The Perfect Husband

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Dating Detectives — "The Perfect Husband"

Date: March 30, 2026
Hosts: Hannah Anderson, Anara, Mackenzie Fultz (with guest Sydney)
Producer: Dear Media

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Episode Overview

In this riveting episode, private investigator Mackenzie Fultz and comedian Hannah Anderson are joined by guest Sydney, who shares the harrowing, layered story of her marriage to a man who, by all outward measures, seemed like "the perfect husband." What started as a fairy tale ultimately reveals systematic deception, emotional abuse, and profound betrayal. The hosts and guest discuss red flags, abuser tactics, financial safety, and the long-term impact of hidden abuse, offering both a cautionary tale and empowering strategies for listeners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sydney’s Background and Early Independence

[03:00]–[04:15]

• Sydney grew up in a chaotic home with addiction, which made her fiercely independent.
• Early adulthood: lived alone in a vibrant city, strong career in HR, active social life.
• Victim of a violent home invasion which fundamentally changed her relationship to safety and independence.

“I was going to stay there like come hell or high water.” —Sydney [05:07]

2. The "Gentle Giant" Roommate

[06:37]–[11:00]

• After the break-in, a male co-worker moves in for mutual safety; relationship platonic for a long time.
• Sydney describes the roommate as calm, protective, respectful—never crossed boundaries.

"He was super calm, super collected. But there was something about him that it was like, if someone screws with me, I'm not really worried right now because he'll just take him out. And, like, I knew he was background checked..." —Sydney [07:14]

3. The Relationship Evolves

[11:01]–[14:59]

• Unexpected flirtation begins via Match.com, developing into a gentle romance.
• Sydney never saw him as a romantic option until the online "wink."
• He wins her over with kindness, support, and non-pushy affection.

“I felt no pressure, and I genuinely was like, I think I kind of dig him.” —Sydney [14:59]

4. Marriage and Family: Appearing Perfect

[15:28]–[19:55]

• Their relationship progresses normally: engagement, marriage, two children.
• Sydney finds a rare sense of peace and balance—no fights, supportive partner.
• Building a suburban, home-centered life together.

“I just wanted peace. It was so easy...I didn't have to be anything for anyone else other than me.” —Sydney [17:02]

5. Cracks Emerge: Isolation and His Depression

[19:56]–[22:22]

• Sydney observes his reluctance to participate socially and growing depression.
• He finally reveals childhood trauma. Sydney supports him and studies trauma.

“You had me when I was in a hard time. I've got you now. We're gonna get through this.” —Sydney [22:09]

6. Discovery of Double Life

[22:23]–[32:47]

• During his psychiatric in-patient stay, Sydney discovers a hidden email and graphic evidence of soliciting sex workers.
• Confrontation is met with emotional flatness and denial (“It’s all online, it’s fantasy.”).

“He was somewhat unfazed...It was almost like it wasn't even like, oh, I caught him.” —Sydney [27:36]

• The cycle of confronting, minimal improvement, and new revelations repeats.
• Patterns of gaslighting and compartmentalization become clear.
• Further research shows the behavior predates their marriage.

7. Escalation and Emotional Abuse

[32:48]–[43:18]

• Attempts at therapy, explanations via neurodiversity (autism spectrum), and trauma, but his behavior fits patterns of sociopathy.
• On confrontation, he is callous—denies any connection to Sydney, declares their marriage “was fine until you found out.”
• Always challenges her with, “What are you going to do about it?”

“He was just going to answer me the way he wanted to. Wasn't like there was any conviction in him.” —Sydney [34:17]
“If you just shut the hell up, everything would be fine. This is a problem because you have a problem.” —Sydney on husband's reaction [42:54]

8. Control and Financial Entrapment

[44:00]–[51:09]

• Sydney realizes her isolation and loss of financial agency were engineered.
• She starts to rebuild her credit, education, and resume in secret.
• After a superficial "turnaround," husband moves the family to a remote farm, deepening isolation.

“He was super callous, like, what are you gonna do about it? There's nothing you can do about it unless you want to ruin this dream for the kids.” —Sydney [48:35]

9. Breaking Point and Escape

[51:10]–[59:21]

• After a series of emotional threats and manipulation—including threats involving their children’s emotional support animal—Sydney sets a boundary: hospitalization or separation.
• Violent incidents escalate (door ripped off hinges), culminating in her secretly preparing for departure.
• Sydney successfully files for an emergency protective order, removes herself and daughters from the home.

“When I got that email, I was like, here we go. Okay.” —Sydney on reading the therapist’s confirmation of her ex-husband’s manipulation [53:40]

10. Aftermath: Validation and Healing

[59:22]–[68:12]

• Court issues one-year protective order and validates her fears.
• Despite custody threats, husband never seeks time with their daughters—they were truly "collateral damage" (his own words).
• Sydney leans on community and school for support, openly refuses to carry shame.

“I need you to let me know if my kids are not okay. Like, I always believed in putting adults in their lives. I never made them feel like they had to keep it secret. I'm like, this is not your shame.” —Sydney [62:39]

11. Advice for Listeners: Prevention and Empowerment

[65:09]–[67:53]

• Prioritize education: it cannot be taken from you.
• Build a network: volunteering, church, connection—keep a resume active, build references.
• Maintain financial autonomy: keep property, accounts, and credit in your name, no matter your family arrangement.

“Get your education, because no one can take that from you...get some people in your corner.” —Sydney [65:09] “He didn't push me to give up everything—I did willingly because I trusted him. But, like, if someone's kind of pushing you...No, that. Because someone should want you to be your own person, too.” —Sydney [66:53]

12. Notable Takeaways

[69:43]–[80:49]

• Abuse does not always look how you expect; red flags can be completely hidden.
• Calmness and lack of emotional response can be a form of manipulation.
• It's possible to be successful, strong, and still fall victim.
• Trauma and neurodiversity do not excuse abusive behavior.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "This person would never be my friend. Why would they be my husband? Who does that to someone?" —Sydney [51:14]
• “He said, they are collateral damage.” —Sydney on her ex referring to their daughters [52:47]
• “If you get out of this, you can never let them get in this again.” —Sydney [56:18]
• “This is not our shame...He is a problem. He brought it in our home. He is not in our home anymore. We will not carry the shame. We will not live in a secret.” —Sydney [62:39]
• “When I got that email, I just got full body chills.” —Anara [64:24]
• “You lost your privilege. That was your purpose in my life, was to give me these beautiful children and. Well, goodbye.” —Anara [71:22]
• “You have survived, you have arrived.” —Hannah [72:45]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Sydney’s early life and independence: [03:00–06:37]
• Meeting future husband (the “gentle giant”): [06:37–11:01]
• Start of romance: [11:01–14:59]
• Marriage and children: [15:28–19:55]
• Depression and isolation emerge: [19:56–22:22]
• Discovery of double life: [22:23–32:47]
• Gaslighting, sociopathic behavior, confrontation: [32:48–43:18]
• Financial control and isolation: [44:00–51:09]
• Breaking point, protective order: [51:10–59:21]
• Divorce, healing, daughters’ recovery: [59:22–68:12]
• Advice and empowering strategies: [65:09–67:53]
• Reflections & debrief from hosts: [69:39–80:49]

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Key Takeaways, Warnings, and Empowerment

• Abuse can be hidden behind utter normalcy and apparent stability.
• It is critical to maintain a support network, financial independence, and self-worth outside your relationship.
• Trust your intuition: if you're isolated from friends, activities, or finances, that's a warning.
• Trauma, neurodiversity, or mental health challenges do not excuse cruelty or betrayal.
• If you’re in crisis, reach out—help exists, and as Sydney’s story shows, you are not alone.

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For further support:
National Domestic Violence Hotline: [phone], 233

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Hannah]

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-777, 233 for support.

[Anara]

Happy Dating Detectives Month day.

[Hannah]

Hello. We had a fun weekend. You had a Barbie convention. I had self defense.

[Anara]

I'm so proud of you, Hannah. I love that you're doing these self defense classes. It's called don't get killed Club. And Hannah has done an amazing job of creating this space where she's making self defense normal and cool and encouraging. You just do it. Like it doesn't have to be like,

[Hannah]

you don't have to be a boxer.

[Sydney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But we do need to practice.

[Anara]

I'm literally just a girl.

[Hannah]

We just gotta practice. But I'm excited. I mean, we're also. We'll do these announcements, then we'll get to the episode Crime Con in Vegas. We'll be there speaking of other conventions. So that's the end of May, and if you want to come hang out with us. And also if you're a true crime person, like, you gotta go. Like it's.

[Anara]

It's the last weekend in May. It's in Vegas at the. Is it the Caesar's Palace?

[Sydney]

I think so.

[Anara]

And it's gonna be so much fun. We're gonna be there with a booth and we have some fun surprises for you. So please come and see us. It's gonna be so cool.

[Sydney]

Yay.

[Hannah]

And that's that. Patreon also join Patreon. We love Patreon. I'm sorry I'm flying through these, these announcements without grace, but you guys know it by now.

[Anara]

Let's get into it. I want you guys to meet Sarah Sydney.

[Hannah]

Our guest is awesome. She's such a badass. A badass mom. We're going to talk about a lot. I mean, definitely some abuse comes up and mental health. Some. Some things. And they talk. She talks about some childhood trauma. But in general, I mean, let's just say this dogfish was the nice guy.

[Anara]

Or maybe he might be a jellyfish. We don't know.

[Hannah]

You don't know. You have to listen to the end to understand what we mean by that. But you're going to be annoyed because I was annoyed because at the beginning it really sounds like a nice story,

[Anara]

and then you know it's not. And then you're like, what's coming up?

[Hannah]

She's very inspiring. Like, she's really awesome. So I can't wait to hear our whole conversation.

[Sydney]

You're going to love her.

[Anara]

Yes, for sure. You're going to love her.

[Hannah]

Anything else we need to tell them before we get into it?

[Anara]

No, I think that's it. Let's. Let's meet her. So we have Sydney. Sydney, we would love. We love having you here. Thank you so much for being here.

[Sydney]

Well, thanks for having me.

[Anara]

Will you please take us on your journey?

[Sydney]

Absolutely. I grew up in a home that was a little bit chaotic. There was addiction in the home, but it was also another side that was very normal. So I felt like my whole life I was kind of balancing that reality. And as I grew up, I became very independent. I was working a job in an HR role, but it was really a warehouse type environment, so it was tons of men. I was one of two women there. They kind of were like my big brothers. It felt very comfortable, and I just felt very safe in that environment. It. It was very relaxed, and I just knew I was surrounded by good people. They were in kind of like a rougher industry, but they were truly just like great men that I could go to if I was scared or needed something. So I was living downtown in a really neat area, kind of like lots of young nightlife. I owned my own home. Really felt like I was kind of killing it. I was in my mid-20s. Yeah. And I had just like a really active social life. Was super independent and enjoyed my independence. I never really felt lonely, and I loved where I was. So I was actually a victim of a home invasion when. When I owned that home. God, that must have been so scary.

[Hannah]

But what happened?

[Sydney]

So I was on the first floor of my house, and I heard a noise upstairs. But again, it was a downtown area, so I didn't really think much of it. Someone actually broke in from the balcony of my second level and hid in my bedroom. Oh, my God. True story. Yeah. So as I went upstairs a couple hours later, at the top of the steps, there was a man standing there.

[Anara]

And.

[Sydney]

And I screamed at the top of my lungs. I had my cell phone in my hand. It was a flip phone at the time. And I happened to be on the phone. He broke my phone in half.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sydney]

He turned me around and put his knee in my back and his hands around my neck. And he kneed me to the ground and then he pushed me down the steps. And it was brick on each side. Cause it was like a row home. So I went into the brick and he put me in the bathroom. Took his belt off and put it around the outside of the door. And I heard the blinds on my front door shake. And so I knew that he was gone. And I basically had to sit in there forever or come out. Like, I didn't. I couldn't just say that, right? But I had no phone. I had no one living with me.

[Hannah]

Oh my God.

[Sydney]

I ran out the front of my home and in the road a couple houses down, there was a man standing there. And I was in my nightgown and I ran down and I grabbed his phone and I called 911. So when that happened, my whole world was rocked. And there were detectives there all night. And instantly I was like, okay, I'm gonna be okay. Cuz the shock. So I. I went into work. I still like how to. I went into work the next day and I was in my office and I literally walked into the middle of the warehouse. And I was like, I need a roommate. Yeah, I'm afraid to live alone and I need a roommate. My house was two bedroom and I was very independent. No one was going to push me out of my house. I was certain of that. I was going to stay there like come hell or high water. And there was a guy who hadn't worked there that long and he was like, actually, yeah, I can't stand where I live. And I could totally move in. I'm like, when do you want to come? Let's go. So he's preparing to move in my house and I suddenly realize I can't stay in my house. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat. And so I bet you couldn't.

[Anara]

Oh my gosh, Right.

[Sydney]

So I rented my home out. Like I got a tenant. And then I rented another house the next neighborhood over. So this guy from my work moved in there. Two separate bedrooms. We lived two very different lives. And I was angry that my independence was lost. But I also can imagine that like, that really pissed me off because suddenly something was taken from me, you know. Anyway, this guy was like 130 pounds more than me and over a foot taller. I was safe. And I dare somebody to screw with him, right?

[Anara]

Because like, he'll kick their ass.

[Sydney]

Amen. He was super calm, super collected. But there was something about him that it was like, if someone screws with me, I'm not really worried right now because he'll just take him out. And, like, I knew he was background checked because you worked in my. Like, I knew the process. I was an HR person, so.

[Hannah]

But you didn't know him super well. You said he was newer to the company.

[Sydney]

It was new. And that was kind of great that I didn't know him because, like, there was no drama. And we lived very different lives. We didn't do meals together. We didn't do roommate things. Like, he did his life, I did my life. So I had the safety and security of, like, a big, giant guy there.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

But he didn't want to be in my business. And frankly, I had a pretty active social life. Like, I was out way too much. I drank way too much, and thank the good Lord I'm here because I did not always make good decisions, you know? And so there were nights that, like, if I came home and I was not in this state, he would literally make sure I got to my room and shut the door and leave. There was never a boundary. Right. It was so wonderful.

[Anara]

Listen to us. Oh,

[Hannah]

it is sad because it's like, this should be bare minimum. We shouldn't be so impressed. But it is nice.

[Sydney]

Exactly. When you grow up, really not expecting men to be that way, which I

[Hannah]

think a lot of us do, sadly.

[Sydney]

Yeah. And so I went from being angry that my independence was gone, but then feeling like, oh, wow, this dude knows that I'm not going to deal with anything. And I was pretty tough in my own right. And so, like, I dare you to cross a line, but I never had to worry about that.

[Hannah]

I mean, you were also his hr, Right.

[Sydney]

I know. Honestly, I did ask if that was okay. Right. But it was almost like he was completely disinterested. Like, he couldn't be bothered. He didn't care. He was. He was his.

[Anara]

You were just glad he was there in his size.

[Sydney]

That's it. That's exactly it. So someone else saw a big man going in and out of my home because the first time, they think the person that jumped me stalked me because my car was parked three blocks away, and he stole my car. So they were like, we knew. So to me, I'm like, I've got a big guy going in out of my house now.

[Anara]

Mm.

[Sydney]

Totally fine.

[Hannah]

He stole your car. Oh, my God.

[Sydney]

Stole my car. That was three blocks away. Yeah.

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[Sydney]

So I felt safe, but we didn't really engage. And we lived very separate lives. Never crossed a boundary, never made advances, never flirted. And he would on occasion just be like, I don't think that guy you went out with tonight was a good guy. Like, I just want to let you know. And he was right usually, you know. And he was consistent, he was respectful, he was predictable. He totally accepted me for whatever. I didn't feel like I had to be anything other than I was very easy conversation, very protected. And so one night I'm in my bedroom and he's in his bedroom. And this was like forever ago when we had match.com and I get a wink and it's from him.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh, this is such a wait.

[Anara]

And he knew it was you.

[Sydney]

Okay, it's a romance novel, right? So I get this little wink and I immediately me, I'm like dumbass. You know what I mean? Like whatever, right? But then it was kind of cute. And so we messaged back and forth a couple times and then he asked to take me out to dinner.

[Hannah]

Were you like, this is weird, or had you thought about him like this at all?

[Sydney]

I had not thought about him like that at all.

[Anara]

And he had never seemed to have thought about you like that either.

[Sydney]

Zero. And so when we messaged back and forth a little, it was just kind of like, almost nice cordial conversation rather than like, hey, lock the door on your way out. They were just, like, people meeting each other in a different way, you know? So we went out to dinner, and I remember sitting across from him at dinner being like, what is happening right now?

[Anara]

So y' all set this up on the app instead of just going to his bedroom being like, hey, you want to do it this way?

[Hannah]

Like, did you guys acknowledge it in the. In the rooms at all?

[Sydney]

Negative.

[Hannah]

Wait, that's so funny.

[Sydney]

You were like.

[Anara]

So you guys were just living your own life under the same roof, doing your own thing, but talking online to each other as if you didn't live together?

[Sydney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Did he, like, get dressed for the date, go outside, and then knock on the door again? Like, I'm imagining, Do you want to

[Sydney]

go to dinner, like, tomorrow? It was, like, two days later. But in between those two days, we just lived our normal life because I wasn't really thinking much of it, and I was just like, oh, this is cute. This is playful. This is funny.

[Anara]

Playful. Yes.

[Sydney]

And. And it was like, he's not going to cross any boundaries. I still wasn't worried about it. If the date didn't go well, who cared? He didn't give a crap about anything. Like, he was just so chill that I'm like, okay, sure. This will be fun. Well, when we went out, like, I was kind of like, I don't know if I'm ever gonna get married. Like, I was very independent. And he looked at me, and he was like, well, that's really a shame, because, like, you deserve someone to love you. That's a good line, right? And I'm like, that's kind of nice to hear. And so I started to see this different side of him, and I was like, he really does have a tender heart. Because he was saying things like, some of them were lines, but some of them, there was, like, a vulnerability in him coming out. So everything progressed very respectfully. When we kind of, like, were barely dating, I actually got sick with a stomach ulcer. And I was in the bathroom one night, and I'm growing up, and I panic because I think I'm throwing up blood. It was red jello. Anyway.

[Anara]

Oh, no.

[Sydney]

But I was like, oh, my God, I'm throwing up blood. And I called him in because I'm like, something going to die. And he came in, and he, like, didn't make fun of me, like, but he kind of. He was like, oh, I think you're okay. Like, I think it's right. But I look back and I'm like, that was totally a moment when I. Anyway, when we were dating, if I went to bed at night, he would sit outside of my bedroom door and talk to me.

[Anara]

Wait, what?

[Sydney]

Never crossed a line?

[Anara]

Oh, never. Okay.

[Sydney]

So, like, he would sit on the floor outside of my room, and my door would be open and I'd be in bed, and we would, like, talk like that. And then he would tell me good night and go to bed.

[Anara]

Okay.

[Sydney]

Totally respectful, totally calm.

[Hannah]

What's going through your head as this develops?

[Sydney]

I just was kind of like, I. Like, it's really nice that he's not all. That he wasn't out to get something. He. It seemed very like, if it worked, it worked, and if it didn't, it didn't. I felt no pressure, and I genuinely was like, I think I kind of dig him. Like, I remember the first time he held my hand being like, I'm holding his hand. Like, how do I feel about that? Oh, I think that feels good. You know, like, it was stuff like that. It was just very easy and very comfortable. So fast forward, we get engaged like, a year and a half.

[Hannah]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, don't fast forward that fast.

[Sydney]

Yeah, like, we dated. Everything was normal and fine. There was zero flags. There were zero flags.

[Hannah]

And you, like, fall in love. When does he come? Like, he comes into the bedroom eventually.

[Anara]

Yeah. When y' all start.

[Sydney]

Yeah, yeah. Like, you don't have to tell us everything, but obviously, like, everything progresses. Everything gets more physical. We start talking about later in life, we start talking about things. And so he proposes and we get

[Hannah]

engaged, and we're still working together and living together.

[Sydney]

Yeah, that's a lot. Actually, at that point, I had left the company and I was working somewhere else.

[Anara]

Okay. Were you surprised? The progression, knowing that, like. Like, was there ever a time when you were like, well, this was bound to happen, or was it all just a surprise?

[Sydney]

I think I just felt very even.

[Anara]

Okay, so you just felt good about it? Like, there was never felt solid.

[Sydney]

Like, I never grew up feeling solid. Right. And I always grew up with, like, this hostility. Things were high, things were low. Things were this.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Sydney]

And I mean, with him, there was no anything. He didn't Care if I went out with friends. He didn't care if I stayed home and read a book. He read a lot.

[Anara]

Oh, man.

[Sydney]

I mean, he was just balanced to you? Yeah, so balanced. But there was this edge to him that was also kind of hot, and that was fun. And so I felt no pressure. It was almost like, you know, like the. Like the hard guy that's always going to protect you. But he didn't have the big ego that went with it. He seriously didn't give a shit if people liked him. And I loved that. My mom actually at one point called him the gentle giant.

[Hannah]

I was going to ask you, what did family think of him? What did your friends think of him?

[Sydney]

I mean, my best friend was like, this is the greatest thing ever. My family didn't really. I think some of them felt like, she can do better. I think some of them thought I could have had a more professional whatever. But anybody I knew, like, I did not care. I did not want the guy at the party that needed to like him. I didn't give a shit. I just wanted peace. It was so easy. And we talked about politics. We talked. Like, we just talked. Sometimes we just talk and talk and talk. So for me, it wasn't all of the wonderful butterflies. It was a very peaceful calm. And I didn't have to be anything for anyone else other than me. So we get married, and about six months later, I get pregnant. That was intended. And a little after, like, basically they were like, wait six months, and then you can get pregnant again. Because I had a C section. And so right away, I got pregnant again. And this was planned. Like, wanted to be a mom. He knew I'd be a great mom. And I was like, let's have babies.

[Anara]

And you guys still continued to get along well. And he was still the protector.

[Sydney]

Zero fights, zero arguments.

[Anara]

Okay, wow.

[Sydney]

Zero tension. It was so easy. It was so easy. And when we got married, at our wedding, he bawled his eyes out. I mean, bawled his eyes out was coming down the aisle. And so I started to see real emotion in him that I hadn't seen. And I was like, he loves me. And at one point, his dad actually came to me and was like, if he doesn't marry you, he's never gonna get married. You know what I mean? Like, you are. There's no one that's better. And I felt. Felt like he was really just right for me. There was an ease. He listened when I talked. And so it was just very good. It was very easy. We had the babies so Having now. Yep. And I'm staying at home. So he's going to work, I'm staying home. And I just felt very rooted in my faith and my family life. I absolutely took on everything that it was to be a mom and a homemaker. And I. I was so grateful. Like, I didn't care. People thought I was crazy. I was me, and he supported me. But he was traveling a lot, and I started to feel like that wasn't what our family was supposed to be. Like, I wanted this little bubble.

[Anara]

Yep.

[Sydney]

Like, I missed him, and so I was like, I think you need to consider a different company, same industry. He really. It was very niche, and he became really respected in that. And so we had a couple different states of options, and we ended up choosing the Midwest. And so we moved to the Midwest, and I was very grounded, very happy. He came in the door at night, there was dinner on the table. We did the kid thing. I was like, the neighborhood mom. Everybody would drop their kids off.

[Hannah]

Oh, I love that.

[Sydney]

And it was great. And I also didn't have a support system, so, like, there were no babysitters. But we didn't really care about going out that much. That's not what we did. We just kind of wanted to be together and do the normal things, so. So we really built this life of home. And I loved our home, and I loved our life. I met friends, so I had friends at church, and they would do things like go to barbecues and, like, go. And so we would get invited, and he would never go. And he would just be like, I just get really anxious socially. I'm just not comfortable around people. And so I thought, like, he's always been really quiet. He'd be like, I don't like small talk. I just don't. There's nothing wrong with them, but, like, I don't really need to know them.

[Hannah]

That's.

[Anara]

And you guys had never been in a situation where you were around other folks before? Like. Like, this is new.

[Sydney]

Developing a friend base and getting to go out. I mean, we, I think, were socially before just because we lived in a downtown area that was social. But as far as, like, developing friendships, you know, you meet those couples and you become friends. As that started building, he started saying, this isn't for me. And so I was like, okay. So we had two girls, and as they were getting older, like 4 and 5, he really started to become depressed. And so I'm like, what's going on? And I just said one day, did something happen in your childhood? Like, was There something growing up. And he says yes. And he tells me trauma that.

[Anara]

Oh, no.

[Sydney]

No one should have had to endure.

[Anara]

Oh.

[Sydney]

And it was like, instantly I knew it was bad. He didn't even say everything, but, like. Like, I saw a pain in him. Yeah. So I. He was my husband, and I wanted to help him heal. So I learned everything possible I could about trauma in men.

[Anara]

Oh.

[Sydney]

Everything. I read the books. I talked to people. I was just like, we're gonna deal with this, and I got you.

[Hannah]

You're part of. You're gonna be there.

[Anara]

Yeah. Like, you're my partner.

[Sydney]

We're.

[Anara]

We're in this together.

[Sydney]

We don't need to be the strong one anymore. I've got us. You had me when I was in a hard time. I've got you now. I don't care if you cry. I don't care if you break down. I don't care what you need to do. I've got us. We're gonna get through this.

[Anara]

Oh.

[Sydney]

But his depression starts to spiral, and one day, I get a text message from him, and I just knew he was gonna take his life.

[Anara]

No.

[Sydney]

And so I drove him to a mental health facility. Like, I went home, and I was like, you need to get in the car. I dropped the kids off with a neighbor, and I drove him in for an evaluation. And they immediately admitted him. He didn't really want to go, but he knew he had to go. It was almost like, well, damn, I didn't kill myself. I guess this is what I have to do, right? It was like, I want help. But when we got there, they admitted him right away. And I don't know if you've ever kind of been through this, but they, like, take your shoelaces, like, all those, and you have to give them to the person that. So he gives me all of all of his things, and one of them was his iPad, and he paid all of our bills. Like, when I tell you it was serious, Olivia. Like, 1950, it was. And. And I was like, oh, I've gotta do the things that I used to do when I was independent. Like, here we go, back in this role. So I go home. I knew he was gonna be there, but I didn't know how long. And a few days later, I log into his iPad with information he gave me to pay our bills. And there's an email account that I don't recognize, so I'm like, what in the world is this? So then I start seeing. This was back in Craigslist time ads where he's Soliciting women?

[Anara]

No.

[Hannah]

Oh, no. What did they say?

[Sydney]

I mean, like, people that were advertising that they were sex workers. And he was messaging them to meet up. And so I'm like, oh, Dad, I think he's living this double life. Oh, my God. So I go down the street, and I take the girls to my neighbor's house, and I come home and I completely collapse on my kitchen floor.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

Like, complete disorientation, total emotional shock. I'm thinking to myself, I picked the boring one. I picked the one that didn't care about picking up women.

[Anara]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Hannah]

You lived with him from day one. Like, he. You would have seen, it seems like, correct you.

[Sydney]

I lived with him, I worked with him. And when travel came at work, the guys that he traveled with, again, they were like my brothers. None of them had. One of them would have come to me and been like, just so you know, he ain't being loyal. There was none of that. There was none of that.

[Hannah]

So who is this guy?

[Sydney]

Right.

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[Sydney]

So I called the hospital that he was at, and I said, I need to talk to his nurse. And I tell them I just found this. And I know trauma can bring behaviors, and I don't know what to do. And she was pretty much like, this isn't because of that, honey. Like, this is not. People come in here for other traumas, and they don't go and cheat on their wives, just so you know. Like, she was real straight with me, but I'm like, but he. This isn't who he is. So she goes, how about we. We set a room up here? You can come and confront him here, and we will have two people by the door. And this would be a safe place for you to confront him. Whatever. He reacts. You don't have to worry about. You can walk away when you want to. And it was safe. So I went up and I sat at a table across from him, and I confronted him. He was somewhat unfazed. And he was just like, I know it's wrong, but it's all online. This is just some fantasy life that I live. This isn't anything I've actually done. And. But I'm sorry. And I know it's wrong, and I won't anymore. And he's like, I. I never met up with anyone. I never like. Because in the manner of which he was so unfazed. It was almost like it wasn't even like, oh, I caught him.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

It was like, not.

[Anara]

It was like, he's not freaking out, so why should I?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

So he apologized. He said wouldn't happen again. I'm like, okay, maybe again, he isn't that guy. Maybe he's not cheating on me. I don't know. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna stay. We're gonna fix this relationship. Again. I, like, learn about trauma, learn about addiction, learn about recovery. I'm talking to his therapist, meeting with his therapist. We have a marriage counselor. I'm talking to support people at church. So this pattern kind of forms. Like, I discover something. I confront him. There's a little bit of improvement, which wasn't really. He would just set up another account somewhere else.

[Hannah]

And this is the same thing you're discovering or other things?

[Sydney]

Same thing. It's all around this same kind of behavior.

[Hannah]

Soliciting app, but Craigslist solicitation. Okay.

[Sydney]

Yeah. And, I mean, it wasn't like, let me get to know you. It was not. It was hookup sites.

[Anara]

Wow.

[Hannah]

How much are you reading of these? Are you just. You see it, you throw the phone, you don't even want to look, or are you digesting it?

[Sydney]

A whole lot of exchange. You know what I mean? Like, if. If. If someone posted an ad on Craigslist that they were available for something. And he emailed them, and then they replied back. That would be it. Do you know what I mean? So I don't know if after the email, he would switch to his phone, like, I don't know.

[Anara]

But I read.

[Sydney]

But I read what I could. And I noticed during each phase of discovery, there was a. Never an offering of information. So if everything you find out, you know, there's always more. Do you know what I mean? Like, everything I know, I've caught. Let's not be dumb. So I would take it all to his therapist. I would be like, hey, here's what's happening now. Like, I wasn't in la la land. I was dealing with it. And this counselor that was working with us, she was like, okay, let's learn how to get through this if we're going to. And I honestly, like, my friends are still like, you need to be a P.I. i basically learned everything. I mean, I was a pretty good detective a long time ago, considering it wasn't. And this was not my thing. But I. I never had to, like, hack anything. Like, I would be like, oh, he uses this device and I have access to this device. And so, like. Right.

[Hannah]

So it's just research.

[Sydney]

Or, hey, I'll make up an account and he won't know it's me, and I'll kind of. You are a bi. I just started finding what I needed to find to the point where when he denied something, I could be like, actually, no, that's a lie. And I was trying to figure out how much he was really lying.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

So it was, you know, we're. We're talking to this marriage therapist, and it's like, I mean, he could have left me. He didn't. And he was so unfazed by each.

[Anara]

Just.

[Sydney]

He did not react the way a normal guy would. He wasn't outraged. He wasn't trying to get me back. He was just like, I know it's problem. Like, I'm. It's not serious. Like, I'm trying anyway. So there's this thing of, like, he's always been a little different, and maybe there's something else going on mentally or whatever. So maybe he should go get evaluations. Maybe there is something. So we find out he's on the autism spectrum. He was super bright. He was very smart and quirky. But it explained his lack of social engagement. Like, a lot of things started become explained. So suddenly his behavior is not like, oh, I'm chasing after these things. It's. These are compulsions. These are special interests.

[Hannah]

Nope. Autistic people are not just going to cheat. We know that now. But I mean, I was going to ask if he was also playing into his depression in terms of his reaction to everything.

[Sydney]

No, he never really used that. And it was. That was part of why. I mean, when I tell you he had good therapists fold. He had good therapists. Fold. He really did. So I either have. I can look at, like, the medical documentation, and in front of me, that says, like, he has this and deal with this and learn this, or I can be like, oh, it's a bunch of crap, and I'm not. But it was there in my face. And so I'm like, I have an obligation to learn about what this means. This is how it felt. At one point, I was a caretaker for a sick man. That's what I described it as. At one point, I resigned myself to, like, I have this mentally ill husband. I. I will. This is my life. I am a caretaker to a sick man. And I just accepted that. And so I grieved a romantic partner. And, I mean, if he had cancer, I wouldn't leave. I actually said that to a friend. If he had cancer, I wouldn't leave. So we bring this to the marriage counselor, and she starts talking about a neurotypical and neurodiverse couple and what it means and how his behavior is wrong. But this unhealthy behavior developed over time. He's now kind of gone to this thing, and it's breaking patterns and it's breaking habits. And so I'm trying to adapt and stabilize the family. He's now on other medication for depression. He's like, I want to talk to some of my family members about this trauma. He begins, like, he's going to, like, confess things. I'm like, we're moving. Okay, we're moving. This is moving. So I'm doing the work. And, I mean, when his behavior would be off, I knew to snoop. And so I found out this was not a new thing. This was something that had been going on before me.

[Hannah]

Really?

[Sydney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

How did you find that out?

[Sydney]

Because I started going back through old messages of his from his accounts that he had given me the passwords to.

[Hannah]

He told something he just does. That's interesting, because I wonder if doing it for so long almost makes him feel like it's not something. It's, like, compartmentalized 100. That's.

[Sydney]

That's. Yeah, you'll. You'll hear it. It's kind of crazy.

[Anara]

So I.

[Sydney]

So, like, as it would be like, oh, his behavior Stopped. But he spent a whole lot of time out in the yard or whatever. Well, what is he doing out there the whole time? You know what I mean? And so one day I just looked in his bag from work and I found another phone. You know, like, what the hell?

[Hannah]

And how long is this period from when he.

[Sydney]

So this is going on? Probably like a year and a half.

[Anara]

Oh my gosh.

[Sydney]

And so one day I went to him and I was just like, I need, I need to know. I need you to tell me if you have ever been with these women. Because at this point I have no proof that there was anything physical.

[Anara]

How did the emails only stated that there was an interaction, not what the interaction was.

[Sydney]

There was never a post. You know what I mean? It was like, okay, right. So I had no proof that he.

[Hannah]

But were they ever saying, like, I want to meet up with you on this day?

[Sydney]

Yes. But then there was nothing after it. So it would seem like it, but I didn't have proof. And I'm not going to fight something that someone can fight, but I'm not going to go to it until I know.

[Anara]

Yeah, you can't bring a knife to a gunfight. Like you got to have all your shit together.

[Sydney]

And I knew he had no. Like he was just going to answer me the way he wanted to. Wasn't like there was any conviction in him.

[Anara]

So even confronting him wouldn't give you the answers. If he wants to say no, you need proof.

[Sydney]

Correct. So we played this game for a while until I was like, I think he's just kind of full of shit. And so there's these websites that are kind of like Yelp, but not for like Chinese restaurant. And people.

[Anara]

Even reviews for sex workers.

[Sydney]

Uh huh.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Anara]

What?

[Hannah]

I did not know that existed.

[Anara]

It exists.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh.

[Sydney]

And so I see his reviews and I start freaking out.

[Anara]

Wait, his reviews of them?

[Sydney]

Uh huh.

[Hannah]

How many reviews had he left?

[Anara]

How many reviews?

[Sydney]

So I found five or six. And here was the kicker. It would sometimes say like, oh, I was here, I met with her on Friday afternoon or whatever. And so I would go back and look and be like, oh, that day he wasn't at his office or. And he, he did travel a little bit, so I would see the cities he was in and I'd be like, oh shit. That really happened because that's why he left a day early. So I started realizing his three day trips were really five day trips, which is why no one at work ever knew he was doing this, because he left a day before And a day after, because. So the extent to which this was going on. So then I peeled the layers back more, and I was literally looking at the calendar. What city was he at? What city can I look for a review in? Right. It's sort of like when you go on Groupon and you can look by city. So, like, I would start looking at geographic areas at certain times. And. Yes. Like when I was pregnant with one of our kids from six, seven years before. Mm, yes.

[Hannah]

So what kept you from getting up and taking the girls and walking out the door?

[Sydney]

Because I had no support. I had.

[Anara]

You didn't have a job.

[Sydney]

I had no family there.

[Anara]

Oh, God.

[Hannah]

Yep. And people don't remember that. It's not as easy as up and up and out.

[Sydney]

All I knew was that my girls could never be with him. And I was not in a place where I could say, I can handle them by myself. And I didn't have people there. So I just stayed very even. That's all I can tell you. I just was like, if I'm doing this, I'm not going to be crazy. I'm not going to let this consume me. I'm not like, I'm going to deal with this. So I would print out all of his crap, and then I would keep it a little folder, and I would go to him. And so one day I sat. Sat down across the dining room table, and I said, I need you to tell me if you've ever touched anyone. Like, I need to know what happened.

[Anara]

Now.

[Sydney]

I knew. I knew at the time, but now I was playing his game. And, I mean, he looked at me as calm as could be, and he's like, I don't know why you're still asking this. I have told you, it's all online, blah, blah, blah. So I whip out my folder, and I'm like, bam.

[Anara]

She got receipts.

[Hannah]

Receipts, timelines.

[Sydney]

So I'm screenshots. Game over Now. Now. Now he's going to, like, be mad. Now he's going to. He didn't give a shit. He felt no emotion. He didn't care.

[Anara]

There was no reaction. He was just like, okay.

[Sydney]

Kind of like, well, I mean, okay, why'd you even ask me?

[Hannah]

And how did you feel hearing that? Did you want him to get angry? I would.

[Sydney]

I don't know that I wanted him to get angry. I think I wanted him to realize the ball was in my court.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[Sydney]

And so what I said is, I'm not going to ask you anything going forward, but know that I'm not done looking. And so if you're gonna do your thing, I'm gonna do my thing, and I'm not afraid, and I'm gonna get it all.

[Anara]

Oh, my God.

[Sydney]

That's when things started to get a little ugly. We're now in Covid.

[Hannah]

Oh, no.

[Sydney]

It's real hard to hide addictions in Covid. So then you start to see, holy crap. The whole thing I thought was fine is really. He just didn't care. Because who can look at their wife in the face when she's telling you? I was literally like, I will not be okay if I don't know what happened. If you tell me what happened, I can do this. But, like, I will not be okay if you don't tell me. I need you to tell me. Lied. I pulled it out. He could have given two craps. It was like, I mean, why did you even ask?

[Hannah]

That hurts.

[Anara]

He. Because he genuinely felt like the right thing to do was to lie, but then he didn't care. But then when you said, I have proof, he's like, okay, fine.

[Hannah]

I'm not sure if he's thinking about right and wrong. I have a feeling he's not empathizing at all.

[Sydney]

That's so funny that you say that, because when we were at the table that day and I pulled it out, and I was like, I don't know how you can do this. He was like, just because I do something you don't like, it doesn't make it bad. There's good and bad, right and wrong. And, like, you have your morals and you have their. Your values, but they don't have to be the ones I live by. And I'm like, well, actually, if you married me, they do.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Actually, that's kind of the whole thing with the vows and the. The signing of the paper, and he knew me.

[Sydney]

Like, he knew this is not something I would have been okay with. And so I asked him, like, why did you marry me? And I really meant that. You know what I mean? Like, you didn't have to. I wasn't pregnant. Why did you do this if you knew I would never be okay with it. And he was so calm, and he goes, it had nothing to do with you. You never supposed to find out what literally was like, I didn't do anything to you. What I did was someone else has nothing to do with you. Our marriage was great until you found

[Hannah]

out, so it's your fault.

[Sydney]

We didn't fight. Everything was fine. You. This didn't impact our marriage. You not liking it impacts Our marriage. But just because you don't like something, it doesn't make it wrong. And now I'm in this whole crazy shitstorm of mental. That I'm like, what am I dealing with?

[Hannah]

That. Yeah. No, that would really mess with me,

[Anara]

because that's not, like, a normal response.

[Sydney]

Correct? It is not. It is not a normal response. And that's what I began. That's what began coming up in therapy. Like, I would say that I was like, I'm actually starting to get a little afraid. This is not.

[Anara]

That's not normal.

[Sydney]

Like, who. Who let someone live their life knowing they're living a total other life? Like, why did he think this was okay? He's like, I mean, this is. This is. I've been doing this for decades. Not about you. It's about. This is just what I do.

[Hannah]

So you said you'd done a lot of research, and you're in therapy, and it's. We're not therapists, and sometimes diagnoses aren't, like, necessary or even helpful. But I'm curious, at this point, were you, like, looking at the.

[Sydney]

He's a sociopath. Yeah. I mean, he's a. Yeah. At this point, I was saying I think he's a sociopath. Like, now we have. Now we're in a different level, but again, we're also in Covid.

[Anara]

And you're stuck together.

[Sydney]

I'm stuck. I'm stuck.

[Hannah]

It's not a good time to start. Covid with. I just found out my husband of seven years, eight years. How long had it been at that point?

[Sydney]

Is this like, seven years? Yeah. Cool.

[Anara]

Wow.

[Hannah]

I love that for you.

[Sydney]

Right? It was terrifying because it was very creepy because it's like, how did I share a bed with someone that. It was very scary because you don't know what someone's capable of when you realize they're capable of that.

[Anara]

Yes.

[Sydney]

Because there was no red flags. He intentionally built two separate lives, and it was like, I never saw porn on anything with him. I never saw it, like, any indication

[Anara]

of what he would do.

[Sydney]

Any indication. And that was intentional because he had to go to great lengths to hide it. There were no red flags. Like, when I tell you he was not the charmer. He was not. He was not out to, like, get women's attention, get women's phone numbers. There was no. There was no thing.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

There was no. Like, oh, well, yeah, this is a player. Oh, no, he was not a player. It was not a player. I mean, I think it was just like, how is this my life? What is going on? Right? Like, what is happening in my life? So, like, he starts getting angry now the temper comes out. Like one day he threw something across the room. When you throw something across the room when you're that big, it's kind of creepy, right?

[Hannah]

It's like a different God.

[Sydney]

And one day I confronted him and instead of saying anything back, like, now he's pissed. Now he's pissed because this has nothing to do with you. This is not your business. Shut the hell up. This is my life. Leave me alone. What are you going to do about it? Like, that's what I was now dealing with. And so I'd be like, I'm not going to take this. And he's like, well, what are you going to do? Right? You have no job, you have no family here. And at this point, I was actually in, like, I went back to college, I was in college online and I was getting another degree and doing things. I had a life before him, you know what I mean? I was successful before him. And so I knew I was living right and I was taking steps. But like, my little part time, 10 hour a week gig was not enough. So literally to him it was like, what are you going to do? Okay, you don't like it, what are you going to do? At one point he was like, if you would just shut the hell up, everything would be fine. This is a problem because you have a problem.

[Hannah]

This is kind of archaic.

[Sydney]

And I have this moment when talking to the counselor who began using the word abuse and she was these things. And I went, oh my God. Like, wait. First. First he moved me away, then he became a stay at home mom. And all of these things were looking like they were for me. I want to be home more. I don't want to travel as much. I want you to be able to take care of the kids.

[Anara]

Oh my God. So you have to make it their idea. If you want somebody to go along with something they want, you want to do it for them.

[Sydney]

I think there was a part of him that really was telling himself he was doing great things. He was just a good husband because he was letting me. Because again, his behavior had nothing to do with me. So I was thinking about, like, where did this all go wrong? And in my head, I kept going back to it. It never went wrong. This is how he always lived. Like, reconciling that was probably one of the hardest things. So I'm upstairs one day with the girls and I went in the bedroom and I confronted him. And I was like, okay, so clearly this hasn't stopped. This is continuing on. And you need to take your shit and get out. And I don't care where you go, but you need to leave. And he started getting angry, and I was getting afraid, and I was like, I already packed a bag. It's in the garage. Go, like, leave. You're. You're leaving now, where I'm calling the police because you're scary and you've broken shit. And now I'm done with it. He walks downstairs, and as he's leaving, I heard what sounded like a freight train coming through the house. He ripped the. The door. The steel door that goes to the garage from the house. He ripped it off the hinges. Oh, my God. You know, the strength. Strong boy, Incredible hawk. So when that happens, I don't know what he did. So I come flying down the steps, and I've got the girls who fly down the steps, and I grab them, and he's screaming like, you need to take your and get the out. Like, you should have packed your bag. I'm not going anywhere. This is my home. And the minute he said, this is my home, I realized, like, well, yeah, it's our home, but it is just his name, right? So, no, I called the bank and I was like, I used to own my own home. I used to have a job, and now I'm working part time and I have my. My stuff. But, like, I haven't had anything in my name in seven or eight years. I need to rebuild my credit.

[Hannah]

Like, what do I do?

[Sydney]

They were great. Like, the woman was like, go buy a car. Buy a car for, like, $6,000. Get a loan in your name. The she. We set up a separate account. Like, this lady from the bank. I hardly had to say anything. I was like, I need to get things in my name. I need to get my ducks in a row. Because again, we're in Covid. They know people are going through shit. Yeah. So I start kind of establishing myself financially and tucking away things. So, you know, I did, like, get my. Like, I earned a master's and I just kept going and building my credit. And then one day, he has this complete come to Jesus. He is ready to change his life. He is.

[Anara]

He.

[Sydney]

He is going to admit all the things he is going to tell. He is going to go to the counselor and say, like, I know that I've been doing this wrong. A counselor had brought up the word abuse to me at this point. She had. This is actually abusive. This is abusive behavior. And I'd be like, Whatever, you know, he's crazy. I'm not being abused. That's how I saw it.

[Hannah]

Accepting that you're being abused almost feels like you're accepting that you're a victim. And it certainly sounds like that's not something you ever wanted to be, nor does anybody want to be. It's, like, very uncomfortable to be told like, you're a survivor, you're being abused.

[Sydney]

Yes. And I think there's a part of me that was like, he truly was a victim. Like, I kept going back to his childhood, and when I tell you he truly was a victim. So, like, yes, he did all this stuff, but, I mean, frankly, I don't know how he got through some of what he did. So it wasn't that I felt sorry for him. It was just the fact was, you know what I mean? So I just. I dealt with therapists, and I dealt with pastors, and he had this whole, like, okay, I'm changing, changing. And one of our daughters was very into animals at the time. They became kind of like, emotional support for her. And we had discussed maybe moving to some property, getting a farm, whatever. And so he says, let's do it. I am a changed man. Let's buy the farm. That was the dumb move I made. But anyway, so, no, we're nearing the end of COVID I believe he is a changed person. We put an offer on a farm. It's great. I mean, before we moved, we were packing stuff up, and, like, he got my wedding gown out, and he was like, try this on, and I try it on. And he sent a picture to my mom and was like, look at how beautiful she is. He was. He was a new man. New leaf turned over.

[Anara]

Oh.

[Sydney]

We moved to the house about three weeks later. It ramps up like a bat out of hell.

[Anara]

No.

[Sydney]

What happened?

[Anara]

Mad. Oh, God.

[Sydney]

He was angry. He didn't care when he came and went. He did. He wasn't gonna answer to me. Like, it was suddenly like, oh, it never changed it. Right? And I was like, what's going on? And he kind of smirked and was like, well, what are you gonna do about it? Like, you can't handle this on your own.

[Anara]

Oh, my God. What are you gonna do?

[Sydney]

Take this from the kids?

[Hannah]

Did he know that you were starting to make moves to be more financially independent?

[Sydney]

He did not really.

[Hannah]

I wonder if he, like, had an inkling or something, because it sounds like maybe he was like, let me be what she needs me to be so I can trap her again.

[Sydney]

Well, he did. Yeah. He.

[Anara]

He.

[Sydney]

I mean, his whole. And honestly, his whole thing was, now he's got me in a bigger mortgage with more responsibility, with a bigger home to take care of, where guess what I don't have neighbors right there. Oh, yeah.

[Anara]

And the isolation.

[Sydney]

Our daughters, their dream. What am I gonna do? Take them away from them?

[Anara]

No.

[Sydney]

So it was very much like, he was super callous, like, what are you gonna do about it? There's nothing you can do about it unless you want to ruin this dream for the kids. They've already now survived, Covid. They don't have family right here. You've gotten them this life, and now you're gonna rip it away. I can't believe you're gonna do that to them.

[Anara]

Oh, my God.

[Sydney]

So I find one of the agreements. Agreements when he was like, come to Jesus. Moment was he would allow me to somewhat have financial control over the household budget. We agreed to that. So when we were getting the mortgage for this new home, he agreed that there would be an account. He, like, signed something like, the counselor was like, let's make an agreement that there would be an account that the household expenses came from. Went into. He had no access to. And a certain percentage of his paycheck would always go into that. And that gave me comfort and going, like, even if he goes off the rails, I can handle this. And that was something not even up for debate. Like, he was like, yes, I'll totally do this. We were in our house for probably three and a half months, and I was cooking, and all of a sudden he came in and he sat down at the counter, and he was like, yeah, so that account, like, he starts asking questions about it. And I was like, I don't know. Like, it's used for this. We don't have cards. And he was like, well, I just. You know how much is in there? And I'm like, you can look at how much you put in. I wasn't thinking anything of it. And I was like, I don't know what you're asking. That's not. You don't have access to that. That was the agreement. And he just said, well, that's not working for me anymore. And I was like, no, no, I'm sorry, but you're not touching it. And he crossed his hands, like, calm as could be with his little smirk. And he's like, well, that. That's not working for me anymore. And I don't feel safe if you're going to control me financially and not let me to have access to my money. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't care if you, you don't feel safe. And he's.

[Hannah]

That's weaponizing the therapy for sure.

[Sydney]

So he calmly says, if you do not give me access to that account now, I'm going to walk in the other room and tell the girls we're getting divorced. And I said, well, go do what you got to do.

[Hannah]

Good for you.

[Sydney]

And he walked in the other room and he sat down and he said, I'm going to divorce your mom because she doesn't treat me like a grownup.

[Hannah]

How did that feel for you?

[Sydney]

Well, I walked in the room and I sat down. My girls and I had a very strong bond. And my one daughter was like, you're mean. Like, you're mean. And no wonder mom doesn't treat you like a grown up. You act mean. Like she was like, it was very, very proud of her.

[Hannah]

Oh my gosh.

[Sydney]

And so he says he's gonna leave and where is he gonna go? He doesn't know. And he looks her dead in the eyes and he said, and I'm taking the dog. Well, what did she use for emotional support?

[Hannah]

The dog. So that's cruel. That's cruelty.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

And that was really what did it for me of when I was like, this person would never be my friend. Why would they be my husband? Who does that to someone? So I said, he had an ultimatum. He had to go check himself into an inpatient facility for a month. And I would consider any kind of conversation because at this point I'm like, he's gone off the deep end. He's gone off the deep end. And you don't really want to divorce someone that's in the crazy state. Right? Because you gotta get em a little more calm. Because when they're off the rails, nothing good's gonna happen. People don't get better when they divorce. They get worse. I don't want worse.

[Hannah]

When they're like, let me take the dog, let me take. They're like either vindictive or unpredictable. I totally get it. Especially given that he's the financial provider at this point.

[Sydney]

And I can play him a little now. Like I can. I'm right. Cause I've had a couple years of practice of this with him. And so I'm like, look, I'm gonna give you a month to go get your together. I called an inpatient facility. They had an opening right away. I bought him a plane ticket, sent him a plane the next day for the, For a month. There he is, of course, acting there like he wants to change, but the same thing. Like, the therapists are kind of seeing the same behavior because we would have, like, family meetings where I would have to get on. And he comes back. He's, like, angry. Like, he came back and it was no different. It was no different. And I tell him one day, like, do you understand what this is doing to the kids? Do you understand what you're doing to your children? Like, you.

[Anara]

Like, he doesn't care.

[Sydney]

This is what he said. And I will never. I will never. He said they are collateral damage.

[Anara]

Oh, my God. He's never. Never again. Would he see them again. He. You are. If that's what you think of them, you.

[Sydney]

They'll be fine. And if you would just shut up, everything would be fine. But now you've created this mess where, yeah, I guess they are getting hurt. What are you gonna do, split them up now? Make them go back and forth? When he said that, I was like, he's a sociopath. Like, what in the world is happening?

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

So I call the mental health facility because I had power of attorney, whatever it is, open his records, and I asked them to release his records to me. And they're like, which ones? And I go, everything. I want to read everything. And there's this note that a therapist wrote and said, yes, he has had childhood trauma. Yes, it was extreme. But instead of using all of the help and resources that have been offered to him, he continues to use it as an excuse to gaslight, manipulate and abuse his wife and family. Yes, there it is.

[Hannah]

Sums it up.

[Sydney]

When I read that, I was like, here we go. Okay. So he alternates between this, like, eerie calm and this explosive rage. We're still in the home at the same time together. Because I need a plan now. Like, I need a. What do we do now next? Yeah, And I had some things gathered, but he would be super calm to where your hair is, like, standing up on your arms because you don't know what's going to happen to throwing a coffee mug across the room if you said something he didn't like, oh, my God. Yeah. And never hit me. But one day I look at him and I'm like. I swear, it's like, you. You just act like, everyone be better off if I were dead. And he goes, well, we would be.

[Hannah]

See, that's. I mean, saying.

[Anara]

Why is he saying that he doesn't

[Sydney]

care about anyone but himself.

[Hannah]

Well, I think it's. I'm glad you mentioned, like, he didn't hit me because we talk about this a lot where we Have a very clear picture of what abuse looks like. Physical abuse, specifically. And abuse takes so many different forms. It can be death by a thousand cuts. Last episode we talked about that. It can be repeatedly saying something like that. Like, that is such emotional abuse to say that to you.

[Sydney]

Yeah, it was really bad. And he was not okay. Like, I was waiting for him to snap. So I took the girls and I went in one of their bedrooms and we closed the door. And I was ready to talk to them. And I was like, we have to do something. I'm gonna take you. He had family that lived in the state, and that family knew what was going on. I was like, I'm gonna drive you to their house now. It was like 11 o' clock at night. Like, mom's gonna take you there. Mom's gonna figure out what happens next. But, like, dad is not safe. Dad is not okay. I'm sorry, but, like, we have to do this. And they were like, okay, like, they understood. And so I am in there calmly talking with them, and I hear this little knock on the door. This is the part that still, to this day, makes my stomach turn. So I hear this, like, knock on the door. And it was very, you know, faint. And I was like, oh, we'll be out in a couple minutes. We're just talking. And he's like, well, I'm gonna come in.

[Anara]

No, you're not.

[Hannah]

No, no.

[Sydney]

And I said, no, we're just having a conversation. Like, we'll be out soon. And he said, you're not gonna talk to my kids without me. So fuck, I'm not my kids. Oh, boy. So calm. And he opened up the door and he walked in. And when he walked in, my one daughter went toward her closet, like, to go into her closet. And my other daughter kind of, like, went to go under the bed.

[Hannah]

Oh.

[Sydney]

Like, I grew up like that. And so I knew it wasn't the first time they'd done that. Oh. And I never, like, knew.

[Hannah]

Oh, I'm so sorry.

[Sydney]

So he walked in the room and it was this moment where God was like, if you get out of this, you can never let them get in this again. Like, I knew at that moment he was capable of anything. And if we made it out, I could never be in that position again. So I, like, grabbed one and kind of, like, slowly inch her toward the door. He had come and sat on the edge of the bed at that point. He was still super calm. And so I was waiting for him to blow. I got the other one. And I'm kind Of moving her toward the door. And he breaks out crying.

[Anara]

Oh, bless.

[Sydney]

Tears.

[Hannah]

Shaking.

[Sydney]

I'm like, he is totally unstable. He's totally unstable. I get them downstairs, I get them in the car, I drive them to family's house. I dropped them off. And family's like, why don't you stay here, too? Because. Right. But I knew all of my evidence I had been collecting, he would go burn.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

My year is a print. Right. And so I have to go back home because this is it. That's my. That's my out.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

I went back home. And when I went back home, he was actually asleep. And we had slept. Slept in different floors. I mean, weren't even. And he took sleeping pills to sleep. And so I knew he was out cold. And I, like, locked that area where he was in. Like, I put a chair against the door. Like, I did whatever I could.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

And, I mean, I didn't go to sleep, but I spent at night gathering everything. I got the fire safe out. I put papers in it. I put birth certificates, all of the kids stuff. Everything I needed, I put in there. And I filed a protective order. And I kept thinking, but he's never hit me.

[Anara]

Yep. He's never hit me. He's never abused me.

[Sydney]

And there's even a question on there that says, has he ever been violent toward you? And ready, here's how blind we can be. I actually wrote no, because he might have thrown a door, but it didn't hit me. That's how in it you get.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Sydney]

I was like. Because I'm thinking, But other women have been beat to have hope either. No, he hasn't been violent toward me. That's why I wrote one page, and I said, he is not mentally well. He is dealing with these things. I have evidence from a therapist saying he. He is going to continue this behavior. I was asking him to please leave the room. Please give us peace. He would not leave the room. And I was like, I just want peace for my daughters. And I. He is terrorizing us. Like, I don't know what to do, but I need help. This was right around Christmas, so courts were closed for a couple days because it was a weekend and a holiday. And when they reopened on that Monday, I get a call from them, and they're like, does he own the home with you? And I said, yeah. And the lady goes, well, then I just want to let you know it's not real common to make someone that owns a home leave. So if he does get removed, it might be for, like, six weeks. So you need a plan. Like, I just want to let you know. And I'm like, okay. About two hours later, I get a text, because the court can text you updates. And I open the account, and it says, they granted the protective order for 12 months, no hearing.

[Anara]

Wow, that's good.

[Sydney]

I had. I had filed it as an emergency, like an ex parte order based upon his mental instability. I said that he'd been in an inpatient facility, that we'd been in therapists. We've been counselors. Like, he's ready to blow, and I don't know what he's gonna do. So when that happened, I knew it was bad. I was like, holy crap. They know it's bad. The court knows it's bad, and they just made this man leave his home for a year. Like, that's not.

[Hannah]

So you feel like you really. You needed that kind of validation in order to even validate your own feelings. It's so real.

[Sydney]

So he files a motion to have the protective order removed. And of course, then I'm sick to my stomach. I'm like, yeah. And so I log on because everything's still virtual. So, like, Covid is ending, right? Covid's over, but over, but everything still hadn't opened all the way.

[Anara]

Right.

[Sydney]

So judge logs on. I'm on. We're waiting for him. Waiting for him, waiting for him. Fifteen minutes goes by, and he doesn't show up. So they go on record, and the guy's like, well, clearly, he's not real serious about dropping this. So it's in place. So we go off the record. And as we go off the record, the man's like, I just want to tell you I have a background in mental health. Before I had a background in the law. He's like, I read your protective order three times, and you're doing the right thing. You need to protect you and your kids.

[Anara]

That validation.

[Sydney]

There was more validation. Yeah. From an unbiased source that sees it all. I think that's it. The courts see it all. Do you know what I mean?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

So I was terrified to file for divorce. It took me probably six months because I just was like, I need him as calm. I need to be able to control the dialogue as much as possible.

[Hannah]

Were you living at the house still? Where was he? Where were you?

[Sydney]

I was. I was living at the house, and the girls were with me, so I filed for divorce. He makes me terrified. He's like, I will hire a nanny to raise the girls before you do. Oh, well, that's how you know, he's

[Hannah]

out of his right mind, because what is obviously best for the children again,

[Sydney]

their collateral damage, Right?

[Anara]

Crazy, right?

[Sydney]

This is what. It kept rain in my head, like, over and over. So I knew he would. He. I'd put nothing past him. Their collateral damage. He's got nothing to lose. Like, he'll do anything he can to take me out. And so he had agreed in writing to give me a certain amount of years to buy him out of the house. And of course, we go before the judge virtual, and he changes that, right? Then he decides it's only six months, and if I want any more than that, he's gonna go for weekends with the kids.

[Anara]

Oh, my God.

[Sydney]

My attorney was like, it is wise to show that you are not trying to isolate them. And she was like, if we offer a weekend. And I'm like, I can't offer a weekend. They cannot be there from Friday to Sunday. They will not be okay. Like, you don't understand. And she goes, we really should offer, like, two overnights. I said, offer two overnights. Not consecutive. That I have to approve. And he signed it.

[Anara]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sydney]

He never asked for a single one.

[Anara]

Are you serious? They really were just collateral.

[Sydney]

It was all about control. He wanted me terrified. He wanted me to believe I was going to lose the house. I mean, he would send me text messages and be like, you need to be realistic about this. You're never going to keep that.

[Anara]

Wow. How. How. What are the. How are the girls? Like, what. What is. What is their take on that?

[Sydney]

So, like, I took this approach the minute he got removed from the home of, like, this is not our shame. And this. I don't have to do this alone. And so I called the school where the girls were attending, and I talked to their teachers, and I was like, I need to let you know what's going on in our house, and I need you to let me know if my kids are not okay. Like, I always believed in putting adults in their lives. I never made them feel like they had to keep it secret. I'm like, this is not your shame. This is not yours. He is a problem. He brought it in our home. He is not in our home anymore. We will not carry the shame. We will not live in a secret. I just had to face it, Otherwise I was going to feel ashamed. So I told the teachers, and I, you know, I didn't give them all the drunk, but I just said, like, their. Their dad's been removed from the home. I want you to know, in case they Seem not okay. If you feel like they need a counselor. If you feel like it's okay, tell me whatever my children need. I, you know, this was a new neighborhood, like a new area, and you

[Anara]

see them every day. So help me help my kids.

[Sydney]

And I told a woman that lived, like, the next street over, I had befriended her, and I was like, you know, your kids are gonna come over to my house and play. I need to tell you, there's no dad here. You know, we live in a place where everybody's like, married, picket fence. I was like, I'm the single mom and this is what we're going through. And she was amazing.

[Hannah]

So about chosen family.

[Anara]

Yep.

[Sydney]

Yeah. So about a month later, I got an email from one of the girls kids that said how much of a difference they saw in her. She's taking risks, she's being brave.

[Anara]

They're not afraid anymore.

[Sydney]

And I mean, they were never a problem in school. Like, it's not like they. But they held back because they were afraid.

[Anara]

Oh, man.

[Sydney]

And when that was gone, they could

[Anara]

let their light shine.

[Sydney]

When I got that email again, oh,

[Anara]

I just got full body chills. Oh, my gosh.

[Sydney]

It was like another confirmation, you know what I mean, of this is what we need to do. And, like, I hated it was what we needed to do. So after a while, you know, the divorce happens, and my girls would want to talk about it a lot. And I would always reframe the story. Like, this is not your fault. His behavior is about him. I would say, like, I'm pretty awesome. I don't know why he did this to me. He did it to me. He did it to you. Has nothing to do with us. Right. I kept it very like, this is not. When people choose something, it's always about them. It's not about you.

[Anara]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sydney]

We were not going to be victims.

[Anara]

You're sounds like you're raising strong women.

[Sydney]

I'm trying.

[Anara]

That's incredible.

[Sydney]

Thank you.

[Anara]

What advice would you give your daughters

[Sydney]

about protecting yourself from dogfish like this? Get your education, because no one can take that from you. Have some sort of group, whether you're like, volunteering or like. And I wasn't, like, big on college. Right. I just know that that saved my life. So, like, get your. Educate. Get something that, like, if you're not going to have a job, have something else that's an endorsement and so that's a degree. And then the next part is have a network of some kind. Volunteer somewhere, serve somewhere. So that way if you need a job at some point you can start telling people, hey, I need work. This is going on. I need work. And if you have a network and you can do that, I mean, everything you touch is experience. So if you're a mom and you're like running a show at church, guess what? Put it on a resume. You can still build a resume. You can do something once a month for three hours and it can counts.

[Anara]

Yes.

[Sydney]

Like, put it all down and get some people in your corner. Like, and they can be in your family's corner that if you need to go to them and say, I need you to make some phone calls because I need a job tomorrow. That is the thing. Be a mom, stay home, but keep the connections. Keep the. Don't isolate. Yeah. Keep the connections of who you are and what your gifts are and get something that people can't take, which to me is the degree. Like, and that is they can do. Yeah.

[Anara]

I think that's what. Why abusers like to isolate their victims because they don't want them to have those connections. And so that's why it's important. Even if you, if you want to be a stay at home mom, at least you have a place to go. If you do need to seek work, it's, you know, you have someone there, and so it's that isolate. And you don't realize you're being isolated most of the time. Oh, no.

[Sydney]

Do you think that you're being given freedom to just love your children?

[Anara]

So, yeah. And so the advice that you would give to your daughters is the same. Like, you could be a stay at home mom. Just keep your connections, maintain your education 100%.

[Sydney]

You should always have credit in your name. That was one thing. Like, I had such a good foundation. Then I gave that up and I had to rebuild it because I didn't have anything in my name. So even if it's a cell phone, like, keep something in your name that says you're a person with a Social Security number and you have a bank. Yeah. And I would say that's a red flag. He didn't push me to give up everything I did willingly because I trusted him. But, like, if someone's kind of pushing you, let me just handle all this. No, that. Because someone should want you to be your own person too.

[Anara]

Yes, absolutely. That's really good advice.

[Sydney]

So, I mean, he's made his whole life with his new family. Now.

[Hannah]

I was gonna say, where is he now?

[Anara]

Yeah. So let's. Oh, boy.

[Sydney]

I mean, he literally, like, this is how his children found out where he was like. Literally, they just saw him one day, and there were car seats in his car, and he was like, oh, yeah. Moved in with her kids. No shit.

[Anara]

Oh, not his kids. But someone. So had kids, and he moved in. He moved them.

[Sydney]

They didn't even know he was dating someone. They didn't know he was dating someone. And that's how he revealed, hey, I'm dating someone. And her and her kids moved in. So that was really hard for the girls because part of why they were okay was like, well, he's not doing anything with anyone. He's just.

[Anara]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Now it feels like we've been replaced.

[Sydney]

Well, yeah, because you don't have time with.

[Anara]

Right.

[Sydney]

So, like, that sucked.

[Anara]

Oh.

[Sydney]

But again, it was sort of like, what do you expect? Why would we expect something better from someone bad?

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Once you shift expectations of certain people, a lot of healing can come.

[Anara]

A lot of healing.

[Hannah]

I think that's like, once you see

[Sydney]

who they are, you can't unsee it.

[Anara]

Yeah. You can't. There's.

[Sydney]

He was this way before me. Like, I still. In my head, I'm like, why? Like, what in the world? Who does that? Right? Anyway, so you guys have this, like, catfish. Dogfish term. And so when I would listen to your show, I would tell my friends, like, he's the jellyfish. Because he's, like, slimy.

[Hannah]

I love.

[Sydney]

It seems. He seems totally transparent because there's not much substance to him.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Sydney]

But then there's, like, this sting.

[Anara]

There's a stingy. Mm.

[Sydney]

And so that. That is what I have coined him as. As I think of.

[Anara]

He's a jellyfish.

[Sydney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So real. The way that you fell in love, too, is so interesting and sad because it's nice to be able to come away from these stories and say, oh, we learned that we should take our time. We learned that we should maybe check in with our communities around them and that there are stories where there's really. It's not like there's anybody can do. And I hope people don't blame themselves at any of these episodes, because even if there are flags, the problem is that the jellyfish or the dogfish or the catfish is doing the behavior. That's the problem. We are not the problem.

[Sydney]

Now, you seem.

[Anara]

Sydney, you seem like you've had it. Like, you kind of kept yourself together because you had to the whole time. Was there ever a time when you just, like, kind of lost it and broke down, or were you just, like, kind of steadfast?

[Sydney]

Like the day when I walked the girls down to the neighbor's house and I laid on the kitchen floor. That day broke down, there were definitely. Oh, yeah, there were days that I threw up. I lost a ton of weight. But you know what I did? I kept working. I kept. And I remember at one point my boss was like. Because no one ever knew about this. And then I said, I'm going to miss work today because I have to go to the courthouse. Like, that's how I told him I have to pick up a protective order. And he was wonderful. And he said, what do you need? And I said, I need you to treat me like a professional, because here, that's what I can be.

[Hannah]

Yep.

[Sydney]

Don't ask me how are you in this pathetic way. Ask me how I am. Like, please let me be strong here, because I have to have somewhere. I'm strong because I have someone outside of here telling me I'm not.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Sydney]

So, like, keep. End that I will say, like, if I could. You are not just that. Like, that is something in your life, but it will be gone. And the rest of your things are going to be what hold you together. Because sometimes I hear these stories, and I'm like, this man, like, totally sucked in there. No, don't give him any more space than he has to occupy, because you're not just that. And that was my sanity. Like, I did love him to my core. I did want to have a life with him. But when I knew no matter what I did, I couldn't, I decided, what can be in my life. I can control my career. I can control my education. I can care for my children. I can control my health. This thing is a thing that's going to go away. Life was there before him, and, like, good riddance.

[Anara]

Thank you for my babies. Goodbye.

[Hannah]

Pretty much, you lost your privilege.

[Anara]

That was your purpose in my life, was to give me these beautiful children and. Well, goodbye.

[Sydney]

Thank you.

[Hannah]

Hi, Anara.

[Anara]

Thank you. So have this beautiful gift. Goodbye.

[Sydney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

You're amazing. I loved hearing your story.

[Sydney]

Thank you so much.

[Hannah]

That was incredible.

[Sydney]

This guy.

[Hannah]

And thank your friend for connecting you to us, because I hope some of these episodes have made you feel like, oh, yeah.

[Sydney]

She's like, you have to go on this show. And I was like, that is not. I don't do that. And she's like, no, you have to.

[Anara]

Right?

[Sydney]

She's like. So I started listening, and then I heard a couple stories that I was like, well, that really resonates. And so I was talking to my best friend. She was like, you will save someone's Life, like, you have to go tell this. It's all. It's a different story we talk about

[Anara]

that is the sense of community. Because you never know when what happened to you will save someone else. It's incredible the experiences that people had, have shared after hearing different guests. So thank you so much.

[Sydney]

You're welcome. Thank you guys for doing this. I think it's very easy to become small when you're going through something like this.

[Anara]

Yes.

[Sydney]

And I did become small. And I'm just at a place in my life where I'm not going to be small anymore and I'm going to take up the space that I deserve. And so I was like, this is not airing dirty laundry. No, this is helping someone. So I feel like when you come out on the other side, like, don't be worn out. You have arrived, you have survived. Like, go. You know, that's how I feel. I'm like, seriously, bring it.

[Hannah]

Because you have survived, you have arrived.

[Anara]

Yes.

[Sydney]

Yes.

[Anara]

That was highly educational.

[Hannah]

I'm obsessed with her and I like,

[Anara]

dude, she's a baddie. Like, she held it together. And I think it's that, first of all, I think that's part of it.

[Hannah]

Mama strength, like the strongest. And one thing I kind of said, but I'm thinking about it, just if someone's listening to this story in the middle of leaving an abuser and you're worried about how it's affecting your family and your kids. I just like hearing the way that her kids thrived after this horrible decision she had to make.

[Anara]

I had full body chills.

[Hannah]

Full body chills. And it's just like there is, there is another side to it and it could be the right thing. And as hard as it is in the middle of it, the hard thing was the right thing. And that is so powerful for anybody that maybe is in the middle isn't quite there yet. You know, I.

[Anara]

She is just. I think she is so rad. And I loved the advice that she was giving about how to. How you can still do the stay at home mom thing and raise your babies or do whatever you want to do and not allow yourself to be stuck there. Which I thought was really empowering.

[Hannah]

Let's definitely talk about that because even we weren't really recording, but we were talking about stay at home mom versus domestic engineer versus. You know, there's all these ways to think of that title because it is a full time job, like you're working. And I think it's the right choice for so many people. How do we do that while still protecting ourselves. Because like she said, you should trust your partner. But it doesn't have to be about trust. You don't have to be like, oh, I just. In case I end up on the dating detective someday. That's why I'm gonna have my secret fund in case I need to leave.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

It could also just be, you don't know what's gonna happen. Your partner could lose their job all of a sudden, somebody could get sick or die. Like, knock on wood. I know, but it's just like, we always have to have a plan. We always have to have a plan just in case. Especially as parents.

[Anara]

Yes, especially as parents. Because your babies are going to need your babies. Just imagine your kids need you fully, and you need to be able to take care of them. And also when you. In order to do that, you have to maintain connections. And to maintain those connections, you can't be isolated. So if you feel isolated to the point you're losing connections, that can be dangerous. So do your best to keep those connections that if you do need to get a job or you need some help, you have those connections there.

[Hannah]

The listing. Just the specific advice you talked about for somebody who maybe isn't going to work in their relationship. Like, get your education because no one can take that away from you. Networking and have people in your corner. I wrote down, just keep your resume updated, which people forget to do, but

[Anara]

it's not ready to go. Yeah.

[Hannah]

Having a life outside of whatever it is that you do most of the time. A hobby, volunteering something to build something skills or contribute in that way. Keep your name on things, have your credit. I mean, that was. That's huge. Even if it's just the phone and your name, just keep. Keep that going also. I mean, like, don't maybe put the house in only one of your name. Like, yeah, my.

[Anara]

So my husband, actually, he. We got a VA loan for the house and he just did his name alone. And so his name is on the mortgage. But then he made sure. Well, we both made sure my name was on the thing, the. The official document for the house. So I'm on the house, but because it was the VA and he's the vet, it went through them and he. Whatever. So his name is on the mortgage, my name is on the house. So I am an owner in this house.

[Hannah]

Hell yeah. And I mean, how wonderful that he was like, obviously a good partner and wanted to do that with you.

[Anara]

Like, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Like, and if he demanded I'd be like, no, you're. Why?

[Sydney]

Why?

[Hannah]

Well, yeah, the why is. I mean, it sounds like anytime he. He didn't do that, going up, leading up to it. But after all hell broke loose, he just wanted control. But can you talk about how he didn't do red flag stuff?

[Sydney]

There was no red flags.

[Anara]

He was such a good guy. There was nothing that concerned her.

[Sydney]

And if.

[Anara]

If she hadn't found the. With his passwords, she might have never known.

[Hannah]

That's crazy to think about. And he could have continued living just being like, this is separate. This is completely separate, not part of our marriage. People really will tell themselves anything to justify their actions. And I know that's like a human trait, but you still know right from wrong if you're a good person. And he. Yeah, I mean, maybe he was a sociopath. I mean, he blamed. I mean, it comes up. Mental health, being on the autism spectrum. None of those things are directly correlated to this kind of behavior by any means. And I think it does a real disservice to people when they are used as an excuse for this behavior.

[Anara]

Yes. But also just the fact that he was never concerned or showed any concern about anything ever. And when she came to him with it, he was like, I didn't do that. And then she's like, yeah, you didn't. He's like, no, I didn't. She's like, yeah, you did. Here's the proof. And he goes, oh, well, if you didn't. If you didn't ask. So I didn't tell you, like, what?

[Hannah]

It's so crazy. But I feel for her the feeling of, oh, he's so level. And that's something I'm attracted to because it's stable.

[Anara]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

But that was confused with some severe apathy.

[Anara]

Yes, it was.

[Hannah]

That's hard. Also the fact that she said she felt like she was like his caretaker, like she. She felt, I think, his trauma, she had a lot of empathy for. And I want it to be so clear to people that just because somebody has trauma, you can have empathy for them and still recognize that their abuse is not justified.

[Anara]

Yes, absolutely.

[Hannah]

It's not your fault. It is your responsibility. It is your responsibility. You like to tell people.

[Anara]

And also, regardless of childhood past and traumas and all of that stuff, regardless of that, it wouldn't have made it okay in any stretch of the imagination. But it does help people kind of understand where you're coming from. And so I thought that was interesting that the therapist was like, yeah, that. That's not part of why he Knows this.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I'm so glad that they were able to validate that for her.

[Anara]

Yeah, she. And at the end, it sounds like she really did get the validation, but I'll be honest with you, she's a baddie, so I don't think she ever really needed a lot of it.

[Hannah]

It's true.

[Anara]

But it's like, I validate myself. Good for you. She really did, too.

[Hannah]

It's true. And I. But I think that's why it's so good to hear her story, because she is the person who you're like, she's so strong. Like, she doesn't need anything from anyone, and she can still go through something like this. She is not the stereotype of somebody who's been abused. She said it best. I mean, she was like, I was doing really well on the paper when this was happening, and that's what abuse can look like.

[Anara]

Yep. Yep. Absolutely. But she's. I. I loved her attitude. I love that she kept it. Kept the cool for her daughters. I love that her daughters learned that from her. They, you know, they learned that. I mean, kids are already resilient. But it's helpful when you see your mom not freaking out and you feel more comfortable not freaking out. That's kind of nice, right?

[Hannah]

Totally. Well.

[Anara]

Oh, I.

[Hannah]

Sorry. You just reminded me of something that I was thinking about. It's a little thing, but I think it's a big behavioral thing. Like, he wasn't freaking out, so I think you said, he's not freaking out, so why should I? And I was just thinking about how when you. You are acting freaked out, it just makes you look like the crazy one. And that's a way to kind of. They don't even have to say anything. Just by being calm, it gaslights you into thinking you're overreacting.

[Anara]

Yes, you're absolutely right. That's such a good point. And there's. Yes, that. That's a perfect description. Like, if he stays calm, then she's the one. She lashes out. She's the one that looks crazy.

[Hannah]

And it's not always that way. But honestly, I'm thinking about the TV show the Traitors. Like, this latest season, the traitor was, like, real calm. And I think he made everybody else just be like, I guess I. I guess everything's fine.

[Anara]

Then.

[Hannah]

That was, like, his whole tactic. So interesting.

[Sydney]

Interesting Sting.

[Hannah]

Something to think about.

[Sydney]

These.

[Hannah]

These stories always make me think about so much, which is why, I mean, follow us on social media Dating Detectives podcast. But we do get to have more ongoing conversations on Patreon with y'.

[Anara]

All.

[Hannah]

And I think, like, truly, I'm sometimes thinking about these stories months later and, like, oh, my gosh. New revelation.

[Sydney]

Yes.

[Hannah]

So it's nice to have a group of people who I know are also thinking about them a lot.

[Anara]

I know, right?

[Hannah]

Yeah, we have updates.

[Sydney]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

For real. And we do share updates when our guests can share them with us, and we definitely share them on Patreon when we can. So that's $5 a month for extra episodes. We meet on Zoom for book clubs. Sometimes we get to chat with everybody. You get early access to, like, merch and stuff. And then there's $9 a month with all of that. But girlfriend ad free. No ads, baby.

[Anara]

We love our Patreon or so. We have so much fun over there. So. Oh, and the new Patreon that's coming out, the next one, it's a special kind of Patreon the episode.

[Hannah]

Oh, I thought you were talking about, like, a new tier of our Patreon that I was like, no, I don't know what we were talking about.

[Anara]

There is a new Patreon episode coming out that you guys have to hear. We have a guest, and it's a little controversial, and I. I enjoyed this conversation. I think you guys will, too. So if you're not a. If you haven't joined Patreon, you probably will want to.

[Hannah]

This is a good time. This is a really good time.

[Anara]

It was wild.

[Hannah]

Well, we love you guys so much. Thank you for listening and sharing with your friends. That's how we met Sydney. That's how we meet so many of you. Because I think connecting with each other

[Sydney]

helps in these scenarios.

[Anara]

Network with each other, the sense of community. And we appreciate you guys so much. So thank you for listening. Thank you for being here and sharing us and sharing with us.

[Hannah]

And we love you, and as always, trust your intuition. It.