The David Pakman Show — November 13, 2025 Episode Summary

Episode Title: Epstein files explode over Trump as Republicans rebel
Host: David Pakman
Notable Guest: Dr. Zachary Rubin
Date: November 13, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the political firestorm ignited by newly released Jeffrey Epstein files that directly implicate former President Donald Trump, leading to an unprecedented rebellion among over 100 Congressional Republicans. David Pakman analyzes the substance of the allegations, Republicans' public break with Trump, and the subsequent crisis within the White House. Later in the episode, Dr. Zachary Rubin joins for a deep dive into the politicization of health, public health crises, and the breakdown of healthcare policy under the current administration.

1. Epstein Files Rock Trump and the GOP

Massive Republican Defection

• The release of new documents by House Democrats allege that Trump knew about underage girls trafficked by Epstein, had a close ongoing relationship with Epstein beyond what he claimed, and is described by Epstein as having "early dementia” ([00:00]-[07:12]).
• Over 100 Republicans are expected to vote with Democrats to declassify all Epstein-related government files. This rebellion is the largest Trump has faced from his own party since taking office ([00:00]-[07:12]).

Key Political Context

• The files' release comes after a brutal week for Trump: election defeats, Supreme Court skepticism of his tariffs, and a recently ended 40+ day government shutdown.
• "[This is] the biggest rebellion from his own party since taking office. It is all about Jeffrey Epstein now. The timing is a disaster for Trump." — David Pakman ([01:20])
• Speaker Mike Johnson announces a vote next week with 218 signatures, including newly sworn-in Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva.

Why Republicans Are Rebelling

• Strategic calculation to not appear complicit in covering up sexual abuse.
• "This vote is going to be on your record for longer than Trump is going to be president…What are you going to do in 2028 and 2030?" — Rep. Thomas Massie ([06:32])
• Trump's grip on the GOP is slipping as prominent members like Boebert, Massie, Bacon, and Mace support full transparency.

The GOP's Internal Turmoil

• Pressure campaigns by the White House include failed attempts to sway Lauren Boebert to retract her support ([11:19]).
• "They're behaving as if this is a five-alarm fire—because it is now." — Pakman ([12:47])
• White House aides convene an emergency crisis meeting, with participation from DOJ, FBI, and backbench Republicans.

2. Substance and Reaction: The Epstein Emails

What the Emails Reveal ([20:00]-[25:30])

• Trump is mentioned repeatedly by Epstein in 20,000 Justice Department emails (less than 1% released).
• "Would you like photos of Donald and girls in bikinis in my kitchen?" — Epstein email to Thomas Landon ([21:11])
• Allegations of Trump spending his first Thanksgiving after being elected with Epstein (2017).
• Epstein claims: “I gave [my girlfriend] to Donald,” and refers to Trump as “the worst” and possessing “no decent cell in his body.”
• Serious questions arise about Trump’s honesty and claimed timeline of cutting ties with Epstein.

Memorable Exchange: White House Avoids Direct Denial

• Reporter Weijia Jiang: "Did the President ever spend hours at Jeffrey Epstein's house with a victim?"
  Caroline Levitt: [Does not directly answer the question, deflects.]
  "What's notably missing…was a no." — Pakman ([19:41])

3. Trump, The White House, and Control of the Narrative

Trump's Public Response

• Trump on Truth Social:

  “Only a very bad or stupid Republican would fall into [the Epstein file] trap.” ([16:10])

• Attempts to reframe the crisis as a Democratic deflection from the shutdown.

White House Panic and Defensive Tactics

• Emergency meetings with House members, efforts to silence Boebert, Mace, and other dissenters.
• "[The White House is] drafting statements, planning damage control for a scenario where the files drop." ([14:21])
• Caroline Levitt, White House Press Secretary, faces tough questions and provides evasive responses.

4. Broader Political & Economic Fallout

Fallout in Congress

• House may soon pass a measure to release all classified Epstein files pending Senate and Trump’s signature.
• "Only 40% of Republicans approve of how Trump has handled the Epstein files" vs. 90% overall approval ([07:40]).

Economic Data Suppression

• The White House claims Democrats damaged the federal statistical system to explain missing jobs and inflation reports.
• Levitt: “October CPI and jobs reports [are] likely never being released.” ([58:15])
• Pakman ridicules this as a reach and another example of lack of transparency.

5. Health Policy Deep-Dive with Dr. Zachary Rubin ([34:36]-[56:22])

Major Discussion Points

• Sabotage of the Affordable Care Act: Trump’s first term actions (removal of penalty, cost-sharing reductions, admin funding cuts) destabilized coverage and drove up premiums significantly.
  "He already set it up for failure. He sabotaged it." — Dr. Rubin ([36:05])
• Inefficacy of Trump’s Health Plan: Giving individuals money to buy plans strips collective bargaining power and would worsen outcomes.
  • Analogy: It’s like sending individuals to Costco and telling them to negotiate prices themselves.
• Public Health Messaging Crisis:
  • Politicization has created confusion, with anti-scientific messaging proliferating under the “MAHA” (Make America Healthy Again) banner.
  • Dr. Rubin: “The messaging is so mixed and confusing…it creates more distrust in the federal government.” ([51:00])
• Research & Brain Drain:
  • Significant loss of talent at NIH due to politicized leadership and funding cuts is “devastating,” with potentially generational consequences.
• Single-Payer System Debate:
  • Dr. Rubin prefers a universal, centralized system to cut administrative bloat but warns of risks like provider shortages and increased wait times.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• ‘Why Trump's ACA ideas fail’:

  “If you’re an individual, you go out and compete with a private multi-billion dollar health insurance industry...they’re going to laugh in your face.” — Dr. Rubin ([38:15])

• On the public health system collapse:

  “The CDC was once an institution considered the pinnacle of public health around the world...they have now dismantled the integrity and funding." — Dr. Rubin ([51:18])

6. White House Press Briefing Trainwrecks

Failed Defense and Increased Transparency Demands

• Levitt’s protestations that “we’ve done more transparency than anyone” on Epstein files are widely ridiculed, as the administration continues to withhold the full release ([59:24]).
• When pressed about pressure on Boebert, Levitt claims meetings reflect “transparency,” not strong-arming. Pakman mocks: “That's not convincing anybody.” ([60:36])
• Levitt’s non-answers on Trump’s mysterious MRI add to speculation about the president's health ([65:29]).

7. Additional Key Segments

Economic Spin

• Trump falsely claims costs and gas prices are down and attributes economic damage to Democrats.

Thanksgiving Price Propaganda

• Trump thanks Walmart for “study” showing a cheaper Thanksgiving, which Pakman debunks as misleading manipulation ([31:38]).

Unaddressed SNAP Benefits Contradiction

• Despite Levitt's statement about the necessity of reopening government for SNAP benefits, the White House previously tried to block them in court ([63:50]).

8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If they believed the Epstein files are inconsequential to Trump…they would not be doing this. They're behaving as if this is a five-alarm fire." — Pakman ([12:47])
• "He is the dog that hasn't been barked…one of the victims spent hours at Epstein's house with Trump." — Epstein (email, as read by Pakman, [05:48])
• “Did Trump spend hours at Epstein’s house with a victim?” — Weijia Jiang
  “[No direct answer]” — Caroline Levitt ([18:40]-[19:41])
• “What was notably missing from the answer…was a no.” — Pakman ([19:41])
• “Having discussions with members…that is, that’s a defining factor of transparency.” — Caroline Levitt ([60:42])

9. Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------------------|---------------| | Major Epstein files story, GOP rebellion | 00:00–11:19 | | House crisis meeting, White House panic | 09:44–12:47 | | Trump’s Truth Social meltdown | 16:10–17:50 | | Caroline Levitt’s dodges in press briefing | 18:18–19:41 | | Newly revealed Epstein emails | 20:00–25:30 | | Trump dodges Epstein questions, press event | 26:31–27:22 | | Dr. Zach Rubin interview | 34:36–56:22 | | Economic data/White House transparency riffs | 58:15–65:00 | | MRI questions, SNAP court fight | 65:29–66:15 |

Conclusion

This episode marks a pivotal moment in the Trump presidency, with the Epstein files shattering GOP unity and triggering a White House crisis. The administration’s response—public deflections, private arm-twisting, and persistent avoidance of questions—underscores their fear of the scandal’s potential magnitude. The discussion with Dr. Rubin adds context about the broader breakdown of governmental competence and transparency, especially in health policy.

For listeners or readers:
If you want to understand not just the details of the Epstein-Trump scandal but also the fractures inside today’s GOP and the state of public health policy under political duress, this episode provides an indispensable, sharply analytical overview.