11/20/25: They found a way to hide the files anyway as Trump flips out

Summary

The David Pakman Show Episode: "They found a way to hide the files anyway as Trump flips out" Date: November 20, 2025 Host: David Pakman

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Episode Overview

In this episode, David Pakman delivers a comprehensive, incisive analysis of the latest developments surrounding the potential release of the Jeffrey Epstein files, the ensuing political chaos within the Republican party and MAGA movement, and the long-term implications for Donald Trump and the 2026 midterms. As Trump’s circle scrambles to justify withholding public information, Pakman unpacks the layers of political self-interest, smokescreens, and the surprising cracks in partisan loyalty—particularly as MAGA hardliners like Marjorie Taylor Greene turn against Trump. Trump’s unraveling is further illuminated by devastating new polling data and a revealing look at his authoritarian tendencies through his interactions with the press and international strongmen.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Epstein Files Scandal: Obfuscation and Excuses

• Department of Justice Stonewalling:

  • AG Pam Bondi, flanked by FBI Director Cash Patel, claims the DOJ will release more than 33,000 Epstein documents yet refuses to commit to releasing all files, citing "maximum transparency" and “ongoing investigations.” (03:23–07:48)
  • Repeated dodges imply new obstacles: recently discovered "new information," a sudden “pending investigation” in SDNY, and legal hand-wringing, all foreseen tactics to avoid a total release.
  • Quote (Pam Bondi, 04:10): "We will continue to follow the law with maximum transparency while protecting victims."
  • Pakman’s takeaway (07:48): “That is the key line. We now have a pending investigation in the Southern District of New York… They are never going to stop coming up with ways to prevent the full and robust release of these files.”

• Republican Semantics: “There is no Epstein List”

  • Rep. James Comer floats the notion that "there is no Epstein list," and if the DOJ hasn't compiled one, Republicans may "construct our own" (24:04–26:06).
  • Pakman highlights that this "list construction" is basically a pretext for creating partisan narratives—possibly to shield specific political interests.
  • Quote (Comer, 24:04): “If there’s no Epstein list… we’ll have to construct our own.”
  • Pakman draws a parallel with prior failed GOP investigations: “When I hear him say, ‘we’re going to do this like the Biden probe,’ you know it’s not going to be good.” (25:21)

2. Trump Loses Control over MAGA

• Insurrection Within the Party:

  • Trump reportedly tried to pressure MAGA lawmakers not to vote for full Epstein transparency but was rebuffed. Recognizing he’d lose, Trump quickly reversed course, now pretending to support release. (09:00+)
  • Tina Brown’s sharp analysis: MAGA’s obsession with alleged pedophilia means Trump’s base “mainlines” the issue. There’s too much visual and email documentation tying Trump to Epstein to suppress the narrative.

• Marjorie Taylor Greene Breaks Ranks:

  • Greene, once a day-one MAGA stalwart, now accuses Trump of “ripping the movement apart” by trying to suppress the files, signaling a dramatic fracturing of the base. (44:29–46:02)
    • Quote (Marjorie Taylor Greene, 44:44): “Watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart. And the only thing that will speak to the powerful, courageous women behind me is when action is actually taken to release these files. And the American people won't tolerate any other bullshit.”
  • Pakman: “This is how demagogues lose control—not in some explosive, dramatic moment…but people start saying no and nothing happens to them… This is one of the first times that someone from deep inside of MAGA is attacking Trump in a way that actually hits a nerve.” (46:02)

3. The Leaks and Survivor Stories

• Amid the media maelstrom and internal GOP bickering, survivor accounts begin to surface more publicly, describing the sickening abuses tied to Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell (11:00–13:00). Pakman laments how these voices have been sidelined in the furor over partisan damage control.

4. Political Blowback: Polls and Party Identity

• Devastating Polls for Trump and GOP:

  • New PBS/NPR/Marist data: Democrats lead the midterm ballot by the largest margin in 8 years—Democrats +14 nationally, +33 among independents. Trump’s approval is underwater (39% approve, 56% disapprove). (18:00–22:00)
  • Pakman (18:40): “That, if it holds, is a brutalization.”
  • Comparison to the 2018 “Blue Wave”—now with Trump even less popular and his base collapsing.

• GOP Image: 60% of voters now see Republicans as “the closed-minded party,” cutting against the party’s old “free speech” narrative. (22:30)

5. Fox News Clips—Disinformation and Spin

• James Comer and Maria Bartiromo repeatedly muddy the waters about the Epstein investigation, “list construction,” and try to conflate it with previous grievances (Jan 6, Russia probe, Biden laptop, etc.)—clearest example of right-wing media narrative manufacturing. (26:15–28:45)
• Scott Turner (HUD Secretary) dodges a simple question on how undocumented immigrants get mortgages—a recurring theme: disinformation replaces substantive answers. (30:20–31:37)
  • Pakman, fact-checking (32:00+): “Undocumented immigrants can’t get a federally backed mortgage… There is no program that allows undocumented immigrants to get a mortgage. This is completely and totally made up out of thin air, which is their favorite.”

6. Trump’s Psychology and Press Antagonism

• Montage of Trump publicly melting down—especially when challenged by women reporters—illustrates both misogyny and a deep personal insecurity. (38:35–41:04)
  • Pakman (41:04): “When men ask Trump confrontational questions, he gets snippy. When it’s a woman, he flips a switch and goes into red-face toddler mode… This really isn’t just misogyny. It’s insecurity. It is fear. It’s this lifelong wound that Trump is still bleeding from. And we’re all suffering.”

7. Authoritarian Sympathies and International Relations

• Gushing Over Autocrats:

  • Trump effusively praises the Saudi Crown Prince (“the most distinguished gentleman, he’s my friend… Thank you, Mohammed, I appreciate it” [57:36–58:14]), and touts his chairmanship of a “United Nations Board of Peace”—a staged event to cloak personal ambition in global legitimacy. (53:04–58:29)
  • Pakman (58:29): “The President… visibly gushing over one of the worst human rights denying autocrats… That is the state of the United States as we approach the end of 2025. Sad, sad state of affairs.”

• Fact-Checking Trump’s Claims:

  • Trump misleads about job records, inflation, and his “crusade against WOKE,” which Pakman points out is at odds with free-speech rhetoric. (54:17, 55:15)

8. Odds and Ends: Perfume Anecdotes and Personal Deflections

• Caroline Levitt, Trump spokesperson, resorts to calling the Epstein saga “just another Washington hoax,” refusing to clarify what exactly is the supposed hoax. (59:33–60:21)
• Bizarre vignette: Trump reportedly sprays perfume on the Syrian president and others, with Levitt explaining, “He's just showing off his wonderful scents. He's very generous.” (61:26–61:57)
• Interlude about Levitt’s marriage, which Pakman notes with deadpan incredulity only matters insofar as she is the “public face of dishonesty.” (62:40–62:56)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• [04:10] Pam Bondi: "We will continue to follow the law with maximum transparency while protecting victims."
• [07:48] David Pakman: “That is the key line. We now have a pending investigation in the Southern District of New York… They are never going to stop coming up with ways to prevent the full and robust release of these files.”
• [24:04] Rep. James Comer: "If there’s no Epstein list… we’ll have to construct our own."
• [44:44] Marjorie Taylor Greene: “Watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart… The American people won't tolerate any other bullshit.”
• [41:04] David Pakman: “When men ask Trump confrontational questions, he gets snippy. When it’s a woman, he flips a switch and goes into red-face toddler mode… This is not just misogyny. It’s insecurity. It is fear.”
• [57:36] Donald Trump: “He [MBS] is the most distinguished gentleman. He’s my friend… Thank you, Mohammed, I appreciate it.”
• [59:33] Caroline Levitt (paraphrased): "The Epstein stuff is just another Washington hoax… the president wants to focus on real issues."

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• Epstein Investigations & DOJ Press Conference: 00:00–13:00
• Dissecting Republican Narrative Spin: 24:00–28:45
• Internal MAGA Fracture & Marjorie Taylor Greene: 44:29–46:02
• Poll Analysis and Political Implications: 18:00–23:00
• Fox News Interview Fact-Checks: 30:20–35:21
• Trump’s Press Meltdowns: 38:35–41:04
• Trump’s Autocrat Praise & Falsehoods: 53:04–58:29
• Caroline Levitt on Perfume & Personal Life: 59:33–62:56

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Conclusion

This episode is a sweeping indictment of the Trump administration’s stonewalling and political games around the Epstein files, set amid an accelerating collapse of Trump’s influence on his own base and party. Through pointed analysis, abundant media clips, and sharp fact-checking, Pakman delivers a warning: the gamesmanship around transparency, justice, and truth-telling is catching up with Trump, as new cracks appear in the once-ironclad MAGA coalition. The real battlefield is not just over a closed investigation or a sealed cache of files—but the unraveling of fear, loyalty, and consequence in authoritarian politics.

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For more detail and to support the show’s ongoing charity drive, Pakman directs listeners to joinpakman.com and davidpakman.com/fundraiser.

Transcript

[David Pakman]

Introducing Family freedom from T Mobile. We'll pay off four phones up to $3200 and give you four free phones, all on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com familyfreedom up to $800 per line via virtual prepaid card typically takes 15 days. Free phone via 24 monthly bill credits with finance agreement. Example Apple iPhone 16, 128 gigs $829.99 Eligible trade in example iPhone 11 Pro for well qualified credits end and balance due if you pay off early or cancel Contact Us it truly pains me to say we've predicted this, but Trump's people just all but admitted they're going to doctor the Epstein files. They're going to hold back the Epstein files, ongoing investigation, blah, blah, blah. And Republicans are already floating the idea of constructing, that's their word, their own Epstein list from scratch. This is exactly the set of excuses we said they would use and they're going to try to do it. Meanwhile, as Trump tries to prepare for the potential impact of the story, he has lost control of his own party. MAGA lawmakers are ignoring him. Survivors are speaking out. Marjorie Taylor Greene is accusing him of ripping the movement apart. This is the first real break in maga, and it's happening over the topic that Trump can't escape. And then the new polls hit and they're devastating. Democrats have opened their biggest lead in eight years. Independents are turning on Republicans by 30 plus points. Trump's approval is sinking. This is the collapse he's been terrified of since coming back into office. We've also, by the way, got an update where we have now raised almost $15,000, thanks to you, donated to Feeding America. We're doing what we can to get food to hungry people. Every new membership@join packman.com and on my substack, the full first payment, be it monthly or yearly, will be donated to Feeding America. Over $14,400 so far. That's 144,000 meals. Incredible numbers. Read about it at David pakman.com/fundraiser. What a show today. Well, my friends, they are going to doctor or withhold the Epstein files. They're not just going to give us the files. They're desperate and someone might be able to save Trump. That person is Attorney General Pam Bondi. It might include Cash Patel and I. I hate that it was so predictable. I hate that we know these people so well that we know they've got something up their sleeves. And Pam Bondi spoke at the Department of Justice, flanked by FBI Director Cash Patel. And she gives away the game. First red flag. She's a little cagey. She's just, you know, not exactly forthcoming with information. And she refuses to answer multiple questions about what are the next steps for releasing the files Exactly. Remember, the DOJ has 30 days to do it. They might do it quickly, they might not. Trump doesn't even need this process. Trump could just say, give me the files. I'm releasing the files. What are they going to do? Well, Pam Bondi is being a little.

[Pam Bondi]

Bit cagey on the Epstein files.

[David Pakman]

Does the new investigation by the Southern.

[Pam Bondi]

District of New York U.S. attorney prevent the department from releasing all of the remaining files? So we have released 33,000, over 33,000 Epstein documents to the Hill and will continue to follow the law and to have maximum transparency. Also, we will always.

[David Pakman]

They're going to continue maximum transparency that there hasn't been any transparency, that they started.

[Pam Bondi]

Courage. All victims to come forward.

[James Comer]

What are the next steps?

[David Pakman]

Madam Attorney General, for the DoJ, regarding the what we assume President Trump will sign into law with the Epstein files. Is this going to be on the Justice Department website? What are you doing here? Over the next 30 days, as we.

[Pam Bondi]

Understand it, we will continue to follow the law with maximum transparency while protecting victims.

[David Pakman]

Glitch. When you say follow the law, Attorney.

[Donald Trump]

General, do you mean that you will provide all the files by 30 days?

[Pam Bondi]

We will follow the law. The law passed both chambers last evening. It has not yet been signed, but. But we will continue to follow the law.

[David Pakman]

You get it? They're going to follow the law, which they haven't been doing, and they're going to continue maximum transparency, which they haven't been providing. So now we're like, okay, now from a 1 to 10, my concern level has risen to a 3. This is if it were at 0 at the beginning of this press conference, which of course it wasn't. But theoretically, based on what she says, cool. Next question to Pam Bondi. The prior releases said no additional investigation is warranted. This is a great question to ask now because we are suspecting they will say, oh, there are ongoing investigations, so we can't release the files. She already told us previously no more arrests are coming. The whole thing is closed. She's asked what changed? And she says, well, we have new information. That's a new claim.

[Donald Trump]

You know, the DOJ statement earlier this.

[David Pakman]

Year saying that the files would not.

[Donald Trump]

Release mentioned the fact that the review.

[Scott Turner]

Of the documents and the evidence did.

[Donald Trump]

Not suggest that any additional investigation of.

[David Pakman]

Third parties was warranted.

[Donald Trump]

What changed since Then that you launched this investigation.

[Pam Bondi]

Information that has come for information. There's information that new information, additional information. And again, we will continue to follow the law to investigate any leads. If there are any victims, we encourage all victims to come forward and we will continue to provide maximum transparency under the law.

[David Pakman]

So now my concern is at a six. It's gone from zero to three to six. We were previously told, this is done, the investigation is done. There will be no more indictments. There will be no more prosecutions. We've got all the files. We've reviewed everything. It's done. We now got, thanks to the Oversight Committee, some additional emails. We got them. This is all part of what the DOJ has had for a long time. It's not new information for them. All of a sudden now Pam Bondi says, well, releasing the files, I don't know about that because we got new information now and now investigations are ongoing and. But wait a second, you didn't get anything new? New stuff was made public. It was new to us, but not to you. That doesn't really make sense. And then we blow the lid off of it. And this is the key line. She says, we now have a pending investigation. You do? What the, the issue with the new.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Information that you just indicated are, is the department seeking information perhaps from the Epstein Estate? Because Mr. Blanch did not have that information when he interviewed Ghislaine Maxwell. What new information? And would you limit the new investigation.

[Pam Bondi]

To just those named persons that the.

[Maria Bartiromo]

President talked about, or is this a broad open ended investigation?

[Pam Bondi]

I would refer to the Deputy Attorney General's post that he put out on X and we will check out his.

[David Pakman]

Nasty excretion on X.

[Pam Bondi]

We're not going to say anything else on that because now it is a pending investigation in the Southern District of New York.

[David Pakman]

And there it is. That is the key line. We now have a pending investigation in the Southern District of New York. I don't want to pat myself on the back because it was so obvious. I wasn't the only one who suspected they were going to come up with something like this. They are never going to stop coming up with ways to prevent the full and robust release of these files. Congressman Jim McGovern knows it. He posted, quote, this is the exact excuse Trump and his cronies at the DOJ will use to justify any potential refusal to comply with the Epstein Files Transparency Act. Release all the files now. The American people will not stand for anything less than complete transparency. It was also predictable 48 hours ago. The prediction was reinforced 24 hours ago and now they're doing it. Will we ever get the full Epstein files from this administration? I think the answer is probably not. Will the full Epstein files ultimately come out? Because they will be leaked, released by a future administration. That is where I would sort of be putting my. That's the basket I would be putting my eggs in at this point in time. In the midst of the Epstein fiasco, Donald Trump is losing control of Republicans, losing control of everything, quite frankly. And this is one of the worst nightmares that an egomaniacal, self centered narcissist like Trump, thirsty for power, would be terrified of. Let me explain what's going on. Trump's losing control of his party and it's happening in one of the funniest, messiest, kind of, most predictable ways possible. It is catalyzed by the Epstein files. This is something Trump's been terrified of probably since the 90s. And here's what happened. Tina Brown, the British journalist, had a great piece I'm drawing from here on her substack called why Trump Doesn't Stand a Chance of Killing the Epstein Story. I encourage you to check out her piece. And I believe that this really explains why Donald Trump suddenly started saying, oh, yeah, release the files earlier this week. What Tina Brown writes is that Trump personally tried to stop MAGA lawmakers from voting to release the full Epstein documents. He begged them, he leaned on them. He basically said, don't do it. He went to Lauren Boebert and they essentially said, no, thanks. They ignored him. They realize their political futures are hindered by doing what Trump wants in this particular case. And when Trump came to realize, I'm going to lose on this, they're going to vote to release the files. He does his gymnastics routine. When you see Trump, you don't at him and go, this guy can do gymnastics, but he can do them mentally. And suddenly he's for the release of the files. Of course I support it. Release them, vote on it, sure. Totally nothing. Why? Why wouldn't I want that? And of course, it doesn't exactly project strength to say, do the thing I spent months saying don't do because I was destined to lose. And the thing that Tina Brown hammers home in her article is that Trump never had a shot. She argues Trump was always going to lose this first because this whole pedophilia is a core MAGA adjutant idea, as she puts it. They live on this crap. They mainline it. You tell the MAGA base, hey, don't obsess over the Epstein documents. Good luck, because they're obsessed. Number two, footage, photos, videos. Trump and Epstein together over and over and over. The Christmas card, the notes, the emails referencing Trump. What can you do? It's. It's all out there. That infamous video of Trump and Epstein together, sort of evaluating young women. And Tina Brown says that these videos look more and more like the Zapruder film every day. And she's right. People freeze frame it like they're looking at a ballistics trajectory. Who are Trump and Epstein looking at together? It's a loop that Trump can't kill. And then as Trump is flailing, the slime is splashing everywhere. So you've got Michael Wolf, the guy who's built a career, really telling us how dark and twisted Trump world is. Turns out he was also emailing Epstein, and he now has started to be the subject of, call them, you know, more aggressive questions. There's Larry Summers emailing Epstein about raising a million bucks for his wife's project. You've got Sarah Ferguson doing the entire I abhor pedophilia speech in public and then sending Jeffrey Epstein a groveling apology in private. So the leaks are endless, and every name that keeps popping up is embarrassing to someone, and it makes the problem worse. Now, in the middle of all this, what about the survivors, which I've said, who I have said from the beginning, have been mostly ignored. They've been a very small part of this. Some of them have started to talk, and what they describe is horrifying. What Epstein allegedly did to them is horrifying. The dynamic that's described between Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, the humiliation, the jealousy, it's impossible to sanitize this thing. And that gets us to the kicker. Members of Congress, bipartisan, held a press conference with the survivors. Ro Khanna, Thomas Massie, Marjorie Taylor Greene. We saw it on Monday, Tuesday, when Marjorie Taylor Greene is standing there supporting a story you want buried. It's not loyalty, it's your base is leaving. Because she's not afraid anymore for Marjorie Taylor Greene to do what she did, she has to stop believing Trump can punish me. There's going to be a test of that. Marjorie Taylor Greene's reelection campaign next year will be a test. Can a former MAGA Republican in a MAGA district still win after Trump says, don't vote for her? I would support a primary challenge. And if she can win, this starts to become the beginning of the end. Because the whole Trump thing only works if everybody believes that he has the power to ruin them. Marjorie Taylor Greene, at least potentially believes he does not have the power to ruin her. This is how demagogues lose control. Not in an explosive, dramatic moment where like the palace burns down and the doors blow open. It's people start saying no and nothing happens to them. And they go, wow, I said no and I was fine. What happened to Liz Cheney doesn't happen to them. And then they go, I guess I can do it. And so that's where Trump is right now. The base wants the Epstein story, the party wants the Epstein story, The cameras want it. Survivors are speaking, the leaks are just flowing. Trump tried to kill it, Republicans ignored him and now he's pretending, no, of course I want the files out. He is losing control of his own people and he knows it. And if there is an even worse sign for Trump, it's the new polling data. Get a load of this. Trump finally got the one number he never wanted to see and it's devastating. We talked about this on the bonus show a little bit yesterday. There is a brand new PBS NPR Marist poll and it shows Democrats having their biggest lead for the upcoming midterms next year. In eight years, Not a few points, not within the margin of error. Democrats are plus 14, 55 to 41. That, if it holds, is a brutalization. Among independents, it's even worse for Republicans. Among independents, 61% say they will support Democrats and 28% say they will support Republicans. That is a 33 point gap among independent voters. And where it really starts to sting Trump is that this is the same margin Democrats had eight years ago in 2017, which turned into the 2018 blue wave, where 40 House seats were flipped while Trump sat in the Oval Office. You know, the throwing ketchup at the wall. And we're right back in that territory. Except Trump is even less popular right now than he was then. Trump's approval is down to 39 approved, 56 disapproved. That's at night, minus 17 net approval. That's down five points in the last two and a half months. And that's before you factor in the other humiliation, which is that Trump's own DOJ is saying the Comey grand jury never even saw the final indictment. This was the revenge fantasy Trump was holding out hope for and the revenge fantasy that he's been promising his base. And it's falling apart. Now. Here's the reason that Republicans should really be terrified. Americans now see the Republican Party as the close minded party. 60% of voters say Republicans shut down conversation rather than open it. Republicans have argued for a long time now. We are the party of conversations and debate and free speech and all of it. And now the country doesn't believe it. This is not how you win voters. Meanwhile, Trump is flailing and Democrats are piling up wins. Democrats got two governors elected by larger margins than Democrats have been previously elected. Virginia and New Jersey. We saw the New York City mayoral win. We saw California voters approve Gavin Newsom's Prop 50. Even Steve Bannon says or said on Election Day. Last Tuesday, previous Tuesday. The midterms start tonight and the warning signs are flashing. This matters for Trump's entire presidency. Look at the past data. 2010. Obama's Democrats lose 6. 62 House seats, 94. Clinton's Democrats lose 54 seats. 1874. We can go that back, that far back if you want. Ulysses, or as Trump calls him, Ulysses. Ulysses S. Grant's party loses 92 seats when these waves hit. They hit. They hit very, very hard, and they can bulldoze a party. And that's what Trump is facing. If Republicans lose the House, especially if they lose by a margin the likes of which it's looking, Trump loses control of the agenda. He loses the ability to pass any legislation. He can't define the political narrative. And importantly, Republicans will go, we don't even have a majority for Trump's last two years. Why are we sticking with them? It will break Trump and then the oversight hearings will start and the subpoenas and the investigations, and it'll signal to Republicans you're going to lose if you stick with the sky. It's a historical pattern that we've seen. Presidents who lose the House in a wave don't recover. Their second term is a holding pattern. It's dead. There's no mandate. So just imagine this is our North Star. Dems win big in 26. Independents turn hard against the Republicans. Approval keeps sliding for Trump and Trump's revenge tour, which he is planning. Trump. There's new reporting we'll talk about tomorrow. Trump wants revenge for Epstein stuff. He wants revenge for what's going on. He won't be able to do it. It will be the collapse that Trump feared. We have to make it happen. 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You can get all of the details and read about how to participate at David pakman.com/fundraiser. But the long and short of it is you sign up for a monthly membership this month, we'll donate that first payment to Feeding America. You sign up for a yearly membership, we'll donate the yearly payment to the Feeding America charity. You sign up on Substack. We're going to do the exact same thing. So check it out and you can sign up@join pacman.com we are now seeing the games they are going to play about the Epstein files. We started to probe and hypothesize yesterday about the direction that this might go and now we are starting to see it hook, line and sinker. They aren't just going to give us the files. They're not going to do it. And we're going to put together the pieces as we look here to try to figure out what is it they are going to try to do. Now here is Congressman James Colmer, a Republican who starts with, you know, there might not be an Epstein list. What was it? Didn't everybody just vote? And there is a lot of heavy lifting being done by the word list here. He's playing semantic games but what he's doing is very dangerous. Take a listen.

[James Comer]

If there's no Epstein list and we want to find out if there were people that were violating the law and who they were, we'll have to construct our own. If there's not an Epstein list floating around in the, in the Department of Justice, maybe putting, following the money we can construct.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Well, it's interesting the mainstream media was going wall to wall with Epstein while you all were reopening government. I was watching, you know, the vote. You're all over there voting to reopen government and it's wall to wall Epstein on CNN because some files were released. We'll see if they keep that up now that it's sort of brought.

[David Pakman]

Yeah, we might. James Comer goes, we might have to construct the Epstein list from the evidence, of course, but it might just be like, hey, we're the Republicans and we're going to make the list and then give it to you and everybody will accept that this is the list. Another segment that really shows us the direction they're going and then I'm going to give you kind of my, my deeper thoughts on this. Bartiromo asks Are we going to see the client list? And Comer goes, I don't think there's a list at this stage of the game. It's almost December. I don't think there's a list.

[Donald Trump]

Records.

[James Comer]

We'll do like we did in the Biden investigation. We'll be able to follow the money, we'll be able to identify different LLC and different corporations to see where now.

[David Pakman]

I'm so sorry to interrupt already. He goes, we're going to do it like we did it in the Biden investigation. Well, then it's not going to work. The Biden investigation was one of the most humiliating and disastrous dead end fiascos where they brought in people like, I'm trying to remember all of the various characters. There was obviously, there was the blind computer repair man, but there was Tony Bobulinski. There were a handful of supposed blockbuster witnesses that were going to just blow the roof off of the entire thing. And we, we ultimately know what happened. So when I hear him say, we're going to do this like the Biden probe, you know, it's not going to be good.

[James Comer]

Money was coming from and where it was going.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Are we going to see the client list?

[James Comer]

If, you know, I don't think there's an actual Epstein list, but if we're able to follow the money, maybe we can construct a list.

[David Pakman]

I say, all right, Maria Bartiromo. I gotcha. Gotcha, James. So they are preparing to manufacture an Epstein list from scratch. It won't be done through discovery, it won't be done through investigation. It will be narrative construction. And. And he says, we will have to construct our own. Those are his words. Now there is some technical sense where he. There's a benign technical sense to what he might be saying. Where we would say, okay, that's not so bad. And it would be this. It's very misleading. Imagine that I give you 100 pieces of paper. Each one is an email from an Epstein client. In a technical sense, that's not a list. It's 100 documents. And if I go through them one by one and I go, okay, Joe Schmo is in document number one. And I write it down. Now it's. Now it's Joe Schmay and his number two. I'm constructing a list. And it's not literally a list that I've been handed. It's just a stack of communications that's like the most benign technical explanation of all of this. But we already know that we are way beyond that based on everything we've seen. So far. And when he says we might have to construct this, we should be very, very afraid. One more clip here where, as always, Maria Bartiromo tries to wrap this into the Mar A Lago raid and the Jan6 riots and Russia collusion. And is this all part of the same hoax? I don't even know what she means by this question, but let's see if we can figure it out.

[Maria Bartiromo]

You know, I mean, all of this is part of an overall fabric that they think the DOJ is trying to put together of conspiracy, beginning with Russia collusion, going into the impeachments, going into the Hunter Biden laptop, the Mar A Lago raid. Is January 6th part of that? Were they using January 6to blow up this whole idea that Trump was an insurrectionist as a way to shut down speech and shut down any questions about the 2020 election?

[David Pakman]

Right.

[James Comer]

You know, January 6th was. It was a terrible day. But what we've learned is Pelosi didn't do her job. And what we learned is the federal government had a lot bigger role that day than we realized. They denied having any agents on the ground, and now it turns out there were dozens and dozens of agents. And we've all seen the videos.

[Maria Bartiromo]

In plain clothes.

[James Comer]

In plain clothes and in Trump. Why lie about it? If there was nothing nefarious, why be dishonest about it? And I wonder if the January 6th committee members knew. Did Adam Schiff. No. Did Jamie Raskin? Who's the most dishonest?

[David Pakman]

There you go. So what they are now doing is the real conspiracy. It's not to prevent the release of the Epstein files, even though I'm telling you on national tv, I don't know that there is a list and we're going to have to construct one from, from the, from scratch. The real conspiracy is the Jan6Committee. The riots, there were agents. It was entrapment. It was all stuff for which we have no evidence. How about we get the damn Epstein files and hopefully now with the votes out of the way, we are closer to that. Who the hell knows? Another guest on Fox News. Another abortive disaster. This is Scott Turner, the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development under Donald Trump. He went on Fox News and was asked by Maria Bartiromo what is actually a really good question. You know, sometimes the simplest questions are the best. When these right wingers go, there's millions of illegals voting, the obvious question is, yeah, how do they register to vote? And if they don't, how are millions going and giving the name of a citizen? And Then the citizens aren't showing up and being told, no, you were already here, someone gave your name. They never have an explanation. Maria Bartiromo, actually, I don't know that I'd call it a good job. But she stumbles across a good question here, which is he, Scott Turner is talking about how undocumented immigrants are getting mortgages in the United States. And Maria Bartiromo asks a great question. How does an undocumented immigrant get a mortgage? Here is his answer.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Your department is also probing how illegal immigrants have put a strain on the housing market. What can you tell us? You signed a memorandum with the DHA as to end wasteful misappropriation of taxpayer money.

[Scott Turner]

Absolutely.

[Maria Bartiromo]

For, quote, illegal alien exploitation of housing programs. You're also working with the Federal Housing Administration to crack down on government backed mortgages for illegals. How do they get a mortgage? If you're.

[David Pakman]

Great question, Maria. Let's hear his answer.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Actually illegal in the country.

[David Pakman]

Now, before he says anything, how many of you think he's going to answer the question and tell us how undocumented immigrants get a mortgage and how many don't?

[Scott Turner]

Well, Marie, you know, during the Biden administration there were over 12 million illegal aliens that came over the border, straining our housing supply and making the costs go up. And so we work with Secretary Noem at dhs, as you alluded to, to make sure that only American citizens are living in HUD funded housing. We also took away FHA backed mortgages from illegal aliens during the Biden administration. Administration. They turned a blind eye. But we're going to keep the law to make sure that these mortgages, which are backed by the taxpayer, go only to the American people. And lastly, we are mandating that every public housing authority give us a comprehensive account who's living in every unit.

[David Pakman]

So he said a lot there, but he didn't answer the question how do undocumented immigrants get a mortgage? Now let me give you the real answer. It's very similar to how do undocumented noncitizens vote in the United States? The answer is they don't. Undocumented immigrants can't get a federally backed mortgage. They can't access Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. Banks require legal identification. Mortgage applications include a requirement for a Social Security number. They have citizenship and residency questions and checks. Undocumented immigrants don't qualify for the standard mortgage system. There is no program that allows undocumented immigrants to get a mortgage. Even private mortgages require ID and proof of residency. And while theoretically you could give on a private Mortgage an ID and a proof of residency without proving citizenship. Private mortgages are usually not for people who are in relatively precarious financial circumstances, as are overwhelmingly undocumented migrants. Now, there are banks that will give you something called an ITIN loan. And ITIN is a Taxpayer Identification Number. You can be in the United States undocumented and request such a number. But those loans are legal. They're not mortgages. They're legal, regulated. They require you to file a tax return and proof of income. Interest rates are very high. People aren't using them to buy houses or like a mortgage. So this is just completely and totally made up out of thin air, which is their favorite. How are undocumented immigrants getting mortgages? Well, Maria, 12 million people came here last year illegally. Okay, and how are they getting mortgages? Well, Maria, we had a problem under Biden. Okay, and how do undocumented immigrants get mortgages? We're going to get a list of everybody living in subsidized housing. Okay. And how. They don't have an answer because there is no answer. One more clip from this interview. Here are a couple more clips. Here is Scott Turner lying about the circumstances when Donald Trump took over conversation.

[Maria Bartiromo]

Tell us how you are tackling what people are calling an affordability crisis in a housing crisis.

[Scott Turner]

Well, thank you, Maria. It's good to be with you. Well, first, you know, when we came into this administration, our fiscal house was not in order. Inflation was at an all time high, Interest rate rates were high, mortgage rates were high. And so the first thing we've been doing at HUD is tackling the regulatory environment.

[David Pakman]

Okay, a lot of lies there. When Trump came in in January, inflation was 2.8%, 2.8%, not a record high. Since June of 2023, inflation has bounced between 2 and a half and 3%. Most of that time, Joe Biden was President, the last 10 months, Trump was president. There was no record high inflation when Trump came in. With regard to everything else he's saying, you know, mortgage rates are down, interest rates are down, interest rates are down a little bit. And to a great degree, that's because of the Treasury's federal funds rate decisions. It has nothing to do with Trump. Although Trump has been begging, begging, begging, begging Jerome Powell to lower rates more. They just lie. There's no pushback. It's not journalism, it's propaganda. Finally, here is HUD Secretary Scott Turner saying, we don't want homeless people out on the street. Well, they have no homes. Where do you expect them to go?

[Scott Turner]

No one wants homelessness on their streets. We definitely don't want homeless on the street, but because we care, it's compassionate common sense to use the American taxpayer dollar, not just a warehouse homelessness, but also to treat them so they can live a life of self sustainability.

[Donald Trump]

And that's.

[David Pakman]

Listen, if that was something that this administration cared about, they wouldn't have cut housing assistance by more than $8 billion. They've pushed to eliminate the housing trust fund. They've tried to/section8. They've blocked housing vouchers for mixed status families where you've got US citizen children but the parents are not citizens. They've gutted fair housing rules that prevent segregation. And homelessness went up every year during Trump's presidency before the pandemic. So you can't blame the pandemic on it. And now Scott Turner wants us to believe this is the party of compassion. These people are truly pathetic. Maria Bartiromo hosts them all. We looked at James Colmer, now we look at Scott Turner and sadly, there are people falling for this crap. That's truly the tragedy here. A pending Supreme Court case could strip our fourth Amendment rights and allow immigration agents to come into our homes for any reason. No probable cause needed. All while Republicans try to twist things so that you think this is all great for America. This should be the biggest story in the US Right now. But it's almost impossible to keep up with the millions of moves that Trump is making every single day. That's why Ground News exists. Ground News is an app and website that exposes the blind spots and spin before it takes control of our opinions. Ground News is the smarter, more reliable way to stay informed when MAGA is banking on us getting distracted. I'm partnering up with Ground News to give you 40% off the same vantage plan that I use. So you'll pay only five bucks a month for all of their premium features. Just go to Ground News, slash Pacman or use the code Pacman in the app. When you sign up, the link is in the description or scan the QR code. All right, let's talk about something that nobody in right wing media wants to touch, but we all can see it with our eyes. Donald Trump melts down when challenged by a woman. And I'm going to play a new montage for you here. A dozen or more clips of Trump insulting, berating, demeaning, attacking female reporters. It's hard not to ask the obvious question. Is Trump like this because his dad didn't love him or his mom didn't love him? Oh my God, David, that's so harsh. Ok, listen. It's a little bit tongue in cheek, but this is the sort of resentment towards having his authority challenged by women that has to have some kind of root in his upbringing. And every time Trump says, no one respects women more than me, he proves the opposite. So this is a montage from Ron Philipkowski. Watch it for yourself. And it's the same pattern over and over again. A woman asks a normal, serious question. Trump gets defensive. He. He interrupts. He insults intelligence, questions her motives and escalates into rage. Insults and more. Remember a lot of these incidents. Some of these are recent. Some of them are longer ago.

[Donald Trump]

Will you let me finish my statement? You are the worst. You're with Bloomberg, right? You are the worst. I don't know why they even have you.

[David Pakman]

That's the infamous quiet piggy from a few days ago.

[Donald Trump]

You say that, darling, that's fake news.

[David Pakman]

Why would the Department of Defense be quiet? Listen.

[Donald Trump]

You don't listen. You never listen. That's why you're second grade. What he did. Well, you know that much about crypto, you know nothing about. You know nothing about nothing. You fake news, but let me do it now. It's not the question that I mind. It's your attitude. I think you are a terrible reporter. It's the way you ask these questions. You start off with a man who's highly respected, asking him a horrible, insubordinate and just a terrible question. And you could even ask that same exact question nicely. You're all psyched. Somebody psychs you over at abc, you're going to psych it. You're a terrible person and a terrible reporter. Oh, fake news. Cnn.

[David Pakman]

I'll hold it.

[Donald Trump]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Here we go. When you hear this question.

[Pam Bondi]

Thank you, sir.

[Donald Trump]

You should really say how great.

[Pam Bondi]

And the same to you, Mr. President.

[Donald Trump]

Who are you with?

[Pam Bondi]

I'm with ABC News, sir.

[James Comer]

You're with who?

[Pam Bondi]

ABC News, sir.

[Donald Trump]

Fake News. Abc, Fake News. One of the worst. One of the worst in the business.

[Maria Bartiromo]

But I'll answer White House account to have it go out on.

[Donald Trump]

Give me a break. It was just somebody did it in fun. It's fine. Have to have a little fun, don't you? Who are you with? Politico. Dasha Burns, sir. Dasha? Politico. Politico has gone bad. They've been so wrong about everything. Politico. No, no. Politico has been so wrong about everything. Let's get somebody else to ask some questions. You mind? Is that all right?

[Pam Bondi]

As a personal gift to You.

[Donald Trump]

Why not leave it behind your ABC fake news, Right.

[Pam Bondi]

Why not?

[Scott Turner]

Only.

[Donald Trump]

Only abc. Well, a few of you would let me tell you, you should be embarrassed asking that question.

[David Pakman]

Question.

[Donald Trump]

They're giving us a free jet. But he knew nothing about it, and we can leave it at that. You don't have to embarrass our guests by asking a question like that. Well, I haven't heard that. You're telling me who you with? Who are you with? Fake news. You fake news.

[Scott Turner]

What a.

[Donald Trump]

What a. NBC's gone down the tubes along with most of the rest. I think the license should be taken away from ABC because your news is so fake.

[David Pakman]

All right, listen, this goes on and on and on. I'm not going to play another two minutes of this. You get the point, okay? You get the point. When men ask Trump confrontational questions, he gets snippy, but he doesn't implode. When it's a woman, he flips a switch and he goes from irritated to red face toddler mode in seconds. Now, I am not a psychologist. I don't think you need to be a psychologist to see something is happening here. Trump grew up with a father who showed no warmth, demanded obedience, rewarded cruelty. And Trump learned the way to feel strong is to dominate people, preferably someone he thinks he can get away with attacking. And female reporters, especially young female reporters, terrify him because they trigger in him something he can't hide. They're not impressed. They're not intimidated. They're not playing the submissive role he believes they should be playing and that he expects them to play. And so he snaps and he says, you're stupid, you're nasty. It's fake news. Terrible person. You're a horrible reporter. And he talks over them often like they don't exist. He'll lash out the moment he feels inadequate, which is basically all the time. And so I think that there's a bigger point here. This really isn't just misogyny. It's insecurity. It is fear. It's this lifelong wound that Trump is still bleeding from. And we're all suffering. I mean, listen, if you look at why are we? You might say, well, what are the political implications? So he's mean to female reporters, but maybe his tax plan is good. Okay? The way it manifests in substantive way is that he is impressed by dictators, probably because of something very integral to who he is in his upbringing. He's not impressed. He's certainly not impressed by the female leaders of Democratic nations that we know. He doesn't seem impressed by the leaders, male leaders of democratic nations either. You know, we're, we're not particularly close to Canada anymore. He doesn't seem particularly impressed by the French president, although I think, you know, he sees the French president maybe as better looking and, and in better shape, which is intimidating to Trump, but that's a reason why he doesn't like it. What Trump really loves is those who rule with an iron fist. And it seems to be part of the same complex here. A grown man who was loved and supported as a child just doesn't react to women this way. Look at former President Barack Obama, who we know about his upbringing. A confident man doesn't implode in and insult women because he's asked a basic policy question. And a stable man would never need to humiliate women to feel big himself. So it might sound like a joke. Did Trump's daddy not love him enough? It's really not a joke, and it is having geopolitical consequences. Marjorie Taylor Greene this week really hit Donald Trump where it hurts. And we now see Trump and MAGA ripping apart. It's over the Epstein files. It's over a number of different things. This is a clip we didn't play earlier in the week. Here is Marjorie Taylor Greene accusing Trump of destroying the movement. This is more than just Marjorie and Donald's relationship. This is about the movement.

[Pam Bondi]

Councilman Green, you raise the question of whether or not the Justice Department will actually release these files. Do you, you take the president at his word when he says he's going to sign this bill, and do you have confidence that these files will actually be released? I only take people's actions seriously. No longer words. And what do you think the President's action? And I'll, I'll tell you because I'm, I wasn't a Johnny come lately to the MAGA train. I was day one, 2015. And there's a big difference in those Americans and, and those that decided to support President Trump later on. And I'll tell you right now, this has been one of the most destructive things to MAGA is watching the man that we supported early on three elections for people that stood hours, slept in their cars to go to rallies.

[David Pakman]

Have.

[Pam Bondi]

Fought for truth and transparency and, and to hold what we consider a corrupt government accountable. Watching this actually turn into a fight has ripped MAGA apart. And the only thing that will speak to the powerful, courageous women behind me is when I action is actually taken to release these files. And the American people won't tolerate any other bullshit. That's where we are today.

[David Pakman]

The catalyst for this with Marjorie Taylor Greene is because of the Epstein files. There's no doubt about that. That was the kind of thing that, that set all of this off. But there are reasons this matters, which go way beyond the Epstein files. This is really one of the first times that someone from inside of maga, deep inside of maga, I mean, like you said, she was an early MAGA supporter, is attacking Trump in a way that actually hits a nerve. Policy doesn't really bother him. Being called incompetent might bother him. Criminal indictments don't seem to bother him. The whole Epstein thing is like a soft spot. It's the storyline where Trump gets shaky and defensive and frantic because he knows it's radioactive. And now you have one of the loudest MAGA celebrities saying Trump is tearing the movement apart to keep the documents sealed. Think about that. She, Marjorie Taylor Greene is admitting the whole project, the MAGA project, is crumbling down to its core. Not because the Democrats are the deep state or whatever imaginary conspiracy theory they're yelling about this week, but because Trump is terrified of what these files might have. These people have spent years pretending that they will expose the elites, they will take down predators, they will protect kids, all of that crap. But Trump is. Now, he's given up the fight, but what set him and Marjorie Taylor Greene at odds is that he was fighting to keep the files sealed. And Marjorie Taylor Greene has been saying out loud, why would you do that? That is not what this movement supposedly was about. This has the potential to be the type of fracture that doesn't heal. You've got a movement built around loyalty, and suddenly one of its major figures is saying, I'm no longer loyal. And it's turning that back on Donald Trump and is saying, you are the one destroy, destroying the movement. The timing isn't great for Trump because his polls are falling, the administration's imploding allies are panicking, and now he's taking fire from inside the bunker. So my expectation, I don't know what's going to happen now with the votes on the. On Epstein done, If Marjorie Taylor Greene keeps talking like this, Trump will have to decide, does he continue attacking her the way he started to and make the Civil War even worse? Does he ignore her to some degree? Does he say, no, we're on the same page, we're both all about the Epstein files, but is there credibility left? Is that if that's what Trump tried to do? So as we look back over the last decade, MAGA has survived scandals. They have, they listen. They've survived indictments and convictions. They've survived coup attempts, four years of public humiliation. They've never really had an internal revolt over something the base seems to care about now, the reasons they care about it. Ok, but this, the Epstein files, seems unspeakable for the MAGA propaganda machine. I think Marjorie Taylor Greene knows it's not going away. She lit a match. Trump is trying to put it out by saying, yes, I'm for releasing the files too, but I don't know that this ends here. Let me know what you think. What is the future of this intra maga civil war? Every time you Google your name, you will probably find dozens of sites that expose your personal information. This can include phone number, home address, family details. It's just sitting there waiting to be scraped or abused. Incogni is a privacy service. They go after these sites on your behalf. They contact the data brokers. They demand your data be removed, which the brokers are legally required to do. Incogni will automatically remove your information from hundreds of the biggest and most notorious data broker sites. But you're not just limited to those. You can use Incogni's custom removal. If you find your info on a website outside of Incogni's default list, team at Incogni will work to get that information removed. This is how you protect yourself and your family from identity theft, financial scams, harassment, even AI powered profiling by ad companies. And Incogni's data removal process is the only one verified independently by Deloitte. This gives them a unique level of credibility. Try Incogni risk free and get 60% off. When you go to incogni.com/pacman and use the code PACMAN. The link is in the description. Donald Trump ranted and raved incoherently at some points, stunning his crowd into complete and total silence. I'm sort of getting the sense that he can't really do it anymore. Like, I don't think Trump thinks it's going to go this badly when he shows up for these speeches. Trump talking about other people's mental problems. I know. Speaking about Fed Chairman Jerome Powell saying he's got mental problems. There's something wrong with the guy. Let me tell you a little bit more about that in a moment though, because it says a lot about the truth of the economy versus Trump's claims about the economy. I'll explain. Give me one second. Let's, let's listen.

[Donald Trump]

Mortgage rates are down despite the Fed. I mean, Scott, you got to work on this guy. He's got some real mental problems. No, he's. Something wrong with him. It's just sweet. I'll be honest, I'd love to fire his ass. He should be fine. Guy's grossly incompetent and he should be sued for spending $4 billion to build a little building. I'm building a ballroom. That's going to cost a tiny fraction of that and it's bigger than the whole thing put together. You got to work on him, Scott. The only thing Scott's blowing it on is the Fed. Because the Fed, the rates are too high, Scott. And if you don't get it fixed fast, I'm going to fire your ass.

[David Pakman]

Okay, listen, we're all joking, but Trump says Jerome Powell has a mental problem because he won't lower interest rates. It's really important for people to understand this. Trump is claiming that the economy is awesome while demanding something of the Fed that you would only do if the economy were not awesome. What do I mean by that? Trump is asking for federal funds rate reductions one after another after another. At one point, he said he wants the federal funds rate down three whole points. Four whole points. You don't do that unless you're worried the economy needs rescuing. And so Trump, on the one hand says everything is phenomenal since he came in, and on the other hand says that it's indicative, indicative of a mental problem that Jerome Powell hasn't lowered the federal funds rate the way that Donald Trump has been demanding. It's so good out there that Trump needs emergency rate cuts. Give me a break. Trump talking about the Board of Peace chaired by Donald Trump. Another one of these things where he doesn't have to be doing any of this. But it's hard to find better people than Trump to do things. And the crowd is like, what the hell?

[Donald Trump]

Have any problems? But right now it's looking very good. And endorsed. They endorse the United nations, what's called the Board of Peace, chaired by a person called Donald J. Trump. I accepted the chairmanship. They asked me to be chairman. That's what I needed is just a little more work. But it's a great honor. That'll be the greatest sport ever assembled. Where do you see this board? This board will blow every board away. And I believe we're going to be lucky enough to have the crown prince be a very distinguished member of the board. But.

[David Pakman]

And there it is. The glazing of the dictatorial human rights denying crown prince of Saudi Arabia the honored guest for Trump. This was the US Saudi Investment Forum. These understand these events are completely fabricated. Every event is fabricated in a sense. But what I mean is this is all a show. So Donald Trump can just sort of profess his undying devotion to yet another autocrat. This time it's Mohammed bin Salman Trump lying and saying we have more jobs than ever in the United States. We learned from the Biden administration you can't just tell people everything's awesome if they don't feel it, they're not going to believe.

[Donald Trump]

Erica. And you know, I view it differently. I used to view it as it's great, great, great, the stock goes up. I view it, everything is job, jobs now because I don't care. I care about jobs. And we have more jobs. It was just announced we have more jobs right now than we've ever had in the history of our country. Those are big numbers. You know, it's like crazy. It's, it's a great, just a great stat. More jobs today than we've ever had in the history of our country and.

[David Pakman]

Happens not to be true. And in fact, the number of layoffs happening, over a million people have been laid off this year. It's not a great jobs record at this point in time. It's ok, but Trump promised us it would be awesome. Trump promised us it would be growth. Trump promised us it would be the, the apple of the world's eye or, you know, whatever, but it's just not happening. Trump attacking WOKE in a way that to me doesn't really sound like free speech. You tell me and you have to.

[Donald Trump]

Do all woke up, you'll be back into the woke business. We don't have WOKE anymore in this country. It's virtually illegal. But you have a couple of woksters and we don't want to do that.

[David Pakman]

Woke is virtually illegal. That certainly sounds like a government restriction on speech to me. It certainly sounds like governments telling private businesses what they can and can't do. I thought they were the party of free speech. Well, even Americans overall don't believe that anymore. Based on the polling we looked at earlier. Trump playing the Walmart game. I won't even explain it to you. I know most of my audience at this point knows what the Walmart game is.

[Donald Trump]

Core inflation is now below 2.7%. It was at numbers that nobody had ever seen before with them. Walmart just announced that the cost of their standard Thanksgiving meal is reduced by 25% this year from last year. So they make. Look, the Democrats, I know some of you are probably liberal Democrats. I don't know about in your country. I don't know if you know that word liberal. The word liberal doesn't exist, but they have a new word now. You can't use liberal. You have to use the word.

[David Pakman]

Okay, the Walmart game. Walmart cut a bunch of items from its Thanksgiving meal package and replaced a bunch of items with cheaper store brand products. That's why the price came down 25%. It's sort of like if I say to you, hey, the price of Skittles came down and I show you one of the tiny little, you know, like 90 calorie or whatever, Skittles things and you would go, wait a second, the price came down, but it's fewer Skittles. Right? That's exactly what Walmart did. And I have to say, what a big win for the Walmart marketing team because while it is not true that the Walmart Thanksgiving meal is actually less expensive, like it's less, it costs less, but it has less stuff and lower quality stuff. They have Trump out there and everybody around Trump repeating over and over again, the Walmart Thanksgiving meal, it's cheap. Customers go, they buy it. It actually is based completely on deception. And then finally, Trump really sucking up to the Saudi Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, referring to him as the most distinguished gentleman and my friend. He's my friend all over the world.

[Donald Trump]

But now we have people that are respected at levels that we've never seen before. So I just want to tell you that this is a group that I respect. I read every single name of every single person sitting in each and every seat. And I know either know you or I know of you, this is an amazing group of people and it really is headed by that gentleman sitting right smack center with two seats in between him. He wants plenty of room and he's going to be the king of Saudi Arabia right now. He's the most distinguished gentleman. He's my friend.

[David Pakman]

He's my friend.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you very much for what you've done for us and we will always be with you. Thank you, Mohammed. I appreciate it. Thank you, everybody. Thank you very much. Thank you.

[David Pakman]

The President of the United States visibly gushing over one of the worst human rights denying autocrats in 2025 around the world. That is the state of the United States as we approach the end of 2025. Sad, sad state of affairs. We've got to do something about it. Caroline Levitt gave what might be the dumbest interview I've ever seen her give. She was interviewed by a woman with a British Accent, which I know might make you think Caroline sounds smarter during this interview, but she doesn't. I never thought Caroline would say this sort of stuff, but she is still going with the Epstein thing is a hoax. Now, I know we've talked about this before. What is the hoax? Is the hoax that Trump did anything wrong? Is the hoax that Trump covered it up? Is the hoax that Epstein didn't really do anything? What do you mean by it's a hoax? Let's see if Caroline tells us the.

[Pam Bondi]

Latest big drama for them is the Epstein the latest on the Epstein stuff. And you rebutted that immediately, saying it's another hoax. How is that playing out? And do you think that it's going to take a lot of your time going forward? Well, we certainly hope not, because I think the president is wanting very much to focus on the issues that he was elected to solve, like affordability and rising prices.

[David Pakman]

And none of which he's solving, by the way.

[Pam Bondi]

You know our border, we're continuing to do great work there. The trade deals again, everything that's going on overseas, and that is what he's focused on. But if you look at how this Epstein story sort of evolved over the past week, it's classic Washington hoax. Yes, the latest.

[David Pakman]

And what exactly does that mean? Which is they, they only when pressed will they say something like, no, the hoax is the timing used to take attention off of Trump's victories and the failures of Democrats who shut down the government. But so hold on, when you say hoax, do you just mean that it's a distraction? Did Jeffrey Epstein not do the things he's accused of doing? Are the people mentioned in the emails and the files and the documents? Is it all planned decades in advance so that it could be unleashed in November of 2025? What do you mean it's a hoax? And then when you push them, they just go, now it's like it's a hoax that this is even a story. Really? Wow. Levitt is willing to say very dishonest things while claiming to be a child of Jesus with the big cross and the whole religious Persona. The host asks Caroline Levitt about Trump spraying the Syrian president with perfume. And correct me if I'm wrong, I think Caroline Levitt says, oh, this happens all the time. Trump sprays everybody.

[Pam Bondi]

The president went, the Syrian president came in and President Trump sprayed perfume all over him. And I just wondered, like, was, did he smell? No, let me tell you, that happens all the time, not just with the Syrian president, but I've seen it with other foreign Leaders. I've seen it with members of our Cabinet myself. He sprays cologne and a perfume. Yes. He's just showing off his wonderful scents. He's very generous.

[David Pakman]

Guys, this is. This is just strange. This is, to quote George W. Bush, this is some really weird shit. And now we are pretending that it's normal that the President of the United States walks around the White House spraying people with perfume. We're supposed to pretend that that's normal. Hmm. And then, finally, this was a really weird way to ask the question. I don't know how many of you know this. I, quite frankly, couldn't care less about Caroline Levitt's personal life beyond whether it is a contradiction to her publicly stated beliefs that I think is relevant. But her husband is a lot older than her, and the host asks about it, but kind of in a really weird way.

[Pam Bondi]

Tell us about your husband. Sure. And how you met, and also the fact He's, I think, 32 years older than you, which is unusual, but.

[David Pakman]

It is.

[Pam Bondi]

But you're a very mature person. Yeah, probably. Could you not find boys your own age who are as mature? Honestly, no.

[David Pakman]

Yeah. Caroline Levitt just couldn't find boys as mature as her, and that's how she ended up with a guy 32 years older than her. Honestly, I don't care who she's married to. My only problem is, is her spouse bothered by how she is? The public face of dishonesty could. I don't care if the guy is 18 or 88. I don't care if the guy's Christian, atheist, Muslim, Jewish. I don't care if it's a guy. I don't care if it's a woman. Are they humiliated by being married to one of the most brazenly and pathetically dishonest purveyors of government propaganda that there has been for a long time? I would be embarrassed. I'll admit that we have a phenomenal bonus show for you today. Make sure you've liked today's podcast or rated it on Spotify and Apple. Make sure you've signed up@join pacman.com. make sure you've just hit the subscribe button on YouTube as we push to 3.5 million subscribers. I will see you on the bonus show, and then we will be back tomorrow.