The Prophecy: Part 2

Summary

Summary of "The Prophecy: Part 2" – The Dating Detectives

Episode Released: December 2, 2024

Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Dating Detectives, hosts Mackenzie Fultz and Comedian Hanna Anderson delve deeper into the harrowing experiences of Jubilee, a brave survivor who shares her journey through an abusive relationship intertwined with a manipulative religious community. This episode sheds light on the complexities of recognizing abuse, especially within environments that exploit faith to control and manipulate.

Jubilee’s Story: From Hope to Horror

Recap of Part One

The episode begins with a brief recap of Jubilee's story from Part One. Jubilee, a young woman in her late teens and early twenties, was enrolled in a Christian school of supernatural ministry that espoused literal Bible interpretations and prophetic teachings. It was here that she met Ted, the charming janitor who captivated her and the community with his charisma and supposed prophetic connection.

Growing Relationship and Initial Signs of Abuse

As Jubilee and Ted's relationship blossomed, the community supported their union, especially after a religious figure proclaimed a prophecy about Jubilee being a special gift from God. However, beneath the surface, Ted's behavior began to deteriorate. Mackenzie reflects, “It’s so heartbreaking” ([00:55]).

By the time they moved to Atlanta, the abuse intensified. Jubilee describes how Ted's behavior shifted from humiliating to violently abusive. She recounts, “[He] likes really humiliates her and has some delusional beliefs” ([03:34]).

Escalation in Atlanta: Abusive Patterns Unveiled

In Atlanta, Ted's abuse became more sporadic but more severe. Jubilee explains how Ted would alternate between periods of apparent calm and intense outbursts. “[He] would be really good for a few weeks and then there would be a big blow up, abusive incident” ([04:04]).

A pivotal moment occurs when Ted violently strangles Jubilee during an argument, marking the first instance where she recognizes the gravity of their relationship. She shares, “...this is something different. This is not a normal relationship” ([10:52]).

Impact of External Events and Isolation

The Chris Watts case, where a seemingly good man committed heinous crimes, serves as a catalyst for Jubilee's realization of the severity of her situation. She reflects, “if he did end up killing me, there are so many red flags that I am ignoring” ([11:37]).

Ted’s increasing control extended to manipulating Jubilee’s medical needs. She reveals, “[He] was constantly trying to make my fibromyalgia worse” by tampering with her sleeping medication ([04:04], [17:00]).

Seeking Help: The Turning Point

Feeling overwhelmed and fearful for her safety, Jubilee reaches out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline. She describes the transformative experience of validating her abusive relationship through a series of pointed questions from a hotline counselor:

"She ended up telling me that I had said yes to... [about] 11 or 12 of the 13 or 14 questions" ([48:32]).

This affirmation was crucial for Jubilee, helping her understand that she was indeed in an abusive relationship. She emphasizes the importance of external validation:

“...I need data. Yeah. In my face. To be like, this is the questionnaire, and this is what the results say” ([48:32]).

Final Breakdown and Escape

The culmination of abuse in public settings forced Jubilee to confront the reality of her situation. An incident at Disney World, where Ted publicly berated her and threatened her safety, acted as the final push for Jubilee to leave the relationship. She recounts:

“He tells me that I disrespected him as the man at the table... and he's going to strand me in Florida” ([37:19]).

Feeling unsafe and recognizing the manipulation, Jubilee made the courageous decision to call the domestic violence hotline and subsequently filed for divorce.

Aftermath and Reflection

Post-divorce, Jubilee reflects on the manipulation tactics used by Ted and the failure of the religious community to support victims. She discusses the realization of being part of a cult-like environment and the steps she took to reclaim her life, including seeking therapy and rebuilding her faith in a healthier, more personal way.

“I finally realized that I just did not feel like I could call anybody in my life... I ended up calling the domestic violence hotline” ([47:07]).

Advice and Insights

Jubilee shares valuable insights for listeners on recognizing the signs of abuse and the importance of seeking help. She recommends the book Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft, highlighting its role in helping her understand abusive behavior and empowering her to leave the toxic relationship.

“You wonder why you stayed... the book really helped me realize it was abusive” ([97:17]).

Discussion on Religious and Manipulative Abuse

The hosts and Jubilee delve into how religious beliefs can be manipulated to control and abuse partners. Jubilee critiques the exploitative use of prophecy and religious obligations to justify and perpetuate her abuse, urging listeners to trust their instincts and seek help when faith is used as a tool for manipulation.

“I hate it. I don't think anyone should ever do it because I just think that there's too much harm to be done in that space” ([62:18]).

Bystander Intervention and Community Responsibility

Towards the end, Mackenzie and Hanna discuss the role of bystanders in abusive situations, emphasizing the importance of speaking up and supporting victims. They reflect on Jubilee’s experience, encouraging listeners to become more vigilant and proactive in helping those who may be suffering in silence.

“Trust your femme tuition. And if anybody's using your belief system in a way that doesn't align with that, which I know it's hard” ([113:34]).

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a heartfelt acknowledgment of Jubilee’s bravery in sharing her story. Mackenzie and Hanna reinforce the importance of community support, awareness, and education in preventing and addressing abusive relationships. They encourage listeners to share their stories and seek resources if they find themselves in similar situations.

“The more we talk about it, the more we make it obvious. So let's keep talking about it” ([04:29]).

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Mackenzie: “It's so heartbreaking” ([00:55])
• Jubilee: “He knows that would directly cause me physical pain” ([04:12])
• Jubilee: “I need data. Yeah. In my face. To be like, this is the questionnaire, and this is what the results say” ([48:32])
• Jubilee: “I finally realized that I just did not feel like I could call anybody in my life” ([47:07])
• Jubilee: “...I need to say that I did not feel like I could call anybody in my life” ([44:56])

Key Takeaways

1. Recognizing Abuse: Abuse can manifest in various forms—physical, emotional, and manipulative—and may be difficult to identify, especially when coupled with periods of apparent normalcy or kindness.

2. Impact of Isolation: Controlling partners often isolate victims from their support systems, making it harder to seek help.

3. Role of External Validation: Reaching out to professionals, such as those at the National Domestic Violence Hotline, can provide crucial support and validation for victims.

4. Manipulative Use of Religion: Abusers may exploit religious beliefs to justify and perpetuate their control, making it essential to maintain personal agency and seek help when faith is used manipulatively.

5. Bystander Intervention: Community members play a vital role in supporting victims by recognizing signs of abuse and offering assistance without judgment.

6. Healing and Empowerment: Education, therapy, and connecting with supportive communities are key steps in healing from abusive relationships.

Resources Mentioned

• National Domestic Violence Hotline: [phone]
• Book Recommendation: Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft
• Domestic Violence Hotline: Jubilee emphasizes the importance and positive impact of reaching out for professional support.

Final Thoughts

"The Prophecy: Part 2" serves as a powerful testament to the resilience of survivors and the importance of awareness, support, and education in combating abusive relationships. Jubilee’s courage in sharing her story provides invaluable insights and hope for others facing similar struggles.

Transcript

[Hannah]

The following program contains names, places, and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic violence hotline at 1-800-799-7-7-7233 for support.

[Mackenzie]

Hello, dating detective Sleuthies.

[Hannah]

Hello, my Sleuthies. Hello, my little Sleuthies and your little husbands who listen from the other room and pretend that they didn't initially want to listen, but then came in too.

[Mackenzie]

So many people say that. It's so funny. I love it so, so much.

[Hannah]

Shout out to the dating detectives husbands. Thank you for being here.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, seriously, we're. I'm excited to be here for this. I don't know if excited is the right word.

[Hannah]

I know we always. We're. We're not excited, but we are grateful to be able to hear these stories.

[Mackenzie]

Yes, There it is. Yeah, we're grateful for that opportunity. So we love you guys for sharing these stories, but, gosh, sometimes they are so hard to hear. Right?

[Hannah]

Yeah. I mean, we were just. We'll get into part two. I know you're all like, get to part two, but we were just talking about how you all send us your stories as we ask, and we go through the DMs, and, you know, some of them are so fun and empowering, and some of them are really sad and hard. And we're here for all of it. Like, we're here for you. We are reading and hearing you, even if we don't have your story as a podcast episode. And glad that this can be a place where people feel comfortable sharing that, because we really, really care. Shall we recap part one of Jubilee's story so we can continue?

[Mackenzie]

Hannah, give us a recap.

[Hannah]

Okay. If I forget anything, jump in. So Jubilee is a young, young girl. I mean, 19, 20, I think, is when we started. And she was at a Christian school of supernatural ministry that had some, as you can imagine, supernatural beliefs, literal Bible interpretation. So they were really like. Like, I think I made a joke about, like, oh, is somebody going to walk on water? And she was like, no. Like, people thought they could. So it was that kind of school. And there was a lot of prophecy and religious influence in terms of who you can be with. Like, and people really wanted to find A partner spring. No ring by spring, which a lot of you have said you connected with or have experienced. So then she went to another school as like an internship and met Ted, fucking Ted, who was the church janitor and the charmer of the century. Just love bomb galore. They get engaged, especially after a religious figure said at a big event that he had a prophecy that God was giving him jubilee.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, like, that was like she was a special gift.

[Hannah]

Yeah, because we're gifts. I mean, we are gifts, but like not objects, you know what I mean? But yeah. So then she had the whole community rooting for their relationship and she really wanted it to work as one does. And he was great. I mean, he was like all these signs that he was awesome. So they get together and it becomes slowly more and more abusive. Isolating.

[Mackenzie]

He's like, it's so heartbreaking.

[Hannah]

Yeah. He likes really humiliates her and has some delusional beliefs. So where we left off is where he has told us that he wants to move to Atlanta to become a big shot, big time director. And own Disney.

[Mackenzie]

And own Disney. Own all. Like literally own all of Disney. Okay, fella.

[Hannah]

And she said that in Atlanta, the abuse started to become a little less frequent, but a little more violent.

[Mackenzie]

Violent.

[Hannah]

And we will find out where it goes. So. Yes, trigger warnings. Physical, emotional and religious abuse.

[Mackenzie]

Y'all.

[Jubilee]

Sure.

[Mackenzie]

This is hard to hear, just FYI.

[Hannah]

Yeah. But it is good to talk about as somebody, some people, some of you definitely said you notice a lot of the textbook signs of abusive relationships, which when you're 18 or 19, you're not as privy to usually. So.

[Mackenzie]

Right.

[Hannah]

Not that it's her fault, even if she was privy to them, because they're good at it.

[Mackenzie]

I think the more. And the more we talk about it, the more we make it obvious. So let's keep talking about it. Let's keep the conversation going.

[Jubilee]

On one hand, our marriage was getting a little bit better because I do think he was feeling more fulfilled, you know, whereas in Texas he was being abusive maybe every day. And in Atlanta it was more spurts. So he would be really good for a few weeks and then there would be a big blow up, abusive incident. And when I was in Texas, the abuse was happening more often. But when I was in Atlanta, it was more spread out. But every abusive incident was bad. It was just a lot of highs and lows. Those years are some of the best years of my life, despite everything that I went through with him, just because I made a lot of different friends. But it did Add to a lot of tension between us, because he didn't like that I was making friends outside of him. You know, the. The isolation of it all. He was afraid that I was going to turn liberal, which, unfortunately for him, I did. No, no, but it was. It was definitely a thing. When we were living in Atlanta, I had started seeing a rheumatologist, and they ended up deciding to do a sleep study on me, and they found that I was being, unquote, disturbed ten times an hour. So I was getting out of deep sleep 10 times an hour, and I was just not getting any good rest. So I would wake up in the morning and feel like I got hit by a bus, and I was just constantly in pain. So after I did the sleeping study, they ended up putting me on a sleeping medication. That way I could try to get sleep at night. And it was such a saving grace for me. I noticed a huge difference after this. It finally felt like my body was able to rest. And these pills, I had to go to see my doctor very often. And it was something that they tracked. So if I lost them or if something happened to them, you know, I can't just get more easily. And Ted would, at times, try to use that against me. So there were a couple times where he, during an argument, would take my sleeping pills, and he would run to the bathroom and try to float my sleeping pills down the toilet. So there was one time where I tried to get them out of his hand. He's, like, trying to flush them down the toilet. And in my mind, he knew what he was doing, which would be, if he flushes them down the toilet, I'm going to be in pain for the next month. And he knows that. He knows that that would directly cause me physical pain. So I had tried to get them out of his hand, and then he ended up saying, yeah, you. You, like, grabbed me, you know, And I'm like, I grabbed the pills out of your hand because you were about to flush my medication, you know? But he had a way of just making me feel absolutely crazy. And that's just a direct way that he was constantly trying to make my fibromyalgia worse. One thing he would do is try to ruin things for me the night before. And this is the first scary, scary incident. I had been working on that stand in set, and I had been so excited to do that job. And that's one thing with Ted, is whenever good things were happening in my life, there was always an abusive incident nearby. So I think I had gotten home really Late, because I'd been on set all day. And then I had to work at 6 in the morning the next day. And I don't remember what we were arguing about, but I was laying in bed and he ended up charging at me and he ended up strangling me, maybe for, I don't know, maybe 10 seconds or something like that. And he ended up standing up and throwing himself on the floor and crying and saying that he felt like such a bad person. And, I mean, at that point, I felt like what he had done could not be undone. I. I was very much reeling. But I think that that's the first time where I realized, oh, our dynamic is bad, you know, because I think that most people have been in abusive relationships could probably relate to the idea of, like, the incident that happens when you realized, oh, this is something different. This is not a normal relationship. Like, we have crossed some sort of boundary that you can't come back from. But to see him on the floor crying, there was this sense of me wanting to love him in a religious way, love him like Jesus would love him. I see this broken man on the floor, and I feel like it is my job to tell him that he is not such a bad guy. And in a way, I think that the church groomed me to be that way. Because when I was at Bethel, everybody has a different sector of ministry that they're interested in. You have people who are wanting to do children's ministry, youth ministry, people who want to live overseas. And when I was at Bethel, I had truly thought that it was my calling in life to love the unlovable. So the worst of the worst people, the people who are committing the worst crimes. I don't know where I got this idea, but in my mind I had it that this was my job, that I was going to love people who don't deserve it. So when I found myself in this marriage to Ted and he is abusing me, it almost felt like I needed to walk the walk. Like, here I am. I am in this situation where I am with someone who is truly in the wrong and truly unlovable. And this is my chance to prove that I believe in forgiveness, that I believe in grace. And I felt a heavy burden to do that and to love him through it, because I just saw him as a child, to be honest. You know, he's on the floor crying, and I was just like, oh, he's. He's so vulnerable. He's so sad. You know, he feels so bad. And I really let myself go there mentally so that night, we end up staying up really late, me telling him that it was okay.

[Mackenzie]

God, I am so sorry. That must have been so scary.

[Jubilee]

It was, you know, and I. I felt he did it, and I was just so in shock.

[Mackenzie]

How long were you together at this point?

[Jubilee]

At this point, we had been together maybe two or three years. So we had been in Atlanta for over a year at this point. So I ended up going to work the next day, and I kept it together for the most part. But I think that that's the first time when I really thought, you know, I'm either going to have to get divorced, or I'm really afraid that he is going to end up killing me.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

Because this is around the time that the Chris Watts situation happened.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, Chris and Shanann Watts.

[Jubilee]

Yes. There was a situation where this man killed his children and his wife and had strangled her. And it was so horrific. And I just remember laying in bed next to him, and he was asleep. And I was on my phone reading the details of this story. And I remember people saying, we never thought that Chris wat would ever do this. He seemed like such a good guy. And I just remembered thinking, if. If this happened to me, and if he did end up killing me, there are so many red flags that I am ignoring. And I really felt like that could be me. That's when I started to hide knives, and I started to be really scared that it could go further, because obviously, it feels like another level of abuse to go from somebody hitting you with a jacket, someone doing something that violent. So in my mind, it felt like everything was on the table now. Nothing would be too far gone for him to do. And I was also just reading a lot of stories on Reddit. I would come across stories about Chris Watts and other really abusive situations, and it really got me in my head. And I would talk to him. I would tell him, like, I'm scared of you. I'm scared that you're gonna kill me someday. And he would say, you need to stop reading so much stuff. You're stressing yourself out, you know? You know, I almost, like, gaslit myself into being like, maybe I'm just on the Internet too much. Maybe I'm chronically online, you know, and maybe I am being dramatic. But that's when I started to get really scared.

[Mackenzie]

This episode is sponsored by Better help you guys. The holidays can be super, super stressful. There's just so much going on, and I have adhd, and there's so much going on in my brain. At one time. So the holidays makes it even worse with like all the shopping and all the things that I have to do and the food and the organization and getting together with family and making plans and all of these things. And better Help has helped me to put all my thoughts into little individual buckets so that I can sort them better and kind of quiet my head just a little bit. But I really do love the holidays for the things that make me happy and cozy. I'm encouraged when I talk to my therapist at BetterHelp and they kind of share the things that I could do to be more positive instead of focusing on all the craziness in the holiday season. I have greatly benefited from therapy with better help and it's really easy. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient, flexible, suited to your schedule even during the holidays. Just you fill out a brief questionnaire, get matched with a licensed therapist, and you're on your way. And it's just a great place to talk to someone unbiased without having to worry about being judged. It's really nice just to have someone just to talk to and let it all go. Find comfort this holiday season with better help. Visit betterhelp.com TDD today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp H-E-L-P.com TD today. D you guys, you kind of probably know my husband more intimately than you should, but that's just because I keep talking about the miracle made sheets. My husband sleeps really sweaty. I can't. He gets hot and I sleep really cold. It is not a match made in heaven when it comes to sleeping just because of the temperature in our home. He's a penguin. It's freezing in here, but he still is hot. Anyways, if you wake up too hot or too cold, I highly recommend you check out Miracle Maids bed sheets. They are inspired by NASA, which is so cool to me. And they use silver infused fabrics that are temperature regulating so you can sleep at the perfect temperature all night long. Also, you guys know I'm a beauty skincare makeup junkie and I'm all about cleansing your skin. And when you sleep on traditional bed sheets, they can harbor more bacteria than a toilet seat which can lead to acne allergy stuff, you know, it's just gross. Like, let's just. It's. It's gross. Miracle Made offers a whole line of self cleaning antibacterial bedding like the sheets, pillowcases, comforters and they Prevent up to 99.7% of bacteria growth and require up to three times less laundry. You're welcome. The Miracle made sheets are also luxuriously comfortable without the high price tag of other luxury brands. And they feel just as nice, if not nicer than sheets used by even some of the five star hotels. Go to try Miracle.com TDD to try Miracle Made sheets today. And whether you're buying them for yourself or as a gift for loved one, or because you want to sleep with your husband comfortably and not all sweaty, if you order today, you can save over 40%. And if you use our promo TDD at checkout, you'll get three free towels and save an extra 20%. Miracle is so confident in their product, it's backed with a 30 day money back guarantee. So if you aren't 100 satisfied, you'll get a full refund. Upgrade your sleep with Miracle made. Go to try miracle.com TDD and use the code TDD to claim your free three piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's trymiracle.com TDD to treat yourself. Thank you Miracle Maid for sponsoring this episode.

[Jubilee]

So I was very much struggling with this idea of, well, God wanted me to be with him because this freaking prophecy and how much is it my responsibility to show the love of Jesus and forgive him? Because that is another thing that he would throw in my face is he would do something very abusive and I would not be able to get over. And I'd say, you know, I just don't really want you to touch me right now because I'm still stressed out about what happened. And he would say, well, you're not showing the love of Jesus.

[Mackenzie]

I hate that. Okay, so he's using that. Okay.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, it was a lot of religious abuse. A lot of, well, God says to forgive 77 times seven, you know, and I'm like, well, it does say that. So I guess maybe I should try to get past it. But that was just a very dark time where I ended up feeling really suicidal. Like I didn't know if I was gonna be able to continue on with how things were. And I hate that you felt that way.

[Mackenzie]

I'm so sorry.

[Jubilee]

Thank you. It was hard, you know, and I hadn't told my family because I was still trying to protect him. You know, my family, God bless them, they had no idea what was going on. They had seen him get mad maybe one time at a family function, but other than that, it was, he's such a good guy. He Loves her so well. And I just didn't want to make the situation between him and my family worse because they loved him, but little did they know that he hated them. So I was like, well, if I go tell my family, then he won't play nice anymore. He's not going to to want to go see them anymore. And it's just going to make my life harder.

[Mackenzie]

They know that.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was isolation 101. But during this time, something good did happen. I ended up. Yeah, no, I ended up deciding that I wanted to nanny. So I had gotten on this Sitter City website and I had applied to this job and the lady said that she wanted me to come to the house for the interview. And I was a little nervous about that because I'm like, you know, I don't want to go to someone's house. So I just googled her name. I was like, okay, I'll just google her name, make sure that no arrest records come up or anything like that. And all of a sudden, my computer is filled with a bunch of red carpet photos of this woman and her very famous husband. And I was like, what is happening right now? So I wasn't sure if it was a scam, but also we are living in Atlanta where things are being shot all the time.

[Mackenzie]

And.

[Jubilee]

And they did say that they only needed a nanny for like four or five months. So I was like, I guess this is legit. So I end up going. And it was them. And I ended up getting hired to be a nanny for their kids while they were filming. And it was just a very high highlight of my life. You know, I had so much fun.

[Mackenzie]

I love.

[Jubilee]

While we were out there, we got invited to their Christmas cast party. It was so fun. And I'm like in this room with a bunch of famous people. I was. It was just such a happy time. When I look back on 2019, it was the best and the worst year of my life all wrapped into one. I, at the time, I was posting self help stuff. I had like, started a blog and I was posting about, like, how to be happy because I had been able to help my fibromyalgia a lot. I had been reading a lot of self help books and I had been meditating and doing yoga. And then I got this job working for the celebrity. So in my mind, things were going so good and I felt like everything that I could control in my life was going really well. But Ted was this factor that I could not control. So it felt like I did the best I could with. With what I had, but at the end of the day, I could just not control him or his moods or how he would treat me. And I think that that is why the abuse ramped up. And he even said as much. He said, I am afraid that you are going to thrive and you won't need me anymore. Because I feel that he knew that I was starting to be a whole person and that I was starting to be happy. And that really scared him because he knew I wouldn't need him. So it was a weird time feeling like I am so happy. Every time I was on set, every time I was with this family, I really liked myself. I liked my life. I would tell my family how much I loved Atlanta and how I didn't want to ever come back. And. And I think that that also led to me not wanting to leave because there was this part of me that didn't want to blow up my life because what if I get divorced? I'm gonna move back home to Texas, and I have to restart everything. And I just wanted everything to stay the same. So there would be times where I would literally tell Ted, just promise me that you won't be abusive anymore. Just promise me that you're not going to do anything bad ever again. And I swear, swear I can get over it. Everything that you've done in the past, as long as you just don't do anything going forward. I told him, I know myself, and I know that I can forgive you and get past it, but it was just this factor that I had no control over. So while I was working for the actor, this was around December of 2019, I believe, there was a situation at Bethel. So at this time, I am not as connected to Bethel as I was. Ted was still all about Bethel. He still loved their teachings. He was super all about it. But I was starting to deconstruct some of the things that I thought, and a lot of that had to do with Ted. You know, he would tell me that he. This is crazy, that he used to hope that he would come upon a car accident where someone has died so that he could go pray for dead people to be raised from the dead. And he would tell me that he wanted to crash funerals, to raise people from the dead. And I used to tell him, that is so insensitive, you know, like, to show up to somebody's funeral and to go pray for them. And he would always tell me, well, if they're raised from the dead, don't you think that they would be happy don't you think that they want their loved one raised from the dead? And I was like, in theory, but it's not going to happen. So I was just starting to realize that our belief system could be very painful and very insensitive. That was another thing that I was realizing, having been on the other side of it, having fibromyalgia and chronic pain, and having these church members pray for me and be so insensitive and tell me, well, maybe you have some unforgiveness. Maybe that's why you're not being healed. And if you just had enough faith, you wouldn't have fibromyalgia. You wouldn't be be sick if you just believed that you didn't. So I was feeling very burned by this entire Bethel cult charismatic circle. And this all really came to a head in December of 2019. So there was a situation where a worship leader's child, I think she was 2 years old, Olive, she ended up passing away in her sleep. And it was absolutely heartbreaking. And the first time I heard about it was because on my Facebook, all of a sudden I just saw all these posts and it was wakeupolive. And essentially the church was praying to raise this baby from the dead. And the parents were obviously supporting this because they were in deep grief and they wanted their child to be raised from the dead. And nobody was telling them that this was just what was happening and trying to give them grief counseling or anything like that. They really just fed this delusion. And this ended up going so viral to the point where BuzzFeed ended up writing an entire article on some crazy church out in California is trying to raise a two year old from the dead. And I think they ended up praying for six or seven days. And there was a 24, 7 worship thing happening at Bethel where people were going and they were praying and people from all over the world were interceding that this baby would be raised from the dead. And I remember telling Ted, sitting in our living room, I said, you know, this is so sad and not okay. Like, these parents are in denial and they need grief counseling. And I'm just super against what is happening over there. And I'm so embarrassed that I am even affiliated with this church. And he ended up coming at me and telling me that I was the reason that Olive was not going to be raised from the dead.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

He was like, your lack of faith is why Olive is not going to be raised from the dead. And this was a huge fight between the two of us. So it was just the boiling point of our differing beliefs, us realizing, like, we do not believe the same things. And this is when something really crazy happened. So this job working for the celebrities, they ended up approaching me and saying that they were going to go back to LA after this film was done wrapping and that they wanted me and Ted to move to LA to be their full time nanny. And in my mind I'm like, this is best case scenario. He has been wanting to get his foot in the door. And the actor had even said, I will get Ted on set. I will get him connections in the industry. If you guys move out to LA, I can @ least get him some production work. Despite the fact that he was so under qualified, he had never worked on a set ever.

[Hannah]

It's so funny that he moved to Atlanta to do it and then like didn't do it. Like he didn't work on set.

[Jubilee]

Well, no, and he really didn't. And I used to tell him, you have to go to these networking functions. There was one thing that always happened on Monday where a bunch of people in the industry would go and network just at this bar and anybody could go. And I used to tell him, you should go. And he never went. Like, it was this dream that he did nothing to pursue. Not one thing did he try to actually do anything to make it happen. So I'm pitching this to Ted. They ended up writing me a whole proposal on how much money they would give and a relocation fee and all this. And Ted said that he didn't know if he wanted to do it. And I was so taken aback. Like, what do you mean? This has fallen into our lap. We are so lucky. This is everything you've ever wanted. And he said, I'm afraid that if we move to la, you will thrive and you will not need me anymore and that you will leave me.

[Hannah]

At least he's aware, so self aware, so self aware about his awfulness. I mean, I was gonna say he probably doesn't wanna go because you're the one that was succeeding in getting the connection.

[Jubilee]

His accomplishment, I think that was a part of it. And just his pride didn't like that I was the connection to set it up for him. So we decided that we were going to shelve the conversation because I had a race coming up at Disney and my fibromyalgia had been getting better. So I had started running and I was going to run my first half marathon.

[Hannah]

That's incredible.

[Jubilee]

Thank you.

[Hannah]

Especially with Prada's illness. I mean, congratulations.

[Jubilee]

Yes, thank you. And I was like, I'm gonna run through the pain. And I was so proud of myself. It was this big thing that I had really worked for for 10 months, and I was gonna go run this half marathon at Disney World with my cousin. So we decided that we were just going to shelve the conversation until after our vacation. The actor had agreed to give us time to think about it. We end up going to do this race, and this is the pinnacle of everything that I have been working towards. I really feel like this is a victory lap in my battling fibromyalgia. I still have pain, but I at least feel like I have worked my way through this. So we end up going on this trip with my cousin, and my cousin Alan was going to run the race with me, and Ted was just going to watch his young son. So it was the four of us on this trip, and immediately the vibes are just off. The vibes are bad. And there was just some weird tension between Alan and Ted, and it was all on Ted's part, you know? And I think that there was just this weird, like, macho vibe going on. No matter what we wanted to do or anything, we would suggest, we would say, hey, Ted, should we go ride this ride? Ted would be like, no, I don't want to do that. Let's ride something else. And he was being so combative for no reason. So we did not know why he was in such a bad mood. But my cousin was picking up on it, and it was really the first time that my family was seeing this side of him. So here I am panicking, just trying to keep it all under wraps, like, let's just have fun. So there was this new ride that everybody wanted to ride at Hollywood Studios, and we needed a special ticket to be able to ride this ride. So it was one of those things where you have to wake up early in the morning and you have to get on the app in order to ride this ride. It was a brand new one. So Ted said that he was going to handle us getting these tickets. So he wakes up, and then he ends up telling us that he wasn't able to get tickets for everybody. He was only able to get tickets for himself.

[Hannah]

What? Just one ticket?

[Jubilee]

He said they ran out. They ran out, and he alone is the person who can ride this ride. And he said, I'm so fine.

[Hannah]

Go, go. Leave us alone. Let us do our thing.

[Jubilee]

And we're trying to be chill. So we're like, okay. We were such good sports about it, Honestly, we were like, have so much fun. So we end up sitting in the parking lot of Hollywood studios so that he can run in. And it still took over an hour, maybe an hour and a half. And we're sitting in this car just waiting for him to ride this ride. So he comes back in and he said it was a lot of fun. So later that night, I have my race in the morning, and these races start so early. They start at. I think I had to wake up at 7:30. I think like 5:30. And you have to. I had to wake up at three in the morning for this.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

Because the race has to be practically finished by the time they open the parks.

[Hannah]

Oh. Because it's Disney.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. You're running through the parks. So, yeah, I'm like, I need to go to bed early. My plan was to try to fall asleep by like 7pm because, you know, we're just trying to sleep. And that night I'm laying in bed getting ready, and I tell him, you know, I'm so bummed that we weren't able to ride that ride. It sounded like so much fun. And he looks at me so serious and says, well, actually, you could have ridden it. I just chose not to get them for you guys. And I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean we could have ridden it? And he said, well, there was an option in the app to add everybody, and I just didn't add you.

[Mackenzie]

Ew.

[Jubilee]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

So what's your point, sir?

[Jubilee]

Yeah, so this ensues a huge argument where I'm like, what do you mean? That's like, so insane. We were sitting in the car and we thought that we couldn't ride it. And I was asking him, like, please explain the thought process behind that. Like, why did you do this? And he just wouldn't answer any questions about this. So after arguing and getting nowhere for maybe like 30 minutes, I was like, okay, well, I just need to go to bed. We are not going to. We are not going to make up. Because he wasn't apologizing or anything. And he would not let me go to bed. He said, we cannot let the sun go down on our anger, per the Bible. So we have to stay up and work on this. So he proceeded to fight with me till one in the morning. He would not let me go to bed.

[Mackenzie]

Ew.

[Hannah]

This is so abusive.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Sleep deprivation thing across the board.

[Jubilee]

So real. And. Yeah. And ruining events. Like abusers love to ruin events and.

[Mackenzie]

Make it about them. Yeah.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. So he starts threatening my cousin because I said, well, my cousin would protect me. I said, please don't hurt me, because it was escalating so bad to where I thought maybe he was going to attack me. And I said, well, my cousin's here. He would protect me. And my cousin was in the other room and had on white noise, so he was already asleep and didn't hear any of this. And Ted's like, well, I'll beat your cousin up. You know, and it was just so terrible. So we end up going to bed at, like, one in the morning. I get two hours of sleep, and I do run the half marathon, and hell yeah, it was honestly the best. Like, this was such a traumatic week. But my cousin.

[Hannah]

Did you cry while you're running much? I have had that experience to where you're just, like, so proud of yourself.

[Jubilee]

Oh, yeah. Like, sobbing at the finish line, just on cloud nine. And when we ended up getting to the finish line, Ted seemed happy for me at first. You know, he had been texting me during the race and telling me he was so proud of me. And he seemed happy at first, but by the time we got to the car, he was, like, overhearing about the race. It's. It's been like, 10 minutes. Okay. He's. He's overhearing about the race. He doesn't want to hear about it because he feels left out.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

That he did not run this race.

[Mackenzie]

Wow, this guy.

[Hannah]

An awful partner.

[Jubilee]

Terrible. So this just continued on for the rest of the trip. But on our last day of the trip, we decided that we were going to go to Animal Kingdom to eat at the Yak and Yeti restaurant. So I was so excited. I had done a bunch of research on the different places to go, like, Disney food blog. I was very excited, and I decided to get the Kobe beef burger. Because at this time, I wasn't a vegan. I, like, stopped being a vegan for a bit. I was like, I should clarify. No. I end up getting the Kobe beef burger because it was recommended. And my cousin ended up getting, like, the tikka masala. And then the food came, and my cousin starts dropping hints. He says, oh, my gosh, your burger looks so good, Juby. It looks so yummy. Like, we all have that friend who just wants your food, you know?

[Mackenzie]

Like, wow, I am the one who wants everybody's food valid.

[Jubilee]

So I was like, would you like a bite of my burger? Because he was just dropping so many hints. So I didn't give him my burger for him to bite on it or anything like that. I took A fork and a knife. And I got a piece of my burger, and I just gave it to my cousin. Now, this is where things take a turn, because this set Ted off. He all of a sudden, he is crossing his arms and looks really pissed, barely touching his food. He looks so angry. And I was like, what is going on?

[Mackenzie]

Making it obvious so that, you know, he's pouting.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Hannah]

Like, making all the noises.

[Jubilee]

And me and my cousin, we're just, like, awkwardly trying to keep the conversation going, and we're trying to pretend like everything is fine, but it's continued like this the entire rest of the meal. And at this point, I had no idea what was wrong. I didn't know if it was something in our conversation that had upset him. So we end up getting the bill, and my cousin Alan goes to the bathroom, and the waiter had came and gave the bill, and he was so flowery to this waitress. He was like, thank you so much. The food was so good. It was like something flipped. And all of a sudden, he was so nice again. So when she left, I was a little sassy. I said, so you can be nice to the waitress, but you can't be nice to your wife? Because I'm, like, over it. I'm like, that's what I was doing. What is up with this?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

So he explodes on me, and he tells in the middle of this restaurant, tells me that I disrespected him as the man at the table by giving a bite of my burger to my cousin first and that I should have offered it to my husband because he is the man at the table.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, guy.

[Jubilee]

And I was just like, you have got to be kidding me. Because I had been trying to figure out why he was upset, and that had not even crossed my mind. So we end up leaving the restaurant, we pay, and my cousin's still in the bathroom, and we are outside of the yak and yeti restaurant, and he just starts screaming at me in the middle of Animal Kingdom. And I kid you not, a crowd is forming around us, and I'm like, we are going to go viral on freaking TikTok or something, because it was so cringy. And he just started telling me that he was going to strand me in Florida, that he was going to take my cards and throw them in the parking lot, and that I would have no way to get home. And.

[Hannah]

God, did anyone say anything?

[Jubilee]

No. No, they did not. And in fact, my cousin came out, and, you know, my cousin was like, I'll just let you guys talk and he kind of went away. So I was just there with Ted. And eventually things calmed down a bit. Like, we parted for maybe 10 minutes and then we came back together. And in my mind, I was just like, I am going to just try to put a band aid on the situation because I was so embarrassed. I don't like to fight in front of people. In my mind, this is like Michael and Jan from the office dinner party vibes. I'm like, I do not fight in public. I just thought it was so horrible. And I think that this was the first time when I realized that I couldn't keep this a secret anymore. It, in a very public way, had blown up in my face and I had a family member witness it. So I really had to address it in some way.

[Hannah]

Tis the season. If you're giving gifts right now, you got to go check out quints before you check anywhere else. I'm telling you, quints is our favorite for luxury items at lesser prices, but still great quality. Seriously, I go to Quint's for most things. Quint lets you treat your loved ones and yourselves to everyday luxury at affordable prices. Here's how it works. They are a place that sells clothes mostly, but like shoes, bags, accessories. They also have travel accessories, which I've totally bought. And they partner directly with top factories and then cut out the cost of the middleman, which passes the savings onto you. I have a crossbody bag that I wear every single day. And it is the same exact bag as a luxury version. And I know that because my mom had it and my brother's girlfriend had it. And I looked at it all the time and I was like, I'm gonna get that. I'm gonna get that. Then I got the Quinn's version. It's the same thing, and it was like half the price. I've gotten a Mongolian cashmere sweater, which started at $50. Those are. That's the prices. I got it for 50. Like, unreal. I got a band for my Apple watch, which I get compliments on all the time, and was like, I keep saying, way more affordable than some of the places where you would think to go for that. Got my boyfriend a gift. He wanted a very specific, like, travel dopp kit type bag. And they had it and it was great. And I love. They have, like, silk skirts. Very good basics. Like any kind of basic clothing item is there. Quince is also on the nice list. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. They've got 14 karat gold jewelry, Italian leather, Handbags, European linen sheet sets. Oh, I didn't say sheets. I actually haven't looked through their sheets. Well, I know what I'm doing after this. And they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every piece. So gift luxury this holiday season without the luxury price tag. Go to quince.com TDD for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q U I n c e.com TDD to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com TDD you guys know I'm a.

[Mackenzie]

Private investigator, which means I happen to know the information that is out there on the worldwide interwebs that anybody has access to. And so we're going to talk about delete me. I want to talk about delete me because I think feel like you guys could really benefit from it. Privacy should matter to you as it does to me. And if you've ever been a victim of identity theft or if someone has harassed you or you are just worried about the information that's on the Internet, which is a lot of it. And I know you might not realize this, but it's your name, your contact information, Social Security number, home address, information about your family members, people that you are associated with. I hear Hannah, she's like, oh my.

[Hannah]

I'm thinking about this pastor that prophesied all this information about our guest today. And I'm like, that was all available on the interweb.

[Mackenzie]

That's what I'm saying. So all this information is compiled by data brokers and it's sold online. And that's how like data, they make a huge profit off your data. And it is a hot commodity. Information on you is a hot commodity. And you think, oh, no one cares about me. Yes, they do.

[Jubilee]

You.

[Mackenzie]

Anybody can be a victim. Anyone on the web can buy your private details. This can lead to the identity theft and the harassment and unwanted calls and all of these things. But now you can protect your privacy with Delete Me. I exist publicly, I'm on social media, and I'm a private investigator. I am hyper aware of safety and security online. That's why I personally recommend Delete me. It's a subscription service. It removes your personal info from hundreds of data brokers and all you do is sign up. You provide delete me with exactly what information you want deleted. And their experts take it from there. They send you a regular personalized privacy report report and it shows what info they found, where they found it, what they removed, and it basically does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from the data broker website. So they're constantly working for you. Take control of your data. Keep your private life private by signing up for Delete me now at a special discount for our listeners today. Get 20% off your delete me plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com TDD and use promo code TDD at checkout. The only way to get 20 off is go to JoinDeleteMe.com tdd and enter code TDD at checkout. That's JoinDeleteMe.com TDD code TDD.

[Jubilee]

We ended up going home to Atlanta. So that was a half day at the parks and then we end up flying home. And I knew that I was going to need to talk to him about this the next day because at this point I'm realizing that I don't know that I'm ever going to be able to have kids with him. Because knowing that he yelled at me in front of a two year old, I finally realized, wait, he obviously has no self control at all. And I ended up bringing up these concerns to him. So it's the next morning and I'm telling him, I am really concerned that you were able to yell at me in front of a child and I just want to know, would you ever yell at me in front of our children? And he ended up saying if you deserved it. So that is when I said, well then I won't be having kids with you because I knew that I would never, I would never put a child through that.

[Mackenzie]

No, I love you for that.

[Hannah]

I know, thank you. But that must have been really scary because I'm scared right now.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, it was. And he, I said, you know, I won't have kids with you then. And then he ended up charging at me and he strangled me for the last time. And it was a lot worse than the first time after. I couldn't swallow without pain for like 10 days. It was very scary. And oh my God. He ended up stopping and then I said, please leave. And he's like, well, I'll just call the cops on myself. He's acting like a victim again. And I said, just, I said, I'm gonna turn myself in. Oh, I hate. And he used to say stuff like that, well, I'll just call the cops on myself. And I was like, can you just leave? Just go get the groceries that we need and I will talk to you later. I really need time alone and I'm scared of you right now. So he ended up leaving. And this is the first time that I really realized that I just didn't feel like I could call anybody in my life. I didn't feel like I could call anybody in my family because I knew once you say something like that, nobody is going to let you stay with them, you know, or they're not going to support it and they're not going to probably play nice with them. So, yeah, I ended up calling the domestic violence hotline. And I think the reason I thought about them is, I don't know, I think maybe I read Chicken Soup for the Soul growing up and I remember they would add the hotlines in there. And at the time I was like, well, maybe that would be a good way to go. Because I can talk to somebody who has no idea who I am, it will not directly affect my life, and I can kind of just like shout it to the void. And it completely changed my life. I cry every time I talk about it because I was just alone in Atlanta and I ended up calling and I got through to this lady and it wasn't even like the most life changing conversation. Like she was just, she was just there for me. And I was sitting in my kitchen looking at the walkway to make sure that he wasn't gonna walk up because I knew he'd be so mad if he knew that I called him.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

And I told her what happened. And I know it sounds so stupid, but I genuinely still did not know if I was in an abusive relationship because everything felt so counterbalanced with the good things that he would do for me. And it wasn't always scary. Like we're still watching TV shows together, we're still going on dates, we're still having good times. So I was just very confused because I felt like abuse had to look like a specific thing. I thought that abuse looked like black eyes and a bunch of bruises. And to that point I had not had bruises really or anything like that. Although he had. Well, that's not true. There was one time that he body slammed me that was bad, but I mean, it was, you know, just times where it would be very good and then it would be very bad. So I'm on the phone with her and I'm telling her, you know, I don't know if I'm in an abusive relationship. And she said, well, can I take you through a list of questions and you just tell me yes or no to these questions. So she ended up reading me like 14 or 15 questions. And a lot of them were like, has he ever Put his hands on you? Has he ever called you this name? Have you ever felt fearful? And has he ever withheld money from you? And at the end, she ended up telling me that I had said yes to, I think, like, 11 or 12 of the 13 or 14 questions.

[Mackenzie]

Wow.

[Jubilee]

And for me, personally, that's what I needed. I needed data. Yeah. In my face. To be like, this is the questionnaire, and this is what the results say. And what you are experiencing is abuse.

[Hannah]

And it's like getting a diagnosis.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. And I started to defend him. I said, you know, but he's not bad all the time. And I remember her telling me, well, if he was bad all the time, he knows you would never stay. And that really hit me. It made me realize how much of this is just a show to keep me here. And I wish that I could talk to that domestic violence hotline person, because I ended up hanging up on her because he ended up walking up the path. And I said, I have to go. He's coming back. And I hung up on her. And I wish that I could tell her what a difference she made. And, you know, I have shared a lot about my story on TikTok and stuff, and it's been really cool and healing to see comments from people who work for these hotlines. And they were saying, I love hearing your story, because I worked with these hotlines for years, and I genuinely never know if I'm doing anything for any of these people.

[Hannah]

Yeah. You don't think they're not, like, staying with your case? Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

They can't follow you. It's anonymous, so they have no way to know if they made an impact, you know, and that lady, I was probably just one of many, many calls she took that day, but she completely changed my life. And she was great about not telling me that I had to do anything. And I think that that's something that's really important. Is.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Can I. Is it okay? I don't know how much you're willing to share, but I would love to know when you called, if you're comfortable with it, what you said or what you shared and how she responded that made you feel comfortable.

[Jubilee]

I think that she. She didn't try to tell me what to do. She was just telling me that it was dangerous that he had put his hands around my throat, like, obviously to.

[Mackenzie]

Kind of solidify your feeling.

[Jubilee]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Like a validation.

[Mackenzie]

Validation.

[Jubilee]

Validation that it was serious. And one thing. And I don't think I've ever shared this before, but I had had a lot of shame in this relationship. And there was a time where I think it was the year that I left, There was a time where he was being so abusive, and he ended up making fun of people in my family who had been sexually abused. He was a terrible person. So he would say, you're just like. You're just a victim like everybody else in your family. And he would, like, mock our abuse. And during that time, I ended up. This is the only time I ever did anything in our entire marriage. I got up and I pushed him, and that is when he picked me up. And then he body slammed me. And, you know, now that I've educated myself, I know that he was trying to get a rise out of me. But at the time, I felt so much shame because he ended up telling me, if we ever got divorced, I would tell everybody that you're abusive, too. I would tell everybody.

[Mackenzie]

Because now he can use it against you.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And you can now look at when he does things like that, and he can twist it on you and be like, well, we're the same, but you're not.

[Jubilee]

Yes, you're not. And that's what he would do. He would be like, well, you're just as bad as me because of that one time. And I also felt emotionally blackmailed because I felt like he would go slander my name to everybody if we ever got divorced. And one thing that the domestic violence lady, it was so powerful. You know, I told her about that. I said, well, I'm not perfect. There was this one time and I said, but he says that he would tell everybody. And she told me, you don't know how common that is. She said, so many women call me and tell me that they've done one thing, and they think that they're as bad as these men, you know, And I think hearing her not judge me was one of the biggest things that she did for me. That it was a very common response and a very common thing that abusers try to get you to do. That way they can use it against you. So, yeah, I think her just telling me that I didn't have to do anything, that she was just there to listen and provide education.

[Mackenzie]

The more they're just someone's there to listen is the most important thing. Not telling you, oh, you need to get out or what to do, like you said. So I think that's great that you're sharing that. Thank you so much.

[Jubilee]

Of course.

[Hannah]

And I also just love that your story is going to inspire other people to make that call.

[Jubilee]

Thank you. I I love the domestic violence hotline. I talk about them all the time. Because, I mean, what I love, too, is it wasn't. Not that there's anything wrong with having an emotionally charged, beautiful conversation, but it wasn't even all that. Like, honestly, like, we. We didn't hang up the phone. Being best friends or, like, feeling anything like that. It was just. She was exactly what I needed at that time, and she was there for me, you know? And I ended up calling my mom, and they all had the perfect reaction, which this is just. I got lucky because none of them knew how to respond or the right ways to respond, but they just did it naturally. And they all told me that I just needed to come home for a little bit. They said, maybe you can come home, just get some space for a while. If you guys want to go to counseling later, you can always do that. But the first step is to come home. And.

[Hannah]

Wow. So they weren't like, leave him immediately.

[Jubilee]

And I think had they been like, leave him immediately, I would have gotten really defensive, because when you're married, especially in these religious circles, it's so, like, you're supposed to be team your marriage.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jubilee]

We are on an island. And I really felt like I owed him protection of his image. And I think the thing, too, is a lot of people, they're like, well, why didn't you say something sooner? That's such a common question. Like, why did these women not say anything sooner? The truth is, I wasn't gonna say anything until I was ready to leave.

[Mackenzie]

Thank you. That's exactly. Exactly.

[Jubilee]

Because then it tarnishes their image, and then y'all are gonna judge me for staying with him. If I wanted our marriage to work, I felt like I really had to protect him and make it easy for everyone to love him. The night that he had strangled me for the first time, I did tell him that if he ever did that again, that I would leave him. And I wish that I had stuck to that. I. I didn't. Obviously, I did leave the second time that he strangled me, but there were other times where he. One time we were at Disney, and he almost broke my finger. And there were other times where he was physically abusive. But in my mind, I felt like if you didn't leave when he strangled you, you can't leave when he sprains your finger. Like, you can't do that. It felt like I couldn't leave for anything less extreme. So in a way, when he strangled me the second time, I felt a little relieved because it felt like, okay, now's my opportunity. Now I can leave. So I ended up telling him that I was gonna go back home. And thankfully he. He let me. He definitely thought that we were still gonna be together. He thought that it was a short term separation, but he was just happy that I didn't call the cops on him because I think he did know a felony, you know, and he could get in some serious trouble for that. So he was just happy that I didn't call the police and he said that I could go. And he ended up dropping me off at the airport, I think it was the next day. And, wow. I ended up kissing him goodbye. And I remember when I kissed him, it wasn't like this romantic thing. I genuinely remember thinking, I'm probably never gonna see you again. And this is a goodbye to this phase of my life. Like, I'm. I'm most likely not coming back. And I ended up filing for divorce a while after I. This all happened right before COVID So I left at the end of January. I came back, I told him that I wanted a divorce over the phone, and he ended up, you know, sobbing, trying to get me to change my mind. And when I told him, like, hey, I'm really. I'm not changing my mind, he immediately stopped crying. So I think he was.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, he was trying to use it.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, sure was. Actor. So I came back, like two days before COVID hit, filed for divorce, and I was able to get divorced over Zoom. And, you know, I praise God for Covid for that. I can't even imagine. Yeah, I lucked out with the timing so much, and I just feel so thankful.

[Hannah]

And maybe God's plan did. No, I don't know.

[Jubilee]

Maybe I still find myself over spiritualizing everything.

[Hannah]

I mean, it's. It's. I get why it was so easy to do that throughout the whole thing, because it is so easy. Because you want to believe good things and you want to believe that somebody's looking out for you, and you don't want to believe that this is part of it.

[Mackenzie]

Can I ask a question? How do you feel about religion now, as. As a whole? Has what he has done kind of turned you away? Or are you like, no, this is still my experience and he is still my experience.

[Jubilee]

I. My relationship with religion is very different, but it's. It was already kind of going that way when I was in my relationship with him. I do still consider myself to be a Christian, and I credit a lot of that to my now husband. I am actually remarried. I love it.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

I ended up meeting my husband very shortly after, and we dated for two years, and then he proposed. So we have been together four and a half years now. And one thing that he has been huge on is that he has really saved my relationship with God in a lot of ways, because being able to be with somebody who. He has no religious trauma. He is Catholic. He didn't believe any of the crazy things. He was not in this culty sector. And he's very much the type of person who, like, well, I love God, and God loves other people, and that's it. You know, like, his faith is super basic, and I needed that. I needed something uncomplicated. So, honestly, I hate talking about theology. I. I'm not interested. I don't. Not interested in being in ministry. Not interested in any of that. And being able to be with my husband, he's, like, such a liberal man, feminist. And seeing that he loves God and that that's okay, you know, that he can be.

[Hannah]

You take the good of that, like.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, he just loves people in a real way. And I think that that's how I've been able to maintain my relationship with God is just by keeping it, like, very basic and simple. But when I did leave, I think talking with him about everything that had happened was the first time I realized that I had been in a cult. Because talking with him, his name's Bran, you know, Brandon. But talking with Bran and just telling him, like, everything that I went through, all of these crazy things that Bethel believed in, believing you can live forever and raising people from the dead and all of that, it sounded so crazy coming out of my mouth. And it was the first time that I realized, like, wait, I'm insane. Like, like. Or wait, the culture that I have been a part of for so long is very interesting, and it's not the norm.

[Hannah]

I'm imagining you going back and forth on, like, the differences in your services and whatnot. And he's like, yeah, nope, that's actually not every Christian.

[Jubilee]

No. And, like, Bethel, they would do, like, these things called fire tunnels, where people are on the floor and they're, like, manifesting in the space spirit. Like, it was weird, you know, and it was a very strange experience. And going to his Catholic Mass has been very healing because it's so simple and it's so chill, and I really enjoy it. And I think just saying all of those things out loud, I started to realize that this was not real, like, the cult that I was involved in. And that leads me to when I ended up Getting on my phone, and I started to Google this prophet. So I.

[Hannah]

The original prophet.

[Jubilee]

That's OG Prophet.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, so what happened was.

[Jubilee]

So the OG Prophet had been so highly respected, but I was still trying to rationalize. Like, how do I rationalize that with my experience of I married someone who literally almost killed me, and it was supposedly God's will. So I Google him, and a bunch of articles come up on how he is a con artist, of course, who gets all of his information off of the Internet and Facebook. And looking back, I 100% know that my relationship with Ted was public on Facebook. The fact that I worked at Tomato Tomato Pie Cafe was also on Facebook, and that there was nothing special at all about anything that he said. And there are so many stories of people saying, like, there was one woman, she said that she had gotten called out, and he was like, I see that you have four children, but she actually had five, and one of them just wasn't on her Facebook.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God, that's hilarious.

[Jubilee]

Like, there she realized there's no trace of my one child on my Facebook. But he was so sure that I had four children. And he's been called out by even Bethel. Apparently, Bethel no longer associates with him. And a lot of other people in these ministry circles, they have called him out for being a con artist. And he still has over 200,000 followers on Instagram. Like, people really love this guy. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I just had so much of my public stuff on Facebook, I didn't realize. So I think the first time I realized that is when I was just. I finally realized that none of this was God's will ever, that this was all just a con. And I unfortunately fell for it because he just had such a stamp of approval from everybody in the circle that I had no reason to second guess him at the time. But obviously, it just is absolutely crazy when I looked up the prophet and realized that he was a con artist, and I was finally seeing so many stories that sounded like mine. I. I didn't feel angry until later. I think that that came later. My initial reaction was relief, because to that point, I still thought that this prophecy was real. And I remember my therapist, she was amazing because she. She's having to work with me where I am in this very culty mindset, and I'm still trying to figure out what I believe. And I remember telling her about this prophecy and, you know, saying that it was God's will, and I don't know how to leave when this was God's. Will. And she said the perfect thing to me. She said, well, maybe it was God's will, but he messed it up. And maybe it was God's will that you guys were supposed to be together, but we all have free will. And he destroyed it, you know, So I had been in that mindset where I was rationalizing, okay, he just messed it up and there's nothing I can do about that. But when I realized that he was a con artist, I felt so relieved that it was not real, because then I knew that I was 100% okay to get divorced. Like, there was no even little thought in the back of my head that I thought that I owed him my forgiveness or I owed him being married to him, you know, And I did feel angry afterwards. And I think that that's something that I'm still working through. Like, as I actually, I don't even know if I've really gotten to anger yet fully. You know, Like, I, I've told the story and I've talked about it, and I don't know if I've even grasped how actually terrible that is because I think coming outside of the cult, I just have realized how messed up a lot of these systems are and I've just had so many other things to work through first. But it is crazy how he pretty much single handedly could have been responsible for me dying. And I'm sure he has a lot of trauma on his hands based off of these prophetic words that he gives. There was a girl. After I've done a couple of podcasts, one girl reached out to me and she wanted to talk to me because her friend is also involved with a culty church and involved in these prophetic spaces. And her friend is in an abusive marriage. And she said that a bunch of people started giving her prophetic words, saying that her and her husband needed to move to such and such state. But it's, it's something that they had already said they wanted to do. They've said, they've always said, oh, we really want to go there. So all of these church members are trying to support them and say, well, God showed me a picture of you being in the state and that you guys are going to bring so much hope to this state. And her friend now feels like she cannot get divorced because she has received so many prophetic words that her and her husband are going to bring change in this area. And it's like, even if you think it's harmless, even if you think you're just affirming what Somebody has already decided. You have no idea what is going on behind closed doors. And people take those prophecies very seriously. Like, I. I have had people ask me, what do I think about prophecy now? Do I think that God speaks to people? And I don't know. All I know is I hate it. You know, I don't think anyone should ever do it because I just think that there's too much harm to be done in that space. So where my life has been is, you know, I am remarried. I'm back out living here with you. Yeah.

[Hannah]

You live near family still. Okay, good.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, near family. And I've also just been posting a lot about domestic violence and doing that sort of work online and post divorce. My thoughts on Ted had just been that he was an angry man who could not control his emotions. I wasn't thinking he was a toddler. Yeah. Like, I wasn't thinking he is this crazy, horrible, insane con artist or anything like that. I'm just thinking he, you know, was a man who couldn't control his emotions. And I'm thankful that I walked out alive. Well, I ended up finding out because I did some podcasts and was posting some stuff, and I started to really look back on my relationship with Ted during this time just because I had been talking about it. So it was like, front of mind. And I thought about how he had dated that girl. Sarah.

[Hannah]

Yes, Sarah from the coffee shop.

[Jubilee]

From the coffee shop, who I had met. So he had always told me, which red flag, guys. He had always told me that she was absolutely insane. He said, sarah, red flag.

[Mackenzie]

They call their ex crazy.

[Jubilee]

I did not know that that was the red flag at the time. I mean, I was young.

[Hannah]

You were like, 19, right?

[Jubilee]

Yeah, like 20s. So at the time, I was just like, oh, that's a bummer. And he said, well, she was totally crazy. And she had told me during an argument that I was a coward who would never amount to anything. And at the time, I was like, wow, what a terrible thing to say to somebody, you know? So my opinion of Sarah was not that high. I did not think that she was great. So I had never reached out to her. But after having read books on domestic violence and stuff like that, I was like, I really wonder what Sarah's side of this story might be. And she had ended up friending me a couple years ago on Facebook. She never said anything, but she had been liking some of my posts with my husband. So I was like, okay, well, she's open to knowing me, so maybe I should reach out so after, like, a glass of wine, I decided to reach out to her.

[Hannah]

Why not?

[Jubilee]

I was like liquid courage. I said, hi, I was just wondering if you would be interested in telling me your side of the story with Ted. Just because I've always been curious. And she was like, I would love to talk about that. I would love to tell you what happened.

[Mackenzie]

What did she say?

[Jubilee]

Okay, this is where the. It gets crazy.

[Mackenzie]

She says, where it gets crazy.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

We'Re gonna go on a roller coaster. No, she told me that they had actually been dating up until December. So remember how I said that they had broke up during the summer? No. They had been dating that entire year. And she actually said. She said, I don't actually know if we were dating him at the same time. She said, I think maybe we were. She said, best case scenario, he broke up with me to get with you. So she said that when I came to town and when I had moved there from Bethel, he would always ditch her to come and talk to me. So at the church, whenever I would walk in the door, she said, he would leave my side to go talk to you. And I don't remember that. But, I mean, I believe her because he did come and talk to me. And apparently he was just extremely disrespectful to her and really was not being a good boyfriend.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

Now, she told me that the month before we got together, he was house sitting for a family friend and was watching their dog and that he had invited Sarah over to hang out with him while they were house sitting. Now, I know this to be true because I remember returning the key. Like, he had house sat for these people a few times. So I know exactly what family she is talking about. And she told me that while she was over there, in the middle of their conversation, completely out of the blue, he attacked her, jumped her to the ground. Oh, my God. To sexually assault her. Oh, my God. And she said that she was able to get away and get to the bathroom, and then he eventually calmed down and she came out. And after this happened, she went straight to the church leadership the next day, and she told him, you know, Ted attacked me, and this is what he did. So she tells them what he has done, and they did not believe her.

[Mackenzie]

No.

[Jubilee]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

That's heartbreaking. I wish I was surprised.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. Right. And essentially they just believed him because he was such a prized person in this ministry and.

[Hannah]

And a man.

[Jubilee]

And a man. And they demoted her in the ministry. She was kind of getting to a higher place of the leadership, and they ended up demoting her. And not only that, but, like, people.

[Hannah]

Want to ask why women don't come forward.

[Jubilee]

I know.

[Hannah]

This is why.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. And they did not warn me, which is absolutely insane. Like, looking back on it, I am so furious. And this is all fresh information for me. I mean, I just found this out probably in September. The fact that they knew that he had these assault allegations against him and nobody thought to say anything to the 20 year old he is trying to date. It is so disgusting. And she has just been carrying this for a very long time and was very ready to tell her story. To the point where when I had gone on, I went on a couple podcasts this year and she said that on one of my podcasts, she sent it to the church leadership this year and she said, look, I was not crazy. This is what he ended up doing to Jubilee. And some of the leadership did write her back and apologized. They said that they were sorry and that they were blinded by Ted, but some of them have still left her unread and have never given her an apology for not believing her. Oh, my God. So that also explains why all of her stuff was at the house was because they were together up until.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And she probably didn't want to go get it.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. And then it's terrible. She said that once we started dating. This is so gross. He would go around and tell everybody that I was his Disney princess Jasmine, which makes me want to throw up. So he was going around and saying that I was like his Disney princess. Gift from God, which is sick. This next part is when I realized that I never knew him at all. So remember, he had said that he had waited to have sex until he got married and that he was very pure. He was big on his purity. All about that. To this day, I don't know if he was a virgin. I really don't know. But what I do know is Sarah told me that he was hitting up the strip clubs multiple times a week out in Pennsylvania to the point where she said that he had a favorite stripper named Delilah that he would go visit multiple times a week while he.

[Hannah]

Was with both of you.

[Mackenzie]

Yes, Delilah. Okay.

[Hannah]

How did she find that out?

[Jubilee]

He ended up admitting it to her. Yeah. While they were dating. And he was like, yeah, I. I go there. And she. Yeah, it was just insane. She was like, trying to. I think she was trying to be cool. She was like, oh, maybe I should go with you or something. And he was like, you wouldn't like it. So, I mean, I had in my mind that he was some dude who really cared about his purity. And little did I know that he was taking all of this money that he was getting from his parents and giving it to freaking Delilah over there.

[Hannah]

Well, good for Delilah. Mackenzie's face right now is amazing. She looks like she is smelling the worst fart you can imagine.

[Mackenzie]

Disgusting.

[Hannah]

Disgusting. What a liar.

[Jubilee]

So he is just honestly such a con. Because I, like, he was not at all who he presented himself to be. I thought I was getting someone so different at the time. And looking back on our marriage, there are a couple red flags that I ignored because I really thought that he was this pure guy. Like, in my mind, he waited 30 years to have sex. Like, why would he ever cheat on me? Because he would always tell me, too, that I was out of his league. So in my mind, I'm like, well, why would he. He cheat on me? He seems like he's obsessed with me. He seems like he loves me. But I will say that he sometimes would not go to work. There was one time where he was a substitute teacher here in Texas, and there was a time where I caught him lying about going to work. So he would get all dressed up as if he was going to go be a substitute teacher. And I ended up catching him in a lie that he didn't go. He, like, he left the house for like, nine hours, pretended to work, and then came home.

[Mackenzie]

Where did he go?

[Jubilee]

Probably to a strip club. Probably.

[Hannah]

How did you find out?

[Jubilee]

It was because on his online login on his laptop, you could see where they're picking up their shifts. And I saw that he didn't have a shift that day. And when I asked him, he was like, oh, yeah, I didn't go. So, yeah, to this day, I do not know what he was doing. And I don't know how often he was doing that.

[Hannah]

And when that happened, like, how did you feel about moving past it?

[Jubilee]

I just started looking more at the online thing because I really didn't trust him, you know? But the thing too, with this religious abuse is it's like, well, I apologized and I said I was sorry, so you need to forgive me, you know? So he would say, you know, it's really not my business to check anymore. He resented the fact that I kind of monitored his work when it came to the substitute teaching, but I tried to just shove it to the side and move past it.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

And when we were living in Atlanta, he was working as an Uber driver, and there was one day when he ended up coming home, and I think he was in the shower at the time, and I. I looked at his phone, and this was not something where we weren't allowed to look at each other's phones. It was. It was very.

[Mackenzie]

You don't got it. You don't got to explain.

[Hannah]

Yeah, you don't have to defend it.

[Jubilee]

We did what we did.

[Mackenzie]

I don't take it back.

[Jubilee]

I'm like, some people hate that. But I was, okay.

[Hannah]

They don't have to do.

[Jubilee]

It's just a thing. We had each other's passwords. And I saw that he got a text from this girl, Crystal, and she was like, hi, this is Crystal from earlier. So I ended up asking him, like, who is this girl? Because in our marriage, we didn't really talk to the opposite sex. We had strict boundaries.

[Hannah]

You weren't even allowed to have dinner with your dad.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, literally. So, I mean, I was like, who is this Crystal girl? But also, in my mind, I'm like, he would never cheat on me. He acts like he's so obsessed with me, but I wanted to know who she was. And he said that there was a girl that he had driven earlier that day through Uber and that she had lived in our apartment complex and that she had said, you just seem like such a safe, good person. And I hate using the Uber app because the Uber app, you know, you never know who you're gonna get. So I was wondering if I could give you my number and you could be my personal Uber driver. That way, you don't have to pay the Uber fees either.

[Mackenzie]

Ew.

[Hannah]

I can't think of a woman in my life that would ever do that. I would ever be like, you seem like a nice guy. Can I just get your number and trust you?

[Jubilee]

You can be my driver.

[Hannah]

No.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. So that was his explanation for that. And I. I don't know. I thought it sounded fishy, but I really still thought he was, like, this good Christian guy who had saved himself for marriage. And I just could not fathom a world where he would cheat on me. And, I mean, when he would go to Uber, I don't even know if he was Ubering. I didn't really see the app. I know that he had a profile. I knew enough for that. But all those hours where he was off Ubering, I mean, I don't know how many of those hours he was actually working or if he could have been going and doing other things or cheating on me. I. I have no idea. There was also one day. This is crazy. There was one day when we were living in Atlanta when he ended up coming home and I found some scratches on his back.

[Mackenzie]

Scratches.

[Hannah]

Oh my God.

[Jubilee]

And guys, I was so innocent. I, I, it definitely raised red flags, but I was like, he would never, like, he's such a good person. He would never cheat on me. And I asked him where he got them from and he said that he had no idea. Like he had no idea where they had from scratches.

[Mackenzie]

I don't know.

[Hannah]

I had no backwards into a tree. Like literally he didn't even try.

[Jubilee]

He was like, maybe my back was itchy and I scratched it. That's what he said.

[Mackenzie]

I guess these are completely symmetrical, but it's fine.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, it's fine. So yeah, now that I know all this stuff about Sarah, that he was frequenting strip clubs and obviously that he has no moral compass because he tried to whatsoever, I don't know who he is. Like, I do not know if he was cheating on me the entire time we were living in Atlanta. I don't know if his entire religious facade is completely fake. Like, does he believe the things that he's saying or I don't know. So this leads me to, in September, I found out all of this and I decided that I was going to go on TikTok and I was going to do a series called Did I Marry a Psychopath? And I ended up doing.

[Mackenzie]

I was.

[Hannah]

Like, I'm quick series.

[Jubilee]

Quick series. I did a 50 part series or something.

[Hannah]

Oh yeah.

[Jubilee]

Where I just like broke down a bunch of stuff. And as I'm doing this series, I ended up getting a DM from someone named Daisy. And it gets crazy. Okay. So Daisy is someone actually that I know and I have known since 2015.

[Mackenzie]

What do you mean?

[Jubilee]

And Daisy actually did my hair on my wedding day to Tad. So.

[Hannah]

Wow. So she wasn't from like Hogwarts school. She was.

[Jubilee]

No, she knew him from his hometown.

[Hannah]

Oh.

[Jubilee]

So what happened was these were the family friends, okay. That he had known just growing up and they had traveled to come to the wedding. And he had told me because, remember I was planning this wedding from out of state, state, and I was trying to find a makeup artist and a hairstylist. And he said, I have a friend named Daisy and she can do your hair for the wedding. So I literally got ready for my wedding day to Ted at Daisy's house. Now, I did not remain in contact with anybody from that time really. Like when we ended up getting divorced, I had unfriended a lot of people from the culture because a lot of them just were not very supportive Or, I don't know, I just didn't feel safe around them anymore. So I had unfriended Daisy and a bunch of those people who I knew through Ted. Now, Daisy, during this last year, so 2024, she had found my TikTok and she had been watching my videos for a while. And I had seen that she'd been watching my videos and she had even liked some of them that were against Ted. And that surprised me because I thought that they were still friends. What's going on with that? So Daisy reaches out to me and she said, hey, if you are open to it, here's my number. I have so much to tell you.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

Oh, my God.

[Mackenzie]

Oh my God.

[Jubilee]

I had just gotten out of therapy, right? So my hands are shaking. And I immediately just called her and she answered and she was like, I have so much to tell you about what has been going on since you guys got divorced.

[Hannah]

Oh, good. Okay. So it's like the update. It's not that she was doing anything both. Okay, never mind.

[Jubilee]

Not about the wedding, but here's what happened, okay? She ends up telling me that he had moved back to their home state after we got divorced. And I was under the impression that he was going to tell everybody what he did. And this was because we had mutual friends in Atlanta and he had actually gone to them and cried to them and said, you know, I did this to Jubilee and I hope she takes me back. And he had seemed very sorry, which made it hard to leave him because I was fully convinced that he was trying to take responsibility for his actions, but that I just wasn't willing to risk my life. So Daisy tells me that he moved back to their home state and he went around and told everybody that I was a narcissist who abused him and that he only ever acted in self defense against me.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. And she said, you know, I didn't really like fully believe him. I thought maybe he was being dramatic because I know that you always seem so sweet when I met you, but that is what he said about you. And that's what everybody in our home state thinks. They think that you were the reason that you guys got divorced. And I was so taken aback by that because he followed through. He followed through on what he said he was going to do, which he said that he was going to tell everybody that it was me. So they ended up just hanging out more and more because you have to remember they have been family friends since I think, 2007. She has known him a Very long time. Because Ted used to go to her dad's church.

[Hannah]

Okay, got it. So they also have the church ties.

[Jubilee]

Yes, church ties. And there's another couple that she's related to. So he's kind of friends of this entire large family. And they were all just trying to be nice to him when he came back, because obviously he got divorced, and he's sad. And so he starts volunteering at their church. And this is when tragedy really strikes for Daisy. And I feel so bad for everything that she has had to go through, because in 2020, her dad, the pastor, ended up passing away from COVID and then her brother in law ended up passing away from cancer. And then her husband, who she had been with since she was a teenager and had five kids with, ended up passing away from cancer.

[Hannah]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

And this all happens in a year or a year and a half. And she was in such a low place. Like, imagine losing the three big men in your life.

[Hannah]

That's unreal.

[Jubilee]

And, you know, I was so heartbroken for her when her husband Chris passed away, because, you know, they were just like, such a perfect couple. And Chris had actually been in our wedding. He was a groomsman and in the wedding. So Ted was really good friends with the husband. So after these family members pass away, she's obviously going through a very hard time. And I do want to say real quick, remember, Ted is 10 years older than me. Daisy is roughly 10 years older than Ted. Okay. So she is 20 years older than me. She was more of a mother figure to me when I knew her.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

And she's just going through this very hard time after these losses, and Ted swoops in and tries to love bomb her, but he ends up swooping in, and he starts taking care of her for pretty much an entire year. He starts doing her laundry, her dishes, doing her grocery shopping. And he was tucking her in at night and praying over her before bed and was just acting like a total knight in shining armor. And she was not really into him, but she decided to give him a chance because she was just in a very dark place. And in her mind, she was thinking, I've already had the one true love of my life, but maybe I could have a companion with Ted. So she ends up agreeing to see how things will go because he professed his love to her, and he started promising her the world. He was like, I'm gonna take you on a European vacation. I'm gonna take care of you. And she told him, okay, let's just see how things go I'm open to dating. So after a year of being on his best behavior, literally, like the week that she agrees to give him a chance, he turns abusive. And imagine how evil you have to be. Like, this woman has lost so many people in her life. And he proceeds to torment her for a year. Which, by the way, just so everybody knows, they both are okay with me telling this story. I asked them both, and they were like, yes, tell it. So there was a situation where they were in her house, and he ended up screaming at her. And then he shattered this lamp that she loved and shattered it on her floor. He started telling her that she was a narcissist. He started calling her a whore. And she said that there was a time where he came to her work and threw a chair in the middle of her work. Yeah. And hearing her story, I think that he's gotten worse because Ted was pretty able to keep it just between the two of us. But it feels like something is just super off and that he has, like, really let these tendencies get the best of him.

[Hannah]

I mean, he sounds, like, more panicked in a way. Like he's lost a lot at this point because of this behavior. And it's almost like that makes him even more controlling or holding on tighter.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. So he's just. It's been ramp. It had been ramping up a lot. And finally she said that he would look like a different person when this would happen. Like, there would be a different look in his eyes during this time. And she was going back and forth on if she was going to continue talking to him. And she kept telling me on the phone, I was so stupid. But I think when you're in such a dark place, everything's confusing. I can only imagine having lost so many people. Like the just fog that you were in and just trying to.

[Hannah]

That's why he went. I think that's why he went for her.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. So there was one final situation, which I feel like it is her version of the Disney World burger story, because it is easy. Equally ridiculous. And so there was a situation where she was going to go with her daughter and her grandchild on a business trip to South Carolina. Now, Ted said, that's so crazy. I'm also going to South Carolina that weekend. And he said, so while I'm there, we should hang out. So she agrees. She's like, okay, I guess we'll hang out while we're in South Carolina, since we're going to be across the country at the same time. So there was a time where she is with her grandchild who was 2 years old. And they decided that they were going to go to this outdoor shopping center. And when they got there, he said, okay, why don't you go inside the Starbucks and I just have to use the restroom real quick and then we can get a drink and then we'll walk around. She's like, okay, sounds great. So she goes into the Starbucks and she's sitting there forever. And it takes him so long to come to the Starbucks and she has no idea what's going on. To the point where she's like looking at the watch like, what? What has happened? Where has he gone?

[Hannah]

You fall in.

[Jubilee]

Literally. To this day she has no idea what he was doing. But when he came into the Starbucks, he said, let's go. And he looked really pissed and really angry and she had no idea what was going on. So she said, wait, I thought you said that we were going to get a drink. And he lost it on her in the middle of this Starbucks. He started screaming at her. He called her the C word in the middle of this Starbucks in front of her two year old grandchild. Yeah. And she has no idea why he's mad. She like, all she said was, I thought we were gonna get a drink because she has been waiting there this entire time to get this drink and he is just exploding on her in the middle of this Starbucks. So she's like, okay, I just need to get to the car, I need to get back to the house. So she grabs her grandchild and she starts walking to the car. But she is dependent on him because this is his rental car. She does. She doesn't have a car and the rental car has her grandchild's car seat. And she's like, I can't call an Uber because I don't have anything to put my grandchild in. So she just walks to the car and she's like, if I can just get back to the hotel. So he unlocks the door and right as she is about to open the door, he locks it and he says, find your own way home to her. And I remember that he used to do stuff like this to me too. I had actually forgotten until she told me the story, but he would do stuff like that, like lock it at the last second kind of as like an fu.

[Mackenzie]

Humiliate you.

[Jubilee]

Yes. So he's just screaming at her outside of this car and all of a sudden like a woman walks up and I think that she was actually going to def daisy finally someone stepping in to help. And he ended up unlocking the car because he didn't want to talk to this lady. So he's like, get in. So she gets in the car, and she's trying to put her grandchild in the car seat. So she's in the back, and he sits down, and he takes the rear view mirror, and he pushes it down so that he isn't able to look at her in the mirror. And he says, I can't even look at you. You're so effing disgusting.

[Mackenzie]

Ew.

[Jubilee]

And she, too, still has no idea what's going on. So at this point, he ends up flipping the mirror back up. And she said that she ended up looking at him, and she said, I feel really bad for Jubilee. And, wow. He did not like that.

[Hannah]

Obviously, that would cut him deep. Oh.

[Jubilee]

Because at this point, she realized everything that you said is probably not true, and you were the one who was abusive to her. And she was able to get back to the hotel, but pretty much after that, they haven't spoken. And I think just hearing all of this from Sarah and hearing this from Daisy, I have finally realized that I just did not ever know this guy. I cannot believe that I ended up marrying someone so crazy. And I don't. I don't know what's going on with him. And she did tell me that there was a situation where she was over at Ted's house, because, remember, Ted is still living with his dad, right? And he ended up exploding on Daisy in front of his dad. So now I know that his parents are aware of how he is. And the dad ended up following Daisy out of the house because, you know, Ted's screaming, and she's like, I need to get out of here. So she starts walking to the car, and Ted's dad followed her, and he said, I'm so sorry, Daisy. He's always been this way, and we have no idea what is wrong.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, my God.

[Jubilee]

And I have a lot of complicated feelings. I've had a lot of people ask me, you know, what do you think about Ted's parents now? Because when I left, I just. I still loved them. I still viewed them as second parents to me. But knowing now that they knew his entire life that there was something really wrong and that he had these problems and that nobody warned me, it is very hard to.

[Mackenzie]

I imagine. Oh, God.

[Jubilee]

And it's hard because I think, in a way, they're victims of him, too. Like, yes, they should have protected me, but there was. Even when I ended up leaving Ted, I ended up having a phone call with his mom. And she cried on the phone, and she begged me to stay with him.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Jubilee]

And it was. It was very. She did.

[Hannah]

And did you tell her everything? That even every.

[Jubilee]

Oh, I did. I said, what do you want me to do? He strangled me. I don't want to die. And she was like, please, please, maybe he can get help. And it's. It's hard because I know that's infuriating. Like, I can only imagine that everybody listening is, like, f. That and, like, 100%. Absolutely. That was so inappropriate. I just think his mom was such an emotional person. Like, she couldn't help herself. Like, in a way, she just didn't want to lose me. And it's sad, you know, I feel. Yeah, I feel bad. But finding out all of this stuff, I have realized that I never really knew anything about him. And there is a lot of frustration at the church. The fact that this fake prophet, con artist guy conned me into marrying him, and then the church just completely failed Sarah, that they didn't believe her and that they let all of this slip through the cracks. Like, it is so dangerous what they did.

[Hannah]

All of them. Yeah.

[Jubilee]

You know, and they're lucky that all three of us are alive and okay. You know, because they really failed all of us in a way. But, yes, that is the crazy story.

[Mackenzie]

I cannot. Oh, my God.

[Hannah]

Oh, Jubilee.

[Jubilee]

It was a lot. So I. I've been sharing a lot because I. I think, for me, I did not know the signs to look for. I didn't know what I was experiencing.

[Mackenzie]

Teach you that stuff.

[Jubilee]

I know they don't, and I wish. Little plug here. Everybody should read the book why Does he do that? By Lindy Bancroft. It's okay.

[Hannah]

So we started a book club.

[Jubilee]

You should read it.

[Hannah]

It's called why Did he do that?

[Jubilee]

Or why Does he do that?

[Hannah]

Why Does he do that?

[Jubilee]

It's a great resource for domestic violence. I read it when I left Ted, and I think it's called why Does he do that? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men. And it's written by a man who used to do group therapy with abusers. And.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh. I'm looking it up.

[Jubilee]

Yes. And it. It's very well regarded in domestic violence circles. They tell pretty much all survivors to read it because it really helps you make sense of what you went through. I think it is the number one reason why I was able to leave and not go back, because once I read it, it was so transparent. I was like, wow, he is textbook abusive. And he basically says after working with abusive men, he noticed all of these thought patterns, like, why do men do these things? And the manipulation tactics that they use. So that's really when I finally realized, like, oh, the sleep deprivation, that was a tactic. Him trying to bait me into putting my hands on him, that was a tactic. And it all made so much sense. So I really wish that they made girls read that in high school. I think it would be so valuable because a lot of people, they just don't know what they are going through until they see other people share their stories or they read it.

[Mackenzie]

You know, I'm so grateful for you sharing your story. And I say this every time, but you're. The story that you tell is going to impact someone else who says, oh my gosh, that's me. And they're going to have that sense of community that's going to help them. Someone is going to be impacted positively. And I'm just, I'm really grateful for you sharing. Like, it's so brave of you.

[Jubilee]

Yeah, thank you.

[Mackenzie]

100.

[Jubilee]

That's my whole goal. I've really just been trying to do that and it's been so humbling. I get lots of messages from people and I've been able to get people to call the domestic violence hotline and, you know, and shout out to the.

[Mackenzie]

Domestic violence hotline workers who don't get closure. Or perhaps you were just there. For someone like you, Jubilee has made it perfectly clear that you changed her life. And that's really amazing. So thank you for what you do.

[Jubilee]

Yeah. It's such a thankless job because you don't get to see the follow up. You don't get the warm fuzzies of seeing the difference that you make. But it. They definitely do. Like, I've talked to so many people who have been affected by it.

[Mackenzie]

So thank you so, so much. I'm. I'm so grateful for you. Oh, my gosh.

[Hannah]

I'm so happy that you're remarried.

[Jubilee]

Yes.

[Hannah]

To a good guy.

[Mackenzie]

It's a happy ending.

[Jubilee]

He's the best. I post about him all the time. I make corny montage videos.

[Hannah]

So we're all gonna go stalk and fall. I mean, Sleuth. I'm not allowed to say that. Instagram Sleuth.

[Jubilee]

Yes.

[Mackenzie]

Oh.

[Hannah]

Oh, my gosh. No, I'm just so proud of you too.

[Mackenzie]

You are, you're. You're amazing. Thank you so, so much.

[Jubilee]

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you guys so much.

[Mackenzie]

That's so much to swallow, right?

[Hannah]

So much. I'm so Glad she's okay, you guys.

[Mackenzie]

First of all, Jubilee told her story, right? Like, she was here to tell her story. And I'm glad that she used her voice and told her story, like, yeah, good on her.

[Hannah]

She's made it, like, a part of her platform. It sounds.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah, yeah. Like, say it loud. Talk about it loud. Because the more we talk about it, the more. The more people learn about it, the more educated we are, the more aware. It's all awareness. Right.

[Hannah]

Yeah. There's a lot to talk about. So, dogfish, debrief.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, this guy.

[Hannah]

Let's get into it.

[Mackenzie]

Ted.

[Hannah]

Fucking Ted. That's his new legal name. Where do you want to start?

[Mackenzie]

I want to talk about how this guy made every happy experience that she had about him, like, and took all of the joy away from every experience and made it miserable for her and made it all about him.

[Hannah]

God. I mean, it seems. I. I know we say narcissists all the time, but that's, like, so narcissistic.

[Mackenzie]

It's. Yeah. And textbook.

[Hannah]

Just awful. Like, the whole running thing, I mean, he just couldn't stand anything not being in his control. It seems like he was.

[Mackenzie]

It's almost like he was jealous of her and wanted to. Like, he couldn't stand if she was better than him.

[Hannah]

Jealous of him, her. Or also if she was doing too well, she wouldn't need him.

[Jubilee]

Right.

[Mackenzie]

That's a control thing.

[Hannah]

Down. Okay, so if you notice somebody repeatedly ruining your birthdays, your graduations, your happy.

[Mackenzie]

Moments, every happy moment, then that's more.

[Hannah]

Than a red flag. That's a flag on fire. Let's tell somebody. And telling somebody is hard, as we heard. So she was. The National Domestic Violence Hotline was like. I mean, I never. I never thought about how the people on that hotline don't really get resolution.

[Mackenzie]

As a private investigator, I work cases, and there's so. I mean, 99. I don't get clothes wrong. Like, I don't know what happened.

[Hannah]

And that's so hard.

[Mackenzie]

And that's so hard. But imagine being a worker at a hotline where these people are calling you and they're talking. This is like life or death. A lot of times maybe, and you don't know. And it's like, whatever happened to that person? And you don't know, did you help them? Did you not? What was the outcome? And that must be really hard. And so kudos to the National Domestic Violence Hotline. I just can't imagine y'all doing the Lord's work.

[Hannah]

I really hope if any of Those people are listening. Or anyone who's ever volunteered for any kind of hotline, let this story be some solace that you've made a difference, because she just needed somebody to validate that what she was going through was bad. Nobody thinks it's as bad as it is in the moment. And even after the fact. How many people have come on and told us horrible things that have happened to them and said, but it wasn't that bad, or, yeah, but I know people have been through worse. Like, it's so. And I. I do it, too. Like, I. I mean, I've talked to you about things that have happened to me, and I'm like, I can't even call them. Like, I don't feel comfortable calling myself, like, a survivor of sexual assault, because.

[Mackenzie]

It'S hard to say those words right.

[Hannah]

It's hard. Yeah. And you need other people to be like, hey, this did happen to you. Your feelings are valid, or your numbness is a defense.

[Mackenzie]

Yes. And that's exactly why I like, when people like Jubilee and our other guests share their stories. Someone else can say, oh, my gosh, she went through the same thing I did. This is absolutely abuse or whatever. It'll actually spark that conversation and bring it to light that what you went through is valid and it is something that needs to be discussed. That's why I think it's so important to continue to share our stories.

[Hannah]

Totally. And we've talked about how we don't tell our mothers when somebody's shitty to us until we're ready to cut them loose. Because as soon as you tell your mom, at least in both of our cases, it's like, all right, they're done. Like, there's no going back from that. She talked a lot about that, where she didn't want to tell people in her life because she wasn't ready to leave. She didn't want them to think badly of him of her if she stayed. And then in a way, she kind of herself along with his isolation because of that. And, I mean, we talk about how to be a friend of somebody going through relationship like this, but I think it's. I don't know. Like, how do. How do we make ourselves available to people without them feeling like we would be upset?

[Mackenzie]

Yeah. We've learned that you can't make them feel stupid. Like, oh, how could you be in a relationship? This is obviously a bad idea. Like, to them, it's not. And the. The thing also, with the public humiliation, like, the. Like, Ted humiliated her in public and embarrassed her.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

To make her feel little, like he wanted to make her feel small. And so those things really take a toll on your psyche. They wear down your confidence in yourself. When someone humiliates you like that and you're afraid to say anything, he would embarrass her.

[Hannah]

Like, it was awful. And then, okay, this is, this is another topic. The sleep deprivation. And then, like, taking advantage of her disability and flushing her sleeping pills down the toilet. That's physical abuse, no doubt. Like, that's, I, I, I'm, like, livid.

[Mackenzie]

It is never someone else's decision when it comes to our body and our medication and what we're doing, like, medically. And it's hard for me to talk on because I don't know anything about anything medical. Right. But I do know when you're struggling to sleep and you need sleep meds or you have fibromyalgia and you, you're, this is your only way to escape pain. That is a huge, like, they could never lay a hand on you. That is so abusive, so manipulative. It's disgusting. I don't know why I'm so sick to my stomach over that. Like, that.

[Hannah]

Oh, I, oh, well, because it's like, going, it's a, you're affecting this whole.

[Mackenzie]

Person'S body without laying a hand on them.

[Hannah]

Well, you just put it great. Where it's like, they don't have the right to make any decision about you and your health. And they not only did that, but also did so in a way that primes you for more abuse. Because sleep deprivation is a tactic.

[Mackenzie]

Yes.

[Hannah]

And then hurts you. I mean, it's just, he should go to jail.

[Mackenzie]

We'll sleep also, like, I don't know if you guys have ever. For someone to manipulate you into not sleeping, that takes a toll. Number one, mentally. But number two, physically, your body wants to sleep. Right. So imagine the, the, the torment that your body goes through when you can't sleep, when your body wants to. Like, like, I don't know if you've ever thought about that, but it's.

[Hannah]

Have I thought about it? I mean, I've never, fortunately, been in a position where a partner was depriving my sleep. But I do think back to college, where I had the least amount of sleep and the worst health in my life, and I was sad all the time. I mean, I had a, it affects you. But, like, I, I thought, you know, I looked back and a couple years later was like, oh, you were just tired all the time. Like, that's why your face was puffy like, girl, chill. But it makes you. You not yourself. I also didn't like how he always said, you have to forgive me in the name of Jesus.

[Mackenzie]

Oh, blessed that religious abuse is so like you. Oh, that's so hard, too, because I grew up a Christian girl. Like, I'm Southern Baptist. Right. My mom was a pastor. Like, we. I grew up in the church, so I understand. But to manipulate someone into submission by using that religious stance, by saying, oh, like, you know, this has got.

[Hannah]

Well, you're not forgiving me.

[Mackenzie]

That's really not. That's awful. This is totally religious manipulation, religious abuse. I don't like it. It's not nice at all.

[Hannah]

We've gotten some. One specifically DM that I feel like touches on this in a good way.

[Mackenzie]

What does it say?

[Hannah]

Okay, I'm gonna share. Not the name or, like, word for word, but the basics of a DM we got from someone who was so kind, who had recently left a space that was similar to what Jubilee described. And the episode was, you know, this was just the part one. But it was hard for them to hear, but they felt it was important, pushing a marriage and the beliefs that were just, like, very manipulative. And now they left that church three years ago and then is now trying to go to church again. Because religion is a huge, beautiful part of their life, but they feel really on edge in religious spaces. And it broke my heart because I think. I mean, we both in different religions have beautiful relationships to those communities, but there's. It's such an easy way to prey on unmet needs if you have that. And I don't know. I don't know how you protect yourself or find peace in communities like that after you've been through this, but I know it's possible.

[Mackenzie]

So. As someone who grew up in the church, I have my own relationship with God that is. I don't push it on anybody. It was pushed on me by not my parents, but some other family members. And it was. I. It got to the point where I was like, stop pushing it on me. Like, you know, it was very frustrating, personal, and. Yeah, it is very personal. And for me, it kind of taught me that my relationship with God is mine and mine alone. Where it starts to get a little iffy for me is when we talk about, like, raising folks from the dead, for instance.

[Jubilee]

Sure.

[Mackenzie]

Like, they're.

[Jubilee]

There's.

[Mackenzie]

They think they're helping people, and to. To speak on it is to say, well, your way of thinking is wrong. And I. I'm in no position to do that at all. Like.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Mackenzie]

But I do think that using that manipulation with someone who clearly doesn't have those same feelings and you're trying to push that on them, then it becomes abusive, in my opinion, and manipulative.

[Hannah]

I think that's a.

[Mackenzie]

You gotta follow your gut on that one though.

[Hannah]

It's fair. And also like values at the end of the day are what are important, important. And you. If, if a religious community is looking at a person who is a good person and practicing a value filled life, but they don't believe exactly what you do, or they're not making the same choices that you're making. And you. That's bad to you. That to me is the red flag. It's like anytime you are, like you said, forcing people to do things because that's just what you're supposed to do.

[Mackenzie]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Whether it's religious or otherwise, it's dangerous because you lose your sense of self. And I. So I went to a wedding and I'm not going to say what religious wedding it was because all religions have different stuff. And I mean, I can speak on Judaism because I'm Jewish and like Jews, we've got our stuff. Like there's some sexism going on there that makes me frustrated. Like all religions have good and bad. But I was very uncomfortable with something that was said in this service that was very much about like, you guys are gonna wrong each other, you guys are gonna make mistakes, you're gonna get on each other's nerves. But those weren't the words. It was like, you are going to basically. He basically was like, you're gonna really want to leave. And they're gonna. You're gonna come to your friends. And he looked at the bridesmaids and he looked at the groomsmen and he was like, and they're gonna come to you and they're gonna say, this person did xyz. And you have to say, you witnessed their marriage today. You stay in it. You stay in that marriage. And I was sitting in the back like, girl, you come to me if he does something. Because I'm gonna tell you the truth and I'm gonna tell you whether or not you have to stay in that marriage. And it made me sad that it was like, I understand the beauty of it. I understand the commitment to the hard times and I love that. But there's a line. I don't like the idea that, like, no matter what they do, you made a commitment.

[Mackenzie]

No, this is not. That's. I. That unconditional love quote unquote type of thought process. Like, I love my son unconditionally. There's nothing he could do, anything at all, that would make me stop loving him. In a relationship where I have a choice, like, whether or not I'm gonna love you, like, if you around, you're gonna find out, like, you know what I mean?

[Hannah]

Yep. Yeah. You know what it comes back to? Trust your goddamn femme tuition.

[Mackenzie]

Trust your femme tuition.

[Hannah]

And if anybody's using your belief system in a way that doesn't align with that, which I know it's hard, and no blame if you take a while to get there, but, like, that's off. So, yes, religious abuse is real. And we're just to make it extra clear, like, we both have a lot of love for certain parts of religion and religious communities. And. And we'd love to hear your experience, good and bad, with navigating this, because I think. I think it just can relate to it.

[Mackenzie]

It just gets sticky with religion because everybody's opinions are so different, and we don't want to take the stance of, like. Like, this is the only way that's right. This is the only way that's wrong. Like, I know I'm. I'm. I'm not gonna use my podcast to preach. I'm just not. This is not the place for it. Like, I'm.

[Hannah]

Well, we preach trusting your fem tuition. That's our.

[Mackenzie]

That's our amen, sister. Amen.

[Hannah]

That's our missionary. Honestly, I think, hey, I like to think that that aligns with all of the religions. Although, actually, I go back to my.

[Mackenzie]

Sexism, but people are really tied closely to their religion, and so to use that against someone is absolutely horrible. So.

[Hannah]

No, no. Oh, I have one other thing that I wanted to bring up. The bystander situation, one at Disney, when she was, like, being berated in front of a crowd and nobody did anything, which makes me really sad. And it made me think about how I can move through the world in a way that is more helpful. And I think I've talked about this before because obviously, you don't want to, like, put yourself in danger or you don't always know the whole situation. But one thing I. I have heard people do and I've tried to do at, like, clubs and stuff, you know, like, party situations, just going up to somebody that looks like they're having a thing, usually a woman, and being like, hey, girl, come here. Oh, my God, it's good to see you, or something like that, and then just being like, hey, do you know this guy? Do you feel safe, like, getting that kind of quick conversation? Because they might be like, yeah, I do. I'm fine. But it still, like, de escalates a little bit if something was going on. I'm not especially if that.

[Mackenzie]

If the. If the person that you think could be dangerous, they kind of get taken off. Like, they know now they see that someone's noticed and they're like, oh, crap, I better. Do you say something or do you not? Is the whole thing. And so then it goes back to, first of all, see something, say something, right? Like, I would rather.

[Hannah]

I would say something.

[Mackenzie]

I would rather say something and it be nothing than not say something and have missed an opportunity to save someone's life, Right? So then it becomes tricky. What's your personality? If you're someone who's very timid and shy, you're probably not going to say something, right? Me, I'll be like, yo, bro, what's going on? Or whatever. But then it's like, at what point is that dangerous? At what point is what. What you say going to put that person in danger? So it becomes really tricky. I would love to talk to someone who knows, I guess, tactical verbal techniques that you could use to, like, intervention help. Some intervention. Yeah, that would be really kind of interesting, I think.

[Hannah]

I think that's a great idea. If you're just a bystander to what looks like an altercation of some kind.

[Mackenzie]

Do you say something?

[Hannah]

And what are the options, too? Like, Because I'm sure for a shy person, maybe the option is call an employee that works there. You know what I mean? Like, maybe there are other good things that people can do that are not, like getting up in his face. I don't know. That's a good question. Let's. Let's put it out to the sleuthies.

[Mackenzie]

I'm just grateful that. Thank you, Jubilee, for sharing your story. And you guys. Please email us your stories. Also, we want to be a voice for you. Use our podcast as a voice, as a platform to say what you're scared to say. Share it with others who can learn from it and benefit from your experience. Our email address is investigate podcast.com. you're welcome.

[Hannah]

Round of applause. Round of applause.

[Mackenzie]

Hannah's looking at me like she's so.

[Jubilee]

Proud, and I'm so proud.

[Hannah]

Mama the brow.

[Jubilee]

She's a proud mama.

[Mackenzie]

So, yeah, email us your stories.

[Hannah]

Yeah. And like we said at the Beginning, Patreon is $5 a month, and we do extra episodes. We do live streams. We started a book club, and I will tell you the book we're reading this month, which is called it's not you by Dr. Romney Durasula, who's a narcissist expert. I'm starting it, and I'm already thinking a lot about this episode. Like, it's.

[Mackenzie]

What's the rest of the title?

[Hannah]

Okay, I'll. I'll look at it.

[Mackenzie]

It's not you.

[Hannah]

Healing from.

[Mackenzie]

Wait.

[Hannah]

Identifying and healing from narcissistic People.

[Mackenzie]

Okay, so. And this is. You said this is the one where they were. It's actually focused on the. The victim as opposed to the perpetrator, the narcissist, whatever. Like, we're talking about the actual person who dealt with it.

[Hannah]

She obviously talks about what narcissism is and stuff, but she's a lot less interested in understanding narcissists and a lot more interested in understanding the effect they have on survivors. She was like, as a therapist, there's a lot of teaching on how to be a therapist for narcissists, but she's like, there's not a lot of teaching on how to be a therapist for.

[Mackenzie]

People in relationships with narcissist.

[Hannah]

So we're into that. We like that.

[Mackenzie]

So send us your stories. We want to hear from you. Join the book club. Join the Patreon. It's $5 a month. And as always.

[Hannah]

Bye, everybod.