11/18/25: Epstein files panic as Trump's worst fear hits

Summary

The David Pakman Show

Episode: Epstein Files Panic as Trump's Worst Fear Hits

Date: November 18, 2025
Host: David Pakman
Description: David Pakman dissects the explosive developments surrounding the Epstein Files, bipartisan political turmoil, Trump's personal and political meltdown, and the unraveling of loyalty within MAGA ranks. The show features commentary, analysis, survivor statements, and an in-depth interview on the evolving nature of the political right.

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Episode Overview

David Pakman opens with the assertion that the day’s events are “unbelievable,” encapsulating a moment of crisis in U.S. politics. The episode covers:

• An extraordinary bipartisan press conference with Epstein survivors and traditionally opposed politicians.
• Accusations that the FBI is shielding Trump by redacting his name from the Epstein files.
• Trump’s increasingly erratic behavior—both online and in public appearances.
• MAGA infighting, including violent threats against Marjorie Taylor Greene.
• The sexism and authoritarian tendencies displayed by Trump, culminating with his “quiet, Piggy” insult toward a female reporter.
• An insightful interview with political theorist Laura Field about the evolution and fracture of the American right.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bipartisan Epstein Files Transparency Push

[00:00–06:00]

• For the first time, Marjorie Taylor Greene (estranged from Trump), Thomas Massie, and Ro Khanna hold a joint press conference with Epstein survivors—an event snubbed by Fox News.

• The House’s “Epstein Files Transparency Act” would force release of files with minimal redactions, prioritizing victim advocacy over political interests.

• Marjorie Taylor Greene proclaims, “Hell has froze over,” highlighting the surreal political alliance.

  • Quote: “It's so cold, I thought hell froze over.” — Marjorie Taylor Greene ([03:19])
  • Greene makes clear her break with Trump is personal, not ideological: “I was called a traitor by a man that I fought for…six years for. …He called me a traitor for standing with these women.” ([03:58])

• Ro Khanna frames the day as a beginning of justice for overlooked victims.

  • Quote: “Today is the first day, real reckoning for the Epstein class. We're here to stand with forgotten and abandoned Americans…” — Ro Khanna ([05:06])

2. Epstein Survivors Speak Out, Rebuke Trump

[06:03–09:56]

• Epstein survivors deliver emotional statements demanding transparency and denouncing Trump’s politicization of their suffering.
  • Quote: “I voted for you. But your behavior on this issue has been a national embarrassment.” — Epstein Survivor, addressing Trump ([07:01])
  • Another survivor directly addresses Trump’s shifting stance and skepticism about real accountability:
    • Quote: “I am traumatized. I am not stupid… You have put us through so much stress…” ([08:27])
• Pakman underscores that the victims’ voices have been missing and are now central, highlighting their call for nonpartisan justice.

3. Trump, the FBI, and Epstein Files Redaction Allegations

[09:56–13:59]

• New reporting suggests the FBI is redacting Trump’s name from Epstein-related files, with justification that he was a "private citizen" in 2006.
  • Pakman notes the illogical extension of privacy exemptions to Trump and hints at a “pattern” of government interference when evidence implicates Trump.
• Hidden camera video (from a dubious source, James O’Keefe) appears to support claims that high-profile Republicans are protected in file redactions, but now Bloomberg corroborates core details.
  • Quote: “They'll redact every Republican or conservative person in those files, leave all the liberal Democratic people…” — Joseph Schmidt, DOJ Deputy Chief, undercover video ([13:49])

4. Trump’s Erratic Public Appearances and “Meltdown”

[19:51–29:59]

• Trump’s voice is “a mess” at public events—he claims it’s from yelling at people about trade.
  • Quote: “I was shouting at people because they were stupid about something having to do with trade… I blew my stack at these people.” — Donald Trump ([20:35])
• He displays physical signs of potential weakness (covering a bruised hand), ignores serious reporter questions, and indulges in odd ramblings during speeches.
• Escalates authoritarian rhetoric, threatening to move global events (e.g., FIFA World Cup) from “liberal/communist” cities and refusing to rule out military action in Venezuela.
  • Quote: “If we think there's a problem in Seattle … we will move the event to someplace where it's going to be appreciated and safe.” — Donald Trump ([21:31])
  • Quote: “I don't rule out anything. We just have to take care of Venezuela.” ([23:26])
• Trump’s speech degenerates into incoherence, with stories about “skedaddle,” bombs, unlimited dishwasher water, and the size of his own hands.
• Pakman suggests Trump appears distracted, perhaps fearing what the Epstein files might reveal.

5. MAGA Civil War: Marjorie Taylor Greene Targeted by Her Own Base

[31:25–39:30]

• Greene receives death threats after Trump labels her a “traitor” online for supporting Epstein file transparency.
  • Quote from Trump’s post: “Lightweight congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Brown. Green grass turns brown when it begins to rot. Betrayed the entire Republican Party…” ([32:00])
• Pakman contextualizes: MAGA swiftly turns on its own when loyalty wavers. Greene, once a key MAGA agitator, now faces the climate she helped foster; Pakman denounces violence against anyone, including Greene.

6. Long-form Interview: The Evolution of MAGA and the New Right

[40:18–56:18]
With Laura Field, author of "Furious Minds: The Making of the New MAGA Right"

• Breakdown of the “fusionist” GOP coalition of the past (business conservatives, religious right, libertarians) and how Trumpism has disrupted traditional alignments.
• The New Right combines economic nationalism and social conservatism, with a shift in influence toward more extreme elements and intellectual movements (Claremont Institute, National Conservatives, post-liberal Catholics).
  • Quote: “The Gipper’s stool with Reagan … has really just been completely, well, not completely, but mostly transformed.” — Laura Field ([41:13])
  • Quote: “Now there are people saying 30 to 40% of… Capitol Hill staffers are groipers, the very far right.” — Laura Field ([46:30])
• Discussion of divides within the right (e.g., on immigration, influenced by figures like Elon Musk), the movement's skillful manipulation of culture-war anxieties, and the loyalty-first logic driving internal fractures.
  • Field assesses JD Vance’s potential as Trump’s successor, predicting he would pivot to a Thiel-style technocratic agenda but remain enmeshed in the New Right’s radical project, including elements of Catholic social order.
  • Quote: “They are quite explicit that they would like to use the state to reorder American society towards the common good and the highest good, which is Catholic salvation in their view.” — Laura Field ([55:14])

7. Further Trump Misogyny: ‘Quiet Piggy’ on Air Force One

[56:21–60:19]

• Trump calls a female Bloomberg reporter “Quiet, Piggy” when challenged about Epstein file transparency.
  • Pakman analyzes this as part of Trump’s longstanding misogynistic playbook; plays archival footage of Alicia Machado attesting to similar past behavior.
  • Quote: “Quiet Piggy.” — Donald Trump ([59:17])
  • Quote: “[He called me] Miss Piggy, Miss Housekeeping, Miss Eating Machine... All to your face. Yes, all the time. That was really normal for him.” — Alicia Machado on Trump ([59:53])
• Pakman: Trump’s supporters are largely unbothered, reinforcing that “Trump has broken the machinery of shame,” eroding accountability for public misconduct.

8. Tariff and Economic Spin

[64:03–68:08]

• Debate on tariffs: Pakman notes Trump reverses some tariffs but his administration denies they were ever a problem—an example of “Schrodinger’s tariffs.”
  • Kevin Hassett, Trump advisor, engages in “verbal jujitsu,” rebranding negative statistics as positives (e.g., calling likely labor market weakness “a quiet time”).
  • Quote: “Purchasing power has gone up by about twelve hundred dollars this year.” — Kevin Hassett ([67:55])
• Pakman repeatedly exposes these rhetorical tricks for what they are.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Bipartisan Surreality:
  “It's so cold, I thought hell froze over.” — Marjorie Taylor Greene ([03:19])
• Epstein Survivor to Trump:
  “It is not about you, President Trump. …I voted for you. But your behavior on this issue has been a national embarrassment.” ([07:01])
• Pakman on Loyalty and MAGA Violence:
  “This is what happens inside of authoritarian movements. You run on loyalty and not on ideology. And the moment you stop serving the dear leader’s needs, the mob will turn on you.” ([32:40])
• Laura Field on the New Right:
  “There are these people saying 30 to 40% of the people in Washington are groypers, the very far right… You can see this sort of massive cultural transformation in the GOP.” ([46:30])
• Pakman on Trump and Accountability:
  “Trump has broken the machinery of shame, rendering traditional norms and consequences obsolete.” ([60:15])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00] Opening & Episode Theme
• [03:19] Marjorie Taylor Greene: “Hell has froze over”
• [07:01] Epstein Survivor’s Address to Trump
• [09:56] FBI accused of redacting Trump’s name; hidden camera video
• [19:51] Trump’s frail voice, “blew his stack” moment
• [21:31] Threats to move FIFA due to “communist” mayors
• [23:26] Trump refuses to rule out troops in Venezuela
• [29:10] Trump on unlimited dishwasher water; hand size
• [31:25] Death threats against Marjorie Taylor Greene
• [40:18] Laura Field interview: MAGA New Right deep dive
• [56:21] Trump calls reporter “Quiet, Piggy”
• [64:03] Tariff spin: Schrodinger’s tariffs
• [67:55] “Purchasing power” narrative shift

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Summary Conclusion

This episode vividly captures the unraveling of Trump-era politics, with the Epstein files at the center of a political, moral, and cultural ordeal threatening the reputations—and possibly the safety—of America’s highest office holders. Pakman traces the bipartisan desperation for transparency, the trickle-down effects of Trump’s authoritarian and misogynistic tactics, and the New Right’s radical intellectual underpinnings. As Pakman quips, it’s a “snapshot of a presidency in freefall, cracking from the inside, lashing out on the outside.” The episode is a must-listen for those seeking insight into MAGA’s civil war, the legacy of Trumpism, and the real stakes behind the headlines in 2025.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Today's show is, quite frankly, unbelievable. We have a MAGA Civil war. Epstein survivors publicly rebuking Trump, the FBI accused of blacking out Trump's name from the files, and the President of the United States calling a female reporter piggy on Air Force One. We're going to start with something I don't know that we ever thought we would see. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie standing together at a press conference with Epstein victims while Fox News refuses to air it and Trump melts down online. We then will get to a bombshell. New reporting that the FBI is blacking Trump's name out from the Epstein files while Trump says, oh, yeah, release the files. And as all of this breaks, Trump loses it. His voice is shredded. He says he blew his stack, whatever that means. And as if that wasn't enough, magazine are now sending death threats to Marjorie Taylor Greene after she was labeled a traitor by Trump. This episode is a snapshot of a presidency in freefall. It's cracking from the inside. It's lashing out on the outside. We are going to get into all of it. I also want to tell you we have now raised over $14,000 for Feeding America this month. We are doing this through Thanksgiving. Every new membership and gift, memberships, first payment on my website or substack is donated in full. So far, 333 new or gifted memberships have been purchased, leading to $14,085 to be donated. Responsible for 140,000 meals through feeding America. So help us keep pushing forward. We've got a show today. Has hell frozen over? Epstein victims are doing what Trump fears the most. And Trump gets the worst possible news. Just hours ago, sort of a rare display of bipartisan unity and indicative of an open rift within the Republican Party erupted on Capitol Hill. Republican Congressman Thomas Massie, Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna, and Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, now estranged from Trump, held a press conference alongside several victims of Jeffrey Epstein's CNN and Ms. Now I know broadcast it. Fox News did not. This is the start of the day where the House will presumably vote on the Epstein Files Transparency act, which would compel the DOJ to release the files and it would prohibit redactions based on embarrassment, reputational harm or political sensitivity. Marjorie Taylor Greene speaking and saying. It's so cold, I thought hell froze over. Indicative of her joining a Democrat and a more moderate Republican in this effort.

[Laura Field]

Thank you, Thomas. Thank you, Ro. I woke up this morning and I turned to my weather app to check the temperature and it was 32 degrees. And my first thought was, hell has froze over.

[David Pakman]

Hell has froze over. Some of us would say has frozen over. Now, remember, Marjorie Taylor Greene is not suddenly a progressive to some degree. She's upset with Trump because she's. To Trump's right. This is primarily a personal grievance. And she explains. And then we're going to get to the important stuff with the victims. Marjorie Taylor Greene explains she got called a traitor despite fighting for Trump's policies for six years.

[Laura Field]

I was called a traitor by a man that I fought for five. No, actually six. Six years for. And I gave him my loyalty for free. I won my first election without his endorsement, beating eight men in a primary, and I've never owed him anything, but I fought for him for the policies and for America first. And he called me a traitor for standing with these women and refusing to take my name off the discharge petition. Let me tell you what a traitor is. A traitor is a. Is an American that serves foreign countries and themselves. A patriot is an American that serves the United States of America and Americans like the women standing behind me.

[David Pakman]

So she's making it clear she is there for the victims. And listen, I. I still disagree with Marjorie Taylor Greene on most things, but at least she's standing with the victims. Congressman Ro Khanna, a Democrat, says the reckoning begins today.

[Donald Trump]

Today is the first day, real reckoning for the Epstein class. We're here to stand with forgotten and abandoned Americans against an Epstein class that. That had no regard for the rules.

[David Pakman]

And Ro Khanna going on to say, not only should the Senate vote to release the Epstein files, they should do it with no amendments, with no loopholes, just release the full files. Right thing for survivors.

[Donald Trump]

We're going to get a vote today. I expect an overwhelming vote in the.

[David Pakman]

House of Representatives, and I don't want.

[Donald Trump]

The DC Swamp playing any games. They need to pass this in the Senate and they should not amend it. President Trump has said he would sign the Epstein Transparency Act.

[David Pakman]

It's going to get overwhelming support in the House.

[Donald Trump]

It should go straight to the Senate, and it should be signed. No amendments, no adding loopholes.

[David Pakman]

Now, of course, there usually are games, amendments and loopholes in the Senate, but we will see. Now, crucially, the press conference included this victims of Jeffrey Epstein's abuse. One of the things I've been saying from the beginning is that there's a lot of talk about perpetrators, there's a lot of talk about Jeffrey Epstein. Of course, finding out what did Trump do or not do, all of that is of massive importance. But in the sort of gamesmanship between those in the political class and prosecutors and lawyers and defenders. What about the victims whose voices have been largely missing from the corporate media narratives? Now we have some advocacy efforts and we are hearing from some of those victims, survivors, some would call themselves. Here is one individual saying that, listen, I voted for Trump. I voted for Trump. But we need to, we need the transparency. At the end of the day, it.

[Epstein Survivor]

Is also not a hoax. We are here as American survivors of a man who use his wealth and power to hurt young girls and women. The world should see the files to know who Jeffrey Epstein was and how the system catered to him and failed us emotionally. This process has been distressing. First the administration said it would release everything and applauded President Trump for that. Then it fought to release nothing. Now that, that, that. Now that, that checks and balances of our dumb democr democracy have worked and the bill is getting passed to release the files. We are hearing the administration say they intend to investigate various Democrat Democrats who were friends with Epstein. I beg you, President Trump, please stop making this political. It is not about you, President Trump. You are our president. Please start acting like it. Show some class, show some real leadership. Show that you actually care about the people other than yourself. I voted for you. But your behavior on this issue has been an national embarrassment.

[David Pakman]

Listen, Trump doesn't care about the victims. Trump cares about skating by. He doesn't want accountability. He doesn't want to have to take responsibility. He doesn't want to be exposed or dragged down by this. Another survivor sending a message directly to.

[Epstein Survivor]

Donald Trump and to the President of the United States of America who is not here today. I want to send a clear message to you. While I do understand that your position has changed on the Epstein files and I'm grateful that you have pledged to sign this bill, I can't help to be skeptical of what the agenda is. So with that being said, I want to relay this message to you. I am traumatized. I am not stupid. I am traumatized. I am not stupid.

[David Pakman]

Stupid.

[Epstein Survivor]

You have put us through so much stress. The lockdowns, the halt of these, of. Of these procedures that were supposed to have happened 50 days ago. The Adelita Grahalva who waited to get sworn in and then get upset when your own party goes against you because what is being done is wrong. It's not right for your own self serving purposes. This is America. This is land of the free. Land of the free. In 1863 we have a woman on top of the Capitol building. Represent Freedom. I do not feel free today. I don't know if the women behind me feel free today. So I am begging every member of Congress, every representative to step up and choose the chaos. Choose the survivors, choose the children. Protect the children. All children. You protect all of us equally.

[David Pakman]

The survivors have had to fight for years just to be heard, with one survivor noting that she's been seeking justice dating all the way back to 1996. So we'll see what the outcome of this bill is in the House. If it passes, we'll see what the Senate does with it. We do expect at this point, if it gets to Trump, he will sign it. But why? Why the change of heart? That is what we are going to talk about next. Yesterday I said to you I'm not falling for Donald Trump's I now want full transparency on the Epstein files. I said I believe him, but it's only because he realized it's going to pass. Republicans are going to vote in the House almost certainly to release the files. And Trump can't be seen as trying to block that when Republicans have decided they're going to try to pass it. However, I also said, although speculatively, I could imagine how maybe Trump is doing this because he's made some behind the scenes deal for his name to be removed or whatever. We don't have evidence of that, or at least we didn't yesterday, but now it's starting to look like that might indeed be what is going on. We now have reporting that the FBI is, is blacking out Trump's name from the Epstein files. As in the FOIA team flagged it, applied the privacy exemption, scrubbed it before the releases even made it anywhere. Bloomberg has the sources. And when you put this next to Donald Trump's wild posting sprees on Truth Social and his disjointed and disoriented speeches yesterday, it starts to look a lot less like, wow, Trump is bravely demanding the truth. And it starts to look more like Trump has figured out a way to get government to bend over backwards to protect the guy who kept screaming that he's really the victim here, rather than all of the victims of Jeffrey Epstein. So here's the picture that's coming together now. The FBI's FOIA team allegedly has redacted Trump's name from the files. Not because he was president. They say it's because in 2006 he was a private citizen. So suddenly the most powerful man in the world gets the privacy protection of just being a random guy. Back in 2006, give me a break. Number two, the DOJ and FBI leadership then say, we're done. No further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted. Remember that? And we said, this doesn't make any sense. And then Trump's base gets angry and goes, this is sounding like a cover up. Even Joe Rogan said they're gaslighting on this Epstein stuff. When you've lost Rogan on a Trump related conspiracy, you know that it's getting bad. And then now it comes full circle where Trump says, let's release the files. We do want transparency. And of course, if your name was blacked out by the FBI before the files even went upstairs, now all of a sudden you can say you're for transparency because you've got the edits already. And then we have this video which I've played for you before. This is a DOJ deputy chief on hidden camera saying, of course they're going to redact Trump's name and probably other Republicans as well. Now, do I trust this guy specifically? Well, maybe not. But this is hidden camera video where he is acknowledging, of course this is what they're going to do. And it is now comporting and coinciding with Bloomberg reporting. Those files do exist.

[Kevin Hassett]

Yeah, thousands of thousands of age group 5.

[David Pakman]

By the way, this is Joseph Schmidt, acting Deputy Chief, Office of Enforcement Operations, doj.

[Kevin Hassett]

They'll redact every Republican or conservative person in those files, leave all the liberal Democratic people in those Vs.

[Laura Field]

I think they visited that Maxwell person.

[David Pakman]

Yeah.

[Laura Field]

And also involved, got transferred to a.

[Kevin Hassett]

Minimum security prison too recently, which is against BOP policy because she's, she's a convicted sex offender offering or something to.

[David Pakman]

Keep it on shift. That was the acting. All right, now you could say this came from James o'. Keefe. I don't trust James o'. Keefe. I don't necessarily trust this schnit guy. Healthy skepticism makes sense, especially when we're dealing with James o'. Keefe. But we now have Bloomberg. First of all, it comports with logic and common sense of what Trump would do, and it now is being corroborated by Bloomberg reporting. You've got internal conflict, political pressure, Bondi pretending that her big file release wasn't just recycled material from the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. And at some point it's no longer tinfoil hat and it's like, obviously they're doing something here. Now, you don't have to believe, nor am I claiming there is a grand conspiracy. I'm not saying there's a secret edited version of the files that Trump Personally approved. It's just a pattern. When the Epstein documents get close to touching Trump, the government finds a way to slam the brakes. And they say, we need privacy protections or Trump was a private citizen in 2016. 6. Or he was, he was president or. So now I'm comfortable saying we have multiple sources suggesting the Epstein files are being scrubbed clean for Trump as the political pressure has gotten too much. Republicans are saying they're going to vote today to release the files, and Trump had to say, yeah, release them. And he's planning on being protected in some other way. If Trump actually wanted Trump transparency, by the way, he could sign a privacy waiver today and tell the FBI, release every single mention of my name. He could do that, but he won't. Because for all of the, you know, yelling about full transparency and full disclosure, the only disclosure that's happening right now is a black Sharpie over Donald Trump's name. So I said yesterday, might they do this? I would need to wait before I suggest it. And in comes Bloomberg with corroborating evidence. What do you think? Make sure to like this video and share it. If you're not subscribed to my YouTube channel, hit that subscribe button. We're pushing to 3.5 million subscribers, but let me know what you think. Leave a comment. Why is Trump really now saying release the files? All right, awesome. New sponsor to talk about Wild Alaskan company. They do sustainable seafood memberships. I got one of these boxes and it is just phenomenal. The whole point with wild Alaskan seafood is that it's 100% wild caught, it's never farmed. It's from sustainably managed fisheries in Alaska, frozen at the peak of freshness and then delivered to you. They've got three curated boxes. The wild salmon box, the wild white fish box, and the wild combo box. I got a box that had everything beautifully vacuum sealed. The fish comes in pre portioned fillets. We had crab, we had scallops. I know I should be saying scallops. I just, it's just not for me. I call them scallops. Okay? Delicious and sustainable. 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You tell me what that means now. Immediately noticeable. Trump's voice is a mess. This was in the Oval Office and he just Something sounds very wrong.

[Donald Trump]

An even bigger event next year as we host the official 2026 FIFA World Cup. That's the big one, the World cup tournament. This will be a once in a lifetime opportunity even for our country because frankly, you know, this goes to countries. Everybody wants it. I guess it's going all over the world.

[David Pakman]

So Trump's voice noticeably messed up. Trump also notably covering his right hand with the left, which is something that he's done lately. When that bruising on the right hand looks particularly bad. Reporters immediately noticed something is wrong with Trump and a reporter actually asked about.

[Kevin Hassett]

A question about Venezuela. Can I just first ask the health of the President's always needs. Your voice sounds a little rough.

[David Pakman]

Are you feeling all right?

[Donald Trump]

I feel great. I was shouting at people because they were stupid about something. Having to do with trade and a country. And I straightened it out, but I blew my stack at these people.

[David Pakman]

There it is. Trump blew his stack.

[Kevin Hassett]

Well, it sounds like there's a follow up there, but can I ask you about Venezuela, you suggest is there what? It sounds like there's a follow up there. Can I ask you about Venezuela?

[Donald Trump]

You said there was a polyp. I don't want to hear that.

[David Pakman]

A lot of laughing. But Trump, for whatever reason heard polyp instead of follow up. And that is certainly, maybe there's something sort of Freudian in there. Anyway, moving on to substance. Cornered animals often strike out and, and cornered. Trump is just getting more and more authoritarian, saying, you know what, we have a problem in Seattle. We might just go there. The threats continue.

[Donald Trump]

If we think there's going to be a sign of any trouble, I would ask Johnny to move that to a different city. We have a lot of cities that are what would love to have it, number one, and we'll do it very safely. So if we think there's a problem in Seattle where you have a very, very, very liberal slash communist mayor, I would say, you know, it's certainly beyond just liberal. I watched her over the weekend. Wow, that's another beauty we got there. But if we think there's going to be a problem, we'll. Johnny, can I say we will move. I don't think you're going to have this problem, but we're going to move the event to someplace where it's going to be appreciated and safe. Yeah, I think safety and security is.

[David Pakman]

The number one priority, priority for a success. Anyway. Johnny from FIFA is not exactly committing to move anything, but he says, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all a priority. But it's Trump punitive if I think you're communist. We will take away the FIFA World Cup. Trump asked, mentioning, asked about mentioning that he was shouting because of trade, that he blew his stack over trade. And he was asked, what country was it that upset you so much? And here's what he had to say. Sorry, wrong clip. You mentioned your voice and you were shouting about trade.

[Laura Field]

Which country in particular upset you?

[David Pakman]

Was it India?

[Donald Trump]

No. No country wanted to try and renegotiate the terms of their trade deal. And I wasn't happy about it.

[Laura Field]

Which country was it?

[Donald Trump]

People want to know, why would I say that to you? I can't believe it, Mr. President.

[David Pakman]

And then finally, another authoritarian nightmare. Trump asked, are you ruling out troops on the ground in Venezuela? And Trump goes, I don't rule out anything.

[Kevin Hassett]

You suggested you've made a decision about what you want to do next to Venezuela. I understand you don't want to tip your hand, but is there anything you're ready to rule out at this point? Are you ruling out U.S. troops on the ground?

[Donald Trump]

I don't rule out that. I don't rule out anything. We just have to take care of Venezuela. They dumped hundreds of hundreds of thousands of people into our country from prisons. Nobody knows better than this young lady right here. She's done an incredible job with Tom Holman and all of your people. It's amazing. You know, we have a tight border right now. Nobody comes in, but we had millions of people pouring through. A year ago, we had millions of people pouring through our border, and many of them came from Venezuela, including Trende, Aragua, the gang. And I guess what I'm hearing, Christie, is that as bad a gang as.

[David Pakman]

There is any worst, you know, for Trump, Venezuela is just a political toy. Trump granted Venezuelans temporary legal status at the end of his first term, thinking this will cause a problem for Biden, which I can then attack Biden over. And Venezuela has never been something Trump actually cares about when it comes to the people. It's been something Trump cares about with regard to what kind of leverage can I get? What can I do to make myself look better now? Of course not ruling out troops on the ground in Venezuela. You know, sorry, I hit my mic there. There are gesticulating wildly because this is so outrageous. There is a view that says, oh, you never rule anything out because then you're sort of pre negotiating if you rule it out. Venezuela knows he'll never send troops here. But there are ways to handle this that don't strike authoritarian fear into the hearts of everyone that has been following Trump's growing autocracy and dictatorial wet dreams. So a disaster in the Oval Office. And then Trump had to give a speech, and all of a sudden it got much, much worse. Donald Trump faced what he fears the most at a disastrous speech to the McDonald's impact summit. And that is going up there and telling his stupid jokes, which aren't really jokes, and making his authoritarian statements. And the audience isn't really loving it. That is Donald Trump's worst nightmare and not exactly convincing anybody that his brain is working super well. Trump talking just in gibberish. The crowd wondering what the hell is going on here. We don't understand it.

[Donald Trump]

The core inflation has been the lowest in just about eight years. Just changed. It was four years, now it's eight years. It just changed about an Hour. They just said, sir, if you want, we can rewrite the speech. I said, no, I can remember it very nicely, thank you. I'm not Biden.

[David Pakman]

He can remember it. What?

[Donald Trump]

In the past six months, the price of breakfast items has fallen.

[David Pakman]

The price of breakfast items. So listen, Since June of 2023, inflation is basically flat. It's bounced between 2.5, 2.6 and 3. Most of that period of time, Biden was president. The last 10 months Trump was president. He's just lying about inflation. Trump also lying about the price of gasoline. And this is another topic of obsession for him.

[Donald Trump]

But the price of, of gasoline and the price of energy is way down. So when energy comes down, you make the donuts, you make the chicken, you make whatever you're making. Everything is all about energy.

[David Pakman]

You have to write energy down. You make chicken, what, deliver it.

[Donald Trump]

You have the trucks, you have the fuel. When energy comes down and it's come down fast, you know, we had an expression, drill, baby, drill.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. Unfortunately for Trump, the price of gas isn't down. As you can see in this chart. When Donald Trump took over as president, gas was about 305, and it's about 305. It looks right now like it's 308. Gas is flat since Donald Trump took office for a second time. He insists on telling the lie about it, but it's been about 305 a gallon since Trump took over. Then Trump went into the real sort of dementia like stories where he starts talking about skedaddle and sort of potentially even going into classified stuff. It's one of the funny things with Trump is you often wonder, is he, is he talking about classified things? You can't tell because it's so unintelligible.

[Donald Trump]

I see. I said to see. Now, if I were a flyer and they cancel, I'd be extremely happy. Well, we're canceled, so let's forget it. But we were devastated. So I said, this is something you really love, right? Yes, sir. We were so honored. This was the greatest day of our life. I mean, it's really great. We just have incredible people in this. It's an amazing story. And they hit and then they said, skidaddle the word skedaddle. And that plane went like this. You know, when it drops a bomb, it goes down, very sleepy bomb go boom. That gives it a better angle and, you know, more speed for the, for the bomb. Very, very heavy bombs. And they go boom. And as soon, boom. Those things. The one pile of the first was it skedaddle and that thing just turned in its side, and it. I mean, it's so unbelievable. And that knocked out Iran nuclear capability, and all of the Middle east became a different place. And now we have.

[David Pakman]

He sounds terrible. Something's wrong with his voice, and he's going. They go bump, bump. And then the one pilot said, skedaddle, skedaddle. Free association. Completely incoherent. Trump repeating the lie about water. Water. And don't worry, he'll get into dishwashers, too. Just God forbid he doesn't talk about toilets.

[Donald Trump]

And, you know, it's interesting. Your dishwashers were covered, right? Yet no water. I was with some of the people that make them whirlpool and others, and they said, sir, they won't give us the water to use in our dishwashers or use in our washing machines. The washing machines have no water. I mean, it's like a glass of water, half a glass of water. We need water. And I said, how bad is it? He said, well, like the dishwasher, they put the dishes in, and they just keep pressing the button, bing, bing, bing. They end up using more water. So I gave them, as you know, unlimited water. Biden came back with a rigged election, and he immediately restricted the water again. But I came back in immediately, unrestricted again. So now you have unlimited water to clean your damn dishes. Okay, there you go.

[David Pakman]

And other things, your other elements of the bathroom potentially as well, that finally showed signs of life in the audience. Trump, as you all know, is a little bit sensitive about the size of his hands. And the topic of his hands, or at least at least just hands down, did come up.

[Donald Trump]

Didn't you hate that you walk in to wash your hands. I'm a big hands guy. I like to wash my hands. You know, I used to hate shaking hands. Now, if you. Once you run for office, you better like shaking hands or you got a problem. You ever see a politician? No, I don't want to shake hands. Can you do that? I don't think you wouldn't be a politician very long.

[David Pakman]

One of the most disjointed speeches, which I can only imagine to some degree is this. This guy's preoccupied about the Epstein files. I would be if I were him. I mean, listen, that's not nothing to be ashamed about. It's a crisis in the White House. This guy potentially is about to be exposed for having done, wow, who knows what. And then maybe the line of the night, this has nothing to do with McDonald's, but maybe it does.

[Donald Trump]

You know what? They want the sugar Isn't that nice? I said, you got to go to sugar, just like I said. Why is the Gulf of Mexico called the Gulf of Mexico? I said, we're changing the name and now it's the Gulf of America. Has nothing to do with McDonald's. But maybe it does because it's very nice cycle. We have 92% of the shoreline.

[David Pakman]

There you go. It has nothing to do with McDonald's, but maybe it does. This is a cornered Trump. This is a disoriented Trump. And this is a Trump who's clearly having trouble focusing on anything, even his dilapidated speeches, because of what's potentially coming. Meanwhile, Marjorie Taylor Greene is now dealing with people trying to kill her. Let's talk about that. Marjorie Taylor Greene is one of the original MAGA superfans. She's now getting assassination threats from the very movement that she spent years promoting. Police in Georgia have confirmed they have found two emails threatening to kill Marjorie Taylor Greene and her family. The emails were so unhinged, they got caught in the junk mail filter, which symbolically feels perfect for how MAGA behaves in general. Their normal communication is so outrageous that spam filters would go, this clearly should go into your junk folder. And this all started a couple days ago when Donald Trump went online and labeled her a traitor, said nobody cares about her, said her name turns brown when it rots. Really, the behavior of a high school bully. This is Donald Trump's post from two days ago on Truth Social. Quote, lightweight congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Brown. Green grass turns brown when it begins to rot. Betrayed the entire Republican Party when she turned left, performed poorly on the pathetic view, and became the rhino that we all know. She always was just another fake politician, no different than Rand Paul Jr. Thomas Massie, who got caught being a full fledged Republican in Name Only. Make America Great again. Well, within 48 hours of this divorce between Trump and Marjorie Taylor Greene, she's getting death threats. Now we know what this is. We have seen this pattern a thousand times. Trump's followers are like rabid dogs when given something new to pay attention to. It's not antifa that's threatening Marjorie Taylor Greene. It's not Democrats. It's not blm, it's not socialists, it's not communists. This is Trump's base doing what they always do when Trump points at someone and says, that's now our enemy. And this is where the context really does matter. Marjorie Taylor Greene has never been a victim in the larger political story. She spent years harassing Democrats, stalking teenagers, yelling at kids, spreading conspiracies going after innocent people. She's been the perpetrator, not the victim. She built a brand on creating fear, creating chaos. And now she's getting a taste of the climate that she encouraged. Now, I'm against it. I believe that we must solve our political differences without violence, period. No exceptions at all, even for Marjorie Taylor Greene. But there's a degree to which this is what happens inside of authoritarian movements. You run on loyalty and not on ideology. And the moment you stop serving the dear Leader's needs, the mob will turn on you. Trump denounces her, says she's a traitor. Marjorie Traitor Brown. His base immediately threatens to kill her. It's the formula. Now, Marjorie Taylor Greene even admits it. She says Trump's attacks are a dog whistle to dangerous radicals. And she's been down the road before. Swatting calls, death threats, you know, all this different stuff. The threats are coming from inside the MAGA house. And the part that I want to underline again, even if Marjorie Taylor Greene wants the Epstein files out, good for her. She is still an extremist. She is not an ally. She hasn't become enlightened about political perspectives. But the chaos she's creating inside of MAGA is useful. And the left needs to figure out how to use it. That's. That's the real concern. The left often fails to figure out how to use these things. Nothing exposes a failing movement faster than watching it turn on its own soldiers. When your supporters are threatening to murder each other, when Trump gets irritated, that is the potential for a collapse. The cult may be decaying. That's all we care about. Marjorie Taylor Greene is not on our side. She's not with us on climate. She's not with us on social issues. She's not with us on economic issues. She wants the Epstein files released, which any normal person would want. That's such a low bar. She's upset that some of her constituents might face higher health care bills, which they will, which might hurt her reelection chances next year. So she's worried about self preservation, but that's all that this is. So I denounce any death threat against anybody, elected official or not. Even if they fomented death threats before, I still wouldn't call for them. But we need to remember that this is not suddenly an ally, and she now is legitimately facing death threats from the very people who used to support her. 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This is serious protection for you and your family against identity theft, against fraud, doxing harassment, and Incogni's data removal process is the only one independently verified by Deloitte. Get 60% off an annual plan when you visit incogni.com/pacman and use the code Pacman. The link is in the Description Donald Trump has already packed his second term cabinet with loyalists. He's threatened deportation as political punishment. He's expanded executive authority in ways we have not seen in modern history. These are real changes that are happening right now. And what's even more alarming is that a lot of the media is either glossing over the worst of it or they're reframing it so it all sounds a little more palatable. And that is why I use Ground News. This is a news comparison tool, doesn't just feed you headlines, it shows you here's how different outlets, left, right, center are covering the same story. And this is one of the few tools I know of that can really help you detect the political spin, the bias catch stories that your usual sources might downplay or not cover it all on everything from immigration policy to economic shifts. If you want to get a bigger picture, a broader picture of what's being reported, Ground News is an invaluable source to keep you informed. And Ground News is offering my audience 40% off their top tier vantage plan. You'll only pay five bucks a month. Go to Ground News, slash Pacman or enter the code Pacman in the app to get started. The link is in the description what is the political foundation of of Trumpism? Is it conservatism? Is it authoritarianism? We are going to explore that and also the question of what is going to be the legacy and future of Trump ism when Trump is gone and at some point he will be Is it going to be JD Vance doing Trump ism? Is it going to be JD Vance doing Peter Thiel style Technocracy. We are going to be speaking about these questions with writer and political theorist Laura Field. We talk about so many of these things, the influence of the Catholic Church on current Trumpism and more. Her new book is Furious Minds the Making of the MAGA New Right. Let's get to that conversation. So, Laura, you know, I've always thought of the Republican Party, at least pre Trump, as kind of broken into a few groups, the kind of pro business Republicans, kind of like the Romney types, the religious conservatives whose focus is more social issues and religion, and then kind of like the libertarian right, which sometimes can seem sort of centrist or left on social issues, but at the end of the day they are still part of the right wing. In the MAGA era where we have Trumpism. Do you think that that analysis of the Republican Party still makes sense? Is there an additional component or has it sort of rewritten these alliances?

[Laura Field]

Well, thank you. I think that model, those cohorts or contingents are still there in some respects, but there's been a big crack up and a whole overhaul of the Republican Party and the main actors in the party. And so my book chronicles this transformation. I'm focused mainly on the intellectual part of the movement and so thinking of Buckley and the National Review and the people who were thought of previously as the old establishment, they've basically been replaced over the course of the last decade or so. And so my book tracks that, tries to explain how it happened, chronicles the key people involved and the key moments. So yes, all of the different pieces of the puzzle are still there, but there are new pieces that you didn't mention that kind of have really come to the foreground.

[David Pakman]

Tell us about those new pieces.

[Laura Field]

Sure thing. Yeah. So I think a useful way to think about this is to think about the old fusionist coalition under Reagan and sort of thought through by people like William Buckley and Frank Meyer. And that that model was illiberal economics. Right. Or small fiscal conservatism, free trade, social conservatism and liberal internationalism or anti communism. That's the trifecta. It was called the Gipper's Stool with Reagan. And that model has really just been completely, well, not completely, but mostly transformed. And so in 2016, one of the people I write about named Michael Anton, described Trumpism as economic nationalism, which is very different from fiscal conservatism. Social conservatism was still very much in the mix, though it wasn't part of his definition. So his definition was economic nationalism, Secure Borders and America First Foreign policy And so those last two things are very different from the Reagan vision. And those threads of conservatism had been part of the movement for a long time, often associated with what is called the old right or with Paleo conservatism. And Trump really represented a lot of that. And that was one of the things I was surprised about in writing the book, just how the people who sort of were at the vanguard of defending Trump from an intellectual perspective were really drawing on these very prominent threads of Paleo conservative thought, which had always been in contention and sort of vying for power within the, the conservative intellectual movement more broadly.

[David Pakman]

Has there been a change in your mind to, if we just imagine the right like on a ruler, right, like a political spectrum, has there been a change to where on the spectrum the kind of tone and agenda setting was coming from? In the sense of Buckley, maybe was was agenda setting, but from closer to the center, where now maybe the agenda setting is happening further to the extreme? Or is that not a change that has taken place place?

[Laura Field]

No, I think that's a fair way to describe the change. I mean, you can think about one shorthand people use to describe the MAGA New Right, which is my name for this sort of intellectual networked cluster of people, is to say that they've moved left on economics and right on social issues. And that's kind of useful as a really quick shorthand, but it's not, it's. But, you know, these spectrums we use get very complicated and kind of messy. So I think left on economics doesn't quite capture the extent to which they really have moved to the right more generally. And there's all kinds of sort of extremism packed in when it comes to.

[David Pakman]

The people most influential in, I guess, where Trump is today. To some degree, Trump second term is a little bit different than Trump first term, and maybe we'll talk about that a little bit. But who were the players or influences that you think have the most sort of control over where Trump's agenda is in his second term?

[Laura Field]

So that's a very useful question. And I think, let me just say, I mean, some of the sort of tangible ways in which I think these ideas, people matter because I think it's kind of easy to think, well, Trump is not exactly sitting there reading white papers, right, about the future of the gop. And I think that's a true instinct that we have in response to this stuff. But just, I mean, and as I sort of track in the book, there was this intellectual movement that kind of came in to fill this vacuum. And they've been really, really successful. And so during the course of the first Trump administration, they were kind of coming together in their own private ways and organizing conferences. And I track. I basically named three different groups which we can get into maybe in a second. But there's the Claremont Institute people, Michael Anton, who I just mentioned, the National Conservatives, who are sort of the umbrella organizing group, and then the post liberal group, which is mainly sort of Catholic conservatives. And so they all came together in the first administration, and they helped orchestrate January 16th, excuse me, January 6th in some important ways, and wrote the legal memos for Pence, all of that. So they were crucial. They had an impact in the first administration. But surprisingly, after January 6th and after Biden won and was inaugurated, I sort of thought the movement would die out, right? That these people would sort of realize, oh, that didn't go very well. But that's not what happened. They started to gradually take over these important institutions like the Heritage Foundation, Intercollegiate Studies Association. There was a huge proliferation of new social media, new journals, new legal. You know, Stephen Miller started a legal found, you know, group. So. So there was a lot going on. They started trying out their. Their policies in the red states, like in Florida. And then they wrote up Project 2025. Right. Sort of. I mean, not immediately. All the. All these people I write about weren't directly involved in that, but they were part of that sort and that new direction. And I'll finish up, but they also got J.D. vance. Basically. These are the guys behind J.D. vance. He's friends with most of the people I write about and has been impacted by them. And then, of course, they won the election. And finally, they also just have had this really major impact in the cultural sort of milieu of conservatism with young staffers on Capitol Hill. You can hear now there are these people saying that 30 to 40% of the people in Washington are groipers, which is the very far right. Nick Fuente's crowd. I'm skeptical about that. But. But you can see this sort of massive cultural transformation in the gop, especially with young people.

[David Pakman]

I'm curious what you make about this divide over the H1B visa, because it's been very interesting to watch how, you know, people like Elon Musk during the. I guess we would call it the breakup that ultimately took place with Donald Trump. Although maybe not because then they were buddy, buddy at Charlie Kirk's Fun, but during the public breakup that took place, there was this disagreement over, do we need to be America first in terms of who gets the jobs, or do we need to be bringing in smart engineers from other countries in order to make American companies do well? And there's been kind of a disagreement. Vivek Ramaswamy has been part of that disagreement. What do you make of that? And is that a predictable disagreement based on how this movement has sort of coalesced?

[Laura Field]

Yeah, I think, I mean, generally speaking, what's happening now, and you give a good example of this, is they're in power, they're doing a lot of big things, and with that responsibility comes sort of the divisions become more obvious. And so, yeah, I think that was predictable. There's basically unity on the new right about immigration in terms of it's generally bad and has been pursued in a bad way since the 60s because some of it's just raw racism. And otherwise they justify it based on sort of cultural mores and that we should be privileging either people from Europe or people, as you say, with these kind of special expertise, which is less controversial. So there are sort of different factions will argue different points on this. Some of them, there are some who want, who are open to Catholic immigration in a way that they're more close to other forms of immigration. So, yeah, I think it was predictable. I was personally quite surprised by Elon Musk's just like, outsized role in the early part of this administration. That was frankly, just like, they keep surprising me. And that was one of the big.

[David Pakman]

Things when it comes to using fear of societal change is the new right. I don't know if better is the right word because it's sort of like, if you think it's a bad thing, are they better, are they more skilled or more effective at using fear of social change, which could include where immigrants are coming from, but it encompasses other areas as well. Are they more effective or less effective than prior Republicans?

[Laura Field]

Well, that's a, you know, it's a, it's a touchy question. So the way, like, as you sort of noted in your framing of it, I think they're way better at it, which also makes them way worse.

[David Pakman]

Right.

[Laura Field]

And but I think one thing that we have to be careful about here is that Trump was able to articulate some real grievances that were, that did matter to people, obviously, in a way that I think establishment conservatives weren't able to tap into or maybe even see. And certainly Democrats weren't and aren't able to see. And I don't mean to be excessively vague here. I think I'm not just talking about immigration and the controversies around immigration. I mean, Democrats and Republicans, they've been trying to solve that for a long time. And I mean, so I don't mean to get partisan. I think that the Republicans are guilty on that front for not moving forward with legislation. But. But I'm also talking about economic issues. Right? The economic crisis, the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. I mean, Donald Trump was very vocal about that. And the people I write about are very clear that his willingness to just say things that are completely disavowed or were in the Republican establishment really did him a good service, because there was a kind of authenticity there, which I despise. Donald Trump personally find it really still bewildering that he is the president of this country. But. But those things do matter to people, right? And the establishment on both sides is not very good at confronting that.

[David Pakman]

What do you make of the divide among the right over the Epstein files in the sense of the people that now, even with the emails that came out last week, go, oh, these are doctored, or like, who would believe Jeffrey Epstein anyway? I don't really care what it says. Is that coming out of a personal loyalty to Trump? Is it coming out of something else? Are you surprised by the divide?

[Laura Field]

I'm not that surprised because it seems like in the lead up to the 2024 election, they, many Republicans were using the Epstein files as an argument in their own favor, and they were saying, we're going to release them. They were fueling the conspiracy theories, which maybe weren't conspiracy theories about who's in those files. And so, but, so I'm not. I think, and I think that the public. There are a lot of conspiracies on the right about Democrats being pedophiles. Right. And that. And just these, like, really awful networks of traffickers. Like, there's a lot of that. And so. And for good reason. I mean, even if those things are false, you can see how people would care about it, because anyone who has children cares about this stuff. It's really disgusting. And so, yeah, I'm not surprised. And I think it's. It's also just like the fish rots from the top. I mean, this stuff is unbelievable and explosive. And I think it's going to be a real problem for the Republicans and maybe some Democrats. Who knows who's in this file.

[David Pakman]

Right, Right. Yeah. No, for sure. It is interesting how the people on the left that I talk to, they go, yeah, there may well be Democrats. We don't care. We just want to see everything and it seems like there is less of a concern that their people would be in the files. Like, I saw a lot of commentary over the weekend, like, listen, if this takes down Bill Clinton because he was more involved than we currently knew, and it also exposes Trump, like, who cares? We just want to know what happened.

[Laura Field]

Kidding. Yeah, no, I agree. Like, I don't, I spend too much time watching the right, so I don't have a real sense of how people think on the left except for, you know, many of my friends and my, I'm a liberal, right? But it's like, so I'm just like, yeah, who cares? I mean, get rid of them, vote. You know, like these guys can go down, all of them, like, bring it on. Right? But I don't know, I think that it's just very touchy because for the right right now that means losing the power they currently hold and it's, it completely explodes. They've gone all in on Trump. Someone like J.D. vance has gone all in on this guy. I don't think he can backpedal now. So I think it create, you know, it's this huge, huge, massive problem for them. And you know, Democrats should be exploiting the heck out of that.

[David Pakman]

Let's talk a little bit about JD Vance because I did want to kind of talk about the succession planning, so to speak, for the, for the current. Right. There's the idea of Vance as the heir apparent to Trump, but there's two versions of that, I guess you would say. One is Vance would actually continue Trumpism as we know it today. The other angle is no, Vance would actually be doing the Peter Thiel inspired sort of technocratic right that has maybe helped Vance become a senator in the first place, with Thiel support, etc. Do you have any opinion, insights or thoughts as to what is likely to be the succession planning here?

[Laura Field]

Yeah, I think that that's a useful way of sort of distinguishing the two paths. And I would, I think he would try to distance himself from Trump the moment Trump's out of power and try to present himself as this new possibility. And you're right, it would be sort of teal inflected, right wing technocracy. I think that, and there are kind of tensions as we saw with Doge vs Maga. There are these tensions and rifts in the movement. And so I think, for one thing, I think that that's not going to necessarily be popular enough with some of the people who were opposed to the tariffs. I don't know that he'll get away with backpedaling like that. But it's all very hard to say. I think the one thing that gives me pause is in terms of the groups that I write about that I listed before, he's sort of in with all of them and they span the whole spectrum. And so they. And I think that even if technocratic right wing industrial policy or re industrialization or a social conservative program for some sort of social democracy, left economics, which I think is kind of what we're talking about with Vance, even if that's all true, it's also layered in with a very radical effort to basically use what's left of the American federal regime to impose a Catholic social order. Not maybe in J.D. vance's case, but a lot of the people I write about who he's closest to do take that view. They have a very radical agenda. I sound like a conspiracy theorist. But they are quite explicit that they would like to use the state to reorder American society towards the common good and the highest good, which is Catholic salvation in their view. So it's very, you know, he's sort of bound up with that and has and has called himself a post liberal. I'm not sure he believes in all of the things I just mentioned, but that's sort of an explicit part of what they're up to.

[David Pakman]

We've been speaking with Laura Field, writer and political theorist. Her new book is Furious Minds the Making of the New Maga. Right. Really appreciate your time today.

[Laura Field]

Thank you so much for having me.

[David Pakman]

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[Laura Field]

Alicia Machado says she was surprised to hear Hillary Clinton bring up her story on live national tv. But she is an enthusiastic Clinton supporter who is adding her voice to the list of women who have accused Donald Trump of sexist behavior over the years. She has a name.

[Donald Trump]

Where did you find her? Her name is Asha Machado. Where did you find her?

[Laura Field]

And she has become a US Citizen.

[David Pakman]

And you can bet she's going to vote this November.

[Donald Trump]

Okay, good.

[Laura Field]

What were the names that he called you?

[Epstein Survivor]

Miss Piggy, Miss Housekeeping, Miss Eating Machine.

[Laura Field]

All to your face.

[David Pakman]

Yes, all the time. That was really normal for, for him.

[Laura Field]

In that moment, you know, with, with.

[David Pakman]

18 years old when you are growing up. That was horrible for me. I was my, my self steam on the floor.

[Laura Field]

Machado says, hmm, hmm.

[David Pakman]

And then on Air Force One, Trump using the exact same phrase. Now, the question that the reporter was asking was about transparency and accountability for a conglomerate of some of the worst sex crimes in modern history. And the response that the reporter got was, quiet, Piggy. A tantrum wrapped in misogyny. Now, this is not just an issue about media relations. This is. This is an issue about fundamental respect for half of the population and the willingness of this administration to use just disgusting, demeaning language to shut down what is a legitimate inquiry. This is a story about sexism. Yes. This is a story about lack of respect for the media. This is a story about lack of accountability. This is a story about the fundamental belief that Trump is just beyond being challenged in this way. And so think about the disconnect. The point or the crux of this issue is the same thing keeps repeating itself. The baffling political resilience of this type of behavior. We just saw a video of the President of the United States calling a female journalist piggy on camera for asking a question about a global sex trafficking scandal in which Trump may be implicated. If your moral compass is normally functioning, this would be disqualifying. It would be a scandal. It would be front page. Trump's approval rating should be at 2. But a lot of Trump's base doesn't give a damn. For many Trump voters, they see this and they go, good for Trump, fighting back against the fake news media. And that kind of gets me to the bigger point, which is that the ultimate takeaway from this and a lot of the other Trump scandals is that Trump has broken the machinery of shame, rendering traditional norms and consequences obsolete. In. There is a time in the past when calling a reporter piggy could end a career. And for Trump, a bunch of his followers like it. They go, man, that's. That's really Trump being Trump. They've been inoculated against the shame. They've been convinced by years of rhetoric that the real scandal is reporting on Trump's behavior. Trump's behavior isn't the problem. It's that all these pesky piggies keep reporting on it. So we are now trapped in a political dynamic where moral outrage simply becomes a positive feedback loop for the person creating the outrage. Trump almost benefits from it, and it is vile and it is disgusting. Do they really think that we're this stupid? Do they think we're going to believe that the tariffs aren't the problem, but getting rid of the tariffs is the solution? Listen, we are going to be bravely putting out a fire. Oh, so starting the fire was a problem. The fire did do damage. Now, listen, we're not saying the fire. There was a fire. A fire existed. We're putting it out and we should get credit for that. Yeah, but didn't you start it? That's where we are today. And this hit CNBC where even CNBC host Joe Kernan, who's a right wing guy, he's gone after me on social media before, blah, blah, blah. Joe Kernan is even saying, isn't bragging about reversing the tariffs an acknowledgement that the tariffs are the problem? And Kevin Hassett goes, not really the whole issue of tariffs. If we're reversing some tariffs to try to help affordability, isn't that acknowledging that the tariffs were responsible or responsible for some of the higher prices and for some of the inflation that is still a problem.

[Kevin Hassett]

Well, first, this is nothing new. If you go through all of the, the trade deals that we've been doing all the way through, then there have been things that we decided it was prudent based on the economics of supply, demand to exempt. And one of those things that we've been exempting all along is something that we don't make in the US Will never make in the US or almost never. I know that in Hawaii they make some coffee and so on. Shoring that production really doesn't make sense. It's not part of our strategy. And what the president just did with food is to decide to make like a blanket movement so that we weren't going through each deal and picking this and that.

[David Pakman]

What did you, I hope folks realized the verbal jujitsu that took place there. Why can't we all just shut up and accept that Trump's tariffs didn't cause any problems that needed fixing. But Trump cutting tariffs on some of the things he tariffed is Trump solving a problem which he definitely didn't create. Why can't we just accept that? And of course, any kind of sane person would go, wait. If the tariffs didn't cause a problem, then removing them wouldn't solve anything, would it? Can you hold both ideas at the same time? So either the tariffs did raise prices and cutting them helps, or the tariffs were harmless and cutting them wouldn't be something to brag about. Which is it? Which is it? This is. They're like Schrodinger's tariffs, quite frankly. Here's another clip of Kevin Hassett. Everything is now euphemisms on the job and labor, labor market issues. Hassett says we might be in for a little bit of a quiet time in the labor market. A quiet time. If Trump rather if Rather than Trump, it was Biden who had the current cracks in the labor market. Do you think they'd be going, this is what, this is just a quiet time in the labor, labor market? That is not a phrase I have ever heard before. It's sort of like alternative facts.

[Kevin Hassett]

Last CPI report we got surprise 48 Bloomberg economists on the downside and even had some sort of temporary bad news because there was a refinery that was shut down. If you're looking at the top line number, I think that there have been mixed signals in the job market and really, really positive signals in the output market. So, as you know, we've got GDP now running close to 4%. We've got productivity running up around 3%. And so I think that there could be a little bit of almost quiet time in the labor market because firms are finding the AI is making their workers so productive that they don't necessarily have to hire the new kids out of college and so on.

[David Pakman]

Yeah, he's playing a lot of verbal games here. And I've got to give him credit. He's not bad at it. He's not bad at like, first of all, the idea of, of creating the phrase quiet time in the labor market is like, it's pretty wild, to be perfectly frank. And some people may fall for it. He also goes, GDP is now almost 4%. We had negative GDP growth in Q1, and then in Q2 there was a rebound, 3.8. But if you average the last three quarters, GDP is 1.67. GDP, 1.7 is a number that they would have said proves Biden needs to be immediately removed from office. So Cassidt is good at this. You've got to know the rhetorical tricks that he's playing. Here's one more on prices falling. Joe Kernan says that's not true. Here's what Kevin Hassett comes up with. Now. Inflation is still 3%. It's still too high. Now, oil prices, energy prices, there are certain things where they have come down. But when you keep saying prices are falling, that's not true because inflation is still. It's the 3% is on top of all the inflation we had during the Biden years. So we got all that inflation plus an additional 3%. And we should.

[Kevin Hassett]

I think you should admit that a more, a more precise way to say it though, Joe, is that purchasing power has gone up. So real wages, that's W divided by for our technical people in the audience, have gone up by about twelve hundred dollars this year.

[David Pakman]

So this is now a new game now they've moved. So this is called moving the goalposts. We were told prices would come down. We were given a number of other specific promises. Purchasing power was not one of those promises. And so now Hassett moves to purchasing power has gone up. Except what's the trick? There is always some trick. The purchasing power increase has gone disproportionately to the very wealthy. Purchasing power for the average person is not up twelve hundred dollars per year. So he's hitting. He's good at this. He really is. And so it takes much longer to debunk and explain than it does for him to just utter this stuff. But he's doing it and some people are falling for it. I'll do everything I can to debunk it. We've got a phenomenal bonus show for you today. Marjorie Taylor Greene getting some blowback. We'll talk about the latest from the FCC on Trump's call for Seth Meyers to be fired. Ted Cruz is thinking about maybe running for president. All of that and more is on today's bonus show. I look forward to seeing you there.