't know what to tell you.

[A]

Yeah, be weird, be rude, stay alive. Ashley Flowers. We love that. Yes, I. I completely agree. And I think, okay, so that's the one reminder is, like, protect yourself and don't feel crazy.

[B]

And you are not crazy for wanting to do more.

[A]

And community. If this episode makes you think about the way that after her roommate assaulted her and she didn't really feel a response from her friends, like, we gotta remember to be there for people, even if they're not our closest friend, even if we feel like we're intruding, I think just letting people know that you are someone that they can call go so much farther than you realize.

[B]

And even just listening, like, even just being an ear and saying, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry that happened to you. And I think a lot of people feel uncomfortable because what do you say? It's like, when someone dies in your life, you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And you're like, what do you say? So I think it's uncomfortable, but if you're ever uncomfortable and someone comes to you with something, all you have to say is, I am here for you. How can I support you? What can I do to support you? How can I support you in the best way? And it's more than like, oh, what can I do for you? It's how can I support you? Ask an open ended question, how can I support you? And let them tell you. And they might not know right away. They might say, I don't know. But eventually they're going to know that you've left that open and they have somewhere just to go, just to talk and maybe you can figure it out together. But just say, what can I do to support you? And sometimes that's the best question.

[A]

To easily transition into someone who did go above and beyond in their support. I wrote down, is Sam single? And then later I got to write.

[C]

Down, now they're together.

[B]

Hannah loves the love story. I love when they end happily. And I'm so happy for Abby that Sam was the guy. Like, and I hate to say this, but I really feel that sometimes we go through things to put us where we're supposed to be. And so that's where, I don't know, I feel like Sam was able to prove himself and they like, to her and he was there for her. He was the one who listened and she got to be with him. And so no matter what happened, like, I don't know, I. Would people ask, like, would you change what happened? No, because I don't know that I didn't appear.

[A]

Oh, Sam seemed like, well, if he wasn't, I mean, I was like, he's so into her. There's no way. He's like, I. I'm glad. If he is just genuinely this supportive, then that's incredible. But I am glad that I was like, come on, there's a.

[C]

There's something going on here too.

[A]

I love it. So shout out to Sam and to Abby and to Sam's sister, who is the listener that encouraged Abby to find us.

[B]

So, yeah, she said, you need to go on the dating Detectives. And she said, what's that? And she's like, let me explain it to you. And so this, the community grows and it just offers another story that just goes to show you that you are not alone. This is, you are not the only one this is happening to. No, you are not crazy. A lot of people say they don't share their story because it just sounds so outlandish. Like, who's gonna believe me? We will. We'll listen to you. We'll believe you. You have a platform, an ear, and.

[A]

Thousands of people listening that will also believe you.

[B]

If dozens of thousands. There's a lot. There's hundreds of thousands. To be honest.

[A]

Can I say that, like, Sam got points when I found out it was his sister that listens because I'm like, okay, now I, like, trust his family more. Yes, I know.

[B]

And I'm so happy for Abby. Like, Abby, thank you you so much for sharing your story so bravely. I'm so glad that you are where you are now. And you guys, if this is not an example of adding to that community, man, I don't know what is. So thank you so much for continuing to share the Dating Detectives. And when you share it on your social media, it's really important because that's a lot of people tell us. They're like, oh, I saw it on so and so's Instagram or social media or Facebook. And so that's also just a really great way to connect. So thank you for sharing on your social media.

[A]

I also love if you ever want to write a comment to our guest that's supportive under the videos that we've posted on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, wherever, or you want to send an email, we try to pass that along to our guests so you can do that. And it's just special to see everybody coming together. And Patreon is a place to come together even more. $5 a month for a community that is constantly chatting. I love going into the little message, the chat room.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

We have a book club. We have two bonus episodes every month. We go live with you. You get early access to stuff like merch, and if you want to get all of that, plus ad free listening.

[C]

To all of our episodes.

[A]

$9 a month.

[B]

Oh, and can we say so like we said before that we're actually recording this together in LA because we have a Spotify event tonight. And the reason that we got invited to the Spotify event was because of you guys who listen and support our show. So thank you so much. And if you get a chance, will you please like and do the. What do you do? Like, five stars or something? Like, give us a good review on the. On whatever platform you listen. That really helps our podcast to grow. So it grows our community and we get to go represent the Dating Detectives. At the Spotify event, which is really cool. So thank you so much.

[A]

Hopefully it's an escape room with other podcast hosts. So hopefully we get out.

[B]

Yeah, because it's like the true crime thing. Like if we don't, if we don't win, then we. We're gonna be like, if we don't.

[A]

Get out of the escape room, this might be the last episode, guys. We're gonna have to live there.

[C]

We will get out.

[B]

We will get out.

[A]

There was like a look in your eye just now that was like, we will get out. It was very Liam Neeson of you.

[B]

We will claw our uglissen Mike family. And I especially my son, my 11 year old son, he can get out of an escape room. Like we have not failed an escape room yet. So I'm not going to let him down.

[A]

I've done it one time and I failed. So we'll report back, but we're going to have a good time no matter what. Thank you. We love you guys.

[B]

We love you so much. And as always, trust your intuition.

[C]

Sam.