10/23/25: NYC debate mania as Trump demented while Canada says bye-bye

Summary

The David Pakman Show – Episode Summary
Date: October 23, 2025
Title: NYC Debate Mania as Trump Demented While Canada Says Bye-Bye
Host: David Pakman

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Episode Overview

This episode of The David Pakman Show provides a sharp, satirical, and often biting analysis of the major political events dominating the headlines: New York City’s chaotic mayoral debate, Canada’s public “breakup” with the U.S. under Trump, Trump’s escalating narcissism and wild claims, the ongoing government shutdown, the White House’s costly makeover, Republican healthcare evasion, and cringeworthy moments in right-wing media. Through direct quotes, robust breakdowns, and notable exchanges, Pakman critiques the current state of politics with his signature wit and fact-based commentary.

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Key Segments & Analysis

1. NYC Mayoral Debate Meltdown

Timestamps: 00:00–12:11

Participants:

• David Pakman (analysis/reaction)
• Zoran Mamdani (socialist, Democratic frontrunner)
• Andrew Cuomo (former NY Governor)
• Curtis Sliwa (Republican candidate)

Highlights:

• Cuomo’s Catastrophic Performance: Pakman labels the debate a “complete disaster” for Cuomo, crediting Mamdani as the clear front-runner and more likable candidate.

  • “Cuomo, the former governor of New York, comes off as deeply unlikable, out of touch, and disingenuous.” (00:53, Pakman)

• Sexual Harassment Allegations: Mamdani confronts Cuomo directly, referencing the many allegations and a specific accuser in the audience:

  • “What do you say to the 13 women that you sexually harassed?” (02:53, Mamdani)
  • “...the cases were dropped. Right. You know, that is a fact. So everything you just stated...was a misstatement...” (03:49, Cuomo)
  • Pakman interjects: “Just because a case can't be prosecuted doesn't mean something didn't happen. A lot of sexual harassment is also not criminal.” (04:19, Pakman)

• Sliwa’s One-Liners:

  • “Andrew, you didn't leave. You fled from being impeached by the Democrats in the state legislature.” (07:15, Sliwa)
  • “Your resume could fit on a cocktail napkin. And, Andrew, your failures could fill a public school library in New York City.” (07:32, Sliwa)

• Endorsement Question:

  • Cuomo would accept Adams’ endorsement; Sliwa responds: “Absolutely not. Put that crook in jail where he belongs.” (08:15, Sliwa)
  • Mamdani: “No.” (08:12, Mamdani)

• Charges Against Cuomo:

  • Mamdani on Cuomo’s record: “The issue is that we have all experienced your experience—the issue is that you took a $5 million book deal while you sent seniors to their deaths in nursing homes.” (08:46, Mamdani)

• Policy Absurdities & Insults:

  • Cuomo’s attempt at humor: “I’m going to save a bed in a psychiatric hospital for Curtis Sliwa.” (10:07, Cuomo – audience unimpressed)

Pakman’s Tone & Concluding Thoughts:

• “It seems like a foregone conclusion that Mamdani is going to run away with this thing.”
• “Cuomo is simply not that. He is not living up to the moment.” (12:11, Pakman)

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2. Canada Publicly Distances from Trump’s America

Timestamps: 12:11–17:16

Participants:

• Mark Carney (Prime Minister of Canada, at CPAC)
• David Pakman (commentary)

Highlights:

• Major Announcement: Carney openly declares that the decades-long process of deepening economic ties with the U.S. is “now over” due to Trump.

  • “This decades long process of an ever closer economic relationship with the United States is now over.” (16:09, Carney)

• Canada Reinvesting in Itself:

  • “We will build Canadian. The new security threats...mean we’re making the biggest investments in our military in generations. ...Our upcoming budget will move forward with our by Canadian policy, prioritizing Canadian steel, aluminum, lumber, manufactured good and technology for Canadian projects.” (13:28-15:00, Carney)

• Pakman’s Analysis:

  • “This is a disaster for the United States. This is barely getting attention. …The Prime Minister of Canada, a long term ally…they’re saying, ‘we’re just not that into you anymore.’ And it’s because of Donald Trump.” (16:45-17:16, Pakman)

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3. Trump’s Narcissistic Collapse & Outlandish Claims

Timestamps: 22:13–23:04

Highlights:

• Trump’s Bizarre Presidential Ranking:
  • “[People said,] ‘You’re the third best president.’ …George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. And I got extremely angry at this man... It’s going to be tough to beat Washington and Lincoln, but we’re going to give it a try.” (22:13, Trump)

Pakman’s Response:

• “Imagine being so detached from reality that you’re angry that people don’t rank you above Abraham Lincoln.” (22:53, Pakman)
• “He cannot separate personal validation from reality and is so desperate to be loved and to be seen as the best.” (22:53, Pakman)
• Explains how Trump’s “bubble of yes men” feeds his delusion.

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4. Hostile Rhetoric & The White House Makeover

Timestamps: 27:31–31:02

Topics:

• Trump Threatens Gavin Newsom:

  • “Gavin had better be careful.” (Trump, 27:46)
  • Pakman ridicules this as intimidation based on Trump’s insecurity.

• $300 Million Gilded Ballroom:

  • Trump explains East Wing demolition and new ballroom for “honoring foreign leaders.”
  • “What’s another 50 million between friends, right? In donor money, of course.” (31:02, Pakman)

• Pakman’s Sarcasm:

  • “Remember, money can’t buy class. And if Trump represents anything, it’s that money cannot buy class.” (31:44, Pakman)

• Reporter Confrontation:

  • Trump grows hostile: “You’re a third rate reporter, always have been.” (31:25, Trump)

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5. Policy Evasions & Republican Contradictions

Timestamps: 41:19–43:22

MAGA Mike Johnson on Healthcare:

• Asserts a GOP health care plan exists but is a “secret” until the government shutdown ends.
  • “We need to get back to regular session... We will not negotiate with legislative terrorists.” (41:33, Johnson)
  • Pressed by Kaitlan Collins: “If the government reopened tonight, would Republicans have a plan?” Johnson: “Yes. Yes, we have proposals to—yeah, we could have that ready immediately.” (43:11, Johnson)

Pakman’s Analysis:

• “This is like when I pick up my daughter from daycare and she says, ‘Let’s go to the playground,’ and then when it’s time to go, she goes, ‘No, we just got here.’” (43:22, Pakman)
• “MAGA Mike Johnson’s clueless, Trump’s clueless, they’re all clueless.” (43:22, Pakman)

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6. Senator Susan Collins Dodges a Struggling Constituent

Timestamps: 48:03–50:34

Story:

• Andrew Volk, Maine small business owner, tries to discuss ACA tax credits with Senator Susan Collins. Her staff re-routes him to a legislative aide; Collins then evades direct contact.

Memorable Quotes:

• Andrew: “I haven’t seen Senator Collins fighting the administration. I haven’t seen her fighting for Mainers…I don’t see the action.” (49:05, Andrew Volk)
• Collins’ classic style: “She’s also concerned about the rising cost of health care as well.” (49:35, Aide)
• Pakman: “The bigger picture here is I’m so sick of Susan Collins...she’s really not moderate. She’s polite while doing all the same things that just about every single one of them do.” (50:34, Pakman)

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7. Right-Wing Media Unhinged: Trump’s Feces Meme and Fox News Reaction

Timestamps: 55:56–58:42

Fox News' Jesse Watters:

• Praises Trump’s AI-generated “feces bomb” meme targeting protesters, including Harry Sisson.
  • “Trump’s a meme lord. He’s strafing feces over everybody.” (56:01, Watters)

Pakman’s Satire:

• “Fox hosts cheering the president’s latest feces meme like it’s a masterstroke of political communication...It’s memetic warfare. It’s owning the libs.” (56:11, Pakman)

A Token Dose of Reality:

• Fox panelist shares that her mother’s small business, importing from Canada, is being crushed by rising costs:
  • “The anticipation of it has the suppliers bringing the prices up. She is not passing it on to consumers. She is eating it…My mom supports the president and believes that somehow…this period of discomfort will eventually ease.” (57:59, Fox Host)

Pakman’s Take:

• “We’re getting all of the real story: small business owners are getting crushed and the cultists don’t care and they’re still going to support Donald Trump.” (58:42, Pakman)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps & Attribution)

• “What do you say to the 13 women that you sexually harassed?” – Zoran Mamdani (02:53)
• “Just because a case can't be prosecuted doesn't mean something didn't happen.” – David Pakman (04:19)
• “Andrew, you didn't leave. You fled from being impeached by the Democrats in the state legislature.” – Curtis Sliwa (07:15)
• “This decades long process of an ever closer economic relationship with the United States is now over.” – Mark Carney (16:09)
• “Imagine being so detached from reality that you’re angry that people don’t rank you above Abraham Lincoln.” – David Pakman (22:53)
• “MAGA Mike Johnson’s clueless, Trump’s clueless, they’re all clueless.” – David Pakman (43:22)
• “I haven’t seen Senator Collins fighting for Mainers…I don’t see the action.” – Andrew Volk (49:05)
• “Trump’s a meme lord. He’s strafing feces over everybody.” – Jesse Watters (56:01)
• “Fox hosts cheering the president’s latest feces meme like it’s a masterstroke of political communication...” – David Pakman (56:11)
• “We’re getting all of the real story: small business owners are getting crushed and the cultists don’t care and they’re still going to support Donald Trump.” – David Pakman (58:42)

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Memorable Moments

• Mamdani confronting Cuomo on allegations in front of accuser Charlotte Bennett. (02:53–03:49)
• Sliwa’s cutting insults, especially about fleeing impeachment. (07:15)
• Cuomo’s botched attempt at a psychiatric joke, falling flat. (10:07–10:13)
• Mark Carney’s blunt termination of Canada-U.S. economic integration. (16:09–16:45)
• Trump’s meltdown about being “only” the third best president. (22:13–22:53)
• Fox News' celebration (rather than condemnation) of Trump’s “feces bomb” meme. (56:01–56:11)

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Episode Takeaways

• A Damning Look at Leadership: From Trump’s unhinged behavior and disregard for tradition or alliances (Canada moving away, White House project), to Cuomo’s failing comebacks, the episode illustrates a crisis of competence and ethics across the GOP and some Democratic establishment figures.
• Performative Politics & Substance Gaps: Republican leadership’s repeated dodges on health care and “solutions” are lampooned as hollow rhetoric.
• Media & Memes: Right-wing media’s descent into glorifying crude memes, rather than discussing real policy impacts, is exposed as symptomatic of Trump-era conservatism.
• Real-World Consequences: Constituents and small business owners are being hurt by current politics, but GOP leaders evade responsibility and accountability.

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Further Listening

Pakman teases more stories—including a controversial Maine Senate race, Elon Musk’s new Nashville tunnel project, and Pentagon press corps drama—on the day’s Bonus Show, available at joinpacman.com.

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Summary compiled by [Podcast Summarizer AI]. For more engaging breakdowns, tune in to The David Pakman Show and subscribe for daily, in-depth news and commentary.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

On today's show, we will look at the New York City mayoral debate, which did not go well for Andrew Cuomo. Canada is breaking up with us over Donald Trump. And Trump's latest demented rant has him claiming to be better than Lincoln. And Washington as a president. Gavin Newsom is under threat. Ominously told to be careful, the White House continues to be demolished. Not metaphorically. It's been metaphorically demonic, demolished for nine months now, but physically demolished. And MAGA Mike Johnson says they do have a health care plan, but now it's a secret. We've been waiting for this thing for a long time now. Senator Susan Collins was confronted by a constituent whose business is getting crushed by Republican policy. And Jesse Watters also says he really liked Trump's feature feces bomb. Can you believe it? All of those stories and more on today's show. This. You know, sometimes we record the show and immediately delete it because it's no good. I say we keep today's show. Let's keep a record of this one because it is good. Plus, we've got a phenomenal bonus show planned for you. And so many other things, including the main Senate race fiasco involving Graham Platner and others. All of it on the bonus show. What a program. Glad you're with me today. We start today with the New York City mayoral debate. This was really something to see. You know, I. You all know I'm not a socialist, right? Some of you like that, some of you dislike that. I'm a Social Democrat. It's a highly regulated form of capitalism. It's what they have in Denmark, it's what they have in Sweden. Zoran Mamdani says he's a socialist. That's a political difference that I have with him. But I can't look at this race objectively and come to any conclusion other than Mamdani is clearly the most likable. Candidate. Sliwa. Curtis Sliwa, the Republican, is completely off the rails, albeit funny. And Andrew Cuomo, the former governor of New York, comes off as deeply unlikable, out of touch and disingenuous. Now, I don't know him personally. That's a political assessment. You know, I, I know his brother, Chris Cuomo, and sometimes Chris and I will chat. And this has. These are not personal attacks. This is my analysis of the race. And this was just a complete disaster for Cuomo. I'll start with maybe the most intense moment when Mamdani goes right at Cuomo over the sexual harassment and assault allegations, including from one woman who is in the audience.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mr. Cuomo, in 2021, 13 different women who worked in your administration credibly accused you of sexual harassment. Since then, you have spent more than $20 million in taxpayers funds to defend yourself, all while describing these allegations as entirely political. You have even gone so far as to legally go after these women. One of those women, Charlotte Bennett, is here in the audience this evening. You sought to access her private gynecological records. She cannot speak up for herself because you lodged a defamation case against, against her. I, however, can speak. What do you say to the 13 women that you sexually harassed?

[Andrew Cuomo]

If you, if you want to be in government, then you have to be serious and mature. There were allegations of sexual harassment. They were then went to five district attorneys, fully litigated for four years. The cases were dropped. Right. You know, that is a fact. So everything you just stated, you just said was a misstatement, which we're accustomed.

[Zoran Mamdani]

To stated was a misstatement because the.

[Andrew Cuomo]

Cases, the cases were dropped.

[David Pakman]

Now this is probably, I mean, listen, I guess this is Cuomo's best defense. We all of course know that just because a case can't be prosecuted doesn't mean something didn't happen. A lot of sexual harassment is also not criminal. And so I don't know, like, maybe this is the best Cuomo could do with it, but it really wasn't great. And the groaning, the audible groaning at the answer, not so good. Now, Curtis Sliwa, I, I got to tell you, I don't agree with this guy Sliwa on just about anything, but he had some, some lines cooked up that he was ready to go with. Here he is sort of attacking both Mamdani and Cuomo. And again, I don't agree with Sliwa's politics, but he came prepared with at least some one liners.

[Curtis Sliwa]

Jorah, you talk about free, free, free, but we know that somebody's got to pay for it, and that's you, the taxpayers. And that's going to lead to bankruptcy. The only reason that Zoran is on the stage is because of the failed Governor Cuomo, who was rejected by the Democrats in the primary and rejected by 13 women who charged you with sexual harassment. Do you ever know that no means no? You know what no means?

[Andrew Cuomo]

Sweat.

[David Pakman]

Your question is to Mr. Who's your.

[Andrew Cuomo]

Who is your question?

[Curtis Sliwa]

We can bifurcate it, right?

[Donald Trump]

No, no, you know, you can't.

[David Pakman]

Who is your question?

[Curtis Sliwa]

It's to Cuomo.

[Andrew Cuomo]

Okay. Your response, Mr. Cuomo? I'm not sure what the man said.

[David Pakman]

But.

[Andrew Cuomo]

The the situation, my legal situation, as we discussed before, was fully litigated. I was dropped from the cases anyway.

[David Pakman]

You know, Sliwa came prepared. He's doing what we. What he can with. With a situation that is not favorable to him to win this race. Obviously, when Andrew Cuomo said that the number of homeless increased since he left, he was accused by Sliwa not of leaving, but of fleeing. And this was maybe Sli was best moment.

[Andrew Cuomo]

The homeless issue, number of home homeless since I left has more than doubled during his administration and the state's administration. Since I left, homeless rate has more than doubled. When I left, the vacancy rate on housing was 4.5%. It's now 1%. This man never even proposed a bill on housing or education. Never even proposed a bill.

[Donald Trump]

Keep going back and forth between the two of you. Mr. Sliwa, it's your turn.

[Curtis Sliwa]

Andrew, you didn't leave. You fled from being impeached by the Democrats in the state legislature.

[David Pakman]

Slew. Sliwa came prepared to try to make some lemonade out of the very few lemons available to him. And another one was this line.

[Curtis Sliwa]

I heard the both of them again, fighting like kids in the schoolyard. Joran, your resume could fit on a cocktail napkin. And, Andrew, your failures could fill a public school library in New York City.

[David Pakman]

Okay, that's really. That's really not a bad line. Even though the crowd, crowd, crowd wasn't really going for it. The question was asked whether the three candidates, Cuomo, Mamdani, and Sliwa, would accept an endorsement from. From outgoing New York City Mayor Eric Adams. If it were offered. Would any of you accept Mayor Adams's endorsement?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mr. Mandani?

[David Pakman]

No.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mr. Cuomo.

[Donald Trump]

Yes, I would.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mr. Sliwa.

[Curtis Sliwa]

Absolutely not. Put that crook in jail where he belongs.

[Zoran Mamdani]

And final.

[David Pakman]

A fun one.

[Andrew Cuomo]

Be careful.

[David Pakman]

All right? And Cuomo, they are very, very. You got to be careful with that. You got to be super careful. Mamdani came prepared as well. And here was another one of his attacks on Andrew Cuomo, who is really the only other potentially viable challenger. Even though it looks like Mamdani is going to run away with this thing.

[Andrew Cuomo]

In 2027, you still have an answer.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You will hear from Andrew Cuomo about his experience. As if. The issue is that we don't know about it. The issue is that we have all experienced your experience. The issue is that we experienced you taking a $5 million book deal while you sent seniors to their deaths in nursing homes. The issue is that we experienced you cutting funding for the MTA to Send money to upstate ski resorts.

[David Pakman]

The issue is that we saw you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Give $959 million in tax breaks to Elon Musk. The issue is your experience.

[David Pakman]

The only thing absolutely just cooking cookie. Just tear it. Not. Not even a bit of daylight there for Cuomo to try to pull himself up. Cuomo snarkiest moment was probably this one. When the topic of psychiatric hospitals came up. Cuomo said he was going to save a bed in one of the hospitals for Curtis Sliwa. Funny, but not likely the way to get Curtis Sliwa to drop out and endorse Cuomo, which is really Cuomo's only shot at this point.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you.

[Curtis Sliwa]

40,000 beds for mental health in the state hospital system. By the time you fled, fearing impeachment, you cut the budget down to 4,000 beds. Shame on you. Emotionally disturbed persons in the street.

[Andrew Cuomo]

You don't know what you think there's one bet I'm going to say for you, but the no one is saying.

[David Pakman]

There'S one bet I'm going to save for you. It was not one that the audience received very well. Another good moment for Mamdani pointing out that a lot of Andrew Cuomo's criticisms are of how the state screws the city are relevant to moments when Cuomo was governor. Mamdani sort of implying it was you screwing the city, if that's what was taking place.

[Andrew Cuomo]

You had the worst attendance record in the assembly and you gave yourselves the highest raise in the United States of America. You went from $110,000 to $140,000. And then. And you never showed up for work and you missed 80% of the votes. Shame on you. Shame on you.

[Zoran Mamdani]

It is always a pleasure to hear Andrew Cuomo create his own facts at every debate stage. We just had a former governor say in his own words that the city has been getting screwed by the state. Who was leading the state?

[David Pakman]

It was you, Governor Hogel.

[Andrew Cuomo]

Governor Hogel screwing this. No, you as a legislator.

[David Pakman]

Now, of course, the truth is that the time period related to this discussion includes a little bit of Andrew Cuomo's tenure as governor and a bunch of Kathy Hochul's tenure as governor. It doesn't matter. It's a good line. These debates are performative. They're not really about policy. And then finally, the candidates asked, if there was a ranked choice election, how would you all vote? Rank each other.

[Zoran Mamdani]

If there was a ranked choice election.

[Fox News Host (possibly Jesse Watters or another commentator)]

How would you vote?

[Zoran Mamdani]

Mr. Mandani, if there was a ranked choice election in this, you'd have to rank these myself number one and Curtis number two. Mr. Sliwa.

[Curtis Sliwa]

Oh, please don't be glazing me. Here's all right. Are you kidding? Mr. Slee, do I support ranked choice voting? But I'd only vote for myself and this.

[David Pakman]

There you go. Listen, this is a fascinating race. The outcome at this point is the least interesting thing in that it seems like a foregone conclusion that Mamdani is going to run away with this thing. But it is a fascinating race in that it has really shown that there is a desire for a new type of Democratic candidate and Cuomo is simply not that he is not living up to the moment. I look very much forward to seeing what those results end up being. Canada is breaking up with the United States. Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, spoke at cpac. This is a. It's not that cpac. It's not the Canadian Political Actual Action Conference. It's the Canadian. I'm sorry, it's not the Conservative Political Action Conference. It's the Canadian something. CPAC of Canada, Mark Carney making it clear Canada's done with the United States under Trump. They are going to invest inside of Canada. That means military, that means defense, that means industry. And there is one five letter word that is the reason why this is all happening and that is Trump.

[Mark Carney]

Our strategy will recognize that in today's global economy we have to build sustainably. It's not just a moral duty, it's also an economic imperative. It is a moral duty, but it's an economic imperative. Now above all, we will build Canadian. The new security threats the world is bringing to our shores means we're making the biggest investments in our military in generations. But up until now, more than 70 cents of every dollar of war military spending, military capital expending by our government goes to the United States.

[David Pakman]

Oh.

[Mark Carney]

With our new Defense Investment Agency, we will make sure we build more of our security and defense capabilities here at home, creating new careers in aerospace and shipbuilding and cyber and AI for Canadian engineers, technicians and scientists. It's the same thing in steel. Consider that while 80% of the steel that Europe buys is manufactured in Europe, 75% of the steel that the U.S. buys is manufactured in the U.S. only 40% of the steel that we use is made here. That doesn't make sense. Not when we have the people, the resources and the companies to build right here in Canada. So our upcoming budget will move forward with our by Canadian policy prioritizing Canadian steel, aluminum, lumber, manufactured good and technology for Canadian projects.

[David Pakman]

Why is it that when Trump is president. We have more and more distance with our traditional Western democratic allies and we are tighter with dictators and authoritarians. Why is there now a move by Canada to move away from the United States while Trump is closer than ever to Putin, closer than ever to Viktor Orban in Hungary, and enamored with authoritarian dictators around the world? Well, it's obvious why. It's because Trump doesn't respect democracy. Trump isn't impressed by democracy. When you tell Trump, hey, look at this country where the will of the people depend, determines who leads them and the leaders are responsive to the will of the people, that's not impressive to Trump. What's impressive to Trump is how drug trials in China are very short and they always end in conviction. That's interesting to Trump. That's impressive to Trump. That's what Trump is enamored by. Carney continued and said, we have had decades and decades of getting closer to the United States and that is now over.

[Mark Carney]

So because of these advantages, over decades, our economy grew steadily more integrated with the United States through the Free Trade agreement of the 1980s, the NAFTA accord of the 1990s, and eventually USMCA agreement signed in 2018. Canada's trade increased by over 400% during that period and our economy doubled in size. But this process, this decades long process of an ever close, closer economic relationship with the United States is now over.

[David Pakman]

Oh, boy.

[Mark Carney]

And as a consequence, many of our former strengths as a country, former strengths, more particularly as our economy strengths based on close ties to America, have become our vulnerabilities. And as a result of that, the jobs of workers in our industries most affected by the US Tariffs and autos and steel and lumber are under threat. And our businesses are holding back investments restrained by the pall of uncertainty that's hanging over all of us.

[David Pakman]

This is not good for the United States and I know that it's. We, we, we have to all pretend that Republicans know what they're talking about when they say, oh, Trump's making us strong and he's forging ahead and making the US Independent. This is a disaster for the United States. This is barely getting attention. This, this is a major piece of news. The Prime Minister of Canada, a long term ally, one of our major trading partners, we have multilateral bilateral and multilateral trade agreements with Canada. They're saying, we're just not that into you guys anymore. And it is because of Donald Trump. Now, of course, many of us will think, hope and expect that once Trump is gone. January of 2029, or whenever he is finally gone, all of these relationships get repaired. But as I said, when it comes to China looking elsewhere for soybeans, which we'll get to later in the show, the other country doesn't have the incentive to come crawling back to the United States once they get independent of the United States. On might be steel, might be auto parts, it might be soybeans, it might be something else. They're all set. It's the United States that ends up screwed and they've got us over a barrel. So the damage that Trump is doing, when you look at farmers and what they are saying, we see the damage that's being done right now, but the longer term effect of this damage is going to be felt. I mean, listen, it could be felt indefinitely. These could be irreparable relationships. And Mark Carney isn't even doing it quietly. He's doing it publicly. It's yet another way in which Trump is just screwing the average person. But he's going to be fine. Don't worry. All right. Awesome. New sponsor to talk about wild Alaskan company. They do sustainable seafood memberships. I got one of these boxes and it is just phenomenal. The whole point with wild Alaskan seafood is that it's 100% wild caught, it's never farmed. It's from sustainably managed food fisheries in Alaska, frozen at the peak of freshness and then delivered to you. They've got three curated boxes. The wild salmon box, the wild whitefish box and the wild combo box. I got a box that had everything beautifully vacuum sealed. The fish comes in pre portioned fillets. We had crab, we had scallops. I know I should be saying scallops, I just, it's just not for me. I call them scallops, okay? Delicious and sustainable. They have a sustainable supply driven approach. They get products during the harvest season in a way that doesn't deplete the resources of Alaska's wild fisheries. I encourage you to go to wild alaskan.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN for $35 off your first box. The link is in the description. Now, let's be honest. When it is hot outside, the way it's been, bad underwear makes it really much worse. Our sponsor, Sheath Underwear has completely rethought how men's underwear should function in the heat. Sheath's boxer briefs are designed with a dual pouch system keeping everything in place separate ventilated. This means less sweat, less sticking, less of that awkward adjusting. And if you're not using the pouches the fabric alone is a game changer. Soft, stretchy, moisture wicking now available in cooling materials like bamboo and mesh. I wear these at the gym during long work days, especially when I know it's going to be hot outside. It just keeps you dry and comfortable and they've really raised my expectations about how good, good underwear can be. Wearing sheath is like having built in climate control for the lower half of your body. Everything stays cool, dry and where it should be. If you've never thought much about your underwear, this is the one brand that might make you start. Go to sheath underwear.com/pacman. Use the code PACMAN for 20% off. The link is in the description. Donald Trump now says he is better than Lincoln and better than Washington as president. President in his latest demented rant. You'd better praise Trump or he's going to be angry with you. This may be one of Donald Trump's wackiest and craziest claims yet. This took place outside the White House. Donald Trump suffering what can really only be described as a narcissistic collapse. He's no longer saying that he's up there with Lincoln and Washington as the best president ever. Now he says he gets angry when people don't say that he's better than Lincoln and better than Washington. If you say Trump is the third best president ever, he will be mad at you. He will be angry.

[Donald Trump]

The great George Washington all the way to. Well, I think we have to rate him above me. So less than great, less than George. Somebody went up there. They say you're the third best president in the United. This was on television, third best. And they said, who are the first two? George Washington and Abraham Lincoln. And I got extremely angry at this man. You know, you can't. It's going to be, it's going to be tough to beat Mr. Senator. It's going to be. John. It's going to be very tough to beat Washington and Lincoln, but we're going to give it a try, right? Hey, they didn't put out eight wars. Nine coming. All right? We put out eight wars and the ninth is coming.

[David Pakman]

Believe it or not, Lincoln gave his life to hold the United States together. Trump tried to rip the country apart because he lost an election and he couldn't admit it like a big boy. Lincoln freed the slaves. Trump freed Jorge Santos. Ok? This is the contrast that we have and Trump wants us to say, no, you're better. You're so good, sir. You know how normal people say, I'm proud of the work, I've done. Trump hears a random guy at Mar a Lago say, you're the third best president, and he's off the rails all of a sudden. He cannot separate personal validation from reality and is so desperate to be loved and to be liked and to be seen as the best. Imagine being so detached from reality that you're angry that people don't rank you above Abraham Lincoln. And in all seriousness, this is what happens when you live in this bubble of yes men and culture followers. You know, when we had Sarah Matthews on the show now a couple of times, she's a former deputy press secretary to Donald Trump during his first term. She worked under Kayleigh McEnany. She I asked her how is it that Trump ends up with these delusional beliefs? And she explained, there is a bubble around the guy. He's kept insulated, he's fed information that's going to make him happy, that's going to please him. And so when you're around that for years now, it's been a decade, you start to think you actually belong next to Lincoln and Washington and your face should be up there on Mount Rushmore. And you can see Trump unraveling because that's not the recognition that he's getting. He's not trying to lead anymore. Trump is now trying to convince himself. And this is not how presidents talk. Now, there is another aspect to this that I do think is relevant to mention and important to talk about. When it comes to Donald Trump and his rankings, one of the areas that is really kind of an intangible with how presidents have done or how presidents are seen retrospectively is how the United States is seen around the world and the relationships that we have or don't have. And even though Donald Trump spent, what is it, years telling us while Biden was president, we're not respected under Biden. We're going to be respected when, when I become president again, we are going to see that the, the world is moving away from the United States in ways that it never did under Joe Biden. And if we say, well, let's evaluate it based on the level of respect for the office of the presidency based on global surveys, it's in the toilet. Let's evaluate it based on the motivation that other countries have to be allied with the United States, they don't seem concerned. I mean, just earlier in the show, we talked about Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney saying, hey, you know, the decades of getting closer and closer to the United States, that's over. It just, it's over. It doesn't make sense anymore. And you can say a lot of things about Joe Biden. You could say he didn't accomplish enough. He shouldn't have run for reelection. He failed to secure the student loan debt relief that we maybe hope that he would secure. But Biden was respected around the world as an ambassador to the of the United States, as an advocate for the United States. And the United States was part of, part of global decisions and discussions under Biden. Under Trump, it's the opposite. And we saw that during his first term, and we're seeing it now. So Donald Trump is clearly suffering a narcissistic collapse. As Donald Trump approaches 80 years old and he realizes that his time on this Earth and his time on the Oval in the Oval Office is. Is limited, he's increasingly concerned with legacy. And this is what's leading him to lash out and to do things that will be harder to reverse. Certainly the demolishing and building of a ballroom at the White House is part of it. He wants things that won't be reversed so his legacy can live on. But the greatest legacy of Trump so far is that he has distanced us. He has alienated us from our historical and typical allies. And he's also doing it while threatening a whole bunch of different people. And I want to dig into that a little bit. Donald Trump is now threatening California Governor Gavin Newsom. He said Newsom had better be careful. Gavin had better be careful. And what I believe this is truly reflective of is that Donald Trump is terrified. Donald Trump is lashing out and threatening people because he is afraid he's not going to get his way. He is afraid that others are more liked than he is. And you know what? That's true. And one of those people happens to be Gavin Newsom. This makes him extraordinarily insecure. This makes him extraordinarily angry. And he's saying, Gavin has to be careful. In Los Angeles, immigration officials were attacked.

[Donald Trump]

Attacked by some protesters to arrest an illegal alien. Gavin Newsom.

[David Pakman]

Other Democrats have used very aggressive language in terms of how to address out in the field.

[Donald Trump]

Is there any responsibility that we can place on Gavin Newsom and other elected.

[David Pakman]

Officials who are using such aggressive language?

[Donald Trump]

Well, Gavin has to be careful. Remember that when I first came in, they had a terrible riot in Los Angeles. They had the fires which shouldn't have happened. They didn't have the water for the fires. They should have had the water coming in from the Pacific Northwest. They didn't have the waters. They didn't have water in the Hydrants or the sprinklers. So they had the fires and then they had the riot. And if we didn't go and take care of that riot, you would have lost Los Angeles. You would have canceled the Olympics, which is because of me in Los Angeles.

[David Pakman]

This is all completely made up. Gavin had better be careful. And then it's lie after lie after lie. There was no big emergency in Los Angeles. The mayor said we don't need federal troops. The governor, Newsom said we don't need federal troops. It was contained within a two by two or two by three block area. And Trump just can't help himself. He just keeps lying and lying and lying. And now he says Newsom has to be careful. Careful of what exactly? Trump then started talking about what's going on at the White House. And we're going to talk later about the demolishing of the White House. And you might have noticed or you might not have noticed that the price of this project has quietly gone from $250 million to $300 million. I thought it was only going to cost 250. And of course, it's funded by donors, friends of Donald Trump. It was a $200 million project to 250, and now it is $300 million. Just changing this topic slightly. I see you've got the model of.

[Mark Carney]

The White House and the ballroom.

[David Pakman]

Many people were surprised the entire East Wing is being demolished because you had.

[Mark Carney]

Said initially that the ballroom would just.

[Donald Trump]

Touch or would not. Well, certain areas, certain areas are being left. We determined that after really a tremendous amount of study with, with some of the best architects in the world, we determined that really knocking it down, trying to use a little section, you know, the East Wing was not much. It was not much left from the original. It was over the course of 100 years, it was changed, the columns were removed, and it was a much different building. Then a story was added on. In 1948, 1949, there was a story added on which was not particularly nice. And the building, building was very, very much changed from what it was originally. It was never thought of as being much. It was a very small building. And rather than allowing that to hurt, a very expensive, beautiful building that frankly, they've been after for years. You have that. I brought these along so people could see.

[David Pakman]

But now Trump pulls plans out.

[Donald Trump]

It's, you know, there's a relative. Nobody's actually seen anything quite like it. I think it will be one of the great ballrooms anywhere in the world. It's about $300 million it's set to do many, many things, including meetings of foreign leaders, including the honoring of foreign leaders. You can see this, this is a plan. If it's got tables so that you.

[David Pakman]

There's tables. In case anybody was unsure, the ballroom will have tables.

[Donald Trump]

Honor a foreign leader. We have a proper space right now.

[David Pakman]

We have a. Yeah, it was 200 million bucks. Then it was going to be 250 million bucks. Now it's $300 million. What's another 50 million between friends, right? In donor money, of course. And then Trump starts to get irritated that he's even being asked about this, and then he attacks the reporter. That's a classic. I just want a quick follow up on that question. Your response to people who said that.

[Mark Carney]

You haven't been translated enough.

[Donald Trump]

I haven't been transparent that some of your feelings. I've shown, I've shown this to everybody that would listen. Third rate reporters didn't see it because they didn't look. You're a third rate reporter, always have been. So third rate reporters didn't look. But anybody that asked these, these pictures have been in newspapers.

[David Pakman]

And now this is a complete. It's like it's covered in this picture. It's all gold. Everything is gold inside. Remember, money can't buy class. And this is Trump's great. If Trump represents anything, it's that money cannot buy class.

[Donald Trump]

They've been all over the place and, you know, we're very proud of it. It's gotten great reviews. It's gotten really great reviews. I think we've been more transparent than anybody's ever.

[David Pakman]

And I don't know which, which reporter Trump is yelling, yelling at there, but it sort of sounds like our friend Jeff Mason from the Associated Press. I'm not totally sure because he's not on camera. Finally, Donald Trump struggling for vocabulary when talking about this whole bombing of boats thing and using military response to boats that he believes are bringing drugs. Trump talking about ocean drugs and sea drugs. This is how Trump speaks when he has no idea what he's talking about.

[Donald Trump]

And drug usage is way down. And drug usage coming from the sea, they call it ocean drugs. Little term that they use. The ocean drugs is very close to nonexistent right now. Now, I wouldn't want to be in one of those boats heading away. You know, they're driving happily to destroy the lives of people and they end up. That's the end of them. So the ocean drugs and the sea drugs. Drugs by sea, they call it.

[David Pakman]

Also they, they call it drugs by sea.

[Donald Trump]

That's almost down to nothing, as you can imagine. So they continue to come in by land at a little bit less because they see something is going to happen, happened. They don't like it. They see and they're right. Something very serious is going to happen. The equivalent of what's happening by sea. And we're going anyway.

[David Pakman]

Trump just meandering linguistically and mentally. No idea what's going on. The press corps is trying. Some of them are trying. I've got to give them credit. But you know when they say, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade. If the lemons are rotten or they're actually just rocks, you might not be able to make lemonade out of them. And that's where we find ourselves today with this administration. Every time you Google your name, you will probably find dozens of sites that expose your personal information. This can include phone number, home address, family details. It's just sitting there waiting to be scraped or abused. Incogni is a privacy service. They go after these sites on your behalf. They contact the data brokers, they, they demand your data be removed, which the brokers are legally required to do. Incogni will automatically remove your information from hundreds of the biggest and most notorious data broker sites. But you're not just limited to those. You can use Incogni's custom removal. If you find your info on a website outside of Incogni's default list, team at Incogni will work to get that information removed. This is how you protect yourself and your family from identity theft, financial scams, harassment, even AI powered profiling by ad companies. And Incogni's data removal process is the only one verified independently by Deloitte. This gives them a unique level of credibility. Try Incogni risk free and get 60% off. When you go to incogni.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN. The link is in the description. Consider this scenario. It's October of 2025, almost November. Government is shut down. Food stamp benefits are set not to go out in November. If the government remains shut down. We've got federal workers furloughed, not getting paid. Some aren't sure if they'll even have jobs when government reopens. And meanwhile, the president, Donald Trump, is using his the power of the presidency to demolish parts of the White House because he wants to do it to build a $300 million ballroom. He now says it's going to cost and is simultaneously suing his own DOJ for $230 million. What an embarrassment. And meanwhile, Republicans are mostly looking the other way. You ask Republicans, what about Trump suing his own DOJ for 230 million? They go, oh, I've been busy doing stuff. Even though government shut down, I don't really know about it. Oh, what about the ballroom? Oh, I don't really get involved in construction projects at the White House or whatever the case may be. And when you look closely at what is going on, it is not only another reminder that money can't buy class. The gold covered ballroom just looks so gaudy. But this is an insult to everybody that is suffering right now under the shutdown and struggling economically. And the demolishing of the White House, in a sense, is really a sad metaphor for this entire administration. You have the destruction of American business, you have the destruction of American alliances with our historical Western Democratic allies, you have the destruction of the American dream, you have the destruction of our health care programs, etcetera, etcetera, and meanwhile, you've got excavators knocking down pieces of the White House. Now, there are kind of, I guess I would call them contrasting and parallel scandals here at the micro level, the project is being done all wrong. First of all, it was going to be 200 million, then it's 250 million, now it's $300 million. The typical federal commission approvals for such a construction project have not been obtained. All of the right historical type of work hasn't been done. With regard to the project, Trump has been caught lying about the specifics, saying the project's not going to affect the existing structure. Obviously, as we see, stuff is being knocked down right here, we see that it is very much affecting the original structure. But then at the same time, tons of federal workers aren't even getting paid right now because of the shutdown. And meanwhile, the whole thing is supposedly funded by private donors. Now, when I say supposedly, it very well might be funded by donors and it might not be, and actually taxpayers are paying for it, but assume for a second that it is being funded by donors. It's basically legalized bribery. Trump, of course, knows who's contributing the money. And, and I'm guessing that if you contribute to Trump's ballroom, then you get invited to the ballroom and you get the opportunity for not only access to the president, but to be handed deals of different kinds and to be in the midst of, you know, the presidential milieu and the entire thing. Now, there's one other aspect to this. It has not been lost on many in our audience that when the ballroom was going to cost 250 million. Of course, now it's going to cost 300 million, but when it was going to cost 250 million. Trump is suing his own DOJ for 230 million, and he says that he would donate any money he gets. And Trump is building a 200 and what was then a $250 million ballroom which will be funded by donors. Now, I don't want to get all conspiratorial, but again, it's not really a conspiracy if it's all being done in the open. Trump says he will donate 230 million to charity and the ballroom will be paid for by donors. I'm so sorry to ask such a basic question, but is Trump going to be the donor? Is Trump planning to get 230 million in taxpayer money through his DOJ lawsuit and then donate it to a charity? The charity being the donation pool for the ballroom, funded by donors? Am I crazy to be thinking this way? Now, meanwhile, people around the country who can't afford an unexpected $400 expense without putting it on a credit card, they see a gilded $300 million ballroom going up. What do they say? What do they say? What do they think about the way that money is being spent? You see people who can't afford health care. You see federal workers furloughed who don't even know if they'll have a job. You see people who can't afford their kids education. And, and this is what is taking place in Washington, D.C. and it really undercuts this idea of Trump as every man Trump is. He really identifies with the average person. Does he? Because we've got tens of millions of people here at risk of losing health care over losing subsidies. And meanwhile, you've got Donald Trump building a $300 million gilded ballroom. Doesn't really seem like he understands to me, but the MAGA people just look away. They don't care. They're not getting involved. And meanwhile, we'll. We are still waiting for that health care plan, which I guess now exists, but it's a secret. It. All right, so MAGA Mike Johnson went on TV and he was asked by Kaitlan Collins what's going on with this health care plan. And MAGA Mike Johnson says, oh, we've got a plan, but we need to open the government first before we can tell anybody about it. They have a health care plan, but it's a secret, and someday they're going to tell us. There's probably, what, a couple of weeks left? Here's MAGA Mike Johnson himself. Explaining it.

[MAGA Mike Johnson]

But if you have ideas and you have plans, why not have that out there to talk about in the public so the people can hear that debate happening? I mean, you could have committees in session right now.

[Kaitlan Collins]

They will.

[MAGA Mike Johnson]

Kayla, talking about this, I think the.

[Kaitlan Collins]

Question is we need to get back to regular session so we can. No, no. We're not going to allow Chuck Schumer to play selfish political games and hold the American people hostage. We will not negotiate with legislative terrorists. We're not going to let them do that. We can't. We owe it to the people to get this government operating again. Republicans have now voted 12 or 13 times, counting the House and Senate, 13 times to open the government. And the Democrats have voted 13 times to close it down. It is wrong. There is.

[David Pakman]

Hey, Mike, just tell us what the health care plan is, ok? Shutdowns don't affect the House calendar. The only thing preventing Republicans from being in regular session is is Mike Johnson. Even Marjorie Taylor Greene has acknowledged and admitted Republicans can over the open the government. If we decide that that's what we want to do, give us the health care plan, tell us what it is. Trump said In August of 2020, we are two weeks away from the health care plan. And then during 2024, he said, well, I don't really have a plan per say. I have concepts of a plan. Tell us what the plan is. We are desperate. Kaitlan Collins asking him, if government reopened tonight, would Republicans have a plan to address the Obamacare subsidies? Here's what Mike Johnson said, all sorts of other stuff.

[MAGA Mike Johnson]

And we've gone back and forth on you and I have on, on, you know, what Democrats want here and whether or not that's health care for people who are in the country illegally, obviously. But I think the question is on the health care care plan to Marjorie Taylor Greene's point is, if the government reopened tonight, would Republicans have a plan to address the Obamacare subsidies?

[Kaitlan Collins]

Yes. Yes, we have proposals to. Yeah, we could have that ready immediately. Yes. Yeah.

[David Pakman]

This is like when I pick up my daughter at daycare and she says, hey, let's go to the playground. And I say, okay, listen, we can go to the playground, but when it's time to go, we've got to go without arguing, Right? And she goes, yeah. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And then when I say it's time to go, she goes, no, we just got here. I haven't done all the stuff I want to do. The truth about these health care plans is you can't create something out of Thin Air. There is a great book by the late Uwe Reinhart on health care. And if you imagine a triangle and the three axes of the triangle, the three angles of the triangle are cost, access and quality. Cost, access and quality. You basically need to pick a point on that triangle and if you pick a point that's closer to the cost and access, you're going to suffer when it comes to quality. If you pick a plan where, where you increase access and quality, well, the cost is going to go up. Now, of course, these are always, all else being equal ideas, but the point here is, to a degree, obviously, you want to eliminate waste, you want to eliminate bureaucracy. Those are things that can be done to reduce costs without affecting access and quality. But there are only so many ways that you can do this. You can look at what France does, you can look at what Singapore does, you can look at Canada, you at can look, you can look at Spain, you can look at all sorts of different countries. There are only so many things that you can do. And so it really is laughable that they've been saying over and over and over again, oh, we, we, we've got ideas and we've got proposals and we need two more weeks. What's the plan? There are only a certain number of things that you can do. Maga Mike Johnson has no plan, the Republicans have no plan. And, and when they come up with an idea, it's just, let's cut something, let's eliminate someone's access to health care or let's eliminate a subsidy which will get some people to say, oh, without the subsidy, I can't afford it, I guess now I'm going without health care. They act as though it is both true that health care for a country of 340 million people is complex, and at the same time it is true that there are only a certain number of levers. And if the point is we're going to give everybody access, ok, well, then you start there and you've got to figure everything else out. There's only a certain number of ways you can do it. Maga Mike Johnson's clueless, Trump's clueless, they're all clueless. But they're insisting that they have the answer. When we see their answer, it usually leads to tens of millions losing health care. That's not really going to work. A pending Supreme Court case could strip our Fourth Amendment rights and allow immigration agents to come into our homes for any reason. No probable cause needed. All while Republicans try to twist things so that you think this is all great for America. This should be the biggest story in the US Right now. But it's almost impossible to keep up with the millions of moves that Trump is making every single day. That's why Ground News exists. Ground News is an app and website that exposes the blind spots and spin before it takes control of our opinions. Ground News is the smarter, more reliable way to stay informed when MAGA is banking on us getting distracted. I'm partnering up with Ground News to give you 40% off the same vantage plan that I use, so you'll pay only five bucks a month for all of their premium features. Just go to Ground Dot News slash Pacman or use the code Pacman in the app. When you sign up, the link is in the description or scan the QR code. Well, Susan Collins is a senator from Maine. She's the so called moderate Republican in the Senate. She is perpetually disappointed and concerned about things that she sees going on, but never can quite find her, find it in her to go against what the Republican Party at large wants. She walked away from a constituent when a small business owning constituent wanted to talk to her about health care. This was not like a gotcha. This was a local business owner who said, I'm struggling with health care costs. What are you doing about it? And Susan Collins walked off. And in fact there's like a mini, it's not, not even really a documentary, it's just a two minute thing about this guy's trip to D.C. and you see Collins, his staff working very hard to keep her away from this guy. I'll play it for you, then we'll discuss.

[Andrew Volk]

Excuse me, Senator Collins, my name is Andrew, I'm a constituent of yours. I was hoping to talk to you about some of my concerns about the aca.

[David Pakman]

Hi there, how can I help you today?

[Andrew Volk]

My name is Andrew, I'm a constituent of Senator Collins and I was hoping to talk to her about the Affordable Care Act. My name is Andrew Volk and I'm a Mainer as well as a small business owner and, and a father of two. And I'm here today in Washington D.C. to ask Susan Collins why she is failing small business owners and why she refuses to extend the tax credits for the Affordable Care Act. Yeah, I mean my, my biggest concern is seeing those, those tax credits expire. And you know, I'd love to understand.

[David Pakman]

Where Senator Collins stands for those who are only listening right now. They sat him down with, I guess it's like some kind of legislative aide who's just listening and is like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew Volk]

On that. If she's. You know, I think that with the uncertainty in the economy, with the uncertainty, with the government shutdown and the tariffs, there's a chance that those tax credits expire. And for, in my opinion, not very good reason.

[David Pakman]

Yeah.

[Mark Carney]

Yeah.

[David Pakman]

So interesting.

[Andrew Cuomo]

They.

[Andrew Volk]

I haven't seen Senator Collins fighting the administration. I haven't seen her fighting for Mainers, and I haven't seen her fighting to bring down the costs that small businesses in Maine experience every day. So my boss has said that she's.

[Mark Carney]

Concerned about the impact.

[Andrew Volk]

Sure. She. Rightfully so.

[David Pakman]

She's also concerned about the fact. Very, very concerned, I might add, government isn't opened up.

[Andrew Volk]

Yeah.

[Mark Carney]

And she's expressed concern about the rising cost of health care as well.

[Donald Trump]

Sure.

[Andrew Volk]

So all those things working together, I mean, I understand the concern. I guess from my position, I don't see the action. I just got out of center of Susan Collins office trying to meet with her and was not able to. Clearly, her aide saw that I was waiting for her and did everything in their power to make sure that she was able to avoid me. Excuse me, Senator Collins, My name's Andrew. I'm a constituent of yours.

[Zoran Mamdani]

How are you?

[David Pakman]

How are you?

[Fox News Host (possibly Jesse Watters or another commentator)]

Great.

[David Pakman]

How are you?

[Donald Trump]

Good.

[Andrew Volk]

I was hoping to talk to you about some of my concerns about the aca. I'm a small business owner and a father of two.

[David Pakman]

Extending the tax credits.

[Andrew Volk]

Okay. Do you have just a moment to chat?

[David Pakman]

Thank you. I'm sorry, we gotta go vote.

[Andrew Volk]

Have a great day. Senator, I'm so sorry that I'm just trying to reach you today. She wouldn't make time to meet with a constituent like myself, but instead was getting lunch with President Trump and cozying up to the administration.

[David Pakman]

So, listen, I understand that it's not reasonable to think that any constituent can just show up in D.C. and meet with a senator. I get that. The bigger picture here is I am so sick of Susan Collins. You know, she. She has made a career out of being the moderate Republican, the thoughtful Republican, the empathetic Republican, the nice Republican, the one who's willing to think seriously about issues, the one who's reasonable. But the truth is that she's really not moderate. She's polite while doing all the same things that just about every single one of them do. This is the Susan Collins who, for all of her concern and whatever, voted for Trump's tax cuts that gutted the individual mandate of the Affordable Care act, for example, which is at the core of what makes it work and left millions of small business owners like this guy, worse off. And this is the same Susan Collins who always, I'm troubled. I'm troubled because I'm worried Republicans may be going too far. And then she votes with them anyway. So she's confronted by someone living with the consequences of her votes. This guy Andrew, he's trying to keep a small business afloat. He's paying thousands a month for health care. And she walks away and gets on the, gets on this Congress, the Senate subway there, which, by the way, when I was in D.C. last time we rode on that subway and saw Lindsey Graham walking alongside of it. A surreal moment. But that's not what we're talking about today. And so when she gets confronted, she doesn't really want to substantively deal with what is going on here. And this to me really is emblematic or representative of where the Republican Party is right now. They've got slogans, they've got, we've got to be friends with Trump, we've got to stay aligned with Trump. But there's really no substance there. And if you talk to them, they'll, you'll hear buzzwords floating around. Freedom, family values, supporting small business, entrepreneurship. And then you've got a specific guy, Andrew, in Maine. He says, I'm drowning because of what you voted for. You voted to gut the ACA subsidies. And it's a problem for me. She has no answer and she walks away. Collins vote to repeal parts of the Affordable Care act didn't happen in a vacuum. It increased costs for small businesses, it increased costs for self employed workers. And Maine has one of the highest rates of small business employment in the country on a per capita basis. These are the people that Collins says she's fighting for. And she votes in a way that hurts them and then doesn't want to talk to them. And she's been dodging these conversations for a long time. You might remember back in 2017 when the Republican Party was again trying to dismantle Obamacare, you might be like, well, didn't they do that 70 times? Yes, but what I mean is, in 2017, when Trump was president, one of the biggest spectacular failures of Trump's first term was that in his desperation to undo anything with Obama's name on it, they came up with this alternative health care plan. That plan was scored by a number of different budget agencies and they found that 20 to 30 million people would lose, lose health coverage. That's why it didn't go anywhere. It ended up dying because it would have been terrible. She said, I'm a protector of coverage for people and then made a whole. I don't even know the number of votes in a row to dismantle elements of it. So as with most things, Republicans say they love entrepreneurs and small business owners, but now they need something and then they vote in a way that hurts them. You can't really call yourself pro business when your policies make it harder for business owners to afford health care for themselves or for their employees. And that's the Republican playbook that unfortunately is very common right now. They will create a crisis, say there's no crisis, and then when they get confronted, they flee. People can't afford insulin. I'm going to run away. I've got to get on the subway. It's not just Susan Collins. It just so happens where we're focusing on Susan Collins right now because a constituent of hers went looking for her. You could swap out Susan Collins for just about any so called mainstream Republican and get the same clip. The branding would change. It might be a man instead of a woman. It might be someone from Nebraska instead of Maine, but the behavior is exactly the same. They don't really care. They just want to stay close to Trump, keep their elected post, and that's all that really matters. Fox News host Jesse Watters loved Trump's feces bomb. What? Yes. He liked Trump's massive A dump on Harry Sisson. What am I talking about? Let me explain. After the no Kings protest, Donald Trump posted to his Truth Social an AI generated video in which he is the pilot of a fighter jet dumping feces on no Kings protesters, including my friend Harry Sisson, who, by the way, I hung out with this week. And he was a little shaken up by the entire thing, I must say. Here is Fox News host Jesse Watters proudly saying Trump is a meme lord dropping feces on everyone. Remember that to these cult members, there is nothing Trump can do that will get them to say, this is too much, this is too much.

[Andrew Volk]

And this guy Jeff Daniels, okay, Trump's a meme lord.

[David Pakman]

He's strafing feces over everybody.

[Andrew Volk]

And Democrats are like, wasn't like a.

[David Pakman]

Day ago they were like, we need to up our social media game.

[Kaitlan Collins]

We need.

[David Pakman]

And they were like, Gavin's the man. He's crushing it on social media. And this guy, Jeff Daniels, can you, can you imagine? Trump posts an unhinged, disgusting clip on Truth Social. Waters reaction isn't, this is the president of the United States behaving like a toddler. It's what a legend. It's memetic. He's A memetic legend. This is where we are right now. Fox hosts cheering the president's latest feces meme like it's a masterstroke of political communication. Imagine if Obama, Biden, anybody, just Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris. Imagine if any of them did something remotely like this, a weird bathroom joke, crude meme. Republicans would be saying impeach. Or if it's a candidate and the campaign, they'd be screaming about dignity and tone and it's a disgrace to the presidency. But when Trump as president does it, it's art. It's memetic warfare. It's owning the libs. He's so of well crafted psychological warfare. It's kind of perfect. A network that is full of crap. Fox News praising a president for dumping it on Harry Sisson. Now I just as I was preparing for this segment, I came across a video. It is not all sucking up to Trump. Every once in a while a little bit of truth gets through. One example being here's a Fox commentator who says, my mom owns a small business. She imports stuff from Canada. It's not good. Her costs have gone up and for now she's trying to eat most of it. Just a little a contrast to Jesse Waters. The real story of what's going on, gone out there, going on out there in the real world.

[Fox News Host (possibly Jesse Watters or another commentator)]

Can I just go back to one thing on the small business side? Because my mom is in a small business, she imports from Canada, which talked about this many times. It's uncomfortable, it's not been pleasant. Her pricing has gone up regardless of what's been instituted or not. The anticipation of it has the suppliers bringing the prices up. She is not passing it on to consumers. She is eating it. She's managed so far. It's not, it doesn't feel good. But I think most small businesses, we've talked about people who've lost jobs or businesses that have had to fold. I think most small businesses will find a way to because they're scrappy and you know, they believe in my mom believes in the president and she believes that somehow all of this will come together and this period of discomfort will eventually ease.

[David Pakman]

And I love the use of the somehow in there she goes. My mom, despite all of these things being terrible, which I'm glad is being acknowledged here, ok. Despite all of these things being terrible, my mom supports the president and believes that somehow, somehow doing a lot of heavy lifting, somehow it's all going to get figured out. We're getting part of the real story. We're actually getting all of the real story, small business owners are getting crushed and the cultists don't care and they're still going to support Donald Trump. Trump's out there posting crap memes and small business owners, including family members of this Fox host, are getting crushed. They're eating the cost. And instead of focusing on that, which is what Jesse Watters should be talking about, he's, you know, analyzing the artistic genius of a man sharing poop jokes on the Internet. It's really the emblem of Trump era conservatism. The more humiliating it is, the more they celebrate it. And what they should be talking about, which is this, they don't. Final note, you can see here how hard it is to disabuse people of their cult beliefs. The host's mom is getting crushed, but she supports the president and believes that somehow, somehow he's going to do what's going to be good for the small business owners. He didn't do it in his first term. Why would you expect him to do it this time? Doesn't make any sense. We have a phenomenal bonus show for you. Oh, the bonus show where you want to make money.

[Donald Trump]

Everybody else that makes money to fund themselves is bad.

[David Pakman]

If you're not currently getting the bonus show, you really should go to join pacman.com and sign up. We will talk about the main Senate race, which has become the subject of much controversy. We will tell you about Elon Musk's new Nashville tunnel project. And the Pentagon has announced a new press corps. I don't think you will be hugely surprised to learn who is in it. All of those stories and more on today's bonus show, sign up@join pacman.com and also make sure you're getting my Free Daily Newsletter, substack.david pakman.com it is the only platform on which we own our data, meaning if they shut us down, the only folks I'll be able to get a hold of to tell you what's going on are those on my Substack newsletter. One more time, it's substack.david pakman.com See you on the bonus show. See you back here tomorrow.